RedHanded - Episode 153 - Hillbilly Sex Ring: The Goler Clan

Episode Date: June 25, 2020

On Nova Scotia’s South Mountain, just a few miles away from the apple blossom fairs and prosperous farms of the Annapolis Valley, a despicable evil had gone unnoticed for generations. In 1984 Sandra Goler, a 14 year old girl, finally broke the silence when she revealed the true horror of her family’s predilection for incest, horrific abuse and torture. Sources: redhandedpodcast.com  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Saruti.

I'm Hannah. And welcome to Red Handed. Right, quick, quick, quick, because we've got a big one for you guys today. If you haven't voted, still, I don't know, what other... Just take a long look at yourself. Exactly. Is the only thing I've got to say about that. Take a long look at yourself and decide, is this the life you want to live?

Is this the person you want to be? Please, guys, just go give us a vote. Really simple. Link is in the episode description. Click vote, verify. And that's it really. Any news from you, Hannah? Nope. Excellent. Because today's story has been one of the hardest to research for me. Not just because there's very little information out there, but because what is out there is just so horrific. So thank you to everyone in the Facebook group who months and months and months ago pointed me in the direction of a fantastic book called On South Mountain. It's by journalists David Cruz and Alison Griffiths, and it is the main source of information

for today's episode. If you can get your hands on a copy, I would definitely suggest that you do. It's quite hard to find. I don't know if it's like out of print or what now, but I found one copy of it on Amazon UK from a secondhand seller. It arrived and the day I started the research, I opened it up and the first half of the book all of the pages fell out so I had to sit and like read them like separate flashcards which just made reading this hard horrific book even harder and more horrific but if you can find it go buy a copy

so yeah it's bad today guys like really bad definitely an absolutely no episode, especially as we get into the second half. I know some of you are going to ignore me and do that anyway, but you've been warned. Perverts. So really, this story is like deliverance meets wrong turn meets the hills have eyes. It's the story of how and why in the 1980s, an entire family, the Golla Clan, were found to have been living in squalor in the mountains of Nova Scotia, engaging in generations of incest, torture and child sexual abuse. And I think the worst thing, just to fully prepare you for what we're about to post into your ear holes,

it will be there forever, but I think the worst thing about it is nobody gave a single shit. That's the worst thing about it. Yep, exactly. There's the incest and all the rape and the child sexual abuse and then on the other side is the fact that no one gave a fuck.

Like, in the outside world. So yeah, prepare yourselves. Right. Shall we go? We've got to get through it sometime. On the 21st of January 1984, 14-year-old Sandra Goller was at school. She attended Wolfville High School in the Annapolis Valley in Nova Scotia, Canada. Sandra had never really enjoyed school. When she did turn up, she was usually withdrawn and sullen. The other kids teased her relentlessly.

She stood out like a sore thumb, with her greasy hair and her dirty clothes. But that day, there was something different about Sandra. When her teacher told her to leave the classroom and only come back in when she was ready to pay attention, that definitely happened to me multiple times, she spotted tears flowing down the young girl's face. The teacher was shocked. It wasn't like Sandra to show emotion like this. So she followed her outside. Sandra took one look at the teacher and blurted out,

quote, my father has been using me like a wife. The teacher was confused and it showed, so Sandra shouted, So the school called Children's Services. Dale Germain, a 30-year-old social worker, was summoned from the nearby town of Kentville. When she arrived, Dale found a shaking Sandra being awkwardly looked after by perplexed staff. Sandra told Dale that her father had been, and these are her words, screwing her since she was nine or ten. And it happened 15 to 20 times a month. That's what, five times a week? Yeah, that's like every other day at least. And also we go on to find out this is just her talking about William, her father. There are many other perpetrators involved. And actually, Sandra goes on to say that she didn't

know for sure how many times it actually happened. It had gone on for so long and happened so often in so many ways and in so many places that it was hard to tell the times apart. All she knew was that she didn't want to be used as his wife anymore. Of all the social workers who could have answered the call that day, it was a huge stroke of luck that it was Dale. Because Dale was an outsider. She was originally from Vancouver. She had only moved to the area recently and this was a blessing for Sandra. So what we need to understand before we move forward with this story is the deep, deep divide that existed in the area. The Annapolis Valley is in the western part of Nova Scotia

and it is a really beautiful part of the world. Its fertile soil makes it a very prosperous area. There are lush farms and sweeping vineyards and they have weekly farmers markets and they even have this annual apple blossom festival that seems very twee and very popular. It looks like it's been cancelled this year, but you get the idea. It's a very like nice country place to live and to bring up your family. People there are pretty well to do.

But in stark contrast, the valley's south mountain is a harsh and unforgiving land of granite on which little will grow. It's just a few miles outside of town, but it was worlds apart. And for those who lived there, it was a life of poverty, deprivation and isolation. The divide had started with the original European settlers to the region, and it had been built up over 200 years. It was deeply ingrained in the locals. So, to those in the valley, there was no one lower than those who lived on the mountain. So, being not from there, Dale didn't operate with the same prejudices of many of the other locals.

She'd often thought that it was weird when the other social workers had told her, when referring to the rural mountain folk, quote, no one knows what's going on up there and no one wants to know. And even if we ignored this divide that existed within this particular community, it was 1984. And up until pretty recently at that point, the mainstream view really was that children weren't really that credible. So their disclosures weren't always taken very seriously. But Dale was different. She was plugged into how things were changing. More and more cases of incest abuse were starting

to come to light. And Canada, like other nations, was coming to terms with what an epidemic this kind of thing really was. Dale knew the risk factors too for incest abuse and it fit Sandra and the story she was telling to the letter. Social isolation, no biological mother on the scene, a lower socioeconomic background and her age. Dale knew that she couldn't send Sandra home so she placed her in the care of Family and Children's Services and then called the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, or RCMP.

That was really hard for me to read and say at the same time. Good job, Hannah. Can't even read letters anymore. And again, luck struck because the two officers assigned to the case were Corporal Baxter Upshaw and Constable Ted Corkham. Corporal Upshaw was a rare officer in the area because he'd actually worked on an incest case just like this, only a couple of years before. So the next day, Dale took Sandra to Upshaw to be questioned.

