RedHanded - Episode 359 - Bad Brits: Featuring Wine & Crime

Episode Date: August 1, 2024

This week on RedHanded we’re joined by some new friends from across the pond - Lucy and Amanda aka Wine & Crime! Given our geographical and cultural differences we thought it would be fun to discuss some “Bad Brits”, as well as give our new mates a bit of insight into the British way of life.So tune in for the tale of Pottery Cottage, and the story of the “Teacup Poisoner”, two British true crime classics that might sound quaint, but are anything but.More Wine & Crime:https://wineandcrimepodcast.comhttps://www.instagram.com/wineandcrimepod/Exclusive bonus content:Wondery - Ad-free & ShortHandPatreon - Ad-free & Bonus EpisodesFollow us on social media:YouTubeTikTokInstagramXVisit our website:WebsiteSources available on redhandedpodcast.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hannah. I'm Saruti.

And welcome to, I wish I'd thought of a cleverer name red red wine drinking crime sure handed no we thought of the clever name years ago when we called it red handed and we were like is this the best we can come up with we were like yes let's just get on with it um so yes this is red handed obviously you know that you listen to the show every week, hopefully. But we do have a very special episode for you today because we've got some guests with us of the transatlantic kind. They're from America, the U.S. Don't everyone in Canada or Mexico get angry. They're from the U.S. We are here with Wine and Crime.

Does that mean I have to do a transatlantic accent for the rest of the day? No, please. I was practicing mine this morning, but I didn't pull it off, so I'm not going to do it. No, and I can't do accents. It's such a charming accent. To really nail it, you have to listen to

or watch a lot of Gilmore Girls. Emily Gilmore nails it. But ladies, you are not Emily Gilmore. Tell us who you are. Tell our listeners who you are. I'm Lucy. And I'm Amanda. And we are from a podcast called Wine and Crime,

where we discuss true crime and also some comedy, mostly about the foibles and blunders in our own lives is where we get the comedy from. But yeah, we're from the U S there's plenty of pickings. Perfect. Specifically Minnesota. We did come to Minnesota last time we were on tour in the U S.

We did. We did. We went to Minneapolis. We did a show there. Where did we do the show? Were you in Minneapolis or St. Paul? Minneapolis.

Thank God. I almost left. We had Creole food. Was there? I think it was one of the legs of the tour where it was like show plane, show plane, and it was like very club, not the club, no sleep. It was very that vibe. The food here is delicious.

Mama something. I don't know. Oh, Mama's House of Soul? That's the one. That's where we went. That's a block from my house. That's where we went. That's a block from my house. That's where we went. Mama Sheila's, you were so close to me.

And yet so far. Well, now we know. Now we know. We are very excited about this collab, though. Obviously, we've been doing Red Handed for a fair while. We're well aware of Wine and Crime. I think, you know, in the early days of Red Handed, we were very much like,

look at them, look at them doing live shows. What's happening? We need to do this. Yeah, it's just very nice. It's come full circle. And now here we are doing a collaboration and we don't normally drink on Red Handed. But today I hold in my hand what smells like a very strong alcoholic drink

made by my dear friend Hannah here. Yeah. And I'm scared. Enter Hannah's boring bar facts. I spent many, many moons sorrily working behind bars and I have some martini facts. One is never, ever, ever

supposed to shake a martini. Well, that's wild because this martini recipe that I have is shaken, not stirred like Bond, baby. But do they say not to shake it because it waters it down is that why they freak out about it yes because you're supposed to do it eight one way eight the other but like it's a potion quite it is the reason i even

lemming put shaken not stirred into james bond is to prove what a twat he is who james bond yeah oh well mission accomplished no so that's why everyone thinks it's not but i did shake these what a twat you know twat and james bond in the same sentence don't seem natural to me but they seem great to me in the book he's just a dickhead like he's just like a very arrogant and that's like the point he's making that he's so arrogant he thinks he can shake a martini. I see. Well, Hannah, that's your problem.

Don't read the book. Don't read the book. Don't watch the film. Just demand that your martinis be shaken, not stirred. Yes. I have. I have cheated. And not only have I shaken them, I've left the ice in because I want them to be cold

when we get there. Yeah, right. Do what you got to do. That is the motto of our show. Do what you got to do. That is that is the motto of our show. Do what you got to do. So I'm glad we've pulled it in quite so early. Now, yes, we don't normally drink when we're doing shows like when we're actually recording, like I said, but I am drinking it out of a lovely turbo wine glass that you might be able to see, which is our own merch. I love it. Because when we do live shows, Hannah and I do, of course, drink. Because, you know, there's a lot.

Show plane, show plane, show plane. And the drink of choice is, of course, a turbo wine, which is Prosecco mixed with Red Bull. What? That is wild. I'm sure your listeners are gone. That's turbo wine? Try it. Try it before anybody knows it.

Prosecco and Red Bull. It's like a mimosa. I'm definitely trying that. It is like a, it's like a trashy mimosa. A speedy, kind of meth-y mimosa. I'm going to write a series of books about a female spy who drinks turbo wine. Is it going to be Susie Q? Susie Q-anon.

Susie Q-anon. No. Which is my alias on the show. She's got shaking nuts stirred because she's got so much Red Bull. She'll go into a bar and she'll be like, I have a mimosa, but I have Red Bull and some orange juice. Mimosa sub Red Bull, please. Exactly. She's got a busy day, ladies.

I'm going to throw up. Well, that's a perfect segue into our little wine pairing today, which, as Hannah nailed, is a martini. This is a Vesper martini, obviously because of James Bond. That twat. And, you know, that's the only thing that the Brits are

famous for, so we just had to, like, throw you guys a bone. The word twat, or a martini. Yeah, that, that. The Vper martini is not for the faint of heart it contains a whopping four ounces of liquor plus a splash of if you're making it right lele blanc adding an actual wine element to this bad boy so lele blanc is a french aromatized wine which is basically just a white wine infused with fruits herbs and other botanicals at like it's like dealer's choice whatever the creator wants to experiment with they can infuse this white wine with whatever and then it just makes this like very aromatic little jolt that

you can add to a cocktail it's kind of like adding bitters you don't need much a little because of all of that like deep infusion of herbs and botanicals it's pretty strong so you wouldn't just like necessarily sit down and have a glass of the le blanc but some people drink malort in chicago so like what do you what do you know you know how you're supposed to whip this up and this can all be swapped based on preference you can make this with gin or vodka this recipe requires both but you can swap the dominant alcohol depending on your preference so if you are a gin leaning martini person then you would do three ounces of gin and one ounce of vodka if you're like me and you're a vodka leaning martini person

you would do three ounces of vodka and one ounce of gin then a half ounce of that lalais blanc pour it over ice into a shaker and shake that bitch up pour it out over a strainer into the glass of your choice but you know either a turbo wine glass as saruti has elegantly chosen always be right or you can be brave and do a martini glass which is like guaranteed to tip over and fall in your lap it's 10 a.m where we are i was gonna ask are you guys partaking or is it just us i'm martinis partaking in marijuana which is legal in our state. Is that not a thing for y'all? Do you have legal weed? No, we do not have legal weed. It is. How do you get your weed? Illegally. You do have drug dealers. We have those too. I have somebody who comes around and leaves little QR codes around my neighborhood.

And then. Okay. that's high tech. The well-meaning parents of my neighborhood go around and pull them off. But I get them before they pull them off. Do you have chapel roan in the UK? Yes, we do. Oh, thank God. We were starting to get scared. Yeah, no.

Yeah, and I'm also I also made myself a spot of tea nice in my titty mug perfect so we're all set we're all set we're all set thank you for holding down the alcohol fort for us though i mean i have a granola bar and some water i love that for you so as we discuss in the wine and crime camp of podcasting, we do thematic episodes. Every episode is a themed topic. And then we cover background in psychology pertaining to that topic, if applicable, and a couple of cases pertaining to that topic. So today we are sharing the topic of bad Brits. Yeah. ritz yeah and it sounds like lucy has some information to school our british counterparts

on about the the great land of britain okay oh bring it lucy i don't know if i'd say schooling yeah i'm gonna really set you up there for a quite a high bar yeah i do have some facts do you know what i'm not much of a martini drinker, but that's not bad. Do you know what? I will give it to you. Thank you. I do like a martini, but I like more of like a, like I wouldn't order a Vespa. That's quite aggressive. Like sometimes when I'm feeling a bit fruity, I might have a dirty martini, a very dirty martini. I love a dirty gray goose martini.

That's like a fave. Yeah. And I know it's a bit basic, but I do like an espresso martini. Just ruined my life and heart palpitations and not sleep for two days. I love an espresso martini. I do. And if I go to my favorite Thai restaurant in Kings Cross, I will have a lychee martini. They're good.

They are very good. Can I ask why you're so anti-espresso martini and yet you will drink Prosecco and Red Bull? I'm not anti-espresso martini. The espresso martini is anti-espresso martini and yet you will drink prosecco and red bull i'm not anti the espresso martini the espresso martini is anti me anti you got it okay i went through a spate of weddings last summer where espresso martini is always on the menu it seems like a great idea everyone's on the dance floor you're up to one everyone's having a great time next day violently ill dead yeah and i'm like that's never again but as soon as one comes out turbo wine would never do that to you it also does but um you know the adrenaline keeps you going with the turbo wine i feel like turbo wine would inspire like

not as much diarrhea as espresso martinis yeah and espresso martini is going to make you shit, especially if you're a smoker. If you're ripping a heater with an espresso martini, enjoy your night in the bathroom. And red-handed, welcome to what Wine and Crime is actually about,

our bowels. Diarrhea. Oh, great. It is one of my biggest diversions in life, talking about anything bowel-related. Saru does not do toilet chat.

No, I don't do toilet chat. She won't even say the word heart. That's all right. It's the great equalizer and we will try to avoid it for the remainder of our recording. GI issues. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives

can disappear in an instant. When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near L.A. in 1983, there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Laney Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to light some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors

that led to the disaster. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today. So guys, normally, obviously on Red Handed, it's just Hannah and I telling one story. But today we thought it would be fun, since there's four of us hanging out, that we would do a story swap. And as the ladies have already told you, it's on bad Brits. And we got loads of them. We have a story.

Wine and Crime have a story. And we're going to tell each other. And it's all about bad Brits, obviously. So I think Lucy is going to go first. Yeah. Well, before we get to the actual case that we prepared, I have some facts about Britain. I don't know if you're familiar with them. And then also this is part like interview because I have many questions because y'all are weird.

