RedHanded - Episode 93 - David Parker Ray: Part 2

Episode Date: May 9, 2019

This week, in the concluding part of the David Parker Ray series, the girls head into the infamous torture trailer - “The Toy Box”. This episode is not for the faint-hearted as Suruthi and Hannah discuss the terrifying torture tactics Parker Ray used on his victims... Vote for us in the Podcast Awards here: https://www.britishpodcastawards.com/vote PLEASE   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, before we start the show today,

this is really the last run up to the People's Choice for the British Podcast Awards. If you haven't had a chance to cast a vote for us yet, we would love you to. It literally takes two seconds. The link is in the description for this episode. Give us a click. And if you remember, we are into bribery this year. So if we get into the top 10, we will be giving you a whole extra episode. If you were into that, you want us to win, give us a vote. On with the show. I'm Hannah.

I'm Saruti. And welcome to part two of our David Parker Ray House of Horrors Toy Box Torture Caravan extravaganza that is also red-handed this week. I hope you've all had some time to recover but it's over now because we're going to finish the story. Last week we left you just before the police entered the white trailer in the yard of 513 Bass Road which was the home of David Parker Ray and his live-in girlfriend Cindy Hendy. And before we take you inside that white trailer, let's do a quick recap of the story so far.

We don't want any of you to get lost along the way. Last week, we met four women who all had encounters with David Parker Ray and his family in the 90s. First, we met Kelly Van Cleave, who went missing for three days in 96, then was dropped home by Parker Ray with no memory of where she had been but she did retain a fear of duct tape and would have hellish nightmares in which she was being chained to a table. Then we dropped into 1997 and spent

some time with Marie Parker who disappeared from the Blue Water Saloon in Elephant Butte after being seen with Parker Ray's daughter, Jessie Ray. Dennis Roy Yancey was also in the bar that night, and we're going to explore his relationship with David Parker Ray in a lot more detail in this episode. The next woman we met was Angelica Montano, who was picked up on the side of the road by useless Deputy Sheriff Gary Labour. Angelica told Gary all about her days of extended violent sexual torture

at 513 Bass Road. But useless Gary did nothing about it until we met Cynthia Vigil. Cynthia was the last woman we met last week. She had been snatched from a car park in Albuquerque and driven the 150 miles back to Bass Road in Elephant Butte. There, she had been restrained, electrocuted and violated for days before making her escape. Once she broke free, she ran down the streets of Elephant Butte totally naked, covered in cuts and bruises and with a collar and a chain around her neck.

The authorities caught up with her. Due to a series of 911 calls. Cynthia then told the police every detail of what David Parker Ray and Cindy Hendy had done to her. After the police heard Cynthia's harrowing tale, David Parker Ray and Cindy Hendy were arrested pretty quickly. They didn't give much away at all, though. Parker Ray and Cindy Hendy told the cops that they had chained Cynthia up in their house to stop her from using heroin, and to get her through the worst of her cold turkey phase. Yeah, sounds like a standard protocol. Standard practice. Just chain them up naked by the neck in your living room, not even in the cellar. No. Just in full view of the house. And obviously the police didn't buy this story and 513 were searched. Both Angelica and Cynthia had recalled being played a cassette tape by David Parker Ray,

in which he detailed calmly all of the horrendous things he and his lady had in store for the kidnapped victims. And I know you all went and read it when I specifically told you not to. I'm watching you. There was some pretty traumatised people on the Facebook group after they'd gone and read it when I specifically told you not to. I'm watching you. There was some pretty traumatized people on the Facebook group after they'd gone and read it. And you've got only yourselves to blame because I did try. Same with the Ian Watkins court transcripts. Told you guys not to read it. I bet you did. And any of you didn't, after this, you're going to go find it and read it. I know you will. We are gluttons. I don't even know what the, I don't even know. I

was trying to think of like a... Oh my God, what are those phrases called where like the devil makes work for idle hands? What's that? It's a... Like a pronoun. A pronoun. Oh my God. A parable?

No. A proverb. Proverb. Proverb. That's it. That's it. The proverb of don't read things when Hannah and Saruti tell you not to. Brand new one.

There you go. There you go. There you go. I feel like they should be like Bible verses. Don't. Not that I'm comparing us. I am. Jesus, before anyone freaks out and yells at me. So this tape that we know you guys have gone and read the transcript for, we know you've

done it. This search that the police do at this point is when they uncovered that tape but the tape presented a problem too though because it started remember with a disclaimer claiming that this was all just for entertainment purposes only and this is kind of like do you remember when we did um the colleen stan one and he had the master slave contract but he'd literally just taken it out of a fucking bdsm magazine yeah that's exactly what it is and we come across this whenever we do a case that even remotely touches on BDSM we always have to have this conversation surrounding consent which obviously we should be doing that there's so many elements of this case where you

don't know whether he's putting it in there to cover his arse or whether it genuinely isn't true and with some elements of this case I genuinely don't know no I don't know I think okay my thoughts on this I don't think David Parker Ray was smart enough to legally speaking to think let me put this in for entertainment purposes only so that if I ever do get caught for this horrendous stuff I'm doing I can say that it was just consensual. Maybe, but I don't know if he's that like legally savvy to think in loopholes like that. What I think maybe happened was potentially he was originally, you know, hiring sex workers or, you know, getting into relationships with women and doing it like a consensual BDSM

sitch. Remember, he rehearsed that tape. He wrote it down, he recorded it loads and loads of times. And maybe the first iteration of when that tape was played was for entertainment purposes only. But David Parker Ray quickly realizes that consent and consensual BDSM, like a normal person practicing that wasn't for him and it wasn't getting him off the way he wanted so he moves into what he does but he just continues to use the old tape because he fucking loves the sound of his own voice he loves the sound of his own voice and i think like you said last week like the tape just mechanizes the whole situation i think he just couldn't be asked to do it again yeah and here

