RedHanded - Episode 43 - The 'Swedish Case'

Episode Date: April 26, 2018

In 1989, Swedish backpackers Heidi Paakkonen and her fiancé Urban Hoglin disappeared into the bush on the Coromandel Peninsula in NZ. A local man, David Tamihere, was convicted of their murders - and it seemed like it was case closed, until they found Urban's body that is... Because the story his remains told was very different to the one which sent Tamihere away. What really happened to Heidi and Urban? Vote for us in the British Podcast Awards here: https://www.britishpodcastawards.com/vote/ Audio mastered by Conrad Hughes   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Please click on it and vote for us. Thank you. I'm Saruti. I'm Hannah. And welcome to Red Handed. Today, we've got a cold case for you because nearly 30 years ago, a young Swedish couple, 21-year-old Heidi Pakenan and her fiancé, Urban Hoglin, 23, disappeared while backpacking in New Zealand's Coromandel Peninsula. This case is still obsessed about by locals and is often even referred to in New Zealand as simply the Swedish case. And to this day, those involved with this bizarre story are still haunted by what really happened to Heidi and Urban in that remote bushland.

And seriously, guys, it's some real Blair Witch shit today. And it's not only scary woods, disappearances, bloody clothing turning up all over the place and all round general creepiness, but police incompetency, conspiracies, court case screw ups and controversies galore. So get ready. After Heidi and Urban went missing in 1990, 35-year-old David Wayne Tamahere was convicted of both of their murders. He was convicted and sentenced to life mainly based on, to be honest, largely circumstantial evidence and despite the fact that no bodies had been found at the time of his trial. But in the decades since his conviction, a ton of new evidence has emerged

that actually casts a great deal of doubt on the case against Tamahere. So let's start at the beginning. The couple who were from Storafoss, Sweden, were traveling around New Zealand's North Island when they vanished. They were last seen on the Coromandel Peninsula, specifically on the eastern side of the peninsula in the Witianga region. It looks completely, totally beautiful, but also terrifying. And particularly, if you're in the Facebook group, you might know already, I've just got back from Switzerland, which again, stunning, but I was definitely staying in a murder cabin in the mountains. I put a picture of it in the Facebook group. So you have to join to have a look at it. But it was really absolutely the middle of nowhere. And to give you an example of just how

isolated my friend is that lives there, this is absolutely true. We were eating dinner, drinking some wine, listening to some music. And he said, so Beyonce, is she good? That is how isolated my friend is in the Swiss Alps. How have you come back alive? How are you not dead? I don't know. I was much more concerned about the toilet situation, to be honest, because none of the doors in this house close. Oh my God. And there's a giant hole in the ceiling. So like from the bedroom I was sleeping in, you could see directly into the toilet. That is so menacing. That was more concerning. But it was also, it was beautiful and I had a lovely time. Just like Hannah's trek out into the Swiss wilderness to stay in her murder cabin,

this couple were also headed off to Crosby's Clearing in the Coromandel Ranges. To get here, it's a tough hike. This isn't for people who don't know what they're doing. It's a hike uphill for like four hours along a narrow, steep path through dense, rugged, isolated native bush. And it's seriously tough. When the path isn't forcing you uphill, it's either totally swampy or just a ridiculously narrow trail winding around the edge of cliffs.

And sometimes the path disappears altogether and you just have to guess where to go next and hope that you're still heading in the right direction. The thing is with Crosby's clearing, as is often the case, the trek was apparently completely worth it because of the incredible views. Is it weird of me? What does it say about me that even after I read this entire case, I still kind of want to go there because of how beautiful it looks. I love me a good hike, good trek. I don't get it. I don't get it. Oh, Hannah, let's go on a hiking holiday. I love a hiking holiday. I have no problem with walking around and looking at nice stuff. I have a problem with

the word hiking. It's just difficult walking. It's not a different thing. It is a different thing. You don't hike to the shops. The sweat and the adrenaline and the reward when you get to the top and you're looking at this beautiful view. Such a sense of payoff. I love it. I did the Annapurna Base Camp Trek. 10 hardest days of my life, but totally worth it. I would never ever do it again. Don't do it. But pretty cool. You're looking at me like you want to kill me. I would totally go on a hiking holiday. That was fine. Let's go. I would just call it a difficult walking holiday. I just won't buy into the hiking thing. I won't. It's not some conspiracy or some fad. It's a word.

