RedHanded - Episode 77 - Chris Watts: Family Annihilator

Episode Date: January 10, 2019

In August 2018 Shannan Watts’ body was found buried on a remote oil field in rural Weld County. In a oil tank nearby were the bodies of her two young daughters; Bella and Celeste. With only one real suspect who fit the crime, this case left the world asking - what makes a seemingly ordinary man, who appeared to have it all, kill his pregnant wife and children?   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Saruti. I'm Hannah. And welcome to Red Handed. This is one of the most recent cases that we've ever covered because it happened just last year in August 2018. And I think, unlike some of the other cases that we cover, I think probably most of you will definitely

have heard of this because it absolutely dominated the headlines. And we've also had a lot of requests to cover this case. We were also keen to because we haven't really covered the idea of a family annihilator in too much detail before. This is our first sort of deep dive into the psychology of a family annihilator. And our subject today is Chris Watts, a 33-year-old man currently sat in Dodge Correctional Institution, a maximum security prison in Wisconsin, serving five life sentences for the murder of his pregnant wife, Shanann, and his two young daughters, Bella and Celeste. And this guy is a real piece of shit. The most insidious thing is that he had this veneer of being a perfect family man so no one saw him coming. So what makes a man who as far as anyone can tell had no history of violence and if anything seemed

like a totally normal husband and father, what makes him suddenly kill his wife and children then carry on with life like nothing happened? Well before we get there let's start with what actually happened. Chris and Shanann Watts met in 2010 on Facebook after Chris's cousin's wife, wow that's a connection, who happened to be Shanann's mate suggested that she connect with him. I know so many people who've met on Facebook but I've never managed it myself. It seems like a very, how did, how? I think this was maybe like, like this happened in 2010. I don't think, do people still meet? I feel like people now meet on Instagram and Snapchat and dating apps. I think in 2010, maybe.

Maybe, that's true. Shanann was going through, as she described, some serious health challenges. She had just been diagnosed with lupus. For Shanann, this was one of the darkest times of her life. She quit her job of nine years and in her own words lost a lot of friends who couldn't understand her condition. In a bid to replace the life and the friends she was slipping away from, Shanann spent a lot of time online and made a lot of friends on social media. But she said that she still felt like no one understood her. Then she got a friend request

from Chris and she accepted. One thing led to another and soon they were in a relationship. Shanann felt like he was there for her and he understood her. And in her video journals from the time, Shanann credited Chris for lifting her out of her despair. And this is a case where we don't have to wonder too much about who's the source on this or that. There are so many videos on the internet of shenan talking about her and chris's life that it's like doing interviews with her it's really quite uncanny because more than any other case we've done i think during the research for this it felt like yeah like you said it was almost like you were doing interviews with her but you really almost felt like you knew these people because i was

just wondering you know how did these two meet? Just stuck it into Google. And there was a YouTube video taken from Shanann's Facebook where she's talking about how they met. It's quite eerie. It's really eerie. But we do have to be quite careful taking what we see on Shanann's and the family's social media as 100% fact. There is a big rose-tinted filter over their entire lives as it was portrayed online. We'll talk more about that as we go along. So after meeting on Facebook and hitting it off, Shanann and Chris got married on November 3rd, 2012. In the next big step towards their American dream, they went on to buy a five-bedroom house in Frederick, Colorado in 2013. And that same year in December, they had

their first daughter, Bella. Bella was followed by their second daughter, Celeste, or Cece, who was born just two years later in July 2015. They seemed like a totally ordinary, average, middle-class suburban family. And they seemed happy. And not particularly unusually. Shanann was very much a social media addict. She clearly loved her family and shared a picture-perfect version of their lives on Facebook. Shanann's posts were very much like an affirmation of the American dream. To outsiders, it looked like she had it all. She had, now, a satisfying career that allowed her to travel. She had two gorgeous little girls, a doting husband, and now a new baby on the way. Her Facebook page, which has now been memorialised,

featured picture after picture of her and Chris and the family. And yes, Shanann's social media posts painted a really pretty picture, but one that seems, or seemed, almost way too good to be true. On Facebook, Shanann often referred to Chris as her rock and as her best friend. She would post beaming pictures of the two of them in honour of something like Happy Husband Appreciation Day, saying, quote, I couldn't imagine a better man for us. Is Husband Appreciation Day real? I feel like it shouldn't be real. I feel like everything's real.

Another made-up day, on Valentine's Day, Shanannenan posted on instagram i love this man more than words can say he's my rock my love my biggest fan supporter and my husband i couldn't have handpicked a better man to call my husband and father to our girls and then there are the many many videos that shenan posted to her facebook page all showing chris to be a loving father to his children there's a whole video clip of shenan And then there are the many, many videos that Shanann posted to her Facebook page, all showing Chris to be a loving father to his children. There's a whole video clip of Shanann telling him that she's pregnant with their third child and he's all excited, asking her, really? That's awesome. In one clip, his daughter Bella even sings about her hero dad.

And I have always, I was going to say secretly then, but not secretly at all because I talk about it all the time, people who constantly post ultra positive social media posts, are they really as happy as they say they are? I always end up thinking, who are you trying to convince? And if you're that happy, why aren't you just living your life instead of constantly trying to show me it? I've been thinking about this today. I engage more with Instagram than I do with Facebook these days. And who do I follow on Instagram? It's people I know, drag queens, dogs and pole dancers.

Like that's, those are the people I follow. And I follow the people I don't know because I think what they're doing is interesting, but it's usually more to do with their job rather than their like life. I also think it's a part of it of like people thinking that they're famous and that people are like really interested in what they're doing. Of course, the whole social media experience is just like deeply rooted in our narcissism and feeling of somehow all of these people who maybe barely know me are super interested in what I'm eating on a Thursday afternoon. Like it is a deep sense of I'm not linking this to Shanann being a narcissist. God, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying social media use and our obsession with it is driven by that. We've completely gamified our lives. The likes,

the retweets, oh, this, it pumps us full of something, doesn't it? And to clarify, we're not trying to denigrate Shanann. She was a kind, loving mother who wanted her family and herself to be happy. And she wanted her marriage to work. All we're saying really is that what Shanann was doing is so not out of the ordinary. Oh, no, not at all. Everyone's at it. But her marriage wasn't working because Chris Watts was a dangerous man. Shanann just had no idea. I completely understand why everyone was so shocked by this case. It's brutal what Chris Watts does, but domestic abuse and familial murder is, if anything, shockingly all too common.

