RedHanded - Episode 83 - Omaima Nelson: "Cannibal" Kitchen

Episode Date: February 28, 2019

At just 23 Omaima Nelson killed her 56 year old husband, Bill. 3 days after the murder police entered the Nelson home and found a nightmare scene; not only had Omaima killed and dismembered Bill, she'd also been cooking his remains...   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hannah.

I'm Saruti. And welcome to Red Handed. We wanted to tell you about a Russian cannibal couple this week. You might have heard about them. It's suspected that they might have eaten up to 30 people. So allegedly, these two stored human remains in their fridge. You can Google the images of them serving a human head on a plate. Initially, the first images you find are pixelated, but if you try hard enough, you can find them. I believe in you. The pair were caught out when construction workers found a mobile phone filled with similar images of human body parts being prepared like usual food and being eaten by the cannibal couple

Natalia Bakshiva and Dmitry Bakshiv. But unfortunately, we couldn't find enough information on these two in English to be able to write a proper episode. All we could find was the same statement over and over again. It was genuinely like one article was released from Russia and every newspaper in Britain and America just regurgitated that information exactly. It's because the Russians are so busy pretending like this didn't happen though. They don't have cannibals. No serial killers, no cannibals. That's a capitalism problem. Absolutely. They're like running a secret cannibal food blog. They're like taking pictures of everything that they're eating. It's so disgusting. Like if it's real, which I suspect that it is real, it's all just like a head on a plate surrounded by like lettuce

and onions and things like this. Like they're trying to present it and taking pictures of it. The fact that there's only one article and very limited information, I feel like they're trying to put a bit of a censorship thing on it, not laying it out and just saying it didn't happen. Oh, I agree. It would be much easier for us if they did actually have a cannibal food blog. I wonder if there's like a satirical cannibal food blog. There must be. Let's start one if not. Let's start one if there's not. We always do this. All right. Put it on the pile.

Let's take on even more work. Just punch me in the face, honestly. I just can't stop. I'll look into the cannibal food blog. But don't worry, because we might have not been able to find enough information in English to write an episode, but we have put our Russian consultant Katya on the case. And hopefully she will be able to dig up some information for us that's not made it to the Western press. so stay tuned you've said her name now she's gonna get she's gonna get got by the russians there's quite a lot of russian cat ears don't say her surname i'm incapable of saying her surname so that's fine that's how i keep her safe never learning how to pronounce her name

properly massive ignorance that's how i keep you safe so we might not be able to bring you the russian cannibal couple this week maybe in the future but we have actually managed to find a pretty similar case so strap in and put down your sandwich because this is definitely a no eating episode we didn't want to deprive you of a body bits in the fridge story so So here we are. In Costa Mesa, Orange County, California, Jose Esquival was asleep in his apartment on the morning of the 1st of December 1991. Jose was awoken that morning by loud banging at his door. It was about 9am and for Jose that was way too early to be up and about. So he peeked out of the window and saw a red Corvette outside his house that he didn't recognise.

Whoever that car belonged to, Jose thought that he didn't know them. So he just ignored the banging, hoping that the red Corvette owner would give up and leave him alone. And eventually the 9am door knocker did leave Jose alone, so we went about his day not giving it a second thought. But the door knocker returned in their red Corvette somewhere between 1pm and 1.30pm and they found Jose's door to be open. So they just walked right into his apartment and when he saw them, Jose realised that he did know the door knocker with the red Corvette. It was his ex-girlfriend, 23-year-old Omaima Nelson. And when your ex is banging on your door at nine o'clock in the morning,

nothing good is going to happen next. Absolutely not. Bad news. That makes me feel quite unwell. Yeah, me too. I thought of that. I don't think I can imagine a more nightmare situation, honestly. Than your ex walking through your door.

Yeah, just walking straight into my house. Unannounced. That might be the scariest thing we say in this entire episode. Showing up at nine o'clock in the morning when you haven't even got ready. You're in your pyjamas because you've been asleep. God, no. Yeah. No, no, no, no. And it was bad news as Jose very quickly found out. Amima was very clearly upset. She'd been crying and her arms and breasts displayed visible signs of injury. Jose and Amima had only gone out together very briefly, about a year before. Amima was married now to a 56-year-old man called Bill Nelson, so Jose was really surprised to see her.

He was even more surprised when she told him why she was there. The hysterical Amima told Jose that Bill Nelson, her husband, had attacked her, tied her up, raped her, and she'd managed to escape. But in self-defence, she had hit her husband over the head with a lamp and stabbed him in the neck with a pair of scissors. Bill had died as a result of these injuries and now a mimer needed Jose's help to get rid of the body. And she gets quite specific about her body disposal because she tells Jose that she needs his help to get rid of Bill's head, or at the very least, pull out Bill's teeth so that he couldn't be identified via his dental records. And that is the first indicator you will

get in this case, that a mimer knows what she is doing. She's already thinking about dental records after a self-defense, she says. And also, she really knows what she's doing as well in the sense of she turns up and she's like, that Jose guy. I know. When you're like scrolling back through your phone and you're like, who can I text when I'm feeling a little bit like I need to go out for a drink or I need to dispose of a body. It's like, can you help me get rid of Bill's body? By the look on your face, you don't seem totally into it. How about just his head? Can I start you off with the head?

