RedHanded - Episode 344 - Twin Flames Universe (ft. Help I Sexted My Boss)

Episode Date: April 18, 2024

Note: The video version of this podcast can be watched in full on our YouTube channel! Available from the 18th of April.Join RedHanded and Help I Sexted My Boss for an extra-special crossover, where true crime meets modern-day dilemmas, all over a glass of Gin & Dubonnet at the Sexted studio!First, Hannah and Suruthi regale William and Jordan about all things cults, before diving into the increasingly bonkers world of the Twin Flames Universe. And then, the tables are turned, as H&S help the boys solve their listeners’ unique problems – from how to leave a party, to whether or not to discuss your herculean sexual exploits with your mum.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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We are your usual hosts of Right Handed. But we've got a surprise. Because in today's episode, as the title might suggest, we are of course talking about the cult that is the Twin Flames universe. And it is all sorts of batshit crazy. But Hannah and I have been joined by some very special podcast friends. We have. One of them used to be on the BBC. We went over to Clerkenwell and met up with Jordan North, of all people, and his friend, William Hanson, who's not only an etiquette coach.

There are royal connections abound. So yeah, we had a really, really great time. If you don't know who they are, don't worry. They basically do the hit British podcast, Help I Sexted My Boss. It is absolutely huge in this country. And so we were super, super excited to do this collab with them. And yeah, hopefully we all learn something new about cults and you guys get to discover a brand new podcast

that you will also love. It's the full audio recording of our episode. But if you would like to take it up a notch, you can head on over to the red-handed YouTube and watch the entire episode in video format because they do that and it was great. So yeah, check it out. Twin Flames Universe with Help I Sexted My Boss, aka Help I Sexted Red-Handed, even though I wanted to call it Help I Murdered Red-Handed.

Check it out. YouTube video also out now. Hello and welcome to this very special episode where we're linking up Help I Sexed My Boss with Red Handed, two podcasts that are united. We're William and Jordan from Help I Sexed My Boss. Hello to you. We're Hannah and Sruti from Red Handed. And welcome to our lovely studio. It is very lovely, do you know? We share one with loads of people. So whenever we come in, everyone's on plug shit and it's just a nightmare but this is lovely no get your own and we're working on it yeah okay we should start as well by saying sorry that i'm late we were thought the crime that we were going to be solving today the mystery of the disappearance of jordan north um which would have worked with

the vibe william's very used to it also i should apologize for moving this back four times is it now we've changed absolutely fine we are excited to be here we're particularly enjoying all of the real plants that you guys have well thank you so much we were explaining there's a certain demographic of our audience that hated our fake plants yes they are correct but yeah that's a that's a snake plant there was it a spider plant uh yeah snake and i've got one of them at home and i've killed it because okay can i just say when tony our plant gay delivered that he said they are indestructible that's what i was gonna say uh well the fact you killed it gives me what did you do to it i think

i've over watered it because they're not they're not really meant gives me great hope. What did you do to it? Burn it? I think I've over-watered it. Because they're not really meant to be watered. How often did you water? Every week. That's what he said for us to do. How much, though? Just like a jug. A jug?

Yeah, I'm not very good. How big are your jugs? Like a milk jug? An ironing jug? A chamber pot? One of those plastic ones you use for ironing. A goggle jug. Oh, right, okay. Yeah.

It's like a Pyrex one, but same set, but plastic. Plastic Pyrex, lovely. Yeah, anyway. Yeah. Yes. And I've just got back off a stag do, but anyway. Oh, no. I want to hear about the stag do.

Are you allowed to talk about it? No. It was very good. We all had a lovely time. Good. And that's the story. Girls. Do you like girls?

How would you identify? Whatever you like. Ma'am. Madam. Madam. Madam. Madam. Madam.

Tell us what is Red Handed about? Well, we are a true crime podcast hosted by the two of us. We don't know how long we've been running we were trying to figure that out before we started recording and it's somewhere between six and 13 years we don't know oh wow wow because i always used to say seven years but then i feel like i was saying seven years for about four years so i don't know maybe it's like when you get to a certain age and you've just been that age for a really long time yeah still 27 yeah so it's been jordan and his media age yeah so red-handed has been running for some length of time and we are a weekly true crime podcast and

every single week we do a different case on the show um and we don't stick to british cases just because we are british we go all over the world and we've done quite the range we've done things from kind of uh voodoo murders to alleged child sacrifice cases to incest hillbilly sex cults we've done a few of those um we've done political assassinations we've done kind of current cases so we did cover lucy letby for example and also um celebrity sickos we've done jimmy saville and ian watkins not the guy from steps no the other one from lost profits famously just to be clear um and we also do shorthand which is on tuesdays which is an amazon exclusive um about stuff that we think is interesting like when nasa wanked off a dolphin i'm sorry nasa wanked off a dolphin don't you know about episode

no i don't well episode one of shorthand, produced by Red Handed, will tell you all about it, exclusive on Amazon Music. That sounds like a dilemma we'd get sent. Should I wank off a dolphin? Help, I wanked off a dolphin. That's the episode title. There are actually some pretty good documentaries out there. On that topic.

On that topic. But you should listen to our Shorthand first, and then go watch the documentaries. Nothing will be as good as that, no. And right you can you explain for red-handed listeners who found their way here what what you're not sex sex podcasters yes i will say for audio only listeners directly in my eyeline is um a cloner willy kit yeah um and it says vibrating at the bottom yes um just in case anyone was worried that it didn't vibrate it does this is brilliant yeah um yeah we're not a sex podcast we are a podcast that likes to help people with modern day problems and dilemmas

and over the years seven years now is it no six and a bit six and a bit years that we've been doing it we have had many different problems and dilemmas one included a cloner willie yes it was a daughter was house sitting for her parents who went on holiday looked under the parents bed already a red flag found a shoebox found the dildo had a nice nice time. Weird. Because it's your parent. Like, mm. And then thought, that's phenomenal. Had a great time with it. Thought, I'll buy one of those.