I am very aware that I have a very irrational dislike of the word. I'm fully aware that this is not a normal thing to be feeling. As long as you're aware of it, that's the main thing. A friend of mine hiked from Mexico to Canada. That's too much hiking. Yeah, quite a lot of hiking. Her heel split in half and she had to like put it back together with duct tape yeah no thanks no thanks no no no no it's 10 day 10 days your cutoff point 10 days was a lot and we like got to the ending and i realized that we could skip almost half a day of hike because we found out there were secret buses that took you the final bit off the mountain and i was like yeah i'm doing that i'm doing that everyone we spoke to people would be like oh can I see your photos

where have you been I'm like heard about the buses where did the buses leave anyone got a bus route where's the bus leaving got there not even kidding you like ran out of the bushes when we thought we saw the bus station looking like we'd escaped from a psychopath dirty I didn't shower for 10 days I was absolutely filthy ran out and these guys were't shower for 10 days. I was absolutely filthy. Ran out and these guys were just stood there with their cars. I was like, where are the buses? He's like, oh, they won't be here for another three hours. I was like, oh, okay. How much money do you want? You've got a car there. I see you've got a car. How much money to drive me off this mountain right now? Right now. And he was like, oh, okay. And we just gave him some money. I was like,

get me off this mountain. Drove. I didn't even know he was. Oh my and we just gave him some money I was like get me off this mountain drove I didn't even know he was oh my god it's more hitchhiking isn't it you're unstoppable you're on you will you just won't have it and also you're not selling me on the hiking holiday here like if that sounds absolutely fucking horrible it was tough by that point I was absolutely tough and I fell asleep in the back of his car and I remember having a nightmare where I woke up and I was back at the top of the mountain but luckily I wasn't I was headed back down to sea levels fucking hell that was a trek and a half don't do it anyway we are well off track in this area

in the Coromandel region in the Crosby's clearing because it's very reminiscent a little bit Blair Witchy it's not just going to be the flashbacks of watching the Blair Witch shaky cam when you were a kid that is going to give you heart palpitations up there because the area is infamous for bush so thick and mine shafts so deep that you wouldn't even need to bury a body if you killed someone up there because no one is going to find it and it's here according to the, that on Saturday the 8th of April 1989, Heidi and Urban went into the bush. And David Wayne Tamahir raped and killed the two young Swedish backpackers. This is according to the police. The pair were last seen in the town of Thames in the early afternoon of April 7th by two hairdressers who had cut the couple's hair.

Couple's haircuts. That is very weird. It's when the romance is dead, isn't it? When you're getting couple's haircuts, I think. Do you think they had matching couple's haircuts? No, they had good hair. I've seen pictures. They had great hair. But no, hiking holiday, great romance.

Turn around to me and say, you just cut my hair. Let me cut your hair. You're looking a bit ropey. No, I'm out into the bush. I'm leaving you. So after the couple's haircut, they then left for their trek and vanished the couple weren't reported missing until may which is totally the dangers of traveling especially when you're with your partner

especially when it's the 90s and especially when you definitely don't have a phone and i do think we don't realize how in touch we are constantly now and how recent that is. Because when I was at school, totally normal to not hear from people all day for weeks if you don't go to the same school. And if you're bush camping, there's not going to be any records of where you were. If you're staying in hostels and stuff, quite a lot of the time you have to hand over your passport

and there's a trail of where you've been. But in the bush, none of that. But once they were reported missing, the police investigation was sparked and it was called Operation Stockholm. Absolutely no points for originality there. That is unbelievable. If I went missing in New Zealand and they called it Operation London, I would be furious. Operation Ikea? Operation Meatball? What else is Swedish? Clogs? No.

