RedHanded - Episode 85 - The Central Park 5

Episode Date: March 14, 2019

In 1989 5 young black and Latino boys from Harlem were accused and convicted of the rape and assault of Trisha Meili, a young white woman. They spent between 5 and 13 years in prison until finally in 2003 their sentences were vacated. As we approach the 30th anniversary of this notorious case join the girls, and their special guest - Tracy Clayton - for an in depth look into a brutal crime, and racially charged social, political and media response that still resonates today.   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So, get this. The Ontario Liberals elected Bonnie Crombie as their new leader. Bonnie who? I just sent you her profile. Her first act as leader, asking donors for a million bucks for her salary. That's excessive. She's a big carbon tax supporter. Oh yeah. Check out her record as mayor. Oh, get out of here. She even increased taxes carbon tax supporter. Oh, yeah. Check out her record as mayor. Oh, get out of here.

She even increased taxes in this economy. Yeah, higher taxes, carbon taxes. She sounds expensive. Bonnie Crombie and the Ontario Liberals. They just don't get it. That'll cost you. A message from the Ontario PC Party. Get ready for Las Vegas-style action at BetMGM,

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BetMGM.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact ConnexOntario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. I'm Hannah I'm Saruti and welcome to a very very special red-handed because today I'm not actually under a duvet in my bedroom in North London I'm in New York City and opposite me is the queen of

podcasting Tracy Clay oh my gosh oh my gosh oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. I'm trying not to squeal and upset people's pets. Hi. Thank you so much for being here. And if you don't know who Tracy is, get out more. But you can also, you can check her out on Strong Black Legends, which is her brand spanking new podcast with Netflix. Yes, Netflix and Strong Black Lead. Follow all of those things.

If you want to hear me do more squealing, that's all. It's just like Tracy meets her favorite people and screams at them. It's so much fun. Please listen. So you can go and check that out. But today, well, we don't know if there's going to be squealing yet. There might be some squealing. Probably will be.

Sorry in advance. We're going to be doing the Central Park Five because I'm in New York, if that's appropriate. And it's also the 30-year anniversary this very year i actually did not realize that wow when netflix are bringing out a new documentary series oh they've been doing really well with documentaries lately i'm not just saying that because they gave me some money do you have a prior affiliation with someone only accidentally but um I've also noticed, see, I'm already going off on a tangent, but British true crime,

I had not paid much attention recently because I was like, I don't know where Stepfordshire and all this stuff is. You know, I don't have any reference points. But they're really freaking good. And so now I'm just like, I'm always on Netflix. Please don't make the two sound too promotional.

Because they actually didn't pay me that much. Perfect. Amazing. Welcome, Netflix, to your show. All right. I think we should probably crack on. Absolutely. Because you guys might be in a studio in New York City hanging out together.

But I am still very much under a duvet in my bedroom. I'm the baller today. Today? As opposed to all the other times where I'm the baller. My headphones just fell off my head as like immediate judgment for saying that I was a ball kid. Instant karma. So it's fine. Karma's quick. Absolutely. All right, let's get going. 30 years ago, on the 19th of April, 1989,

28-year-old investment banker, Tricia Miley, left her house on the Upper East Side of New York City at 8.55pm. Tricia set off on a run around Central Park. She took this route often, but unlike so many times before, Tricia would not make it home that night. The night of the 19th of April would change Tricia Miley's life forever, and it would also change her name. That night, as she was making her way around the park, Trisha was attacked.

She was hit over the head so forcefully that her skull was fractured. She was dragged into the grass off the footpath and raped. Trisha was left for dead in Central Park, and for the next 13 years of her life, she would only be known to the public as the Central Park jogger. And the search for and conviction of her attackers would shake New York City. How did you do that? What do you mean? It was like one take, pretty much.

How do you just read out loud and just sound like that? We've had 18 months of practice. Holy shit. Every week, just knocking them out. I've been doing this for two years and I still can't. Reading out loud is the worst part of what I do. That was amazing. It feels like I'm inside my favorite podcast. Well, you technically are. Oh my gosh, I'm inside my favorite podcast. I live here now. Okay. I'm sorry. No problem. No problem. So in the late 80s, New York City was divided is the way that you always see it described.

You can say that. It obviously was divided. I feel like it was in a really similar to way in which the world is still divided today. You had a super polarizing Republican in the White House. You had people protesting for equality on the streets. And you had a whole new wave of sexual self-identification going on. I feel like New York in the late 80s, and Tracy, I feel like you're a good person to give us a bit of insight into this. New York in the late 80s,

what was going on? What's the vibe? In the late 80s, I was very much in Kentucky and never had any idea that I would ever be here. So whatever I knew about New York City came from movies and TV. And of course, when I was younger, I guess it would have come from comedy. So whatever I knew about New York City came from movies and TV. And of course, when I was younger, I guess it would have come from comedy. So it was sort of like a campy, very over exaggerated, like graffiti all over the trains and just like actual like mounds and mounds of garbage like everywhere. And it was just like, you know, if you walk down the street, you're going to get murdered. And that was it. What i knew about new york city either that or that's where fancy men fancy white men in fancy suits run around and they yell things and they go buy sell buy sell and they get a lot of money and then they buy boats

and that was new york city exactly this trip is the first time i've ever been on the subway obviously like we have the tube in london but it's very different and the only time we see subway stations on TV at home is someone jumps in front of a train or there are vampires or it's like the Warriors. So whenever I was on the subway, I was like, something's going to happen. Which one will get me? The New York City subway is scary. The London tube is so not scary. I feel like New York subway is still scary today. But I think in the 80s,

it is exactly what you said, Tracy. I think it's like a vibe of grimy, crimey, but also that whole Gordon Gekko, greed is good, like Wolf of Wall Street, that kind of vibe coexisting with that extreme crime and grime that we see in like the poorer parts of New York. You know, that whole Wolf of Wall Street vibe, I think, came from the fact that the financial sector at this point was making a huge comeback. So the rich got richer and crime rates soared and the AIDS crisis and the crack epidemic ravaged the city. And I was like reading a bit about the crack epidemic over lunch because you know how to have a good time. I do know how to have a good time i do know how to have a good time apparently if you

were taking crack in the late 80s in new york you were having a great time for like a little bit for like a day and then you were having the fucking worst time of your life because crack i was reading it was like ridiculously cheap i think it was like you could get a fix like a total fix for like two dollars or something it was so incredibly cheap and it was so incredibly profitable for people to sell it just like completely swamped the city to call it an epidemic is exactly the word that we should use unsurprisingly with a crack epidemic like that going on the murder rate soared towards something like 2 000 killings a year and in 1989 alone the year we're talking about 3 254 rapes were reported in the five

boroughs. Wow. So just imagine what the true number probably was if that's the number that were reported. So I never even thought about the other crimes that were committed in addition to murder during the crack epidemic. So somehow the crack epidemic has been made worse in my head. Like I always knew it was bad, but now I'm like, geez, like we only know the stuff that we saw. And of course the stuff that we saw, though it was, you know, there was a whole like marketing campaign behind, you know, this is a black thing. This is a black problem. Awful. And that's just like the surface. Gee, so there's that. And number two, I have a question. Okay. Is it common? Well, I guess it's not even common knowledge here, but have you heard people say

that the government like orchestrated and pretty much engineered it over here? Yeah, yeah, I have heard that. Yeah, the FBI. Okay. Orchestration of the crack epidemic. I thought CIA. Was it CIA? I got it wrong. It was everybody. They did it. It's true. All of them working together. Everybody do a Google. Tell your friends, spread the word. I think this is the key thing is that the crack epidemic and all of the different factors that were influencing the social conditions in new york at this time they just led

to a huge amount of violent crime a huge rise in this and i think crack did play a really important part in this because it led to the rise of a lot more gang violence you know as soon as this kind of thing is profitable you are going to have people that want to profit off it and want to protect their profitability off this. So, of course, you see a rise in sort of violent crime and gang related crime. And as we often see, the people who are getting the blame for the rise in violent crime were the people who were being most negatively impacted by it. So, Tracey, it's like you said, it was the people in the most vulnerable communities. So generally speaking, it was people who were in communities of people of color. These were the vulnerable people who were just being smashed in.

Right. By the crack epidemic. Right. And instead of saying, oh, the way to stop this is to actually put money into poor sections of the city, actually integrate the city. Like integration is not like putting all the blacks in one corner and like putting them in another corner and then like surrounding them with, you know what I mean? Like it's sprinkling people of different quote unquote classes throughout other places where there's already money, you know, and that's how, because that way you can't just ignore the part that's got the most black people in it.

Of course, when you're living in a neglected part of the city or wherever you are, you're going to do whatever you can to make money because if you don't make money, you die. Exactly. And of course, you know, blaming and persecuting the people who get caught up in the system is like, oh, one of my favorite examples to give. So I sound really, really smart. It's like trying to kill a tree by plucking at its leaves. Thank you. I can hear the applause in my head. Thank you. Thanks. But I mean, it really is, you know, like, you know, you can vilify poor people. You can vilify people of color, and you can kill them in the street, and you can give them more and more crack. And I mean, nothing's ever going to change that way, you know, give people jobs, give people options, give people opportunities to do something else. Yeah, ghettoization and heavy policing has never worked.

