RedHanded - Episode 221 - Koh Tao: Murder Island

Episode Date: November 11, 2021

In September 2015 the brutalised bodies of British backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were found on the tropical island paradise of Koh Tao. The island off the coast of mainland Thailand, has long been a hotspot for partygoers lured in by the cheap alcohol, stunning beaches, and of course its infamous full moon parties. With the whole world watching, two suspects for the brutal murders were quickly found, but with 20% of the country's income at stake and a background of political unrest, the investigation was far from faultless. Become a patron: Patreon Order a copy of the book here (US & Canada): Order on Wellesley Books Order on Amazon.com Order a copy of the book here (UK, Ireland, Europe, NZ, Aus): Order on Amazon.co.uk Order on Foyles Follow us on social media: Instagram Twitter Visit our website: Website Contact us: Contact See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sruti.

And I am Hannah, apparently. And this is Red Handed. Coming to you from the past. Or the future. No, you from the past or the future no the past definitely not the future we never manage to pre-record episodes we usually record them on a Friday

and then release them on Wednesday for patrons and then Thursday for everybody else so this is a minor treat for us because we are about to go on tour but by the time you're listening to this the tour has already happened and hopefully it was a raging success wild reviews newspapers go mad tony award olivier etc who knows maybe they even gave us a nobel peace prize at the very least we deserve a brit

i mean have you seen the people they give that to and i'm talking about the nobel peace prize but moving swiftly on so if you came to the tour thank you so much we hope you had a great time if you didn't don't worry hopefully we'll be on tour again soon coming to a city near you I can't say anything more than that but if you are like maybe I want some more red-handed until you do come to a city near me you might consider buying the book because we bought we bought a book we wrote a book you might consider heading on over to spotify to listen to our brand new spotify exclusive podcast called sinister societies where we talk about all manner of secretive organizations clandestine clubs who are up to no good clandestine clubs good they wanted to call

it killer clubs and we were like, no, that's stupid. So yeah, head on over to Spotify where we talk about cults who exist in plain sight and our retirement plan and Leah Remini. So hop on over to that. But for now, we're going to hop on over to Thailand. Yes, we are. Because every year, millions of tourists flock to Thailand for the tropical weather, the beautiful beaches, the thriving nightlife, and for some to indulge in their worst

impulses, far, far from home. Many Westerners, no doubt, travel to the land of smiles, as it's called, inspired by movies like Alex Garlandland's the beach hoping to find themselves in paradise cruising along scenic mountainside roads on a scooter before they spend the evening flirting with a pretty french girl in a neon lit beach bar the beach from the film the beach got so destroyed by tourists after that film came out that it's just like an actual fucking hellhole now which isn't that so sad that is really sad really good film though apart from that weird video game bit that bit lost me but it is a good film anything with tilda swinton in it honestly i'll just devour love me some tilda what has she been bad in nothing that's the answer so obviously others also make their way to thailand for the famous slash infamous full

moon parties and also of course the many many elephant sanctuaries don't go to elephant sanctuaries people don't do it no just don't do whatever they say the elephants are having a bad time they are i just think the basic rule you can tell yourself and like i feel like most people know this by this point especially our listeners but if you are close enough to a wild animal that you can touch it it's probably abuse yeah that's the rule that you need most likely and of course people also go to Thailand for things like psychedelic mushroom milkshakes because that's I think that's I've not been to Thailand actually well I spent one night in Bangkok but which sounds like a terrible sounds like a terrible film but uh no I haven't but I did eat a psychedelic mushroom pizza in Cambodia did you I did and is it a coincidence that it happened

the night before I crashed my motorbike and gave myself these scars on my face which are barely noticeable thank you thank you um I tried very hard to look after them if anybody would like some top tips on how to avoid scarage. Jungle hospital. Jungle hospital, get yourself some scar away padding. Use like the silicon pads that they use on people who have suffered burns. Stick that on, then keep it out the sun. Do not let the sun touch that motherfucker. But anyway, psychedelic mushroom milkshakes I assume are lots of fun psychedelic mushroom pizzas when you don't know the mushrooms are psychedelic more problematic more issuous that is quite issuous uh hallucinogenics terrify me i've never gone near them i'll never say never but like i know what's in my head i don't need more of it i don't need to go in there no that door firmly

shut that's fair enough i'm also quite scared of. But I would say I had a very funny evening, but it would have been, I would say, a hundred times more fun had I been prepared for it. Consenting. Instead of just me and my best friend in a hostel room lying on our individual beds saying, is the room spinning? Yeah, the room's spinning. Why is the room spinning? And then I got on a motorbike the next day and crashed it. Anyway, so obviously people go there for all of these myriad reasons. And I think much like the stories that I have told many a time on this podcast, naivety is the word that comes to mind when you think of these kind of travellers. Because

I have been one of them and it is very accurate a word. Because underneath this veneer of paradise, Thailand is quite possibly one of the most dangerous tourist destinations in the world. But this isn't common knowledge. Whether that's due to the poor news coverage of tourist deaths, police mislabelling countless suspicious deaths as suicides, or because of a conspiracy of silence by Thai authorities in order not to affect the tourist industry, which accounts for a whopping 20% of the nation's GDP.

20%? Wowzers. That's a lot. Yeah. A percent. Wowzers trousers. According to the figures released by the British government in the space of just one year between 2011 and 2012,

296 British citizens died in Thailand. But the figure is likely much higher than that because a lot of deaths go totally unrecorded by Thai authorities. I was shocked when we dug that up in the research. Yeah. Almost 300 tourists dying in one year. And if you think that's bad, it's about to get a lot worse. Because in the 12 months leading up to the 1st of April 2013, so that's between 2012 and 2013, there were 389 British deaths in Thailand. And in the same period leading up to the 1st of April 2014, there were 362 deaths and 267 hospitalisations of British tourists.