Look for a brand name. And on it, it said, Cloner Willie. And it was cloned. And it was obviously cloned from her. Dad. Dad. I don't think you should share those things things that i don't think you should either we've ever covered i think no is that a true crime it's a crime i feel violated by it yeah

is that incest yes i'm gonna say it's as close as you need to get yeah i'd say not that you need to get no you need to get just distress no if you're incest curious that's as close as maybe you should get wow i don't know i didn't know that was a phrase anyway away from cloner willie we also do uh help people with their problems at lemon such as uh if they've had problems with their diplomatic parking bay at my commission we do property i like to say that one just for a bit of light and shade um so it's not all cloner willers and sex because we're not a sex podcast yeah we get bits like who should pay for the bill and what did we have recently that we both really liked i was like oh this was a good one oh yes we had a very good one recently about if you split up with whoever you're dating

and there are photos of them on your profile, do you delete? Do you archive? Do you leave them there? Particularly, probably it's more, I guess it becomes more of an issue when you then have someone else that you're dating. If you're single, it's probably less of a taboo. What was the answer? Well, I said just archive.

But equally, I don't think you necessarily, if you feel you need to do something, it's better to archive it rather than delete it. Certainly if you've got the memory. But also, they're part of your past. So you can't rewrite history, as I'm sure you know full well on your podcast. You know, what happened, happened.

Yeah, that's why we have a laptop, so we don't get it wrong. Yes, well done. We don't have laptops. yes well done we don't have laptops so should we explain how this episode's going to work then yes and whilst you do that would you like a gin and debonair i've been waiting so this is the drink that we drink yes i'll let you set this one up on our podcast um we always start with a gin and debonair we did it on our very first ever pilot and uh the idea was we were going to bring in different cocktails every week.

Right. And William started us with a gin and a bonnet because it was the Queen Mother's favourite drink and the late Queen's favourite drink. So we get pretty squiffy on it. And it gets, it's really strong. It looks it. I'm dreading it after a stag do, to be fair. The one we were going to do like a Green Hulk cocktail as well, which is half a lager, half a WKD.

Nice. Yeah, from Uni Days. Thank you so much. There you go. We also have a signature red-handed cocktail. We do, which does come from the Uni Days, actually. Yeah, not nearly as refined as this. No, it is not.

What's yours? I think if and when we do a follow-up to this, we shall have to host you guys. Yes. And give you our signature drink. What's the spiritual? The signature drink of the spooky bitches, as our followers call themselves.

They call themselves that. We don't call them that. I call them sausage. Oh, dear. Yeah. That's nice. I like being called sausage. That sounds weird.

It is, of course course a turbo wine which is white wine or prosecco if you're feeling fancy mixed with energy drink oh wow okay cheers to the spooky bitches and the gene divas the spooky bitches and the gene divas oh you know what that's nicer than I thought it was going to be it's really nice but it's lethal it gets you really

squiffy what we don't have today is a slice of lemon or orange a little bit of a garnish I was going to say but I didn't want to

be rude but it's it's nice obviously drink responsibly it's very very lethal I'm going to get hammered

yes oh you'll fit right in can we do our bit going to get hammered. Yes. Oh, you'll fit right in. Can we do our bit before we get hammered, please? So in the first half of the episode, you're going to treat William and I. What does it mean, William? No, William and I. William and me.

William and me to what you usually get up to in your podcast. Did you know that? Yes. It's because if you take out the other name, it still makes sense. So if you're like treat william and i but you wouldn't say treat i too you would say treat me too so it would be william and me correct thank you not that you needed that but i'm just backing you up yes um yeah i'm feeling that we are more similar and you and Hannah. Yeah, I mean, I don't mean that rudely, Hannah. I'm just, comparatively, there is still a bit of a gap.

You're more William, you're more Jordan. And Nets, you're going to show us what you do in your podcast, and then in the second half, the tables are turned, and we're going to show you what we do in Help I Sex With My Boss. Wonderful. Right, cheers. Cheers. No clinking, apparently it's common. No, it Wonderful. Right. Cheers. Cheers. No clinking.

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now by joining Wondery Plus. So we know that you guys are not a sex podcast. We know that you just deal with topics that are sexual in nature. So when we talked about this collaboration between Sexted and Red Handed, we put our thinking caps on and we were like, what is the topic that best highlights what we both do oh so well? And we ended up with the idea that it had to be cults. Because they certainly fuck people up up which is our speciality okay and it almost always gets very sexual which although you're not a sex podcast is kind of sometimes your speciality yeah there is always that on the line you know yeah it always goes there so they'll use sex to lure people in and also things that are missing from that would-be cult member's life be it meaning family love status or a higher purpose because everyone's looking for something yeah and i think

one of the misunderstandings about cults actually that we have realized after doing years of this is people often think that the people who end up in cults are like kind of like have nothing else going on they are vulnerable people but that they're sort of dragged in just for the body count no no no like cult leaders because they're so narcissistic and because they want the cult to work, they want to go after people that have something to offer. They want to go after people who are smart, who are capable, who are able to deliver. And that's actually why people who are very capable end up in cults. Because like Hannah said, they're looking for a higher purpose and they feel like it's missing from their lives. And nobody joins a cult on purpose.

Nobody knows they're doing it. they're just looking for something else like veganism are you anti-vegan desperate no i don't know it just it just goes goes along with their the sort of new age thinking it does and it's also something we've learned about cults is the veganism part actually does enter it quite a lot because to deprive people of protein means that they're not able to think very clearly. So that's why cults often feed their members just like gruel and stuff like that, because the more broken down you are, the less protein you have in your diet, the less like resistant you are or the less critical thinking you're likely to do. It sounds like boarding school. A touch. Sounds like a few places I've worked.

