RedHanded - Delphi Update: Odinism & Accusations of Ritual Sacrifice

Episode Date: September 22, 2023

This week, Richard Allen’s defence team dropped a 136-page document challenging the warrant that police used to search his house.But it’s not as boring as it sounds – because the bulk of this filing consists of claims that Abby and Libby were in fact killed by an Odinite, white-suprematist cult. And in doing so the defence team has revealed a lot of new information regarding the crime scene.In this update, Suruthi digs into what the hell is going on.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi guys, it's Saruti.

And it is just me today. Because Hannah's on holiday. And this episode, this bonus episode, was a very last minute decision. So yes, it feels very weird talking to myself being sat in the studio all alone, but let's do it. Because what I've got to talk to you about today is very, very worth it. It's been almost a year now since we released our two-parter on the Delphi case and the arrest of Richard Allen, five years after the bodies of 13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German were found in the woods near the Monon High Bridge in Carroll County, Indiana. The arrest of Allen, a longtime resident who worked at the local CVS in the small town of Delphi, was a total shock.

No one outside of law enforcement had him on their radar at all. I had a long list of suspects when I started writing that two-parter and when the police dropped his name, no matter how many times I control F'd my pages and pages and pages of notes, there was no mention of Alan anywhere before his arrest last year. Now, we aren't going to go back over the entire case here today. If you want a reminder, please go back and listen to episodes 272 and 273 for the full rundown. This bonus episode is an update based on a 136-page document that was released by Alan's defence team this week. After reading said document and picking my jaw up off the floor,

I realised we had to get something out ASAP, which is why I'm here, which is why I'm alone, and which is why I might sound a bit frantic, because I've had a lot of coffee in writing this up in the space of a day. But let's get to it. Now, I said at the start that this was going to be very much worth your time. And I'm not kidding. Because just to set the tone about this document that was released by Richard Allen's defence team, let me just tell you the very first

line of this mammoth filing. And this is a direct quote. Members of a pagan Norse religion called Odinism, hijacked by white nationalists, ritually sacrificed Abigail Williams and Liberty German. Yes, you heard that right. Richard Allen and his defence are taking this case, that was already packed full of twists and turns, seeming red herrings, weird suspects and shady characters galore into a whole other galaxy of crazy. So firstly let's talk about what this document is. And to be clear there's what the defence claim this document is and then there is what it actually is. The defence say that this document is a franks motion which is a legal document given to the judge that sets forth the defendant's request for a hearing and the specific

challenges that the defendant has. So essentially it's a document to request a hearing to challenge the probable cause that was used to grant a search warrant after a search has been conducted. So it's basically somebody saying here is a document full of all of my issues with why that search warrant was granted and why that search was allowed to be conducted and I want to challenge that in a hearing and if you are successful in doing that basically you can get everything that was found using that search warrant made inadmissible in court. So Richard Allen's defense is saying that there was not enough probable cause for the police to have

searched his house. The house where the police say they found a gun that belonged to Richard Allen that was forensically matched to a bullet found at the scene. And also they are going to have found other things because once once again, we said this in the two-parter we did last year, the probable cause affidavit is not the entirety of the prosecution or the police's case. It's going to be just enough to show that they have a solid case. We do not know what else the police found at the house or what else they have on Richard Allen. And I suspect probably what they found at Richard Allen's house might be quite damning. So this document is an attempt to get that evidence thrown out before trial.

But this document and the claims in it also serve another purpose. Like I said, there's what the defence say this document is, and then what it also is in a backhanded kind of way. Because other than trying to get the evidence from Richard Allen's house thrown out, the defence also want to use this 136 page document to speak to the public and the press. Because if you remember, we mentioned this in our last Delphi update back in December last year, there is currently a gag order in place. So the defence cannot speak to the press. So they have absolutely used this document as a way to get some attention on their case and start to influence public opinion. And honestly, I'm shocked. I am shocked when this document first came out it was sort of like

causing a big flurry in the media everyone started talking about it podcasters started dropping episodes left right and center and I wanted to take my time read it think about what it actually said what evidence they actually have for the things they're saying before I wrote this script and we got this episode recorded I am shocked to see the number of people on the internet who now seem to think that what the defense is saying is true and that Richard Allen may not actually be guilty. But I'm jumping ahead. Let's continue to go through what we've got here and we'll come back to that. And you guys can make up your own mind but I would caution you against getting swept up in essentially what just seems like a massive satanic panic situation and I'm

