RedHanded - Episode 113 - Gable Tostee: Part 2 - The Aftermath

Episode Date: September 26, 2019

2 years after Gable Tostee was arrested for the murder of Warriena Wright he stood trial. In this week’s episode the girls delve into the aftermath, the court case, Tostee’s bizarre past behaviour towards women - and vitally all of the information that the jury weren’t told at his trial... Sources: What The Gable Tostee Jury Wasn't Told https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/what-the-gable-tostee-jury-wasnt-told/news-story/3d7799ae491cfb454f05254e067df8c7 Gable Tostee could face fresh charges for death of Tinder date Warriena Wright on Gold Coast https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12189542 Gable Tostee's parents have defended his actions on the night Warriena Wright died. https://www.mamamia.com.au/gable-tostee-parents-60-minutes/ Gable Tostee murder trial hears Warriena Wright's body severely mangled https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/oct/13/gable-tostee-trial-hears-warriena-wrights-body-severely-mangled   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, friends.

I have literally just walked through my front door after five shows on our first ever UK tour. We did it and you helped us to do it as well. If you missed out on the live shows, you don't have to miss out completely. You can head over to redhandedshop.com and get your hands on our tour merch. We've got t-shirts, we've got tote bags and you need to get them while they are fresh and hot because they will only be on sale for an extremely limited amount of time. So head over to redhandedshop.com to get your piece of the action. I'm Saruti. I'm Hannah. And welcome to Red Handed. If you haven't listened to last week's episode yet, which was Gable Tosti part one, please go back and listen. Obviously, that makes sense. If you

don't listen, none of today's episode will make sense. You will be lost in a web of men's rights activism, I think, which is where nobody wants to be, quite honestly. You stole the words from my mouth. Nobody wants to be there. So last week, we left Tosti on the morning of the 9th of August 2014, sat waiting for his dad to come and pick him up after he had fled his flat when a young woman, Warina Wright, had fallen to her death from his balcony. As promised, Grey Tosti came to pick up his son. Grey and Helene Tosti, Gable Tosti's parents, are interesting characters in this whole situation. We watched interviews with them and they're included in a couple of the documentaries that we'll link to this episode.

And it really feels to me like they're saying one thing with their mouths, but another thing with their demeanour. Especially his mum. Like, when they're being questioned, they look a lot more shattered and devastated by what's happened than I think Gable Tosty ever looks, to be perfectly honest. And they hold a press conference in which they say that they didn't think that Gable needed to take any responsibility for what happened that night, saying, quote, maybe he should have asked her to leave sooner, but Gable behaved in a way that was appropriate. We have always believed him because he told us the truth. We know our son and he's caring and considerate and thoughtful of

others. That's his mum saying that. And I just find it really hard to believe because before she answers the question question she takes this big long pause where she even kind of looks like okay let's let's lie yeah I mean she's clearly had some media training I think like it must be so hard though obviously we deal with parents on the show whose kids have done fucking abhorrent things and it must be incredibly difficult as a parent to like out your kid in any way like I actually don't think we've come across it that often like even with um in the Alicia McPhail episode his mum doesn't really give him away wholeheartedly but she kind of you get the feeling that she does know but she doesn't like dob him in because it's her son do

you know what I mean so I think it's a complicated relationship to be in. Oh, definitely. And, you know, none of this is to sort of like slag off his parents. Like, they, they're not the ones that did it. Like, I get that. I just think it's a, it's an interesting point because, especially from his mum's point of view, because everything, as Hannah alluded to with the whole men's rights activist stuff, the stuff we talked about last week with the sort of pickup artist things,able tosti is that kind of guy as you are going to find out in today's episode i just kind of feel like his mum she knows what he is the way he talks about women on the internet there's no way she doesn't know after the incident gable tosti stayed holed up at his parents house for the next week until queensland police finally came to arrest him.

He was charged with the murder of Warina Wright. We've spent a lot of time focusing last week on the night of the incident, so let's take a step back and talk about who Warina Wright was. Warina, or as she was known to her friends, Ree, was a 26-year-old woman from New Zealand. She grew up in Lower Hutt in Wellington and she attended a Seventh-day Adventist church where her Philippines-born mother was a deacon. Seventh-day Adventists are hardcore, man. They take the Sabbath exceedingly seriously.

Warina worked for Kiwi Bank, and she was pretty wild. Her social media was full of pictures of her skydiving and partying and holding snakes around her neck. She seems like a real, like, daredevil typevil type and she liked to travel especially on her own and that week she had flown to queensland for an old co-worker's wedding but she was going to stay on after for a bit of a holiday during her time in australia warina had hit tinder she was young and traveling on her own so why not see if she could meet a guy to hang out with? She and Tosti had actually matched on Tinder several days before they met and had been exchanging messages.

A lot of people are like, oh my god, I can't believe she's in a country she doesn't know and she's on Tinder, like, meeting up with guys. I don't think that's that weird. No, oh god no, I've done it. Exactly, I've done it. And she's at a wedding, like, she's single, she's there on holiday afterwards. Yeah, I'm going to a wedding in, like, South Africa next year and I'm going to Mozambique for a week afterwards. Because what's the point of going all of that way for like three days? Definitely. And she's there like hanging out with another friend after the wedding.