How about just his teeth? No. Teeth? Do I have a take up with some teeth? How about just the wisdom teeth? He needed them done anyway. So she tries to bribe Jose to pull out her husband's teeth with two motorbikes that belonged to her late husband

and $75,000 that she said she had in a safe. And she offered both of these things to Jose in return for his help. And Jose, at this point, agreed to help his ex-girlfriend with her frantic body disposal plan. He told her to go and wait in her car while he fetched his truck. Again, she knew, man, she had an ex-boyfriend with a truck. It's what everyone needs. I'll just go on a few hinge dates with one guy just because he's got a truck and then that counts as an ex, kind of. But the thing is, Jose had no intention of pulling Bill Nelson's teeth out. Because once Omaima's back was turned, he ran off to the nearest payphone and called the police. When the police

arrived, they managed to catch up with Omaima while she was waiting for Jose to arrive back with his truck, which obviously he never did. Police officer Frank Rudisil was one of the team who initially interviewed Omaima, and he said that she was cooperative and he noted her visible injuries. But when questioned, Omaima denied Jose's story that she had killed her husband. She told officers that her husband was not actually dead, but just away on a business trip in Florida. And she had no way of contacting him. So weird. She's just like, he is alive. I promise. I just can't prove it. I know. I mean, I guess like the 90s, is it just easy to not be able to get in touch with people? I suppose so to a certain extent. But if he was on a business trip, she would have known the hotel he was staying in and that hotel would have had a phone.

This is true. So basically, the problem is at this point, she would have known the hotel he was staying in and that hotel would have had a phone. This is true. So basically the problem is at this point, she's like, he's definitely alive. I definitely didn't kill him. He's in Florida. But I just can't prove to you that he's still alive. So as cooperative and relatively calm as Omaima seemed, the police were not convinced by her story. And the Costa Mesa cops were not the only people to be suspicious of Amima Nelson. Amima was born in Egypt in a small farming village. Her father was very violent

and her parents divorced because of it when Amima was still quite young. Amima's mum took Amima away from her abusive father and they moved to Cairo where they lived in the City of the Dead, which is also known as the Cairo Necropolis because it holds about a million final resting places. I've seen pictures of it. It's houses full of people in between 20 headstones just outside and there are kids just skipping between gravestones. The City of the Dead has been home to the deceased since the 7th century. It was built during the conquest of Egypt, but now it's a slum in which the dead and the living exist side by side. About 500,000 people live there today, and many more are still there, but obviously not living anymore. When Amima reached 18 in 1986, she met a Texan man

who was in Egypt on business. He worked in oil. The two started a relationship, and as soon as her family found out, they insisted that Omaima had to marry her mysterious oil man. Omaima was very on board with this plan. She was no longer a virgin, so she was pretty sure that she wouldn't be able to ever marry a Muslim man. And besides, marrying her Texas man meant she had a ticket straight out of the necropolis and onto the freedom of America. But married bliss was short-lived. The Texan oil man divorced Omaima before the year was out. So she was in a strange country on her own. Her English wasn't great yet, and she was still only a teenager.

And the thing is, you can't read anything about Omaima Nelson without coming across how beautiful she was. It's like mentioned in every single article and every single documentary, anything you read about her. She's so beautiful. And exotic. That's the other thing they say. I literally hate it when people call me exotic. I think people say it like they think it's a compliment and it's not derogatory. I find it embarrassing. Stop it. Stop saying that. And the thing is, Omaima was, she was like a really attractive woman. She was beautiful. You know, she got a few modeling gigs in the States, apparently, alongside nannying and working in bars in her

post-Texan oilman years. But the thing is, as attractive as she was and as beautiful as she was, none of the pictures that you see of Am Maima Nelson look like they're particularly professionally taken so I don't think like her modeling career can have been a particularly lucrative or impressive one yeah it's weird like everything you read about her is like oh gorgeous exotic model from Egypt like blah blah blah and I get it it's clickbait I understand why they're doing it but she doesn't even have a headshot that I could find so what what was she going into castings with the pictures that you see in the documentaries is her in a bikini posing on a bed so it's kind of like someone's gone I've got a camera do you want to come to my flat I'm a photographer I'm just totally not convinced that people who scout for models are just hanging out

asking random people to be like come to my house and let me take photos of you which is very much what this looked like. Yeah, exactly. Exactly that. And actually, if anyone says, I'm a model agent, and they immediately say, please come to my house, say no. Run. Run as fast as you can. So if we assume that her modeling career hadn't particularly taken off, it seems that to supplement her income and to find somewhere to live, a mimer picked up men in bars and tended to

initiate pretty serious relationships with them very quickly. But the thing is that none of these relationships ever seemed to last. And Amima bounced from relationship to relationship for a few years. And she didn't stay totally out of trouble with the law during these years either. She was caught shoplifting numerous times. And this is such a bizarre part of the story. and i think it gives you a good level of insight into like her behavior yeah i think because because once in 1990 a mimer was approached by two female security guards in the mall and asked to empty her bag at this point a mimer flew into a seething rage and a mimer bit one of the security guards so hard on the breast that it almost totally came off.

Bit of a weird move that, isn't it? Just bite your boob off. I don't think that would be my go-to. I mean, weird's a word. I think the word I'd use is absolutely horrifying. Like, fucking hell. It hurts if you just accidentally like bang into something, let alone if someone tries to bite it off and the other guard didn't get off lightly either because amima grabbed that guard so hard in the crotch that she fell immediately to the ground how hard you have to grab a woman in the crotch that she falls to the ground pretty fucking hard i think it's not like we've got no we haven't got stuff on the outside my god it's horrifying yeah if you get kicked in the fanny though that does really hurt.

Yeah I also feel like Americans say fanny they mean like arse. Sorry yeah I am talking about my genitals. Yeah that's what we mean in Britain by fanny which I never say that word I feel so weird saying it. I think I genuinely only say it on this show. I think you do I never hear you say it in real life. Because all we talk about is vaginas. Constantly. Oh, there's a lot more vagina chat in this week's episode. So hold on to your hats, your vagina hats. Anyway. So a mimer, obviously, after this little attack, was convicted of shoplifting and battery and actually went to prison for a few months as well.

It all seems to be stemming from, like, rage and quite, like, indiscriminate rage. Oh, yeah. She's not like Eileen Wuornos, you know, where she's like, I'm killing men because they are evil. She's just like, whoever fucks with me, I'm going to fucking kill you. It's safe to say that Amima could handle herself.