Also, we're obviously only talking about British tourists here. If we chuck in the Europeans, the Americans, the Canadians, everybody else. My God, what? Honestly, I didn't know that Thailand was so death riddled. No, I had no idea. I'm actually planning on going to Thailand next year. Oh yeah, you are. Because I've never been. I've only been to Vietnam, which I enjoyed very much. But I'm looking for... I went to Vietnam straight after I'd finished my contract in Korea.

And I would like a different type of holiday this time. Because that time, I just got really, really drunk on the beach all day. And then I got stung by a jellyfish. And it was also so hot that like walking from the hotel across the street to the shop, you're pissing with sweat. It was so hot. So hot that I was, my friend who I was there with, we had an argument. I can't remember what it was about.

And I don't do this anymore, but I was shouting. I was so furious with her about something. I wonder what it was. Anyway, it was so hot and we were having this argument that I took all of my clothes off, stood in the shower, the freezing shower, and continued to shower. Continued to have this argument.

She was shouting too, it wasn't just me. Had someone had a psychedelic pizza by accident? Maybe, maybe that's what it was. A psychedelic Dairy Leeic dairy sandwich psychedelic ban me somewhere in vietnam but enough about vietnam and back to thailand welcome to ko tao one of the smallest tourist islands of thailand's ko samui archipelago ko tao roughly translates to turtle island but it also has another name, Murder Island. I mean, I don't know if I should tell the story.

It involves some drug use. Let's just say I was in the Philippines, which is known for possibly some type of very casual drug. Heroin. possibly some type of very casual drug heroin i thought it'd be very funny to sit on a balcony all day and stare at a valley and pretend that i was a one-woman tourist board for this village and tell everybody that was there they all seemed to think it was very funny but you know we were all on heroin and i'm gonna say that murder island i would have vetoed for a tourist name don't go with murder island people don't like being murdered famously you know famously do you know what they do love what heroin i wasn't i think we can say turtles

call it turtle island turtle heroin island heroin turtle island i don't fucking like turtles remember i got almost got bitten by that one yeah cerise had a cerise's name so my nemesis is someone trying to sell bottled water on tiktok but cerise's nemesis is a turtle that tried to eat her it was honestly outrageous i'll talk about it on under the duvet which always is also where you can find out about hannah's bottled water um fury but yeah it's not the best name and honestly i know i've already said this but i really didn't know that thailand had this reputation not that thailand has it was obviously loads of people go there that's why so many people are dying there and like i wouldn't be scared to go to thailand i would love to go to thailand

particularly the north like chiang mai chiang rai area but i always think if you're going to be like where's dangerous places i'd say it's places like i'd be scared to go to like Australia because everything's trying to kill you like all of the wildlife is trying to murder you or I would say like going to you know I'm not going to go to Caracas anytime soon but I didn't know Catau yeah well this is I actually did know about this because many many many many many many moons ago we were asked to put together a pitch for a TV series. And the theme was murders abroad, British people dying abroad. So I looked it up then when we were pitching that,

literally years ago. Oh, yes. And it cropped up then. So I knew about this specific island, but I had no idea about the entirety of Thailand. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham about the entirety of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover

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this is the rise and fall of Diddy. Listen to the rise and fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery+. so for now let's go back to 2014 it was a rather eventful year for thailand because it was on the 22nd of may 2014 that the royal thai armed forces launched a coup d'etat that overthrew the caretaker government following six months of political crisis and fun little thai politics back for you, which we've been having a great time with in the office today. Thailand has had 12 coups since 1932. That's a lot of coups. It's a lot of coups.

You should just be tired, wouldn't you? I would be tired. 12 coups. 12 coups. I suppose like Vietnam was busy being occupied all the time. Vietnam's been occupied like three or four times, I think, not including the Americans. And I guess that Thailand were just cooing. So yeah, we did have a lot of fun with this.

Fun with this. A lot of research fun with this in the office today for one of our red-handed rundowns. I think it's time. It is. Things haven't been exactly politically chill in Thailand recently either. You might remember there were mass student protests that kicked off last year in 2020 and that was because the Thai king was spending all of his time hanging out in Bavaria while Thailand was being ravaged by Covid. But Bavarian holidays

aside, these demonstrations were a long time coming. Essentially the role of the Thai monarchy in politics has become an increasingly contentious issue. Because many people feel like accusations of speaking out against the royals or like disloyalty to the king or whatever has been used to suppress efforts towards a democratic society. And, you know, many people might be like, oh, is Thailand not a democracy well it has a fun mix of being both a constitutional monarchy and also having a quite powerful military dictatorship just hanging about in the background waiting to do a coup just waiting in the wings exactly ready to pounce and it's a similar situation i guess to like what we saw in nepal when we covered the nepalese royal massacre in 2020 and also what we saw play out last year so in 2020 in Myanmar so basically you have a democratic parliament to an extent and you also have a military junta that

also just like uh turns itself on and off as needed it's like uh an auxiliary it's like an organ that you don't really need but sometimes it can digest some stuff yeah it's like an organ that you don't really need, but sometimes it can digest some stuff. Yeah, it's like a really insidious version of like checks and balances. It's just like, we'll keep you in check to balance out what we want. That's basically a very basic description of what the political situation is. And needless to say that all of these coups and all of this political unrest and etc. that's been going on in Thailand has at various points led to declines in the number of foreign tourists traveling to the country and this was

particularly evident in 2014. But still there were those who weren't going to let you know some news reports of sporadic violence which by the way included shootings, bomb scares and grenades being thrown at protesters, ruin any of their Mai Tai time. So among these people were two young British backpackers travelling to the beautiful beaches of Katao in September of 2014, just a few months after the military coup had come to an end. Now I'm not judging these people, absolutely not, because I've definitely been to places where it's like, oh is everything going to be politically okay while I'm there? I don't know. And I have definitely for a long time, I know I said I wouldn't be going to Caracas for a long time, but I've wanted to go to Venezuela for a very very long time. It looks absolutely stunning, like that big like flat mountain that they've got, I think it's called like Romaine Mountain or something. Stunning. So yeah, basically