That's so interesting. No, there's a lot. Cult leaders are typically, if you look at their sort of psychological profile, they'll be very deeply narcissistic. I mean, that's not a shock to anybody. And basically, typically what they want is to kind of feel like gods on earth, right?

They have their following. It's very separated from mainstream culture. They've got them typically on a compound or gathered somewhere. And these people are completely beholden to them. One of the things with cults is like you shouldn't get your information from anyone else except the cult leader. Like we're talking that level of sort of, you know, psychopathology when it comes to cults. And that's exactly what's going on in the case that we've picked to talk about today. Can I ask, do cult leaders know they're starting a cult?

Do they say I'm going to start a cult or? It's a good question. Generally not. Generally, you'll see them and the majority that we see and have covered on Red Handed do start off as Christian ministers. And then particularly in the States as like evangelical ministers. And then they're like, oh, I quite like this. Everyone's listening to what I'm saying. And then tithing is a very Christian thing.

You're supposed to give 20 depending on which denominational christian you are so it's already built in within the doctrine um so it gets a bit easy to be like i know i said 20 but actually everything you've ever owned has to come straight in yeah i think one of the things we find with cults is like hannah said it's easier to start the cult based on some understanding that people already have. So if it's an existing religion, it's easy, you're asking a smaller leap of people to make, rather than something completely brand new. Another age of like cults that we saw, especially in the sort of 70s and 80s, was also this kind of Eastern mysticism. So people in the West were getting very jaded with Christianity and what was going on here. So then you had some of these cult leaders who would like take a little trip to India and then they'd come back and they'd be like, I found the answers.

It is in Eastern mysticism. And that gave people this feeling of, oh, well, maybe this will be the answer to why I feel there's a missing purpose in my life, etc, etc. Cast off your material possessions and give them to me. Yes. Don't throw them away and give them to me yes don't throw them away give them to me yeah so yeah like hannah said at the start it's kind of the cult is always there to exploit people it will be for slave labor or for sex or for money or something but the people in the cult are always being exploited by this highly narcissistic psychopathic leader that sits at the front of it so yeah we've got a very interesting case, but we're going to ask you some questions.

So this is to understand how much you guys already know about cults. So in 2019, which celebrity started their own cult on a private island off the coast of Croatia? Oh, I interviewed him. I did. I believe you Danny from McFly no yeah

Danny from 30 seconds to McFly what's he called now I interviewed him not long ago not the one that you not

Halsey no it wasn't Youngblood it wasn't Youngblood it wasn't Youngblood that sounds like a cult name it does it was quite a famous actor as well yes played the It wasn't Youngblood. It wasn't Youngblood. That sounds like a cult name, though, doesn't it? It does, yeah. It was quite a famous actor as well.

Yes. He was Joker. Yes. And Dallas Buyers Club. Yes. Don't tell me. Joel Jed... Jedwood.

You're so close. It's not Jedwood. Oh, why can't I look at it? No, it's not. Go on, tell us. Oh, don't. It's going to bug me. It's a very American first name.

What's it begin with? J. You're right. You're so close. Oh, what's it called? Gerard. So, I'm going to give it to you. That's so close.

It's Gerard Leto. Gerard Leto. That's going to bug me. Yes. Sorry. So, yes, it is true. If you give it but a quick Google, you will see that there is a lot of pictures of this island i think they've called it mars island the private island off the coast of croatia where they are

and to be clear because you know we don't want to get anybody sued or anything jared leto has never officially commented on this group he's never acknowledged it he's never said anything but he's definitely there and um not sure how that stands up legally there's pictures um so the group just as jesus yes dressed as jesus he does look a bit biblical and he's really leaning into it so the group call themselves the echelon okay the group saying they're a cult but looks like a cult in our episode about cults but there are like hannah said there's plenty of pictures of jarrod leto on this island dressed very much like jesus christ superstar

while hordes of people also wearing long white robes are swooning over him that's the only way to describe it like they're trying desperately to touch him it's all very weird and if you actually check out the hashtag hashtag mars island there is an official post on there with the caption, quote, yes, this is a cult. So, don't know. Don't know. Okay. Maybe it's a bit too on the nose. There are people on the internet who say this is just a publicity stunt.

And maybe that's true. But do the people who are there know that? I don't know. Oh. I don't know if they know they're part of a publicity stunt. We went to Benidorm last year for an episode. Maybe next year we could go to Mars Island. Mars Island.

Should we do a live recording? Because you know old Jared. If you'd have said to me, of all the people you've ever interviewed, who do you think would start a cult, it probably would have been him. Oh, that's good to know. Okay. Maybe we should infiltrate. Maybe we should go and pretend to join the cult yes and

then make a little no because that's how they get you and then you start believing it i don't think i would if i'm we can deprogram them i wouldn't fall for this cult business if anyone's joining a cult it's not me or william no it's you two basically it's what we mean i'm just looking for a higher purpose yes we'll be there we are shaved dads right next question charles manson was the infamous leader of the manson family um but a member of which wildly successful 60s band briefly fell in with the Manson family in 68. I know this as well. Was it one of the Nolans?

No. No? Good guess, though. Was this the Kool-Aid one? No, that's Jonestown. And it was Flavor Aid, but go on. It was a female, was it? No, I was thinking...

A 60s... What nationality? Americans. I don't know. I thought it was... I was going to say Stevie Nicks, but that wasn't Stevie Nicks and that was the 70s and 80s.

It's a man. We'll give you that clue. Can you sing one of their tunes? Hummets? Turn off. I can... It's like they're here. Tony Christie?

Yes, imagine. Is this the way to call to real love? I'm a realist. I was trying to be funny. Oh, I see. It was a cult joke, guys. You did a joke. You did a joke.

Cheers. You could at least pretend to laugh. Okay, good vibrations. That's what I asked Oh yes I've seen the film Beach Boys Yeah

What's he called? Oh Tony Wilson No Yes I thought you said Tony But you didn't I said Tony Wilson It was Dennis Wilson

Dennis Wilson Dennis Wilson The drummer Have you seen that film? Oh no it wasn't the drummer I'm thinking of the main guy But anyway Okay no It was the drummer Yeah wow and he uh met manson in 68 and then moved in with him

and the family for a bit and then they all got gonorrhea oh to be fair it's something like freshers week at uni it's very like freshers at uni you can cut this if you think it's gross but someone um a friend of mine um received a text the other day um from a lady of questionable affection that said i've got the gone gone you should get tested gone gone brilliant wow why are we infantilizing gonorrhea what are we going to do oh wow he let them move into his like million dollar house and they all just yeah got the gong on and um taking loads of drugs and then he couldn't get them out so he just left and then i think manson showed up at a different house with a bullet with his name engraved with dennis written

on it as like a threat yeah yeah bad news bad news um yes you'd never think it would you no all right question three final question chance for glory joaquin phoenix river phoenix and rose mcgowan were all born into and raised in which cult it had a really weird name but i can't remember it what was it it's very if you don't know it's very hard to you're not going to guess this one should we just tell you yes so the cult was called the children of god cult and hannah and i have been doing this as we said for an unspecified number of many years and we've done a lot of cults in that time and this is probably the most messed up cult to ever have existed in what way we we debated this right we don't want to bring the whole vibe down on sexted um so

hannah is currently actually researching and writing our yeah imminent episode that is i believe going out next week the week after this is released on our on red handed but how much do you really want to know because people like tell me i want to know but i'm like do you really want to know on a scale of normal to cloner willie it's it's part of it's way beyond kind of quite i mean in a similar in a similar vein it's it's really really horrible stuff we can tell you what flirty fishing is the flirty fishing side of it i wouldn't say it's fun but it's less damaging yeah so hookers for christ is what yes hookers for christ so basically what the cult did was very purposefully attract in very attractive young people men and women and then they would use them to go out onto the streets and basically and like clubs and bars and whatever and

lure in potential new recruits they would also take four-room dancing lessons specifically to go into upper upper echelons of society yeah and yes strictly with a different time so yeah it was it was basically yeah hook us for christ it was basically the the cult being like your bait go do some flirty fishing and they just procreate will not procreate but attempt to procreate oh yes and they if they work because that's how you grow a cult and they just procreate will not procreate but attempt to procreate oh yes and they if they work because that's how you grow a cult and they called them jesus babies because jesus has used the man as a tool to deliver the baby to the cult so they could grow their numbers yes okay yeah well it all goes on this is why i just keep myself to myself if anyone comes up to you and tries to ballroom dance with you, Jordan.

Don't do it. Because genuinely, I could so, and we all know it, and you know it, I could so easily be tied into a cold corner. You know I could easily. Jordan can't say no to people. Yeah. So you only would have to be a flirty fish or something and start sort of just and jordan would just say yes to go along with it just to be nice because he is lovely people yes yeah

he hates confrontation so he wouldn't say no this is a load of hokum go away he would be like all right yeah sounds nice yeah that's literally what i'd yeah i'd be a cult stream oh no don't tell them oh god this is yeah you've told them now this is why i just go home and watch telly how That's literally what I'd... Yeah, I'd be a cult stream. Oh, no, don't tell them. Shh. Oh, God, this is scary. You've told them now. This is why I just go home and watch telly. How familiar are you with the concept of a twin flame? Is William my twin flame?

I don't even know what a twin flame is, but I think I know I'm not. As we're holding hands, tell us what it is. It's the idea that you're one soul in two separate bodies and then you are drawn to each other throughout your life. Yeah. Oh, well, that's fine. For the ultimate harmonious union. Jordan's my twin arsehole.

That was probably more... That's more what I'd say. Okay, twin flame sounds quite nice. So you're sharing a soul and you can't possibly be apart and you find each other, but somehow it is someone in the same country as you and not in a village in Eritrea. Yeah. Oh, okay. So is it... Because we're just friends i want to put that like yeah twin flame is sexual yeah it is yeah oh yeah i wanted to let you guys you know

i didn't want to i didn't want to block the love that was going on here um so yeah basically the the idea is if you meet your twin flame, you will supposedly feel an incredibly intense connection to this person. Because you are essentially two halves of the same whole. You share a soul. And this twin flame would be your perfect lover and would be the person that would change the entire course of your life forever. Well, Jordan has pretty much changed my life. So maybe there's something in this you do have to do the sex stuff though that's quite a bit big that's a big part of it yes

we went to Monaco together once and shared a bed refusing to hold his hand not even looking didn't we darling you got the sex kit out the box, because he was in a posh hotel and he had a sex kit. And I was like, yeah. Once, Saru and I were on holiday in Romania in a very haunted feeling Airbnb. And we had separate bedrooms. But we were convinced that we were just going to wake up and see someone standing in the doorway. So we'd be like, should we just sleep in here? Yeah, fair enough.