By October 1991, Amima had bounced her way to Orange County, California, where she met Bill Nelson, another older Texan man with a big personality. And I kind of imagine him like the cowboy from The Simpsons. He wore red cowboy boots, he drove a red Corvette, and he loved big belt buckles. He also claimed to own a cattle ranch, and he had five kids and 17 grandchildren. I'm out that door. My opinion aside, Omaima thought she had hit the jackpot. There are two ways you can look at Omaima. Either she's a lost soul in a strange country who just wanted someone to look after her, or she's a gold digger and you can make up

your own minds at the end of the show. I kind of feel like you can be sort of both of those things. And I kind of think that she is. Anyone who's listened to the show. I kind of feel like you can be sort of both of those things. And I kind of think that she is. Anyone who's listened to the show for any amount of time knows that I am massively obsessed with that show, 90 Day Fiancé. There is a lot of this kind of question watching that show. And I think that, in my opinion anyway, that love and relationships, to some people at least, can just be like a commodity and my man had something that these men like the rich texan wanted and they had something that she wanted she has looks and she's like what she's so young she's like 23 at this point he's old but he's rich and i kind of just

feel like as long as those two people are okay with it then maybe it's fine to be a gold digger yeah i suppose i don't know i don't know either probably not what she goes on to do but up until As long as those two people are okay with it, then maybe it's fine to be a gold digger. Yeah, I suppose. I don't know. I don't know either. Probably not what she goes on to do, but up until now. Wait till the end. Make your mind up. Yeah.

After meeting Bill in a bar in October 1991, Bill Nelson and a mimer appeared to be totally smitten with each other. After just four weeks of dating, Bill drove a mimer down to Texas and Arkansas to meet his extensive family. That is my worst nightmare. Four weeks? Horrifying. I couldn't. I couldn't do it.

But they were fine, apparently, and they stopped off on the way to Texas in Phoenix to get married. Just like a roadside wedding. But Amima was not a hit with Bill's family. She was 30 years younger than him and it didn't go over well at all. After the family visit, the newlyweds drove back up to California just in time for Thanksgiving. Bill spoke to one of his daughters on the phone on Thanksgiving morning, which in 1991 fell on the 28th of November. Bill told his daughter that all was well and they just had loads of food to eat.

Amima and Bill spent Thanksgiving just with each other. Now we have to skip forward to three days after Thanksgiving 1991, the day Amima turned up unannounced at her ex-boyfriend Jose's house and was questioned by police. After they finished their initial questions, police officers knew that something didn't add up, so they went out and checked a mimer's car. In the front seat of the red Corvette was a black bin bag, just sitting there in the California sun. Officers opened the bag and found that it was full of organs.

And not church organs, in case you're wondering. We're talking proper fucking entrails the stuff you see like hanging up in tripe shops in Italy with water running over them in the windows innards I was so shocked the first time I saw it in Italy like they just have these tripe shops and just like the inside of a cow is just hanging and you can see it's all like ridged from like where the all the nutrients are absorbed in the intestines. And you have to keep it wet in case it dries out. So they just run water over it constantly in the window of the shop. Why does it need to be on show?

Because it's not a particularly nice bit of window dressing. So you know what they sell in there? If you're a tourist, you're like, oh, I know. I know I don't want to go in there. Oh, I see. I feel like if you're going to kill an animal, eat the whole thing, including the tripe. But does it need to be in the window? Maybe. Can't you just have a sign that says we sell tripe? But I'm also trying very hard to transition into becoming a vegetarian. You're doing quite well, I think. Thank you. You've been supportive. You shared that vegetarian sharing board with me the other day. Yeah, I did. I know that I should be a vegetarian to be friends with the planet, but I struggle with it. It's hard. Maybe we'll just go

look at some tripe shops and it'll put you off. Maybe that'll put me off. Aversion therapy. Like when you threw your McDonald's all over the floor the other night and text me about it. Thank you so much for bringing that up. The most embarrassing moment of my life. I fell asleep. I woke up and I woke up to that text on my phone. It was awful. I was coming home from the pub and I was like, oh, well done. You didn't get absolutely smashed. Let's get McDonald's on the way home. So I walked the long way home so I could walk past McDonald's. I love your pep talks to yourself. My internal monologue is just a pep talk. Setting quite a low bar for accomplishments for yourself

to be fair. I'm very reward driven so I was like oh great I'll go to McDonald's. Went into McDonald's ordered so much food that I felt compelled to buy two drinks to make it look like it wasn't all just for my fat self. Get it take it outside and immediately trip over my shoelace and throw it into the road. Not even just on the floor into the road and there are these two guys there that were trying to help me and I was so embarrassed that I was just like please please please leave me alone did you just leave it in the road or did you pick it all up I think they might have picked it up but it's a really busy road like you can't just go and like no it was like half past 11 on a Saturday night I couldn't stand in the middle of the road and pick up my cheeseburgers no no this is true this

is true oh mate it was so embarrassing and there's this like weird bar opposite the mcdonald's and the doorman obviously saw the whole thing and were pissing themselves laughing at me and i had to walk past them to get home and they were like oh you're all right love yeah fuck off i was never here well think you didn't eat it in the end i didn't eat it but i did fucking pay for it didn't no you did and those cows did die for it oh thanks that makes me feel even worse i'm sorry cows no no i'm not going to be preachy i'm i'm sorry that was a horrible that was a horrible moment for you anyway therapy done session closed back to this so the thing is they open up this bag in a mimer's car and it is um, like we said, it's full of fucking organs, like bloody intestines,

just sitting there in this bin bag. And inside, when they have a bit of a dig around, they also found a set of lungs. And guess what? These lungs had black carbon deposits on them, which if you were paying attention in GCSE science, is a side effect from smoking cigarettes. Smoking cigarettes is a distinctly human habit. So the police were fairly certain that the bin bag of organs sat in the red Corvette didn't belong to, like, some unfortunate pig, but did in fact belong to a person. And given the story that Amima had told Jose Esquivel that afternoon,

officers were pretty certain that those entrails belonged to one Bill Nelson. Now, a forensics team was sent over to the apartment where a mimer lived with her husband and they found one big mess. Bill amongst other things was a computer programmer and their house was crammed with computers and computer boxes and honestly you can find pictures online of this house like you actually can't see the floor. It looks like an episode of Hoarders. But other than it looking a bit of a state, to start with, the police didn't find anything suspicious in their sweep of the house. A mimer was taken down to the police station where she was questioned for four hours and she didn't sit down once. She just paces the room and rambles.

