RedHanded - Episode 220 - The Murder of Dylan Redwine

Episode Date: November 4, 2021

On the 18th of November, 13 year old Dylan Redwine boarded a plane to visit his dad, Mark. Dylan really didn’t want to go - Mark lived in the middle of nowhere and the relationship between the 2 had been strained since the Redwine’s divorce. But no one could have expected the nightmare that was about to unfold, and the unbelievably shocking family secrets that would be spilled… Become a patron: Patreon Order a copy of the book here (US & Canada): Order on Wellesley Books Order on Amazon.com Order a copy of the book here (UK, Ireland, Europe, NZ, Aus): Order on Amazon.co.uk Order on Foyles Follow us on social media: Instagram Twitter Visit our website: Website Contact us: Contact Sources: https://www.courts.state.co.us/Courts/County/Case_Details.cfm?Case_ID=3494 Exhibits 17 and onwards...if you want to see the pictures https://www.durangoherald.com/articles/colorado-father-sentenced-to-prison-for-killing-13-year-old-son-dylan-redwine/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/colorado-dad-mark-redwine-found-guilty-of-killing-son-dylan-over-lewd-diaper-pics https://apnews.com/article/colorado-durango-child-abuse-acdcb6967bf1e1d15ec077fa819c1c70 https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.denverpost.com/2021/07/16/mark-redwine-guilty-verdict/amp/ https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.9news.com/amp/article/news/investigations/dylan-redwine/mark-redwine-sentencing/73-4c39bcb3-1196-439a-8ae1-3410ac4eefea See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Saruti.

And I'm Hannah. And this is Red Handed. Welcome to your weekly dose of all things weird, wonderful and true crime. And today it's very weird, not so wonderful. No, I would venture the least wonderful. I'm certainly not feeling that wonderful about it. This one's super duper gross, but it's not gross until right at the very end. Yeah, I messed about a lot with this script about where to put the big, the big sitch. It's quite the sitch.

Yeah, and I, I don't know, I've taken some creative liberties in where it's been placed. And it's a big bang end. Well, that is your job as a journalist. I am a journalism. So you are correct. Have we got anything to say? No, it's still October. No, is it? As a journalist. I am a journalism. So you are correct. Have we got anything to say? No, it's still October.

No, is it? No, we're in November now. Okay. Well, forget everything I just said. We're coming to you from the past. If you haven't checked out our brand new show that is exclusively on Spotify, which is called Sinister Society. Oh, yes. You might want to consider doing that. So make sure you either check out patreon.com forward slash retarded or take yourself over exclusively to Spotify where you can find our brand new show, Sinister Societies, or

if you're feeling especially spicy, do both. This month, our bonus episode is going to be a really interesting one. We're going to do the gunpowder plot, guys. Guy Fawkes. Oh, yeah. In all his Catholic effigy burning glory. Yep. Yep.

Yep. So get ready. Plugs done. Let's get on with today's case. And today's case is one that has been making headlines for the best part of a decade now. And it was only this year, in 2021, that justice was finally served. The story of what happened to 13-year-old Dylan Redwine is a bizarre and tragic one, filled with some honestly, truly stomach-churning twists. We will warn you when we get to the strictly no eating part. Yeah, you've got some time. You've got a while. But get yourself mentally ready. And for those of you who know this case, you already know what's

coming. So Dylan's parents Elaine Hall and Mark Redwine had been married for 18 years they had two children and lived in Durango Colorado which Durango just sounds like it should be in Australia I to be honest didn't know a huge amount about this case and I saw that and I was like oh this is this has got to be Australian like Burrawang is another one in Australia which I think is just bizarre but that's probably me being extremely white but yes it does sound like it should be in Australia yeah but it's in Colorado that's where we're hanging out basically for the entirety of this episode so Elaine and Mark they're married for 18 years but in 2007 they ended up getting divorced and Elaine took the boys and moved to Colorado Springs,

which is about 300 miles away. This is what I love. When I said she moved 300 miles away, I was like, oh my God, where did she go? She's still in the same state. One of the things I envy about Americans, I envy being able to live in whatever climate you choose without needing a visa. That is a very good point.

That is a very good point. I do. I'm very envious of that. I a visa that is a very good point that is a very good point i do i'm very envious of that i mean that is a that is good the thing i am probably the most envious of of americans is their vast array of fast food options try as i might i cannot find a popeyes chicken substitute here in the UK. No, it's just not. It's just not. It makes it so much sweeter when you finally get to a Popeye's though, doesn't it? If you've been waiting for years. Oh my God.

When we eventually get to the US on tour, I'm going to eat so much Popeye's chicken. I'm not to roll you on stage. I'm not going to fit in any of the outfits that I will bring with me. What was I going to say? What is, what's your, if you're going to have fried chicken in this country, what's your go-to? Because I desperately was craving some the other day. So I have a similar problem in that the best fried chicken in the world, what's your, if you're going to have fried chicken in this country, what's your go-to? Because I desperately was craving some the other day. So I have a similar problem in that the best fried chicken in the world, in my opinion, is Korean fried chicken. Which, listen, listen, children.

The best fried chicken in the world comes from barbecue fried chicken in Changwon, South Korea. There you go. Facts. Facts is facts. And that's it. I've never found anything that is even clear. Even the Korean restaurants here don't do it properly. So Dixie Fried Chicken is terrible, don't bother.

Oh, I was going to say. I will fuck with a Dixie Fried Chicken. We can do better. We can do better. The only thing is the Dixie Fried Chicken, at least the franchise that is near me in Leighton, they do, the hot wings they do are genuinely hot and I can get on board with that okay I would say but but I would always prioritize a Morley's over a Dixie interesting if I can get to a Morley's yeah there's not that many of them around

they're all in South London that's what I was gonna say they're all in South London I had I had I did I did a bad thing yesterday oh what did you do So I stayed late at the office finishing up the tour show. No. Because we're in the past. The tour hasn't happened yet. But as you're listening to it, the tour has happened. And I was just staying late in the office and I was in a foul mood yesterday. So I was like, you know what?