by late 2014, after the coup had happened, tourists were definitely starting to come back. I guess maybe they thought that all of the political stuff was going on in Bangkok and the Turtle Heroine Island would be fine. And two of these such tourists were Brits, David Miller and Hannah Witheridge. Hannah Witheridge was just 23 years old. She was a speech and language therapy graduate from Great Yarmouth. She'd just graduated from the University of Essex and was planning to get her master's degree after a much-needed summer holiday. David Miller was a 24-year-old civil and structural engineering graduate from Jersey which is one of the UK's channel islands and because it's basically France you cannot vote in UK elections if you live on Jersey. And David had just finished his placement at a mining company in Australia

and like Hannah he had decided he needed a break from the stress of work and he went to Thailand for the summer. Neither of them knew each other before arriving in Katao on the morning of the 12th of September but they quickly hit it off after meeting at the Ocean View bungalows where they were both staying with friends. The two groups hit it off straight away and spent the following couple of days exploring the small eight mile long island together, going diving, hiking, renting bikes and just generally lounging around on the popular Sari beach. Then on the 14th of September the group decided to go for dinner and then some drinks. CCTV footage from that evening shows Hannah and her friends making their

way to a place called Chopper's Bar, just 200 meters from the Ocean View bungalows in which they were staying. Then it shows them being joined by David and his friends. After this, at around midnight, David left his friends behind and was seen with Hannah and her friends making their way to the AC bar next door, the only bar that stayed open late. They had a few more drinks, a little dance, and then at around 1am, Hannah and David decided to call it a night. They said goodbye to their friends and made their way back to the Ocean View bungalows. This would be the last time anyone would ever see them alive again.

A few hours later, at around 5am, their partially naked, bloodied and battered bodies were found on the Siree beach by a hotel worker. David and Hannah were discovered laying just metres apart and only about 100 metres from the Ocean View bungalows. Nobody knows everything that really happened in the few hours between the pair leaving the bar and their bodies being found. But this is what we do know. Deep lacerations on David's head showed signs of blunt force trauma but the autopsy found water in his lungs making it clear that he'd actually been drowned. Hannah had suffered a similar fate but she'd also been raped which was evident from tearing on her vulva,

bruising on her perineum and a bite mark on her right nipple. Violent attacks on women in Thailand are tragically so commonplace that the UK Foreign Office actually have the following statement on their official UK government website under travel advice for Thailand and this is what it says and this is verbatim. It's shocking. It really like hannah and i both have been very lucky enough to travel quite a bit in our lives and i do check the uk foreign advice like before i i will go especially if it is a bit more of like a politically like fractious country i have never seen anything like this and this is what it says violent sexual assaults and unprovoked attacks have been reported in popular tourist destinations

including in the kosamui archipelago and krabi province these are particularly common during the monthly full moon parties and generally occur late at night near bars that's very specific yes i've never ever seen anything like it and prevalent enough that they have spelled it out. Usually it'll just be like, there is political issues there, there's risk of, you know... Pickpockets. Pickpocket or kidnapping or, you know, extortion. I've never seen anything this specific. No, I haven't either.

No. So the crime scene where David and Hannah were both found was littered with evidence. There were their bloody clothes, there was also blood-stained murder weapons including a garden hoe and a wooden club, and there was also three cigarette butts and a used condom found laying nearby. At the time, there were only six police officers stationed on the island of Cataw. I know that sounds like a very small amount, and probably maybe it is given the number of tourists that frequent there, but it is a very small island.

It's tiny, yeah, it's the smallest. Eight miles long, that's nothing. No, so there's police every two miles. And so these six police officers basically, I guess they can only do what they can do, and they're essentially waiting for more police officers to arrive from the mainland. Local residents were so horrified that they actually took it upon themselves to block the piers around Katao, hoping to prevent the unknown killers from escaping its shores. But as you can imagine, with so few police hanging around and so many local people and tourists getting involved, the crime scene was not handled well. It would actually be hard

for it to be handled worse. The only thing that could make it worse is if the local people started to give tours of it like Hinterkaifeck. Yes, or like in the case of the murder of Jodie Jones, the police just come along and bleach it. Right, yes, of course. Yeah, it's bad stuff the people were just allowed to walk all over the badly cordoned off crime scene totally compromising any forensic evidence that might have been there many onlookers even took photos of hannah and david's body and posted them on social media sites that is sick i can't remember where i saw this oh it was on the radio so i was listening to radio 4 because i'm elderly um and they do this thing on a sunday evening that's like a wrap-up of all of the shows for the week and one of them

was like a profile of this paparazzi guy paparazzo i suppose who has had more covers than any other photographer and he was a horrible horrible man and he was like oh like fern britain's jumping in a off a pier or something today so i'm gonna go find i haven't seen fern for ages like really nasty stuff and he would do that yeah i mean that's his job oh of course um did you ever watch the film nightcrawler no oh i would thoroughly recommend okay okay it's jay jill and hall okay take this to the top of your list even silent hill yes oh okay oh yeah silent hill is just like it's like event horizon it's like a guilty pleasure i wouldn't sit here and pretend to you that it's a good film okay night crawler is a fantastic film it's j Jake Gyllenhaal being a stone cold fucking psychopath, which I love.

And it is also Riz Ahmed, who I love. And he is fantastic. They are both fantastic in it. And it's basically Jake Gyllenhaal plays a guy who's like goes to crime scenes or goes to like accidents or goes to places like where horrible shit has happened and films it and then sells the footage to news channels. And then it's basically, not going to spoil it but it's basically he's like well maybe if i just started like making stuff happen oh it's really good okay okay it's excellent so yeah anyway but yeah this this is sick this is sick and what's even worse is david and hannah's families

ended up seeing those images the same day that they were told that their family had been killed in a horrible murder miles and miles and miles and miles and miles away from home fuck fuck fuck me and some of these photos not only can you see the dead bodies of david and hannah who were killed very violently some of the pictures show people sunbathing sort of right next to them near the bloodstained sand. What the fuck? Don't we? Can't let it get in the way of your holiday.