Oh! So first of all, British people drink between 100 and 160 million cups of tea every day. I believe it. Every day? And 98% of you add milk to it. That I like. I like milk in my tea. So my question is, why, what's with the tea?

Why do you like tea so much? My question is, why? Yeah. Because we love tea. Because we really wanted to fuck with the Chinese. That's the genuine answer. We imported quite literally all the tea in China and we're like,

would you rather have this lovely opium that you already have? And that's why. But we already loved it. Everyone just loves, fucking loves tea. But I do have to say, neither of us drink tea. Not English breakfast tea. Are you coffee drinkers? We're coffee drinkers. Yeah, so I'm not, not, I don't part tea. Not English breakfast tea. Are you coffee drinkers? We're coffee drinkers.

Yeah. So I'm not, I don't partake in the English breakfast Earl Grey tea situation. I will. This is the most British thing I've ever said in my life. I will accept a cup of tea if I think it's rude not to. I see. I can actually do you one better on the British tea scale. I will only drink a cup of tea if I'm having a cream tea. What's a cream tea? A cream tea. Oh, cream. So yeah, when you have a

scone, and then you have like, cream, like clotted cream and jam, and then you make a pot of tea. So if I like go out and I'm somewhere very quaint, because I don't just do it like day to day. I have to be somewhere. If I went to Devon and I was in a nice little cafe and I was like, oh, I want a scone because scones are fucking delicious. And it comes with a pot of tea. I'll drink the tea. Okay. Because you're feeling fancy. Yeah. Well, Hannah, to make you feel better, that might be the most British thing. It's also the most Midwestern thing because we have to say no like five times before saying yes to something because we feel like we're inconveniencing someone. I had an ex-boyfriend many moons ago who hated coconut, but I brought him to a friend's birthday dinner at her parents' house. And her mother had worked all day on this

exquisite coconut cake covered in coconut shavings and he was like a hulky dude like not like fat like built i i mean i used i don't know i don't know how i ever we were not compatible that's why we're not together anymore anyway so this like hulking man she's like oh i have to give him the biggest piece of the coconut cake. And I knew he hated coconut cake and I did not save him. I just let him sit there and begrudgingly eat every last bite on that plate, knowing that he fucking hated it. He probably wanted to kill himself in that moment. And he finished that cake because that's what you do in the Midwest.

That's what you do. You don't offend anyone. That's the truth. We'd even eat it if you're allergic to coconut just be like it's fine just somebody take me to hospital afterwards yep your throat's closing it's cool it's good this cake is delicious it was delicious okay here's my next question Can you please explain the difference once and for all between England, Britain and the UK? Because it's my understanding that the UK is honestly like just with like Scotland, Wales maybe. How interchangeable do you use these words? So the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is four countries within one country.

So that is England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. That's the United Kingdom. Yes. They are all apart from Northern Ireland, but I'm not going to get into Northern Irish politics. But that's why our passports say the United Kingdom and the Republic of Northern Ireland. No, what does it say? It says the Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. That's it.

That's what it says on the front of our passports. So that's a thing. Though it is confusing, I will admit, because Hannah and I went to Scotland a couple of years ago and we got the train there. Didn't take my passport. I'm like, I know it's a different country, but it's part of the UK.

I'm fine. Don't need my passport. Get to Scotland. We have a nice time in Scotland. On the way back, train strike galore because we love that. That's very British. Another British thing you guys can take to the bank. So we were like, fuck it.

Let's just book a flight and get the hell home. Book a flight, get to the airport. And the woman's like, where's your passport? And I was like, I haven't got my passport. I was like, why do I need a passport? And she was like, you need a passport to get on the flight, love. And I was like, oh, no. Oh, my God.

And I got on the train here and nobody asked me. I thought this was the, what was it? The kingdom of, the great British kingdom and Republic of Northern Ireland. And she was like, just stop crying. Get on the plane. Get on the plane. Go home. You're obviously not a terrorist.

This is so pathetic. Just go. And I was able to go home. So, yes. If someone is, anyone who is living in, well, born in, citizen of Northern Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland, they are British citizens and they can call themselves British. However, they will not, apart from the English. Yes, no one calls themselves British except the English. Yeah, because saying your English sounds quite nationalistic because of our imperialist past.

So someone from Scotland would say I'm Scottish a Welsh person would say they're Welsh yes and then yes my boyfriend is Welsh and he my boyfriend is Welsh and he would never say he was British he would say he's Welsh I'm Welsh I'm of Celtic and I was like oh you're British shut up get over it oh we get it're Scottish. But we're all like, yay, everybody. And everyone's like, fuck you. But you would never say you're English. We want to like everybody, but everyone hates us. That's the best way to put it. If I do refer to myself as English, it's by accident.

But I do say it. But I would prefer to say British. The more that everyone else hates us the more i want to say i'm english girl do it you can say it all you want to us because our listeners are not gonna care there we go it's out and i'm pretty high so i didn't really understand any of that i'm just gonna say that you two are British, and I'm not going to talk about anyone else's nationality or heritage because I'm an American white lady,

and I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. Well, this will really spin you out. In South Africa, English means not Afrikaans. So I went, I was there, and yeah, it means like white person who is south african but is not an africana english speaking so if i went to what has happened to me in south africa and i said oh i'm english by accident they went no you fucking not um so that's another one whatever yeah whatever we we know what we are Does that settle things once and for all? I mean, no, because it really sounds

like you just collectively never decided on anything. It doesn't come up that much. You know, the sun never sets on the British Empire. Yeah. Hence the tea thing. Just really wanted to fuck over the Chinese. We were never asked

in South Africa. They knew the chinese we were never asked in south africa they knew exactly where we were from immediately and we were on our best behavior it's just the second a fucking american opens well i would say we were remember we went to that bar that one night and had like 49 spring bakkis each and made friends with those. They were delicious. It's basically, uh, well, it was like a white Russian with creme de menthe.

It was so good. As a shot. They were delicious. Oh yeah. We made a lot of friends, but the second an American opens their mouth anywhere else, but Canada, people are like,

oh, and even Canadians are like, oh, they're notoriously really nice. And you know what? We earned it. We deserve it. You Brits are talking about how everybody hates you?

Really? Oh, no, no, no, no. Everyone really hates us in the United Kingdom, the English. Oh. Okay, no. Well, everyone hates us in the world. And they should. I love Americans.

I'm not having it. I love Americans. I'm not having it. I love Americans. Love you guys. You're great. All right. Listen. I won't hear a word against you. Smell your bullshit from here.

Nah. We love it. We love coming to America. That was a paid advertisement for America. Okay. okay i got like a really mini dive for us because one of my um facts was that stonehenge was built as a cemetery during the bronze age wow which makes them older than the pyramids yeah yeah and they still don't know how they built them no but we know something about them. And here is my story. Okay.

So this is a really bizarre case. And there's also some excellent names in it. Okay. So Cecil Chubb was born on April 14th, 1876, an Aries, in the village of Shruton, which is about four miles west of Stonehenge. So he grew up right next to Stonehenge. He came from a line of saddle makers, but he was interested in law and politics. He met his wife at a cricket game and they married in 1902. Cecil became a barrister,

which as we learned not too long ago is an attorney. Correct. Didn't know what a fucking barrister was before that you did because we've taught we've done like a bad barrister's episode that's when i learned what it was oh right okay and amassed a considerable fortune while his wife's uncle owned a mental asylum called fisherton house which is now called Way, which she inherited after his death. So his wife, he and his wife basically own a mental asylum. And he's a wealthy barrister on his own, too. Cecil became chairman of the hospital.

And during his reign, it became the largest private mental hospital in Europe. Yikes. He also served on the Salisbury City Council and was a justice of the peace and they also owned racehorses and bred short horn cattle. They're rich. They're weird. That's what all of this

means. Long and short of it. Nice. Chub. Rich. Weird. Yes. Chub. Rich. Weird. Chub. Rich. Weird. By 1911 they're living in a really nice house with their two children, John and Mary, and eight servants. Only eight? Okay. In 1915, legend has it that Mrs. Chubb sent Cecil out to the local auction house to buy some dining room chairs. It just so happened to be the same day that Sir Cosmo Gordon Antrobus was auctioning off

Stonehenge after inheriting the estate from his brother. Have you guys heard about this? No, I've never heard this case before or any of these people. Okay. No chub. I don't want no chub. I't want no chub i don't know chub is a guy chub is a guy that can't get no love from me okay so he's auctioning off the estate that includes stonehenge on a whim cecil chubb bought it for 6,600 pounds,

which would be about 874,000 US dollars today. Just, he was there for chairs. It's like going to Target. You go for laundry detergent, you come out with a footstool. An ancient monument.

Yeah. An ancient monument. So. An ancient monument. So it might surprise you to know that Stonehenge had been privately owned since the 12th century. The site was in absolute shambles. I also have pictures of that with several of the rocks tipping over or like fully fallen over it. It,

it looked, it was really messy. It's sad to look at. People had been chipping off chunks and carving their names in it for probably centuries there was just crap all around it including a full like then abandoned military airfield from world war one oh weird but cecil had loved stonehenge his whole life, and just three years after purchasing it, he gifted

it to the nation. So he bought it. Not gonna lie, Cecil Chubb can kind of get it. He's kind of hot. Cecil Chubb is kind of hot, yeah. His wife's pretty cute, too. Do you have a picture, or do you just mean because he gave the monument to the country? No.

Both, but there are pictures of him. Okay. We're Googling. We're furiously Googling. Sir Cecil Chubb. Let's see. Do you know what? Yeah.

Yeah, I get it. Yeah, all right. Yeah, he's like hot. But then I feel like, and hear me out, I feel like everyone and their granddad looks really hot in black and white olden timey pictures. It's true. It's true.

It's very forgiving. Everyone's granddad looks super hot in like those wartime pictures because i think it's because they're in a like army uniform it's black and white they're like the quality of the lens is probably not very good everyone looks super fit it's not high def no also we are projecting on to these people that they're like old and wise. But in a lot of those war photos, they're like 19, but like have seen some shit. 19, shell shocked, terrified, not having a good time. Weirdly hot. So hot though.

Your granddad's so hot. The trauma shows and it's sexy. Weirdly hot. Yeah. My grandma looks and it's sexy. Weirdly hot. Yeah. My grandma looks exactly like Elizabeth Moss. I will send the picture to you. Yes. Hannah's hot grandma does look.