But presumably that friend has to probably still go to work. So she's kind of on her own. So I think she's just like, yeah, let me see if I can meet other people. It's a lot easier to meet people on Tinder than it is to just meet quote unquote friends to hang out with. It's not that weird. What I do think is weird is the messages that Tosti opens up with immediately. And I don't mean weird as in unusual, because we've all had these kind of messages. Weird as in he's just a fucking creepy weird guy. But let's have a look at their sort of first exchange so tosti opens up their chat by calling marina a slack-jawed yokel and calling her cletus and i didn't really understand because then it's a simpsons reference no no i get the cletus reference but i mean

why he called her that the only thing i could think is is that how australians see new zealanders i think there's a little bit of i I don't know because I'm not Australian. I'm also not from New Zealand. But in my experience, a couple of the Australians I've known make jokes about New Zealanders in the way that we make jokes about the Welsh. Like sort of like sheep shagging, like very rural. It's that kind of idea. Why are we so obsessed with sheep shagging as like an incel? But we are as a species.

As a nation, especially. But no, you're right. i think that's all i meant is i didn't understand why he opens with that because there's there's nothing on her tinder profile that makes her look like a yokel but right i think it's some sort of like antipodean you know insult exchange but anyway he then goes on to say you look delicious i want to do dirty things to you. And Marina replies to this. And I love her. She's like, does that usually work?

And Tosti, he can't even laugh off something like that. He's so tragic because he replies with, haha, not trying to make anything work. I'm just saying, got a problem with that. And then like a little colon and a P, which is obviously like a fucking sticky out tongue face. Oh, fuck off. It is my least favorite emoticon for sure. I hate it. I hate it.

So Warina replies, lol, fair enough. I was just asking. Tosti, so you're down with that then? Can you be a freak in the sheets? Warina, lol, probably not. Depends. Tosti, what does it depend on? Warina, Lol. Probably not. Depends. Tosti. What does it depend on?

Warina. What I've had to drink. Lol. Tosti. Let's get drunk together. I'm a porn star. After a few drinks. Are you?

Are you really? No. I hate it. I hate it so much. And I really wish I could say that i hadn't had conversations like this on dating apps but i fully have i had this one guy once he was like an art dealer or something like had a really good job like lived in a nice area of town and i was like okay great and then literally two minutes into the conversation he just started talking about how enormous his penis

is and how it's more of a burden than like a blessing and how like it just he has to like get it out the way because it's caused like massive like freak outs with girls in the past and i was like i'm not gonna discuss with you like my ability to take giant dongs like what no thank you i'm done it is also i must say incredibly easy to write whatever job title you want in those apps so we don't know maybe he is an art dealer with a giant penis who likes to forewarn the women that he meets on dating apps. And maybe he's just a fucking guy sat in his mum's basement saying random shit. Quite possibly. I've never had like that weirdly explicit conversations with anybody on Tinder.

Really? No, it's never really happened. Never had a dick pic. Maybe it's just my face and women are just invited. Clearly, people are just like, nah, it's not going to work with her. But I do get incredibly boring men talking to me on social media, as you remember from them. Oh, tell them about Mark. Mark.

Fucking Mark. So I actually screenshotted this conversation to send it to Hannah because it just made me die inside so much. Talking to this guy, it was like, hey, I was like reasonably attractive, like fine. Sent a message, hey, how's your week been? I was like, all right, is this the dance we're dancing? Okay, fine. So Hannah and I had a very busy week that particular week and so I replied with what I thought was quite a little quippy message. I was like, oh, would it be too dark to say, Mark, that my week's been so busy that I think I may have actually died somewhere around lunchtime Tuesday. Oh, and I said, ha ha, how about you?

His response, week's been good. Great job, Mark. Great chat. Good job. Thanks. Thanks, Mark. You're immediately deleted. Get out.

I just can't. I actually laughed and then i cried and then i laughed for a good 20 minutes when you showed me that it was so funny i mean honestly i'll post it on social media you can all have a laugh i've got the screenshot anyway so anyway here is tobacco tosti telling warina that he is a porn star after a few drinks. Warina's response is, ha, that's great, dot dot dot. I mean, she totally doesn't seem into it, does she? Not really, no. And then he replies,

ignoring her, like, basically scorning him. So she clearly tries to move away from that conversation by asking, you in Gold Coast? Tosti, yup, you? Warina, yeah, just exploring Surfers. Tosti, lol, I live in Surfers, how long mentioned in last week's episode, Warina gives him her number. After they exchange numbers,

one of Warina's last messages read to him, quote, The only word in there that is inaccurate is old, because he's everything else. Warina may have presented with a lot of tough talk, both in messages with Chosti and on the night in question. But I think that was to hide her vulnerabilities. And you are vulnerable in that situation if you're going to go and meet a stranger and she's on her own in a country that she's not from. So during Warina's post-mortem several old scars were found on her wrists and thighs and they looked like they were self-inflicted

but Warina was clearly working on finding happiness. Just a week before she died she had commented on a Facebook picture of herself and her friend with quote, I'm getting there, I'm trying to be happy. And a lot of coverage on this case focuses very much on what happened that night. And yes, of course, mysteries are always intriguing. But a big part of the story for us was how Warina was so let down by the prosecution in this case. And we don't want to get unnecessarily graphic about Warina's injuries. She fell 14 stories and ricocheted off balconies on her way down. And in the reports as well, you kind of hear that there was like almost no blood left that they could even test for toxicology. So they had to take the fluid out of her eyeball to be able to test it. So it took two years for this case to come to trial,