What the fuck is wrong with people? Because I don't even know what to say because it's like, imagine you are a foreign tourist in a country where two other foreign tourists have been horribly murdered and raped. And then you're just going to go lie and sunbathe on a beach next to where their bodies are where they're still blood staining the sand yeah it's not it's not a good look i mean i know it's a small island but maybe not yeah right just just i don't i mean i don't even know why i'm trying to understand these people but it's like I'm so fucking horrified by this.

I would leave. Casual. Yeah, you would leave. You would leave. Eventually, more officers did arrive on the island and they began taking DNA samples from the garden hoe and the wooden club that were found near Hannah and David's bodies. Also from the cigarette butts and also from the bodies themselves. But it is very, very important to note that these officers who were doing this DNA collection were just normal officers. They were not trained forensic experts by any measure.

These samples were then sent off for forensic analysis and David and Hannah's bodies were taken away that evening. Now, one of the many criticisms that the Thai authorities faced in their frankly shambolic investigation was their failure to properly analyze forensic evidence. For example although they did analyze the DNA that was found on Hannah's body they never tested any DNA from either David or Hannah's clothing. Nor were there any competent forensic experts ever consulted. This isn't new. We've seen this all over the world time and time again. Like immediately you and I have named cases from like opposite ends of the world where this kind of thing has been seen.

But it still doesn't cease to amaze me. And news of the brutal murders obviously traveled around the world and threatened severely the reputation of thailand's tourist industry which had already taken a blow following the military coup i think like us like many people maybe don't realize and i'm not telling people not to go to thailand of course not but it's like i think people just didn't know but if you have a horrible case like this happen, and they are, let's be real, white, British, young people, that's going to make news everywhere and people are going to be scared. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's nothing we white people love more than hysteria.

But that aside, the Thai politicians didn't exactly help their cause either. Junta Chief General Priyath Chanotcha thought it would be a good idea to blame the murders on the victims themselves classic oh goody classic move he said will tourists survive in thailand if they dress in bikinis and then he went on to say that people would survive tourists would survive if they were not attractive oh good well i'm glad it's not just our politicians oh good so as long as i look really ugly in a bikini yeah then i'll be fine needless to say this statement did absolutely nothing but enrage people across the world and also in thailand itself so likely due to a political advisor whispering in his ear, Prayeth made a follow-up statement

that included the words, sometimes I speak too strongly, not I'm wrong, or I take back what I said. I'm just too passionate sometimes. During this bikini wars, the forensic analysis indicated that the unknown DNA at the crime scene

was from somebody of Asian descent. Hearing this, Junta Chief waited no time in placing the blame on the growing population of Burmese workers in Thailand, stating, quote, we have to help take care of our nation and not let no good people mingle with us, such as unregistered alien workers. He also added that a Thai person would never have committed the murder. You see this so often i'm gonna say it's more prevalent in the developing world than it is in the west i think the phrase like oh a british person would never do this we don't say stuff like that no no no no i i actually don't think it is that prevalent here i think it is more actually prevalent i think yes

more prevalent in the developing world is what we've seen with cases like this. And I think it's also, it's interesting, isn't it? Because I think in the Western world, we often look at other countries like Asian countries or whatever, or even, you know, Latin American countries as everybody being quite monolithic, which is obviously not the case. Like we throw around terms like Asian, or, you know, Latinx or Hispanic. Those those people are not monolithic like we've got a lot of fucking beef amongst each other believe me yeah i think that's why we have seen this crop up time and time again in cases like this for sure and this guy's just really hitting all the bingo markers isn't he yeah blame the victims oh that oh people didn't like that okay let's blame some

other migrants yeah yeah it's always the migrants and indeed the police investigating the murders seemed to agree with this junta chief because they had already started going down this path they'd even started doing dna testing specifically on every single burmese worker in and around the sari beach area to see if they were a match for the dna found at the scene. So not just testing all of the men on the island, they're just testing all of the Burmese workers. Yeah, because famously Thai DNA is not of Asian descent. Precisely. So two separate unknown DNA profiles were actually found on the cigarette butts found

near the bodies and matched with those found in both the condom and on Hannah's body. So the cigarettes are definitely related to the crime because all of the DNA matches and there are two full profiles. However the DNA results showed that the semen in the condom wasn't a match for David Miller and his friends or the six other workers from Myanmar who were being held as suspects because they were drinking near Sari beach that night so police have got a very small pool of suspects yeah they can eliminate it being David's semen so yes we know further evidence probably that Hannah was obviously raped and it's not any of these random workers from Myanmar that they've just sort of rounded up

so the police found themselves under immense pressure from the media and Thai politicians to solve this case. This is the kind of case that is going to rapidly blow up in your face if you do not clear it quickly. And now, after failing to find a suspect who matched the DNA, the only lead that the police had was some grainy CCTV footage of three Burmese men on a motorcycle near the Sari beach on the night in question. The men were carrying a guitar and they were headed to a 7-Eleven store to buy beers and cigarettes before going to the beach. The images then showed one of these men running frantically into a nearby alleyway. Officers identified one of these men as Mau Mau, a Burmese worker who lived near the beach.