Exactly. I love a hot grandma. Like Elizabeth Moss. I love a hot grandma. For real. So Chubb gifts Stonehenge to the nation. A handing over ceremony was held in October 1918 and cecil received a knighthood in return and his special coat of arms because he's a knight now features a trilithon which are those

three big stones like the two vertical and the one horizontal that's what that's what you think of when you think of stonehenge so his little custom coat of arms has a little Stonehenge on it. I love it. Sir Cecil Chubb died in his home in London in 1934. The site underwent major repairs throughout the 20th century, and now she looks fabulous. So thanks, Chubbs. And I didn't know that it was privately owned.

I mean, I never thought about it. No. Privately owned until 1911. That's wild. Or 1918. And I can guarantee that you don't know that Saruti Bala and I have also pissed on it. Yeah. Near it.

Naughty girls. We didn't piss on it. Bad Brits. Bad Brits. Bad Brits. We've got some sort of anti-druid agenda no no no urgently out of urgent desperation they're in sight of stonehenge i could see stonehenge while i was pissing publicly that's just magical i love that yeah jealous i love an outdoor whiz in a majestic setting

you didn't hurt anybody is that it's opposite europe's biggest pig farm no one talks about that so it also stinks we were like we're gonna go past stonehenge and i've never actually been to stonehenge and yeah neither of us had and we were like should we just pop into stonehenge since we're driving past it and we're like yeah that'll be fun get there and we're like oh my god it's fucking closed why is it closed as if it's closed and we also thought there'll also be toilets there because both of us need we it's closed so we don't go in and then we just had to pull up on the side of the road and we because i was gonna literally piss myself in the car but you could even though the park was quote-unquote closed you could still see it from where you were you can see it from the road

yeah oh my god but the best thing about that was we pissed on the side of the road and we realized that we were like we'll leave what did we do we left the car doors open and we were like oh no one will be able to see us if we open the car doors but obviously as a lady i did squat down and as soon as i squashed down it doesn't matter that the car does or open everyone can see me on this motorway that everyone is driving past everyone is looking at my vagina but i started weeing at that point and i was like there's no they can't see your face so they can't see my face you're right though i'm quite anonymous i mean similarly i've had diarrhea on the Jersey Turnpike in a drainage ditch so you know been

there but I couldn't see Stonehenge from where I was squatting so you really had a nice you didn't piss on Stonehenge you pissed at Stonehenge yeah yes but exactly so Amanda's experience significantly less magical exactly I could see my mom sitting in her car from where I was. Not as majestic as Stonehenge, but Momhenge, she did guide me. Anyway. Well, that's my little story and some

facts for you. Alright, guys. Bad Brits. We are two bad Brits, and we have got a story about some bad Brits for you to sort things off. So, we're have got a story about some bad Brits for you to cut things off. So we're going to tell you all about some batshit crazy case that happened here. It's batshit, but it's also quite quaint. Yes.

So we thought you would enjoy it. I love it. What we're going to do is we're going to tell you the story of the insane goings on inside Pottery Cottage 1977 sorry in the peak district how aware of you are the peak district zero percent is it near broadchurch is it on west end it's very very far from broadchurch okay is up north um in the uk and it is a very beautiful area of outstanding natural beauty. Yeah, it's a beautiful place. You can go hiking. Lots of peaks, as you can imagine.

It's very nice. Okay. I love it. Before we continue, I have to ask both of you. Yes. To say pottery cottage in a British accent. Okay, gladly. Pottery cottage. Very good. Pottery cottage. view yes to say pottery cottage in a british accent okay gladly pottery cottage very good pottery cottage oh that was really good nine out of ten sorry i feel like mrs potts that's fine

that's fair i never said my accent was good i said it was perfect but thank you i love how you say it like lucy sits around saying her surname in a brit accent all the time, just dinking. I think Mrs. Potts from Beauty and the Beast has to live in Pottery Cottage. Angela Lansbury? You can think that. Yes. Angela Lansbury. Angela Lansbury.

Great. It's getting a little bit ropey, guys, but I appreciate the effort. Pottery Cottage. Pottery Cottage. Pottery Cottage. ropey guys but i appreciate the cottage just outstanding spending the weekend with my mates in pottery cottage looking at peaks i'm so glad i have to. Okay, we'll stop. We'll stop. We'll stop. We are not going to absorb any red-handed listeners from this. No. We've offended all of them.

You have all of the choice in the world here, ladies. Continue. Continue. So, surely, no matter how you say it, nothing bad could ever happen in Pottery Cottage. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. But, my friends, you are wrong. The story we've picked out for you is actually so wild that we're going to have to rattle through a million other crimes before we even start. Yes.

Okay. The story begins in the early hours of Sundayay the 22nd of august 1976 when a man stumbled into you're gonna like this one beatwell street police station in chesterfield covered in blood the man who was eventually arrested for the violent attack would carry out just six months later a daring prison escape at knife point, a convoluted hostage situation and a dramatic police chase ending in gunfire, which for us doesn't happen very often. I was literally just going to say, that's just another Tuesday in America.

We're speaking our language. It's Tuesday, isn't it? Down at the pottery barn. It's Tuesday, isn't it? Tuesday, isn't it? Down at the pottery barn. It's Tuesday, isn't it? Tuesday, isn't it? And this whole escapade shook the entire area so much that in 1977, in that particular area of the Peak District, it is still referred to as the Year of the Knife. Oh, my God. Jeez.

So dramatic. Drama queens. We're my God. Jeez. So dramatic. Drama queens. We're nothing if not dramatic as a nation. Mm-hmm. Right. Do either of you know what Chesterfield is? I've heard it, but if you asked me right now like you just did, I couldn't tell you.

Fair enough. It's okay. Is it a gun? We're going to leave our story hanging for, yeah, just a hot sec while we set the scene. Okay. So like I said, the Peep District is a national park and it actually covers around 500 square miles of our very tiny island. Thank you for converting to miles for us. We appreciate that.

We do miles. We do miles. We do miles as well. Oh, fabulous. Unless you're running and then it's kilometers. Not kilometers. Oh, Jesus. We're just like, don't use the same thing all the time.

No one's running a kilometer. As if I could run a kilometer. So I know that I did refer to the Peak District earlier as being up north. And I went to university in Birmingham. And when I first arrived there, I kept being like, oh, my God, up north. And everyone was like, we're in the Midlands. We're in the Midlands. We're in the Midlands.

Stop saying we're up north. I now understand that. But just to confirm, it is up north from where we are, but it is not technically in the north of England. It is slap bang pretty much in the middle of the country. So the Midlands. We would never do that to you in Minnesota because we say up north also. And that's like up north can be halfway up the state. Yeah.

Got it. Got it. I appreciate that. Basically anywhere north of white bear lake is up north oh yeah i have no idea what that means it's halfway up it's chesterfield yeah people get very funny about it incites passions yes it does so let's get it let's get it right let's set the record straight for our british listeners so basically the peak district it separates the cities of manchester to the west and Sheffield to the east.

Manchester, soccer, united. Recognize it. Exactly. So today we are in Chesterfield. That's more on the Sheffield side. So accent wise, we're more Sean Bean and Louis Tomlinson than Oasis. Oh, thank you for using those specific references, because that makes perfect sense. Yep. I'm so, so glad. I'm so, so glad. I can hear it in my mind's ear. I think it's perfect.

Do you guys want to attempt to do a Sheffield accent? Hannah? I can only think of Mr. Sheffield from The Nanny. Can you say, you know nothing, Jon Snow in a Sheffield accent. Hannah? I can only think of Mr. Sheffield from The Nanny. Can you say you know nothing Jon Snow in a Sheffield accent? You know nothing Jon Snow. Nice. Nice. Yeah.

That's it. More like this. You know nothing Jon Snow. You know nothing Jon Snow. I'm Lily Ellen. Nailed it. Points for everybody. Okay.

So the landscape. Now we've got the accent, you know, nailed down. Lily Ellen. Yeah. Nailed it. Points for everybody. Okay. So the landscape. Now we've got the accent, you know, nailed down. The landscape, just in case you guys want to visualize it with your minds, inspired books like Wuthering Heights and Jane Eyre. So rugged. Windy. Windy. It's wild.

It's not bleak. It's not the word. but you know what I mean. It's rough and pretty. So yeah, wild, untamed, all that good stuff. Lots of orphans. Sometimes. So now we've set the scene for you, let's get back to our bloody-faced man

who staggered into that police station and reported a crime. To this day, we only know him as Mr K. What else we know about him is that he was a labourer, and that night he had been out to a discotheque, because we are in the 70s and that's what we called them. He was dancing away to all sorts of glam rock hits with his girlfriend, who we'll call Miss C. And they bumped into a super drunk, lone man who became quite clingy, so they obviously just left.

It's happened to all of us. It's happened to the best of us. And on their way, they saw a closed leisure center, and being 20 and 21, they hopped the wall to go and get off with each other. I don't think they know what a leisure center is. I don't know if they know what get off means. I think they're fucking in they know what a leisure center is. I don't know if they know what get off means. I think they're fucking. What's a leisure center? Is a leisure center like a rest stop?

Like somewhere to go to the bathroom? No. Is it a spa? Leisure center is like, you know, if you live in like a decent sized town, you will have at least one leisure center. And it will be like where there's a swimming pool and there'll be like, you know.

A gym. A gym. A rec center. A rec center. Yeah, we have those. Recreational center. I love that. That's very fancy.

And get off doesn't mean sex. It doesn't? It just means snog. No. Yeah, it's used to, oh, I got off in, but like that. Just kissing with tongues. Making out. Get off is just kissing in the Brits? Yeah, it's making him. But like that. Just kissing with tongues. Making out. Get off is just kissing in the Brits?

Yeah, it's making out. Yeah, yeah. Getting off here is mostly masturbation or just coming. Coming. No, if you got off with somebody, you just snogged them. Yeah, we don't always get off with someone. I see. I see.

Look, we're bridging the cultural divide. But when we do, it's magic. Somehow, they get into the leisure centre that's closed to get off with each other. And while they were kissing by the swimming pool, Mr. K was suddenly hit over the back of the head with a brick. Very hard. Jesus. He blacked out completely. And when he came to, his girlfriend, Miss C, was missing. So he went straight to the police, which is where we started our story.

Good boy. So when the police searched the leisure centre, they found Miss C distraught in a toilet cubicle. And she had been raped. A manhunt started immediately and made the front page of the local paper, with the headline reading, Massive Hunt for Vicious Rapist. Soon enough, a man named William Hughes was dobbed in, and the police brought him to the station.

He admitted the assault straight away, but swore he only attacked Mr. K in self-defense and said the woman was responsive to the idea of sex. That's a quote. We don't think that's a thing that's okay to say. He said that. Right, right. According to the officers who dealt with William Hughes,

his eyes were cold and penetrating, which is very poetic for, like, people who are just interviewing this potential rapist. Yeah, they call those dead fish eyes. The quote is much longer, and it is very... Overwrought. Somebody's been reading Wuthering Heights twiddly yeah twiddly I mean I feel like British reporting specifically British headlines are like their own special beast well this is the cop right we're so I know this isn't a pun but

we're very our tabloids are very good at puns. I think that is one thing they do excel at. You have not read a tabloid until you've read like a British tabloid or like a British crime article. They are wild. They are not bipartisan. It's because it's a lot harder to sue someone in this country. So they can basically say what they want. Oh, I love that.

We're very litigious in the US. Okay. I think that we had stronger media protection laws in this country. It's why like you can, you can't say very much in this country, which is why they get away with saying loads more there. Like when What's Her Face's book came out uh rebel wilson and she had to redact loads of it in the uk because she was going to get sued here because there they've got freedom of speech under the first amendment we do however there are some

things that are some things that are like state by state which is weird in our country for example constitution so we don't have it like enshrined anywhere for that so it's like right depending on what you say you could probably get sued quite easily and obviously the press works a lot with police and so it'll also depend on what the state's laws are about what police can say about certain things that's why we get so many juicy stories out of florida because they have different laws sunshine laws they're allowed to yeah sunshine laws but how they're allowed to interact with the press so that's why like florida man exists yes yes yes yes cool so um yeah they're describing this guy very poetically cold penetrating eyes has william hughes and although he was cooperative

and polite he refused to admit to the rape of Miss C. Yeah, so the brick he has no problem with, he's like, but I did not rape her. So who is this man we're talking about? He was the eldest of six children, born in Lancashire, which is the other side of the peaks to Chesterfield. But since his dad was in the army, he had one of those classic globe-trotting army kid upbringings. He lived in Germany and in Hong Kong until his dad got drunk and crashed an army vehicle and then obviously was dishonorably discharged. Whoops. After that, back in the UK, money was tight for the Hughes family.

And while both of his parents were out trying to earn a crust, little Billy Hughes had to stay at home and take care of his five siblings. But this early responsibility didn't do that much for him. At school, he was a total prick. He also had a reputation for never backing down. He always answered back to teachers, and if his classmates made fun of his height, which he was very sensitive about, he would go absolutely mental it will happen so while still at school billy hughes became infatuated with his life's true

passion crime he started stealing from shops and when he left school at 15 he started robbing cars breaking into houses and constantly getting into fights and he bloody loved it he would talk about it non-stop the crimes he had done and the ones he was planning on doing next so he wasn't very uh tight-lipped and this is where we have to rattle through his rap sheet a little bit because over the next 15 years hughes was constantly in and out of incarceration. Oh, damn. He started off in reform schools, then barstools, then graduated to big boy prison. Do you guys know what barstool is? Barstool?

A barstool. It sounds like juvie, like juvenile detention, but. Yeah, kind of. It's like a school where you send troubled youth troubled children that have a criminal that have you know been involved with something criminal yeah i guess okay and they they live there because they're they're detained yes juvie i also feel like they're like really old yeah like I think we've had them for hundreds of years. Yes.

Kids have been bad for a long time. Yeah, absolutely. And you know that Chokey from Matilda? Yes. Yeah. That's a real thing. That's a real thing. Because many borstels in the UK, so these reformed quote unquote schools for delinquent children, if we want to say that, had chokies in them as a punishment.

Oh my God. Real bad shit going on here. Not great. And little Billy Hughes spent a lot of his time inside, silently working out in his cell. He also got a nice collection of very shit prison tattoos, including love and hate on his knuckles. The classic. He got an ex-girlfriend's name, Diana, you'll be glad to hear, on his chest. You can always play that off as a Lady Di tattoo.

That's actually really smart. It is. It is. That's a good one. We have a Diana in our case, too. Just get Diana on it. Yeah. And finally, the classic cool boy that he thought he was, he got a bloody fanged snake

covering his back. Sick. Wow. I have a snake, but not on my back. Is it in your pants? No, it's on my leg. It's so big that it can't fit in my pants so it has to go down my leg nice and fun fact for everybody because william hughes was once held at risley remand center near warrington

just three days before ian brady and myra hindley arrived there. Uh-oh. Yep. So they're infamous. Who are we talking about? So Ian and Myra, just in case anyone's confused, they are, of course, the Moores murderers. The infamous Moores murderers. So they were at the same prison that this guy,

that Billy Hughes was at just three days after he got there. Okay, okay. Despite being in prison basically all the time uh billy still had time for the ladies in 1972 hughes married a woman called jean nadin who had a daughter from a previous marriage and jean was also fresh out of prison so it's nice to have common interests things in common. Common rap sheet. Jean found out that she was pregnant just six weeks after she met Billy, so make of that what you will. That is a nightmare.

And fair warning, this bit is absolutely sick. When that baby was born, three days after coming home from hospital, Hughes held the baby by the neck and threatened to drop her if gene didn't make him breakfast oh my god yeah that guy and a few years later when his stepdaughter was five uh billy fractured her ribs in a fit of rage so that is the kind of man that we are dealing with here jesus i just cannot fathom. I mean, there are so many kinds of evil people in the world, but people who harm children are like a next level of evil. Yeah. What kind of not disgusted me more, but disgusted me nonetheless,

was that for breaking his own five-year-old daughter's ribs, he did six months. Of course. Ah! That feels very American as well. God. A few years down the line, he broke into an ex-girlfriend's house

and attacked her and her housemates with an axe. When the police arrived, he was placidly sitting down, having asked his victims to make him... Can you guess? Breakfast. A cup of tea. Oh, fuck.

Fuckers and their tea. And we're doing nothing to dispel the tea drinking stereotype in this country because the book on this case, A Cup of Tea, happens literally every three pages. So we're not helping the cause at all. I think you're too far gone. And despite all of this, this enormous rap sheet and many, many more that we're not going to tell you about because we don't have time, Hughes just kept getting parole. Because when he was on the inside, he was a model prisoner, a quiet, studious, obedient inmate who became an expert chess player and a talented painter.

Oh, well, great. Oh, that's creepy. He has so much to contribute to society. Let's keep letting him out. So to dig a little bit deeper into our profile here, despite his attacks on family members, Hughes's criminal record was mostly marked by violence against authority figures or strangers, often seemingly uncontrollable. He was almost always under the influence of drink or drugs, but still managed to be a calm and convincing liar. And he never,

ever, ever accepted responsibility for his actions. So in our story, 30-year-old Billy Hughes has been handed in, who was nicknamed Mad Billy by the press. Not their finest work. Sceathing. Sceathing. Searing. He's specifically in the press for the rape and assault at the leisure centre that night that we started with.

And because of those accusations, he was jailed once again. But more importantly, when Mad Billy arrived at HMP Leicester, do you know what HMP stands for? His Majesty Priestess. Police. Close. So close. Only the P is wrong. So if you're sent to prison, you're sent there at his majesty's or previously her majesty's. Privilege. Promise. So close. Personage.

Pleasure. Pleasure. Pleasure. Never would have guessed that. My first guess was priestess. You are incarcerated at her majesty's pleasure. Exactly. Incredible.

To get her off. So use HMP in a sentence. Is it just like RSVP? Amanda did it. Yeah, he was sent to HMP Leicester. He was incarcerated. You're going to be incarcerated at His Majesty's pleasure. At HMP?

Yeah. Okay. So all of, like, all of our prisons, all of our prisons start with HMP. So it's like, just like HMP, insert name of prison. It makes HM sound sadistic. That's wild. I love it. It's me, the fact check fairy.

You thought I was gone. I was never gone. I was just waiting. I told them, after they recorded this, that HMP does not stand for Her Majesty's Pleasure, His Majesty's Pleasure. It stands for His or Her Majesty's Prison. However, because they're stubborn,

they wouldn't listen to me, and they decided to leave it in because, let's face it, it is quite funny. So that's why that is. Reserve your tweets for me, the Fact Check Fairy. Good luck finding me. So when he finally was incarcerated at Her Majesty's pleasure, he was listed on his induction form that he presented an exceptional risk on the following three grounds.

He was likely to try and escape, he was of a violent nature, and he also had suicidal tendencies. And then we have to assume that this form was then slid directly into a bin. Cool. After a few months inside, Hughes was declared a Category B prisoner. And as per his own repeated requests, he was allowed a job in the prison kitchens, which was, bad news, a mistake. On the 3rd of December 1976, a 7-inch boning knife disappeared from the kitchens.

And it was never recovered. And on Wednesday the 12th of January, William Hughes was due to be transported to Chesterfield Crown Court to face those leisure centre charges. It was a freezing January morning. We're talking sub-zero temperatures and the worst snowfall that the UK had had in over 50 years. Hughes had already been taken to court at least six times since he'd arrived in custody. Each time he'd head to reception, change into civilian clothes, undergo a thorough search and step into the back of an armoured van to be taken to court. But not this time. This time the prison ordered for him a taxi hughes dressed for the occasion and put on quite the outfit he had a blue pinstripe suit a floral tie and a white silk waistcoat sounds like he's

getting married what an asshole and uh he also had quite the accessory with him. It was, of course, that seven-inch knife, and he had it wrapped up in his underwear. Next to his hog. At least it wasn't in his ass. That's true. I'm glad of that.

I can't confirm that. Yeah, I guess we don't know. Wrapped up in his underwear that he was wearing? Yeah, possibly. He had it between the cheeks. Yes. Risky. Very risky.

Careful sitting. So why was there no full strip search for an armored vehicle, as there usually were? As Amanda said, it is an excellent question, and I'm very proud of myself for asking it. The answer is mostly that the prison was overcrowded and underfunded. So the staff just didn't do proper checks. Great. Yeah, I mean, that's still an ongoing problem. Oh, yeah, it is here too. Yeah.

We recently had a situation here in the UK. Where was it? Wandsworth. Yeah, so HMP Wandsworth, a very big prison here in the UK, recently had a review because of something I will come on to. And obviously it was found to be absolutely overcrowded. I think it was also like it was riddled with like rats and cockroaches and all sorts of horrible shit. The reason it got this inquiry and the reason it hit the headlines

was because one of the guards there a female guard had sexual relations with a i want to say a guest an inmate um while another inmate filmed her having sex with him in their cell and then get your bag on social media and she then tried to run away she was uh caught at the airport trying to flee the country. So, yeah. Good for her. Good for her. Life ruined.

