RedHanded - Episode 6 - The White House Farm Massacre

Episode Date: August 1, 2017

A secluded farmhouse, religious mania, psychosis and a total bloodbath. Today we attempt to untangle one of the most notorious cases in British history. When five members of the Bamber family were slaughtered in one bloody night - what really happened? What does the evidence say and why does so much of it seem totally contradictory? We examine the old evidence, the new evidence and even poke around the ‘missing’ evidence to ask if justice has really been served.   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Saruti. I'm Hannah. This is episode six of Red Handed, the podcast. So thank you for joining us. And today we're going to be talking about the infamous White House farm murders. I am so excited about this one. This is a really interesting case and it is absolutely one of the most notorious crimes in living memory here in the UK. It was a massacre in the English countryside where one night almost an entire family was slaughtered. The murders took place on a farm near a small village in Torshunt Darcy in Essex.

Until this horrendous crime, this village in the east of England had been famous for nothing more than its apples and maybe like an annual maple parade that they had. I have never heard of it. Yeah, I mean, there's no reason you would have. It's tiny. But in 1986, Jeremy Bamber, a 24-year-old local man,

was found guilty of murdering his adopted mother, adopted father, sister, and her six-year-old twin children in a night of bloody violence that changed everything for good. It's 3am on the morning of the 7th of August 1985 and the police receive a hysterical call from Jeremy Bamber. Bamber tells the police that he has been woken by a phone call from his dad who was saying he was terrified because his sister had gone mad and then the phone went dead.

Jeremy tells the police they need to go to his parents' farmhouse immediately because he was at his house and terrified by the call he just had with his dad. So the police turn up at the farmhouse and are met with a house in total darkness. Jeremy now suddenly shows up too. So who's in the house according to Jeremy? Neville and June Bamber, Jeremy's adoptive parents who were seen as pillars of the community. Neville was a magistrate and they were both church wardens. Possibly a bit too churchy. Especially June.

Especially June. The couple were charismatic and beloved. This couple, though seemingly perfect, charismatic, beloved, upstanding members of the community, their one great sadness was that they had no children of their own. So they adopted two babies from the Christian Children's Society. First they adopted Sheila, then three years later, a baby boy, Jeremy. June was committed to raising them as God-fearing Christians.

Even people in the village said that June took her religion too far sometimes, that the children would go on to rebel. As Jeremy grew up, he became incredibly abusive to his mother. He would say and do things purposefully just to upset her, taking glee when he succeeded. What a piece of shit. That's horrible. To do to your mum. The Bambas had a lot of money and they sent both of their children

to very prestigious boarding schools. Questionable action. In a documentary that we watched, they interview the head teacher of the school Jeremy went to and he described him as a loner, not popular and sharp-tongued. He was known as the bastard at school when the children found out that he was adopted and bullied him mercilessly.

Just classic, classic public school there, I think. The bastard. I mean, for God's sake. It's so medieval. Also, I think we should do a bit of clarification. In the UK, public school doesn't mean state-run. It means very prestigious private school. So your parents are paying for you to go there. So there's like state school, private schools, and then public schools, like way at the top. This is where he was going, and you can tell from the kind of bullying that he was enduring here but not to take away from how it would have made jeremy feel totally

so he would beg his parents to let him come home and he seemingly never forgave them for sending him away this is when we see jeremy's personality darken early events like this will have left jeremy feeling incredibly rejected on numerous fronts. The sense of abandonment that will have come from feeling rejected by his birth parents, the abandonment he felt from being sent away from school by his adoptive parents. He would have felt that he didn't belong anywhere. And as a child, as a vulnerable child, how can you cope with that? You surely detach from your emotions to avoid pain. Is this the point where emotionally he just switched off for good? June and Neville were very conservative and very traditional. Jeremy was meant to inherit the farm

and Sheila, their older daughter, was meant to marry a nice boy and have kids. But instead, as soon as she was able to, Sheila escapes to London. Well, good on you, Sheila. Yeah, I can absolutely understand why she didn't want to be stuck in Tolshunt Darcy on this farm. So Sheila heads to London and Sheila was, she's beautiful, really, really beautiful and once in London she starts modelling and while she loved the glamour, the stress

of modelling becomes way too much for Sheila and Sheila is described by the rest of her family that she starts to leave the real world. I mean, I think this is the 80s. Oh, she's doing so much coke her face is falling off. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it doesn't help that we'll go on to later find out

all of the mental health problems that Sheila is afflicted with. And taking drugs as copiously as she probably was didn't help. Doesn't help. No. And in the documentary I watched, actually, her cousin describes Sheila as pleasantly senile. That's awful.

I know. This is a girl, like, in her late teens, early twenties at this point. But Sheila's rebellion continues, despite the fact that she's not enjoying the modelling. And instead of her marrying a nice farm boy, as her parents would have wanted, she marries a penniless artist and has twins, Nicholas and Daniel. And before the twins came along, Sheila had been trying to get pregnant and had numerous miscarriages. So when the boys came along, they became everything to her. Yeah. And that's so like classic, isn't it? Like she's already got,

well, not dormant, but she's got mental health issues and then miscarriages will fuck anyone up, especially if you multiple. Absolutely. And she's probably got this kind of underlying sense of abandonment. So it's like, well, I'll make my own family and then they can't leave me so while sheila was able to escape the village jeremy was stuck at home and just became more and more resentful and felt he was entitled to more like you'll see like he becomes just the most entitled piece of shit he said jeremy works on the, but lives well beyond his agricultural wages because he has rich friends because he went to public school. And I also feel like rural parts of anywhere,

you do have like old money families. Oh yeah, yeah. And I think that's what the problem was. And he couldn't keep up. Not because his parents didn't have money, but because he didn't have a better job. So he would go to London, go to strip clubs. Jeremy just becomes more obsessed with money and status.

