RedHanded - Episode 156: Stephanie Lazarus: The Detective Who Almost Got Away with Murder

Episode Date: July 16, 2020

In Feb 1986 the body of newlywed Sherri Rasmussen was found in the home she shared with her husband, John. It was quickly ruled a break-in gone wrong, and the case fell into the icy depths of unsolved cold cases. But over 2 decades later the truth finally began to emerge; and for the LAPD it struck closer to home than they could have ever imagined.  Poll: https://poll.ly/#/PwXbm7o3  References:    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/48-hours-mystery-one-of-their-own/ https://filmdaily.co/news/stephanie-lazarus/ https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/crimes-of-passion/12/ https://www.insideedition.com/the-case-of-the-murdered-newlywed-and-the-cop-who-nearly-got-away-with-it-inside-the-lazarus-files https://www.latimes.com/books/la-et-jc-matthew-mcgough-interview-20190503-story.html https://people.com/crime/lazarus-files-book-investigation-los-angeles-cop-killed-ex-boyfriend-newlywed/ https://www.nowtolove.com.au/news/real-life/stephanie-lazarus-case-58163 https://meaww.com/lazarus-female-lapd-cop-murdered-ex-lover-wife-helped-avoid-jail-for-20-years https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2012/07/lapd-lazurus-murder-mystery-killer https://www.laweekly.com/stephanie-lazarus-former-lapd-detective-gets-27-years-plus-for-murder/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/06/the-lazarus-file/308499/ https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/in-plain-sight1/ https://abc7news.com/archive/8657803/    See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I know you guys just want to listen to this week's episode,

but before we get there, we have to do some thank you housekeeping, some gratitude housekeeping, I don't know. But fucking hell, if you haven't seen the news, what are you doing not following us on social media, firstly? But fucking hell, guys, you've got us into silver place at the Listener's Choice, at the BBC Podcast Awards. Whereb at the bbc podcast awards where it basically fucking is british podcast awards i mean i i'm insufferable now cannot believe it i cannot believe can you believe i can't it's mad no i am in i refuse to suspend my disbelief i'd quite like

a medal though yeah that would be nice'm going to email them and be like, can we have a laurel, please? I'd like one of those. Yeah, we should get a laurel. But fucking hell, guys. I don't think like, silver. It's silver.

We got silver. And the people who won gold are like celebrities. They've got blue ticks on Twitter and everything. It's madness. And yeah, I just,

I just don't know what to say. I was like fully shaking when we found out the news. And it's all down to you guys, not a panel of faceless judges. You did it. So you can all go and get really drunk this week. I allow it. I give you permission to go and celebrate with some Prosecco.

As the people's princesses, you are allowed to go and party on our behalf because this is wild. To put it into context in some sense, because I still don't feel like I've fully taken it in, over 200,000 votes were cast. 200,000 votes. Over.

So what's that, Hannah? Did you say it was like three Wembley stadiums? It's like three and a bit Wembley stadiums, yeah. Jesus. And obviously we don't know how many of those votes we got,

but we got enough to get us into fucking second place. So I'm going to say thousands. We got thousands of votes that's amazing so thank you thank you guys so much we are true to our word we because we blackmailed you all into this incentivized so we will be doing two bonus episodes as promised and just because you are the ones that's got us there you are the ones that get to pick we have a poll i don't know where the link is.

It's hiding somewhere. We'll try put it in the episode description. So you can go and vote on that poll. Yes, we'll try, but it doesn't really want to play the game. So you can vote on what cases you would like for us to cover. And then the two most popular ones, we will release them into your ear bones probably in August. Something like that.

We'll figure it out. They'll happen though. They are definitely going to happen. So yeah, head on over. Vote, vote, vote for your favourite episodes. Thank you so much. Give ourselves a huge pat on the back. If you want to hear about why I was naked when I found out that we had got silver in the Listener's Choice, come listen to that in Under the Duvet. But for now, we better probably get on with the show. So let's do that. I'm Hannah. I'm Sruti.

And welcome to episode 5 million of Red Handed. We completely missed Cupboard Day. Like, I was going through the Google Drive this morning and we've done Cupboard Day specials before. I know. That I'd totally forgotten about. Didn't we do, like, Daniel LaPlante last year because it was a cupboard oh because it was a cupboard one oh yeah maybe that's what it was but this year to be fair this year at this particular point we've had a lot more going on than we did at that point but at that point we were still both fully employed as

well doing other jobs but I just feel like I didn't even think about it, didn't even register. And then people on the Facebook group were like, it's Cupboard Day. I was like, how do you guys remember? And it's not even in our diaries. So thank you to everyone who remembered. It's been three years. Can you believe? I can't.

That's mad. No, I really can't. Because it's kind of like, I don't know if you went to the pubs when they opened on fucking Super Saturday. It's so ridiculous how they're like, oh, don't get drunk and touch each other. Maybe don't call it Super Saturday then. Fuck's sake. They're like, we're going to proceed with a lot of caution. They're open from 6am and it's called Super Saturday. Everyone get fucking in. I'm like, is this what now passes for conservative? I don't know.

Totally. So I went because, you know, obviously booze hound. in I'm like is this what now passes for a conservative I don't know totally I'm sorry I went because you know obviously booze hound but I was very restrained actually only had three pints all night good for me it felt so strange it felt like no time had passed but actually an entire century had passed and everything was different and nothing's ever going to be the same it was such a weird conflicting feeling I'm somewhere in that region still i still haven't really been anywhere i've obviously been to house viewings wearing my mask and wearing all my gloves and all of the various assortments that come with that now but no apart from the camping not yet but maybe potentially soon we will find out because i can just cycle places like i don't

have to i'm not gonna go fucking hang out in the bloody working man's pub in like Letchworth. That's just not going to happen. No, I'm not going to be doing that. So if I were to come, it would be like coming into London. But I am just scared of getting on the train. My sister and I went to go and look at a flat the other day. And she was like, oh, do you want me to pick you up? And I was like, oh, are you driving?

Fantastic. She was like, of course I'm fucking driving. I'm not getting on the stinky tube. Exactly. That's exactly my feeling at this point in time. All my house feelings. I've just been like, are you driving? Fantastic. She was like, of course I'm fucking driving. I'm not getting on the stinky tube. Exactly. That's exactly my feeling at this point in time. All my house feelings, I've just been like, we're driving now. I'm not going to get on the train.

But we shall see. Slowly, my friends are like, come, let's go for a drink, even if it is just still in a park. And I'm like, it's not the issue of being there, guys. It's the issue of getting there. We're working on it. We'll see. And also the alfresco wee.

I think like everyone sort of made their piece with the this is the summer of the outside wee i don't know if any of you have ever frequented clissold park this summer but there is a tree in clissold park that is affectionately known as the wee tree and it's one of those ones that like the fronds like come all the way to the ground so it's like a curtain and i went in there and holy shit like just like the wall of urea just like hits you straight in the face and I was like I can't I can't go in here I can't wee in here so I went and found a much superior tree that was not as filled with piss and there was a little frog in there and I made a friend. I quite enjoy weeing outside I'm fine with

it I don't feel any awkwardness about it. I went to the park the other day with my friends and they were like going deep into the fucking bush to wee. And I was like, guys, you can just stop at the first tree and no one can see you. It's going to take like literally 50 seconds. Now I'm kind of like drop and squat wherever I need to go. I'm not that fussy.

