RedHanded - OJ Simpson - Part Two: The Gloves Are Off | #430

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

OJ Simpson wasn’t black, “he was OJ”. That was the narrative OJ had pushed his entire career… right up until he found himself in the dock for killing his ex-wife and a waiter. Then suddenly OJ Simpson was practically MLK himself.Last week in our first part on “The Juice”, we told you how OJ Simpson killed Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman. In Part Two, we’re going to tell you how he went to trial, with all of the evidence stacked against him – and, with the help of the “dream team”, still got away with murder.Exclusive bonus content:Wondery - Ad-free & ShortHandPatreon - Ad-free & Bonus EpisodesFollow us on social media:YouTubeTikTokInstagramVisit our website:WebsiteSources available on redhandedpodcast.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Red Handed early and ad-free. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Hey, Ontario, come on down to BetMGM Casino and see what our newest exclusive the Price is Right Fortune Pick has to offer. Don't miss out. Play exciting casino games based on the iconic game show only at BetMGM. Check out how we've reimagined three of the show's iconic games like Plinco, Cliffhanger and The Big Wheel into fun casino game features.

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Hi, I'm Lindsay Graham, the host of Wondry's American Scandal. In our latest series, three teenage boys from West Memphis, Arkansas, are accused of a vicious triple homicide. There's no real evidence linking them to the crime except rumor and fear, and that'll be enough to convict them. Listen to American Scandal on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Hannah, I'm Surruti.

And welcome to part two. OJ Simpson done did it. And now he's done dead, so he can't get me. That's why we waited. And the last red-handed of 2025. Wow, is. Strauss. Wow, just trousers, indeed.

Oh my gosh. More rhymes a sombrero. Solitaire Not even a word The best I've got No problemo Sombrero I don't know

I forgot what we were saying What are we talking about Oh wazzo stras All right Whatever man Look We've given you quality content All year

That's the best fucking joke You're getting out of me this Oh man Just kidding I'll keep trying I believe in you I keep trying to work sombrero in there. Michael Bolton Potato is pretty hard to top from last week.

I can't promise whether Michael Bonn Potato would be coming. Why am I giving him so much airtime? He was really horrible to me. Fuck him. It's all right. It's not in a good light, to be fair. That's true. Last week, we left off with Marsha Clark, prosecutor laying out a very straightforward case. Let us do a very quick.

reload so no one gets lost this week and ends up in the back of a bronco a 25 miles an hour on the 405 no one ever wants to be on the 405 with a fucking slice a domino's pizza and a glass of orange shoes compulsory consumption for this week's episode yeah no one's doing like commemorative rallies like the Lundy 300 in L.A because the traffic's so horrific you just everyone would murder you can you imagine can you imagine everybody everybody hires white broncos, orders the dominoes and gets a fucking pint of orange juice and just goes for a very slow drive. Yeah, the world economy crashes because no one can get to work.

Anyway, as stated in last week's episode, we shall not be even entertaining a reality in which OJ didn't do it. And now that's out of the way. Here we go again. Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman were hacked to death. by O.J. Simpson, somewhere between 10 and 11 p.m. on the 13th of June, 1994. In the dead of night, a blood-soaked dog, named after a waste of space, led a couple of civilians to Nicole's house. Outside the South Bundy address were two brutalised corpses, footprints, a discarded knitted hat, a left-handed leather glove,

and a whole lot of blood belonging to O.J. Simpson. Johnny Cochran, in his closing statements, he's like, I'm just Johnny Cochran in a hat. It's not a disguise. However, Navy SEALs are trained to conceal themselves at night wearing hats exactly like that, and that will be important later on. It's his hat. Okay. Got it. I believe you. Like the little fake moustache. I'm not a man wearing a fake moustache.

I'm just a man in a fake moustache not wearing it to disguise myself I just lack facial hair He literally says He was like oh I only have the disguise in my car because I wanted to go to a theme park with my children Without being disturbed

Oh my god that man looks like OJ Simpson Oh wait but he's got a tiny little mustache Fuck it out Right sorry Back to Reload For LAPD detectives were dispatched to O.J. Simpson's home to break the news that his ex-wife was dead. One of those four, Detective Mark Fuhrman, the worst possible one of the four detectives,

discovered a right-handed glove, covered in a mixture of Nicole Brown's blood and Ron Goldman's blood. And every step of the way, faded star O.J. Simpson was given outrageously preferential treatment by the Los Angeles Police Department, which really came back to bite them in the ass when instead of handing himself in, he orchestrated the most famous, but slowest, car chase of all time. There's some joke in there about Domino's 30 minutes or less. Maybe in another life. Maybe in a sunny a month.

So Simpsons' defense attorneys, known as the Dream Team, fronted by Johnny Cochran and Robert Cocktails with Hitler Shapiro knew that they couldn't beat the case on the evidence because there was so much of that evidence pointing at OJ Simpson being incredibly absolutely 100% guilty. What makes the cocktails with Hitler thing so poignant is that if you can't tell by his surname, Robert Shapiro's Jewish. I actually watched a documentary last night.

About Robert Shapiro. No, about Hitler on Channel 4. And I was like, I just finished doing a big old painting stint. I'd done my share. So I was like, I'm done now. So I'm going to lay down on the sofa that was covered in plastic sheeting. It felt very dexter, but I was like, I can't move. So I was laying there, I was like, just going to put the TV on.

And along came a documentary about Hitler. It was quite interesting. It's not over yet. Because it's one of those weird ones. I've split it up and they're going to release it episode by episode like every week. I was like, what? Like, we don't know about Hitler. Yeah.

I was like, just release it all now. Breaking news. While I'm in the mood to watch this. And it was basically about this guy who had been in the American army and he was like one of the first people that had gone into Hitler's bunker after he had shot himself. Or did he go on? And he cut a bit of the sofa that was covered in blood

and took it away as a little memento to be like Hitler is dead and I have the proof because here's a little swatch of quite a nice sofa with some blood on it. And he had kept it and his grandson now had it and it was like in this museum blah blah blah And so they basically cut a bit off to test if it was Hitler's DNA. And then they were like basically trying to decode Hitler's ancestry and any like neurological, psychological things that they can evaluate from it.

And one of the ongoing myths around Hitler was that he knew that he was secretly of Jewish ancestry. And he was very ashamed of that. And that's why he had his body burned before the Allied forces could get their hands on it, blah, blah, blah, so that they could never discover the truth. And I'm only one episode in. And they were like, no, no Jewish ancestry. So there you go. One ball, though.

One ball, though, apparently. Apparently they do talk about that in episode too. There you go. I might as well have got something out of that episode I watched. Totally derailed myself. Where are we? So yes, Robert. Gotthales with Hitler Shapiro.