But, as you just said, he can't sustain his lifestyle. And the 1980s was absolutely the era of greed. Have you seen that Harry Enfield sketch? He has a character called Loads of Money. And it's from the 80s, and it's from that period of time where like working class people because of that tourism suddenly were making so much cash oh absolutely everything was tied into it the whole like that's why we lost so much of the social housing in this country because it was just like everyone should buy their own house buy your own council house and it was it fitted in with the kind of vibe of that era the whole idea of like look at trump's kids right

eric and donald trump jr they look like they're from the 80s. The slicked back hair, the power suits. You can just imagine the giant cell phones. Gordon Gekko greed is good. It is Wolf of Wall Street time. And all these boys, this guy also wanted that lifestyle. In order to fund his lifestyle, he does what anyone would do and starts growing weed

and selling it to fund his fun. June, quite rightly, is livid by her children's lifestyles and their rebellion and it drives her to become more and more religious. She wanted her children to be decent and moral and good and a positive reflection of her family and herself and that just wasn't the way it was going. Jeremy, seeing how much his behaviour was upsetting his mum, even started doing the farm work in full new romantic gear and makeup. Yeah. And if you don't know what we mean by full romantic, think like Adam Ant. He's driving tractors dressed as Bowie. Yeah, exactly. Almost like piratey. Yeah, it's like Louis XIV. Weird, surrealist, I'm taking loads of

drugs, dressed like a high pirate a high pirate but he was doing the farm work like like that's attention driving tractors dressed like this in rural essex rural essex in the 80s oh my god so yeah it was clearly all to shock people and annoy his parents despite all of the partying and the dressing up to go farming, Jeremy finds time somehow in his busy schedule to strike up a relationship with a girl called Julie Mugford. Very unfortunate surname. And he does take her for a bit of a mug. I mean, based on what happens later in the story, she does get mugged off a bit. But according to his friends, when he wasn't with Ms Mugford, he was shagging anyone he could get his hands on. So meanwhile, while all this is happening

and, you know, he's pissing off his parents dressed in his costumes and whatnot to do the tractoring, Sheila and her penniless artist husband break up. Oh, Sheila. And the broken marriage completely destroys June. And June goes on and has a breakdown. And she's diagnosed with psychosis.

And it's at this point that her religious beliefs completely spiral out of control. And she starts to see the world in terms of just good and evil. And finally Neville has her institutionalised. And as if this isn't enough, the breakup of her marriage leads Sheila to also have a breakdown. And she's also institutionalised. and she is diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia she believes her mum her and her twins are being possessed by the devil oh man i know it's a real bummer pair that with severe mental health problems and then this is what you get sadly do you know what she makes me think of she makes me think of carrie's mum yes yes absolutely that's what i was thinking when this was all going down after the treatment however good that would have been in the 80s i don't know

but after the treatment they're released and neville buys sheila a flat in london to help her recover at this point jeremy's still working on the farm and he is furious and he starts pressuring his dad for more money for a flat of his own anything but his dad refuses. June is also then released and returns home and needless to state relations at home are definitely not easy but only Neville suspects that something might be really really wrong and he actually confides in his secretary Barbara. He makes her swear never to tell anyone what he's about to tell her and he tells her that he wouldn't be surprised at all if his life was cut short in a shooting accident and if it was it

will probably be jeremy shut up yeah barbara is like crying in this documentary when she says this because she never told anybody but it's because neville who is he gonna tell yeah his wife is not mentally well he suspects one of his children his other child is also not mentally well who's he gonna tell so he sells barbara his secretary and he tells her never to tell anybody and he's explicit about it he says that's so specific i know i know but they're farmers they've got lots of guns around and maybe before something has happened but barbara said that he was incredibly upset when he told her this but he didn't want to burden anyone with this so let's skip back to the morning of the killings now we've done a bit of background

run up the police and jeremy are stood outside the farmhouse none of the lights are on and jeremy tells the police he called them because he wasn't going in the house himself because in his own words it's either full of dead people or full of dead people and a nutter with a gun. The nutter he's referring to is his sister. Jeremy tells the police there are lots of guns in the house, they do live in the country after all, and he tells them that his sister has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. On this information, the police stood outside and waited for the armed response unit. They are outside waiting for a long time.

During this time, Jeremy draws the police a map of the layout of the house to highlight where each member of the family would be sleeping and also the possible hiding places where Sheila could be. So they arrive at the scene a little after 3am but it's 7am before the armed response unit arrives

and goes into the house. That is weird. So they're just standing there for four hours. Jeremy gets a frantic call, calls the police, they go into the house, they go to the house but they're just standing outside for four hours. There's never any like reports of them hearing gunshots or anything. Yeah to call the armed response unit I feel like there must have been a been a reason for it. And there is allegedly more of a reason which we come on to later but there's not anything as specific as they hear a gunshot. The scene that meets them in the house

is a brutal one. There is blood and chaos everywhere. Neville's body is the first they find in the front room. He's obviously dead from the sight of his horrific injuries. He's been shot and beaten. There's a gunshot wound on his shoulder and his back is covered in marks indicating he'd been forced down the stairs before being finished off in the living room. So as the police then continue their search through the house they find the two six-year-old twin boys shot dead in the bedroom upstairs and they've both been shot dead execution style in the back of the head clearly while still asleep in the master bedroom they find june jeremy's mum shot to death in her bed and on the floor of the master bedroom they find sheila's body she had died of two gunshots to the neck and the positioning

of her body and how she was found is really really important to note so she's found cradling the gun almost as if it's lying across her body, but like upwards. So it's vertical, yeah. So it's vertically up her body with tip of the gun resting under her chin. She's completely clean, immaculate, even down to perfectly manicured nails.

All the windows and the doors of the house are shut. So yeah, obviously like no one could have come in or out. The police immediately think that Sheila killed the family then shot herself like classic murder suicide but Jeremy's reaction is also raising some eyebrows outside. The police describe him as laid back but like he was over acting and trying to seem upset. Multiple senior officers comment on his odd behaviour. They even talk about a weird moment where he runs off and they see what they think is him trying to make himself sick. This is a difficult one because it's

people have weird reactions to grief, but it's either he's just a really fucking weird person or there's something going on here. I mean, he's a really fucking weird person because back to when they were standing outside for four hours, they arrive after three at the house after the call from Jeremy's dad. They then stand around outside until 7am when the armed response unit comes out. Regardless of whether police have to do this to follow procedures if they think there's an active shooter within a house. Yeah. What was Jeremy doing?

Just hanging around outside drawing maps for them? If that was my family... I'd go in. I'd want to go in. We demand that they go in. Because the last he knows, he spoke to his dad on the phone when his dad said that your sister's gone mad. But now, all of a

sudden, you're just going to hang around outside. You don't even know for sure that the rest of your family are dead. They might just be being held hostage by your nutter sister. Yeah. But he has no interest in going in to find out. He doesn't, but he's not super close to his family, is he? Like, he's not...'s not no he's not but then why come there and hang out for three out four hours and draw them the map and all of that but not enough care to what be like screaming at them to go inside the

house and take his family i think that's that's very bizarre and obviously though all the like trying to make himself sick and all the hysterical crying, as is reported by the police. And it transpires the police believe Sheila did the killing. And initially, there is sympathy for Jeremy from the rest of his family and the public. But there are snippets of more weird behaviour from Jeremy and his girlfriend, Julie Mugford. When she arrives to comfort Jeremy, they go off into a room together and the police think they can hear them laughing. I can kind of see how if you see someone in the depths of grief, which it doesn't, I think I probably would try and make them laugh. Yeah. And it's almost that nervous behaviour of sometimes when you just don't know how to react, maybe you would do something

inappropriate like laugh. And bear in mind, this has just happened. Has it even sunk in? The family are found dead. Sheila's there, gun in her lap. They say all the doors and windows are shut. Jeremy was outside. Sheila did this because that's what Jeremy's told us. So the police, the case is pretty much a case closed. It's a tragic murder-suicide.

But Stan Jones, the detective in charge of this case, was seriously suspicious from the start. It was constantly being paraded as a cut and dry case and they knew it was Sheila. She's already dead. Done. He was sent in there to just clear it up. But why did they take 200 forensic photos? I'm guessing because Dan wasn't convinced that this is what happened. Because he was having none of it.

So yeah, a little bit of a shout out here. Because we do give the police a hard time sometimes. Just some really diligent police work. But as more odd behaviour surfaces and their suspicions rise, they start to follow Jeremy Bamber more carefully. And other family members also start to wonder about Jeremy when they hear his answers to the police. As Jeremy tells them, what a wonderful relationship he had with his parents and they knew that this obviously wasn't true it was an incredibly fiery dysfunctional relationship he psychologically tortured his mother absolutely but then again you know if your parents died like when anyone dies you say oh they were such a great person like oh yeah so you wouldn't would you bring this up you know just

to play like devil's advocate but in any any case, officially, it was a case closed. Murder, suicide, done. But in the coming months, the police would realise that they had made a huge mistake. Suspicions were growing big time about Mr. Jeremy Bamber. Jones knew Julie Mugford was the key. He knew that she knew the truth, but she was too scared to tell him. All was in on the whole thing. But he couldn't find a way to find the evidence to back his suspicions, especially with the case officially closed. It looked like Jeremy was going to get away with it. Even his own family felt scared of him. And in the documentary, his cousin talked about how they were worried about who would be next on his list.

The grossness of his behaviour really peaks at the funeral where Jeremy is leading the mourning. But to begin with, people are totally convinced by his grief, by this act of grief. He's a performative person. He farmed in fancy dress to be seen. And the way he was expressing his grief was just like so much sobbing and screaming but like total dry face like there's no real tears but the minute he was out of public sight he began to act pretty differently and his family remember thinking that he he did it he committed the murders because of the huge smile that would spread across his face and it's absolutely that thing of like duping delight that yeah like he couldn't hold it yeah absolutely you see it in so many cases where it's like someone who's committed the crime and they they're getting off on the fact that

they're tricking other people into they've got a secret they're concealing something and you'll catch that smile flash across their face it is because they're getting off on the thrill of tricking all of these people what's interesting to note is he only did this when he thought like no one of note was watching. Yeah, absolutely. The family said they saw him smile and they knew then that he had done it because he was doing it when no one who mattered was watching. The relatives are now totally convinced that Jeremy did it and they suspect that the police haven't searched the house thoroughly enough because of the suicide conclusion. So the family are convinced that Jeremy did it after seeing the funeral,

but they're worried that because police have cut and shut this case and said it was that Sheila did it, they're worried that the house wasn't searched thoroughly enough, which seems like, is that an odd conclusion to jump to? I am very suspicious of this part of the story. I wouldn't take it into my own hands.

It's very proactive. Yeah. I felt like if the investigation, if wouldn't take it into my own hands. It's very proactive. Yeah. I felt like if the investigation, if I personally felt it wasn't thorough enough, I would approach the police and be like, I think you need to do this again. I would not do it myself because that's how you end up like a band of knocks. Yeah. But this is what they do. This is exactly what they do. So the family all get together and go to the house themselves to go on a hunt for evidence that might have been missed? I mean, this is how convinced they are that he did it. So once they're in the house, do they even know what they're looking for? In the cupboard under the stairs, they find something.

Something that would turn out to be an absolutely crucial piece of evidence. It's a bit of a cliche though, isn't it? Finding it in the cupboard under the stairs. Is that also where you might try to hide something? I would get rid of it. Yeah, you would, especially because he's out. He's out and he has access to the house. Why wouldn't he just get rid of it? Why isn't it still on the gun? If the silencer was in the cupboard and Jeremy Bamber knew it was there, why didn't he just get rid of it when he was out? I don't understand why you would take

it off the gun in the first place. Even that aside, why didn't he get rid of it while he was free? He wasn't being held by the police. And if the family could get into the house, so could Jeremy Bamber. Oh, totally. So why didn't he leave it there? They find the silencer. They hand it over to the police. And it turns out, as we said,

to be an absolutely crucial piece of evidence. It was the silencer from the gun that was used in the massacre. So why does it turn out to be so relevant? Firstly, when they pick it up, it's sticky. It has blood on it. Why are they picking it up with their own goddamn hands? I know. The 80s? You had television in the 80s. Did they know this much? Like, now you would

know not to pick it up. What's more surprising to me is what the actual hell the police didn't find it. If it's just lying around in the cupboard under the stairs. Yeah, if someone who isn't trained in, like, forensics can just stumble across it, what the fuck were the police doing? Stan Jones was just absolutely not convinced and we're shouting him out for diligent police work and they were taking 200 forensic photos even though it was like clearly apparently a murder-suicide. How did they miss the silencer? The bloody

silencer in the cupboard under the stairs. I feel like the cupboard under the stairs is one of the first places you look. They apparently don't and that's where the silencer is so the family call the police and hand it over and meanwhile Stan Jones, the detective in charge, is also busy finding more evidence the weapon that was used in the massacre was a 22 caliber semi-automatic rifle and during the attack the killer would have needed to deliver 25 rounds on target to kill everyone who was killed in the house they would have needed to reload the gun

twice they have to know what they're doing these are absolute issues that come up with sheila having done this because she would have needed the skills and the experience to do this. Firstly to be able to reload the gun and to be able to deliver 25 rounds on target but she apparently she had never used a gun in her life and also this is the bit where it gets a little bit like legally blonde. It would have wrecked her manicure. Her nails would have been chipped if she had reloaded that gun. Her nails would have been chipped if she had reloaded that gun. Her nails would have been chipped if she'd had a wrestling match with her father in the kitchen. Absolutely. Let alone reloading a gun twice. Absolutely. But her nails, when they found her body, were immaculate.

Jeremy here makes a huge mistake. He dumps Julie Mugford. Well, as all this evidence is piling up against him, he goes and makes this stupid decision to break up with Mugford. As all this evidence is piling up against him he goes and makes this stupid decision to break up with Mugford. And almost immediately Julie turns on him. Julie tells the police that Jeremy broke up with her because she knew what he had done and that she had kept telling him that she had to say something to the police.

And apparently he was getting nervous of her spilling the beans. So she tells them how Jeremy had planned it from start to finish and made her cover for him. I don't buy, for a second, if she had all of this sensitive information on him, that he would want to piss her off. No. You know your boyfriend planned and executed his entire family, including his two six-year-old twin nephews.

What are you doing threatening him? I don't buy it. If you want to tell the police, go tell the police. why are you constantly telling him that you need to go tell the police what he did and then also exactly like you said what his solution to this is to break up with her he would murder her absolutely if he's his cold-hearted killer she wouldn't tell him in the first place and he's probably feeling pretty cocky because up until this point he's kind of got away with it yeah she's pissed that he broke up with her. But the police now finally have something which they can nab Jeremy with.

Jeremy, meanwhile, has been living the absolute life since the murders. He's been pissing away all his money. Spent £6,000 a night on a hotel room. Where is this hotel? £6,000 a night in the 80s. London. He's spending all the family's cash. And he's like, oh, this isn't going as far as in the 80s. London. He's spending all the family's cash and he's like,

oh, this isn't going as far as I thought it would. So he sets up a scam for more money. So Sheila, his tragically now shot in the neck sister, was beautiful and she was a semi-famous model when she was living in London. And now she'd been murdered in this sensational way. Predictably, the tabloids were going absolutely fucking nuts

for it. And they even nicknamed her Bambi, which is gross. But like, she does kind of look a bit like Bambi. Like she's got like the big eyes look. Jeremy decides he's going to cash in on this. So he calls the son and tells them, I can't even say this without feeling absolutely reviled. He tells the son that he has photos of his sister to sell to them and apparently they were sexually explicit pictures of her. Who the fuck even makes that up? Even if it's not true why would you even say that? I know it's disgusting. The reporter, so a son reporter in the 80s was allegedly shocked by this. That's saying a lot. And in the documentary where he's being interviewed he looks like he was disgusted by this and That's saying a lot. And in the documentary where he's being interviewed,

he looks like he was disgusted by this. And instead of running the story, he tells the police. And then he runs the front page story about the scam instead. Oh, for God's sake. So he still gets his byline, though. It's probably a better story as far as they're concerned anyway. Makes them look good. Exactly.

Oh, we wouldn't do it. Yeah. But look at this guy. I know. But he talks about in the documentary how he was shocked by Jeremy's cold nature. It's not long. It's a few weeks. Like a month since his sister and his whole family had been murdered.

And he's there trying to sell Sheila's photos to the Sun to make a quick buck. The reporter also says that Jeremy talks about Sheila like she was an object. He just wanted money. So he's obviously realised that by now the evidence is mounting against him. So Jeremy leaves for Saint-Tropez and two police officers follow him and monitor him to make sure he's not just absolutely doing a bunk. But as soon as he returns and reaches Dover, they arrest him. And on the 29th of September, seven weeks after the crime, Jeremy is charged with the murders. And despite all of of the evidence he still maintains his innocence.

It's a pretty quick turnaround, seven weeks. Yeah, it's not bad actually. I mean, he didn't even get that far. I mean, they caught him out in Dover on his way back. The police, once they take him into custody they question him for hours but he never confesses.

Instead he plays games during the police interviews doing weird things like pulling the threads out of his jumper and then flossing his teeth with them. That is so fucking gross. It's such a big, like, middle finger to them. Yeah, it's like, you haven't shaken me. Yeah. The trial begins on the 2nd of October. So what was the

evidence? The silencer, absolutely crucial. Sheila's blood was found on the inside of the silencer. She couldn't shoot herself twice in the neck. Even getting up the ball to shoot yourself once. Yeah, yeah. And I don't feel like people kill themselves by shooting themselves in the neck.

I feel like it's in the mouth or the temple. Absolutely, because you need to know. Or like under the chin. You need to know it's going to be absolutely game over. But she shoots herself twice in the neck. And then also what? She then gets up and shoots herself twice in the neck and then goes downstairs,

put the silencer in the cupboard and then goes back upstairs to die yeah it makes no sense at all so let's remember this is a rifle it's not a pistol so it's really long and if the silencer was on the end when sheila killed herself it would have been too long for her to be able to hold it her fingers wouldn't have been able to reach the trigger also i feel like if you're firing there's got to be some kickback. It would fly out of her hands. Absolutely. It was found, like, cradled on her chest. Like, they said that it was above her necklace and below her chin,

exactly where the shots were fired. And so if I shot you, I would fall, like, I would go backwards. Yeah. How would it not fly out of your own hands if you shot it pointing towards your own neck? The real nail in the coffin for Jeremy was Julie Mugford. She testified against him, apparently was the model witness, gave a very convincing testimony, absolutely had her story totally straight. But was she a victim or was she just a scorned woman? I feel like I'm leaning towards the latter. I don't think she had any real information because he wouldn't let her have it. No. I think that she was more of a scorned woman and I think that she's not a reliable witness.