Fuck it. I'm just going to order some disgusting chicken. Yes. And I ordered from somewhere on Deliveroo, so you know it's fancy. It's called Butchie's Buttermilk Fried Chicken. Oh. Oh, I've walked past it know it's fancy it's called butchie's buttermilk fried chicken oh oh i've walked past it and it's always fucking he as in there's deliveries are just pouring out yes it's very good and there is a good selection and they have a very funny joke on their menu which i will find so their popcorn chicken is called Smalls and their large popcorn chicken is called Biggie.

There you go. That's, you know. Sponsored by whatever. Sponsored by whatever. Sponsored by whatever the fuck you want. I don't care anymore. Back to the story. So Elaine takes the kids and she moves 300 miles away, but still stays in the exact same state that Mark is living in.

Somehow we ended up at fried chicken. Yes. They're both still in Colorado, which I'm sure has delicious fried chicken. It also looks very beautiful. And so, like many children in this kind of a situation, Dylan lived with his mum and would spend half of all of his holidays with his dad back in Durango. And it was during one of these holiday visits for Thanksgiving that on the 18th of November 2012, Dylan boarded a plane to go and stay with Mark. The problem was, however, that Dylan really didn't want to go. Mark's place was super isolated, it's like all in the mountains and stuff, and it also doesn't seem that Dylan was all that close

to his dad. But the visit was court-ordered, and Dylan, being only 13, had no choice. His brother Corey, however, who by this point was over 18, didn't have to go. And I think that is possibly quite telling. So Elaine put her son on a plane and told him to at least try and have a good time, reassuring him that he'd be home before he knew it. When Dylan arrived, Mark picked him up at the airport and the two went to a nearby Walmart to grab some staying over essentials. And then they went to a McDonald's drive-thru to get dinner. Dylan was caught on CCTV during these trips and it would be the last time that the 13-year-old would be seen

alive in public ever again. The next day day so the 19th of november dylan was planning on meeting a friend at 6 30 a.m pardon and again i think that this is particularly telling the idea that dylan goes and stays with his dad and then he is making plans the next day at 6 30 a.m yeah like i said i think it just proves a 13-year-old that's willing to do that. That's how much he doesn't want to be there. And he'd actually asked, apparently, Mark, his dad, if he could just stay at that friend's house that night. I know, I know. Hannah's making a face like it's so uncomfortable.

And it is. And Mark had said no. It's just a sad state of affairs. Yeah. a sad state of affairs. Yeah, but it's even sadder because Dylan never actually turned up for his 6.30 a.m. play date. At 6.46 a.m. his friend texted him saying, where are you? And Dylan never replied. Apparently, Mark had actually been meant to drive his son to meet this friend. So what had happened? Well, according to the story that Mark would later tell police, the day before, he and Dylan had come home from the airport

and Dylan had fallen asleep on the sofa. The next morning, Mark woke up and left the house to run some errands at around 7.30am. He says that when he left, he saw Dylan still asleep on the sofa with the TV running. Mark claims that he left, he saw Dylan still asleep on the sofa with the TV running. Mark claims that he left Dylan to it and was gone for about four hours. Which again, your kid comes stay with you for Thanksgiving, who you don't see very often, who lives 300 miles away.

What are you doing running errands for four hours? I mean, for many reasons, that shall become clear. And we'll leave those reasons alone the reasons we have up until this point are already proof that mark redwine is a shitty dad it doesn't surprise me but like yes it is it's a bullshit thing to do to be like oh i never see you bye but back in four hours i'm gonna do some shit i could have done yesterday but i didn't exactly so he then also tells the police that he got back to his house at around 11.30am. And according to Mark, by this point, Dylan was gone.

So assuming that his son had gone to meet up with his friends, Mark Redwine says that he went and had a nap. I think it's important to clear it up just because I was a little bit confused about this at the start. Obviously, Dylan lived in Durango when he was a child and then he went and lived in Colorado Springs. So he does have childhood friends in this area. So he does like know some people around there. So Mark just says he thinks he's gone off there and now he goes for a nap. And then he says he woke up from this nap at about 1pm. And at this point, according to him, Dylan was still not home, so he tried to call him and text him, but when he got no reply,

Mark then said he tried to call Dylan's friends in the area, but apparently no one had seen or heard from him since the previous night. So at 4.32pm on the 19th of November, Mark texted Elaine, his ex-wife and Dylan's mum, asking if she'd heard from their son, and saying that he'd been trying to reach him all afternoon with no luck. Needless to say, Elaine, being six hours away by car, was horrified. That's a terrifying message to receive. Yeah. To be like, no, he's with you, you fucking piece of shit deadbeat. He's not winning any dad competitions. Oh no, and it just gets worse and worse.

And it's probably worth saying at this stage in the game that Mark Redwine texting Elaine that their son was missing is quite odd. Surely you would call. I feel like that's worth a call. That's worth a quick call. At least a voice note. A text. I think a voice note is worse. I feel like that's worth a call. That's worth a quick call. At least a voice note. A text. I think a voice note is worse.

I really do. I can't even be bothered to move my fingers to relay this message to you. So I'm just going to voice note it. No. You're right. That is worse. Yeah. He should be calling.

Yes. Yes. Absolutely. But whatever the reason, these messages are worth discussing in and of themselves. Mark says that he didn't call her because the pair were embroiled in a bitter custody battle following a toxic divorce. And that with relations so tense, it was better to just text, no, it's not. That is not going to win you any points anywhere. Especially not in the battleground of the custody battle arena oh my god can you imagine like that's not really going to instill any court with any faith

that you can do a good job as a father firstly missing on my watch and i can't have me bothered to ring you about it not not stacking up dad points no and just in case anybody is forgetting dylan was 13. 13 years old. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near L.A. in 1983, there were many questions surrounding his death. The

last person seen with him was Lainey Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to light some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster.

Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today. But whatever the reason, real or fake, for these text messages, they are worth discussing in their own right. In previous texts with Elaine about Dylan, Mark texts very casually, even sloppily. He's so like, whatever, in the planning stages of Dylan coming to stay. For example, Elaine had texted him multiple times

on the day Dylan was travelling because his flight had been cancelled. Mark ignored all of these messages. And then when Elaine clearly worried about her 13-year-old son making it safely to his dad or not, she asks again if Mark got him from the airport. And Mark just says he didn't turn up. I was reading these texts. I would be in the car yeah

and I was my jaw was on the floor because you see them Elaine is like I've tried to text you I've tried to text you multiple times Dylan's flights delayed Dylan's flights delayed Dylan's tried to call you his flight is delayed is everything okay and then there's a gap of time where I assume Dylan was to his mum like it's fine mum I'm on the plane and then she's like mark have you picked him up and he's like he didn't turn up like are you fucking serious elaine follows this up with uh the patience of a saint in my opinion um is his flight delayed again is that why exclamation mark preceded by a question mark and mark just says i don't know yeah i would or i would be in the car he is he's the worst yeah truly i really tried to write this in my head i thought in a way that we weren't giving away everything that we thought about mark redwine but clearly i have failed so no i'm it's

my fault i can't hold myself back we just know what's about to happen guys so sorry there is literally no tension in this episode but now after d Dylan has gone missing and he's texting Elaine, he suddenly sounds super formal in all of his messages. And then he sounds, the classic, incredibly defensive. When Elaine is panicking, he just replies to her saying things like, and this is a quote, I am extremely concerned at this point. Okay, I... No one this point okay i no one texts like that no one texts like that i also there is no turn of phrase in the history of the english language that pisses me off more than at this point which like it's it's always in such a weird like i feel like people use it in such weird instances.

Like policemen are like, oh, just mace them at this point. What? That makes no fucking sense. No. I think the one that does it for me is maybe after many a year in a corporate email environment is a, let's just touch base. I say this as someone who has been guilty of using that phrase many a time. I love all of the like, you must have seen it. And this is like so

not even fucking funny because it's so old school but it's just like all of the translations so it's like the first touch base what it actually means etc and there was such my favorite one is like when you change kind regards to just regards it's saying fuck off and die i literally wish you were dead i saw a tweet the other day that was like someone just sent an email from work and she signed off anyway comma her name and it was the best thing i've ever seen which i do love i also love um when um it's as per my previous email bitch can you fucking read yeah yeah yeah but my favorite uh this is actually from a series of hinge prompts that i have seen which is quite funny i don't know who the man was who originally started this because i'd quite like to meet him but i've seen it at least three times now and it's

still quite funny is uh one of the hinge prompts you can choose is my mantra is which is probably the worst probably the worst prompt unless it's very funny your answer is very funny it's big beats at the best get high all the time unless that is it which i which i would obviously accept hard so this person's words my mantra is could you do this if not no worries but reader there were worries if not no worries is the most british line that you could ever say actually would you like me to would you like to run over me with your car instead of doing the thing i've asked that's your job thank you that you make money doing we'll touch base on it later so anyway uh getting back to mark and elaine he's sending her all of these bullshit texts saying things like i'm very concerned at this point and when elaine asks mark

how this could have happened like how he could have lost their fucking son mark starts to say things like you're blaming me i'm trying to find him and i'm doing all that i can which is my personal favorite this is the end of the podcast because i'm dead now yeah margaret wine killed hannah allegedly i mean honestly is that how a parent would speak if their child was missing i just don't believe it surely a normal parent would be wracked with guilt and would be blaming themselves, rightly or wrongly. I'm not saying that a parent should blame themselves in that situation, but they would because that would be natural. I completely agree, but like there's no IQ test for having children. Like there are a lot of really terrible parents out there. Of course, of course. But you know, he's not painting himself in glory

at this point. Absolutely not. Not even close., in any case, after this text from Mark, Elaine freaks out. And she calls the authorities, she calls Dylan's friends, and she calls her lawyer. Now, some people, including Mark Redwine, have made a big deal, a big thing of Elaine calling her lawyer at this point. Because what they're making out is, to me, it's as if it's some way for her to dig the knife in and stir up the custody battle by ratting on Mark or something he's like of course she called her lawyer because she's doing it to you know take the kids away from me you fucking lost one of them yeah you don't you don't deserve them and as we'll go on to see Elaine had her reasons for going straight down a legal route but we'll come back to that later. It was only at 6.30 that evening that Mark called the local police. And maybe you're thinking,

well, you know, it's not that long that he waited. Dylan was only missing that morning. It's only 6.30 and he does have friends in the area, etc. But the thing that should have rung alarm bells was that Dylan hadn't sent a single text message or answered one single call since 9.37 the night before. This is a 13 year old boy. His phone is missing too. And this isn't some like a particularly interesting personality trait, but everyone who knew him was like, oh, he was always on his phone. So is everybody. But what I mean is like, there's no way that a 13 year old would be gone for that long and not send one text not send one call none of his friends have heard from him so where would he be of course that's suspicious absolutely so yeah if you have to ask yourself we know that Dylan wasn't that keen on coming down to Durango

and we know he wasn't that keen on hanging out with his dad but when you look at the text that Dylan had been sending in the lead up to his trip there, he had been excited about seeing his childhood friends. So where would he have gone on his own and why? Dylan's belongings were also missing from Mark's house, including his fishing rod. Mark kept telling the police that Dylan must have gone off fishing and maybe got lost somehow. Like we said, the area that Mark lived in was very isolated and rugged. It's all forests and mountains and if someone didn't know where they were going they could easily get lost. But Elaine was adamant that that couldn't have been what happened. Dylan didn't even like fishing. He couldn't even tie his own line. Elaine and Dylan, unlike Mark and Dylan,

were very close. But caveat, as much as a mum can be with her 13-year-old son, he's definitely got some secrets she doesn't know about. But looking at their texts, she was constantly checking in on him during his journey. And Dylan always replied to her. On the day he was leaving, Elaine was in classic mum mode, telling Dylan that she was proud of him for making the journey to go and see his dad on his own, and for doing so well keeping in touch with her. And she's really cute, saying things like, you're flying like a pro, which I'm sure would have made teenage Dylan feel cringe. But he always replied to his mum.