They know they can't beat the case. And so they play dirty and they were very, very good at it. Now on the other side, team prosecution, you've got idealistic Marsha Clark and her co-prosecutor, Christopher Darden, who were very, very full of hope. Because they thought the evidence speaks for itself. But that only works if the jury are actually listening.

The People v. O.J. Simpson dragged on for longer than anyone thought was possible. Hearings were delayed again and again, often for things that just weren't that important. By the time anything actually important was said, the jury just didn't care anymore. That's how you kill it as well. You bore the jury to tears. Let's get going this week with some more witnesses. I do understand why Marsha Clark and Christopher Darden, who's not that experience. Like, Marcia's the pro.

I understand why they think they've got it. I understand why they take the risks they take. I understand why they do what they do, because it's so obvious. But again, like I said last week, it just highlights how the whole system can be turned on its head. if your lawyer is good enough, and enough of a piece of shit. Let's kick off with Alan Park, who is the driver who took OJ to the airport,

the night of the murders, and he made his 1145 flight to Chicago. Alan Park told the story of that night in the stand. It was his first job for a properly famous person, so his recollections were clear. Alan Park told the court that when he first arrived at Rockingham, no one answered the door, so he waited outside. He called his boss, and he called his mum. He could see from the street that there was a light on in the house. At 10.52 p.m. Alan Park's boss rang him back.

And that is when Alan Parks saw a man who looked a lot like O.J. Simpson, walk into the house. So he rang the bell again, and would you know it this time? O.J. Simpson answered. He said he'd overslept and that he would be right out. at 10.52 p.m. And did he say, oh, you might have seen my twin brother. He's got a tiny little mustache.

It was just him coming in. He woke me up. And he was like, no, but I did see Michael Bolton on a potato. Him too. Simpson came out of his house with a black duffel bag. And just after 11, him and Alan Park headed to LAX. According to the prosecution, that bag contained the clothes that OJ was well. wearing as he committed the murders, except the hat and gloves that he lost along his way.

Like a fucking stupid child. Uh-huh. Who's just committed a double homicide? Where are your gloves? They're going to have to start sewing them into your coat, you stupid little murderer. O.J. Simpson with mittens on a string is an image that I will keep for the rest of my life.

Wouldn't I lost him? Wouldn't have gone to prison for murder, but he didn't. Spoilers. Anyway, the equivalent of TSA agent, I say that because I'm not sure TSA existed back in the 90s, but whatever. An airport worker also testified that they saw OJ Simpson standing very near to a bin in the terminal.

And I would bet Mabel's life. That bin is exactly where that black duffel bag ended up because nobody ever saw it again. Hello, I'm Alice Levine. And I'm Matt Ford. And we're the hosts of British Scandal. Our latest series has a very loose, festive theme. It's about the other virgins baby.

But we're not talking cosy stable in Bethlehem. We're talking roaring 1920s London, where Christabel Russell is living her best life. She's married into an aristocratic family who want one thing, an heir. And the tricky bit is, the Russell marriage is a no-sex deal. So when Christabel becomes pregnant, is it a miracle?

Cue a national scandal and sensational trial. Follow British scandal wherever you get your podcast, or listen early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. If you can't get enough true crime in your life, you have to check out Always True Crime and their brilliant network of podcasts. There's honestly so much to get stuck into. First up, toil and trouble.

It's a totally bingable six-part series hosted by our mates, Hannah George and Taylor Glenn, from drunk women solving crime. But this is them, like you've never heard them before, Maybe sober, who knows. They go deep into a story that starts with magic and taro and ends up in a courtroom. With interviews from the family at the heart of it all, it's gripping, emotional. And one of those cases where you keep asking yourself,

where's the line between care and control? And who crossed it? And if you love staying on top of all of the true crime stories everybody is talking about, you will have to add true crime catch up into your weekly routine. Adam Lloyd and Stuart Blues, two brilliant podcasters who really know their stuff, sit down each week to chat through the cases gripping the nation. They spotlight the stories you might have missed, revisit infamous crimes from years gone by,

and basically keep you in the loop with everything happening in the true crime world. Don't pretend like you don't want it, you freaks. Pervert. You can listen to both of those shows right now. Just search for toil and trouble or true crime catch-up or both wherever you get your podcasts. Or head to alwaystruecrime.com to find even more great listens. With that, let's get a glovin.

The Rockingham glove, the right-hand one, with the two victims' blood on it, was discovered by none other than Detective Mark Furman. Marsha Clark assured the jury that he was a good man and a reliable witness. And that, dear friends, was Marsha's living. biggest miss. Fate could have dealt Johnny Cochran no better cop than Detective Mark Furman. He was as racist as racist they come. And it wasn't just hearsay. It was on LAPD record and on tape. Yeah, the LAPD record of this is kind of why Marcia doesn't understand

how serious it is. So Mark Furman was part of a pension fraud scheme in which he was trying to extort money out of the LAPD by saying he had been psychologically damaged by the work he had been forced to do. He doesn't get away with it, but because he's submitting these psychiatric reports to try and get pension money, it's all on paper, all of these, like, saying that having to deal with really difficult people at gangs, blah, blah, blah, and he just says these like wild things, which he obviously says, well, I only said them because I was trying to get. I was just trying to do a little fraud. Exactly. And that doesn't make me an unreliable witness in a murder case. And Mark Furman, he actually appears in the ESPN documentary and a couple of other ones, I think.

But that's his major one. He really thought, I mean, he's an astonishingly arrogant man anyway. He thought because he was the one that found the glove, the LAPD would protect him to the ends of the earth. And he wasn't actually that wrong, but he's like, I'm pivotal. They need me. So I'm not going to get fucked over by the prosecution they need me. Yeah, I just Googled a picture of him. The first one that comes up is him with a little smirk.

on his face, which tells you everything you need to know. Yep, exactly. So, yeah, Furman is the archetypical bullying racist LAPD cop. Everything that is suspected of the LAPD, Mark Farman does it times 100 million, and he's proud of it. He claimed to pull over black men just for the sake of it, especially if they had a white woman with them. He drew swastikas on his colleague's lockers,

and he used slurs any chance he got. Marsha Clark was made aware of these reports, but called them bullshit being brought out by the defence. They were doing a lot of that, except these ones, unfortunately, were very true. Yeah, yeah. And so she stuck with Mark Furman. She really didn't have to include him as a witness, but she did. Yeah, there's so many, especially this week, we'll come across, like, these really near misses that come out of the DA offices. There was no reason to get Mark Furman on the stand.

She made a bad call. She did. I wonder though, and this is just me asking this question, I wonder though if she hadn't, would the defence have brought Mark Furman as a witness anyway? Yes. To point out how racist he was. So I think she's going into this very naively,

not thinking about Mark Furman. Yes. But I think ultimately he would have been brought forward and this would have come out anyway because the defence would have done it. Yes, your voice. You're right, because the defence don't actually have to prove anything. All they have to do is rock the boat just enough.