Let's just go downstairs and make tea together and then come back and go to bed together. I'm not sleeping in my separate room. No, jordan's reluctance to hold your hand william he put his hand down to me first now i'm feeling some negative vibes like you but what i do have to say that doesn't mean he's not your twin flame in fact he's protesting too much that he is because twin flames are not the same thing as soulmates now soulmates is obviously a term we're more familiar with in the mainstream now it might sound a bit arbitrary the fact that i'm saying twin flames and soulmates are different but it actually becomes a really really important part of how this cult managed to run their con like it's a very important distinction between

the two of them that we're going to come back to and the cut we're talking about today is called the twin flames universe as people as human beings were fascinated by sex were fascinated by relationships all of that good stuff but i also think it's probably not a reach to say that maybe a lot of people have never been lonelier than they've ever been today. So that idea that a perfect person exists for you somewhere out there and you just need to find them and then everything will be great, makes sense as to why there is this huge spike in interest. And that's exactly what the two main characters at the heart of our story today knew. And they are called Jeff and Shalia shalia divine except they're not they're not really um their real names are jeff ian and megan plant but for the purposes of this story we shall be calling them jeff and shalia divine and they got together in 2013 so megan i don't like calling them by

their chosen names. So we're going to stick with Megan and Jeff. No, because now it's going to be confusing. Shalia Devine. So she was a spiritual freewheeler doing readings and healings for people online. Always a red flag. And Jeff was even worse because he was a business school graduate, which is even more boring than being a spiritual healer online.

And he just wanted to be really really rich and they quickly realized that promising to cure people's cancer with their spiritual mumbo jumbo was not going to pan out if people didn't get better then nobody was going to keep paying them so instead they moved on to what we all want which is love and they started what they called the tfu which is is the Twin Flames Universe. Yeah. So this is where we're getting into that cultish behavior. So basically they start making YouTube videos telling everybody about Twin Flames. So educating the wider public about what Twin Flames are and also telling everybody that they are each other's Twin Flames. And they also say in a lot of their videos that they have been in harmonious union for years now in case you're wondering what that is it's basically the equivalent of like having reached enlightenment in this particular area you having met your twin flame and coexisting with

them in harmonious union is the equivalent of having reached enlightenment it is the highest form of like being that you can exist in. And they're like, we've done it. And because they've ascended to this level, they say that they are now blessed with the gifts of recognizing your twin flames and also being able to confirm it. I'm Jake Warren.

And in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery Plus In season two I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met

But a couple of years ago I came across a social media post by a person named Loti It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him.

This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me, and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding, and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. or Spotify. the harvard plan a special series from the boston globe and wnyc's on the media to listen subscribe

to on the media wherever you get your podcasts so the key thing is that they make it very clear that you cannot find your twin flame without their help it's quite clever and it's really whoever you turn up with going i think jordan is my twin flame they're just gonna go we'll take your money yes or they're gonna go we found one for you here's one i prepared earlier or would they say this isn't what stick with us and we'll find them yes exactly that typically people didn't come with somebody that they thought was their twin flame the people who were drawn to this were people who were lonely who hadn't met somebody yet and they were like jeff and shalira they're saying we'll help you identify and find your twin flame so people come there solo hoping that they will help them match make and this is where that key difference jordan that you were interested in

comes in that difference between a twin flame connection and a soulmate connection and this is very important because it comes in very handy for the divines. The soulmate is someone who you're naturally compatible with, that you get on well. There's chemistry. You're happy. You're fulfilled.

Definitely fucking each other. It's easy. But a twin flame, you don't necessarily have a guaranteed smooth connection. They call them blocks. So just because you're in a harmonious union doesn't mean you never fight

or get a restraining order, which is a key plot point oh my god yeah because the the uh connection is so intense your twin flame will bring up all of the issues that you need to deal with and they do this thing called mirror work right so if you're like oh i'm i'm upset because this person has rejected me what you would do in the twin flames universe is say i'm upset because i have rejected myself and then you look inward and then clean out your soul that way which is not a million miles away from stuff that a therapist we're gonna make you guys do the mirror exercise later don't worry about it lovely get the loop so the key thing is that the connection with your twin flame is going to be difficult that's part of the whole problem and to make it work you have to do major personal healing but you have to make it work because once you've done that and reached harmonious union,

it's the very best love out there in the universe. And these two people are going to be able to give it to you. And you will never, ever find anyone better because it just doesn't exist. Yeah. How harmonious are your unions currently? We're just friends. I mean, I have a husband. It's fairly harmonious.

From time to time, we have our flare-ups. But which couple doesn't? Yeah. So, right. So, it's not a soulmate. It's deeper than a soulmate. Yeah. They're saying it's better than a soulmate.

It's like a spicy soulmate. Yeah. And when you meet this person, it like phenomenally but it's not the right word yeah it's just next level love but not necessarily easy so what they're saying is if you meet your soulmate it will be easy it'll be like you'll be compatible you'll get on great you'll have you know minimal problems no more than an ordinary couple does but you're settling for less if you settle for your soulmate because you're taking the easy road what you want to do is meet your twin flame who is essentially your other half of your soul but with that person be warned it's going to be a much rougher road

it's going to be really challenging they're going to bring up all this stuff in you that you have to deal with but if you deal with it then you will reach a higher level of being which is this harmonious union and as you can see already that's becoming very convenient for them because crucially with the twin flame um sometimes you can seem like a really unlikely pair so there might be for example a large age gap between these twin flames there might be big differences in backgrounds or a total lack of any sort of physical attraction but they are your person according to jeff and shalia now jeff and shalia if you watch any of their youtube um like videos they preach these points non-stop and they tell their followers if you don't like the person that we say is your twin flame, so what? They are your twin flame.

They aren't your soulmate. Twin flame relationships will be hard and you might not even like them, let alone love them. You might not even want to be anywhere near them, let alone have sex with them. But you have to find the inner strength, resilience and gratitude,

and these are quotes taken from them, to make it work. How very convenient. Yeah. It sounds a touch sort of, can I say this, rapey adjacent? Yes. Yes. A hundred percent.

