RedHanded - Episode 74 - Tracie Andrews: The Road Rage Killer

Episode Date: December 13, 2018

On Dec 1 1996, Tracie Andrews and her fiancé Lee Harvey were driving home from an evening at the pub when they got caught up in a cat and mouse game with a couple of maniacs in another car. The road rage turned into a brutal attack and Lee Harvey died after being stabbed over 40 times; and despite also being attacked Tracie survived.  At least this was the story that Tracie told police, the press and anyone who would listen. But it turned out that this hadn't been a random stranger attack at all, Tracie Andrews had killed her fiancé in cold blood. And the more she cried on TV, the more suspicious the nation became... Final 15 tickets for second live show will be released at 10am on 13/12/18 https://vaultfestival.com/whats-on/redhanded-live/?spektrix_bounce=true   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everyone.

Before we get going this week, thank you very much because we sold out our live show in two hours. So the lovely people at Vault Festival have given us another show. So if you missed out on tickets the first time around, you can get them now. They're on sale and the show is, when is it? The show is on the 26th of January, which is a Saturday, and we are doing the matinee show, which is exciting for people that maybe, you know, you don't live in London, you want to come down, it's at 4.30 in the afternoon. It's only an hour, so you can safely get back home.

Safely, like something terrible's going to happen to you. You can get back home, reasonable time. Or you could just stay and get drunk with us, you know, whatever. But since they went on sale, we're recording on Sunday night, There are only now 20 tickets left for the second show. So if you want one, grab one. We'd love to see you there. See you there. I'm Saruti. I'm Hannah. And welcome to Red Handed.

In December 1996, Lee Harvey, a 25-year-old man, was brutally murdered after an incident of road rage on a quiet country lane in Alvchurch, Worcestershire, just south of Birmingham. That night when Lee had been attacked, he hadn't been alone. His fiancée, 28-year-old Tracey Andrews, had been with him. Tracey claimed that they had been chased in a cat-and-mouse game by a stranger in another car, and eventually the pursuit had culminated in a violent confrontation, during which Lee Harvey was stabbed over 40 times. When this murder happened, it was front page news for months,

especially because the idea of road rage was relatively new in the UK. The thought that people could just lose it and kill another person over some perceived slight on the roads was pretty unbelievable to most people. But as crazy as it was for people to get their heads around, it was also increasingly in the public eye, as there had actually been a sharp rise of the phenomenon during the 90s here in the UK. I don't think I've ever seen an instance of road rage. Not properly. Yes, actually, when I'm like, actually, more when I've not been in this country. Like in Asia, you see a lot of road rage. There's a lot of road rage. Yeah, there's plenty of that. Everyone just loves beeping their horns.

Everyone loves yelling at each other. People love getting out and fighting. When I go to India, I'm like, fucking hell, can we just, can we just take it down a notch? I read that here you only ever beep your horn if someone's done something wrong. Whereas in other countries, it's more to do with like making people aware that you're there. Yeah, yeah. And like frustration, making people aware you're there just because you like hearing loud noises. And it makes you feel big. I don't know.

I don't drive, so I have no idea. Yeah, I'm not really a... The only time I've ever, ever got out of my car to speak to someone is someone went into the back of me at a roundabout in Watford. Oh, bummer. So I did pull in to speak to him. It was fine, he just cracked a light. And it was a really old car, so it wasn't important.

He was driving like a school minivan. So I was like, if I report this, you're probably going to lose your job. So just please don't worry about it on my 15-year-old KA. Very responsible of you, Hannah. ka very responsible of you hannah very socially responsible of you i felt very socially responsible that day no i have to say you were quite brimming with road rage when we were driving around romania that is so wildly unfair are you serious what road rage just stress said to me last week how are you gonna look me in the face and lie to me like that that you weren't filled to the brim with road rage i was not she fucking was it was a

stressful situation no i agree it was a stretch was it was a very stressful situation it was i'm laughing but it was so fucking stressful there were at least two times when I thought we were going to die. Oh, yeah. And you know exactly what those two times were. Yeah. Anyway, moving on. So just seven months before Lee Harvey's murder, there had been a notorious case of road rage in which a 21-year-old man called Stephen Cameron had been stabbed to death on the M25 NIS Swanley in Kent.