My only issue is sometimes aim can be weak, especially if you're like in a fucking play suit, then you're in trouble. Oh no. Train is covered in piss. That's not a good look. 1.30. I know.

It's the struggle. It's the 2020 struggle. What can we do? What can we do? And like, obviously, yes, it is technically illegal, but like if we're not allowed to go anywhere or be in each other's houses, we're going to have to wee in the park.

PC plod. Precisely. And maybe in a segue leading us on to our case today, I still remember when we were at uni, I went to go visit my good friend, our friend at uni. Oh, shit. I know the story. He publicly decided to urinate and was swiftly maced by a police officer.

And I shouldn't laugh because it was very scary. But that happened. So as long as you're pissing in the woods and only just getting a bit of piss on your trainers and not getting maced in the face, we'll call it a win. Right. Today, we don't actually have any more Alfresco weeing stories for you. We've got a love story, a love triangle, a bite mark, and a DNA sample that played hide and seek for almost 25 years.

If you've never been in love, don't worry about it because it's actually really shit. What will happen is you'll break up or one of you will die. Guess who's having a really great time on Hinge at the moment? It's me. Oh, mate. Being in love is kind of like being drunk. It's fun for a bit. And then you just feel sick and tired the next day. And then you piss on your trainers. And if you don't get maced in the face, it's a win. Oh, God. Okay. So like literally everybody else in the entire world,

this was the case for Sherry Rasmussen and her brand new husband, John Rutten. Sherry was an all-round superstar. She went to university at just 16 years old and became a qualified nurse at 20. And by 27, she was the director of critical care nursing at Glendale Adventist Medical Center in California. Sherry's aim in life was to rejuvenate and restructure the entire nursing industry. She often told her family, quote, I'm going to elevate the stature of nursing in this nation. And she was well on her way.

Sherry was six foot, beautiful, athletic, very sort of Scandinavian looking and obviously incredibly intelligent. And when young engineer John met her in 1984, he was totally swept off his feet. John was himself also a good looking guy in an 80s kind of way. I just imagine everyone from the 80s just had this sort of soft glow around them. And that's John. John and Sherry made a good-looking couple. But Sherry's family were never overly impressed by John.

Sure, he was handsome, but he was nowhere near as driven as their daughter was. But obviously, we do have to say, you know, whose family is ever going to think anyone is good enough for their child? Possibly nobody. And we all obviously hope that we're going to love everyone's partners, like our friends' partners, etc, etc, siblings, partners. But in reality, probably most of us just end up tolerating them. I think I'd be quite offended if my family were like, oh, yeah, he's actually way too good for you. My family's just like, anyone? Literally anyone. They're like, you're great. Don't get me wrong. You're great. But you could just have a B minus. That would be OK, too. Just to have him.

God. Anyway. But despite all of this, whatever their parents thought, Sherry and John got on like a house on fire. They lived in a condo in an LA suburb called Van Ice. Their relationship was solid, but outside forces started trouble brewing in paradise. Weeks before their November wedding in 1984, a woman showed up at their house. She was a police officer with dark hair and built like an athlete. John was out, so Sherry answered the door. The police officer told her that she wanted John to wax a pair of water skis for her, handed the skis over to Sherry, and then left. One would assume that waxing water skis is probably a service pretty readily available at many outlets in Southern California.

Why is a young engineer your kind of go-to person that's going to, you know, wax your water skis? But this cop apparently wanted John to do it. And it was pretty obvious to Sherry at this point that this woman was using the water skis as a pretty flimsy excuse just to see John. I had to, like, remind myself while I was reading this bit, I was like, this is Southern California, probably quite a lot of people have water skis.

But if someone turned up to my house in fucking North London with a pair of water skis, I'd be like, what is happening? A police officer, nonetheless. Yeah, exactly. Not just someone, a police officer with a pair of water skis. But even if it happened, I would be like, why, fiancé of mine, who doesn't work in the water ski industry, does she want you to wax them?

Yeah, questions would be asked over dinner that night, for sure. While I held this pair of water skis. That's exactly what Sherry did. She confronted John about this mystery water ski woman and her worst fears were confirmed. This woman was no casual water ski acquaintance of John. Her name was Stephanie Lazarus and she had been at UCLA with John and they had dated. They'd met each other in dorms and their friendship turned sexual. Although they were never really boyfriend and girlfriend, Stephanie was most definitely more into John than he was into her. And she was pretty intense. According to John, Stephanie would steal his clothes and even take naked pictures of him when

he was asleep, which if you just like wear his hoodie, that's technically stealing. Is that what we're talking about? Or are we talking about stealing his pants and hiding them under your pillow? Because I think they're very different things. I think they're very different things. Absolutely. There is a huge amount of nuance to stealing his clothes. But maybe taking his hoodie and wearing it around him,

that's not stealing. He's kind of consenting. But the information in this case does sound like she's literally just taking his clothes like a fucking weirdo and squirreling them away yeah and this next bit really reminds me of someone we both know oh shit yes oh my god yes i had obviously read the notes this morning and i was like what does she mean and i just glanced down at the next sentence i was like like, oh, yes, I know exactly who you mean. And sorry, not very fun for any of you listening,

but someone we know did something very similar and it was pretty heartbreaking. Stephanie had met John's family and she even threw him a birthday party. And it was at this birthday party that she found out John had not only moved on to Sherry, John and Sherry were engaged. Oh my God. Come on, everybody, okay. Isn't your heart just bleeding? It is.

Oh! But at the same time, I'm also like, let's all pay attention to what's happening when we're seeing somebody or when we're in some sort of romantic entanglement. Look, if a guy's not even fucking texting me back within the appropriate amount of time, I'm deleting that text.

I'm archiving that WhatsApp message. Yeah, move to trash. It's not happening. Because I'm taking into account what's happening, right? How, how, how, how did you miss the fact that he was fucking dating somebody else seriously enough that they got engaged and you're still throwing him a birthday party?

