RedHanded - Episode 39 - A Killer in the Family: The Murder of Becky Watts

Episode Date: March 29, 2018

In 2015, when shy 16 year old Becky Watts suddenly went missing no one could believe it. But tragically within days her dismembered body was found just a mile from her home.  As the true motivations behind the murder were revealed it quickly became clear that someone in the family knew more than they were letting on... Audio Mastered by Conrad Hughes    See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So, get this. The Ontario Liberals elected Bonnie Crombie as their new leader. Bonnie who? I just sent you her profile. Her first act as leader, asking donors for a million bucks for her salary. That's excessive. She's a big carbon tax supporter. Oh yeah. Check out her record as mayor. Oh, get out of here. She even increased taxes carbon tax supporter. Oh, yeah. Check out her record as mayor. Oh, get out of here.

She even increased taxes in this economy. Yeah, higher taxes, carbon taxes. She sounds expensive. Bonnie Crombie and the Ontario Liberals. They just don't get it. That'll cost you. A message from the Ontario PC Party. Get ready for Las Vegas-style action at BetMGM,

the king of online casinos. Enjoy casino games at your fingertips with the same Vegas strip excitement MGM is famous for. When you play classics like MGM Grand Millions or popular games like Blackjack, Baccarat and Roulette. With our ever growing library of digital slot games, a large selection of online table games and signature BetMGM service. There's no better way to bring the excitement and ambiance of Las Vegas home to you than with BetMGM Casino. Download the BetMGM Casino app today. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly.

BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact ConnexOntario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. The The The The The

The The The The The The The The

The The Or a friend has contacted us and asked where she is and none of them know. What's your name? Rebecca Watts. After 12 days of hunting for Becky Watts, a private ambulance leaves the scene of a grim discovery. The find in a garden and terraced home on a small estate in Bristol made by detectives last night was the outcome the teenager's family had prepared themselves for and feared most. I'm Saruti. I'm Hannah. And welcome to Red Handed, where today we are covering a very recent case, the murder of Bristol teenager Becky Watts. It's a truly harrowing story of dark family secrets, murder and lies. But before we jump into the case, let's start with Becky and who she was. She was a 16-year-old schoolgirl from Bristol,

which is on the west coast of England. And Becky had had a history of mental health issues and also suffered from anorexia. She had been seen by a lot of professionals during the few years before her death. And she was actually finally starting to, quote, enjoy life again. So by 16, she was coming through the pain, she was beating the eating disorders, and she was overcoming what was described as crippling shyness. But in the initial assessment carried out by the mental health workers, she reported feeling scared about a lot of things. And she also told a family support worker that she had read a lot about abduction cases and they terrified her, which is especially tragic given what happened to Becky. She was small, slight and described as timid. She never really stood out in a crowd. Everyone knew her, said that at home she

was exuberant and loud, but then very reserved in public. Like most of us, she felt safe at home, but for Becky it was more. Home was her refuge. She was bullied at school and just months before her death. Poor Becky also found herself trapped in a situation She was bullied at school. And just months before her death, poor Becky also found herself trapped in a situation with a guy at school threatening to release a sexually explicit image of Becky that she had exchanged with him. In many ways, from her mental health challenges, the eating disorders, the bullying, the sexting threats, she was living the life of a teenager in modern Britain. But what Becky did have, that some don't, is a loving family. She lived with her father Darren and her stepmother Angie. She had lived with them from the age of two and by all accounts she and her father and her stepmum

were incredibly close. Angie and Becky were inseparable. And according to the family, despite a nine-year age gap, Becky and her stepbrother Nathan, Angie's son from a previous marriage, had a normal brother-sister relationship. And Becky's first clear word, even as a baby, was Nathan. So basically, they were maybe a little bit dysfunctional, but they were quite a strong family unit, as far as anyone involved was concerned, that is. I feel like we've given so much foreshadowing here. So on the 19th of February 2015, 16-year-old Becky Watts went missing from her family home. Thing is, Becky was a good girl. She wouldn't have just disappeared. And sure, teenagers disappear sometimes, but again, this just wasn't Becky.

