Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1006 | The Pope is Wrong About Human Nature

Episode Date: May 21, 2024

Today, we discuss Pope Francis' recent comments about the fundamental goodness of human beings. The pope made the remarks in a "60 Minutes" interview with Norah O'Donnell and immediately sparked controversy online. We explain why he is wrong about this and explain the doctrine of total depravity. Plus, Harrison Butker's speech caused a stir over on "The View" when Sara Haines criticized the Catholic athlete for attending the Traditional Latin Mass, called Catholicism an "extreme religion," and suggested some people abuse Christianity by cherry-picking Bible verses. We take another look at Butker's speech and explain some of the parts we disagree with. Get your tickets for Share the Arrows: https://www.sharethearrows.com/ Go to blazetv.com/allie and use code allie for $20 off your BlazeTV subscription! --- Timecodes: (00:35) Announcements (04:28) Refresher on Harrison Butker speech (05:35) The Pope interview (11:14) My problem with his statements (26:55) The View blasts Harrison Butker (40:10) Harrison Butker's speech (52:51) Backlash against Butker (55:44) Christianity on American Idol --- Today's Sponsors: Seven Weeks Coffee — try Seven Weeks Coffee today at SevenWeeksCoffee.com and use the promo code: ALLIE to save 10% off your order. Good Ranchers — Change the way you buy meat today at GoodRanchers.com with code ALLIE to claim your free burgers for a year, get 100% American meat delivered, and support veterans this Memorial Day season.  A’del — try A'del's hand-crafted, artisan, small-batch cosmetics and use promo code ALLIE 25% off your first time purchase at AdelNaturalCosmetics.com Pre-Born — will you help rescue babies' lives? Donate by calling #250 & say keyword 'BABY' or go to Preborn.com/ALLIE. --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 1004 | Harrison Butker Calls Out IVF, Abortion, & Feminism | Guest: Ron Simmons https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1004-harrison-butker-calls-out-ivf-abortion-feminism/id1359249098?i=1000655842202 Ep 1005 | The Mysterious Death of Mica Miller https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1005-the-mysterious-death-of-mica-miller/id1359249098?i=1000656178593 Ep 997 | Why Do Catholics Pray to Mary? | Guest: Trent Horn https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-997-why-do-catholics-pray-to-mary-guest-trent-horn/id1359249098?i=1000654720287 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

The Pope says people are fundamentally good. Ooh, I've got some things to say about that. I also have a couple of disagreements with a few things that were said in Harrison Bucker's speech. We'll get into all of that and much more on today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use Code Alley at checkout. It's Goodmanachers.com, Code Alley.

Hey, guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Tuesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far. Okay, so yesterday's episode was kind of flagged by YouTube for being only appropriate for people above the age of 18. It was also given a trigger warning. So I don't know really how it affects the visibility and the reach of the video. It shouldn't affect you or our channel at all. But, I mean, I guess I understand it.

I don't understand everything that YouTube does, especially since a lot of the things that we talk about are disturbing. but I'm guessing maybe the mention of her name and just the nature of the story flagged it for YouTube. So hopefully that doesn't affect your ability to watch it or if you want to to share it. However, YouTube is always doing silly things. And of course, we know that they have a history of censorship when it comes to Christian and conservative perspective. So just make sure that you subscribe to the channel, that you, turn on notifications for the videos that you interact as much as possible. That helps us just be able to be seen by all of the right people.

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that's blazTV.com also you can meet me possibly or at least see me in person at the Share the Arrow's event this fall, September 28th. Guys, the response has been absolutely incredible. Rosaria Butterfield, Elisa Childers, Abby Halberstadt, music by Grammy Award winning artist Francesca Battistelli. It is going to be incredible. The hope is that all of the women in attendance, the thousands of you who will be in attendance, will feel empowered and equipped to, to take on the opposition, take on the enemy in every sphere of life that you occupy.