Yep. Yeah. It was a victimless crime. She's the victim. I mean, she's not the victim because she did it, but she's the one that's going to lose everything.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and also the governor quit before the inquiry even started because he was like, yes, bad head. What a fucking mess. I'm out. Yeah. Bye bye.

And on top of all of that, Hughes's crime had just been written down as rape. They didn't mention the break and entering or the brick. So it didn't really convey just how violent and opportunistic he is, was, as a person. So, with all of that in mind, Hughes was put in the back of a cab and handcuffed to a prison warder called Kevin Simmons. He used to be a lorry driver and an amateur boxer. You don't say lorry, do you? Like a taxi? No, it's a truck. Oh, a truck.

Yeah, truck. HGV. So Hughes is handcuffed to this Kevin Ken character, and that meant that one of his hands was sneakily completely free. In the front seats of the taxi were warden Donald Sprinter and a minicab driver called David Reynolds. And as they drove, Hughes chatted with them about fishing and sports. On the way to court, Billy Hughes asked for a toilet stop and Simmons waited outside the cubicle for him.

While Hughes was in the loo, masked by the sounds of flushing and chain clinking, he managed to transfer the knife in his pants to his jacket pocket. And I mean pants, not underwear. Inside. Yep, underpants. Then they all got back in the cab

and as they turned onto a slip road to Chesterfield, inside. Yep. Underpants. Then they all got back in the cab, and as they turned onto a slip road to Chesterfield, Hugh saw his opportunity and pounced. He lurched forwards and buried his underwear knife into Warden Sprinter's neck. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. He's not here to play. No.

He is serious. And if the blood loss won't kill him the infection from the booty knife sure will so it's a double hit this is true they should have really had this on his risk assessment likely to escape yeah likely to booty possibly tried to kill himself and will stab you in the neck be careful with a booty knife so yeah he's done it and with a booty knife and then hughes turned his attention to simmons who he was handcuffed to in the back seat oh my god and he slashed his neck and jaw with the same knife holy shit then he shouted at the cab driver to keep going okay yeah i mean that guy's like i'm not paid enough i'll just do what you want

i keep going i'm not gonna be a hero'll just do what you want. I keep going. I'm not going to be a hero. I've seen nothing. Absolutely. Please. The back of my head is not covered in other people's blood. It's fine. I've seen nothing. I'll take you wherever you want to go.

This is even the worst shift I've ever had. Be on your way, sir. It's Tuesday, innit? So he's a Cockney taxi driver up in Chesterfield. Got it. Absolutely. So eventually they reach a silent rural road and Hughes forced everyone out of the cab

and drove himself off, leaving his victims bleeding on the side of the road. Now, in case we had forgotten, it was snowing loads. So it didn't take long for Hughes to lose control of the taxi and smash it into a stone wall. A Minnesotan would never. Stonehenge. That would have been really cool if our stories had linked up.

That would have been amazing. Should we just pretend? He smashed it into Stonehenge. And Lucy, a Minnesotan would. I used to play a game in my car called Hit the Snowbag. On purpose. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

We know how to drive in snow is what I'm saying. Yeah, we do. And we know how to crash. I see. We do. So yeah, once he hits this stonehenge, Hughes was left with no choice but to continue on foot, he headed out onto the moors in the biting cold in just his silk shirt suit, white waistcoat and smart shoes. Dressed like a fucking asshole. Covered in blood. With your paisley tie. Ugh. God.

And soon enough, he took off his socks and shoes and waded through the icy water, which I feel like is the opposite of what you should probably do. It also has absolutely no bearing on the case or story. I just thought it was mental. It is mental. That is mental. Well, if the dogs are after you, that's how you lose the dog's trail. In cartoons. It's also how you lose your feet.

Yeah, that's true. That's also a wife's tale that's not a guarantee if it's like a little stream there they can i mean in a lot of cases they can just pick the scent up on the other side it's harder if you walk like in the river also if i was like the canine dog handler and the dogs just walked up to a stream and then lost his scent i'd be like all right so we get the dogs on the other side of the stream because then his scent, I'd be like, oh, right, so we get the dogs on the other side of the stream because then his scent continues. Like, it's not rocket science. Who knows? Who knows?

So eventually, Hughes reached the village of Eastmore and he approached the first house that he saw, the 19th century Pottery Cottage. Yes, finally, Pottery Cottage. I forgot about Pottery Cott. I forgot about pottery cottage. It slipped my mind. A plum forgot. Glorielle, I forgot pottery cottage. Are we appropriating?

Yes. Go for it. You can have it. Sharing is caring. I'm probably partly british somewhere in my ancestry so i'm just gonna allow it take it we're white yeah it's fine by the time he got to pottery cottage a full investigation had been launched into the whereabouts of mr billy hughes the prison officers and cabbie had been seen by a passing vehicle and still seriously

bleeding on the side of the road. They were then taken to hospital. And by the way, they all survived. Hooray! Fucking how? I don't know. Antibiotics, baby. Got the booty germs. Booty germs. Stitches.

Damn. The search started immediately. Sniffer dogs and everything. So maybe that is what he was thinking about with the stream. But the heavy snowfall on the moors made tracking Billy Hughes nearly impossible because it snows here every year. Even though we know it snows, the country shuts down every single time. The trains't run the roads are closed schools are closed it's a joke that's so funny you wouldn't last five minutes in the midwest like sub-zero temperatures in minnesota are like a three month expectation over our winter oh and it'll have we get these things called polar vortexes where it'll be negative 20 degrees Fahrenheit for like three weeks straight.

You like can't you can barely leave your house. Oh, wow. But school does not shut down. Oh, yeah. Kids still go to school. None of that. Unless school basically only shuts down if it's so cold that waiting for like five minutes at the bus stop could literally kill them. That's when school gets closed here.

I like that system. That's a good system. If you're going to die going to school, which in the US is a risk anyway, because we don't give a fuck about gun laws or regulation, but we will shut school down if it's too cold. At least we have that. I'm bitter and angry.

It's fine. So through the blizzard that we are completely inequipped to deal with as British people, the police managed to search over 200 buildings. They made traffic stops and they even made a plea for information on the telly. But nothing happened. The police were working under the assumption that Billy Hughes had flagged down another car

and headed elsewhere. They never considered that Billy Hughes would have taken to the Moors on foot because that is totally mental. Yeah. The investigation was serious, but this assumption made early on meant that they were looking in entirely the wrong place. So, meanwhile, totally undetected, Hughes approached Pottery Cottage and grabbed an axe from the shed. He burst into Pottery Cottage through the open back door, put his hand over the mouth of the old woman who was cooking inside, and told her not to scream. It's Angela Lansbury! It's Angela Lansbury. Now in my head it is Angela Lansbury.

No! Oh no! And although she didn't scream, the woman's husband heard the commotion and came in. Hughes pushed him to the floor. He told this poor man that he'd escaped jail and no one would get hurt if they didn't try anything. Then Hughes told the terrified woman to...

Make him breakfast. Make him a cup of tea. A cup of tea! Which she immediately did, being the polite British host that she was. Mm-hmm. Whilst enjoying his cuppa, Hughes demanded to know who else lived in Pottery Cottage and when they would be back.

The lady who'd made him the cup of tea introduced herself, as is polite to do, as Amy Minton, 68 years old. And her husband was 72-year-old Arthur. Amy told Hughes that the pair of them lived in the annex of the cottage and that their daughter Jillian lived in the main house with their son-in-law, Richard, and their 10-year-old granddaughter, Sarah. Amy, all right, just give him all of the information. Yeah.

I know politeness matters. It's Richard. Everybody is next door. We live here. We've lived here for quite a while. Amy's got no poker face whatsoever. Amy's lonely and she loves to chat. And we have a lot of money in the safe under the bed.

Arthur is sick of her bullshit. We don't trust banks. We keep cash under the mattress in this room here. Here's a gun. And then when Jillian came home from work at 3pm, Hughes subdued her quickly, probably because Amy had told her exactly what time her daughter would get home. Yep. Then when little Sarah got home from school,

the adults told her the strange man's car had broken down and he was just hanging out drinking cups of tea. And, you know, there was nothing wrong, so don't worry, little girl. And they did all sit around drinking tea together for a while, making pretend. But when Gillian's husband, Richard, got home at six, they dropped the act pretty quickly. Hughes held a knife to Gillian's throat and told Richard to lie on the floor. He tied and gagged them all. And one by one, each member of the family was taken into a different room.

Then the nightmare truly began. Oh, God. Hughes went into the room where he'd put the 72-year-old Arthur and stabbed him repeatedly with his butt knife that he still had. The butt knife. Then he went through to the annex and in the same state of frenzy, stabbed the 10-year-old Sarah to death.

Jesus Christ. Oh, my God. Afterwards, he carried her grandfather's body into the annex and closed the door. And then he went upstairs and asked Gillian, Sarah's mum, to make them all dinner. Oh, my God. When Gillian asked where the fuck her daughter was, or I'm sure she was too polite to say that, but I think the tone is implied, Hughes showed her a picture of his own daughter, Nicola,

the one he broke the ribs of, and he told her that he would never, ever hurt a little girl. So Gillian went ahead and made dinner, and Hughes took two hot plates of food through to the annex, even though Sarah and Arthur were already dead, and he knows that because he killed them. The following morning, Hughes sent Gillian out to drive to the shop on her own to buy him cigarettes and a newspaper.

He said that she needed to remember her family and not do anything stupid. And she did not. On Friday the 14th of January, after two days of hot meals and endless cups of tea, Billy Hughes announced that he was leaving Pottery Cottage. But he said to leave he needed supplies. So he untied Richard and Gillian and told them to drive him into Chesterfield together to buy him a camping stove and some cigarettes. He even told them to pick up a book for Sarah while they were out. Oh, that's sick. Richard, of course, wanted to tell the police, but Gillian said she'd never forgive him if he did. So they did what they were told and returned with Hughes's haul.

Hughes packed a bag with the stove, cigs, food, an axe and a knife. Then he tied Amy and Richard back up and told Gillian to drive him to the next town. But a short way into this drive, Hughes told Gillian that they had to go back to Pottery Cottage because he'd forgotten to bring a map with him. When he got into the cottage, he found that two of the hostages were trying to unfasten their bindings and he completely lost it in a fit of rage he stabbed them both repeatedly he then calmly washed his hands of all of the blood and returned to jillian in the car but the car wouldn't start oh my god and this poor woman has no idea that her whole family is dead inside. No. Yeah. Okay, great. And because the car wouldn't start, Billy Hughes sent a shaking Jillian to her neighbors.

