RedHanded - Episode 241 - Mel Ignatow: Karma's Glass Table

Episode Date: April 14, 2022

When pulling up the carpets in your new dream home, you'll probably be hoping to find beautiful shiny hardwood floors. What you won't be hoping to find, however, is the former homeowner's secret stash spot of camera rolls.  Especially when the said former homeowner was a sexual sadist who'd just been acquitted of murdering his girlfriend.  As for what was on those camera rolls... well, you'll just have to press play to find out... Become a patron: Patreon Order a copy of the book here (US & Canada): Order on Wellesley Books Order on Amazon.com Order a copy of the book here (UK, Ireland, Europe, NZ, Aus): Order on Amazon.co.uk Order on Foyles Follow us on social media: Instagram Twitter Visit our website: Website Contact us: Contact See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Saruti.

I'm Hannah. And welcome to Red Handed. It's not a special Red Handed. Actually, it's just the most run-of-the-mill. It is. We've got no news. No. Nothing to ask for. Nothing to say. Just a normal, a normal day at the office. Absolutely. Just a horrible, horrible murder to tell you about. Everyone ready? Sick. In October 1992, a young couple who had just bought their dream home in Louisville, Kentucky, were redecorating. Do you know my favourite thing about Louisville?

Is it that I shouldn't say Louisville, which is what I want to say? Well, I hadn't considered that. But in an English accent, British accent, Louisville is all quite separated phonetically, right? Louisville. When Americans say it... Louisville. Louisville. Louisville.

Like, it's all just one long syllable. It's fantastic. Our very, very good friend, Tracy Clayton, friend of the show, deep, passionate soul buddy, is from Lowell. And that's what she says. Excellent. And I have said that to her face, so no one get mad. Well, good. I'm glad we've covered the full spectrum of ways we could pronounce it.

I've said Louisville. You've said blah, blah, blah. And then we're also going to say Louisville, which is what I'm going to try to say for the rest of this episode. So this couple, when they bought this house, they felt like the whole thing was just a bit garish for their taste. And the first thing they wanted out was that bloody carpet. And I don't blame them.

I don't blame them. Carpet was the first thing I put in. Well, I mean, a nice carpet. Yes. I'm not a fan of a carpet. I'd rather have cold feet. Yeah. The thing is about carpet, why I was convinced to put carpet in is that it's just a bit more snuggly for your feet and I'm not a slippers person. They make me feel quite ill. So, so I don't mind having a carpet because I don't like having cold feet fair I love nothing better than a good hard surface a wipe down hard surface and um don't like fabrics don't like too many cushions don't like upholstered walls don't like who's got an

upholstered wall well I'm saying this because last night I was watching what's that show on ppc with alan carr and lawrence luellen bowen interior design master yeah yeah right yeah like america's because last night I was watching, what's that show on PPC with Alan Carr and Lawrence Llewellyn Bowen? Interior Design Master. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. Like America's Next Top Model, but designers. Yeah, exactly. And this guy was like upholstering the wall of a fucking shepherd hut. And I was like, oh, my God, that makes me feel so unwell. I wouldn't want to stay in that room because I would feel like it's dusty. That's what I think of when I think of carpet and fabric. I think dusty. Anyway, anyway whatever so these people are like get this fucking carpet out of my sight I can't stand it but as this couple were pulling

up this carpet they spotted something unusual there was an air vent in the floor which had been completely covered by said ugly carpet so they popped the vent open, and inside, they found a plastic sandwich bag containing three rolls of film, a ring, a bracelet, and a necklace. And I think this would be a slightly sinister find in any house. Like, when I bought my crack den house, if I had popped open a vent and found a plastic bag with those things in, I'd be slightly scared. Instead, you've just got a secret basement with stuff in that you don't know what it is. There is that, but we just don't think about that. No. When we hear the noises, we don't think about that.

And actually yesterday, I was like, I'm going to clean the kitchen floor. And I had to go into the top bit, like the landing of the basement. So before you head down the stairs to grab the mop and bucket. And I was like fiddling about trying to get it out for a while because the way the door's angled. And then I just had this horrible thought that someone was going to grab the mop and bucket. And I was like fiddling about trying to get it out for a while because the way the door's angled. And then I just had this horrible thought that someone was going to grab me and I turned down and look and it was just black. And my mum, for some genius reason, while I was on holiday,

went to my house and painted the wooden stairs of the basement black. Oh, super. So now you can't see them when the lights are off them so it just looks like a black abyss so yeah that is quite scary but my favorite is my friends bought a house in ely and they were just like ripping off some wallpaper as you do another thing i don't like unless it's nice wallpaper ripping it off this old tatty wallpaper and found found a bit of the wall just fell off. So they just like had a little dig around to see what was going on. There was just Lego jammed in there.

Like someone had just made bricks out of Lego, like smaller bricks of Lego, and just mortared it into the wall. Wow. You love a thrifty fix. I mean, I do love a thrifty fix. That's your ideal building material, Lego. But Lego's not very cheap. It depends how long you've had it. I think, was it Lego or was it Duplo?

I think it was Lego. It was Lego. It wasn't Duplo. Duplo would make more sense. Probably more cost-effective. The cinder block of the construction kit world. I didn't find anything creepy, but they did leave a whole load of shit. Like, I'm talking like bathroom cupboards completely full of like product because they moved to canada right so like i can't get them

for anything they also said they will have the whole thing industrially cleaned fucking didn't i did it sneaky pig people hate them and anyway moving on anyway so this couple find this little baggie of goods in the floor of their house. And like we said, scary in any situation. But the horrified couple who found this stuff, this stash, knew exactly what their discovery was, because they knew who had owned the house before them. So they immediately called the police. And when the detectives arrived, they took one look at the bag

and went straight to arrest the house's previous owner, Mr Mel Ignato. And they didn't even need to develop the films to know what they would find on there and that it was the slam dunk evidence they needed on the man now sat in their cells. The only problem was that the hundreds of photos they got off those film rolls showing a man sexually torturing a young woman tied to a coffee table had all come far too late. To understand why, let's go back to the beginning. Mel Ignato was a well-to-do businessy businessman and he worked for a rapidly growing import-export company which when anyone tells me they work in an import-export company I was like you're a drug dealer like there why would you not just that's such a ridiculous thing to say. But he was not a drug

dealer, he was an actual import-export man, and he worked as a buyer all over the world. He was earning $80,000 a year back in the 80s, which nowadays is closer to a salary of $280,000 a year. And fittingly for his high roller jet set lifestyle, Mel had a fuck-off house complete with pink bathroom suites, how 80s of him, and even a giant yacht, which he, in his infinite wisdom,

named the Motion Lotion. I don't understand the name of that boat. Motion in the Ocean? Motion Ocean in the Lotion. What? Well, yeah, it's the motion of the ocean and the sun in the sky, famously, of Hairspray. But the motion lotion, I don't know. Anything to do with lotion just makes me think of wanking. I just can't.

It's his wank yacht. It's his wank yacht. Surely every yacht is a wank yacht. Show me a yacht that no one's had a wank on and doesn't exist. At 48, Supreme Wanker Mel was divorced with three grown-up children. And he was looking to date again. Enter Joyce Basham, Mel's friend's girlfriend. And Joyce just so happened to know the woman that would be perfect for Mel.

It was her best friend, Brenda Sue Schaefer. Brenda was 34, so quite a bit younger than Mel. But Brenda had always had a tough time in the world of romance, tell me about it, Brenda. And Joyce figured that she just needed a stable older man. In high school, Brenda had met her first love, Pete Van Pelt. The childhood sweethearts got married as soon as they graduated in 1971, but soon after their marriage broke down. Pete was very young and he was very irresponsible with money and the two of them just couldn't cope with the stress of

constantly being broke. Apparently, and this will come as no surprise to anybody, especially anybody who's married, apparently the number one cause of divorce is financial issues. Oh, I believe it. Yeah. So that's pretty much what did it for Brenda and Pete Van Pelt, whose name I just enjoy saying. But when Brenda confided in her family that she wanted a divorce, her extremely German Catholic parents were not too pleased, especially her dad.