So this is not necessarily talking about something like running for office or going viral in a school board speech. We're talking about in motherhood, in your work, in your friendships, in all of your relationships, in every sphere that you occupy, every role that God has given you, how can you advance his truth with clarity and courage. So that is the goal of this conference is to give clarity and courage in an age of confusion and cowardice. And as you guys know, the speakers that we have, incredible, we're actually looking to add at least one other speaker, but I can't reveal that yet because we don't know if it's confirmed. But lots of fun developments when it comes to the Share the Arrow's event. Come by yourself. If you don't have anyone to come with,

come by yourself, you will leave with friends. If you want to come with friends, if you want to come with family members, that's awesome. It is an all-women's conference. So grab the women in your life, who you think would be edified by this. And come on, Dallas, Texas, September 28th, go to share the arrows.com. All the options for purchasing tickets are right there. All right. So I know that we've talked about this Harrison Bucker's speech a few times now, but it is still like the center of our cultural conversation. And I actually think that it's a really good conversation that's being had, even though I really disagree with a lot of the takes that are opposing him. And over the past couple weeks, or I guess week or so, couple episodes, we have highlighted the portions of the

speech that were most controversial. And then I explained why I agree with him. But then there are other parts of the speech that I don't exactly agree with. And I think it's important to outline my disagreements with some things that he said. And I don't want to get into some kind of semantic debate or I'm not trying to split hairs here. But actually I think it's important for my audience, for my female audience to hear a different perspective on some parts of his speech and a biblical perspective, I think, on some things that he said. This is going to be yet another kind of like Catholic-filled episode. Because before we talk about the Harrison Bucker's speech. I want to get into some disagreements that I have with the Pope and an interview that he gave

with 60 minutes over the weekend with Nora O'Donnell and some comments that he made that were so blatantly wrong and unbiblical. It's actually incredible and makes me very sad. And I hope that my Catholic listeners who I respect and love very much don't. take this as a personal attack on you. But of course, as a reformed Protestant, as someone who loves God's word, I am going to disagree when the Pope or when anyone says something that contradicts inerrant scriptures. So I guess we'll just go ahead and play the clip and you can hear it for yourself. And then I'll give some context in my response. Here's not one. People want to live. People forge ahead. And people are fundamentally.

good. We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good. Okay, so people are fundamentally good. We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good. So this is an even strange statement to hear from him in context of what he said just a few minutes before this when he said the church is like that.

everyone, everyone, everyone, that so-and-so is a sinner. Me too. I am a sinner. Everyone, the gospel is for everyone. And so he just kind of got finished saying that everyone is a sinner. And then he says, but people are fundamentally good. We are all fundamentally good, rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good. And so there's a seeming contradiction right there. But I actually do think that he, when he says that we are fundamentally good, that he does seem to be in alignment with Catholic teaching. For example, Michael Knowles, someone that I consider a very trustworthy authority on what Catholic doctrine says, he tweeted it's somewhat confusing, especially since the clip omits Pope Francis's affirmation just prior that we're all sinners, but the Pope's statement does not necessarily

contradict Catholic doctrine. We'll discuss on the show, he says. And then Liz Wheeler said this. And I love both of these people very much and respect them a lot. Obviously disagree with them theologically. But here's what she tweeted or posted on X. She said, stop freaking out people. Pope Francis said, we are all fundamentally good because God said that. God saw all that he had made and it was very good. Genesis 1131, four verses before. God created man and woman in his image and likeness, which is good, obviously, but we're all fallen because of original sin, which is why we require our Savior. So as you can imagine, I have a lot to say to all of that. All right. So here is my issue with this idea that we are fundamentally good, that our heart is good. Maybe there's a few sinners here and there, but our heart is. essentially good. My problem with that is that it's not true. According to God's infallible, authoritative, and an errant word. And I know my Catholic friends typically respond, as Trent Horn did when he was on this show with, well, here are all the problems with Solis Scripture. Okay,