No, they're Dutch. Dutch. God, we're such racialists. Let's get off this topic. Operation Clogs is quite good, though. I quite like that. If you went missing, it could be like Operation Teacup. That's quite cute.

Oh, that is quite good, actually. There we go, guys. If we ever go missing, that's what you can call Hannah's. Operation Teacup. What can mine be? Operation Hitchhike. Yeah, that's exactly what yours would be. That's exactly what yours would be. That's ridiculous. You can't, you won't be stopped. She won't be stopped, ladies and gentlemen. I won't be stopped. It's fleeing from one situation into the hands of another situation when I hitchhike. I wasn't hitchhiking. I gave him money. Oh, that's when you should definitely hitchhike when you're desperate and have no choice. That's absolutely the time to

get into a stranger's car. It was mountain Uber. That's what it was. Like I had to get off that mountain. It was not. It was. I gave him money. It's legit. He was like, yeah, all right, whatever. Suriti, the exchange of money very rarely makes a transaction more legit. If I'm giving you money for my hitchhiking, it's totally legit. But anyway, let's stop her bullying me on this matter. We can take the piss out of Operation Stockholm all we want, but it was one of New Zealand's largest ever search and rescue attempts. Dozens of people volunteered to help with the search,

and it was, in fact local man graham pierce who made an absolutely crucial find is it weird that i've always wanted to go on one of those searchy things where everyone stands in a line and hold hands and walks really slowly through the woods i've always wanted to do that i don't think they hold hands don't you have to use your hands to look for things i'm pretty sure there's some pretty intense hand holding i feel like you're you're just fantasizing about some sort of crime scene romance. I don't think they hold hands. But I won't kill your dream. Should we go walking around the forest holding hands? And if we just happen to find a body? Perfect. Perfect weekend. Operation teacup.

So the dozens of people who volunteered, and may or may not have been holding hands, did find Heidi's very distinctive blue and white rain jacket which was folded neatly in the bush at a place the locals call the jam tins. Police also later found in the same area Heidi's black wallet and photographs of her family and of Urban. Oh that's just so sad so sad graham's discovery though on july 29th 1989 was not only a vital find because of what he found but also where he found it and when he found it because graham found the jacket almost three quarters of the way from thames where the couple got their haircut to crosby's clearing further proof for the investigation that this is where the couple must have disappeared

graham had also found the jacket a week after the official search was called off. So his find really did reignite efforts to find the missing couple. And it's really sad. I read this interview with this guy, Graham Pierce, 28 years later now, he still hikes around the same bush in the same area, trying to find Heidi. And he and his wife, they were so affected by this case that they actually started a hostel in the area for backpackers to stop people bush camping. And they say they do it because they hope that if their kids were somewhere, someone would do it for them. So how does David Tamahir, the brother of a local MP, find himself implicated in this case? Because for the three years preceding the disappearance of Heidi and Urban,

David Tamahir had been hiding out, living rough in the bush, after being found guilty of a string of horrendous crimes, including the 1972 manslaughter of 23-year-old Mary Bartram. He was just 18 when he brutally smashed her head in with an air rifle, though he denies it to this day. Then 13 years later, in April 1986, he broke into an Auckland house where he sexually assaulted and threatened to kill a 47-year-old woman. He tortured her in her own home for over six hours. And again, now he totally denies it. But when on trial, he did plead guilty, but he fled while on bail. Why is he on bail? Why are you letting a convicted manslaughterist who smashed someone's head in with an air rifle, who is being tried for torture and rape, why are you letting him go? Why are you doing that? Bail is ridiculous. It's such a ridiculous construct. And surprise,

surprise, he ran off. He just runs off into the bush and he hides out on the Coromandel Peninsula for three years, during which time Urban and Heidi disappeared. David Tamme here. This is total coincidence. He was found on May 24th, 1989, two days before Heidi and Urban were reported missing. So when the police capture him, they don't know yet that the couple are even missing. But remember that the couple had been missing for over a month by this point because they'd actually disappeared on the 7th or 8th of April. And as soon as the police realized that they had this missing couple, and that they'd arrested this man from the bush where they vanished, who'd been hiding out after committing heinous violent crimes, needless to say, Tamir was