finally beginning in mid-October 2016. The defence's argument at trial was that Tosti and Warina were intimate. Then things went south, and Tosti had asked her to leave, locking her on the balcony when she became, quote, psycho. So Barrister Sol Holt, who is Tosti's defence man, made the case that Tosti treated the, quote, massively drunk and, quote, massively out of control Miss Warina Wright with patience. Even going so far as to say that putting her out on the balcony

was gentlemanly of him. What, like keeping her outside like a fucking rabbit so you can deal with her later? Yeah, he's basically saying, well, look how gentlemanly he was. He didn't chuck her out into, you know, the street or chuck her out of his apartment. He just put her out on the balcony so that she could calm down because she was acting mental. That's what he's saying. He goes on to say that, you know, Tosti put her out there, but it was her fatal decision to climb over the balcony. It was her decision. And it was a decision which reflected her irrational behavior throughout the night. And this is what led to her death. The defense's main narrative, therefore,

was that Tosti was using reasonable force to defend himself against Warina, someone who had hit him, according to, you know, the audio and Tosti's testimony, with decorative rocks that were in the house, and who had also tried to hurt him with that metal telescope clamp that he had talked about. And the defence were clear. Warina had ended up jumping or falling to her death without any provocation or intervention from Tosti because she was drunk and crazy. And Holt made the point that, quote, you don't get convicted of murder or manslaughter for saying stupid things or for being angry. And he tries very hard throughout the trial to move the narrative

around Tosti to, yeah, he's a wanker, but you can't find him guilty of murder for being a wanker. And it's like when we did the cannibal cop case with gilberto valley like you cannot like him but that doesn't make him guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and it pains me to say it but i do think the defense did a good job of trying to get their client off the issue that we have is with the prosecution their theory was that tosti had trapped warina on his balcony and locked the door and that she was so terrorised and terrified at this point that she climbed over the balcony to escape and then fell to her death

in the escape attempt. Prosecutor Glenn Cash argued that Tosti had quote, caused her death as much as if he had pushed her from the balcony himself. No, sorry, no. And I do think the defense do have to broach this subject of him, quote unquote, being a wanker. So it fits their narrative because the jury heard the audio recording. They hear all of it.

So they can hear him saying the things that he says, like, you're lucky I haven't chucked you out over the balcony, you psycho bitch. And the stuff, the worst bit, in my opinion my opinion is when she's saying let me go home and he's saying i would but you've been a bad girl like they have to um they have to account for why he says that or what the jury is going to think of that and their narrative around that is yeah he said some stupid things but he was also drunk he was also angry you can't convict him for murder because he said some angry things and in terms of the being drunk thing, they test Marina's liquid from her eyeball to test for toxicology. She was found to be over three times over the legal limit. But Tosti's blood wasn't tested for another 14 hours after

the incident because remember, he like runs off. So we actually don't know how drunk or not drunk Tosti was that night. If you're saying it's like he caused her death as much as if he had pushed her from the balcony himself, why not go to the narrative of he fucking put her over the railings? They never bring that up. So the prosecution's entire argument was just that Tosti intimidated Warina to the point of physically restraining her and locking her up on the balcony, and that she was so terrified of him that she tried to escape by jumping down. How could the prosecution go

along with the defense's story that Gable Toste hadn't directly caused Warina to fall from the balcony? How could they not bring that up? Like let's look at it from like a sort of a logical perspective. What do they have to show that he pushed her off the balcony not really very much they have an audio recording which isn't totally clear and they've got his word warina's dead so that they'd have no idea i can kind of i don't agree with it i feel like obviously the argument we are making is a very logical argument it's a hard case to put together because what do they have to prove it but the thing is it's like you could argue it the other way what did they have to say that he didn't do that the whole point of the defense or the prosecution in a criminal

trial is to tell a story is to build a narrative using what you do have and just things that they could have picked out from the audio that we picked out last week about how she never bangs on the window she never bangs on the door she's never sort of heard to be asking to be let back in and making noise like trying to open the balcony door why isn't she why is she just standing on the balcony screaming no no no let me go home but never makes any attempt to get back into the flat that to me immediately would be because for some reason she can't get to the door it's just building a story. It's building a narrative. Oh, totally. But I think maybe they thought, you know, we've never got enough evidence to get in for murder. Maybe we can get in for manslaughter. And this is the thing, they get shot in the foot with that as well. So I just think the possibility that Tosti

could have placed Warina on the railings and left her dangling, like we said as we discussed last week, is bizarrely, in my opinion, entirely ignored throughout the trial. And I just think, okay, the audio recording, like we talked about the fact that she never bangs on the window, the fact that she's screaming so hysterically, that should have played a part in it, even if you leave that aside. There's also eyewitness testimony to discuss. And I do think when you take this into consideration, for me, it just feels like it's very hard to understand why they never bring up this narrative. So let's get into it. Multiple witnesses who lived in Tosti's building have testified to hearing Marina's screams. And they described them, obviously, as terrifying. You've

all heard it. Of course it is. There's one particular woman called Emily Ellis who lived directly below Tosti's flat. And she said that she heard screaming, rushed over to the balcony and saw Warina's legs hanging down. She said that Warina had her back to the balcony and her feet were pointing outwards away from the building. And she was clear that it didn't look like Warina was lowering herself gently down. that it didn't look like Warina was lowering herself gently down. To Emily, it looked like Warina was hanging there. And to those of you who are familiar with this case, you might be thinking, hang on a minute, because this description of Warina dangling with her back to the building contradicts an image circulating on the internet