They brought Mau Mau in for questioning, but when they learned that he was working in Thailand, legally, they released him without any further questions. So there is nothing else that clears Mau Mau. They're just like, oh, he's here legally, so like, fuck it. It can't possibly be him. Yeah, we'll just leave it. But before he left, Mao Mao identified the other two men that he had been with that night in the CCTV footage. One of these men was 22-year-old Zuo Lin, another migrant worker from Myanmar. And the second the police found out that he had been working illegally,

they arrested him for breaching the terms of his visa and seized his clothing and motorcycle as evidence. The second man was 22-year-old YPO, also an illegal migrant from Myanmar. Zorlin and YPO were both interrogated for hours, during which the police used Burmese street food vendors as translators because neither of the men spoke Thai. I understand like they have to do this, but I'm like, there's a lot of like degrees of removal from the conversation that is happening, which is obviously making this even more problematic as a police interrogation. Yeah, yeah.

After these hours of interrogation, both men, so Zorlin and YPO, both make full confessions to the killings. They said that they had been driven to it after becoming sexually aroused watching Hannah and David kissing on the beach. Neither of these young men had any record of any sort of criminal history, not even so much as like petty theft.

But here they were making a confession and it seemed like case closed. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near L.A. in 1983, there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Lainey Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the

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Claudine Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime and there's much more to come. This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On The Media. To listen, subscribe to On The Media wherever you get your podcasts. Miraculously, the Thai police seemed to have solved the case, which had the potential to have spiralled into a catastrophically high-profile situation on the global stage, no less. And they'd cracked the case in two weeks, which is pretty incredible. But that was until Lin and Pio were granted legal counsel,

something which they had not been granted until after their confessions, of course. That's the right way to do it. Nothing wrong with that order. And once the two men had spoken to a lawyer from the Burmese embassy, the two retracted their confessions and claimed that they had been tortured in custody by being beaten, stripped naked, and left in a freezing cold room. There were also mentions of the men having been sexually assaulted and that was followed by threats of electrocution and even death unless they confessed i know this sounds terrifying and i my brain should not be going in the direction

it's going but it's too late now i know thai prison is probably horrible but all my mind can see is Bridget Jones singing like a virgin oh yes that's literally all I can that's all I'm working with here to be honest I think unless you are ever in Thailand and caught up in some sort of horrible situation just leave that image there I think that's all you need great I've served my purpose we've got enough horrible images in our heads yes but these men are certainly not singing like a virgin they were actually claiming they were told if they did confess then they would only have to do two years in prison which was quite obviously a lie the story that the men are telling at this stage again it's so reminiscent of what we've seen time and time

again these forced confessions false confessions whatever it might be, hours of interrogation, vulnerable, you know, suspects. I'm not saying they didn't do it, but I'm saying is we don't know what happened. And the claims that these men are making are quite consistent with what we've seen in cases of false confessions across the world. So, of course, the national police chief denied all of these allegations. And when Thailand's National Human Rights Commission attempted to look into these claims, police representatives failed to show up not once, but to four scheduled meetings. Seems suspect. And in the lead up to the trial,

the police only granted the defense team a mere half an hour to speak with their clients Lin MPO2 prepared. Half an hour for murder trials. Right. That is unbelievable. In a country that has the death penalty. Yes, yes. So meanwhile, the prosecution had put together a 900-page report that, under Thai law, the defence team weren't allowed to read until the day the trial began. And this is in stark contrast to much of the rest of the world, where as soon as charges are brought against a defendant,

the defense has access to all of the evidence, including witness statements, physical exhibits, and expert testimony. This is, of course, vital because it allows lawyers to take instruction from their clients and call their own experts to refute any testimony relied upon by the prosecution. But obviously, if you're only getting it that day there's not a whole lot you can do with that no not in half an hour no so

it's basically the prosecution can put together however many fucking documents they want experts they want and you just have to turn up on the day and be like no i didn't do it i definitely didn't do it it's shocking it's very stacked against the defense obviously and we just can't keep the met out of it yeah they can't leave it alone no because we're not making this next bit up we're not just you know dragging the met for no reason who interestingly you guys might find this interesting actually a few months ago after we had been pretty savage about the met but purely on under the duvet so it's behind a paywall and behind their backs. Where no one can find me.

Exactly. We got an email from the London Metropolitan Police and I was like, oh my God, what are they going to say? Are they going to put us in jail? And then it was from their PR and comms team. Oh God, I'd forgotten about this. Yeah, their PR and comms team. Because yeah, I could see you looking at me blankly

about what they had said. And they basically were like, hi, love the podcast. Would you like to have a detective on? Oh, no, it wasn't a detective. A family liaison officer on the podcast and interview them about all the great work that we're doing. Being family liaison people. And we were so like, wanted to immediately reply and be like no go fuck yourselves because if you haven't seen the London Metropolitan Police have not been painting

themselves in any sort of glory recently for more information on that please come listen to under the duvet for all patrons now and then we were like no let's just wait let's think about what we're going to reply and then we did reply the reason that we had been savaging the Met in the week leading up to this email was because if you guys cast your mind back particularly if you're British you might remember that in April 2021 there was a real tragic case of the teenager who had sickle cell who happened to be a young black teenager called Richard Okorohae who went missing from his house somewhere in London and he turned up in a pond or a lake in Epping Forest but it was like miles away from his home and when he had gone missing his mother had called the London Metropolitan Police and reported

her son missing. Richard was not just a teenager but he was also incredibly vulnerable like I said he had sickle cell anemia which is a fucking devastating condition and also it was during the fucking pandemic and Richard had spent the last year sheltering, not going anywhere but to hospital appointments. So the fact that he was missing during a pandemic, his mom was rightfully worried. The London Metropolitan Police officer that she spoke to said to her, and this is a quote, if you don't know where your son is, how do you think we would? And so we replied to the London Metropolitan Police email saying, we would love to have your family liaison police person on the show.