When we talk about Shanann's online behaviour and the family's social media persona, it's not to mock Shanann, it's to try and understand. And it's not just us who thinks that this is important. I read an interview with a woman named Erin Vogel, who's a postdoctoral fellow at the University of California, San Francisco Department of Psychiatry. And she hypothesizes the same thing. She says, when someone's life appears to be perfect on social media, it's hard to tell whether things are actually going well. Or whether the frequent positive social media posts might be an attempt to cope with some major problems. For some, posting on social media all the time may be a way to try and convince themselves and others that things are going well, when in reality, they're struggling. Getting likes and comments from other people on social media can bring temporary happiness, and posting frequently can be a way

to assure others that everything is fine. And of course, like everybody's social media feed is just like a polished veneer of how we want to market ourselves. But it's the constant posting of super positive messages. I think that's the difference. And there's one particular post that Shanann shared that really stuck with me. It was a text exchange between her and Chris. And in this conversation, she had sent him a photo of her ultrasound scan because at the time she died, she was 15 weeks pregnant. And he replied, quote, little peanut, I love him

slash her already. Shanann then shared a screenshot of this conversation on her Facebook with the caption, I love Chris. He's the best dad us girls could ask for. And this struck me as just being so heartbreakingly sad because it screams to me of a woman who was deeply insecure in her marriage. And it felt to me anyway, like she was desperately trying to convince herself that Chris was happy and that he was excited about their third child. Because as we go on to see, Chris Watts was gaslighting the hell out of Shanann. I think the man that she made Chris out to be on social media was the man that Shanann wanted him to be. Do you think there's an element of, oh, but look at all of the nice

things he does. So therefore the not nice things aren't as important. I'm just going to flood all of the positive stuff. Oh, of course. I mean, how many people are in relationships that are just like, as long as the good stuff outweighs the bad, this is good enough. And I'll ignore the bad things as long as the good things are really good. And almost by sharing these moments that her and Chris have where she does feel like, oh, yes, no, he is happy. This is going to be fine. And putting it on social media is almost it feels to me like a way to amplify it. It's like stamping it as authentic, isn't it? It's like it's out there in the world.

Other people have seen it. It's not stamping it as authentic, isn't it? It's like it's out there in the world. Other people have seen it. It's not just me. Also, the sharing of it on there is because when you know something is true deep down, your constant worry is that other people will realise. She knows that her marriage is in trouble. So I feel in the back of her mind, she would have been worried that other people would realise. So by sharing all these positive messages on social media is a way to avert everyone's gaze from what's really happening. And Chris as well is very involved in this. You can see him in the videos. He's playing along. He wants the world to believe that he is this perfect family man. But privately, Shanann didn't seem totally convinced of how happy their marriage really was.

There were cracks that didn't show through these images and rosy posts. In 2015, the same year Cece was born, the couple declared bankruptcy. They were in debt for $448,820. Did I say that right? Yep. Yeah, numbers. For us, what's the word? I was going to say philistine, but that's like an art thing, isn't it?

For us not-maths people, that is nearly half a million dollars. And of course, a financial crisis puts a huge amount of stress on a relationship. It's the leading cause of divorce. But it wasn't just the money. Something else had changed. In the weeks leading up to the murders, Shanann had felt Chris grow distant and cold. We have a lot of information, not just from social media, but also from the almost 2,000-page report released by the Weld County District Attorney's Office about this case. And according to the notes from the police interviews with Shanann's best friend, Christina Meacham, Shanann seemed to realize that her marriage was really in trouble around the time that she and her daughters took a long trip

that summer to see some family in North Carolina. They were gone for five weeks, so between June 27th to July 30th. During the five weeks, Chris stayed at home to work, but he went to join them for their final and sixth week. And according to Christina, who Shanann had been texting everything about her marriage to, Chris came to Shanann in that final week, quote, as a totally different man. While in North Carolina, Shanann texts Christina saying that he wouldn't touch her or kiss her anymore and that he was being cold towards her. Shanann also told Christina that Chris didn't want the baby she was pregnant with and that he was scared. Shanann said that he had told her that he was happy with just having the two girls and that he didn't think that they as a couple were compatible anymore. In the text exchange, Christina asked Shanann

what the hell had changed in six weeks, to which Shanann replied, he said he had a lot of time to think. But texts show that the cracks had started to appear before this. In a text exchange between Chris and Shanann on July 10th, so a couple of weeks before she goes away, Shanann wrote to Chris, you okay? It's like you don't want to talk. And Chris replied, I'm going to really struggle to get through this. I'm fine, baby. The last few weeks at work have put a lot of responsibility on me with new people. I didn't mean to seem short, boo. I love you to the moon and back. Shanann then messages him, telling him, I miss you, but I feel like all you want to do is work out and run. And

then Chris replies, saying that running helped to clear his head. On July 24th, so when Shanann is in North Carolina and Chris is still at home, she texts him saying, I realized during this trip what's missing in our relationship. It's only one way emotions and feelings. I can't come back like this. I need you to meet me halfway. You don't consider others at all, nor think about others feelings. To which Chris again replies that he was sorry and that he loves her. Shanann responded, I try to give you space. But while you're working and living the bachelor life, I'm carrying our third child and fighting with our two kids daily and trying to work and make money.

It's not hard texting love you and miss you. If you don't mean it, then I get it. But we need to talk. I kept looking at my phone all night and no response from you. Like, seriously. We didn't just start dating yesterday. We've been together for eight years and have 2.5 kids together. And I really just feel like these texts are so revealing. He's so pathetic. She's

pregnant. She's your wife. And clearly she needed his support and time. And he's just like, yeah, yeah, I love you. Sorry, I'm busy. And then just continues to act really distant. And that line that Shanann says about them not just having started to date is exactly it. He's acting. Don't you think he's acting like a guy that she just went on a few dates with who's lost a bit of interest and he's almost acting like she's asking for a huge commitment from him as a guy she barely knows? It does feel a bit like that. It feels a bit like he's gaslighting her.