But eventually Brenda and Pete divorced in 1976, and Brenda's mum, Essie, persuaded her dad. But eventually Brenda and Pete divorced in 1976 and Brenda's mum Essie persuaded her dad John to let Brenda come home. Essie and Brenda were super close. Brenda was the baby of the family, she was the youngest of six and she had actually also come along after Essie had had a particularly traumatic pregnancy which had ended in a stillbirth. A few years after she split from Pete, Brenda had met a dentist named Jim Rush. Jim loved Brenda and he treated her really well.

They spent eight years together, but it wasn't all smooth sailing. Jim had a daughter who absolutely hated Brenda and had no problem with Brenda knowing about it. Jim also drank a bit too much for Brenda's liking. Did you know that dentists are the number one suicide profession? Mm-hmm, I did know that. Yeah, doctors are second. No, I'm lying.

It's vets. Ah. It's vets, doctors, then dentists. Makes sense. So just that, just there was no point in saying that at all. I mean, if i had to stare into people's mouths all day i'd not be happy either would you rather be a dentist or a chiropodist chiropodist is that foot person oh probably foot person at least it's not breath

breath is tough it's a tough one for me but feet people don't make that much money. Dentists make bank. That's true. I'll come back to you. Okay. For my imaginary ultimatum. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near L.A. in 1983, there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Lainey Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite.

Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I'm Jake Warren and in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery Plus. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media

post by a person named Loti. It read in part, three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. So on top of the daughter that hates Brenda, the drinking that Brenda doesn't like,

they also had some intimacy issues as well because Brenda found sex incredibly painful and they found it very difficult to work through this together. After Brenda and Jim called it quits, she decided to take up her best friend Joyce's offer of a double date with this Mel Ignato character. And so in September 1986, the two couples went on a double date on Mel's yacht. Five months later, Brenda and Mel were engaged. And that sounds quick because it is. And some people will describe this as a whirlwind romance, but to us, it looks quite a lot like an enormous love-bombing campaign. And we say that because Mel would shower Brenda with extravagant gifts

like huge bouquets of flowers, fur coats and jewellery. Her engagement ring was worth a staggering $20,000 in the 80s, may we remind you. I mean, fucking hell. I can't even imagine the ring you can buy with $20,000 today, let alone in the 80s. Oh, I can. I mean, no, I'm just, I'm very ignorant to these things. That is shocking to me. But aside from Brenda, who at least first, seemed blind to his arrogance,

nobody liked Mel. Her family found him domineering and her friends found him creepy, who would always insist on having all of their dates and get-togethers on his boat. But bizarrely, no one was allowed to eat on board. Mel couldn't stand even the idea of mess. I think when you get to like 45, you're going to be like, we can only eat in this very small corner of the kitchen.

Is that the collective you or is that the you at me? No, you. Sruti Bala, yeah. Just checking, just checking. Everything covered in plastic. Mate, it's the Indian way. It's the Asian way. Stick plastic on everything. It's fine. And mate it's the indian way it's the asian way stick plastic on everything it's fine and then it's safe and then we can just keep going with our lives no i i mean why don't we all just eat all of our food standing over a sink i think that's fine

that's acceptable or just standing over the dishwasher or the bin or the bin or outside actually let's just always do our fresco. And maybe that's the way forward. You'll get there, I think. It's just the most upsetting thing to me. It was upsetting for Mel as well. And he had more upsetting habits. Mel would also carry pictures of Brenda in a bikini around with him to show to his co-workers.

But that's only the beginning. Things are about to get a lot weirder. But before that, after the the proposal as whirlwindy as lovebomby as it was things did cool down a little bit because brenda's life got a whole lot more hectic brenda already worked full-time as a nursing assistant but then her mum essie who had lupus and a heart condition took a turn for the worse and needed full-time care. So, Brenda moved home to take care of her. This meant that Brenda and Mel were now only seeing each other at weekends. And at first, Mel was fine with this. But then, in December 1987, he lost his job. And it was at

this point that Mel's behaviour started to set off alarm bells for Brenda. Doesn't strike me as the type of man that would take redundancy particularly well. No, and it happens in quite like a cutthroat way. He's basically pushed out of the business. Ah. And he was quite involved in it. He was very senior there. He did not like, I mean, no one would like that.

But I think for Mel Ignato, his job, his lifestyle, his way he presents himself, the moneyed nature of everything is very, very important to him. Unsurprisingly. So when all that goes away, his behavior does very much fall off a cliff. And Mel became incredibly controlling towards Brenda. He'd even create like a fucking spreadsheet schedule of when he was going to call her when he went away looking for business. And this wasn't like to be, I don't know, there's no way explaining that. That's just a fucking weird thing to do. And since it was the 80s and Brenda didn't have a mobile for him to

kind of secretly call stalk her on, Mel would often call her workplace. I mean, I can't even imagine that. It's so like jarring to the modern ear, isn't it? This idea that your like crazy fucking boyfriend would just call your workplace repeatedly. Oh, my mom used to do that. And it gets worse because if Brenda didn't answer the phone in her workplace where she isn't a receptionist, FYI, then Mel would be aggressive with her co-workers and even her boss. And Brenda's boss, Dr. William Spaulding, and the other nurses at the practice absolutely fucking hated him. Fucking understandably.

Mel also started to monopolise all of Brenda's free time, and he started to grow more and more sexually aggressive toward her. Mel started to impose all of his sexual fantasies on Brenda. He demanded that he be allowed to tie her up and even when she cried that it hurt too much he would just carry on. And that would be nightmarish for anyone but any kind of penetrative sex for Brenda was incredibly painful let alone forcible. Mel actually spent a few months in Florida on a job in 1987. And we suspect that during that time, Brenda actually underwent a full hysterectomy, which is no joke. No, because she's only probably about 35 at this point.

And we say suspect because Brenda never told a soul. It was only discovered that she had years later. But nobody, and I mean nobody, has a full hysterectomy at the age of 34 or 35 unless they are in intolerable amounts of pain. Yeah, I feel like that's a last resort for somebody. And I think we don't know what Brenda's challenge was. I'm guessing it wasn't something like vaginismus because she's having the hysterectomy.

I mean, it could have been a combination, but it's most likely maybe something like endometriosis, for example, or there are obviously lots of conditions that cause painful sex, like fibroids, etc., but we don't know because Brenda, even though she was so close to her mum, Essie, and she told her everything, she didn't tell anybody about this. So she was in an enormous amount of pain. We don't really know why, but we do know that Mel didn't give a single shit. He would often pressure Brenda into having group sex and he was obsessed

with anal. And then he started to blame Brenda for his problems at work. And he began demanding all of her financial details, saying that he was worried her insurance at home wouldn't cover the jewellery that he was buying her. It's the classic, it's the classic ramping up of abusive behaviour. It starts with the love bombing and then it trickles into the monopolising of all of her time. It's the aggression when she's not there at hand whenever he wants to reach out to her and then you're leading into the kind of economic abuse where he wants to know everything about every penny she has yeah and it's veiled thinly in this oh it's just because i don't want something bad

to happen and mel also constantly berated brenda for being too. He wanted her to smoke weed and watch porn with him and take what he called sex tablets. Like I know it gets so much worse but I already despise this man. It's gonna get so bad. But yeah these sex tablets in the book that we read on this case it's by a gentleman named Bob Hill and it is pretty much the only source of information out read on this case. It's by a gentleman named Bob Hill and it is pretty much the only source of information out there on this entire case. It's called Double Jeopardy. If you want to get your hands on it,

you're going to have to go fucking like secondhand book shopping because I think I got it for like £3.99 from Thrifty Books or something. But very, very useful resource. Bob's done a great job because there is literally no information anywhere. Great job, Bob. Well done. That's done a great job because there is literally no

information anywhere great job bob well done that's what they call him that that is what they call him that's what we call him over here at red handed so these sex tablets if you're wondering what they are well in the book they're described as giant clear tablets and we don't get much more information than that but most likely they were incredibly hardcore tranquilizers because once brenda woke up naked after a dose of mel's sex tablets with absolutely no memory of what had happened to her i mean what a fucking terrifying prospect and the thing with mel is you have to remember that he has a lot of contacts abroad. He spends a lot of his time outside the United States.