And as you pointed out, still completely oblivious to the fate of her entire family up until this point, Jillian was terrified of messing it up. And her neighbors, the Newmans, could tell that something was wrong. Jillian told them everything. That chatty Jillian. Can't resist. Couple days too late. Just like her mum. She told her neighbours that the Moors man,

which is what she had decided to call Billy Hughes, had tied up her whole family and was going to kill them all because she doesn't know that he already has. And did the Newmans call the police please say yes did they fuck because the newmans didn't have a phone oh what what kind of quaint village where every house has its own name. This is too much. God. Can you imagine not having a phone? No. Like, I hate calling anyone, but my anxiety could never.

It's nice to have the option. It's the 70s. It's not like there's not electricity. So that meant the Newmans had to drive to the next farm over to use their phone. And when Hughes saw the Newman's car speeding out of their garage, he knew exactly what must have happened. But then, almost immediately afterwards, Amy, who is miraculously somehow still alive, staggered out of the house covered in blood. Oh my God. And in full view of Gillian, Hughes knocked Amy,

who is in her 60s, she's old, he knocked her out and dragged her out of sight. Jesus Christ. And then he told Gillian that he was going to head out on foot and that she was going to go with him. Oh, no. Oh, no. In time, both of them got to the house of a mechanic

called, very fittingly, Ron Frost, and asked for a tow. While standing in the living room, Gillian silently mouthed the words, Help me, to Ron's wife, Madge. Ron, the mechanic, offered to drive Hughes and Gillian back to the broken down car. As they drove, Gillian silently jabbed Ron, asking for help once more. Madge was actually the one to clock this. I mean, she has been trying to mouth something to you for ages, Madge.

Like, I feel like, pay attention. Yeah. Do they have a phone at the mechanic? Apparently not. They're just like, I'll tow you back there. I'll take you back there. So Madge does clock it. She clocks that Jillian is in trouble, eventually.

And Madge does call the police, telling them that, quote, the Moors man, as Gillian had called him, was holding this woman, Gillian, hostage. The police rushed round to Pottery Cottage, and there they found all the lights on and the music blaring from a radio upstairs. The lights were on on but there was no one home. Not a single person in Pottery Cottage was still alive. The carpets were drenched in blood and there was a corpse in pretty much every room. God. Elsewhere with Ron the mechanic's help, Gillian and Billy Hughes were back on the road but not for long. A police car spotted them and chased Hughes down. The

pursuit caused Hughes to swerve and he crashed Gillian's car into a wall again. But it's not quite over. Mad Billy wasn't going to go down that easy. He sprang out of the car, dragging Gillian behind him and brandishing an axe. So the police let Billy Hughes drive away in their police car. Oh my god. In the next town over though, better police emptied a local bus of passengers because they knew that Hughes had to be coming through that village sooner or later. So they parked the bus across the street as a roadblock. And sure enough, the stolen police car with Hughes at the wheel appeared. Seeing the bus too late, Hughes swerved again and crashed again into a street sign.

Almost instantly. He sucks at driving in the snow. He is a bad, bad driver. And obviously almost instantly, armed officers surrounded the car. Inside, Hughes, who still got Gillian, grabbed her and once again said that he would kill her with his big axe if the police didn't give him another car and leave him alone. Hughes shouted, your time's up, and swung the axe hard directly at Gillian's face. Oh my God.

Thankfully, an officer leapt through the rear window of the car and knocked the axe off course, saving Gillian's life. Wow. And seconds later, another officer fired a shot through the car's window. That bullet hit Hughes in the temple, but somehow didn't penetrate his skull. Holy shit. What? Yeah, but somehow didn't penetrate his skull. Holy shit. What? Yeah, because he's predator, apparently.

Yikes. And even a second shot that embedded in his shoulder still did not stop him. It was the third shot that led Hughes to finally collapse. And this was actually the first time in the UK that an escaped prisoner was shot dead by a police officer. And actually, the first time that Derbyshire police had ever shot anyone at all. Damn. Very un-American. Yeah, I wish we could say that. Gillian escaped with a minor head wound. And of course, major shock. Once in hospital, police told her what had happened. And upon hearing the news, Gillian asked,

there's no one left then? Her entire family had been murdered. The chief inspector of the prison service eventually published a 57-page report on the prison's failings. Of particular importance was the missing butt kitchen knife, which prison staff seemed to have looked for and not found and then just gave up they didn't like raise any alarms that this knife was missing from a prison doesn't look that way cool how quaint great and presumably

uh the use of local minicabs to take violent offenders to court has since been curbed also. OK, good. Good. And the police had their own investigation into how they managed to fail to discover the man keeping a family hostage for two and a half days. In the end, the shooting of Billy Hughes was considered a justifiable homicide by a court. And the officer who intercepted the axe blow,

Chief Inspector Howes, was awarded the Queen's Commendation for Brave Conduct. So that's kind of fine. I mean, lots of people died, but he got a medal. Is that fine? I don't think it's fine. If I jumped in front of a woman who was going to get axed in the head, I'd want at least a medal. I'm fine with that guy getting a medal, to be and i'm super fine with evil willie being dead yeah yes bye

bitch bad billy exactly he is fuck him so that is guys the case of the pottery cottage murders which is hard we've really let come across throughout that story yeah the year of the night holy shit that was wild y'all that was a lot more violent than i thought it would be we thought it was quaint it is quite violent violent and quaint like annie lansbury stories i'd say the case you recommended for us is also quaint with a spot of violence. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall, that was no protection. Claudine Gay is now gone.

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Listen to the rise and fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery Plus. Okay, so the lovely ladies at Red Handed recommended that we cover the teacup murders. So much tea. A very tea heavy episode. 100 to 160 million cups of tea. A day. Every fucking day.

Yeah, so makes sense. So when there's ad breaks in popular soap operas like eastenders or coronation street the national grid has to up the ampage in the specific time of the advert break because everyone puts the kettle on for their electric kettles oh yeah you don't have not so much a thing for you guys hey we have one at our house and it's the best everybody should have one that i can't believe anyone does it yeah yeah the brits got that one right the electric kettle the best you have the perfect tea temperature or coffee if you do pour over coffee water in fucking two minutes it's incredible again well that makes

perfect sense all right let's hear about graham young who was born on September 7th, 1947, a Virgo, to Bessie and Fred Young. He had an older sister named Winifred Winnie. His mother, Bessie, died from tuberculosis when she was just 14 weeks old, which is very sad. When he was 14 weeks old. Yeah. So she had him. And then 14 14 weeks later she got TB and she died. And his father Fred sent Graham to live with his aunt Winnie and uncle until his father remarried two years later

in 1950. Couldn't handle being a single parent. I need a woman in here. Then I'll take him back. I can't fucking do this. During those formative years, Graham grew very attached to his aunt Winnie and when, who his older sister is named after. And when he went back to live with his father, Fred, and new stepmother Molly, he experienced some major separation anxiety.

It wasn't a great transition. In school, he wasn't really making friends with his peers. He got really into chemistry instead. So he was like, I'm just going to make potions and not speak to anyone, which is very Lucy-coded, to be honest. Yeah, I definitely did the same. He also adopted some more concerning interests. He became fascinated with chemicals,

black magic, and Nazis. Oh. They do all go hand in hand. They really do. Yeah. He also read a bunch of books about notorious murderers. It just, his goth phase was white supremacist and really intense. It was weird.

His father, Fred, didn't really seem to see anything seriously wrong with these interests, which, like, dad, the fuck? I don't know. Father the Nazi stuff that was basically me yeah I mean if it were just the chemistry and black magic I would be fostering this obsession it's it's the Nazis that should have raised a flag of any color but mostly red yeah I feel like in middle school people like I don't know I went through a phase where I was fascinated with the Holocaust. Sure. That's not the same thing as being fascinated with Nazis and Hitler.

Exactly. It's good to be clear. Yep. Very good to be clear. So his dad trying to foster at least the chemistry interest, bought him a chemistry set to indulge what looked like his healthier proclivities to sort of steer him that way. Let's get him away from the Nazis and more towards science, maybe. He got really into this chemistry set to the point where his classmates started calling him the mad professor. Y'all like the word mad over there. Also scathing.

Mm hmm. By the time he was 13 graham was acquiring large amounts of chemicals specifically poisonous chemicals by convincing professional chemists that he was much older and was using the chemicals for the purpose of study in 1961 when graham was 13 his stepmother molly started developing very bad stomach issues we're talking vomiting diarrhea really bad stomach pain uh possibly possibly and his father fred and his sister winifred also began suffering from the same elements weirdly while little. Little Graham is seeming. Just fine. It's the big mistake.

It's the rookie error. You gotta poison yourself a little bit. A little bit at least. That a classmate named Christopher William. Develops similar symptoms. And everyone starts to think. There's just a weird stomach bug going around. And they kind of just let it go.

Nobody dies at this point they're like oh weird everybody got sick a little while later it's now november 1961 his sister winifred falls extremely ill very quickly it's on her way to work she ends up in the hospital like she left her work feeling okay probably had that cup of tea and then left and by the time she's on her way, like in the car, she's like, I can't even fucking drive. I'm so sick. She'd been drinking a cup of tea at home,

but it tasted weird. So she dumped the rest of it out. She didn't finish it. Oh, she wasn't driving. She was on the train. She was so sick. She began to hallucinate and she went to the hospital. Doctors discovered traces of Belladonna in her system,

which if you've ever seen practical magic can be deadly i'm sure in little women they put it in their eyes to dilate their pupils yeah it can be used for a lot of a lot of medicinal purposes in small amounts without being problematic to your system but like too much of it you're fucked and belladonna is an ancient extract of a deadly nightshade so fred the dad suspected graham of having something to do with it but they couldn't quite prove anything so he just reprimanded his son and told him to be more careful when messing around with those bloody chemicals slap on the wrist Meanwhile, Graham's behavior grew increasingly bizarre. His fascination with Nazis blew up.

Okay, he was not distracted from that by the fucking chemistry set. He began wearing swastikas and idolizing Hitler. His science experiments also had gotten out of control, and he ended up blowing up the kitchen of the family home. I'd be sending him to the barstool, the barstool. Off to the barstool with you under Her Majesty's pleasure. Yeah, which is right the fuck now. On April 21st, 1962, when Graham was 14,

his stepmother Molly was rushed to the hospital in excruciating pain where she died. Uh-oh. Apparently, she was writhing in pain in the garden while Graham just watched and tranced. Doctors attributed her death to a prolapsed cervical disc from a car accident. But as it turns out, Graham had been slowly poisoning her with antimonyony but she had developed a tolerance so it wasn't it was like building up in her system oh no the night before he was like fuck this i'm gonna dose her with talium to speed things up and then she died and she was promptly cremated so they couldn't

even exhume her later and like look into this as it as if it were more suspicious the family was like that's what you wanted cervical disc bye-bye can you die from a prolapse disc i'm not sure i get if it like gets affects your spine maybe yeah maybe there's a lot of there's a lot going on in the spine. I don't fuck with the spine. So I hear. Lots of tips there, though. Lots of tips. If you're going to poison people, don't give them really small amounts so that they build up a tolerance because you're just making, you're working hard, not smart there. There's lots of problems in the future for you. Also, if you do poison somebody and they start writhing around in pain, much like the poison yourself a little bit, makes you look very suspicious if you don't look concerned.

Correct. Don't stand there enjoying what's happening. Enjoying it. Entranced. Don't look entranced. Exactly. That's the word I was looking for. Thank you, Lucy.

He's 14 years old at this point. Which is so gross. Also, hot tip. Don't do this. Because at Molly's fucking wake graham poisoned another relative oh dear soon after his father then became very ill and almost died but survived by this point graham had developed a trusted technique He would slip the poison into people's tea. And because Brits drink so much goddamn tea,

it was open season, baby. This earned him the nickname, the teacup poisoner. At the wake, he had laced an entire jar of mustard pickle, whatever the fuck that is, with antimony. So many people around this kid are getting sick and people are like this is sus we're gonna look into this there are two different accounts of what happened next and they very well may both be true first it's reported that his beloved aunt winnie

knew about his fascination with chemistry a hem poison and she got suspicious and she had him sent to a psychiatrist who recommended calling the police another report said his headmaster had found bottles of various poisonous chemicals in his desk and the school set up a fake interview with a career advisor who was actually a psychiatrist graham went to this interview and revealed an extensive knowledge of poisons chemicals and toxicology don't give it away don't talk about it just say you don't know anything about any poisons i mean he's really bad at this well i mean i think i'm not saying that this guy is like my husband but i think of my husband who's typically a little bit quieter but once you get him talking about

his hobbies yeah it's game over he's gonna tell you everything he knows and he's going to he's like amy from pottery cottage yes no one and this kid's 14 so and now he's like somebody wants to talk to me about my favorite ever thing poison yep i know loads poison regardless of which or both happened in in May of 1972, the police are finally contacted. Graham is arrested. And he did confess to poisoning his father, stepmother, and Christopher, that friend from school that got sick. He was sent to Broadmoor, the famed high security psychiatric hospital near Liverpool. And at 14, he was one of the hospital's youngest ever inmates.

Wow. And at 14, he was one of the hospital's youngest ever inmates. One of his psychiatrists, Dr. Christopher Fisch, F-Y-S-H, recounted that Young told him, quote, I am missing my antimony. I miss the power it gives me. Stop it. Don't say that. I'm giving him a Voldemort. What's his name?

Joffrey? No. God damn it. Draco Malfoy. My father will hear about this. I'm missing my antimony. Poor, desolate Weasleys. I don't know, whatever.

Harry Potter. Despite some suspicious poisoning activity during his stay at Broadmoor, it was never proven that he was behind it, although I think him being there and people being poisoned is proven of. Poisoner of Broadmoor. We don't know if he's done it. Can I think him being there and people being poisoned is proof enough. The poisoner of Broadmoor. We don't know if he's done it.

Can't tell if it's him. One such poisoning resulted in the death of John Barrage by cyanide. This is a quote from biography.com. Quote, Graham claimed to have extracted cyanide from laurel bush leaves,

which must have been on the property. But his confession was not taken seriously, and Barrage's death was recorded as a suicide. On other occasions, staff and inmates' drinks were found to have been tampered with, including the introduction of an abrasive sodium compound, commonly called sugar soap, used for preparing painted walls. So it's like paint thinner, basically.

Primer or something. Yeah. Into a tea urn yeah i'm currently looking into how to paint kitchen cabinets you need sugar soap scrub it down then paint it very yep it's caustic that's gonna get looks like a stripper stripper yep yeah so he this was found in a tea urn that could have caused mass poisoning had it not been discovered. So people didn't drink that, thank God. He continued to read widely about poisoning, although he began to keep his obsession increasingly well hidden because like everyone knew you were doing it.

When authorities made it clear that appearing less obsessed would speed up his release. His father, Fred, requested or maybe demanded that he never be released from the hospital. I can't deal with him. I couldn't when he was a baby and I was single. I can't now that he's a poisoner, like Nazi-obsessed weirdo. And despite a nurse reporting that he told her, quote, when I get out, I'm going to kill one person

for every year I've spent in this place. Stop it, Graham. He was deemed cured and released within like a year overcrowding he has spent eight months there overcrowding yeah they're just like the under funding overcrowding shit out you go in the states it's not under funding because our prisons are like all fucking privatized and generate a fuck ton of revenue but they are definitely overcrowded and understaffed for reasons of capitalism they don't want to pay people anyway that's a whole other day graham gets out he goes to live with his sister winifred and her husband hemel hempstead and he

quickly got back hemel hempstead oh there's a nice aqua splash there. Yeah. That's also where I used to go and do my sports days. I don't know what that means, but that's really cute. Aqua splash is a, it's a water park, an inside water park where you can go and. Have a birthday party when you're eight. Yeah, you can go swimming and there's like a Burger King inside. Or when you're 37. Yeah, right. Yeah.

I mean, we didn't meet until we were in our 20s, but we both had birthdays at that aqua splash in our youth. If you grew up anywhere in this area, that's where you went. All right. I mean, we didn't meet until we were in our 20s, but we both had birthdays at that aquasplash in our youth. If you grew up anywhere in this area, that's where you went. All right. Well, so you're aware. It's also got a magic roundabout. I love how every little town has a thing. You guys are just like, oh, yes, the aquasplash. Whether it's Stonehenge or an aquasplash.

Hemel Hempstead also has a magic roundabout. Oh. What does that mean? What happens when you use it? Whether it's Stonehenge or an aquasplash. Hemel Hempstead also has a magic roundabout. Oh. What does that mean? What happens when you use it? So there's a big roundabout, and then around the roundabout, like a flower, are mini roundabouts. So you have to do the mini roundabouts

and the big roundabouts all at the same time, and it's very stressful. That sounds fucking awful. It is, truly. i have never done it correct yeah ever because you guys don't like roundabouts are the best of times do you i mean it depends if you learn to drive in in cities on the east coast like boston has a lot of roundabouts and people learn to drive there and then they know how to fucking use them now they're trying to put them it's very polarizing in the midwest it's polarizing in the

midwest because we had never had them and in the last like decade they've been putting them everywhere my family's all in the boston area so i'm familiar with roundabouts and know how to use them people here do not fucking know how to use them and then they stop and get scared and don't they don't understand the merge it's it's it sure. It's bad. It's very polarizing. It's hilarious. It is. So Graham goes to the Aqua Splash in Hamel Hempstead. Yeah.

Upon his release, he quickly gets back on his bullshit. He's poisoning left and right. He purchases antimony because he missed it. And this is a metalloid that is often powdered and used in cosmetics and medicine. So it's not like incredibly hard to acquire. He also bought talium, which is a toxic heavy metal that is water soluble. It can also be in the form of salts and aerosols.

And he got these from a London chemist. On paper, Graham was a real go-getter. He attended a storekeeping training course in slough. Or is it slough? Slough. Come friendly bombs and fall on slough. It isn't fit for humans now. He's a really famous poet. Wow, I love that. I just love

everything that comes out of your mouth. I really do too. It's also where the UK office is set. It's in Slough. No way! You have your own office? Well, no. The original version of the office, the television show, is set in Slough. I thought the UK version of the office the television show is set in slough

i thought the uk had an office i thought you were goading me and i was like all right bitch excuse me it was an original british i didn't know we were talking about the show i thought you had a literal office. Oh my God. That was amazing. So while he was taking this training course in Slough, he stayed at a hotel in nearby Kippenham. There he made friends with a 34-year-old guy

named Trevor Sparks. They'd have drinks together. Bad idea. And one night, Graham gave him a glass of water and he soon fell violently ill he's got he's got diarrhea he's got pins and needles in his legs he's got pain in his balls are we sure it wasn't an espresso martini sir he's been like turbo i've had these symptoms my balls have never recovered. Over the next few months, he would periodically get these symptoms again, and he could not figure out why.

Doctors thought it could have been a UTI or a kidney infection. But regardless, Trevor moved away from Slough and miraculously recovered. Shortly thereafter. I don't want to say bad shit about Slough, but you said it for me it could have just been the water let's be real shortly thereafter graham got a job at of all fucking places a lab that manufactured infrared lenses for military equipment and this equipment was made from fucking tal. So he had so much access to this metalloid now. He went to work at John Hadland Laboratories. His co-workers were aware of his stay at Broadmoor, but didn't know the details. They didn't know why he was there.

And he was there as a miner. So if it were in the U.S., I would imagine that would be like concealed information to protect anonymity. I don't know if they have the same thing in Britain, but it's possible that that information was not publicly available because of his age when he was put into that. They also didn't have the internet. So like, true, who's going to call like call if they even have phones and like figure out no one's going to look into this. as such when graham was super eager to get everyone tea and coffee throughout the day they just thought he was being such a nice guy and each employee also had their own specific mug that they used to get their drinks throughout the

day so he would like know exactly who's drinking from what cup soon a mysterious sickness swept through the lab so are we saying another takeaway from this story is if you work in an office much like if you're scared of getting kidnapped don't use the same route every day do not use the same mug every day in case there is an office poisoner i don't think it really mattered in this case because i think he was poisoning the source i see but it's maybe the takeaway is bring your own beverages from home make your own tea don't trust the super nice guy who's for whatever reason very eager to be like the beverage errand boy who likes that job got it i was a bartender and i don't like that job. Tips all around. Yeah.

They all, once again, like last mass poisoning, assumed a bug was going around, which was dubbed the Bovington bug. And it wasn't until an employee named Bob Eggle, age 59, fully fucking died that people got suspicious. Bob was super sick while he was working and then he'd get better with a little time spent at home. Like he'd take a couple days off because he wasn't feeling well, only to get sick again when he came back to work.