And Becky's parents became particularly concerned when her friends turned up at their house, asking where Becky was, because she wasn't responding to their texts. So remember this is 2016. Becky had a mobile, there was WhatsApp, so it's really very bizarre to her friends and her family that she'd seemingly just vanished. So her dad Darren called 999. How long would it take for you to not hear from someone for you to get worried how many hours it depends who they are if i didn't hear from you for a couple of hours i wouldn't be worried if i didn't hear from you for like a week i'd be worried but if i didn't hear from my child i mean i don't have a child but let's imagine if from my child for like a day then yeah you

haven't seen her all day. She's not replying. I guess that's fair enough. And the fact that the friends haven't heard from her either, that's exactly what they say because they weren't that worried until the friends turned up at the house and said that they didn't know where Becky was and she wasn't replying to texts. And that's when Darren calls 999, which makes sense. And at first the police definitely thought it's just another case of a teenager who's run off, because they get dozens of reports of missing teenagers every day, and they usually turn up just fine. But the key issue here that made the police take notice was that all of Becky's technological stuff, so her laptop, her iPad, her phone, were all missing. But her social

media activity had completely stopped since she was last seen. And despite the investigation lasting less than a fortnight, it became one of the biggest undertaken by Avon and Somerset police. Hundreds of police from two different counties searched for her. And I think the fact that her phone and her laptop and her iPad are all missing, that means she's got them. It could look like she's run away though, because she's taken all those things that would be important to a sort of modern day teenager with her. But the fact is she's got all of those, but she's not replying to social media. She's not WhatsApping her friends back. And I think that's what was setting alarm bells ringing for people. And detectives knew when you have a missing child, time is everything. What's that horrible

statistic? Usually if a child isn't found within 72 hours, they are probably dead. The national media were called in and her dad and grandmother made an appeal. The police, meanwhile, had already started questioning family and friends. They needed to find out more about Becky because they had to get a grip of the victimology here. During their questioning, the police discovered that Becky's stepbrother Nathan Matthews and his girlfriend Shauna Hoare, yes, that is in fact her real name, were at Becky's house the day she went missing. The couple therefore jumped right to the top of the importance list with that revelation. But red flags started immediately with these two, as they were incredibly hard to pin down. Police really struggled to find them and to get them to the station for an interview.

So your stepsister goes missing and you were the last person to see her. Don't you think the police might want to have a quick word with you? And also, if it's your stepsister's gone missing, you should be the first one down there being like, what can I do? How can I help? But the police do finally find them and they interview Shauna first. She tells her story of that day very slowly and she giggles the whole way through. And we've talked about this before and it's dangerous to place too much importance

on the emotions of people who've just heard terrible news or who are being interrogated by the police but we'll post the interview tapes and tell me it's not weird with a straight face I dare you so despite the giggling and the smiling she's very thorough and tells her story in a very strict chronological order and Nathan is the same He doesn't giggle his way through the interview, but he's so at ease. He's making jokes. He's completely chill. So this doesn't necessarily indicate guilt, but it's definitely weird. Because if he's guilty and not covering it up, he'd be tense and furtive. But if he's not covering anything up and just concerned about where Becky is, then surely he'd also be tense and furtive. So if he's not covering anything up and just concerned about where Becky is,

then surely he'd also be tense and furtive. So what's his deal? Surely this behaviour points to them trying super hard to cover something up. Leave alone the emotions, the way they're behaving, like we said, this isn't indicative of anything. But what's really weird is that the couple, who are interviewed separately, tell the police incredibly consistent stories. People, even truthful people, often make mistakes and have inaccuracies in their accounts because they forget things. And innocent people may even lie about certain aspects of their story. But it's down to the police to figure out why there are inaccuracies. Is this person lying to cover up their involvement? Are they lying to minimise their involvement in some way? Or is it that they're not lying and they're simply wrong or they've forgotten or misremembered? But the thing is,