There's questions here. Lots of questions. Oh of questions oh god basically my advice is pay attention that's all it's tough it's tough but i do feel sad for her i do i don't want to sound too harsh but i'm also like come on now i saw a tweet that was like oh my spirit animal must be a bull because i dive headfirst into red flags. My favourite meme ever is the one of a woman just being handed a bouquet and she looks into it and it's a dozen red flags and she goes,

oh, my favourite. We've all been there. We've all done it. I love a red flag. You know, I'm saying pay attention, but I'm also like a fucking bull to a red flag. God, so the news of the engagement

absolutely devastated Stephanie and according to her friends, for the news of the engagement absolutely devastated Stephanie. And according to her friends, for the rest of her life, she had a John Rutten standard. She compared every single guy she ever went out with to him. And they always fell short. Stephanie actually wrote a letter to John's mum, expressing how shattered she was by the news of his engagement. It read, quote, I wish it didn't end the way it did. And I don't think I'll ever understand his

decision. And even though I know what happens in the rest of this story, I do find it quite difficult not to feel for her at this point. Like not that I've ever felt moved to write someone's mum a letter. But like, I do know what that feels like. Of course, I get the pain, I get the heartbreak. That's never fun, finding out that he's chosen someone else over you, obviously. But, you know, that's within the realm of normal things that happen to people, you know. Is writing a letter to his mum the appropriate reaction? I'm going to say prob's not, but we all deal with these issues in different ways. John assured Sherry that he and Stephanie had not slept together in ages

and the best thing for them to do was just to ignore her and she'd eventually give up. He did not stand up to her. He did not defend Sherry. He just stuck his head in the sand. Sherry's family, particularly her father Nels, was less than impressed by this. And according to some of them, Sherry was so concerned by this water ski visit that she considered actually leaving John. She didn't though and the wedding went ahead, complete with super 80s perms. But the visits from Stephanie Lazarus did not stop. Stephanie showed up a second time at Sherry and John's house. This time she was

fully kitted out in her LAPD uniform, complete with gun. This time Stephanie claimed to be on a break. Nothing else happened, there were no skis this time, but Sherry once again was shaken. She wondered whether this woman was waiting for John to leave before knocking on the door to intimidate her. And it is very, very much a power play, I feel like. She turns up in her fucking uniform with her gun like, this is to intimidate Sherry. Oh, yeah. But again, despite Sherry telling him how she felt,

John took no action. Stephanie then visited Sherry's office at the hospital where she worked as a nurse. According to Sherry, Stephanie turned up, burst into her office dressed in short shorts and a boob tube. And Sherry speculated that this was an effort on Stephanie's part to show her how attractive she was. And I feel like that makes sense. She's got the cop uniform for the intimidation.

She's got the boob tube and the short shorts look for the look how hot I am and your husband used to bang me. Yeah. Stephanie was super athletic as well. She played basketball at UCLA and like just like an absolute tank. John's got a type. And according to Sherry, Stephanie also told her that if she couldn't have John, no one could. And she wanted Sherry to know that if their marriage ever fell apart, Stephanie would be there to pick up the pieces. And depending on who you believe, Stephanie made many more appearances. At places like Sherry's gym, at the supermarket, basically anywhere Sherry would go, Stephanie would show up. Sherry was convinced that this woman would sometimes even follow her in disguise.

Her family and friends were worried, but John, her husband, continued to just ignore the problem. After Sherry and John got married, things seemed to settle down. But three months after the wedding, shit hit the fan once more on February the 24th, 1986. John set off for work at his new job at a fancy engineering firm. When he left the house at 7.20am, Sherry was still in bed. She wasn't feeling great and she had a class that she didn't really want to teach because she just didn't really see the point of it, but the hospital were making her do it. John encouraged her to just get the class over and done with. He dropped off some laundry on his way to work. This, I think, is an incredibly American thing.

I understand that in New York specifically, you might not always have laundry in your building. But my friends who live in Brooklyn, they will drop off their washing at a laundry, and then they wash it all for you there, and they charge you by the pound, and then they fold it up, put it back in the bag, and give it back to you. And that's like a very normal thing. Bizarre. That's so bizarre.

Even if I lived in the tiniest flat in the world, which I have seen some of those in my recent house hunting, I would still have a washer and just do my own laundry. Yeah, but Americans think it's gross to have a washing machine in your kitchen which is where we always have them. Really? Yeah because they all have it in like a utility room where like the washer and the dryer is it's not really ever in the kitchen so like that's why I think there's less washing machines in small apartments because they think it's gross to put it in your kitchen which kind of makes sense because it's like dirty clothes and food preparation like maybe not such a great comp. Oh I never thought about it that is weird I just think culturally that's a very strange thing I won't buy something if it's dry clean only

because I'm like I just do not have time for this shit I'm not doing it mate I'm just never gonna do it and I'm probably not gonna dry clean it I own things that are dry clean only that I don't dry clean I just put them in the washing machine I think I have one blazer which is dry clean only but because of that I never wear it I think I only ever wear it to funerals. And I also refuse to iron. Just refuse. Just will not do it. Oh, absolutely fucking no way.

I cannot remember the last time I used the iron. What is the point? Though I'm in a bit of a situation where I bought a coat. Not like a coat. It's a replacement of a trench coat I had that ripped. So I got a new one. It's so creasy. And I'm like, if I iron it, it looks really crazy and stiff and like perfect, which I'm not into.

So I'm trying to like hang it up in the bathroom every time I have a shower to see if the steam makes it drop. Yeah, that's what I do. If not, it's going back. Can't be wearing a creasy fucking trench coat around like a maniac. Right. So John dropped off his laundry on the way to work like a proper American person and then later on he tried to ring the house to see if Sherry had actually gone to work or not but there was no answer. So he assumed that she must have gone into the hospital

after all. He tried her office but the secretary said that no one had seen Sherry all day. But John wasn't too alarmed. He kept calling and calling and every time the answer was the same. No one had seen sherry but there were a thousand and one explanations for where sherry might be i would be panicking by this point if they're not texting you back no one's seeing them at work blah blah but like this is the olden times and nobody was at the tips of everyone's fingers like we are today so i think i'm not surprised he wasn't worried by this stage because maybe she was just like fuck it i'm just gonna drive to the ocean for a bit.

I'll leave him a note, you know? No, you're right. And reading that with like a 2020 brain, it is quite jarring. But I get that back then it wouldn't have been an issue. Like these days, if I leave my phone in a different room to charge, I'll like worry that somebody is messaging me and worrying that I'm not replying immediately to them. That's how fucked up we all are. Yeah. I asked my mum, I was like, mum, how did you meet people without phones? Like, what if you were going to be late? And my mum was like, well, you just had to be where you said you were going to be when you said you were going to be there. That was literally the only way around it. Or like in old sitcoms where they have to ring the pub to find people. I just love

that. I mean, what a quaint time. What a quaint time. But John, he wasn't worried, but he probably should have been a little bit worried. When he arrived home from work at about 6pm, as he pulled up, he saw Sherry's car wasn't there, which made sense because she wasn't answering the home phone. The shattered glass all over the floor of the garage, on the other hand, did not make any sense at all. As soon as he was inside the house, John saw Sherry lying on the floor of the garage, on the other hand, did not make any sense at all. As soon as he was inside the house, John saw Sherry lying on the floor. She was still wearing her pyjamas and he noticed that her face was entirely the wrong colour. Sherry was dead. She had been shot three times. The bullets had severed her lungs, heart and spine. Any single one of the shots could have killed her in just minutes.

