RedHanded - Episode 381 - Ellen Greenberg Part 1: “You’ve Got A Murder Up There”

Episode Date: January 9, 2025

If you believe the official report, Ellen Greenberg stabbed herself: at least 20 times in the back, neck, stomach, chest, and through her scalp, hard enough to pierce her own brain. And only after all that – say the authorities – did she plunge the knife four inches into her own stomach.In 2011, despite blindingly obvious evidence to the contrary, Philadelphia’s police ruled the 27-year-old schoolteacher’s death as a suicide. And – thanks to a few suspicious decisions and the very shoddiest of shoddy police work – almost every chance of ever securing justice for Ellen was quite literally scrubbed away.Exclusive bonus content:Wondery - Ad-free & ShortHandPatreon - Ad-free & Bonus EpisodesFollow us on social media:YouTubeTikTokInstagramXVisit our website:WebsiteSources available on redhandedpodcast.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad free. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, the Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Saruti. I'm Hannah. And welcome to Red Handed. And 2025. Happy New Year.

Happy New Year. This is the start of another very exciting year at Red Handed. Who knows what's gonna happen? No. Every time I open my emails there's something new in there. No, you just defeat your enemies. Do no harm, take no shit. That's the motto. And yeah, we've got a got a hell of a case to get started here at Red Handed. So let's just get into it. In 2011, a young woman was found dead in her home, having been stabbed at least 20 times in the head, scalp, neck, stomach and chest.

Authorities ruled it a suicide. And today, 14 years later, her family are still fighting for justice. This locked-room mystery, with its creeping corruption, unbelievably bad police work, and I have to say, the worst 911 call that I have ever heard, is one of the strangest cases we've ever come across. It's been on my list for quite some time, but after a little update in December 2024, just a little one, we figured it was time to finally wrap our heads around this incredibly bizarre story. So strap in and prepare yourselves, because we have a hell of a two-parter to kick off Red Hander 2025.

Ellie Greenberg was a 27-year-old first-grade teacher. She worked at the Juanita Park Academy in Philadelphia, and lived with her partner of three years, Sam Goldberg, who worked for NBC Sports on the golf production team. How fucking boring. Sam and Ellie lived in the Venice Lofts apartment complex in the Maniank neighborhood, a trendy, artsy part of the city full of young professionals and bougie cafes. The pair were engaged and in January 2011, which is where our story starts,

they had just sent out their save the date cards and they were planning on getting married in the August of the following year. On the 26th of January, Ellie left school early. There was a big snowstorm coming and so the kids had all been sent home. On her way back to the apartment, she stopped by a petrol station and filled up her car. When she got home, she got down to some wedding planning and texted with her mum. When she got home, she got down to some wedding planning and texted with her mum. That afternoon, at around 4.45pm, Sam left the couple's flat and headed down to the gym, which was on the ground floor of their building.

He returned about 35 minutes later, at just after 5.15pm. But he couldn't get into the apartment. The door was locked from the inside. According to Sam, he repeatedly knocked on the door, shouted for Ellie, tried phoning her mobile, texting her and emailing her too. But there was no reply. And he was starting to get annoyed, which is very evident through the series of texts that he sent his fiancee between 5.32 and 5.54pm. Which go like this. Hello. Open the door. What are you doing? I'm getting pissed. Hello. You better have an excuse. What the fuck? Ah! You have no idea.

Now these texts garner a lot of like speculation on the internet, a lot of like scrutiny and a lot of people being like, they're so abusive. I would say at this point, those text messages, I could see myself sending those. I could be like, I told you I was going down to the gym. I come back and the doors lock from the inside. I'd be annoyed as well. I'd maybe go from being annoyed to worried

after getting no reply for all that time. But yeah, annoyed would be a feeling that I'd be feeling. So with no other way of getting in and with Ellie seemingly ignoring him, Sam went downstairs, found the security guard and concierge of their building, who's a man called Philip Hinton. Sam asked Philip if he would be able to help him get into his apartment because he was locked out, and Philip said that he was sorry. He couldn't, he wasn't allowed.

So Sam asked if it would be okay if he broke the door down himself. Philip advised him not to, saying that Sam would be charged for any damage he did. But after having been locked out for nearly an hour now, Sam figured that it was worth it, so he went back up to his sixth floor apartment and broke the door down. Once inside, Sam saw Ellie on the floor of the kitchen. She was splayed out with her head and shoulders propped up against the bottom cabinets, where the cabinets met at a corner between the sink and the hob. Her legs were spread in front of her in a V-shape.

There was blood on the floor, and Ellie wasn't moving. At 6.30pm, Sam Goldberg called 911. Two EMT firefighters were the first to respond. They were soon followed by uniformed police, detectives and an investigator from the Medical Examiner's Office. Ellie was pronounced dead on the scene. Sam told them what had happened, that he'd been at the gym and when he returned the door was locked from the inside and Ellie was dead. Sam was taken in for questioning, but to this day we have never seen a transcript of that

interview, because Philadelphia has an interesting quirk to its state law. As standard, police case files are never, ever made public, even if the case is closed or once it's been adjudicated. Essentially, it's the total polar opposite of the Florida Sunshine Law. So it's certainly not always sunny in Philadelphia. Very nice. Thank you. I think I'm kind of fine with that though. Obviously, as a true crime poker, it does make our lives a lot easier if you can read them, but I think in general I'm okay. Yeah, it's tricky because a case like this is the perfect example of like the problems that poses because it's like when anything is done in the dark or with secrecy or the

public feel like there's a lack of transparency, you're just going to get accused of all sorts of conspiracies and cover-ups and ill-goings on. And, you know, I could totally see why with this case. But obviously also the flip side is the Florida Sunshine Law. Everything is happening out in the sunshine and it leads to the public perhaps having too much information. It's a fine balance, I think. But definitely this whole quirk of Philadelphia law, the fact that we

have never been able to, and most likely will never be able to see the police files behind the death, has definitely made this story even more shrouded in mystery than I first thought it would be. But to be honest, the secretive case files are truly just the tip of the grubby iceberg with this situation. Because as we told you at the start, the police decided on the scene that night that this was a suicide. And despite all the evidence to the contrary that has come out over the past 14 years, the Philadelphia Police Department have stuck firmly to that conclusion.