No. Maybe one day they'll notice. That's a really good point. That's exactly what this whole case is. While some people might be thinking, oh, this is a case from 30 years ago. No, I feel like this is history, but it's not really history. I don't think it's that far off exactly where we are right now. I mean, you know, yes, back then this crack epidemic was leading to these poor communities being the hardest hit. But like Hannah just alluded to, negative policing and the whole idea around the 13th Amendment loophole and just the profit-driven motives of things like the private prison industrial complex that you have in the States, we see that in case after case after case. This hasn't gone anywhere. The circumstances that led to this case, the Central Park Five, haven't, in my opinion, dissipated. They're still very much there. Yeah. Speaking

about how this is not that long ago trump said something really stupid about it in gosh how long has he been a thing it feels like my whole life but he said something that made it plain and made it clear that he either did not know that their convictions had been vacated or he didn't care or and i was just like i think it was the latter i think he's very much of the opinion that they're definitely guilty and he certainly doesn't regret taking out giant advertising pages in the New York Times, which we will come on to. This is quite a Trump heavy episode. So apologies. He's so embarrassing. He feels like an embarrassing dad. I'm like, he's not even my dad. Like,

don't be embarrassed. We're not any better off. Oh, exactly. And we're not judging. We're not judging Americans for Trump. I am. How dare they? The factor of the matter is the majority of those homicides that we talked about in the late 80s, that spike that we saw in New York City,

the majority of them were young, black and brown kids. Make no bones about it. That's what was going on. And in the words of Reverend Calvin Butts, in the 80s, the black community were under assault. And he said the most endangered species in America was the young black man. And it was five teenagers of color that went to prison for the rape and assault of Trisha Miley. Those teens

would forever be known as the Central Park Five. And as you might have guessed, this is a racially charged case. Trisha is white and the five are not. And that dynamic completely drives this case. There's absolutely no two ways about it. And this case is super polarizing. Many people are convinced of the teenagers guilt and others claim that they are totally innocent and victims of structural violence in an institutionally racist system. But is it as cut and dry as that? I feel like when I've been reading about this case, people are very much in one camp or the other. And I'm not sure whether you have to be so, I was going to say black and white about it. I think, well done, yeah, I'll leave. I love it. I think you can be in somewhere in between and we'll get on to like the timeline of what happened that night. I genuinely don't think they were in

the park to play in the sandpit. If she wasn't a white woman, we probably wouldn't be sitting here talking about it. We wouldn't know her name. We never would have heard about the case at all. And that's so sad. And to that note and to that end, like there's such a history of literally dark skin being criminalized, right? You know, like, I mean, that was the reason behind all the lynchings that happened. It was because black men were, they could, they're so lascivious, they couldn't control themselves. So we have to protect white women because also women are too weak to defend themselves. That was also an insult to you, ladies. You should also be mad. Tangent, tangent, tangent. Lynching. How did I get there? How did we get to lynching? We're going to talk so much about lynching in this case. Don't even worry about it.

So you've got years on years on years of that that's already like cemented in people's minds. And you've already got these black people who are already violent, you know, just because they're brown, even if they're not violent, they're probably violent. So we should be scared of them anyway. And just them being present, you know, like we were saying earlier, like they weren't there to, you know, convert people to Christianity, sure. But I mean, if they're there at night, they must be up to no good. And if they can be up to no good, sure, they probably murdered this person. It wouldn't be hard for anybody to believe that with no evidence at all. Like, yeah, sure. Checks out. It's probably right. Absolutely. And slight tangent from me, actually, based on what you were saying there about criminalization of black skin. This is a real tangent, but I was watching

a documentary on Netflix. I think it was like, it wasn't one of the after porn ends, but it was about porn. And I can't remember which one it was like, it wasn't one of the after porn ends, but it was about porn. And I can't remember which one it was. But in that, they talk a lot about interracial porn and how taboo interracial porn still is. This is a tangent. You're right. No, no. But it was interesting because the guy, the black performer was a man and he was, you

know, performing with a white woman. And he was saying, very eloquently, actuallyquently actually really interestingly he was saying interracial porn wouldn't you think that means any people who are not of the same race no it's only classified as interracial porn when it's a black man with a white woman wow so they don't class it as interracial when it's a black woman with a white guy or any other type of situation you can put together i did not know that Only that when it's a black man with a white woman. A tangent, but I thought it was interesting when he said that. Not to keep us on porn for too long, but I've also heard that to this day, a lot of white actors and actresses will charge more for interracial scenes.

I've heard that too, yeah. And I'm just like, wow, you know? Yeah, it's like, I won't do anal and I won't do interracial. So moving on from porn let's get to the top of our timeline to get to the bottom of what happened we have to start from the top of the night and actually the end of last year there was a massive data dump on this case so you can go and you can read all of the depositions it's all out there which I feel up until very recently wasn't the case so I've gone through them and this I think is what happened chronologically so top of the night the Central Park Five are Antron McRae, Kevin Richardson, Yusuf Salam, Raymond Santana and Corey Wise I also watched

a YouTube video of someone running down the case and they called Yusuf Salam Yusuf Sailman was it me? Because it sounds just like me. Sailman. But that's not his name, so that's not what we're going to call him. All of the five were 14 in 1989, except for Corey Wise, who was 16. Yusuf, Kevin and Corey all lived in the same building, which is called the Schomburg Plaza in Harlem. All of the boys knew each other by face and just from around. Only Yusuf and the boys knew each other by face and just from around. Only Yusuf and Corey

properly knew each other. The 19th of April was a nice night and most of the neighborhood kids were out and about playing basketball and messing around. None of the five had ever been in any kind of real trouble before. Raymond Santana had only recently moved to Harlem from the Bronx. Yusuf lived with his mum who taught at Parsons University. Kevin Richardson was the youngest of the four children and absolutely the baby of the family. Antron lived with his mum and dad and described his dad as his best friend. Corey Wise is a couple of years older than the others,

but he had a hearing issue that as a kid he ignored. So by the time he was 16, it was causing him real problems. And I think even though he is older and he's 16, I think we go on to talk about how much in our opinion at least that hearing impairment that he has really holds him back in this case I think so like you can watch the footage of him and it's heartbreaking this is the only case I've researched which made me cry and it's for Corey Wise he so clearly there's something going on and his speech is quite slurred like even as an adult and he's just so clearly not

keeping up with what's going on in the videos and it's like really heartbreaking to watch so I think this hearing problem was causing him enormous problems by the time he was 16. And I think this is the key thing to really hammer home at this point because like we go on to talk about the media's output of this case was very much one way I think the thing you have to remember picture these children in your minds as we talk about this case. They're 14. They don't know shit.

And Corey, yes, he's the oldest and he's 16, but he has, definitely has a disability. He's not like a big 16-year-old. No, he doesn't look 16 either. He looks about 12. So on the 19th of April, 1989, Raymond Santana's dad, Raymond Santana Sr., told his son that he could go out

if he wanted to, but there was too much trouble on the corner by the complex, so if little Raymond wanted to go out, he had to go to the park. Corey Wise was walking home when he saw a large group of kids, somewhere between 20 and 30 of them, all walking past the park. Corey described this group as including some good kids and some bad kids, some he knew and some he didn't. Yusuf Salam was outside Schomburg Plaza as he saw his mate Corey walking up. He told him to come with them, so he did. Kevin Richardson was playing basketball outside the plaza with a few of his good friends and despite his friends asking him to stay on and play, Kevin decided to join the group of teenagers descending on Central Park. Antron

was out and about too. Like Corey, he saw the group and recognised some of the kids. He decided to join in. So Raymond Santana, Yusuf Salam, Corey Wise, Kevin Richardson and Antron McRae, all almost totally independently of each other, joined the group of kids and went into Central Park through the 110th Street entrance just before 9pm. And the group were just as rowdy as you would expect a group of teenage boys to be. They were jumping around and play fighting and because of the sheer number of them I imagine that might have been quite an intimidating sight. As they entered the park members of the group started to throw rocks at cars and this bullshit behaviour then started to escalate as they moved through the park.

Yusuf Salam described seeing the group of teens surround a homeless man at 10 past 9 p.m. They beat him, stole his food, and smashed a beer bottle over his head. When the five retell these assault stories, they claim to be only peripheral characters. And I'm not sure how far I believe that, because there's 20 to 30 of them. They're all teenagers that all know each other. I imagine it must be very easy to get completely carried away. Also, that sounds terrifying and chaotic. How you even like build a case like oh no i was over here in the corner with my hands in my pocket the whole time you know like

okay who saw you there exactly because everybody else was tormenting somebody else and not all of them know each other uh some they don't know at all so it's it's impossible to build a case you can't who's your alibi exactly it's like the perfect storm for what goes on to happen it's impossible to build a case. Who's your alibi? Exactly. It's like the perfect storm for what goes on to happen. It's very easy in that chaos to sow the seeds of exactly what you want to say happened and build a narrative along the lines of the people that you managed to catch in that group. And a lot of assaults happen that night. And we just do not have time to cover all of them. So we're just going to focus on the assaults that concern the five.

So the next one was at 9 15 and it was a couple on a tandem bike who rides a tandem bike does anyone does anyone actually really do that as a real life activity i don't know i think you're only allowed to do that on um first dates where you like held hands and skipped through the park and had ice cream. And now, oh my gosh, it's time for the tandem bike via stream. I don't know about it. Nobody does that. Especially like after the scene we just set up of New York in the late 80s. This couple just comes along and fucks it up by riding a fucking tandem bike through Central Park at 9.15 at night.

Right. Like I'm suddenly very suspicious of this tandem bike. What are you up to, bruh? What you doing? What's this about? You look shady. We'll do a bonus episode on the tandem bike riders. We'll find them.