She told her story again, this time throwing in, almost as if it was just a side note, that her father had been hoping to get her pregnant with his son. She confirmed that she lived in a house a few miles outside of the community of White Rock up on South Mountain. She told the officers that she lived there with her dad, his girlfriend, various aunts, uncles, grandparents, and crucially, with many other children. Sandra had two sisters, Donna who was 11 and Lisa who was 7, but they also had a load of cousins who regularly came and went. Upshaw knew

that now Sandra had disclosed all of this abuse, they were going to have to speak to her sisters urgently. But how could they get to them? How could they bring them in? Given everything Sandra had told him, Upshaw really didn't want to go up to the house and risk a confrontation. There were at least six adult men up there, all fully loaded with hunting rifles. So they decided to pick up the girls at school the following day. Meanwhile, back at the Gola home, things were not good. Sandra had been missing for two nights by this point and her father William

was furious. And it feels like a good point at this stage to introduce the rest of the Gola clan properly. They were what the people in the valley called mountain folk through and through. And I guess like they really are just the kind of ultimate quote-unquote hillbillies. They lived out on a barren ridge of South Mountain. There were other communities nearby, but few people lived quite as far out as this family did by the 80s. And the documentary I found on this case, and yes, there is really only one that I could find, just looks like it's from, like, the fucking 1800s.

It's just super old and there is only also one grainy picture of the house that I could find that was out there. So to really visualize what the Gola clan, Gola homestead looked like, we're going to have to use our collective imaginations as well as the description from the book on South Mountain. It was a tired and run-down house with a smaller house or room attached to the side. The windows were blank, there were no curtains. Bare light bulbs hung inside and the dull illumination from these highlighted just how dirty the glass in the windows was. Several rusted out cars and bicycles were parked randomly all over the front of the property. A broken fridge was glass in the windows was. Several rusted out cars and bicycles were parked randomly all

over the front of the property. A broken fridge was laying in the overgrown grass. It was on its back with the door wide open, covered in dirt and bird shit. By the side of the house there was an old wood stove and a dirty mattress tossed in the mud. There was rubbish everywhere and a few scrawny chickens scratched about in the dirt. Inside the main room was split into a living space, a makeshift kitchen and two bedrooms. The rooms were split up by plastic shower curtains. Okay yeah this uh everyone needs to pay attention because there are a lot of names coming up and some of them are memorable and some of them are not. Some of them are like how did you even come up with that name for your spawn and some of them are very not that so um i don't know maybe make a list

spider diagram get some flashcards together because um we don't have to baby you we're not going to pretend that this isn't happening. This is what happened. This is the story. So if anyone kicks up a fuss about how many people there are in this, look at yourself in the mirror again. Exactly. I will post a picture of the family tree from the book on social media. So be sure to follow us on Instagram or whatever if you want to take a look at it.

Maybe you can find it on the internet. I don't know. I've got the book. So I'll post a picture from that so here we go stella marie was the matriarch of the family and she and her husband charles had nine children in the main house lived stella marie and charles and three of their adult sons henry 37 cranswick 29 andil, 44. Living nearby on the mountain were Stella Marie and Charles' daughters, Marjorie, 43, Mary, 35, Stella Jr., 40, and Josephine, 32. Between them, these sisters had dozens of kids,

and they visited their family home so often, usually staying for weeks at a time, that they basically all lived there too, in this two-and-a-half-bedroom house. In the smaller house, the half-house, half-bedroom, so that's the one attached to the main property, lived 38-year-old William, and he is Stella and Charles's other son.

He lived there with his 25-year-old girlfriend, Wanda Whiston, and his three daughters from a previous relationship who we've already met, Sandra, Donna and Lisa. William Goller was illiterate. He had left school with a fifth grade education and teachers had described him as dull-witted and slow. But don't let this fool you. Although he wasn't the eldest or the biggest, William was very much the clan leader. He was the one who had successfully navigated the world of social assistance for the family. And this was vital because the Gola clan survived almost completely on welfare.

And so everyone in the family always deferred to William on all decisions. He was also known to be incredibly volatile and prone to physical outbursts. William decided everything and he had total control over all of the kids whether they were his or not and he took full advantage of this. William Goller and the other men sexually abused every single child within the clan. It didn't matter about gender or age or blood ties. They usually started the abuse around age five and it went from there. And Sandra had always been the hardest to keep in line. She had run off before. She had even told on William before.

Luckily for him, no one had believed her. But this latest disappearing act had him raging and donna who was just 11 was terrified she often loathed her sister sandra donna knew they all hated their lives but why was sandra always kicking up a fuss didn't she get it no one cared and whenever sandra did try one of her escape attempts, it was usually Donna and Lisa who had to pay the price. Like that is such classic control tactics. I'm not going to hurt you. I'm going to hurt the ones that you care about the most. And also to turn the sisters against each other and create some sort of like self-policing. So next time Sandra thinks about

going to reveal something at school Donna will stop her because she knows she'll also get a fucking beating for it once when Sandra had run away and been brought home by the cops even though she had told them what was going on at home William had slammed Sandra's fingers in the car boot Sandra goes and tells the police officers what's happening at home and they bring her home it must have felt so entirely hopeless because like she you know she's so young every adult in her life is abusing her beyond measure unlike the turpin children who didn't even know what the police were really most of them she knows that oh they're outside but i suppose because she was going to school she's like you know there is a world outside what is happening here and I can go to these authority figures and

they will help me and they didn't like that must have been soul crushing another time Sandra had told someone at school uh what was going on and a teacher had told William that she had been saying quote not nice things about him that's one way of putting it. Yeah, probably because he's been doing some not very nice things to his daughter. And that time, William's rage had been apoplectic. Donna had grabbed Lisa and hid behind the woodshed all night, hoping that he would just take his rage out on Sandra. Another time, Sandra had run off to their biological mum, Hazel's house.

That night, William had stuffed Donna in the narrow blazing hot space between the wood stove and the wall. Her skin had blistered from the heat. So Donna was scared. What would happen this time? The first night Sandra was gone, William was furious. But the second night, he was quiet. And this scared Donna even more. William had heard from some locals that there were a lot of police hanging around. And he didn't like the coincidence. That night, William told Donna and Lisa, quote, If you talk to the police, you know what will happen, don't you?