shocked that in 2023 there are still people that are willing to listen to this but like I said jumping ahead. So as you can tell from line one of this document, the defence has definitely gone with a route of allegations that would have made this document a must read and also something that the press would obsess over because odinous, white supremacist, satanic, whatever, ritualistic, cult killing, it's all headline grabbing. It's going to get the listens in. It's going to get the views in. So it's a big win there the defense have got what they wanted everybody is talking about this and finally the other reason that this document was released other than getting the evidence thrown out being able to speak to the press and the public is that since he's been in prison

richard allen has allegedly confessed to the murders of Abby and Libby on five occasions, including during taped phone calls to his mum and his wife. So the defence really needed some way to address that massive issue for them. Because honestly, when I heard that he had confessed five times, you know, as a team, we were talking about it and like, when's the trial going to be? I thought there might not even be a trial, guys. If he has confessed five times, we might be looking at a guilty plea, in which case we'll just go straight to sentencing. The defence has clearly changed its mind on that and changed Richard Allen's mind on it. But now they need to explain away why he confessed. The reasons that they give for why he did this are outlined in this document in a frankly unbelievable way. But we'll come back to that.

So essentially, the bulk of this document is focused on the idea that investigators completely ignored overwhelming evidence pointing to the fact that the Delphi murders were the work of otanists. Where does this claim come from? Well, let's look at the new information we learned from this document about details regarding how the girls' bodies were found, including things that we never knew before. As we told you in our two-parter last year on this case, the girls were found in the woods near Deer Creek under the Monon High Bridge. At the time we knew that the bodies had been moved and posed but we really didn't know anything else. This document has revealed a lot of information about the crime scene. We now know that Abby and Libby were found very close together. Libby was

found naked and her body was lying at the base of a tree, with four branches on top of it. Her left arm was stretched above her head, touching the base of the tree, while her right arm was laid by her side. Both of Libby's hands were also covered in blood, as was the rest of her body. And after giving this description of the way in which Libby's body was found, the defence document goes on to detail how they believe that the branches on top of Libby were placed there in an intentional way. They describe that the branches formed a V where Libby's legs joined her body, so near her genitalia, and how another branch extended across Libby's body in a line from her right shoulder to her left shoulder, partly covering Libby's neck, which had been cut. Abby was found

just a few feet away from Libby, but laying at an angle. Abby, like Libby, was also found on her back, but with her elbows bent, with her right and left arms both placed on her chest, while her left leg was straight, her right leg was bent at the knee. The defence also say, again, that the sticks and branches on top of Abby were also placed there intentionally, and they looked like an asterisk. They also say that above Abby's head were smaller sticks that had been placed over her hair, crudely mimicking horns or antlers, in their opinion. Abby, unlike Libby, was also fully clothed. Weirdly, in fact, and this is again something we did not know until this document came out, Abby was dressed in Libby's sweatshirt and jeans, and there was no blood at

all on this clothing. So the defence speculate that this could mean that Abby was killed while she was also naked, but then she was dressed in Libby's clothes after. But unlike Libby, Abby's hands were clean, and there was no blood on her at all except around her neck wound. And that is weird, that is a very strange thing. I mean the undressing, the redressing, the redressing is definitely not something that's necessary for the commission of the crime so it is unusual but again why that points to some sort of odourless situation I'm not sure, Let's keep going. Finally, the defence also claim that the killer left a symbol at the scene, which looks like the letter F painted on the tree that Libby was lying under, and that this F was painted there in Libby's blood. So what's going on with these branches and

markings? What are they getting at? Runes. That's what they're getting at. The defence claimed that the sticks laid on top of the girls' bodies had been done intentionally to replicate and symbolise runic symbols. According to them, the rune on the tree isn't actually an F at all, but actually the rune Hegel, which depicts the word hail. And the one on Abby's body, so the way in which the branches are arranged on top of her, is the Ansus rune. And they say in this document that when you put those two runes together, they say hail Odin. It's honestly totally mental. I obviously haven't seen the crime scene pictures but given that there is no other cult or clear odinist whatnot at the scene doesn't it make much more sense that these