It's very icky. It's very. It's like just being like you, William, don't care about any of your preferences, any of your attractions, anything that you want in a person. It's this person. And if you can't make it work with that person it's your fault not because we've i mean it would be funny if i was there they're like hello this is stephanie she's your twin flame regardless of whatever i'd be like well i've got one or two things and there's a lot of that and it's just basically mumbo jumbo they've made up yes yeah if we tell

you jordan that your twin flame is your colleague i'm not saying it's william a colleague and that person is like i don't like you please stop telling me that i'm your twin flame i don't know what you're talking about because the person they point you to may not be in the cult they could just be a random person they say is your twin flame. And you keep going up to that person saying, no, I really think we should be together. And that person's like, please leave me alone. Jeff and Shalira are basically telling them, do not take no for an answer. Oh, that's so bad.

So this is where we become ever more rapey adjacent. That's so bad. So essentially, they're teaching TFU students a lot about how to manipulate people, how to stalk people, and also just boundary crossing. Just never, ever, ever stopping. And all of those actions were widely celebrated by the cult because it showed a dedicated student of TFU trying hard to make their love work. Yeah. So showing up at someone's house in the middle of the night, leaving a photo album under their car. Fantastic.

Yes. That's just being a photo album under their car. Fantastic. Yes. That's just being a stalker. It is. But in the cult, it is. It's being someone who's really committed. Someone who's really committed to the cause. So they'll be heralded sort of amongst the rest of the students as being someone who's really look how dedicated this person is. You should all aspire to be as committed to making it work with your twin flame as Jordan is. And so you're

kind of getting positive reinforcement for doing something that is so terrible. So it gets very messed up in people's heads. So while their students' lives are very much falling apart because they're getting arrested, they're getting restraining orders set against them, all this kind of stuff. And in some cases, even moving across the country to move in and live with somebody that they do not know. And doing this based on nothing more than the word of their leaders. Now, Jeff and Shalia, while all this is going on, are enjoying their millions and millions and millions of dollars because by this point, they are absolutely raking it in. But how are they profiting off this scam?

I hear you scream. Yes. Yes, please. And they don't hide it either. Like one of the first YouTube videos, if you search them, which comes up is them in their $100,000 car. Oh, right. Would you say Porsche or Porsche, William?

Well, they're both vulgar. But I would say Porsche. You would say, I would say Porsche or Porsche, William? Well, they're both vulgar, but I would say Porsche. You would say, I would say Porsche as well. But I believe it is Porsche. Anyway, so how are they making money was the question. And the answer is the Twin Flame Ascension School. So now we're going to tell you how much money they were making off each person. So the pair started to sell online classes on how people could find their twin claim.

And those classes cost 222 angel number a month and then people were forced into signing up for a year at a time jeff and shalia they're running these classes they're charging all this money and you might be wondering like what are they actually teaching one thing that seems to be repeatedly shoved down everybody's throat and seems to be pretty much the only thing that they talk about quite a lot of the time is this mirror exercise. So for all of your problems, if you're ever having an issue with your twin flame, if you're ever having a problem like you get arrested and put in prison because you've been stalking your twin flame, do the mirror exercise.

And it goes like this. Basically, they tell you to say a sentence about a time that another person made you feel negatively for example i am blank at blank for blanking me so william do you want to give us an example of this how long have you got no i and does that have to be a negative yes it does have to be a negative yes so it's negative action, how it made you feel in the person. Oh, I am incensed that Jordan didn't read my message on WhatsApp. Okay. Oh, is it because I didn't follow you back on TikTok? Oh, yes, I'll do that.

I'll do that. I'll do that. I am going to do that. It's getting a bit petty now. I'm doing it. I'll do that. I'll do that. I am going to do that. It's getting a bit petty now. I'm doing it a second time. I am incensed that Jordan didn't follow me back on TikTok. Okay, good. Now we have to do the mirror exercise.

So, William, you need to say the sentence again, but reversing it and aiming it at yourself. Okay. I am cross that I did not follow myself back on TikTok, even though I don't think that's technically possible. Feel anything? Feel better? Oh, so much better.

Good. Unburdened. Unburdened. Yes. Good, good. Closer to your not twin flame? So much closer. I mean, I can't message him on TikTok, but I'm closer than that.

And apparently that exercise is all hundreds of people and that's what you paid for yes that that is 220 a month please well that's ridiculous it's a big part of it is it like a form of gaslighting no no i don't know what it is i feel like they're borrowing from like maybe some reframing ideas so yeah but it's like you're only going to be upset if someone calls you fat on instagram if you already think you're fat like you know what i mean that kind of okay so it's like it's i guess in some ways like it's not that somebody else is making you feel that way it's because you're making yourself feel that way but that's all they have that's all they have this is what

every single one of their followers just repeats endlessly it seems to be the only thing they've learned from the entire tfu student environment and then so if you find your twin flame within the program you're encouraged to post as many pictures as humanly possible on every form of social media um in these facebook groups that are hundreds of thousands of people big and then jeff and chile i can use that be like don't you want it all yeah you can have this and then uh those people who are posting they start getting classes for free and then it started to grow because people do want to be happy and people do want to be in love um so jeff and shalia started hosting regular online group sessions with hundreds of people joining over zoom and doing regular

meetups as well and slowly they took over their students' lives. Do you think a lot of cults thrived during lockdown? I was thinking about this this morning because it is very, because a lot of their classes happen on Zoom and it's all YouTube videos and stuff. It did feel very lockdowny. And I think that that is when we saw loneliness become the epidemic that it is now.

Because I think everyone's mental health was under a microscope for two years and we haven't really done anything about it um so i i wonder yeah because maybe instead of making banana bread you're like i actually want to ascend and then you end up in some tricky situations and you had a lot of time to think and do nothing well and that's for me personally the worst possible scenario it's always dangerous and yeah there's also that kind of underlying thing of like well what are you doing with this time to make yourself better like that self-help self-improvement which again they're really tapping into that well-being self-help um make yourself a better person heal like pseudo therapy stuff like all of even this mirror exercise it feels very

like they're they've hijacked it from somewhere else and they're co-opting it for their own purposes so yeah another very cultish thing that they start to do at this point is they start to tell all of their students and followers that they have to cut off any family and friends who might challenge the teachings of the cult jesus now this kind of isolation is really really important if you're going to have a cult if you're going to have a cult you can't allow your cult members to be getting um advice influence information um or allowing other people outside like externally to the cult to challenge what you're telling these people it has to be like a funnel of information that you're just feeding these people

and no one else is allowed to come near it. So they start telling everybody, if family members or friends or loved ones in your life start to say, oh, this sounds a bit weird. I really don't think that person is a good match for you. This sounds like a cult, cut them off because they're not your real family. They're not really people who love you.

We are that. And they start talking about're not your real family. They're not really people who love you. We are that. And they start talking about things like a soul family. So it's expanding beyond just that romantic partner. It's the cult wanting to take over in every possible way for their people's lives. It's also what Scientology do. If anyone is challenging your Scientological beliefs, you're an SP. They're a suppressive person. And here the phrase they use is anyone who challenges what the group is telling you is just trying to dull your vibration.

So they're holding you back. You don't want to have those people in your life. They're also not keeping a secret that they're making all of this money. I said they've got their Porsche or Porsche or whatever. And their enormous house with a water slide. And they're filming all of this, a real like camcorder cult situation,

showing it to all of their followers saying, you could have this. And the way you have more stuff and money is by not paying taxes. And who doesn't pay taxes? Religions. Exactly. Bingo.

I see. So Jeff had the bright idea to register an arm of his MLM as a religion, so as a tax dodge. And he called it the church of the union which means basically nothing like scientology doesn't really mean anything no bit of nothing it's the study of studying but jeff does what we were talking about at the start he he starts it as a church he starts to affiliate himself very strongly with um a christian aesthetic let's say

and then he starts to outright call himself jesus christ so he's like a european looking guy with long brown hair and blue eyes so he's saying that like and he says this like jesus the first jesus obviously middle eastern jewish guy he didn't actually look like this but i do i'm the second round so they're predicting me yeah and it's it's a big thing he has and it shows his sort of level of narcissism he's not just saying that he's somebody who has all the arts he's literally saying i am jesus christ and shalia she likes to say i'm banging the christ that's one of her favorite things to say how classy i mean you would die if you were

you would is if you really believed it it is quite a quite a brag isn't it if you really want to thought that that was true how much she really thinks it's true and how much jeff really thinks he's jesus i don't know they don't come across to me as delusional because i don't think you could successfully run the scam that they do if you were genuinely like completely delusional and out of your tree i think it's just part of the thing because he's like i can get away with it i can say i'm jesus and these people are believing it because one of the things in this is that anyone who rejects it because a few people in the cult like maybe he's going a bit far now maybe him saying he's literally jesus christ is a bit too big of a step for me

jeff and shalee would just say oh you've got a block you've got a block and you need to buy more classes to get rid of your block because if you don't believe i'm jesus then what are you even doing here so it kind of just whatever they say you can't argue with it there's always a dead end then in 2020 a vice article was released about t. And some of the members who had woken up to what was going on after the whole Jesus Christ revelation had gone to Vice and given interviews about what was really going on. And obviously, Jeff wasn't going to go down with a fight. He just turns around, sues Vice and calls everybody who left haters. That's his favorite thing to say. honestly after this it just

kind of gets weirder and weirder and you see this with cults they sort of start to devolve the the more power crazy the cult leader becomes they'll start to devolve it's very depressing the power of love welcome to everything we discuss wow thank you for educating us on cults you're all very welcome thank you for being such wonderful listeners well no thank you maybe we'll have some some listener letters about cults in this in this second part after these messages do i do a joke of the week no you don't do jokes and welcome back now it's time for red-handed to go sexted with questions and dilemmas from our gnd as our listeners um we have no idea what is coming up like you have no idea what

i'm about to read out um so we will start with this letter from joao dear william jordan and the red-handed crewed Crew, I'm friends with a lovely group of very classy middle-class people in their late 60s. I'm in my early 30s for your reference. Their manners are impeccable, or so I thought. We were all at a party together when my friends decided to leave. I followed suit, not wanting to stay alone. However, to my surprise, they did not look for the host to say goodbye. When I asked if we should do so, they said it was terrible manners to disrupt a host to bid farewell. The correct attitude would be just to exit the party and send a thank you note or text the day after. This was completely new to me. I've always been taught that it's impolite to

leave a party without thanking the host in person. What is the correct etiquette in this case? Should I adopt this advice and start doing Irish exits? Many thanks, Joao. I thought it was called a French exit. It's called both. Or a backdoor boogie. I call it the trapdoor. The trapdoor. Do you do it?

Oh yeah. Yeah, I do. Backdoor boogies, you just go out the back, you dance out. I read something the other day that if you do the Irish exit pretty consistently, you save like two years of your life. Yeah. Right. With all the friends that you lose along the way. I think at a dinner party, it's different if you're already a dinner party.

Oh yeah, I'm not going to get up on the table. Yeah. But at a party, I think it's perfectly fine. I wouldn't mind if someone did it to me. Yeah, I don't even send thank you notes. No. Oh, dear. Thank you for listening to this episode.

I do. I left them all to it most nights. I was like, well, I'm done now. You did it when we went to Benidorm. Yes. Trying to do it at the airport, but alas. What would you do? What's your advice personally wouldn't feel offended if somebody left my party without saying goodbye to me but i would feel compelled to say goodbye to them if i left their party but it depends on

how drunk i am yeah to be perfectly honest but they do take ages to say goodbye now don't they i think at a wedding you can't, where there's obviously comparatively more, you just need to say goodbye to the couple getting married and maybe the immediate parents of the couple getting married, presuming they are there and present. Other than that, that's fine.

You don't need to go around saying goodbye. But I would say from an etiquette point of view, you should say goodbye to the host and the co-host at a party. Okay. All right. And I'm surprised that Joao's friends who are older didn't know that. Shocking. It's not just the younger generation.

This is from John. Hello, everyone. I was in a work WhatsApp group chat full of filth and jokes, some so cringy they might even make members of the North Clan blush. But recently I've noticed the chat has been very quiet. Nobody has been replying to my messages, so last week I decided to investigate. It was only after looking at the group I realised what had happened. Everyone, bar myself and another, had left en masse on the same day,

a month before, and hadn't said anything. I was still messaging throughout that month, none the wiser, as no messages or alerts had come up saying everyone had left. was a bit hurt and embarrassed when i finally noticed and now have no idea how to approach the situation and it's been over a month so what's the etiquette for leaving a group chat should you give a reason before you leave so people know or is it acceptable to ditch as a big group without warning love you guys from john oh that's a very modern problem i think it depends on the group is what i'm going to say if it was like for a stag stags done now all the jokes post tag have been made when's the time to retire the group yeah when can you leave the group but if it's like a friend group that's just an ongoing one leaving's a bit yeah it's us does always look rude when it says so-and-so's left the group

doesn't it i think you don't leave the group you make another group excluding the people you don't want in the new one i think that's polite so we i i'm part well i was part of one called mates like m8s and now it's m12s because everyone's broken up with everyone else so we've had several iterations of the same group and the first the first one to get excluded was called jack so we do call it getting jacked um but yeah you archive the group and start a new one see i don't like archiving because i are am i gonna yeah i archive my mom so i can choose when i can read what she's saying oh wow and so if i see the little one yeah i'm like oh my god it's okay um so i don't tend to archive i'll just delete the chat oh i've got

like 12 archive that's very stressful what is archive you're just like like you're on you put it into a you put it into a separate bit where you don't get the notifications anymore. Oh, okay. But you do get a little, it tells you if there's one in the article. One, two, three. Yeah, yeah. I don't have any messages. I mean, I would say

to John here that it sounds like, it's so cringy they might even make members of the North clan blush. Are you missing anything, John? Does it really matter?

I say to a lot of people I don't do WhatsApp groups. No. So you should always do that if you can afford, because there's too many and they're very stressful. They are. And a lot of people I don't do WhatsApp groups No So you should always do that Because there's too many And they're very stressful They are And a lot of them

Could get you cancelled Yeah Yes Maybe that's why Everybody left Yeah Was everyone he was in a group With a public figure

We need to know more We need to know more It does sound a bit personal It does sound a bit personal Doesn't it So maybe the problem Is you John Yes

Yeah I think the fact That they all left On the same day does sound calculated. John, it's possibly something you've said. Just kind of learn from that experience.

Maybe it's an opportunity for growth for him. He can look back at the last comment he made and wonder why everybody left. I agree. And do the mirror exercise. Exactly, yes.

Maybe they've all gone to join a cult. This final one is from Alfie, dear William and Jordan and team. It was my birthday recently and to celebrate, my mum took me out for a wimpy lunch. Would you like to explain what that is, Jordan? A wimpy is a burger restaurant that was very big in the 80s and 90s. It was my mum and dad's first date. Was it?

They went to a wimpy. Nice. She asked if It was my mum and dad's first date, actually. They went to Wimpy. Nice. She asked if I did anything nice. There's still a few around. There was one in my hometown until, I want to say, 2013. Yeah. Right. I used to go when I was a kid.

Lovely. She asked if I did anything nice, and I decided it was the right time to tell her about my boyfriend. We got to the Wimpy, and my mum asked me while in the restaurant, have you had sex with him yet? Okay, that's a bit much. Obviously, I said yes, as you never lie to your mother. I then went into detail about our escapades,

and that he lasted three hours the last time we did the deed. That sounds horrible. That sounds absolutely awful. She then said to me, me and your dad don't even last 45 minutes, yet alone three hours. 45 minutes? This was followed by an in-depth discussion.

Is it wrong that I tell my mum about my sex life? Yes. And what would you do if your mum told you about theirs? Yours faithfully,

wrong use of yours faithfully. Alfie. But I mean, let's not worry about that too much. Oh my God. Wow. I mean, yeah, I mean, it sounds like you of yours faithfully alfie but i mean that's let's not worry about that too much oh my god wow i mean yeah i mean it sounds like you and your mom pretty comfortable with it alfie but i reckon

the majority of people would not enjoy discussing their sex life with no i don't think it's any of your parents business no what's possible what is there to be gained what is there to be gained by talking to your parents about sex and look it sounds like a same-sex relationship so it's not like you know your mom's probably gonna have a bit of advice yeah exactly you're right yeah right and i don't but she's doing something if at whatever age she is that she's got a son that's old enough to be talking to her about sex her and her partner still last 45 minutes it's quite a long time that's a long time yeah i mean my advice there is probably try to avoid talking about your sex life yes it's a bit weird i don't think your new partner would enjoy it no no no because at some point he might meet them and does he does he need to go in with

the knowledge that your mum knows about your sex life i think it's not really setting him up for success i think some things are best left kept private. I would agree. So stop it, Alfie. There we go. You've been told. Really good advice there. So there we go. That was Sexted and Red-Handed. Ying and Yang.

Thanks so much. Sex drive and cults. Thanks so much for coming on, guys. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you for having us. We've all sort of had each other. Had each other. There you go. And it's lasted almost three hours. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you for having us. We've all sort of had each other. Had each other. There you go.

And it's lasted almost three hours. Thank you so much. No, we don't get to do many collabs, especially with British shows, actually.

We don't have that many British pod connections. So it's been really nice to meet you both and thank you for having us. It's been lovely to

meet you and we'll see you on that island with Jared Beto. Exactly. For our group trip. Sexton and Redanded, everyone. Thanks, guys.

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