And they have fought Ellie's parents every step of the way. Having said that, there are people out there who think that this conclusion drawn by the police was correct, and still is, and that Ellie really did take her own life that day. And they think that for the following reasons. The apartment door was locked from the inside, there was no one else in the flat, they lived on the sixth floor and the snow on the balcony hadn't been disturbed so nobody had got in and out that way. And all of those things do make suicide look like the only possible scenario. A scenario

only made more likely when you coupled the locked door with the fact that Ellie had been having a tough time in the lead-up to her death. She was struggling with anxiety and had been trying a variety of different medications in an attempt to ease her symptoms, some of which a great injustice. Suicidal ideation is a side effect more than you would think. Ellie had also texted her parents a few weeks before she died saying that she wanted to come home to Harrisburg because she was struggling at work. Her parents suspected that Ellie wasn't telling them the whole truth, so they said that she absolutely could come home whenever

she wanted but perhaps she should try and speak to a therapist before she made any big decisions like quitting her job and moving home. And yes, also, suicides involving self-stabbing are incredibly rare. Apparently, they only constitute for about 2% of suicides in the US, and nearly all of those deaths involve men. When women take their own lives, they tend not to go out with such violent methods. And when on the rare occasion they do stab themselves, there's usually only a single stab wound, bar perhaps the hesitation marks that you'd expect. Are we including wrist slitting as stabbing?

No, so they're specifically talking about self-stabbing rather than cutting. And also, when people tend to kill themselves through self-stabbing, they almost always lift up their clothes and stab themselves directly through the skin, rather than through their clothes. But the wounds to Ellie's stomach and chest had all been inflicted through two tops and a zip-up sweatshirt. But, to quote Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, when you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must

be the truth. I'm amazed it has taken us nearly ten years to put that one in there. How? Well there you go, it's about time. So yeah, with that said, it has to be suicide, right? The police must truly have eliminated all other possibilities. So even though the likelihood of it being suicide seems so remote, it has to be that, right? They have to have eliminated anything else like, I don't know, murder? Not even fucking close. And over the next two weeks, we are going to be getting into all of the ways in

which they weren't even close. But just to set the scene as to how much they didn't look into this properly, the investigator from the medical examiner's office who was there that night missed all 10 of the stab wounds to Ellie's back, the back of her neck and the back of her head all together. Because like we told you at the start, Ellie Greenberg had 20 stab wounds to her body at least. They only counted 10 that night because they didn't even look at her back. So you would have to forgive me for thinking that they didn't exactly do the most thorough job that night.

You have to forgive me for thinking that they didn't exactly do the most thorough job that night. So get this, the Ontario Liberals elected Bonnie Cromby as their new leader. Bonnie who? I just sent you her profile. Check out her place in the Hamptons. Huh, fancy. She's a big carbon tax supporter, yeah? Oh yeah, check out her record as mayor.

Oh get out of here, she even increased taxes in this economy. Yeah, higher taxes, carbon taxes. She sounds expensive. Bonnie Crombie and the Ontario Liberals. They just don't get it. That'll cost you. A message from the Ontario PC Party. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to light some of the biggest controversies in U.S US history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announce they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath,

investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster. Follow American Scandal on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondry+. You can join Wondry+, in the Wondry app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial today. First responders on the scene, the ENT firefighters, were sure that what they were looking at was a homicide. They even told Philip Hanton, who's the building's security guard slash concierge, on their way out, you've got a murder up there. And after the EMT firefighters left, they went to the police station thinking that homicide would want to interview them.

You know, being the first people on the scene. But no one would ever interview them. It does kind of seem like the police wanted to brush this entire case under the carpet quite quickly. And that may have had something to do with who was waiting downstairs at the Venice Loft's apartment complex. Sam Goldberg, as it turned out, is a well-connected man from an influential family. And when he apparently came back to the apartment at 5.26pm after his woeful 35-minute gym session, and after he spent 45 minutes being locked outside his flat and before he decided to break down the door, Sam Goldberg phoned his cousin, came in like Damien but with a K, Schwartzman, and he called him at about 6.14pm. Is Damien with a K a locksmith? Or maybe does he have a party trick where

he can open a locked door over the phone? No, he does not. But Kamien Schwartzman does happen to be a lawyer. Kamian and Sam spoke on the phone for about five minutes. Then Sam hung up. At 6.26pm, so about five minutes after the chat with cousin Kamian ended, Sam received a call from his uncle, Kamian's dad, James Schwartzman. Uncle Jimmy, as he's known, is also a lawyer. It would be five minutes after this call at 6.31pm that Sam Goldberg, now having broken down the door and found Ellie, called 911.

Uncle Jimmy is a huge part of this story, and also a huge part of the potential corruption kicking around this case. He's been described as politically important in the city of Philadelphia, because Uncle Jimmy is a former prosecutor, and at the time, 2011, he was the vice chairman of the board of directors of the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, of the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, and he is now, at the time we are recording this, the President Judge of the Pennsylvania Court of Judicial Discipline. So he's essentially a judge of judges.

He oversees the ethics of other lawyers in Pennsylvania. He is definitely not an unimportant man. But there are people out there who are involved in this case, who say that yeah, absolutely, Uncle Jimmy is this big, hot shot lawman, but he doesn't have that level of crazy sway with the police to the point that they wouldn't investigate a murder because of him. Bollocks. And look, I don't know. Hear me out if we go with the people that believe that.