sticks were just an abandoned attempt to hide the bodies and as for the symbol painted on the tree that looks like an f but is actually a hegel rune i've seen sketches of it. It doesn't even look like an F. It looks like arterial spray, to be honest with you. And maybe if not, it looks like a partial handprint. Like the leaps that they are making, the mental gymnastics that they are doing is frankly unbelievable. It just looks like they're looking at this scene, seeing what else could possibly be going on and just saying, well, did anybody look at that? I don't know. It looks like a cult to me. I don't know. It's just so far flung, so fanciful. And the defense know exactly what they're doing. Like I said at the top of this episode, they wanted everybody to be talking about it. And what gets everybody talking about something faster than odious white supremacist ritualistic murder of children? Quite literally nothing.

And I also really feel like, and this is a good point that producer alex made this morning when we were having a chat about it at work they're trying to bait the true crime community the whole thing of like the antlers in the hair it's very like slipped in casually like in our opinion or it looks like this and i'm like sticks on the ground of a floor of a forest and sticks that have been clearly placed on top of a body, in my opinion, as like I said, a botched attempt to try and hide the bodies before somebody gave up and ran away. The fact that two sticks landed near Abby's head and they are pointing at the fact that they look like antlers or horns. Again, the minute you read that, you're like, oh my God. But then you read the rest of the document,

you're like, yeah, probably not. But they're're baiting us they're wanting us to believe it's some sort of true detective ritualistic like cult out there in the woods murdering children but they really have very very very little to no evidence to back up anything that they're saying but let's keep going so the defense even speculate that because of the lack of blood visible in the crime scene photos again crime scene photos that we are not privy to especially concerning abby they say that the murderers may have saved the blood up to use in future rituals okay but then they also quickly point out on this fact that it is merely a theory, admittedly not supported by any facts currently in possession of the defence, but a theory that would certainly

explain the lack of expected blood at the crime scene. That is a quote. So they even sort of cover their arses after making these absurd claims by saying, well, we don't actually have evidence for that. But have you thought about it? No? Well, we're just saying. I don't actually have any evidence for that but have you thought about it no well we're just saying i don't know they also fail to mention when they say that there isn't that much blood on abbey that there is a river right there so again we just don't have enough information to make any sort of real claims about what happened or what didn't happen but they have a lot of evidence and they're not making any particularly strong claims that are backed by any particularly strong evidence. So did the police at Carroll County or the FBI who were investigating this case ever actually considered the idea that this was some sort of cultist murder? Well, actually, yes.

At the start of the investigation, the police did apparently go and speak to a professor on all things Nordic to get his opinion on the scene. Again, like, who pointed out the fact that the branches could look runic and like we need to go speak to a professor. We'll come on to that. But they did go and speak to somebody. But they quickly ruled it all out. After the professor said that it really didn't look like anything. And the police said that they did not consider the branches in any way to be meaningful and that they did not believe that they had been placed on the girls with any intentionality. The defence countered

this claim in the document by stating that at least one of the tree branches appears to have been clearly cut by some sort of instrument like an electric saw rather than split or broken by hand pointing to this having been some sort of preconceived plan but again we just don't know and we can't be sure and i'm going to admit this next bit is a fuck up on the police's part reason we can't know whether these branches were cut or just snapped is because the police didn't actually collect any of these branches at the time that is a big oh no that is a big stupid move on the part of the police they obviously took photographs of the scene and therefore you can look at the branches the way they were arranged or laid or thrown on top of the girls whatever words you want to use and whether

they were cut or not you might be able to see at the ends of the branches but the police after taking the pictures simply discarded the branches in the woods believing like i've said they were cut or not, you might be able to see at the ends of the branches. But the police, after taking the pictures, simply discarded the branches in the woods, believing, like I've said, they were just a poor effort to hide the bodies. After people started wondering whether it could have been something more, two weeks later the police did go back to get the branches. Again, yes, stupid move. But do I think, again, that the branches were more likely a bad attempt to cover the girls up, or a runic representation of Hail Odin by some murderous cultists? I'd go with the former.

