RedHanded - Episode 227 - The Slenderman Stabbing

Episode Date: January 6, 2022

On May 31, 2014, in Waukesha, Wisconsin, two 12-year-old girls, Anissa Weier and Morgan Geyser, lured their best friend Payton Leutner into the woods and stabbed her 19 times. They claimed it was in an attempt to become proxies of the fictional character Slender Man. It was a case that gained the attention of the press internationally, bringing children's internet usage and "creepypastas" to the forefront of public attention. But what really happened in the woods that day? Text sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slender_Man_stabbing https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/21/slender-man-case-anissa-weier-sentenced https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42913133 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27776894#:~:text=The%20Slender%20Man%20meme%20began,with%20which%20to%20terrify%20people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slender_Man https://hazlitt.net/longreads/living-slenderman https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK541211/#:~:text=Shared%20psychotic%20disorder%20(Folie%20a%20deux)%20is%20an%20unusual%20mental,secondary)%20with%20a%20specific%20belief. https://www.vqronline.org/essays-articles/2017/10/out-came-girls Video Sources: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dgwJxVQpLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXsB5lLgeH8 Beware The Slender Man - Amazon Prime https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COJzKcxhJII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmjbfq1dUA4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8arxEC_6Is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9p3jLeDblg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbP1wUx8mYwSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, sausages.

Happy New Year. We have returned from our Christmas commute back to our family homesteads, and we are now back. However, you will notice that this is a slight change in the original programming. We were going to kick off the new year with a two-parter on Scientology. We're still going to do that, but it will be next week because unfortunately, Saru's had a bit of an accident.

She's fine, but she is stuck at home and cannot get in to record anything. And we wanted to do the episode justice, so we're just going to wait a week until she's back on her feet but please don't worry about it she's absolutely fine so what we've decided to do because we didn't want to let you down completely this is a patreon bonus episode from a few months ago on the slenderman killings so i hope you enjoy what you're about to hear and we'll be back next week as soon as we possibly can we're incredibly sorry but we promise we'll make it up to you next week so here we are

I'm Hannah I'm Sruti and welcome to your July bonus episode. I can't believe it's July. I mean, what, what, what? July? It's summer. It's happened. It's happening. Yeah. It's almost the end by the time you're listening to this. Fuck it out. It's like the 19th of July. Oh my God. Madness. This whole year has just been so like, obviously last year was just totally suspended animation but this one feels kind of the same I feel like it's so like stop stars he's like oh is it can we is it no are we back to no fine but we're rolling with it who knows maybe by the time this goes out the restrictions will have ended who knows anything is possible by the time this goes out the creepypasta that inspired the story

might be relevant again. Who knows? I mean, by the time this comes out, Dr. Phil might be president. We have no idea. We haven't got a clue. We haven't got a clue. I did actually watch,

I mean, please don't anybody do this. I know I'm starting to give away what we're talking about. Not that you haven't already seen the title or read the copy. I did actually watch the horrible, horrible, horrible Hollywood film that was made on this called Slender Man. No.

Because I love a trash horror film. Oh, no. I know. Sorrenti Bala, what a mistake. I know, I know. Hear me out, guys. So I really love a trash horror film. But there's, like, great horror films.

And then there's trash horror films that are so bad that they're enjoyable I think that's how I feel about Event Horizon I'm not sure I have mixed feelings but then there's ones that are like there's one called Starry Eyes there's one called Wish Upon ones like that that are just so trash like utter utter fucking garbage that they are so funny and I thought that slender man would be one of those but the problem is that the people who made it take themselves entirely too seriously that's my least favorite and you are like what how did you think that you could get away with this also another gripe if you haven't seen it and you're like maybe she's been a bit harsh let me go watch the trailer what you see in the trailer half of the stuff in the trailer doesn't happen in the

film because they got censored because they were like you're not allowed to put this in because that child got stabbed and you're not allowed to put this in and people were like there was a whole thing about people getting up in arms about it so then they hurriedly took it back into the studio and cut a bunch of stuff out and then it's like oh so you just released that trailer though with a bunch of things that didn't actually happen in the film oh god actually when it came out in the US all of the cinemas in Wisconsin refused to play it because of the story we're about to talk about so they refused to play it because they were like you shouldn't be profiting off

this was that the argument? Yeah they were just like it's too close to it and also like do they really care I don't know I think it was a bit of a PR stunt possibly they probably knew that that film was going to make them absolutely no money so they were like we might as well profit off in another way by saying that we find this movie abhorrent but even that kind of notoriety didn't get that film enough fucking credibility or eyes on it, which is just probably the biggest sad comment I could make. But no, it is quite terrible. Horror film trailers in particular, man. Did you ever watch that movie It Comes at Night? No. Well, spoilers, nothing fucking comes at night.

Absolutely fucking nothing, despite what the trailer would have you believe. And I'm going to ruin it because I don't care. The film's been out for ages. I know we're well off track. I've just gone down my favorite loophole of like screaming about horror films. The trailer of It Comes at Night, in that they use scenes from people's nightmares in the movie and make it seem like it's a thing that happened in the movie. That is so fucking sneaky, isn't it? That is pretty sneaks. I hate it. And then you're like, fuck, that's terrifying. And

then you watch it and you're like, oh no, that's a dream sequence. Nightmares do generally come at night though. So they've kind of got you there. No, in this literally nothing comes at night except people having weird trippy nightmares. Anyway, there you go. Very quick review on two films that you didn't ask about or think had anything to do with anything. Shall we crack on with today's case? Yes. You guys already know what we're talking about. Obviously, it's very hard to build suspense

when you have to title these episodes. That's what I've found. To begin the tragic case that we're covering this month, we have to first take you back to 2009. This was a year pre-COVID, before we knew what it was like to be locked up in our houses. It was the time when Barack Obama, drone airstrike extraordinaire, had just won the Nobel Peace Prize. Usain Bolt had set a new world record for the 100-meter sprint, and in a dark corner of the internet, a thin, unnaturally

tall man with a featureless face and tentacle shooting out of his back was born. It was on an internet forum called Something Awful that user Eric Knudsen submitted the now-famous Slender Man, a fictional supernatural being, as part of a creepypasta competition. I hate how I say creepypasta. How do you say it? Is that how I'm saying it right? competition. I hate how I say creepypasta. How do you say it? Is that how I'm saying it right? Creepypasta? I say creepypasta.