I will, I'm not even talking about Solis Scripture right now. Let's not, let's put that to the side. Can we, can we acknowledge and affirm and agree on the fact that the Bible is authoritative, that it actually matters, right? That we need to live in accordance to the best of our ability by the power of the Holy Spirit with the Word of God. Like, we can all agree on that, right? We agree that the Bible is infallible, that it is inerrant, and that it actually matters. If we can just agree on that, then we can parse out our disagreements on doctrine. So my problem with what the Pope said is that it is blatantly contradicted by the Word of God. And here are just a few examples of that. Mark 1018, no one is good except God alone. Jesus said that. Jesus also said,

John 834, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. Jeremiah 179, the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately sick. Who can understand it? Ephesians 2.3, you've heard me quote this chapter many, many times because I think it is probably the best explanation of our state apart from Christ and what Christ actually accomplished for us on the cross and what salvation is, a gift given to us by grace through faith. Ephesians 2.3, we all once lived in the passions of our flesh and were by nature children of wrath like the rest of mankind. We were following the prince of the power of the air.

Romans 3 23 through 24, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and are justified by his grace as a gift. Apart from Christ, Scripture tells us, according to Ephesians 2.1, Romans 510, for example, we are dead in our sin. We are dead in our sin. We are enemies of God, apart from the justification that he offers us freely through Christ. Ezekiel 1119, we have hearts of stone. We are without hope, without Christ. And some of the responses, that I got to the outlining of my biblical rebuttal to what Pope Francis said, they included a couple things.

They included, well, this doctrine of total depravity. That's very new and very niche, and that was John Calvin, and that was Martin Luther. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You bringing up Martin Luther and John Calvin in response to my citing of scripture says more about the depth of your theology than mine. I did not bring them up. I am looking at scripture. If you think that that lends to the idea of total depravity or lends to the support of the idea of total depravity, then okay, I did not mention them.

I simply mentioned scripture. And then I have also seen this idea. Well, look at the beginning. When God said that creation was good, he made man and woman, he brought them together, he said that it was very good. There is a difference between saying a creation is good. A creation is well made. It is good because God made it. We are good because we are made in God's image. Therefore, we have value. We have innate worth. There is a difference between that and morally good. And I know that you all know that. I know that you all know that there's a difference between a moral good and a good creation. Yes, we are all made in the image of God. And God loves us so much, John 316, that he sent his only son to die for us. Jesus did not die for plants and animals.

He died for human beings that are made in God's image. And therefore, yes, we have inherent or inherent innate worth that no other creature in the universe has. That is all absolutely true. But But to say that we are all fundamentally good, that the heart is good, and there are just some rogue sinners out there, Pope Francis is not talking about that we are good creations made in God's image and therefore have value. Or else he wouldn't be talking about the heart. He wouldn't be talking about, oh, yeah, some people are sinners and but really not many people. I mean, that's just absolutely insane. I mean, this interview actually came after a special where they were talking about the Holocaust. And that is just one example in all of human history that provides us with evidence of just how sick and twisted the human heart is.

It's not something that has to be learned. It's actually something that is natural. Now, the doctrine of total depravity, if you want to call it that, that we are all actually fundamental. bad. We are fundamentally sinful. We gravitate towards selfishness rather than sacrifice. We gravitate towards, we gravitate towards our flesh. We gravitate towards satiating our most carnal desires. That fact that we do that we can literally see in the lives of the youngest children, and of course, throughout history, and most importantly, in the Bible itself, does. not mean that all human beings are as bad as they could be. Of course, there are people who are not

Christians, who are very polite people. They're very nice. They're very generous. They're very kind people. And they live a life that seems to emulate many Christian values. The idea that we are depraved, that we are fundamentally flawed and needy and dependent upon a savior for salvation does not mean that everyone who is not a Christian is actively as bad as Hitler, or as bad as they possibly could be. What it means is that we have no ability whatsoever to save ourselves. And as I said in my original response on X, if we are essentially good, then we do not need Jesus. If we are essentially good, then we do not need the gospel. If we don't need Jesus, if we don't need the gospel, then the gospel is not good news.