She was just 29 years old. Sherry had clearly put up one hell of a fight. Her face was battered and bruised and her left forearm displayed a Bundy-style bite mark. It looked like she had died right in the middle of an attempt to get up. A stunned John Rutten rang 911, and the LAPD showed up in full force and quickly assessed the crime scene as a robbery gone wrong. One of the couple's speakers had its wires removed and it had been knocked over. A giant vase had been smashed,

shelves had been knocked down, and a VCR and CD player was sat at the bottom of the stairs, as if someone was trying to take them and then had been surprised. There was blood on the CD player that turned out to be Sherry's. There was also blood all over the walls, most notably a handprint next to a panic button. A blanket lay on the ground covered in gunshot residue and powder. Whoever had shot Sherry had used it to mask the sound of the shots. The bullets recovered from Sherry's body were.38 calibre. The third one was never recovered, it must have gone straight through her.

The bite mark on Sherry's arm was swabbed for a saliva sample and cast to investigate who the gnashers that made the indentation belonged to. The saliva swab made it labelled with the case number and Sherry's surname to the coroner's office the next morning. There was no sign of forced entry. Perhaps John had left the door unlocked and the alarm deactivated as Sherry was still at home when he left. The only things that were actually missing were Sherry's BMW that had been an engagement present from John

and the couple's marriage certificate was nowhere to be found. In the following weeks, interviews were conducted with John, Sherry's family and various neighbours. A few neighbours reported hearing a row at the house, but they'd assumed that it was a domestic violence situation and stayed out of it. John told the police that Sherry had no enemies, that they were very happy and there were certainly no problems with ex-lovers. And this cemented the police's theory that this was a simple case of a startled robber who'd panicked and shot Sherry, and the lead investigator told John, quote,

John, things happen, OK? Here's what I think happened. I think Sherry came down the stairs, and I think she surprised them, and she was hurt, OK? She was shot. Not the best bedside manner for someone whose wife has just been shot three times. Yeah, I feel like okay is not a phrase that ever needs to be used when you're talking to the husband of someone who's been shot. Or just like, these things happen. These things happen is what you say when you break a glass.

It's weird. That's not okay. I don't like that. Sherry's car showed up a few streets away, parked with the keys still in the ignition. There were a few fingerprints in there, some blood and one brown hair strand. But these leads led absolutely nowhere. Two months later, two Latino men attempted a burglary with a handgun a few blocks away from the home John and Sherry shared. This fit the police theory of a bungled burglary, so these men became the prime suspects in the investigation. Sketches of the pair were circulated, but they were never caught. And with that, the

murder of Sherry Rasmussen took its place in the cold case fridge. And once again, passive John didn't fight this. He moved away, he remarried, and he faded into the background. But Sherry's family were not having any of it. They offered a $10,000 reward to anyone with any information about Sherry's death. Nels, her father, was convinced it wasn't a robbery. He said they couldn't convince me of it. I guess meaning that John was so easily convinced by this. Just because John had told the police that he had no ex-girlfriend problems, that was not enough for Nels because he of course knew that in the month leading up to her death, Sherry had been troubled by the jilted Stephanie Lazarus. Nels repeatedly asked the police if they had looked into the lady cop,

but he was simply told by Detective Mayer that he was just watching too much TV and no one looked into the explosive lady cop. Again, to be so dismissive of the father of a woman who's been murdered to just tell him that he's been watching too much TV, when they haven't solved the case, it's not like they've got somebody and they've prosecuted and they know what's happened. And he's trying to give them another reason

just because John has said there was no previous ex-lovers or anything involved. And for them to be so dismissive is just really, once again, very alarming. It's got to be an element of internal bias. Like, I think they just hear that, I mean, if it's not something even worse than that, they just hear that, you know, she's been causing a bit of trouble, but she's a cop, so it can't possibly be her. Move on, next thing. And so, despite Nels' best efforts and attempts to expose a cover-up

that he was sure went all the way to the top of the police department, media interest faded away. And in the public consciousness, so did the memory of Sherry Rasmussen. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made, a seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near L.A. in 1983, there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Lainey Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the

hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall, that was no protection. Claudine Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime, and there's much more to come. This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On the Media. To listen, subscribe to On the Media wherever you get your podcasts.

You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either, until I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits,

and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness, and inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more.

Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Meanwhile, Stephanie Lazarus thrived. She was described as a quote, good cop, a cop's cop, which in today's climate, I don't really know what that means. What is a cop's cop when it's at home? Surely you want a people's cop. Precisely. I feel like a cop's cop is nothing good for the people or the public, but they all sound like cop's cops in this particular case.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apart from a bit later on. Yeah, 20 years later, they sort of sort it out a bit. Stephanie did a few years on the beat and eventually was elevated to the heady heights of the art theft department. She handled many sensitive assignments, gave multiple media interviews and was all around very good at her job. She also adopted a child and set up a childcare programme for police officers. Now we're going to pause the story very quickly here to talk about how solve rates work within the LAPD and how that leads to cold cases being reopened.

Now I know it sounds boring but it isn't so put your judgment hats away for the moment because it's it plays an important part. So this information is courtesy of The Atlantic and we will leave the link below to the article and it is absolutely the best article that you can read on this case. It's by a man named Matthew McGough and he is the authority on this particular story. The article won awards and he's even written a book about it. So the year that Sherry was murdered, there were 831 murders in Los Angeles. 65% of these were solved, either cleared by arrest or cleared other. So cleared other means that there was no arrest that could be made but it's because the suspect is dead or something.

So high clearance rates are what homicide officers live for. It is how their performance is measured and overall how their department is judged by not only the chief of police, but also to some extent the public. So if a case is cleared in a different year from when the homicide actually happened, so say if a murder happens in December, but the arrest is made in January, that clearance record carries into the year that the arrest is actually made, not the year that the murder actually happened. So that means if a department clears a bunch of cold cases in one year, their clearance rate that particular year could be over 100%.

So McGough gives the example of 2009, where the Olympic Division recorded seven murders, but they actually solved 15, because obviously they were opening up these cold cases. And that actually gave them a clearance rating of 214%. Sherry Rasmussen's unexplained unsolved murder was one of 293 cold cases from 1986 alone. When the murder rates in LA slowed down in 2001, LA Police Chief Bernard C. Parks decreed

that cold cases were getting opened up again and that they were going to be solved. And this was due in no small part to significant developments in the forensic field, namely DNA profiling. And we all take DNA evidence for granted now. Police often worry that without CSI evidence, a jury won't convict. But that is only very recently the case. Just seven months after Sherry was shot dead, so we're in 1986, DNA profiling was used in a criminal investigation for the very first time, right here in jolly old England. And we have been asked to cover this case. We're not going to do a full episode on it because it's absolutely been done to death. But for the sake of explaining the global DNA takeover, here are the bare bones.