of a female police officer who was reenacting the night and Warina's hanging from the balcony. The officer was dangled over the balcony and warina's hanging from the balcony the officer was dangled over the balcony and she's facing towards the balcony with her feet facing into the building so with her back facing away from the building absolutely the opposite of what this eyewitness is saying that she saw if you were going to climb down something which way would you climb with my front facing the thing i was climbing down surely yeah i suppose you would only do your back facing it if you were going to push yourself off and if she's hanging she clearly isn't doing that the information that led to that reenactment shot that warina had been hanging with her back

away from the building came from another neighbor so maybe you could argue that the two eyewitnesses say totally opposite things and one could be right and one could be wrong so of course one narrative was chosen by the police and the legal teams said no more about it. Well, that's kind of nonsense because both eyewitnesses say that they saw Warina twisting. So there's no absolute reason that both positions that Warina was spotted in that morning couldn't have been true. And also, eyewitness testimony, not always the most reliable thing in the world. But consider this. warina is thrown over the railings by tosti she's in an awful position with limited control with her back

against the building someone sees her then she twists herself around all the while screaming and now is seen in the new position by another witness that's entirely possible and she's an active girl as well she's doing like sky skydiving and shit. She was probably quite fit, probably had quite a lot of upper body strength. So the question is, if she climbed down of her own accord, why is she ever in the position that the eyewitness Emily saw her in with her back against the building? This is the thing. They could both be totally plausible.

But why at all is she ever in a position with her back against the balcony? It doesn't make sense to me if she'd climb down on her own. And again, it's just remarkable because the defense didn't bring any of this up at trial. And because of their failure to show the possibility or to just throw up the possibility that Tosti put Warina over the railing, the judge, John Byrne, told jurors that in order to convict the defendant, they had to believe that intimidation and fear caused Warina to climb from the balcony and thereby cause her own death. So this is the thing. Whether the prosecution were able to prove this other narrative is one thing. It's the fact that they didn't even bring it up. So when it came to the judge giving the jurors instructions on how

they had to go and judge this case, they're basically completely painted into a corner. The judge also declared that the possible defences offered to Tosti, such as self-defence, removing a disorderly person or preventing repetition of insult, needed to be excluded for the jury to return a murder or manslaughter conviction. Surely that's asking a lot. They were basically given audio to listen to, the jury that is,

in which you can hear Warina shouting and throwing things at Tosti. And then they're told you have to exclude the motives of self-defense in order to convict him even of manslaughter. How are they reasonably expected to do that? It just feels like it was completely loaded against the prosecution from the start and self it's so strange the self-defense is so difficult to prove how many times have we seen it where like it someone has an innocent person has gone has gone fucking has been sent down because they couldn't prove that it was self-defense and here

is this guy just like having it completely negated from his jury deliberation and in trial they kind of show pictures of him with scratches on his neck and his upper torso and they say that's from marina i have no doubt it was from marina but there are huge swathes of the audio that we listened to last week and that the jury heard where he's fucking choking her. Of course, he's got scratches on him. What does that prove? It doesn't prove anything. So basically, what they're saying is if you think he acted reasonably

by putting her out on the balcony because of self-defense. So basically, what the judge is telling the jury is if you think that he acted reasonably by putting Marina out on the balcony because of self-defense, then you cannot convict him. Essentially, that's what he's saying. And if you take into consideration all the choking sounds and the wrestling and him acting menacing, all of the shouting at her, again, the defense's case just made it look like this is self-defense. And in fact, it was because of this, because of the wrestling and because of the fact that he'd acted menacing and no further provocation that warina tried to climb down and died so what they're

saying is yes he was a wanker yes he did say things in anger yes he did get rough with her but she was as well so therefore he put her out on the balcony he wasn't even there and it was with no further provocation that she jumped or tried to climb down. So even the bits of the audio that make him look bad go to serve into the narrative that she was so freaked out and crazy that she tried to climb down. It like works in his favor and I think it's alarming that the prosecution didn't take a different route and argue a different narrative because they didn't make any other case for what happened out on the balcony. And it's clear from the audio that Tosti wasn't actually out there when Warina fell. The jury's hands are tied. So after a six-day trial and four days of deliberation, on the 20th

of October 2016, the jury, made up of six men and six women, some of whom who had tears in their eyes when they walked back out to deliver their verdict, were ready to say what they thought. They cleared Tosti of murder and manslaughter. Tosti looked up to the skies and sighed with relief. His family gasped. And Marina's family broke down. And I just thought, tragically, echoing her own daughter's final words, all Marina's mum was able to say after the trial was,

I just want to go home. And I think we've made it pretty clear what we think happened. And following on from last week's episode, there are still certain questions that are up in the air. And again, the fact that the prosecution didn't go in on these is pretty shocking. But I suppose the defence were primed and ready to cover themselves even if they had. Remember the narrative they built if you don't get convicted of murder for being a wanker. But luckily for us, the interviewer in the 60 Minutes Australia show put some of these questions to Tosti. He asked him, why didn't you go out on the balcony and see if Warina was okay? Why did you just leave the flat? And Tosti replies with, quote, if I had,

and if someone had seen me it wouldn't look good of course i was worried about her i was terrified about her but it would have looked like i pushed her whatever had happened out there had happened there was no purpose in going out there and looking and the interviewer being just a normal fucking person looks totally genuinely shocked and then says quote you felt like there was no purpose in going out there to look. And Toste sticks to his story. He says, looking over the edge wouldn't have helped anybody. Looking over the edge after someone had fallen to their death.