Now in this document, the defence also make assertions that the bodies were placed very specifically in that arrangement, like the way in which Libby and Abby's heads are facing the way their arms are placed the way their legs are placed all of this kind of stuff but to me it really seems more likely that they were just dragged into those positions it is absolutely evident that the girls were killed somewhere else in the woods and then dragged to the location that they were left but the reason I don't think they were specifically placed is because Libby's phone, the one with the bridge guy video on it, and her shoe were found underneath Abby's back.

We always had just been told that the phone was found in the nearby vicinity. We never knew exactly where. Now we're being told the phone was under Abby's back and so was Libby's shoe. If you are a cultist and taking precise care of the way you're arranging these two girls that you've just murdered, would you really miss the fact that there's a shoe and a phone as you're carefully arranging her body? I don't know. The defense then make the claim in the document that the police focused on Richard Allen and basically no one else, stating that aside from officers, who they name in this document as Kevin Murphy, Greg Furnessy, and Todd Click, who continue to investigate and state that this was absolutely the work of Odinists,

the rest of the investigators had focused in on Richard Allen. Now, I immediately take issue with this, because, again, if you go back and listen to our two-parter, essentially what happened is when I started writing that two-parter, we were on tour in Europe. I wrote episode one, wrote most of episode two. And then after five years out absolutely nowhere, the police arrested Richard Allen. Now they'd had him on their radar since 2017, but we did not. In fact, there was another guy in the frame for it, a man named Kegan Klein, who we'll come back to later, who looked really, really good for it. So the fact that anybody's saying that they didn't look at anybody else

when they thoroughly investigated the Kleins and looked at other suspects like Ron Logan, whose land it was that the girls were found near, it's nonsense. They did not just focus on Richard Allen. It took them five years to arrest the guy. But coming back to those three police officers who seemed convinced that this was the work of a cult, they apparently had linked the murders to the work of a cult-like group operating out of the nearby town of Rushville. In fact, after Richard Allen's arrest, Assistant Police Chief Todd Click, now retired, was so sure that Carroll County had arrested the wrong man that he actually wrote to the DA saying that this was an Odinist murder.

And in this document, the defence even say that the BAU determined, and this is a quote, determined that the individuals responsible for the homicides were involved in Nordic beliefs. Really? I don't know. None of this came up before. And I haven't heard the FBI

back this up one way or another. And also, we know the FBI were helping with the investigation into the clients. And also, what came of Richard Allen? So, I don't know. I think, like we said, there was a thought process at the beginning. There was a line of inquiry that was followed about whether this could have been some sort of cult murder. But it clearly wasn't followed up on. And is it right that the defense is saying that it wasn't followed up on because they really wanted to railroad Richard Allen? Firstly, why? Or is it that it wasn't followed up on because it wasn't true? He was hip hop's biggest mogul, the man who redefined fame, fortune, and the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Sean Diddy Cone.

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Now, the defense also say in this document that the Carroll County Sheriff failed to include any of this Odonai information in his search warrant. And that all of this Odonite evidence, though I would beg to ask what evidence, was buried, quote, like a needle in the haystack. So basically saying that the police, when they handed over Discovery to the defence, buried everything. The prosecution and the police buried all of this Odonite information. You know, they really covered it up, or they even go on to say some of it was not even handed over to the defense for months. And I've actually seen people going on the news talking about this case being like, this is a very serious allegation. If this is true, this is, you know, corruption left, right,

and center. But as is my understanding, when the prosecution and the police hand over discovery to the defense pre-trial, they can hand it over as they see fit. So there isn't a time component, as far as I can tell. It just has to be handed over before trial. And they say about this letter that was sent from Officer Click to the prosecutor, that the prosecutor had that letter for four months and it wasn't handed over to the defence. But it was handed over. It was handed over before trial because we're not even anywhere near a trial.

And that is the only stipulation that is made as to how discovery needs to be handed over, as far as I can tell. It's only once the trial has begun that any evidence that comes to light to the prosecution or the police has to be handed over immediately. But people making these accusations that somehow the prosecution were being corrupt because they didn't hand this letter over for months,

that is highly manipulative and highly misleading to make it seem like there was some sort of corruption going on behind the scenes with that. So yeah, basically, reading this document, the defense makes it crystal clear. They lay it out saying this was absolutely without a shadow of a doubt the work of Odinus. And they're saying it in such a factual manner, like we're meant to just take their word for it and believe it. Because in the document, they even say, quote, Richard Allen has no links to pagan cults and no forensic evidence links him to the murders of the girls therefore he is innocent what they're just stating as if it's fact that this was some sort of ritualistic killing but showing no concrete evidence to back it up

whatsoever and before anyone is like the defense just have to poke holes and create beyond reasonable doubt. Yes, that is true. But the alternative theories that they pose, they have to show them to be plausible and aligned with some sort of evidence, not just by randomly saying things. And the document just gets worse, because then the defence have to tackle the huge problem that they have of the fact that Richard Allen confessed five times in prison. And to this, the defense say that members, and this is just honestly outstanding. My jaw completely dropped open when I read this. The defense say that the reason

Richard Allen confessed is because members of the same Odinist cult that killed Abbey and Lippy are working as guards at the Westville Correctional Facility where Richard Allen is being held. And that Richard Allen is being threatened, intimidated and mentally abused by them. And they

forced him to confess by threatening to murder his family if he didn't. the fuck it's like the next season of true detective this honesty it is so fantastical and in the document the defense goes as far as to name these prison guards like prison guards who still work at this prison they're just naming and they also say that these prison guards wore badges or patches on their work uniforms that said in odin we trust honestly it is so unethical that they are naming these people and again where is there evidence that any of this happened?

And these prison guards are not the only people named in this document, because the defence have outright named the men that they say are responsible. So the defence in this document don't just say it's not Richard Allen, it's some unnamed cult. They name four men. Now, I am not going to name these men, because they are not suspects as far as the police are concerned. They're not even persons of interest as far as the police are concerned. But essentially, the defence point the finger at one particular man who they say is the ringleader, who lives in a nearby town. Now, this man is an Odinite. He posts pictures of runes and motivational quotes from

the ancient Norse religion all over his Facebook. And according to the defence, this is him mocking investigators. They also claim that this man's son was dating Abby. But it really made me laugh that even they put dating in the defense document in quotes because Abby was 13 years old like her and this boy that she was apparently dating didn't even live in the same town really dating like it's again it's just clutching uh fucking odinist sticks out here. So let's pedal back a bit. What led the defense to this man that they're pointing the finger at? Well, his ex-partner and the ex-partner of another one of these four men that's in his cult said that they were violent and part of a white supremacist Odinist cult. And these women also said that the two men killed the girls because, quote, one of their mothers was mixing with other people outside of the mother's race.

Right. So, ex-partner testimony. Firstly, how reliable is that? I don't know, you can make up your own mind about that. But the ex partners of these men come forward and say they did it they confessed it to me they said that they had murdered it and they did it because they're white supremacists in an odinist cult and one of abby or libby's mums was dating somebody who's not white and that's why we killed these two white girls like okay, though, these women offer no evidence to back up any of this.

It's just what they're saying happened. And also, it's important to say that the police questioned this man during the investigation and cleared him very quickly because he has an alibi. Also, nothing links him whatsoever to this crime. And no one saw him there. What the defence say proves it's him is images, random memes and pictures of sticks that they pulled off his Facebook. And this is a quote. This is a quote from the defence document. The man, so they use his name and i'm not going to had painted what the defense would call a very

creepy serial killer looking image of a naked man hanging from a tree that is a quote a very creepy serial killer looking image what again i can't help but feel when I read lines like that, that it is just, it's like speaking to the lowest common denominator. And I mean that, I mean us by that. It's like they're trying to drop it down to the level that we will all be like, oh my God, he's a serial killer. Look at this image. Look at that.

Like it's so basic in the way that it's written and delivered. And it's honestly shocking for a defense filing like this. I've read a lot of them and I've never come across anything like this. So yeah, apparently he has some sort of creepy serial killer image of a naked man hanging from a tree. We're all meant to get very excited about that. But, well, if he's an Odinist, that kind of sounds like pictures that an Odinist would have, because I believe it's a picture of Odin hanging from a tree. So, I don't know. Let's move on.

Because the defence also, like I said, they trawl through his Facebook looking for evidence that he is a murderer. And they actually include this in the document. It's a good fella's meme. You probably have seen it out there, all of us, with kind of dark senses of humor, not that it's particularly funny, and you know, anyone who spends time on the fucking internet, because this meme that they pull up and use in their defense document to point to and prove that this man is a murderer is a goodfellas meme, which says your real ones don't judge you or ask a bunch of questions they help you move the body and never speak of it again oh my god they then

in this defense document spent pages and pages discussing odinism and the fact that this man again who i'm not going to name, who takes pictures of sticks in the woods when he's out and about walking because he thinks they look like runes and post them on Facebook, is again doing that because he's mocking investigators. And look, he loves sticks. He loves pictures of sticks on the floor. He must have put those sticks and branches on top of those two murdered girls because they look like rooms. What are you talking about? But they keep talking. They point to nothing that proves that this man and his friends

had anything to do with this. Everything they say is beyond unfounded and really reminiscent of sort of 70s and 80s satanic panic kind of cases just now combined with this white nationalism angle and again this brings us back to those three officers that we mentioned at the start who were absolutely convinced that the Delphi murders were the work of a cult they also had no evidence and we've seen police get swept up in satanic panic nonsense before and I know I keep saying the kind of 70s, 80s satanic panic style cases, but we also did that two parter. I believe it was last year on QAnon and how the satanic panic has never really gone away,

but how it's evolved from what it used to be into now being this kind of QAnon thing where it's like the belief that there is a sort of satanic cabal of predators who are like sucking on children to get adrenochrome out of them and doing whatnot and murdering babies. And, you know, again, when you have cases like Jeffrey Epstein happen, it's very hard to then dissuade people that that's not true. But that is very deeply rooted in a fair number of people's psyches, or at least the spectrum on which they are willing to sit in their belief of that. So again, when a case like this happens, maybe it makes more sense that people want to believe it's some sort of otherworldly, satanic, cultist group that are doing it rather than just like the guy who worked at the pharmacy.

So let's talk about Odinism. Now we have come across this particular concept before. I think we talked about it in the Norway heavy metal episodes but we also talk about it in an episode that you guys haven't heard yet. It's an upcoming shorthand that will be coming out in October on occult Nazis. Now we are of course not experts on Odinism i would never claim to be but just to be clear not everyone who is interested in odinism or rooms is a racist white supremacist or some sort of mental cultist that is just fact that's not true but it would be lying to deny that odinism is a religious belief system that has been co-opted by white nationalists and racists, particularly in the US and in parts of Europe. But again, did such a group murder Abbie

and Libby? That's the question. And given the evidence or lack thereof, I think it's highly, highly, highly doubtful that that is anywhere near the truth. So let's move on. The next big talking point in the document was how could one man have done all of this alone in just an hour and 17 minutes? To which I would answer, easily. Incredibly bloody easily. An hour and 17 minutes to kill two girls?

That's quite a long time. And in this document, you can go read it if you really want to, but I don't know. I don't know if it's really worth your time. But in the document, they outline 92 excruciating points, asking how one man could have marched the girls down the hill, brought them through the woods, across the river, undressed them, killed them both and then redressed Abby. Ending with how could one man, five foot four inches in stature, have handled all of these tasks? And again, that is a quote. And again, easily. He had a gun.

And five foot four or not, he was a fully grown man and they were children. The defence also, of course, leave out all of the stuff that links Richard Allen to the killings. Like the fact that he placed himself at the scene. Not just at the park, but on the Monon High Bridge at the same time as the girls. And also the fact that three teenagers saw him walking towards the bridge that day at the right time. Or the fact that his bullet was found at the scene. And yes, I have to admit that sort of forensically examining a bullet

that's just been ejected from a gun is not perfect in terms of a forensic match but it is important and also they just try and explain away the fact that he has confessed five times in the past year again maybe people will say his mental state was severely impacted by being in prison and that's why he made these confessions that's a separate conversation but to say he did it because he was being threatened by Odinist guards who were going to murder his wife. That's a whole nother fucking kettle of crazy fish. And I've also seen quite a few podcasters and news hosts in the last couple of days saying things on the internet like, well, there was nothing else on Richard Allen.

No search history, no DNA, nothing else. Again, I don't know if we can make that claim. We don't know what else the police have on Richard Allen. What they released in the probable cause affidavit is just a tiny fraction of what they actually have. They're not going to release their entire case to us pre-trial. So we don't know. We can't make that claim yet. Also, this idea that there is no DNA linking Richard Allen to the murders, there was no DNA full stop. That's not proof that he didn't do it. And if there's no DNA, how are people using that to say that a cult of four men killed Abby and Libby and left

no DNA, but this one man couldn't have killed them and also have left no DNA. Like, it doesn't make any sense. Now the undressing and redressing part, let's address that. What was going on here? Why did whoever killed Abby undress her and then redress her? I'm not sure. It's some sort of signature or maybe some sort of experimentation on the part of the killer, perhaps. And maybe even if the sticks were intentionally placed on top of Abby and Libby, and we can't make the case that they were just an attempt to hide them, it doesn't mean it's a bunch of cultists. It could still mean it was one killer. Serial killers have done weirder things than that.

Again, it could just be this killer experimenting, seeing what really turns him on seeing you know how he can elevate his fantasy to the next level it doesn't make it an odinist cult trying to spell out runes on top of these murdered girls and then to address the other big issue that has become a real point of contention on the internet a lot of people are now saying that they believe that the police have stitched richard allen up based on what is in this defense document guys everyone we just need to calm down this defense document again is not backed up by any evidence they're just pointing the finger at random people and making all sorts of accusations and remember their aims are to get

the search warrant invalidated so therefore all of the evidence that was found at Richard Allen's house would become inadmissible at trial. They're trying to get Richard Allen moved out of that prison mainly actually because it's really far away from where the defense are based and I think they're kind of just sick and tired of like going all that way out to speak to their client all the time so they definitely want him moved and they're also trying to explain away why he confessed five times you have to think about the motivation with which this document was written i do not think you can take it at face value and this idea that the police stitched richard allen up why why would

they do that if the police knew back then that there was a cult and they were the ones that had killed the girls an angle that they did explore before they sort of like set it aside as being completely unlikely and implausible why would they have just stopped why would they not have carried that cult angle out to the end and then nailed the most random guy who just worked at the cvs that nobody had on their radar for this crime especially even if you leave alone the whole cult angle. Why would the police railroad Richard Allen when if you remember that for years they investigated the catfishing paedophile Kegan Klein? Why wouldn't the police have just gone after him?

If they wanted to railroad someone, the catfishing paedo would have been a much better option than the random CVS guy that nobody suspected. So basically, yes, we do not know all of what the police have on Richard Allen. So please don't fall for this defense document and its very, very weird claims. This is a distraction and a way for them to inject more confusion into this already massively confusing case. The police had plenty of opportunities to railroad suspects or even nab Richard Allen earlier than they did. And we haven't seen their case yet. But looking at how ludicrous this document is

and looking at Richard Allen's multiple confessions from prison, I think the evidence must be strong and the defence is sort of making one last Hail Mary or Hail Odin to try and do something. But we'll have to wait and see when the trial comes around because based on this defense document it really does look like they want to go to trial. But yeah that's kind of it. I would just

say exercise caution. A lot of people are running around very like hair on fire about this whole document. I'm not saying the police have conducted this investigation flawlessly, of course not. There are many issues for them to sort of address when it comes to trial. We talked about it in the two parts of things like the two sketches, things like was the bullet kind of the only thing they really have linking it to Richard Allen? What else have they got? I don't know. We need to wait for trial. And I'll just say what we said in the two-parter that we released last year. Ignore the sketches. The sketches again could be a distraction. Bridge Guy, the video that Libby shot, he looks a lot like Richard Allen. And he doesn't

look a lot like the guy that they're pointing the finger at, the ringleader of this Odinist cult. And also, he placed himself there. Monon High Bridge and the area the girls were walking in that day is not like a hiking trail that is like jam-packed with people. It was quite remote. And there weren't a lot of people there that day. So he places himself at the scene. The bullet evidence is matched. We don't know what else they have.

There's also witnesses placing a car that looks a lot like his in the same area as well. We're just going to have to wait and see what happens. But do I think it was a cult? No. So that's it guys. We'll see you next time for some other things. Bye! You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either, until I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness. And inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more.

Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. I'm Jake Warren, and in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mom's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery Plus. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post

by a person named Loti. It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance but it instantly moved me

and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding and this time, if all goes to plan we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively

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