RedHanded - Episode 60 - Ken McElroy: The Town That Got Away With Murder

Episode Date: September 6, 2018

In 1981 Ken McElroy was shot dead in front of at least 30 people in his hometown. Not one person called for help, not one person came forward to give evidence and to this day his murder remains unsolved. But people weren't afraid of Ken's killers, this was vigilante street justice exacted against a violent bully and pedophile, who had raped, abused, assaulted - and generally terrorised the people of Skidmore, Missouri. Finally the terrified residents had taken matters into their own hands.   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hannah.

I'm Saruti. And welcome to Red Handed. Firstly, before we start, apologies. I'm very, very, very hungover and tired. It's been a full week of holidaying for me. And I was lucky enough to go to Montenegro for five days and then come back and go to a fantastic hen party. Actually, I had a fucking great time. We went glamping in Kent. You're like the anti-glamp though. I know. I love a real camp. But they had a fire pit and I was fire queen, named by them, fire queen. I had a great time. Literally 12 hours ago, I was sat in a hot tub necking Prosecco straight out of the bottle.

You're everyone's hero. Everyone listening is so jealous of your life right now. I'm jealous of your life. When I was in Montenegro, though, at the start of the week, you know, last week we were talking about open caskets. Well, Montenegro is fantastic. Highly recommend if anyone can go, go. It's so beautiful and underrated. Went to this monastery there. And you know how in like Catholic churches and stuff, they have like relics. So like a bone or just a nail or a bit of cloth. In the monastery I went to, they had the entire body of the saint. It was St. Basil. And I didn't know

this. They don't advertise that. Not to the point that I knew it. Went there and they were just like, here are all these caves that the monks used to go and pray in and be close to God. And one of them, they were like, oh, and if you go into this one, you will see the body of St. Basil. I think I've heard about this, you know? Yeah. Apparently they were telling us like if anybody is like serious Christian, like orthodox, proper Christian, they will have heard of this place. It's called like the Monastery of Osterberg Monastery, something like that.

It's like in the cliffs. It's so high up in the cliffs. And like loads of people go there to like heal themselves. But no fucking wonder. They haven't just got like a little bone of like his pinky finger they've got his entire body and it's just in a coffin in this cave and you can go in and look at it and it's like covered with like a bit of red velvet but i was like shit did you go and look at it i did because everybody was going in and i went in and they were all like sort of crossing themselves and touching the coffin and i was just like humans are so weird man and then it was fucking crazy it was crazy like i wasn't expecting

that to be the case just a coffin with his body in it he's like 300 years old did it smell no i think he's been mummified because they said there's like legend around it where they put him in the cave that he'd always been in and they closed it and he was like canonized and everything and then they opened it like hundreds of years later they said that his body was exactly as it had been the day they put him in there but i think what's happened is his body was probably mummified because of like the conditions in the cave or something and then now they've just got like an accidental mummy of him in that coffin. I don't know if we should cut this bit out, but I will tell you.

I had to hitchhike. I'm not going to cut that out because you deserve to be shamed. It was unavoidable, literally unavoidable. Because I flew into Dubrovnik. I couldn't fly into Montenegro because they wanted loads of money. So from Dubrovnik, it's like a two-hour bus journey. I was like, I'll do that. Get there. There are no buses that day journey I was like I'll do that get there there are no buses that day I was like what the fuck your website said there would be no like

there's not one until nine this was like nine in the morning I landed and they were like there's not one till nine tonight I was like absolutely not so I was with my friend who has never hit shite before can either of you drive could you not have hired a car no we were looking into that but apparently at Dubrovnik airport no or if you want to you need to give them like eight hours notice that you want to do something like that so then there was all these taxi drivers being like yeah I can drive you there but it's going to be like 180 euros look to uber 250 pounds to get from Dubrovnik to Parast which is where I was staying so we finally found this one woman who was saying I'll drive you as far as the border to Montenegro. And then you have to walk the 200 meters over the border. And then

I'll call my friend who's in Montenegro and he'll pick you up on the other side and drive you the rest of the way. So we'll just break it up that way. And you can just give me 50 euros. And then he'll probably charge you the same. Still expensive, but half the price of what everybody else wanted. So we were like, cool, sick, get get in the car she then gets on the phone and is like calling somebody but speaking to them obviously in a language i don't understand and then we get to the border she like drops us off takes our money and then it's just like bye he's waiting on the other side in a silver passat and i was like okay sick thanks bye and then we crossed the border get to the other side bear in mind it is like 35 degrees I was melting there is no silver passat there is no car I had no

internet there was nobody there and the guards like in the border control bit like you couldn't even see them they were in like tubes that that you could they just put their hand out get your passport and look at you can't even see their faces they can see you and so I didn't even see them they were in like tubes that that you could they just put their hand out get your passport and look at you can't even see their faces they can see you and so i didn't really feel like they were the most approachable people to ask for help given our situation border guards generally aren't no so we stood there for a while looking totally lost like what the fuck there is no number we don't know anybody there's no silver passat and then this car pulls up and it's these two guys like one elderly guy and one like young guy. And they're like, are you ladies okay? Well, first they ask us in Serbian and then they look on our faces, they ask us in English. And then they were just like, what's wrong? Do you want

us to call someone for you? And I was like, I worried if I had a number. And as I was telling him what happened, I realised how stupid I sounded because I was like, we didn't know the number. We didn't know who this guy was that was going to be picking us up. We just thought a silver passata. And he was like, looked around. He's like, there's no silver passata. I was like, thanks for that. Like, I didn't realize that. And then he was like, well, we're going to Couture, which is past Brass where you're going. So if you want, we can give you a lift. And I was just like, oh my God, what do I, but what would you do? What do you do? I i was like i just want to get there i want to get out of the sun i'm dying and my friend who was with me was just looking at me

like absolutely not don't get in that car we're not getting in that car and i was like we're just gonna have to stand here all day then because there is nobody else here and there is no fucking silver passat so eventually he was like saying as well he's like you're right to be worried like i know that it can be scary but i promise you here this is like a really common thing it's fine just get in so he got in and then he just gave us like the most lovely tour of like the bay while he drove us to paris turns out he's like a doctor that works in newcastle that just was going home to visit his family and they drove us there literally what else could I do there was no choice I know I'm so I'm lost for words with you right now I know it was bad I'd like when I told my friends about it they were

like have you told Hannah not yet and then they were like you should have like Instagram lived the thing and I was like yeah let's not let's not throw fuel on the flames of my stupidity by recording it and publishing it to the internet. Though I realise that's exactly what I'm doing right now. Honestly, there was no other way out of it. But great trip and great hen. I had a good week. I just feel very, very rough right now. I'm going to say I had absolutely no choice in that situation.

I think at Dubrovnik Airport you had a choice. At the border you didn't. No. And at Dubrovnik Airport I felt like we were. At the border, you didn't. No. And at Dubrovnik Airport, I felt like we were making the right choice. That woman seemed very plausible. Well, that's how they get you. They lure you in with the women. Yeah, I know.

But the guy, the other guy was like 200 euros, 180 euros. That's the lowest I'm going. I was like, absolutely not. That's crazy. It's like a fucking hour and a half drive. I got fucking ripped off by taxis in Croatia too. So one guy charged us 12 quid for three minutes no that's outrageous that's outrageous so that happened you're unbelievable i know i don't i feel like this i will defend to the death that iceland wasn't hitchhiking but i will not say that this wasn't but my rationale to it when my

friend was like oh my god i can't believe we're doing this. I was like, that guy who was going to pick us up in a silver pass out. We didn't know him either. He was just a random bloke who was going to be in a car. Yeah, that's true. And so with these people, the whole drive, we didn't see a single fucking silver pass out. There was nobody who passed us who just happened to be late or anything. There wasn't one coming.

So we would have just been stuck there. I can't get over that woman just thinking on her feet like that, being like, oh, I'll just tell them that I've got a mate who lives there. I have my 50 euros, thank you. Absolutely. Which is outrageous anyway. Yeah, I was going to say Dubrovnik is so close to the border. Mate, she's a fucking dick. She ripped us off hardcore. But we had no choice.

But my like now conciliation was that I got all the way from Dubrovnik to Paras for 50 euros. And, you know, risking your life, but whatever. Details, hey? I mean, it's very cheap to hitchhike as long as you don't get murdered. Well, when the ultimate price is your life, who cares? Silver Passat guy could still have murdered us. Or people trafficked him. If you're out there, Mr. Silver Passat.

He's not. She's looking for you. He doesn't fucking exist, probably. Oh, you've changed your tune. Maybe he just couldn't make it. He definitely never existed who knows who knows what the real story is shall we crack on let's so this week we've got vigilante justice with a twist in the early 80s in bumfuck nowhere missouri a whole town conspired

and committed a murder but not one single soul was ever convicted of it. It's literally reverse Spartacus. At least 30 people witnessed this multiple gunshot homicide and no one ever breathed a word of who fired the fatal shots. In today's case, a whole town turned against just one man who had been abusing all of them for years. And they decided as one that enough was enough. This man was Ken McElroy, a middle-aged, multiply married bully. He looked like a fat Elvis impersonator. McElroy terrorised his neighbours and the rest of the residents of Skidmore in a number of ways. He stole, he molested young girls, he got them pregnant, he threatened people and he point-blank shot people for not doing what he wanted.

And eventually, he took it far enough for the whole town to want him dead. And as a unit, they exacted their revenge. Skidmore, as the name suggests, is a very small town. It's about 80 miles northwest of Kansas City. Kansas City isn't in Kansas, is it? No, it's in Missouri, which makes no sense to me. Yeah, oh yeah, of course. That's really weird. Why? I don't know. America. Please elaborate on why Kansas City isn't in Kansas. That is very strange. In the 80s, the population of Skidmore was just 450 people most of whom were farmers now the population is even lower at just 269 people that is that makes me feel unwell that is too small is it weird that my first reaction

was like well who are you going out with because surely everyone is related if it's 269 people they're all your cousins i know but then if it's so small it's like how easy is it to just get to the next town they're not like in a bubble. I think they're quite in the middle of nowhere, though. I think it's quite far to the next town. God, that makes me feel even worse then. On the morning of July 10th, 1981, at 10.30, Ken McElroy left his local, the D&G Tavern. Every time I read that, I just thought Dolce & Gabbana.

What does D&G stand for? Oh no, me too. It's very not Dolce & Gabbana. It's literally like a Wild West saloon. Yeah, so he left his local, the D&G Tavern, with his wife Trina and they both got into his pickup truck. He was carrying an M1 rifle with a bayonet attached and a six pack of beer because, you know, that's the look. This is half ten in the morning, so not only has he already been in there boozing, he's literally been like, give me a six pack for the road. He's a raging alcoholic. Raging.

A raging alcoholic with a rifle with a bayonet attachment. Fuck it up. Once they were inside his pickup truck, it was suddenly surrounded by at least 30 inhabitants of Skidmore, Missouri. And Ken McElroy was shot through the back and front windows of his truck. Unsurprisingly, he died, but his wife Trina made out of the attack totally unscathed, even though she was sat right next to him in the truck. This very obvious murder was never solved. To this day, no one has confirmed which person or persons fired the shots. Were the police too scared of the angry mob to exhaustively

investigate this crime? Or is it really a mystery that cannot be proved one way or the other? To find out, we have to explore who Ken McElroy was and why Skidmore hated him so much. To be honest, I've spent all week with this case and I totally get why they hated him. And it will become clear to all of you as well as we move through the events that led up to his demise. Ken McElroy was a real piece of shit and a lot of people feel like he got exactly what he deserved. I'm not one to speak ill of the dead particularly, but honestly his sideburns alone were a crime against humanity and if you don't believe me you can look them up. But the other thing we can't do is we can't condone going around killing people just because you don't like them. Even if your whole town agrees that they have to go.