If someone had seen me, it would have just been bad. If I'd run out there and looked, it wouldn't have helped. That would have just been knee-jerk curiosity. I was deeply concerned by what had happened to her, but there was nothing that I could do. This all screams of absolute intentionality, doesn't it? And how did he know that she'd fallen then, if he claims that he didn't hear her screaming and he didn't go and look? Exactly, exactly.

And hold on to that question, everyone, because there's even more to query into this. And again, none of this was brought up at trial. I don't understand why. So when he was asked by this interviewer at the Australia 60 Minute Show why he'd called a lawyer instead of calling an ambulance, Tosti says, I just froze. I needed advice from someone impartial. It seemed like the most rational thing to do at the time. I knew that whatever had happened, there was nothing I could do about it. What are you talking about? Because this is just like, he wants us to believe that he didn't hear the scream because remember in last week's episode, he said that he didn't hear the scream as Warina fell. So if we believe him, then as far

as he's concerned, he just thinks that there is a drunk woman out on his balcony. But he calls his lawyer at 2.30am to get advice. Advice on what exactly? How to get rid of her? But she's safely out on your balcony. Why not call the police and say that you need this girl removed? If he genuinely believes that he's in danger, why isn't he calling someone to help him? Exactly. Get rid of her, physically get rid of her, not someone to give him legal advice. Exactly. And I think the phraseology that he uses itself is quite interesting. He says, I froze. Why did he freeze if he hadn't heard the scream of her falling? Again, like I said, none of this was explored at trial. None of this was even brought up.

The key question that Hannah asked is the one that sticks with me. How did he know that she'd fallen? If A, he says, as far as he's concerned, he's just locked her out on the balcony. And B, according to him, he hadn't even heard the scream as she fell. And even if B wasn't true, and he had heard her scream, and she had climbed down and fallen, he didn't go out and look. But he still called his lawyer. How did he know what happened? And the thing is, we have the recording. Maybe you can say, you know, what did the prosecution really have? Yes, I understand all we have is the

recording, but I just kind of feel like there's enough evidence there that even if they hadn't been successful, that at least they could have tried to build a different narrative. I just feel like they must have considered this, surely, but they went with the other alternative. But I feel like with the other alternative, the prosecution were asking the jury to believe that she tried to climb down, which seems more, like, kind of more illogical. Whereas this way, I don't know. I don't know. It's complicated. I get it. And I know we're looking at this with all of the information and in hindsight I still don't even with my best devil's advocate hat on it does seem bizarre that they didn't go

with he pushed her I mean they couldn't have really said he pushed her because he wasn't on the balcony when she fell and you can prove that with the audio because he sounds like he's back inside the room but that they didn't say that he put her in such a precarious situation out there that she fell because of something he directly did, rather than it was through her own choice of actions that she tried to climb down. He was hip hop's biggest mogul, the man who redefined fame, fortune and the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Sean Diddy Combs. Diddy built an empire and lived a life most people only dream about. Everybody know ain't no party like a Diddy party, so.

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Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall, that was no protection. Claudine Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime, and there's much more to come. This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On The Media. To listen, subscribe to On The Media wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get back to the 60 Minutes interview for a second. The interviewer pushes Toste on why he left the flat and went to go and get pizza when he had no idea if warina was even still alive and tosti claims that he had been wandering around drunk and confused and in shock

and needed to eat and sober up to figure out what to do next according to him his entire response to the incident was because quote no one is trained for a situation like that there is no right or wrong way to act um i think there might be. Oh my God. And then he goes on to say, all of the questions you're asking me are only questions that you can ask in hindsight. And the fact that he thinks there is no right or wrong way to behave feels indicative of deeper issues with Mr. Toste.

And even if his answers to the interview questions weren't indicative enough of his character for you, well, there's plenty more of that from Tosti's past. As we go through the next bit, it's really important that you bear in mind that none of this information about Tosti's behaviour was heard by the jury. It was deemed that it would have just been quote character assassination and not relevant to the case. So Gable Tosti had been born into a wealthy family. His dad owned a flooring company and Gable worked for him. He worked laying flooring and earned $70 an hour. So to sustain the lifestyle

that he wanted, he only needed to work about three or four hours a day. There are also reports that his parents paid for his flat in the Avalon building, but we couldn't confirm this. But I think it's fair to say that Tosti was pretty messed up and he had gotten into trouble with the law at various points in his life and I think that's probably why his parents are so up in his business all the time. His life consisted almost totally of drinking, cars and women. Tosti would go out four or five nights a week, usually by himself. That is a big indicator of a pickup artist if you're not aware.