Like I said, I absolutely do think that Uncle Jimmy is a fucking corrupt bastard. And I'm also not saying he's not involved in many ways for how this case unfolded. But I suspect that Uncle Jimmy, rather than outright telling the police, you aren't going to investigate my nephew for murder or I'll fucking Uncle Jimmy, rather than outright telling the police, you aren't going to investigate my nephew for murder or I'll fucking have you, I think possibly it was that he and Kamian were able to exploit the police's stupidity and help Sam successfully navigate this entire situation with their confident know-how of the law. Like they get him the best attorney straight away, they tell him what to say.

I think they also bulldoze the police in many ways. I suspect what really happened here, and look I may well be wrong and we're going to get into everything else next week around the potential outright corruption, but I suspect what really happened here is that the police fucked up beyond belief on that night, treated this as a suicide because they were too quick to take the word of this influential family and then they went on to spend the next decade and a half covering it up. And as for the medical examiner's office, we'll get into them in detail next week for the role that they played. I will also

say like I could not really find the name of the lead detective on this case. All I know is there were 13 police officers who came and went from that scene that night. I suspect if there is a role to be played between Uncle Jimmy and the police and him having outright influence on them, it's gotta be the lead detective. And him having told that person, no, no, no.

But I can't find any evidence for outright conversations. But again, so much of this case is shrouded in mystery. We have to just pick apart what we do know. And we'll also see over this week and the next, this case was kicked from department to department within law enforcement. And so many people, so obviously, wanted to mask and cover up the shit show of what happened. But when

people like the assistant DA Guy DeAndrea wanted to investigate this case again in 2015, his boss didn't stop him from doing so. And DA Guy found Ellie's case file literally gathering dust in a cupboard under some Christmas decorations and he was shocked when he read it. He asked if he could look into it and his boss gave him the green light which if there was power being exerted from Uncle Jimmy or anyone else does seem a bit unlikely that he would have been allowed to go ahead. Ellie's death had already been ruled a suicide. Guy's boss could easily have told him not to waste his time or resources on this. But she didn't. And Guy pursued the case, but

realised that there was a total dearth of evidence because of how the police had failed to investigate properly right at the start. Now for those of you convinced that there is definitely more outright corruption involved and it's not just us covering, I honestly don't blame you. And don't worry, we will definitely talk about the then AG, now Governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro and his involvement in this case next week. So don't think I'm writing off the corruption. I just think a lot of it has to do with how the police barked up beyond belief that first night and what transpired after.

But for now, we're going to stick with the night of Ellen's death and the days that followed straight after. And we're going to do that because it's so crucial to understanding what happened and why we are still here where we are with this case today. Following his call with Sam, Kamian arrived at the apartment complex before the EMTs even got there. And I think this is such an important point,

because remember, Sam called his cousin Kamian first and they spoke from 6.14 to 6.19 pm. Then Sam spoke to Uncle Jimmy. For Kamian to have reached the apartment complex from where he lived by 6.34 pm, so that's before the EMTs, he would have had to have left as soon as his call with Sam ended. But according to the lawyer representing Kamian and Jimmy, apparently both of the men were still on the phone to Sam when he broke down the door and found Ellie and they heard him, apparently, lose it when he saw Ellie on the floor. But if that's the case, it makes even less sense. His whole timeline makes even less sense.

Because Sam calls Kamian, they talk, hang up, Uncle Jimmy calls 5 minutes later, presumably after having spoken to his son Kamien. And then Kamien, who must have left his house by now, so as soon as that call with Sam ended, to head to the apartment because he gets there before the EMTs, why was he added into this conference call with Uncle Jimmy and Sam? Why would you need to do that? Because all this, this second call, would have been before Sam allegedly knew that there was a bigger problem than him just being locked out of his flat.

Why were they all on a group call trying to solve that problem? And I'm sorry, but I don't care how close you are. Who goes out in a snowstorm to help their cousin just get back into their locked apartment? Me. I would do that for basically anybody. But I'm like, okay, so fine. We're like, Kamian is a great guy. He's like, I'm coming for you, Sam.

I'm going to come help you get into that door. My problem still stands. He would have had to have left as soon as that call ended in order to get there before the EMTs in that shorter space of time. So we're saying that Sam calls Kamian, they speak five minutes, hang up. Kamian must have called Uncle Jimmy, we don't know because we don't have the phone records. Then Uncle Jimmy calls Sam, they're both speaking. Kamian must have left. But then he's added into this conference call.

So the three of them are talking about how Sam is locked out of his apartment. And then while he's on the phone to them, he breaks down the door, quote unquote, finds Ellie, quote unquote, has a panic attack, which is what the two men say they heard. Why is came in on the phone with him? Cause all they know before the door is broken down is that Sam's locked out of his fucking apartment. Why did three men, how many men does it take to open a fucking locked door?

Why is that the conversation that's happening? That's the thing I struggle with. The only thing I can think to that is why are all these people on this conference call is because they had already been told what was behind that locked door. Now take your point, it does seem quite a lot. Because he's not out on the street, he's in the building. He's in the building. Yeah, no I think I would, I would.

If I was locked out of my building in a snowstorm, would you not come and help me? I would come and help you. I guess my point is, why would we need a three-way phone call with me, you and your uncle? Oh, no, I agree. That's my question. What are you two, what are we talking about that's that important? Yeah. Why does Uncle Jimmy need to be involved?