Until that is, the evening of the 18th of November. The day he got to his dad's. Elaine texted Dylan at 7.20pm, saying that she missed him already, and then again at 10.09, asking if he was okay. This time, there was no reply from Dylan. The next day, at 12.07pm, Elaine texted Dylan, saying, I miss you, how are you? Nothing. And then, at 2.35pm, Elaine messaged Dylan,

please be safe, son, and again, nothing. With the police now involved and Dylan having been gone all night, the search intensified. An authority soon discovered more worrying news. Dylan's phone still hadn't been used, at all. Elaine is now, obviously, beside herself, and she begins to accuse Mark of having done something to Dylan. When the police talk to Mark, he says that he hasn't got a clue what's going on.

He says that he and Dylan hadn't argued, nothing had happened. According to Mark, like he said, Dylan had been asleep, with the TV on and Nickelodeon running, when he'd last seen him. He said nothing was out of the ordinary. And this made Elaine even more suspicious because she knew her son and she knew that he hadn't watched Nickelodeon for years. He's 13, he's watching MTV. And she says this in an interview we'll talk about later where she's like,

you don't even know your son well enough to lie because you wouldn't have been watching nickelodeon no 13 year old is watching nickelodeon no in the world no unless it's kenan and cal yes i don't know when i started moving away from that kind of thing and into more like mtv i didn't have sky no i just had poor provision no me too actually me too, actually. Me too. So going to a friend's house if they had Cartoon Network, that was like nirvana. But anyway, Mark is making himself look more and more like he's lying. And then another ex-wife of Mark's, a woman named Betsy Horvitz, also had her doubts about Mark.

She came forward and told police that she thought Mark absolutely could have harmed Dylan. Because, she said, when they got divorced and went through their own difficult custody battle over their two children, Mark had apparently told Betsy's sister, and this is a quote, I would kill the kids before I let her have them. Dad of the year. Yeah, I mean, so much of this story is like Mark Redwine, stop talking. Yeah. And Mark had made it absolutely no secret how angry he was that Elaine had been given full custody of their kids. So again, you can see that there is a

motivation there being hinted at by Betsy. Betsy also revealed on camping trips that she and Mark had taken when they were married. He had allegedly told her that if he ever needed to hide a body, he would do so in the mountains. That's a red flag. What? Imagine going on a camping holiday with your partner

and he's like, this is where I'd hide a body. I would probably say that. Again, Mark Redwine, please just pick up your phone and Google a picture of him and watch any 10 second clip of him speaking. This man has no sense of humor. Okay, I think I probably wouldn't say, oh, this is where I would hide a body.

I would just explain all the reasons why the mountain is a good place to hide a body. And then you also probably wouldn't say, and if you try to take our kids away from me, I will fucking kill them before I let you take them. Yes, I would not say that. Betsy's history with Mark was part of the reason behind why we suspect that

Elaine called the police herself and why she called her lawyers. Mark also had a track record of not returning his children, the ones that he had with Elaine and Betsy, on time after court-ordered visits. In each case, the police had he had with Elaine and Betsy, on time after court ordered visits. In each case, the police had to be called, and it was only then that Mark had given the kids back. But he always just claimed that it was a mistake or an oversight. Buy a watch.

You can set an alarm on your phone. But the thing is, he's so obviously doing it on purpose. He loves to basically fuck with people that's the vibe you get with mark but despite elaine and betsy's suspicions the police just thought that dylan had run away from home mark had also told them the only thing that could have upset dylan was that he had seen some custody or court summons papers that mark had left out again terrible dad points you don't leave that shit lying around for your kid to see. How inconsiderate. And this runaway theory was bolstered when a local postal worker came forward

saying that she'd seen two boys walking along the road near Mark's house on the day that Dylan had vanished. This witness, who knew Mark Redwine, apparently thought to herself, Oh, that's Dylan. As the days passed, things looked worse and worse for Dylan. On the 24th and 25th of November, so a week after he had gone missing, cadaver dogs picked up a scent in the woods near his dad's house. But when the search parties, including divers and sonar

equipment, were brought in, they found nothing. So now the FBI got involved and tensions between Mark and Elaine hit the roof. Elaine was convinced that Mark had done something to Dylan. He was angry about the divorce, the fact that Elaine had got full custody and that he had to pay child support for kids that never even wanted to see him. Elaine also claimed that he was pissed because she was in a new relationship and this was his way to get back at her. But Mark pointed the finger right back at Elaine, saying that she likely abducted Dylan herself, in an attempt to frame him and take his kids away for good.

False flag operation. Exactly. I've recently learned what that term means, and now I can't shut up. But in reality, neither parent was considered a suspect. In fact, the police had basically nothing. On the 29th of November, authorities did search Mark's house, where they found Dylan's blood on the corner of a coffee table, on the floor of the living room and on the sofa.

But most of these samples were mixed and only one spot could be positively identified as being Dylan's blood only. So it didn't seem like it was that much blood. And after all, he was a teenage boy. His blood could have ended up there in a number of different ways. I think the first week I was living in my flat,

I cut my hand open with a knife. My blood's all over that place. You could gongirl someone. My blood's all over that place. You could gone girl someone. Truly, it's crossed my mind. So that leaves our police department slamming into yet another dead end and the case went cold. In February 2013, so that's three months after Dylan disappeared, desperate for answers, more awareness of the case and for some engagement from her ex-husband elaine called mr moneybags worth more than beyonce dr phil i'm sure she didn't call him directly i'm sure she spoke to

a researcher maybe a producer possibly a runner who knows and this was the first time elaine and mark were meeting face to face since their son vanished which in itself is a very weird vibe and what's i mean mean, this whole episode, the whole fucking, I don't even want to call him doctor because I've recently discovered that actually he's not allowed to practice anything. And I think apparently he's not really allowed to call himself a doctor.