But in the end, during the trial, it came down to Julie versus Jeremy. The jury, after a day of deliberation, couldn't decide. So this blows my mind, this part. This is just insane. The judge allowed a majority verdict. How many times do you think that has happened in legal history? I think it's quite rare because usually it's a unanimous verdict or it's a mistrial. And eventually, Jeremy Bamber is found guilty by the jury 10 to 2. And he's sentenced to a minimum term of 25 years. And the judge described him as evil beyond belief.

So if we look at sort of Jeremy Bamber's sort of like personality profile, he obviously has a personality disorder. He ticks many of the boxes of psychopathy. The kind of things like the pleasure he derives from tormenting his mother when he was younger, when she was alive, do things like release rats into the house even though he knew she was terrified of them. The constant need to rebel, break rules, the sexual promiscuity,

because everybody said, you know, he was at strip clubs all the time. He was shagging any girl he could meet. And this need for very high levels of stimulation as he was so prone to boredom. The grandiose... They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near LA in 1983,

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season only on Wondery+. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today. The nature of his personality, the arrogance, the entitlement we constantly see, the way others describe him as someone of having little emotion, being shallow and fake, the incredibly manipulative behavior that he shows throughout his life. It comes down to the fact that he's not mad, he's bad.

Yeah, I agree. At the time, his lawyer, Giovanni Di Stefano, who was also, fun fact, the lawyer that represented Saddam Hussein and Kenneth Noy. That is such a good fact. I know, it's interesting. He's got form. He's got form, but yeah. Giovanni makes an interesting decision at this point.

He admits that Jeremy is indeed a psychopath, but he didn't commit these murders. Why are you prejudicing my client? Just because he's a psychopath? He didn't murder his whole family. And during the initial appeals, Stefano made the case that vital evidence regarding this case were being withheld. So let's take a look at the evidence that seems to contradict Jeremy's guilt. There is a crime scene photo of Sheila taken at 9am that morning,

so two hours after the armed response unit entered the house. The phone call was made at 3, the police arrived just after, they call the armed response unit, the armed response unit arrive at 7 and enter the house. This photo is taken at 9am and that whole time between just after 3 and 7am when the armed response unit entered the house jeremy bamber is with the police the entire time he makes a point that he never he doesn't want to enter that house so this photo taken of sheila is so important because in the photo it looks like there's blood pouring from sheila's neck wounds for this to have been the case this photo would have been had to been taken within two hours of her death for it to still be flowing from her neck and still look wet. The forensic guy in the documentary says it would have coagulated,

it wouldn't have been flowing that way. This put Sheila's time of death now at 6.30, maybe 7, maybe at the very earliest, 5am. But no earlier than that, definitely no earlier. And Jeremy was standing outside. Jeremy was standing outside with the police, drawing maps of where he thought Sheila could be hiding. So how could Jeremy have shot her?

With the power of his mind. Oh, yeah. Defano, the lawyer, also now says that they, that in one of the 200 forensic photos that were taken at scene of the crime, they can see a suicide letter in the photo that was stuck in the Bible on the floor near Sheila's body. Where is this suicide note? Where's the Bible? The Bible was destroyed by the police. I wonder whether... Stop me if you think this is too out there. So we've got the religious maniac mother who has been sectioned. Yeah. And we have Sheila who logistically couldn't have shot

herself in the neck. If the silencer in the neck if the silencer was on if it wasn't she could have but it wouldn't have stayed in her hands what state was June's body in? June was still in bed so it looked very much this is what my thinking I was like is it June? because she was furious at her children she'd been sectioned and she'd been

diagnosed with psychosis but it looked very much like June was shot in her sleep. Right. She was in bed. And then also, why would Neville have said it was Sheila on the phone? Absolutely. I really thought I had it there.

I thought I cracked it. No, no, I was with you and I had that same thought process while I was doing the research. But no, June was very much probably asleep or surprised and shot while she was in bed. I don't think there was any repositioning of the body or anything. Also, who's doing the blood spatter analysis? I feel like that is something that is really missing from this evidence. Oh, there's so much missing from this evidence. Literally so much is missing from this evidence.

Stefano has a couple of other theories. Stefano said that if it wasn't Sheila, then this is sensational, then it was a huge government conspiracy. We're talking a state-ordered murder and a massive cover-up. How come? Because of Neville. Neville had worked for the Secret Service during the war and five of his friends who he had worked with in the civil ser...

Civil service. That dangerous civil service. Secret service. Secret civil service. The government just going round... MI6 just going round killing civil servants. Neville had worked for the secret service during the war, and five of his friends who had worked with him all died between 1963 and 1973.

So was there state involvement? Is there a huge plot to murder a family in rural Essex? And this guy who's now just a farmer. Yeah, it seems... I'm going to say probably not. I don't think so. I would really like to think that if Her Majesty's Secret Service were involved in this killing,

they wouldn't leave a silencer in the cupboard under the stairs. I'd like to think they're a bit more slick than that. And why kill the whole family? Why not just execution? It could have done anything. Farm accident, whatever. Yeah, they could have just disappeared him. They can do whatever they want. It's MI6. No.

I just don't see the government, like, going into a farmhouse and murdering two little six-year-old boys as well. No, me either. The police and CPS strenuously deny any fraud or cover-ups or hiding of evidence, but they would say that, wouldn't they?

If I was going to do a cover-up i would also say there was no cover-up i mean you're not going to admit to the cover-up that defeats the whole point of a cover-up thanks hannah all right then at age 24 i always forget he was so young age 24 jeremy bamber was convicted of five murders on the basis of questionable circumstantial evidence. I think, you know, questionable is like at its best it's questionable. It's all circumstantial. He has always claimed the police have withheld evidence that would prove his innocence.

Evidence that was not disclosed at his trial or at both of his unsuccessful appeals, the first in 1989 and the second in 2002. This is despite the fact that Essex police have been ordered three times by the courts to make a full disclosure of material relevant to Bamba and have failed to comply. Surely, how much trouble can you... you must get in trouble for that. They did this again and again and again, as we'll see, though. They just failed to comply. They just didn't disclose any of the information that his appeal team, his appeals team and the appeals court was demanding that they release. They were ordered to release this information and they never released it. And not only did they not release it, but in 1996, special branch officer ordered its incineration. And that is, I think, I don't know.

And when he was called up to like an inquiry about this he just said oh we'd been unaware of the court's ruling are you kidding you don't incinerate evidence for no reason i mean yeah and especially when there were still active measures to have appeals about that case absolutely you can't it's it's mad i want to know who answers for that so i know nobody apparently as far as this goes and 2001, ahead of the second appeal, the Court of Appeal again ordered Essex Police to disclose all material, including pre-trial evidence,

all details of the destruction of DNA material by special branch, all laboratory submissions, and all material relevant to the finding of the Police Complaints Authority inquiry. There was only partial disclosure this time. And a year later, the Court of Appeal again ordered disclosure of specific materials, including audio tapes, diaries, witness statements,

a statement regarding regulations governing the destruction of exhibits, and the statement of the officer who authorised destruction in 1996. Again, the order was only partially complied with. How is that legal? It's, the law is only as powerful as those who enforce it. And whether this is law or not, no one was, seems to have been enforcing the police to comply with this. Even as late as March of this year, so it was March 2017, campaigners have written to the Essex police calling for the full disclosure of material that the police were first

ordered to release 30 years ago. The police's sort of non-disclosure of this evidence and the destruction of evidence is highly irregular. This isn't just something that always happens. This is very, very strange. And it makes the police look like they have something to hide. Some friends of Jeremy go so far as to think the police screwed up the original investigation and now they're trying to cover up their mistakes because they can't be seen to release something that might, whether Jeremy did did it or not that might cast doubt on his conviction get him released from a very high profile case and then what I feel like it's it's one of two things either they're being paid off and there's some sort of great I don't think it's government involvement but they were a big money family they were it's either someone of the remaining family because now he's in prison

that estate is going to someone there's someone stands to gain financially hugely from this so I think either they're paying off the police like a Midsomer Murders type one of those

or they fucked up and they don't want anyone to know yeah absolutely which I feel like is the Occam's razor here I think it's I think it's the latter

probably in this case but I know obviously we're not really in a position to say whether Jeremy is guilty or innocent we can make aspersions based on the information that we have but either way it does appear that he didn't have a fair trial and that he didn't have a fair appeal police I feel like really need to explain their refusal to comply with successive court orders for them to release this information well they need to be held to account because even though Jeremy Obama could

be the worst person in the world he still has a right to a fair trial. Fair trial. That's what is important in a democracy that you have, and a fair nation, that you have a fair and just justice system. And he didn't receive a fair trial or any fair appeal. And there's also calls for the Home Secretary to insist that the Chief Constable of Essex complies in full. So even the Home Secretary can't make them do it. Oh, well, it's Amber Rudd. Good luck. I feel like if we had a politics podcast, it would just go very badly for everyone.

All very well. I think it'd be bad for my blood pressure. Apparently, from prison, Bamber has spent much of the past 30 years. 30 years! On circumstantial evidence. I know. So what is he now? 50?

Yeah, he's 50 yeah it's 50 51 now jesus jeremy bamber has spent the past 30 years sitting in prison obsessively sifting through the bits and pieces of the evidence that have been disclosed jeremy says he's discovered many pieces of undisclosed evidence that would totally exonerate him if he were allowed another appeal this includes statements from officers saying they could see somebody walking around in the house when bambo was standing outside with the police i just got like a chill down my spine absolutely it's horrifying like it gives me goosebumps that they're standing outside and they there's allegedly a person they can see the silhouette walking from room to room and in a in a farmhouse, in the middle of a farm, far away from this village,

in pitch blackness. I've got proper chills, I can't handle it. No wonder none of them wanted to go in. I don't blame them. Actually, I do blame them. It's their job. Yeah. He also claims that there's evidence

the police were in touch, like on the phone, with somebody inside the house while Bamber was outside. And a statement that his father,ville had called the police in addition to calling Jeremy. So he called the police as well, saying that his daughter had gone berserk. And that had not been disclosed at 999. These bits of information are what Jeremy is saying that they have. They have this evidence.

I can tell you that this happened and they have that evidence. But we in the public arena, we cannot say that that's true or not because that information has never been disclosed by the police. So it's just Jeremy saying that they know this and they're not saying it. At the trial, Bamber said he believed his sister Sheila had killed his family and that she had done so because she was devastated at the prospect of losing her two children because of her mental health problems. The prosecution just rubbished this but in 2011 Bamber discovered a letter written by Sheila's ex-husband Colin to Neville in which he expresses concern about Sheila's mental state and asks his father-in-law to try and convince Sheila that it would be better for her and the boys if they stayed with me most of the time. Hugh Ferguson, who had been Sheila's psychiatrist, had since said that if

Neville had put this to Sheila, it would have been potentially catastrophic for her. Absolutely. And again, none of this was disclosed. The letter from the psychiatrist, all of this information, this wasn't shown at trial. This wasn't shown in the appeals i mean that would push anyone over the edge and it provides sheila with more of a motive than just she's a fucking nutter oh yeah it's motive because especially the overkill on neville because if he was the one to put it to sheila let your boys go live with their father for a bit until you until you sort yourself out and that's assuming that neville was a was a gentle man who put it like that why he was the one to face the most he was beaten with that gun as well

as shot forced down the stairs that's true that's a good point i hadn't thought of that so this list of kind of undisclosed bits of evidence that could be out there is potentially incredibly extensive and these are just the things that jeremy bamber's appeals team actually know to even look for. So some more of these things are the original note written by the civilian telephone operator and the police officer showing Neville had indeed called the police saying his daughter had gone berserk and has got hold of one of my guns. So this note from the original sort of civilian telephone operator backs up Jeremy Bamber's insistence that his father also called the police. Yes. This note's never been disclosed. Anybody who took this call, so the police officer who took the call, that evidence has never been disclosed.

So how does he know it exists then if it hasn't been disclosed? It's like they get bits and pieces of information and this is the thing, it's very, this is why it's not being necessarily taken super seriously because he's claiming that this is all out there but it's never been disclosed so is it true or is it just jeremy bamber saying anything to prove his innocence or to get off get away with this murder and another piece of evidence or another piece of evidence that jeremy bamber says is is not being disclosed is the original report made by an officer following the sighting of someone alive in the White House farm walking around who they saw through the bedroom window because apparently this is what actually prompted the request for the firearms assistance. That makes sense. That does make sense. So they turn up just after three, say they turn up at half past three in the morning,

it's pitch black and Jeremy Bamber also turns up and says oh it's my sister she's gone mad she's a nutter she's got hold of one of the guns and my family are inside terrified or my family are already dead as he thinks yeah they wait for four hours until the armed response unit gets in there to go to go in why would you go there's not even any gunshots apparently no one ever mentions gunshots so it makes more sense to me that they would wait for the armed response unit to arrive if they saw someone alive walking around in there because it's not a victim probably yeah it's probably the active shooter that does kind of make sense but again it's it's undisclosed information we don't know that this is actually true bamba's team is also still waiting for the original handwritten statements

and pocketbook entries of the 14 officers involved in the initial investigation. And also they're waiting for Sheila's medical records referring to her conversations with her psychiatrist where she informs him that she was terrified she would kill her own children. And so these are all bits of evidence from the original case that Jeremy says are undisclosed. There's also a new recent documentary made on the new evidence. Even if we

ignore the undisclosed evidence, as this is obviously very hard to consider because we don't know what to what extent this is even true, this documentary focuses on the evidence that's already out there. Even if Sheila didn't do it, even the psychiatrist's letter, if that had been presented in court Jeremy Bamber would have been acquitted. Yes. This silencer was presented in court to the jury, like it was absolutely key to the case. The prosecution showed, using the fact that the silencer must have been on during the attack, that Sheila couldn't possibly have shot herself in the neck with the silencer,

as it would have made the gun too long. That's what puts it as absolutely not sheila's for me for me is that but how could they prove that it wasn't on how could they prove it was or wasn't on during the investigation or during the crime is key there was paint on the silencer from the argo where neville was shot and sheila's blood was on the silencer so it was it was on during the attack because there was paint from the argo where neville was found dead on the silencer and Sheila's blood on the inside of the silencer, I found that it's almost like a struggle when they

were shooting Neville near the Arga like there's been a bit of a struggle, the silencer, the tip of the gun has hit the Arga, the paint has chipped off and also if there's Sheila's blood in the silencer it must have been on when she was shot. But why didn't the police find that

that's the really really key thing is that it's just under the stairs it's just in the cupboard under the stairs how did the police not find this i think it was planted i honestly do but by who because it's the family that find it i think someone in the family stood to gain right well they did stand to gain financially if jeremy goes to prison but how did they get the paint and the blood on how did they get sheila's blood on the silencer it was proven when the when the police took it in that's true dna the aga you can fake you can't get the blood like inside it but then i don't understand why you'd have a silencer on a gun during a crime and then take it off and hide it no that's that's odd if it was jeremy and he was putting the gun like cradling the gun on

sheila's dead body he realized with the silencer it's like above her face so the police will realize that she couldn't i'll take the silencer off run downstairs stick it under the stairs but then also he had time he had time to go home and call the police why was he in such a rush why wouldn't he take the silencer with him why hide it in the house i don't know and secondly why wouldn't the police have found it you were absolutely right it's very very odd if the family the family find it they touch it loads oh yeah they touched it all over so why how can that really be presented as evidence because it's it's contaminated they didn't preserve the crime scene they just went went straight in there. And I feel like you should just know better. This family went into the house looking for evidence that this had happened. And they stumble across a bloody silencer.

Which is weird. But I don't think them touching it or contaminating it is that weird. But even if they contaminated it, get a positive ID that it was Sheila's blood on there. I am like more and more convinced of your theory of he put it on her to make it look like suicide, realised it was too long. Too long. Because when they found the gun, the rifle, they said it was resting above her necklace and below her chin.

But Jeremy is not that stupid. Like if the silencer was above her face, let's take that silencer off. Yes, yeah. Because it's still got to reach her fingertips. In this documentary, there is an American gun expert. Which I think was the right call to bring in. Because we don't have too much gun crime in this country, really.

Not comparatively. We have loads of knife crime. And now, for some reason, loads of acid attack crimes. Oh my God, yeah. I know, it's horrendous. But gun violence, our police officers aren't that au fait with it so i think it was a good idea to bring in this american gun expert yes because he's been involved with 3 000 firearms cases and he re-evaluates the wounds on sheila if the

silencer was on there there would be a specific mark on her skin the expert felt the mark was consistent with the threaded muzzle of the rifle not the smooth silencer used so the contact wound seems to be without the silencer which would have made it possible for her to shoot herself but probably not twice in the neck this is the thing that even if you say the silencer wasn't on because the contact wound was smooth and it was threaded and so the silencer wasn't properly on when she was shot who shoots themselves twice in the neck that still makes no sense and why was her blood in the silencer yeah i don't buy it unless he was just holding it in his hand

he touches her touches the silencer the blood gets on the silencer he hides it in the cupboard under the stairs and he shot her without the silencer on and put the gun on her. I just don't understand why you would remove the silencer. What do you have to gain from making the gunshot louder? Maybe it fell off. I don't know. I don't know. Someone who knows about guns is screaming at us right now.

I don't know. This guy, you know, in the documentary, he does little tests, little experiments. He shows the things of, like, shooting something with the silencer on as a contact wound and without it on. And it does look like the forensic photographs of Sheila's neck. It does look like she was probably shot without the silencer on. Yeah. But again, I don't know how much that proves.

But the whole of the Crown's case revolved around the fact that the silencer was on during the entirety of the attack. Forget about the marks on Sheila's body, there are also marks on Neville's body. Neville the father. On his back, he has like these weird burn marks, like circular burn marks, which if I can find photos of on the internet, it's definitely in the documentary, if we can find them we'll definitely put them up on the Instagram. It was believed that these marks were burn marks made by the end of the silencer as he was being forced down the stairs with the gun before being shot so the belief was that he was being forced down the stairs by whoever was attacking them and then this is where he manages to make the phone call before he's attacked and shot it's all very strange would it get that hot again this is what the gun expert says he says in

the documentary they show these marks the gun expert says that they could have been produced by the barrel and not by the silencer. But he did admit that further tests would be needed. But he also said exactly what you just said, that the gun wouldn't have got that hot just from firing it. So was it even the gun that caused those burns? It could have been anything. It could have been like a car cigarette thing. Because they're like very circular burns. Car cigarette lighter that he was using to get him down

that says if you go into a house you break in whether you know them or not you take out the biggest threat first the biggest threat was Neville was he the first to go and that's why he wanted to separate or she wanted to separate him from the rest of the family bring him downstairs kill him why were the

others still asleep and in bed? I can buy that June was heavily medicated. Yeah. So I don't think she would have woken up. The kids, though. I mean, do kids sleep through things like that, though? Maybe they do. Do they not?

I thought, like, they'd be, like, quite, like, deep sleepers. Well, I suppose it depends, but, like, I've always had the impression that children will literally, like, wake up if you Well, I suppose it depends, but, like, I've always had the impression that children will literally, like, wake up if you walk past their room the wrong way. So either way, he's brought downstairs, he's got these burns on his back, we're not 100% sure where these burns have come from,

but a lot was made of it in the trial. Yeah. That they had been burned from the silencer and that this was further proof that the silencer was on. But then why is there paint from the Argo when Neville is found dead on the silencer? It feels like a... Like a struggle.

Like a struggle. The gun and the silencer hit the Argo. Paint chips off. Regardless of all of this, finally we come to the strongest piece of evidence, which arguably was the piece of evidence that sent Jeremy Bamber down, was the testimony of Julie Mugford.

Old Muggy Mugford. Old Muggy Mugford, his ex-girlfriend. Now, the jury were directly told by the judge to consider if you believe Julie over Jeremy, then you must convict. That blows my mind, honestly. So it's almost like saying disregard all the rest of the information because everything is circumstantial. Yeah.

And just go with this as witness. It's your judgment call. Witness. That's what he's saying. And that's what further proof that the rest of it is so circumstantial. Ignore go with this witness. It's your judgment call. This witness. That's what he's saying. And that's what further proof that the rest of it is so circumstantial. Ignore the rest of it. Take it into account if you want. But if you believe Julie over Jeremy, they can't both be telling the truth.

So if you believe Julie, you must convict. But what we find out here is that the news of the world paid Julie £25,000 for her story. And there are allegations that this deal was made before she even testified. If she sold her story before the end of the trial, so before she testified, she is no credible witness. I mean, that's contempt of court. But it was never proven when she did it. I mean, the News of the World aren't going to tell you, are they?

Oh my god. And the News of the World, they're the same paper that hacked Millie Dowler, the murdered teenagers, in this country's phone to listen to her voicemails after she'd been murdered. We never get to talk about nice newspapers, do we? No.

It's always like the absolute gutter press. I mean, News of the World is now out. It's out. It's bankrupt. It's closed down. Yeah, it's, yeah. Not like that's going to stop Murdoch. Physically don't have the strength to get into Murdoch right now.

If this is true, add scorned woman. If they weren't on it together, Jeremy tells her, we'll knock my parents off, then we'll be rich, and we can do whatever we want. He does it, gets rich, then he's like,

bye, Mugford. You're out. You're out on your ear. She's pissed. Yeah, she is pissed and to be honest 25 grand would sweeten any deal she's like

well I'll make my money that way then see you Jeremy Jeremy Bamber who was 25 when he was sentenced is now 51 is still unrelenting in his insistence

that he is innocent and he still pursues appeals is that a sign of innocence pursuing the appeal? Not necessarily, I wouldn't say. I think it could be, like, it's a show. Yeah. And what else are you going to do if you're in prison for 30 years?

There are those who think that he isn't appealing because he's innocent, but because he's a classic psychopath and he's just bored. And where's the attention if you're in prison? You only get attention if you're constantly appealing your case. Exactly. I just have this image of him just hunched over a desk. Bob Cratchit is like by candlelight, desperately sir. Do I think he could possibly have done it?

I think it's possible. I don't think I would have convicted him. I don't think I would have convicted him. I think he probably did this because who else would it have been? There was no like robbery or anything there and if you go back to the basics of follow the money who had the most to gain from their deaths jeremy had the most to gain and the fact that he blows through all of their money the minute they're dead before he's even arrested which is just seven weeks later he blows through all their money he did it he did it

but it was a poor trial and it was a poor unfair set of appeals and if he didn't do this it's the biggest miscarriage miscarriage of justice i kind of do think he did it because i agree that all the motives are there but there are just things I can't explain. But it's like motive means opportunity. And he had all three. If you don't really understand the photo. If I were to totally discount the 999 phone call, if I could totally discount the person walking around,

but then how do you explain her blood still being wet when he's standing outside? Again, but there were so many mistakes made with this. Yeah, that's fair. And also the other things about them seeing somebody walking around, the 999 call, the fact that an operator had taken a note of the fact that Neville had also called the police. None of that's been disclosed. It wasn't at the trial. So, yeah, so where has it come from?

Where has it come from? There's advocacy groups working to free Jeremy Bamber. There's innocent projects working on this. But I think he had the most to gain from this. He is the most likely culprit. Yeah. He did this, but I don't think it was done in a particularly fair way. He didn't have a fair trial and he didn't have fair appeals, but he probably did this. It's tough though, isn't it? Because like I think even if one piece of evidence was presented at trial, he would have got away with it. Yeah. Thank you very much for listening.

It is a complicated case and definitely during the research we fell into a big old big old rabbit hole with this. Just way down the rabbit hole. It just kept coming and coming and coming and if you want to find out more about this case you can absolutely, you can spend a day just watching documentaries and reading about this because it's also still so fresh like there's still articles there's still appeals there's still activity going on to this year 30 years later go

knock yourself out there's plenty out there please do rate review and subscribe we're still very new and every every subscription and every review absolutely helps also please follow us at red handed the pod on instagram and twitter where you know we'll post all the kind of information more facts about the case all the photos all of the research that we pull together as we produce this and also upcoming cases join us next time see you later bye Bye. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall, that was no protection. Claudine Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime, and there's much more to come.

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