The killer was Kenneth Noy, a lifelong career criminal who was actually out on licence when he killed Stephen. So suddenly there's this fear that you could just piss off the wrong person by cutting them off or something else and end up getting stabbed to death on the side of the road somewhere. Definitely. So when the survivor of this incident of supposed alleged road rage, Tracey Andrews, claimed that this was just exactly that, repeating itself. You know, like you said, the Kenneth Noy case had just happened seven months ago. There was no reason for people not to believe her. And this snowballed into a huge national story. Not least, I think, because here, in this case, you had this young

couple. Lee was attractive, and I guess so was Tracy. She was a glamour model, and I think we all know how much the media would have loved that. But whatever story Tracy was telling, the cover wouldn't last long. The media's obsession with the case and Tracy's arrogance would soon reveal that this was no random attack at all. Tracy Andrews had killed her fiancé Lee Harvey. But before we find ourselves on that quiet road just outside Alf Church on that night in December 1996, let's go back to the beginning. Tracy and Lee, who was a bus driver from King's Norton, had met at a nightclub called Baker's in

Birmingham in October 1994. Now I actually went to uni in Birmingham and I spent many a night out there in their very interesting nightlife scene. And I also spent four years of uni working in a bar in Birmingham. So I thought, wouldn't it be funny if I'd have like once been drunk in Baker's or even worked in Baker's because there's definitely no bar in Birmingham called Baker's anymore. But no, because I thought maybe they just like renamed themselves. But no, Baker's apparently closed closed down got knocked down and it's just a car park now which is quite sad i don't know why but i really can't picture you working in a bar oh really no i did i worked in a bar for almost four years i just can't i don't know why i just can't can't picture it no i worked in a quote-unquote glamour bar in Birmingham. I know. Did you have to wear a bikini and walk

around? No, thankfully not. I used to go out there. I was just out there one night and then the guy was like, would you want to work here? I was like, yeah, definitely. I'm a broke student. And he was like, great. Come in on Saturday and wear something black and slutty. Oh my God. And did you? No, I just wore something black, which is basically my entire wardrobe. Maybe a little bit slutty. Weird. I know, so weird.

Great tips though. I bet. Anyway. Oh, well, you do what you have to, right? When you're a student. I never had to wear a slutty dress to work in a bar though. Did not work in those kind of establishments. I'm pretty sure that bar was run by like the Albanian mafia. I'm almost 100% sure. There's quite a lot of Albanian organized crime stuff around where I live. Don't know what the point of that sentence was. Just keep going. So however grim Baker's was, it certainly wasn't staffed by Cerrutis in slutty dresses.

Or maybe it was, who knows? For Lee and Tracy, it was love at first sight. Tracy was glamorous and confident, and Lee was besotted with her. He told his friends that she was the best sex he'd ever had. And why do people insist on sharing that kind of detail? I don't get it. I don't know. And actually, in some of the documentaries you watch, his sister and his mum even say that. What? That's

not cool. I know. It's weird, isn't it? That makes me really uncomfortable. But apparently he was just so obsessed with how great their sex was, he was telling everybody. I always think that's a sign you're probably not having good sex if you're telling everyone that you are. Oh. Oh. Plot twist. Plot twist. A double bluff. So at first, everything seemed pretty great. The couple had a lot in common. They both had young daughters from previous relationships. And this was great for Lee. Everyone said, while he was a bit of a lad, he was a real family man. It seemed to work. They seemed to fit each other, but not for long. Tracy had a temper. Previous partners of Tracy's, her friends and even her family said that she could be easily

provoked and that her temper was, quote, intense. The main source of her provocation was jealousy. She could get very jealous very quickly. The pair, for example, would go on nights out and Tracy would get angry if she thought Lee was even looking at another woman. But it wouldn't be fair to say, at this point at least, that this was all just Tracy. Lee was also super jealous when Tracy went out. They were both obsessed with each other. And whilst everyone said that they were in love, there was seemingly a dangerous level of instability,

which definitely made their relationship, I think, toxic. And it only got worse. They were constantly arguing. And if it wasn't about strangers in nightclubs, they were both intensely jealous of the other's relationships with their ex-partners. So the people that they had their daughters with. It just seems like there was absolutely no trust in this relationship. And they started to break up and make up on a regular basis. They'd have a blaring row, break up. Lee would move back to his mum's.

Then the next month, they'd have made up again. And he'd move back in with Tracy. When his friends and family, who had to watch the constant breakups, would ask him why he kept going back, he'd say that he loved Tracy and he couldn't stand the idea of her being with another man. But needless to say, everyone else in their lives recognised it for what it was. And no one seems to have really been on board with the relationship. And I think in some effort to fix their dysfunctional relationship the couple got

engaged in October 1995. I really think that they thought this was going to solve all of their problems. So many I just think so many people do that they think I know we'll get married. Oh we'll have a baby. And then everything yeah and then everything will be fine. No I don't know I'm not married I'm not even in a relationship but I'm going to guess that that's not the right thing to do. But Lee seemed pretty sure of this because he told his mates I've never been more sure of anything because if we're married we won't feel as jealous but I don't think that that's how that really works no I think you're right I don't think that's how that works you've got to solve the underlying problems you can't just put a new coat of paint on them absolutely and I also think it's like sure

they argue about jealousy, but like, if you get married, and even if that goes away, it will just be something else. Although I don't believe it will go away. Like what if you're married, she's somehow like chained to your leg, you how are you going to trust her more just because she's got a ring on her finger. And again, I have to say like, he was so young, he was 25. And of course, as we suspected, it didn't fix anything, even after they got engaged, because Tracy definitely had serious anger issues, and by most accounts, an incredibly histrionic personality. An example of her rage came soon after her and Lee's engagement. Lee's sister Michelle just so happened to get engaged at the same time, and announced it to the family at a gathering at

Lee's house on the same day, and Tracy totally fucking lost it. She was furious. Remember, all that's happened is that Lee's sister got engaged around the same time she did. She loses it. She's screaming at Lee at his fucking like parents' house when all of his family are there saying, no one's going to give a toss about us anymore. And it led to an obvious, enormous argument. Tracy was convinced that Lee's mum had put his sister up to it. And by up to it, I mean put her up to getting engaged at the same time as her so that her engagement would be ruined. I would be annoyed, though.

Be annoyed, but I wouldn't fucking yell at him in front of everybody. I'd just be like, I just think that she was a bit of a dick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I think her reaction is disproportionate. However, I do understand being totally annoyed. It's like when people propose to their girlfriends at someone else's wedding.

But this is what I mean by having like this kind of over the top personality where she can't really seem to control her rage. She's very unstable because yes, the natural reaction would be, I'm not super thrilled with this, the fact that you have announced your engagement on the same day we were planning to. But, like you said, her reaction is completely out of bounds with the actual situation that has occurred. And Tracy, she went even further.

She told Lee that he was absolutely 100% not allowed to go to his sister's wedding. And he didn't. Obviously, incidents like this, which were hugely public, had everyone questioning the engagement. Lee's mum, Maureen, hated Tracy and begged her son to call it off. But the answer from both Tracy and Lee would always be the same. We're both as bad as each other. Can't live with each other and can't live without each

other so they're just glorifying their toxic relationship really it's all so difficult because they were so passionate it's like oh it's just because i love him so much that's my it's because i care so much that's why i get so angry which is pretty dangerous language i think and it's not even it's because i care so much i get like this it's also it's because he cares so much about me that's why he gets so yeah possessive and so impassioned with me when we argue it's like i don't want to generalize but i'm like that is dangerous thinking i agree with you that is dangerous thinking and it's kind of like they think that their connection that they have is like no other and if they argued and were filled with jealous rage,

it was just because they were so intensely in love and it was all that passion. And this isn't about victim blaming either. We aren't saying that Lee was stupid to think this. I'm pretty sure that everyone everywhere always thinks this about their current relationship. But there's no denying, Tracy and Lee were in a toxic relationship that was fueled by anger, jealousy, and insecurity. And it just continued to escalate. In June 1996,