Because I find Sam's spoken to Cami and he's like, yeah, bro, I got you. I'm coming. I'm on my way, love you, going out in the snow. Why is he calling Uncle Jimmy, his dad, to give Sam a call? Does he need like a three-way hand-holding session until Kamien gets there? For what? It's just locked out of his house. He's been locked out for 45 minutes, he's already spoken to Philip Hampton. Like, I don't get why they're saying there's this three-way call. I don't get why they're saying there's a three-way call. And this phone call story is contradicted by evidence as well. Sam told the police that he forced his apartment door open at 6.29pm, but the phone records and more crucially the CCTV from the hallway in the apartment building shows that Sam was

not on the phone with the Schartzmans or anybody else at that particular time. But despite this, the Schwartzmans lawyer says that they still stick by the story. They are lying, it's obvious, but why are they doing that? We're going to tell you next week. This is the first of two attempts that Sam's family make to try and provide an eye, or in this case ear witness, to Sam quote unquote discovering Ellie. Yeah. Why else would they lie? Why else would they lie?

And if they are lying about something that's so easily refutable, why is it so important that Sam Goldberg needed an ear witness to finding Ellie? But sticking with the timeline of that night, Kamian, as we said, arrived just after 6.30. And he's followed soon after by his dad, Uncle Jimmy, and Sam's parents. They were all held downstairs while the police examined the scene and questioned Sam. But Uncle Jimmy kept asking to be allowed up to the flat, to which he was told that his nephew didn't need an attorney yet. Even the fact that Sam Goldberg, after Ellie is found, was taken to the North West Detectives

Unit to be questioned, rather than to homicide, even though he was taken in by homicide, is baffling. And it does feel like Sam's uncle was there pressing for this to happen, to avoid the optics of Sam being questioned in the Homicide Unit. And again, this is what we mean about Uncle Jimmy using his power and influence to steer the investigation from the off. We can't prove that the police were like, yeah, let's cover this up because it's him or because they were stupid and by the time they realized what they'd done, they

thought it was too late and they were in too deep. We will see. So meanwhile, Ellie's body was taken to the medical examiner's office. And while her parents, Joshua and Sandra Greenberg, were notified, sadly they were stuck because of the snow and couldn't get to her. The next morning, on the 27th of January 2011, at 9am, Dr Marlon Osborne carried out an autopsy on Ellie. And he ruled the cause of death to be multiple stab wounds, at least 20 to be precise. And the reason they can't be exactly sure is like the likelihood of multiple stab wounds

having landed in exactly the same place and it not being super clear. Now this was a shock to the police because as we said, the investigator from the scene had completely missed 10 of the stab wounds to Ellie's back, the back of her neck and her scalp. But things just went from bad to worse for the Philadelphia Police Department because Dr. Osborne noted in his preliminary report that the manner of death was homicide. Joshua Greenberg, Ellie's dad, was about to eulogize his daughter at a Harrisburg synagogue when he got the news that her death had been ruled a homicide, not a suicide. And as horrific as the news was, Mr Greenberg said he was happy.

It was bittersweet to know that Ellie hadn't killed herself. But you know who wasn't happy? The police. Because they now realised that they were in major shit. And that's because they had, as we've discussed as per our previous email, bizarrely and prematurely decided on the night before that Ellie's death was a suicide. And they had also left the scene totally unsecured. There was no crime scene tape, no officers, nothing.

They'd barely taken any photos even. They hadn't dusted for prints, and they hadn't used Luminol. The area wasn't searched properly at all and no neighbours were questioned. It is just so bad when you read it out like that. The crime scene team, as a matter of fact, were not even called out that night. So, because no luminol or anything like that had been used, we really don't know where else in the apartment blood was, or if there had been attempts to clean it up. In the time it took for Dr. Osborne's report to come out, the Philadelphia police had also allowed the building manager, a lady called Melissa Ware, into the apartment where Ellie had died and she was allowed to videotape the entire room. Which we can only assume was an attempt to protect her company against any questions about damage and condition with

regarding to the flat and this video does become important later on, although it may seem boring and administrative at this point so just put it in your brain holes one of them you can pick one I'm not gonna tell you. That same day so on the 27th of January so the day after Ellie died Melissa Ware had also received a call from none other than uncle Jimmy. He asked her if it would be okay for him to pop by the apartment and pick up a suit for his nephew Sam to wear to Ellie's funeral. Now obviously it might sound like quite a soon funeral for a lot of people, but it is my understanding that in the Jewish faith you do it like ASAP immediately. Now Melissa on hearing this did the right thing and checked with the police.

And they told her to go nuts. Sam's father even kindly offered to pay for a cleaning crew to take care of the apartment. The day after his future daughter-in-law died in there. Why is that your primary concern? It's not a flat they own. It's a rental flat. Why are you so bothered already offering up to pay for a crime scene cleanup? But again, the police didn't ask the questions we're asking. They just gave a big old thumbs up. The police even recommended a special

specific crime scene cleanup company who came by and got to work that same day. I agree that he's being nefarious. However, if I were to play devil's advocate, which I hate saying because I am not representing the devil in a court of law, when people die, especially if it is sudden, it is quite common for people to be like, okay, well, what do I do? What do I do next? We need to arrange a funeral, we need to get a rabbi, we need to do all of this, and maybe we need to clean it up. It is quite

a human re- I don't think that's why Jimmy's doing it, but it is quite a human reaction to be like, okay, well fuck, here we are, what do we do next? We can't just sit here. Sure. So I can see that. But as I said, I don't think that's why he's doing it. And I, you know, again, there are people who absolutely think that Ellie killed herself. And I'm glad that you are here being the, the quote unquote devil's advocate, as much as you don't want to say that term. Like, me with cases like this in any case we cover, it comes down to the totality of evidence right? It's like any of these things in isolation you

could be like well that doesn't prove anything. Add it all up and pretty soon you're looking at a big fat brick wall in front of you through which I cannot wiggle my way through. No and this is a particular unwiggler. As promised, Uncle Jimmy dropped by the apartment the day after Ellie died and he took Sam's suit away with him. And also he took Ellie's phone, her personal laptop, her work laptop, her handbag, her wallet, her credit cards and Sam's laptop as well. The suit, I can kind of understand. Why are you taking all of those things? her handbag, her wallet, her credit cards, and Sam's laptop as well.