in this case, the two are absolutely perfect. They recount the story of that day with perfect clarity and they're just totally consistent with each other. This is not normal and it rings alarm bells for the police. And the way they tell the story too, it's incredibly detailed. They just give far too many details of really irrelevant things, like the fact that they were washing up or they were looking at this or watching this on TV. And they outline everything that happened very methodically. And as you said, Hannah, in perfect chronological order. And this is what people who are lying do,

because it's rehearsed and they don't want to trip up on their story. That's exactly what this is. They've so clearly sat down and got their story straight and practiced it together. And basically, when you cut through the huge story that they paint about their day, they just say that, yes, Becky was there at home, but that she had left. They'd heard the front door slam and she was gone. The police suspected the pair knew more than they were saying, but needed more evidence. So the major crimes unit was brought in and now really all the police had to go on was the forensics. So the forensics team go back into the

Watts' home and this time they found something. They found blood evidence on the doorframe of Becky's bedroom door. None was visible. It had been cleaned, but traces were still there. There was blood found low on the ground, at waist height, and up at the top of the doorframe. In the blood, they found a fingerprint. Bingo. I'm pretty sure that the first ever case that used fingerprinting was because someone left a perfect fingerprint in blood and that's why fingerprint analysis is used well it

would make sense it's almost like the perfect medium to capture fingerprints in so at this point becky has been missing for nine days we are well over the 72-hour threshold. And finally, the police has a forensics breakthrough, but they didn't know yet if the blood found on the door was Becky's or who the fingerprint belonged to. But they brought Nathan and Shauna back in, and this time they target Shauna. They ask her if Nathan had any concerns about speaking to the police. She says she doesn't know. She says he's sad and stressed because Becky was like a daughter to his mum Angie and seeing her so upset by Becky's disappearance was hard for him. But in another room, Nathan was telling the police that his relationship with Becky was not good at all. He told police he didn't really like Becky and that

she was often rude to his mum and he didn't like that and he called her selfish. The pair were still giving police nothing and then the forensics came back and you'll be unsurprised to hear that the blood was Becky's and the fingerprint in the blood was Nathan's. So the police immediately find and arrest the couple for kidnapping. They still think at this point,

even though it's been about nine, 10 days, that Becky might still be alive. There wasn't a huge amount of blood found on the doorframe. Maybe she wasn't dead. Maybe it's a family member. Maybe she's still alive. So they bring the couple in. And again, there's police video of the couple being actually arrested in their home.

And Nathan is so chill. And Shauna, again, she's just like quietly giggling. It's so bizarre. And just imagine Becky's poor parents. Angie saw Becky as her daughter. She'd lived with and raised her from the age of two. And now her son had been arrested in connection with her disappearance. But even despite this, no one knew at this point just how dark this case would get. I can't imagine being arrested by the police and laughing about it. She's very bizarre. Nathan acts calm and cold and together in the sense that he looks like he's completely shut off, which I

don't think is that weird. I think that's probably quite a normal way to behave. But she is very, very bizarre. Always got a smirk or like a smile or like a ha ha ha on her face. It's really shocking. After arresting the pair the police only had 24 hours to question them and it was during this time that their characters started to show shauna was confident articulate and came across very well she's lying but she's very very good at it she just kept saying she didn't know anything and she kept her story straight, always firm that no one in the family could be involved. Nathan, however, was a bit more complex. The police profiled that he wouldn't respond well to aggression or confrontation,

so they just let him talk. They knew his personality was the type to crave control, so they let him think that he had it during the interview and they lull him in. Then you see it happen in the interview tapes. They suddenly change tack and ask him outright, what can you tell us about Becky's disappearance? To which Nathan replied, why would I know anything? Where is she? How would I know? Is she safe? Why would I know? I had nothing to do with it. Have you hurt her? I haven't hurt her. Time was running out. Sure, they have blood and a fingerprint,

but it's not enough for an airtight case when they can't get the couple to talk. Also, having your traces of your own blood in your own house, that doesn't prove jack shit. Exactly. And it's her stepbrother's fingerprint. He didn't live in the house, but his mum did. He came by all the time.