the first to the top of the suspect list. And quickly the connection was made between him and the Swedish couple. The police released photos of the white Subaru Heidi and Urban had rented to drive around the area. And a tourist in Auckland called the police and told them that he had been given a lift in that very car from Coromandel to Auckland by a man. A man he was able to positively identify as, you guessed it, David Tammiher. So the police go hard on Tammiher now, but he told them he had just come across the Swedish couple's car on the 10th of April, so two days after Heidi and Urban were last seen. He said it was parked at Crosby's clearing and loaded with gear. He admitted to the police that he had broken into the car and planned on driving it up to

Auckland. But instead, the next day, April 11th, he met these three random tourists and he gave them a tour of the peninsula. Then the next day, he said he drove one of the tourists to Auckland and ditched the car at Auckland railway station. So it's not looking good for Tamahir at this point. He was immediately being linked to the car of the missing couple after being found hiding out in the bush where they vanished so the police were sure he was their man and tamahere was already in prison on the 1986 rape charge when he was charged with murdering heidi and urban he was tried for their murders in october 1990 the case as we said is largely built on circumstantial evidence which don't get me wrong is pretty damning and circumstantial evidence, which, don't get me wrong, is pretty damning, and circumstantial evidence absolutely is evidence. But he was, at the end of the day,

he was an accused rapist hiding out in the woods. But at the trial, there were also three key witnesses who testified that David Tamahir had confessed to them about the murders. They were all fellow inmates of Tamahir's, and guess what? We can't actually name any of them, or even figure out who they were or what they got out of this deal because all three of them were granted name suppression by the court. Name suppression which was granted for protection because in prison, snitches get stitches after all. And this also served as an incentive for other prisoners in other cases to come forward and give evidence. It is a bit dangerous though though, because if you're going to get three years

knocked off your sentence for testifying against someone, I think quite a lot of people would just do that for the sake of it. Yeah, it's like a plea bargain, isn't it? And we've talked about the issues we have with that. But at the same time, I do feel like people do confess to things in that situation. Yeah, like in the Shawshank Redemption.

I wouldn't want to take it away from the police to be able to use that kind of evidence in court. But I think they should be very, very careful and rigorous and thorough when they are using that kind of evidence and those kind of witnesses. So in court, one of the inmates, a man known simply as Witness C, testified that Tamir had told him that he had tied Urban to a tree and sexually abused him before raping Heidi. Tammy had denied it. But, and this is where it gets weird, he said that he told the inmates lies in prison to see who he could trust. He said he told them different stories, different lies about different things to different inmates and

waited to see which of those stories came out into the public, into the general population, which was spilled out. Because then he'd know, I can't trust that guy. But he was adamant that of all the lies and stories he told the other inmates while he was in prison, that he never, ever confessed to killing the Swedish couple. But what is interesting when you take this into account is that each one of the three prisoners who testified gave a different account of how Tammy had killed the couple. So it kind of fits. It almost feels like he did tell three different inmates, maybe three different stories of how he killed the Swedish couple, but he denies that he did that. And like we talked about, while these three may not be the most reliable witnesses,

they weren't the only witnesses who testified. Two other tourists who'd been in the area also identified Tamihere as the man they saw with a woman they believed to be Heidi in a remote clearing of the bush around the time the couple disappeared. They said they saw Tamah here with a woman in the area of Crosby's clearing at 4.30 p.m. on Saturday, April 8th. So the very day that they disappeared. This is important, really important. So put a pin in it and we'll come back. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored and capture America come back. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made, a seductive city where many flock to get rich,

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Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today. But at the trial, witnesses weren't all the police had. Well, they didn't have any bodies, but they did have a watch. Because the police found a watch in the possession of David Tamahir's son that they identified as Urban Hoglins. And they asserted in court that Tamahir had stolen Urban's watch after killing him and given the trophy to his son.