You will get taken away from your family and given to people far worse than me by those awful valley folk. They'll put me in jail and separate the two of you. And this separation was something Donna couldn't stand the thought of. She loved Lisa more than anything. The 11-year-old had practically raised her. The girl's mum had walked out on them when Lisa was just three months old. She had literally left the baby in Donna's arms and gone. In the book, Donna explains this as being that she puts the baby into her arms and then doesn't say a word and just walks outside

and she holds the baby thinking that she's going to come back. She never comes back. So the next day, Donna hastily got ready for school. Sandra was still gone, and she was worried that William would stop her and Lisa from going to school. Because Donna loved school. The kids didn't like her, but she didn't care. It was a respite from her home life, and she also adored her lessons. And I think the fact that William even ever allowed his kids to go to school was one of the things I was surprised about when I first read about this

case. But I think it's because I had fundamentally misunderstood the entire situation of this story before we started the research. Because if you compare it to something like the cult family incest clan that we did on patreon they were exposed because the kids didn't go to school and social services therefore kept turning up at the home and you know that's how they got caught essentially but william goller is too smart for this i feel like he's a man who hides in plain sight yes he sends his kids to school dirty and that, you could say, draws attention to them. But I think it's kind of like his thinking is, that's fine. Everyone in the valley already thinks that's how mountain folk are. And also, maybe this is a way in which

if the kids are going to school dirty, no one's questioning those welfare checks. Also, a thing to point out, again, because I totally had the wrong impression at first, the Gollers do not live out in the middle of nowhere. That is really, really important. I think when you first read about this case, when you first sort of come across it, it's really easy to think that they live up in like the densest fucking forest up on this mountain and nobody knows that they're there and nobody knows what's going on. That is not true. Yes, they choose to live in a run-down, isolated part of the area,

but it's so important to this story that we understand they were just a few miles outside of town. The school bus was fucking picking up the kids. They're not in the middle of nowhere. People knew that they were there, what condition the house was in and also what condition those kids were in it reminds me of the mother and baby home in tomb that like everyone knew no one cared exactly because they're mountain people and they deserve it and that's just the way that it goes precisely and i think it's like we talk a lot about the kind of less dead. These kids were the less living people. They were alive.

There were opportunities to help them and just nothing was done. Thankfully that day William didn't say a word as the girls hopped on the school bus. Once at school the principal approached Donna and he said that he needed her help with something. The police and children's services were waiting in his office. They took Donna and Lisa to the station in the nearby town of New Minas. Donna was furious and terrified. It was what William had told her they were going to separate them. She wrapped her arms around Lisa and screamed I hate you, don't touch my sister. The social workers and police managed to calm her down, promising that they just wanted to talk. And so the questioning began.

Dale was pleasantly surprised by the tenderness with which Upshaw and Corkham, nicknamed Blunt Jack, handled these interviews. Why isn't my name Blunt Jack? We can start calling you that. I think it's like people were used to these men dealing with adults, interviewing them, and that they're kind of like take no shit kind of guys. That was the reputation. And so I think the social workers were just really surprised by

how gentle they were with these kids. Yeah, I really maybe once I learn to take less shit, I will grow into I will evolve like a Pokemon into my final form of Blunt Jack. So right now you're like pointy Maguire, but the aim is to get you to being just blunt. Yeah, exactly. Pointy, wobbly, falling apart. But enough about me. Dale, the social worker, could tell that the officers really, really felt for these kids. The interviews went on for hours and hours and the two men would patiently take as many breaks as were needed, been the one to answer the call from the RCMP when Dale had phoned. Yes, because he had already dealt with an incest case. But also importantly is that these two police officers were from the town of New Minas,

which is, again, outside. It doesn't fall within that area where that kind of prejudice really, really lives. So again, these police officers were dealing with this in a more even-handed way than might have been the case had police officers from the valley dealt with this. And these interviews were obviously tough, especially with little Lisa. She was just seven years old, but intellectually, she was probably more at like a five-year-old's level. The police really needed Donna to open up, but she was hesitant. So Upshaw started slow, asking her simple questions about other things, not mentioning William at all.

And after an hour of questioning, Donna finally sighed and told the police, quote, he done me too. I don't want him doing Lisa no more. And this was just the beginning of the revelations that Donna would give. But she never said anything without thinking about it carefully first. She's not just sat there sort of blurting things out. She would even sometimes ask the police officers when they asked her something, what will happen if I tell you such and such? She's smart and she's clearly scared,

but her answers revealed the horrifying truth about the level of abuse and deprivation that had been going on up at the Gola home. Dale and Upshaw were aghast. How could this have happened? The kids were known to social services. The family were collecting welfare and disability. The kids were seen by doctors.

They even came to school. There's no other word for it. I feel like when you're talking about this kind of thing, various organizations, institutions, people on the front line failing these kids, what other word for it is than it just feels like institutional neglect. I just feel like no one cared and no one even cared to care I also think there might have been an aspect of oh god if we start pulling at that thread we're all going to

be up there all the time it's much easier I think if we sort of look at it from the sort of social divide situation of the people in the valley and the people on the mountain it was probably an easier life to just stick with the people in the valley. Yeah and the kids were going to have to pay the price for it while all these people felt like they couldn't be bothered to open that particular can of worms. And just like her sister Sandra Donna also told the police that the other Gola children were also being abused. For now, Upshaw had everything he needed, and on January 23, 1984, he and Corkham headed up to the mountain. They were worried about what awaited them, but to their surprise, William opened the door and greeted them with a cheery smile,

inviting them in like they were old mates. Upshaw and Corkham went in and they were shocked by what they saw. Nine adults sat in the tiny living room of the main house. There was no indoor plumbing and a smell of sewer-y decay hung in the air while countless flies buzzed past their ears. Literally Texas Chainsaw Massacre. It gets even more Texas Chainsaw Massacre as we keep going. It's horrific.

And, like, also, we're not here to sort of like, I don't know, I don't want it to come across like we're poverty shaming people. These people were poor. But like, you'll see later on, they make active decisions to clean up the house and to fix things up when they're under scrutiny and when the spotlight is on them. They choose to live like this. The adults choose to live like this and subjugate those children to this kind of environment. The rotten floorboards sagged beneath them. The men wanted out of there as quickly as humanly possible,

so they arrested William and again, to their surprise, he came quietly. During questioning, William was strangely complacent, even smug. It was as if he thought nothing was actually going to happen to him. Even when the officers informed him that his daughters had told them everything, William barely flinched. He just sat there and said that he was baffled by their stories. He suggested that perhaps something had happened to them when they had gone to visit their mother because, quote, she always had a lot of dodgy men hanging around.

But William, for as smart as he thought he was, had made a huge mistake. He thought that this was all going to come down to a fight between him and his eldest, Sandra. She was the one who was always running away and running her mouth. He thought that he just needed to deliver one glance at Donna and Lisa and they would take back every word they'd said. Then it would just be his word against Sandra's and who was going to believe her? But William was wrong. Sandra might have been the brave one, being the first to tell, but Donna was the smartest of all the gollers. As the questioning had gone on with police, Sandra was faltering, and she became less and less communicative.