That's exactly what he's doing. He's just being like, oh, everything's fine. Don't worry about it. I don't really understand why you're so upset. Everything's clearly fine. Yeah. And then I'm not going to touch you or come near you or want to talk to you. And I'm just going to work out all the time. You've told me specifically the behavior that bothers you. And I'm going to continue to do it because I don't think it's wrong. And on August 5th, there's another text exchange. And remember, by now, by August 5th, Chris had joined Shanann and the girls in North Carolina. Shanann messaged Chris saying, I don't know how you fell out of love with me in five and a half weeks, or if this has been going

on for a long time, but you don't plan another baby if you're not in love. Kids don't deserve a broken family. If you're done, don't love me. Don't want this to work out and not happy anymore and only staying because of the kids i need you to tell me and that's a very fair request she's not like don't leave me i'll kill myself if you leave me she's like if this is what you want if you want to go and you don't love me anymore just tell me and no he replies i'm not just staying because of the kids they are my light and that will not change. I didn't fall out of love with you in five weeks. That's impossible.

I don't want to erase eight years just like that. I'm not sure what's in my head, but this will all get fixed. Again, no clear answer, which is what she's begging him for. And he's just like, I don't know. Cliche, cliche. They're my light. I love you. I don't want to erase this. I don't know. Cliche, cliche. They're my light. I love you. I don't want to erase this. I don't know what's in my head. Such a fucking loser.

He's such a coward. He's so gross. And she's telling him, you know, if you're done, just tell me. And I'm sure even if you do say that to somebody, you're not going to react great if he does turn around and say, oh yeah, you're right. I am done. Divorce happens. That's not uncommon. So why can't he just tell her that he wants to separate that he wants a divorce why does he keep dragging it out and fucking with her head it's like he doesn't want this anymore but that he doesn't want to throw away that persona he's built for himself as like the nice family guy I think that's exactly it in the grand scheme scheme of things like they've been obviously I'm not defending him because he murdered his children

and his wife. But let's pretend he's not a murderer. If you have been married for eight years and then you have five weeks away from each other and you've had time to think about it, maybe you wouldn't be quite at the point where this is over at the end of five weeks. It's a big decision.

However, you should be a little bit more transparent about it than he's being. We're talking about this with the perfect perspective of knowing how this ends. But relationships are obviously complicated. They're obviously difficult. But I think Chris Watts, from everything you read, he gaslights her constantly. And he does seem to be very emotionally abusive with her, the way that he behaves. And another thing that's quite interesting is the thing that Shanann gets most annoyed about is Chris only ever wanting to work out. He's just running all the time and not spending enough time with the kids. And this evolution of Chris Watts is very interesting because when Chris and Shanann got married, Shanann is hot and Chris, who at the time was 27,

looks like he's about 45. Like he really is not doing well he looks like shit and then if you look at the more recent pictures shenan is still hot and chris who has clearly become a fitness fanatic gets trim and he you can watch the youtube interviews with him just after this he's lean he's a lean guy google shenan and chris watts wedding and look at how shit he looks at their wedding compared to how he looks after they've been married for eight years. So is it possible that he figured, I'm hot now, maybe I can do better. Maybe I could have a different life, a hot person life. This is my mediocre person life. So as Shanann said, he wanted to be living the bachelor's life. And during those five weeks that Shanann and the girls were away, Chris was indeed living the bachelor's life. And during those five weeks that Shanann and the girls were away,

Chris was indeed living the bachelor's life. Because guess what? He had a mistress, a woman named Nicole Kessinger. Nicole and Chris had met at work. And with his wife away, like Hannah said, he got the chance to date Nicole like a single guy. The two went on dates to the Great Sand Dunes National Park in southern Colorado and they went to museums in Boulder. And one night they even went for dinner at a place called the Rusty Bucket. Sounds delightful. Take me on a date to the Rusty Bucket. Get me a fucking tetanus shot after. Like, what is this? And Shanann had actually spotted this particular transaction at the Rusty Bucket on their credit card bill because it was for $62. And suspicious about it, she asked Chris.

She's such an amateur. Get another card. That's not hard. You're in half a million dollars worth of debt. What are you doing? Well, going to the Rusty Bucket, clearly. He's like the kind of person that is completely trying to just separate himself from reality throughout this entire case. And with credit cards, it's easy to do that. Doesn't feel like real money. Chris is just taking Nicole out for $60 dinners.

And yeah, when Shanann asked him about it, he told her, just don't worry about it, baby. I went to the baseball with a few mates. And afterwards, we went for dinner. And I had a beer and some salmon. And that's why it was so expensive. What the fuck? Salmon? Especially in a place called the Rusty Bucket?

I'm guessing it doesn't cost $60, surely. How much beer is he saying he drank? Just say you paid for a mate and he paid you back in cash. Something that is a better lie than I had the salmon. He's such an amateur. And during these five weeks apart, than I had the salmon. He's such an amateur. And during these five weeks apart, you could feel the suspicion. And rightly so. Shanann thought something was going on. And the texts that we went through during the same time period really show that frustration. But we

also know now that Chris got a real taste, I think, during these five weeks for what life could be like without Shanann and his kids cramping his style and nicole the woman he's having an affair with is an interesting character as well when she was originally interviewed by police she told them that she had only just met chris and that she barely knew him she simply said that she had thought he was attractive and he wasn't wearing a wedding ring when they had met he told her that he wasn't wearing a wedding ring. When they had met, he told her that he was in the final stages of a divorce. But there's a bit more to her than this. We'll come back to it. Despite her suspicions, Shanann had no idea about Nicole. And despite

the tensions in their marriage, Shanann wasn't just going to walk away. She was fighting to save her eight-year marriage. And according to another friend of Shanann's called Addy, towards the end of their time in North Carolina, Chris had come round to the idea of having another child once he found out that it was a boy. Wasn't it a planned one? So he's flip-flopping. So they've planned a baby and then he decides he doesn't want it and then he changes his mind. Yeah. I don't know how planned it was. I think it was like she accuses him of like why would you have another baby if you weren't in love with me so it kind of

sounds like it was planned and then when she surprises him in that video he's like oh my god amazing and then he's like actually i don't want a baby i'm happy with just the situation as it is right because we're bankrupt as it is with two kids. When they're in North Carolina, when he goes to join her, Shanann finds out that it's a boy. And then apparently he's like, oh, okay, maybe then I can make it work. In those five weeks when he's not with Shanann and he's with Nicole, he's like, yeah, Nicole, I love you. I want to be with you.