I'm not sure. It's very confusing. Every time I hear about it, it's a different answer. I know, this is the thing I'm not really sure. But anyway, let's just call it that. And I did actually watch this episode before we even decided to cover this case on here I think I watched it like nearer the time that it actually happened it's fucking wild it's like two episodes it's like a two-parter because

it's so fucking crazy I honestly I so badly we're gonna talk about the show we're gonna talk about some of the things that come out on the show. I desperately wish we could play clips, but we cannot because Dr. Phil will blow us off the internet. Yeah. There will just be a red-handed shaped hole in the internet. We quite like being on the internet. It's gone well for us so far. So we'd like to stay there. So we're not about to take on Dr. Phil. We will die. No ma'am. No. No way, no how. No. I apologise for even questioning whether you're a doctor. Please don't sue us. Some of the Dr Phil episode is as expected. Elaine confronts Mark saying that she thinks he's done something to Dylan. And it's actually quite heartbreaking because Elaine is so

clearly devastated and Mark comes across as ice cold. And we know that people deal with grief differently. That's a baseline fact. But that doesn't really seem like what's going on with mark he barely talks about dylan instead he's more focused on attacking his ex-wife and deflecting he has no input to give at all even though he had been the last person to see dylan he has no input to give at all even though he was the last person to see d, his son alive and his son Dylan went missing from his house. He has nothing to say. He has like nothing. He has no answers, no explanations, no thoughts, no inklings, no idea. And the things he does say make absolutely no fucking sense.

And interestingly, I thought Elaine and Corey, who is, as we said, Dylan's older brother, both talk about Dylan in the present tense. So if anybody's watched the Dr. Phil show, you know that when a guest comes on, they do like a little VT before where they've been interviewing them beforehand, and then they edit it all together. And in these bits, Elaine and Corey are both like, we just want to find Dylan. We want to find Dylan. We want to bring him home. I can't wait to see him again. They're talking about him in the present tense. Elaine even says he's 14 years old now because his birthday was while he was missing. Mark, on the other hand,

guess what I'm about to say? It's not going to be much of a shocker. He talks about Dylan in the intro of the Dr. Phil show in the past tense. He says things like, and I shit you not, this is a quote.

I wish I could play it. I can't. I loved that boy. He was great. Jesus Christ. If I'm missing for three months and all my dad has to say is, I loved that boy. He was great. Jesus Christ. If I'm missing for three months and all my dad has to say is, I loved that girl. She was great.

He'll say, I told her she shouldn't have worn a blue swimming costume. I told her they'd never find her body. But she was great. I've actually, just now, this very moment, thought of your perfect job. Oh. A grammar murder detective. Where you just pick apart the way people talk about people that are dead and you'll be like, it was them. Oh my God.

The tenses are all over the place. Someone give me a show, please. I love it. I love it. That is the perfect job. You're right. Grammar detective, astronaut, dino blogger. Cannot fucking wait.

Cannot fucking wait. Cannot fucking wait. Excellent. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall, that was no protection. Claudine Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime and there's much more to come. This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On the Media. To listen, subscribe to On the Media wherever you get your podcasts.

He was hip-hop's biggest mogul, the man who redefined fame, fortune, and the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Sean Diddy Combs. Diddy built an empire and lived a life most people only dream about. Everybody know ain't no party like a Diddy party, so. Yeah, that's what's up. But just as quickly as his empire rose, it came crashing down. Today I'm announcing the unsealing of a three-count indictment, charging Sean Combs with racketeering conspiracy, sex trafficking, interstate transportation for prostitution.

I was f***ed up. I hit rock bottom. But I made no excuses. I'm disgusted. I'm so sorry. Until you're wearing an orange jumpsuit, it's not real. Now it's real. From his meteoric rise to his shocking fall from grace, from law and crime, this is The Rise and Fall of Diddy. Listen to The Rise and Fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery Plus. And it's not only the past tense moments that make Mark look incredibly suspicious on the show. He also does a lot of distancing from Dylan. And it's not only the past tense moments that make Mark look incredibly suspicious on the show. He also does a lot of distancing from Dylan. He refers to him by saying things like, that boy, which is incredibly uncomfortable.

Yeah, truly. And when he does try to seem sad, saying things like, and this is a quote, it hurts me deeply. It tears me up. I'm lost in this world. It comes across as so disingenuous. Again, I know that people talk differently. They grieve differently. They're in shock differently, but everything he says seems so disingenuous. And Elaine just looks fucking ruined. If you can watch it, I did find part two. There's two parts. I can't find episode one,

but I found part two on YouTube. I'll post it in the episode description below, but it might have been taken down by now. But if you do watch it, you'll notice that Mark so clearly, to me, and this is just my opinion, so clearly seems to be smirking throughout the entire thing. I hate a smirker. He's such a smirker. You just to punch him and you could say you could argue that he's maybe smirking or smiling like that because he's nervous like he is in a very like confrontational situation i mean sure people cameras do things to people that's the camera does uh lots of things apart from at 10 pounds and also he is on stage in front of a live audience with his ex-wife accusing him of having murdered his son. So, okay, you could say that.

But to me, it comes across not like nerves, but it comes across to me like thinly veiled contempt. Right. It comes across like thinly veiled contempt for his ex-wife. And also the classic look of a bit of a duping delight, which we've talked about on the show before. It's like this kind of uncontrollable smile that people who have committed atrocities and crimes and they are getting away with it or they think they're getting away with it are unable to stop themselves. Almost like the corners of their mouths tilt upwards. And that's kind of what it feels like. He just whatever it is, he can't stop doing it. And he also can't stop talking.