Tracy told Lee that she was pregnant and Lee was thrilled. But just a few weeks later, Tracy told Lee that she'd fallen down some steps while she was shopping and lost the baby. Lee was devastated. But then again, a few months later, things got even worse because it came out that Tracy had actually had an abortion and lied to Lee about the miscarriage. They got into another fight and it was so bad that neighbors called the police. Not that this was something new because during their many screaming matches, the police had been called to their house on many, many, many occasions. And the reports always indicate that both of them had been violent with each other. And it wasn't just the calls to the house over domestic disputes. The pair had notoriously public fights. There was an incident later that year in October 1996,

back at Baker's nightclub where the pair had met. That particular night, Tracy told Lee that he wasn't allowed to go to Baker's that night. It was her night there with her girlfriends and he was to stay away. But he turned up anyway. When she saw him there, talking to a barmaid, she just completely lost it. She started attacking him in the club, in front of everyone. She even threw herself at him and bit him on the neck. The barmaid who helped Lee afterwards said it looked like he'd been attacked by a dog. And after this attack, Maureen, Lee's mum, told him, you've got to get rid of her. But Lee didn't. Tracy apologised, swore it would be different and told him that she loved him and he stayed.

On Sunday, the 1st of December 1996, the couple went out for a drink at the Marlbrook pub in Bromsgrove, about a 15-minute drive away from Alverchurch and Tracey's flat. According to witnesses, the pair left at around half past ten in the evening and they were headed to Tracey's house. At about 10.45pm, Tracey was heard screaming on a dark country road by the occupants of a cottage in the quiet spot. She was screaming, why me? And Lee talked to me. Richard Main, the man who lived in the cottage, ran out to see what was happening and found Tracy sat in the road, covered in blood, screaming and crying. As he ran over, he saw Lee's body and Tracy just kept screaming. I told him not to get out of the car.

The police were called and Tracy was taken to Alexandra Hospital in Redditch at around 11.45pm. Lee Harvey was already dead. Detective Superintendent Brian Russell with West Mercia Police was to head up the investigation. And to start with, all he was going to have to go on was Tracy Andrews' story. So at 1am, once she was released from hospital, Tracy was taken to Redditch Police Station in Birmingham to be interviewed by Detective Russell. She gave an unexpectedly clear story.

She told Brian Russell, car. So we turned onto Cooper's Hill and the other car, a black Sierra, followed us. Then Lee said that he'd had enough and he got out of the car. The other driver got out too. I begged Lee to get back into the car. The other driver was young, 18 or 19 with short dark hair. I kept shouting at Lee to get back in the car but he wouldn't listen. Then the passenger in the black Sierra also got out of the car. He was older and fatter with big staring eyes and he was yelling at lee calling him a quote packy bastard now i didn't know i tried to figure this out i can't tell but i think that lee was mixed race he's definitely doesn't look like totally white so apparently now it's also like a racially motivated thing.

She said that the driver was telling the passenger to get back in the car and stop it. But the man took out a knife and attacked Lee. Tracy said at that point she got out too and ran over, but the big fat starey-eyed passenger punched her in the face and she fell to the floor. After the attack, the passenger got back in their car and sped off. Tracy said that after the men had left,

she was able to get up and crawl over to Lee. She said that's when she started screaming. Detective Brian Russell said it was an interesting interview because he didn't have to ask many questions at all. Tracy just started talking. She was very clear in telling him what had happened, how it had happened, where it had happened, and when it had happened. She had covered every detail,

but at that point, Brian and the police said that they believed her. It wasn't something that couldn't have happened. At 3.20 that morning, Lee's family were told that there had been an incident of road rage and that their son had been stabbed to death. Michelle, Lee's sister, said she knew straight away that it was Tracy. But Maureen, Lee's mum, calmed her down, saying, no, Tracy was attacked too. It wasn't her.

So the story was that this was the work of a random attacker, a case of maybe racially motivated road rage, and Tracy was lucky to have survived. So on Tuesday, December 3rd, 1996, West Mercia Police held a press conference. Lee's parents, Maureen and Ray, didn't originally want to do it, but Tracy was keen to speak, and the police convinced Lee's parents to join her in appealing to the public for witnesses as to what had happened that night. The press were

absolutely dying to hear from Tracy. They had spent the last few days plastering their papers with photos of her during her glamour model days and now they were going to get to hear the story of what happened that night straight from the horse's mouth. It was front page news. When Tracy walked out onto the stage for the press briefing everyone was taking photos and I think what they were excited about is the juxtaposition they could lay out in the morning papers. Photos of Tracy with a full face of makeup, next to photos of her with a bruised face and red eyes. And this press appeal becomes very important in this case. Even the police had no idea how important it would become. As soon as the cameras started, it was clear she had everyone's attention and Tracy couldn't stop talking. Once again, like she had done in her first interview, Tracy, completely

unprompted, needing few questions, started reciting her story. And that's what it feels like. It feels like a recitation of a very rehearsed story. It's essentially a monologue. When you watch it, it's exactly like that. She just starts talking and talking and talking and talking. But the problem was that the account that she was now giving to the press didn't match what she had originally told the police. And the press picked up on it straight away because obviously the police had briefed the media before Tracy and Lee's parents were brought on. So there was a lot of confusion in the room. The main mismatch was with regards to the timings from the night that Lee was killed. The reporter spotted the inaccuracy and questioned Tracy. But

instead of backtracking and saying maybe, you know, that she was confused, she just became like super defensive and almost angry at being questioned. And the police watching this unfold were shocked. But then she took it even further. Because you can tell that she grows in confidence during the press conference. It's like she starts thinking, this is great. I can say whatever. I have this captive audience. And you can almost even see it in her demeanor when she's talking. And she starts to say things about the driver that she'd previously not said, that also make no sense. She says like, appealing directly to the make-believe driver of the make-believe black Sierra. You walked off. You had nothing to do with this. You won't get in any trouble at all. Just come forward.

This is a very odd statement, no? You can't be like, you won't get in any trouble to a murderer. That seems very strange. But then it's not the driver that did the murdering. It was the passenger. She's saying you walked away. You were telling him not to do it. But he did it. You won't get in any trouble and it's also weird because she said that the car was chasing them aggressively quote playing a cat and mouse game with them surely the driver was the one responsible for that so how is he not to blame yeah it's weird

and this is no clever ploy by police to lure this man out. They were horrified. And the police actually had to step in and stop Tracy talking, saying, we don't need to give all of the details now. She's chatting all of this shit and she's just lying her ass off. And all the while, Maureen, Lee's mum, is sat next to her holding her hand. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall,

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wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. The police would later say that when they put Tracy up in front of the cameras, they didn't suspect her yet. They hadn't done it deliberately, but they were amazed when they realised that she was lying. Personally, I watched this press conference and to be honest with you, I would have believed her. I understand why the police were fooled. She's a very, very good actor. Maybe like with her glamour modelling power, she was just used to being in front of the cameras. I don't know, but she never really looks scared or nervous. She always looks quite confident when she's up there. But there are multiple documentaries out there about this case.

And in one particular one that came out last year, forensic psychologist Kerry Danes reviewed the footage of the now infamous press conference and tore Tracy apart. She said she would give Tracy an Oscar for her performance because she came out and was the epitome of a woman who was battered and broken. Body language expert Cliff Lansley, who used to train staff for the US Homeland Security, said that Tracy gave away six separate signs of deception in one short sentence during the press conference when she said, quote, I just tried to stop the bleeding, really. According to Cliff, the deceptive signs were that she used the word really rather than simply saying, I tried to stop the bleeding.

She also slightly shrugged her shoulders, dropped the volume of her voice, swallowed hard, paused and raised the pitch of her voice again. Lansley explains that by qualifying her statement with the word really, she's made it much less believable. And Lansley was convinced that Tracy didn't try to stop the bleeding because she had showed all six indicators of deception within about four seconds. He also noted that Tracy gives a slight single shoulder shrug while speaking. And this is apparently usually involuntary and can be a telltale sign that you're lying because it almost shows that you're contradicting with your body

what you're saying with your mouth and undermining yourself. Now, however arrogant and self-assured Tracy came across at the press conference, she started to spiral. And on Wednesday, December 4th, so just the day after the press conference, Detective Superintendent Brian Russell went to see Tracy at her flat. But when he arrived, he found Tracy unconscious in bed. She had taken an overdose. It really reminds me of Catherine Knight, the case we covered in episode 31. After she killed her partner, John Price, she took a massive overdose, got into bed. And I don't know, either for attention or genuinely to kill herself. I don't know. But Tracy was rushed to Alexandra Hospital again. And while she was

recovering, the police had a breakthrough that came out of the TV appeal. According to Tracy's story, her and Lee had been in their white Ford Escort driving home from the pub. And when they had taken the junction onto Cooper's Hill, the car that was chasing them, the Black Sierra, had followed them. And that was when the attack had happened. But now the police had two witnesses come forward. And this is a real turning point. Chartered accountants Elaine Carruthers and Simon Baker were travelling in the opposite direction, but had seen Tracy and Lee in their Ford Escort that night. Simon said that they were having a massive argument. And in fact, they had been so absorbed in arguing that the driver, Lee,

overshot the junction to get onto Cooper's Hill. Simon said that as he drove off, he saw in his rearview mirror, Lee reversing back down the road to get back to the junction and drive up onto Cooper's Hill. And Simon Baker was very clear that there was no other car on that road that night, and definitely not one chasing the Ford Escort like Tracy had claimed. Because after they drove past the Ford Escort, they then drove for about five miles along the same route that Tracy said she and Lee had driven.

And they saw nothing. The Belize were confused. This was crucial evidence and it totally destroyed Tracy's road rage on Cooper's Hill story. On Saturday the 7th of December, Tracy was arrested in hospital for the murder of Lee Harvey. No one could come to terms with it. Both families were totally shocked. She was eventually released from hospital on Thursday the 19th of December and she was taken straight to Redditch Police Station to be questioned. The police asked Tracy about the witness evidence and all the holes in her story

and she went quiet. Brian Russell said that he thought she was going to confess there and then. But no, she asked to speak to her lawyer, Tim Robinson, who is a very interesting man to say the least. He's so, like, flamboyant and when you look at him, he just looks like he's come from the past. And he really reminds me of that horrible man, Jacob Rees-Mogg. You know, Jacob Rees-Mogg claims that his first language is Latin.

Oh, my God. He's such a wanker. It's like he's not real. It's like he's a caricature of, like, he's like a Tory made in a test tube. He's so... A test tube Tory. That a tori made in a test tube he's so a test tube tori that's amazing he is a test tube tori he's disgusting he's a vile horrible little troll of a man i do think his supporters calling themselves mogmentum though is very funny i think that's a good joke i'm not giving it to them i can't have it fuck off so tracy calls in her horrible Jacob Rees-Mogg lookalike lawyer, and they have

a conversation for like 45 minutes. And after that, Tracy said that she had nothing new to say. She stood, quote, by her absolute denial. And if you're thinking, well, that just seems like she got sensible legal advice. Yes, you'd be right. But Tim Robinson is so much more extra than just that. He lifted the reporting restrictions at the first magistrate's hearing. This is really unusual. People never do this because this meant that every detail of the court case from that first hearing could be reported. And they published everything that they had to the press.

They even went looking for their own witnesses. Tim and Tracy even did their own TV press conferences and the police would turn up uninvited to these press conferences. Defence press conferences are really, really unusual. Like, this just doesn't happen for, like, the defence council to go on the proactive attack like this and start throwing press conferences. They normally keep things close to their chest. They also released their own e-fit. And guess what? It looked exactly like Detective Superintendent Brian Russell.

It genuinely does. Apparently, even Brian's mother-in-law said it looked like him. Yeah, she like called him at the police station and was like, this e-fit looks like you. But whilst Tim and Tracy were on their own investigation jaunt, so were the police. Detectives found out all about Tracy and Lee's volatile relationship. And they spoke to Andrew Tilston, Tracy's ex-boyfriend and the father of her seven-year-old daughter, Carla. And he told the police that Tracy had once threatened him with a knife. Andrew had even told Lee, never turn your back on Tracy during an argument. And as the result of forensic tests came back, this began to make the situation even more serious for Tracy.

Remember that Tracy had said at the time Lee was stabbed, she had been sitting in his car. But that's not what the blood spatter showed. The pattern of blood on her clothing suggested that she had been close to Lee while blood from his carotid artery and his jugular had spurted out. Her clothes from that night were covered in arterial spray. And there was more. The location of much of the blood was at the rear of the car and this didn't align with Tracy's version in which the fight had taken place at the side and in the front of Lee's car. And there was more because a bunch of Tracy's hairs between about 80 to 100 all pulled out at the root were found near the body and there were three more stuck

between Lee's thumb and forefinger. It looks like a struggle. The police also struck gold with yet another witness. Remember the cottage Tracy and Lee were found outside? Well, a nine-year-old girl also lived there, and she heard shouting outside her window that night. She confirmed that it had been an argument, but said that she could only hear two voices, and one of them was soft like a woman's. So that's quite different from what Tracy is saying,

that there's three men yelling, one of them getting stabbed, and her just in the background getting punched in the face. But the big question was for the police, where was the murder weapon? Because they found bits of a Swiss army knife near the body, but nothing solid. Until that is, they found a bloodstained mark matching Lee's DNA profile on the inside of one of Tracy's snake skin ankle boots. And the mark was about the size of Tracy Andrews started at Birmingham Crown Court. And David Krigman, the lead prosecutor, was like a bulldog. He told the jury that there was no doubt Tracy had killed Lee. He painted the narrative that the two of them had had some sort of row that night.

Either another jealousy thing, or maybe Lee was finally trying to end it because something caused Tracy to explode that night. And during cross-examination, over three days, piece by piece, Krigman tore Tracy's story apart. To the point that arrogant, self-assured Tracy, who started the trial like she'd started her police interviews and press conferences with her rehearsed story. But pretty soon, she was reduced by Krigman to just saying, I don't remember. Tracy wasn't as smart as she thought she was. I really think she thought she was going to be able to lie her way out of it. I definitely do think so.

I think she just thought, like she'd done with the police interview, the press conference, probably all her life. I'll just go up there. I've got my story. I can just tell them this and they'll believe me. I really, really think she thought she could do that. She's so arrogant. They did believe her at the beginning. I think that's the reason it all sort of goes on as long as it does. Because initially she does think she's got away with it. Definitely. I think like up until the part where she's being dragged back in and being arrested,

her confidence was just growing and growing and growing. Because, yeah, I think she thought, I've done this, I've committed the perfect murder. But she hadn't. Because finally, on the 29th of July 1997, Tracey was found guilty of the murder of Lee Harvey. She got life to serve at least 14 years. Tracey appealed the sentence, claiming that she was a victim of a miscarriage of justice because of damaging publicity surrounding her case. But in October 1998, the appeal was denied. And at last, finally, in April 1999, I think realizing that she would never stand any chance for parole without doing so, Tracy admitted that she did in fact stab Lee to death, and that there was no driver

and passenger chasing them who had stabbed him in a fit of road rage but now she said she had done it in self-defense. She wrote a letter saying they had been arguing so she got out of the car but he followed her screaming at her. She said that they then got into a fight about the car keys at which point Lee grabbed her and pulled a knife out threatening her quote saying see how you like a messed up face. She said that she was terrified, but she managed to knock the knife out of Lee's hands and grab it. Her story continues that once she got the knife, she saw Red and just started stabbing him. She said once Red mislifted, she felt sick and wished that she could turn back time. But the thing is, the timings from that night suggest that there was an absolute

minimum of seven minutes after the attack and before Tracy yelled for help. Is that how long it took for this red mist to lift? Seven minutes is a fucking long time. I think this is such an obvious last-ditched attempt to get a reduced sentence. I just have so little time for it. I'm finding it really hard to like think about what her reasoning might be

because I'm like this is just so obviously not true. This is just so not true. The thing is the Swiss army knife was Lee's. He always kept it in the car and Tracy would have known that. Seems like everyone knew it was common knowledge and there was no evidence at all that Lee had had the knife and was attacking her. but honestly she's lied so much like I just find it so hard to even try and believe this is the thing it's like there's no proof there's no evidence to suggest that he had the knife and that he was threatening her like you said everyone knew that he kept it in the car she's angry at him I think he probably maybe was trying to break up with her she gets so angry she takes the knife she knows where it is because all of the evidence seems to suggest that she didn't get out of the car and walk off she was

got out of the car and it seems that they met at the back of the car which is where the attack happened and also the way he sustained the attack the like stab wounds that he had most of them were in his neck and in his back like he had been stabbed from behind. So how is he attacking you if you're stabbing him from behind? Yeah, exactly. And the arterial spray as well suggests that she's in quite close quarters with him. Exactly. She's right up close and personal. And in her story, she says, I was in the car when he was stabbed.

No, the arterial spray proves that she's right next to him. And the fact that the stab wounds are in the back of his neck and in his back proves that it's almost like he was walking away from her when she attacked him. I think the sad thing with this is kind of like with the Catherine Knight case where I think all the while, Lee was in danger in this relationship. I know that he was also not the perfect person in a relationship, but I think he was always in danger but I think he just never looked at Tracy and saw her as a real threat as someone who could kill him and I think that's exactly what happened. So where is she now? Tracy was actually released in July of 2011

after serving 14 years in prison. Since then she's changed her name, had facial surgery. I think it's because she had quite a big like underbite didn't she and she's had that surgically corrected I think yeah and there's lots of uproar in the daily mail about it she's like has 5,000 pounds worth of facial surgery on the NHS I'm like and they're like saying it's to change her appearance but it's like she doesn't look that different she just looks like her underbite has been corrected a little bit. And it's quite a serious one. She's also dyed her hair black and she's even found love again. In August last year, 2017, she got married to a 56-year-old divorcee named Phil Goldsworthy.

They met in a pub and apparently are very much in love. And not to be all Daily Mail about it, but this is just unbelievable. For her hen do, she dressed up as a sexy policewoman. That's unbelievable. The only thing that would be worse is if she dressed up as a sexy prison warden. I feel like she's trolling people. She must be, because if you're a convicted murderer, I don't really feel like you should be impersonating police officers.

Impersonating police officers. no matter how sluttily that's it any woman or any man dressed up now as a sexy police officer on a night out arrest them they are impersonating police officers well technically they are no of course they're not i don't know what i'm saying final final thoughts on tracy andrews apart from her being a piece of shit um i think she quite obviously has an anger problem and sometimes that ends in people killing people i think i really think that anger disorders shouldn't be taken lightly because they especially in women they can be really really dangerous oh yeah especially and this is the thing i think like i said i think that no one perceived her as being a real threat and that's sad because she clearly was a real threat it's really tragic it's really tragic it's a really sad story and

you know she just she just fucking ruined a load of people's lives with such an impulsive act because her rage is so out of control she ruined her daughter's life she was seven her daughter was seven when she went to prison for life and then grew up being the daughter of tracy andrews which if you're outside of britain you maybe didn't haven't heard of this case but if you are you know british you have definitely heard of this case you've definitely seen that very iconic photo of tracy andrews she fucking killed lee Harvey. She made sure he didn't, his daughter didn't have a father and she fucking ruined her own life. For what? So yeah, that's the case of Tracy Andrews. As ever, you can follow us on all the social medias at Red Handed The Pod. You can also, if you would like to support the show with some money, you can also do so. We massively

appreciate it. You can do that on patreon.com slash redhanded. And here are some people who have done so this week. Kezia Michael Gray, Amy Brown, please enter name, very clever, Ryan Crum, Deva Nally, Candice Colon, Courtney Foster, Natalia Gomez, Cal Cashin, Shauna Reperez, and Fru Halgrim's daughter. Thank you very much, guys, for your delicious money. Cool. So we'll see you guys next week. See you next week. Bye.

Bye. I'm Jake Warren, and in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery+. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part,

Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me. And it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health.

This is season two of Finding. And this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history.

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