So these people all work in this place that has a lot of this poison kicking around because of what they're manufacturing and yet nobody knows the signs of poisoning of that material. That's not happening. Okay, just to be clear.

Yeah. Please continue. His condition worsened until he finally died on July 7th of 1971. Graham is about 23 years old at this point. Eggle's death was attributed to a rare form of neuropathy called Gillian-Barr syndrome, which is a real thing, but wrong. That's not what did it.

While Bob was out of office during his bouts of illness, his assistant, Ron Hewitt, would take over. Ron had at this point accepted a position at another company and was working through his two weeks notice. Graham would be Ron's replacement. And he, Ron, had the bug as well. But after he left to go to this new job, he's perfectly fine. As a result of Bob's absence after Ron's departure, Graham is appointed head storming for just a few months.

It's like somebody's got to have this fucking job. May as well be Graham, the coffee guy. Another co-worker, Diana Smart, mysteriously got sick every time she annoyed Graham. Let's getting specific so here's where the specific cup was helpful for graham because even if he was like okay i don't want to get caught i'm gonna lay off mass poisoning all my co-workers but diana's being a real bitch so i'm gonna go to her cup two other workers david tilson and Jethro Batt, fell seriously ill in October of 1971. Graham was putting extra sugar in people's coffee to mask the taste of the tallium. And David was not a fan, so he wasn't drinking it.

But Graham persisted and David ended up in the hospital with numb legs, difficulty breathing and chest pains. And sore balls. And sore ass balls. His skin was so sensitive to the touch that he couldn't even stand the weight of bed sheets in the hospital, which, like, as someone on the autism spectrum with mostly sensory symptoms, I can viscerally feel that, like, in my nervous system.

He was also losing all of his hair he was like it was falling out in clumps he recovered after some time in the hospital you know not being poisoned but the poisoning caused permanent impotence so like if he had ever wanted to have children it's kind of game over something similar happened to Jethro, who had been actual friends with Graham, who later expressed regret at trying to kill one of his actual friends. So Graham has a little bit of regret in him.

Soon after Bob's death, another employee named Fred Biggs, who was 56 at the time, began experiencing mysterious and horrible symptoms. After the typical chest pains, et cetera, his central nervous system deteriorated to the point that he could not speak

and had trouble breathing and his skin began to peel off. This shit is so fucked up. Yeah. I can't. I mean, mercifully in this scenario, Fred passed away

in November of 1971. I mean, what a painful and horrific death these people experienced. I like it reminds me of like radiation poisoning. Yes. I would say that. Like it. Yeah, it sounds fucking horrifying. He had been experiencing these similar symptoms as Bob and Jethro and David and about 70 other

employees. So people are nervous and they are suspicious. If I'm, I would just assume like, okay, we need to do a serious like inventory audit of like where the chemicals are going. Cause I would immediately be like, oh my God, something's like leaking into the water or, you know. They haven't even connected it. They haven't even connected it at this point. They're about to.

Yeah, they're about to. About time. Finally. So it was, okay. And because he was a murderous man, Graham just couldn't help himself even though everyone around him

is now freaking out and like they're obviously on high alert about these issues. He's obviously enjoying it by this point, right? Because if he just wanted to kill these people for some reason, because they were annoying co-workers or whatever, like he could have just done it much more quickly. He's doing it slowly because he's enjoying the confusion and the paranoia and the fear. And the power that he has. And the slow death because, again, if you really want to poison somebody, you could choose a poison that is a lot more efficient and fast acting and immediate.

But he's choosing one that is particularly brutal and agonizing and slow. So, yeah, I mean, it speaks so much to his psychopathology that he is just drawing this out as much as he can. I think he's also a fucking narcissist who wants to be the smartest person in the room because he also does this. He asks the staff doctor why they didn't suspect talium poisoning because the cause of the illnesses and deaths yeah yeah have these symptoms and it's used on site i mean he's like those firefighters that set fires and then turn up at the scene and then they're the hero it's much like savior complex he's rolling into this whole poisoner angle he's got going this suggestion struck the doctor as odd because graham was just a store man

he wasn't like in the lab working with these chemicals but he knew so much about toxicology in addition to the fact that graham himself never got sick as he himself reported to his supervisor like i haven't been sick but could it be this? At least if you're not going to go through with the commitment of poisoning yourself, pretend. Act sick. Yes. Think about it. Yeah.

So the staff doctor, thankfully, contacts the police, and a background check is done on Graham, which exposes his history as a poisoner. Graham was arrested on November 20th, 1971. He maintained his innocence, but he was being led away. But as he was being led away, his aunt Winnie heard him ask one of the officers, quote, which one is it you're doing me for? Like,

which death? Which murder? Which one did you catch me for? Did they not check his poisoning record before they gave him the job at the poison filled factory? No. It doesn't sound like background checks were standard. And the fact that they knew he was at Barstool or whatever was probably because he.

Broadmoor. Broadmoor. Broadchurch. Was because he provided that information as in like a show of good faith to be like yeah this is my history i did i was a troubled teen i spent a stint here but like i'm reformed and i'm super into chemistry and nazi so you should totally hire me but yeah so his room at his apartment or yeah at his apartment is searched and the police find quite a lot of talium and antimony, plus a ton of Nazi paraphernalia. They also found, which is my favorite thing when perps do this, a fucking diary.

Dear diary. Dear diary. God bless. Today Diana really pissed me off. Literally, lady died. There actually is an entry about her we'll get to it he had been keeping this diary the entire time noting the doses he had administered their effects and whether he was going to allow each person to live or die he was watching them like lab rats as he administered his

poisons and took notes on their symptoms. Yeah. And then as their symptoms escalated, he would consult his diary and write down like, okay, I'm going to finish this one off. Yeah. He also included his victims' initials to identify them in his notes. So thanks, Graham, for being so thorough and making it so easy to put you away. So our girl Dianaiana smart this was the entry about her quote die irritated me yesterday so i packed her off home with an attack of sickness i only gave her something to shake her up i now regret that i didn't give her a larger dose

capable of laying her up for a few days a few days in interviews after his arrest graham said that he deliberately used different poisons in order to confuse doctors he also boasted of having committed the perfect murder by killing his stepmother molly young he spent 20 if you get caught yeah but he didn't get caught for a really long time he didn't get caught until he slaughtered half of his co-workers yeah i would say it's the pretty good murder i don't think i drove perfect that's a decent murder you you got away with it for a while you did okay he spent 20 minutes explaining to the officers the effects that talium has on the human body because he can't fucking help himself.

He's like such a poison nerd. When asked why he had poisoned people who were his friends and colleagues, he responded, I suppose I had ceased to see them as people. At least a part of me had. They were simply guinea pigs. This man is sick. A lot of self-awareness at this point, though. I mean, I can appreciate a perpetrator just giving it all up

so they don't have to drag the families through a horrific, you know, trial watching them deny everything that was happening. But, like, the damage is done, bitch. You're a piece of shit. Graham was charged with two counts of murder, two counts of attempted murder four counts of administering poison with intent to injure and four alternative counts of administering poison

with intent to cause grievous bodily harm he did plead not guilty which made it hard to find a lawyer willing to represent him because it was so obvious that he had done it finally he got a guy named sir arthur irvine qc to represent him and uh oh my god this is funny for only me and lucy but the lead for the lead prosecutor for the prosecution was a man named john leonard and we went to high school with a guy named john leonard hi john you might be listening we love you the trial was held at st albans Crown Court and began on June 19th, 1972. The prosecution called 75 witnesses to give testimony. So, like, good luck, Graham. Graham himself was the only witness in the defense.

Just him defending himself. During the trial. Not even Winnie. No, not even his own aunt or sister were're gonna fucking stick up for this fucker during the trial the cremains of bob eggle were analyzed and the results were presented as evidence they contained a lot of talium and this was the first instance of cremated ashes being used as evidence in a murder conviction. Because usually that evidence is destroyed. But there was so fucking much in his system that it survived the process of cremation and they could find it in his cremains.

How wild is that? That's mad. That's mad, truly. After just an hour and a half, the jury found the teacup poisoner guilty of the two counts of murder, plus enough other shit to lock him away for life. Graham asked to be sent to a regular prison

and not to be returned to Broadmoor. He was sent to Ashworth Hospital, where he continued to indulge in Nazi material and like writings and books. On the night of August 1st, 1990, he was found dead in his cell and the cause of death was listed as myocardial infraction or a heart attack.

But because Graham had no history of heart disease and he was only 42 it has been speculated that he either died by suicide via poison or was murdered by other prisoners or prison staff who didn't feel safe around him which i don't condone but i kind of get because everywhere this guy goes, people get poisoned. Literally, it happened at Broadmoor. So, like, I'd be nervous, too. I think he poisoned himself. I think he probably did.

But there you go. And if you are interested in seeing a cinematic version of this entire case, there is a 99 movie called The Young Poisoner handbook and it's about graham young and he also has had his oh god i hate this he also has his own wax figure at madame tussauds in london i bet y'all it's in the dungeon though it's in like the the horror it's not on display or you could still go down. No, no, it's in like, oh, it's not on display anymore. Oh, no, that's what I'm asking. Is that what in the dungeon is? Oh, no, no. The dungeon is like when you go to Madame Tussauds,

they have like all of the celebrities and then they have like a scary bit where they have like British murderers and serial killers and like, you know, executioners and Jack the Ripper and stuff like that. So it's not like, oh, you can, it's not like oh you can it's not like he's next to kim kardashian he's in like the dungeon part oh god well thank you and say there that's the teacup poisoner folks wow that was great i've never been to madame tussauds and no i never will no same i have it's great but i haven't been to the one in London. Don't go. But Madame Tussauds does a great Nick Cage, let me tell you. Oh, that is good to know.

Indistinguishable from his normal self. Oh, that was great. I feel like we really did bad Brits some justice in this episode. Definitely. Thank you so much for us teaming up today. Absolutely. We had guys so much. Teaming up today. Absolutely. We had a great time. Teaming up. You love a pun.

You Brits love a pun. We do love a pun. That's it. Done. Print it. That was awesome. We had a great time. And hopefully our listeners did too.

So yeah, if you guys are listening listening go check out wine and crime wherever you listen to your podcasts and we will see you all next week for back to ordinary programming episode until then keep calm and carry on cheerio To the pit. I'm Jake Warren, and in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now, exclusively on Wondery+. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti.

It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me. And it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either until I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings,

spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness. And inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more. Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying

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