you go this one worked yeah and i think when it comes to cynthia veerhill because she was a sex worker and because just people don't generally don't seem to believe women in this story a lot of people think that she started out as a willing participant in this bondage situation and then maybe it got too much for her or he said he wasn't going to pay her and that's where she broke free and caused all of this fuss and maybe I don't think this but maybe you could argue that all of the women were willing participants at least in the beginning perhaps so maybe they agree to go to the toy box and then it all gets too much and that blah blah but i think there are definitely some bits of evidence that we'll deal with this week that make me think that david parker ray and to a certain extent c Hendy and even Jessie Ray and Dennis Yancey

were all predators picking off vulnerable women to satisfy David Parker Ray's sexual needs. Parker Ray explains it himself in his cassette tape when he says quote masochists are rare as hell and before you all lose your minds I am not a kink expert but here's my thinking on this if David Parker Ray really did let's pretend this is true for a second if he really did have this decades long career of sexual sadism how likely is it that all of the women were willing participants in the tape he claims he recorded it in 1993. We don't really have any proper way of knowing if that is true or not. It could be another layer in an elaborate fiction. But if we accept that the tape was made in 1993, that gives him years before he is caught in 1999.

And if, as he suggests in the tape, he really did get bored of women quite quickly, then the list of women he violated could be, in theory, endless. But again, we're coming up against this question of consent, like we always do with any cases that even touch on BDSM. I am by no means saying that masochists don't exist. Of course they do. All I'm doing is asking the question that in that isolated area of New Mexico where he lived, is it likely that there would be 50 women who would willingly participate in that kind of extreme sexual relationship? And it is extreme. It is. And especially during that time period.

Yes. Yeah. I just feel like, no. There's no argument to me to be made that all of these women, or really maybe any of these women, maybe in the very, very beginning maybe, yes. But I don't think they knew what they were consenting to, obviously, because we know what he goes on and does to them. But no, I don't buy it at all. I think we can put that to bed so here's what I think for David Parker Ray a guy who crushes taboos he eats taboos for breakfast

for him consent was the last taboo to be broken he needed his victims to not be consenting or it just wasn't as good and I am also inclined to believe that his BDSM career really was decades long just because of the sheer number of sex toys and restraints that were found in his house because remember he doesn't just have a fuck dungeon he has an entire fuck house he didn't even try to hide it and a thousand pieces of evidence were taken from his home which just in case we need to remind you and it's not emblazoned on your brain forever, the evidence taken from 513 Bass Road included homemade dildos made of scrap metal, hooks, handcuffs, whips, chains, shackles, metal collars and motorised

torture machines. Some of the contents of the house looked shop-bought and some of them looked entirely homemade. A little gem that we didn't tell you last week is that one of the homemade items was designed specifically to stretch breast tissue as far as it would go. And I really don't think I can describe much more of these items of evidence without the show turning into some hardcore audio porn, so I am just going to leave it there. Again, if you want to find the descriptions, they are extremely easy to find. There are photographs and diagrams too

if you really want to scar yourself for life. It's like medieval torture implements. But also like electric, like pounding dildos. Oh my God. Sorry, I said I wouldn't say it and then I said it. I'm sorry, guys. The thing is, as if that wasn't scary enough, the contents of the house was nothing

compared to the contents of the house was nothing compared to the contents of the white trailer in the yard the famous toy box had taken over a hundred thousand dollars and years to complete on the 17th of march 1999 the elephant butte police accompanied by the fbi and with the help of a locksmith opened the white doors of the 15 by 25 foot trailer and the fuck house had absolutely nothing on this. Inside the toy box was a gynecological chair complete with stirrups. There was also a mirror on the ceiling so that the person in the chair could see absolutely everything that was being done to them. The toy box also had a fur-lined coffin, steel leg spreaders in all different sizes and more electric shock machines just like in the house. There were whips,

chains, pulleys, straps, clamps, surgical scalpels, saws and of course yet another collection of enormous dildos. Parker Ray assured his victims in his tape recording that they would never be expected to take something bigger than the size of a baby's head inside them. Do you think we need to explain to the children at home what a cassette tape is? That's hilarious. Yes, go on then. I don't know how. Before we had CDs. CDs. And before we had MP3s, we had cassette cassette tapes you put them in a cassette tape player your car would

have a cassette tape player and you could also record direct off the radio yeah and it was filled with ribbon like it was made of magic and then sometimes your tape recorder would eat the ribbon and then you'd have to like squirrel it back in with a pencil those were hours of fun hours of fun and then eventually they would die. Stop working. Yeah. And it would be a really sad day for you. I remember the first cassette tape I ever wore out was the soundtrack to Disney's Aladdin. That's amazing.

I don't know what my, I used to do it all the time because I listened to like story tapes constantly when I was a kid. Me and my sister. And it got to the point where I could, especially especially I think there was two or three of them Carrie's War was one when Hitler stole Pink Rabbit and then something else very war themed books as a child I could stop them at any point and these are like eight cassette long books I could stop it at any point and I could tell you what the end of the sentence was that's how much I listened to it wow round of applause for Hannahannah mcguire there i still listen to carrie's war when i'm like really need to go to sleep it's on youtube topped it right back to um sorry brief jaunt into childhood nostalgia and now back to giant dildos and um the rather harrowing sentence i just uttered of the fact

that they would never have to take anything larger than the size of a baby's head inside them so yep thanks for that parker ray you're so considerate that than the size of a baby's head inside them. So thanks for that, Parker Ray. You're so considerate. That's the thing. He thinks he's a fucking doctor, man. Like he's just like, oh, well, your vagina can withstand this much. Therefore, I will not expect you to do this, this or this. And in the white trailer, there was also a Colleen Stan type box that David Parker Ray

would put over his victim's heads. It had a hole for their face. And I have no idea what that was for, but I can only imagine that it was not very nice if it's happening to you. It's like the first one that they, when they get Colleen in the car and they put it on her head, it's like that one. It's like a... The clam box that's on the Instagram.