It was almost like her role had just been to send out the flare. And under the stress of it all, though, Sandra had just withdrawn. And seeing this, Upshaw had realised quickly that Donna was the key. But it was hard for Donna. She hated how the police and social workers picked at her life. Exposing everything. It was humiliating. The Gollers, as awful as they were, they were her family after all. And they were all that she had. The only experience Donna had had of the outside world had been going to school. And at school, she was used to being looked down upon,

knowing that she was poor and shabby and out of place. But slowly, day by day, things changed. Lisa and Donna were placed in a temporary foster home, and this experience was life-changing for them. They went to bed every night with full stomachs, and they were given fresh, new clothes. The house was clean and warm, and there were flushing toilets and even a bath.

Back home, Donna would retch when she used the disgusting outhouse. And when it got bad enough that even the adults couldn't stand it, it was always her and the other kids who had to clean it out that makes me think of that bit in slumdog millionaire yeah do you know what i'm talking about i'm really into dev patel at the moment can't get enough have you watched lion no i haven't because of what you said about it is they've just put it on netflix netflix have just done a huge dump of like really watchable shit. And I saw it come up and I was like, love you, Dev.

But like, I don't know. Just prepare to spend like six hours crying. I've been doing enough of that recently. I don't need prompting. It's like people keep telling me to watch normal people. And they're like, oh, it'll just make you feel every emotion you've ever felt. And I was like, no, I need less of that right now. Actually, I don't actually want to feel anything.

I would quite like to sit in a little glass box like fucking Robert Maudsley when no one can get to me. Someone get Pointy McGuire a fucking Perspex box to hide from the world. No, you're right. I just I have no interest in that. Absolutely no interest in that whatsoever. And I was forced into watching Lion. Of my own choice, I never would have watched it. It is a very good film.

I would recommend it. But after this case, I think I need a break from all the kid sadness, to be honest. Go and watch SpongeBob SquarePants. I will. Or Hell's Kitchen. I also find that very therapeutic. I love a good formulaic show, you know, like the Hotel Inspector or something like that, where you know exactly what's going to happen.

It's going to be the same thing every time. Just really enjoy that. I find it very comforting. Have you seen that episode of Hell's Kitchen where they're like cooking calamari and Gordon Ramsay's like, this squid is so raw, I can hear it telling SpongeBob to fuck off. Oh my God. I told my mum that and she was hysterically laughing for about 15 minutes. That's amazing. Listen to fucking Gordon Ramsay with the relevant jokes. Is SpongeBob SquarePants relevant?

I don't know. Relevant to me. If SpongeBob SquarePants isn't relevant, I don't want to live anymore. I wonder when SpongeBob Square... It used to be a Nickelodeon show didn't it? Yeah. I think. I think it's quite old. Mmm. Yes. Anyway. Questions, questions. Right. We're going to leave

SpongeBob in Bikini Bottom and move on. So the new life for Donna and Lisa was the polar opposite of where they had been before. Donna and Lisa even went to their first restaurant and were told to order anything they liked. And Donna couldn't believe that a life like this was possible.

And there was something else too. Corporal Baxter Upshaw. He was a man of authority. And he sat there, praising and respecting Donna for her intelligence. It gave Donna a strange feeling that she'd never felt before pride Donna was far more used to just getting a smack across the mouth for being smart not a smile and words of encouragement from someone who mattered so ultimately

it came down to a fight between William Goller feared and revered king of the clan and his three foot eleven, 11-inch daughter. And William had no idea how motivated she was. Because Donna had decided she was never going back to her old life, one in which she was raped on a daily basis and constantly hungry and scared and dirty. And crucially, she was never letting Lisa go back to that either.

Donna told Upshaw a lot, but not everything. She couldn't. It was too much. And Upshaw knew that there were things that she was holding back. But Donna made it crystal clear that at one point or another, she had seen every adult in that place, man or woman, sexually abuse one of the children. And so, one by one, all of the children linked to the Gola clan were spirited away to secret homes and foster families

and brought to the police station as needed for interviews. But questioning the kids was hard. They had very poor language skills. Many seemed extremely developmentally delayed. Most had poor hygiene and some of the kids didn't even seem sure that something bad had even been happening to them. And at first, the police and social workers could barely figure out how everyone was even connected. It was a complete mess of a family.

In all, they identified 74 women, men and children who were involved. And everyone seemed to be abusing everyone else. The wives and girlfriends were passed around by the men. Children as young as five were being abused. And as for the abuse itself, anything went. But it seemed clear that the Golan men and women had a preference for oral and anal sex. Foursomes were also a regular thing. And this is where I feel like it gets really Texas Chainsaw Massacre-y again. Because Kranzwick, who people called Kranz,

enjoyed bringing Cecil, his older brother, who was severely disabled, in on the action too. Kranzwick would push Cecil's wheelchair into the bedroom so that he could watch him, quote, doing a child. Cecil couldn't talk, but he'd give out enthusiastic grunts and groans of approval. I mean, it's just so horrific.

Just the worst. And as if this wasn't enough, the children were regularly beaten by the adults. And they were threatened with more violence if they ever spoke out. Or if they weren't enthusiastic enough about the rapes. After a couple of weeks of questioning, the police finally had enough to arrest the rest of the adults too. It was clear that every adult was either abusing the kids or they knew exactly what was happening and did nothing to stop it. The walls of this house were literal shower curtains. There is no way anyone in that place could have believably claimed ignorance. And so, on Valentine's Day 1984,

the police simultaneously brought them all in. Cranswick, who was a big bear of a man, had been described by all of the kids as being the most violent of all the offenders. But he seemed pretty upbeat and jovial even at the station, and almost immediately during his first interview, Cranswick blurted out everything. He was incredibly open and detailed about the abuse he'd carried out

and he went into graphic detail as well. But he added that it wasn't actually his fault. The kids were willing and eager participants. They were nymphomaniacs, little tempters and temptresses and they had seduced him. Imagine that thought being in your brain. And then equally, imagine being able to speak to other adult men and convince them of your point of view,

like it's a fucking, like, Republican versus Democrat debate. It's so difficult because, yes, when you read the book, you're not getting a real feeling of these people. You're like, does he really know what he was doing was wrong does he really believe what he's saying or is he playing up to that part because he knows he's fucked and he's like well they already think us mountain folk are backward fucking hicks so maybe I should just pretend is he that smart I don't know when you watch that documentary which I will link below like I said it is very hard to watch I don't know it's really hard to know but also I mean I sort of I'm talking about it like it's a really unbelievable uh thing to say but you know there've been for example a friend of mine

uh who's from Arizona it's from quite a religious family she was in church and was bending down to pick up her much younger brother. And she was like 14 at the time. And a man sitting behind her, like got caught by his wife looking at her underwear as it sort of came up out of her jeans. And she was punished for it and called a temptress and nothing happened to the man. No, you're totally right. And I feel like in society, this is actually, we see it to different levels. It's like on a spectrum, but that victim blaming mentality isn't so far from reality or from what we see all the time. So I just think that opinion exists in many forms and it is excused. It is used against people, children, women, often. What I'm saying is I can see why he thought he might be able to get away with that. Yeah.