The suit, I can kind of understand. Why are you taking all of those things? Good question. Now, Uncle Jimmy claims that it was to keep all these things safe. But then, a big question I have about that is why didn't you then take Ellie's engagement ring? It's a very expensive, very big ring and it was actually a family heirloom on the Goldberg side. Why are you leaving that there if you are taking

all of these other things to keep them safe from the cleaning crew? Because that ring was just left on the bedside table of the couple's room. Also, if Jimmy really did take these things to protect them, because he really believed that Ellie had killed herself, why didn't he give her belongings to her grieving family at the funeral? But he didn't. He kept them all. As you can see, the crime scene was totally fucked.

Any evidence that may have been there was long gone by now. The place had been cleaned and sanitised by a crime scene crew, and key items like Ellie's phone and her laptops were totally compromised, having fallen out of the chain of custody and into the hands of a person with a potentially enormous motive to tamper with them. And we will tell you what was on Ellie's laptop later on. But we also have to remember that all of this, the cleanup and the pickups, happened within a day of Ellie dying. And now the police were being told by the medical examiner that her death was going to be ruled as a

homicide and not a suicide as they first suspected and that meant that the Philadelphia Police Department were fucked. He was hip-hop's biggest mogul, the man who redefined fame, fortune and the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk Cafe, Sean Diddy Combs. in the music industry. Did he built an empire and live the life most people only dream about everybody no no party like a did he party so yeah. But just as quickly as his empire rose it came crashing

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real. From his meteoric rise to his shocking fall from grace, from law and crime, this is the rise and fall of Diddy. Listen to the rise and fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery+. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. Yeah, yeah, yeah! But when a social media fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last

fall, that was no protection. Claudine Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime and there's much more to come. This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On The Media. To listen, subscribe to On The Media wherever you get your podcasts. So let's have a quick chat about whose authority it is to rule with regards to manner of death in cases like this. Well, the police arrive at the scene, they collect evidence, the body goes to the medical examiner's office and the coroner

will consider the state of the body itself, so injuries, etc. and cause of death, but they will also consider for the manner of death the circumstances surrounding the death. So was the door latched from the inside, for example? And it is the medical examiner who ultimately rules on cause of death, the literal reason that the person died, so stab wounds or whatever. But it is also them who rules on the manner of death. And it will either be suicide, misadventure, undetermined or homicide. And then the police work with that to then close the case or build the case.

Here, the police had already closed the case before the ME had given his verdict. Very bad news pairs. So for now, let's follow the investigation. There's double air quotes. In the biggest air quotes imaginable. On the 28th of January 2011, the police got a search warrant and they went back to the flat, but of course we already know it had been professionally cleaned and sanitized by that point. And it's now that the police learn where all of Ellie's stuff had been taken.

And the police only got Ellie's laptops and her phone back into their possession on the 29th of January, so that means that Uncle Jimmy had them for a whole two days. This was now a murder investigation, but the police, thanks to their own stupidity, had completely destroyed any chance they had at finding vital evidence or securing justice. And for the next few months the messaging coming out of the Philadelphia Police Department was a total mess. It was so obvious that the police could not investigate this case. And the media jumped all over it.

Headlines screamed of no progress, incompetence, a killer on the loose, and also the complete lack of police updates to the Greenbergs. Philadelphia police and the prosecutors were now firmly stuck with a very high-profile killing of a pretty first-grade teacher from a prominent family who lived in a very safe part of town who was murdered in her own home. And they had no answers. Then, on the 4th of April 2011, the next plot twist surfaced. Dr Marlon Osborne, the pathologist who had ruled that Ellie's death was a homicide in his preliminary report, published his official report alongside Ellie's death certificate, report alongside Ellie's death certificate and this time the manner of death was listed once again as a suicide.

Like most of you listening, the Greenbergs couldn't believe it. They were destroyed that their daughter, their only child, Ellie, was dead. All they had wanted was justice. But now, to be told again that this was suicide, after all the things they had learned between January and April, about the night itself, the evidence and the piss-poor investigation, it must have been unbearable. Knowing that they needed all the help that they could get, in 2012 the Greenbergs hired civil rights attorney Larry Krasner. And Krasner agreed that there

were a hell of a lot of issues with regards to Ellie's death, but when he was elected as Philadelphia's DA he had to step away from the case. Krasner passed it to the state attorney general for review and it became clear straight away that the state attorney general and their office were dragging their collective feet. Enter Tom Brennan and Joseph Pedraza in 2013. Pedraza is the Greenberg's attorney

and he's been on this case with the family now for years. And Tom Brennan is my hero. He's a retired Pennsylvania State Police officer who trained with the FBI's Behavioral Sciences Unit. And he's said that when he took one look at this case, he knew people were lying. And he's been working on this case now for over a decade. Completely pro bono. And he's been working on this case now for over a decade. Completely pro bono.

Which was helpful, because he's an incredibly experienced investigator. But also because the Greenbergs estimate that they have now spent, at the time of recording this, well over $700,000 of their own money doing what the police should have done. That is a lot of money, and that is because expertise doesn't come cheap. Alongside Tom and Pedraza, the Greenbergs hired renowned forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril Wecht and Dr. Wayne Ross. And they both agreed that, quote, Based upon a reasonable degree of medical certainty, it is our professional opinion that the manner of death of Ellen Greenberg is strongly suspicious of homicide. So where are they getting that from? What is the evidence? Well, there's a lot of it and it's

definitely going to spill over into next week's episode as well when we get into the autopsy results specifically. But for now, let's start with what doctors Wecht and Ross found. They discovered that there was evidence of a stab wound which penetrated the cranial cavity and severed the cranial nerves of Ellie's brain. As a result, she would have experienced severe pain, cranial nerve dysfunction, and traumatic brain signs as well as symptoms including numbness, tingling, brachycardia, respiratory depression, neurogenic shock, and impaired loss of consciousness. All making it highly improbable that she would have been able to keep stabbing herself with

the force required for the final penetration, which was the knife going four inches into her own chest. Because remember that's where the knife's found so that has to be the last stab wound. And there's also the bruising. The doctors discovered bruising on Ellie's body in various different places and also in various states of healing, which possibly points to a sustained campaign of abuse in the weeks and months before her death. And then we've got the fresher bruising around Ellie's neck. Dr Ross said in his report, there was a mark over the front of the neck which is consistent with a fingernail mark.

There were multiple bruises under the neck and in the strap muscles over the right side of the neck. These patterns are compatible with manual strangulation. And if you really want to, you can argue all day long about whether Ellie could or would have been able to stab herself at least 20 times. But who, I implore you to consider strangles themselves to death with their own hands. I defy you to find one example. Yes. I also defy anybody to find me one example of a person who stabbed themselves to death over 20 times.

In the back. Yes. In the back. In the back of the head. Like I said, there is a lot more evidence that we're going to come onto when we talk about the autopsy next week. But for now, we're going to ruin your day. We're going to listen to the 911 calls that Sam Goldberg made after he claimed that he had found Ellie in the flat. I'm right over here, speaking out. I just walked into my apartment. Gee, I'm sitting on the floor with blood everywhere.

What is the address? 4601 Flat Rock Road. Please come and help. 4601 Flat Rock Road. Is this a house or apartment? Oh no, oh no. This is an apartment. This is an apartment.

What apartment number? Please tell me, please. Where did she bleed from? I don't know, I can't tell. You have to calm yourself down in order to get you some help. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. She I don't know. I'm looking at her right now. She I don't know. I can't see anything. She doesn't know there's nothing broken.

She's bleeped. Ellie. You don't know where she's bleeding from. Can you tell me what's coming from? I think her head. I think she hit her head. I think she's everywhere. I can you tell me what's coming from? I think her head, I think she hit her head, I think. But it's all over, everywhere. I think she might have fallen, do you know what happened to her? She may have slipped his blood on the table,

her face is a little purple. Okay, hold on for rescue for her, stay on the phone. Who was the address? No, it was... 4601 Flat Rock Road road please Harry. 4601 flat rock? Yes. Let's roll. I just went downstairs to go work out.

I came back up the door and the latch. My fiancee is inside. She wasn't answering so after about a half hour I decided to break it down. I see her now just on the floor with blood. She's not responding. Okay, is she breathing? Look at her chest. I need you to calm down.

I need you to look at her chest. It's really... I don't think she is. I really don't think she is. Listen to me. Someone's on the way. Look at her chest. Is she flat on her back?

She's on her back. So I bring her... Look at her chest and tell me if it's going up and down, up and down. I don't see her moving. Okay. Do you know how to do CPR? I don't. Okay, I can tell you what to do,

okay, until they get there. I want you to keep her phone. Oh, God. Hello? Yeah, hi, okay. Are you willing to do CPR with me over the phone so they can- I guess I have to, right?

Okay, so get her fed on her back, wear her chest, okay, you wanna rip her shirt off? Okay, heel down by her side. Oh my god. Ellie, please! Listen, listen, you can't freak out, sir, because you can't... Okay, I'm trying not to. Her shirt won't come off into the zipper. She stabbed herself!

Where? She fell on a knife! Oh no, her knife's sticking out! What? Her knife's sticking out of her heart! Oh, she stabbed herself? I guess so. I don't know where she's going. I don't know.

Okay, well don't touch it. Okay, so I'm just going to let her out of here now. I mean, what do I do? No, I mean, you can't. It's a knife that's at her chest. It's going to be kind of hard for you to do CPR at this time. Oh, no. Oh, my goodness.

Okay. Police, which operator? 677. Is someone coming here? Yes, they are. You said 4601 Flat Rock, right? Yes. Okay, someone's on the way.

And the knife is still inside? Mr. What? The knife is still inside of her? Yeah, but I didn't take it outside. Was it her chest or what area? It's in her chest. It looks like it's her chest. It looks like it's right in her heart.

Okay, someone's on the way out here. Can you just get to it? Oh my God, oh my God. It looks like it's right in her heart. OK, someone's on the way out there. Can you just get to her? Oh my god. Oh my god. How old is she? 27. 27.

There's no sign of life at all? No. No, please don't. What? Venture into her arm and tell me if she responds to pain. It's not her arm. Her hands are still warm. I don't know if that means, but it's whatever. I know but you can't and the knife is still inside of her. How far? Can you see how far one is? It looks pretty deep. Okay. It looks three and it's a long knife. Don't touch anything.

Yeah, don't touch anything. I'm not touching anything. I can't believe this. Wait, is it you there with her? Yeah, there's only one here. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Don't touch anything. Yeah, don't touch anything. I'm not touching anything. I can't believe this. Wait, it was just you there with her? Yeah, there was only one there.

And were you in the door? You said Lance did you touch? No, no, I went downstairs to work out and when I came back up the door was last. Like, you know, it was a block from the inside and I'm yelling and I'm trying to show him, you know, if you have anything in the... You're not touching anything? No, no, no, no, no. So you're not touching anything?

No, no, no, no. So you're not touching anything? No, no, no, no. So you're not touching anything? No, no, no, no. So you're not touching anything? No, no, no. So you're not touching anything?

No, no, no. So you're not touching anything? No, no, no. So you're not touching anything? No, no, no. So you're not touching anything? like, you know, it was a block from the inside and I'm yelling. And I was probably the strong man. You know, yelling at me. You're getting into? No, no, no, no, no. So there's no sign of a break in? No, no sign of a break in at all.

I mean, there will be when you get here because I had a break, a slash, but to get in. Okay, 4601 Flat Rock and it's in the house, right? It's an apartment. If I remember, apartment. Okay, that'll help. Oh my God. Oh my God. All right. Thank you.

Bye. Um, quite a lot to unpack there. Yeah. I mean, from the off, the two major things that stick out is he does seem quite concerned with establishing his alibi rather than helping her. Yeah. establishing his alibi rather than helping her. Yeah, I think the thing that stands out, if we go like start at least with the top of the call, is him being like,

I can't tell where the bleeding's coming from, right? I don't know if Sam Goldberg had blood on him or not when the police took him away. Like it's just something we don't have that information, right? If I came home and I found my partner lying unconscious on the floor with blood everywhere I'm gonna be touching them I'm gonna be picking them up I'm gonna be trying to see what's going on he is

like I can't tell I can't see where the bleeding is what do you mean you can't see where the bleeding is coming from? I mean if she's been stabbed 20 times you probably can't. All over? And the fact that he says he can't see the knife until he starts That's the bit the CPR. That's the bit like I you know quite often when you listen to 911 calls the person is getting frustrated because the dispatcher is asking seemingly innocuous questions, right? So one could argue that he's like, you know, I don't think this is why he's doing it, but could argue he's like, I'm just going to tell them the lead up so I don't have to deal with all of that shit because we've heard that hundreds of times.

And then that again, it's the totality of the whole thing like that on its own. I'm all right with. Yeah. It's not also not great when the dispatcher talks about CPR and he just goes I'm gonna have to that's the bit when I first heard that 911 call that made my jaw drop when he's like well I have to don't I mmm like okay maybe maybe let's give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he's in shock.

Maybe he's just scared to do anything wrong and that's why he's worried to do CPR because he doesn't know how to and he's worried. But then, you hear what is in my opinion the worst acting I've ever heard on a 911 call. When he prepares to do CPR, he says, her shirt's stuck, won't come off, the zipper's stuck. Oh, oh, there's a knife sticking out of her heart. She stabbed herself, she fell on a knife. That's the bit.

Firstly, the fact that he's acting like he didn't see the knife. That, that for me, everything else, I can be like, alright. There is no way you didn't see it. It's a fucking big knife and it's one of those knives, I've seen a picture of it, where the blade is as big as the handle. So you're not not seeing the handle sticking out of Ellie's fucking chest. And the fact that he says it like he's trying to pull the zipper down to do CPR and something's getting in the way and he doesn't know what it is.

And then he's like, Oh my God, it's a knife. It's bizarre that he acts like out of nowhere, there is suddenly a knife in her chest. Sorry. He says heart, like he literally says the knife is in her heart, which I thought was a very strange phrase to say. Um, again, you know, on its own, not the most alarming thing. But yeah, it's very weird. This knife is a 10 inch knife. It was plunged four inches into Ellie's chest. And like I said, the handle is as big as the blade would have been a very noticeable handle sticking out of her chest. I cannot believe

that he couldn't have seen it when he first discovered Ellie. Yet on the call, Sam acts like he didn't see the knife until he started trying to do CPR. For me it's completely unbelievable. And then when they're like okay you can't do CPR if there's a knife. The oh no oh my goodness. Okay. Also if I found someone with a knife in their chest I wouldn't immediately say they'd stabbed themselves or that they'd fallen on a knife. No, I don't think I would either. And there's other stuff as well.

He says that there's blood everywhere. There categorically wasn't. You can Google the crime scene photos, the few they actually did manage to take, and actually only one of them has been leaked, but it's very clear that there's very little blood on the floor. So why does he keep saying that there is so much of it? Sam also tells the operator that Ellie was on her back, and he tells him that when he's meant to start CPR, but Ellie wasn't on her back when the police arrived.

So we'll get more into the details of Ellie's injuries in just a second, but first off, we've got more to cover on the call. Sam says there was no sign of a break-in. When the operator asks him, is there any sign of a break-in, he says, no, there's none. My question is, how does he know? He doesn't say he checked the flat. He says he broke into the flat and, you know, the CCTV proves that he breaks in at like 6.29 and he calls the police at 6.31. When did he check the flat?

How does he know there isn't still someone in there? Someone who latched the door from the inside when they killed Ellie. If I came home one day and found Sam dead on the floor having been stabbed and the door was latched from the inside, I'd freak the fuck out that there was still somebody in the house who'd done that and then locked the door from the inside. But Sam Goldberg is so sure that there is no intruder. How is he so sure about that? He seems to say to the operator that it's because there's no sign that the door had been damaged

before he himself broke it down. But that isn't proof an intruder wasn't inside. Ellie could have let them in. And there's a balcony. And there's a balcony. How is he so sure? You might be wondering, if Sam did kill Ellie, why wouldn't he make it look like an intruder had done it? It is such an unbelievable suicide. Why wouldn't you just make it an intruder instead? Well, in the words of Tsurugi's hero Tom Brennan, the best way to get away with homicide

is to have it ruled a suicide. And he's right. If you say there was an intruder and the police investigate the murder properly, sooner or later, once they have ruled out an exterior killer, all eyes are going to be firmly set on you. Because the CCTV showed nobody came and went through that door. There's no one. The balcony is undisturbed. So if you're the only person that was in and out of that flat, if they're opening this as a homicide investigation, you are going to be suspect number one. And as we'll illustrate further next week, it's basically impossible for victims' families to legally challenge a manner of death ruling by a medical

examiner or a coroner in Pennsylvania. So, once they say it's suicide, that's it. Case closed and that's what happened. So, from a nefarious and conglessed point of view, this is smart. Horrible, but smart. However, I just don't think Sam Goldberg is that smart. I don't think he would have come to this conclusion on his own. I think Uncle Jimmy, the very important lawyer, may have done the thinking on this one during that three-way call that they had before his nephew called 911. Uncle Jimmy is not just a lawyer remember, he was a prosecutor. So finally let's you know just finish off the conversations around this call. Let's

talk about Sam's tone and demeanor. And yes, usual disclaimers, you can never know for sure how a person is going to react to a shock or trauma or grief. There is no right response that you're looking for. But saying that, however people react, either being hysterical or totally stoic or somewhat in between, the key thing is that they're typically pretty consistent. But Sam Goldberg is all over the place during these relatively short calls. One second he's hysterical, screaming, Ellie, Ellie, no! Then he's calm, then he's upset again.

And look, again, I'm going to say it, this on its own wouldn't be nearly enough evidence of something nefarious. But we have so much more. And as always with these cases, I'll say it again, it's about the totality of the evidence. And it just gets worse and worse. There was also no explanation as to how and why there was a pristine white bathroom towel in Ellie's left hand. Nobody ever explains that.

The police don't, they just note it down. No thought is made on that whatsoever. She's literally found with a completely unstained white bathroom towel, not a kitchen towel that she maybe grabbed or something. Why is that in her hand? Nothing, no explanation. And also, why were there trails of dried blood that ran horizontally down Ellen's face, from her eye across her nose onto her cheek. Ellen was found with her head and shoulders propped up against the kitchen cabinets, with her head hanging forward. If that was the position she was in when she died, the blood

would have dripped down her face in vertical lines. So it looks as if someone moved Ellie after she died, long enough after that the blood on her face dried. That doesn't happen that quickly. And Sam said to 9-1-1 that Ellie was on her back, remember. So if it was true that Ellie was on her back when he found her and the blood flowing horizontally across her face could prove that, why did he move her into a sitting position afterwards? Especially after 911 told him not to move or touch anything after he found the knife in her chest. And if he or someone moved Ellie before the 911 call and Sam just lied that he'd moved

Ellie onto her back during the CPR conversation, then why did they move her? This is a key question because it really does seem like Ellie died on her back, lay there for long enough for the blood to dry horizontally across her face while her head was tipped to the side and then someone moved her into the sitting position. Why would someone do that? And maybe, you know, maybe this is a bit far-fetched thinking but let's talk about it because people who stab themselves to death don't tend to do it whilst they're standing because then your body is gonna fall and you know that. Typically they tend to be sitting. So if

there was staging of the crime scene maybe that's why Ellie's body was moved because she was definitely on her back for a significant amount of time before being propped up. And it also really looks like she was definitely standing when the stabbing started because again if you look at the crime scene photo, there are drips of blood that have fallen on the kitchen cabinets from above where Ellie's body was discovered. It's already quite a lot but there is even more. As we said, we don't know everything, the files aren't public and they never will be, but from the photos that have been mysteriously leaked you can see that the knife block in the kitchen, where the knife that stabbed Ellie came from, was knocked over on the worktop.

The remaining knives had fallen out and scattered all around. Some of them had fallen into the sink, which is a pretty obvious sign of struggle that's just ignored. It also seemed like Ellie was preparing a snack. There was a colander of blueberries on the worktop and a peeled orange. So in order for this to be a suicide, we would have to believe that for some reason Ellie, in the middle of making a fruit salad, lost it, grabbed a knife, knocked over the knife block and then stabbed herself at least 20 times in the head scalp, back of the neck,

chest and stomach. Possible. Yes, in the very extremities of possibility. But it's not likely. No. And some people question this whole fruit salad thing, right, saying that that's not actually what Ellie was doing. When I first heard that, I was like, what do you want about? But we're going to talk about it next week, about what we actually think happened here. But I do think the knife block being knocked over is such a bizarre thing for the police to ignore.

But that is where we're going to have to stop for today, gang. So go process all that information and then join us next week where we will get into the broken down door, those infamous internet searches, the secret meeting that led to Dr Osborne changing his ruling, what Sam Goldberg finally said when he broke his 14 year silence in December 2024, as well as all the allegations of cover-up and conspiracy. We'll see you all then. And in the meantime, I have to, have to, have to, have to plug this. Please go check out Gavin Fish's coverage of this case.

He's a YouTuber, and he really has gone above and beyond with this. He's worked closely with Ellie's parents for years, and he's also had access to crime scene photos that the public has never seen. So when I say things like the knife block was knocked over and the knives were scattered around the worktop and in the sink, I only know that because Gavin Fish has seen those pictures shown to him by the Greenbergs and he has told us. And he's also done a huge amount to help the Greenbergs try and get justice. Also and like we don't always say this but like also please please please post about

this case on your socials anywhere you can because the Greenbergs need all the help they can get and at this point honestly public pressure and outrage is the only thing that is going to make a difference. And I also just want to be clear I know we're making it very obvious or at least I'm making it very obvious who I fucking think did this and what I think happened and we're going to go into very explicit detail next week. But in the last 14 years that Ellie's family have been fighting for justice, they have never ever pointed the finger specifically at anyone.

They are simply asking that their daughter's death be properly investigated as a homicide. So don't drag them into your accusations is all I'm saying. No. Because the people involved in this are particularly litigious and the Greenbergs don't need any more fucking stress. No, no, and the last thing we need is any sort of vigilantism. Please be careful. Yeah. Do what you can to support in in a nice way. Yeah. Don't go throwing any fingers because it doesn't help anybody but we're gonna be throwing our own fingers next week. Having said that. So yeah that's it guys that is part one of the death of Ellie Greenberg and yeah happy new year it's good to be back and

we'll see you next week for part two. Bye. Bye. I'm Jake Warren and in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery Plus. In season 2, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met but a couple of years ago I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part. Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came

across purely by chance but it instantly moved me and it's taking me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season 2 of Finding and this time if all goes to plan we'll be Finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made, a seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant.

When TV producer Roy Raden was found dead in a canyon near LA in 1983, there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Laney Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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