So with that, in December 1990, the jury found Tamahir guilty of the murder of Urban and Heidi, and he was sentenced to life imprisonment with a 10-year non-parole period. Tamahir has always denied the murders and his convictions on the charges in 1990. Tamahir has always denied the murders just in the same way he's denied the convictions in 1986 and the manslaughter before that. This is a wild case because he really is the perfect suspect. But when the case went to trial, the conviction was secured without any bodies and purely on circumstantial evidence alone, which makes this one of New Zealand's most controversial stories.

And there were certainly controversies with the trial, but the real controversies didn't start until 10 months after. In 1991, Urban's body was discovered, and the case that had convicted Tammy here was now fucked. Firstly, Urban Hogland's body was uncovered 70 kilometres away from where the police alleged that the murders had taken place. Okay, so firstly, he's found 70 kilometers away in an area called Wentworth Valley on the opposite side of the peninsula from Thames and Crosby's clearing where the police made the case

that they were killed. Secondly, the very fact that Urban's body was found at all because one of the prisoners who testified in court said that tammy here had confessed to him that he'd beaten urban over the head cut up his body and dumped the couple's bodies at sea well now that clearly wasn't true urban's body when they discovered it showed clear signs that he had been violently attacked in a frenzied manner and his head was almost totally removed from his body by whoever had stabbed him but But his remains were largely intact. They weren't cut up into pieces. And they were also found in the bush, nowhere near the sea.

And his skull was completely intact. So whoever had killed him hadn't killed him with blunt force trauma, as the witness testified that David Tamahere had confessed to him that he had. And also, guess fucking what? That watch that formed real crux of the case against David Tamahere had confessed to him that he had. And also, guess fucking what? That watch that formed real crux of the case against David Tamahere, they said that he'd given this trophy to his son, was found on Urban Hogland's body. It was still on his fucking wrist.

Based on these evidential discrepancies, Tamahere appealed his convictions. But the Court of Appeal of New Zealand rejected the case in May 1992, arguing that there was nothing substantial in defence claims that the skeleton revealed new evidence and that the crown had in fact provided convincing circumstantial proof. We know that's not true now. And their method of killing also not the case. And he's found in a completely different area. That is appeal material. It's astonishing. Totally astonishing. In 1994, Tamahir was also denied leave to appeal to the Privy Council, which is essentially the final court of appeal, last stop hotel. Even after these controversial new fines, all of his appeals are rejected. And there's nothing David

Tamahir can do anymore because once you get to a certain level of appeals courts, that's it, it's done, it's over. So the case looked like it was just going to fall into the realm of weirdos like us just digging around in it. But in 1995, five years after the trial, when Witness C, one of the prisoner witnesses from the first trial, came forward and swore an affidavit retracting his evidence. He said that the police had fed him information and told him that a sum of money up to $100,000 was available should he decide to give a statement helpful to the police. The prisoner also claimed the police indicated they would support his early release at his parole hearing if he did what they wanted. But then in 1996, witness C, whose name we still don't know, retracted his retraction. And now he's saying that he only signed the affidavit because he and his family were under threat of violent reprisal because of his reputation as a jailhouse narc. But then in 2007, he wrote a

letter to Tamahira again saying he lied during the trial. This fucking guy, man. Like, what is he doing? Just stop. Just stop what you're doing. I don't think you can take any of his evidence at any point during the trial or after. I think you just have to sort of strike him from the record because you just can't believe a word he's saying. Definitely. I just have no idea what he was doing. While this whole sideshow was going on, on November 3rd, 2010, after 10 years in prison, David Tamahir was released on parole. It was a minimum term that he had to serve, which does seem like being accused and being convicted of double murder. But I think it's because his health was deteriorating and that's probably why his parole was granted. And witness C, well, after all his stories and retractions and retractions of retractions, seven years later in 2017, he was sentenced to eight years and seven months for