Exactly. It's just for her head. Oh, and also the toy box trailer was also almost totally soundproof. And houses anyway were pretty far apart in elephant butte so the chances of neighbors hearing what was going on in the toy box and alerting the authorities was virtually zero there were also cctv cameras and motion sensors inside the hellish torture caravan just as david parker ray had described in his cassette recording there was a large sign on one of the walls of the trailer that read Satan's Den and another that read, if she's worth taking, she's

worth keeping. And that's not all either. A lot of things found in the toy box were mentioned in the cassette tape, including syringes, sodium pentothal, and phenobarbital parker ray claims in the tape that these drugs would render his victims unconscious and also erase every memory of their time in the toy box and at 513 again he's just like buying these random drugs and then concocting a cocktail giving it to his victims and saying yeah that'll sort you right out you won't remember a thing he's not a fucking chemist he literally thinks he is though and that's the thing so when i first read that i was like i don't know because i am not a chemist or a pharmacist or a doctor i don't know whether those drugs in combination would cause the effects that he claims that they are so i had a look into it

and it looks reasonably likely that those drugs would have that effect on some people sometimes. So sodium pentothal, which also in some places in America, they call it fatal plus. Oh, wow. What? Fatal plus. That's not how you market a drug, I'm afraid. Unless you're marketing a drug to kill people, in which case that's a great name. Well, and it sort of is, I suppose.

So sodium pentothal can be used to induce periods of general anesthesia. drug to kill people in which case that's a great name well and it sort of is i suppose so sodium pentothal can be used to induce periods of general anesthesia so that's the unconscious part of what david parker a was describing and it can also be used to initiate a medically induced coma presumably in differing amounts so that's like fatal light when you just want that bit yeah fatal light yeah semi-mortal, sodium pentothal is what most states give to death row prisoners to knock them out before they are given a lethal injection. And interestingly, sodium pentothal has a reputation for being a truth serum. And the theory behind this is as follows. The drug suppresses your central nervous system so your brain function is suppressed

as well and lying is a lot more difficult than telling the truth. So you're less likely to lie because your brain thinks it's too much like hard work. But obviously Parker Ray does not want his victims to tell the truth so this is where the phenobarbital comes in. Phenobarbital like sodium pentothal is a barbiturate that depresses the central nervous system non-selectively and is used as a sedative hypnotic. Phenobarbital controls abnormal brain activity and as such can be used to treat seizures and memory loss is a known side effect. So I think the idea here that Parker Ray is going for,

he would give you the combination of sodium pentothal and phenobarbital in order to induce an isolated bout of amnesia before setting his victims free. And I feel like, as I said, I feel like that is possible. But the thing is, we already know that Parker Ray did not have 100% success rate, despite boasting so in his tape, because Angelica Montano remembered every single thing. So he's not as good as he thinks he is. No, not at all. But even that wasn't the end of the Treasure Trove trailer. The toy box, like the house, was covered in graphic drawings of BDSM sex positions.

And also, rather tackily, I I thought a lot of plastic skulls there is a plastic skull candelabra that's just like one skull with like three plastic like you know um sometimes at Christmas people put like a triangle thing in their window that's not a menorah but it's like what Christians do instead of a menorah and sometimes they have like plastic candles it's like that. Oh my God. But on a skull. I mean, fucking fuck off, David. You're an idiot.

And of course, classic, classic, classic, classic. We are in the 90s after all. There were also a lot of references to Satanism and the occult. David Parker Ray was the leader of the Elephant Butte chapter of the Church of Satan. Or so at least he claimed. No one else seems to be able to back that up at all. And I don't know whether he was actually a Satanist or whether he thought it just fit in with the whole like Dungeon Master vibe. He's not a Satanist.

No way. No, he's just a guy who likes fucking spooky shit and pushing taboos and he thinks it's creepy and cool and he's... That's exactly it. He just thinks it fits him with his... General aesthetic. Exactly, yeah. Just to clarify, we don't think that he was actually a practicing Satanist. And if you want a deeper look into Satanism and what it actually is, go and have a listen to our Fall River cult episode. Now, there is another piece of myth connected to the toy box,

which I find really, really disturbing. More so even than everything else we've been talking about. I think about this bit the most, I think. Because some report that a woman who was hired by the FBI to sketch the inside of the toy box killed herself a week after. Now, we found absolutely no evidence to back this up at all. I really think it might just be a rumour and even if it is true we have no way of knowing what else that poor woman was going through. I don't think we can put her death down to the insides of the toy box but some people do and all it does is add to the mythology of this

case and quite frankly the much desired notoriety and mythology that david parker ray himself wanted oh absolutely that's the thing that like i really didn't know whether i should put that bit in or not because i i just felt like it might be if it is true it might just strike the wrong tone but i put it in because i just think it's it's to take apart the mythology that's the important thing. We don't want to feed into that. Yeah, exactly. Like, we don't know if it's true or not,

but people talk about it as if it is true. And, you know, we don't know what was going on with her. Like, it could have been a million things if it's even true. But I think it's just like, oh, it was so shocking. She couldn't handle it. Come on, man. It's just the classic thing of when tragedies occur around... Like, when tragedies occur um around horror films like the filming of horror films yeah yeah the film was cursed the set was cursed and it was like you know yeah though he had a heart attack

when he watched the exorcist well if those things had happened while you're fucking filming i don't know like bloody marley and me no one's gonna be like the set of marley and me is haunted like i don't know why that film was in my head. It's such a sad, sad, sad film. I hate it. I refuse to watch it. I've never watched it. I don't know why I ended up watching it. You know, I hate sad films. I've watched the two saddest films I've ever watched in my life that made me just weep were Marley and Me and Lion. And I can't cope. I hate it. Absolutely hate it. I remember watching Marley and Me and Lion and I can't cope. I hate it. Absolutely hate it. I remember watching Marley and Me at home and my mum gave up halfway through. We have a lab and she was like, nope.