If they will talk to us about why Richard Okoroha's mum got that response from the London Metropolitan Police. We never heard from them again. No, they disappeared from the inbox as quickly as they arrived. And it was just such a transparent ploy of like, just get a better comms team. Yeah. I mean, the email was cringeworthy and I was like, they should have taken that opportunity. They should have been like, yes, we will put somebody on your podcast and you can ask them

that question and they can answer it. But they didn't. No. So whatever. So back to why the British Metropolitan Police are involved in this. Just in case you don't know what the British Met are, the Metropolitan Police are the police force that police London, essentially. So they're the biggest police force in the UK. They, in fact, conducted their own independent inquiry into the Thai police's investigation of Hannah and David's murders.

But rejected requests for the report from Lynn and PO's defence team. So even the London Metropolitan Police refused to give these defendants access to the case that was built against them. And the Met are obviously involved because Hannah and David were British. And they're like, nah, cool. The Met Police actually opposed the application, and their argument was that disclosure would impede the Metropolitan Police Force's ability to enter into cooperation agreements with foreign authorities in the future and the judge ruled that the interest of the police outweighed the interests of the subjects

which is that the right way around i mean they're just basically like well if we do this no one will ever work with us again well of course they fucking will of course they're going to have to work with you they're not going to be able to not work with you especially if it's british people who have been murdered abroad and again we bang on this country this government the metropolitan police love to bang on about british values do we not they're not things i disagree with i think they're arbitrary but it's not things i disagree with but if we're going to say that things like a fair trial etc fair access to justice i'm not saying we get that in this country but if we're going to say that those things are british values then it seems very contradictory to me that the british met would say no we won't give you access

to these things that would give you a fair trial because we don't want to piss off the thai police the thai authority exactly that's's not very British values of you. So, Zaw Lin and YPO were formally indicted on five charges in December 2014 for premeditated murder, rape, killing to conceal the rape, illegally entering Thailand and staying without permission. And just for luck, they threw in the charge of having stolen David Miller's phone. Because why not? Why the fuck not? The actual trial itself began the following year, on the 8th of July 2015,

with each sitting of the 18-day trial lasting over 10 hours. As someone who is imminently about to serve on a jury, that sounds so fucking boring. I know it's a murder trial 10 hours i can't sit down for 10 hours no but again it's like it's like the tactic that is actually used in the west as well like you'll sometimes hear about it in like procedurals and like courtroom dramas where they'll be like the best way is to bore the jury to death it's to make the days real i'm sorry sorry, as somebody who is,

I'm talking to somebody who's about to go on imminent jury duty, is to make it so fucking boring and so long and tedious that people just give up. And they're just like, I forget which way people tend to rule if they've given up. Maybe it's just like, they don't challenge it as much. They go with their first instinct. Yeah, I think you're more likely to,

because what Scott Watson said at his trial, he thinks he was found guilty because the trial was so long the jury couldn't remember the evidence that had been submitted, which I think was probably... Classic tactics. Yes, yeah. So can't fucking wait. As you said, the old Bailey too. Yeah, like the highest court in the land so unfortunately there are no kind of direct remarks that we can sort of tell you about available from the trial itself because the judges guess what they banned anybody from taking notes which seems highly irregular i don't know if that is standard practice in thailand but that seems highly irregular to me that you would have any

court in any country that doesn't have somebody taking notes about what is being said and this is something that has been condemned by the solicitors international human rights group rightly fucking so the prosecution based much of its case mainly on the dna evidence which they claimed was a perfect match for lynn and pio their version of events went as follows they said said that Lin and Pio beat David Miller with the garden hoe before using it to knock Hannah unconscious and then they took it in turns raping her before killing her with the same hoe. The defense argued that the entire investigation was full of misconduct and flaws from the mishandling of forensic evidence, the

fact that neither Lin or Pio had been granted any sort of legal counsel during their interrogations, during which they claim they were coerced into making their confessions, and also accusations that the police had intimidated witnesses into making statements. The police also claimed that they had found David Miller's phone in Zhao Ling's bedroom, in Zhao Ling's bedroom, like we said, But this was later proven to be untrue. So why they even bother making that up, well I guess we do know because it's like another thing to connect them to the crime, but like it's total nonsense. They can't prove it when it comes to the trial. The defense also made the case that Lin and Pio's statuses as illegal migrant workers made them the perfect scapegoats for the police to pin the murders on now i'm not

saying just because they are illegal migrant workers they couldn't possibly have done it but obviously as we have seen step by step by step all of the reasons why they were even investigated or chosen or looked into the shoddy evidence the mishandling of police evidence the mishandling of forensics it's not exactly a fucking airtight case no the only reason that they were even put in the frame in the first place is because they were there illegally yeah because they were on cctv seen near the area that's the only thing connecting them to it as far as this investigation tells us so here is what the defense had to say their version of events from the night in question went like this lynn pio and ma Maomao had gone swimming at the beach

earlier that night but their clothes had been stolen from the beach. Then they made their way to Maomao's house where they were seen on CCTV. When Pio was arrested it was a little bit suspicious because he was found on a boat trying to leave Ketau so it looked like he was hiding or escaping or whatever but actually he was on a boat because he'd got a different job in the city of Surat Thani in Southern Thailand. So he was just leaving. And also by the time they get to Zaw Lin and P.O., it's been like two weeks since the murder had happened.

So why would they have hung around for two weeks on this island if they had killed Hannah and David? Why wouldn't they have left sooner? That's a good point I didn't know it was that long. Yeah he only leaves after he gets this job when he's leaving they catch him they're like oh look look how suspicious it is but it's like he'd been there for the whole two weeks. On the second day of the trial the court ordered the DNA from the crime scene to be retested.

But funnily enough, the police said that that was impossible because all the DNA they had from the crime scene had been used up. I don't really know what that means. It means they did a terrible job. But they didn't have the crime scene DNA. But they did have the murder weapons still that had some DNA kicking around on it that could be used. And after testing this DNA, the head of Thailand's Central Institute of Forensic Science found that the DNA on the ho, the murder implement, was not a match for the defendants. So this is obviously like in the reanalysis. And it's been done by, as Hannah said, the Central Institute for Forensic Science. But the original report of the DNA analysis provided by the police to the court had never actually been independently verified.