Fuck Shanann. I'm going to ignore all of her texts and we're going to go out to the Rusty Bucket for dinners. And then when he goes to North Carolina in that week, he's like, oh, no, I don't want this anymore. Oh want this anymore oh it's a boy oh maybe maybe we can make it work trying to fit into their perfect ideal of him maybe i don't know he's also kind of strikes me as the person who doesn't give a shit i don't know i don't yeah it's strange it is weird so he agreed to try counseling to try and make it work with shenan and i also wonder maybe you know he agrees to

counseling agrees to try and make it work says maybe if it And I also wonder maybe, you know, he agrees to counseling, agrees to try and make it work, says maybe if it's a boy, it's okay. Do you think maybe he's just saying that to shut her up because she keeps asking him what's going on? Well, maybe he's already decided he's going to kill her and he knows it doesn't really matter. I wonder if that's what it is. I wonder if it's like, he's like, shit, I let the cat out of the bag. I told her that I wanted to end this.

She reacted really badly. I had to deal with all these things. I had to give her responses. I got away with it for five weeks while she was in North Carolina, but now she's going to come home and be on at me every single day. Let's tell her what she wants to hear and then I'll just kill her. Maybe he's already thinking about that. Once they returned from North Carolina, Shanann had to go on a work trip to Arizona until the 12th of August. Thinking that they just needed some time alone to work on their marriage, Shanann planned a romantic getaway for them the following weekend. So that's the weekend of the 19th of August.

But a romantic getaway was the last thing on Chris's mind. By then, Shanann, her unborn baby, who she planned to call Nico, and her two daughters would already be dead. Because at the same time that Shanann was planning this trip, Chris Watts was with his mistress, Nicole Kessinger, discussing his next steps and the apartment that he planned to get when he separated from his wife. Yeah, good luck. You're in a fucking shitload of day. And on that Sunday, so the afternoon of August 12th, while Shanann was still away with work, Chris Watts had taken four-year-old

Bella and three-year-old Cece to a birthday party. And this next bit is honestly one of the most disgusting parts of this entire story. As his two young daughters played in the pool, their father sat by the side, texting a co-worker of his, Cody Roberts. He was texting Cody to set up a plan to dispose of the bodies of his wife and daughters. Right there, while they're playing in front of him. And by 5pm that evening, he was all set. Chris Watts worked for a company called Anadarko Petroleum. That sounds like a made-up company in a Bond film, doesn't it? So fake. And he had been texting Cody to set up a site visit the next morning to one of the more distant oil fields that was managed by his company. It was where the bodies of Shanann, Bella and Celeste would be discovered just days after they went missing.

Now, just to be totally clear, this guy, Cody Roberts, had no idea what Chris had planned. Cody worked out on that oil field and Chris just told him that he needed to come there the next morning to inspect a possible leak. Cody told him okay fine. He did tell police later that he thought it was slightly weird that Chris had texted him on a Sunday but he said that he liked Chris and he hadn't thought too much of it especially because no one really liked coming out to that oil field because it was so far out so for him to text him about it it must have been important. And this is the thing because the fact that Chris was texting Cody about the oil field on Sunday afternoon, and given that his family were killed in the early hours of Monday morning,

proves beyond a doubt to me just how premeditated all of this was. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery Show American Scandal. We bring to light some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes.

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there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Lainey Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder

early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall, that was no protection. Claudine Gay is now gone. We've exposed the DEI regime and there's much more to come. This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On The Media. To listen, subscribe to On The Media wherever you get your podcasts. So with his plan in place, he took the girls home from the pool party, gave them both showers, bought them pizza and put them to bed. And we know that this is true and that the girls were still alive that evening because Shanann's father spoke to the girls on FaceTime.

The girls were both desperate to see Shanann, who was due to return home late that night from her work trip. Chris claimed that he put the girls to bed before 8pm, but that Bella woke up twice running out to ask when her mum would be home. Chris assured her that she would see her mother in the morning, but that would never happen, because just hours later, Shanann did indeed return home,

but soon after, her and the girls were all murdered in their house. Cody Roberts told the Colorado Bureau of Investigation that as they had discussed via text, Chris Watts did arrive to the Survey 629 site on Monday morning, and he was alone. And Cody told the police that Chris didn't seem to be acting oddly that day, but he did note that Chris had made

multiple trips to his car. Unbeknownst to Cody, Chris had just buried his wife in a shallow grave and dumped his daughters in an oil tank out there. And after killing his family and disposing of their bodies, Chris spent a normal day at work and casually texted his girlfriend, Nicole Kessinger. He even, and this is so weird to me, he even made calls to a real estate agent about selling the family home and called the girls' school and told them that they would not actually be enrolling for the start of the next term as had been planned.

This is what I don't understand about this whole thing. He wants to get a new apartment, start a new life with Nicole, whatever. Why doesn't he just disappear? Why does he ring their school ring an estate agent this is all stuff they can trace him through like what is he doing does he seriously think arrogance that no one's gonna notice yeah i guess i think so and i wondered i was like why did he call that school but i wondered i don't know maybe it was a private school and he needed to tell them so that they wouldn't take the money or something. I don't know. In between all of these bizarre calls that he's making and the very normal day he's having at work, he was googling Metallica lyrics. And the song that he googled was called Battery. And this song includes the lyrics,

Smashing through the boundaries, lunacy has found me, and pounding out aggression turns into obsession, cannot kill the battery, cannot kill the family. What? I'm lost for words, honestly. Like, it's just, how does he think no one's going to see that? I don't know. I don't know. Chris is obviously having a very normal time after, or trying to have a very normal time after he's just killed and disposed his family. But what actually happened the morning of August 13th? Well, Shanann was spotted coming home from her work trip to Arizona. She's caught on a neighbor's security camera being dropped home by a friend, another Nicole, this Nicole is called Nicole Atkinson,

and she becomes very important in this case, at 1.48 a.m. on August 13th. That's a good friend. I cannot think of a single human being in the world I would drop home at two o'clock in the morning. I think they were on the work trip together. So when they came home, Nicole dropped her home before she went home. And according to Chris, in the initial police reports, at around 5am, he and Shanann had had an emotional discussion. And those are the words he uses, an emotional discussion. And apparently this consisted of him telling Shanann that he wanted to separate and sell the house.

He said that after the conversation, Shanann was upset so he left her in bed and decided to go out. He said that on his way out, he checked that the girls were asleep and left but Shanann and the girls weren't in the house at all and it wasn't long before the alarm was raised. Nicole Atkinson, the friend who had dropped Shanann home that morning, was the first to notice that something was wrong. She said that she had called Shanann later that day to see how she was.

Shanann was 15 weeks pregnant, and she hadn't been feeling well during their business trip. Nicole Atkinson and Shanann were close, so she thought it was odd when Shanann didn't pick up the phone or reply to any messages. Shanann had also had a scan that day at 10am which she had missed. Nicole thought this was especially weird because she said that Shanann usually texted her after a trip like that. At first, Nicole thought that maybe Shanann was just tired.

But soon, she became worried. So Nicole went to Shanann's house to check on her. When she arrived, she saw Shanann's car in the garage. So she figured she must be in. Nicole said she knocked on the door but there was no response so she decided to open it. But the latch was on so she couldn't get in. So Nicole called Chris and asked him to come home. She was concerned because Shanann was pregnant, she had lupus and she was diabetic.

Shanann wasn't prone to fainting or anything, but Nicole is clearly just being incredibly careful. And also considering that she knew Shanann was with the two little girls, I think she just wanted to be sure that everyone was okay. But when Nicole called Chris, instead of, I guess, like she expected for him to be as worried as she was, he just seemed super vague about where Shanann was. He told her that, oh, she's with the girls at a play date. But he kept saying that he didn't know where or who with. Such a bad liar. And finally, at around 1.30pm, so 12 hours after she had last seen her friend, Nicole called the police to do a welfare check at the house. Because she couldn't get Chris to come home. The police arrived, but obviously also they couldn't get inside.

So Nicole carried on calling Chris, and when she told him that the police were there, he eventually came home. When he arrived, he opened the door and gave them his consent to check the house. During the search, Chris found Shanann's wedding ring and said that he had found it on the bedside table. They also found Shanann's purse, phone phone and credit cards in the house. And with Shanann and the girls missing, and all of this stuff still in the house, Detective Baumhover

from the Frederick Police Department was called. Well, she can't have got very far without any money, her phone or her car, can she? He is so stupid. Why would you leave those things in the house? Why would you yourself still be in the house? That's what I can't get my head around. I don't know. Chris admitted to the detective that he and Shanann had talked the night before about separating and that she had been upset. He was very careful to say that it was an emotional but civil discussion and definitely not an argument. He said after this amazingly civil discussion regarding their separation after eight years of marriage, he had left the house at 5.27am and gone to work. The police checked the story by looking at the neighbour's security cameras. So the neighbour, Nathaniel Trinastitch's camera, showed Nicole dropping Shanann off at 1.48am. Then it showed Chris backing his truck into the driveway at 5.27am. A short time later,

it also showed him driving away. You couldn't see the rear of the truck on the driveway at 5.27am, a short time later. It also showed him driving away. You couldn't see the rear of the truck on the camera. So when the police asked what Chris had been doing, he said that he was loading his tools for work. But neighbours said that they had never seen him load his tools like that before. Also, him telling them that he's gone to work at 5.27 is particularly specific. Chris's demeanour during this time was noted by detectives as nonchalant. He seemed rather unsurprised and unconcerned that his wife and his daughters were missing. Shanann's mother, Sandra Rozczyk, was immediately suspicious of Chris when she discovered that her daughter was missing. She even called the detective Dave Baumhofer

and told him to check the GPS on Chris's truck. That's mad to be that suspicious of your daughter's husband so immediately. I think Shanann was very close to her family and if she told her friends in this much detail, like Christine, exactly what was happening, I think she would have been very open with her mother about the relationship between her and Chris. But still, still, it's crazy that immediately her mother about the relationship between her and Chris.

But still, still, it's crazy that immediately her mum jumps the conclusion that he's killed her. The thing she jumps to is he's killed her and buried her in a field. I guess because even if they thought she had left him and run off, they would have thought she would have just come home to them. That's true. And at 7am the next day, so on Tuesday the 14th of August, with neither Shanann nor the girls having come home, detectives identified all three as missing. At this point, Detective Dave Baumhofer was concerned enough that he requested the assistance of the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. And by that afternoon, Chris Watts was standing on his porch giving the now infamous and weird as fuck interview saying that not having his family at home was earth shattering and oh this interview it's about seven minutes long and it's so cringe and infuriating to watch i remember when it first came out after shanan and the girls were first

reported missing and i remember watching it and thinking shit i bet he did it and here's just a brief snippet we will post the full one on facebook so you guys can watch it because you really do have to watch it to get the full flavor and then walked in the house and nothing was vanished nothing was here i mean she wasn't she wasn't here the kids weren't here nobody was here i called her three times texted her about three times just to say you know know, what's going on. Like, I did, because after I called her and texted her once, it was like, maybe she was just busy. Like, she just got back, you know, like, everybody's probably calling her from her trip.

She just got back from Arizona. And I figured, yes, she was just busy. But when her friend showed up, that's what it was like. It registered, like, all right, this isn't right. I mean, right now, I don't even want to just, like, throw anything out there. Like, I hope that she's somewhere safe right now and with the kids. But, I mean, could she have been? Could she have just taken off?

I don't know. But if somebody has her and they're not safe, like, I want them back now. Like, that's what's in my head. Like, if they're safe right now, they're going to come back. But if they're not safe right now, that's the not knowing part. Like, if they're not safe. Last night, I had every light in the house on. I was hoping that I would just get just ran over by the kids running in the door and just, like, barrel rushing me, but it didn't happen.

And it was just a traumatic night trying to be here i mean yeah my kids are my life i mean those those smiles light up my life and it's like i mean last night like during like you know when they usually eat dinner it was just like i miss them like i mean i miss telling hey you got to eat that or you're not gonna get dessert you know i'm just like you're not gonna get your snack after i missed that like i missed them you know cuddle up on their couches they have like a mini mouse couch and sofia couch that they cuddle up on and watch you know bubble guppies or something and it was just like you know i mean i i was it was tearing me apart last night i needed that i needed that last night and for that nobody to be here last night and to go into their rooms and not and know that i wasn't going to turn the rain machines on i know that i wasn't going to turn

their monitor on no i wasn't going to kiss them to bed tonight it was it was i that's why last night was horrible and this is the thing with this it's just just all I, I, I. They weren't here. And it's what I needed last night. I needed a hug. I needed to see them. Fuck off. Do you know who he reminds me of? Tia Sharpe's granddad?