And big old Big Bear Kranz was not the only one. Many of the other men, except, of course, William, who just kept his mouth firmly shut, said the same thing. They just said that the kids had wanted it and asked, quote, What can you do when they come on to you? Nothing. Nothing. Not fucking rape them. How about that? Oh, my God. Cranswick seemed to see little wrong with what he'd been doing. He told the police, quote, I had tried the smaller kids as young as five but they were all too small but the kids never hollered or cried i never forced them i'm not that kind of guy what kind

of guy are you then perhaps even more disturbing than what he told the police was that kranzwick seemed to be having fun during these interrogations he was giggling the entire time he spoke. Imagine how fucking sinister and eerie that would be to you as the, like, investigator or the detective. Yeah. This man is telling you these horrific things that he's done to these kids and he's giggling while he's doing it. Yeah, he's not doing wonders for the PR of the mountain people, is he? No.

But I wonder how much of it is like, we'll just lean into that. Yeah. We'll go with it. But over the next week, investigators placed 170 sexually related charges, ranging from sexual assault to incest and buggery, against seven people in the Gola family, including three brothers, two sisters,

and two teenage boys. The charges were a catalogue of sick taboos. including three brothers, two sisters and two teenage boys. The charges were a catalogue of sick taboos. Fathers with daughters and nieces, brothers with sisters, uncles with nieces and nephews and grown men and women with whatever child they could get access to. Eight other adults outside of the Gullah clan were also charged. These were the neighbours that had paid William to be able to rape the kids. Because yeah, it wasn't just a family affair. He was also exporting the kids

to other people. I don't know what to say. Like, he just has zero, zero feeling towards these children. They are just objects. That is the clearest thing. So with the kids now safely in secret homes and believing that the family were at low flight risk, the adults were all granted bail. And at the first post-bail Gola family meeting, William totally fucking lost it. He was livid because he was the only one who had kept his mouth shut. What the fuck were the rest of them thinking, telling the police everything? Basically, like we said, most of the men had admitted to it all, seeming not to have understood what that would mean for them. Those who hadn't confessed had tried the self-preservation route. They had blamed the

others and claimed to be innocent. But in the rush to protect themselves, they too had let all sorts slip. So, get this. The Ontario Liberals elected Bonnie Crombie as their new leader. Bonnie who? I just sent you her profile. Her first act as leader, asking donors for a million bucks for her salary.

That's excessive. She's a big carbon tax supporter. Oh yeah. Check out her carbon tax supporter. Oh, yeah. Check out her record as mayor. Oh, get out of here. She even increased taxes in this economy. Yeah. Higher taxes, carbon taxes. She sounds expensive. Bonnie Crombie and the Ontario Liberals. They just don't get it. That'll cost you. A message from the Ontario PC Party. I'm Jake Warren. And in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life.

You can listen to Finding Natasha right now, exclusively on Wondery+. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part, Three years ago today, that I a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go.

A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding, and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to light some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history.

Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all So William went into damage control mode. They had to beat the charges, and they had to get those kids back. He got everyone to clean themselves up, dig out any formal clothes they had,

and paint and fix up the house. He even started going to church. The Gollers were Baptists, but as far as anyone could remember, they'd never actually been to church. But with the trial looming, William had to show that he was a good man, and he even joined a special discipleship programme and said that he was undergoing a quote

spiritual transformation. I think you might need a little bit more than that, my friend. This spiritual transformation seemed to involve him reciting the Bible without ever admitting to much less taking responsibility for or repenting for what he had done. But he was sure to take plenty of pictures of himself at church and really cut down on his swearing. That's what God cares about most, after all. Yep. Yep. I mean, William is the PR spin king. He is the Malcolm Tucker of the Gullah clan.

Like, he understands about perception. And this is what I mean. Like once he knew the spotlight was on them for this, he fixes up the house. He tries to clean things up. He knows what it all looks like. I don't know. I feel like he really plays up to the mountain folk, like prejudices that the people in the valley have for him. And he uses it as like a cloak with which to do whatever he wants under. And after his spiritual transformation and, you know, sticking a bit of paint on the house, William was so sure that he would beat the charges that unlike some of the other adults who pleaded guilty,

William and Wanda went with not guilty. Apparently their legal aid lawyers were pretty fucking shocked to say the least. I think they were just like right this isn't actually going to go to trial they'll plead guilty we'll just get through this try not to get them a bazillion years in prison. But no no they wanted a trial and this meant that the kids were going to be forced to testify. In April 1984 Sandra was the first to take the stand. She walked into the courtroom, clean, wearing brand new clothes and with an air of confidence about her.

She totally avoided looking at her father as he tried to intimidate her with menacing looks. But Sandra stared ahead and calmly gave graphic detail of how her father William and her uncles and her cousins and Wanda, and a random assortment of other men, had raped her on a daily basis for years. One by one, the kids came in to give evidence. But despite all the preparation that had been done, some of them just couldn't handle it. The kids couldn't always remember exact dates or times or even what had happened.

And this was the only thing the defence had. They needed to try and undermine the children. But it would be tricky if they were too tough. That wasn't going to look good. What they needed were inconsistencies, and unfortunately, these came thick and fast. The children were so traumatised. Most of them were also functionally illiterate,

and they had almost no exposure to the outside world. Their abuse had been going on since as long as they could remember at the hands of almost every adult they knew. And I felt like when I was reading this and then, you know, people pointing out the inconsistencies or talking about that, I'm like, imagine trying to accurately and consistently describe every single sandwich you've ever eaten in your life. And I'm like, imagine trying to accurately and consistently describe every single sandwich you've ever eaten in your life. And I'm not trying to minimize the horror of what happened to these kids. I'm just trying to say that it was something that became so normalized. It became a part of their everyday lives. The abuse was so frequent. The kids just couldn't separate each incident from the

other or give clear details because it was just going on all of the fucking time. Upshaw and the prosecutor both knew that it was all going to come down to 11-year-old Donna. She walked in looking tiny, clutching a cabbage patch doll. The prosecutor began his questioning and Donna made the huge mistake of looking at her father. William mouthed, I'm going to kill you. Donna froze and began crying. She shouted at the court, I can't do it. I know he's guilty. Everyone must know. We're going into this too much. I can't do it. This was a nightmare for the prosecution. Donna was the most reliable witness. Not only had she experienced much of the abuse. Donna was the most reliable witness. Not only had she experienced much of the abuse, she was able to explain it in the best detail with dates and everything, but she'd also witnessed far more than any of the other kids had individually.