Two 15-year-old girls from the Midlands were found raped and strangled. You can find an account of this case in a book called The Blooding, which is written by a LAPD detective turned crime writer. It's like, is it the deadening that they have in The Simpsons or is it even the bloodening it's something like that i can't remember because i think i either called it the bloodening or the deadening and it was the other one and i can't remember which one it was but seriously the blooding because i haven't read this book maybe there's an explanation for why it's called that if someone has read it please tell us it's called the blooding because they collected a lot of blood samples from lots

of people and that's what led to an arrest but even still the blooding oh i hate it i hate it i hate it hate it nope no thank you yeah so go out and read the blooding if you've got the actual strength i certainly don't yes i'm not here to dissuade you from buying these books please support these authors go buy the blooding we don't know about the writer. He might be a dickhead. We don't know. No, this is true. Investigate whether he's a dickhead or not before buying the book. I don't know. So a 17-year-old boy was initially suspected of the two murders, and he actually confessed to the second one, but not the first. All that was available at the time, forensically speaking, was matching blood types from blood and semen samples. We've seen that

loads of times, and it's nowhere near as accurate or as useful as today's DNA testing. And it would never be the reason someone was convicted. It would just sort of contribute to the evidence. The DNA mapping technique we now recognise was pioneered by geneticist Alec Jeffries, now Sir Alec Jeffries, and he called it genetic fingerprinting. And it's essentially matching variants in DNA genomes to other ones to determine what molecule belongs to who. And I think, you know, we've all seen this, it's lining up and seeing if they are the same and what variants there are. Because, you know, what is it like 99.9 bajillion percent of us is all exactly the same.

There's very few things available in DNA that are different. So you're looking for the things that are different. So on the back of his research, Jeffries developed DNA profiles from the suspect's blood and semen samples from the two crime scenes. And just like that, Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt. The arrest of Colin Pitchfork happened very shortly after, and he would go down in history as the first ever murderer to be done in by DNA. So this conviction reverberated around the world and led to the DNA wars, which essentially was the crusade to get DNA evidence permissible in court in the USA, which, of course, it was. So superdad Nels Rasmussen caught wind of the DNA debacle and cooperated with the producers of the TV show Murder One

to develop a segment on Sherry's case. He knew that there were saliva samples and possibly a hair sample from his daughter's killer just sitting in a fridge somewhere. And remember, that saliva sample comes from the bite mark that was on Sherry's forearm. So Nels kept hounding the LAPD with no joy. And eventually he even offered to pay for the DNA profiling test himself. He even found a lab willing to do it. But he was told that a DNA profile would do absolutely no good without a suspect. Which fine, but Nels did have a suspect. The LAPD just didn't give a suspect. Which, fine, but Nels did have a suspect. The LAPD just didn't give a shit.

Again, this is very reminiscent of the Root of Evil podcast, when they, like, get those letters, they're like, let us test the spit on them, and they're like, no. And they're like, we'll pay for it. No, you can't have it. Why? So anyway, unbeknownst to Nels, on October 11th, 1993, a detective called Phil Morritt took a little trip to the LA County Coroner's office. And guess what he did? He signed out all of the trace samples related to the Sherry Rasmussen case, along with some others. And, okay, this is fairly routine. Things can't stay with the coroner forever. They need to be stored elsewhere to make space.

But the evidence pertaining to Sherry vanished. In later years, Morritt would claim that he had absolutely no memory of signing the samples out. And I do wonder, taking her samples along with a few others, is it routine he was just there to pick them all up or is it kind of like when you buy something embarrassing and you buy a load of other stuff at the supermarket to hide it? I mean, quite possibly.

I think that the issue is that all of the other stuff he signed out shows up again. It's filed properly, but her stuff just disappears. It's not filed. No case number is assigned to it. And it just vanishes. Obviously, we can't say whether Morit took it and then he disposed of it or whether he just took it and then somebody else disposed of it or it went missing purely by accident. Just seems very coincidental.

And for the fact of him to say that he has absolutely no memory of it makes him look quite suspicious, I'll say. But, you know, maybe he's doing that four times a week. Good point. Good point. And by the time this case goes anywhere... Because he's asked that question in 2004. He signed them out in 93. I mean, they certainly shouldn't have vanished.

Sherry's murder made it to the top of the cold case pile in 2004. The only piece of DNA evidence that had not done a disappearing act was the saliva swab from the bite mark on Sherry's arm. But it wasn't filed properly and it was incredibly difficult to find. It had not been filed with the rest of the evidence. It was certainly not where it should have been. Criminalist Jennifer Francis had to go through thousands of samples in the coroner's fridge by hand until she found it, tucked away in a manila envelope. The envelope

had been opened and it had absorbed the moisture from the fridge. Dutifully, Frances ran the DNA from the swab and the results would absolutely throw off all previous police theories. The person who had bitten Sherry's arm was not a Latino man. It was undoubtedly a woman. Frances took this to her higher-ups, suggesting that they look into it further, but she was dismissed. There was no reason a woman couldn't have been a burglar. So the sample went back in the fridge, and Frances was told to pipe down. Five years later, Sherry's murder popped up again in 2009. It was one of many cold cases given a final review. And this time the case fell to Detective Jim Nuttall. And he noticed two key things. Firstly, Francis's discovery that the

bite mark was left by a woman. And secondly, one solitary note left in the file. And all this note said was November 19th, 1987, John Rutten called, verified Stephanie Lazarus, PO, was former girlfriend. PO stands for police officer. So now a woman was involved in the case and the two-male robber theory went right out of the window. So Nuttall got right on the phone to Nels to tell him that he suspected he had been right all along. He said, quote, you know, if we get the DNA and it doesn't match, we're back to base one. To which Nels responded, you don't have to worry about that. You get the DNA and you've got yourself an arrest. In order to turn this hunch into an arrest, though, Nuttall and his partner, Pete Barber, needed to work very carefully.

Not only was arresting one of their own completely taboo, dangerous and laced with red tape, Stephanie Lazarus and her husband both worked in the office just across the hall from them. So they only ever referred to Lazarus as number five and worked on the case when all the other Bobbies had gone home. It's like a movie. Yeah, fully.

She's probably across from them in the canteen, and they're like, we know you're a murderer. They also needed to get hold of some of Stephanie Lazarus's spit, and this had to be a covert operation. Stephanie Lazarus was well known for her temper, and she couldn't know that they were on to her. So they decided to follow her. On a break one day, Stephanie dipped into Costco to get a slice of pizza and a Coke,

and when she'd finished them, she threw them in the bin. Once she left, the straw of her drink was recovered by an officer and sent off for forensic profiling. At this stage, you will not be surprised to hear that it was about as close to an exact match to the saliva swab from Sherry's arm as you can possibly get. The test showed that there was a 402 quadrillion to one chance that the spit from the bite mark on Sherry's left arm from all those years ago came from anyone but Stephanie Lazarus is pretty much a smoking gun there is not many ways around that no not even slightly I mean wow imagine being that police officer and getting that report back opening it up and seeing that it's a fucking match to Stephanie Lazarus, to number five, who sits in the office across from you. Fuck.

And it was a murder that happened 23 years ago. Who like runs a creche for all your fellow officers and is like super good at her job. Fuck. Yeah, and you've got to now do something with that. The next problem that needed to be solved was how they would manage to arrest the trigger-happy Lazarus. The homicide team came up with an ingenious plan. The next problem that needed to be solved was how they would manage to arrest the trigger-happy Lazarus. The homicide team came up with an ingenious plan. They would trick her into entering the jail section of the Parker building where they all worked.