And he apparently had been banned from many of the nightclubs in Surfers Paradise due to his quote sexually unsettling and unsavory behavior toward women. Toste fancied himself as a ladies man boasting online that he'd taken home as many as 150 women many who he had met through tinder. A girl named Sammy Soden who was 18 when she met Tosti, said that he was highly sexual in his Tinder messages. And when he met her at Club Live, Sammy said that he was drunk and, quote,

She and two of her girlfriends had gone back to his apartment that night but claimed nothing happened because he was apparently really creepy. And maybe you think that this is just random women coming forward now to say things about Tosti for infamy. Well, let's look at what the man himself had to say online about his conquests. Tosti was a regular on a bodybuilding forum and he used to post under the name GT. I guess like he is what we would call a pickup artist. I also want to call him like a fucking non-cell in cell because he does have sex with women, but he fucking hates them. Like what is, I mean,

I don't know. I just, I don't know what this specific in one word to sum him up and do it justice word is. So yeah, non-cell incel. He has sex, but he has totally the same mentality as an incel. Now it was on this bodybuilding forum that Tosti boasted about having sex with hundreds of women. And it's honestly tragic. The numbers he posts on there kept climbing. It would go from 150 to 162 and it finally ended up at about 180. And like we said last week, many of you probably watched it already by now, the Australia 60 Minutes interview. In there, the interviewer asks him, oh, like you've slept with around 180 women.

The smile that's like struggling not to just burst across Gable Tosty's face just makes me want to punch him. And he's like, I just don't think that's that unusual for guys my age. I'm like, like oh you prick anyway he also would um sit on this forum and talk about his success rates he claimed that his success rate was on average every five days why are you working it out you absolute fucking weirdo he's probably got a spreadsheet. Oh, 100%. 100%. Now, he even posted things like, quote, rooted about eight girls off this app last month. Rooted is like means shagged in Australian. We should say that possibly for our more international listeners. I just feel like shagged and like being drunk.

You can just like replace any word into that. And it always makes sense yeah you could just be like oh um crackered about eight girls off this app last month like it all works i got it got it not quite not quite he's just honestly he's just such a fucking loser i think that is the key message that we're trying to get across and i find it laughable honestly when i hear some people on the internet saying oh well he's not always bragging. He talks about his failures too. Well, let's examine that for a moment, shall we? Because he doesn't talk about his failures as if he had done something to cause them. He blames the women for it. This is one of his posts. Just had a big

fail streak over the weekend. Met up with four different chicks. Three of them came over to my apartment for drinks, but were totally frigid. The first girl backed off from physical contact. The second needed to focus on studying. And the third made an excuse to leave early. I'm sick of time and money wasted on bitches. Why did they come over and then act completely frigid? Yeah, I'm just like, even the way he writes it is so incel-y the first girl backed off from physical contact what like doesn't he talk about it like they're not even fucking

people he doesn't think they're people though they're just numbers to him bitches and on the forum in february 2014 he posted again saying so met up with a chick on tinder saturday night we went for a walk got some dinner and then came back to my apartment we ate then talked for a bit and then started kissing on the balcony a few minutes later we were both getting pretty into it so i suggested going to my room to lie down she follows me in there and we continue as soon as i start to make further moves she backs away telling me that she should leave soon and in another post he's talking about a girl who came to his apartment but didn't have sex with him and he says do you know how many girls say that they're not interested in sleeping with someone right before

they go ahead and do it anyway you can't blame me for trying oh my god that makes me feel sick ah that's rape culture right there that's rape culture in a sentence absolutely also i always think it's so fucked up at like when when you you know when you're a kid and like a boy like pulls your hair everyone's like oh that means he likes you so like it's even when we're children we're teaching this idea of like being nasty is actually covering up this like secret affection or whatever that is so far of course and then we're like oh well oh girls always go for the fucking bad guys and i'm like what like firstly i don't know if that's true but secondly like we're told from young girls

that if a guy's horrible to you then it probably means that he likes you so yeah who knows so it's hardly surprising that like people can chase that behavior you know exactly but also i'm not even sure if they do really like we're just told that they are and then it becomes this acceptable thing exactly i don't know it's all very complicated and but there is one shining light in this this manosphere internet hellscape it is quite nice to see that not all of tosti's posts were met with agreement one man actually replied to him saying quote it's pretty simple bro girls can actually choose who they want to have sex with i I know, crazy, right? You weren't chosen at that time. Good for you.

Thank you, Mr. Man. Thank you, Mr. Random Bodybuilding Forum Man for saying that. I think all of this obviously shines a light on how fucking creepy and socially inept Gable Tostey is. But it also really points out his total lack of self-awareness of his role in anything that happens to him. If women come over to his house, go on a date with him, see the darkness in his eyes, get creeped out and leave, well, according to Tosti, they're frigid. I hate that word. Yeah.

I hate that word so much. It's despicable. Now, remember also how Tosti got banned from all those clubs? Well, apparently that wasn't his fault either. He posted on the forum, quote, I had an argument on Facebook with some chick who apparently worked as a bartender and she used that position to get me banned. How about you take any fucking responsibility for any of your behavior?

Oh, no, apparently not. Because he even posted about the bans himself in 2012, writing, so there's one of the nightclubs is called Vanity and they had like an event page where they were posting about their upcoming events. And Tosti went on there and posted saying that he couldn't attend because the main bouncer out the front has something against him. No, I don't really think that's probably what it was, Tosti. Just look at the way you're conducting yourself. Like, obviously people have something against you.

You're a wanker, that's what it is. And all of this just screams of a wanker that's what it is and all of this just screams of a man who cannot take responsibility for his actions and it's been a running theme for tosti throughout his entire life after graduating him and two of his mates started making fake ids and it made them about thirty thousand dollars before they got caught in 2004 when police traced them back to tosti they were shocked to also find a perfect reproduction of a $50 bill on his computer. I wonder what he was going to do with that. And he had to plead guilty to charges of forgery and possessing a counterfeit instrument.