Also, if any of you listening have actually ridden a tandem bike, can you tweet somebody and tell them why? Maybe me. you can tweet me i'll listen but like you know why who are you what do you do what do you do for fun okay that's a good question that's why we're here asking the important questions you're welcome whatever they were doing they were on this tandem bike at quarter past nine in the evening and they cycled past the gaggle of boys and they almost don't make it away from them members of the group attempted to pull them off their bike but the couple regained balance they had a bit ofgle of boys and they almost don't make it away from them. Members of the group attempted to pull them off their bike,

but the couple regained balance. They had a bit of a wobble and they managed to get away, leaving them and their bike totally unharmed. Wow. I imagine that tandem bikes are probably quite difficult to regain your balance. So maybe they were like super well-practiced at getting away from groups of teenage boys on a tandem bike. I would imagine, and that's a victim blame,

but I would imagine if you're going to ride a tandem bike, you got to practice like being chased. You know what I mean? Just prepare just in case. Just run a couple of drills before you go outside. But what we're absolutely not doing is excusing these assaults. Of course not. I do find it a little bit hard to believe that the five would have just been

watching these assaults and possibly throwing some rocks. If they were that appalled by the whole thing. At least leave. Go home. Yeah. Like you don't have to go and get the cops, but like you don't have to stand around and watch it happen. And also like the, I'm sure there's a fancy scientific word, but like the. How old were they at this point?

14 and 16. Okay. And at that point you want to fit in with whatever group you're around. Oh, her mentality for sure. And especially like boys and masculinity, like, you know, why aren't you beating up these people on this tandem bike? Jerk. You know how teenagers talk to each other. The question of like, why didn't they just go home if they were so appalled?

Well, this is exactly what Corey Wise claims that he did after the homeless man was assaulted. The police showed up and the group of 20 or 30 Harlem teens scattered. Corey claims that that was enough for him so he left the park and went home. Raymond Santana however didn't go home. He was with a few of his friends and after they had all separated they resolved to find the rest of the group and then go home. They ended up near the reservoir at about 9 20 p.m. Antron McRae claimed to have left the park before 10 p.m. because he had a curfew. And I hadn't realized until looking into this case how big Central Park is. It is large.

It's huge. This is New York. Like, we could have front yards if you would, like, carve it up and just give us, like, a plot of land. I miss yards. Like, I could maybe even have a porch. It's like a forest in the middle of a city why it's 843 acres i don't even know how big an acre is but that sounds egregious well yeah well winnie the pooh lives in the hundred acre wood so it's 800 and a change whoa how come we saw we never saw any of the other neighbors in a hundred acre wood what is it just like oh i don't know, just the five of them and all of this land?

I'm sorry. Stealing front yards from people. God damn it, Winnie the Pooh. I think we found another mystery to solve. Another important question to ask. So I made my mate walk around Central Park with me on Saturday and she was really excited about it. To walk the perimeter takes a good two hours depending on how fast you're going. And the park is so large that the group of marauding teens were not put off their crime spree by the police showing up.

They all just ran off and regrouped down by the reservoir at 9.25pm and continued to throw rocks at joggers. Do we know if they like had a contingency plan before they like went out hoodlumming everywhere? Like, OK, if the cops come. Oh, maybe. And then we meet up at like wherever at 925. This is the thing. But when I was walking around the reservoir, it's big. Like there's there could have been any points around the whole thing.

You don't know where they actually end up. It just says by the reservoir. But that could be anywhere. And the other thing I noticed when I was walking around is it is quite sort of densely treed. So you can't see quite very far at all. You could not pay me to go in there at night. I wouldn't go in any park at night. No, me either.

But especially that one. There's one right by my house in London and I cycle home from work and it's much quicker to go through the park. But at night time. Don't you know? No. No shortcuts at night. Absolutely not. So it's an extra 10 minutes and a giant hill, but I will not cycle through Fins park but at night time don't you know no sure because it's absolutely not so it's an extra 10 minutes and a giant hill but i will not cycle through finsbury park at night you should just get yourself a tandem bike kind of oh what to make myself more of a target no you

might be able to you might become like better at you know fending off those attackers and the person on the back of my bike could be like a ninja exactly or they might be like look at that girl she's so tragic she's on a tandem bike let's not i'll leave you alone she's got enough problems just you but on a tandem bike solo somebody's listening to this episode on a tandem bike right now yeah we're gonna get some angry twisters i really hope so that's okay i just want to talk about tandem bikes so they're hanging out by this reservoir at like 9.30 at night, still not put off by the fact that the police are looking for them, just still throwing rocks at joggers.

So this jogger, Robert Garner, was the first guy that came past. And he actually managed to escape just having some rocks thrown at him. But the second person to come by, a teacher called John Loughlin, was not so lucky. At 9.50pm, he was jumped by some members of the group and beaten. Again, Raymond and Yusuf claimed to have watched these assaults from a distance. Loughlin was beaten over the head with a pipe by one of the group. Which one? Wasn't clear. In some accounts, it was Yusuf Salam.

In others, it was Antron McRae. In others, it was a tall, thin, black guy with gold teeth. Comes back to that feeling of total chaos. Eventually, the police showed up at the scene where the second jogger had been attacked, and again, the group of young men scattered. At this point, Yusuf claimed to have left the park and taken the subway home. According to him, the only crime he committed that night was jumping the turnstile at the station. So at 10pm, only Kevin Richardson and Raymond Santana claim that they were still in the park. And like everyone else who witnessed the beating of the second male jogger, they were running from the police.

At 10.50pm, Raymond Santana was picked up by a patrol car on Central Park West and arrested. He was taken to Central Park Precinct. Kevin Richardson was chased by police through the park until one of them caught him and wrestled him to the ground. Then, according to Kevin, the police officer swung his helmet across his face while saying, what's going on? I told you not to run, you little animal. This helmet left marks and a scratch on Kevin's face and he was escorted to the Central Park precinct with a few other members of the group. By 11pm, both Kevin Richardson and Raymond Santana were in handcuffs

in the police precinct. When an officer asked Kevin Richardson what had happened to his face, he explained that an officer had hit him. He was met with aggression and disbelief. Both Kevin and Raymond were told by various officers that they would be out of the police precinct soon, but they wouldn't. Kevin and Raymond were there all night. And that's what we see the whole time that different members of the Central Park Five are in different police precincts, but the consistent thing is they're told, you just need to do this one thing for me and then you can go home or you're only going to be here for an hour. The saddest thought that I had after listening to all of that was at least they didn't kill them. My chest actually, like even though I know the story, my chest started to tighten up that all he did was jump a turnstile because there are so many cases where like that is the start of like a really horrible night for somebody because when

the cops show up, you know, you really do not know what's going to happen. And I don't think that people who don't have to interact with cops a lot understand that that's not like an over dramatization like really like when I am near a police officer when I have to interact I accept that I might not get out of it alive and I don't have a criminal record I've never gotten a parking ticket probably because I've never had a car probably because cars are scary I didn't get my license until later I mean this could have happened yesterday you get desensitized to it but you also don't at the same time our um mutual friend is a tall black guy I remember I basically went to visit him when he was at university in Manchester we all went on a night out I lost him didn't know where he was I ended up with his

housemates who I've only just met and I was was like, where the fuck has he gone? Classic. He's disappeared when I've come all this way to like see him. He sounds great. And didn't turn up all night. We get a phone call from the police station. They're saying he's in custody. If you know our mutual friend, he is not the kind of person to ever be involved with the police. And what had transpired was that night he had gone out. He decided that he needed to urinate in the street. Don't do that because someone's going to stop you. And apparently the police came over when he did this and something happened. Maybe he's drunk. He started to run.

And then he remembered something that his dad had told him. And he thought to himself, now it looks like I'm running from the police. So he turned around and ran back towards the police. And they maced him. Oh, my God. I know. Oh, my God. This is the most stressful story.

Because they thought he was going to attack them. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. But it's the fact that that was in his mind, that he was like, shit, now it looks like I'm running. So I better run back and then get maced in the face. I get it. Who knows what you would do in that situation where you're like, oh, my God, I could die. How do I prevent myself from dying? He's the reason Cerise and I know each other. This is true. But I think that's the sad thing, isn't it? That not only do people

have to think about this kind of thing, Tracy, like you said, you have to accept that maybe, hey, I might not come out of the situation alive. It's also the fact of like mothers and fathers who have children, especially boys of color, having to tell them, if you encounter the police, this is what you need to do or this is what you shouldn't do. That is a terrifying thing that you have to prepare your child for. Especially when you can do all the things right and still die. You know, it's like damned if you do, damned if you don't. Back in Schaumburg Plaza, Kevin's mum received a call from the police.

She was told that Kevin had been arrested for unlawful assembly and she needed to come down to the station to pick him up. Raymond Santana's dad was awoken by a knock on his front door. When he opened it, he was looking at two police officers who told him that Raymond Jr. had been arrested and that he needed to come down to Central Park. When Kevin saw his mum and other parents arrive at the precinct, he felt a small sense of relief. Surely that meant it was almost over and that he would be allowed to go home, but again, he was wrong. At 1.30am, two men were walking through Central Park when they heard moaning coming from the trees off the main footpath. They followed the sound and they found Tricia Miley. She was naked except for a sports bra and

had lost a great deal of blood. These two guys called the police and when they arrived at the scene, it was determined that Tricia had been lying there exposed for hours. Her body temperature was dangerously low. She was muddy and it was clear that she had been dragged off the paved path into the grass. Near where Tricia was found, police uncovered her trainers in two different spots. They never recovered her house keys. In the pictures of the crime scene, there is a clear trail from the path into the grass. It was very obvious where Tricia had been dragged from

and how far. Her mouth and wrists were tied with a piece of clothing and it was clear that she was on death's door. Tricia, in a critical condition, was taken to the Metropolitan Hospital where she slipped into a coma. At the hospital, it was discovered that she had been raped. One of the doctors noticed hand-shaped bruising on her thighs,

indicating that she had been held down, possibly by multiple assailants. Tricia had been beaten so badly that her friends could only identify her by a ring that she always wore. The Central Park Police Precinct were told not to release any of the teenagers they'd apprehended in case they were anything to do with the rape and assault of Trisha. So Kevin and Raymond weren't going anywhere. At 3am, Kevin's sister Angela received a call from her mum who explained that she was still at the police station and she didn't know what was going on. She, like everyone else, thought she was going to be able to go down to the station and take Kevin home. But police kept telling her that they were waiting for paperwork to come through. So Kevin couldn't be released. And that

goes on for hours. I don't think that police should be allowed to just like lie about any and everything in the name of getting a conviction or a confession. And I think it's crazy that that has to be said. In the UK, it's illegal. So there was the Guilford Four, the Birmingham Six and the Maguire Seven who were falsely accused of terrorism. They all gave false confessions because of being given false information by the police. And since those cases, it is illegal for police to lie to you in an interrogation. I'm sure it still happens. Yeah. But I mean, like after so many cases, proven cases of false confessions, I'm just like, what are y'all waiting for? Why? Oh, because it would take away like one of your easiest ways to clear a case.

Well, exactly. And I think the idea behind is like, oh, well, if you didn't do it, why would you lie? But there are so many reasons why. Of course. You would falsely confess to something. Because you said, if I say this, then I can go home and be fine. Yeah. And I'm 14 and I'm scared and my mom's outside.

Exactly. Ugh, stressful. It's a very antiquated way to fight crime. It's when you had nothing else or you had no like highly trained people that could look at a crime scene, who could look at forensics, DNA, all of that stuff. It's just get a confession and that will do. That shouldn't be the standard for how we convict people, especially of crimes like of this magnitude. That's not police work. It's just lying. I can do that. And I think it's just another one of those things that while we're talking about a case that happened 30 years ago, this could have happened last week because not much has really

changed in terms of what they would be allowed to say or do, really. Raymond Santana Sr. was also not allowed to see his son. And thinking that Raymond Jr. would be released in the morning, he went home. By the early hours of Thursday morning, the hospital was certain that Tricia Miley was not going to make it, which meant that this investigation was escalated to homicide. So the police had to bring in the homicide squad. The young men who had been arrested for unlawful assembly were split up individually and questioned by detectives. They were asked to recount what had happened the night before. When one officer asked Raymond Santana, what happened to the lady?

Raymond replied, what lady? Kevin Richardson told the same story. Yes, he was in the park, but he hadn't seen any lady. Both Kevin and Raymond were asked to tell their stories again from the top, but neither of them made any mention of a woman. The only woman the group had come across was the one on the tandem bike and she had got away. All the victims of assault that night had been male and both Kevin and Raymond claimed to have only witnessed those attacks and had

nothing to do with them. Both Kevin and Raymond were questioned again and again about the lady who got raped in the park and when they no answers, the police started to get angry. It really isn't hard to understand why they kept the kids in the precinct when the rape of Trisha Miley was called in. The bare facts are a group of teenagers were rampaging through the park from before 9pm until about at least we can say 10.50pm. The reports of these assaults came in almost immediately, so it stands to reason that when another assault victim was found,

that it would be connected to the group of troublemakers. If the culprit wasn't one of them, one of them must have seen something. But as we'll go on to find out, it wasn't that simple at all. The police started to go in hard and according to Kevin, the threats were flying. Police originally thought that the attack on the lady jogger must have happened at about 10.05pm after John Loughlin had been beaten unconscious with a lead pipe. Kevin, like any 14 year old in a room with two fully grown shouting men in positions of authority, was intimidated. And Kevin was even more intimidated when he was told that one of the other kids had told police that he was the rapist.

And we've come across this before in our Juan Catalan episode. In the United States, during interrogations, police are allowed to, as Tracy just said, tell you almost anything to get you to talk. But what they are not allowed to do is promise you a way out. They certainly can't tell young men accused of felonies that they are home free as soon as they sign on the dotted line. But that, it seems, from the consistent accounts from all five, that's what was happening. I wonder if the way that they justify it is like, well, when we said that you can go home,

it's like you can go home after your trial's over and you finish your sentence and pay your debt to society. So technically, you know. Yeah, Corey Wise doesn't go home for 13 years after this night. They can rationalize this in any way for them. The ends justify the means. If I have to lie, if I have to say whatever I have to say, it doesn't matter because it's just about getting these kids and closing this case.

Just thinking about this now, so I could be completely wrong, but I feel like the image of like the closer on like a detective force, like he's the guy that comes into the office and gets the confessions, like so much so that it's like a trope in like tv shows and movies and i'm like this is not good everybody's accepted that like you know there has to be this guy and if this guy can like get a bunch of confessions i'm like that just means that he went and lied to a bunch of people and threatened a lot of people and probably like terrified a lot of people and the problem is that because of the way the law is in the united States currently, all of this is totally permissible in court. False confession doesn't really doesn't really exist. It kind of if they said it, they said it. And that's how it is. It's

quite difficult to pick apart a confession in a court because it has already been ruled by the time you've got to trial. If it's made it to the trial, it's been ruled permissible. Laws don't make any sense. I have a question that you may or may not know the answer to. Okay. So I'm trying to think about a situation in where a police officer was disciplined in some form for extracting a false confession. I'm sure it's happened. I can't think of one. The White and Catalan episode that we did, what happened there was there was a murder in L.A. And they were trying to prove that he could have made it to where it was in the time frame. And they showed him six images. And they said, your mate, this guy here says it was you. He said he saw you do it, which was obviously false. So Juan Catalan actually gets

off because he's in the back of a Curb Your Enthusiasm footage that was filmed at the stadium that night. He just walks into the shot. And that's what got him off. Oh, I've heard of this. Yeah. so the investigators who extracted the false confession from Juan Catalan were taken off the homicide squad. So they were kind of demoted,

but not really because they didn't do anything illegal. It was just quite a public case. I think one of them went to go and work on like fraud or something. Like they got taken off the like hotshot homicide squad. Yeah, make it illegal.

Make a law. People, that law keepers who break the law also get punishments. Maybe they'd stop doing it. Just spitballing. Just spitballing now. This is the thing, because I think in a lot of these cases, it comes down to what's deemed to be ethical, non-ethical. But like Hannah said, if the law isn't amended like it has been in the UK to say you can't lie to extract confessions or lie to coerce confessions, then you can't really punish police officers who do that because they'll say I wasn't breaking the law. You might say it might be your opinion that I acted unethically,

but I didn't actually break any laws. So to hold them accountable, there needs to be a change in legislation about how the police do this kind of thing. And if you vote for me in 2020, it'll be the top priority. Clayton's America. I'm here for it. I'll emigrate. Hell in a handbasket, two times faster, but way more fun. Oh, I think I just found my campaign slogan. I'm so excited. Do it.

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early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Faced with this false information that he was the rapist, that someone had told the police that it was him. He thought, fuck everyone else. If they're going to lie about me, then I'm going to do the same to them. So Kevin told the police what they wanted to hear. He told the detectives present, using all of the names they had mentioned to him, a totally different story.

Kevin confessed to seeing a white lady jogger wearing grey shorts, black biking pants and a white top. Then he saw a tall, thin black guy that he didn't know hit her on the head with a lead pipe and a Puerto Rican kid in a black hoodie jumped on her as well. Kevin told police that he had been scratched on the face while attempting to hold her down, but he didn't rape her. In his statement, Kevin told police that he had seen Raymond Santana rip the jogger's shorts off and that Anton McRae was the one who raped her. When Angela, Kevin's sister, got to the police station she was told that she

was old enough to replace her mother. Kevin's mother was disabled and she needed to go home and the police told Angela that her mother would be driven home in a police car and that soon Kevin would be allowed to go home and to get Kevin home was all Angela wanted so she did everything the police told her to do thinking that it would help him. But later in court the police would vehemently deny that they ever promised any of the group they had arrested that they would be allowed to leave the precinct. When Angela finally saw Kevin he was shivering and crying. Angela said to her brother that she couldn't believe that he had watched a woman get raped and Kevin replied, quote, I didn't see a thing. They told me to say that so I could go home. In later interviews, Angela said she felt so stupid for not realizing what was going on until it was too late.

In a separate room, Raymond Santana was also being given the detective treatment by Humberto Arroyo who shouted at him and blew smoke in his face. Raymond started to cry and continued to deny knowing anything about the lady who had been raped in Central Park the night before. Then the police tried a different tact. Detective John Hartigan sat with Raymond and basically told him, I know you didn't do anything. You're a good kid, but I'm getting word from other officers that your friends are saying it was you. I mean, how fucking deviant is that? How can you, unless you're completely dumb, right? Like you have to know that the chances

that you got the right four or five people out of a huge mob of black kids who were probably wearing dark clothes, because I guess at 13, 14, I was in dark clothes. I don't know. Anyway, you're in a park at night and all black people look alike, which, I mean, you're trying to, like,

recognize faces of your own, like, race more so than others. Like, scientifically, it makes sense. So, like, how can you trust anybody's eyewitness testimony, which is always faulty, number one. Like, if it was in broad daylight, I'd still be like, eh, grand assault. But, like, this is in the dark,

in the middle of a bunch of trees. I wonder how much they cared. There were a of like 30 young black kids well it's not just black kids you know a mixed group of like kids of color running around this uh running around this park this crime happens they must know the detectives know this is gonna be a shit storm of a case so i think they're just like this will do he'll do'll do, these kids will do. And I think that's the mentality they're going into this with. Now, according to Raymond, Hartigan told him that he was there to help as he pulled out a picture of Kevin Richardson. Raymond said that he didn't recognize the kid in the picture. Hartigan explained that the scratch on Kevin's face

happened when he was holding down the victim. So the police knew it was him. And then Hartigan went on to tell him that all they needed was for Raymond to give a statement saying that he saw what happened. It's diabolical. They're like, we know it was this kid. We know it wasn't you. People are saying it was you. To get yourself out of this, say it was this kid.

He's a bad kid. We know he did this. This kind of like head fuckery. They're children. Of course they fell for it. And I'm sure they were under all kinds of like just social distress and duress because here you are in a room with an authority figure who is white and it's already his word against yours because he's a cop, you know, and like you have no choice but to do what they say in that case. Because like you're used to having no power. You're used to not being able to do what they say in that case because like you're used to having no power you're used to not being able to do anything so why should you be in control of anything that

happens in that space who's going to believe you and it was framed like this whatever happened kevin richardson was going down and if raymond santana didn't want to go the same way then he would have to give the police something that they wanted to hear raymond reacted exactly the same way that ke had, except he told a different story. He placed the crime at the reservoir, which was not where Trisha was found. In his statement, Raymond told detectives that the female jogger was wearing blue shorts and a white shirt. Later on, Raymond would explain that one of the male joggers the teens had assaulted that night was wearing blue shorts and a white shirt. So that was the first thing he could think of and remember that is not what trisha was wearing that night the

detectives wrote down raymond's statement asking him questions like what did anton mccray do raymond minutes after saying he didn't recognize kevin richardson told police that he saw quote black kevin with a scratch on his face struggling to bring the white jogging woman to the floor. He's been fed this information and then now he's regurgitating it. It's unbelievable. And he also said that Steve Lopez had hit the woman in the face with his hands and with a brick. Steve Lopez is just like another kid who's like around in the group. He's not one of the Central Park Five, but he does show up in a lot of their statements. Raymond then claimed to have watched as Kevin Richardson, a kid he didn't know, raped Trisha Miley as she screamed for help.

And all Raymond did was, quote, grab her tits. I'm not convinced a 14-year-old boy would say that. That sounds like something a detective has said. I feel like I could imagine a 14-year-old kid saying that these days. Yeah, but not necessarily in a room full of adults. Yes. Yeah. I also don't know that I would buy that the kid would do that, right? Because I mean, you'd have to be pretty depraved to like, jump in and be like, okay, let me get in like a squeeze, you know, but like at 13, 14, like you have probably haven't

seen a boob anywhere else, you know, and you're like, Oh my gosh, all my friends are watching me, what do I do? So I don't, I don't, it doesn't sound likely. Who are these kids that, like, are that quote unquote confident to, like, grab at the tits of this woman in a frankly terrifying situation that would have been happening in front of them? And I think, Hannah, you're totally right. I hadn't thought about it like that. I don't think that even if he had done that or even if he would say that with his mates, I don't think he would say that when you're fucking terrified in a room full of cops. Now, Raymond just wanted to go home. And like Kevin, he had been led to believe that this statement was the way to do it.

He had been in the police station all night and a constant barrage of questions like what he had faced would wear anyone down, let alone a 14-year-old boy on his own. And remember at this point, neither Raymond nor Kevin had been allowed to speak to their parents. Raymond Santana claims now that if the police had fed him a hundred names, that he would have put a hundred people at the crime scene. He just wanted to get out of there. This is typical, it's survival mode. This is why torture doesn't work.

Because people will say whatever they need to to make the pain stop, and that's what's happening here. Now, after his statement had been completed to the satisfaction of the police, Detective Hartigan told Raymond that he had done a good job and everything was going to be okay. Raymond's dad then showed up. After waiting for almost five hours, he was allowed into the same room as his son.

And Raymond Santana Jr. had to recount the whole story again in front of his father. Then came the video statements. Kevin and Raymond were the first of the five to give these filmed statements. Eventually, all of them except Yusuf would film one. These statements were given immediately after the Central Park Five were interrogated by the police, and they were filmed by the New York District Attorney's Office. In these video statements, Kevin and Raymond recounted the version of events that they had confirmed with the police. These videos would become so famous.

They would be the crux of the state of New york's case against the kids but is it legal to keep a child separated from their parents in this situation i'm not sure but what i think has happened here is that if they give a statement like a video statement their parents are there but for the questioning they're not but i think you're right in that the parents are supposed to be there but maybe they kept them out i don't know for sure yeah because no you definitely would have to have like an appropriate adult or someone in the room surely maybe they were like look if you start bringing people in this is going to slow everything down we're going to let you go we just need to talk to you don't make a big thing about this just let us question him and then he can go home and nobody wants to prolong this any longer than

they have to so I think they're all just like what is the quickest way we can take our son home? Maybe. I'm just trying to imagine being a mother whose child is locked in a room with the police officer. And I'm being told, I cannot see my baby. Y'all gotta open this door and let me see my baby. Then I get arrested. Then I'm in a room without my mother. Just continue.

At around noon on the 20th of April, police started to round up other teens that they believed to be in the group. They had been given Antron McRae's name, so they turned up at his house. Officers told Antron's parents that they had some questions about some assaults in Central Park the night before, so Antron and his dad Bobby went down to the police precinct. Antron's mum Linda met them there. When Antron was questioned, he was told the same story as Raymond and Kevin. The only woman he had come across that night

was on a tandem bike and she had got away unharmed. And as we know, this is not what the police wanted to hear. So they got aggressive and started to poke Antron hard in the chest. The questions went on and on. The officers only stopped when the 14-year-old Antron burst into tears and then they took his dad Bobby McRae out of the room. And according to Antron when his father came back he was a different person and told his son to tell these people what they wanted to hear so he could go home. Both Antron and his father were told that Antron was only a witness and not a suspect. So Antron, like Kevin and Raymond before him, gave the police what they wanted. In his statement,

Antron said that he had been in the park that night with his friends Clarence Thomas, Raymond Santana, Kevin Richardson and another kid, Steve Lopez, and that there was 30 of them in the group, including other kids called Trayvon, Tony and T. Lots of T's. In Antron's version of events, the group spotted the female jogger at the reservoir. The group had thinned out since they beat up the homeless man, so now there are only about 20 of them, many of whom Antron didn't know. Then Antron told police that all 20 youths charged at the woman by the reservoir, that he held one of her arms down and that many of the group took turns in raping the woman. But when it came to Antron's turn, he didn't want to go through with it. But he also didn't want to lose face, so he got on top

of Trisha Miley and pretended to rape her. But he didn't unzip his trousers. That story that you just heard is what Antron McRae tells the camera. And at the top of every video statement, the Central Park Five and whatever adults they have with them are read their rights. It's clearly stated in the videos that they have a right to an attorney. So you have to wonder why Antron's parents, who are both present, waived his right to a lawyer. And why didn't they stop the interrogation to speak to a lawyer? And I think that the answer is fairly obvious.

It's all about power dynamics. And it's the same goal of we just want to get him home so we'll do whatever he's only a witness he's not a suspect we'll just get him home also i as a 36 year old black woman don't really know how to have a lawyer you know like when i'm watching like law and order i'm just like so you just say i want a lawyer like where does the lawyer come from who pays for the lawyer is it free and these are all things that like in the moment i'm sure like you don't have the wherewithal to like like, figure it out. Also, given the community that they're from, you know, if you think that you have to pay for a lawyer, you're not going to ask for a lawyer.

You know what I mean? I know I wouldn't. And at 10 p.m. on the 20th of April, Yusuf Salam noticed a lot of police cars outside the Schomburg Plaza. On his way up to his apartment, he ran into Corey Wise, who said that he had heard police were looking for them. Corey was right. The police were waiting right outside Yusuf's front door. The police had a list of names they believed to be part of the group responsible for the Central Park assaults, and Yusuf's name was on that list. Corey Wise wasn't on that list, but the police took him and Yusuf downtown anyway, telling them they would be coming right back. God, it's so fucking sinister.

Corey Wise's name isn't even on the list. And he's the one that goes to prison for 13 years. Wow. It's because he's talking to Yusuf. Also, did they never talk to the Stephen Lopez person? He was put on trial, but separately. Oh, interesting. I think he was even convicted of assault, but not in the Central Park Five trials.