Everyone had to surrender their weapons before they went in. Those were the rules, and Lazarus wouldn't suspect a thing. So at about half past six in the morning, which seems like these days an absolutely fucking excruciating time to be at your desk. Who is at their desk at half past six in the morning which seems like these days an absolutely fucking excruciating time to be at your desk who is at their desk at half past six in the morning who does that a homicide detective that run a fucking crash for the other police officers and trying to keep up her goody two-shoes reputation so no one suspects her for a 20 year old murder her spot on but that day as she sat at her desk a detective approached step approached Stephanie and told her that they had someone downstairs in the jail who had information on one of her cases. He asked her if she wouldn't mind coming down with him to give them a hand. Ever the eager beaver, Stephanie was happy to help and followed the detective down to the jail, handing over her weapon on the way in. As soon as she was through

the door and gunless, Detective Dan Yamario from the homicide squad said, quote, Stephanie, we need to talk to you. And what follows was basically a full-on interrogation. The full transcript is very easy to find, but it is super long. So we've gone through it and we've combed out just the highlights for you. You are very welcome. So the detectives ask Stephanie if she knew John Rutten. She says that she had met him in dorms but she doesn't give away the fact that they had shagged loads of times for a fair few minutes. Then the questioning moves on to Sherry. And first, Stephanie Lazarus says that she can't remember ever meeting her and also calls her Shelley.

She claimed to have found out about Sherry's death from a poster at work and said it was a burglary or something, right? Then Stephanie goes from not even being sure if she had ever even met Sherry and not apparently even knowing her name to claiming that she had spoken to her and she had told her that John, her husband, was hassling her. This a lot.

So she says, quote, maybe he was dating her, maybe he was married. Now I'm thinking I may have gone to her and said, hey, you know what? If he's dating you, he's bothering me. She's talking a lot, which is quite interesting. That quote was her retelling of the time she had burst into Sherry's office in a boob tube

and had said, according to Sherry and all of Sherry's friends and family, you know, if I can't have him, no one will. So now she's admitting it happened, but she's saying that she went over there to fucking girl code let Sherry know that her husband was ringing her or whatever. Like, oh my God.

Yeah, as an LAPD officer, you need to go tell the wife of a man that you claim is bothering you that he's bothering you. That's the best situation for you. And you do it by bursting into her hospital office in short shorts. Cool, that makes sense. The conversation goes round and round in circles.

Sherry keeps saying that she may have spoken to Sherry, she may have known where the couple lived, she may have gone to a party with them, and that her and Sherry may have argued. But all the while she's telling this story, she repeats and repeats and repeats that it was all so long ago that she could barely remember, and just because her and Sherry had a row, that didn't mean that she had killed her. Eventually, Lazarus cottoned on to what was happening and said,

quote, a suspect, I've got a problem with that. If you're doing this as an interrogation, I've got a problem. You're accusing me of this? And she asked for a lawyer. The very second DNA is mentioned. She said, maybe because now I'm thinking I probably need to talk to a lawyer. I know how this stuff works. I wish I'd been recording this because it sounds like all of these people are saying I was fighting with her and now you sound like you're trying to pin something on me. I've got that sense. Detective Dan reminded Stephanie that she was not under arrest and she was free to leave at any time. So Stephanie stood up and walked out. And then she was promptly arrested and taken to LA County Jail and her bail was set at a whopping $10 dollars you know she says like i know how this works i need a lawyer i know what you're trying to do why does she talk to them for so

long and say so many fucking strange things instead of just keeping her mouth shut she's trying to talk herself out of it i think because you know obviously she will know that the case is reopened because she works in the fucking department she'll know that it's been looked into or it's one of many that are on their final review. So for her, this is the last hurdle. Like if it's final review and they don't solve it, she's in the clear for the rest of her life. So I think she's like, oh, if I speak to them about it

and I get out of it, I speak my way out of it, then there's no way anyone will ever look at me again. No, that's true. And it does fit with her sort of general demeanor that we do know of her, that of somebody who is incredibly overconfident, the things that she does and the things that she sort of the behavior that she takes part in I just found it quite interesting because I was like I'm only a podcaster but if police ever started to speak to me I would just lay on the floor and scream that I wanted a lawyer

until I got one you're not getting anything out of me on the 8 8th of June 2009, 23 years after Sherry Rasmussen was shot to death in her own home, Officer Stephanie Lazarus was charged with her murder. The homicide unit came up with what they thought really happened and it goes like this. The front door was unlocked that day so Lazarus, who was on her day off, slipped into the house at about 10am. She was then confronted by Sherry. Lazarus fired two shots that missed Sherry and shattered the glass of the sliding door that led to the garage. Sherry ran downstairs to reach the panic button, but was caught by Lazarus. The pair struggled for some time. Sherry managed to get Stephanie in a headlock. She was six foot and fit as a horse, after all.

That is what caused Stephanie to bite Sherry's arm. After she was free, Stephanie smashed the vase onto Sherry's head and shot her three times through the blanket while she was down. No fingerprints were left at the scene. Stephanie was a cop after all and she was wearing gloves. And being a cop means that she also knew how to exit the scene in the least suspicious way possible. She took Sherry's car and parked it a few blocks away.

She also would have known how to make it look like a robbery gone wrong. Like I have every confidence that she was the one that put the VCR and the CD player at the bottom of the stairs and left them there. Very good point. And the only thing that she sort of leaves is the saliva in the bite mark, which, once that's happened, there's not much

she can do about that. You can't, you would have to hack that bit of, you know, Sherry's arm off to really remove that. And then you've got to get rid of the arm yeah yeah you'll run around with a chunk of flesh it's all complicated stephanie's next problem would have been the murder weapon police officers always have two firearms their duty gun and a backup one that they have to buy with their own money and just like that bit in the shawshank redemption it is tax deductible do you know have you seen Yes. And he's like doing all of the accounts for all of the guards and he's like oh

well that's tax deductible. So it's exactly like that in real life apparently even now. We have to remember that the bullets recovered from Sherry's body were 38 caliber and Stephanie Lazarus's backup gun would have fit them perfectly and this backup weapon just so happened to be reported stolen by Lazarus a couple of weeks after the murder. Stephanie Lazarus claimed that it was stolen from a gym bag in her car in Santa Monica. Who's taking a gun to the gym? Maybe that is like my complete misunderstanding of American culture, but why would you take a gun to the gym? I don't know. I feel like it's probably quite a done thing, especially as a police officer. Just gun in the gym bag, in the boot of the car.

I don't know what the carrying laws are in California either. I think as long as maybe you have a license to carry, which obviously as a police officer she probably would. But surely having it in a bag is a concealed carry and I think that's illegal loads of places. Anyway, it doesn't matter because I don't know the answer. No, and nor will I be able to tell you I believe some states will allow you to conceal and carry whether at this time that was who knows but the point is just like it's

fucking gone missing shut up Stephanie you're a fucking liar yeah she just saunters into the Santa Monica police station identifies herself as an officer and she's like oh my gym bag has been stolen my backup weapon was in it and that is much less suspicious than just saying she lost it, and it also means it's an on-paper written report that she is no longer in possession of that weapon. So at trial, Stephanie was defended by Mark Overland. His law firm agreed to take on her case pro bono, and he credits it as the reason he resigned.