perjury. Justice Christian Wutter, the judge on the case, even called the conviction truly exceptional. And to be honest, it is shocking because don't forget the perjury case was brought 27 years after he testified, and the jury in the perjury case actually decided that Witness C was guilty of lying when he testified under oath that Tammy had told him in detail while the pair were imprisoned together that he'd murdered Heidi and Urban. But hold on to your hats, because this isn't where our story ends. Because last year, in 2017, there was yet another potential discovery. Near to where Urban's body was found,

so again, remember the opposite side of the peninsula to where the police built their case against Tamahere, an experienced bushman, Alan Ford, which is hysterical. I'd love to see a business card that just says, Alan Ford, experienced bushman. That's like what you put on a t-shirt, isn't it? Female body inspector, FBI, Alan Bushman, experienced experienced Bushman. That's like what you put on a t-shirt, isn't it? Female body inspector, FBI. Alan Bushman, experienced.

Alan Bushman. Alan Ford, experienced Bushman. Just change his name. He should. Alan Bushman. So this experienced Bushman stumbled across a plastic bag with decaying women's leggings inside. And he said that as soon as he saw them, he had just one thought.

Heidi. This is an area that the public just don't go. People aren't leaving bags of leggings around on a regular basis. It's really remote. And the bag Alan found the leggings in was partially buried, almost swallowed by the undergrowth. When Alan opened the bag, he found three pairs of really, really old leggings, two black pairs and one white pair. White leggings is a very strong choice. Very 90s, I'm going to say. Alan said that they freaked him out so much that he took the bag to the Wahanga Mata police station on the 5th of May 2017. He really thought it may have something to do with Heidi. So on June 25th, so almost two months after he'd handed them into police,

Alan emailed the constable he had spoken with at the police station about the leggings. But the constable emailed back that day saying that his superiors had no interest in the items and that they wouldn't be testing them. The constable also said that the police would destroy the items if Alan didn't want them and that if he did want them, he'd have to say so. Alan emailed the police officer back the very next day to say that he did want them back because he wasn't satisfied at all that they had been properly tested. And he told the police that the next time he was in town, he'd come get them. So as promised, on July 7th, Alan turned up at the police station,

only to be told that the leggings had in fact been destroyed on June 9th, almost a month before the emailing constable had indicated that they still existed. Alan pressed the police on why and they told him that they had, get this, visually examined the items and ruled them out. Apparently, they'd got a specialist in with over 15 years experience to take a look and he had quickly concluded that the items were over just 10 years old and that they couldn't possibly be Heidi's as she disappeared 28 years before. The police have since declined to comment any further on how they were able to visually determine

whether clothing protected by a plastic bag was 10 years old or 28 years old. I really feel like this is some, like, legally blonde shit. They just get this expert in who's like, Oh, no. Leggings. white leggings that's that's very like circa 2007 they're not 28 years old well 10 years max chuck them in the incinerator as we know every police department does have a resident leggings expert i know over 15 years experience in visually examining the age of leggings and i I thought my degree was useless.

So given all of this, what do we think? Was it David Tamahir? So remember when we said put a pin in it, please retract the pin. We were talking about those tourists who testified having seen a woman who looked like Heidi with the man who they identified as Tamahir at Crosby's Clearing. Well, in order for Heidi to have been at Crosby's Clearing with Tamahir on Saturday, April 8th, just after 3pm, which is when the tourists say they saw her, given that she finished getting her haircut at the salon in Thames at 2pm on Friday, and remember Thames is a three kilometre drive and then a four hour walk away from Crosby's Clearing, for her to have made it in time, the following things

needed to have happened. Tamahere would have had to meet the couple and perhaps offer them a tour of the area that very day. He would then have to lead them to a place in the Wentworth Valley near Wangamata where Urban's remains were found. He must have killed Urban here and then hid Urban's body and managed to get rid of his own blood-stained clothing, which had never been found. He would have then had to drive Heidi in the Subaru for almost an hour to the other side of the peninsula without leaving so much as a trace of blood in the vehicle or without Heidi attracting attention. And considering her partner's just been murdered, it's probably quite difficult to keep her quiet. He then must have had to walk her under duress for more than three hours up the Taru track to Crosby's clearing.

And remember, this track is notoriously difficult, even if you aren't dragging someone. But she definitely was there at some point because that's where Heidi's jacket was found. It was along this path. But the question here is why? If he killed Urban in Wentworth Valley, which which is also remote why not just kill heidi there too why drive her across the peninsula and then make her trek for hours taking so many risks being seen being caught her running off why drag her all the way there just to kill her as the police claim at crosby's well there are a couple of ideas out there and there was an idea put out

by new zealand journalist and author brian bruce his book Hard Cases. Bruce says in this book that while there were cuts to the neck of Urban's sweater and his t-shirt and the waistband of his shorts, there were no cuts to the bones of his hands, which meant he did not or could not defend himself. Also, as Urban's skull showed no signs of fracture, I think it's fair to say that it's unlikely he was knocked out before he was stabbed. So why no defensive wounds? And also, the sprawled out position in which his skeleton was found suggests that his hands weren't even tied behind his back. So it seems that maybe it was two people.

So if Tamihere held Urban down while he was being stabbed, it would explain why there were no cuts or defensive wounds on Urban's hands and why Tamihid didn't get any blood on him. So if someone else was in on the killing, it would have been the killer in front who was doing the stabbing who would have been covered in Urban's blood. And if this killer left the scene in another car, because we know they're all into stealing cars, it would explain why Tamahid didn't leave any blood evidence in the car, in the white Subaru that he potentially drove Heidi away from that scene. So yeah, that explains why he doesn't have bloody clothes to hide, why there's no blood in the Subaru.

He puts Heidi in the Subaru, drives her across, makes a hike up to Crosby's. There he rapes and kills her. Still doesn't really explain everything. If there was another person involved, why are they killing Urban and then letting him take Heidi off somewhere else? That seems weird. That does seem weird. I'm also, I don't understand why the police have tacked rape onto it.

Tammy here was accused and convicted of other sexual crimes. And also the prisoners who testified said that he admitted to them that he had sexually abused both of them. All right, that makes more sense. So, okay, say we go with this theory that it was two people. And given the lack of defensive wounds on Urban's hands, I think this does have credibility. But who is this other man who could have been involved? Well, another journalist, Ian Wishart, wrote a book in 2012 called Missing Pieces. And in this book, he suggests that he knows who the other man who would have been involved could be.

Huia George Foley. This man, Foley, had escaped from a mental institution and attacked a Catholic priest whilst trying to rob a church. And after this robbery and attack, guess what? He fled into the bush. And yep, he was in that bush on those very same trails when Urban and Heidi disappeared. And yes, his route through the bush would have taken him through or close to the areas where the couple was last seen and where urban's body was found when he

later emerged from the bush shortly before heidi and urban were reported missing he emerged with a european baseball bat and a european sleeping bag he then used this bat to steal a car at witty anger after threatening to smash the owner's head with the European baseball bat, before having a head-on collision where he lost his right arm. And he lost it because he stuck his arm out of the car while racing down the road and hit a truck. And it just got torn off. That is my worst nightmare. Wishart said that after he advertised the book on TV and radio before its release, a nurse rang to tell him of a man who had confessed to the murders before dying of renal

failure in 2002. This man also had one arm. But importantly, she didn't know what was in the book. But when Wishart called her up and asked her a series of questions, he managed to establish she was talking about the same person which is huia foley and this is fascinating because it really does bring that case full circle he's gone off the back of this profiling the type of person that would have done this who else was hiding out in this absolutely fucking terrifying bush where everybody just runs off after they're convicted of rapes and murders and attacks of priests and whatnot and he comes up with the theory that it could be Foley

because he knows he's hiding out in the area. But this nurse comes forward and says that he confessed to her on his deathbed that he had done it and it's the same person. That's more than just a coincidence, surely. Yeah, I think it was him. What do we say at this point? Maybe it was Tamahir who still denies that he had anything to do with these murders. Or maybe it was Foley.

Or maybe, as Brian Bruce says, it was both of them acting together. I don't think we'll ever know. But if it was Foley, and one of the things that Brian Bruce says is that there are no defensive marks in the bones of Urban Hoglum, how has he done that? Especially, he's only got one hand. He's only got one arm. How has he managed to control this guy, stab him without him...

He loses the arm after the murder, though. He's got two arms. Yeah, you're right. I think it was him. I think David Tamahir isn't, you know, he just does terrible things and then denies them. That's his vibe. I don't think he's a stand-up guy.

I don't think there's anything really, apart from the fact that he had the car, which isn't enough for me. I don't think there's enough to say it was him, that he was even... But people spotted him in the area around the time they weren't missing like in the exact same spots they were and he had form and he had their subaru i don't know i kind of maybe it was both of them but then does this seem like the kind of thing you just meet a random person in the bush and you're like are you also hiding out me too let's kill this couple i don't know i need to see a connection between them which i haven't but also what if if Heidi has just faked her death in the best way possible?

Potentially, because remember, to this day, almost 30 years later, Heidi's body has never been found. And there is some like creepy stuff that people talk about in the area that Heidi is still in the bush. There are still sightings of her on a sporadic and semi-regular basis. People say they see a woman who looks like Heidi hiding out in the bush and that she's got two children with her. But that's law. I get the impression it's probably quite difficult to find someone in the bush. And also remember the mine shafts.

Like even if she, I don't personally think she's alive. I think she's dead. All this person would have had to do is chuck her body down a mine shaft. She's gone. This is thick native bushland. I know they did extensive searches, but it'd be so easy not to find her. I think she's still out there. Even 30 years later now, people still hike around the area trying to see if they can find Heidi, because the whereabouts of Heidi Pakenan is still an incredibly hot topic of conversation in the Coromandel region. It's just an absolute enduring mystery.

I don't think it's going anywhere, but I don't think we'll ever know now what happened. And please let us know what you think. We love reading your theories and there's a lot to go on with this one. There's a lot of different avenues you could take. So please join the Facebook group if you're not already in it and let us know what you think. I just saw this morning in the Facebook group, I don't know if you saw, we've hit 1000 members and it's so active. So yeah,

come join us. Tell us what you think. And also follow us on Twitter at red handed the pod. Follow us on Instagram at red handed the pod and leave us a five star review. Donate on the Patreon page if you'd like to support the show. I think we've got some Patreons for this week. We do. So we've got Iba Reddy,

Jen, Cara Henley-Stripp, Jessica DeGrasse, Megan Garrett, Meredith Kornoplinski, Cynthia Cooper, Kim Carter, Nicola H, Kimberly Carpenter, and Amanda Threckle. Thank you so much, guys. It really makes such a huge difference. We really, really appreciate your support. Even a dollar a month, whatever you can give, makes such a huge difference. Thank really, really appreciate your support. Even a dollar a month, whatever you can give makes such a huge difference. Thank you so much. All right. Don't forget, tell your mates and we'll see you next week. Bye. Bye.

I'm Jake Warren. And in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery Plus. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me and it's

taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding, and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. He was hip-hop's biggest mogul, the man who redefined fame, fortune, and the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Sean Diddy Combs. Diddy built an empire and lived a life most people only dream about. Everybody know ain't no party like a Diddy party, so. Yeah, that's what's up.

But just as quickly as his empire rose, it came crashing down. Today I'm announcing the unsealing of a three-count indictment, charging Sean Combs with racketeering conspiracy, sex trafficking, interstate transportation for prostitution. I was f***ed up. I hit rock bottom. But I made no excuses. I'm disgusted. I'm so sorry. Until you're wearing an orange jumpsuit, it's not real. Now it's real. From his meteoric rise to his shocking fall from grace, from law and crime, this is the rise and fall of Diddy. Listen to the rise and fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery Plus.