And if the gospel is not good news, then what are we even doing? Why does Christianity even exist? That is why Jesus came to die and was raised up to reconcile us people dead in our sin to a holy God because we are so unable to save ourselves. That is literally the distinction between Christianity and every other religion. Every other religion tells you how you can get to God. Every other religion will tell you that you're essentially good and that you just have to work on fully manifesting that. then you will finally make yourself acceptable, then you will work your way towards salvation. You will work your way toward heaven.

A little bit of your merit, a little bit of God's help. Yeah, every other religion tells you that. That's not the gospel. That's not Christianity. The distinction between Christianity and every other false religion is that we could not save ourselves. And so God had to come down the proverbial mountain and save us. That is the difference.

that's supposed to be the difference between Christianity and every other religion. So any religion, any flavor of religion that tells you that you have to work your way towards salvation, that you have to work your way towards heaven, work your way to being acceptable and worthy to God is not Christianity according to God's word. Because that is not the gospel. The gospel is that we could not earn it. that we were dead in our sin and by grace through faith, Jesus made us alive and reconciled us to a holy perfect God who could not accept sin. So Jesus made us clean. Him who knew no sin

became sin so that we could become the righteousness of God. It was Jesus's sacrifice that made us righteous. I think of the Heidelberg Catechism. It was written, in 1563, a team of ministers and university theologians coming together in Heidelberg. Most of you are probably familiar with this. If you're not, I really encourage you to get you a copy of the Heidelberg Catechism, teach it to your children, teach it to yourself. And the first question, what is your only comfort in life and in death? Answer, that I am not my own, but belong with body and soul, both in life and in death,

to my faithful Savior Jesus Christ. He has fully paid for all my sins with his precious blood and has set me free from all the power of the devil. He also preserves me in such a way that without the will of my heavenly Father, not a hair can fall from my head. Indeed, all things must work together for my salvation. Therefore, by His Holy Spirit, he also assures me of eternal life and makes me heartily willing and ready from now on to live for him.

It's all Christ. It's all his spirit. We do not have goodness in and of ourselves. And there are a few other verses that come to mind as well when it comes to this topic of depravity, whether we are all naturally good or bad. Romans 1423. But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

And so there's some context there to make that make a little bit more sense about what is being eaten. But really, that's not the important part when it comes to this conversation. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. That categorizes a whole lot of people, everyone, as sinners. Hebrews 116. And without faith, it is impossible to please God. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rules. rewards those who seek him. And of course, if we interpret scripture by scripture and context by

context, we see in Ephesians too that even those who seek him are only empowered to do so by the grace that he gives us as a gift. The Bible also teaches us that we are born dead in our transgression and sin. Psalm 51-5, behold, I was brought forth an iniquity and sinned my mother conceive me. Psalm 583, the wicked are estranged from the womb. They go astray from birth, speaking lies. And then of course, Ephesians 2, 1 through 5, as we've already, as we've already explained a few times, being children of wrath, it was only because God being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses. Can a dead person earn something? Can a dead person clean themselves off? Can a dead person make

themselves acceptable and worthy to God? Does a dead person have a sacrifice, offer. No, a dead person is helpless. A dead person stinks. A dead person can do nothing. Even when we are dead in our trespasses, God made us alive together with Christ by grace. You have been saved. To the Bible teaches that the unregenerate man is dead in transgressions, Ephesians 2.5, that we are held captive by sin, John 319, John 834, that we don't seek God apart from the power the Holy Spirit, Romans 3, 10 through 11, that we love darkness, John 319, that we have no understanding of God, 1 Corinthians 2, 14. And so we suppress God's truth. That's Romans 1,18. We live the lifestyle that seems right to us, Proverbs 14, 12. We see the gospel, biblical truth