Yeah, okay. We're so used to Americans saying it and they say creepypasta or whatever. Yes, right. And I think it is like a... I'm just going to shamelessly rip this off from Last Podcast on the list. Let's just call it spooky spaghetti because I think that's better. That is better. That is better.

I enjoy that's better. That is better. That is better. I enjoy that more. But for the sake of, I don't know, patent pending, trademark, IP allocation. And for those of you who don't know what a creepypasta is, the term basically refers to horror content that's posted on the internet. So this isn't like anything new. Like it's very much like an evolution of urban legends or creepy folklore that people would tell each other. It's just gone from something that you, I don't know, tell drunkenly at a fucking GIMP.org is able to manipulate photographs to include pictures of their creepypasta supernatural beings that they're talking about. And it is good fun. I'm here for it. What's your favorite one? This is what I was about to say. I said I'm here for it as in like a concept. I believe in the tradition of us like

scaring the fucking shit out of each other. I love horror films I feel like creepypastas maybe I was like aged out before they became a thing and Slender Man is probably the one that I'm the most aware of and maybe like the Japanese woman who wears a surgical mask and then she takes it off and she's got a big slash in her face and then she asks you if you're beautiful and if you say whatever you say she kills you or she cuts your face or something like that. I don't know if that's like a Japanese

myth folklore more so. Yeah, it's like based on a legend but obviously sort of modernised. There's another Japanese lady

who sort of crawls along the floor. Russian Sleep Experiment is my favourite one. That is a very good one. That is a very good one. If you haven't listened to anything about

the Russian Sleep Experiment literally just go put it into youtube and a hundred million things will pop out and it is quite fun to just like watch and listen to and scare yourself but yeah i think i was maybe a little bit aged out before they became like super popular i guess you could almost say things like the blair witch were the original kind of things i think that's the key thing about creepypastas like even though everyone knows it's a story, they're all told in a way that is like a fact. I think that's a key detail. And they all have, not all, but mostly, that's why I'm linking to Blair Witch, they have some sort of accompanying quote unquote evidence to go with it.

Yes, yes, yes, yeah. So that's what we're talking about. So like we've discussed, these creepypastas usually are brief paranormal stories or images that are meant to scare readers. And they usually cover topics like ghosts, murders, and even sometimes zombies. And Slender Man is one, if not the most famous creepypasta ever created. So for this particular competition on the Something Awful forum, Eric photoshopped his creation lurking in the background of an old picture of children playing at a park and he submitted it with the following text. And this comes back to what Hannah was saying about it always being presented as if it's factual. So the text read, one of two recovered photographs from

the Stirling City Library blaze, notable for being taken on the day that 14 children vanished and for what is referenced to as the Slender Man. Deformities cited as film defects by officials. Fire at the library occurred one week later. Actual photograph confiscated as evidence. And then underneath it says, 1986, photographer Mary Thomas Thomas missing since June 13th, 1986. So yeah, we'll post a picture of the picture so you guys can take a look at it.

And it's essentially like, it looks like a very 80s shot. It's in black and white. It's a bunch of kids playing on a playground. There's a big slide. They all look very happy. It looks like a very sunny day, even though it's a black and white picture. And then there's some trees in the background and there's a very tall figure and you can see some tentacles and it's very, very subtle. You know, it's not tacky. It's not like he's in

the foreground and it's meant to be like that. It's very subtle. That's what's meant to be creepy. I'll give it to you. If I had seen this when people were maybe a bit more naive about what could be done on the internet, I would be scared, you know? Yeah, totally. It's very, very well done. Like, it's just, you know, Eric's done a good job. Absolutely. He's fulfilled the brief, for sure. Tick.

Eric's submission went viral and people all over the world went to town at creating their own spooky bitch Slender Man content based on his work. There were drawings, short stories, novels, found footage, YouTube videos of sightings, video games, and later, the pile of shit that Saru was talking about at the top of the show, a Hollywood-backed movie made about the creature.

Slender Man was a viral sensation. Of course, we all know Slender Man isn't real. He couldn't be. He's just a creepy fictional character from the internet created for a fantasy competition. But that's where things get a bit complicated. On the 31st of May 2014, Slender Man would be blamed for the brutal stabbing of a 12-year-old girl. It was a case that hit the headlines internationally, causing a moral panic that brought creepypastas and kids' internet use

to the forefront of public attention. However, before we get into that, we're going to have to tell you about three girls from Walkershaw, Wisconsin. You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either, until I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness, and inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more.

Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. He was hip-hop's biggest mogul, the man who redefined fame, fortune, and the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Sean Diddy Combs. Diddy built an empire and lived a life most people only dream about. Everybody know ain't no party like a Diddy party, so. Yeah, that's what you said.

But just as quickly as his empire rose, it came crashing down. Today I'm announcing the unsealing of a three-count indictment, charging Sean Combs with racketeering conspiracy, sex trafficking, interstate transportation for prostitution. I was f***ed up. I hit rock bottom. But I made no excuses. I'm disgusted. I'm so sorry. Until you're wearing an orange jumpsuit, it's not real. Now it's real. From his meteoric rise to his shocking fall from grace, from law and crime, this is the Rise and Fall of Diddy. Listen to the Rise and Fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery Plus. The sleepy city of Walkershaw is known by locals as a very safe place.

So safe, in fact, that as of 2014, there had only been nine recorded homicide cases in the last decade. A common phrase that kept popping up during our research was, it's Walkershaw, nothing bad ever happens in Walkershaw. Now, of course, this isn't true. Otherwise, we wouldn't be talking about it here on Red Handed. But the general vibe is very much that Walkershaw is a nice place to live and to raise a family. Morgan Geyser and Peyton Lutner came from two such families and grew up in the city. Morgan and Peyton had known each other since kindergarten and become best friends in the fourth grade, which is at about like nine or ten years old.

And this actually happened, and I thought this was very sweet, after Peyton had spotted Morgan sitting alone at lunch. She decided to go and sit with her and from that point on the girls became inseparable, bonding over their mutual love of cats and drawing. Morgan's mum described her as a quote quirky child. She would spend hours alone in her room speaking to imaginary friends including but not limited to, a rainbow unicorn and, very specifically, Professor Snape from Harry Potter. And, you know, this kind of thing is pretty fucking normal for a nine or ten year old, I assume, and so Morgan's parents didn't think too much of it.

After all, most children her age have had imaginary friends. But what they did notice about Morgan was that she seemed to lack empathy. Morgan's parents recalled a time when Morgan was that she seemed to lack empathy. Morgan's parents recalled a time when Morgan was very little and the family had sat down to watch Bambi and when, spoilers, Bambi's mum dies, four-year-old Morgan seemed totally unaffected. She told her parents that there was no point in Bambi being sad about something he couldn't change. That is so dark. That's fucking cold. That's fucking cold. And like yes four is very young but absolutely by four years old children have a sense of like empathy and like the ability to see that something sad is happening and to feel that pain. But Morgan no

she's she's not here for it. She hasn't got time to waste on feelings and feeling sad and wasting your time thinking about things that you can't change, apparently. No. You'd be scared, wouldn't you, if you're a four-year-old, you're watching Bambi and you're sobbing. I haven't watched Bambi because I don't want to do that to myself. I know everyone's very upset. I just, I can't.

I haven't watched Dumbo either. It just seems very sad. To be honest, in the grand scheme of the Disney catalogue, of which I have seen all of it multiple times, it's just not that good. No, it just seems too sad. It's not even because it's sad. It's just like actively really boring and the songs aren't even good. And like, I just, I don't care. I'm just not interested. The only good thing that happens in Bambi is the little skunk being like, you can call me flower if you want to. That's just us. So don't worry about it. If you haven't seen Bambi, don't bother. I've just given you the best bit. It's fine. Excellent. I feel absolutely vindicated now. But I assume if I

did watch it, I would be a sobbing mess. And I don't think there is anything colder I can imagine than if I one day have a four year old, we watch Bambi together, I'm crying hysterically and I look down at my child and my child's like, what's your point? What's your point though? Yeah, I don't think I ever cried at Bambi. I definitely still cry at Dumbo when his mum dies. That floods, floods of tears every time. Didn't watch Dumbo because I knew that was going to happen. I did watch Fox and the Hound, which is just too sad. I can't cope with that film. I never vibed with Fox and the Hound. I think because I didn't have it on VHS,

but all of the other ones I had and would repeatedly watch over and over and over again. Fox and the Hound, I just didn't have it. So I don't feel that like emotional connection to it. I obsessively watched quite an odd Disney film, and this is 100% true. I had the VHS of

Fantasia and I wore that shit out. I watched it like twice a day when I was little. See maybe we are supposed to be together because I also obsessively watched Fantasia. Oh my god you're like the first person that's not been like what the fuck is wrong with you? I love that film. My favorite one is The Devilman That Lives in the Mountain. That's my favorite one. There's so many good ones. I love it. Oh my God, I love Fantasia.

Everyone is always super like, you were such a weird child. Like, why didn't you just like fucking, I don't know, Cinderella or whatever shit it is. And I was like, no, Fantasia was the one for me. I wore that tape out. I love that film. I love it. Just so great. So great. Quite a lot of my knowledge of classical music is, is it the hippos or is it the mushrooms? Because that's how I know. And the big manta ray.

Yeah, they had to recut. You must have heard about this. Oh, yeah. You know, the centaurs, there's like the very obviously supposed to be depicting a black person centaur. And it's like the servant of the other centaurs. It's been recut now. They've re-released it. It's taken out. Well, that's nice. That's nice.

Maybe I should get a remastered, recut version to watch. Yeah, right. I feel like such an urge to go watch it now. But anyway, we're well off track. But yes, that was my favourite. So Peyton, on the other hand, was very empathetic. She volunteered regularly at a cat sanctuary near her home and was described by people around her as shy,

but loving, who was always looking out for others. And this was demonstrated, of course, by the fact that she reached out to Morgan when she was sat alone. Everything was going well for the girls. They'd hang out on the weekend, have sleepovers and play in the park together whenever they'd get a chance. That was until the sixth grade, so that's like 11, 12 years old, when Anissa Weyer, a new girl in town, joined Morgan and Peyton's class. Anissa's dad had moved to the same block of flats Morgan's family lived in

and the pair shared the same bus to and from school. Anissa's childhood was distinctly average. Her parents were divorced but had a good relationship despite their breakup. She went to choir practice every week and liked to spend time on her iPad watching YouTube videos and FaceTiming with her friends from home. So that's very normal 12-year-old kid stuff. On the school bus journeys, Anissa and Morgan became close and Anissa would tell Morgan all about the new website she had found which was called the Creepy

Pasta Wiki and Anissa specifically liked talking about the character called Slenderman. Oh it's scary isn't it because obviously even what they're doing at this point is just like normal child behavior like normal child behavior, like normal child stuff to be fascinated with something like that. It's only creepy retrospectively because we know what's about to happen. But like, it's so scary, like how an idea can take hold. Like just that seed being planted of this is Slender Man and then what goes on to happen. Foreshadowing.

It's scary. And I would have eaten this up at 12 years old. Are you kidding? I would have loved this shit. Oh, God, yes. Oh, my God. I was, like, thirsty for scary content as a 12-year-old. Like, my friends and I used to sit around in the school playground telling each other ghost stories. And obviously, we didn't have enough, like, life experience or exposure to scary things to be able to tell a good scary story we were just telling things that we were scared about which is like obviously where scary stories start from no shade on that but like to have an external

wiki on creepypastas and scare oh my god I would have been fucking obsessed absolutely obsessed Absolutely obsessed. Me too, because I, like, it was so, like, to hear a ghost story I hadn't heard before. Oh, God. Was, like, crack to me. Like, it was amazing. I loved it. Loved it, loved it, loved it. So Morgan was gripped by all of this, just like olden times Hannah and Saru would have been.

And she even claimed that she was sure she'd actually seen Slender Man before. I would have said that. I would have said that. I would have said that. Because I am unbearable. And although Anissa said that she had seen him too, she, at least in our opinion, seemed to grasp the line between fiction and reality a lot better than she would later on. Morgan introduced Anissa to Peyton.

But for Anissa, three was a crowd. She quickly grew jealous of Peyton, not wanting to share her newfound friend. She would make mean comments about Peyton and even exclude her from conversations. Peyton wasn't particularly into the creepypasta stuff, which Morgan and Anissa were getting into. So that combined with Anissa being mean caused Peyton to start to distance herself from the pair. As Morgan and Anissa were getting into. So that combined with Anissa being mean caused Peyton to start to distance herself from the pair. As Morgan and Anissa's friendship intensified, so did their obsession with all things Slenderman. They would discuss, draw pictures, and write stories almost on a daily basis about the supernatural tentacled faceless being. Morgan would even write diary entries addressed to Slenderman, who she was now seeing

on a regular basis, in reflections, on street corners, and lurking in the shadows of dark rooms. At around Christmas time, Morgan told Anissa that they should prove Slenderman's existence. For Morgan, Slenderman presented a very real threat. She believed that if she could show him loyalty, he wouldn't harm her or her family. She had read in an online forum that the only way to do so would be to kill someone that she loved. Anissa, perhaps sensing an opportunity, suggested that person should be Peyton. And so the two 12 year olds set about making a plan to sacrifice Peyton to Slenderman. They would kill Peyton acting as Slenderman's proxies and then they would be able to run away to Slenderman. They would kill Peyton acting as Slenderman's proxies

and then they would be able to run away to Slenderman's mansion which they believed was located in the Nicolet Forest about 300 miles away from their homes. Knowing that this plan had to stay strictly between the two of them they devised a code language to discuss the murder in public even in front of Peyton using words like itch for murder and cracker for knife. The girls eventually decided that they would kill Peyton at Morgan's birthday sleepover, which was planned for the 30th of May 2014. This is all just so sinister, isn't it?

The idea of having a secret language. They specifically plan when they're going to... And you'll go on to see, as we talk about, how the level of premeditation that is taking place. But just the fact that Anissa is clearly manipulating Morgan because she can sense Morgan's fears about Slenderman. And she's like, I can get rid of Peyton and I can have this fun adventure.

And maybe she also genuinely believes it all in one fell swoop. It is terrifying. They're 12 years old. Anissa is 12. It's fucking scary. So over the next five months, Morgan and Anissa hung out with Peyton as normal. Peyton even began to feel like Anissa was starting to be nicer towards her, including her in conversations and even making an effort to be her friend. And then the 30th of May came around. And with it, Morgan's birthday party. Morgan's mum had organised for the girls to go roller skating before coming back to theirs for

a sleepover. At the roller rink that night, there are pictures of the girls laughing and smiling, seemingly having a great time. Again, they know what they're going to do to her and the fact that they can spend the day with her acting normal, laughing and smiling and joking and eating pizza and taking pictures. It's like next level. It's unbelievable. Yeah. While they were at the roller rink, Peyton was also a much better skater and would occasionally speed ahead of the other two girls. And when she did, Morgan and Anissa would continue to develop their murderous plot.

It's almost like Anissa is definitely getting off on the fact that they're constantly discussing it, even when Peyton is right there. Because also, why would you need that fake language to like talk about it in front of her there were ample opportunities to talk about it when she wasn't it's a part of the thrill and the power for her yeah again 12 year old girl people so by this point it had been firmly decided that Morgan would stab Peyton while she slept they would then then flee the scene, leaving Peyton dead in Morgan's room. And they would head off to find Slender Man's mansion in the Nicolette National Forest. Again, it's the manipulation there

of telling Morgan that she has to be the one to stab her because she's the one who loves her and it only works if you kill someone you love. So it's like, well, I can't do it because I don't really know her. She's your best friend, you do it. I wonder how... Obviously, one of them is entirely serious. The other one, I don't know whether she. She's your best friend. You do it. I wonder how... Obviously, one of them is entirely serious.

The other one, I don't know whether she thinks it's really going to happen. This is a good point. This is a good point. Eventually, they finished up roller skating and had some food and then left for Morgan's house. Peyton noted that it was odd that Morgan didn't want to stay up all night. It was her birthday after all, but she was insistent on going to bed and would not be convinced otherwise. Morgan set an alarm for 2am on her iPad. to stay up all night. It was her birthday after all, but she was insistent on going to bed and

would not be convinced otherwise. Morgan set an alarm for 2am on her iPad and made sure to plug her headphones in so she wouldn't wake Peyton up when it went off. Fucking out again at the level of planning, the level of planning. And this is Morgan, not Anissa. Fuck, man. Later that night, the alarm sounded and Morgan, seeing the sleeping Peyton, decided against killing her friend at that moment because she, and this is a quote, wanted to at least give her one more morning. That's extremely nice of you. Yeah.

How considerate. And this is the thing, while there is the argument of like Anissa or Morgan, like are they both totally on the same page with knowing it's real? But things like this were setting the alarm, looking at her and deciding this. Is she bottling it and just trying to cover it up later? Or is she genuinely like, hey, maybe let's just do this tomorrow? It's hard to know. We'll discuss that more as we go, but it is hard to know.

The next day, Anissa woke up earlier than the others and realizing that Peyton was still alive, woke Morgan up so they could go and eat breakfast together. Peyton woke up about half an hour later and joined the girls downstairs for strawberries and doughnuts. I'm not a breakfast eater, full stop, but the thought of eating a doughnut for breakfast makes me feel unwell. No, even for me, with a ravenous sweet tooth, I couldn't. Well, this is the thing. I think we usually eat the same sort of dinner stuff, but like you're much more of a sweets person than me. Sweet forward. Sweet

forward. Yeah. Whether I'm just like, just give me an entire salami and I'd happily eat that for the rest of my life. Afterwards, after the donut breakfast, all three girls played dress up together to get their children. and as Peyton was changing into a pink princess dress in the bathroom, Morgan and Anissa snuck away yet again to discuss how they were going to execute the plan that had failed the night before. Anissa suggested that they stabbed Peyton in the public bathrooms in the park. She said that would be better because Peyton's blood would go down the drain. Not good. Definitely really thinking about it. That's what I'm saying.

Like, really have given this a lot of thought. And isn't it horrific, the idea that they play at this park all the time, right, because they're fucking 12 years old, that at one point Anissa has gone into those public toilets to wee, looked at the drain and thought, huh, I'll store that bit of information away for later when I want to murder somebody and their blood can go down the drain. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Jesus. Good point. And then she probably came outside and her mum was like, do you want an ice cream? Fucking hell, I am terrified. So Anissa also told Morgan that they needed to grab a cracker to take with them.

Just in case you're wondering, she's not choosing a derogatory term for a white person. She's saying, go get a knife. And this is Anissa telling Morgan to go and get a knife before they leave the house to go to the park. And so Morgan crept down to the kitchen, picked up a kitchen knife with a five inch blade and shoved it in her coat pocket. Again, the argument of like, how much does Morgan realize that this is true starts to become more and more blurred as the story goes. Because she goes and gets a knife and she hides it in her coat. And she's like, OK, again, does she think it's still a game?

It's hard to know what's going on in her mind. But with the knife now firmly concealed, Morgan went to ask her mom if the three girls could go to the park. Her mom agreed and just told them to be home for lunch. Morgan then hugged her mum, told her that she loved her, and the girls set off. Along the way, Morgan showed Anissa the handle of the kitchen knife that was tucked away in her coat. It was at this point that Anissa claimed that she realised it was really going to happen. Again, it's hard to believe that Anissa could have felt like this was the first time she felt like this was going to happen because she was the one fucking orchestrating the whole thing. Right. And like I, you know, as a child with an enormously overactive imagination, I can kind of put myself in that position.

But then I'm also like split between like, oh, like I kind of believe her saying that she didn't think it was going to happen. But then the other side of me is like, I think you're probably giving her the benefit of the doubt a bit too much at this stage in the game and also if you're like if we were like or one was like maybe you know one or the other doesn't know as much that it's going to happen it's hard to even differentiate who thinks which I don't believe that Anissa didn't think it was going to happen I could believe that Morgan necessarily didn't think it was going to happen. I could believe that Morgan necessarily didn't think it was going to happen. Because I do think that Morgan is the one that is possibly a bit more realistic and Anissa isn't. But again, it's very hard to know.

They're also children. Yeah. And that makes it very hard to understand what exactly is going on with them and how much of it is true. But at the very least, even children with like very, very vivid imaginations, the idea that what they were imagining is something so dark and terrifying is in and of itself very worrying. Yes, I agree. Because while I did have like a very active sort of like fantasy existence

when I was that age, it was never about killing people. This is the thing. Me and my friends used to like have all sorts of weird fantasy games that we used to play and worlds that we lived in, but it was all very, like, positive and it was all very, like, childlike and it was about, like,

fucking fairies and random shit like that. It was actually quite cute now that I think about it. We used to steal my dad's, like, sealant gun. You know, the, like, sealant that you use to, like, put around a bathtub.

Yes, yeah, yeah. And it's just, like, a white paste that comes in a big like squeezy gun. Again, pre-hot glue gun, which is obviously very accessible now. And we used to pick all the gravel off my friend's front drive and make little fairy houses with the sealant gun, like mortar. That's so cute. And it was cute. And it was so cute.

And they were really like nice little houses. And we'd get little thimbles and put stuff in them. And, you know, we were convinced. We were convinced. We definitely weren't like trying to murder each other. Bottom line. Quite. history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its

contractors that led to the disaster. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today. I'm Jake Warren, and in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mom's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery+. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti.

It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me, and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health.

This is season two of Finding, and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. The three girls arrived at the park and for a while, they just hung out messing around on the equipment at the park.

After about half an hour, Anissa turned to both Morgan and Peyton and announced that she needed to go to the bathroom, asking them to come with her. So all three of the girls went into the public bathrooms. Anissa then asked Peyton if she would lie down and go to sleep on the bathroom floor. And that was because she'd read on the Creepypasta wiki that it was, quote, Peyton, who must have been very confused by this request, didn't want to and said as much. I'm not lying down on the floor of a public bathroom, are you joking?

No. And nor is Peyton. She's like, fuck you guys. No. Yeah. You're both being very weird at this sleepover. No, I'm not lying down on the fucking floor of this public toilet. So in their frustration,

Anissa pushed Peyton's head hard against the concrete wall behind her in an attempt to knock her out. Not only because Anissa didn't want to see the eyes of her victim, but also, as she would later go on to say, because I don't like screaming. That's one thing I can't handle. Possibly consider another career choice other than murderer then, if the screaming is not something that you like very much. Fucking hell. But the attempt to knock Peyton out and stop her screaming didn't work. It just left the 12-year-old hurt, but very, very much still conscious.

As Peyton stood there, dazed by the attack, Morgan tried to hand Anissa the knife, but Anissa pulled away, to which Morgan responded, quote, I thought we agreed that you would be the one to do this. But when Anissa still wouldn't take the knife but Anissa pulled away to which Morgan responded quote I thought we agreed that you would be the one to do this but when Anissa still wouldn't take the knife Morgan starts to panic saying I can't do this I'm too scared you have to again it feels like this urgency of like we have to do this one of us has to do this and you have to because I'm more scared no you have to because you love her or whatever it's's that feeling of like, do they really believe

because they feel like they really, really have to do this? It's strange. Meanwhile, of course, Peyton is in tears, still confused and totally unaware of what was going on in the bathroom that she had left to go and sit outside. Anissa got down to Morgan's level to hug her and calm her down, petting her like a cat. When Morgan had calmed down, she and Anissa went outside and found Peyton sat alone on a bench. Oh, you just want to be like Peyton, run home, just run home, Peyton. Yeah, yeah. Anissa approached her and asked her if she'd like to play hide and seek in the woods nearby. Peyton understandably said that she didn't want to, but Morgan convinced

her by promising that the next game that they played could be her choice. Overwhelmed by what was going on, Peyton agreed. So Morgan began counting as Peyton ran into the woods to find a hiding place. Anissa hung back and told Morgan that she would take Peyton as far into the woods as possible before separating from her. And then they would meet up again and, quote, hunt her, as in Peyton, down like lionesses chasing a zebra. So she's not stopping. Like, I think any 11, 12-year-old would have been scared by what happened in the bathroom. And then they could have been like, OK, let's just not do it. But Anissa is like, no, we can't stop now. We have to see this through. She is determined and very, very single-minded about it.

It's terrifying. So with that, Anissa ran to catch up with Peyton, grabbing her by the arm and pulling her deeper into the woods. When they had reached a spot that Anissa felt was remote enough, they stopped, and Anissa told Peyton to lie down and cover herself in leaves to hide, which Peyton agreed to. Once Morgan had finished her countdown, she stalked her friends into the woods. Every step of the way, she could hear Slenderman willing her to go on and kill her best friend. Morgan managed to find Anissa, who led her to where Peyton was hiding. When they were just meters away from

where their unsuspecting victim lay, Morgan handed Anissa the knife and whispered, I can't do it. You know where all the soft spots are. And again, this determination. And again, Anissa, she's not having it. She is going to make Morgan do this because I think, again, for Anissa, it's weirdly about the power. I don't think she would necessarily be bothered about the stabbing side of it. But she hands the knife back to Morgan and says, you do it.

Go ballistic. Go crazy. Morgan replied, I'm not doing it until you tell me to do it. So Anissa turned her back, walked three paces and shouted, now. With that, Morgan pounced on Peyton, pinning her legs down so that she was unable to move. She then drew her face close to Peyton's and whispered in her ear, don't be afraid, I'm only a little kitty cat. I cannot stand that. I'm scared. Me too. I'm like actually scared, more scared than I have been in a lot of other cases that we've covered. Don't be afraid, I'm only a little kitty cat. What the fuck is happening? Oh my God. And then at this point, Morgan pulled the knife from her coat, lifted it above her head and plunged the blade into Peyton's chest.

Fucking hell. I just feel so awful for Peyton. Like she's just a child who went to a fucking sleepover. Yeah. And then after she had stabbed her in the chest, Morgan continued to stab Peyton 19 times. 19 times all over her torso, arms and legs. Peyton cried out in agony, screaming, I trusted you.

Before gasping, I can't see, over and over. Anissa then tried to drag Peyton further into the woods, telling her to lay down and be quiet. As she would lose blood slower that way. What the fuck? I feel feel like is anissa actually like the fucking kid out of orphan where it's actually an old woman maybe maybe jesus oh my god and then she told payton that she and morgan were going to get help which is obviously not fucking true but you're right again how many times when you were kids and like one thing went a little bit too far everybody gets freaked out and everybody runs home? Exactly. They're not doing

that. No, they are not. They're like, we're seeing this through to the end, to the bitter end. Getting help was never the actual plan. Instead, Morgan and Anissa ran. Their only rule at this point being to run forward until you get out of Walkershaw. Because obviously they're running off to the forest to find the mansion. They're going to run 300 miles, probably in sandals. They've probably got flip-flops on. Peyton was left to bleed to death on the ground, unable to see and in unimaginable pain.

But what her attackers failed to realise was that Peyton was a fucking trooper. Fuelled by pure adrenaline, she pulled herself up, stumbled through the woods to an open patch of grass where she could lie down, and all she could think was, I'm not going to die, not today. She's been stabbed 19 times.

That is unbelievable. She's incredible. And in a stroke of sheer luck, that day a cyclist had just so happened to divert from his daily route. And he spotted Peyton lying on the ground at the end of a dirt path covered in blood. And I watched the interview with him that he gave on like the 60 Minutes or ABC 2020 or whatever on this case. And he is like, I never, ever, ever go that way. No one does. There's not really a path that way.

It's just through the fucking woods and he was like for some reason that day I didn't take my usual path that I followed like every day for fucking years of my life and I went through the woods and suddenly he just finds the body of a 12 year old she's been stabbed well not the body because she's alive but a 12 year old who's been stabbed 19 times I don't believe in divine intervention but that's as close as you're going to get to that totally totally real totally. Real, like, ugh, shivers. So when this cyclist found Peyton, she was still responsive, but only just. And she still somehow managed to explain to the man

what had happened. He called 911 immediately and stayed by her side until paramedics and the police showed up at the scene. Within 20 minutes, Peyton was rushed to hospital where she was taken straight into surgery. Peyton's mum had been called and rushed to the hospital. She described that when she arrived, Peyton was covered in blood and had knife punctures all over her body. Her clothes were drenched in blood and her skin was greying.

Things were not looking good for Peyton. My God, I just can't even imagine. No, me either. Your child goes off to a sleepover, and the next day you're in hospital because you've been stabbed 19 times. God. So meanwhile, because Peyton had told them who had done this to her, the police were searching for Morgan and Anissa.

The girls had stopped at a Walmart to pick up some food on their way to Nicolette. And we know from police evidence that the girls both had bloodstains on their clothes. And it does seem kind of odd, because to have stabbed somebody 19 times, you would be fucking covered in blood. And they're like wrestling around with Peyton on the floor, you know, so they would have been covered in blood. Yeah. And it seems kind of weird that nobody at the store seemed to like bat an eyelid at these two 12-year-old girls covered in blood,

probably looking quite disheveled, just wandering around. Like, is that like normal? I don't know. It seems weird. But nobody did notice. Nobody raised the alarm and Morgan and Anissa had managed to continue their journey out of the city. They had walked for about five hours towards the north of the city before police finally found them, sat on the side of the road watching cars go by. Again, can we talk about the determination? Five hours you've walked. Yeah. Like, what the fuck? According to Anissa, the pair had stopped after Morgan started crying, something apparently that she didn't do very often. The pair were then taken in for questioning at the Walkershaw County Police Station. Both of them were very calm and neither seemed particularly affected by the fact that they had just stabbed their friend 19 times just a few short hours before. In fact, the first thing that Anissa asked in her interview was, quote,

How far have I walked today? It's just I'm not particularly athletic so I'd like to know. What? Mate. Fucking fuck. What? The level of like disconnection is honestly it's a lot. Also another piece of quite terrifying evidence to come out of the interview stage was that Morgan was seen dancing around in the interrogation room while waiting for a detective to arrive. And you could say neither maybe understood the severity of what they had done. I don't think it's that they didn't because they were very much like, we need to kill somebody in order to get into Slender Man's mansion. I think they just don't really care.

I think that seems to be the biggest thing. I have literally no idea. It's mad. Imagine if you were the parents and you were shown by the police, your daughter Morgan dancing around in the police station after she's been arrested for stabbing her friend 19 times. Hideous. I'd just be like, you probably keep her. I'm going home. Yeah, right. During the questioning, Anissa kept referring to Slenderman and the creepypasta wiki as stories and fictional things that were designed to scare you

And then she went on to contradict herself by saying that her main drive in wanting to kill Peyton was to prove the sceptics wrong and prove that Slenderman really did exist It's not completely clear whether Anissa really did believe that Slenderman was real or whether it was just a convenient cover for her to kill Peyton, who we know she was incredibly jealous of. She also spends most of her interview laying all the blame on Morgan, which once you know the details of what happened and all that led up to it, it makes Anissa look quite a lot like the big fat liar and manipulator that she is. Yeah. And the other thing with the whole,

like, did she know it's real or did she not? I think it could be both of those things. And when she says, you know, I wanted to prove the skeptics wrong and see what would happen if we kill Peyton, I kind of, I believe her. I think, okay, right. Take something like Bloody Mary. You stand in front of a mirror, you say Bloody Mary three times, and then she appears behind you. Or the elevator game, right? We've talked about that in the Elisa Lam episode. Yes, yeah. Do I want to play the elevator game at night in a scary hotel?

No, I don't want to. Because logically, I know it's not real. But do I want to do that? No, I feel uncomfortable. And I know I'm incredibly logical, but I still don't want to. Would I stand alone in like a creepy house and say Bloody Mary three times in a mirror? Probably not. Do I believe she's real? No. But do I want to? No. That's a really good point. And I feel like Anissa knows that Slender Man

isn't real, logically. But I think she's like, I don't care about human life. I'm fine to kill somebody because to her, let's see what happens. Let's see if Slender Man is real. And I don't care about human life. I'm fine to kill somebody because to her, let's see what happens. Let's see if Slender Man is real. And I don't care if Peyton dies because I don't like her anyway. And it's that kind of like curious psychopathy almost is what I would describe Anissa as. So we know about Anissa, what about Morgan? She was dancing around before being questioned. And we know that she seems far more genuinely convinced of Slender Man's existence.

Her responses during her interview were delivered in a cold, matter-of-fact way. But she's clearly not very with it. Her body movements are erratic and she can't sit still. She periodically stares into corners of the room where nothing can be seen on the camera. And she states at one point, people who trust you become very gullible is sort of sad from a 12 year old oh my god what the fuck she's the psychopath i think oh mate i feel like it's just one of those weird cases of these two girls coming together who are both seriously, seriously troubled

and various diagnoses, various odd things going on, and it's just like a boom that led to this situation happening. Morgan tried to say that Anissa did the stabbing initially but contradicted herself multiple times. Eventually, she did confess to stabbing Peyton. She said, quote, I didn't want to do this. I was afraid of what would happen if I didn't.

So is she talking about Slenderband there, or is she talking about Anissa? We don't know. When asked specifically about the stabbing, she said, It didn't feel like anything. It was like air. Stab, stab, stab, stab.

This is the thing. I feel like Morgan feels to me, and again, we're not diagnosing anybody we don't have all of that data also it's also very difficult to diagnose children we've talked about this on multiple occasions but to me Morgan seems more like mentally ill the way she's dancing around the way she's like stab stab stab and the way she's like I'm just a kitty cat all of this it's more like there's something delusionally wrong. Whereas I think Anissa is just like a really apathetic and like more psychopathic. Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right. By the end

of the interviews, both girls confirmed separately that the idea to kill Peyton was originally Morgan's. And they both confessed that it was all part of a plot to please Slenderman. Meanwhile, back at the hospital, Peyton's mum was still sat outside of the operating room. After countless excruciating hours, the surgeon finally came out to tell her that Peyton had survived. He emphasised how lucky she was by adding that if one of the punctures had just been a width of a hair deeper, it would have severed an artery leading to her heart, causing a severe cardiac arrest and certain death. Peyton's mum could hardly believe it.

Her little girl was going to live. Amazingly, Peyton was discharged from hospital just six days after, in a miraculously fast recovery. The local community, and by this point the world, had rallied around the Lutner family, and $100,000 was raised to cover the medical fees that were incurred from the shocking event. Even members of the Creepypasta community held a 24-hour live stream on YouTube to raise more money for Peyton. An administrator on the Creepypasta wiki website said,

the purpose of the stream was to show that members of the community cared for the victim and did not condone real-world violence just because they enjoyed fiction that contained violence. After a couple of months had passed, Peyton went back to school and was given purple paper hearts, which was her favourite colour, with a message on them from every student. She was also able to go back to the cattery where she and her mum volunteered, which she describes as her happy place. A normality began to return to Peyton's life. Morgan and Anissa's trials began two years later in 2017. Anissa pleaded guilty to being a party to attempted second-degree homicide.

A jury found her not guilty by mental disease or defect. She was sentenced to 25 years to life, with a sentence involving at least three years of confinement and involuntary treatment in a state psychiatric institute, followed by communal supervision until the age of 37. Morgan, on the other hand, had been committed to the Winnebago Mental Health Institute during her trial. She was the youngest patient there. She accepted a plea deal which meant that she would not go to trial

and that she would be evaluated by a psychiatrist to determine for how long she should be placed in a mental hospital. While both girls were involved in the attempted murder, I think there's a pretty marked difference between their mentalities and their motives. It seems like Morgan genuinely believed that she could communicate with Slenderman and that Professor Snape genuinely lived in her bedroom, which definitely are indicators of serious mental illness. Eventually, Morgan did plead guilty, but was, like Anissa, found not guilty due to mental disease or defect and was diagnosed with schizophrenia, a condition that her dad also has. She was sentenced to the maximum, which is 40 years to life,

an indeterminate sentence involving at least three years in confinement, and also she's going to have to go through involuntary treatment at a state psychiatric institute as well, which will either end the complete resolution of her symptoms or when she's 53. Wow. Just, you know, to reiterate this, we have said this on the show before,

but like most people with schizophrenia aren't going around stabbing people. They spend most of their time being afraid. And if they are helped, they can sort of cope within society perfectly well and although what Morgan did was inexcusable it is incredibly sad that she didn't get access to the help she needed until someone got hurt. I think you're right I think it is a very much like a madness of two situation I think if they'd never crossed paths

I think Morgan could have I think she still would have struggled but I don't think anyone would be like stabbed. No and this is the thing it feels very much like Morgan was in a very vulnerable situation and that Anissa came along and was planting the seeds of very dangerous ideas in her head and that's not to say you know if Anissa hadn't come along that Morgan would have been exposed to something else that wouldn't have caused her to do the same thing but it is obviously sad that Morgan didn't get the help that she needed but again 12 years old to start showing those signs is quite early even if her dad had that so maybe they weren't there yet people just hadn't realized yet but I do think absolutely it is definitely like a folio juice situation I think Anissa

absolutely also has a variety of issues going on as well. But yeah, it's fucking scary. Scary fucking shit. So recently, at a court hearing on the 10th of March 2021, so very recently indeed, Anissa, who is now 19 years old, submitted a letter to the court stating that she was, quote, sorry and deeply regretful for the agony, pain and fear that she's caused, not just to Peyton, but to her community as well. Anissa stated, I hate my actions on May 31st, 2014, but through countless hours of therapy, I no longer hate myself for them. I mean, obviously, we believe in rehabilitation here,

and we haven't been able to find the specifics of Anissa's psychiatric evaluations, possibly because she was a minor when that happened. Is she really remorseful? I don't know. I don't know. So the judge set a court date for summer 2021 to consider her request and we'll update you on the outcome of that in our new segment in the news as soon as we know more. So we'll have to wait and see. Yeah, we'll keep an eye on it and we will let you know as and when we hear of any developments. So there you go.

We've been thinking about doing that one for a while and we finally have so you're very welcome if you've got a spare moment. Please follow us on all of the social medias at Red Handed The Pod and who knows, by the time you're listening to this

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