And for this, he should have served jail time, but he managed to escape that time as well. He wasn't given a conviction and he just had to do some community service and pay a bit of a fine. In his closing remarks, Judge Newton, the man who had overseen this trial, said, quote, he has extraordinary talents and that must be harnessed in such a manner to ensure that the product of his abilities are not illicit. Are you joking? That's literally like the judge at Bundy's trial being like, you know what? It is such a shame because you would have made a fantastic lawyer yep like it oh that turns my stomach and that is verbatim from the

court records like what the fuck is wrong with everyone I don't know I don't know like this is this is scaring me I don't want to leave my house anymore this is the world I'm stepping out into I'm staying inside I'm really sorry everyone everyone. We should have saved this for a Halloween episode. Oh, God. I'm so upset right now. I'm upset too. This is heavy for a Monday morning run. I know.

Right, where am I? I've completely lost my place because I'm so annoyed. Essentially. Right. So essentially, what this judge is saying, we don't need to ruin this privileged young boy's life. He's so smart. Forget about it.

We have to also do Brock Turner like very soon. Brock Turner is on the list. I think I need to like possibly go on some sort of meditation retreat before we take that one on. Or I might just like lose my fucking mind. Oh my God. Obviously, Tosti's family would have got him an incredibly good lawyer. And of course, I'm sure his social status wouldn't have hurt him. But the judge also listened to testimony from a doctor who diagnosed Tosti as having, quote,

a severe, unrelieved, compulsive disorder, social anxiety, and as an emotionally estranged person who could not establish a clear cut rapport with others. The same doctor thought that he had personality problems indicative of at least a partial expression of autistic spectrum disorder and i suppose that makes sense because if i mean maybe i'm wildly speaking out of turn here when a child is presented with autism what they are given is tools to get through the world they're given like tricks and games and like for example uh if a kid is finds eye contact very difficult they're always told to look in between a person's eyebrows because to the person looking at you, it looks like you're looking in their eyes, but you're not. So in a way, this sort of like pickup artistry type thing for Gable Toste may have been like a playbook of how to get through something he didn't really understand or like engage with on a particularly human level possibly not defending him obviously but maybe that is why he was attracted to it in that way i agree and we see from the whole counting numbers keeping track assessing his success rates all of this he's turning this into a into a process

into a procedure and by which he can judge his success i do this behavior this is the consequence this is how it it sort of plays out with that person. It is also perhaps fits into why he's recording dates to play them back and to learn from them, like you suggested last week. And it's also brought to the court's attention in this trial that Toste had been seeing a psychiatrist since 2009 for treatment for, quote, insecure social anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder and depression. I just want to make it clear at this point, all of this stuff that comes out at Tosti's trial, all of the stuff that he's been diagnosed with, that he's been treated for, the suspicions that these doctors have about his personality disorder or behaviours,

none of that excuses any of his behaviour. He shows totally no remorse for anything he's ever done. He shows no remorse for Marina Wright's death in any real or meaningful way. And he showed absolutely no remorse for her family or what he's put them through. So he's just a piece of shit. Like, let's be clear about that. And that wasn't all. Because in 2015, so before the case for Warina Wright even comes to trial,

he was jailed for six months after taking police on a drunken high-speed chase. So he's hardly keeping a low profile, is he? No, not at all. So he was driving 200 kilometres an hour with a blood alcohol reading of 0.2. That is fucking, like, four times the legal limit. That's outrageous. And finally, the police officers, because they just couldn't stop him, he just wasn't going to stop, they had to install road spikes to blow his tyres out so that they could actually get him to stop.

Again, screams of a man who does not give a shit about the consequences of his actions. Imagine if he'd have smashed into somebody else and killed them. He doesn't give a shit about anybody else or any of the consequences of his actions. So given all of this, given the kind of person that Tosti's been his entire life, and the fact that I think his parents know, I think it's now clear to see why his dad wasn't so shocked by the 3.30am phone call that he received. But I do think, I don't know, I think it probably would have been quite good if the jury had been privy to all of this information. And you can say that it would have just been character assassination, and perhaps it shouldn't have been included at trial because it wasn't directly linked to the case. But I don't think it's irrelevant.

No, it's like having a character witness, surely. Exactly. So you're allowed to have good character witnesses, but you're not allowed to have bits of information that completely show what sort of person you are if it's pointing in the other direction. Is that what it is? I don't know. So now, Gable Toste goes by the name Eric Thomas. He obviously had to change. This was an incredibly high-profile case.

And he spends his time on the internet campaigning for men's rights and taking part in eating competitions. And he spends all of his time on social media posting about screeching alpha fembots and the inequality of it all. He sat and like wrote this big thing about how if orina had been a man and he had been a woman and um you know this

had been the other way around that she wouldn't have been convicted of anything well you weren't fucking convicted of anything either it all like all of his behavior since the trial sounds like someone who was wrongly convicted of something that's what blows my mind about the whole thing. Like, you got away with it. Just go and live somewhere else and be quiet. It's the arrogance. It's the arrogance of him. It's madness.