as foolishness. 1 Corinthians 1, 18. Our mind is actually. hostile to God. We put ourselves in enmity with God apart from Christ. That is Romans 8, 7. So the fact of the matter is, is that, no, we are not fundamentally good. The heart is not fundamentally good. Yes, Ecclesiastes tells us that eternity is written on the human heart. So because we are made in God's image, because eternity is written on our hearts, there is I think an innate understanding of right and wrong of good and bad. But that does not mean that we have a natural propensity towards the good. We don't. I think human history again shows us that very obviously. So that would be my response to the Pope. He said some things in the interview

that I agreed with, some other things I disagreed with. I appreciate, for example, his stance on surrogacy. He's made very strong statements against surrogacy. And I've always appreciated the theology of the body that has been put forth by the Catholic Church and appreciate my Catholic friends, at least the Catholic friends that I have, their stance on abortion and reproductive technology. I think evangelicals have a little ways to catch up on those. things and having a full uniform theological, biblical understanding of the reproductive

world, reproductive technology, as well as abortion, all of that. So I appreciate that about my Catholic friends. But look, at the end of the day, what the Pope said, even if many Catholics disagree with it, which I'm thankful for, what the Pope said is anti-gospel. And without the gospel, there's no Christianity. And it is worth a thousand reformations to get the gospel right. I don't know if what I'm about to say is necessarily a defense of Catholicism, but it's certainly a defense of the many of the beliefs that Harrison Bucker espoused in his speech, which are traditionally Catholic values that I also as a reformed Protestant share. So Sarah Haynes, she's a co-host on The View. She says that, you know, it's fine to be a certain flavor of Christian. But this Harrison Bucker guy, this chiefs kicker, he's an extremist.

He's the scary kind that it's not okay to beat. Here's Sot 2. What this man is doing is not just a devout Catholic. This is someone who's practicing something called the traditional Latin Mass, which is a divergent from the majority of Catholics. It's compared to being cult-like and extremists like some religions in the Middle East and Asia. So this is a very extreme religion. And what bothers me about that as a Christian is that when people abuse Christianity, they often not only cherry pick from the Bible, they misinterpret and lie by omission.

Okay. So obviously, this is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. even if I don't agree with Harrison Buckhurst theology, for her to say that basically the only acceptable form of Christianity is a liberal form of Christianity that believes everything that the world believes, that is progressive, is absurd. Now, it's not surprising. That's what a lot of people like her believe that, sure, it's fine to be a Christian. It's fine to believe in the Bible as long as your interpretation aligns with worldly dogma. As long as your biblical beliefs never contradict the popular democratic talking points of the time, then you're fine. For her to say that it's

conservative Christians or conservative Catholics like Harrison Bucker that cherry pick. And what? It's liberal Christians who don't? I would love for her to sit here with me and tell me her her systematic approach to study in Scripture. What does she know about God? Explain to me a systematic theology. What is the gospel, Sarah Hans? Could you tell me what the gospel is? Do you even believe that the Word of God is inerrant? Do you believe that it's infallible? Do you believe that it's authoritative? Which verses are cherry-picked? Which verses are okay to cite? And which verses are not okay to cite? it's funny actually the real cherry pickers of scripture are so-called progressive Christians, which that is a paradox. I don't believe that exists. Progressivism will not let you because of its doctrines actually hold on to biblical, historic Christian doctrines. They just contradict each other. And so they actually have to cherry pick. So for example, they'll say, oh, well, you shouldn't look to the Bible to inform your views on abortion, for example, because that's some scary Christian nationalism, fascism extremism. You can't look at Psalm 139 that says that we were all knit together in our mother's womb and we have

purpose and were created with intentionality even from the moment of conception. You can't look at that. That's cherry picking somehow, even though in context that's really what it means. But they will look at, for example, Acts 2 that describes the early church of having everything in common and selling what they had in order to use the proceeds to care for their fellow Christians and they will say that that's the basis for communism and socialism. When that is actually taking something out of context and ignoring the blatant reality that those early Christians were not compelled by the government to give up their property and their money for the sake of other people. They were compelled by the power of the Holy