And some of the things that Mark says on the show are quite weird, including the rather bold statement that he makes where he says, quote, we all have to ask ourselves why he's gone. And we're all suspects here. But that just wasn't true. At the time he, Elaine and Corey, at the time that he, Elaine and Corey appeared on the Dr. Phil show, the police had no suspects. None of them were suspects at this point.

Police certainly didn't think Elaine or Corey were suspects. So the fact that he's like, we're all suspects here when none of them were suspects is such a weird thing to say. Well, it's like when incredibly rich people during the first lockdown were like, we're all insane, but nope, you're in a yacht. I'm in a paddling pool with a hole in it literally hannah was in a paddling pool with a hole in her i loved it this dr phil episode is uh cringeworthy from top to bottom tip to toe head to tail and elaine accuses mark of being controlling and she says that she knows him and how he hates to lose according to elaine mark's first instinct is always to hurt or get back at anyone he thinks has wronged him

which is very common in um criminals in general but killers especially the sense of justice because it's that kind of black and white thinking and it's that you know again we're not dogs i can't diagnose mark with psychopathy or anything like that but it's that, you know, again, we're not dogs. I can't diagnose Mark with psychopathy or anything like that. But it's that kind of predatory behavior of anyone who's in their way or anyone who's wronged them and feeling like it's justified to take them out. Mark certainly seems to think that Elaine has wronged him because he accuses her of alienating the boys from him. I think you've done a pretty good job of that yourself, Mark. On the show, Corey won't even call Mark Dad. He just calls him Mark.

So yeah, it's not Elaine who did the alienating. Mark was quite capable of managing that on his own. Corey also talks about Mark having a clear motivation for killing Dylan. That's a direct quote. And when asked what this is, Corey looks like he's holding something back and then just says that it was because Dylan didn't respect Mark and didn't look up to him, which infuriated their father. When you watch it, it's so obvious. They like say, why?

Why would you say that he's got a clear motive? And Corey, it looks like he goes to say something and it almost looks like he pulls himself back into his chair and then just says, well, you know, it was because it's because Dylan didn't look up to him and why I hated that. That's why. But you can tell he's holding something back. And we will go on to discover, together holding hands, that Corey was indeed holding something back. But I'm sorry for blue balling you, my friends. We are going to have to get back to that in a little while.

If you have any eating to do, I would advise you to do it in the next 10 minutes. So the rest of the awful Dr. Phil appearance centres mainly around revelations of physical abuse levelled at Mark from his ex-wife, Betsy, and also of Elaine begging him to tell the truth. But what's so clear is that Mark just cannot be reached. He really just looks like he absolutely hates her and like he's enjoying Elaine's torment. When Elaine then asks her flinty husband, where's your emotion? Because he looks completely emotionless throughout his time on Dr. Phil. Mark replies, what emotion are you trying to get out of me that is the most infuriating response the man is is i want you to have a human emotional reaction to a situation that is very distressing

like when people like i don't know what you what you want me to say like yes you do i love you let's get married let's run off into the sunset together so after this elaine and because mark's accusing elaine of kidnapping dylan and dylan and elaine is obviously accusing mark of having done something to dylan so the pair of them agreed to take polygraph tests on the dr phil show now obviously we all know dear listeners that polygraph tests are bullshit like we've talked about many a time on the show, and if you want more details, buy the book, that there is no universal response to deception, and certainly not a physical one.

So the idea that a machine could detect that is illogical. All it can really detect is kind of stress. It can just detect if you're clenching your butthole or not. Yeah. While we all know it's bullshit, I do think there is something to be said for when someone doesn't know it's bullshit and when they're asked to take a polygraph test start acting incredibly anxious about it and not wanting to do it at all which is the worst thing you could possibly do yes unclench those buttholes my friend he cannot he

cannot um so i think it's probably worth mentioning so mark basically says that he'll do it and then he goes into the testing room and then starts to say that he's feeling unwell, that he can't do it. He hasn't slept. He's been drinking. And I think the main thing to state is the camera just is on Mark's face the entire time as he's saying all of this. I understand it's a high stress situation, but Elaine does hers. Mark's like, he doesn't look like a man who's ill. He looks like a man who's terrified and filled with anger, in my opinion. But great, exactly what you want in a father. Precisely.

Terrified and filled with anger. Who's also not been sleeping and drinking heavily. As you can imagine, after this Dr. Phil special hit the screens of the nation, it stirred up a lot of exposure. But again, after a while, the case went quiet. Until June 2013, that is, seven months after Dylan had vanished, when in the mountains surrounding Mark Redwine's home, police found a size 7 Nike Jordan, a sock, and some clothes. Cadaver dogs were brought in and they led investigators to Dylan's partial remains. However, all that was left of Dylan by this point was bones, and they were found

scattered just off a dirt track on an isolated and rough part of the mountain. Dylan's skull was missing, and because of this, analysis of his remains was unable to definitively say what had been the cause of death. The only thing that they could conclude was that it was likely not an animal attack, presumably because Dylan's bones were still intact. Also, the biggest animals in the area are bears, which are definitely dangerous, but in November, when Dylan vanished, they would have been hibernating. After the remains were found, another search of Mark Redwine's house and his white Dodge truck was carried out in March 2014. This time they found Dylan's debit card and

an itinerary from his trip. Weird since Mark had always said that he had nothing of Dylan's. In June 2015 Elaine filed a lawsuit against Mark for wrongful death. Nothing really came of this at first, but on the 19th of August 2015, so just a few months later, three years after Dylan had vanished, Mark Redwine was finally officially named as a person of interest in the disappearance of his son. And a couple of months later, there was finally another breakthrough. In November 2015, a couple hiking off trail found Dylan's skull around five miles from where his other remains had been discovered. And I also love that apparently the wife of the couple was a true crime fan.

So when they spotted it, she's like, oh my God, it's a human skull. And she was like, don't touch anything. Call the police. Good for her. Good for her. Yeah, for sure. So the skull, when it was examined,

showed clear signs of both blunt and sharp force trauma. The skull also indicated that Dylan had suffered skull fractures at the time of his death. The examining pathologist said, quote, I can't say that the cause of death is known. The only thing I know with reasonable certainty is that there is a perimortem fracture on the skull and there are cut marks on the skull. Cut marks that would not have come from scavenging animals. Finally, on the 22nd of July 2017, five years after Dylan vanished, Mark Redwine was arrested and charged with second-degree murder and child abuse resulting in death.

And the trial was about to get wild. When it eventually got going, that is. Thanks to everybody's best buddy, COVID, there were major delays and even a mistrial. And it was also postponed because Mark's lawyer was arrested on a domestic abuse charge. That's who you want. Well, trash attracts trash, I suppose. At trial, Mark and his defense team stuck to their old story. Dylan had just run off or gone to visit his friends and had either been attacked by a wild animal or murdered by a stranger.

That old chestnut. There were immediate issues with this. Firstly, how did Dylan arrange to meet his friends if he hadn't sent a single text after 9.37 p.m. the night before? And also, if he had just walked to his friend's house, as Mark said, well, the closest person would have been a boy named Tristan who lived nearly six miles away. Would Dylan really have tried to walk six miles in November in like the wilderness of Colorado? And also Dylan's body was found without his wallet or his backpack and his debit card was found at Mark's house.

So that doesn't really fit with someone who's run away. So regarding the cadaver dogs which are triggered in Mark's house on his clothes, in his truck and in his washing machine, well, according to the defence defense this was just junk science and as for the blood found in Mark's house the defense said that such an infinitesimally small amount of blood that that's the kind of amount of blood that's likely to be found in anyone's house so it's inconsequential and it didn't help because the blood samples were mixed and only one sample was exactly Dylan's like that did muddy the waters a bit but the thing is I do think this is worth mentioning because these police of this person testified um because Mark really didn't help

himself with the blood situation a Laplanta detective testified in court that during his many interviews with Mark Mark had repeatedly changed his story about where the blood had come from. First, he said that it was a cold sore that Dylan had had on his lip that was oozing blood. How much blood does a cold sore ooze, for God's sake? To spill onto the sofa and onto the floor? It's impossible. Like, it's just, no, absolutely not. I've seen some gnarly cold sores in my time. No. It's, it's, no, he really is not. It's as you say, Mark, stop talking. Yeah, Mark, stop talking. Another problem with the cold sore story was that the detectives, when Mark told them that that's where he thought the blood had come from, told him, we can check with Elaine, Mark's mum, whether he had a cold sore or not when she put him on a plane. And then Mark changes his story and said that Dylan didn't probably have a cold sore after all. And then he goes on to say that actually he and Dylan had been throwing a football around and that Dylan accidentally got hit in the face with

it and that's why he'd started to bleed. Mark and Dylan do not have the type of relationship where they're throwing a football around. And also it contradicted what he had said previously was that Dylan hadn't been injured and he didn't know where the blood had come from. So why is he now saying this? Nothing makes sense, and obviously the prosecution went after these inconsistencies hard. And they also had some pretty damning testimony up their sleeves. Brandon, Mark's eldest son from another marriage, took the stand and said that Mark had called him on the day that Dylan's skull had been found. And apparently he was totally emotionless and kept saying things like blunt force trauma.

According to Brandon, Mark was telling him what had happened to Dylan, even though the family had no information at all at this stage as to how Dylan had died. The court also heard from a bank employee who testified that in January 2013, Mark moved $2,000 from Dylan's savings account into his. Other witnesses also spotted an ATV that looked a lot like Mark's, driving around up in the spot where Dylan's remains were found a few days before they were discovered. And there was yet more suspicious behaviour. The area's deputy fire chief testified that on the night of the search for Dylan, as rescue teams had been scouring the woods around Mark Redwine's house,

at around 11pm, Mark had turned all the lights off in his place. What? He's not helping himself. He really is not. He really is causing a lot more trouble for himself than he needs to. Even if you put aside the fact that most parents at this point would probably have been out in the woods looking for their child, screaming their child's name. The idea that you wouldn't leave all of the lights on in your house, whether you look at it kind of practically or symbolically is very, very odd. Now, of course, all of this is just circumstantial evidence really

the cadaver dogs and the blood okay but there wasn't really anything specifically concrete. However as we've said on this show many a time circumstantial evidence is evidence and Mark Redwine's behavior general lack of answers or interest in anything plus the fact that Dylan was with him and then went missing from his house, does make him look quite guilty. Now, as you guys will probably all also know, is that at trial, the prosecution do not have to offer a motive for why they think the defendant committed the crime. Motive is not necessary. But generally speaking, the prosecution will offer up a narrative to

paint a picture and build a solid case to convince the jury so although a motive is not needed the prosecution do often do it because it's very helpful it's quite hard to convince a jury of why something happened or that something happened if you can't even hint at why you think it happened and the motive that the prosecution at the trial of mark redwine brought up well it's a doozy the word doozy is another one that i dislike just like it just doesn't hit my ear right if you would all care to cast your minds back to the dr ph Phil episode that we went through earlier, you might remember us saying that it felt like Corey Redwine was holding something back when he claimed that his father had a clear motivation to kill Dylan. Corey didn't expand on the show, presumably because

it was part of the agreement to get Mark Redwine on the stage. Obviously, such promises are not made when you're on trial for murder and Corey used his testimony as an opportunity to go to town on his dad. This is where the no eating comes into play. In 2011 Corey and Dylan had both been on a road trip with Mark. One night they were in a hotel room. Mark was asleep and the boys were on his laptop and on this laptop they found some images they were of their dad mark dressed in a red bra wearing a soiled nappy diaper for our american listeners and then it gets quite a lot worse i'm afraid there were photos of mark eating the feces in the nappy and rubbing the contents of the nappy all over his mouth and

face thank you so much for putting that in my book you're welcome cory and dylan were obviously mortified cory even apparently took photos of these pictures on his phone now i really just tried to understand but it didn't seem that clear to me when the boys actually confronted their father with these images, like whether they did it that night or whether they did it later. But according to Corey, his and Dylan's relationship with their dad was shattered that night. In August 2012, a year after the photos were discovered, Corey, and we know that this happened, so they must have confronted him by this point,

texted his dad, calling him a, quote, shit-eating coward, and also telling him, you are what you eat. And it was also around this time, so just a few months before he disappeared, that Dylan had texted Corey and asked him to send him those photos

so he could show him, meaning Mark, who he really is. It's not clear if Corey sent the images or not. At first he said he didn't, and then he said he did. If Dylan did confront his dad with these pictures, or try and blackmail him with them to get out of maybe going to visit him anymore, could this have been the clear motivation that Mark had apparently had for killing Dylan, according to Corey, as he had hinted at on Dr. Phil. Well, that was the narrative that the prosecution went with,

that Dylan had confronted Mark about the pictures, and in a violent rage, Mark had beaten and stabbed Dylan in the head and killed him. The court was also shown the photos of Mark in the nappies. Basically, on courts.state.co.us, you can get access to all of the exhibits that were used in this trial. Like, it's all, like, freely available. And I did go on there, and I'll leave a link below

in the episode description. She also forced me to look at them too, by the way. I did, I did. Well, if it was going to be in my head. We're nothing if not a team. Yeah. And if you really do want to see these pictures of Mark Redwine, then cast your eyes to exhibit 17 and onwards. And good luck. We can't know for sure if this was the reason, as Mark refused to say anything. The defence couldn't claim it wasn't Mark in the pictures or that Dylan hadn't seen them,

so they just said that the photos had nothing to do with anything. The defence argued that any negative feelings Dylan had towards his dad, because they also couldn't pretend that that wasn't the case, was purely down to the contentious custody battle between his parents and Elaine alienating her son from his father. According to the defence, Dylan had also brought up the pictures with Mark before and Mark hadn't murdered him then, which at best is weak reasoning, at worst completely ridiculous.

And it's especially ridiculous when you consider that two of Elaine's friends who went to Mark's house shortly after Dylan had vanished made fun of Mark about the pictures and he chased them off his property with a log. Yeah so he's not like totally chill about it. And it's not like nobody knows. No no no no no. So in the end the jury were convinced by the prosecution and on the 16th of July 2021, nine years after Dylan went missing, they found Mark Redwine guilty and he was sentenced to 48 years in prison. Mark Redwine still continues to claim that he's innocent but I have to say in my opinion I do think the right decision was made. So we at Red Handed Towers are pretty sure that

the murder was probably not pre-planned, but a heat of the moment incident. Most likely because of those now infamous pictures permanently burned into my brain. Dylan was 13, and if you read his texts and social posts, he was a typical bolshie kid. Normal 13-year-olds give their parents rage-fuelled tongue lashings. And after finding those pictures, given the issues between Mark and his mum Elaine, and also since Dylan had been forced to go and stay with his dad against his will, it's likely that Dylan let rip and that Mark, known for his temper, lost it. According to those around him, Mark was self-centred, controlling, shame-filled and had a history of failed relationships. So he wasn't exactly winning any awards for being the most well-adjusted person on the planet,

as well as losing every year at the Dad Awards. Now, let's talk about the pictures. Because obviously, look, we're not here to, like, kink-shame anybody. You want to do that, like, you know, do what you want, that's fine. But the condition of coprophagia, which is the practice or desire to eat feces, or the paraphilia of coprophilia, which is, of course, gaining sexual pleasure from the eating of feces, and it causing the person engaging in the behavior or someone else involved distress, are generally considered as behaviors warranting treatment. That's not me saying that. That is psychologists and psychiatrists

saying that it's not like, it's not like the best. But I guess the more interesting questions to ask, not so much like why was Mark Redwine doing it? Because like, we don't know. It's just what turned him on, clearly. But why did Mark Redwine take those pictures he seems in those pictures to be on his own so he's taking them to then look at those pictures and relive it i mean maybe maybe but if so why on earth did he put those pictures on a laptop and then let his sons use that laptop he's sending them to someone of course why else do you take pictures of yourself yeah yeah yeah whatever happened the murder of dylan redwine is such a sad sad story elaine is obviously destroyed and unable to square in her own head how mark could have done this

and we thought what she said after the trial was so heartbreaking she said i thought he was safe he was with his dad so it's pretty clear that mark did kill dylan as to why probably partly for the confrontation that we suspect did go down but maybe also as a way to punish dylan for siding with his mum and also a way to punish Elaine for leaving him. So there you go. There you have it. The story of a tragic death and some really unpleasant images that we can never forget. No, so good luck with that. If you must, follow the link below

and take a look at those pictures. You know, I'm not going to suggest for or against it. You do you. And have fun and live with the consequences. Don't come crawling back to us no don't do that don't do that go check out Cine Society's exclusively on Spotify come follow us at patreon.com slash red handed we can get your hands eyes ears feet whatever else you want on loads of delicious bonus content from us every single week have yourself a merry Christmas in

about six weeks time I don't know what i'm saying i'm so tired thank you so much and uh thank you to everyone who came on tour does that have happened by now what was it like tell us we don't know yet yes yes um unless it unless you had a horrible time and got diarrhea or food poisoning or something don't tell us that's all i've got on my mind now let's get off this topic bye. We'll see you next time. I'm Jake Warren. And in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now, exclusively on Wondery+. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey

to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part, three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free

on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either. Until I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life.

I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness, and inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more. Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained.

Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.