And as she's rambling, she referred to herself in the third person loads she also told police that she often hallucinated about women covered in blood and that she was descended from ancient egyptians who could talk to her and act through her and some people make quite a big deal out of this thinking oh it's so ridiculous she thinks she's descended from ancient egyptians she is actually egyptian like i don't think that's that weird for her to be like, I am descended from it. Like, she probably is. I don't know why people pick up on that as being weird. I mean, maybe she, I don't know, does she say anything specific about like being descended from like Cleopatra or Ramses? Like, because then that's a bit like, yeah, everyone is always

either a reincarnation of Cleopatra or descended from her. Yeah, it's never like I worked in the mines. Yeah, it's never like I was just one of those many peasants who died of the plague. Which statistically speaking, you're much more likely to be one of those than you are to be Cleopatra. To be like reincarnation of Cleopatra or a reincarnation of Anastasia. It's like, probably not, but okay. Well, we don't know if Anastasia's dead, so. Oh, she's dead. I killed her.

I didn't mean it to sound so sinister. She's definitely dead. So we're not saying that she was actually communicating with Ramses III, but it does seem like there are slightly more important things in this case to partake issue with. The organs in the car being one of them. She blamed these organs on Bill Nelson. She told the police that she thought Bill had killed someone. She did not explain why she was driving that bag of insides around in the

car. That is quite hard to explain though. Yeah, if you hate your husband so much, he beats you, he rapes you and he kills someone, why are you disposing of the body for him? Yeah. But the point Amima was trying to make was that her husband Bill Nelson was no angel. And she was right. Bill had served four years on the inside for drug trafficking. Bill was a pilot and he got caught with a plane full of marijuana in Mexico. Go big or go home, I think, with drug smuggling. Just if you're going to do it. Really? That's your fucking advice for drug smugglers. Go big or go home. Go big or go to prison. No, it's go big and definitely go to prison and go go smaller maybe you'll get off with just personal use but go big yeah that's true go to jail

yeah go big get away with it then go home that's my advice that's an important caveat to remember when you're talking about this and according to a mimer this drugs charge was the least of bill nelson sins she told officers that he was violent that he would tie her up and rape her. And sometimes these sadistic sessions would go on for days at a time. But the police, still at this point, weren't sure what to think of a mimer. She was telling a sad story, but she still had a bag of organs in her car. So police pressed a mimer for details of what had happened on Thanksgiving. She told them that Bill had tied her up, raped her, and sat on her chest so she couldn't breathe. But when

asked how Amima managed to escape being tied up and what had happened to Bill, Amima said, I don't believe he's dead. He can't be. And I don't know, I think early on, like very early on with her saying these kind of things and all of the rambling, the talking in third person, she does start to seem very much like her thoughts aren't particularly organized. Yeah, I agree. So back at Amima and Bill's apartment, Frank Ridicil and the other police officers spotted some blood on the doorknob and even more on the carpet. Detective Robert Phillips later described that Costa Mesa apartment to be the most gruesome crime scene he had ever encountered. Because the police spotted some more bin bags, just like the one they found in the red car. Some were just lying around and some were inside

suitcases, but all of them were totally saturated with fluids and flesh. Inside the soggy flesh bags were more body parts, a broken lamp, an iron, and that isn't even the worst of it. In the kitchen, the police found a deep fat fryer, and inside it, they found a pair of severed hands floating in the oil. You can just imagine it, can't you? Just like the fingertips poking up over the... I've been thinking about this a lot. And if that wasn't bad enough, what was later discovered to be meat from a human hip was found to be put with leftover Thanksgiving turkey meat

in the fridge, in what seems to have been an attempt to disguise it. I find this crime scene very confusing because it's like some of it's just like, oh, we'll chop the body up, we'll leave it in these bin bags, there's blood everywhere, there's bits of confusing because it's like some of it's just like, oh, we'll chop the body up. We'll leave it in these bin bags. There's blood everywhere. There's bits of organs. There's like severed hands in a deep fat fryer. This bit hit me. Let's stick it on the turkey and leave it in the fridge.

We've got to hide that. Trying to hide it all in lots of different places. I don't know. It's bizarre. But not very well. It's almost like when you read about all this, it's like she started to hide his body and dispose of his body. And then she was like, oh, this is just too much. I just, I'm in over my head.

There is just no way I can get rid of his body. She gives up. Yeah, she gives up. That's what it sounds like. And I think she probably has a bit of a sense of relief when the police find her. She's like, oh, great. I might be going to jail, but I do not have to clean this up anymore. You don't believe in ghosts?

I get it. Lots of people don't. I didn't either until I came face to face with them. Ever since that moment, hauntings, spirits, and the unexplained have consumed my entire life. I'm Nadine Bailey. I've been a ghost tour guide for the past 20 years. I've taken people along with me into the shadows, uncovering the macabre tales that linger in the darkness, and inside some of the most haunted houses, hospitals, prisons, and more.

Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made, a seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant.

When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near L.A. in 1983, there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Lainey Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder.

Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. I'm Jake Warren, and in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now,

exclusively on Wondery Plus. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him.

This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me. And it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. There's even more horror waiting for these poor investigators because in the freezer next to just some carrots and hot dogs and peas, there was a human head. And this head, like the hands, had also been given the deep fat fryer treatment. And it was so severely burned that although it may not have looked like Bill Nelson after it had been deep

fried, the police were pretty sure that they were dealing with the dismembered bits of Bill the Texan pilot and drug smuggler. When police moved into the bedroom, they saw that the bedposts had been broken. And this fitted in with a mimer's story. Remember, she had told police that Bill had tied her to the bed and raped her. So the police, giving her the benefit of the doubt to a certain extent, I think, started to concoct a theory. Perhaps a mimer was tied to the bed, giving her the benefit of the doubt to a certain extent, I think, started to concoct a theory. Perhaps Amima was tied to the bed, raped by her husband, and then broke free to hit him in the head with the now broken lamp

and the iron found in the bin bags. This theory quickly fell by the wayside as they took the sheets off the bed and found the mattress to be soaked with blood. And Amima's story started to look even less likely when a pair of legs were discovered in one of the bin bags, and the ankles of those legs had rings of reddish-black bruises around their ankles, consistent with someone who had been tied up. So maybe it wasn't Amima that had been tied to the bed after all. With her story falling apart around her, a mimer was taken to the nearest hospital for a sexual assault examination

and for the injuries on her arms and breasts to be dealt with. And that report found no evidence of sexual assault. But I think what they mean by that is they found no vaginal or anal tearing to be present. And this is 1991. Even today, a rape kit needs to be taken no more than 72 hours after the assault has occurred, and the results can be offset by taking a shower or brushing your hair. So I'm not sure we can conclusively say that she wasn't raped by Bill Nelson based on that testing. I just don't know. I just didn't find enough, because it's so long

after the event if it happened, like I just don't think that assessment can have been particularly reliable they just didn't find any evidence of her being raped with the resources that they had at the time now a mimer's examination did reveal something though it revealed that none of the injuries on her hands and breasts were determined to be defensive wounds they were more consistent it seemed with the wounds that someone may sustain when dismembering a human body which is a very specific activity to be able to attribute wounds to i watched an interview with one of the police officers as he talks about it and i don't think it's like they had a tick list of like if you have a dismembered a human body you will have these injuries i think what he means is like she'd very clearly undertaken a large physical task that had gone on for a long time.

And I'm pretty sure that you can say that dismembering a human body is that. Is that absolutely. I mean, it's a marathon. It's not a sprint. And also, Amima is petite. She's a small lady. And Bill Nelson is not petite. He's a big guy. It probably looked like maybe she was a bit worse for wear after having tried to hack up a giant man in her house over the course of three days. I think that's a fair assessment. Even if you can't attribute it to like a specific thing, it's like you said, she's undergone clearly a very strenuous activity. But I think it is probably quite easy to determine whether wounds are or are not defensive wounds. Like I think they're quite obvious sometimes.

Yeah, that's the key thing is that they're not defensive there from something else. So after the hospital, Omaima was taken back to the police station, where to everyone's amazement, she quietly said, I have a confession now, and have a confession she did. Omaima told the investigators that she had killed Bill Nelson. She had killed and attacked him and she had no other choice than to do so to save her own life. Omaima claimed to remember nothing after hitting Bill with the lamp. The next thing she said she remembered was waking up and finding Bill's body in bits in bin bags all

around her. She claimed to have heard voices saying quote something inside me told me I had to do it like demons. A mimer then asked to see a psychiatrist and was placed under arrest on suspicion of the murder of her husband and transferred to jail where her bail was set at $250,000. Meanwhile all the bits of body had been collected by the forensics team, and the medical examiner confirmed that all of the parts were from the same person. And that person was, as suspected, Bill Nelson. The head in the freezer had sustained 25 or more blows to the skull. And what was even more concerning to the coroner was how well Bill's body had been dismembered. Almost too well

for a first time. I think that's also quite an interesting bit of the story because like to chop up an entire body and for a coroner to say it was done quote well it's quite not like a everyday bit of knowledge to know how to disjoint and like dismember a human. No I don't think I'd know where to start. I think I could get through the flesh, but once I got to the bones, I'd be in trouble, I think. Yeah, even knowing where to cut. I mean, having the like fortitude to be able to do it, but also knowing exactly where to cut

that somebody would be like, it was well done. And I think also maybe he means it's well done that it was, she's just gone for it, you know? And he was in like segments. He hadn't just been hacked to pieces. That's quite an achievement for somebody who, you know, claiming this is like segments he hadn't just been hacked to pieces that's quite that's quite an achievement for somebody who you know claiming this is their first time ever having done it yeah and he's as we said a big guy when he was alive bill nelson was 230 pounds so that's

16 stone four or for our european friends 104 kilos his dismembered parts were arranged and it was discovered that 85 pounds, so that's six stone or 38.5 kilos of Bill Nelson, were missing, including his genitals. And you've got to remember, this was the early 90s. Jeffrey Dahmer had been arrested in the summer of 91. Cannibalism was at the forefront of everyone's minds. So it's not surprising that when they couldn't find all of Bill, investigators questioned whether a mimer had eaten bits of him. She had deep fried him after all, so could the hands in the fryer be an attempt to destroy his fingerprints, or was she just saving them for later?

It's a really weird part of the case, that she deep fries the head and deep fries the hands and then still keeps them. I can understand why when there's that much missing, like over 30 kilos of his body, including his genitals, are missing. They walk into a kitchen where there's fucking hip meat mixed in with the turkey meat, and a head that's been deep fried, hands in a deep fat fryer. Yeah, I think it's natural that they jump to the conclusion that she's been eating him. Oh, for sure. And what's even weirder than that? Interviews with the Nelson's neighbours revealed that since Thanksgiving, they heard the garbage disposal unit in the Nelson's apartment going almost non-stop for two days until it broke.

Garbage disposals are so loud, I would be so annoyed. If I heard it going for two days, I would call the police, just because of my own annoyance, not because I think anything's going wrong. You've got to be doing something untoward if you're running your garbage disposal for two days. Getting rid of 30 kilos of a man you murdered is what's happened here. So, Amima was given the psychiatrist that she asked for in the form of Dr. David Scheffner. And during their first assessment session, Amima embellished her confession in a pretty terrifying way. And I think that this bit of the story that she like embellishes and adds on to her original confession,

if it's true, fucking hell, if it's not, why does she say it? Because she told Dr. Scheffner that after she had hit Bill with the lamp, it had had broken so she kept hitting him with the electric iron then she stabbed bill in the neck with a pair of scissors and then didn't show up with the bag of insides at Jose's house for another three days after that. So yeah, it feels like during those three days between Thanksgiving and the day she turns up at Jose's house, she's desperately trying to get rid of him down the garbage disposal. Now, this is the bit of embellishment that Amima adds because she continued. After she'd murdered Bill, she put on a red dress with matching shoes and lipstick and then she had cooked her husband's ribs with barbecue sauce and eaten them. And she added, quite unnecessarily I think really, don't say this if you're ever

under suspicion of murder, she added that nothing tasted as sweet as her husband. So dramatic, isn't it? It is. The red dress, the red shoes, the red lipstick, cooking up some ribs. Yeah, it's all been shot in black and white, but only her lips are red. Oh, God. And it's just like her wiggling around a kitchen cooking up some ribs, but it's actually her husband's ribs. Let's make a short film.

Oh, and she sat at the table licking barbecue sauce off her fingers. Oh, gross. So after hearing this, Scheffner stated that he had never dealt with a case so bizarre and diagnosed Mrs. Nelson as psychotic. Forensic psychologist Dr. Nancy Kayser-Boyd has a slightly softer analysis. Kayser-Boyd found a mimer to be soft-spoken and childlike, but definitely deeply disturbed. According to Case of Boyd, Bill Nelson would degrade Amima constantly, rape her, and he threatened to bury her in the desert

during their road trip. This abuse from Bill was the final straw when it was placed on top of a lifetime of abuse. And the thing is, though, the abuse from Bill, we don't definitely know whether this happened, do we? Like, there's no corroborators for this. She says it and Dr. Kasey Boyd is like, yes, I believe her, that she was abused by this man. But there's no one who can corroborate this and say that Bill was abusive to a mimer. We just don't know. And this is

another thing that we get from Nancy Kasey Boyd that maybe we can't 100% confirm. But according to Nancy Kaser Boyd, a mimer had been subjected to female genital mutilation in Egypt, where it's referred to as initiation or female circumcision, and it's still common practice. FGM is far too important an issue for us to just skip over. It's the practice of forcibly removing parts of the female genitalia. And the age this happens to girls varies. Sometimes they're babies or toddlers and sometimes they're almost in their teens or they could be any age in between. Girls who are subjected to FGM are usually taken by female family members to someone who will cut them. Or the female family members will cut their own children.

And when I used to work with child protection know, child protection groups to produce events for, you know, safeguarding professionals to hear about stuff like this, like I said, this was hugely on the rise, especially in places like London and Birmingham and Manchester, and more and more people wanted to hear about what this was. And I sat through hours and hours and hours and hours of workshops and lectures of professionals talking about this. I've seen lots of pictures. It is horrific. And we're not skirting around what we're actually talking about with FGM there are four types of FGM there's type one and this is known as a clitoridectomy it's partial or total

removal of the clitoris and or its hood type two is called excision the clitoris and labia minora are partially or totally removed. This can include excision of the labia majora as well. Type 3 is the most severe. It is known as infibulation and this procedure consists of narrowing the vaginal orifice with a creation of a covering seal by cutting the labia minora and or the labia majora with or without removal of the clitoris. The joining of the wound edges consists of stitching or holding the cut areas together for a certain period of time. Essentially, to cut the wounds, push them together and allow your body to heal. Essentially, closing up the vagina. And in some cases, girls' legs are bound

together to create a covering seal. And a small opening, sometimes as small as the size of a matchstick, is all that's left for urine and menstrual blood to escape. And the seal can be opened either through penetrative sexual intercourse or surgery. And yeah, women who go through this, like so many of them, the pain, infections, like so many girls die after having things like this done. And even if, imagine the pain of then, when they are girls die after having things like this done. And even if imagine the pain of then when they are older, getting married and then having sexual intercourse, like basically tearing open that wound. And some of them, you know, if they when they do get

pregnant, go on to have children, the complications that arise during childbirth, like this is a horrific practice. And then you finally have something called type four. And this type covers essentially all other procedures to the genitalia of women for non-medical purposes so it could be like a piercing or scraping or cauterization or I don't know I actually watched like a documentary maybe like channel 4 or something about like designer vaginas oh yeah the perfect vagina I think I've seen the exact same one my god I was like what the fuck are you doing stop it for sake. So technically, if you get a labiaplasty, that is type 4 FGM. FGM has been illegal in the UK since 1986,

and it's just this year been made illegal by federal law in the United States, but it still happens. The arguments used by its supporters are not dissimilar to the arguments used by people who support male circumcision. What they'll say is it's cultural, it's clean, and it's aesthetically more acceptable. But please be aware that I'm not saying FGM is the same as male circumcision. It's not. The massive difference is that female circumcision is an attempt to suppress female sexual desire, and in some cases, it makes sex too painful to enjoy at all. So it's a device of oppression. That's what we're talking about. Absolutely. It's very much so that if you've had FGM done on you, you're much less likely to cheat or to engage in premarital sex or extramarital sex because it's so horrific you wouldn't possibly enjoy it. That's what it's there for, right? Rather than chaining you to the floor, we'll cut your clitoris off so that you don't ever want to have sex with anyone else anyway. And we're not going to tell you what to think,

but if you want to start asking yourself some pretty serious questions about what we're talking about, I'd advise you to watch American Circumcision. It's a documentary on Netflix, and you can also go to deeofeve.com, which is run by the Daughters of Eve, who are a non-profit who can tell you all you need to know about FGM and how people are working to stop it.

But if you do watch that documentary, you will come across Fumbi Amadou, who argues that the term female genital mutilation is, quote, offensive, divisive, demeaning, inflammatory, and absolutely unnecessary. So she argues that her circumcision that she underwent in Sierra Leone, age 22, didn't affect her negatively at all. She actually says it improved her sex life and in her culture that it's celebrated. So she has quite a unique position in that she's Sierra Leone American. She was at college in America when she was asked by her mother to go to Sierra Leone with her younger sister,

who was eight years old, to go through this initiation process, is what she called it. And so she's quite unique in that she was sexually active before and after the procedure, which is obviously very, very rare. But I just, I can't with her. Like when talking about type three, the most severe in interviews, people will bring that up and she's like, oh, but that's only 10%. Still hundreds of thousands of women, only 10%.

And even the type one, I'm sorry, why? sorry why well we know why we just talked about why well that's the other thing she says there was like a surgeon in america went to prison for performing type one on girls and she went on some tv program to talk about it and she said like oh but like type one it was type 1a that's just a nick it's barely anything and i'm like well why are they doing it then if it's so inconsequential? You have your culture, you have your beliefs, whatever. But I think the minute they start to infringe on people's choice, because she talks a lot about choice, but majority of women and girls that go through this don't have a choice. They don't have a choice about it. And you can't, when it comes to something that's abusive.

You can't consent to choice. Yeah. You can't actively, with all of the knowledge, make up your mind. When it's something like this, no one is offering you this is option A, this is option B, this is option C. You can choose. It's either you can do it and be part of this family and this community and it's culturally correct or you cannot do it and we'll either make you do it or you'll be shunned. That's not a choice in my opinion. And also, your culture and your beliefs and all of that aside, the minute they start to infringe on people's freedoms and welfare and well-being, psychologically, emotionally, sexually, physically, it is a moot point and it's absolutely, it doesn't win. You don't get to win. You don't just get to say, this is my culture, therefore it's right. No. Otherwise, we would still be doing all sorts of barbaric things. The reason that this is pertinent to the case that we're talking about today is that according to Nancy K. Saboyd, Amima Nelson had undergone the most severe form of FGM, type 3. So that meant for her, sex was very painful

and that she probably wouldn't have enjoyed it at all. The other thing that Dr. Nancy K. Saboyd discovered during her time with Amima was that according to Egyptian folklore, a person who is not in one piece cannot go into the afterlife. So according to Nancy Kaseboyd, Amima had dismembered Bill Nelson so that she wouldn't have to run into him on the other side when she eventually died. So I guess what she's doing here is saying, yeah, the abuse that she suffered as a child, the FGM,

most horrific form, the sexual abuse. Then Bill Nelson piles his abuse on top of that. She snaps and she kills him. And then on top of that, well, why does she dismember him then? She dismembers him because of her beliefs, because of this folklore. She's doing it so she never has to run into Bill Nelson in the afterlife. So I guess if you believe that, it does make sense. If you believe that, it does make sense. If you believe that, Amima believed that. And I guess it's like, what, how you shouldn't be cremated if you're a Catholic, right?

Yeah, exactly. Like if you're, maybe the Pope's changed his mind on this now, but certainly when I was growing up, if your body is not in one piece, if you are cremated, you can't, because the whole idea is that your body is waiting for you in heaven. So if it's burnt, it's not going to be there. Now let's get to the trial of Omaima Nelson. A year and a day after police found Bill Nelson's head in his own freezer, the trial of Omaima Nelson began, and she was charged with murder in the first degree.

And the prosecution thought that they pretty much had a slam dunk. Defense attorney Thomas Mooney put up one hell of a fight. He painted Omaima as a tortured soul, who after sustaining a lifetime of abuse and a violent sexual relationship with Bill Nelson, had pushed her to murder in self-defense. He and Dr. Nancy K. Saboyd argued that Amima had PTSD, and to cope with her trauma she retreated into a fantasy world where her ancient ancestors ruled and told her what to do.

And this psychosis triggered the episode in which she had murdered and dismembered her husband. In court, Omaima denied eating any part of Bill Nelson, despite having confessed to it to Dr. Scheffner the year before. And this is the thing, what she said to Dr. Scheffner was so specific. It's that red dress, the red lips, the red shoes, the ribs. It's all so specific and so brazen and depraved. You do have to wonder, I don't know, did she eat him? Or back then when she said it and asked for a psychiatrist, was she just trying to like plan for an insanity plea? I'm not, I'm really not sure. I think, I also think she could have still been in some sort of psychotic state

when she's in that interview and just saying things that aren't true and never happened. Or maybe she did it. Or maybe she was cognizant enough to be like, I need to for an insanity plea but insanity pleas are like so difficult to prove anyway and the whole point of the case is that she's tried to get rid of the bodies which shows that she knows that what she was doing was wrong so there's no way she's getting an insanity plea out of this thing but then she almost stops though trying to get the insanity plea when it comes to trial because she doesn't she's saying I didn't eat him. She said all that stuff to Schaffner like a year ago. Maybe she was trying to put together an insanity plea back then. But again, this woman, she's so young. She's living

in this foreign country. She's killed this guy. I don't know. Can we say that she's with it enough to know, oh, I better act crazy so they don't put me in prison and send me to a psychiatric hospital instead? How aware would she have even been that she might have needed to build an insanity plea? The prosecution team led by Orange County Deputy District Attorney Randy Polowski's case throws the idea of a mimer being an abused woman with no nefarious motives onto very shaky ground with their star witness Robert Hanson who like Bill Nelson was in his 50s and had been in a romantic relationship with Omaima in 1990. Hansen told the court that he and the defendant had lived together until one evening, when Omaima told him that she wanted to tie him up. And thinking that this was

some sort of sexy game, Hansen agreed. But once he was tied up and defenseless, Omaima pulled a gun on him and told him that she would kill him unless he gave her more money. Luckily for him, Robert Hansen managed to struggle free of his bonds, overpower Amima and kick her out of his house, but he was too embarrassed to go to the police. So that testimony tells a very different story of Amima Nelson, not a defenseless victim of abuse, but someone who entered into relationships with older men to take their money and threatened them when they didn't pay up so which one is it or does it even really have to be one or the other i'm not sure it does i don't know i think it there's so many things that could go either way because you could say she chops up the body or was it because of her beliefs like

dr nancy case the boy says i don't know even then she's lucid enough at that point to be like i need to get rid of the body but you could say she comes out of her psychotic spell and then she's like fuck I better get rid of this body I don't know but I think the thing to me is that Robert Hansen this guy said she tied me up and threatened me remember the legs they found at the apartment looked like they had ligature marks on she tied up Bill Nelson she's got form for sure And I do also think that, like, having been a victim of abuse doesn't necessarily mean you never do anything wrong again in your life. No, absolutely not. The question the jury had to answer was one of premeditation.

There was no question that Amima had killed her husband and there was no question that she had dismembered him and attempted to dispose of his body down the garbage disposal and by driving around with a bag of intestines in a red Corvette. But had she planned the murder? And the planning is what separates first and second degree murder. First degree murder is any intentional murder that is willful and premeditated. Second degree murder is any intentional murder with malice aforethought,

but that is not premeditated or planned in advance. And when I first started reading about this, I did think it was this sort of the red mist descends and she didn't plan it. She didn't think about hurting him before that particular incident. But the more I think about Robert Hansen, I think maybe she did plan it. Maybe it went too far. Maybe she didn't mean it to go as far as it did. But if Robert Hansen hadn't have got three, I think she probably would have shot him. I think so. I think it's a really important distinction to make between first degree murder and second

degree murder because it isn't the second degree murder, isn't it? You've not thought about it at all. And it's just like a crime of passion. That would be more like manslaughter where it's happened and you've actually had no malice of forethought or premeditation like you would with first degree or second degree murder and i think in this case it would be more to me that it seems more like second degree murder where it's like she's thought about this there's been malice forethought but it's not been premeditated or planned because she doesn't have an idea for how to get rid of the body yeah that's a good point and the thing

is eventually after 17 days of deliberation the the jury agreed because they convicted Amima Nelson of the murder of Bill Nelson in the second degree on the 12th of January 1993. She was also found guilty of the assault of Robert Hansen. Amima was sentenced to 27 years in prison. And there are some that argue, Dr. Nancy K. Saboyd included, that prison was the wrong place formaima and that she should have been sent to a psychiatric hospital instead. Omaima has never shown any remorse for her crimes and none of her appeals have been granted. Parole hearings rolled around in 2006 and in 2011, but both times Omaima was ruled to be a serious threat to public safety. And also she's never shown any remorse, like just pretend at least because you're never going to get parole unless you show remorse for what you've done and in the 2011 hearing amima represented herself and she insisted still that she had acted in self-defense she said my life was in danger if i

didn't defend my life i would have been dead i'm sorry it happened but i'm glad i lived i'm sorry i dismembered his body i crossed the reality. I saw the blood and I freaked out. I'm not here to justify what I did. I was temporarily insane. Randy Polowski made an appearance at this hearing too, 12 years after he had prosecuted Nelson in 1993. And he made the same arguments that he did then, citing Amima's history of violence and noting that she'd never shown any remorse. During the hearing, Amima added, quote, I swear to God, I did not eat any part of him. I'm not a monster. To which Commissioner Cynthia Fritz asked, what was your purpose in

cooking him? An excellent point that Nelson declined to answer. So Amima hadn't taken part in any prison rehabilitation programs or skill workshops, but she did claim to be a born-again Christian, and she had remarried while she was in prison. Her new husband was in his 70s, and he actually died before the hearing, but that didn't stop a mimer using him in her defense. She claimed her marriage to this 70-year-old man to be evidence that she was no longer a threat to society because the couple enjoyed three-day-long conjugal visits in accommodation, which included dangerous implements, and at no point did she kill him. Why are they allowed to have three day long conjugal visits, which included dangerous implements, is my question. That's what I want to know. She also claimed that her new husband was never afraid that she would stab him to death during these rendezvous, but he's not exactly

around to confirm whether that's true, is he? seems i thought three day long conjugal visits seemed sounded like a really long time but apparently in the states where conjugal visits are allowed which is new york washington connecticut and california they can last up to three days and they can happen as often as once a month isn't that nuts i was really shocked when we read that but then i do also think that um as much as there will be people being like, oh my god, I can't believe like they get PlayStation 3s and they can have three day long conjugal visits and all this. But like, if you're saying that prison is there to rehabilitate people, allowing them to still maintain those relationships with people on the outside is the best way to try and to minimize

the risk of reoffending. I believe that. So yeah, I guess I'm more shocked that it's like people go and have three-day conjugal visits and can actually get it on in like a prison caravan. I'd be all right, I think. If it'd been three weeks, I think I'd be fine. Oh, good. Good for you. Hi, mom. So Amima Nelson won't be getting any more conjugal visits because her husband's dead and she won't be getting another parole hearing until 2026. She'll serve the rest of her sentence in Cowchilla's Central California women's facility and will probably never know if she ate Bill's ribs or not. That is a big unanswered question with this case and it will forever remain. But that is the story of Amima Nelson. Thank you for joining us. And as ever, you can come and follow us on

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