McElroy's reputation as a bad news piece of shit was built up over his whole life. This wasn't something people suddenly just like snapped and they were over it. This had been going on since basically he was a kid. People were so scared of him that they wouldn't even make eye contact with him in the street. So let's look back at McElroy's life and see why maybe he was the way he was. He was born in 1934 to Tony and Mabel McElroy. Ken was the 15th, 1 55, 15th of 16 children. I mean, that's crazy. But I guess, like, people had bigger families.

Maybe, you know, contraception wasn't really a big thing in the 1930s in Middle America. With a name like McElroy as well, they could have been Catholic, who knows. But 16 seems a lot, even in the 30s, I think. But then also they were, they were like farmers, weren't they? They were like sharecroppers, which means that they lived on were, they were like farmers, weren't they? They were like sharecroppers, which means that they lived on land that they farmed on, that they cultivated, but then they would give a percentage of that crop as rent to the actual landowners because they don't actually own the land that they're working. And I guess that because they did put

all 16 of their children to work on the farm. So I guess maybe also during this time, it's just cheap labor, isn't it? Have the kids and have them work your farm. So when Ken was young, he fell off a hay wagon and cracked his skull open. Some sources claim that after this accident, Ken McElroy had a metal plate fitted in his head. I honestly don't understand how that works. A metal plate, like what? Just in your head? The only other time I've ever heard of it is in, have you ever seen Blood Brothers? No. There's a bit in that one of the kids has a metal plate like what just in your head the only other time i've ever heard of it is in um have you ever seen blood brothers no there's a bit in that one of the kids has a metal plate in his head i've never heard of an adult getting a plate put in their head so maybe it's a thing like if you're a child and your skull hasn't fully formed yet they have to put a metal thing

in to cover the gap maybe but i also don't know i don't know any doctors listening please let us know why you'd put a metal plate but then it's But then it's like, he's not a baby. That's true. I don't know. At what age does your skull stop growing? Anyway, he had a metal plate put in apparently after this incident, according to some sources, which, I mean, even nowadays, but leave alone in the 30s and 40s, I'm guessing that having a metal plate put into your head was not the most delicate procedure, especially given like where they were

in the country and everything. Like, I mean, I'm sure that fucked him up more than just a little bit. We couldn't find exactly how old he was when this happened, but I think we can safely assume that it happened before he was 15 though. And there are a lot of people who think that this injury, like we have seen so many times before, was the root of Ken McElroy's abhorrent behaviour as an adult. Head injuries can cause drastic personality changes. The most famous being the case of Phineas Gage. And if you haven't heard of him, his story is absolutely fascinating and has informed many modern theories of the connections that may exist between brain injury and personality changes. Phineas was working on the railroad between Cavendish and Vermont

after a not-so-controlled explosion. A tamping iron flew right through his skull, ripping through his brain. Phineas survived this shocking injury, and in some reports he didn't even lose consciousness. Phineas didn't lose any of his bodily functions, everything still worked exactly as it should, but Phineas himself was a totally different person his friends and colleagues found him impossible to be around and he eventually lost

his job this brain injury totally changed who he was as a person and there are also just like multiple cases of people sustaining head injuries falling into comas waking up with the ability to speak different languages fluently like that i think we just have such little understanding of how the brain actually yeah i was reading about this one case in i think in 2016 i think in america this kid who had basic basic spanish like school spanish head injury fell into a coma woke up and was speaking spanish like a native and english was difficult for him but then as he recovered the spanish started to go and he started to speak more english and then eventually he was back to basic Spanish. But when he woke up, he was like fluent.

I honestly, stories like this, I'm like, if that's true, that's fucking crazy. I also think it's like, you are better at speaking foreign languages when you've had a drink. I think, I wonder if it's connected to that. How can you acquire knowledge that you never had? Like if you only ever had basic. But if he's a, I think it's something to do with absorption. And also if you're under 14, you're're absorbing languages you don't have to learn it so maybe if he was learning it at school he was surrounded by it and it was going in he just wasn't able to

access it until he had a injury maybe it's just like cases like this do happen they are like medical phenomenon but there is no sort of real clear explanation that we could find for why this kind of thing happens but i think with the case of like phineas it's pretty like he got smacked in the head pretty fucking hard like his brain got jingled about like taken out him yeah that's what i mean like he maybe it's like he had a partial lobotomy exactly on a fucking railway track i find it not crazy to believe that his personality totally changed like it would be weirder if he was just like exactly the same type of person. But that weird ability to like gain new skills is what really is baffling to me. That I find very, very strange. But head injuries as well. I mean, we talk about this all the time. Classic, classic, classic. Head injuries, especially in childhood,

going on to lead to personality disorders in later life. Like we see this all the time. Like Fred West, perfect example. John Wayne Gacy, so many of them. But I wonder though, with Ken McElroy, I wanted to ask you about this. With Fred West and John Wayne Gacy, I perceive them, we see like a very skewed value system and like a lack of empathy

and turn to extreme violence and stuff like that. I don't know if we see it in the same way with McElroy. I think we see him as, he's just a vindictive bastard. Like he just wants to extort things from people. He never loses control, I don't think. No, we are not experts. We are by no means sort of like psychiatrists or psychologists. It's just from our own personal opinions on this

and from the reading and knowledge that we have. But like I think maybe it is like John Wayne Gacy, for example. He was a fucking psychopath. Like there is no doubt about it. He was able to control himself, have that very public persona of respectability, but then under the surface lay all that fucking dark shit and violence and anger and rage. And I think, and we talk about this later with Ken, he seems to have antisocial personality disorder. I think people can be genetically predisposed to psychopathy, to sociopathy, to antisocial personality disorder. The head injury, like we've talked about before, can be like a trigger alongside things like abuse. So I think Ken was suffering from something different, but I think he was probably just

predisposed to something like antisocial personality disorder and the head injury just triggers it the same way it did in Fred West or in John Wayne Gacy? Yeah, but when I completely agree with you, and I think that... And when you look at the symptoms of antisocial personality disorder... Yeah, but what is that though? Like, why are we categorizing someone who's antisocial as a disorder? Maybe they're just a shit. Like, I don't... What's the difference? No, that's a really good question. And actually, there is, from the reading that I've done, a lot of dispute within the field of psychiatry and within the medical profession around whether it should be even categorized. And there are people who think that it shouldn't be a diagnosable condition. But the people who say that it should say that it's

because basically it allows people to have a better understanding for their behavior. And if you look at the causes of what they say antisocial personality disorder are, a psychopath would be incapable of having empathy or love for anybody. But somebody with antisocial personality disorder would definitely be capable of love for those people in their immediate circle. They're just completely ruthless when it comes to anyone outside of that. They have very, very low morals, etc. I read a case study about this where a guy was saying, in dispute of people saying it shouldn't be diagnosable, he said all of the studies done

on things like antisocial personality disorder, psychopathy, when somebody gets a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder, so many negative connotations around it because all the research and studies are basically done with incredibly violent people who have committed really serious crimes. And he was saying that he just had a really fucked up childhood. He was sexually abused. He was neglected. He was like, grew up in poverty. And he was filled with rage and he was acting out. And he was a terrible person. And he admitted it. He went to jail and everything for the horrible things he'd done. He was out of control of his anger. And when he finally received the diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder, he said that he then was able to understand his behavior better, get the treatment that he needed.

And now he's better able to control it. So it is difficult. But when you look at the causes of it, it is like abuse, neglect. Even poverty is touted as a reason for things like this. And maybe it's just a way to level the playing field. If we can give people a diagnosis, they can understand my behavior better and get the treatment that they need this is the thing i was looking at the treatment for it what treatments are given to people with antisocial behaviors like personality types and i couldn't really and please correct me if i'm wrong because i know we've got um people who work in this field

listening what i could people aren't generally medicated for it like it's uh the treatment for is is therapy is talking through your ship so maybe you're right maybe it is helpful to quote to qualify as a disorder if you don't have a diagnosis how can you treat them yeah yeah i know you're saying though what's the difference between someone who's just a dick and someone who has this but i don't know i think like but i think if we are okay so let's accept that we're on board with the diagnosis of an antisocial behavior disorder it's it's categorized as a low moral sense or conscience history of crime legal problems impulsive and aggressive behavior and i think we can agree that ken mcelroy ticks every single box there i what i

can't shake is but i suppose it's not even that categorization isn't saying it's a mental illness so i don't know whether we can fit put him into the mad or bad category really because i i i think even if we do say he's got an antisocial behavior disorder i think he's still bad i don't think he's mad oh 100 i totally agree with you i'm not in any dispute about that because the difference for me is the difference between mad and bad is the difference between a personality disorder which doesn't excuse you for your behavior using an antisocial personality disorder or borderline personality disorder, anything like that in court in a like criminal defense sense for horrendous actions is totally not justifiable. They are not mad. They know what they're doing. So there would be no defense

of Ken McElroy in a court of law, in my opinion, to say he did this because he has antisocial personality disorder. Personality disorders don't make you mad. Having schizophrenia, paranoid schizophrenia like Richard Chase makes you mad in that sense. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's out of control. And we saw that because he would just walk out of crime scenes covered in blood. Someone like Ken McElroy is bad. The personality disorder, that's what it is. It's not a psychiatric condition. It's a

personality disorder like psychopathy. Psychopathy still wouldn't be a fucking defense. It would mean you knew what you were doing. You just didn't care. So I think it's more like the diagnosis is important so that people can access treatment like therapy and understand why they behave that way. But in no way would a diagnosis of personality disorder like this make you not culpable for your crimes. Absolutely not. He is absolutely bad, not mad. Ken McElroy left school when he was in the eighth grade, which here in the UK is like year nine, so about age 15. His literacy level though, when he left was almost non-existent. And he went out into the big bad world basically illiterate which limited his career options considerably. When he was 18 he married the first of his long succession

of wives. Her name was Aletta and she was just 16. The couple moved to Denver and a family member managed to swing the illiterate Ken a job working on a construction site. It was here that he sustained a second serious head injury. It was here that he sustained a second serious head injury. It seemed like something fell on his head and it basically split his skull. And according to Ken McElroy, it was this injury that resulted in the metal plate being placed in his head and not the injury of him falling off a hay wagon when he was a boy. But in any case, he seems to have had a metal plate in his head and two very serious head injuries before he's 20. But the worst thing about this injury, apart from having your skull split open, was the fact that it meant Ken was no longer able to work in construction. So, unable to find

work where they were, Ken and Naletta moved back to Missouri. McElroy still struggled in Missouri to find any consistent work, so he turned to a life of crime. He started out rustling livestock, which I know is very serious business, but it always makes me think of Wallace Gromit and the Scary Robot Dog. But unlike Preston the Scary Robot Dog, McElroy was really, really good at cattle rustling. McElroy would allegedly steal unmarked cattle, because in Missouri you don't have to mark all of your cattle apparently and then he would sell them at cattle markets and he would use his various girlfriends names to sell the livestock under so the sales could never be traced back to him and because they weren't marked cattle no one knew where they came from. I'm Jake Warren and in our first season of Finding I set

out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery Plus. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life.

I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me, and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding, and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall, that was no protection. Claudian Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime, and there's much more to come. This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On the Media. To listen, subscribe to On the Media wherever you get your podcasts. You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either, until I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along

with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness, and inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more. Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Either. However, he doesn't seem to move this rustling situation that far away from Skidmore. So when I was reading about this, they were like, oh yeah, there was absolutely no way the rustled cattle could be traced back to him. but it kind of seemed like he was the only guy that was doing it in quite a small area. So I think probably people did know, but they just didn't care. Stealing cattle is such a big thing, isn't it? It's such a serious offence.

Yeah, and I think it just speaks more to Ken's reputation. Like he was infamous and it seemed like he was totally untouchable. Definitely. And I think this is like the start that you see that he starts to push the boundaries. reputation like he was infamous and it seemed like he was totally untouchable definitely and i think this is like the start that you see that he starts to push the boundaries and nobody pushes back they let him because of the reputation he has and it escalates into what we see later yeah and we also see a lot of references to him being a raccoon hunter is that a is that a bad is that like a badger baiter in the uk i think I don't know whether raccoons are more universally disliked than badgers. I don't know.

As in like when they call him a raccoon hunter, do they say it in like a negative? I think so. It kind of comes up as, oh, well, he's a raccoon hunter. Like, do you know what I mean? But maybe I'm wrong. Like, please, American friends, if you can elaborate on that, that would be wonderful. I feel like maybe it is like, oh, how how you would say call someone a badger baiter or is it like raccooners fucking shit game to hunt and oh being a raccoon hunter is like oh maybe i mean because he definitely did hunt a shit thing he did hunt

raccoons that's definitely something he did i don't know someone tell us i have no idea what that means i've never seen a raccoon in my life i have they've got weird hands we've got like baby hands they kind of look really cute in pictures. Why do people not like them? Aren't they all rabid? I think they've all got rabies. But then badgers have all got TB. That's true.

And orangutans have all got Hep B. And koalas will give you chlamydia. So I hear, yeah. True story. Anyway, McElroy's lawyer, Richard McFadden, estimated that Ken was charged with at least three felonies every year throughout his adult life. I mean, fucking hell, because if you consider that he died at the age of 45, that is 30 years of solidly being a prick.

So, wow, that's impressive. Over the years, Ken McElroy was accused of crimes ranging from cattle rustling to theft to child molestation to arson and just plain old burglary. He was indicted 21 times but was never convicted of anything. That blows my mind. And this invasion of justice can be put down to two major factors. Firstly, often witnesses would refuse to testify against Ken because they were so scared of what he might do to them if they took the stand. McElroy made no secret that he would fuck up anyone who fucked with him and he was a master in the art of intimidation. His favourite trick was to park at the end of his

enemy's drive and just wait there with his rifle, complete with bayonet don't forget, in his car. Secondly, McElroy's lawyer Richard McFden, was a real criminal defence hotshot. He would capitalise on the lack of witness testimony, and time after time, the prosecution cases fell apart. One example of this happened on the 27th of July, 1976. Skidmore farmer, Romaine Henry, alleged that Ken McElroy shot him twice after he had challenged McElroy for firing guns on his property. So I think he's accusing him of poaching, basically.

Maybe hunting raccoons. Well, quite. McElroy was charged with assault and with intent to kill, but he denied that he was at the scene. According to Henry, in the run-up to the court date, McElroy parked outside his house at least 100 times. At the trial, McElroy and McFadden managed to produce two, again, two more raccoon hunters, there seemed to be a lot of them in this

story, who gave McElroy an alibi. McFadden also managed to prove to the court that Henry had not disclosed his own petty criminal past to the judge. This meant that he lost all credibility in the eyes of the jury and McElroy walked out of that courtroom a free man again. And this is just truly amazing. McElroy didn't have a bank account or a social security number. He couldn't even read. So how he managed to outwit the justice system for over 20 years is staggering. He's clearly super smart. Well, or is he there because he latches on to no witness, no case? This is the thing. I think he's clearly super smart like well or is he there because he just he latches on to no witness no case this is the thing i think he's just like obviously you can be smart in different ways like him not being able to read doesn't mean he was stupid but i think he

just like he knew how to game the justice system and he had this fucking piece of shit lawyer who was willing to do whatever it took and this lawyer is is literally like, you can just imagine him. He's the kind of person that would represent Phil Spector or like a mafia boss. He's a real grubby guy. But he also claimed that McElroy was the best client he ever had. And this is a quote, he was always punctual,

always said he didn't do it, paid in cash and kept coming back. Which if that doesn't sound like a shady criminal defense lawyer, I really, really don't know what does. It really made me think of like, you know those adverts you see on American television for criminal defense lawyers that are like, Oh, 800, I didn't do it to receive your free legal consultation. It really is astonishing, this man.

And Ken McElroy, as we said, may have been illiterate, but he certainly understood his own personal mantra. No witness, no case. So he made absolutely sure that no one would ever take the stand against him. Not only an intimidating hustler rustler, Ken was also famous for his womanising. He had 15 children at the time of his death, many of them with different mothers and some of them with mothers who were well underage and just children themselves. He's a child molester. He's a fucking pedophile. Just in case you need with different mothers, and some of them with mothers who were well underage and just children themselves. He's a child molester. He's a fucking pedophile. Just in case you need proof. In 1971, when he is 35 years old, Ken McElroy met 12-year-old Trina McLeod. She was the youngest

of his conquests, and she would prove to be the last. McElroy started to pick Trina up from school and showered her with gifts. Classic grooming. But these days out, it soon turned into trips to a local motel where he would rape her mercilessly. Two years after McElroy met Trina, she fell pregnant at the ripe old age of 14. That's important. Yeah. Let's not forget that.

Because some people would argue that this falls under the category of statutory rape and others would argue that this is child abuse. And which is it? I think this has to be child abuse because the problem around statutory rape is it's all about consent. And how can you be consenting when you're 12 years old? You can't consent when you're 12. Also, I have a question for any lawyers listening. If anyone knows what the statutory rape situation in the UK is, because I was under the impression it didn't exist in law, it was only child abuse, but I don't know if I'm right. I think it might have changed recently. So if you can let me know, that would be great because we might do a few

cases on it. It has to be about consent, surely. Absolutely. That's what I think, I think. But then what's the difference between statutory rape and rape well I think that the difference being so obviously the age of consent in the UK is 16 but a lot of places in America it's 18 so I think statutory rape cases are more to do can be more common with people between the ages of 16 and 18 whereas in the UK if it's under 16 you're getting into like 14 15 territory which is like where maybe you can't give as much consent as a 17 year old could but i don't even know if i agree with that really no i feel confused by that but no in this case if statutory rape is about consent this is 100 child abuse because

she's a child she cannot give consent so it's irrelevant whether she gave it or not she's incapable of giving it it's child abuse he's He's a fucking paedophile. 35. She was 12 and she was 14 when he got her pregnant. Yeah. Fucking hell, that's disgusting. But don't worry about it, guys, because the ever crafty Ken and his even craftier lawyer had a plan to get out of these charges, whether they were statutory rape or child molestation. He's so cunning.

Yeah. That's the thing. He's so cunning. If Ken married Trina, then she would be unable to testify against him in court. And this was not the first time Ken McElroy had pulled this trick either. A few years before, he had shot a teenage girl called Sharon, who he'd been having sex with while they were arguing. He claimed that the gun went off by accident. But just in case, he married her anyway, so she would be unable to testify against him. Well, it's important to note that she could testify against him. If you're

married to somebody and they are the person on trial, you cannot be compelled, you cannot be forced to testify against them. So this is his whole plan and it works out. And he knew that this approach worked. So McElroy went to Trina's parents' house and told them that if they didn't allow him to marry Trina, then he would and told them that if they didn't allow him to marry Trina, then he would burn their house down. Because remember, she's 14, she needs their consent to marry him. So he obviously goes there and makes these threats and they are terrified. And they know him, they know his reputation, so they don't know what else they can do. So they give their consent and Trina and Ken get married. But as we've seen before,

Ken wasn't particularly keen on getting rid of his current wife, but he divorced her so that the marriage to Trina would be legit and legal. But after he married Trina, he moved her in with him and his ex-wife Alice. So just let that squalid situation sink in. And 16 days after this, her baby was born. Trina made a break for it and managed to escape the McElroy house with her new baby boy. And Alice, the ex-wife, went with her. So both of them were basically being held there, captive by this man. But McElroy obviously was not having that. So he went back to Trina's parents' house, shot their dog and burnt their

house to the ground. I mean, he's a man who follows through, doesn't he? Yeah, but just leave the fucking dogs alone. Don't know how many times I have to say it. Trina told her doctor all of this during one of her appointments. And as a result, Trina and her baby were moved into foster care. And that just really hammers home how young she was. She's not even going back to her parents' house. They're like, you're not fit to look after her either, clearly, because look what has happened. She's going into foster care. McElroy was indicted in June of 1973 for arson, assault, and statutory rape, not child abuse. He was arrested, arraigned, and released on a bail bond of just $2,500. And straight away, he set about making sure that absolutely no one would

be testifying against him in the upcoming trial. He offered a reward to anyone who could find out where Trina and her baby were living and before long he had found them. He sat outside Trina's foster home for hours at a time and he told the foster family that he knew where their biological daughter went to school and which bus she rode every day. He promised to exchange their biological daughter for Trina and her baby. Of course, they didn't do this and additional extortion charges were filed against McElroy. But as always, he was never convicted. For a while, Trina and her baby lived with her grandparents. But eventually Trina lost the battle. She was just too tired to continue

fighting McElroy anymore. So she rang him and asked him to come and collect her and the baby and take them back to the ranch where they'd all been living before. Trina dropped all of her original accusations. And although Ken McElroy had been throwing his weight around and abusing young girls in that town for years, this was the first of his crimes that started to stir the town into action. Skidmore was living in fear. Even when charges were made against Kent, he was never found guilty. His superstar lawyer, Richard McFadden, made sure of that. He kept breaking the law. He kept stealing, raping and hurting people and nothing was being done. The justice system was too scared or too stupid to work. Skidmore was already sick of this

reign of terror. The burning of Trina's parents' house was the barrel of gunpowder. And the next part of this story was the match. 70-year-old shopkeeper Ernest Bowenkamp, or Bo as everyone called him, was just as much as an institution in Skidmore as Ken McElroy was, but a much more positive one. He and his wife Lois ran a grocery store in Skidmore and one of their employees, Evelyn Sumi, accused a child of shoplifting in the store in June 1980. What this employee didn't know was that this kid was one of Ken McElroy's many daughters. Some people say that this kid was Trina's daughter too. As Bo and Lois realised who Evelyn had just accused, they began to panic. They, just like the rest of Skidmore, knew exactly what Ken McElroy was capable of. They, just like the rest of Skidmore, knew exactly what Ken McElroy

was capable of. They decided to confront the situation head on and tried to explain to McElroy that it had all been a misunderstanding. But of course, Ken did not accept their apology. Initially, he offered Lois Bowen Camp, who was in her 70s, cash to engage in a physical fistfight with Trina, which is obviously an outrageous proposal, even for him. So, instead, he parked his car outside the Bowen Camp house for hours on end, firing his rifle into the air at regular intervals. Lois Bowen Camp recalled being so frightened that her and her neighbours took it in turns to sleep.

But that still wasn't enough for Ken. So, in July 1980, Beau was waiting on the loading dock of his store for an air conditioning engineer when McElroy turned up with his faithful shotgun and shot 70-year-old Beau Boenkamp in the neck. McElroy then drove off, leaving Beau for dead. He's an old man.

This is crazy. He's 70 years old. He just fucking... And this is like, I'm assuming, in the middle of the day, if Bo was stood outside waiting for an engineer to turn up and just shot him in the neck and drove off. This is the thing. He's got away with it for so long,

he literally can do things in broad daylight and nothing happens. How he got away with this for so long just baffles me. But this wasn't a total tragedy because, astonishingly, despite his age and despite being shot in the actual neck, Beau Bowenkamp did not die. Ken McElroy was charged with attempted murder. He was arrested, charged, and this time actually convicted of shooting Beau. But he was not found guilty of attempted murder.

He was only found guilty of assault. The jury opted for a maximum term of two years and the court released him pending an appeal if you shoot a 70 year old man in broad daylight in the neck and drive away how is that assault and not attempted murder exactly i get why they were so fucking frustrated i really do once again we've seen Ken McElroy walk straight out of a courthouse, even though everyone knew that he was guilty as sin. And he didn't celebrate his victory quietly either. McElroy went straight to the D&G Travern with his rifle, featuring the bayonet attachment, and started to make very loud and very graphic threats towards Bo Bowen Camp. Obviously, appearing in town with a rifle with a bayonet strapped to it

was a violation of McElroy's bail. So he was arrested, taken to the police station and again allowed to walk free totally unreprimanded. Skidmore had had it. If the courthouse wasn't going to put McElroy away, the people of Skidmore knew they had to do everything in their power to make sure Ken McElroy would never be people of Skidmore knew they had to do everything in their power to make sure Ken McElroy would never be allowed to hurt anyone ever again. So the Skidmoreans petitioned the

governor, the attorney general, and the state legislators. They were desperate to find anyone who would act on their behalf during this appeal case and put McElroy finally where he belonged, behind bars. But no one stepped up to help. Which I also find crazy because they know what he's like. They know the mayhem he's causing. Why are law enforcement, who must also be well aware of him, not incentivized to put him away? Like, why? I think it's a bit of like small town syndrome. Like the governor of Missouri isn't going to give a fuck about an appeal case in bumfuck nowhere. Like they're just not. So I think like when they take this extra step and are like, OK, our local law enforcement aren't doing anything.

We're going to have to take the next step. I can understand why they didn't get anywhere with that. But you're absolutely right. The law enforcement on the ground should have been trying harder. But also it's quite difficult if you've got no witnesses. How can you convict someone? I mean, this is true. You know, so they're basically the town is basically petitioning to try get some help with this appeal but meanwhile

mcfadden the hot shot lawyer managed to get ken mcelroy's appeal moved not once but twice the system had failed the people of skidmore for the last time on the 10th of july 1981 as ken mcelroy and trina arrived at the dng tavern armed with his M1 rifle and handy bayonet attachment, the Legion Hall of Skidmore was full of people deciding what they were going to do about Ken McElroy. They literally called a town meeting. They were like, this has gone far enough. Ken had come into town with his bayonet to do his classic trick of intimidating everyone, so no one would speak out against him at the upcoming appeal hearing.

But little did he know that his reign of terror was over. What was discussed in the Legion Hall, we'll never know. We can only be sure of what happened after the meeting. The group of Skidmoreans left the Legion Hall in a group. Some sources tell you that there were 30 of them. Some claim up to 60 people were there, including the town's sheriff, Dan Estes, and the mayor, Steve Peters. Sheriff Estes maintains to this day that during the meeting, he advised the townspeople not to

directly confront McElroy, but that they should set up a neighbourhood watch. Seriously, go fuck yourself. A neighbourhood watch. Yeah, maybe a neighbourhood watch would have been handy 15 years ago. Like, this has been going on for,, like this is not a job for a neighborhood watch. And Estes, the sheriff, left the meeting before it was even adjourned. Like I'm guessing that they were pretty furious at his suggestion of a neighborhood watch. I wonder if he even said it right.

I wonder whether he was actually there for the whole meeting and is complicit in what happens next, but he doesn't want to be pinpointed. So he's like, oh, I told them just to do a neighborhood watch and then I left. You can ask them them because we don't know what else was said in there you're right you're totally right so he could have been totally a part of this and is just saying oh that's the only recommendation i made and i left early actually yeah and if that is what

he said it's fucking stupid and the people of skidmore definitely didn't then go on to set up a neighborhood watch they decided to take the law into their own hands. So everyone, whether it was 30 or 60 of them, had been in the Legion Hall, all headed to the D&G tavern where they knew Ken McElroy and his child bride Trina would be. Then, as we said at the top of the show, shots were fired through the back and front windows of McElroy's pickup truck. McElroy was shot at several times, but only hit twice. Once by a centre fire rifle and once by a.22 rimfire rifle. No ambulance was called.

And I think there are two weird things about this. Number one, let that just sink in for a minute. 30 to 60 people stood around and watched a man bleed to death in front of his screaming wife. And no one helped not assault and secondly he's getting shot at multiple times ballistics proves that there's bullet casings trina isn't touched once yeah this isn't a frenzied attack absolutely not and even though the police hated ken mcelroy just as much as everyone else they did have to have an investigation into his death and this is where things get interesting. When police arrived at the scene they found shells from a.22 caliber Magnum and an 8mm Mauser. So this proves there were two gunmen. The ballistics

report showed that one of the gunmen was standing directly behind McElroy's car and the other was standing in front. So essentially they had him surrounded in broad daylight. Just like he had been doing though which is very fitting i guess it's so easy to forget like this all happened at half past 10 in the morning like this is not under the cover of darkness absolutely not trina was the only person the only person even if you think there were 30 people there 30 people that's a fucking lot of people trina was the only person who came forward and identified a gunman she claimed that one of the shooters had been a man named del clement a local man known to have a bit of a temper i don't know how i feel

about this i don't really understand why she does this like all he's done for the past 20 years is just abuse her to well 10 15 years but then also like this person shot into the car she was sat in i'd be like fucking it was you like he's dead great but you fucking shot at the car she was sat in i'd be like fucking it was you like he's dead great but you fucking shot at the car i was sat in and i had to watch this man be blown to pieces in front of me and yeah definitely could be stockholm yeah i think i hadn't thought of that actually i think that's a really good point and also like he did essentially just kidnap her and groom her from the age of 12 she can't be thinking totally clearly after just years and years of abuse and essentially he did replace her parents and raped her while he was at it.

So he has totally shaped her reality. It probably isn't that odd that she felt there needed to be justice for his death. But she was the only one in Skidmore who thought this. Because every other potential witness simply said that they were there, but they didn't see who fired the shots. This is amazing to me. Like an entire town just going, but they didn't see who fired the shots this is amazing to me like an entire town just going nope didn't see it they knew what they wanted they had a fucking town meeting they knew they were going to do this and i think assurances would have been had to have been made and they use his own mantra against him they shot him in daylight just like he had been doing with all of his crimes and they use his rule of no witnesses, no case.

And they're right. Like with no evidence, they can't do anything. Definitely. No one's going to testify. And also, you know, the police did have to put an investigation into this. But, you know, what's their appetite for really following up on this? And it worked because the DA declined to press charges on the basis of a lack of evidence. No charges were ever issued.

And the crime was deemed a murder by persons unknown. On the 9th of July 1984, Trina filed a $6 million wrongful death lawsuit against the town of Skidmore. The sheriff, Dan Estes, Steve Peters, the mayor, and Del Clement, the man she claimed to have seen pull one of the triggers. The case was settled out of court and Trina was paid $17,600 but no one admitted any guilt. Trina remarried and moved to a different town and I'm really like not mad about it. I think she definitely wasn't liked in Skidmore and she was a bit of a sidekick but I am in a way glad that she got something out of his death like she certainly suffered enough for it and there's no statute of limitations on murder so in theory

this case could still be solved but according to Bo Boenkamp's daughter, Cheryl Houston, Hal Riddle, the police chief who oversaw the investigation, confirmed that investigators were never able to secure enough evidence and if they could have proven who the perpetrator was, they absolutely would have prosecuted them. Hal Riddle has since retired and always referred to the Skidmore shooting as the most frustrating case of his career. And I can totally see why a whole town giving nothing away must be like smashing your head into a brick wall. And also it's a small town as well, so be like smashing your head into a brick wall and also it's a small town as well so he must have known all of them he must have known ken and i just feel like where was this frustration all the fucking other shit he was doing and you weren't prosecuting him for that i will never justify vigilante violence because i don't think anything good

can come from it it will always descend into madness but seriously what were you doing not prosecuting this man for his absolutely abhorrent behavior, the child grooming, the fucking paedophilia? Like, what were they doing? The town didn't just put up a barrier to the police. Nobody spoke to the press either. Because despite the media frenzy that descended on the tiny town after the murder, they all held the line. No one spoke. And that is crazy. Nobody in this town tried to capitalize on this murder for, like, gain. Newspapers will pay you money for your stories, and nobody did that. That's crazy.

Even Del Clement, the man that Trina accused, never cracked. Even on his deathbed, he never gave a hint to what happened that day in 1981. If Trina McLeod was telling the truth, and Del Clement was one of the gunmen, surely it would make sense that he was the one who shot from the front of the truck because how would she have been able to see the person who was behind the truck? So even if her story holds water and let's say that Del is the one who's standing in front of the truck about half a block up and he's firing from that angle, we still have no idea who the second shooter was and we know because of the ballistics that there were two so even if someone had corroborated with Trina on

Del Clement that's still only half the story because there were two shooters and I completely agree with you as well like I can't justify vigilante justice but I kind of I don't have any ill feeling towards del clement either i'm kind of inclined to agree with the postmaster of skidmore jim hartman who said i can't think of anyone who'd seen it feeling any different than you would feel about people who invented penicillin nobody tried to hang them for finding a way to kill a germ. It is really interesting because, yes, he was a horrific person and the things that he did, but this sort of justification can be really dangerous because what if they just decide next,

well, we'll just get rid of this person. Like, I know they were pushed to the extreme, but this self-fucking lynchings and stuff happened. It would be like, oh, let's go get those black people because we've decided as a town that we don't want them. It's like, who's setting the moral code for what is right and what's wrong i know ken mackler was awful yeah i think that's what makes this case really interesting though is it's like they've been pushed right to the edge after 20 years and people will do terrible things people will kill

people if they believe in the ideology behind it and i think that's a prime example of this it's it's terrifying we nobody is saying that you should go around killing people you don't like but the fact of the matter is ken mcelroy was murdered by two people on that morning in broad daylight in front of a minimum of 30 people and if you were one of them would you have turned a blind eye i don't know i don't know i think there's a lot to be said for mob mentality as well like you're not going to be the only one and you also have to feel like you have to have been personally victimized by this person to feel the way they did maybe if i were in that case i would have kept quiet but yeah that is the story of ken mcelroy and the town that killed him the town that got away with murder thank you for listening as ever

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Goodbye. So, get this. The Ontario Liberals elected Bonnie Crombie as their new leader. Bonnie who? I just sent you her profile. Check out her place in the Hamptons. Huh. Fancy. She's a big carbon tax supporter, yeah? Oh, yeah. Check out her record as mayor. Oh, get out of here. She even increased taxes in this economy. Yeah. Higher taxes. Carbon taxes. She sounds expensive.

Bonnie Crombie and the Ontario Liberals. They just don't get it. That'll cost you. A message from the Ontario PC Party. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off,

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