And it was a mere one page summary for a double homicide with four supporting pages and large sections of it were just handwritten. Oh good. Yeah thorough. Seems legit. Also it just gets worse and worse in terms of the police investigation. Shortly after the men had confessed the police had forced Zhao Lin and YPO to take part in a rather grim reenactment of the killings at the crime scene in front of hordes of news cameras. What do we think might be the issue with people who might become jurors and the rest of the world seeing these two men reenacting committing a crime? I cannot. I cannot. I refuse to can. i mean like it's just awful awful what was the point of that i don't know and it's like the reykjavik case that we did a year ago january january it

was in january i think it might be the first case of 2021 i think you're correct yes in that the same thing happens where the police force these people to reenact a crime and in that case what we saw is how suggestible people are because once these people were made to reenact the crime they started to believe that they had done it because they were remembering the reenactment this is so this is just so fucking awful this is terrible but despite all of these many issues that we've just listed to you and the fact that multiple cctv cameras near the beach weren't actually working and the fact that the police hadn't even checked all of them and the accusations of torture and coercion during

interrogations the court found zaolin and ypo guilty of murdering hannah withridge and david miller and by the way i know i said earlier like should they be doing these reenactments in front and YPO guilty of murdering Hannah Withridge and David Miller. And by the way, I know I said earlier, like, should they be doing these reenactments in front of people who might eventually become jurors? Well, I was wrong because the trial actually didn't have a jury. The verdict was decided upon by three judges who presided over the case. And all three agreed the defendants were to be sentenced to death on the 24th of December 2015.

Always go for a jury trial if you have the choice. Never go for a bench 2015. Always go for a jury trial. If you have the choice. Never go for a bench trial. Always go for jury. I know there's more people to convince, but you can convince them better than you can just convince a judge. Yes. Yes.

Fully, fully, fully. Always jury. If it's not three fucking, three fucking judges. Lynn and PO's defence team appealed this decision in 2019, but the Supreme Court upheld the decision, claiming that police had handled the case correctly and that forensic evidence was clear, credible and detailed. Even though it was clearly the actual opposite of literally every single one of those things. There was uproar, both domestically and even internationally, about this verdict. Nobody was buying the police's version of events.

The scepticism was so widespread that the police resorted to threatening to prosecute anybody who challenged their conclusions. The nation's police chief even had the gall, the audacity, the gumption to describe the work of the investigators as, quote, a perfect job. And look, we're not here to fucking just shit all over Thailand, because we do plenty of this with the London Metropolitan Police. Yes, yes. We can't sit here and pretend like this exact same thing isn't fucking happening here. Cressida dick is all over everyone's dick, being a massive dick all the fucking time. This is exactly the kind of thing I could imagine her saying. This is exactly. Oh, oh, completely. And it just, because I know not all of you are obviously patrons,

which, hello, you should be. But we have talked at length over on Under the Duvet about the murder of Sarah Everard and the way in which the London Metropolitan Police have responded to her murder, just in case you didn't know, by a London Metropolitan Police officer named Wayne Cousins. I was at a traffic light today, and I went to press the button, and there was a sticker there, and it said something, someone had handwritten it,

and it said something, Wayne Cousins, and then someone had torn it off. I really wish I could have read what it said. Oh, yeah. I know, bummer. It was probably Cressida Dick. Cressida Dick, in case you don't know, is the head of the London Metropolitan Police. So anyway, basically, I'm not going to bang on about this because we do enough of that over on Patreon. But basically, she said, if you are a woman who's being arrested by a lone male police officer and you suspect them,

because that's what happened to Sarah Everard and she ended up raped and murdered by this man, to flag down a bus to save yourself. Not even kidding you. No. Even our police correspondent PC Excellent has had enough of Crescent to dig. Yep. So this, you know, this just typical stuff. We see it everywhere.

But what specifically do we think is going on here? In Katao, on these islands of Thailand? Well, aside from the obvious scenario that we often see in such cases, like we just talked about, where the police will scapegoat an easy target in order to close a high-profile case that is dragging, there is another element worth discussing here. It's known that a single, powerful family holds a monopoly on the hospitality businesses on the island of Katao.

And their word is essentially law in the area. They allegedly dictate everything from who gets to sell like pineapples on the beach to things like sex work and human trafficking. They've got their finger in every pie, in every holiday pie. Yeah, that's out there. And basically they're like the Thai mafia.

You know, you've got a crime family that's running the show and they've obviously got a lot to lose if people stop coming to Katao because people keep getting murdered there. Right, yeah, because they are the tourism industry on the island. Exactly, exactly. They don't like that. That's bad news bears for their industry.

So definitely I think that we can't pretend like this isn't playing a role in it, I think. Also, what's interesting to say is it's also widely reported and Hannah and I've been reading about this that islands like Katao used to be like penal colonies for political prisoners so the islands kind of were like a bit separate for a very long time from mainland Thailand which means that when it ended I think it was like in the 40s that they stopped doing that like stopped allowing these islands to just be penal colonies there was a power vacuum that's created when you remove that kind of institution that's existed there for a long time and it's also reported in places that

we read that these islands can therefore feel a bit disconnected from the mainland and so in that power vacuum you have crime families pop up who now run the show there. And there's a lot of speculation that the police, who are probably in the pocket of these Thai mafias, well, you would have to be, otherwise there wouldn't be a mafia. Well, exactly. Fair point. And yeah, it's been basically widely speculated that the police were pinning the murders on these two men as easy scapegoats, not only in order to clear the case that they were under pressure for,

but also as a way to protect the Thai mafia and their business interests. Following the guilty verdict, tourists from the mainland apparently began to return to Katao in droves, which was good news for the hospitality businesses, which means it was good news for this powerful crime family. And another reason it's better to say that it is foreigners and not Thai people, because then you know who you need to be wary of or something. You know, it's not the people here, it's these others.