He was also in his 70s, though, and legally blind, so that may have played a part, too. Why are they taking this case on pro bono? What's happening? I do not know. I have no idea. I also feel like I was, like, aghast when I saw that he was in his 70s,

but then I remembered that people just work much longer in America. Like, my friend's dad is a chief of surgery. He's in his 80s, friend's dad is a chief of surgery. He's in his 80s and he's still fucking chief of surgery because like their pension system is so shit and everyone just has to work until they die. That's fucking brutal. Stop taking on fucking pro bono cases for this person in your fucking 70s, mate. But anyway, that's what they do. And Mark Overland's defense of Lazarus was, of course, to try and discredit the DNA evidence.

It was really all that they had that was kind of super, super solid evidence. And he did this in the usual way, claiming that it was improperly stored and that it was planted there after the rest of the evidence disappeared. And that because all of the other evidence was missing, there may be evidence that exonerated Stephanie, but that was now obviously gone. Interestingly, for a weapon to be classified as an actual smoking gun, it must be tested, and because Lazarus's.38-calibre weapon was never recovered, there is no way of actually knowing whether it was the murder weapon or not.

But we do know that the bullets discovered in Sherry's body would have fit the gun that went missing. But also so would hundreds of other very popular models. Overland also dismissed the accusations that Stephanie had been stalking Sherry as simply hearsay. The prosecutor, Shannon Presby, opened with the very impressive line that I stole. A bite, a bullet, a gun barrel and a broken heart is how he opens his statement. Presby had a pretty easy job. He managed to get John Rutten on the stand and prepare to vomit and piss on your trainers guys presby managed to get john to admit that he had had sex with stephanie while he was engaged to sherry and john said that he did it

because he felt bad that stephanie was so upset and he wanted to give her closure. I can't. Like, unbelievable. Unbelievable. Closure. Fuck's sake. John is trash. I mean, he's such a little fucking bitch all the way through this. And now to be like,

I slept with her because she felt sick. Fuck off. Oh my God. I hate this man. I hate him. I can't stand it. And like, him and Sherry were met and married within two years so it's not like at the beginning of their like relationship when he

wasn't really sure like what was like no they were engaged and he knows that Stephanie is unstable and if you couldn't hate him anymore prepare yourself because you're about to. After Sherry died, John had sex with Stephanie not once, but twice. And then they went on a diving holiday together to Hawaii. I can't. I'm just filled with rage. I'm like sweating because I'm so angry. He's such a prick.

I just feel so much rage because it's like, he brought this woman into Sherry's life. And then, you know, we'll obviously go on to discuss whether he's like actually involved in it or whatever but like even if he wasn't sort of colluding with stephanie to do this he fucking created the scenario in which stephanie lazarus felt like maybe there was some hope if she just got rid of sherry yeah because he's still fucking her. Exactly, exactly. He never reports, he never confronts her, he's still sleeping with her.

Of course, this isn't to give Stephanie Lazarus fucking off the hook or anything like that. But of course she feels like, oh, he still does love me, he's just trapped by this Sherry. If I get rid of her, then me and him will get back together. He, in my opinion, is absolutely implicated in the reason that Sherry is dead, because he's such a fucking prick.

And I also think that's why, I mean, a contributing factor, perhaps, like on top of the internal bias of the policing, but why he didn't say anything about Stephanie when the murder actually happened, because he felt too guilty. Yeah. And he was going to get found out. Absolutely, because he's a fucking coward. That's why. So Presby closed the hearing by calling the attack on Sherry not a fair fight,

saying, quote, this was prey caught in a cage with a predator. And you could argue that the trial was the same thing. Stephanie Lazarus caught in a cage of evidence that took 23 years to surface. The jury deliberated for days, but eventually Stephanie Lazarus was found guilty in the first degree murder of Sherry Rasmussen and sentenced to 27 years to life in prison. She'll be eligible for parole in 2039 when she'll be 79 years old. For me, this case is a pretty obvious slam dunk. I've really tried to be like, okay, am I just being a modern jury member? Am I just being like, oh, DNA, that's it, the end.

I really do think she did it. But I can't get two things out of my head. The first one is John and the second one is the LAPD. Why didn't John kick up more of a fuss? He never campaigned for an answer like Sherry's family did. He never put pressure on the LAPD to investigate Stephanie. Did he know? Did he know? Was he involved? Or did he just keep his mouth shut because the sheer guilt of cheating on his wife with someone he went to college with

was too much? I mean, possibly. Both of those are absolutely the only two reasons why he kept his mouth shut, in my opinion. The first one, as in, was he like actively involved with this? Was he sort of a co-conspirator alongside Stephanie Lazarus? The door is open that day downstairs. Why, when he left for work, he knew his wife was asleep upstairs? Did he leave the door open downstairs? That could be a potential thing that you're asking.

I don't know. I would be more inclined to believe that he was involved if him and Stephanie had like ended up together. You know, that's not to say that maybe because I mean, we know he's a fucking dog anyway. Maybe there was another woman. He does remarry. Maybe he wanted to get Sherry out of the way. And he was like, I know who'll fucking do it. Mental Stephanie Lazarus. Absolutely. She'd do anything for me. Exactly. And they do they do you know continue to sleep together after they go on that holiday together maybe they tried and he was like oh actually nah I'm not feeling this anymore but thanks for killing my wife for me I'm gonna go off and do something else now I don't know it's hard to know with regards to the other reason maybe he kept quiet was just because he's a coward, he's embarrassed, he doesn't want to answer the questions.

And even if we say, you know, OK, he's not actively sort of a co-conspirator in the murder, the fact that he stays quiet, the only other reason can be because he's so... I sort of like trip over even saying because he feels guilty because I don't feel like that's the reason. I think it's because he feels ashamed and he doesn't want to have to deal with all of the hassle that had come along with everybody, including Sherry's family and the police finding out that he was sleeping with Stephanie still. He's just a coward. And I think he just wants to cover his ass the whole time. Also, if he was implicated, I feel like by that point, since they didn't end up together, that Stephanie would have thrown him under the bus and been like, he was in on it with me.

But she doesn't do that. Yeah, true. My gut feeling is that he wasn't actually involved in the planning. But, you know, his connection to Stephanie Lazarus is undoubtedly the reason that Sherry is dead. And I do think, like, he knows that she is engaging in stalking behaviour with Sherry. And the worst thing you can do to somebody who is stalking you or someone you love is to fucking sleep with them. And that's what he does.

Sherry's family have lost contact with John and have little to no interest in him. They don't suspect that he orchestrated the murder or he was even involved, but suspect the guilt of the connection for the two women has kept him away. And he is on record saying, quote, the fact that Sherry's death happened because she met and married me brings me to my knees.

I do not know and I fear I will never know how to cope with this appalling fact. He's never done an interview or released a statement and very little about his current life is known. The Rasmussen family, on the other hand, have filed a civil suit against the LAPD. They remain adamant that someone or several someones in the force knew what Lazarus had done and they covered for her. The LAPD, just like John Rutten, have

declined to comment on this at every juncture. Over the 23 years that Stephanie Lazarus walked free, she had access to all of the files and samples related to the murder of Sherry. We know that they vanished. Did Stephanie dispose of them herself or did she have help? Who really disappeared the sample from the fridge in the 90s and why wasn't she investigated in the first instance? Was it just negligence, bias or something more sinister? Unlike the LAPD are not known for their introspective qualities and no investigation has been launched into just what went wrong with this case. Which I find baffling considering it was a fucking detective who did it and she was in the police department after this happened for two decades

and they haven't even had one of those fucking bullshit inquiries where they like police themselves. They haven't even done one of those. That is shocking. But that's what I'm saying. Like they don't do inquiries where they like police themselves. They haven't even done one of those. That is shocking. But that's what I'm saying. Like they don't do inquiries. When Darcy was living in L.A., I was talking to her about the McPherson report. And I was like, oh, you know, it was an internal investigation into the police. And it was found that the London Metropolitan Police were institutionally racist. And she was like, oh, wow, that would never happen here.

And I believe it. There is no policing of the police. No, I believe it. It's like we talked about in the George Floyd episode. The police unions in the US are incredibly powerful, powerful, powerful organization. You know, they're very linked to like the NRA and things like this. And the NRA, we haven't even got time to touch that. But they are the number one political power, let's just call them that, in the US. So if the police unions are affiliated with them, they're basically one and the same. Of course there are no fucking introspective inquiries taking place. So no one has been held accountable and we still don't really know how Stephanie got away with this for 23 years. Especially because she engages in a lot of risky behaviour.

This isn't sort of a smooth, perfect crime. She almost just gets lucky, it seems, from the outside. This is what I keep coming back to. The only difference between the evidence in 1986 and the evidence in 2004 is the passage of time and the DNA evidence. The gun getting stolen two weeks later, the sexual relationship and the family suspicions were all there in 1986. So you have to wonder why they were never explored and why Detective Mayer was so sure that the murder of Sherry was no more than a robbery gone wrong.

And I think it's one of two things. Either it's like the institutional bias of, oh, she's a police officer. We know she was connected to this guy, but it can't possibly be her. Or it's that they knew and they were like okay good job Stephanie you made it look like a crime scene we'll say it's a robbery well done on leaving the car two streets away but make sure you report your gun stolen in the next two weeks and we're going to make this all go away yeah I mean I potentially feel like it's they suspect that it's her they maybe think that there's, they suspect that it's her.

They maybe think that there's a good chance that it could be, but you don't want to open that can of worms in case you find out that it actually is. Because her name is in the file. Her name is in the file in November 1986. Her name is in the file. I think they just didn't know what they were going to find. And I think they knew that if they looked into it, it was a good chance that it could be her.

And that was going to be fucking terrible for the LAPD. So they were just like, nope, it's a robbery. We don't want to look into it. I don't want to know. My hands are over my eyes. See no evil. We're out of here. It's really fucking awful,

but I'm glad at least in this case, justice was done, even if it took 23 years to get there. But it is and it isn't though, because the LAPD look at this as a win. They're like, we've solved it, but actually look get there. But it is and it isn't though because the LAPD look at this as a win they're like we've solved it but actually look over there we're not going to do any internal investigations into this we're not going to find out what actually went wrong because our solve rate is up and that's all we needed. Micro justice was done in terms of who literally killed Sherry but the macro issue of the institutional corruption that most likely lets Stephanie get away with it for two decades has not been solved and will most likely never be solved, unfortunately.

On that cheery note, thanks for listening, guys. Thanks for listening. Thank you, as ever, if you voted. If you would like to follow us on all the social medias, you can do so because whatever we find out tomorrow, we will certainly be posting it on there. What else? We've got some really exciting stuff coming up for patrons this month so some of you may have gathered from the post that i posted last night on social media that we are going to be covering the peter falconio case next week we are so excited that we are also going to be doing an

interview for ten dollar and up patrons that we'll be releasing as a video interview over on Patreon with Robin Bowles, who is the, I don't think it's self-described. I think she is described as Australia's true crime queen. And she is a woman who spent 60 hours interviewing Bradley Murdoch. If you don't know the case, Bradley Murdoch is the man who was in prison for the murder of Peter Falconeo. So we're super excited we've got that coming. We've got another Red Haunted coming for everybody. We've also got our very first Black Lives Matter episode coming out.

What else have we got planned? Is that it? Probably loads more. I don't know. Just that. We'll be taking breaks to do that. And yeah, loads more of some other things. So if you would like to get your hands on some of that bonus content you can do it at patreon.com slash red handed and here are of course this week's thank yous for all these lovely people who have done so thank you so much lex taylor reed kurt john dyer sheer travers mike literis jesse single terry Thank you. Bobby Burrell, Precious Benjamin, Grace Longdon, Megan Lee, Sharon Green-Wilson, Nikki Miller, Carrie Thomas, Bridget Murray, Samantha McCallum, DC, Lucy Bell V. Jiggety,

Josephine Mullaney, Kelly Moss, Christine, Kerry Renshaw, Lauren Blankenship, Emily Varden, Laurie Brassington, Rebecca Brigden, Bridge End, Bridge Over Troubled Water, Amy Taylor, Candice Elliott, Ashley Ard, Rachel Dunmore-Sharples, Tia Marie, Janine Bolthouse, Gabrielle Hovath, Beverly Groovy One Braxton Cannon, Mia Sladakova, Sarah Kapjan, Bryony Bingle, Becky McCarthy, Jasmine Sim, Emma Jones, Jessie,

Eva Nilsson, Michaela Q, Marissa and Matt Bennett, Paige Harper, Sonia Krakow, Delaney McKenna Brown, Sheridan Fuller, Rika, they're phonetically spelled out for me, thank you very much, Emily Earwood, Madeline McKay, Tony Morrison, Jennifer Wicker, Kate, Sandy Kane, Jodie, Nicole Turner, Karina Montero, Retro Gaming Boombox, Laura Mack, Una, Lindsay,

Neil Kennedy, Jen Peterson, Adriana Machado, Roxanne carl beth wilson amy emisy alicia kroll joan golding zoe maria lowry kristin doherty and lisa evan thank you ever so much for supporting the show and we hope that you're liking all of the extra content that we are doing and i hope lots more of you join our patreon so we can take over the world. Exactly. It's a real fun time over there. So come check it out if you would like to. And speaking of which, if you would like a break from the murder chat, come and join us under the duvet where we'll possibly talk about something else. Probably not, though.

No, perhaps not. Still something depressing. Goodbye. So, get this. The Ontario Liberals elected Bonnie Crombie as their new leader. Bonnie who? I just sent you her profile. Check out her place in the Hamptons. Huh, fancy.

She's a big carbon tax supporter, yeah? Oh yeah. Check out her record as mayor. Oh, get out of here. She even increased taxes in this economy. Yeah, higher taxes, carbon taxes. She sounds expensive. Bonnie Crombie and the Ontario Liberals.

They just don't get it. That'll cost you. A message from the Ontario PC Party. I'm Jake Warren, and in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now, exclusively on Wondery Plus. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part, three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life.

I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me. And it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding. And this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify.