RedHanded - Episode 67 - Halloween Special Part 1: Scary Tupperware & Drywall Knives

Episode Date: October 25, 2018

It's Halloween, so in RedHanded tradition, the girls switch up the format and pull together the most disturbing and little known cases they can find to freak everyone the F out. This week's episode features a rather grim serial killer with some serious Ed Gein vibes, and a woman who will go to any grisly lengths to get what she wants. So curl up, hit play and prepare for scares.   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hannah.

I'm Saruti. And it's the one you've all been waiting for. It is part one of our Halloween special. Don't put the pressure on, Hannah. The one you've all been waiting for. The pressure is so fucking on. Like, I have never had a more stressful time trying to pick cases than for these episodes. I've had, like, night sweats.

I've had the whole shebang trying to find so much stress the most horrendous thing I can find absolutely like I genuinely searched the internet to like the point of madness trying to look for cases that were like sufficiently just scary enough for this year's Halloween two-parter because like seriously it was so hard I think just nothing scares me anymore I think that's the problem. That's how I feel. And last year, like we just we didn't know that we'd found the best cases on the internet. We didn't know that. Definitely. Because this year I went looking and I started with, you know, all those like ubiquitous, scary blog posts and websites about like top 10

most terrifying true crime stories that you've definitely never heard of that'll keep you up all night, shake you to your core and make you jump out the window etc i went through all of them i was like bullshit bullshit bullshit know it know it know it i'm not even kidding i seriously clicked through thousands of those today and it was like btk richard ramirez and seriously one of them had like ted fucking bundy on it no it didn't i mean yes it did but like and i'm not saying they're not scary but like fuck's sake why would you even bother writing that shit down i was just like get away from me who doesn't know about it that's my thing like when they're like oh like ones you've never heard and they start with jeffrey dharma like you

yeah there was one i read it was like true crime stories with a bizarre twist and i was like oh went on it and it was like the first one i'm not kidding you was that jeffrey dharma maybe fed a sandwich made of human meat to his neighbor oh i almost threw my laptop out the window i just shut it down and had a nap at like three o'clock and set my alarm for four so i could get back up and do this because it was tough but we have found good ones though it just drove me to the brink i'm i'm quietly confident but i've shot myself in the foot now i think everyone's gonna be like they're so what if we pick the same one no that's the key thing we don't know what each other is doing i have no idea no idea so you go first hannah i think yeah i think i've drawn the short straw this year i'm pretty sure i made you go first last time so

it's only fair okay prepare for squares prepared i think everyone should get their red-handed mug, make themselves a cup of tea. I think it's compulsory that everyone should be sitting under a duvet not being able to see what the fuck is in their room right now

because that is what is... I'm really on edge because I'm in the house on my own, I'm under a duvet, I've got my back to the door, bad things are going to happen to me, I can feel it.

I mean, that is terrifying because I was going to be like, hey guys, get your cup of tea, get into bed, curl up and get ready. And you're like, no, you should be as on edge as we are right now. You should be as visually unable to assess your situation of danger as I am right now. Yeah. Okay.

So here goes nothing. In a maximum security prison in Shek Pik on Lantau Island, which is the largest of Hong Kong's islands, sits Lam Kor Wan, who is allegedly Hong Kong's first ever serial killer. Big claim. Kor Wan was born in Malaysia. And when he was a small boy, his father smacked his head into a wall so hard that he had two black eyes for weeks. So we've just foreshadowing we've got a bit of blunt force trauma already. And the abuse didn't stop when he, his mother, his father and his younger brother moved to Hong Kong. Kuo Wan struggled to make friends at school and instead

he just played loads of electric chess. Not saying that electric chess makes you a serial killer but in this case it certainly helped. Also probably getting your head smashed into a wall by your father when you're a child doesn't help. Head into the wall, not super helpful in your formative years. When Kuo Wan left school, he got a job as a taxi driver and the streets of Hong Kong after dark would become his hunting ground. He only ever stalked his prey after dark when it was raining and this earned him the press nickname the rainy night killer also why just for like atmospheric effect who is he like a fucking horror film art director absolutely zero points for originality but i did think maybe in cantonese it's some sort of like clever word play that just doesn't translate very well so maybe we let them oh yeah

i think the the name of it is probably just lost in translation. But him, why only when it was raining? Is he like some sort of wet werewolf? Like, what is it? Not when the moon is up, but when it's raining. That is an amazing press name for a serial killer. You should go into journalism. The wet werewolf.

Wow. My copywriting skills are wasted here, Hannah. So, the wet werewolf kept living with his parents For his whole adult life And he shared a room, not just a flat He shared a room with his younger brother Even as an adult And I don't really feel like I should need to point this out

But he never had a girlfriend In Hong Kong too, I think it's just very difficult to get a house there Because it's so small and everything's really built up Don't people live in like actual shoeboxes? Yeah, matchbox apartments. Yeah. Like I saw that thing. Is that like a Vice documentary about like the cage homes of Tokyo?

Yes, I saw that. Yeah, yeah. God, I actually felt sick. That's a real horror story. In the late 70s, when he was in his 20s, Corwan started to collect a vast amount of pornography. And he ordered it from the UK because he was too embarrassed to buy it over the counter. He kept his collection of British porn in a metal ammunition box under his bed and he kept it padlocked. Despite sharing a tiny room, Corwan's brother had no idea about this box or what was inside it. Corwan liked to take pictures of the pictures

in the porn magazine, like some sort of weird porno inception. So unsurprisingly, taking pictures of pictures of pictures didn't really keep him occupied for very long. So keen to satiate his sexual appetite with more pictures, Corwan bought himself a Polaroid camera and he would use it to take pictures under toilet cubicle doors in ladies' toilets. Anyone with a Polaroid camera and he would use it to take pictures under toilet cubicle doors in ladies toilets. Anyone with a Polaroid camera is a pervert. Pervert or a wanker. Hipster wanker or a pervert. Or both. Absolutely. Polaroid cameras. Why the rush? Guess what you're getting for your birthday. I'm going to have to change my idea. All right, I'm going to have to send it back. The women just trying to have a quiet wee, did not appreciate this at all.

And some of them chased Corwan down the street screaming at him. Which, too fucking right, actually. If I saw an arm coming underneath a cubicle door and taking a picture of my fanny while I was having a wee, I am chasing you down the street and yelling at you. I am. Like, you're not getting away with that. Corwan didn't like this very much. It made him feel quite scared.

Yeah, I know. Poor guy. So he realizes he can't take pictures in toilets anymore. And for a while, he managed to keep his perversions within the confines of the tiny room that he shared with his brother. But not for long. At about 4 a.m. on the 3rd of February, 1982, Chan Fung Lan was outside the Chinese Palace nightclub where she worked. She'd stayed behind after her shift to have a few drinks with her sister and a few of her mates and she was ready to go home. So she was standing outside

the nightclub waiting for a taxi to pick her up and you already know which taxi man got to her first. On the drive to her apartment, Feng Lan told Kuo Wan that he needed to pull over so he pulled into a petrol station and Phuong Lan opened the car door to throw up onto the pavement. We've all been there. Everyone has done that. Oh, I've been there when I haven't been able to open the door. And it's just... What, and just vomited into your Vivienne Westwood handbag? Yes. Thanks, Hannah. I did once on my birthday ruin a perfectly good Vivienne Westwood handbag

by throwing up into it. That's my favourite story of all time. I love it so much. I just put with Vivienne in like dry clinic for a while. She was good. Do you know what? I think Vivienne would be really proud. The actual Vivienne Westwood, she'd love that. I think she'd be on board. It's fine. I got it dry cleaned and the inside has seen better days, but no one sees the inside. That's the whole point. Vivienne's fucking rock and roll. She'd be totally fine with that. She is punk rock as fuck i fucking love her but core one did not like this at all he liked it even less when fung lan changed her mind twice about whether she wanted to go home or go back to the bar that she had come from so core one snapped he stopped the car and he

strangled fung lan with a length of electrical wire that he just casually had in his cab apparently. He drove home with the dead body in his car. He dragged Feng Lan's lifeless body into his flat past a sleeping security guard not doing his job. And also his parents and younger brother must sleep like actual dead people because he drags this dead body into their apartment and shoves it under the sofa in the living room. And he leaves it there all night, leaves it there, goes to bed. I'm just imagining like this horrible, dark cage apartment. There's just a bit like, you know, there's no natural light, which is my biggest fear. Just a bit grimy.

Too many people. And now there's a dead body under the sofa. Yeah. Just lying there. And it's raining. And it's raining. And they are totally none the wiser. What fucks me up about this so much is that his family probably sat on the sofa not knowing

that there was a dead body just lying there. Just staring out with his dead eyes. So the rest of his family woke up and went about their morning routines with no idea there was a dead body hiding under their sofa. Kuan waited for his family to leave for work. And when they had, he pulled Feng Lan's corpse out from under the sofa, dragged it to his bedroom that he had covered in plastic. And there he used an electric saw to dismember her body,

making sure to take pictures of every step of the process. And when he was done having his little picture party, he wrapped up all of the pieces of Feng Lan's body and threw them in the Xingmun River. Feng Lan was 21 years old. One week later, body parts washing up on the riverbank started to hit the news, but the body was never identified as Feng Lan and the police had absolutely no idea what to do with it.