And I know drugs in the United States, like the pharmaceuticals, are incredibly hardcore. But, like, you literally don't know what they are or where he got them from or what he's doing. Like, it could be anything. And after this incident, absolutely understandably, Brenda flat- out refused to take any more of these fucking sex tablets. But Mel told her, quote, I can get this pill

in you somehow if I want to. At first, Mel had managed to talk his way out of everything with Brenda. He was a salesman and he, of course, had the gift of the gab. Those two things tend to go hand in hand. If you can't chat, you won't sell shit. But as I've said before, the casts of The Apprentice keep getting worse and worse. I can't believe you've sold anything in your life. Shocking, truly. I know.

I mean, but I don't think that they are beacons of enterprise. No. But speaking of beacons of enterprise, I did listen to Deborah Meaden's Desert Island Discs the other day. Fascinating. Highly recommend. Love that woman. Love a bit of Meaden. Maybe we watched it together. But there was one Dragon's Den where someone's pitching and he was like, oh, and Deb, she was like, did you just call me Deb? There's an even better one that's like a classic where the guy calls her Debbie. And she's like, did you just call me Debbie and he's like sorry it slipped out

I'm so nervous Debbie Meaden she's no Debbie so he has the gift of the gap we know that just like Deborah Meaden and not very many people on The Apprentice or Dragon's Den but as his behavior escalated Brenda started to get really worried she started to tell other people in her life about what Mel was doing to her, so she's starting to not buy his bullshit, essentially. Everyone from her friends, her co-workers, her brother's girlfriends, and even her beautician, who's called Nina Stamps, who works at Elegant Lady Electrolysis.

I just couldn't leave that out. Elegant Lady. Elegant Lady Electrolysis. What a place. How 80s. Well, the only place I will get waxed near my house is called Diva Angels. Diva Angels. Solid.

Solid. And very quick. So at this stage in the game, it seems reasonably obvious that Brenda was at least attempting to reach out for help. But also maybe she was trying to assess other people's reactions to what was happening to her. Perhaps it was a way to figure out if what was happening to her at the hands of her husband boyfriend was appropriate, acceptable or not. And I think that's quite common when you spend a lot of time with a person who is not very well, has a personality disorder, whatever, whatever, whatever, because they are clearly feeling these incredibly intense feelings. It gets quite easy to get lost in it. Absolutely. And I think for abusive partners, their whole point is to try and normalise their

behaviour with you. So I can absolutely understand Brenda wanting to kind of litmus test it by telling people what's happening. And often also, she was the baby of the family and they often described her as being very naive and I think she was possibly quite young for her age and I think also this was the 80s people weren't having the conversations we're having about domestic abuse today back then so I think it was a very very different context that she was operating in and Brenda even told her brother Tom's girlfriend, Love, about a weekend trip that she and Mel had taken to the Great Smoky Mountains. One night during this holiday, Brenda had been woken up by Mel holding a rag over her face. Her throat and nose were tingling,

and it turned out that the rag was soaked in chloroform. And when Brenda confronted Mel, he just said, quote, you've been too keyed up lately. You need something to help you relax, to put you to sleep. Thing was, Brenda was already asleep. Yeah, you woke her up. With a fucking rag over her face. And the other thing is, it doesn't matter if she was fucking asleep. It was chloroform.

What the fuck does it matter? Yeah matter it's not like essence of lavender no oh i was just trying to soothe you to sleep with this essential oils kit that i've just discovered he's trying to fucking chloroform her while she's asleep and when brenda told love about this love of course like, you need to get the fuck out of this. And Brenda agreed. But she thought that she couldn't just end things abruptly. No doubt she was scared of what Mel's reaction would be. And as we know, when a woman is trying to leave an abusive relationship, that's when she is in the most danger. But with things deteriorating between the pair, Brenda found herself back in touch with her ex, Mr Dentist Jim Rush.

And on the 21st of September 1987, Brenda finally called Rush and told him that she'd broken up with Mel, but that she was going to have to see him that weekend to return his stuff. Essie and the entire Schaefer family were happy about Brenda's decision, but her mum told her, have him come here. He won't kick up a fuss here in front of your brothers but Brenda just said it would be fine she was just going to go and give him back his stuff all of the jewelry he bought her etc etc etc and then it would be over and I can kind of understand that mentality of like no I'm a big girl mum I'm just going gonna go finish it on my

terms and then we're done here and I also think Brenda knows with somebody like Mel that it's not gonna be chill she obviously doesn't anticipate what is gonna happen but she knows it's not gonna be chill and I'm sure there's also an element of like I don't want to humiliate myself yes mum you think he's not gonna cause a fuss here but he will and it will be humiliating, and I don't know what words are going to come out of his mouth. And quite frankly, I don't want my family house tainted by that man. I'm going to go do it at his place, get rid of his shit, and then I'm going to go get back together with Jim. And so, on the 23rd of September 1988, almost two years to the day that they had met, Brenda headed to Mel's house to end things for good. Back home, her dad, John, stayed up all night waiting for her to come home.

When it got to 3am and there was still no sign of Brenda, Essie called Mel. He told her that Brenda had left his at 11.30pm and that that was the last that he had heard from her. Mel then called Essie back, 30 minutes later, to ask if Brenda had come home yet. And Essie told him, yes, she had, even though Brenda wasn't actually home. And this is an interesting little point in the story, because between the 30 minutes that had elapsed,

it had occurred to Essie that perhaps after ending things with Mel, maybe her daughter had gone straight to Jim Rush's house. And if that was so, she didn't want to drop Brenda in it with Mel. So she lied. But Essie soon discovered that Brenda wasn't with Jim either. So at 4am, John Schaefer called the police.

And 15 minutes later, completely independently, Mel Ignato also called the police to report Brenda missing, even though her mum Essie had told him that she was at home. Essie would later recall that on that phone call when she had told Mel that Brenda was home, he had sounded surprised and asked, really? So two hours after the 911 calls were placed, Brenda's car was found along the westbound lane of the I-64. It had a flat tyre, courtesy of a nail. A window was broken, the car radio was gone, there was blood on the back seat as well as outside the car, and someone had tried to pry the boot open. Boot, trunk, trunk, boot. So was it an abduction? Or was it just a flat tyre that had meant that Brenda had left the car unattended and that

someone had vandalised it after she'd gone? The I-64 was the road that Brenda would have taken if she had been driving from Mel's house back to her parents' house. So this spot was close to home. If she had just broken down, she very, very easily could have walked to her parents' house and she would have been back before the alarm was raised. Especially if she'd left at 11.30 like Mel said. Yeah. The car engine was also cold, so that means that it had been on the side of the road for quite some time.

And if it was an abduction, that meant that Brenda would have had the keys to her own car that she's just driving. So why would someone have tried and then failed to pry the boot open? They would have just opened it with the key. Yeah, they would have just taken the keys off her and opened the boot. There's no need to try and pry things open. And I think it all just feels quite contradictory because the car's been there for a long time, so that kind of fits with Mel's story that she left at 11.30,

but it's so close to her house. If she hasn't been abducted, where the hell is she? She could have just walked home. So it's a very confusing scene. Also, when the nail in the tyre was more closely inspected that's happened to me and it's such a fucker like and you can feel when a wheel's gone you're like oh my god this is gonna be such a pain in the ass got out of my car first thing i see just screw just right in my tire infuriating but when they had a look at this nail in the tyre of Brenda's car, authorities realised that it had no friction marks on it.

Because when a nail gets embedded in a tyre and that tyre goes round and round in the wheelie fashion that they usually do, scratching into hard tarmac, there's going to be some war wounds to show for it. But not this one. This nail looked like it had just been put into the tyre when the car was standing still. So the scene was starting to look just a little bit staged. And still, there was no sign whatsoever, nowhere, no how of Brenda. Immediately, Brenda's family were

incredibly suspicious of Mel. He even, and this bit just really fucking pissed me off, because he turned up at their house, at Brenda's family house, weeping and wailing, saying things like he just knew that Brenda was dead. And this was incredibly bizarre because it had only been a few hours since she'd vanished. And they actually had to tell him to shut the fuck up like Brenda's brothers because obviously him coming around there crying like that is upsetting their mum who was already incredibly sick and when they saw this Brenda's brother Tom and his girlfriend Love who had obviously heard all about the chloroform rag story decided to call the police and tell them everything they knew about Brenda and Mel's incredibly toxic relationship

and the fact that Brenda had gone over that day to specifically break up with him. He was hip-hop's biggest mogul, the man who redefined fame, fortune, and the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Sean Diddy Combs. Diddy built an empire and lived a life most people only dream about. Everybody know ain't no party like a Diddy party, so. Yeah, that's what's up. But just as quickly as his empire rose, it came crashing down. Today I'm announcing the unsealing of a three-count indictment,

charging Sean Combs with racketeering conspiracy, sex trafficking, interstate transportation for prostitution. I was f***ed up. I hit rock bottom. But I made no excuses. I'm disgusted. I'm so sorry. Until you're wearing an orange jumpsuit, it's not real. Now it's real. From his meteoric rise to his shocking fall from grace, from law and crime, this is the rise and fall of Diddy.

Listen to the rise and fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery Plus. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall, that was no protection. Claudine Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime and there's much more to come. This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On The Media. To listen, subscribe to On The Media wherever you get your podcasts. So when the police questioned him, Mel claimed that he had been having some car issues. And the day that Brenda had come over, they had just gone out for a nice drive in her car.

And this bit is immediately questionable because Brenda and him are supposed to have hung out on that Saturday. And he says he has car troubles and that's why they used her car. The Sunday morning, he drives over to her parents' house in his car. So at what point did he get his car troubles magically fixed? And who's going on a breakup drive? Well, this is the thing. Because Mel said to the police and to Brenda's family, I have no idea why everyone keeps saying that Brenda came over to break up with me. She didn't break up with me. We had a very nice day out. We went out, we went for a drive, we had some lunch, we had some drinks, we were going to go to an art fair, but it was raining. And then she just dropped me at my mum's house at 11.30 and that was the last

I saw of her. And then she said she was going home. We didn't break up. Everything was fine when she left. Sure. Okay. And so after 11.30, when he says that Brenda dropped him at his mom's house, he says that at around midnight, he had tottled off to the Skyline Cafe for a bowl of chili. No. Who's having moonlight chili? But like, it's different if you're ordering it to your house. Physically going outside for midnight chili. Because he needs an alibi.

Maybe this is another American cultural nuance that is completely lost on me. Maybe people in Kentucky are going out for moonlight chili and I just can't even conceive of a world in which I would do that. I don't want midnight chili. Thanks very much. But apparently he did. And it's very confusing whether he actually did or not because there are some people who worked at the Skyline Cafe who said they saw Mel there at midnight, and some people who said they didn't.

I don't know. Always keep your receipts. And according to Mel, the first he heard that anything was wrong was when Essie had called him at 3.30 in the morning. Mel told police that they needed to look at Brenda's exes, who are her high school sweetheart Pete and Jim, the dentist man. During his police interviews, Mel also asked the police a lot of questions. He clearly wanted to know what they knew, but he tried to play it off as concern for Brenda, which is his absolute MO. He does this thing where he constantly sort of like talks over the police and tries to monopolize the interview by asking them lots of questions.

And it's this faux concern that's so like grating. And it's so obvious, but he thinks he's doing a great job. It's very Chris Watts. Oh, yes, yes. And the other thing that Mel Ignato does in the police interviews is he immediately starts calling the police officers by their first names, like he knows them, which is like such a salesman technique.

Oh, yeah. It's like he's read that in a sales book and it's like... Yeah, he's read that in The Art of War. Say their name again and again and again and it's like that's the way that you can manipulate them into liking you. Mimic their gestures. Take a sip when they take a sip.

Make them trust you. That's the thing. I think Melignato was clearly good at his job but i think when you break it down to a level where you're really observing him he's so like practiced he's so rehearsed that it becomes very obvious and the police fucking hate him from the beginning and they hate him which means they weren't buying any of his shit right from the off. And soon any hope that Brenda was maybe just taking a little self-care time out on her own, of her own accord, crashed and burned.

On Monday morning, she didn't turn up for work. Brenda was described by her boss, who was called Dr Spalding, as the best nursing assistant he had ever had. It was very unlike her to just not show up. The more people in Brenda's life that the police spoke to, the clearer an image of an abuser began to develop in their minds. Eventually, Brenda's best friend, Joyce, pointed them in the direction of a woman named Mary Ann Shaw. Apparently, she had suspected that Shaw and Mel had been hooking up

behind Brenda's back. Mary Ann Shaw is going to play a significant part in the rest of our story and she's an interesting character. She basically came into Mel Ignato's life when she started working as a babysitter for his kids in 1974. I believe before that he met her because she was actually a receptionist at his company. They've known each other a long time and apparently Mel's kids absolutely did not like her one bit. But Mel did. Because the two dated on and off for the next ten years and carried on sleeping together long after. The police thought it was odd that when they interviewed Mary Ann Shaw,

she said that Mel was great. He was a stand-up guy. She fucking loved him. It was weird to them because everyone else they had met, everyone else they had interviewed, had nothing good to say about Mel. But here she was, saying that he was the absolute best. It seemed suspicious. Hmm. Hmm. Especially since it wasn't just Brenda's friends and family. But here she was, saying that he was the absolute best. It seemed suspicious.

Especially since it wasn't just Brenda's friends and family. The police tracked down Mel's ex-wife, Sharon Kippen, and she gave them a 12-page report on her ex. That's something that I think all of us wish we could do at least once. I feel like Sharon Kippen already had it typewriten up. Yes, I think so. I think one of the trauma response things I do is firstly I write their name on a piece of paper and then I freeze it, freeze it in the freezer, freeze them out of your life. And then you write them a letter and you don't send it.

That's a good one. So I feel like maybe that was her letter. Maybe she had to defrost it out the freezer to give it to the police. And Sharon Kippen, in this defrosted letter, explained in detail how Mel had used sex as a weapon. And when she did something he didn't like, even something as fucking minor as leaving the tap on too long, he'd demand anal sex as a punishment.

Sharon said he'd also bought her a two-carat diamond ring, just like the one he'd given Brenda. And Sharon said that she cherished it, and after they divorced, he didn't even ask for it back. Then one day, she dropped it, and it cracked. Now, dear listeners, you don't need me to tell you that obviously diamonds, being the hardest substance on planet Earth, do not crack when you drop them on the floor. So Sharon took it to a jeweller who revealed that it was paste. Oh my God.

I know. And he's rich. He's not just like, he's not like pretending and like buying, you know, knockoff jewellery to make his wife feel better. He's rich. He's just like, fuck it. Yeah, she's not going to know any better. My birthstone is an opal, and opals are unlucky because they shrink in their settings and they fall out.

I'm also an opal. I know. Yes. Because I know when your birthday is. So I used to buy vintage opal rings, and then inevitably the opal would always fall out and I would just stuff it with tinfoil, because you can't tell the difference.

But I was working at a restaurant and my manager wanted to buy his girlfriend an opal ring and he got this opal ring off it so he brings it in I was like James that's plastic I promise you I promise you I've seen a lot of opals and that is not an opal my friend and he didn't believe me and he took it to the jewel around the corner and they just laughed him out the shop oh my god so right so diamonds you can chuck them on the floor if it doesn't crack maybe it's a diamond pearls you can rub them on your teeth and if they feel gritty. That means they're real, yeah?

If they're smooth, they're fake. Uh-huh. Opals, is it plastic? Even if it isn't plastic, it's going to shrink and fall out of its fucking setting anyway, so don't bother. Oh, there you go. Also famously unlucky, aren't they? Yeah, because they shrink and fall out.

Oh, I thought it was like some, I don't know. I think it's mutually exclusive that they're unlucky because they fall out and they fall out because they're unlucky. Got it. Pearl is June. June is pearls. Oh, okay. Good to know. It's very good when you're stuck for a birthday present. Just look up what their birthstone is and if it's not outrageous, get them one of those fellas.

And extra points if you can just pick it up at Oliver Boneless on your way to go fucking meet her at the train station. Instagram recommended me a dress and I said, oh, that's nice. Clicked on it, saw it was all of a bonus. I was like, absolutely not. So just like the fake ring he had bought for Sharon, Mel's life was also looking to be a bit of a facade, a facade made out of anger, sexual abuse, control and deceit. But with no body and no other hard evidence,

the police needed more to nail him down. So they got Brenda's brother Tom to wear a wire. But after five meetings with Mel, saying nothing incriminating, they gave up. And the final straw came for Tom when during one meeting, Mel had pulled out a sheet of paper with 42 items listed plus their value and he said to Tom, Brenda's brother, anything I gave her she said she wanted to come back to me. When did she say that? When would she have said that? So she's just hanging out at his house according to him. They're totally happy together. She's like in the event that I one day die or disappear before you all the stuff you gave me make sure you get it from my grieving family and they give it back to you because i really want it to come back to you and to really

hammer at home mel added that if these items weren't found amongst brenda's effects then funds from the insurance for those items were just as good. Brenda hasn't even been gone a week when he's having this conversation. Yep, with her brother. It's fucking crazy town. Five months passed and there were no new breakthroughs.

The police were getting pretty desperate and they weren't the only ones. Cast your mind back to a few minutes ago when we told you about Brenda's boss, Dr Spaulding. Well, he really liked Brenda. He liked her a lot. As we said, he thought she was the best nursing assistant that he'd ever had, and he had a lot of affection for her. But a doctor he may be, smart, probably not, because in a misguided attempt to help Brenda, he sent Mel a threatening letter, stating that a group of Cuban assassins were going to hunt him down and kill him if he, being Mel, did not reveal the location of Brenda's body. Doctor of what?

I think he's a dentist. Still, you would hope that someone who's pulling actual bones out of your face would have a little bit more common sense i think that with dr spaulding he's quite an older man and i think he's not in the best oh i see mental health of his life towards this point and he genuinely thinks that he's helping because mel actually took this letter straight to the police. And the police knew exactly who had sent it immediately, even though the postmark said Miami, because Dr. Spalding had actually sent the letter to a friend of his in Florida and then had them post it. So the postmark would even say that it had come from Miami.

So there was some preparation. He didn't think about it. Yeah, he absolutely did. He thought about it a long time because the reason the police knew it was him immediately was because Dr. Spalding had actually already floated the idea of sending this threatening letter with the police before. Is it bad I'm finding this quite adorable and charming? I find him very adorable.

I find him very adorable. He didn't actually do it. He didn't actually hire any Cuban assassins. He's just doing it to scare Mel in the most like ham-fisted, adorable old man kind of way. And the police obviously had told Dr Spaulding not to send the letter, but obviously he had thought that it was still worth a shot. Well, the police have got Jack. Yeah, I mean, he waits for five months with this letter ready to go.

And the police obviously did not want to pursue a case against the elderly doctor. But Mel was furious and he pushed hard for charges, claiming that the threat had scared him so much he'd had a heart attack. There is absolutely no proof that that happened. So, thanks to Mel Ignato pushing for it, there was a trial, at which Mel himself testified. The defence knew that if they could get Mel to maybe have an outburst in the dock, it might help their case.

So they asked Mel repeatedly if he had killed Brenda. Mel just stayed calm, however, and kept saying no, he hadn't. And in the end, Dr Spaling was found guilty of misdemeanor terroristic threatening and was fined $300. The case of missing Brenda Sue Schaefer gained even more media attention after this but for authorities this trial was just a subplot within a much larger drama because they were there purely to watch Mel. And remember the details of this seemingly irrelevant trial that we've just told you about because it will all become very, very

important later in today's episode. So now we've got the media glare on this case, which as we seasoned duvet detectives know, often makes all the difference. The police knew that they had to step things up now the heat was on. They also knew that Mel must have had an accomplice. There was no way he could have carried out the car staging and got away from it on his own. Exactly. It was like he could have walked away from it, but it would have left so many opportunities for him to be spotted. He couldn't have driven Brenda's car there, staged it, and then just walked off.

Like, somebody must have driven him away. And thinking that Mary Ann Shaw was definitely the weak link that they needed to break, the police did something extremely 80s style. The lead detective got Marianne in one day and essentially shouted the following at her. Marianne, we know Mel killed Brenda. Brenda was beautiful and he loved her

and he still killed her. He doesn't give a shit about you. And you're ugly. You're dead. Someone come and get your man. But she's such a fucking dick in this. But it's so unbelievable. They, like, record this.

Yeah, I bet. After this shouty interrogation, Marianne, to everyone's shock, agreed to a polygraph. Probably because she knew that they're bullshit. But she still failed it pretty spectacularly when she was asked if she had anything to do with Brenda's disappearance. And that meant that the police went after her even harder,

saying that it was only a matter of time before Mel killed her too. So she'd be much better off taking a plea deal and turning on Mel before he got to her. And Marianne Shaw finally agreed. She told the police that a few weeks before Brenda's disappearance, Mel had given her a list of items to go and buy, including a rope,

heavy-duty plastic bags, and tape. Somebody asked you to buy those things. Just don't ever speak to them again. Just delete their number. I think the bin bags and the tape, I'm like, okay. The rope?

If anyone ever asked me to buy a rope for any reason, I would have questions. So according to Mary, Mel said that he was going to bring Brenda over to her house the day that she came over to his to drop off the jewellery. He said that he'd find some sort of ruse to get her there, but that it was for, quote, sex therapy. over to his to drop off the jewellery. He said that he'd find some sort of ruse to get her there, but that it was for, quote, sex therapy. OK, and she doesn't think to ask, why do you need to bring Brenda over to my house?

I'm not a licensed sex therapist. Why don't you do it at your house? Mary Ann Shaw is not an intelligent woman. It's the 80s. Everyone's a sex therapist. Yes, that. And also, if anyone is, it's not Mary Ann Shaw. Because when she's doing these police interviews, she talks very, very explicitly about her sex life with Mel. And she does this weird thing where she keeps calling anal sex annual sex.

No. And the police are really confused because she keeps saying it and they're like do you mean anal and she's like yeah and they're like do you know that you're saying a different word she's a strange person she's a strange person she also says that the paddle that mel used to use on her and that he uses in other circumstances to be discussed later had engraved on it to mel from jeff jeff is his brother no unsubscribe i do not like that one bit and i don't know i've seen a picture of the paddle in the book and it could be like a table turner's paddle so i don't know if jeff's just like an innocent guy giving his brother a table turner's paddle and he's like using it for sexy stuff.

But why are you using that one? I don't like that. Just remember, something Saruti and I do is collect screenshots of Hinge profiles. So nobody's safe, boys. And just on the subject of people using words when they don't know what they mean. I remember it so clearly. There was this guy and the prompt was, what are you looking for? And he wrote, let's abscond from the city and amalgamate through the fields. And I was like, you don't know what amalgamate means, James.

That's not what that means. You mean like frolic and amalgamation is like a mixture of things. Stop it. Stop it. James, where are you? In a field amalgamating, presumably. Absolutely. Where else would he be? I hope that is where he is. I hope it's all worked out for him. And he's not having sex therapy at fucking Marianne Shaw's house. So, yeah,

this is what Marianne says that Mel told her was going to happen. But then, apparently, when Mel brought Brenda over to her house, he tied Brenda up, face down, to Mary's glass coffee table, and then sexually tortured her for hours. Apparently Mel had wanted Mary to join in on the assault,

but she said she didn't want to. So Mel had given her a camera and tasked her with documenting the entire ordeal. But he told her not to get his face in any of the shots. Mary claimed that he then took Brenda into the bedroom where he killed her with chloroform. They then buried Brenda in the woods behind Mary's house in a grave that Mel had dug two weeks before. Mary went on to confess that she and Mel had dug two weeks before. Mary went on to confess that she and Mel had even scream tested Mary's house days before. So Mary's inside the house screaming at the top of her lungs and Mel is on the outside checking what he could hear.

But she's still like, but he just told me it was for all the sex therapy. She does indeed because she just kept saying to the police that she absolutely, 100%, not on this earth, no way knew that Mel was going to kill Brenda. But she'd watched him quite literally dig a grave, and she had been the screamer in the great scream test. So it doesn't really sound like she didn't know. And this is the thing.

She doesn't try and cover up pieces of information that make her look guilty or that like contradict other things she's saying. She tells them about all of these things and then also says, but I didn't know. Like, but you just told us things that make it sound like you really did know. I'm always so fascinated by people who think that saying something is enough. Like, I'm just like, no, like that's not how language works, I'm afraid. And she's not even just like thinking that. She's like, I'll just say everything and then they'll just believe the bits that I want them to believe

and then everything is fine. Yeah, it's like that Ricky Gervais film, The Invention of Lying. Have you seen it? No. It's actually not a very good film, but it's a really good concept that there's a world where nobody knows what lying is. And then Ricky Gervais wakes up one day and he realises, he's like, oh, I can just say stuff.

Mary-Anne needs to realise that. Because she just says everything. And I don't accept that people kind of, we'll go on to talk about this, but a lot of people say that she's kind of a victim in this and she was under Mel's spell. I'm like, fucking bullshit, man. She's just stupid. She's a fucking mor moron that is the vibe i'm getting yeah that's it so the police told mary that her story made her look very guilty but it wasn't quite

enough they needed more so she agreed to show them where brenda's body was buried and she agreed to wear a wire with Mel in exchange for a plea deal. And this plea deal was essentially this. The agreement was that Mary would only be held accountable for a tampering of evidence charge if she got what the police needed and testified against Mel in court. Which is a remarkable plea deal, because she admits to having been there, been witness to the murder of Brenda. She doesn't come forward at all and, like, volunteer this information after it's been in the news fucking months.

She's caught. And then they're just like, we'll give you a tampering of evidence charge. Are you fucking serious? So she gets a really fucking sweet deal. She does, but she probably didn't realise it. But she agreed to this and she led investigators to where she said the body was. And with the search teams working away,

the police strapped Mary up with a wire to go and talk to their real target. And Mel, during this time, generally checked in on Mary every single day, no doubt to keep her in line. So when she asked to talk, it wouldn't have seemed that out of the ordinary. And Mary did mostly what she had been told by the police, though she did bottle it a few times, and she doesn't really push as hard as she could have during the conversation that she has with Mel. She told Mel that the woods behind her house

were being dug up because the land had been sold to some developers and she's meant to kind of say like oh no what if they find what's buried out there but the police also specifically told her that Mel has got to be the one to say Brenda's name and has to be the one to state the place of burial. And Mel is caught on tape during this whole wiretap extravaganza, berating Mary for letting the FBI, quote, rattle her and saying that he didn't care if they dug up the whole property

because that place we dug is not shallow. Oh, Mel. Yes, well, quite. But the problem was the execution of the wiretap operation was not the best. They had to strap the microphone onto Mary underneath her clothes and the pair met in a car park that was outside and the resulting audio, as you can imagine, especially given all the 80s, 90s

equipment, was very, very poor indeed. So incredibly frustratingly, this wire operation didn't really give the police anything super conclusive and they still hadn't found Brenda's body. But they knew that they had to make a move. It was way too risky not to. If Mel drove past the house and saw police digging, he could flee the state, maybe even the country. And with all of his contacts abroad from his fancy yacht boatman days, it was quite possible that they could lose him forever. So the police were really placing all

their bets on Mary, who, as we already have established, was not the world's most reliable witness. But in the end, they did nab him. They searched his house and they found drugs, sex toys, cameras, and tons of rolls of film. And a diary with the dates of the 23rd and the 24th of September obliterated. And those are, of course, the days that Brenda went missing. Just use a normal notebook like yours. Why are you fucking getting a diary out and scratching out the days you fucking murdered your girlfriend, you maniac? The people in this are so 80s.

They have not lived through a world of just constant true crime podcasts being streamed into their consciousness, clearly. He's just like scratching it out in a diary and Mary's like, oh, I was the screen tester and he dug a big old pit in the back. But I didn't know, I thought it was for sex therapy. Fucking hell. Help. The local police investigating this case had reached out to the FBI for consultation, and the profile they had been given was that Mel Ignato was a sexual sadist, and the Bureau assured the police that there would be photographic or video evidence of the crime. But none of the film found at the house gave them what they needed.

Still getting frustratingly nowhere, the authorities decided to move ahead with a grand jury against Mel. And just as a very quick reminder, a grand jury is, of course, there to determine whether there is enough evidence to move ahead with a prosecution. So whether there is enough evidence to take a person to criminal trial and try and convict them. It's not there to actually convict an individual of criminal charges. And as such, the target of a grand jury

rarely ever testifies. They always leave it to their lawyer to handle it, to poke holes in the evidence that the prosecution is putting forward. They don't testify. This is unheard of. But Mel Ignato said that he wanted to. He said that over the past few months, his name had been dragged through the filth and he wanted to clear it. I'm amazed he's not representing himself. I mean, he basically does, because he ignores every single thing his poor lawyer says to him.

And there was absolutely no stopping Mel, because once he got into the dog at the grand jury, he testified for four hours. Remember, he doesn't even have to do this. And he allows the court to dig into his sex lives with Marianne and Brenda, his finances, his family. They even asked him about the chloroform rag incident to which he replied that he used a rag soaked in chloroform simply because he had bad allergies and this is quote what he said right he said i just put it on my own face but sometimes you know how you'll be playful i think that's explained why he put it why he's drugging himself with chloroform because he has hay fever but But I think he's saying, I just put it on my own face, but sometimes you know how you'll be playful.

I think that is referring to him putting it on Brenda's. He was just being playful. Right. Sure. I mean, I get quite bad hay fever. Maybe I should try some. Yeah, I'll chloroform you. Just to be playful.

Mel also talked about his religion and how he'd never really fitted in because his mum was Catholic and his dad was Jewish, both very guilt-driven but for different reasons. The prosecutor leapt on this particular part of his story and then asked him, do you think God knows what happened to Brenda? To which Mel told the grand jury, God knows everything, but he doesn't tell us everything. I mean, for two guilt-laden religions, Mel skipped that whole bit.

He skipped that part of the fucking religious teachings. Thou shalt not bear false witness, Mel. And when he was asked, did you kill Brenda? Mel replied, no, absolutely not. I did not kill her. I would not have laid a finger on that woman. When questioned, Mel also said that Marianne and Brenda had never met. And this also becomes extremely very much so important later down the line. So get your pin out of your pin pocket and put it in your pin board. After his completely bizarre and quite

Rodney Alcala-esque testimony that generated 200 pages of transcript, Mel then left the court and held his very own press conference outside, saying that he hoped his testimony would help the police find Brenda's real killer. What a hero. He just can't stop. He just can't stop. Because after this, he decided to go on a sort of tour of TV and radio interviews to discuss how the allegations against him had ruined his life. He also became an active member in his church's singles group. Would you like to know what the singles group was called, Hannah? Presumably it's a Catholic one. And it's called B-Y-K-O-T-A which stands for Be Ye Kind One To Another

Saucy Oh my god I know So Mel's kind of outwardly behaving like everything's okay He feels like he's out there clearing his name joining a young hip church, church singles group.

He should join a group called Be Ye Not a Fucking Murderer. Well, quite. But then, a week before Mary Ann Shaw was set to testify in front of the grand jury, Mel tried to kill himself with a fucking horrible-sounding cocktail of vodka and Valium. But he survived. And soon after, at last, thanks to the help of a cadaver dog, fucking horrible sounding cocktail of vodka and valium. But he survived.

And soon after, at last, thanks to the help of a cadaver dog, because Marianne is just like, I don't know, she's somewhere out here in these woods. And they finally bring in a cadaver dog, which I don't know why they didn't just do in the fucking beginning. The police finally found Brenda's body buried in the woods. And the body, just like Mary Ann Shaw had said, was wrapped in four overlapping black plastic bags that had been taped up. And Brenda had been tied up with a clothesline, her heels against her bottom and her head against her knees, her arms wrapped around her legs and tied at her ankles. She was

also completely naked. Her clothes were found wrapped up separately in another plastic bag. It soon became obvious that the body had been in the ground for at least 16 months. So Brenda had died as soon as she had vanished. And if you are eating, I would advise you to stop for the next two minutes. The problem was that the ground that Brenda's remains were buried in was very cool and very soggy. So that meant that Brenda's remains, there was now fat. Soft tissue turns into fat.

And thereby, young listener, that means that the outer layer of skin had totally dissolved and the body tissue was completely distorted. So an autopsy was basically impossible, extremely difficult, and any recovery of forensic evidence was a complete waste of time, totally impossible. Brenda was buried on the 13th of January 1990 at her family plot in Cave Hill Cemetery. And although the body yielded little further solid evidence pointing to Malignato, the decision was made to go ahead and prosecute him anyway. And this is the problem. Let's just recap. Basically, all the police have is, at this point,

Mary Ann Shaw pointing the finger at Mal Ignato. He tells a completely different story where she just dropped him off and then she went on her way at 11.30. They have nothing to physically back up Mel having been involved in the murder. In fact it happened at Mary Ann's house and Brenda's body is buried in Mary Ann's back garden, essentially. So going ahead to prosecute him was a risky choice, to say the least. And the problems just, like, don't get any better because Mary Ann was, of course, the star witness and she actually developed Bell's palsy in the lead-up to the pre-trial hearings. So it was very difficult for people to understand what she was saying.

And this caused major delays. And this was really, really sad, because during these delays, sadly both of Brenda's parents actually died, so they never even got to see what was going to happen. They died not knowing anything. So by the time that Mary Ann was finally well enough to testify, it was December 1991. And the trial could at last get going. And she had her trial first,

so obviously because she's taken the plea deal, they have their trial separately. And she obviously had agreed to plead guilty. And she had, of course, agreed to plead guilty for the charge, the incredibly minimal charge of tampering with evidence. Then it was time for Mel's trial and it basically all depended on Mary Ann convincing the jury that Mel had indeed killed Brenda. But like we keep saying she was not a good witness and the police and prosecution claimed afterwards that they were stuck sort of finding a balance between overcoaching her as a star witness and not preparing her well enough. Because they knew that the jury might see through a super hyper polished, hyper rehearsed performance.

But in hindsight, they should have coached her harder, much harder. Marianne turned up to court in a miniskirt and spent a large amount of time in the dock laughing. And I'm like, OK, if people are going to be like, well, she can wear what she wants. Sure she can fucking wear what she wants when she goes down the fucking club. You're in court on a murder trial and you're the fucking star witness. You wouldn't wear a fucking miniskirt to your grandma's funeral. It's about appropriateness and it's about whatever you want to think of it and whatever you want to say. It's about how the jury are going to perceive you.

Yeah. And put some fucking thought into it. Mary also had previous fraud charges, which, of course, the defence gleefully brought up. Because what does that do? It makes her look even more unreliable. And it makes her look incredibly deceitful. Because they were all for things like writing bad checks. And then she made herself look even worse by lying.

Not even retrospectively, she lies on the spot right there in court. At first, she said she had only seen or met Brenda once. But when later asked to describe Brenda, she asked, Do you mean the last time I saw her? She's so stupid. And then Mary ran out of court when she was questioned on the discrepancy of her testimony. The prosecution have got a real job on their hands. It's a real hard sell.

There is no physical evidence linking Mel to the murder of Brenda. And the idea of Mary having killed her, the jealous love rival, seemed a little bit more compelling to some members of the jury. After all, Brenda had died at her house, she was buried in the woods behind Mary's dwelling, and Mary had also got an unbelievably good plea deal. So surely she would say anything to keep that going. So what about the tape of Mel talking about graves, the one that Marianne had got when she'd wired up for the police? Well, the prosecutor played the jury this recording,

and it included Mel telling Marianne not to worry because, quote, that place we dug is not shallow. However, he mumbles the word dug, and the jury also thought that they couldn't be sure if he was saying the word safe or grave on the tape. So they just thought he could have been talking about a buried safe with stolen items in it. It wasn't clear to them what was actually being said. And if you listen to the recording now, it's kind of easy when you know you're expecting to hear that place we dug is not shallow you can hear it but they're obviously in a court of law the standards are much higher and it isn't clear it's really not clear so I don't blame the jury

for feeling like they couldn't be a hundred percent or even beyond a reasonable doubt that that's what was being said and then even when the prosecutor tried to bring in witnesses who Brenda had told about the abuse she had suffered from Mel during their relationship, all these people could say was what Brenda had told them. Love, Tom, Joyce, everybody who comes forward to testify, none of them ever actually witnessed the abuse. They just had heard it from Brenda. And so, after a three-week-long trial, the jury deliberated for just six hours and found Malignato not guilty on all charges. And because he'd been in prison for two years in the lead-up to the trial, he was immediately released. The jury felt that there was beyond a reasonable doubt

that Mel had been involved in the murder. A lot of them felt like the police had tunnel vision in only going after Mel and not looking at anyone else. And as infuriating as it is, it's quite hard to argue with them. There just wasn't enough evidence. And by not enough, I mean none. It was a weak case, best from the prosecution. But the trial judge also thought that it was wrong that Mel had been acquitted. And he actually wrote to the Schaffers saying that justice

would be done in this life or the next. But if that's where you think this story ends today then you've forgotten our intro dear friend and you're also not looking down at your little uh count bar of how far into the episode you are because in the lead up to the trial mel had had to sell his fancy house to pay for his defense but remember like hannah just said he was in prison for two years leading up to the trial because of all of the delays. And so the house was empty. Then he had to sell it while he's in prison. And he had left behind some pretty vital evidence in a vent underneath the carpet.

Bingo! And so this brings us back to the start. The couple find the bag, call the police. The police go and arrest Mel and back to the start. The couple find the bag, call the police, the police go and arrest Mel, and they develop the films. And, of course, they quickly discover that they contained exactly what Mary Ann Shaw had said they would. They showed a man with his head out of shot in every picture sexually torturing Brenda

as she lay tied up to the glass coffee table in Mary Ann Shaw's house. A question I have here how on an old and timey camera which is just point and shoot are you making sure his head isn't in shot in every single picture especially if you're saying you didn't even know this was going to happen like wouldn't you have been scared if you were Mary Ann how does she manage to perfectly get his head out of shot in every photo in In the 105 photos they found in those film rolls, not one of them shows Mel Ignato's face. That, to me, seems shocking, that she didn't even accidentally get him in there.

No, he's still looking through the viewfinder. Yeah, but, like, wouldn't you be scared? You'd be shaking? I don't know. I found that quite weird. Makes me feel like she had a steady hand. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And Mel Ignato's head might have been out of shot in all of the pictures but the man in the photos was very clearly him moles and hair patterns were matched easily and the police could prove that it was indeed mel but of course this plastic bag full of evidence wasn't found until October 1992 after his acquittal for Brenda's murder. So now it didn't matter thanks to double jeopardy which is of course the law in North America that states a person cannot be tried twice for the same offence and here in the UK actually double jeopardy was scrapped in 2005 after it had been in law for 800 years. And it was actually changed after a number of successful campaigns, most notably the murder of Stephen Lawrence. So thanks to this, in the US, Nell couldn't be tried again for the murder of Brenda Sue Schaefer, despite the stone cold

evidence they now had in their hands. And it does beg the question, why didn't they go after him for something else like torture or like improper burial of a body or something like that that was more substantial than what they eventually go on to get him for? Because the prosecutors didn't drop it. And the federal government actually decided to go after Melignato for perjury, which, OK, but again, like, why not something else? And the reason they're able to go after him for perjury is because, if you'll kindly remember, dear listener, Mel had testified unnecessarily in front of a federal grand jury. Ah, so he's perjured himself. Yes. So the thing that's interesting here is that Brenda Sue Schaefer's case is not a federal case. He didn't take her over state lines. He didn't do it in conjunction with another crime that would make it, you know, a federal case. The FBI only consult on it. They're never involved.

So the federal government can't just get involved and prosecute him for something else related to maybe that's why they didn't go after him for something like improper burial. But they can go after him for the grand jury perjury. And remember there, he said that he did not kill Brenda. And now they had proof that he did, because of the photos. And remember, he also said that Mary Ann and Brenda had never met. But here was Mary Ann, also visible in some of the photos. So they charged him with perjury and mel ignato was offered a plea deal which he accepted why was he offered that plea deal i can hear you scream in anger and defiance well the plea deal would mean that those photos of brenda would never need to be made public and to accept the plea deal mel would have to admit to the murder publicly

which he did but in classic piece of shit narcissistic personality disorder style he claimed that there had been reasons for the horrible things he did but no excuses and then he told Brenda's devastated family that she had died peacefully

there are just no words. Again, it's like, just because you say something doesn't mean it's true. Mel was sent to prison for eight years, but he was out in just five. But even still, it's not over. Mel had some more lies that were about to come back and bite him in the arse. So remember adorable Dr Spaulding and how Mel had pushed for a trial and Mel himself had testified in that trial and yet again claimed that he had not killed Brenda. Well he obviously did so the state went after him for that too and that got him another nine years for another

conviction of perjury. And the way they're able to do it is because the grand jury is federal jurisdiction and Dr Spaulding's case is state jurisdiction. jury is federal jurisdiction and Dr Spalding's case is state jurisdiction. So the federal government go after him first, get him for eight years, he serves five, and then the state go after him for the Spalding case, which again, he didn't need to fucking push for and he didn't need to testify at. He did all of this unnecessarily and he gets found guilty again. In 2006, Malignato finally got out of prison. And some people gas up the state for just getting him in jail for something. But ultimately, they just did a terrible job. He should have been convicted of murder.

Yeah, sure, he spent most of his time between the murder and his eventual death in prison. But only because he couldn't keep his mouth shut. Yeah, the reason he was there wasn't because of the state or the federal government. It was because he couldn't keep his stupid fucking mouth shut. He was running his mouth all over the place. And this was all very indicative of Mel Ignato's personality. Now, I couldn't find much in the way of like a psychological assessment of him after Brenda's murder. This is probably very highly likely because he was acquitted, so why should that be released?

And obviously, we are not experts. But Mel does fit a lot of the typical traits of a narcissist and also some of psychopathy. He was arrogant, controlling, condescending, grandiose, always lying and incredibly reckless for example it was him going after people like dr spaulding and testifying at the grand jury all unnecessarily instead of just laying low that ultimately completely fucked him not to mention all the press conferences that he gave they were also unnecessary but they served a purpose to him at the time. Attention, control, and feeding his ego. So how did all this feed into his crimes? Well, Mayor Lignato could not handle the fact that Brenda had rejected him. It was an affront to him. How dare she? Revenge had to be taken for him to

be able to cope with it. And it was going to have to be extreme. It was going to have to be extreme it was going to have to include things like the extreme hours of torture and the idea of involving somebody else because mayor lignato as the fbi rightly said was also a sexual sadist and what do we know about sexual sadists well often they involve a third party to witness or take part in their own crimes and we've talked about this with cases like the fred and rose west case we talked about this with cases like the Fred and Rose West case. We talked about it in our book as well. And this is because the reason they like to involve someone else is because afterwards, they kind of have like a living trophy to look at.

And they don't just sort of look at this trophy in this other person to relive their happy murder memories. But also, that person serves the purpose of being a living witness to them having regained their almighty power by destroying another human being. But what about Mary? What was in it for her? Why did she take part? Because let's be clear, she's not innocent here. She knew exactly what Mel was going to do. And again, we don't have any psychological analysis of her, but she was an odd person, to say the very least. Let's look at stuff like laughing in the dark. She really seemed to lack any idea about how

she was coming across. And seemingly she had zero remorse over what she'd done to Brenda. She only testified because the police pressured her, and she was scared of what Mel might do to her. She only served a few years in prison for evidence tampering, and she was scared of what Mel might do to her. She only served a few years in prison for evidence tampering, and that was way too good of a plea deal. So really, both Mel and Mary escaped justice. But let's get back to Mel. Once he was out of prison for the second time, he was broke as a joke, and he moved back to Louisville.

There, he lived in an apartment on his own and by this point he was pretty desperately unwell. Almost every night his neighbours would hear him screaming in pain for Jesus to come and get him. And finally on the 1st of September 2008 Mel's adult son found his dad dead in his apartment. It seemed that Mel had fallen onto his glass coffee table and bled to death. It's almost a bit too poetic, isn't it? I mean, I really don't believe in ghosts, or I don't want to believe in ghosts and stuff, but I really would love the idea that Brenda Sue Schaefer just fucking came back as this

vengeful ghost, and that's why he spent every night he was in that apartment screaming for Jesus because she was fucking scaring the shit out of him. And then eventually she just pushed him over onto his glass coffee table. Because if you remember, he tied her to a glass coffee table when he tortured her. It's crazy. One can hope. One can dream. Absolutely. One can implore Jesus in their sleep.

Absolutely. Let's do all of those things above And just fucking fuck you Malignato Honestly It took me about two seconds into that script To be like I hate this man He is the worst of the worst Not exactly a hot take

No But you know That's what we're working with today So there you go But I love Dr Spaulding I love him too I want to give Dr Spaulding a hug And when he was fined the $300 He said That's what we're working with today. So there you go. But I love Dr. Spaulding. I love him too. I want to give Dr. Spaulding a hug. And when he was fined the $300, he said, that's fair.

Oh, stop. And then he retired and sold his practice and then just went and lived on a farm somewhere. I don't know if that last bit's true, but anyway. What, like when your dog dies? Dr. Spaulding's just gone off to the dentist farm with all the other dentists and he gets to play every day. Absolutely. Does fillings at three o'clock. It's great. He's having a great time. Don't worry about him kids. So that's it guys. That is the fucking horrendous tale of Brenda Sue Schaefer and the piece of shit that is Mel Ignato. And so yeah obviously

he did escape justice but maybe he got some ghostly vengeance. Ghost vengeance justice. That's what I'm hoping. So that's it. That's it. Wrapping up here. If you would like some more from us, if you'd like a palate cleanser, come on over to listen to or watch Under the Duvet. If you are a $5 and up patron, you can do that now. Lucky you. And here are some people who've paid 20 whole dollars for that privilege we have melanie fetterhoff caitlin stashen marlon preto amanda up padai yeah i amanda come on now sabrina longo shireen price leanne basham leone 1990 felicitas uh sean whittingham, Carol Wen, Freckleface, Manor, Tag, Kelly Bullock, Sarah McClatchlan,

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Goodbye. You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either, until I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness, and inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more.

Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announce they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures

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