It doesn't prove anything it's not enough so the police go to search the couple's house so this is nathan and shauna's house about a mile away from where becky lived it took the police a while to even get in the house when they eventually got the front door open they found two fridge freezers and tables and boxes of stuff pushed up against the door. So clearly, they were not expecting visitors and they didn't want anyone to get in. And each room of the house was exactly the same. It was all jam-packed with stuff. There were bins and boxes full of stuff everywhere. It's hard to believe that anyone actually lived there. Every inch of the floor and worktop space and all of the furniture was just covered in stuff. It was just like household items, but seriously, the place was a complete mess. And

during their search of the house, the police found something that immediately stood out as incredibly strange. In the upstairs bathroom, which was a mess, like so bad you couldn't even see the sink, they saw that the bath was spotless. And I mean gleaming. It was so clean. And the detectives were on it immediately. And forensics started working on the bathtub and surprise, surprise, it tested positive for blood and lots of it. The whole investigation is moving at a really fast pace. And all of this information that's coming from the house as the detectives are working there is being relayed and fed back to the detectives interviewing Shauna and Nathan. And the detectives who are doing the

interviewing manage to really find balance on what they share with Shauna and Nathan and what they keep secret. For example, they didn't disclose the evidence like the fingerprints they'd found in the blood. They just hint at it. They asked Nathan, did you go upstairs? And this caused a very cool Nathan to now become unstuck and he started to stumble. They ask Nathan, did you go upstairs? And this caused a very cool Nathan to now become unstuck. And he started to stumble. He starts saying, I can't remember. No, yes, maybe I did. No, maybe for a bit. And this is the tactic the police used is to not give everything away that they had. And it's left to Nathan to now try and think what the police might have found and in the process, incriminate himself. Back at the couple's

house the search continued and the police found some receipts stuffed away in a box. They were from the Friday Becky was reported missing. I know I've previously encouraged everyone to keep your receipts not if you're kidnapping people throw them all away shred that shit and not if you're buying this stuff because someone had bought a circular saw a face mask and gloves from a local diy shop and this is bingo number two why would you keep that receipt and not just keep it in your pocket in a special box i know like you're gonna fucking use it for what they do use it for and then what give it back let's send this back let's take it back and get our money back best keep that receipt maybe nathan was freelance maybe he needed to claim that shit

don't keep incriminating receipts and use cash you probably use this fucking card idiot they check the shop cctv and there it was 24 hours after be after Becky had gone missing, Nathan had bought all of this stuff. It's literally like he's read How to Do a Murder. He just gets the stuff from like his local DIY shop in plain view of CCTV 24 hours after his stepsister goes missing and then keeps the receipts in his house. Full credit to the police on this case. They do a great job, but seriously, he made it pretty fucking easy for them. You don't believe in ghosts? I get it.

Lots of people don't. I didn't either until I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness and inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more. Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained.

Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall, that was no protection. Claudine Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime, and there's much more to come. — This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On the Media. To listen, subscribe to On the Media wherever you get your podcasts. a seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant.

When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near L.A. in 1983, there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Lainey Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

Detectives until then had hope that Becky might still be alive. But now they consign themselves to the fact that this is probably not the case. This is not a kidnapping anymore. This is a murder. And now Nathan, 28, and Shauna, 21. Is that fine? He seems quite juvenile though. When you listen to him speak in the interviews and you watch the way he behaves behaves she seems older than him to me yeah but when he left school she was in year seven i think that he couldn't have got out with a twin i'm such an age gap snob though like i don't know he couldn't have dated a woman older than that i don't think he's very very immature and juvenile in his behavior so nathan and shauna were both

arrested on suspicion of murder, but the police still didn't tell the couple what they'd found. They just told them that they'd forensically searched their house. And on day 11 of the investigation, Nathan now knows he's running out of options. And at 10.26am on the 2nd of March, Nathan gives police a written statement confessing to the murder of his stepsister, Becky Watts. In the interview following this, the police say they would like to read the letter out loud for the tape. And Nathan says, do I have to listen? Can I put my fingers in my ears? And then he ducks his head down on the table with his hands over his ears as the note is being read out loud.

I, Nathan Charles Matthews, accept I'm responsible for the death of Rebecca Watts. On the 19th of February, 2015, I attended Crown Hill, St. George, Bristol with my girlfriend, Shauna Hoare. In my car, I had a large bag with a stun gun, handcuffs, tape, and a mask. I developed an idea to kidnap, and a mask. I developed an

idea to kidnap Rebecca and scare her. I believed she was selfish and her behavior towards my mother was a risk to her health. A few minutes after arriving, Shauna went into the garden to smoke a cigarette. I went to my car and got the bag and went upstairs to the landing before knocking on Becky's door. She replied, what or hello. Then, I cannot be sure which order things happened, but I used the items to subdue Rebecca. In the struggle, my mask slipped and she saw my face. This made me panic and I strangled Rebecca while she was partially in the bag. Okay.

Firstly, I'm going to guess that your mask didn't need to slip before she realised it was you. Yeah, fact. She's known you basically her whole life. You were her first word as a child. She who you are so that's bullshit also you come with all of that stuff to kidnap a 16 year old and you're doing it to scare her bollocks and the idea that shauna just goes outside and happens to know nothing about what's going on inside there are so many problems with that. But he had confessed. But he was saying it was an accident. Which, as we just said, doesn't really ring true. And even his own mother, leave alone the police, didn't believe him. Angie told the police when they informed the family of Nathan's

confession that she thought he'd done it and he'd done it on purpose. In what world could this possibly have been an accident? I know. Nathan then went on to admit that he had dismembered Becky's body in the bath and put her body parts in bags and boxes. That is not what you do with a person who accidentally died. Exactly. It's all very Robert Durst. Yeah. Oh, I accidentally killed my neighbour and then I chopped his body up. This is not what you do. He also told police that he had hidden these boxes and bags filled with Becky's remains in a neighbour's garden shed less than 100 metres from his own house. So in a garden shed, in a tiny garden, in a small estate in Bristol, the police found Becky Watts' body. And just as they had suspected, and as Nathan had confessed, Becky's body had been cut up and stuffed into boxes and bags.

The post-mortem revealed that Becky had died of strangulation, but there were stab wounds on Becky that had been inflicted after her death. So, hardly an accident. That's overkill. That's not an accident, is it? Whoops, I killed this person. I better keep stabbing them. And then dismember them and hide them in boxes and bags. With a big bag that I came prepared with. That I kept the receipt for, so...

Oh, fuck off. On Becky's stomach, there were particularly deep and jagged wounds. But there were also wounds around her neck, which might have been inflicted before or after death, but they looked like they had been made with a screwdriver. A screwdriver? I also just thought, because there's wounds on her body that look like they've been inflicted with a knife because they're deep and they're jagged, then there's also the screwdriver wounds.

That's two different implements. That suggests two different attackers, surely. They're both doing it at the same time, I think. Yeah, exactly. And Becky's body had been stripped before being dismembered. But just because Nathan had confessed, the police can't just take what he's saying as the truth. It's clearly minimising the extent of the violence involved with this crime.

He strangled her to death. There were clear stab wounds and it was planned and premeditated and he dismembered her. This wasn't an accident and he had no remorse. This was cold-blooded, premeditated murder and he was totally leaving Shauna out. He was implying that she had nothing to do with all of this, which seems highly improbable. Nathan even went so far as to tell the police that he didn't want to even talk about Shauna. He was fully taking the blame. And in the back of the other interview room, when Shauna's told that Nathan had admitted to killing Becky, she just nods. And when she was interviewed the next day, they ask her, when did you know that Nathan had killed Becky? And she replied, when you told me yesterday. But

clearly she already knew. The whole way through after this, she maintained that she had no knowledge of his involvement before being told, despite the fact that she was in the house when the murder happened, according to Nathan's own story. And when the police asked her how they could know that she wasn't involved, she replied, where's the proof? I didn't touch anything. That is, ugh, she's such a, she's sick. And the police, they continue to question the couple, saying that Nathan had elements of truth, but also many lies in his story but with Shauna they knew that she had to be involved because she'd lied throughout nothing she told them had been the truth and now Nathan took the route of just answering no comment to every question and maybe it was because he'd confessed he didn't

need to hold back so the floodgates just opened with Nathan. And throughout the rest of the interviews after his confession, he just sobbed and cried with his head in his hands. It seems weird to me that Shauna's first response is to say, I didn't touch anything. That's a weird thing to say. If you're thinking about not touching something, you're thinking about not wanting to leave any evidence. And if you haven't murdered someone, that's not something you're thinking, I don't think. She's very careful. So after the maximum 96 hours

allowed by law to question the pair, the police charged Nathan with murder, but they still couldn't link Shauna to the murder. But they could prove that she had lied. They charged her with perverting the course of justice because they just couldn't let her go. They had to keep her on remand in case they let her go and she destroyed any evidence that they might have a chance of collecting. So whilst keeping Shauna on remand, the police scoured the couple's phones and laptops. Bingo number three, a series of deleted texts were found on Shauna's phone. It really annoys me that people think deleting them is enough. Come on, in this day and age, they can find them. Everything you've ever said is on the internet.

But finally, the truth and the disturbing motives behind Becky's murder were revealed. And you'll remember that Nathan claimed he accidentally killed Becky in the process of scaring her because he didn't like how she treated his mum. This is definitely not the case. The phone records and the internet searches told a very different story. The phone showed multiple porn searches involving young girls around Becky's age. The pair seemed to have an obsession with pornography and pornography described by the police as borderline legal showing petite teenage girls often having sex with older men and in one video having sexual relations by force so

essentially it's teenage rape fantasy porn and the text exchanges well they showed the two discussing on multiple occasions abducting young girls. They talked about finding a young, pretty girl, putting her in their loft and treating her as a sexual plaything. So now, all of a sudden, there was a very clear sexual motive to the murder and very clear indication that Shauna Hall was involved. The police read the messages aloud to Shauna and this is just one example of a series of texts exchanged between the two. On the 9th of December 2014, Shauna received a message from Nathan saying,

Fuck you, bring me back two pretty schoolgirls then. To which she replied, Just went to costcutters and saw a very pretty petite girl. Almost knocked her out to bring her home. LOL. Nathan, clearly excited by this, replied, In all caps, do it. and shauna jokingly texted back lmfao yeah i will just go back in time to when i saw her then time travel with her to the attic

lol the couple clearly fantasized about three-way sex with pretty young girls and the police now confronted shauna saying and that the pair had planned to kidnap Becky, take her back to her attic and use her as a sex slave. All of this was read aloud to Shauna, who gave no comment. They asked her if the girl in cost cutters was similar to Becky's age. And she replied, no comment. But it didn't matter. Shauna's involvement started to solidify. And now for the forensics. They found Shauna's DNA on the face mask and in a box and

bag that contained Becky's remains in the neighbour's garden shed, so obviously she had been touching things. Shauna had definitely been involved with the dismemberment and finally the police were able to charge both Nathan and Shauna with murder. The trial began in Bristol Crown Court in October 2015 and in the witness box, as they had in the interview rooms, Shauna and Nathan cut very different figures. While Nathan was hunched over and sobbed throughout, Shauna was calm and confident. The prosecution suggested that she was a very cold individual who had first put the idea of kidnapping Becky, whom she did not like, in Nathan's head. I am inclined to think that that's probably what happened. I do think she was the ringleader. I don't think Nathan had the wherewithal to plan something

like this. I mean, they both did a bad job because they got caught pretty easily. We'll never know because Nathan never sold Shauna out. So we'll never know whether it was her idea or not. What did they think was going to happen? If you murder someone in such a slapdash fashion and don't even attempt to hide the body properly, you're going to prison. It's like such a level of arrogance. I think Shauna just did this and thought, oh, it's fine.

I've been lying. She's probably been lying her whole life and getting away with it. And I think she just thought, it's fine, Nathan. This is what we do. I've watched a film about this. You go buy a saw, we'll cut her up. We'll hide her in somebody else's garden shed.

And when the police come, this is the story. Stick to the story and we'll be fine. We didn't touch anything. She's not as smart as she thinks she is. And the police got her. But I think she was arrogant enough to think that they could get away with this. And I think, again, we don't really, we'll never really know exactly what happened. What we think probably happened is that Shauna and Nathan stormed into Becky's room and they attacked her and ended up killing her. The rage they show her body after the attack though is odd but we do know that stabbing is very sexual to killers so maybe they weren't able to get her out of the house, get her home alive, like they wanted to keep her hostage and they found some sexual release in what they did do to her? I don't know. But despite

the truth never 100% coming out, in the end Nathan was found guilty of murder and was sentenced to life with a minimum term of 33 years. Shauna was convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to 17 years, and in an unbelievable end to the five-week trial, Mr Justice Dinchmans, the judge who oversaw the case, broke down in tears as he sentenced the couple and paid tribute to the dignified way her family had dealt with the horror of the past year. Now Dingements, he was counsel for the Hutton inquiry into the dodgy dossier for Iraq. He wasn't some newbie judge, he was a seasoned vet at this and he was crying. This man began to sob as he gave his closing remarks.

And apparently after sentencing, he just got up and walked out of the courtroom. That's how bad this case was. And the pair were nicknamed by the media as the new Fred and Rose West, a couple going after young girls having a shared sexual fantasy. I guess it does fit. And like we say all the time, the crime was sexually motivated and given their fantasies i think it's safe to say that they absolutely would have killed again oh easily if they got away with it they would have killed again it would have absolutely validated everything and they would have done it again they would have gotten away with it there was nothing accidental about it it's not even like when you see with serial killers their first kill might might be

kind of accidental they kind of fall into it That's absolutely not what this was. They set out. They woke up that morning knowing they were going to kill Becky Watts. Absolutely. It was even before that because they went out and bought the stun gun, the bag, the tape, everything to put in his little murder kit. He had a murder kit for his first kill. That's unbelievable. And also with Fred and Rose West, when we did their cases, they had horrific childhoods. By all accounts, nothing I could find on these two indicated the horrors of the childhoods the Wests faced. They were just normal people by all accounts until they did this. It's really remarkable. That's so bizarre. Angie, Nathan's mum, Becky's step-mum, seems like a totally lovely, normal woman. And it's unbelievablemom seems like a totally lovely normal woman and it's

unbelievable this breaks my heart but angie and darren are still together so becky's dad and angie her stepmom they're still together after her son killed his daughter and they still live in the same house i don't think i could live in a house i know if anyone was murdered and if i knew my house is really old so maybe has someone has been murdered here if it was someone i knew i'd have to move i'd i definitely want to i wonder how much freedom of movement they have like how many choices and options they have to be able to move out of that house but i'm sure it's not an easy thing for them to continue to live there i think just the story of becky has you know she was so timid and young and just starting to get her life together and come out through all of the trouble she'd

been through. And just horrifyingly, how scared of everything she had been. And then for this to happen in her own home by someone she trusted, it just makes it such a harrowing case. Thanks for listening, guys. Yeah, thanks for listening. If you would like to give us some money, it really does make a huge difference. And you can do that at patreon.com forward slash redhanded. Follow us on all the social medias at redhandedthepod. And we will see you next time. See you next week.

Don't forget to tell your mates. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to light some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA

and its contractors that led to the disaster. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season only on Wondery+. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today. He was hip-hop's biggest mogul, the man who redefined fame, fortune, and the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Sean Diddy Combs. Diddy built an empire and lived a life most people only dream about.

Everybody know ain't no party like a Diddy party, so. Yeah, that's what's up. But just as quickly as his empire rose, it came crashing down. Today I'm announcing the unsealing of a three-count indictment, charging Sean Combs with racketeering conspiracy, sex trafficking, interstate transportation for prostitution. I was f***ed up. I hit rock bottom. But I made no excuses. I'm disgusted. I was f***ed up. I hit rock bottom, but I made no excuses. I'm disgusted. I'm so sorry.

Until you're wearing an orange jumpsuit, it's not real. Now it's real. From his meteoric rise to his shocking fall from grace, from law and crime, this is The Rise and Fall of Diddy. Listen to The Rise and Fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery+.