Yeah. When he does his press conference and he's saying all of these things about how upset he is, how affected he is by the whole thing. But he fucking did it. It's the act of appearing upset that they think is is gonna throw them off the trail somehow don't you think he doesn't even seem that upset though he seems no he doesn't he seems really defensive he's got his arms crossed he's like and he looks really um blank in the face but then you know we could pick apart so many different people you could watch people who are guilty

people are witness and giving press conferences and everybody could do something that makes them look guilty. So I don't put much stock in that, but I do find his language very bizarre. One particular thing, he keeps saying things like, I miss them. By this point, they've only been gone a night. So is it just me or is that weird? Because it sounds- No, I think it's really weird. To say I miss them, to me kind of sounds like you know that they aren't coming back and you've resigned yourself to that fact. You know, he's never saying come back. He never once addresses Shanann directly as if he thinks maybe she's run off and she's watching because that's what he tells the police he thinks has happened. But he never is like, Shanann, I'm sorry. Come home. We'll talk. Let's

figure this out. He never directly addresses her because he fucking knows she's dead. Even though his words are cringe enough, like I said, you really do have to watch this to get the full effect. There's so many weird tics that he does. Like he shrugs and gulps throughout it. It's such a mistake what he did going on TV. I also thought it was weird that a missing persons case, I suppose there are children involved, so maybe it's a bit more high profile, but for a local news station to be at their house the next day seems very swift to me the perfect

like front page photo though aren't they not to put it crudely but like how the media would perceive this case it's like this all-american mom her two little girls who are super cute disappeared this guy who everyone can't stop talking about like like a quote-unquote attractive guy. It's like the perfect scenario for the media. And I think they just loved it. They jumped all over it. But this press conference pushed an already suspicious Sandy, Shanann's mum, over the edge.

She called the police again and told them that Chris was acting, quote, weird and out of the ordinary. She said that Chris was telling people that he has to go to work and that he just doesn't seem right. I think any boss in the world would say, my wife and kids are missing, do you mind if I come in later? Sandy told the police that she felt he was going out to pour oil on the bodies to dispose of them somewhere.

But Sandy didn't need to give the police too much because they were already suspicious of Chris. Doesn't Sandy just come across like a fucking psychic in this, though? She does a bit. How does she know? I suppose if he's working with oil, that would be the logical. Still, though. Track his GPS.

He's disposing of their bodies with oil. Like, it's weird. It's quite eerie. And at 4.15pm on Wednesday, the 15th of August, police investigators started a drone search of the oil and gas site that Chris had visited the day his family had vanished. There, the police spotted a bed sheet matching the pattern of pillowcases and a top sheet that they had recovered from a kitchen bin in the Watts family home earlier that day. Police also spotted, quote, fresh movement of dirt consistent with a clandestine grave near the oil tanks.

And that same evening, so after two days of investigating, police discovered that Chris Watts was engaged in an affair with his colleague, Nicole Kessinger. So bingo, we've got a motive. I mean, I guess more than a motive of just being married to the person. Yeah, it's like the worst thing that could happen. Your wife is missing, they find out you're having an affair. And it gets just worse because phone records from the Sunday night the family had last been seen showed that the pair, Nicole and Chris, had spoken for hours. And with their suspicions raised, police also looked into Nicole and found that at 5pm on Monday,

so by the time that the fact that her boyfriend's pregnant wife and two kids were missing is all over the news nicole kessinger had been googling can cops trace text messages and how long do cell companies keep text messages come on it's like they're not even trying to get away with it i know it's because at this point she doesn't know that they found out about the affair so it's like she's trying to make sure she knows that they'll check his phone so So is she checking? Will they be able to figure out about the affair? And like we said, Nicole before claimed that she knew nothing about anything and barely knew Chris. But the report shows Nicole in a very different context. Her Google history is not the best because on July 24th, Kessinger had Google search the phrase, man I'm having an affair with says he will leave his wife.

Doesn't really sound like you thought he was divorced, does it, Nicole? If you're wondering if the man you're seeing will leave his wife. Oh, is there a more tragic Google search than that? I don't know. I can't think of one if there is. Oh, Nicole, Nicole, Nicole. And on the 4th of August at 12.45am, she's up late wondering about this, Nicole Kessinger searched Google for wedding dresses for over two hours and also Googled things like marrying

your mistress. Now, that also seems to contradict her previous statement that she barely knew the guy because that doesn't really sound like you hardly knew him, does it, Nicole? I don't know. I think about marrying people who hold the door open for me. Spend two hours googling wedding dresses and wondering if he'll marry your mistress. Wedding dresses I probably would do, but marrying your mistress, maybe not. And look, we aren't here to drag Nicole. She wasn't the one who was married. She wasn't the one who was being unfaithful. And she wasn't the one who murdered anybody. And we also do know that Chris is good at putting on a front, at being slick and manipulative. But there are some things

in this case that make Nicole Kessinger look really shitty. Because as everything came out in the media, Nicole was clearly worried about if she'd be publicly shamed by her role in this relationship. So she started googling about the mistress of another infamous family killer, Scott Peterson, who killed his pregnant wife Lacey in 2002. She had been Googling, did people hate Amber Frey? Amber Frey is the mistress of Scott Peterson. Okay, she's worried about how she'll be seen. I can understand that. But there's another Google that she does that is a little more revolting. She had been googling about a book deal that

Amber Frey had got and also how much money Amber had made from her infidelity with a killer. The police also examined Nicole's phone and found hours worth of searches for Shanann Watts and after the murder a search using the phrase can cops trace text messages? Yes, and they can also trace your search history, Nicole. Nicole also admitted to deleting all of her communication with Chris before handing her phone over to the police. We aren't going to spend too much longer talking about Nicole, but she does come across as a bit of a dick. In the police interview, she seems to contradict herself all over the place, saying that she didn't even know his wife's name until it was in the news. That has to be bollocks. With all the social media exposure the watts family had how could she not have known

his real situation and even if she didn't know his real situation bollocks that she didn't know his wife's ex-wife wife divorcing wife's name come on she spent half her time on google googling things you don't think she went on facebook and tried to look up who his ex-wife was fuck off off. Yeah. She's full of shit. But just being a shitty person and a liar doesn't make you a killer. Do you think she knew he was going to kill them though? I don't think she knew he was going to kill them. No, I don't either. She knew that he was married and I think she was like, I want him. But just being a shitty person doesn't make you a murderer. So we can't put her. No, absolutely not. You know, what I don't want to do is like put her on a level with chris with chris watts she just is a bit of a dick but i do definitely think like i said like she definitely knew more than she was letting on

and if you listen to the police interviews you'll definitely know why i think that because she even tries to say in the police interviews at one point that she was trying to convince him to try and make his marriage work nobody is gonna believe that especially not police who are trained in interrogation like why are you even bothering oh my god she's just so full of shit and then there's a point when she's like oh and then i found out he had two kids and they're so cute and she actually says it like that and i was like shut the fuck up but like i said like being a liar doesn't make you a killer or even an accomplice i don't think she knew anything about it but before we we move on from Nicole and Chris Watts' fucking love affair, or whatever we want to call it,

there is one thing I do want to laugh at, and it's the love letters that these two shared, because bloody hell, he is so tragic. Firstly, during those five weeks when it was just the two of them, and he had just come back from their, like, getaway at the Sand Dunes resort or whatever, he had googled love from their like getaway at the sand dunes resort or whatever he had googled love letter and love lyrics he couldn't even write anything himself he's such a loser but even after all that googling all he managed to come up with was this big things will happen this year dreams will come true that smile that stare that laugh that giggle gets me every time when

i'm around you i can feel peace in the atmosphere. You keep my engine roaring when you're pushing on the pedal. Oh, my fucking life. And he uses the wrong yaw because he's a fucking bellend. Oh, don't be so pedantic. Language evolves. I will be pedantic. He's a prick. Back to the investigation. His grammatical crimes far outweigh. Outrageous. far outrageous outrageous i just really annoys me

so by this point that we're at when they've discovered about nicole they've checked her out it's been two days since chanel and the girls went missing and chris wurtz was asked to take a polygraph test which despite our feelings towards them definitely shook things loose in this case before the polygraph, Chris was still playing the shocked and confused husband card, saying, it honestly just makes me sick to my stomach because this is something that I would never do. There's no way I would harm anyone in this family at all. And I'm telling you the absolute truth. But polygraph conductor Tammy Lee told him after his pathetic attempt at lying, it's completely clear that you were not honest

during the testing. And I think you already know that. You did not pass the polygraph test. But even after he fails the polygraph test, Chris just keeps on lying. So the agents tried a different approach. They brought in Chris's dad, Ronnie. Ronnie had flown across the country to be with Chris and the agents told him, you don't want to lie to your father, do you? And unbelievably, this tactic worked. Chris asked to be able to speak to his dad alone, saying that he'd tell the truth if he could just speak to his dad. Ronnie was told that they would be recorded and he agreed to go in, but he was not prepared to hear what he heard because Chris Watts told his dad that he had killed Shanann. And in another truly disgusting part of this case, Chris Watts

told his father Ronnie, quote, I'm not going to protect her anymore. She hurt them. She smothered them or choked them. And then I killed her. After this confession, Watts then told agents a similar story, claiming that after he had told Shanann that he wanted to separate, that she totally lost it. And to punish him, she had started to choke the girls to death. He said that as he saw Shanann choking little Cece, he saw evil. He went on to say, quote, I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to fucking do. None of this made sense. But of course, this turned out to be a lie too. And this just pisses me off so much because like he's now turning her into the monster in this

story. I mean, I think the whole like like, I didn't know what to do, I didn't know what to fucking do. I think that's probably the most truthful thing that he says, because I do believe he was just like, I didn't know what to do. He did it. I don't know. Maybe it's premeditated. Who knows? And on Thursday, August 16th, Shanann Watts's body was found in a shallow grave, just 18 inches deep on the Anadarko petroleum field in rural Weld County. Bella and Cece were found inside oil tanks filled with crude oil located near where their mother's body was found. The opening to the oil tanks was only about 18 inches wide

and Bella, the four-year-old, had scratches all over her sides from where her body had been pushed into the oil tank by her father. The autopsy report states that Shanann Watts was found in just a purple t-shirt and underwear. She had abrasions on her back and on the left tank by her father. The autopsy report states that Shanann Watts was found in just a purple t-shirt and underwear. She had abrasions on her back and on the left side of her face, but she had no defensive wounds on her body and her injuries were consistent with manual strangulation. The lack of defensive wounds does make me wonder if she'd been drugged or something and the injuries as well as all of the planning where to dump the bodies really do point to the fact that Chris didn't kill Shanann in an uncontrolled rage,

as he had claimed, but deliberately and in cold blood. The autopsy reports on the girls showed that most likely Watts had smothered the girls. Bella had suffered from blunt force trauma to the jaw and had lacerations and contusions in her mouth. Her left shoulder was discoloured and teeth impressions and superficial bite marks were found on the surface of Bella's tongue. Bella had fought for her mouth. Her left shoulder was discoloured and teeth impressions and superficial bite marks were found on the surface of Bella's tongue. Bella had fought for her life. Three-year-old Celeste had no visible external injuries or defensive wounds, so I wonder whether she was asleep when Watts

attacked her. Chris Watts was arrested on suspicion of three first-degree murder charges and three charges of tampering with a deceased human body. On Tuesday, the 6th of November 2017, Chris Watts entered guilty pleas to all nine felonies related to the deaths of his pregnant wife and children. By pleading guilty, Watts was able to avoid the possibility of facing the death penalty for the murders. After an incredibly emotional trial on Monday, the 19th of November, Chris Watts was sentenced to three consecutive life sentences, plus 84 years for killing his wife and children. He received the maximum penalty for each of the nine counts against him. So now we've been through the whole story,

but still, what was Chris Watts' motive? Because why wouldn't he just leave? Why wouldn't he just disappear? I think to try and understand this, let's consider the psychology of the family annihilator. There was a study that was conducted here in Britain examining the psychological profiles of this type of killer. Typically, they are men. Typically, they are in their 30s. And generally speaking, they are not known to law enforcement or mental health services. They are seen as successful men with high profileprofile jobs and perfect families. They are seen as good fathers and loving husbands. So what makes these so-called ordinary men murder their entire families? Of the four types of family annihilators identified, you have, firstly, the self-righteous

killer. This type of family annihilator holds the mother responsible for the breakdown of the family. Then you have the disappointed killer. These ones believe that their family has let them down. This is the type of killer we see in so-called honor killings, where the children have supposedly embarrassed the family. Then you have the anomic killers. These killers see their families as a symbol of their own economic success. So if they suffer some kind of economic failure, like a bankruptcy, the family no longer serves this function. This reminds me of cases like Christopher Foster here in the UK. And then finally you have the paranoid killers. These killers are often motivated by a

desire to protect their family from a perceived threat, such as having children taken away by social services. Chris fits into a lot of these boxes. He even killed his family in August, which according to this study is the month during which family annihilations are the most common. I actually read an article this morning about how when the temperature goes up, so does the crime rate. I think we could say that Chris is most likely fits into the self-righteous killer. I can kind of believe that he was just like, she's making me do this because I don't want to be here anymore. And that's her fault. Because he tries to fit into this perfect family man box. He kind of sees them as currency. I think it's like, look what I've achieved. These

are my perfect 2.5 children. And here's my five bedroom house that I can't afford. Definitely. I do think there are elements of it's like a mixture of the self-righteous and the anomic killer where it's like to be a man and to have a wife and to have these kids. It's an economic status, isn't it? To have this massive house and you're providing for all of them. But like I said, they were, they had declared bankruptcy. They were in huge amounts of debt. It's complicated because I don't necessarily think he perfectly fits into any of those categories as to his true motivations for why it seems like he did it. And though we could sort of nicely round

this off by saying, well, he's a combination of a self-righteous and an anomic family annihilator. But what does that really mean in this context? Because I personally think the root of all of this, the real motive for these murders, was greed. Chris Watts, in my opinion, didn't want to be a dad. He didn't want to be burdened or pressured or have to deal with the financial responsibilities or the expectations that came with that particular type of life. I think Chris Watts felt like he was living a life that he didn't want to be living and it was killing him. I think he wanted out. And unlike with how other people might try to get out of a situation like this through divorce, his fucked up narcissistic mentality meant that the only way he

thought he could get out of this, and I'm not making excuses for him, the way that he wanted to get out of this was by killing his family. I think he thought by taking their lives that somehow he could get his life back. And it's all greed because he wanted more, more than the life that he had, but he wasn't prepared to pay the price to get what he wanted. And by which I mean being honest and asking for a divorce and doing it the way that millions of other people do. Oh no, not for Chris. He wanted what he wanted, but he didn't want to pay for it. He wanted to dodge his responsibilities and reality. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too. And you read everywhere with this case. What made him snap? What made this ordinary guy snap? But I really think no one just snaps. To Chris and men like him, women and children, even their wives

and their own children, are just objects that can be disposed of when they become a problem. And I think that if we were to dig into Chris Watts' childhood, I honestly think that we would find the story of a spoiled, entitled prick of a kid. And just based on the evidence that we have, I don't think we're wrong. His parents have defended him throughout all of this. His mum is like, the lawyers coerced him into confessing. And she even went as far as to tell Chris when he confessed, Chris, you didn't do this. Don't confess. Confessing is literally all that saved his life and he did it so chris's parents spoke during his sentencing and they said that they forgave him and it's weird because of course people would be like yes they're his parents and they still love him and we can't judge them

for this but they were allowed to speak at sentencing to give a victim impact statement as paternal grandparents of the two murdered girls but they barely spoke about them the whole statement sounds like they aren't mourning the deaths of those innocent children and their mother at the hands of their son but rather like they're mourning their son for being put in jail for the rest of his life and it just screams to me of a man who has probably never had to face the consequences of his actions but this time he will, because Chris Watts does have a whole new life now. It's just one in which he'll spend the rest of his life behind bars. I was thinking about it and I was like, how can we prove that she didn't do it, that he did catch her trying to kill the girls and he lost it and killed her? I really think the thing that shows that that wasn't

the case is the premeditated texting and arranging to go to the oil field. For me, that is the thing that clinches it as a premeditated murder. Definitely. And I think even if you didn't have that, if you were in the jury and you didn't have the premeditation of the text to the guy Cody Roberts about disposing of, clearly about disposing of the body, even if you didn't have that, all of the texts that Shanann sent, all of the conversations between the two of them, finding out about the affair. I don't think I would still have enough reasonable doubt to not believe that he had done it and that he was lying about this. And this is a Family Annihilator 101 excuse. Have you watched the movie on Netflix, True Story? No. It's about that killer called Chris Longo. It's literally, if you haven't watched it, go watch it, anyone listening. It's so similar to this. He kills his family, kills his wife, he kills his kids. And

then he says that throughout the whole thing, he's like, I can't say who really did it. I can't say, I can't, you know, reveal that. It'll be too, it'll be even worse than me just going to jail for this. And then he's like, fine, I'll tell you. You've pushed me so far. She did it and I lost it and killed her. Fucking lying. He did it. It's just like fine, I'll tell you. You've pushed me so far. She did it and I lost it and killed her. Fucking lying. He did it. It's just like this. I think even if there hadn't been that premeditation, I still wouldn't have believed that she had done it.

But you're right. That is a big, big, big nail in the coffin for Chris. Rightly so. He's a piece of shit. We're hot off the press with this one. I think this is good. Yeah. I really, I wanted to cover this case.

You know, we wanted to wait until the report was released so that we could have all of the documents to read. It's a really heartbreaking story. And I don't know what else to say about it. It's fucking unbelievably tragic. But he's in the right place now. It's horrifying. I didn't get around to like sort of looking into this in enough detail. But so many love letters he's getting.

Oh, weird. What the fuck is wrong with these women? What is wrong with these women? You're sick. Stop it. He's fucking disgusting. And they're sending him love letters. I don't know. What can you say?

Yeah, we won't say anything else about it. Come and follow us on social media at Red Handed, the pod on Twitter and Instagram. We've also got a Facebook group. And if you would like to support the show, you can do that at patreon.com forward slash redhanded. And here are some people who already have. We have Linea Sideguard, Charlotte Coleman,

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Atasjot Atasiot. It was a really hard bunch. That was a hard bunch. I feel a bit tongue-tied now. Thanks very much, guys. Like, honestly, you're amazing. And, yeah, we will see you next week. See you next week.

Bye. Bye. You don't believe in ghosts? I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either, until I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey.

I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness, and inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more. Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

I'm Jake Warren, and in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mom's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery Plus. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part,

Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him. This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding, and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.