So she could corroborate other stories and provide more details. And the reason she had witnessed so much more of the abuse than some of the other kids was because Donna really took a kind of maternal role, even though she's the middle girl. She takes a maternal role in the family, especially with Lisa. So she says, there was nothing I could do to stop my father or my uncles or my cousins or Wanda raping Lisa. But what she would do is she would sit outside of the room it was happening in and she would not, it's not a sick thing, she would watch it or she would listen and then as soon as they were done, she said as soon as Lisa's agony was over, I would rush in to comfort her. So this is why, because she seeks out when these abuses are happening because she wants to protect these kids.

The prosecution asked for a recess and while the social workers all tried to calm Donna down, Upshaw just said, it's up to you Donna, but you have to decide. So Donna composed herself. She knew that if she didn't speak, she and the others would end up back on the mountain and then her dad really would kill her. When Donna went back in, as she was questioned again, she automatically went to look at William, but the prosecutor caught her and said, look at me. And so Donna began her testimony. She told the court about the multiple times

the very week before the Gola adults had been arrested how she and Sandra and Lisa had all been raped repeatedly by William and Cranswick. She told them how the men would grab them anywhere at any time and there was no point fighting it. She told them how Wanda liked to exert her power over them by forcing the other kids to watch as she raped the girls. She also knew that Wanda raped the boys behind closed doors and that William would often watch.

Afterwards, he'd beat the shit out of the boy. Donna told the court how the adults would all egg on and watch her male teenage cousins abusing the younger children. She explained to the court all about the physical abuse and the mental games. Donna told them about the mailbox game. This was something William liked to play when the whole clan got together. He'd make the kids line up and race to the mailbox. The first one there would be given one day free of any sexual abuse.

Donna also spoke about William's dog. It was a huge animal named Sheba. She explained that she was terrified of it, not only because William had trained the dog to chase the kids whilst gnashing its giant teeth and growling, but because he'd once allowed the dog to mount Sandra while the other men watched and laughed. It's pretty sick shit. Imagine hearing those words coming from an

11-year-old girl's mouth as she stood in the dock holding a cabbage patch doll. And when she was done, Donna was exhausted. She had never stood up to her father like that. Even minor deviations from what he had wanted would normally lead to extreme violence. William had spent Donna's entire life telling her, with his fists and other parts of his body, that he was in total control. The way he dominated not just the kids, but the other men of the clan. Donna had always thought that he was just the most powerful man in the world. But slowly, a new emotion, hate, was replacing her fear.

There wasn't much to William's testimony. When he took the stand, he acted like a nervous, intimidated, God-fearing man. He said he barely saw his nieces and nephews and that he had a close relationship with his kids. They were happy and he had no idea why they were saying all of these things. Cranswick, on the other hand, stuck to his story of the kids wanting it. He even claimed that the kids had actually hurt him in their eagerness to seduce him.

And just like during his police interviews, Cranswick smiled and giggled all the way through his testimony. When asked if he took his clothes off to have sex with the kids, he said, quote, no, just undid my zipper i got manners about myself oh god i know we cover a lot of fucking sick shit on this but like i'm really struggling to like understand that this actually happened yeah and not like

in the fucking i don't know 1910s it was 1984 this trial was taking place so a key part of this trial like we kind of briefly touched upon earlier was did these people know what they were doing was wrong they all had their IQs tested so all of the siblings um had their IQs tested and not one of them had scored past 72. William in fact had just scored 56 and while IQ is not necessarily a strong indicator of intelligence not by a long shot it did seem that there were a lot of issues intellectually speaking amongst the clan. But does this negate them of what they did in the documentary that we keep referring to there is a particular line that made me go because they say quote it had been a way of life for these people for generations and i don't know i just really what the fucked at that and then they even

had a pediatrician a man named dr john Anderson, testify for the defence saying, quote, when you've got a mum and a dad and two girls sleeping together because of overcrowding, sexual things will happen. What the fuck? I don't know. It's like he's making a link between poverty and inevitable incest and child sexual abuse. There is something wrong with somebody who is doing this kind of thing. It's not just, oh, well, we're all sharing a bed. It was just bound to happen. No, no.

It's like when there was that sort of military rape case and Donald Trump was like, oh, well, if you put men and women together, it's going to happen. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. So basically, it's like the defence is saying that none of them knew what they were doing was wrong. And yes, Kranswick did admit to it all. But William had certainly tried very hard to keep it all quiet. And also, if you remember, the girls testified to the fact that most of the adults, including Cranswick, would threaten them with violence to stay silent, or sometimes even bribe them with sweets or toys. Why would you do that if you really thought that the kids wanted it, or if you really thought that what you were doing wasn't wrong? Also, a psychiatrist who assessed

William said that he was no dullard. He knew exactly what he was doing and how to play people and the system like a violin. In the end, Judge Don Hall said that he was satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that they all knew what they were doing was wrong, but added that he did not think that they viewed their actions with as much revulsion as the rest of society. He praised the children for their bravery, even pushing away claims that the children were, quote, dim-witted, saying that he found them credible

and he could tell that they were trying their best, to be honest. And in his closing statement, he even said of Donna, she was as solid as the granite of South Mountain. I think Judge Don Hall might have a little bit of a poetry notebook that he might keep next to his bed. I know. I like Judge Don Hall. William still denied everything and claimed that he was being persecuted because he was from the mountain. All of them were convicted, but infuriatingly only for a fraction of the original 170 charges. Once the first convictions were made, the prosecution seemed to give up, and ultimately,

William Goller was sentenced to just seven years. Wanda was given just four, and when they were both out, they just reunited and went right back up the mountain. The younger teenage boys who had gone from prey to predators, were given just a couple of years between them, with the court saying that they too had been victims once. Cranswick, for all of his crimes, was given a little bit over three years in total. And when he was out, he too went back to the mountain to live with William, Wanda and his mum.

Josephine and Mary Goller, who were Stella and Charles's daughters who lived nearby on the mountain but were basically always at the Goller home, were given just 12 months and 10 months each respectively for sexually assaulting their sons, Matt and Jeff. Matt, who was Josephine's son, was actually adopted out by a nice Christian

family before the trial even began. And it was actually them who had convinced him to go and testify against his biological mum for what she had done to him. But after Josephine got out, Matt suddenly took back everything he had said in court, left his adoptive family behind, who by all accounts seemed to have been a really lovely couple, and now regularly visits Josephine in her home on the mountains. The police were furious. It was months and months of work that was being abandoned by failing to push for all of those other charges. It was especially enraging when you consider that those 170 that were originally placed on these people were just the tip of the iceberg anyway.