Okay. I mean, Yusuf would be home in a week. Corey wouldn't see his own bed for another 13 years. So once at the police precinct, Corey and Yusuf were split up and questioned separately. They told Yusuf Salam that his fingerprints had been found on Trisha Miley's pants. How are fingerprints on tracksuit bottoms? I was just going to say, can fingerprints, like, do that? I am not convinced that they can. Yeah. Is that true? Maybe, like, you would just believe it, why wouldn't you? But Yusuf's interrogation was interrupted by his mother, Sharon, and he never gave the police a video statement. His story was that he was in the park with a lot of friends, but they had moved too fast for him to keep up. He saw one attack from a distance and walked past a body he believed to be dead, while he carried a metal pipe, seemingly for no reason at all. The pipe is mentioned in a few of

the confessions. It seems to have been taken from Corey Wise's house. It was a lead pipe with black tape wound around it. According to Corey, his father used it to hold the door shut because the lock wasn't working and people regularly broke into their apartment. The mentions of the lead pipe are consistent enough to make me think that they might be true. I don't know who was carrying it, but it seems like a lead pipe was definitely present at one point or another. And when John Loughlin was found by police,

officers described him as looking as if he had been dipped in a bucket of blood. And I haven't been able to find out too much about Corey Wise's home situation. And maybe because he was 16, there was no legal requirement for an adult to accompany him while he was being questioned. But out of the five, Corey Wise is the only one that nobody shows up for. Oh my gosh. No one comes for him. Ugh. So he's totally on his own when he's questioned. And he might be the oldest of the

group, but in his video statement, he just looks so small and he can't sit still. He can't hear properly either. It's really heartbreaking. How does that not elicit sympathy from somebody? But it's that full on otherization. They're not even looking at this kid as a child, in my opinion, the way that these detectives were looking at these kids. Oh yeah, they're criminals now. They're not children. Corey started his video statement at 1235 on Friday, the 21st of April, well over 24 hours after he was taken into the police station. Prosecutor Elizabeth Lederer was asking the questions. Lederer was a hotshot, only out hotshotted by her boss from the district attorney's office linda farstein fun

fact about linda farstein she's now a crime writer and she recently had a literary award taken away from her because of her involvement in the central park fight case whoa that was a twist i was not expecting yeah because she builds the case against them oh so in this video statement cory while not being able to sit still and struggling to hear, tells Lederer about the couple on the tandem bike, the homeless man and the two male joggers assaulted by the group of 30. But when he comes to the description of what happened to the female jogger, he can't even keep his name straight. He starts off saying that he saw Kevin, Raymond and Steve Lopez jump the female jogger while he watched. But then in the next breath, calls them kevin steve and sean

he's quickly corrected by elder and cory's hearing problems are evident in this video statement elder has to repeat herself often and i'm not an expert but i think he might be reading her lips a bit like he's really watching when she's talking pretty clear that everything isn't totally okay with cory wise and i've read accounts that he'd suffered severe emotional trauma and had a learning disability on top of his hearing problems. Corey told Eldera and the camera that he saw Kevin Richardson hit the jogger in the face with a rock. After the video statement was completed Corey requested to make another one after having spoken to a police officer. He changed his story and said that he and Yusuf Salam had held the female jogger down as Steve Lopez and Raymond Santana had raped her.

So there you have it. All five boys, after hours of relentless interrogation, all gave very different confessions. They put the jogger in several different places with several different people. Now here's what we think. All of their confessions are very consistent when they are talking about the homeless man, the tandem bike, the throwing of the rocks and the assaults on the two male joggers. But when it comes to the rape and assault of Tricia, the Central Park jogger, their stories are not the same. They're in different places, she's wearing different clothes, different numbers of people are present and most importantly, different people are carrying out the rape.

Now, we're not arguing, like we said before, that the group of 30 kids went into the park to, like, play on the swings and, like, I don't know, what do kids do? Like, play tiddlywinks. Oh, is that what y'all do in London? That's cute. In the dark. Nighttime tiddlywinks.

There's a league. It gets really intense. I believe all of this is true. If anything, their consistent descriptions of other assaults and the iron bar make it pretty certain that they were indeed involved in those crimes. But it all falls apart when they start to describe the assault and rape of Trisha Miley. But equally, if the police were feeding them a story, why weren't they all fed the same one? I think the only thing I can think of to explain that is that

these interrogations are going on in different police stations. There's the one in Central Park and then Corey and Yusuf are taken to one downtown. There are different police officers doing this. But even still,

it doesn't seem particularly consistent. Perhaps the five went into the park that night to cause trouble specifically. And maybe they had the intention of hurting people or stealing. But when it comes to the rape of Tricia Miley, that is kind of irrelevant because there's no way that the Central Park five would have been put on trial by the public for the assault of a homeless person and two joggers. There's no way that people would have been howling for the death penalty if that was all that happened that night. It was the rape of a white woman by young men of color that made it the crime of the century. And it didn't help the public image of the kids

when they were returned to a holding cell altogether. They're laughing and joking around and they sing Wild Thing that's so famous. And there are also reports that they catcalled a female detective, which is obviously not ideal behavior. They were expected to be hanging their heads in shame and just like quaking in their boots. But what you have to remember is none of them think they are a suspect.

They think that they're witnesses. They've given their statement and it's going to be over. Also, they're kids. Yeah. Like the part of their brain that makes them consider consequences like is not there yet. You know, so that would even make sense but again they were wrong antron mccray kevin richardson yusuf salam and raymond santana were all sent to spofford juvenile correctional facility and cory wise was 16 so he was sent to the infamous rikers island oh my god and i've looked into rikers

island and staggeringly it has a yelp review page i'm sorry what you can review Rikers Island and staggeringly, it has a Yelp review page. I'm sorry, what? You can review Rikers Island. I've taken the liberty of picking up some absolute gems. This is the most amazing thing I've ever heard. I have to write this down. This is the first one. I really enjoyed my stay here. There are many types of colourful characters who are quick to show you the ins and outs of this amazing facility. For example, since the staff perform random room searches for some reason,

I quickly learned from my bunkmate that the human body has many orifices that can double as little hidey holes. Oh my God. No. I hate everything that's happening here. But I know what I'm going to be doing for hours. Wow. Wine is a bit more positive.

Not a bad place for a short stay. Close to LaGuardia Airport. Kind of hard to get a taxi though. Swimming is dangerous. Guards don't want you to leave. Okay, this one. Three hots and a cot, 24-hour security, view of Manhattan and the water. What more can you ask for?

All for a very competitive price of free. All paid for by your hardworking taxpayers. Oh my god. Oh this one's great. This one's very specific. This has got some insider knowledge. So it's a great island getaway right in your own backyard. Beautiful on a summer night with a great view of Manhattan's famous skyline. The dinner is nothing less than five star. Inside a tip. Thursday is chicken night and it's to die for. Only a pops, quat and cough away. I also enjoy that its overall Yelp review is a two star rating.

Generous. If you want to lose six hours of your life, go on the Yelp review page. For Rik's Island. I cannot wait. I also know that there are reviews for The Great Wall of China. Oh, really? So I think I'm just going to look up Yelp reviews for things that should not have Yelp reviews. Like, why?

Why is this an option? I'm glad it is. So back to the story after our brief moment of comic relief. On the Friday the 21st of April, the arrests were announced. So that's only two days after Trisha Miley was found. It's an unbelievably quick turnaround from crime to arrest and it was celebrated by the police. It was a home run for law enforcement. They were proving that they had a hold on the city and that criminals were not getting away with anything and the media was all

over it. There's a television interview from around this time well before any convictions were made where the mayor Ed Koch tells the cameraively, and this is a direct quote, we always have to say alleged because that's the requirement. Yes, that's how it works. Because of innocent until proven guilty. Yeah, exactly. And then he says their mothers and grandmothers will say, oh, but he's a good boy. He never did anything. Don't you believe it?

Don't you believe it? And that's what he says. Nothing's happened. They're not convicted yet anything. Don't you believe it. Don't you believe it. And that's what he says. Nothing's happened. They're not convicted yet. They've literally just been arrested. Wow. Remember when the swimmer who raped a woman like behind a dumpster?

They were like, he's a good boy. Wasn't he like in his 20s or some shit? I don't know. He was a college student, I think. Yeah. Interesting dichotomy there. And I think that statement alone from the actual mayor of New York City,

makes it pretty clear that a trial was going to make absolutely no difference. The public narrative was one of total guilt. In a city where racial tensions were at an all-time high, it was a story that everyone had been waiting for. If the suspects and the victim had all been of the same race, it would have been a totally different story. Exactly. Imagine this police force getting so fucking excited and celebrating this case.

There is a crime epidemic in New York at this time. But it's because the majority of it is happening in the quote unquote ghettos and it's all black on black or people of color who are involved in this as perpetrators and victims. So who gives a fuck? Now it matters and this is just further proof because on the same night so the night of 19th of april 1989 a black woman was raped and thrown off a roof by two black men oh my god and it barely made the papers haven't been able to find her name that's how like people only use it as a comparison towards the central park five case like how do you even like express anger at hearing something like that you know you're just like oh it's fucked up it's like a feeling of oh i'm not surprised but we should stay surprised and we should stay angry but it's

hard to because you get so desensitized to it now this next bit tracy i think we would really appreciate your input and your help on this so the media they really jump all over this case and especially on a particular phrase wilding hmm you help? I'm not convinced we say it correctly. Technically, that's correct. You say it properly. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.

But the term as I know it does not include violence, right? So a reminder at this time, I'm younger and I'm living in Kentucky. Wait, wait, wait. I don't even think we said it then. Like to wild out on somebody. Like when you're wilding out, it's like, oh, they were wilding yesterday. Like it could mean like we were at a really great party yesterday or like everybody was just like doing too much or being dramatic. Like it can mean anything the way that I'm used to hearing it.

But I also understand that. And actually, this happened again in Louisville recently there was like this just like teens started to do this basically gather together in huge groups and just like go to a store and like five minutes of chaos and then everybody leaves either they refer to that as wilding or something the very least like that's I think that's what it is or I think with this case what it is is that these kids call it that because they're going out having a great time they're like you know causing some havoc they call it wilding but they these kids call it that because they're going out having a great time. They're like, you know, causing some havoc. They call it wilding, but they don't mean it to like go out and rape women.

Right, right. They're just being like boisterous kids. And yet there's some of their behavior. A lot of their behavior is not acceptable and absolutely not condoning that. But I think it's that phrase that then gets picked up by the media because it sounds like something else. It's the new scary thing. Oh, no, the kids are wilding. Have you heard? Exactly. So they misappropriate that term and then turn it on these kids because the comparisons they start to make, if you look at the front pages of the newspapers at the time, it's like

wilding, running wild, wolf pack. It's all very animalistic and it's all very lynching language. It's like running wild. Like that's what they want this to look like. These animalistic description of children of color in the press is terrifying when you read it. oldest of the group, to be, quote, tried, convicted and hanged in Central Park by June the 1st, so that Central Park could once again be safe for women, apparently. He didn't leave anything to the imagination. Why didn't he just say we should lynch him? I mean, number one, that's what happened anyway, like you said, you're absolutely right. But number two, like, what, do you think we don't know? What are you doing? You know, do you know we can hear you? So for Mayor Koch, the Central Park Five were a test of the system. Everyone knew that the five boys were guilty. So they just needed the system to prove that they were right.

And this is such a high profile case. He needs this to end the way that the public think it should end. Now, when he's talking about protecting the people of New York, it's really hard not to feel like he's being quite selective about the people that he means. Trump also weighed in on this media frenzy. He paid $85,000 to take out full page adverts in four major newspapers, including the New York Times. And these ads read, bring back the death penalty, bring back our police, above his signature. And Trump wrote, I want to hate these muggers and murderers. They should be forced to suffer and when they kill, they should be executed for their crimes.

They must serve as examples so that others will think long and hard before committing a crime or an act of violence. That's also why calling this a lynching is so appropriate because that's what lynchings were for, to make examples out of the particular person in the community that they were a part of. Like to the extent of like had, for example, that happened in Central Park, they would have left the body there for days so that people can see like the consequences of whatever is said of you. And also, I just realized that lynchings serve the same purposes, both back in the, like, during Red Summer, back in the 1900s, and also, like, during this case, because there's a need to make an example of someone.

Happened in both cases. There's political reasons, you know, like, you can't, if you let the N-words run wild, you're a bad whatever you are. So there's that. And then there's also, like, this need to, like, somebody has to pay. And I also feel like that's the undercurrent of this too. Like, you know, like somebody may have whistled at a white woman. Let's just Liam Neeson. Oh my gosh. What a timely reference. Yes. Yes. So all of that. I mean, it's, it's basically like, you know, a wrong was done to a member of my community. Therefore I have to go and like avenge us all especially if it's a woman you

know so i mean the more things change if they were white children would trump have been spending thousands of dollars on an ad calling for their deaths probably not and if the victim were black he would probably spend money defending them and getting a nice team of lawyers i think there's really absolutely no way that the jurors selected for this trial wouldn't have seen those adverts. It's impossible. So it would have been very difficult and next to impossible for them to be impartial at the trial. But back in the Metropolitan Hospital, Tricia Miley had no idea how famous she was. She remained in a coma for 12 days and when she came back round, she made an astonishing recovery. It took months of painful physical therapy, but eventually Tricia learned to live again. But she would never remember what happened that night in the park.

But through interviews with Tricia, police were able to piece together a pretty likely timeline of Tricia's movements through the park that night. She ran there regularly and she always took a similar route. So it was deduced that Tricia left her house at 8.55pm and that she must have been attacked at about 20 past 9. Trisha was found 300 foot north of the 102nd cross ride which is right near the lock which is not where the group of kids were at that time. The five and their mates were down by the reservoir assaulting different joggers at 9.20 and we know that for sure because those assaults were called into the police immediately after they happened and when I first first saw this, I was like, this is it. This is the proof that it can't have been then.

But on Saturday, I walked from the lock to the reservoir in 13 minutes and I didn't know where I was going. And as I said before, there are different points around the reservoir. So I walked from the near side to the lock and it took me 13 minutes. But it could be any time. The problem is that because we don't know the exact time she was attacked, we can't really say that they were definitely somewhere else and couldn't have made it from there to where they were picked up by the police. But I don't think that the timeline of the evening is the key to their innocence. In a case like this, it is very much more emotion over logic because the public was so certain of the Central Park Five's guilt that any controversial intricacies of the timeline or the geography were totally ignored.

They had confessed and they were guilty. End of discussion. Antron McRae, Kevin Richardson and Yusuf Salam were released on bail, but Corey Wise and Raymond Santana's families couldn't get the cash together to release their sons. So Raymond stayed in Swafford and Corey stayed on Rikers Island. While they were awaiting trial, Trisha Miley's clothes were sent off for DNA testing. Semen had been found on one of her socks. But not one of the boys came back as a match. None of the DNA at the scene matched any of them. So it really is quite difficult to believe that none of the

five had managed to leave any of themselves behind at the scene of the crime, considering that depending on whose account you believe, they would have been in some sort of struggle. So the semen sample went unidentified. Instead of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office case grinding to a halt, they changed their argument very slightly. The new idea was that just because they didn't catch them all, i.e. the person whose semen had been left on her sock, didn't mean that they hadn't caught some of them and didn't mean that these five weren't guilty. This sixth mystery assailant was inserted into the case and that is the argument that Linda Farshteyn took to court. In June 1990, Antron

McRae, Yosef Salam and Raymond Santana were tried together. They were charged with attempted murder, rape, sodomy, sexual abuse, assault and robbery. All three pleaded not guilty on all accounts. What everyone forgets here is that they were not just charged with rape and assault of Trisha Miley. There were other charges for their activities in the park that night but that's not a bit that everyone is interested in. The major piece of evidence used by the prosecution were the famous video confessions except for Yusuf Salam who didn't have one. The police claimed that he however had orally confessed to beating Trisha Miley with a lead pipe whilst others

climbed on top of her. That was literally the only evidence that the state had against Yusuf Salam. And there's another thing about the state's case that doesn't quite add up. It's the clear trail from where Tricia was dragged off the footpath and into the shrubbery. The grass is clearly flattened, and you can see this in the photographs of the crime scene. The trail is about 18 inches wide. So you have to ask, would a group of six adolescent youths who were dragging a woman off a footpath to gang rape her only have left an 18-inch trail behind them? As the inconsistencies were disputed in the courtroom, outside protests raged.

But not in the hordes I was expecting. From the footage I looked at, it looked like there were about 20 people there. Al Sharpton is one of them. Some were protesting the innocent of the five and shouting that the police should find the jogger's boyfriend. Others hold banners sporting the slogan justice for the jogger. And one white lady told the camera this is not about race. Isn't it? Never is. Never. Even when it is. Not for white ladies. To everyone's amazement, Trisha Miley took the stand at trial. She was described as having an unsteady gait but a strong, sweet voice. But as far as the trial was concerned, she didn't offer anything additional because she can't remember anything.

Her testimony only served to unite the general public even more fiercely against the Central Park Five. Towards the end of the trial, Yusuf, Antron and Raymond were all offered a plea deal, but only if all three of them admitted their guilt. Yusuf argued that if he had done something, then he would have copped out, but he didn't. So he maintained his innocence. So did Antron and Raymond. It was all of them or none of them. They chose none of them. And I think that says a lot when people refuse to take plea deals and say that they are guilty just to take a reduced sentence or something.

Now, after all the evidence that had been heard, the jury deliberated for 10 days. The world outside wondered, after all the confessions, what could possibly be taking so long? Ronald Gold, juror number five, was the sole reason for the holdup. He argued that although the confession seemed genuine, it was clear to him that the police were lying through their teeth. The deliberation in the jurors chambers was all centered on whether the confessions were coerced or not. And I wish I could say he changed his mind for a good reason, but he didn't. Ronald gave up arguing with the other jurors because he got tired of fighting. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. At least she's just like.

I love it coming but still. I want to go home now. I know. In his own words. Quote. I just wanted to get out of there. This case is full of a lot of people making bad decisions because they just want to go home. But I.

Yeah. Do that all the time. I think. Just fall to the floor at a party because I'm just like maybe this means I can go home now right but also and I've never been on a jury but it does sound like there's probably really like tiring emotionally and like distressing like do they give them like breaks or like a vacation from having to fight each other all the time you know I think they get lunch I don't know I think that's part of the thing isn't it Building the pressure and making them get to the point that they're so bored that they just like make a decision and get out of there.

Gosh, this is a dumb system. Take it down and start again. When you're president, Tracy, we'll consult on criminal reform. I don't know that man. I do not know him. Now, after Ronald gave up, Yusuf and Tron and Raymond were all acquitted of attempted murder, but found guilty on seven counts of rape, assault of Trisha Miley, assault on the two male joggers, John Loughlin and Garner, robbery and riot. They were all sent to Swafford Juvenile Correctional Facility. They were tried as minors and they were all given the maximum sentence under the law, which was five to ten years. The police officers on the case left the courtroom to claps and cheers. Two months later in October, Kevin Richardson and Corey Wise faced a judge and jury. Kevin Richardson, who was 16 by this point, was offered a plea deal, which he denied. Corey Wise was not afforded the same offer.

In the second trial, juror Yvette Naftal picked up Kevin Richardson's underpants and showed the other jurors what she said were grass and mud stains. She pointed out that Richardson must have pulled down his pants and raped the jogger because there's some mud on his pants and he's been in the park. Hairs found on Richardson's clothes were proven by forensic analysis to be consistent with that of Tricia Miley's, but that's not conclusive.

There were six other hairs on his clothes that were proven to be conclusively not Tricia Miley's. These stains on Kevin's trousers were never tested, so they are no proof at all. But Naftal's argument swayed enough jurors to convict Richardson of sexual assault. In both trials, Lederer took the jury through the assault timeline of the night. The problem was that none of the seven joggers and cyclists who testified were ever able to identify McRae, Richardson, Salaam, Santana or Wise. Still, the jury was swayed by the confessions. Kevin Richardson's defence attorney, Howard Diller, argued that Kevin was not coerced by the police,

but rather that he was with the group, but he didn't take part. Corey Wise was represented by Colin Moore, who argued that Corey was coerced by police, who put him under continuous pressure for 24 hours. But despite the efforts of these attorneys, both Corey and Kevin Richardson were found guilty. Kevin was found guilty on eight counts, including attempted murder, rape and sodomy.

He was sentenced to five to ten years. Corey, who was now 18, was found guilty of sexual abuse, assault and riot, but not of rape. He was sentenced to 5 to 15 years. Once again, the trial hung on one thing. Why would a child confess to something that they hadn't done, especially in front of their parents? So let's get into it. Why do false confessions happen? They are really not uncommon. 30% of people who have been cleared by the Innocence Project confessed to their crimes. 200 people called in to take responsibility for the abduction of the Lindbergh baby. They can't all have done it.

And 60 people claim to have murdered the Black Dahlia. There doesn't even seem to be a particular type of person who falsely confesses, although I would argue that it's more likely from children who have been put under immense amounts of pressure and who have never been arrested before. Do I think the confessions concerning the jogger were coerced? Yes. But there was a hearing before the trial in which the voluntary nature of the statements were explored, and the judge, Judge Gallien, who presided over the trials, ruled that all of the statements were explored and the judge, Judge Galleon, who presided over the trials ruled that all of the original video confessions and written

statements were admissible in court. Corey was sent back to Rikers Island and Kevin was sent to a juvenile facility, although it was a maximum security facility. And here he joined Yusuf, Raymond and Antron. Over the next six years on the inside, none of them ever admitted guilt or remorse in a parole hearing, so none of them were ever paroled. However, all except Corey Wise were conditionally released after serving seven years in prison. They went in at 16 and they all had to register as sex offenders, so finding jobs on the outside was difficult. Antron left New York and managed to set himself up out of state,

where people were much less interested in who he was. Raymond Santana moved back in with his dad, but struggled to find work. Eventually, he started dealing drugs and was sent to prison for it in 1998, for three and a half to seven years. This would have been a shorter sentence, had it been his first offence. By 2001, Corey Wise had moved to Auburn Correctional Facility, where he came across a young Hispanic man called Matias Reyes, who he knew from Rikers Island.

The two of them had what some people call a fight and what some people call an incident back in the 90s. At Auburn, Matias Reyes approached Corey and apologised to him for their tiff back on the island. Corey accepted his apology willingly, joking that it didn't matter, it wasn't going to free either of them. After this, Matias Reyes started to tell other people in the prison that he had met someone that was doing time for a crime that he had committed. These whisperings made it back to

the correctional officer's ears and they sent up an investigating officer to interview Reyes. And 13 years after Tricia Miley was found in Central Park, Reyes admitted to her rape and assault. He told the officer that he knew these kids got arrested for something they didn't do and he thought he had no choice but to own up to it. He gave a detailed account of his movements on the night of the 19th of April 1989. Matias had been in the park alone when he saw Trisha run past him. He hit her over the head with a tree branch until she fell unconscious and then he dragged her from the footpath into the grass at the side near the lock. He described what Tricia Miley was wearing, black

running tights and a white t-shirt, which is exactly what she was wearing that night and not a single one of the Central Park Five got her clothing description right. Reyes recounted how Tricia had a Walkman, which previously nobody had known about. He also told police that he removed her trainers, which explains why one of them was found in a different place to the other. Reyes had also stolen Trisha's house keys and attempted to find her address, which explains why her front door was locked, but her keys were nowhere to be found. The Manhattan District Attorney's Office reopened the investigation as soon as they got wind of this and they sent the unidentified seaman off to be retested and incredibly it was a match for Reyes and what's more Mateus Reyes had form he ran into Corey Wise on Rikers Island because he was convicted of raping four women

and one of them Lourdes Gonzalez he had killed He had cut around these women's eyes to stop them from identifying him. Oh my gosh, I'm sorry. He also admitted to sexually assaulting his own mother. And just two nights before the night of the 19th of April, he had raped a woman in Central Park. It is surprising that a man like this felt the need, even if it was 13 years later, to confess to this crime because some other kids had gone to jail for it. He reinvented himself as an honest man. So the lead detective on his case, Michael Sheehan, also worked on the Central Park Five case. Both cases were seen by the same judge and nobody thought to look into whether Reyes may have done exactly the same thing he had done

two nights before again in the exact same place. Sheehan would later claim in interviews that Mateus Reyes just didn't fit the MO. Please tell me how. Raping women is his MO. Like, how is that different? Yeah, I think that's a bingo. I think we got it. I don't think we need anything else.

That's number one. So Reyes had been apprehended in August 1989 when he was 19 because the woman who he had attacked in Central Park had noticed that he had stitches on his chin. So the police rang around all the hospitals in the area, checked the chin stitching records and found Mateus Reyes very easily. Finally, some decent police work. Credit where credit's due, right? Now, on the 19th of December 2002, on the recommendation of the Manhattan

District Attorney's Office, they vacated the convictions of Kevin Richardson, Yusuf Salam, Antron McRae, Raymond Santana, and Corey Wise. Raymond Santana was released from his unrelated drug charge sentence early, and Corey Wise was allowed to go home after 13 years in prison. But their innocence wasn't given nearly as much media attention as their guilt. The police department opened an internal investigation which found that the police on the Central Park 5 case, guess what, did nothing wrong apparently. And legally they didn't, they didn't really do anything wrong, legally speaking. Because the problem is that lying to a suspect in an interrogation shouldn't be legal.

Just like it isn't in the UK. A kind of official rebuttal on the conviction vacation was made by former federal prosecutor Michael Armstrong. His basic argument is that Reyes being guilty does not make the five innocent by default. He argues for an overlap between the two. The Reyes either joined in on the assault of Trisha Miley and stayed behind after the others left to rape her. Basically what he says is that the confessions of the five show that they were not being forced to make untrue statements but it's a bit of a weird argument and also I think the key thing with the entire case is the assaults on the homeless guy and the two joggers are a completely separate

thing. If the Central Park Five weren't convicted of the rape of Trisha Miley, we wouldn't know about it. So him saying, oh, well, just because we didn't get the one who raped her doesn't mean they didn't deserve to go to prison is it's not really about prison. It's about everybody knows who they are. And they'll live like this for the rest of their lives. And similarly, Linda Farshtey, the prosecutor who built the case along with Elizabeth Lederer, has never said that she got it wrong. And it was on the back of the Central Park jogger case that she built her name. She has far too much to lose by saying, my bad, guys. Oopsies.

Today, she takes the same line as Michael Armstrong. A guilty Reyes doesn't make an innocent five. In 1995, Trisha Miley ran the New York Marathon. She also released a book in 2003 called I Am the Central Park Jogger, in which she tells the story of her recovery. In 2014, the Central Park Five were awarded $41 million from a civil lawsuit against the city of New York. Trump called it the heist of the century.

He has never apologised for calling for the death penalty to be reinstated and he called the 2013 documentary on the case a one-sided piece of garbage. And the film has been criticised for not spending enough time on the other assaults carried out in the park that night but I do understand both sides. The film does skirt around the other assaults and it makes it seem as if the five were peripheral players in those assaults which I don't think is true. But had they not been accused of the rape of Trisha Miley, their trial and the rest of their lives would have been very different. And rather ironically, while struggling to get Brett Kavanaugh appointed to the Supreme Court amidst allegation of bullying, alcoholism and sexual assault, Trump told the press, quote, It's a very scary time for young men in America when you can be guilty of something that you may not be guilty of.

Tracy, thank you so much for joining us. We're massively overrunning. Thank you for having me. But thank you for making it to the end. I'm sad that it's over, honestly. Next time you happen to be around Brooklyn, you know, bring your friend with you and we'll do it again. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Guys, we Brooklyn, you know, bring your friend with you and we'll do it again. Absolutely. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Guys, we'll see you next time. Bye. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America. But when a social media-fueled fight over Harvard and its new president broke out last fall, that was no protection. Claudian Gay is now gone.

We've exposed the DEI regime, and there's much more to come. This is The Harvard Plan, a special series from the Boston Globe and WNYC's On the Media. To listen, subscribe to On the Media wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Warren, and in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest

to find the woman who saved my mom's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now, exclusively on Wondery Plus. In season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part, Three years ago today that I attempted to jump off this bridge, but this wasn't my time to go. A gentleman named Andy saved my life. I still haven't found him.

This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me, and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding, and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha

exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.