So he'd got away with it. But it wasn't long before he was at it again. Over the next few months, Kuo Wan would pick up three more women in his taxi on rainy nights in Hong Kong. Maybe he is a wet werewolf. Maybe he only feels like killing when it's raining. That's a new one. His victims were Chan Wan Kit, who was 31,

Leung Sa Wan, who was 29, and Leung Wai Sum, who was 17. And he picked up each of these women in his taxi. He killed them with electrical wire in his car and then he drove them all back to his family home where he would hide them under the sofa until the morning. And then he would have sex with their dead bodies and cut them into little pieces with an electrical saw. Then he would take his photos and he would wrap up their body parts in rice bags and hide them in different places all over Hong Kong. And if you think that's idiotic, it's about to get a lot more idiotic. So strap in. Because remember, it's the 80s and core one was no photography whiz. He didn't have his own darkroom and he's done away with his Polaroid

camera by this point. So in order to get the photos developed of the women that he'd hacked to pieces in his room that he shared with his brother, he has to take them to a shop. So this guy is walking into Kodak with negative films full of naked dead women cut up into tiny little bits and he just expects these to get developed like nothing is wrong. And he gets away with it. Three times he does this, he gets away with it. He has one close shave when a guy at the Kodak shop

asks him some questions about these pictures of dismembered body parts and Corwan palms him off by saying that he was a lab technician and the photos were for medical research. Wow. What kind of medical research is that? That's what I want to know. The effects of an electric saw on a human body. Yeah. Wow. But Corwan was not so lucky on the 17th of August 1983 when a sharper technician at the Kodak shop noticed on what he had assumed

to just be pictures of a naked woman. Perhaps it was like a couple taking pictures of each other, getting them developed. Who knows? I was thinking about this a lot when I was researching this.

Obviously, when disposable cameras were still a thing and you had to like take your photos to Boots to get them developed or whatever, obviously, all of mine were quite innocent because I was quite young. But if you were taking photos of like sexy things, and you weren't a photographer, you had to take them to Boots and hand them to like the teenager working there who would do it, see everything and then give it back to you. Yeah, I guess it would just have to be you just use a new one every time and you never look at

that person again. So my friend Cheryl, who listens to the yeah i guess it would just have to be you just use a new one every time and you never look at that person again so my friend cheryl who listens to the show hi cheryl uh she used to be an engraver the mall in her hometown she worked on in like an engraving shop so like people would come in with stuff that they wanted engraved obviously and this one lady came in with a dog collar and cheryl's expecting this lady to be like oh can it say like fido please and this lady deadpan as anything just like straight up she was like can you get it to say lady cleo please no it was madame cleo or something like that like very like dom sure wasn't just her dog's name and she's a massive wanker no no no i maybe i fucked up cheryl right in tell me that i've got wrong. But it was something that was like very obviously a dominatrix word.

And it was like a big collar. And Cheryl just had to be like, yeah, sure, no problem. And also because Cheryl, I hope she won't mind me saying this, because she's worked with heavy metals for so long, Cheryl has no fingerprints. So she could do any bank job. Wow. Yeah.

I could do any bank job and just wear gloves though. All right. Without having to completely change my career to work with heavy metals. Okay, but maybe it would be easier for her to disappear than it would be for you. Maybe, maybe. Where was I? Something about these pictures of naked lady just didn't look right. One of the close-ups of the woman's leg showed a clear burn mark on her thigh.

So the technician knows that this is just not right and he calls the police. So what had happened is that Corwan had been taking pictures of the body he had mutilated and one of his lamps had fallen onto the victim's leg he hadn't noticed and it had left this burn mark that alerted the Kodak technician. That's what set him off. A fucking burn mark, not the fact that it's like body parts.

That's so bizarre. Yeah, I mean, I guess you must see a lot of shit though as a photograph developer maybe if he's seen this guy before and he's like oh this guy has severed limbs because he's a body part technician who knows but then because there's clear violation of the body parts happening he's like okay this is not right very very open-minded photograph developers they maybe it was a different guy i don't know so when kawan returned to collect his pictures the police were waiting for him he tried to tell the police that he was just collecting the photos for a friend but the police weren't having any of it and one officer actually said yeah right you have no friends oh what a sick burn deep fuck so the police accompanied core one to his family home obviously to the surprise of the rest of his family who were

quietly sitting around the dinner table minding their own business the police searched the house and they ordered core one to open the metal ammunition box under his bed. Inside it was his British pornography collection and something much worse. The police took out two Tupperware boxes. They were sealed with masking tape. Inside one was a severed breast and inside the other was a vagina, pickled informally. Oh, for fuck's sake. Before anyone comes for me for using the wrong genital terminology, I haven't been able to find how much female genitalia it actually was. I imagine it was probably vulva and vagina is what I think.

It gets worse. There's misogyny in the post. So hold on. So because of the hideous nature of this discovery, police thought there was no way That Cor 1 could have been acting alone So they arrested him His father and his brother

Who had no idea about any of it Can you imagine the police just showing up And be like your brother is a sexual pervert And he's murdered at least four people We think it's probably you as well Poor mum she's like what the fuck And then British forensic chemist Sheila Hamilton arrived on the scene a couple of hours later four people we think it's probably you as well poor mum she's like what the fuck and then british forensic chemist sheila hamilton arrived on the scene a couple of hours later only to be taken

off the case almost instantly because the evidence was deemed too awful to be handled by a woman don't look it's a vagina she's a forensic chemist i'm sure she can handle looking at a vagina she literally has her own one that's outrageous isn't it oh no you can't possibly look at the lady parts your lady and she flew all the way over from the uk to go there and she was i think there's quite a big british colonial presence in hong kong i think she lived there still another name that core one got himself in the press was the jar killer and i think this is another weird like mis translation thing but also the Tupperware lunchbox killer doesn't really sound as intimidating. Yeah Tupperware's not as scary as like

jars. Keeping body parts in jars is a bit more creepy isn't it? Not in a lunchbox under your bed. It's like a cart door, empty carton. Like a biscuit tin. So Corwine, his father, his brother are all taken into police custody and Corauan actually confessed the next day to everything, so his brother and father were set free. When interviewed, Kauan took the police through each step with excruciating precision. Feng Lam may not have been planned, but his second murder, Wan Kit, certainly was.

She was a bar worker as well, and she was the first of his victims that he had had sex with before he dismembered her. This was the first time he had ever had any sexual contact with another person. Lost his virginity to a dead body. Does that count? Good question. That's a very good ethical question.

I don't know. I don't know if that counts. I don't know. If you rape a dead body or like... It feels like it shouldn't count. No. It doesn't feel quite right to me. No. Let's say it doesn't count. He'd hate that. He did exactly the same thing with Leung Sai-wan, who was victim number three. And he told the police that he felt no remorse for killing these three women because women are, quote, useless to society.

So his thinking is that women's lives are worthless. They do nothing to help anyone out. So why should he feel remorse for taking lives away, especially when their deaths satisfied a male sexual agenda? And he's not on his own in thinking that, is he? His fourth and final victim was different. Waisom was just 17 and she was a student. She had the misfortune of hailing Corwan's cab after a sixth form dinner. She'd literally, she's not even finished school. She's in sixth form. She's gone out to dinner with her friends.

It was only half past nine in the evening, so much earlier than Corwan's previous killings. He usually does it about three or four o'clock in the morning, but that didn't stop him. He handcuffed Wysom in his cab and he kept her there, making her tell him everything about her life, her family, her school, everything. And when it got to four o'clock in the morning, she gets in his cab at half past nine, so this is hours, she falls asleep. And then he strangled her and took her back to his family home, had sex with her corpse, photographed her, cut her up and hid her body in the city the next day. In custody, Corwan told psychiatrist William Green that he ate a part of the intestine of one of his victims. But he never gave away which one.

Why are you eating the intestine? That's the worst bit to eat surely, it's full of poo. Awful. It's the worst bit. You've got the whole body. Cut yourself off a bit. It does seem like a weird choice. He also tried the age-old trick of trying to say that God had told him to kill all of these women but he didn't quite manage to pull it off. When Corwan faced trial, only men were allowed to serve on the jury and he was sentenced to death by hanging on the 3rd of April 1983. But he wouldn't actually receive the death penalty because it was abolished in Hong Kong in 1993. So he received a life sentence instead. Is he still alive? He's still

alive, yeah. Sitting in prison, thinking about severed boobs and intestines. Well, at least they put him in prison, unlike that Sagawa. What's his name? Oh, yeah, the Japanese cannibal, yeah. Oh, God. He's just there. Unsurprisingly, Kowal's family were unable to sell their apartment because everyone knew what had happened there. So they still live in the apartment where their son kept dead bodies under the living room sofa. Fuck off.

That is outrageous. They have hung an image of Chung Kuei above their front door. And in Chinese mythology, Chung Kuei is the protector against evil spirits and the vanquisher of ghosts. I'd need more than that to have some peace of mind to sleep in that house. What I can't get my head around is what was his brother doing? I suppose if he was a taxi driver, I suppose he's out all night and his brother's out all day so they're not really in the room at the same time but still how good at hiding things would you have to be to hide it from someone you share a room with i know but then i guess like we hear all those stories of like men who have been committing

serial crimes and the wife had no idea but then they aren't literally doing it in the bedroom that they share. I don't know. That's fucking crazy. Where was he hiding his electric saw? How was he not getting blood on the walls? That's what I don't understand. He was putting plastic down, like you said, but... But on the ceiling as well?

Like, if you're using an electric saw, there's going to be some serious sprayage from that, I think. I don't know. Maybe if you leave the body for a bit and then it all pulls and then it just seeps out maybe yeah that's good he did leave them overnight and also another thing he did was when uh when he was in prison he told the police exactly where all the bodies were and they were still there just in rice bags that no one had moved them they were all just safe just random rice bags around the city full of dead people yeah why that Why? That's so weird.

Well, he couldn't keep them in his house. Yeah, did he? Dump them in the river or in the woods or something. Why just like... I don't know. I think he quite liked knowing they were there. Oh, yeah. I bet he drove past them in his like cab. Yeah.

Stomach churning. And I almost did that as I... I'm probably saying his name all wrong. The Tokyo Cannibal. That's the only true crime documentary I haven't finished same it's horrific i was just like i just don't need to be watching this i didn't need to i didn't need to see all of that wow wow thanks for kicking us off with some fucking extreme necrophilia and vaginas in boxes box fresh mine is not quite so surreal i would say okay i'm excited though i'm excited for story i think mine

is scary because it's quite i don't know the circumstances are quite ordinary you know it's not like a serial killer or anything it's like very dark and it was really making me cringe out so hard while i was reading it i'm jake warren and in our first season of finding i set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now, exclusively on Wondery+. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey, to help someone I've never even met.

But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding, and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery

app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall, that was no protection. Claudian Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime, and there's much more to come. This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On the Media. To listen, subscribe to On the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Sean Diddy Cone. Diddy built an empire and lived a life most people only dream

about. Everybody know ain't no party like a Diddy party, so. Yeah, that's what's up. But just as quickly as his empire rose, it came crashing down. Today I'm announcing the unsealing of a three-count indictment charging Sean Combs with racketeering conspiracy, sex trafficking, interstate transportation for prostitution. I was f***ed up. I hit rock bottom, but I made no excuses. I'm disgusted. I'm so sorry. Until you're wearing an orange jumpsuit, it's not real. Now it's real.

From his meteoric rise to his shocking fall from grace, from law and crime, this is The Rise and Fall of Diddy. Listen to The Rise and Fall of Diddy exclusively with Wondery Plus. We're heading to Bowling Green, Kentucky. And there, Jamie Stice was a 21-year-old woman who lived with her mom and her stepdad. And the story I'm going to tell you today

is basically exactly the reason why you should never trust anyone, especially, especially not some total fucking random you meet off the internet who seems just like way too nice and helpful and just wants to like make your life easier. Don't trust them. They have an agenda. And also, I know that you guys love my movie recommendations, especially when I talk about extreme French cinema like The Martyrs. So anyone out there who has seen the terrifying French horror film Inside, you can already take a pretty good guess as to what is going to befall poor Jamie. Oh, I haven't seen that one.

It's pretty graphic. So Jamie was described by those who knew her as just like an amazing person. She was kind, she loved children, and she'd actually been trying to become a social worker so that she could, you know, really help those children who were in not great situations. And so when she found out that she was pregnant herself, Jamie and her family were thrilled. And Jamie, like most young women, was super active on social media, and she was incredibly excited about having her first child. So she posted endlessly on Facebook about her journey through pregnancy.

And Jamie's mum says that her daughter was just like 100% already committed to being an amazing mum. Jamie would apparently like sing to her bump, you are my sunshine, like every day. It's like not real levels of like how much she was excited about being a mother. I'm the worst person with stuff like this because I hate, I hate children. I hate them wanting to touch me with their disgusting little hands. Like I hate it, I hate it.

I was a primary school teacher for two years. I've done my time. Oh, absolutely. I used to get really weird little kid diseases. Like I kept getting ear infections and all of this, yeah, it was awful. And they are agony, like they are agony. And the doctor would be like,

what are you doing? Are you swimming? Like, and I was like, no, it's just children touching me with their disgusting poo hands awful so disgusting they are gross one of them coughed directly into my mouth once wow so in korea they don't cover their mouths when they cough because they think it's dirty to cough on your hand and then touch something so they will just cough they don't cover their mouths they just cough into the open air but leaning over this kid i didn. I didn't like him anyway. He was a little shit. Leaning over him to try and help him with something.

And he coughed and I felt it. I felt it go into my mouth. That is foul. I think that might be the worst thing we say on this entire episode. That is the worst thing. That's the worst thing I've ever heard. I just find it really difficult to be excited about children. Dogs.

Excited. Love dogs. Oh my god. If someone was like, I'm getting a puppy. I can be excited about dogs all day long. I'm coming to see it. But Jamie was excited about her baby. And she also found out the sex of the baby as soon as she could.

And she found out that she was having a little boy. And to her, this was perfect. I mean, I'm guessing it would have been perfect, whatever she was having. But she decided on a name immediately. She was going to call her little boy isaiah which means goddess salvation because she said that she wanted him to have a name that told the world exactly how important he was to her like she is like a fucking disney mum not a disney step mum a disney mum and when she was eight months pregnant jamie posted on facebook that she had

just 40 days until her due date and how excited she was to meet her little boy. And it was then that she met, say virtually met, and became friends with a 33-year-old woman named Kathy Coy. Jamie, like probably all pregnant women do, had been looking to meet other pregnant women and mums to get advice and help and, I don't know, like hang out with when everyone else doesn't want to hang out with you and yourums to get advice and help and, I don't know, like hang out with when everyone else doesn't want to hang out with you and your kid anymore. And I can't stress at this point how fucking normal Cathy Coy looked in her Facebook pictures. Because when you like actually Google her and you look at her, the first pictures I saw of her were the pictures,

like the mugshot pictures after all this goes down. And I was like, yeah, well, of course she looks fucking terrifying. Why would anybody bloody talk to her on the internet? But in her original Facebook pictures, she looks like a typical, normal, boring mum. She looks desperately, aggressively boring, if anything. But she was anything but that. Because Kathy was actually a twice-divorced mother of two teenagers who had been trying to make yet another failing relationship work. She told her husband, who was basically trying to leave her, that she was pregnant with his baby, but she wasn't.

There's obviously only so long you can write that particular lie. And Kathy was starting to get frantic that she'd be exposed when it got to nine months and there was no baby. And it later came out that she'd even been stealing sonogram pictures of women who had been posting them on Facebook and showing them to her husband as proof of her pregnancy. So basically, Kathy was getting super desperate. She sees that Jamie posted she's 40 days, you know, out from giving birth. And she reaches out to Jamie on Facebook and told her that she was related to a friend of Jamie's called Becca and that she worked

for an organization that could help Jamie get assistance on things like baby clothes being pregnant and having babies seems like just about the most expensive thing you can do in the entire world oh kids are so expensive I read that to raise a kid in london so from like baby to 18 not private school just normal school is a million pounds fuck off not even a joke that's how much it costs from zero to 18 and no i i think i read the same thing what kid's worth that not even one single one absolutely horrifying so yeah jamie was already in a situation she's 21 she lives with her parents. She was about to, like she was trying to become a social worker and then she gets pregnant. She's not like financially stable. And as far as I could tell, like her and the baby's partner weren't like

together or anything. She was excited, but she knew that this was going to be an incredibly expensive thing to embark on. But she was just so then excited that she'd now met this woman who is older than her you know she's 33 she's already had these two kids she comes across like a very responsible helpful person who also now is offering like um a support stick support stick that's not the right phrase support what's she offering her she's helping her a helping hand um Hi. A crutch. Sorry, could you point me to where the support sticks are, please? Oh, yeah, aisle six, right next to the helping hands. Oh, dear. She's offering her help.

Helping hand. So Kathy knows exactly how to play this, and she starts to groom Jamie. There's no other word for it. She's grooming her. And the two bonded over relationship problems and their pregnancy. And like I said, Kathy already had two kids. One was like 13 and one was 14. So she could easily fake chat pregnancy shit all day. Easy. And eventually, after chatting for a while, the two met and they started hanging out. Kathy

would drive to Jamie's house and hang out with her and even like met her parents and everything. And she's obviously wearing like a fake baby bump and all that. And these hangout sessions quickly went from being once every few days to every single day. Kathy even started volunteering to help Jamie's family with bills because she knew that they were struggling financially. Exactly. And Jamie, I think Jamie's 21. She's naive. She needs the help. She's vulnerable. She's pregnant. And I think she was just so shocked, like pleasantly shocked that this lovely woman wanted to help them. And this is exactly how Kathy won the family's trust. She would even do things like drive Jamie and her mom anywhere they needed to go. If Jamie

needed to go to the doctors or to go shopping or anything like that because they didn't have a car, Jamie's family. And Kathy really did come across like a total hero in this family's time of need. I mean, it's an exciting time, but it is also a difficult time because as excited as they were about the baby, they knew that it was going to add so much extra pressure to their situation, financially speaking. Then, on the 13th of April 2011, Kathy, as had become normal, gave Jamie's mum a ride so she could go apply for disability. With Kathy's mum out the way, she dropped her off, left her there, and went to go pick up Jamie, apparently to go shopping for baby's clothes. Isaiah was due in almost a month. And, you know, Jamie wants to get ready.

But that day, Kathy wasn't about to take Jamie shopping. She had a whole other plan. And, fair warning, it's about to get extremely gruesome. Oh, I hear you. Kathy drove Jamie to the woods near Kentucky Freeway and used a stun gun to subdue her. She then bound Jamie's wrists and forced her into the woods near Kentucky Freeway and used a stun gun to subdue her. She then bound Jamie's wrists and forced her into the woods. Jamie is eight and a half months pregnant. And Kathy is totally single-minded. I don't know why when I was reading this, I was expecting like some big monologue about

what she was going to do. She's not a fucking Bond villain. She wasn't like hanging around in the woods explaining what she was about to do. She literally walks Jamie in there and just slashes her throat with a drywall knife. With a what? A drywall knife. And then Kathy proceeded to cut the baby out of Jamie. She disemboweled her and cut the baby boy out of Jamie. The uterus and ovaries were still attached to the umbilical cord as she pulled him out. Oh my god. And just like that, with everything still attached to this little baby, she as she pulled him out oh my god and just like that with everything still attached to this little baby she took him straight to a friend's house she turns up at this friend's house wearing no trousers and carrying this baby with the umbilical cord uterus and ovaries still attached to him saying that she'd just given birth in her car oh so that's why she's

taking her trousers off to make it believable yeah her friend believes her because you know up until this point her friend thinks that she was pregnant so she takes her inside and they clean the baby up well like literally just wipe him down him in the sink yeah and kathy then even asks her friend to take a picture of the baby and send it to her husband oh no no i hate it i hate it yeah so then jamie was taken to the local a&e in kentucky and in some reports i read that the umbilical cord the ovaries and the uterus are still attached to him and in some reports i read that they had it in like they had the baby in them they had like the ovaries and uterus and umbilical cord in like a bucket that they took with them why so she's showing up to hospital doing like i just had this

baby and my entire reproductive system also fell out yeah why wouldn't you just cut that shit off and leave it why are you fucking taking it with you to the hospital because of course at the hospital staff were totally freaked out because surely, yeah, like you said, any woman whose entire uterus and ovaries has fallen out with her baby is not just going to be fucking walking around. So they call the police and report a suspicious birth. The police arrive and took Cathy in for questioning and eventually she changed her story and confessed to buying the baby for $550 from a stranger. What, like Charles Manson's mum tried to sell him for a pitcher of beer? Yeah, but the police don't believe her, and they held her on suspicion of murder.

The police obviously are seriously fucking concerned for the safety of the woman whose baby it really was. So they went to Cathy's house and searched for any links they could find to pregnant women that she may have known. They quickly found two women on her social media. And I have to say, like, the police did really good work in very, very quickly finding out exactly what had happened and exactly who the victim had been. They found these two women on her social media that were pregnant.

They tried to contact both of them, and they were able to get in touch with one of the women. And luckily, luckily, she was unharmed thank god how would you feel if you were that woman knowing that it literally could have been you that this happened to and the other woman they found was jamie stice but jamie was of course not fine she was still in the woods off that freeway with her body torn open lying in the mud she's not still alive no she's not the police also found a stun gun and knives at Kathy's house. They know now exactly what's happened, and they strongly suspect that it's Jamie Stice's baby.

They're desperate for answers, so they question Kathy, asking if the baby was Jamie's, but all she would say was infuriatingly, I don't know. But eventually, the next day, Kathy Coy admitted to what she'd done, and she led the police to the wooded area where Jamie's mutilated body lay face down, bound and bloody. Cathy was sentenced to life without parole in 2012, and her little baby boy somehow survived. And so now, Isaiah Alan Stice Reynolds, Jamie's little boy, lives with his

father, Matt Jones, and by all accounts seems to be doing okay, apart from the fact that he doesn't have a mum. Oh my God. It's so horrible. It's so horrible. I mean, yeah, let that sink in. That is hideous. I know. And the family really pushed for the death penalty with Cathy Coy,

but her lawyers made a good play for the fact that she was completely mentally not okay. And that's obviously no excuse, but she doesn't. She's just on life without parole. And it also came out in court that she'd like tried to get her teenage, like her two teenage kids to help her, but they'd been like, no. And they just thought she was like making some weird joke and apparently completely couldn't believe it when she actually went through and did it. It's just so unbelievable. But I think fetal abductions, while they obviously are not common, but they're not like completely unheard of.

No, I think especially with women offenders, it's very, very common. Oh, yeah. Women don't steal. Women steal babies. They steal tiny babies. The younger, the better. Because generally speaking, women steal them so they can raise them themselves. And I think that sort of that maternal drive of like desperately wanting a child makes people do horrible things sometimes. Yeah, just completely overrides anything else. And that's what it seems like. It just seems like it completely overtakes any other sort of logical thinking.

And this is the thing. I think Cathy Coy was that paired with the fear of losing another relationship and i think she was in 100 desperation mode i will do whatever it takes to have this baby and she long gamed it too she was just like she just picks her out this is why i find the whole like argument that you know she didn't know what she was doing or whatever like you know she planned this this was incredibly premeditated there was a long run-up this wasn't a crime of passion this wasn't heat in the moment she didn't just see a pregnant woman on the street and then attack her she befriended this woman groomed her and yeah like you said long game yeah that was the the horrifying case

i found there was also one more if i'm allowed to do a very very quick without notes summary of another case I found because I found this story and I was like so horrified by it but I just couldn't find enough information to make it an actual piece of this episode and I didn't actually take any notes down on it but it stuck with me so basically it's this woman called Jodine Serrin, who, you know, maybe immediately people listening will be like, oh my god, yes, that case. Do you know it? It rings a tiny bell, but just like a hand bell, not like a church bell. Good. So Jodine was a 39-year-old woman who had like some developmental delay. She was like very, very high, you know, high functioning. She was very independent, but she did have like a

slight developmental delay. And she lives in, she lived in Carlsbad, California. And eventually, you know, when she got a bit older, she moved out of her parents' house and she lived in like a little flat on her own. And while she was super independent, her parents would still come visit her every single day just to check in on her, make sure she was okay and make sure she was good, bring her things because she wasn't actually able to drive or anything like that. Then one day, as they always did, on Valentine's Day 2007, her parents went to her house as usual and they tried to open the door, but they couldn't. They even had a key. They tried to open and get in. Nothing. And they actually hadn't heard from Jodine for a couple of days, which was really, really unusual for her. The door was locked from the inside and it had a latch on so they couldn't get in. So her dad freaks out and just fucking

breaks this door down and he's like something's not right. They go into the house and it's completely quiet. So they go from room to room and they go into her bedroom and when they go in there they find her on the bed and there's a man on top of her having sex with her. So they're obviously like oh my god her dad is like so embarrassed and he just like walks out and he says to the guy like get dressed like because his immediate thoughts is jodine hadn't been in relationships before they'd never told her about a guy they think what if this guy is taking advantage of her so they're obviously embarrassed they they go into the living room they tell him to like get dressed and come outside so sat in the living room and they're waiting, expecting like an embarrassed guy and Jodine

to like walk into the living room. But after a few minutes, nobody comes into the living room. So the dad goes back into the bedroom and the man's gone. And he goes over to Jodine and she's dead. What? Yeah, but it gets worse.

Because when he touched her, she was ice cold. She'd been dead, it turned out, later for at least a day and a half. That guy had been in the house having sex with Jodine's dead body after having killed her, probably two days ago. Oh my God, I feel sick. How she died was like she'd been bludgeoned and then strangled to death. And what's really terrifying about it is like they've never found the guy who did this, but they obviously found loads of DNA at the scene. And the get-back DNA, they tested it against the suspects they had.

They tested it against a couple of Jodine's friends, but it wasn't a match to anybody. And in 2017, they used that DNA to... Have you heard of that new DNA stuff that you can run the DNA and it gives you like a face of what that person might look like? That's the next step in DNA technology is literally using your DNA to come up with a face. Oh my life. So they did that and they now have a face of the man that they think did this. A body type, height, everything.

They don't know who he is. But they don't know who it is. No. And there were never any other suspects apart from that one friend who the dad kind of thought that the man he'd briefly seen in there looked like but they tested his DNA and it wasn't him.

Is that man still out there? Still out there with his DNA face. Isn't that the most fucking horrifying thing? Oh my god I hate that. Oh and that guy like when they went back in

and the bedroom was empty apart from Jodine's dead body he'd just run out the back door and they'd not realised they'd literally walked in on the guy who killed her having sex with her dead body. is an embarrassing situation though that's probably

up there in the top three most embarrassing things that can happen to you your parents walking in when you're having sex number one most embarrassing thing is walking in and your parents having sex i think that's more embarrassing as long as you're both alive and they're both alive that's true yeah yeah slightly less worse but yeah that was a horrifying case I found. I can't deal... Fuck, so they could run a piece of my hair and construct my face? Yeah, they're starting to kind of like build that technology. I don't think it's like widely available yet, but... That's a game changer.

Incredibly, incredibly expensive. Yeah, of course. But it's the next step. Genius, right? But also horrifying. And terrifying. I feel like most advances in technology are terrifying. Just don't kill anybody and leave your DNA there. Do whatever you want. Just don't

get caught. You heard it here first. If you're terrified. I also think because this was so difficult to find like scary stories to really talk about that terrified us. I really want, like I've seen other podcasts being like, send us your scary stories. And I'm like, no, that's so like easy. But I kind of want to know. Okay, you're not. I think you should send us your scary stories. But you're not allowed to send us scary stories that like you've just found on the internet.

How about if we say it has to have happened to you? Yeah, that's a good one. Send them to theredrealmclub at gmail.com. And then I'm going to read them. And then the ones that really scare me and Hannah will read them out out or something in like a bonus episode because i think that'll be fun that's halloween that's halloween part one halloween part one we still have halloween part two to go also if you're listening to this on the day of release which is wednesday slash thursday depending on if you're a patreon person or not we are going to romania we're going

to transylvania baby in like two like two days, which is amazing. I'm so underprepared. What is even the weather? I don't know. It's cold. I think it's cold. I need to go to Chicago first tomorrow slash if you're listening, I'm on my way back, which I also don't know what the weather there is, but I'm going to go to a Halloween parade

there, which will be fun. Oh, that's fun. Yeah, I'm excited about that. But then I'm more excited about Romania. It's going to be fucking awesome. I can't wait. And if you don't follow us on social media. Now is the time.

You should follow us today because we want to like post loads of shit in Romania about us being there. Serious content. And even like recently, like what was it, like a week ago I posted a picture of us and people were like, oh, I've never seen you guys before. I'm like, haven't you? Yeah, the people would be like, oh, you look nothing like I thought you would I'm sorry this is my face it kind of made me think what did you think we were gonna look like send in pictures of what you thought we looked like actually no don't because it might give me a complex no don't do that don't do that but if you would like to know what we look like and what we're gonna look like when we're running

around Romania yeah you should definitely follow us on social media, at Red Handed on Instagram and on Twitter. And come join the Facebook group as well if you fancy doing that. I feel like there was something else. Oh, also, if you're listening on Thursday, it's my birthday on Monday when we're in Romania. 29th of October. Didn't quite make it as a Halloween baby. Not quite.

But almost, almost a Halloween baby, which is very sad for me. But anyway, what else do we need to say? I think that's it. Just follow us on at Red Handed the Pod on all of the things and get ready for Romania. Absolutely. And Halloween part two for when we're back. So we'll see you next week. Bye. You don't believe in ghosts?

I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either until I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness. And inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons,

and more. Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever

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