Basically, what had happened was that the court decided to lump together all of these charges. So the offenders were only charged once for each act, regardless of how many times they'd actually done it or to how many children. With the preliminary hearings, trials, sentencing and appeals, it all dragged on until mid-1985. The police may have been angry, but Donna was done. She was now just looking forward to a new life with a nice family, and of course, with her sister Lisa. For a while after the trials had

finished, Donna and Lisa were bounced around her sister Lisa. For a while after the trials had finished, Donna and Lisa were bounced around between foster homes. Finding a family to adopt one child, especially when they're not a baby, is difficult, let alone two together. The social workers said that they were trying, but one day Donna was told by her foster mother that Lisa was gone. Just like that.

She had been adopted by a nice couple in Halifax. Lisa's adoptive mum was a doctor and her dad an officer in the army. They were perfect. Donna was horrified, especially when she found out soon after the adoption that the family had moved even further away to Ottawa. But after a year, the family decided that Lisa was more than they could handle. Lisa was extremely traumatized and they just weren't ready or able to take care of her. So they returned her like a sock and Lisa went back into foster care. After this, she and Donna barely saw each other. Donna tried to rekindle their relationship when they were both adults, but Lisa seemed hardly to remember her

sister. So Lisa went from bad relationship to bad relationship and her life seems to have just become one long heartbreak. Sandra also spent the rest of her childhood in foster care and then stayed in the valley and had two children of her own. After William got out of prison, Sandra actually tried to fix her relationship with him and the rest of the clan but they all rejected her As for the other kids, some of them were adopted but most of them stayed in foster care

Some ran far from the mountain but some were still drawn back there never fully emerging out of the shadow of South Mountain And as for Donna, it's just the worst. She really, really fucking tried. But Donna found it hard in foster care, and at just 15 she was thrown out by her foster mum. She was constantly pushed to have counselling, but Donna didn't trust the system anymore, not after they had taken Lisa from her. So Donna changed her name and bounced from place to place,

job to job, and violent man to violent man. She became a single parent at 21, reporting the baby's father for rape. Things were hard for a long time, but then at last she met a nice man and they had another baby together. They got engaged and she even got a job in a nursing home. But her ex couldn't let her be happy and out of the blue, he applied for custody of her first child. His custody battle was being paid for by her old foster mother, who just seems to have an absolute vendetta against Donna for some reason. She even called her work and told them who Donna was. She was the incest rape kid from the notorious hillbilly sex ring in the 80s.

How has that woman been allowed to foster children? Just, like, fuck you. Fuck off. Like, you haven't even had this girl in your house since she was 15. Why are you making this your fucking mission in life? It is the weirdest thing. After a painful battle, the court decided that Donna was an unfit mother, with the judge saying, quote, while I am reluctant to make you responsible for what happened to you as a child, this child's welfare must come first.

And with that, full custody was given to Donna's ex, and she was told that she wouldn't get her son back if she didn't get counselling. So Donna was going to have to confront her past, something she had spent the last decade avoiding. And the judge wanted her to do it his way, in Donna's mind, the nice, polite, middle-class way of 50-minute weekly sessions with a counsellor. But she decided that she would do it her way. She would go back to South Mountain, and it was going to be a trip of closure for Donna. She had some people that she needed to deal with.

Her first stop was to visit an old family doctor who had ignored her plight. So Donna got hold of her medical records before visiting him, and so she made him listen as she sat in his house and read out a list of 17 hospital visits by the age of two for things like a high temperature, bleeding rashes, nine instances of bronchitis, severe mouth sores, malnutrition, worms, fleas, pustules on her face and seizures. Donna demanded to know how he could say he didn't have a clue what was going on. The doctor failed to provide a satisfactory answer, but Donna left feeling better after

seeing a passing moment of shame cross his face. Donna also sought out and thanked a kind man from a church in the valley who'd periodically dropped clothes and shoes off at the Goller house when she was a child. The man cried, saying no one had ever thanked him before. Donna's next and final stop was her father's house. She pulled up outside the house, took out her camera and started snapping pictures of William in the garden. When he saw her, he came running. She put up her middle finger and drove off as fast as she could. For a moment, Donna grinned with joy. But as she was driving away, she spotted something that made her sick. There were kids' toys outside the house. Four weeks after Donna's visit, William and Cranswick were arrested and charged with two counts of sexual assault of a

young child. Donna went on to become an outspoken activist for stricter child abuse laws and for the stronger protection of children from convicted child molesters in Canada. We couldn't find out much more about how Donna is these days, but wherever she is, I hope that she's happy. And we wanted to end this episode by discussing something that I found really odd about this whole case. I've obviously alluded to it during this entire episode, but it's just been so chronically

undercovered by the media and I don't understand why it has such little coverage like there's nothing it's because they don't care like I think that's that's what I keep coming back to is that there's no coverage on it because people don't want to read about mountain children that they've been ignoring for decades and also because like as we said at the top of the show they weren't out in the middle of nowhere they weren't in a desert they weren't living in the rocks like the Mormons they were just outside of town so covering it would force people to confront the fact that they ignored it exactly because they didn't need to geographically isolate themselves because the prejudice did that for them. Like that created this vast engulfing

desert that separated these kids in this family from the rest of society in this area. And I don't know, maybe some people might be like, maybe it's just a bit too much. Maybe they were just being prudish. But I don't think so. Before the Gola case surfaced, there had been another man in the valley who had apparently flashed a local nine-year-old boy. And this was met with massive hysteria. With some even calling for this culprit to be chemically castrated. But when it came to the Gola kids, there was very little outcry. These kids had been raped in

every which way for years and years all as we said living just a few miles from the valley but they may as well have been living on another fucking planet for all anyone cared and as unpalatable as it may sound as much as you may not want to believe that these people just didn't do anything because they didn't care and that somehow they just didn't know. Well, I really think that a lawyer for one of the accused within the Goller family summed up the general public's feelings towards this whole case perfectly when he said the following. What you have to understand is that these weren't kids like yours or mine. You have to realise that these kids grew up expecting that kind of abuse. Maybe they got used to it. It wouldn't have had the same impact as grabbing

a kid off the street and doing those things. This was just their life. It's like the only way, obviously the defence had, I mean, I was just about to say the defence had a hard job fight, but actually they did a pretty fucking good job because they got like basically fuck all time for what they did and i know it's the 80s but you know it's not a million years ago that that argument that these children are just actually a bit subhuman and we shouldn't be that bothered about them worked to a certain extent absolutely and i think obviously there is a lot of conversation at the moment in the wider world about prejudices and creating an underclass of people based on the color of their skin. Here, what we see is that that is also true when we're creating underclasses of people based on economic reasons. these kids to be ignored was because of what people thought about families like theirs. And as we saw, William weaponized this kind of prejudice and used it as a way to do what he was doing and keep people away from him. It is one of the most insidious and dark cases that I've

certainly felt I've dug this deep into. And yeah, I'm just really glad it's done. I want to get this edit done as quickly as possible. And then I never want to think about this case again. But I think I always will. It's just heartbreaking. It just made me really, really sad that this kind of thing can happen and does happen. And it is probably happening right now. So yeah, there you go, guys. I hope everybody's feeling great today after that.