And he would have been the biggest fucking iceberg they needed. They don't need to rock it at all. Here's what the defence say that Mark Furman did. This is what they're arguing in the courtroom. He picked up the glove from the crime scene. And then he wiped blood from that glove all over the Bronco. And then he pretends to find it behind the bungal. forget all of the other evidence

who, bang in the middle of the AIDS crisis, is slopping blood around. It's certainly not Mark Furman. Anyway, they might as well have said that he killed Nicole Brown himself to make it look like OJ Simpson on it. Yes. And this is the final nail. Not even the final, it's the biggest nail

in the prosecution's coffin. Effley Bailey was obviously allowed to have a crack at Mark Furman during cross-examination. And he asked him if he had ever said the N-word. And Mark Furman says no. And he's like, are you sure you've never used that word in the last 10 years? And he says, no, I haven't. But he doesn't say N-word. He says what it actually is.

And Effley Bailey had used that exact tactic before. He knew the effect that that word would have on the majority black jewelry in a racially divided Los Angeles, a very angry, angry Los Angeles. Fresh off the back of the Rodney King riots. And Effley Bailey knew damn well that Detective Mark Furman did use the N-word. He had it on tape. A woman called Laura McKinney had got in touch with the Dream Team after seeing Detective Furman on the news. She had met him about 10 years before and had used him.

as a source for a police drama pilot that she was writing at the time. Laura conducted 12 interviews with Mark Furman, describing his years on the force. Not only were there N-words littered throughout these recordings. Furman also claimed that he was a member of a society within the LAPD called Men Against Women, or More M-A-W, and that is what McKinney ended up calling her screenplay. No one bought it. She just went to go and teach screenwriting. Anyway, there's about 12 hours where Mark Furman is saying that he's tortured gang members, he'd covered up murders, planted evidence to get black men in trouble, especially if they're going out with white women, he doesn't like that, going out of his way to ensure that black suspects were convicted.

He even declined to give certain details if the statute of limitations wasn't up on that particular crime that he was describing. So some people say he was jazzing it up to make it sound sensational because he wants to impress this woman who's writing a screenplay. He wants to seem dangerous. Maybe. Flee Bailey doesn't give a shit about that. It doesn't matter. The jury don't give a shit about that. Like it's on tape.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's literally, yeah, when you say it's the biggest snail, yeah, of course it is. It's the equivalent of the blood trial, but for the fucking defence. And because Marsha in her run up has said that he's a good man and a solid witness and she's aligned herself unknowingly. She doesn't know this is going to happen, obviously, but she's fucked as soon as this happens. So it's all over. And the disgraced detective super slagged off, a female woman. officer that he had also served under.

And guess who that female officer was? It was, of course, Captain Margaret York. If that's name sounds familiar, it's because Captain Margaret York is, of course, Judge Itto's wife. And he is on tape telling Laura McKinney that York sucked and fucked her way to the top. It's the judge's one. It could not be any worse. It quite literally could not be worse. Which is why, obviously, the defence, when they saw Judge Ito, they were like, yummy.

I don't think they knew this. The tapes get sent to the mid-trial. The judge has already been selected. Can you imagine? Yeah. The joy. If it had happened not mid-trial, Marsha would have known about it. Sure.

Yeah. Discovery. This hardly ingratiated the prosecution, but that was just a minor problem, really. The very big problem was that during pre-trial statements, Captain Margaret York. said that she didn't have any particular memory of Detective Mark Furman, which seems unlikely as he felt so strongly about her. So, if Captain Margaret York lied about her relationship to Mark Furman during pretrial, that meant a mistrial for O.J. Simpson.

It didn't come to that, but it easily could have. In the end, only a few clips from the tapes were allowed to be played for the jury. But that was honestly all it took. The prosecution had aligned themselves with the worst possible witness. So now not only is the prosecution looked upon poorly by the majority black jury because Marsha Clark is there saying that Mark Furman is a good man and he's on tape saying all sorts of N words. But also the judge is like, you called this man a good man

who's on tape slagging my wife off. It's just so bad all around. This is just diabolical. unless you're Johnny Cochran Unless you're Johnny Cochran In which case you're like fucking out Maybe he didn't do it When the men against women tape showed up

Johnny Cochran realized This wasn't just hung Jewryville anymore The Dream Team could roll right through to a quittletown And that's hilarious thing Is that Johnny Cochran Like doesn't go into this It seems believing that that's the outcome that he could get No.

It's like he's shooting for a mistrial, right? He's shooting for a hung jury. Yeah. Oh, sorry, yes, a hung jury. Until those tapes come in and then he's like, thank you, Jesus. Maybe I am doing the right thing and maybe I'm not a horrible person. After Mark Furman was revealed to be exactly what everyone believed the LAPD to be, Johnny Cochran asked the majority black jury,

are you with the man or are you with the brothers? The Dream Team even wore African pattern ties to trial a move that Judge Itto could have forbidden he is well within his rights to do that no one was allowed to wear the equivalent of a Blue Lives Matter pin for example

but he didn't he was just like nice tie the world outside naturally was clamouring for the Furman tapes to be released to the press in full I don't believe they ever were. There's snippets out there for sure, but the whole 12 hours I don't believe

were ever. And the stuff he's saying is like rounding up all black people and burning them. Like it's like genocide stuff. Anyway, quite understandably, tensions were higher than ever and Johnny Cochran did all he could to fuel the fire. The city was clamouring for the LAPD to pay for their sins. It looked like the days of the LAPD. oppressing black citizens and acting with impunity were over and O.J. Simpson became a symbol of that struggle. Double murderer. It's perverse. Truly, that's the only word. A microcosm of this battle played out amongst the jury. By the time the African ties were cracked out, the jury were already ready to kill each other. For the entire trial, the 12 jurors and 12 alternates were totally

sequestered. They were not allowed TV or newspapers or to have the keys to their own room at night. They were overseen by sheriffs and many complained that the white jurors received preferential treatment. Again, the drama The People v. O.J. Simpson does this very well where like anyone is going to be fucking irritated. They have to have conjugal visits with their partners. They have to watch TV all together in the same room. It's literally like being in prison. They are all at their wits end. It's such a bad idea. It's such a bad idea to sequester a jury because, yeah, you just get tensions high and people making decisions based on wanting to get their fuck out of that situation as quickly as possible. And this is what I was, we were

talking about this the other day. I can't remember what episode, but why I think this has made me lose any shred of faith I had in the jury system. Because now, even if you were to sequester a jury, which isn't a good idea anyway, there's too much information. And you cannot have a, you cannot have an uninformed jury. Like, you cannot guarantee a fair trial. And then on top of that chucking, you know, devious experts that can be paid off to do whatever, it's a very, very poor system. And some people may say, well, you know, it's the best system we have. I don't know.

I don't know. Norway have what are called lay judges. A friend of mine is one. and that is, you know, possibly, I need to read more about it, but like, so it is normal people, but they have training. Yeah, it's tricky, isn't it? Because it's like, obviously in this country, not to totally derail this conversation. In this country right now, there's a big conversation about, like, the prosecution's decisions about which cases to take forward. The police's appetite to investigate certain cases depending on who the victim is, who the perpetrator is, et cetera, et cetera. And then if you add on top of that a feeling of, oh, well, now the public aren't even involved in the jury and it's done by people within that.

And England and Wales system is very different to the American system, where we already have such a lack of transparency over anything that's going on. I think here it would be tricky, although I don't think the jury system is clearly working as intended, that if you add that extra layer of like, oh, no, we will also choose who decides. I don't know if you'll just lose even more trust in the system. It's not easy. It's not easy. But anyway, people are getting pissed. They're getting cabin fever while they're all fucking hunkered down and sequestered with each other. And a fun quirk of the L.A. Sheriff's Department is that all sheriffs have to start their careers with two years of working in the county jail,

which not unsurprisingly propagated a feeling that every deputy treated the public like inmates until they retired. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Even after the painstaking selection process, a lot of the jurors had to be dismissed during the trial. Which obviously just delays things even more. One worked for hurts and had met Oja. Another had been convicted of kidnapping his girlfriend, and one woman had been raped twice by her husband,

and had a restraining order out against him. But on the selection questionnaire, she had claimed to have no connection to domestic violence. And then there was Florio Bunton. A middle-aged white woman who the dream team were most worried about voting to convict. But then one day, magically, an anonymous letter came in that knocked her off the jury. This letter came from someone claiming to work at a publishers who knew that Florio had agreed to a book deal to write some sort of inside juror scoop on the trial. Floreo and her lawyer

whose name is Rex T. Reeves. Stop it. Come on, Rex T. Reeves. That's the only reason I included it. Chom, chom. I'm a T-Rex lawyer. Look at my little T-Rex hands. I've got a tie. Anyway, Floreo and her lawyer,

who may or may not be a dinosaur, have always insisted that there was never a book deal. The letter was totally fraudulent. and she never wrote a book she was still dismissed the letter doesn't name her it just says you know female 40s her husband has pneumonia

yeah it was very obvious also they are allowed to do that in the US aren't they? Not while they're sitting sure not before a verdict I don't think yeah they're insinuating that she's already sharing that information and also communicating with the outside world

okay sure sure sure okay yeah And there was something to do with, like, passing a note between her and another juror, possibly an alternate, but that didn't really mean that they're allowed to do. It's just interesting that the one woman that the defense is most worried about gets knocked out this way. Isn't it just the famously clean-handed, fair play defense team? Cocktails with Hitler Shapiro wouldn't have thought of this one. He just takes a sombrero off for a second. Most people are in agreement that this letter came from some exterior Simpson supporter. I think it was Shapiro.

I said, no matter how fucking obsessed you were with O.J. Simpson, you are not going to be looking at the jury and have an understanding enough of like, oh, that's the woman I need to get rid of. Let me write a secret letter about her. Of course it was fucking Johnny Cockrood. Oh, my God. Yeah, and it, I mean, it worked. Yes, it did.

Florio Bunton was replaced with an alternate, and the show went on. To when the L.A. County coroner took the stand at trial, he confirmed that although the autopsies were carried out very poorly, he was of the opinion, both Ron and Nicole had been killed by the same singular killer. Whoever had incapacitated Nicole with a blow to the back of her head and then leaned over her, pulled her head up and slit her throat, which is how Navy SEALs, by the way, are trained to kill, had also killed Ron Goldman.

And coming back to the Navy SEAL thing, because as Hannah mentioned last week, this is very important. Because who had just filmed a pilot for which he was trained in combat by real-life Navy SEALs? Well, it's not me. It's O.J. Fawking Simpson. It was called the Frogman, and it's about Navy Seals, and he was training for weeks. So that particular method of killing is how they're taught to do it.

And also they are taught to disguise themselves at night by wearing black knitted hats. Bit of a quinkered ink, isn't it? So many. So with all of this, the DA's office were clawing back some serious ground, and it started to look up, even for. more when they found a sales receipt for those gloves. It's so close. They so nearly do it.

The gloves discovered at both Rockingham and South Bundy were brown, leather, airas lights in XL. Product code 70263. And although they were made by the largest glove manufacturer on the planet, this particular model were very rare. Only 200 of them! had ever been sold, and you could only buy them at Bloomingdale's. Nicole Brown had purchased two such pairs on the 18th of December 1990 in the flagship store in New York City, and the prosecution had the sales receipt.

This was devastating for Team Simpson, or at least it should have been. It's literally the opposite of what you should do if you're going to do a murder. Not wear incredibly rare Only 200 pairs exist Can't buy on the internet Can only buy in a very specific store gloves And then leave one of them behind

And then leave the other one in your own fucking garden Covered in blood The blood of the victims My God You couldn't make it up You would sound like you'd been hit in the head If you'd made this up as a plotline I feel like I've been hit in the head

Happy Christmas And then To really bring it home Uh huh And against Marsha Clark's will, I would add, Christopher Darden, co-prosecutor, decided the best way to seal the deal, to prove to the jury that those gloves are O.J. Simpson's gloves was to Cinderella OJ's massive hands into those little gloves.

It could not have gone worse. Replica gloves had been disallowed. Fair enough, their leather, that, like, changes. That meant that because OJ is having to try on the actual gloves and the actual gloves are evidence, he has to wear latex gloves in order to handle them. So that's already a difference. And OJ almost certainly stopped taking his arthritis medication to make his hands swell up. His ex-sports manager claims that it was his idea.

But again, I think it's this other, like everyone is just trying to get in on it. I don't know or care who's idea. dear it was. And it's also not even the most brazen thing about it. It's the thing that people talk about the most. But if you actually watch him, he like sticks his thumbs out at like odd accent. It's, there's no one. No one is getting gloves on like that. It's impossible. Christopher Darden even asked Judge Itto to insist that OJ Simpson put the gloves on like a normal person. But he didn't. And damage done.

OJ just turns to Johnny Cochran and goes, too tight. And just like Marcia Clark didn't need to get Mark Furman on the stand. Christopher Dalton really did not need to get OJ to try on those gloves. The receipt would have been enough. I think he is so overwhelmed by the showmanship of what the dream team are doing. He's trying to beat them at their own game. I think he's like, oh, I'm taking a risk.

I'm going out there. And he just fails. Yeah. No, you're right. That does make sense. It's like a powerful vision, powerful image. If you've got OJ standing there with the blood-soaked glove on his hand. Yes.

But in reality, yes, a receipt for an extra large pair of gloves, one of which was found at each of the fucking properties would have been enough. Oh, my God. So prosecution brought more forensic discoveries to. An expert confirmed that the shoe prints at the South Bundy House were made by size 12 Bruno Magley shoes, worn by an individual over six foot. There was also a footprint inside Simpson's Wonkily Park Bronco.

There was made by guess what? The same shoe worn by the same size person. The knitted hat found at Ron Goldman's, feet was covered in hairs confirmed to be OJ's. Ron Goldman's shirt was the same story. The right glove recovered at Rockingham had Nicole's hair on it and fibres from Ron Goldman's shirt. The prosecution's case lasted 92 days, included 58 witnesses and 488 exhibits.

They didn't even include the Bronco chase in their argument, thinking that it wouldn't have made a difference. And they were right, because none of it was enough. The gloves didn't fit to who gives a fucking shirt. Which is what I would said of my closing statement, if I were Johnny Cochran. After the prosecution rested, the dream team spent their time painting OJ Simpson as a loving father, son and a black man who against the odds made it in a white world and was paying the price for it. They attempted to poke holes in Marsh's timeline, but they couldn't really. There's a lot of chat about whether the blog actually barked at 10.15, but I haven't included it because it's fucking irrelevant, it doesn't matter. Cochran also tried to argue that

OJ Simpson was not physically fit enough to have carried out an attack, which was disproven by a 70-minute unreleased exercise video that OJ had recently filmed called Minimum Maintenance for Men, in which he is quite clearly literally fighting fit. And in this video, whilst OJ's shadow boxing, he says, to camera, get your space in, if you're working out with your wife, you know what I mean, you can always blame it on working out. And what that is, children, is a convicted wife-beater, joking about beating his wife at a murder trial. And it still made no difference. No. I don't think that the people that acquitted him didn't think he did I think they were just like

fair's fair I don't want him to go to prison that's what it feels like to me how can you be faced with this level of evidence and be like yes the prosecution fuck up the defence is doing a very good job

come on come the fuck on no way no I think they were like like you said OJ Simpson became a symbol of like we are no longer going to be oppressed by the LAPD and by the just

system and all of that, and he is not going to go to prison for this. And that's what it feels like, in all honesty. Now, in a very smart move, OJ Simpson never took the stand himself during the trial. He was allowed to give a closing monologue. There was such a stroll down fucking narcissism lane that Judge Itto himself actually cut OJ off mid-sentence. Okay. All right. In her closing statement, Marcia did all she could to claw back the jury, arguing that Mark Furman was the very worst the LAPD had to offer. But that didn't change the fact that all of the actual evidence led straight to one person. Not a single juror wrote down a word, she said.

When it was his turn, Johnny Cochran came to court accompanied by his fruit of Islam security detail. In his statement, he compared Mark Furman to Hitler and told the jury that they had a society, or responsibility to stop him. Bingo. Because we all know what happened the last time a man like him was not stopped, meaning the Third Reich, presumably. World War II. He's like, if you let Detective Mark Thurman get away with this,

World War III will be your fault. It's a very, very obvious manipulation of the jury. And when it came to the gloves, well, Johnny Cochran, as I'm sure you've all heard. He put it simply, if the glove don't fit, you must acquit. A defense later employed by Saskatch in South Park. In 1993, three eight-year-old boys were brutally murdered in West Memphis, Arkansas. As the small-town local police struggled to solve the crime, Rumors soon spread that the killings were the work of a satanic cult.

Suspicion landed on three local teenagers, but there was no real evidence linking them to the murders. Still, that would not protect them. Hi, I'm Lindsay Graham, the host of Wondry Show American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our latest series, three teenage boys are falsely accused of a vicious triple homicide. But their story doesn't end with their trials were convicted. Instead, their plight will capture the imagination of the entire country and spark a campaign for justice that will last for almost two decades. Follow American Scandal on the Wondria, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can binge all episodes of American Scandal, The West Memphis 3, early and ad-free right now on Wondry Plus. You know those creepy stories that give you goosebumps? The ones that make you really question what's real? Well, what if I told you that some of the strangest, darkest, darkest, and most mysterious stories are not found. in haunted houses or abandoned forests, but instead, in hospital rooms and doctors' offices. Hi, I'm Mr. Ballin, the host of Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries. And each week on my podcast, you can expect to hear stories about bizarre illnesses no one can explain, miraculous recoveries that shouldn't have happened, and cases so baffling, they stumped even the best doctors.

So if you crave totally true and thoroughly twisted horror stories and mysteries, Mr. Ballin's medical mysteries should be your new go-to weekly show. Listen to Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries on the Wonderry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. On the 2nd of October, 1995, the tiredest jewelry in the universe entered into deliberation for three whole hours. And then they called in their decision. to the courthouse. For reference, the average jury deliberation time is one day per week of trial.

I don't know how they even got through the paperwork they have to do in three hours. The jury spent their 266th night in their hotel. And the hotel very nicely threw them a champagne reception. And they went back down to the courthouse the next day to deliver their verdict. By the end After all of the fuckery and the dismissals and the lying May, if I'd have been had to have been sequestered in a hotel for 266 days My sombrero will be on fire

Justice, fuck, justice, I want it to go home What does everybody want me to say? And like, I know I'm being facetious, but like that, of course that played a role. Of course that played a role. No one's going to be one angry man standing out being like, no, this isn't right. O.J. Simpson, you just be like, whatever, whatever. Let's go home to our fucking families and our jobs and our lives. Fuck.

There were nine black jurors, two white jurors, one Hispanic juror. Ron Goldman's sister Kim howled as the not guilty verdicts were spoken. And it was all over. The last juror to leave the courtroom raised his fist in a black power symbol before he left. And another said, we've got to preach. protect our own. You're right. They all just wanted to get the fuck out of there. And she's interesting, the one who said, you know, we've got to protect our own. They interview her years later. And she has now changed her mind, but she was like, I know that at the time

I thought I was doing the right thing. She says something like, well, back then we all had to look out for each other. Wild. Marsha Clark told Kim Goldman I'm so sorry kiddo I did everything I could and I think she did OJ Simpson

the double murderer walked out of that courtroom a free man and went straight back to Rockingham with Robert Kardashian where they threw a party the garage had been converted into a dark room

while the jury deliberated so the pictures from the freedom bashed could be sold to the press as fast as humanly possible. This is how sure his defence were that O.J. Simpson would get away with it. Robert Shapiro didn't go to the Freedom Party. He went to give an interview to Barbara Walters instead. He was so bitter that Johnny Cochran had stolen his spotlight. He undermined the whole defence, saying,

We played the race card, and we played it from the bottom of the deck, adding that he would never work with Bailey or Cochran again. even though the whole race card defence had been his idea to begin with. He is such a petulant child. He's so angry that Johnny Cochran became the star of the show. He just can't. He can't have it. Of course.

So yeah, you couldn't make it up. Basically, what you have here is OJ Simpson's own lawyer going on TV and essentially telling the nation that he was guilty and he just got away with it. I just thought of a possible another level to what Shapiro is doing here. I do think he's just fucked off. But I also think he knows that the backlash is coming and he wants to save himself. So he was just like, oh, well, you know what? It was disgusting, but it was completely out of my hands. Dial 0,800 cocktails with Hitler for my legal advice. I'm a really good person.

And that's the thing, isn't it? Because you can say, like we talked about in last week's episode, that of course, racism was a massive problem at that time in the US, the way the LAPD would have handled black people who had been accused of something like this, like there's no way I'm going to sit here and pretend that back then that was in any way equitable. Of course not. But the manipulation, the Johnny Cochran and the defense team, that absolutely Shapiro started the thinking of, used to manipulate that jury into freeing OJ Simpson, did nothing to serve them because they may have, quote, unquote, felt like they protected their own, but actually all it would have done is provide this huge

backlash where then they're the ones that are going to face. It's not just O.J. Simpson that faces the outcome of that backlash and the pendulum swinging the other way. They're going to feel it far more. If anything, you're going to have a bunch of people in the LAPD who feel like, fuck, that guy got away with it. We better double down on the way we police within black communities because look, he got away with it after he murdered a white woman. So they absolutely just serve as like completely manipulated victims in this situation just to get fucking O.J. Simpson off. And it's not even just the sort of policing clampdown idea, which you're absolutely right. It was just like civilians as well. There's, I think in the

Vanity Fair article, they give a few examples of like cultural impact. And there's this one guy who's like, I was walking and my friend gave some money to a beggar and the beggar looked up at him and the beggar's black. And he goes, you are the first white person to give me money since the verdict. Yeah. This is what I mean. The more you stoke racial tensions, The more you are going to have a backlash, pendulum swinging, and you might think you're doing the right thing in the moment. You might feel righteous, but it's going to bite you in the fucking ass. So, yeah, scary times.

But not for O.J., because he went right back to living at Rockingham. And for a few years, while his children lived with Nicole's parents, and he saw them every two weeks, eventually he got sole custody of them both. As I said last week, I reserved judgment on Nicole's family, but imagine having to drop your grandchildren off with the man who murdered your daughter every few weeks. No, I can't.

And look, I'm not saying that there's like a better way he could have murdered her, but the violence, he nearly decapitated her with a knife. That's not easy to do. And left her there for them to find her. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. I am happy to say that the initial celebration was quite short-lived, and I think that's what Robert Shapiro saw coming, which is why he doesn't go to the party where he knows those photographs are going to be because he orchestrated the building of the dark room. Most people distanced themselves from O.J. Simpson pretty quickly once they realized how clearly he definitely did it.

any initial deals that he was offered, collapsed, and signs went up all over his neighbourhood with slogans like, Welcome to Brentwood, Home of the Brentwood Butcher, murderer loose in Brentwood, etc., things like that. Being O.J. was never going to be the same again. And although the OJ Simpson trial was framed by Johnny Cochran as payback for Rodney King, Julia Love, Mittoll, etc., every black injustice in America...

After the verdict, the district attorney told TV cameras that the case was closed and there would be no push to find the real killers. The cultural impact of the OJ Simpson verdict is immeasurable and here are a collection of quotes that just capture it better than I can. So these are just people who are in and around the OJ Simpson case trial at the time. He has no life other than an afterlife. It's a tougher sentence than if he'd gone to prison. Ron Goldman and Nicole are the payment of the racial debt. Any girl he hits now can make his self-famous when she sells her story. O.J. Simpson had no idea how to move through a world that didn't love him.

And even Robert Kardashian eventually gave an interview saying that he had doubts about OJ's innocence. And this was confirmed by none other than Caitlin Jenner, who told Grazie that before he died, Robert Kardashian, said, I would have been okay if they got him at the first trial. I do think Robert Kardashian has a real crisis of conscience, and I think he got himself in too deep and didn't know how to backtrack. I mean, I don't know as much about him because I didn't do the research on this case, so I'll take your verdict on him.

But to me, looking at his progeny, it's hard for me to not feel like it's a fake game. But I may well be wrong. So the Dream Team, after everything, didn't stick around, really very long, apart from the odd comment in interviews, saying how unfair it was that an acquitted man was being treated as a pariah. Johnny Cochran went as far as to say it was un-American. This is a country that traditionally takes. people back who have fallen from grace.

Richard Nixon left office in disgrace and was later welcomed at the White House. Spiro Agnew's bust was put in the capital this year. There are a lot of other examples including Michael Milken. I don't look for sinister motives, but what is the difference between OJ and the others?

That's what he said. Yes, please, what are the differences between Richard Nixon and O.J. Simpson? Fucking loads. That's the difference. Johnny Gocrine. All alone, O.J. and a small gaggle of hangers-on made a new plan. Simpson wasn't going to be the embodiment of the Black American dream ever again. So he decided that if the country thought he was a murderer, well then who cared what else they thought of him. He moved to Florida, hung out with some questionable characters,

womanized and party-tard, and of course hosted the short-lived prank show, Juiced. in which O.J. Simpson would work at fast food drive-ins or dress up as a homeless man, employing the catchphrase, you've been juiced. And this was broadcast on pay-per-view and ended up on DVD, and you can actually still find remnants of it on YouTube today. The Flav-o-Flave-style music video intro is particularly tragic. And also just like the concept of like, I'm in a disguise. Surprise, it's me, unconvicted murderer.

Maybe it's very meta about how well OJ Simpson can be disguised. Oh my God. Wait till we get to fucking if I did it. Oh, no. If you want to talk about meta. Oh, no. I don't think I can. Oh.

But we must. We must. We can. We will. We must. I rewatched cheer. In 1997, O.J. Simpson was found legally liable for the deaths of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman at a civil trial brought against him by Ron Goldman's family.

Interesting. Why are Nicole's family? So quiet. I think he pays them off. I think they rely on him financially. I can imagine there's financial motives. And I'm sure he has sole custody of the kids. I'm sure he's also like, you fuck with me.

It's also that. You will never ever see your daughter's children again. I think it plays a big part in why they stay so quiet. And it's easy to judge them for that. But I think when kids are involved, that's hard. Yeah. According to Marsha Clark, the case presented at civil trial was exactly the same one that she had laid out, but they had O.J. on the stand. I love you, Marsha, but there's a bit more to it than that, isn't there?

But Simpson did not help himself. It just outright lies at every turn. The best one was when he claimed that he never owned the ugly-ass shoes that made the prints at the crime scene and then being smacked with a photo of him wearing them. I mean, he is a narcissist. Right. O.J. Simpson. Narcissist. I don't think that's a particularly controversial thing to say. He's got away with it in his entire life. He's always been able to lie, like from when he's a kid, like the principal's office thing you were telling us about last week. Then he gets away with a double homicide. He's exceptional. Of course he's standing in a fucking civil trial, being like, I don't fucking own those ugly-ass shoes.

Of course he lies about everything because he thinks he can get away with it because up until then he has. And also, for those interested, for those who practice, there is footage. of OJ Simpson wearing the murder gloves whilst commentating on NBC in 1990. You mean the one of only 200 that exists? Sick. There were other major differences that led to this trial going the opposite way, of course.

For a start, it was conducted in Santa Monica, which has a decidedly different jury pool than downtown L.A. And also the stakes are just a lot lower at civil trial. This time, the jury didn't need to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. They just needed to conclude that the defendant's guilt was more probable than not. And I'm guessing they weren't.

sequestered. At a civil trial, 51% is all you need. Yeah. And so a smiling, flippant Simpson was court ordered to pay the Goldman family $33 million in damages, which sounds like a win, but in reality, it's just a piece of paper. OJ Simpson didn't have $33 million in 1997, and he spent the rest of his life making sure that he never officially got $33 million. so that he would never have to pay the golden family a penny. And just to really highlight how unconcerned OJ Simpson was with this civil ruling. He went and got himself an ice cream after the trial concluded. A little treat. They'll pick me up.

Good job. Well done you. OJ then hired an estate manager to hide every asset he could. by 1997 Simpson was being paid $100,000 per public appearance but he somehow managed to conceal it all through a series of shell companies most of which were in his children's names but that is a tough dance to keep up forever and eventually O.J. Simpson lost Rockingham to the tax man he moved to Florida and got a girlfriend who looked exactly like Nicole that's not something I would say if it weren't true because I think it's disrespectful to Nicole

but she really does. I believe it. All out of ideas in 2006, Simpson wrote a book and he was paid $700,000 for the manuscript in advance. And we all know. You guys know the book was called

If I Did It. O'Don needed the money and also to start feeling like a husband. And Harper Collins knew that nothing would fly off the shelves faster than a confession from none other than the butcher of Brentwood himself. So a deal was struck.

Although Simpson refused to actually confess. Because that would, you know, require him to have a conscience. I have read it so you don't have to. Oh my God. How the fuck? Real struggle session. Did he actually write it? Do we know?

Kind of. Okay. There are ghostwriters. What is so bizarre about it is that all they can manage to get him to do, the deal is signed on the deal is signed on the, the basis that it will be a confession. And because of double jeopardy, they can't get him for it, but he refuses. And he's like, no, no, no, I thought this was a novel. And they're like, no, juice. We, come on, we gave you $700,000. And he was like, okay, the best I can do

is what I would have done if I did it. So, this book, book. The only good thing about is that it's quite short. All he does, right, is hit on the major beats of the prosecution story and either say they're lying or that actually it was all Nicole's fault for making him love her too much. That's where he says to Nicole's mother at her funeral. I loved her, I loved her too much. Or sometimes he would say that she'd actually decided that she wanted him back and he was done with her. So she was angry with him. So she was sleeping around. When discussing the 1989 New Year's in the one he literally can't deny happen because he was arrested and convicted for it. He claimed that all he did was push Nicole out of their bedroom

because they both had too much to drink and they both lost their tempers. The pushing onto the landing is what caused the bruising on her arms. However, the rest of her injuries were down to police lying to make it seem like it was all worse than it was. And or, because Nicole was hung over, had been crying and would stood under fluorescent lighting. So of course she looked terrible. And the book is full of that kind of like insidious, confident crushing, negging that we have all seen ruin friends. Just, this one, this one I had to stop listening to the audiobook.

This really took me very close to the edge. He's talking about how Nicole's struggling to like shift some baby weight after she has her, his children. and she would cry when she looked at in the mirror, he says. And his response was, so don't look in the mirror then. And then obviously when she is very upset, that's her fault. He just said, don't look. What's the problem with that? It's like, I know that when I see it.

He also added that Nicole's mum had warned OJ at the very beginning of his relationship that he should never let Nicole gain weight because she was a miserable. nightmare when she did. So when it comes to the night in question, here is what OJ claimed happened in his book. If I did it. See, this is why it's so difficult. It's not even what he says he was doing the night it happened. It's what he would have done if he did it, which he didn't.

He's claiming it's like an O.J. Simpson fan fiction. Written by O.J. Simpson. Yes, exactly. About the run of his life. A self-penned fan fiction. Exactly. Got it. But he says things like to the ghost writers when they're talking about which route he takes,

your imaginary OJ takes. And he's like, no, why would I have gone that way? I went that way. Obviously, who would turn right? No, I didn't go that way. And so he just like says stuff like that where you're just like, I can totally imagine. That's not what happened in the story.

Yes, exactly. That's exactly what it is. So right, let's listen to this, right. He says that his friend Charlie came over and told him that Nicole had shagged a load of his mates. Furious, OJ Simpson decided to go over to Nicole's house to read her the riot act and took Charlie with him, telling him, I'm tired of being the understanding ex-husband. X being the key word there. So what the fuck do you care who she's shag in?

But it's really hard on him. Sure. and really hard on his children presumably who, you know, it wouldn't be hard on them at all to find their nearly decapitated mother's body. So when pretend OJ and made up Charlie make it to Nicole's house in this story, pretend OJ puts on his gloves and he takes out the knife that he kept under the front seat of his car and Charlie tries to stop him. But Nicole flew at OJ and then she just fell to the floor

and then Ron Goldman, who knew karate. He might actually have done karate, but it's a big part of OJ. It's like telling of the story. Ron Goldman starts to circle Simpson. And that is all pretend OJ remembers. The next thing he knew, both Ron and Nicole were lying in pools of blood,

and then he noticed the knife in his hand. And decided it was just a bad dream. He had dreams about murdering Nicole before. This one wasn't that different. And that's when the dog started barking. And O.J. went back to Rockingham. Later on, O'Day Sinson would say that Charlie was just invented by the ghostwriters. It was, he'd never said it.

And actually, I didn't know this. Apparently, it's not uncommon for particularly high profile famous killers to have like an imaginary friend in their retelling of the story. I think there's quite a couple of famous assassins who have a similar thing where there just is this other person with them at all. all times who's just anyway just for the fuck of it here's what I think happened there will be no surprises OJ Simpson got himself

wound up about something he went over to Nicole's house to check if she had a man up there he'd done that before and he red misted and he killed Nicole and Ron Goldman and then he went back to rockingham and tried to cover it all up losing his hat and his gloves along the way the end it is that simple

and then he locked out with the most ridiculous series of events that happened afterwards that enabled him to get away with it. OJ found himself in court again, 13 years to the day he was acquitted of that particular crime. He had held two memorabilia dealers up at gunpoint in Las Vegas on the 13th of September 2007.

Simpson claimed that the men had stolen some of his belongings and he wanted them back, presumably so he could hide them from the Goldman family. Simpson forced his way into the two men's hotel room with five armed men with him or bar one took plea deals and testified against OJ Simpson and OJ tried all of his old tricks to try and get out of this one too but the dream team weren't there to save him

so the best he could manage was being stupid and being frustrated is not being a criminal he makes the same argument that he makes like decades before well it's my car I can smash it he's like they're my things I'm not stupid stealing them. A, yes, you are because they were seized because you owe the Goldman so much money. And that doesn't mean you can kidnap people and hold them hostage just because it's your

Heisman. No. In the end, OJ Simpson and his singular co-defendant were both found guilty of first-degree, kidnapping, armed robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, coercion with a deadly weapon, burglary while in possession of a deadly weapon, and conspiracy to commit a crime, kidnapping and robbery. It was unlucky 13s all around for O.J. Simpson. Johnny Cochran's office gave a statement claiming that it was a preposterous verdict and just a punishment for the acquittal 13 years before.

Even Johnny Cochran couldn't come up with anything better than that. O.J. Simpson was sentenced to 33 years. He did just nine and was released in 2017. When he made another feeble attempt to reinvent himself on the outside, his first ever tweet was that he had a little getting even to do Stop. But he didn't, and his run was almost over. O.J. Simpson died of prostate cancer on the 19th of April 2024 at the big old age of 76,

surrounded by his children and his grandchildren. And until the day he died, he had fans. Even people who knew he did it would still queue up to shake his hand and pay $150 for his autograph. Maybe to be that good. You have to be that bad. Can you be that good at something without losing it somewhere else? I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I have got some good news. Bizz. The book, if I did it, was never released by O'Day in its first form. Harper Collins pulled it, which means even Rupert Murdoch could say. see how utterly morally bankrupt this whole thing was. It caused outrage. They pull it.

And then, because the Goldman family have this ruling of $33 million, maybe even a little bit more, what they essentially had, Kim Goldman describes it's like, we had a credit card with $33 million on it to get the rights to that book. And that's what they did, because it's owed to them by O.J. Simpson. And now they have something that they can swap for it. And that's exactly what they did. And it was made even easier when two judges ruled that the company structure that OJ had set up was fraudulent. And it was just funneling it all back to him, just making it look like it wasn't.

And that is why, if you Google if I did it at OJ Simpson, that is why on the cover the if is so small because the Goldman family changed the title from if I did it to if is basically invisible, colon, confessions of a killer. I see. yes but they weren't given a particularly easy time for making that decision Denise Brown Nicole's sister comes after them like a fucking steam train and I don't really understand why she's just like just profiteers like money grubbing is disgusting blah blah blah I'm like what else can they do what have your family done yeah I'm sorry I don't want to come down hard on the on the Browns but I'm like why is she coming after the Goldman's like I really don't know and actually the book begins with

with a series of people like Ron's dad, his sister, all defending why the book exists and why they have chosen to do what they've done with it. Yeah. Yeah, they were given a really fucking hard time. Another four word comes from the ghostwriter, Pablo F. Venves. Pablo spends most of his prologue defending himself and insisting that everything he put in the book was said by OJ and not, as OJ later claimed,

made up. which he only did after Murdoch pulled the book, by the way. Kim and our family have since set up the Brong Goldman Foundation for Justice, which grants funds to organisations and programs that provide resources to victims and survivors of violent crimes. I have tried really hard to see what kind of work they are doing. I can't find it, but that doesn't mean that's not happening. And the copyright of their website says 2025 on it, so I believe that they are using that money in a positive wave.

So if you want to read if I did it, you don't have to feel bad about where that money is going. Kim Goldman also has a podcast. It's the Confronting OJ Simpson podcast. It's hosted by Kim Goldman. So if you need any more, which I can't imagine wanting to hear any more about information. Anyway, you can go and listen to Kim's podcast. And let's complete our circle. Yes, please.

Pablo. The ghost writer of If I Did It was the man who first heard Cato the Akito plaintively wail into the night. That's what I thought. when Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman were hacked to death by OJ Simpson. And I was like, am I imagining this? No, I did it on purpose. Fucking. That's what his book should have been called.

I did it on purpose. By OJ Simpson. There you go, the end. Oh, my God. What a touchdown. Fucking story. NFL words. Well done.

Thank you. Sports. Sports. Every sports. Yeah. It's one of those stories that, honestly, you guys, like, covering the more obvious bait stories is so much harder than, like, just looking at random obscure cases that we cover all year. Because there's just so much information. And this one is one that just feels so unbelievable.

But I am glad now, it is on record red-handed, have done, OJ Simpson. Tis done, tis there, tis the season. And I'm very grateful that we have done that now. and you guys have heard our thoughts on it and let's never talk about Ojo Simpson Merry Christmas Merry Christmas and a happy new year and yeah this is the last episode

of RedHander 2025 so just to say thank you very much guys for another fabulous year here at Red Handed for you know doing all the things you've done voting for us in the Signal Awards supporting us in all the episodes we've put out and next year is going to be even more exciting because

It's our 10-year anniversary next year. No, it isn't. Is it not? It's our nine-year anniversary. It's our nine-year anniversary next year. So stay tuned for that. 2027. But more excitingly than whatever the fuck anniversary it is

is the fact that we will hopefully, fingers crossed, be bringing you guys even more extra content next year. Because we are we doing a little restructed. Oh, right. We're not making more. I was like, what? We're not making more content. There's content that currently exists in places maybe that you can't hear it.

There may be, yes, that maybe we'll be coming out, sneaking out from behind that sneaky pay wall. So stay tuned for all that. We're very excited and have a lovely holiday. And we will see you all back here in January. Nine are my favourite number anyway. It's a much nicer number than 10. I agree.

Ten sounds so bait. Let's normalize celebrating the ninth anniversary of things. What's the ninth wedding anniversary? Like, what material is it? Oh, it's going to be something rubbish like a thimble. A thimble. Oh. An orange.

An O.J. Simpson. A justice sombrero. Something made out of orange peel. Michael Bolton on a potato. The ninth wedding anniversary is associated with traditional themes of willow and pottery and a modern theme of leather. I've never seen it where there's like multiple things for you. It's willow pottery and leather.

I'd rather have Malcolm Bolton on a potato. So, so. Let's say us that. Okay, great. Okay, guys, that's it. Goodbye. Bye.