And she left. And then she went and had a shower, came back about half an hour later and I was sat like a foot away from the TV sobbing. And she was like, why are you still watching this? That's so funny. It's the bit where he's like, i know i said you were a bad dog but you're not you're the best dog ever it's when the dog's dying you've just ruined it for everyone come on everyone knows the dog if there is a movie about a dog the dog is going to die

facts not in beethoven returns well in beethoven returns 2 that's what they're planning there are so many beethoven movies i don't think he dies in any of them i made the mistake of watching it's a wonderful life on a plane once and just sobbing so uncontrollably sobbing in between these two giant german men who like did not know what to do with themselves at all and they were just like do we you could see the cogs turning in there has been like is is she okay? Do we leave her to it? Is she just like this? I am.

I am just like that. Brilliant. Right. Sorry. Where are we? Back in the toy box. Back in the toy. I'm not sure I even want to call it the toy box anymore because that's what he calls it

and he thinks he quite likes it. Back in the trailer. Let's call it the torture caravan. Yeah. that's why he calls it and he think he quite likes it back in the trailer let's call it the torture caravan yeah so after they've cracked open the torture caravan and found all of this uh horrendous stuff inside which all correlates with not only what david parker ray himself said in the cassette tape but also with the testimony of angelica and of cynthia v hill you might think that things are looking pretty bleak for david parker ray and his girlfriend accomplice cindy and you're right it is not looking great but it's not looking like murder either. All the police and the FBI have at this stage is a BDSM dungeon, a fuck house, and a whole stack of medical questionnaires.

Cynthia Vigil told the police that she was raped, tortured and violated against her will, but not everyone believed her. We know that Parker Ray and Hendy told police that they've been trying to see Cynthia through the worst of her heroin withdrawal. They do not tell the police at this stage that Cynthia was a willing participant in some sort of BDSM relationship situation. But once David Parker Ray was presented with the contents

of his fuck house and torture caravan, Parker Ray claimed that all of the women who were ever in his torture caravan or in his house were there willingly and he never wavered from this story even for a second yeah if i was trying to kick a massive heroin addiction to the point that i need to be chained up in someone's house you know just to take the edge of i'd love to engage in some casual bdsm just to take it off you know take all the heroin off my mind um and also like why are you pretending you're such a like such a saint oh i just found this sex worker and she was in trouble i'm gonna take her into my house and chain her up come on parker a admitted that some of the women who came to his house and into the torture caravan were sex workers but he claimed that he never took anyone in there against their will.

My problem with that is this. If that is true, if every single woman was there willingly, why are you drugging them? If they are there so willingly, why do you need to go to such lengths to make them forget everything that happened? If they were into it, surely they would want to remember. And Cindy Hendy was quick to supply the answers to all these questions to the police. She didn't hold out to protect David Parker Ray at all. Police questioned her very soon after her arrest, and she cracked like an egg. It's pretty vital to the case that Hendy was just as involved as Parker Ray in the torture of these women. She watched them in the house, she chained them up and she also sexually abused them. People often forget that but don't because it's important. There really was no

way that she could pretend that she didn't know what was going on. So to protect herself she dobbed David Parker Ray right in it. Cindy had a traumatic childhood. She was sexually abused by her stepfather and no one believed her when she told them, not even her mum. As an adult, Hendy entered into a string of abusive relationships. She also dabbled in drugs and made the mistake of dealing cocaine to an undercover cop in Seattle. So after this mishap, Cindy Hendy was sent on a drug counselling course, but she wasn't having any of it. She skipped town and ended up in new mexico apparently the nickname

for new mexico is the land of enchantment i thought that was hilarious every american state has like a different really the sunshine state or the like something something and new mexico is the land of enchantment apparently and so the best one i think and they also all have a motto. Like every state has a motto. New Hampshire's is live free or die. Fucking hell. Yeah. And Kentucky's is unbridled spirit, which I thought was quite good because they've got horses and bourbon. That's smart.

It's very Game of Thrones-y, isn't it? It is, isn't it? It sounds like something from like the land that time forgot. The land before time. Maybe there's just dinosaurs in New Mexico. Maybe that's it. Now, when she was in the Land of Enchantment, Hendy got a string of other criminal charges under her belt, including a drink driving and assault charge. One of these crimes landed her a community service sentence, which she had to carry out at the Elephant Butte State Park. And remember, that's where Mr. David Parker Ray was... What did we call him?

Scooby-Doo-ing about, just being a Scooby-Doo baddie. Scooby-Doo-ing about being the security guard for nature's rollercoaster. I think he was a mechanic, but sure. He was the mechanic at Elephant Butte State Park. Same diff. This is obviously where she met him. The pair hit it off immediately, and it didn't take too long for them to discover their shared passion for sadism everything they do is

totally fucked up right but how hard is it to meet someone and you're like oh my god you're into that too that's amazing i know and they just in this small town hanging out in elephant butte state park and they're like you're into horribly torturing people and sadism oh my god me too well this is the thing that I wonder about Cindy Hendy because I think some people uh are of the opinion that he just sort of took her because she's significantly younger than him that he just sort of takes her under his sadist wing and molds her because she's 20 years younger than him isn't she but there was so if he had some sort of like if she was under his spell or whatever I hate that I hate that phrase but like if she was under his spell or whatever, I hate that. I hate that phrase. But say if she hypothetically was, she wouldn't have dobbed him in in the first five minutes.

I think she can stick up for herself. Can Cindy Hendy, I think. I agree. I don't know how into it she was as much as he was. But I think she strikes me as the kind of person because of how transient her life is because of the she goes from abusive relationship to abusive relationship i kind of think she would be the kind of person that would be like okay what is this person into let me be into that to some extent to try have some sort of situation here yeah but it's a that's a big ask this is a big leap and i don't think she's sort of standing and watching either. I think she's very involved. She's a Myra. She's a Rose. She's into this. You can put her alongside those women. Harvard is the oldest and richest university in America.

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Join me every week on my podcast, Haunted Canada, as we journey through terrifying and bone-chilling stories of the unexplained. Search for Haunted Canada on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. They say Hollywood is where dreams are made. A seductive city where many flock to get rich, be adored, and capture America's heart. But when the spotlight turns off, fame, fortune, and lives can disappear in an instant. When TV producer Roy Radin was found dead in a canyon near L.A. in 1983,

there were many questions surrounding his death. The last person seen with him was Lainey Jacobs, a seductive cocaine dealer who desperately wanted to be part of the Hollywood elite. Together, they were trying to break into the movie industry. But things took a dark turn when a million dollars worth of cocaine and cash went missing. From Wondery comes a new season of the hit show Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder. Follow Hollywood and Crime, The Cotton Club Murder on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Cotton Club Murder early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Hendy moved in with Parker Ray at 513 Bass Road, but they only got together eight months before Cynthia Vigil escaped the house.

So you have to wonder who. The woman that David Parker Ray describes as his lady in the tapes that he claimed to have recorded in 1993. Hendy had more information for the police than they could have ever imagined. She explained that Parker Ray would pick up sex workers, usually with substance abuse issues, because he knew that they wouldn't be missed. And sometimes he would let them go. And sometimes, according to Hendy, if they caused too much trouble, he would kill them.

So she's literally only been on the scene for eight months. If we believe him, he has been at this for decades. So his accomplice list must be pretty long. So that's six years before, at least five years before he meets Cindy Hendy, if we believe that that's when they were recorded. Because with a cassette, we have no idea when it was recorded. Yeah, I haven't seen any sort of detail. Maybe it is possible to carbon date a cassette tape.

I don't know. I haven't seen it disputed in many places. So maybe it was, but I'm just saying I haven't been able to, off the back of my own reading, running, that he actually killed some of these women. And she went into a lot of detail. She told the police that after Parker Ray killed these women, he would open up their chest cavities, fill the body with rocks, and then put them in the Elephant Butte Lake, knowing that they wouldn't resurface. That's very specific. It is, isn't it? Hmm. And probably quite efficient.

And he had free reign of that park i mean national parks are fucking huge i don't know how big this one is but how hard would it be for him to dump some bodies in the lake and never get spotted not very whether he did use the lake or not we don't know but he would have absolutely known the best places for hiding bodies and they must have been if he did kill these women pretty perfect hiding places because no bodies have ever been found or maybe there were no bodies at all with this case it's very difficult to know but let's assume that there were bodies to dispose of the lake is pretty perfect for it it's absolutely massive at its highest water level it can hold just say two million something like two million acre feet of water

i tried to look up what that is in liters but it just came up with an enormous number to the power of 12 so let's just say it is massive also i've never heard the phrase acre feet of water i think it's an american thing how interesting odd i've never ever come across it either so when we say massive we mean extremely difficult to search the only real way to know what was on the bottom of the Elephant Butte Lake would be to drain it. And considering the lake provides irrigation to 178,000 acres of land, there was just no way of doing that without causing major disruption. And David Parker Ray would probably have known that.

Oh, he 100% would have known that. Hendy told the police that she believed that Parker Ray would probably have known that. Oh, he 100% would have known that. Hendy told the police that she believed that Parker Ray had been killing his entire adult life. His first kill was at 20 years old and he'd never looked back. That's what she says. As we know from last week, that conflicts against what his first wife said. Cindy Hendy, I don't know, like so many things she says are quite inconsistent. We'll get there. Hendy tells police that Parker Ray needed a non-consenting partner to get off at all the pain inflicted on a consenting adult in a safe bdsm kind of way did not cut it for him it's just like

exactly the same comparison you could make between someone who just wants to have sex with a consenting normal person and someone who is a rapist. The non-consent is what they want otherwise they would just not be rapists. Like it's exactly the same thing. Hendy claimed that Parker Ray's body count was as high as 30 people, 18 of which he had killed in New Mexico but most of the bodies were dumped in the neighbouring states of Texas or Arizona. Hendy was adamant that Parker Ray had never shown her a single body dump site and she had no idea where they were. So which one is it, Cindy?

Is he dumping them all in the lake or is he driving them to Texas and Arizona? That doesn't really make sense to me. And also she's like saying that she knows that the bodies are in the lake because he told her, but she's also like, he never showed me a dump site and I have no idea where they are. This is what I mean with her. Like she's very inconsistent with detail and she gets people's names wrong a lot

and it's just a bit, I don't know. She's not 100% credible. No, she's not. She has an agenda. She's fucking in this up to her neck as well. Yeah, that's true. Some things about Cindy Hendy's story though did make sense because she was able to tell the police all about the abduction of Angelica Montano

although she did refer to Angel the police all about the abduction of Angelica Montano, although she did refer to Angelica as Angela, as we said, but I don't know, maybe you can forgive her for that. Yeah, I think I can, this time. She certainly does worse things. Went and put into perspective. She also said to the police that they should dig up the backyard and that David Parker Ray kept a meticulous photo diary of his conquests but

that he would periodically burn them. Okay does seem weird for a man who kept everything for him to make notes like that photo diary and then burn them. He's got his pile of trinkets right which they have not managed to trace to anyone. I think he is actually pretty smart. He's been doing this for decades and he's got away with it and so so I think he's just very good at destroying evidence. In return for all this information, Hendy was rewarded by the police a reduced sentence for her participation in Parker Ray's depraved schemes. Whilst awaiting her trial,

Hendy received a stack of love letters from Parker Ray. He promised to marry her and even got a tattoo of her on his arm. Nothing says love like a jailhouse tattoo of your face on my arm. If I was in prison, I'd get loads of tattoos. I'm in prison. I was going to do my dissertation on prison tattoos, but then I decided that I didn't want to go into a male prison on my own at 23. No, I think that sounds like an excellent decision that you made there.

What are you going to jail for that you're like, I'm in prison, I might as well get loads of tattoos on my face and neck or whatever you're planning? No one said face or neck. I'm saying it. Hands and feet only. Why are you getting secret tattoos? You have to get visible tattoos. That's true. I don't know. I definitely would, though, if I was in prison. In November 1999, after all the love letters and the tattooing and all this, Hendy

attempted unbelievably to recant her confession. She claimed that the terms of her plea deal had not been properly explained. But this didn't wash with the judge. And in January 2000, Hendy was told that she had to stick to the previously agreed terms. It was too late for her to change her mind now. So Hendy was eventually sentenced to 36 years. And police dug up the yard at 513, just like Hendy had suggested, and found absolutely nothing. Not a single trace of human remains. That's what I mean. She's not that reliable.

She's like, no, I promise you, you have to dig up the yard. And then they found some animal bones or something, but that was it. There was nothing. Unless he was gaslighting her and telling her that he was burying, killing girls to keep her in line and burying them in the garden, but he was actually dumping them somewhere else. Or maybe he wasn't killing anyone at all. This is what I don't know.

I just think a man who crosses lines the way that David Parker Raid does and did for such a long time, I can't believe that he wouldn't go to the next level and kill them. The only reason I could think that he wouldn't is like I mentioned my thinking in the first episode, which is that he wants them to stay alive so that their suffering continues because he's a sadist. Even to have accidentally killed a couple of women, the things he was fucking doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Whatever Cindy said, whatever's going on, the police don't find any remains. So who knows how much of what cindy hendy said was actually true but cindy did turn the

authorities on to another person of interest we actually already met him in part one marie parker's violent ex-boyfriend dennis yancey cindy hendy also told police that dennis yancey had killed marie parker under dav under David Parker Ray's orders and that they had driven her body out to the desert. That was why Marie Parker had disappeared without a trace. But she insisted that Parker Ray had never told her where exactly the body was. And honestly, Marie Parker is the closest they get to a murder charge. Yancey, as we know from part one, was a piece of work. Like Parker Ray, he had a brief stint in the military. He was in the Navy. In 1999, Yancey was just 27 years old, but he'd already been convicted of domestic violence and rape. Yancey

ended up hanging out with Parker Ray because of their shared interest in Satanism and Sadism. What a combo. Again, I just don't understand how you like discover this about a person. Like how, what situation does that, well, I suppose if you just go around to David Parker Ray's house, you're like, okay, I assume you're this kind of person. And if you go and they've got loads of fucking hardcore BDSM hanging up on the walls, you're like, oh, you're into sadism and I noticed your plastic skulls. Satanism? If you'll remember from last week, when Yancey was a teenager, he tried to start a satanic cult of his own and got Halloween cancelled. So to him, David Parker Ray, possibly a real life Satanist, was the bee's knees. After Hendy tipped them off, police were quick to call in Yancey for questioning.

Yancey admitted that he and Parker Ray would pick up sex workers and abuse them together in the torture caravan, before Hendy was ever on the scene. But, just like Parker Ray, Yancey insisted that this was only ever consensual and that they never abducted anyone or hurt anyone who didn't want to be hurt. But eventually Yancey cracked just like Hendy did. He did put up a bit more of a fight but not much and he admitted that on the 4th of July weekend 97 he had strangled his ex girlfriend Marie Parker to death under Parker Ray's instruction. Yancey kept saying in his police interview,

I didn't want to do it. He forced me to do it. We met Marie last week. She went missing from the Blue Waters Saloon in Elephant Butte. Dennis Yancey and Jessie Ray were both there that night. And according to Yancey, this is what happened. Yancey was in Elephant Butte staying with Parker Ray as he was having one of his famous parties to celebrate Independence Day. Yancey and Jessie Ray, that's Parker Ray's daughter, don't forget,

left the party for the Blue Waters Saloon, where they found Marie Parker. Yancey and Jessie Ray took Marie into the car park. Then they got into Jessie's truck. They were about to deliver her to David Parker Ray. Then Yancey climbed on top of Marie in the back of the truck so she couldn't be seen. And they drove off to 513 Bass Road. Parker Ray was waiting for them. When they arrived, he took Marie into the torture caravan.

Yancey claimed that he didn't go in there with Marie, but he did admit that he knew exactly what would be happening inside. I don't believe that for a fucking second. That he didn't go inside? what would be happening inside. I don't believe that for a fucking second. That he didn't go inside. Yeah he went inside. Yeah yeah oh my god you don't like abduct a woman drive her all the way there and then be like oh I'm out now good have fun I'm off. Done my bit. So he claimed that he didn't go inside but he stayed in the house the whole time drinking beer and even debated apparently whether he should call the police. Lies, obviously.

Now, there is no way that Marie Parker consented to what was going on in there. Marie Parker, like so many before her, was being held captive at 513, and she was held there for days, until Parker Ray decided that it was time for her to go. Parker Ray told Yancey that he knew what he had to do and handed him a rope. Yancey then strangled Marie Parker, who had already endured days of unimaginable torture, to death. Parker Ray photographed the whole thing. Yancey and Parker Ray then drove Marie's body out into the desert and left her in a ravine in Monticello Canyon. Yancey was warned that if he told anyone, he would be next. After this revelation, Yancey was placed under arrest for the murder of Marie Parker and agreed to tell the police where Marie's body was in exchange for a reduced sentence. He went with police to Monticello

Canyon to point out where the body dump site was, but again, the police found absolutely nothing. Yancey insisted that Parker Ray must have moved the body to an alternate location. Whilst awaiting trial in prison, Parker Ray got in touch with Yancey. But unlike his love letters to Cindy Hendy, Parker Ray just wrote a note that read, quote, Yancey tried to get out of his plea deal and told the court that he would be entering a not guilty plea for the murder of Marie. But just like with Cindy Hendy, this was not allowed. I think what he's trying to do here is he is convinced that they're going to find a body and he knows that that was him.

So when they don't find it, he's like, fuck, I should have just kept my mouth shut. And now I've implicated myself and I didn't need to because there's no body. And I don't get a reduced sentence now because there's no body. My information was useless. So why would they give you a reduced sentence? They give him a reduced charge. And in the end, Yancey agreed to plead guilty to murder in the second degree in return for 25 years inside. And any subsequent charges connected to Marie Parker would be dropped.

No one else was ever charged with the murder of Marie Parker. And there isn't much the police can do without a body. In June 1999, they thought they might have one. A body, that is. When a fisherman saw a burlap sack floating in Elephant Butte Lake. This sack was found by police to be filled with human remains. But they were so decomposed that the only shot they had at identification

would be dna but no one had a dna sample for marie parker i had no idea this was possible but apparently you can get an approximate reconstruction of a person's dna with samples from both of their parents how interesting yeah fascinating isn't't it? But Marie Parker's dad refuses because he's like, oh, I was never sure she was my kid anyway. Fucking hell, dad. Suspect, Marie Parker's dad. I think that is very suspect. Why didn't you get paternity test then? She's an adult woman.

Wow. He refuses and the police are hit with another dead end. We'll never know if Marie was in the sack in the lake. If you think that is as fucked up as this story gets, buckle up because it is about to get really bad. I cannot believe this is real, but it is. So if we cast our minds back to the insides of the torture caravan, what the police found on the inside, they found a CCTV setup and they managed to pull footage from those cameras. And there was one particular section of

film that caught the police's attention. It starts out with Parker Ray standing in the torture caravan alone testing the cameras from different angles. Then it cuts to static and then it comes back on with a woman restrained in the gynecology chair. Her legs are in the stirrups and David Parker Ray does unspeakable things to her. The footage wasn't clear enough to identify the woman's face, but there was one distinguishing feature that was picked up by the cameras. This woman had a tattoo on her left calf. It is really distinctive. I've seen it described as like a tribal swan. I don't know if it is a swan or not,

but I can tell you that I have never seen anything like it before or since. It's definitely unique. And the footage that shows the woman in the chair was recorded in July 1996, which is where our story began. The tattoo was so distinctive that police thought that someone would recognize it and they were right. A series of tip-offs eventually led back to Kelly Van Cleave, the very first woman we met in the episode last week. The police released an image of the tattoo to the public and three people came forward to confirm that the tattoo on the woman in the video matched one that belonged to Kelly Van Cleave. Kelly had a tattoo on her left calf that matched the one in the toy box TV footage exactly. So she

was the woman in the video. So now Kelly knew where she had been for those three days back in 96 that she couldn't remember. How terrifying is this? I really wish it wasn't real. Massively. And after this all came out and Kelly realised what happened to her during that time, that fear of duct tape started to make a lot more sense. Kelly had since moved on to Colorado, but agreed to come back to New Mexico to tell the police all that she could remember of the night that she went missing. And although Kelly couldn't remember much, she did recall some key details. As we know from last week, she'd been at the Blue Waters Saloon on the evening of the 24th of July 1996. She'd only had one drink, but then she started to feel really unwell. So Jessie Ray offered to give Kelly a lift home on the back of

her bike. But she drove Kelly to 513 Bass Road instead, and straight into the back of her bike but she drove kelly to 513 bass road instead and straight into the hands of her sadistic father there's something about the fact that it's his daughter it's jesse ray that's delivering him these women and i think unlike cindy hendy and unlike dennis roy yancey really i think he really has a hold over jesse ray yeah i mean this isn't something you just suddenly bring up over like fucking cereal and newspapers in the morning it's like he's groomed her for this yes absolutely absolutely and i think that's why she's the most loyal oh of course so after kelly's interview with the police jesse ray was called in for questioning jesse was totally adamant that everything her father had ever done was consensual and that she certainly had no part in the murder of Marie Parker.

I was expecting, if I'm honest, a bit more of a Manson-esque vibe from Parker Ray's immediate circle because they're just delivering him vulnerable women all the time. But it really is only Jessie Ray that stands by him. Jessie never changed her stance and eventually she was charged with kidnapping, criminal sexual contact and conspiracy. She faced a maximum of 150 years in prison. And in June 1999, Jesse Ray entered a plea of not guilty. And that brings us to the eye of the storm, David Parker Ray himself. He never admitted any guilt and took the same line as his daughter Jessie Ray, that he had only ever taken women into his toy box who wanted to be there.

David Parker Ray was prepared for three separate trials, one for each of his known surviving victims, all of whom we met in part one. The trial for the kidnap and rape of Kelly Van Cleave was the first. No evidence from the trials of Angelica Montano or Cynthia Vigil were permitted by the judge. So the only thing that Kelly's prosecution team had to work with was the video of the footage of her in the gynecologist's chair in the toy box. The cassette recording of Parker Ray detailing what he was about to do to his victims was not allowed to be submitted as evidence

because Kelly had no memory of hearing it and also because of the disclaimer at the beginning that it was only for entertainment purposes. David Parker Ray did not take the stand. His defense's main argument was basically this. Why would he drive her back himself if he had done anything untoward? But I think the answer to that is been the underpinning of this entire case is pure arrogance on Parker Ray's part he's been doing this for so long like he's just seeing and he's obviously a boundary pusher like he's seeing how far he can take it and get away with it of course and he does for years it's part of the thrill for someone like Parker Ray taking her all the way back home seeing her

husband and being like oh I picked your wife up like it's part of the game it's part of the thrill now the footage in the chair that was played to the court was not enough and the jury unfortunately came to a stalemate with two jurors refusing to convict Parker Ray so the judge had no choice other than to declare a mistrial the two jurors who refused to convict him were sure that Kelly was lying and that she had consented to the toy box torture. David Parker Ray's lawyers did a pretty good job of making Kelly look like an untrustworthy person who would do anything for attention. The Kelly case was retried in November 1999, and in a bizarre twist of fate, the judge who had presided over the first trial died.

So another judge was appointed. This new judge did allow the tape recording to be presented to the jury and it was all they needed. This time round, the jury took five hours to find David Parker Ray guilty of Kelly's kidnap and rape. After this conviction, Parker Ray's defence team ran wild with the press. They called his trial a witch hunt for alternative sexual practices. Parker Ray's sentencing was postponed until after he stood trial for the

kidnap and rape of Cynthia Vigil and Angelica Montano. But Angelica would never see trial. Unfortunately, she died of pneumonia at just 28 years old, and her case was never taken to court. Jesse Ray was scheduled to stand trial in February of 2000, and David Parker Ray, in what seems like an uncharacteristic show of compassion, agreed to enter a plea deal in exchange for all charges against his daughter to be dropped. In return for this, Parker Ray pled guilty to all charges associated with Cynthia Vigil, so that's kidnap and rape. Not a single murder charge was brought against him. This is so important. People call him the toy box killer.

Literally no evidence he killed anyone. No, he's never been convicted of a murder. The only thing that comes close is him telling Dennis Yancey to kill Marie. He doesn't kill Marie himself, if we believe Dennis's story. And that's the thing. It's not even he's never convicted of a murder. He's never even charged with a murder. They've never even found a body. Now, a condition of this deal was that Parker Ray would have to give 100 hours of interviews to the FBI to help their criminal profiling team. Parker Ray agreed to these terms, but Jessie didn't get away totally scot-free. She ended up serving two and a half years, but didn't have to go through a trial.

On the 20th of September 2001, all in all for his crimes against Cynthia and Kelly, David Parker Ray was sentenced to 223 years in prison. But David Parker Ray was not a well man. In 2002, just eight months into his sentence, he died of a massive heart attack. He was never convicted of a single murder. So does he really deserve his place on the big hitters list? That's the big question this week. Scuba and sonar searches of the Elephant Butte Lake

have not found a single suggestion that there might be bodies filled with rocks lining the floor of the water. New Mexico law enforcement, on the other hand, remain totally convinced that David Parker Ray's victims lie in the desert undisturbed. So is he America's most prolific serial killer with no body count?

Did he get away with murder? I think yes. I flip between thinking most prolific serial killer with no body count? Did he get away with murder? I think yes. I flip between thinking he's a serial killer and thinking he's a fantasist. Like I just, I wonder if we accept that he's been doing this for decades and he's killed maybe upwards of 30 people and he didn't make a single mistake? Not one? I don't think he's killed lots of people. I think he accidentally killed some of the women that he held and did this to.

And over the years, over the decades, that could have been hundreds. It could have been tens. It could have been hundreds of women. We just don't know. And in that time, he was also picking very like, he was picking victims that were leading transient lives that were, you know, we talk about this all the time. People who, quote unquote, aren't going to be missed as much. And I think that, yeah, if a couple of those women disappeared, especially in these circumstances, like we see these women who are alive and saying this happened to me weren't even being believed. I could believe that he dumped a couple of bodies in the desert. But

again, that begs the question, well, if he only accidentally killed a couple of women because of what he was doing, does he deserve his place on the big hitters list? In my opinion, yes, because he's so terrifying. The things that he does, this is why I think he's not that well known. Because I feel like it's too much for people. I think the thing is, without any bodies, we'll probably never know. But I will say this as a closing point. If he was hiding bodies, he was incredibly good at it. I wouldn't put that past him because he was so good at everything he did

because he put so much time and care and attention to everything that he did related to this pursuit. Exactly. Exactly. Congratulations. You made it. You have made it. Well done. Thanks very much, guys. You know the drill. If you would like to to you can come and follow us on all the social medias at red handed the pod you can also head on over to patreon and um help

support the show by making a pledge there and hannah i feel like i've made you do it so many times so i'm gonna do it today you're gonna have to do it because i can't actually read it on my kindle but i will say before we go if you're listening to the last five minutes this is your last five minutes bonus prize for sticking it out till the end from now on the first Monday of every month we will be releasing a bonus episode on the Patreon feed for people who are pledging ten dollars or more we're going to be making some changes to the pledge structure this week I know there's been a few discrepancies so we're on top of that this week so keep an eye out for those changes and here are the people who there's been a few discrepancies. So we're on top of that this week. So keep an eye out for those changes. And here are the people who there's quite a lot because we didn't do it last week. So good luck. I'm going to power through. Right. Thank you to Sari, Roseanne Orwell,

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Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, NASA embarks on an ambitious program to reinvent space exploration with the launch of its first reusable vehicle, the Space Shuttle. And in 1985, they announced they're sending teacher Krista McAuliffe into space aboard the Space Shuttle Challenger, along with six other astronauts. But less than two minutes after liftoff, the Challenger explodes. And in the tragedy's aftermath, investigators uncover a series of preventable failures by NASA and its contractors that led to the disaster. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first

to binge the newest season only on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial today. He was hip-hop's biggest mogul, the man who redefined fame, fortune, and the music industry. The first male rapper to be honored on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Sean Diddy Combs. Diddy built an empire and lived a life most people only dream about. Everybody know ain't no party like a Diddy party, so. Yeah, that's what's up. But just as quickly as his empire rose, it came crashing down. Today I'm announcing the unsealing of a three-count indictment, charging Sean Combs with racketeering

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