Yeah, go forth and stay two meters away. Yeah, exactly. And I was going to say, maybe you can come be cheered up by listening to Under the Duvet. But I kind of want to talk about the whole Danny Masterson Scientology rape charges. So I don't know if that's going to cheer you up, but it might be interesting. So if you want to listen to that, come have a chat with us. Come have a chat with us. What the fuck am I on about?

I'll think of something fun to say i'll come up with another weird word for a punctuation mark or something maybe i'll tell a story about a snail that finds a flower exactly under a tree who knows and then everything was completely fine forever although i fucking was watching i'm a bit obsessed with shark tank richard branson pops up now and again in it now and uh there was a guy who went on shark tank and i think this season came out about two years ago and he was running some sort of like science cdna something something but he opened his pitch being like oh i want a hundred thousand dollars for like you know fucking 12.5. He was like, experts say the world is expecting another global pandemic

that will devastate humanity. That was like two years ago. Madness. I mean, they knew. They fucking knew this was going to come. And if they didn't, they're stupid. But anyway, there was a woman. I will try to find it and I'll share it with you.

And if it's as funny as I remember, we'll share it it with everybody but there was a woman who made like a YouTube video about telling past me about life under pandemic and I was like this is hilarious but um oh I also do want to talk about in under the duvet this new reality show that's starting I read I haven't watched it I just read a guardian article about it. It's called Labour of Love. And it's basically like The Bachelor, except they're not fighting to get married to her. They're fighting to be like a sperm donor. What? Yeah. So we'll talk about that in Under the Duvet. Save it for then. And yes, thank you guys guys if you haven't yet still by now voted please go do that link is in the episode description below if it's not working it is britishpodcastawards.com slash vote some people having issues getting the confirmation email through guys i don't know just

do it again until you do um sabotage i don't know. But other than that, thank you, thank you, thank you to all of our lovely patrons, of which we have got plenty to say thank you to now. So, thank you, Ellen Witten, Melanie Flynn, Blake Newworth,

Nikita, Patricia Robertson, Jasmine Zosea Jovette, Belinda Kolanek, Kolanek, yep. Thank you. Annette Blackwell, Victor Garcia, Jessica Sykes, Teresa Brewer, Beth Tousey, Nicola Rothwell, Dorothy Holly Spence, Tracy Lawrence, Rebecca Owens, Charlotte Montgomery, Sandra Cooper, Anna Ran... Okay, go. I'll tag it. I'm good at the Icelandic ones.

Anna Ragdon Hilda Carl's daughter. You welcome. It's just because of my CrossFit obsession. But he's stepped down now, that guy. Oh. Fuck him. No, no, no. He said bad things about George Floyd.

He started that, like, fucking I can't breathe workout or some shit. So, yeah, fuck him. Fuck CrossFit. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Reebok pulled out now from sponsoring the CrossFit Games. Anyway, you physically couldn't pay me to actually engage in CrossFit. I just really like the documentary. Oh, also, in under the duvet, we need to talk about Dominic Raab

and his fucking latest shit show of a comment. Honestly, mate. Why is world? That is just basically all I keep coming back to. we need to talk about Dominic Raab and his fucking latest shit show of a comment. Honestly, mate. Why is world? That is just basically all I keep coming back to. I don't know. And it's like I said in the group chat when Seb sent it to us. I was like, they need to just have people following them around with tranquilizer darts.

That's their PR. Whenever they start to fucking speak about something, bam. I saw this tweet that was like, oh, I went to the planetarium today and like the voiceover started, it said, and this is Earth. And one kid was like, boo. Amazing. Amazing. Rebecca Ivan Ryman, Crystal Rolfe, Paul Seals, Jessica Reddish, Jennifer Scott, capital letters, Tom Padgett, Caroline

Harwood, Alexandra S, Paha Lenievo, they've spelled that out for me phonetically and I still think I've got it wrong. Jasmine McGill, Amber Bonnet, Hannah Noling, Nicole Langham, Melissa McCartney, Gemma Morris. Is that our Gemma, Gemma Morris? Hi, Gem. Matea Jackson, Ethan Page, Hayman Nahar,

Michelle Keane, Rebecca Hobson, Monica B, Katie Campbell, Amanda Lee, Madal Ristoja, Dean Ashmore Rosie May

Caroline Kenner Krulak Kat Hedges Potato Wedges Do you know what? I don't know whether I'd already read it and it subconsciously

was in there but as I was coming down to that name I was like I'd fucking murder a waffle like a potato waffle Oh I love Do you know what?

That's like my favourite like lockdown snack at the moment is just putting a potato waffle in the toaster you know what that's like my favorite like lockdown snack at the moment is just putting a potato waffle in the toaster and just eating it with some salt and some ketchup I only just realized you can cook them in the toaster like that's another episode of what else like don't I know like it honestly oh my god mind blown it's the best thing Shall I tag back in? Best out. Yes, please. Kellen Harwood,

Andrew Semelian, Chrissy Lundy, Erin Collier, Nessa Skeggs, Nikki Ronan, Cynical Dia, Iman Hempil, Katie Eskdale, Madeline Fry, Lucy Bullimore, Angela Flynn,

Michelle Marie, Catherine M. Hire, Katie Rose Davis, Ashley Mills, Katerina Powers, Nicole DiCarlo, Karen McKern... I feel like I knew how to say this before. McKinney? Yeah. Sarah or Sarah, Chelsea Singleton, Pierce Ashley Justin Stephanie W Rita Stishelton and Tracy Wanless thank you guys so much come and follow us

on Instagram because clout makes me feel better and we'll post some pictures of this weird family tree etc there

so we'll see you then yeah I have to go and wash myself because I just got a whiff and it's not very good so I'm going to have to go and sort that out because someone is moving into my house today. Oh, delightful. Well, good luck with both of those things.

And we'll see you guys later. Goodbye. One more attainable than the other. Bye. You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either, until I came face to face with them.

Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness. And inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more. Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music,

or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near L.A. in 1983, there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Lainey Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite.

Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus.