RedHanded - Episode 222 - Natalee Holloway

Episode Date: November 18, 2021

In May 2005, 18-year-old Natalee Holloway and her friends flew from Alabama to Aruba to celebrate their graduation. Just five days later, when the group were set to fly back to the States, Natalee was nowhere to be found.  The investigation that followed uncovered sex-trafficking gangs, potential police cover-ups and a terrifying teenage psychopath, all turning this case into America’s favourite reality show… Become a patron: Patreon Order a copy of the book here (US & Canada): Order on Wellesley Books Order on Amazon.com Order a copy of the book here (UK, Ireland, Europe, NZ, Aus): Order on Amazon.co.uk Order on Foyles Follow us on social media: Instagram Twitter Visit our website: Website Contact us: Contact See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Saruti. I'm Hannah. And welcome to Red Handed, fresh out of the van. Fresh out of the van, van fresh, which is kind of the least fresh you can possibly be. I'm feeling particularly unfresh. Yes, I need to wash my body. We had our last tour show last night at the Clapham Grand in London and we have come straight

back to the office we emptied the van and now we're recording this because we didn't want to let you down we may be van fresh but we are not let us down I don't know fucking hell I'm tired but the tour was amazing thank you incredible to everyone came. We had the best time. We absolutely, I'm so sad it's over. But the good news is a lot of people on Instagram, et cetera, have been saying, why won't you release a live recording of the tour show? And there's a few reasons. Firstly, venues charge you a lot of money to do it. And secondly, because we're taking the same show to America next year.

Because we don't do a different show every night. We craft a masterpiece and do it again and again and again. So that's why we haven't released it as a live show, because we don't want to ruin it for next year. No. So stay tuned, US. We are headed your way. We're working on it.

So, with that being said, thank you to everyone who came once again. Any other announcements? I don't know what we're doing. Who are we? What day is it? I feel like if there's something, it can wait. It can probably wait.

If you can't wait, though, for any more Red Handed content, you can just continue to obviously listen to this episode we're about to do. You can also head on over to patreon.com slash redhanded where you can get your eyes, ears and other orifices on all manner of bonus content and if that is not enough then head on over to spotify for our brand new spotify exclusive show sinister societies we recently just recorded an episode on nexium which i'm particularly excited about hitting the airways i don't know when it's coming out but it will be out head on

over maybe it's out now go to spotify search for sinister societies and have a little look-see for yourself with that shall we crack on let's crack the fuck on yes so on the 30th of may 2005 beth twitty and two of her friends were enjoying a rather luxurious three days sunbathing and relaxing at a lake house in hot springs, Arkansas. The whole time, they hadn't had to worry about their kids, who was taking the bins out, or their jobs. It was the soccer mum's dream getaway. So, fully replenished and relaxed on the final evening, they had all packed up their things and hopped into Beth's Chevy Tahoe, ready to make their way back to their real lives in Birmingham, Alabama.

Such a mum car. Isn't it? Yeah. I don't know much about cars, but even I know that. But at around 11pm that night, Beth's phone suddenly rang. It was a woman named Jodie Behrman. And Jodie was one of the seven adult chaperones who had escorted 124 students from Birmingham's Mountain Brook High School on a five-day graduation celebration trip to Aruba. Did you go on a graduation trip?

I did not. The only school trip I ever went on that was international was to the fucking trenches of World War I in Belgium and France, which is depressing, but it was literally... Yeah, that's the only time I went on a school organised... Really? Yeah. Oh my god, what? That's the only place they took you?

What year? Year seven or eight. They fucking shafted you. We went to Prague for our leavers. You had a leavers trip? Is this a thing? Yeah, we had a big leavers away trip that we went on in year 11, end of year 11.

No, nothing like that. Yeah, because most of the school didn't stay on for sixth form. So end of year 11, we like that yeah because most of the school didn't stay on for sixth form so end of year 11 we went to prague for like a week and just got wrecked basically the entire time now i think about it i'm like oh my god that was so inappropriate like one of our math teachers was like sat in our hotel room with us drinking oh dear i mean we were 18 but like that's even still oh my god very gray area is a i mean it's not even a grey area. It would have been 16 if it was before sixth form. Maybe it was end of sixth form then. I can't remember.

But no, definitely not a grey area. He shouldn't have done that. He shouldn't have been doing that. That's a code red area. Code red. That's the every teacher is a pedo siren. If you came to the show, you'll know that there's an excellent joke in it. Yeah.

If you know, you know. But no, we went to Prague. We had a great time. I remember that they were like, we have to make it educational in some way. Kind of like how we have to add some business into all of our business expenses. And our head of sixth form. Oh, it was sixth form because head of sixth form took us there. And he made us go to a Skoda factory.

I didn't realize Skoda would check cars. There go everybody skoda is a check car there you go and i was like so that is educational yeah so we just went and walked around a skoda factory for like a day and then spent the entire rest of the time drunk yes i i actually i tell a lie i did go on another school trip it was a religious studies school trip to the sinai desert where's that it's in egypt oh mount mount sinai is where the ten commandments descend of course and also the burning bush um so there's a monastery where the burning bush allegedly is so did that which seems like an odd move for me but i did get 100% of philosophy A level so I mean I would like to go to those places I would like to go now that I appreciate it yeah but like

at the time am I gonna tell this story yes so uh me and my best friend from school Nikki we both went on this trip together and most of the time we were sleeping like literally just under the stars no tents nothing but one day we were sleeping on this like farm and there was a toilet which when you've been in the desert for a week you're like great lots of alfresco poops you don't believe in ghosts i get it lots of people don't i didn't either until i came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness. And inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more.

Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near L.A. in 1983, there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Lainey Jacobs,

a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Anyway, so it was the middle of the night and there was this toilet, which was probably like, I'd say a good 300 meter walk from where we were sleeping. And it's pitch

black because it's the middle of the desert. so like you literally can't see your hand in front of your face so I said to Nikki I was like will you please come with me I really need a wee and she was like yeah yeah let's go and I'm desperate busting and there's a one toilet and Nikki goes in before me even though I was absolutely desperate and then I was standing outside and it's pitch black I'm terrified I'm like 14 and I'm like Nikki can you tell me a story because I'm really scared and she started telling me the story that made me laugh so much I pissed myself well I did suspect the end of that story was going to end with you pissing yourself yeah and then I had to walk back to camp with a wet trouser always just piss in the open that's my

motto oh well I I'm a I'm a lot less gun shy than than i was as uh exhibited by sirisi and i both taking a wee in full view of a day road by stonehenge yeah i will i will piss anywhere i will piss anywhere well thank you for that insight you're welcome everybody good everyone on board excellent good let's get back to beth her friends. Like we said, she'd gone off and taken 124 students to Aruba. And one of these students was Beth's daughter, Natalie Holloway. And it took Beth a second to digest exactly what it was that Jodie was telling her on the phone that night. She could hardly believe her ears,

because it was every mother's worst nightmare. Natalie had failed to show up at the Premier Inn, where everybody was supposed to meet up before making their way back to catch a flight to the States. In fact, nobody had seen or heard from Natalie since the night before. Most mothers would assume their daughter had likely partied too hard and was still passed out in their room. But not Beth. In her own words,

I knew immediately that my daughter had been kidnapped in Aruba. Natalie has never been late in her life. And her instincts were not wrong. A group of Natalie's friends checked her bedroom and found her passport and her luggage. There was no sign that she'd been in the room since the day before. Not allowing herself to panic, Beth jumped in her car and drove at 100 mile an hour through Mississippi while phoning 911 to report that her daughter had been kidnapped in Aruba. And then she phoned her husband, George Twitty,

and then she phoned the FBI. That's like fucking just super mum. Yeah, super turbo mum. She's like, I'm just going to drive. She's like, I'll solve this myself. So by the time Beth reached Alabama, a family, and this again, this family, they are very well-to-do and they've got

resources at their disposal. And you're going to go on to find out just how much, because by the time Beth reached Alabama, a family friend had already chartered a private jet for her, George, and some other friends to fly to Aruba to see if they could find Natalie. They landed on the Dutch Caribbean island the following day at around 10pm and immediately spoke to Natalie's classmates. And when they did, they found out that Natalie had gone out drinking in the hotel casino with some friends on the night of the 29th, when she had struck up a conversation with a young Dutch man. Later that same night, this same Dutchman had met up with the group again at a local bar, named Carlos and Charlie's, and he had apparently spent the entire night dancing and flirting with Natalie. So this case is probably ringing some very vague bells in the back of your head,

and that's because Aruba is where Amy Bradley went missing. Oh, shit. Yes. I forgot that. Mm-hmm. It's like three miles off the coast of Aruba when she went missing. Fuck. And I believe there is a reference to Carlos and Charlie's in that story too, but I

can't remember what it is. So, yes, another white girl goes missing in Aruba. Dun dun dun. Dun dun dun. So, yeah, stay tuned because the similarities do not end. So, Natalie's friends said that they saw her leave with this guy and two other men at one o'clock in the morning. And after looking cctv footage an employee from the holiday inn told beth and george that

he recognized the man to be joran van der sloot who was well known in the area what a dutch name what a dutch name joran van der sloot and joran van der sloot was born in 1987 in arnhem in the netherlands which is where my d Dutch friend Renske is from. And he was one of three sons to Anita and Paulus van der Sloot. His father, Paulus, was a wealthy Dutch lawyer and a judge in training. A lot of upper echelons of society in this episode. I mean, yeah, let's go to Aruba. No.

Let's not. You'll get fucking trafficked. You'll be fine. I'll be fine. I'm always fine. Unless we go somewhere scary and racist. Yeah, true. It's really split down the middle of places we can go. I'll get kidnapped or Saruti will get racisted. In 1999, the family moved from Arlem to Aruba because it is the Dutch Caribbean.

And for colonial reasons, it's very easy for Dutch people to live there. And Joran attended the International School of Aruba as an honour student, which I don't know how much time you spend with international students. Almost none. Red flag. Yeah, I mean, no actually I know one. Gloria. Oh, Gloria's pretty good. That's it. So I got the best one. Yeah, you got the only one. So within four hours of being in aruba beth and george had already been able to provide the name and address of the man who had last been seen with their missing daughter to the aruban police so like you can see they just get there they fucking arrive they get the cctv pulled they find out who the guy is and he's super well known everyone on the island is like that's his house

so like they've handed all this information to the Aruban police within hours, which as we all know, is vital in a missing persons case. So along with two officers and their friends, Natalie's mother and stepfather George immediately made their way to Vandersloot's house and banged on his front door, demanding to know what had happened to Natalie. At first, Joran Vandersloot denied even knowing Natalie's name. But when it became clear that her parents weren't going to accept this, he told them that he had left the bar that night with Natalie and his two friends and that they'd all gone to the beach together. He then said that he had dropped Natalie back at her hotel at around 2am.

The two other men van der Sloot was with that night were 21-year-old Deepak and 18-year-old Satish Kalpo. They're brothers and they're both from Aruba. And together they corroborated Joran's version of events. Joran went on to say that as he was driving away he saw Natalie being approached by a mysterious man dressed like a security guard and that was the last time he ever saw her. But as you will go on to see, Jorgen van der Sloot changes his story consistently during the course of the investigation the only thing that's consistent about his story is that he keeps fucking changing it Beth insisted that her daughter wouldn't have done something as dangerous as get in a car with three men she didn't know but she also refused to believe that Natalie drank alcohol or had had sex either I

imagine if you are from Birmingham Alabama i'm guessing they're only teaching abstinence in schools yeah ear sex only while fully clothed yes exactly natalie's classmates however seem to know the other side of natalie a bit better than her mum did and you know this is this is typical 18 year old stuff like obviously no one's just like telling their mum all the stuff they're up to and also i think if you're from obviously i don't know that much about alabama angela davis is from birmingham alabama oh is she i dated a guy from birmingham alabama really well went on one date with him oh yeah squared your man i remember him worked at google see i'm listening so i imagine if you go to i't been to Aruba, but I have been to a lot

of places in the Caribbean and island life is a different vibe. So I can see a young girl from Birmingham, Alabama thinking that somewhere like Aruba is very, very safe because there's no adults around. You're not being chaperoned. Your mom isn't there. You're allowed to drink. I can understand. Yeah. And I also haven't been to Arubauba but it also just the word aruba sounds so touristy so i think when you are immediately when you're surrounded by other tourists you just feel like it's safe anyway yeah yeah totally the amount of fucking motorbikes i got on the back of in vietnam like three of us just piled the most vietnam thing i've ever seen was we're in saigon and no word of a lie because obviously

everyone's on mopeds there was a child doing his homework on the back of a moped that used to be me when we lived in India my parents still laugh about it my dad had like a Vespa that me him and my mum used to ride around on and I'd stand at the front and like on the pedals bit where he would have his feet either side of me and the mum would sit on the back and apparently I would just like wave at everybody oh my god and that was my favourite thing to do that is incredible there is also an incredible picture of Saru as a child when she lived in India and she's just dressed like Dwayne the Rock Johnson for no reason I was such I like didn't I just wouldn't let my mum brush my hair so she cut it all off and she'd like part it down

the side so I had a little boy cut and I'd only I always dress like a boy and it's the gold chain I think it's the gold chain but it's also the look on my face and the way I've got my hands and my pockets anyway I'll share it on Instagram you guys can look at it there are you wearing a gold chain because it's bad news to be bare necked yes it is bad news to be bare necked and like I like wearing necklaces but I don't like wearing them all the time. It makes me feel very stressed out. And whenever I go to India, my grandma's like, and I also take my earrings out when I'm not wearing them.

And she's like, oh my God, you look like a peasant. I'm Jake Warren. And in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery Plus. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part,

Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me, and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health.

This is season two of Finding, and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall, that was no protection. Claudian Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime, and there's much more to come.

This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On the Media. To listen, subscribe to On the Media wherever you get your podcasts. So anyway, Natalie's parents made it very clear to the investigators that Natalie wasn't the type to abstain from alcohol. She was very much there to party. They all were. They were very clear. The trip to Aruba was a party holiday. You don't go to Aruba to not do a party holiday. It's like, oh, we're going to Benidorm and we're just going to go to a museum. Play bingo. And her friends actually told investigators that Natalie was in fact going the hardest of them all on that particular holiday. According to them, on a couple of days, Natalie had started drinking at breakfast

and had carried straight on through into the night. That is some stamina. Mate, that's an 18-year-old, right there. Yeah, yeah, the elasticity of youth. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And it's also suspected that the group of teens who were in Aruba had been dabbling with drugs during their trip.

We don't know if Natalie had been, but it definitely seems to have been a part of the vibe, shall we say? Yes. Now, none of this is, of course, us blaming Natalie for her disappearance. My God, if you'd seen me on that trip to Prague, you would know that I am not passing any sort of judgment. But we do have to point out both the disparity between what Natalie's mum believed and the reality of the situation. It's also important because it tells us the state that Natalie had been in when Van der Sloot and the Calpeaux brothers had taken her for that drive. After Joran had given his statement to the police, it didn't do much to lift the suspicion from him because CCTV footage showed no sign of Natalie ever having returned to the hotel

that night. It also showed no sign of a security guard like the one Joran had described. It's important to say, though, that multiple sources do state that security cameras outside the hotel were possibly not even working that night. However, whether they were on or not isn't really that important, because as you'll see, very quickly, Joran's definitely lying. But for now, let's stick with the search and rescue efforts, which were by this point in full swing. The general feeling was with Aruba only being eight miles long, how hard could

it possibly be to find somebody? It is only eight miles long, but it's also surrounded by an ocean. Yeah, with Amy Bradley in it. Yeah, tragically. And so quickly, the rescue teams realised that it actually turns out it's incredibly hard to find somebody even on an eight mile long island. And on the 1st of June, hundreds of Aruban and American volunteers helped scour the island for Natalie. The Aruban government even gave thousands of their civil servants the day off to help. 50 Dutch Marines combed the island shorelines for any sign of a body. And the Aruban banks donated $20,000 to assist with the search effort. Three Dutch F-16 fighter planes, rigged with infrared cameras,

failed to pick up any sign of a body around the coastline. It was starting to look very not good. Based on Joran and the Kalpoe brothers' initial story, police detained two former security guards from a nearby hotel. These men did have a reputation for cruising the tourist spots of Aruba, hoping to pick up women, and one of them even had a criminal record. But they were released eight days later when authorities couldn't uncover any evidence that linked them to Natalie's disappearance at all. On the 5th of June,

so now 10 days after Natalie's disappearance, Joran and the Calpo brothers were brought in for questioning once again. This time, however, their stories changed. One of the Calpo brothers now admitted, quote, something bad happened at the beach with Natalie. After this, Joran's version of events changed almost every single day. Remember, to begin with, Joran denied even knowing Natalie's name. And then he said he had taken her to the beach and dropped her back at her hotel. And now he's saying that he actually left her at the beach and he went home.

And then he said that he'd actually gone home himself and left Natalie with the Calpo brothers. So he just is flip-flopping all over the place. Over the following days, Joran and the Calpo... Joran. Joran and the Calpo brothers turned on one another. Sooran and the Cowpaw brothers turned on one another. So the Cowpaw brothers and Vandersloot are no longer best buddies. They turn on each other and the brothers insisted that they left Natalie with Vandersloot and Vandersloot says that he left her with the brothers. So obviously somebody is lying. Maybe even both but the police think it was privileged pants Vandersloot. The Cowpaw brothers were released and vandersloot was held for two

more months during this time a number of witnesses came forward some claimed to have seen vandersloot and the cowpaw brothers near a pond and they said that they covered their faces when people drove past so just them standing by a pond that night every time someone drove past just cover their faces excellent it's like i know this probably isn't true, but you know that thing where polar bears, when they hunt, they just cover their nose with their hand. It is really cute and I want it to be true.

I want it to be true. I hope it is. I hope it is. Let's just pretend it is. No one tell us otherwise. I want to live in this fantasy world. I don't want to hear from you. Only about polar bears.

Right. So they're covering their faces like a mythical polar bear and another witness claimed that they saw all three of them burying a blonde haired woman in a local landfill. Well that's pretty damning. It is quite damning

but one does have to wonder why it took them this long to come forward. Well I think I would like to think I would call the police immediately if I saw someone burying a woman. But the police had already searched the landfill and they had found nothing. After this witness statement, they did go back a second time with cadaver dogs, but once again, nothing.

Authorities even drained a pond opposite a Marriott hotel where the witnesses had claimed to see Van der Sloot and the Calpo brothers. But again, there was nothing there. And maybe this is possibly a reason as to why suddenly 10 days after Natalie goes missing, you have a bunch of people now coming forward giving witness statements that are very, very, as we've said, damning. Because the people of Aruba were very desperate to wrap up this case. Every day that passed, it was gaining more and more media attention. I mean, come on.

Natalie Holloway as well. She's 18 years old. She's blonde. She's very pretty. She is also from a well-to-do family. She's kind of your archetypical perfect victim. And so, of course, the media absolutely ate it up. And by this point, it had pretty much become America's favorite reality TV show. Everyone was tuning in every single night just to get the news updates.

It was also starting to affect tourism in Aruba in a big way. So given all of this, it kind of makes sense that some people might come forward, even with false statements, hoping that the police might just charge the three men and put an end to all of the madness. But still believing that Natalie had been kidnapped and was still alive two months after her disappearance, her family increased the reward for Natalie's safe return from $175,000 to one whole million smackers. And they also said that they would give $100,000 for information leading to the discovery of her remains if she was dead. And that reward for the discovery of her remains was later increased to a quarter of a million. On the 3rd of September, Van der Sloot was released on the condition that he remain available to the police when needed.

And in an incredibly bizarre move, Van der Sloot agreed to appear on Fox News of all places in March of 2006 to give what he said was his side of the story. In this lengthy three-part interview that aired over three days, because again, remember,

you've got to milk it. You've got to milk it to get the views in over the three days. And it's not like Fox News has actual news to report. No. Just make it up. None of that. And so during these three interviews, Joran van der Sloot claimed that Natalie had become insatiable

the second they had arrived at the beach and that she had begged him to have sex with her. But he, being the stand-up guy that he is, had refused because he didn't have a condom. Also, he claims, because he needed to get an early night because he had class the following morning. Do me a fucking favour. He's seen Leaving the Bar at 1am.

And you're like, no, I really, I really, really set a very clear deadline in my head at the time I needed to go home. So no, Natalie Holloway, girl I've been flirting with all day and finally managed to get to the beach. No, I know you're sex crazed, but I haven't got time to have sex with you. Exactly. I know I'm irresistible, but I really am very busy. Vandersloot went on to say that he left Natalie at the beach after she refused to leave. And that was all he knew. And phone records showed that Joran vandersloot had actually called one of the calpo brothers at 2 30 a.m so he's not quite in bed for his class the next day and the calpo brothers claim that joran had phoned them to say that he'd left natalie at the beach so at this point it's a bit confusing because they all keep changing their stories but at this point they seem

to be saying that they left Natalie there and then had a phone call about it. I don't know. It's very hard to keep track of their stories because they change so constantly. But what we do know is a text message was sent from Joran van der Sloot's phone to the Kalpoe brothers saying that he'd arrived at their house. And that was sent at around the same time in the kelpo brothers version of events they claim to have dropped natalie and joran off at the beach

and gone straight home after which they had no idea what happened to natalie and apparently they told their mother that the only reason they had lied initially was in order to cover for vander sloop because he'd asked them to investigators were at a complete loss and because they had waited for weeks before reviewing security footage from the beach, the videos had all been erased very conveniently and they had no way to confirm or deny Joran's story. With Aruba police getting nowhere in the investigation and with Aruba being part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, a team of Dutch detectives took over the case. They began searching the family homes of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, a team of Dutch detectives took over the case. They began searching the family homes of the Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot, but found nothing. It's

incredible the Yoruban police hadn't done that already. Six months later, all three were rearrested due to new evidence being found. But what this evidence actually is, nobody knows. It's never been revealed, but it couldn't have been very good. I mean, good as in good evidence, solid evidence, because all three of them were released very shortly afterwards. By this point, this case had completely taken over America. I think it's even more so maybe than like what we're seeing now with the Gabby Petito case, because then it was like not just on the internet. It was like on primetime news.

And I remember back then you would like get together as a family and like watch the news every night. It was completely salacious, you know, and of course everyone was eating it up. You've really got to think about why. I know we've briefly talked about it when we have spoken about the Gabby Petito case, but this case had everything. A pretty missing white girl suspected to have been murdered, a hateable white male suspect in the form of Vanda Sloot, hopeless police work, and all of it set on the backdrop of an island paradise. Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's a reason why everyone knows Amy Bradley's name. You know, it's exotic, it's scary, it's every parent's worst nightmare. When people just evaporate into thin air, there is something quite like, romantic's the wrong word, but there's something about it that's quite mystical.

Yeah, it's something you can't let go of because there's no closure to it. There's no solution. It's like anything. I mean, again, this is such a like glib comparison. But if you misplace something, the time it will occupy in your brain of just you spending hours thinking about where the fuck did I put it? At least if I know. Like, we were in the premiere and I accidentally dropped one of my earrings in the toilet. And I was like, do I leave it?

And Hannah knows how germy, germphobia I am. Yeah, big germo over here. I got it out. I'm very proud of you. Well done. I mean, and then I stood in the shower and scalded my arm for about 20 minutes. Fucking hell. I actually still feel a bit sick thinking about this hand we'll have to chop it off you should cut it off have you seen there's an amazing tiktok this time they're singing it but

I'm not gonna sing it but it's like my sock is wet so now I've got to throw my whole foot away that's what that is what needs to happen my My hand was wet with toilet water. Let's move on before I'm sick. So absolutely back in America, CNN, MSNBC and Fox News devoted hours just speculating about the details of this case because this is the problem. They're kind of all chomping at the bit for new information to report on every night, but there just isn't any. So I can just imagine them having talking heads who sit around and speak. I mean, I know I'm saying this as we're doing this show, but you know, we're not on MSNBC, just speculating about the case, even though there's absolutely no breakthrough. And, you know, fair enough. They did it with good reason because viewing figures rose dramatically

when Natalie Holloway was the topic of conversation. And to his credit, CNN's Anderson Cooper actually chastised his own network for their overblown coverage of Natalie's case. It's very easy to say that. Yeah. They're not going to sack you. They're not going to sack you, Anderson Cooper. No. It's all very easy to talk about retrospectively.

But where were you at the time, Anderson? Even if he said it at the time, I'm like, well, I feel like this is my take on American news channels because they all have anchors. They all have like different like, you know, lead hosts or whatever. And they all have their own show and everything. And I spent a lot of time in America. So, you know, I used to watch like The Lead with Jake Tapper or Rachel Maddows. And I was just like, oh, my God, this is mind numbing stuff. But they all kind of have little quote unquote infights.

But I can't help but feel like they're kind of orchestrated like a reality show. Like what's that guy Cuomo, the New York guy, but his brother is a CNN anchor, Chris Cuomo. And him and like Don Lemon have these, who's another host. They have all these weird little like spats and sometimes they'll appear on each other's show. And I like this is so fucking meta stop like wwe yeah yeah that's exactly it like a weird little rivalry or a weird little spat so i feel like you coming out and

standing up against your own network is nothing because sometimes they just do that like there used to be a guy on fox news who has actually left now and he would say bad things about Fox. And I was like, it's just fucking pantomime. That's what it feels like. The American news, I haven't spent that much time, but American weather girls. The American weather report is porn. And I don't care what anyone says. In this country, to be a weather person, you have to have at least one degree in meteorology.

You have to be a scientist. In America, you just have to have at least one degree in meteorology you have to be a scientist in america you just have to have boobs apparently every time i watch i'm like this cannot be real it's like a caricature that's how i feel a lot of time watching american news and slash weather yeah the american weather it's just the forecast is boobs like that's just it well i can't wait to be looking at it for weeks on end when we go there next year yeah uh we'll have uh content for days maybe i'll just become a weather girl you have got the boobs i do have the boobs and none of the meteorological knowledge perfect you're hired right back to whatever we were talking about the criticism that anderson cupin hailed down upon his own network.

He wasn't the only one who was pretty unhappy. Criticism of the inflated coverage of the case came from all sides. Loads of people talking about how it had shadowed the coverage of missing black and Latino people, men even, and the poor, not to mention the coverage of the Iraq war. We see it all the time.

Maddie McCann syndrome. And there is actually an interesting... I know we talk about Dr. Grande from YouTube all the time on the show, but get over it, he's great. And he actually does a whole mini episode on his YouTube channel called Missing White Woman Syndrome, where he digs into the research into it to see if empirically it's a real thing. Empirically, actually, it turns out it's not in terms of just statistically looking at the way the media reports things. But he does conclude that socially and culturally it is. It's confusing. Go watch it.

I'll leave a link below if I remember to do so. If I don't, guys can just Google it instead of reminding me that I haven't. And it is worth a watch. But when exactly did Missing White Woman become a genre of news in itself? Some people argue that it was in 96 with JonBenet Ramsey. Others argue that it was a few years later with the gruesome triple homicide of Carol Sund, her daughter, and her family friend in the Yosemite National Park in 1999. I know this isn't a missing person, but I would say it's the Central Park Five. I mean, this is the thing.

I would say it's way before JonBenet. I mean, of course, we've had. I mean, this is the thing. I would say it's way before Jean Benet. I mean, of course, we've had newspapers for, you know, fucking centuries. But I think the advent of rolling news is probably where this took a turn. I agree. I agree. That's a good point. So, yeah, hard to pinpoint a case, but I think that's probably it. But whichever case was the spark that lit the fire, cable producers now knew that the missing white woman genre was TV gold.

And just like OJ Simpson had proven, so was the celebrity murder genre. Apparently OJ Simpson, like the chase when he's in like the white Bronco driving away, it was the most pizzas ever ordered were ordered during that chase. It doesn't surprise me. Yeah. And I think until the Ted Bundy trial was televised. No, I think after the Ted Bundy trial, because I think it was the first trial that was ever televised in the US, OJ Simpson racked up the highest viewing figures.

That's why you now have a fucking, what is it? Court TV. Yeah, exactly. So you can come for us for being true crime aficionados all you want, but don't pretend you're not involved too no there was a lady at the show last night who was like i'm really uncomfortable being here bless her she tweeted at us last night though and she was like thank you for reminding me that

actually i'm empathetic and curious and not a weirdo for liking true crime yeah yeah yeah and like you know no one looks down their noses at boys who are obsessed with war documentaries like true crime is just a space where women aren are told that we're not doing it wrong. Anyway. Yes, getting back to the TV genre and the TV hype and general hype around this case. In December of 2010, Time magazine even ranked Natalie Holloway's case

as the most notable criminal event of the year. Which, I'm sorry. Yeah, because there were a lot of others. I feel like the Iraq war maybe trumps it. Yeah, I mean, anybody want to talk about the fucking war crimes committed? No, that is not the most notable criminal event. That is not the most notable criminal event of 2010, Hannah,

because Natalie Holloway's case even beat the Belgian love triangle skydiving murder case. I think I remember that one. That's the one, it's like the fucking army man, right? I have absolutely no idea. I think I remember that one. That's the one, it's like the fucking army man, right? I have absolutely no idea. I think that's the one. And it also trumped the Chinese school shootings

and surprisingly, another for some time missing white girl, the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping trial. Natalie beat them all for the top spot. Remind me Elizabeth Smart. Oh, Elizabeth Smart was,

oh my God, it's such a weird story. She's like young, white, blonde girl in her bed asleep one night in the same room as her sister. So some man comes into the room and kidnaps her and then holds her captive. And she's allowed to go out at times, but she has like a veil on her face and stuff like this. And then she eventually does come back home. I can't remember how she's rescued, actually.

But yeah, that's that case. But yeah Natalie, Natalie Holloway's case beat all of those as most notable criminal event of 2010. I didn't even know Time magazine were keeping track of that. No I didn't either actually. No I don't actually I don't think I've ever opened a copy of Time magazine. I just see who's on the cover. But the reason that everyone knows Natalie Holloway's name and the reason she's trumping all of the crimes for the top spot is down to it's down to her mum beth twitty was tirelessly campaigning for years to get to the bottom of her daughter's disappearance and beth became a staple on television with countless appearances telling the viewers that

the aruban police were not only incompetent but also corrupt which in the caribbean does not surprise me no i would also say here we can add another interesting facet into this story mix because very much like the madeline mccann case beth twitty is a hottie and there's nothing the media love more than a grieving hot mum yes yeah yeah yeah and i don't mean to sound glib i'm not saying that that's okay i'm just saying that's the reason oh it's box office also it'll sell you some papers sell you some ad space on fox news so her making multiple tv appearances led to an appearance on everyone's favorite bigger than beyonce dr ph. And this particular moment in the spotlight ended with Dr. Phil calling for the people of America to boycott Aruba as a holiday destination

until the Aruban authorities did, in his eyes, what he believed to be their utmost to solve the case. I mean, I know people are always like, oh, like, only Judy can judge me. I don't think Dr. Phil can hold anyone to account for anything. No, the man isn't a doctor. I know we've been confused about it on this show before. He's not a doctor. So I actually love how Dr. Grande, who again, of YouTube fame, doesn't call it the Dr. Phil show. He calls it the Phil McGraw show. And this is obviously a bit irresponsible of Phil McGraw to say, I would say, because a large

percentage of Aruba's GDP comes from their booming tourist industry. And this call for an international boycott had everyone on the tiny island nation absolutely terrified. But thankfully, the US federal government decided not to back the boycott. And somehow, Aruba's tourism actually saw a nine percent increase in 2005 from the previous year i guarantee that those nine percent are filled with people who've never heard of aruba before and i just heard it on the news i mean like oh that sounds nice yeah and then they're just seeing endless shots of beaches where they're like and this was where natalie holloway was last seen yeah they're just just filtering out that bit it's white noising that i'm sure aruba is very beautiful a lot of caribbean is very beautiful i've not been to well i went to belize yeah belize counts that's it belize is

that it's that vibe is yeah oh yeah yeah yeah i very much had that vibe for a long time i was lucky enough to go to kia kuka one of the islands off there with our friend dami who's the one who introduced us and uh it was hysterical my favorite thing was would like walk down the road and all the men who would like sit on the side just like hanging out would speak to dami on the first day we arrived and then they just call him hey landan every time we walked past and they'd be like why are you walking so quickly it was so funny i had a great time landon slow down but enough of a rupa let's get back to Privileged Pants. In 2007, Joran van der Sloot actually released a book in Dutch called The Case of Natalie Holloway. Oh my god, shut up, shut up. In which he gives what he claims to be his full side of the story,

maintaining that he had absolutely no clue where she was or what had happened to her. Well, he's got so many fucking versions of that night, he can fill a book. Yeah. Fucking hell. her well he's got so many fucking versions of that night he can fill a book yeah fucking hell and he goes on to change his mind again because in 2008 so just a year after he publishes his book saying he has absolutely no idea what's going on um he pulls his most bizarre move yet he went back on cable television and admitted to a disposing of natalie holloway's body and this time it wasn't a three-part fox News interview either because van der Sloot by this point was living in the Netherlands and he was in a car one day which

he had no idea had been secretly fitted with security cameras by a reporter. High as a kite and sat next to who he thought was just a Dutch businessman, van der Sloot began telling the man all about the case of Natalie Holloway and what happened that night. He claimed that Natalie had actually had a seizure on the beach and once she had become unresponsive he had decided to put her body on a boat and dump it at sea and he also said that his father who remember is Paulus van der Sloot who was also a local judge had actually helped him get rid of Natalie's body and advised him to go to school the following day and act normal. Apparently lawyer and soon-to-be judge Daddy Paulus had even told his son to get back to the casino to make sure he was spotted by the cameras. The police had actually been

suspicious of Daddy Van der Sloot throughout the investigation, but they never managed to find any solid evidence to connect him to the crime. This taxicab confession footage was aired as a part of a documentary made by a Dutch journalist, but Joran simply said he was lying and just saying what he thought the man wanted to hear. Why would you think that a Dutch businessman you were hoping to do business with would be like, what's he saying to you that makes you think

that's what he wanted to hear? Was he like, oh, go on, go on, admit that you killed Natalie Holloway. That's really what I want to hear. And he's like, oh, go right then. I know you. I want you something to do with Natalie Holloway. My favourite idea is that this Dutch journalist is, do you remember that, the Sunday Times shake or not Sunday Times? Oh, that's exactly what I was going to think. The sun shake.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or whoever it was. The fake shake. The fake shake. Yeah fake shake, yeah. If you guys aren't from the UK and you don't know what we're talking about, basically, I can't remember which newspaper he was affiliated with.

I think it was The Mirror. The Mirror. Let's go with The Mirror. We can say whatever we want on this True Crime podcast. Let's say he's a freelance journalist and he was getting these stories and then selling them to newspapers. I actually think...

It might have been The News of the World. You know what? The fucking News of the world doesn't exist anymore. It probably was the news of the world. He would dress up, these journalists would dress up like a sheik and then go and talk to all of these incredibly famous people.

Yeah, he was like, come and do drugs with me in a hotel room. And these rich, famous people are like, yes, we do that all the time. And then they just spill their deepest, darkest secrets to him. I mean, he got like members of the royal family he got fergie didn't he yeah but everyone's called fergie yeah and then he got they got

someone else from the royals oh yeah he's been about yeah i've forgotten who it is but yeah he's basically like borat but a journalist yeah that's actually a very very good description i i just would love to watch this and it just turn around and it's just this guy dressed as a sheik sat next to Jorgen van der Sloot. Jorgen van der Sloot. So just a few months after this documentary aired, Jorgen went back on old favourite Fox News for yet another interview about the case. And if you thought it couldn't get any more bizarre, you are in correctington because Jorgen has even more versions of events up his sleeve because this time yoran claimed that he had actually sold natalie holloway to a sex trafficking ring why not why the fuck not i mean ruben does have the reputation for it's the last chapter of his

book he even went on to say that his father paulus van der slo, had bribed two Aruban policemen to keep quiet after they had learned that Natalie had been taken to Venezuela. When asked what happened, Joran said, quote, I stepped out of the car. She was with me. I went to the beach with her. We were making out. We never did anything else. At first, I didn't see anybody else there. And I thought, thought whatever it's not going to happen. Then suddenly I saw a guy and he came and he handed me a bag grabbed the girl by the arm and took her to the boat that he had in the water. He said that Natalie never even struggled or tried to escape instead she just kept asking him meaning Joran why he wasn't coming with them as Joran had apparently told her that they were going to the beach to get on a boat.

So he's basically saying that Natalie Holloway is so drunk that she doesn't realise she's being kidnapped because she thinks she's going on a boat ride. Hmm. Hmm, indeed. The bag that Joran claims to have been handed was full of cash. But as he had done numerous times before, shortly after this weird interview aired,

Joran came out and said that he'd been lying and none of it was true. Why do people keep getting him beyond telly? Because they just put him on, he says fucking crazy shit and then their ratings go through the roof. We're Fox News, we don't care about truth. Clearly nothing that comes out of Joran's mouth

can be trusted or taken seriously even and it's also clear that he loves attention even if he does come across as the villain. And just when you thought he couldn't get any worse. In March 2010, five years since Natalie's disappearance, Joran van der Sloot sent an email to Natalie's parents' lawyer offering to reveal the exact location

of their daughter's body and specific details about how she died in exchange for $250,000. Obviously, you guys know, we would never go around diagnosing people. We don't have the business to be doing that. But I do think it's fair to say that Joran van der Sloot is not not a psychopath. If there is anywhere that grows people like Joran van der Sloot, it is international schools. In Aruba, especially. Yeah, fight me,

it's true. Like I have been around a lot of people who have gone to international schools from various life situations. A lot of them end up at SOAS. And there are three categories of international school student. There are the ones that are okay. There are the ones that are incredibly obnoxious, and they go on to be politicians, barristers, etc. And then there are the trustafarians who have so so much money but dress like they're completely homeless they love telling other people how to live their lives under the guise of being a shaman a shame oh yeah yeah i've met many a shaman a shaman yep that's my most hated form of international student is uh people who are incredibly incredibly privileged but have

no sense of the fact that nothing bad has ever happened to them so therefore they can't really empathize with people so yeah a psychopath or not psychopath international student in one of those tiers jorgen van der sloot calls natalie's parents and tells them this that he'll tell them where her body is in exchange for the quarter of a million natalie's parents actually inform the fbi by email straight away but they wired your own fifteen thousand dollars i wish that they had waited for the fbi to say something yeah like don't do it like when lucy blackman's dad accepted the money from yoji obara's family or legal team or whatever because he was like well it makes no difference but it's quite culturally significant in japan to accept money or kind of say no harm no foul and yeah i wish they'd waited too yeah

because they're giving this money to him and i wish that they had waited for some form of confirmation about anything i mean he goes on to give them an address telling them that natalie's remains were inside the house the only problem was that this house had been built after Natalie's disappearance, so obviously her remains couldn't be inside the house. The FBI indicted Van der Sloot for extortion and wire fraud following this, but not before he had managed to flee to Peru with the $15,000 that he had conned from the Twitties. And interestingly, he hadn't just run off to Peru to hide from the FBI. Oh no, apparently Joran Vandesloot was in Peru to take part in a poker tournament.

Kill me, I would like to die, please. A month later, the badly beaten and decomposing body of 21-year-old student Stephanie Flores Ramirez was discovered in a hotel room under Joran's name in Lima, Peru. The body had been there for a while

before being discovered because Joran had instructed hotel staff not to enter the room. He was arrested in Chile and extradited back to Peru. Joran gave Lima police a full confession, saying that he'd lost his temper with Stephanie after she'd gone on his laptop without his permission and had found some information linking him to Natalie Holloway's murder. Two years later, in 2012, Joran pleaded guilty to the murder of Stephanie Ramirez and was sentenced to 28 years in prison, which I really hope he has to do in Peru.

Yeah, I think he does. So during his guilty plea, Yoran said, quote, I wanted from the first moment to confess sincerely. I truly am sorry for this act. I feel very bad. The defence blamed his actions on the, quote, extreme psychological trauma that he had suffered from the long-running Holloway saga. But prosecutors were convinced that he had killed Stephanie to rob her of her winnings from a casino. Hotel staff had seen both of them, so that's Stephanie and Van der Sloot,

entering the room together and said that Joran never returned the key and had left the TV running. Police found CCTV footage of the two playing poker together at the Atlantic City Casino in Lima. Joran had entered Peru via Colombia to play in the Latin American Poker Tour. Stephanie's father, a prominent businessman in Peru, said that date rate drugs were found in her car and that her credit cards, jewellery, ID and over $10,000 in poker winnings were missing from her vehicle. An autopsy found that Stephanie had not had sexual intercourse before her death. It was also found that she'd suffered from a blunt force trauma to the head which resulted in a brain hemorrhage,

cranial fractures and a broken neck. Her face also showed significant injuries and signs of asphyxiation. The suspected murder weapon was a tennis racket found in the hotel room. That same month in January 2012, now seven years after Natalie's disappearance, an Alabama judge officially declared Natalie to be dead. But what truly happened to her will likely never be known. Going back to the far-fetched story that Joran van der Sloot told on his second Fox News interview, where he claimed to have sold Natalie into sexual slavery, well, something happened in 2008 that makes this version of events seem slightly more plausible.

Joran van der Sloot actually worked for a Thai sex trafficking ring in Bangkok for a short while before being caught on hidden camera once again he was operating under the alias murphy jenkins it's fake fake name mcgee and yeah he was posing as a production manager for a modeling agent which is a big fucking sex offender red flag right there yeah do model agencies need production managers? I don't know. I don't know. So here's the latest edition of Van der Sloot Makes It Up. Apparently, he would tell Thai women that he could get them modelling jobs in Europe,

but would actually sell them into sexual slavery in the Netherlands for $13,000 a woman. The footage was aired by the same reporter who'd secretly filmed him in the car in the Netherlands, where he admitted to having disposed of Natalie's body. And as for Joran's father, Paulus found a salute. Well, the Calpo brothers claimed that he had been aware of Joran's involvement in Natalie's disappearance from the very start, and he'd advised Joran that if the police didn't have a body, then they wouldn't have a case. In 2005, Paulus was detained by the police for questioning about Natalie's disappearance, but he was released just three days later, even attempted to seek damages for this, but he was unsuccessful. But interestingly, Beth Twitty, that's Natalie's mum, told reporters that Paulus

van der Sloot had actually contacted her privately shortly after Natalie's disappearance, saying that he was unable to control his son and had tried his best to get him psychiatric help in the past. I mean, fucking hell. If that's true, that is mind-blowing. In 2019, Paulus van der Sloot actually went bankrupt from fighting this case and died from a heart attack whilst playing tennis in Aruba. Joran van der Sloot's mother, Anita,

says that Paulus's death had a huge impact on Joran and that he blamed himself for it. He left Aruba before she was able to get him involuntarily committed and he apparently left his mum a note which just read, I'm gone now, don't worry. As for what really happened to Natalie Holloway, I think it's most likely that Joran van der Sloot did murder her that night. Whether the Calpo brothers were involved is another question altogether. But the fact that he confessed to the murder of Stephanie Ramirez and given his involvement with Thai sex trafficking gangs, he seems a little bit more capable of having killed Natalie.

And I think the state of Stephanie's body just shows that he's just a red mist kind of guy. So do I think he murdered her? Yeah, probably. a red mist kind of guy so do i think he murdered her yeah probably and when extremely privileged people aren't given what they want they don't like it but what happened to natalie what where is her body uh we will probably never know but it does seem a little bit strange that if he just left her on the beach or dumped her body in the water so close to land that she wouldn't have shown up somewhere this is the thing like he must have also been in a state like they'd been drinking for a long time

and all of the witnesses say that he was also very drunk like how far out would you have to take a body to see in order to dump it for it to not resurface on shore like surely miles and i find it hard to believe that on an island that small if he had gone out in like a little fucking wooden rowboat that he would have been able to get the body far enough away. But if he had taken it out on like a mechanized boat, that people wouldn't have heard it.

Yeah, very true. I mean, we got a lot of flack in the Amy Bradley episode all of those moons ago for saying that bodies dumped at sea always wash up. It's kind of true. Amy Bradley case was like this.

She was three miles from shore. So if she had drowned, it's pretty likely that she would have shown up. Same with Natalie. So I don't believe she's in the water no I just think the boat like if you were on a boat it's a bit more understandable like if you're on a cruise liner like Amy was but this is I just can't believe that he in that condition would have been able to get Natalie's body far enough away that it wouldn't have washed back up onto the island yeah I agree but I'm not saying it's an impossibility. It just seems a bit unlikely.

So then I guess like the sex trafficking angle comes into it. Did he need to just get Natalie to the beach in order for a pickup to happen? Did he spot her in amongst that group of all of those students that had come? He picks her out. Easy prey. She looks exactly like what he needs. He grooms her. They hung out. Then he just takes her to the beach and takes his money. Yeah, yeah. It wouldn't surprise me at all. Doesn't appear to have any morals whatsoever.

So where is Joran van der Sloot now? Well, he's serving his 28-year sentence for murdering Stephanie Ramirez in Chalapacha prison in Peru, after which he could be extradited to the US to be tried for the wire fraud and extortion of Natalie's family. And if Beth Twitty, Natalie's mum, got anything to do with it, you can bet your fucking ass that he will be back. In July 2014, Joran van der Sloot actually married a Peruvian woman named Lady Figueroa,

whom he had met whilst she was working in the prison selling goods. I don't really know what that means. It kind of sounds like she was selling something illegal. I mean, yeah, I think that prisons in Latin America, depending on the country, obviously I'm not tiring everyone with the same brush, but people do live with their wives in prison. Interesting. Actually, I really want to do, there's that really famous prison in La Paz.

I really want to do an episode. There's an amazing book called Marching Powder about a British a British guy who basically lived his life in there and they just manufacture cocaine and like everyone pays rent to live there people's wives are allowed to come and go there are kids I've seen the documentaries so I I'll put it on the list Lady and Vandis Luke get married and on the 28th of September 2014, Lady actually gave birth to their first child. And it seems, as far as I can tell from Google, that the pair are still together. Now there hasn't been much movement on the case of Natalie Holloway in recent years. But there are still articles, news reports and documentaries released about the case on an almost yearly basis. There was even a made-for-TV movie shot about this case called Natalie Holloway.

And it's just so grim. Like, if you Google it and take a look at the front cover or, like, the cover art for it, it's just, like, a blonde girl smiling and it just says Natalie Holloway. I'm like, OK, you could have changed the name. But then I guess that's the whole brand. Why would you? That's what's going to pull in the views although there hasn't been any clear updates there was a bit of a weird little twist that's worth maybe mentioning because in 2017 a man named John Ludwig actually claimed

in one of these many many documentaries that are churned out about this case that he had in fact killed Natalie along with Joran van der Slo. Ludwig states in this documentary made by Oxygen that he and Joran had crushed Natalie's bones until they were no longer recognisable as human remains. That is impossible. You are not God. And he also said to get rid of her hair fibres, they burn her skull, dousing it in gasoline, quote, in a fire pit, in a cave.

No, you didn't. Unless you have a nuclear reactor it is impossible to completely dispose of a human body with just a fire so it's no surprise that these claims couldn't be verified uh and if he was really involved or not uh we'll never know because in 2018 ludwig was stabbed to death in florida by a woman he was trying to abduct question how so when you get your body cremated then do they smash it up does the fire not just incinerate everything it's a really hot fire yeah you can't start a fire in a fire pit and dispose of a body no definitely not and i think that's like a lot of pressure and stuff

oh actually actually i think any funeral directors in the household, but I think that some bits will not completely disintegrate and they are taken out. They're not given in the urn. So I think, I think, because like teeth. Yeah, I don't know. Because like, obviously, my family are Hindu, we cremate. And yeah, because they just do it. They don't even do it in crematoriums. They do it out in the, out in the open, like on a pyre.

So I don't know actually what's left and how much of it is done but i'm guessing it's hotter than a pit fire yeah i mean yeah get in touch maybe we're completely wrong but i have a feeling that uh it's impossible and oxygen will not quit because they made this documentary six whole parts and they even paid for ludwig to go back to aruba and find the remains that he claimed were Natalie's. But when they tested the remains, surprise, surprise, it turned out to be not Natalie Holloway. We don't know what they did find. Yeah, because they're just like, they found the remains in this cave, test it.

And it's not a match for the mitochondrial DNA sample that they got from Beth Twitty. And they're just like, nowhere I saw mentions if it was human remains or did they investigate whose remains they were. They're just like, it's not Natalie, whatever. If I can chuck it back in the pit. Back in the pit you go. Also, we don't know because we can't watch the documentary in the UK because oxygen aren't very nice to us. But it's our fault for leaving the EU.

Beth Twitty, Natalie's mum, is suing a hell of oxygen for the show. And 16 years later, she continues to search for her daughter. She fronts quite a lot of true crime documentaries. Does Beth. And did she go out with John Bonilla Ramsey? She did.

When we were doing the research for this, I actually was like looking into it. And yeah, she's been doing a lot of advocacy work and campaigning on behalf of the Petito family. It feels like a natural fit for her. And sorry, the amount she's suing Oxygen for, can you guess how much it is? Is it more or less than Dr. Phil is worth? I mean, it's less.

Everything is less than the amount Dr. Phil is worth. Okay. 100 million. 35 million. yeah i mean it's fair enough because she was like they're just making this documentary to get ratings up and she says she claims beth twitty claims that they knew that those remains were not natalie's and they put her through the trauma of making her give dna samples and everything and going out there and doing this whole fucking pantomime and i'm like she's probably right yeah fucking sue him whatever so no i did find out also during the research for this case

that yes beth twitty and george twitty sadly they get divorced after this and for a brief while she dated none other than mr john bernie ramsey of john bernie Ramsey fame. Oh, yeah. I mean, make of that what you will, really. Talk about a power couple. Yeah. Grief power couple. Yeah, no, it's, I guess like you've both been through a horrible trauma get together. No, they both downplayed the relationship, but it does seem that it was romantic in nature. Interesting.

Interesting. So that is it, guys. That is the case of Natalie Holloway. Much requested, actually, from all of you. Anyone got any theories? interesting so that is it guys that is the case of natalie holloway much requested actually from all of you anyone got any theories i think i think most likely sex trafficking uh that is uh my theory also it's also what i think happened to amy bradley that would be my guess but you know we we are idiots and our thoughts don't matter i mean that that is also true but i think you know if you're like well why would anybody bother going through the effort of kidnapping an american

student when you're going to attract so much attention because natalie holloway as a specimen quote unquote to these people is going to fetch the big bucks oh yeah big time big time it's worth taking the risk for them and i can absolutely see that joran vandersloot is the kind of guy who's on this island who just you know sends a message to his contacts being like are you fucking serious there's 120 american students here from alabama and like 50 of them are women and 50 of those are blonde get your ass over here yeah i feel like given how small the island is and the fact that her body never turned up i feel like that makes the most sense i agree so that's it guys like we said at the top of the show head on over to patreon.com slash red-handed if you

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