That he's just like, oh, well, like, nothing would have happened to her. Nothing happened to you either, mate. So shut your mouth and just disappear. And she's dead. Exactly. She's dead. Exactly. And this fundamentally proves that he has no remorse for what happened

because he drags her name into this situation again and again, saying it had been the other way around that she would have got away with it. You fucking got away with it. What are you talking about? But if you think it ends there, it doesn't because Gable Tostley

slash Eric Thomas or whatever is now back on Tinder. And I'll post some of the pictures that I've seen of his Tinder account. I think someone in our Facebook group has come across him. I think that has happened. I think so too. I vaguely remember somebody posting that.

If it was you, please repost. We will also try to find some and repost because I've only seen the ones that the newspapers have gotten hold of. But if you personally found him, please post it. We would love to see what that looks like now. And honestly, I still stick with my description of hammy faced. but if you personally found him, please post it. We would love to see what that looks like now. And honestly, I still stick with my description of hammy-faced. That's what he looks like.

And he really is just a fucking troll in every way because his tagline on Twitter is, shh, don't tell Channel 9. On Twitter or on Tinder? On Tinder. Did I say Twitter? I meant Tinder. Fucking hell. We would absolutely love to say that nobody is swiping right nine on twitter or on tinder on tinder did i say twitter i meant tinder fucking hell we would absolutely love to say that nobody is swiping right on this absolute colossal bellend but he has apparently amassed a huge female following there is a woman who he was in a relationship with during the trial who wholeheartedly defends him and we'll leave a link to the video on youtube

of her doing so and it's odd to say the least so gable tosti is now out living his life as eric thomas but it's not all smooth sailing as of this year 2019 it seems that he may face an inquest and fresh charges into the death of warina wright but this would be dependent on compelling new evidence having come to light but investigations are ongoing um so let's see what happens and as always we will keep a hawk eye on it and let you know if something happens thanks guys you made it you made it through a two-parter on gable tosti well done everyone congratulations for you go and have an ice cream go and have a touch a dog really hot

shower touch a dog and then have an ice cream and treat yourselves because that was a lot i never ever want to read anything about gable tosti again unless there are fresh charges in which case we will be back with part three but until then next week is october the best month of all of the months holy fucking shit i can't believe that this year man has just like rocketed past and then it's so it's basically fucking christmas then we're going to have to do it all over again. All right, sour Sally, we fucking love it. I know, I'm sorry. No, but we are super excited about October because you know what October means.

It means it's just Halloween special. Back to back fucking scary cases plus the usual Halloween specials. Oh, and we've got a special surprise for our second halloween show so usually as you will know if you are avid listeners and friends of the show we usually do one week we do part one of the halloween special and then the next week we do part two but not anymore friends because we're both full-time so on the tuesday halloween is actually on the thursday this year on the tuesday the 29th which is my birthday. Of course it is. Yeah. Happy birthday. We will be releasing part one. And then on Thursday, on actual real life Halloween, we'll be releasing part two. And I

can't tell you what we're going to be doing with it yet, but it is quite exciting. So stay tuned for that. You can just hear the joy so that week of halloween you're getting two fucking episodes and not just two episodes four cases oh shit yeah right i just hope you're controlling yourselves right now with all the excitement but yes halloween is great it's hannah's birthday it's my birthday it's halloween all these halloween specials gonna be fucking great join us then and in the meantime you can come follow us on all the social medias at red handed the pod like i said we're gonna try dig up loads of pictures of gable tosti i refuse to call him eric thomas gable tosti is a way shitter name i'm gonna call him that and um you can tell me how

hammy face do you think he looks and also you can come over to the patreon which it's just looks so good these days all the content, Kazana and I are obviously full-time. We're doing the extra bonus episodes once a month on there for $10 and up Patreons. It's all very exciting. Here are some people that we would like to say a massive thank you to. Brittany Brown, Roshani Misra, Tracy Hart, Dawkable Sars, Jen McMorrow, Stephanie Ella Johnson, Janelle Anthony, Olivia Mazie, Brooke Miller, Elena Wells, Hamish Freeman, Stephanie King, Sarah Dixon, Chris Pauley, Stacey Lafreniere, Cassandra Baumgart, Danny Ensminger, Taylor Munich, Tay Solis, May Coyne, torres emily dodson sarah hawkins laura lauren okay lauren i

give up there you go uh madeline gentic katie jew emma mcleod leslie white julie mclaughlin emily carr krista vanderhyde l jackson danielle bellucci angela taramore t Tina Buick, Holly Douglas, Shannon Little, Alexa L. Doggett, Esther Hayes, Hadley Conn, Sam Isburn, sorry, Kay Diane Thompson, Carly Arena, Fiona Drury, Grace Burdick, Mai Tansky, Vic Summers, Melanie Garvey and Marco Martinez. Thank you so much for your support of the show and we will be back next week when we will have finished the tour and we will tell you all about it. We can't bloody wait. We'll see you guys then.

Bye. Bye. So, get this. The Ontario Liberals elected Bonnie Crombie as their new leader. Bonnie who? I just sent you her profile. Check out her place in the Hamptons. Huh. Fancy. She's a big carbon tax supporter, yeah? Oh yeah. Check out her record as mayor. Oh, get out of here. She even increased taxes in this economy.

Yeah. Higher taxes, carbon taxes. She sounds expensive. Bonnie Crombie and the Ontario Liberals. They just don't get it. That'll cost you. A message from the Ontario PC Party. I'm Jake Warren. And in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mom's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery Plus. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go.

A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance but it instantly moved me and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding and this time if all goes to plan we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify.