RedHanded - Episode 164 - "Command Rape": Vanessa Guillen & LaVena Johnson

Episode Date: September 10, 2020

The US military has a rape problem; 20% of women who enlist are sexually assaulted or harrassed.  The US military also appears to have a murder problem, because a distrubing number of women who have been victims of 'command rape' are dying in mysterious circumstances. Vanessa Guillen was a 20 year old solider stationed at Fort Hood, Texas and on 22 April 2020 she vanished. 6 weeks later her burned, dismembered and concrete encased remains were found. Vanessa, just like LaVena Johnson and so many other women in the miliatary, appears to have been planning to report a fellow solider before she was murdered... Sources: www.redhandedpodcast.com   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hannah.

I'm Saruti. And welcome to Red Handed. Oh, I said that weird today. I said that different. We need to change it up we can't be getting stale up in this bitch we've got to keep changing the business sometimes you're right try new should we just start saying a different podcast name and see if anybody notices there was one episode where we didn't say i'm hannah i'm sruti this is red handed and we were

like we'll just wait for them to all explode with rage because something went wrong with that bit the recording so we just cut it no one even fucking noticed no didn't even bother so apparently no one's even listening to this bit maybe you're skipping past this bit i don't know can i say another thank you to another person who is just giving us content names for stuff we haven't even created but probably should because i just love you guys and the way you name things. They said we should start another side hustle side show podcast called Empty Handed where we talk about our dating experiences. Guys, it's just too much. Do you know what? I've got my first in real life IRL hinge date tonight since COVID. Stop it. I can't. I won't.

I shan't. Oh my God. I know. It's fucking crazy. What's he like? I don't know. I know nothing about him. We've barely spoken any words to each other via text.

We're just going. I'm like, whatever. Let's go. Fine. Fuck it. Basically, you know, you were saying about the whole prompts and you were like struggling with a good prompt. Yeah.

I don't know if his prompt was great, but it really spoke to me. He said, you know, the one where it's like, I know the best spot in town for, and he put dim sum and martinis. And are they not my two favorite things? They are. They are. Can confirm. And I was like, oh my God, maybe you are my dream man. And I was like, I like my dim sum soupy and I like my martinis full of espresso can you deliver and he was like yes I can let's meet on Dean Street at 7pm on Thursday and I was like all right whoa I know don't get murdered please we've only just sorted it out I know I'll try not to but no in other big news I agreed to Thursday mainly because I do have to go into London today because guess who's picking up the keys to her new dump of a house? Oh my god I am like beyond relieved. So I completed, not the day

you guys are listening, on Thursday the 3rd of September. Going to pick up the keys in other news to say thank yous to. If anybody ever listening in the UK needs a mortgage broker use my broker. He is a magician. I have left several reviews for him everywhere. If anybody ever listening in the UK needs a mortgage broker, use my broker. He is a magician. I have left several reviews for him everywhere. If you ever Google my name and see those reviews, you will see that I call him Darren, deliverer of the impossible, because that's what he has done. He is a magician. Go to Bon Accord Mortgages.

Go ask for Darren. Tell him I sent you. It won't make a difference, but you will have a good mortgage broker at your behest. So that is all I have to say on that matter so I'll let you know if I get murdered what the house is like hopefully there are no squatters in there because I've had nightmares about that fingers crossed someone messaged me on my personal Instagram saying that they're a builder thinking that I was the one that had bought the house I feel like it's happening more and more these days that people get us

confused but like I really don't think we sound that similar. I don't think we do either. I don't know. Maybe we should auto-tune one of our voices to sound completely different. I don't know. But yes, that person then also messaged me and said, oh, I messaged Hannah first by accident. Whoops.

I had a 50-50 chance of getting it right. And it was you. Happy to help. But yeah, I'll let you guys know how it goes. And thank you to everyone who also helped with the dog requests. I know most of you listening haven't heard that. That was in Under the Duvet, which you can come listen to immediately after this if you're a $5 and up patron.

Otherwise, shall we get angry at today's case? Because it's going to happen. Yeah, I feel like we've been meandering because this is a real rage inducer. I think it's because I've spent the last like fucking week just staring until my eyes feel like they're about to bleed reading about this fucking case. It's like I really don't want to talk about it, but I know we have to, so let's do it. So on the 22nd of April 2020, 20-year-old Private First Class Vanessa Guillen disappeared from the Fort Hood Army Base in Texas. Vanessa was last seen that day between 11.30 a.m. and 12.30 p.m.

in the car park of her Regimental Engineer Squadron headquarters. She was officially reported missing the following day when no one had heard from her, and her car keys, room key, ID, and purse were all found in the armory room where she'd been working. The U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command kicked into action. They released an appeal asking for the public's help in finding Vanessa, and they had hundreds of soldiers searching for her in the surrounding area of Fort Hood. But there was nothing, and Vanessa's family were, of course, devastated. Vanessa was from a large, close-knit Mexican-American family from Houston. Her mother, Gloria Guillen, said Vanessa had always dreamed of joining the

army ever since she was a child. And even despite her own pleas for her daughter not to, Vanessa had enlisted in the army at the age of just 18. It's mad to me that you can join the army in America before you can even have a drink. Oh my god, you're right. That's mad. Gloria made no bones about it. She was sad when Vanessa joined up. Vanessa was a top tier student at high school. She excelled, placing in the top 15% of her class. She was also very good at sport. She was incredibly athletic. She ran track and she played football, our football and the rest of the world's football, not American football. And she also loved weightlifting. Vanessa was well and truly an all-rounder and she could have done anything with her life. She chose to go into the army to serve her country.

Given all of this, and just knowing the type of person that she was, Vanessa's family were convinced that there was no way Vanessa would have just gone AWOL, and pretty quickly suspicion fell on another soldier, 20-year-old specialist Aaron Robinson. Witnesses placed him as one of the last people to have seen Vanessa before she vanished. According to these witnesses, Vanessa had gone from the arms room in which she worked to another arms room controlled by Robinson. She had gone to confirm some serial numbers for weapons and equipment.

According to Robinson, he had given her the serial numbers and the relevant paperwork, and as far as he knew, she had then left. And the way that Robinson tells this story, it's like he and Vanessa barely knew each other. But investigators searched her phone and found that the last person Vanessa had texted before she disappeared was, you guessed it, Robinson. And so Robinson was actually questioned by investigators of the Army Criminal Investigative Command on the 28th of April. So just five days after Vanessa vanished. So this is how quickly they are sort of pinpointing him as a potential suspect in this. And he had told

them that he had gone straight from work on the 22nd of April to his off-base home in Killeen, Texas, a home that he shared with his girlfriend, Cecily Agula. And she told investigators when they questioned her that indeed Robinson had been home with her all night. On the 18th of May, however, two new witnesses came forward. They said that on the 22nd of April, so the day Vanessa disappeared, they had seen Robinson pulling a large tough box on wheels out of the Fort Hood arms room where he worked. They said, quote, it appeared very heavy in weight. And they said that they saw him load this box into his vehicle and drive away. I mean,

that is immediately very suspicious, even if there is not a person missing. What could you possibly be taking out of an arms room and taking off base? That feels very not acceptable. Well, I think that's probably why they noticed. Yeah, I think so. They're like, hmm, that is a why they noticed. Yeah, I think so. They're like, that is a weird out of the ordinary thing to be happening. I'll make a mental note. Exactly. And so when Robinson was questioned again the following day on the 19th of May, investigators searched his mobile phone records. These showed that on the night of the 22nd of

April and into the early hours of the following morning, Robinson had called his girlfriend, Cecilia Goulart, multiple times. So this shed serious doubt on the couple's story that they had been together that night all night. Robinson maintained that they were indeed together and claimed that the calls were just because Goulart couldn't find her phone and had asked Robinson to call it. These two just aren't that smart or good at lying. The calls had been answered and even the shortest of the calls had lasted for over a minute. I can see if you're like looking for your phone, someone rings it, you pick it up and you accidentally answer the call. You're not just going to stand there in the same room on the phone to each other.

Exactly. And also it's only the two of them. I'm guessing probably they're living in like, I know American houses are bigger, but like how big could this place be that multiple times that night she loses her phone and he has to call it and she answers it and stays on the call for at least a minute while they're in the same house. Like, it doesn't make any sense, obviously.

And further analysis of both of their phone records found that Robinson's phone had been near the Leon River in Bell County for about two hours early in the morning of April the 23rd. And Agula's phone could also be placed there in the same area on the 23rd of April and again on the 26th of April. Leon River is about 20 miles away from Killeen. So once again, this discovery totally undermined the couple's story about having been home all night together. How in this day and age do people not know that their phones give them away? How do you not have that information? You're in the army.

I really, really don't know. They are both incredibly stupid, that's what I will say. If you're going to lie, I mean, just leave your fucking phone at home. At least that would then be indisputable that you were there in a way, you know, as in they wouldn't be able to prove that you weren't there unless they found another way. Taking it with you and then saying you were somewhere else is just completely fucking moronic. They are so stupid and they call each other. So all of the activity can be traced and tracked to where they actually were, which is very much not at home. I know people like are not particularly looking forward to

when phones just develop to a chip in your arm. I cannot wait. Don't have to worry about losing it. Don't have to worry about dropping it. No. Don't have to charge it. Just put it in my arm. Put it in my eye, actually. That would be even better. Even better. Absolutely. Fuck those Google Glasses. Whatever happened to those? Was that ever a thing again? Or no, I don't know. I think there was the National did a like a beta test of sort of Google Glass-esque things where subtitles were running along the lens during the play for deaf people. Oh, wow. And you could like choose the size of the font and like how far away it was in your relation to your like depth perception of the stage. I don't think they took it much further. It was an interesting thing. That is interesting. I support that. But I'm not

going to buy them just to give Google another 600 pounds. Probably people are laughing that I think they cost 600 pounds. They probably cost 6,000. I have no idea idea i think the phone i have now is the first phone i've ever bought that wasn't a hand-me-down i always just was like i'll take your old phone thanks dad thanks whoever this is the first phone i ever bought so faced with their evidence and one would assume their own stupidity aguila reportedly admitted that she had actually been lying about what happened on the 22nd of april now she claimed that on that night, she and Robinson had driven to a park in Belton to, quote, look at the stars. There are stars outside your heist, mate. Why are you driving 20 miles to go and look at some stars? That's absolutely outrageous. So Belton is between Killeen and the

area of Leon River where the phones had pinged. Investigators were still suspicious, quite rightly, but without something more, without actually finding Vanessa's body or finding her alive, they didn't know what they were dealing with. But given that Robinson's phone had pinged down at the Leon River, and given that they were suspicious of him, extensive searches were carried out there. And on the 21st of June, at the Leon River site, investigators found an area of disturbed earth and what appeared to be the burned remains of like some plastic bags or something. But no human remains were found there that day. However, on the 30th of June, so about a week later, some builders who were working the area called the police after seeing something odd.

And so investigators returned to the river and found scattered, burned human remains that appeared to have been encased in concrete and buried. While all of this was going on, investigators still had Aguilar and Robinson under surveillance, and they were also monitoring their phones. So once the news spread about the discovery of human remains, investigators were extremely interested to see Robinson text Aguilar news articles about the find. With, I thought, the particularly touching message, baby, they found pieces. I cannot. I refuse to can. Strugs to funk. I can't do it. I mean, the fact that you're texting her this fucking message, which, yes, out of context could just be like, you knew this person. They found her like blah, blah, blah. But you are under suspicion. Don't fucking text shit like that.

And then it's the baby. It's the baby that really just sticks in my fucking gullet. I don't know. So gross. And so on the evening of the 30th of June, just hours after the discovery of the remains by the river, investigators brought Aguilar in again for questioning. And this time she admitted to her involvement in Vanessa Guillen's disappearance. Unbelievably, she now told investigators that Robinson had picked her up late on the 22nd of April at a petrol station where she worked. He had then driven her to the Leon River. But if Aguilar had hoped for a romantic midnight riverside stroll, it wasn't to be. According to her, Robinson had walked her into the woods,

where he had left a wheeled plastic box. Presumably, that's the tough box that we were talking about before. Robinson opened this box and inside it was a dead woman, whom Aguilar said she later learned to be Vanessa Guillen. She claimed that Robinson had admitted to killing Vanessa with a hammer at Fort Hood. He had then moved Vanessa's body to the woods in the large box witnesses had seen him loading into his car. Aguilar went on to admit that that night she'd helped Robinson dismember the body. According to her, they had removed the limbs and head from the torso

with, quote, a hatchet or axe and a machete-type knife. She told investigators that they had then attempted to burn the remains and buried what was left in some holes that they had dug in the woods. And then after a few days, she and Robinson had returned to the scene of the crime with a bag of cement. They dug up the remains and tried again to burn them and then reburied them and covered the holes with cement. So I think this explains why when they first go down to one particular spot at the Leon River, they don't find any remains, but they find like

charring and like burnt stuff. So I think they've done the burning there, tried to bury the body or buried it somewhere, buried the remnants, and then they've come back, dug it up, encased it in the cement and then reburied it. And that's when they've come back dug it up encased it in the cement and then reburied it and that's when they've discovered the body parts so almost if they had left it I wonder if they would have found them but at the time all this was going down Robinson was meant to be confined to his barracks at Fort Hood however that evening on the 30th of June he had left and so investigators had to go looking for him and I think by this point Robinson probably knew that it was all over he knew that they had found the remains in the woods

he knew that they were speaking to Aguilar at this point so I just don't think there was much hope for him and that night when officers went to Killeen to look for him and they spotted him on the street they approached him and according to them he pulled out a gun and shot himself in the head. Now, I have to say, like, we don't know exactly what happened that night. We have to take the investigator's word for it that this man shot himself in the head. I don't know. Probably. Possibly.

Who knows? But whatever happened, Robinson was pronounced dead in hospital soon after. And as for Aguilar, well, on the 14th of July 2020, she was indicted by a grand jury at the US District Court in Waco, Texas. She pleaded not guilty on all counts, but you'll be glad to hear, Hannah, that she was denied bail and is now awaiting trial. So I can hear you all screaming if you haven't been following this case, what was the motive why

did Robinson seemingly kill Vanessa Guillen well soon after she had disappeared it began to emerge that Vanessa had told friends and fellow soldiers at her base that she had been sexually harassed by Robinson during repeated questioning though Robinson always denied this to the investigators. And Fort Hood officials were also quick to point out that Vanessa had made no official reports about any such sexual harassment. And also officials claimed during their investigation they found no evidence of any harassment. But Vanessa's family are adamant. They say that the army is continuing to cover up a well-known culture of rape and sexual harassment, and this isn't their words, but these are my words, piss poor reporting

within the military, and at Fort Hood in particular. And through their negligence and wanton disregard for female soldiers' safety, the army directly led to Vanessa Guillen, a young woman being murdered, dismembered, and disposed of by a man she claimed had been harassing her. On the 14th of August 2020, Vanessa's family held a public memorial service at her old school, Cesar E. Chavez High School in Houston. Vanessa's coffin was decorated with the Mexican and American flags and she was carried by her loved ones all the way around the school's running track so that she could make one final lap.

The coffin was then laid in the school's auditorium for a service that lasted more than seven hours as the room filled with people bringing yellow and white flowers, pictures, cards and balloons. Vanessa's heartbroken grandmother came from Mexico bringing her granddaughter's favourite chocolates, cremios. They were the ones that Vanessa always asked for when her grandmother visited. She lay them by Vanessa's grave the following day. Despite their immense heartbreak and pain, the Guillen family are not backing down. Ms. Carwum, the family's lawyer, said, quote, this never should have happened and we will never know what happened ever until we get a congressional investigation. The Guillen family are also calling for new legislation, for better protocols,

like to allow members of the military to report sexual harassment and assault through a third party rather than having to do so through the chain of command. And they're saying, quote, we need legislation so this never happens again. But what happened to Vanessa Guillen is hardly a rare occurrence. It has happened, is currently happening, and enragingly

will most likely continue to happen. And that isn't to underplay the impact of Vanessa's murder. It has pushed a lot of the grimy, disgusting culture around sexual assault and rape in the military to the surface. And it has had a genuinely powerful impact. It has absolutely lit the spark for a hashtag MeToo movement within the US military. But the issues are so deeply ingrained that it's going to require an institution and a group of people who, by definition, are there to follow orders and not step out of line. To step out of line in a big way. Because, we have to be honest, the American army, the American military, has a huge rape problem. Now don't get me wrong, the UK is not any better, and I'm sure if we dug around into the stats of any other country, they would also not be any better. Last year here in the UK,

figures revealed a 35% rise in military sexual offences. And while some in the army may argue, and they do argue, that this is because of their work to raise awareness of sexual assaults in the military. And that's why you're seeing increased reporting. But don't you believe it? So they've literally just been like, oh, it's just because we're doing our job properly and it's working. That's the only reason the numbers are going up. What a fucking crock of shit. Yeah. They're saying more women and more men are just feeling more like they can come forward now. So it's a false equivalency to say that the 35% increase is an absolute increase. It was always there, but more people are now reporting it.

So the numbers just make it look really bad because it's a rise, not an absolute figure. But like, fuck off, like, don't believe it. Because the conviction rates in UK military courts for rape are five to six times lower than in civilian courts. And as we all know, conviction rates in civilian courts are already pitiful anyway. Imagine in a military court is five to six times worse than in a civilian court, where it is already pretty bad. In fact, between 2019 and 2020, rape convictions in UK civilian courts fell to their lowest ever. I didn't know this until I was doing the research for this case. They are at an all-time low currently, and they represent a 40% fall in rape convictions in the UK in the past three years. That is not a reduction

in the number of cases being reported. It is a fall in the number of convictions that we are seeing. So if it's this bad in civilian courts, imagine how bad it is in military courts. And I think what we have to accept is that, of course, the military operates on a completely different legal system to us because in civilian land, murdering someone is the worst thing you can do. In the army, it's an honour. It's you protecting your country. It's just the way it's socially constructed.

So what I think we should all try and understand is why things like rape and sexual assault and sexual harassment are seen differently because the system is different. And there are crimes out here, but we're still not great at handling it. So within that military system where it will be seen in a different light, I can completely understand how this has been allowed to happen, especially when the fucking president is being like, oh, well, what do you expect when men and women are put together? And I'm not going to apologize for saying that he said

that. Yeah, until he apologized for saying that. I don't think you need to apologize for saying that. No, I refuse to be fucking dragged through the mud for saying factual things that Donald Trump has said. I'm sorry. I just think, you know what, we'll draw a line in it at this point. There are no words for what he is and the damage that he is doing and the playbook that he is providing other governments to use our own government is doing it did you see that lady who messaged us telling us off for calling george w a war criminal and also by you know infiltrating the show with our evil leftist liberal agenda and i usually don't reply to things like this but i did did you i didn't know you replied oh my god oh my god you don't know yeah things like this, but I did. Did you? I didn't know you replied. Oh my God. Oh my God.

Yeah, so I went back to her and I was like, thanks for listening to the show. Unfortunately, the Iraq war wasn't sanctioned by the UN. So George W. Bush is by definition a war criminal. It's a fact, not opinion or an agenda. It's a fact. And she comes back a few hours later. Oh my God.

Being like, oh, well, like Obama didn't get us out of Iraq. I wonder why. And I was like, well, he literally did. Like literally Wikipedia it. I don't really understand your issue. I mean, I'm not here to defend Obama. Don't get me wrong, lady. But like throwing around like for like equivalencies is yes.

I also would agree that Obama needs to be held accountable for all of the fucking drone strikes and all of the bombs he dropped on Syria. Doesn't make George Bush any less of a fucking war criminal, does it? That's what she went on to say. She was like, Syria wasn't sanctioned either. And that was Obama. And then she said, she was like, just reeled off some stuff that Saddam Hussein was doing. And I was like, yeah, sure. That's exactly what the Iraq war was about. It was nothing to do with oil. And then she was like, oh, if the Nazis were a real life threat, you would be on Chamberlain's side. Okay, okay, okay, lady. Listen, right. World Wars, they've happened. There was genuine threat that needed to be dealt with. Absolutely

heroes, the people who went and fought for our freedom and the right, ironically, for us to have democracy, which is not at all what Donald Trump wants, if you listen to what he's saying and watch what he's doing. Now, unfortunately, what a lot of military activity looks like, especially from the US, and don't get me wrong, I'm not letting the UK off the hook, we're right by your fucking side, is about intervention. It's about intervention, and it's about upholding the interests of big industries like oil, big corporations, and the powerful and the elite. We're just fucking proles. But anyway, this isn't a rant about all of that. We've done it. Let's get back to the case. Right, moving on. The UK government has

now agreed to look again at whether military courts should be allowed to try rape cases or whether these should be automatically handed over to civilian courts. This is because three women, all in the UK armed forces, all of whom reported being raped during their time in service and all of whom saw no convictions in their time in service, and all of whom saw no convictions in their cases through military courts, are saying that they will bring legal challenge to the government if they do not reconsider the existing policy. It does seem baffling that the armed forces should be allowed to investigate and try serious crimes like rape and murder. I can kind of see like, you know, desertion, going missing, stuff that's like

to do with your service. But outside of that... Yeah, it's like you were saying, some things are out of context with the rest of the world. Because if I just have a normal job, and I just don't turn up to work one day, they can't come and fucking find me and put me on trial for it. I understand why there are different rules around that within the army. But when everything else, because like, even if you kill someone in the army, it's not deemed murder. It's like you're doing your duty. But if you just kill somebody, I feel like you should be held to an even higher standard because you have that ability to do it and you have the necessary equipment and free for all to do it. So if anything, I think the military should be forced to hold itself to an even higher

ethical standard than the rest of us. And also investigators in the military are rarely career detectives. They're not trained or experienced to handle cases of rape or murder. On top of that, why would it be a good idea ever to allow an organisation like the army to investigate itself? When there's investigations into the police, they are independent adjudicators like the McPherson report. That's the whole point. Like they are people in the legal system, but they are not police officers. And that's why it's only the independent reviews that are worth looking at. When the police does investigate itself, it finds that there is no problem. It finds, oh, it's all fine. We're dealing with everything properly.

Well, it's like marking your own homework, isn't it? Fucking, it's just ludicrous. It's ludicrous. And I didn't know this fact of most of the investigators that sit within the army are just sort of a couple of years of training and then they're given like the duty to deal with like murder cases and rape cases. And I'm like, that's not how quickly you would become a detective in the real world. Why are you there in the army? That seems not okay. I don't know.

The whole thing is baffling. So in the UK, we're going to have to wait and see what happens. And we will come back to you when there is a verdict and give you all an update. And in case you're wondering why we haven't named the three women that we were just talking about who are leading the charge on this, we legally cannot. So we're going to bounce back to the US for now. Because the harrowing fact of the matter is that today, a US female soldier in an active combat zone is more likely to be raped by a fellow soldier than killed by enemy fire. I mean, let that sink in. You may disagree with all the things we're saying, but that is

statistically a fact. The Department of Defense in the US estimates that among all active duty female soldiers, 20% are sexually assaulted. 20%. Imagine if you had taken up any other job in the world, and they were like, your chances of being raped or sexually assaulted during your work here as a marketing assistant, you've got a 20 chance of that happening to you would you take that job what in the fuck is happening this is unbelievable and by your like senior marketing manager not by like the enemy firm yeah yeah yeah by fucking kevin in accounts i just i can't cope i don't know i don't know what to even say about this next bit. It is predominantly the new recruits, the fresh private first class that come in, because over half of those 20% who are sexually assaulted are between the ages of 18 and 21.

That is diabolical. But it is also important to say that it isn't just women. According to one study's estimate, 1% of the men in the military, that is nearly 20,000 men, were sexually assaulted in just 2009. And that figure, that estimate, is really just shooting in the dark. Because let's be honest, in the hyper-masculine world of the military, how many men are likely to report rape? So what they're saying is if even 1% of men in the army have been raped or sexually assaulted, it is probably far more

than that. I've watched the documentaries. That would be 20,000 men a year. Jesus. And not only is the issue that rape in the military is grossly underreported and also horribly under convicted. It is also absolutely out of control. As we've alluded to here, the 20% figures, those kind of things show you it is grossly like disproportionate to the population compared to like what would be happening in the real world. The number of rapes and sexual assaults in the u.s military is at epidemic levels and there is even a term for it it's called command rape which if you weren't having nightmares this year there you go stick that in your fucking nightmare drawer that just tells you how fucking often it happens there's a fucking name for it command rape it is one of the most harrowing phrases that i've come across while

we've been doing the research for this show command rape is the term that the army actually call it it's not like colloquial slang it is what the army actually call it and it is an incredibly prevalent issue and it is the issue of senior personnel in the army abusing raping and assaulting new recruits and i know that the word issue isn't the right word, but I really struggled with what the right word was. I rewrote this bit so many times. I was like, I don't know what the right word is. In the articles and in the documentaries that I watched about this, they kept referring to it as a phenomenon. They kept referring it to as the phenomenon of command rape. I know issue isn't the right word, but phenomenon most definitely isn't the right word. Phenomenon is like

bioluminescence in a fucking malaysian lake yeah it's not the fucking northern lights is it fuck's sake like the systemic abuse and rape of women that has been going on for decades within an institution that is state-funded is not a phenomenon the phenomena oh my gosh i'm so hot and sweaty already it's tough. Let me calm myself. Let me have a sip of water. So these men who take part in command rape

use their seniority to prey on junior women and men knowing that their higher-ups will protect them because they've seen it happen time and time again. And let's all just think about that. If it's your direct commander who is your abuser or rapist, you cannot escape. You can't report them to themselves. And we watched a video that we'll link below of a lady called Suzanne who was raped by her drill sergeant. And she made a statement to the military, but nothing was done. And she says in the documentary, quote, if it's the guy in charge of you, he can do whatever he wants. After he's

raped you, he can tell you to go and run through a minefield and you have to go that really i don't that really just scared me on another level when she said that no that's really stuck with me as well like because of course you have to if you're not you're gonna get done for insubordination and you'll be fucking court marshaled exactly and i can kind of i'm preempt going to say this because I know that we're going to probably get a flood of things like this. Obviously, the way that the military is designed currently is the same that it's always been, which is male-centric for men only. What they have failed to do is they've been like, yeah, sure, women can be in the army now, no problem. They haven't changed the system. And that is why all of these problems are happening.

They haven't made the adjustment to include women in the space safely. percent of men or whatever percentage it is that are being sexually abused and assaulted also by their commanders would still be getting abused the problem here is this strict chain of command where you keep it at the lowest possible level and it's exactly like you said if it is your own drill sergeant who has raped you the rules would dictate that you would have to go and report it to them you're not allowed to bypass them and go up the chain of command because that is insubordination or whatever. I don't know all the military lingo. You get what I'm saying. Like, the problem is that it is so institutionalized, so rigid and so structured on just blindly following orders and not questioning the next most powerful person to you, that it

creates a situation in which people like this are able to act with impunity, do what they want. And because the institution is so obsessed with protecting itself for reasons that are obvious and that we will also go on to discuss, nothing is done about it. It is absolutely fucking terrifying. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to light some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985,

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by a person named Loti. It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me,

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So obviously, Suzanne, wracked with fear, went AWOL. And this is a crime in the army. So when she was found, she was arrested and charged. And she was told that the army would graciously reduce the severity of her charges if she took back her claims of rape. But instead, Suzanne took the statement they had revised and asked her to sign and crossed out and corrected every line they had written and sent it back to them,

saying that she would rather go to prison than ever deny what happened to her. That is fucking brave. Mate, she's a fucking hero. I love her so much. And like we said, we'll link the specific documentary in which Suzanne is speaking so you guys can watch it. I just wanted to hug her. She's amazing.

And I think there's something to be said similarly to how some people feel about the president, not the specific president right now, but any president. I've certainly spoken to American friends who found it quite difficult to talk shit about the president because it's just, it's sort of ingrained. I think there is a similar idea that people who are in the army because they are serving their country can do no wrong. And I think that is problematic also.

Yeah, I think, you know, the facts we need to touch on is this idea of like misplaced patriotism, where institutions become like deified, like with the police as well, to some extent, because yes, being a police officer is a dangerous job. It isn't easy. So it's like deified and they're talked about as heroes, which if you are a good police officer, then sure you are. But the institution itself should not be deified or held above questioning, because that's when you get into danger. And that's when you get people acting with impunity. And there is case after case like this out there where the victim is re-victimized by the system within the military. And not only have the examples of rape that we've come across during the research for this episode been absolutely gut-wrenching, so has the savagery

that these victims have had to face afterwards. And so for every Suzanne who was willing to fight back, there are hundreds of other women who can't. Maybe they're too afraid. Maybe they don't have any resources to back them. And maybe also, as is often the case, if they get kicked out of the army, they have no place to go. The problem is that a civilian who is raped has a police force and a judicial system to help them find justice. And before you yell at me, I know, I know that it is far, far, far from perfect. But this is a comparison that we have to make, as imperfect as it is. Because rape victims in the military can't go to the police. They instead,

like we said, must report to their commanders. We can directly compare the stats on this. In civilian courts, rape convictions sit at the moment at around 50% here in the UK, but it's only 8 to 10% in military courts. Interestingly, and coincidentally, I thought both in the US and in the UK, it's about 8 to 10%. Obviously, we are giving you guys a lot of homework. We're telling you we're linking a lot of documentaries below, but if you only watch one, I would urge everyone to go and watch a documentary called The Invisible War by Kirby Dick. It is an uncomfortable but vital watch on the staggering issue of rape in the US military. And according to The Invisible War, a third of rape victims didn't report the assault because the person they'd have to report it to was a friend

of the rapist. And a quarter didn't report it because the person they'd have to report the rape to was the rapist himself. What a system. And in The Invisible War, it is a young woman named Corrie Choker that's prominently featured. In December 2005, Corrie was serving in the US Coast Guard when she was raped by a commanding officer. During this assault, her jaw was broken. But when she tried to bring the case against him, her own commanding officer told her that if it went ahead, she would face court-martial for lying. Even though the man admitted to the attack, whilst he denied the rape,

he was punished by being put on house arrest at his base for 30 days and docked a little bit of pay. Corey now has PTSD and nerve damage in her face from the attack. And like all of us know, rape isn't about sex. It's about power and control and brutality. And Corey is clear when she says, quote, he didn't rape me because I was pretty or because he wanted to have sex with me. He raped me because he hated me.

And as if the rapes and the culture that enables them weren't bad enough, what's even worse is the straight up murders that we're seeing. I wish that I could share more with you about Vanessa Guillen's case. I think that it is clear that we believe that she was murdered for wanting to report Robinson for rape. But what we've discussed is basically all that there is currently out there on this case. Maybe more will come out once Aguilar stands trial, but I doubt it. I think there is very little appetite from the military to pursue these kind of cases anyway. And now that Robinson is dead, I don't think we're going to see anything more of this. But there are many, many, many other cases just like Vanessa's.

Because horrifically, so far, and these stats were taken from last year, so they may be increased by now, but these are the most recent stats that I could find. 120 female soldiers have been killed in Iraq. 50% died in non-combat incidents, and 25 of these were deemed to be suspicious deaths that needed investigating. But the military simply said that all these mysterious deaths were suicide, even when all the evidence pointed very much so at murder. It seems like the most dangerous place for a female soldier is Camp Taji in Iraq. Most of the personnel stationed there are out of Fort Hood, Texas.

And according to the stats, the number of rapes reported in Fort Hood unit community is shocking. Remember those 25 suspicious deaths that we told you about with women in the military since the Iraq war started? More than half of those women were from Fort Hood. That's not a coincidence. It just isn't. Like, there's just no way you can argue that. Absolutely not. So that brings us on to another young woman, again out of Fort Hood, who died under such strange circumstances that it screams of a cover-up. Her name was Private First Class Laveena Lynn Johnson. Laveena was just 19 years old when she enlisted. Her parents, Dr John Johnson and Linda Johnson, had been absolutely set against her going.

John, a veteran himself, knew all too well how hard it would be. He had worked hard to save up enough money for all of his kids to go to college, knew all too well how hard it would be. He had worked hard to save up enough money for all of his kids to go to college, and he begged Levina not to go. She was an honor roll student, a gifted musician. The world was her oyster, but her mind was made up. Like many people after 9-11, Levina had been inspired to go and protect her country, but John was angry. Listening to Levina, he felt like she'd been lied to by the recruiters who'd signed her up. John was proud of his career with the army but he knew that what Lavinia was spouting was just military marketing hype. So I would definitely recommend again it's another viewing one it's fine no one's going anywhere right fine okay so go watch this YouTube

mini documentary by a channel called Pop Culture Detective. I've definitely spoken about them before. I think I've plugged two of their videos before on like stalking for love. And there was another one. Oh, the misogyny in the Big Bang Theory. Like they nail it. It's so good. And they do one on the insidious relationship between Hollywood and the recruiting arm of the US military. It blew me away. It is so unbelievable, the level of not just manipulation and lying, but also just straight up data stealing. I'm going to link it below. Please go watch it. It is absolutely fascinating and absolutely horrifying at the same time. Now, before we move on, I do want to say something about the military. Like if you are in the military and you are listening to this, this episode and what we have to say and what we've been saying isn't about attacking you. The majority of people who join up

definitely do so with the absolute best of intentions. What we're talking about here and throughout this case is how the institution of the military can take advantage of, mislead and abuse its own soldiers. And that institution, like all institutions, must be open to scrutiny. And so John and Linda, unable to stop Lavina going, waved her off. And I think it's important to say that Lavina is black. She's a black woman. I think also John having gone through in the army as a black man, having witnessed what it was like, seen all those things, again, obviously in a different time, but like, you know, that's still going to be with him. I think he knew exactly what Lavina was letting herself in for, even if she didn't. And so five weeks into her tour

of Iraq, Lavina's parents got that dreaded knock at the front door of their Missouri home. And they knew straight away that it wasn't going to be good news. And they were right. Lavina was dead. At first they were told that Levina's death had been combat related but she had been working in a telecommunications role so that didn't make a whole lot of sense and so her father John pushed back. So then the army told her family that Levina had in fact killed herself. They claimed that Levina had been mentally ill and that she'd been saying how she hated her life and how she didn't want to live anymore. But Lavina and her family spoke on the phone at every possible opportunity. In fact, Linda and Lavina had spoken just two days before her

body had been found. And Lavina had spent the entire call buzzing with excitement about spending Christmas at home, even though it was only July. So Dr. Johnson wasn't having any of it. And before we go forward, there are a few things that you need to know about Dr. John Johnson, because it's very pertinent to this case. Firstly, like we said, he was a veteran. And also, guess what his job was? He was an army psychologist. And they're telling him that he hadn't noticed that apparently his daughter was suicidal. And he hadn't noticed this in every conversation he'd had with her since she'd gone there. And also you need to know that he's just a fucking badass who will not back down.

And I love him. So Dr. Johnson demanded the full story. And this is what he got. The army told him that on the 19th of July 2005, Lavina had got off work, walked into a gross, dusty contractor's tent, started a fire with an accelerant, picked up an M16 rifle and shot herself in the mouth. And there are so many issues with this story, so prepare yourselves. Firstly, let's consider Lavina's movements on that day. It looks like she got off work, like the official report said, but she went back to

her barracks, put on an infrared reflective belt so like a high-vis belt situation and then she went to the px which is the army shop she bought some fizzy drinks m&ms and lip balm and went and dumped all of this in her room then she walked into the weird contractor's tent in which she was found and shot herself and that doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense does it why would you buy snacks and lip balm why would you buy something to preserve yourself if you're planning on shooting yourself in the head that doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense, does it? Why would you buy snacks and lip balm? Why would you buy something to preserve yourself if you're planning on shooting yourself in the head? That doesn't really make any sense. And the high-vis, which would literally be to protect yourself.

Yeah. On like a base. Why would you put that on? Fuck off. Now, this is my particular favourite. Let's also consider this. Laveena was five foot one inches tall. That's shorter than Saruti, and Saruti is a little tiny woman.

Yeah, that is shorter than me. That is a whole, like, almost two inches shorter than me. Yes, this is very important. Pay attention. And also, Lavina was less than 100 pounds. The M16 rifle is over three foot long. That is more than half as big as her. So how exactly is she shooting herself in the mouth

with that you're fucking joking i pulled out the tape measure at home okay i put it set it at three foot and i tried to hold it in my hand and see if i could put the other end in my mouth do you want to know what the result was i couldn't i couldn't do it and i can lick my elbow so i think i'm quite flexible and i couldn't do it. This gets better because the army suggested that perhaps the way Laveena had managed to shoot herself in the mouth with this three foot massive giant rifle was that she'd used her big toe. That's ridiculous. There are so many easier ways to kill yourselves. Why would you just be like, oh, actually, and for my next trick, I'm going to shoot myself with my toe. It gets even better than that because when Lave's body was discovered her shoes were

on yep they're pulling this out of a previous case so there is another case that is remarkably similar we do not have time to go into it here because we will be here forever and this entire podcast will become one about fucking command rape go look up the name of a young woman called tina priest she died almost exactly the same way that lavina did she didn't have her boots on and the army said that she had shot herself with an m16 rifle using her toes she was also around the five foot mark it's like the spy in the bag case just because you could why would you and also could you i fucking highly doubt it the army then changed their mind and suggested that lavaveena had somehow used her thumb

and just about managed to shoot herself. And her thumb did have several fresh cuts on it, but the army did absolutely no DNA testing on the rifle to see if Laveena's DNA was present. And none of her fingerprints were found on the gun or the can of accelerant used to start the fire. But still, not treated as a suspicious death. No, no, no. And I'm like, why wouldn't you do DNA testing on the trigger? If you're saying it was her and she had cuts on her fingers,

there would have definitely been ample opportunity for her to get her DNA on that trigger. They never test it. Why not? And another red flag for Lavina's family was that although the autopsy was done on the 22nd of July 2005, so like a couple of days after she died, no one called her parents about it until the 3rd of August. And during this autopsy, no rape kit was done. When John demanded

to know why, they said that they didn't do a rape kit because Lavina was found fully clothed. And maybe you'd say, oh, well, you know, that makes sense. Hold on, hold your horses. Because Lavina had fresh burns on her legs, most likely from the fire that had been set in the tent. But there was no burning on her jeans. So it's very possible, if not incredibly likely, that at some point shortly before she died, while that fire was burning, Lavina was undressed. And as John pushed on with his investigation, more documents came to light that made it clear that Lavina had been raped during her time in Iraq, because she was having medical treatment for it. But Lavina had never told her family what had happened. I think she knew that it would have broken them. But the

military just stuck to their story. They said that they didn't need to do a rape kit on her that night because Lavina had killed herself. They said proof of this was that there was no real struggle at the scene. But Dr Johnson got the army to send him the crime scene photos and he was shocked by what he saw. There were multiple injuries to Lavina's face and body, including a split lip, broken teeth, scratch marks on her neck and torso, teeth marks on her body and bruising to her face.

John also discovered that when he looked at the x-rays of Lavina's body, that her neck had been broken and also her nose had been broken right before she died. But post-mortem plastic surgery had been performed to fix and conceal it. If she'd shot herself, why would they bother? Mate, why are you giving her a fucking post-mortem rhinoplasty? Why would that happen? They even specifically told the Johnson family to not have an open casket, all of this.

So why are you fixing her note? Like, I just don't believe that you would do that. The only thing I could even possibly think of, and I by no means believe it, I can see that people would argue like, oh, if they were going to have an open casket funeral they probably would have done their best to make her look a bit better. That's fair enough and I'll accept that. What I will say is though that they do not record the broken nose on her list of injuries. Open casket absolutely doesn't

explain the next thing on the list though because it appears that some sort of corrosive substance had been poured onto Lavinia's vaginal area. But as Saru said, none of these injuries are mentioned in the military autopsy or the investigative report. And if you need anything more to convince you, we have got more. Blood was found outside of the tent where Lavina was found that wasn't hers. So somebody else was definitely there. Oh yes, it's all sorts of fucked up. And the fire. They say that she started the fire to burn some papers or burn her diary.

But like, what do we normally see fire started for? Arson for sexual thrills or insurance fraud or to conceal a crime. You don't fucking kill yourself and then think I better conceal this crime before I do it. Like, what? What is happening what? What is happening here? It is so confusing. Why in God's name would you start a fire inside a tent that you are also inside? Because if you're going to kill yourself, I'm guessing what you don't want is to draw attention to what you're about to do. So why would you set a fire that is going to draw

a fucking shitload of attention to that tent and then shoot yourself? And also, how did the burns get on her legs under her jeans? So she starts a fire naked or at least with no trousers on, burns herself, pours corrosive substances on herself and then gets dressed again and then shoots herself in the face? What? I mean, yeah, I think it's clear what we think. But there's more. So let's consider next the bullet wound itself.

I have seen the crime scene photos. If you watch the documentary that I'm going to link below called Lavinia's Dog, you will also see them. Prepare yourself. They are not easy to witness. But the bullet wound was on the left hand side of Lavinia's head. But guess what? She was, of course, right handed. Also, John could not believe that there was not much more damage. This is a heavy-duty gun that we're talking about here. John was surprised that the whole of Lavina's head wasn't blown off. Lavina was also found, interestingly, on her back.

And everyone claimed that she hadn't been moved. But it's clear to see that lividity had set in on Lavina's left side. So someone has moved her. Although the army claimed that no one had how had so much evidence been missed or ignored so john thought this he demanded to know why if lavina's psych evaluations had been as bad as the army claimed they were why the fuck was she given a gun and an enormous fuck off gone at that and also he wanted to know what proof they had that lavina had been mentally or emotionally unwell.

And the army claimed it was because they had spotted a change in her eating habits. Allegedly, Laveena had started eating ice cream three times a day. That's suicide for you. She's 19 and in Iraq. She's going to just be like, I'm away from my family and I'm sad, I'm just going to eat ice cream. Or it's really fucking hot and I'm going to eat ice cream. And no one's here to tell me I can't. Are you fucking kidding me? But this retrospective diagnosis of ice cream mania didn't quite fit with Lavinia's

own commander's notes on her well-being that were taken just before she died. The commander had written that Lavinia was, quote, happy, healthy, physically and emotionally. Every piece of evidence that Lavinia's family extracted from the military had to be squeezed out of them using numerous Freedom of Information Acts. The army forced Lavina's family to go through the pain and torture of using all of their energy and resources pursuing them for information that they had all along. During the worst possible moments of their life as well. That's what's so sick about it all. So ultimately, Lavina's death to this day is recorded as a suicide. But here are the key headline takeaways that we will leave you with. No bullet was ever recovered from

the scene. Where did that go? No suicide note was found and no significant gunshot residue was detected on Levina's hands. If nothing else convinces you, the bullet. Where's the bullet? Is this a bullet in a gun like that must be fucking massive. Where does that go? So men and women who are raped in the military, as we have shown you throughout this episode, rarely report what happened to them. But the families, when their loved ones are murdered, are forced to a standstill in cases like this. The military just assumes that the family would be compliant and they'll just go along with it. And most do because it's incredibly difficult and intimidating to take on the military.

John Johnson knows the military. He worked there. He knows what these people are about. He knows what's going on. But most families wouldn't even consider questioning or challenging the military, even if they were suspicious. They would be scared, and even if they wanted to, most wouldn't even know what to ask or how. There is so much like bureaucracy to it. If you don't know how to play the game, you can't win. Even if you do, like John does, he still couldn't get what he wanted. So if any families do start asking questions, like Vanessa Guillen's or like John Johnson, the military will wrap them up in so much red tape and legalese during, like we said, the worst possible grief imaginable, that they'll just give up. And honestly, who can blame them? John says he's only able to

fight them the way he has because his wife does the grieving for both of them, so he can fight for their baby. Dr. John Johnson's mission in life is now to fight for Lovina, saying, quote, it will be a cold day in hell before I stop. I cannot give up on my baby until we have justice and justice at this stage is forcing the army to make changes about how women are treated in the military. So can we see any change on the horizon? Honestly, I have no idea. It's a lot like the police. It's an institution that's deified and they'll close ranks to protect each other and themselves. We also found another mini documentary about a female soldier who'd been raped by her drill sergeant. And again, it will

be in the links below. And once again, in this story, the pain came from, of course, the attack, but also the hazing and bullying and the punishment that this woman received after daring to speak out. This particular soldier was able to get some justice but it wasn't handed to her. It didn't find her. She fought for it, risking everything. And afterwards, although she said that a lot of her trust in the army had been eroded, she decided to stay. She says it wasn't the army, it was the individuals. And yes, of course, it was the individuals. But it was the individuals and yes of course it was the individuals but it is the institution that allows those individuals to do what they want with impunity it is the institution that fails to protect these young women and men and so like i watched that entire documentary and i have so

much respect for this woman what she goes through how she fights for her justice but i have to disagree with her it is the army it is the institution just like when it's the church or another religious group or whatever it may be that allows pedophiles and child rapists to do what they do and it's just like when it's the police force that allows individual officers to murder unarmed black men and women and walk away the military says that they are now aggressively working on tackling the issue of rape and from what i can see it appears that they are now aggressively working on tackling the issue of rape and from what I can see it appears that they have made a bunch of marketing and PR videos claiming to address the cultural change needed to stop sexual assault. And that's all well and good but what's being done to hold people accountable? Which rapists are being made examples of? Until

that happens there will be no change. And sadly I fear that it's like we see time and time again powerful people in powerful institutions are only concerned with maintaining the status quo and they are willing to protect the men who do things like this because to hold them accountable would be to throw the entire system and structure of toxic privilege from which they themselves benefit under the bus and that's just a price too high to pay. So as long as that is the main driving force, I just don't see how there can be oversight for this kind of thing. And tragically, I just feel like there will be no protection for the likes of Vanessa Guillen, Commissioner Block, Corey Choker, Tina Priest, Gloria Davis, and so many, many more. Systematic and institutional

oppression is something we talk a lot about on this show. And this is a perfect example of that. The military is so busy covering up and hiding a despicable culture of rape that has borrowed its way deep into the system in order to protect the powerful and also the institution itself. Like I said, go check out that pop culture detective video. It explains it so well. The military is big money and recruitment is everything how many young women do you think would sign up if they knew the truth that 20 of them would end up being raped so yeah hope you're still there hello if you are i don't even know if i'm still here it's a tough one but yeah you guys requested this we had so many requests for us to look into the

case of vanessa guion i'm really glad that we have. So yeah, go check out all of the various videos and documentaries that we have listed below. If you can stomach it, don't do it. If you can't, you've already had a tough day. Other than that, you guys know the drill by now. Come and follow us on all the social medias at Red Handed. Get your live stream tickets for the London Podcast Festival, which is happening on the 25th of September.

It's at 9.30pm BST. I don't know what that is for everybody else across the world, but you guys can figure it out. Come, it'll be so much fun. We're going to do some London murders, aren't we, Hannah? So it's in King's Place, the event, which is basically just like the centre of the UK podcast universe. It's where the podcast awards are.

The podcast festival is always there.'s in kings cross so i think i'm gonna dig up some sort of like kings crossy type something and there's fucking loads of them because kings cross used to be an absolute fucking shithole so we'll do that and then we've got over an hour to fill so we might do some killers say the craziest things or we might do some couples game we don't know we haven't decided yet we haven't decided it's gonna be a whole lot of fun, though. You should definitely buy a ticket to the live stream because the real in-life venue show is sold out. Because you guys are the fucking best. Yeah, you guys are bad bitches, man.

We sold out in like a couple of hours. The guilty feminist hasn't even sold out. We're just so thrilled. So thank you guys so much. Thank you for continuing to make us look very good. Absolutely. It's all down to you. You are our marketing and PR department, all of you listening, and we are grateful for it because we don't want to hire one. So thank you. Other than that, what have we got to say? Nothing really. So if you would like to come join us in

Under the Duvet immediately after the show, if you are a $5 and up patron. Otherwise, we will see you sometime soon. But we have to say thank you first to all these people. Thank you very much. Alison Buttrill, Sophie Fernie, Amanda Shuey, Sierra Smalling, Evelina Anias-Navala, Shadia, Jade, Laura Hansen, Laura, Alexandra Stanley, Tara Carson, Sam Baker, Sam Barker even, Crystal Morgan, Marley Kitchens, great, Sinead McMullen, Alicia Canavan, Marnie Davimis, Jodie Atin, Ariane, Kristen Elifritz, Alex Johan, Deborah Rie, Shelley Holbrooks, Nicolette, Thank you. Eve Elizabeth, Freddie Young, Helen Dixon, Joe, Dionne Darch, Miles Robinson, Claire Keane, Katie Chords, Tara Hattie-Martin,

Carolina Pierce, Jess Isher Chapman, Lydia Hearn, Emma Maltby, Wayne Elsie, Josie Cannon, Brandy Hughes, Jasmine Woo. I think I know Jasmine Woo. I think Jasmine Woo replaced me in Korea as the foreign teacher. I think, but I'm not sure. Is it you, Jasmine Woo? Tell us. I think she's a chef now.

Anyway, Jessie Banuelos, she read all of my reports of the kids, which are completely pointless because none of the parents speak English or read it. So I would have to do these reports every fucking semester for these stupid-ass children that I hated, which was pointless. So I was just like, this kid is a fucking asshole. Smiley face. And they're like, oh, thanks. And she found all of my reports and she was like, I knew when I read them, I was like, I have to find this girl. That was so funny. Anyway, Georgia Mary, Melissa Lovell, Beck Rogers, Estelle Jackson, Catherine Sainsbury, Rachel Calvert, Kathika Skirikuma, Sophie Wilkinson, Rebecca Bonomi, Teresa Oliviero, Penelope Lynn, Miranda,

Paige Brown, Rebecca Crockett, Laura Pemberton, Carly Knight, Ash Lovell, Teal McDermott, Jessica Feeney, Morgan Morrison, Amy Pejanado, Thank you. Maxwell, Catherine Deacon, Cassass, Megan Ellison, Elizabeth Irene, Hayley, Sari Jackson, Hannah Poore, Lindsay Baker, Kayla Warner, Lucy McKay or McKay, Ali Arnold, Evelyn Virginia Hogan, Amber Robertson and Amy on her own at the end. Just Amy. Thank you guys so much. It means the world to us. It genuinely does.

And we will see you next time, possibly for something less rage-inducing, probably not. Goodbye. Bye. So, get this. The Ontario Liberals elected Bonnie Crombie as their new leader. Bonnie who? I just sent you her profile. Check out her place in the Hamptons. Huh, fancy. She's a big carbon tax supporter, yeah?

Oh yeah. Check out her record as mayor. Oh, get out of here. She even increased taxes in this economy. Yeah, higher taxes, carbon taxes. She sounds expensive. Bonnie Crombie and the Ontario Liberals. They just don't get it.

That'll cost you. A message from the Ontario PC Party. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall, that was no protection. Claudian Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime, and there's much more to come. This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On the Media. To listen, subscribe to On the Media wherever you get your podcasts.