So don't worry about it. You can still come on holiday here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just stay away from the Burmese migrants. Speaking of Burmese migrants, Zalin and YPO were sentenced to death based on literally nothing apart from the CCTV footage of them

standing outside a 7-Eleven and unsubstantiated DNA evidence that was apparently a match for the DNA found on Hannah Witheridge's body but I don't think we can put much stock in that at all because it's been used up it's disappeared it can't be retested we don't know. Their cases were finally reviewed in 2020 to commemorate the king of Thailand's birthday and in order to show his clemency weird flex yeah but sure sure why not especially in 2020 when he's really not very popular at all that's probably why they did it yeah this is the thing like I don't know maybe this case did definitely get a lot of like domestic and international uproar like you said a lot of people in thailand definitely felt like you know this wasn't a fair

case this wasn't the way it was meant to be handled and so maybe you know it's just like oh look i know i'm in bavaria but clemency whatever i what people are fucking covid mate they're over it by this point at this point point, like Hannah said, in 2020, the pair did actually have their death sentences commuted to life in prison. But to this day, YPO and Zorlin maintain their innocence. However, Cattell's reputation as Murder Island has only been further cemented since this incident in 2014. Because the following year in 2015, a Frenchman named Dimitri Pops,

who was just 29, was found hanged with his hands, tied behind his back. But the police, ruled it a suicide. Doesn't really work like that. Yeah, it's like the, Rebecca Zahal case.

Mmm, exactly, yeah, yeah. God, blast from the past. I know. It's like episode four, or some shit. I know, Spreckles Mansion. So then then after this happened in 2015 in 2017 a russian woman named valentina novish guy nova who was just 23

disappeared with her diving gear and the police quickly concluded that she had just drowned at sea cool you don't maybe want to have a look don't worry about it just just have a little little nosy around just just there's too many people dying and you know i can probably also say i'm sure that on this island they seem very understaffed police wise but maybe have more when there's just like 300 to 400 just brits dying every single year that seems scary and obviously you know so i'm sure not i'm sure i'm certain that a high proportion of those deaths are drunk people drowning oh absolutely it's not drunk people drowning junk people falling off balconies drunk people just getting too drunk and dying of alcohol poisoning although it's called

murder island it's we're not suggesting that 400 brits are being murdered a year like right most of them are dying in other ways. Yeah, most of them are doing it to themselves. And in fact, since 2014, there have been at least 11 deaths and disappearances of European tourists on the island of Catau alone, many of which were under very, very suspicious circumstances, but were explained away by authorities as just unfortunate accidents or suicides. It is a lot of paperwork. To look into crimes. or explained away by authorities as just unfortunate accidents or suicides.

It is a lot of paperwork. To look into crimes. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Suicides, you can write those off pretty easily. Well, I'm still going to Thailand, but I'm not going anywhere near that island. Oh, I think that is for the best. Absolutely go to Thailand. I hear the food.

Because like I said, I spent one night in Bangkok and I had delicious food. i would love to go back to thailand but i would probably stay in the north purely because i'm too old to go to a full moon party the thought of a full moon party reviles me yes and i also assume the thought of me being at a full moon party would revile the people who were there right yeah i we i think we are over the hill yes they'll just look at us and start screaming yeah but no neon face face paint for you oldos it's just falling into all the wrinkles in your face no thank you no no i'm gonna go and sit in my air-conditioned hotel and scoff at you yes please let's do that so yeah guys that is the case of the murder of h Withridge and David Miller.

Just classic police horseplay that we see the world over, unfortunately. So yes, once again, if you would like some more Red Handed, you can come follow us on patreon.com slash redhanded, where you can sign up to get your hands, eyes, ears, every orifice of your body on a shit ton more content that we release on a weekly basis. You can also head on over to spotify and listen to our brand new podcast all about i'm gonna say it cults called sinister society so check that out now there's like already like probably by the time it seems it's four or five episodes up yeah we're spotify exclusive bitches now precisely and just

in case anyone's worried it's not like us and a bunch of other people it's just me and hannah yeah it's it's literally almost exactly the same as Red Handed, but just sort of laser focused on societies that are secret. Precisely. So check that out. And here are some people who became patrons at some point last year. So thank you very much to Jenny Waters, Shannon Wheeler,

Victoria Bishop, Joanna Figuel, Cheryl Jessica Savannah Cassidy, Christy Penn Halligan, Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Yen Santos, Monica Galach, Megan Angus, Alice and Quill Huntley, who are apparently very keen for us to know that they are not husband and wife or wife and wife, but in fact siblings. And Claire Trahan, Rebecca Sanchez, Jessica Power, Angel Boncarero, Emily Martin, Mary Foster, Jessie McPherson, Stella,

Gabriel Eckensberger, Rachel Putman. Oh, did you know I found, I'll say this one to do right, but it's about burgers and I found it a fun fact. I'll tell you about it later. Mandy Molzen, Ella DeCresta Armstrong, Megan Telford, Sally Housego, fact i'll tell you about it later mandy molzen ella de cresta armstrong megan tail tag sally

house go elena johnson jenny molly byers gabriella nargoyeres sophie jeffross geffross possibly lauren solomon kelsey travis megan spruce spruce moose is a tattoo that my cousin have which i think is very funny she just has a spruce moose on her leg taylor robinson helen fraser brooks price live bradshaw ellery barnes ashley bellen lara pennycott jenna ld claire luby kelly furlott amy lo annie m andrea laura fenton ben Thank you ever so much for listening to our lovely little show. And we hope that you have a good day. Goodbye. Bye. I'm Jake Warren.

And in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery Plus. I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery Plus. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go.

A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me, and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding, and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus.

Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either, until I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness, and inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more. Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained.

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