RedHanded - Episode 34 - The Most Dangerous Prisoner in Britain

Episode Date: February 22, 2018

In a Perspex box, in Wakefield maximum security prison sits alleged cannibal, confirmed killer and rumoured inspiration behind "Hannibal" - Robert Maudsely. Named the most dangerous prisoner in Britain, after 39 years in solitary, Maudsely now also holds the record for the longest time served in soltiary confinement in the world. Join the girls this week as they get knee-deep in prison politics and the reality of managing a man like Robert Maudsley.   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hannah. I'm Saruti. And welcome to Red Handed. And this week we're talking about prisoners. Charles Bronson is famously the most violent and possibly the most famous prisoner

in Britain, especially after the Tom Hardy covered in large situation in that film. What film is that it's called bronson oh i've never seen it oh it's a good film tom hardy plays charles bronson yes where do you where have you been i've never seen that film that film is like the reason tom hardy is as famous as he is really yes oh i thought it was that creepy photo of him and a wife peter where he's like looks like he's on loads of drugs. Have you never seen that one? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's a press shot for Bronson. Oh, okay. No. Even though Bronson has this reputation for being Britain's most violent prisoner, he's never actually killed

anyone and his original crime was robbing a post office. So if you were to picture the most dangerous prisoner in Britain, the most dangerous prisoner alive in Britain today, what would you think that their crime is? Murder. What, how many? What kind? Cereal. Okay. Tons.

Because Robert Maudsley is absolutely not what I expected, but he does hold the title of Britain's most dangerous prisoner. And, coincidentally, he's kept on the same wing as Charles Bronson at Wakefield Prison. And I actually read that people call Wakefield Prison the monster mansion because there are so many, like, super dangerous people in there. But Robert Maudsley has his very own Perspex box where he will spend the rest of his life. This box is bulletproof and measures 4.3 by 5.5 metres square. It has a chair and table made of compressed cardboard, a toilet and sink that are bolted to the floor, and a PlayStation 2 and a television, but these can be taken away at any time dependent

on behaviour. Maudsley's bed is a concrete slab and when Maudsley was first placed in Solitary, he did not have a television for 20 years. Robert Maudsley is bed is a concrete slab. And when Maudsley was first placed in solitary, he did not have a television for 20 years. Robert Maudsley is actually the current record holder for the longest time spent in solitary confinement. At the time of this recording, Maudsley will have been in solitary confinement for 14,470 days, which is just over 39 years. Robert has passed his food through a hatch in the Perspex box and is

escorted out of his cell once a day for his hour of exercise, but he often refuses this, preferring to stay in his Perspex prison. Before anyone accuses us of making out that Robert Maudsley is like a helpless victim of the system, I'm just going to lay it out. He murdered four people and absolutely no one is denying that, but the circumstances of these murders raise a lot of really important questions about mental health care, justice, the prison system in the UK, and in particular, solitary confinement. So Mortley's first victim was the only one he actually killed as a free man. All of the other murders took place in prison. And I think this is maybe why he's called Britain's Most Dangerous Prisoner, because when we hear that phrase, we think, oh, who was the most dangerous on the outside? And now he's locked away and he's really dangerous.

But Robert Maudsley, I think, has the title of Britain's Most Dangerous Prisoner because he is. In prison, he is the most dangerous man that we've ever come across. And it's the same with Charles Bronson. He's the most violent prison because he was violent in prison, not on the outside. So Maudsley never actually stood trial for this first murder. He was sent straight to a prison for the criminally insane. How did Maudsley end up in a perspex box round the corner from Charles Bronson in Wakefield, the monster mansion, because it is the largest high security prison on the British Isles. How did he end up here? Well, just a heads up, because this one gets graphic. Maudsley was born on the 26th of June 1953 in Toxteth in Liverpool. His parents,

Jean and George Maudsley, would eventually have a total of 12 children. But before Robert's second birthday, he and three of his siblings Brenda, Paul and Kevin were taken away from their parents and sent to an orphanage. Now whatever was going on at home can't have been good if an orphanage was preferable to them staying there. And an orphanage in the 50s. Oh god. This orphanage was called the Nazareth House and was run by nuns and this absolutely set our Magdalene laundry sirens blaring. And also, me personally, I went to a Catholic girls' school run by the most sadistic nuns in the world, because it was in a different country. And believe me, they beat the shit out of us. So, you know, a lot of nun

prejudice was felt here. But contrary to this, the Morsley children actually spent a very happy seven years here at Nazareth House and they actually didn't want to leave. I really was expecting when I read that to be like, oh, the cause of his cycle of abuse was he was in an orphanage run by nuns and they abused him. I was expecting that, but it's not that at all, which really was quite surprising there you go made us check our prejudices right there yeah exactly nuns they spent seven happy years here and then for whatever reason now when robert was eight years old he and his siblings will move back to their parents house sending their children to nazareth house it could have been for financial

reasons or they could have been taken by the authorities. We couldn't find like an ironclad source on that. But what happens in the next chapter of the Maudsley's life indicates that even before Nazareth House, there was abuse in the Maudsley home. Robert Maudsley would later tell reams of psychiatrists of the physical, emotional and sexual abuse that all of the Maudsley children felt at the hands of their father. It's also key to remember that Robert Maudsley had only been one year old when he was taken to Nazareth House, so he had no memory of his parents. So when he was returned to them, they were total strangers, he had no connection to them. All of the children were beaten, but the worst of the punishments were always saved for Robert. Maudsley later said,

All I remember of my childhood is the beatings. Once I was locked in a room for six months and my father only opened the door to come in and beat me four or six times a day. He used to hit me with sticks or rods and once he bust a.22 air rifle over my back. And I also read that Jean, the children's mother, would just like constantly dob the children in. If her husband George wasn't at home and the children misbehaved,

she would tell him all about it as soon as he got home. The children had absolutely no ally in their mother. She wasn't, you know, protecting them from the beatings and the abuse that George was doling out. But this singling out of Robert took another turn when he was placed in a foster home by himself, so separated completely from his siblings. And when his brothers and sisters asked their father where Robert had gone, he simply told them that he was dead. I mean, fucking hell.

Yeah, it's fucking rough. Then at age 16, Robert fled to London. But it didn't really go well for him because within a few short months Maudsley was sleeping rough, he had a severe drug addiction and as we see just time and time again he ended up having to support himself through prostitution. During this period Robert Maudsley became really well known to local police and hospitals due to several suicide attempts and the next few years would see Maudsley in an array of hospitals being held on multiple psychiatric

wards, but every time he was released he was back on the streets and straight back to sex work. Maudsley repeatedly told mental health professionals that he heard voices in his head that told him to kill his parents. In 1973, 21-year-old Maudsley was picked up by John Farrell in Wood Green, which for our non-London literate listeners is in North London. Farrell took Maudsley back to his flat and before the pair engaged in anything sexual, Farrell allegedly showed Maudsley photographs of children. In some accounts, these photographs were Farrell actually carrying out acts of physical and sexual abuse on these children. In others, they were just pictures of

children that Farrell claimed to have sexually abused. Why he does this, but it just seems weird that you've brought someone back to your flat and the first thing you do is take out pictures of children that you've raped. Does it? I don't know. I think it kind of seems a bit classic. That's what gets him off. You know, he's brought this guy home for some sex and he wants to show him, he wants him to be a part of that fantasy. And I think he maybe needed to look at that, make Maudsley part of that fantasy. And then that was what was really going to get this guy off. So actually, I don't think it seems that out of the blue to me or that like crazy to me. Yeah, that's a good point, actually.. Yeah we don't know whether these pictures were just children or photographs of the acts being carried out but we will never know

because in case you hadn't guessed Farrell is Maudsley's first victim. The pictures of the children sent Maudsley into a blind rage. He strangled John Farrell to death and stole a fiver from his pocket then left. It didn't take long for the police to catch up with Maudsley, who they thought to be in the middle of a psychotic episode. Maudsley was deemed to be unfit to stand trial, so they shipped him straight off to Broadmoor. And it was at Broadmoor, the hospital for the criminally insane, that Maudsley would earn his famous nickname, Hannibal the Cannibal. It's really important to note here that Broadmoor is a psychiatric facility and therefore has very different rules to your standard prison. And in

1977, patients on the mayor wing were allowed out of their rooms to play football and Maudsley and fellow patient David Cheeseman saw their chance. The pair grabbed a sex offender and paedophile named David Francis and barricaded themselves with him in a room. They then proceeded to torture Francis for nine hours. The guards tried their best, but they just couldn't negotiate effectively with Maudsley and Cheeseman. And eventually they ended up strangling Francis to death with a garrote made from a radio cable.

But not before they had smashed his head into the wall with such force that part of David Francis's brain was visible. According to a Broadmoor guard, Robert Maudsley then took a spoon and stuck it into David Francis's head and ate part of his brain. However, before you lose your mind, pun very much intended, this didn't actually happen. Although this is what Robert Maudsley is famous for, it didn't actually happen. The autopsy of Francis showed that his skull was completely intact and none of his brain was missing. We read one report that said the missing pieces of Francis's brain were assumed to have been eaten by Maudsley. Which, first of all, who is doing brain inventory when bursting into a cell where two criminally insane men have just murdered somebody? Nobody. And secondly, it seems a bit strange, even if you

realise that someone's brain bits are missing, that your first response to that information is, oh, they must have eaten them. And I think what people argue with this is like, oh, they were in a prison cell. There's nowhere to like hide things. They must have been eaten. There's nowhere else for them to be. But the rooms in Broadmoor aren't really like cells. They're like hospital rooms. There's more places to hide things than there would be in a prison cell. And also, why isn't Cheeseman said to be a cannibal as well? Like, why does everyone just assume it was Robert Maudsley? He was there, and loads of the articles that we read for this one just seemed to forget that Cheeseman was involved in this.

But guess, guess which newspaper, which of our favourite newspapers was the one to print that Maudsley was, in fact, a cannibal? So it's either the Daily Mail or The Sun. It was of course the Daily Mail. Like fuck it I wouldn't wipe my ass with it honestly. Stop reading it. It will just make you think that water will give you cancer and immigrants are here to steal your benefits and also give you cancer so. And also take your job while simultaneously claiming benefits and being unemployed. They'll be unemployed, exactly. They'll be claiming all the benefits and they'll also be stealing your job.

It's Schrodinger's immigrant. 100%. So yeah, they have printed a retraction since the autopsy of Francis became available, but the damage is already done. On like page 50. Anyway, I'll stop. But unlike his first murder, Maudsley was found fit to stand trial for this one. It's bizarre that he's found fit to stand trial for a murder that he carried out in a hospital for the criminally insane.

That one he stands trial for. And he was found guilty of manslaughter and sentenced to life in prison. Instead of going back to Broadmoor or any sort of psychiatric facility, Maudsley continues to serve a majority of his sentence at Wakefield Prison. Which I find interesting.

So I have a question. So he stands trial. First, first kill, he's deemed unfit to stand trial, sent to a psychiatric hospital. Second kill he makes in a psychiatric hospital. He stands trial and is found guilty of manslaughter, I assume for diminished responsibility due to insanity. So then he's taken out of a psychiatric hospital and placed in a regular prison,

even though he's now been found guilty of manslaughter due to reasons of diminished responsibility. It's kind of just like a game of hot potato. Like they're just like, oh, we thought Broadsmoor was gonna be able to handle it. They can't handle it. Let's put him in actual prison. See if that's better. It's just passing the buck really. Yeah.

Maudsley is then sent to Wakefield Prison and really interesting piece that we got from a retired Wakefield prison guard who theorized that the reason for the cannibalism rumors was that during the nine hours of torture that Maudsley and Cheeseman had inflicted upon Francis, Maudsley had taken a plastic spoon, broken it down the middle to fashion a sharp point and, oh god, ears, I can't deal with ears, your teeth, I can't deal with ears, then plunged it deep into Francis's ear. And when the spoon was pulled out, it would have been covered with blood and gore.

So he said that he thought that maybe this is where the rumours of brain eating and cannibalism had started, because he stood there with a bloody spoon. Exactly. There was a spoon with blood all over it that had been in someone's ear. I think that's, you know, the seed of the rumour. So the spoon wasn't, as some reported, sticking out of David Francis's open skull. The Perspex box Maudley would later be kept in does

bear a striking resemblance to the one Hannibal Lecter is kept in, in the film The Silence of the Lambs. And honestly, I think there are just so many similarities. I really feel like they got a lot of inspiration for that film from this case, because this all happened, and you know, the Perspex box was built seven years before the film was released. Maudsley also had a very high IQ, enjoyed classical music, and the media absolutely loved drawing comparisons between Maudsley and the fictional Hannibal. So it's hardly surprising, as given this, that the cannibalism rumors just continued to swirl the rumors of course followed maudsley from broadmoor to wakefield guards at wakefield were absolutely terrified of maudsley and they even believed that he could crush a man's skull like an egg with one

hand i just think the rumors the almost like legendary status or like the mythology created around this man while he's still alive is remarkable yeah absolutely and yeah he lives up to it it only took a few weeks at wakefield for maudsley to live up to his terrifying reputation because in july 1978 he killed two wakefield inmates on the same day they say hollywood is where dreams made, a seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near L.A. in 1983,

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This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On the Media. To listen, subscribe to On the Media wherever you get your podcasts. So allegedly on the day of the murders, Maudsley made two little paper coffins in his cell and placed human hair inside them. So it's pretty clear he planned on killing two men that day. That is so weird. It is, isn't it i also think one of the reasons uh he's been so harshly punished along with the danger he poses to other inmates is

also that he's embarrassed the prison system because he killed two people on the same day that's embarrassing that's a really good point after he makes his little paper coffins he goes and finds his first victim, who is called Salne Darwood, who was incarcerated for the murder of his wife. Quite a lot of papers printed that he was a sex offender. He wasn't. He'd only killed his wife.

Obviously, not great. Still not great. But the pair, they knew each other. They'd actually been studying French together, so they were on speaking terms. It's really hard to know whether Maudsley had picked him out previously or whether he just didn't really care who he was killing. It would appear that they were mates if they're spending time learning French together

but Maudsley stabbed Arwood repeatedly with a shiv then used a garrot to strangle him until he died. I had never ever come across the word shiv before in my life. Really? I'm just going to put this out there for anyone else who is as ignorant as I am about what a shiv before in my life really i'm just gonna put sat there for anyone else who's as ignorant as i am about what a shiv is it's a slang term for a knife for a sharp knife and apparently comes from the romany word shiver mangrove that's good knowledge i think like when when i say shiv i mean in a prison context it's like a handmade i've heard shank where it's like handmade like

made from like a fucking toothbrush or something. I think shank is just like knife, like normal knife. Oh no, I think shank means like, you know, fashioned sharp implement for you to do your stabbing business in prison with. Shiv, shank, there you go. In case anyone was wondering, because I definitely was before. So once Starwood was dead, Maudsley just slipped him under his bunk just swept him under the carpet and continued with his day as a as if nothing had happened but how Darwood's corpse went unnoticed in a prison

I don't know but later the same afternoon Maudsley made his way down to the cell of inmate Bill Roberts Roberts was lying face down on his bunk Maudsley stabbed him multiple times with the same And what happened next is remarkable. Maudsley left the body of Bill Roberts in his cell and calmly walked into the room where the guards were. He walked up to the prison staff, placed the bloody shiv on the table in front of them and told them that they would be two men down at the next roll call. So casual! I mean, fucking hell. These murders, although horrific, were not dealt with by the external justice system. Morsi didn't stand trial for them because he was already serving life. And this is a really interesting problem that occurs in maximum security prisons where inmates really are there for the rest of their lives. What do you do to punish them more? What do they have to lose? This is the thing,

at the minute you take all hope away from a man, and I'm not saying, you know, that I disagree with life imprisonment. I'm not saying that at all. I totally think life imprisonment is valid and needed and justified. But how do you then treat that person in prison when they have nothing to lose? Exactly. Often the only punishment that prisons can throw at inmates is solitary confinement, which, I don't know, I have really mixed feelings about it, but it does sort of teeter towards the cruel and unusual punishment side of the spectrum, in my opinion. And there's a really good BBC Storyville documentary called The Last Days of Solitary. It does a really good

job of outlining what solitary confinement does to people. Because in short, it makes people depressed, it makes them much more likely to self-harm, makes them unstable, and it makes them violent. This is so interesting because I really feel like it creates a sort of vicious cycle in the prison system. You take someone who is violent in the prison system, they're a lifer, so what do you give them? You put them in solitary confinement, whether as a punishment but also to protect the general population and the guards from them. But then this makes them more violent. Then they can never be back out with the general population. So they're then condemned as we've

seen with maudsley to spend the rest of their lives in solitary confinement which seems completely insane it's so interesting solitary confinement was first trialed i think it was in like as long ago as the 1800s in the states and the idea behind it was that if you take this violent criminal and you put him in a cell on his own so he has to confront himself you just leave him alone with his thoughts that he's somehow gonna morph into like a penitent monk and then emerge as this model citizen and obviously this didn't happen the experiment was a total disaster it's almost like they've taken it from the idea of like when your child misbehaves and you're like go to your room and think about what you've done it's the naughty step if you spend enough time on your

own you will then be confronted with everything you've done you'll go to your room and think about what you've done it's the naughty step if you spend enough time on your own you will then be confronted with everything you've done you'll come to your senses and realize what a terrible person you've been but that's obviously not what happened and recently there was an experiment testing the psychological effect of isolation on monkeys and they found that when monkeys were isolated they would start to rock compulsively and when they were reintroduced into social situations with other monkeys they were prone to like violent fits of rage out of nowhere so like even when they were reintroduced into normal monkey social situations they couldn't handle it after this period of isolation it's almost like de-socialization It makes the person regress and then unable to be in social environments. That's terrifying. Before this, I was like, solitary confinement is torture,

it shouldn't be used, blah, blah, blah. But thinking about this case, how do you keep control over criminals with absolutely nothing to lose if you don't have the threat of solitary confinement, if you don't have anything to make them toe the line like i don't have any answers and i think with robert maudsley he has to be in solitary confinement because he keeps killing people this is the thing as well in prisons or in any sort of institution there needs to be rules and then there needs to be strict consequences if those rules aren't adhered to because it's only through that level of process only through that kind of rigorous system you have in place will people learn to behave properly will people change their behavior it's hard to say but i think without any sort of consequences for negative behavior or rule breaking and without follow-through on that it would just be complete

bedlam to be honest when it comes to roaudsley, like my lefty torture arguments, are neither here nor there, really, because all of the murders happened when he was in Gen Pop, like when he wasn't in solitary confinement. Solitary confinement was not the reason for his murders, both Broadmoor and Wakefield, not a result of solitary confinement. So, you know, what could the prison system have done differently

to prevent these murders on the inside? And I don't know if they could have done anything. I don't know. what could the prison system have done differently to prevent these murders on the inside? And I don't know if they could have done anything. I don't know. This is the thing. And, you know, these prisoners are taken away from society because they're not safe to be around us. But then what do you do with the prisoners that aren't safe to be around each other? You have to put them somewhere else. You can't just chuck them in a pit and let them fight it out like fucking battle royale. Like, the prison system has to keep prisoners safe from themselves, from each other, and also the guards deserve to be safe. They're just going to work to do their job, so it's really hard to know or to suggest exactly what could have

been done, even though this clearly wasn't the best solution. Now, the double homicide day that we've just talked about is what landed Maudsley in the solitary confinement wing of the prison, as Maudsley, as we've talked about, was deemed unfit to associate with any other prisoners. He was placed in solitary confinement not only as a punishment, but for the safety of the other inmates. He clearly needed vast amounts of psychiatric intervention, but the best place the UK has for that was Broadmoor, but he'd already murdered there and they couldn't send him back. So what, again, were they supposed to do with him? Now, due to Maudsley's suicidal tendencies, Wakefield decided

that a normal solitary confinement cell afforded him far too many opportunities to kill himself. So they built him a perspex box in the basement of the prison where only he and Charles Bronson lived. And reportedly, Maudsley at one point went 12 years without a haircut because, well, no prison barber would agree to go near him. There are also rumours that he developed a speech impediment due to lack of communication with other people. No media outlets have photographed him for over 20 years, so any photos we have of him that we'll definitely share on the social media are completely woefully out of date. And in 2000, Maudsley wrote to the Times requesting that he be given a TV and books, and if he can't

have them, he then requested a cyanide pill so he could kill himself. He wrote, I'm left to stagnate, vegetate, and to regress, left to confront my solitary head-on with people who have eyes but do not see, and with people who have ears but do not hear, and have mouths but do not speak. Why can't I have a budgie instead of the flies and cockroaches and spiders I currently have? I promise to love it and not to eat it. And apparently Morsley spends quite a lot of his time writing to mental health professionals, requesting explanations for why he is the way he is, and constantly makes requests that he be allowed to end his life. I mean, I can see why. Yeah,

what does he have to live for? I would rather be dead than be trapped in a Perspex box. They can't allow it. It's such a slippery slope. I have seen it argued that Maudsley should be given a more lenient sentence or at least be let out of the perspex box because he only killed criminals. So it's a Dexter argument, really. And, you know, they say he only killed sex offenders and murderers, so he's a vigilante, not just a common serial killer. And I just, I really don't think this is the case. I don't think Maudsley chose to murder any of the men that he killed. He wasn't like picking off child abusers one by one to clean up the streets. He was just really unwell.

And I think this is such a bullshit argument that makes me really angry because I just think the first kill, yes, I absolutely think because of the abuse he suffered, he was triggered by the pictures that that man showed him and he killed him but then in prison he killed criminals because he was surrounded by criminals he killed who he had access to exactly that and the natural progression with kills like this with someone who has clearly unstoppable rage and severe psychological problems like mordsley does what just let's release him because he killed dangerous people the next step is that he will escalate he will devolve and he will kill you there is no such thing as oh he was just a he was a vigilante he was doing us all a favor let's let him free

no that's not what will happen here he's dangerous and obviously you know he has been receiving psychiatric treatment whilst in prison but it does seem that it's quite frequently interrupted he did a spell at parkhurst on the Isle of Wight and he was treated by a psychiatrist called Dr. Bob Johnson. And after three years, Robert was reportedly making progress. Dr. Johnson even claimed that Maudsley was three quarters of the way through removing the aggression and latent violence that made Maudsley a violent and dangerous inmate.

But then, without warning, the treatment was cut off and Maudsley was moved back to Wakefield. His brother Paul was quoted in interviews saying, every time they see him making a little progress, they throw a spanner in the works. He spent time in Woodhill Prison and there he was getting on well with the staff. He was even playing chess with them. He had access to books and music and television. Now they just put him back in the cage at Wakefield. His troubles started because he got locked up as a kid. All they do when they put him back in the cage at Wakefield. His troubles started because he got locked up as a kid. All they do when they put him back there is bring all that trauma back to him. Maudsley agrees, stating,

All I have to look forward to is further mental breakdown and possible suicide. In many ways, I think this is what the authorities hope for. That way, the problem of Robert John Maudsley can be easily and swiftly resolved. I completely understand, like, him being locked up like this is not what is best for Robert Maudsley. But then, it's like we've talked about, we have to think about what's best for everybody else as well. The other prisoners, the other guards. It's the lesser of two evils, isn't it?

Exactly. The other option is him being back in the general population of the prison, where he'll kill people. He's proven that he will kill people. So even when he was, you know, showing a bit of kill people so even when he was you know showing a bit of progress at wood hill and he was getting on with the staff who knew what one day might trigger him to then turn around and kill somebody he's proven himself to be that way and also the idea that the authorities were purposefully holding back his progress i don't think that's real i

think the three years he spent at parkhurst with Dr. Johnson, he was starting to show progress. I don't think that was suddenly cut off because the authorities decided, oh, he's making too much progress, let's kill this. That is funding cuts all day long. That is funding cuts to our prison system, mental health care in our prison systems. That's why Dr. Johnson's treatment that was obviously showing some progress for Maudsley was cut. This isn't some sinister and insidious way of the authorities to sabotage Robert Maudsley's progress. This is funding cuts. And I think that's tragic. When he calls himself the Robert Maudsley problem, like I can completely understand why there is no solution to it. To be honest, I think the best thing they can come up with is keeping in the Perspex box. I mean, I have no other solutions apart from put some more money into mental health care

in our prison systems. That would be the other solution. But given the parameters within which we have to work, sadly, solitary confinement is probably the only answer. So let's have a quick thank you to our Patreons this week. We have Jane Briggs, Lindsay Solomon and Catherine Jennings. Thank you very much, guys. And social media moment of the week.

We loved it. Thank you guys so much for all of the comments and the notes you posted about the Oscar Pistorius case. It really is such an infuriating case. But Hannah Samaltis posted on the Facebook group a diagram of what Oscar said happened. It's really, really interesting because it's got all the bedroom layouts, everything, with little annotations about his, you know, story. And it really prompted some great debates

in the comments, which we love reading and being a part of. Thanks very much. Please follow us on all the social medias at RedHandedThePod, and if you have time, hop on over to iTunes, and I think you're supposed to call it Apple Podcasts now. But anyway, that one and leave us a five-star review.

If you've got any spare change lying around, head on over to www.patreon.com slash redhanded and maybe think about donating some of that to us because we'd love it. I will see you next week where we will be covering the very bloody and very, very, i don't even know very very case of richard trenton chase also known as the vampire of sacramento it's finally happening

we're doing it yeah get hyped tune in next time but it's there's going to be a lot of blood not for the faint of heart so So be warned. Definitely. See you then. Bye. Bye. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to light some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher

Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today. He was hip-hop's biggest mogul, the man who redefined fame, fortune,

and the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Sean Diddy Combs. Diddy built an empire and lived a life most people only dream about. Everybody know ain't no party like a Diddy party, so. Yeah, that's what's up.

But just as quickly as his empire rose, it came crashing down. Today I'm announcing the unsealing of a three-count indictment, charging Sean Combs with racketeering conspiracy, sex trafficking, interstate transportation for prostitution. I was f***ed up. I hit rock bottom, but I made no excuses. I'm disgusted. I'm so sorry. Until you're wearing an orange jumpsuit, it's not real. Now it's real. From his meteoric rise to his shocking fall from grace, from law and crime, this is The Rise and Fall of Diddy. Listen to The Rise and Fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery+.