Spirit to voluntarily give what they had for other people. That wasn't the basis of a country. that wasn't the government barging in and saying, if you don't do this, I'll put you in jail or shoot you, which is what communism and socialism is. So I actually find very often that it is so-called progressive Christians who will cherry pick the Bible. Oh, the Old Testament says to love the foreigner. Okay, so the Old Testament says to love the foreigner, which you think erroneously is a prescription for open borders. But it also says the homosexuality is an abomination that anyone who practice. practices it should be stoned. Which one is it? Which one is it? Really, I think that we can look at the Old Testament and say, okay, we're not ancient Israel. We don't need to apply all of those laws to today.

And of course, Christians don't believe that because Jesus became our ceremonial cleansing. So we don't have to follow the cleansing laws. But we can look at God's law giving of the Old Testament in the Old Testament and say, okay, these are principles that are still good principles that we should still apply. And of course, that's what many of the founding Americans did in the creation of our Bill of Rights and the creation of our laws. And so, again, it's people like Sarah Haynes who don't have a systematic, holistic view of scripture, who really know very, very little about theology. They know very little about how to actually build a biblical worldview and what values should actually flow from scripture. I'm not claiming I have it all right. I'm not claiming that Harrison

Bucker has it all right. But to say that the only acceptable form of Christianity is the form that basically rejects all of the controversial stuff. It's weak. It's weak. And actually, it was interesting to hear Wuppie Goldberg because Wuppie Goldberg defended Harrison Bucker. She said, listen, I like when people say what they need to say. He's at a Catholic college. He's a staunch Catholic. like these are his beliefs and he's welcome to him. I don't have to believe him. I don't have to accept them. Okay,

Whoopi Goldberg seems to understand what almost everyone seems to have forgotten in this whole Harrison Buckker thing. I've been going back and forth with people who are like, I hate it when a man tells a woman what to do and tries to put a woman in her place and tells me that I have to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and that I can't have a career. That's just like I even heard.

Gosh, what's what's her name? Jenna Bush. What's her? I forget her, her married name. Jenna and Hoda on their show. She said her defense was, oh, you know, women should be able to do what they want to do. And let's just let everyone live their lives. It's fine.

This morally relativistic like mentality that every choice is equally valid and equally healthy and equally biblical. I just want to say like no one told you to do anything. Harrison Bucker is an individual, a Catholic who was given a speech at a Catholic university. He was asked to speak to Catholic students there about things that would align with Catholic doctrine. And that is what he did. No one forced you to even listen to it. You didn't have to acknowledge it. You didn't have to watch it.

You didn't have to talk about it. He has no authority over your life. even if I don't agree with everything that he said. Like he might not agree with me having this podcast. Do I feel attacked by him? Do I feel like he is going to come in here right now and rip this microphone away and tell me to go home? No.

It's okay for him to share his perspective. That does nothing. It doesn't affect you. It has no impact on your life. It has no impact on your life. Okay? Like you can just disagree with it. and you can agree with parts of it and say, cool, and move on.

You can even be offended by parts of it. I think that's fine too. There's nothing wrong necessarily about being offended by something. But to act like he is giving you orders and he has power invested in him, vested in him by God himself or by Joe Biden to come into your kitchen and tell you to cook more. It's just silly. It's just ridiculous. And I really think it comes across like the visceral reaction that a lot of women have to what Harrison Bucker said.

And if you don't know what I'm talking about, you can go listen to last week's episodes where we talk about these things about, where what he said about motherhood and the importance of family and how women should pursue that and shouldn't just be thinking about their career and money. I really think it comes across, like the anger comes across in a lot of ways is insecurity. And I saw someone ask this, which is a tough question to ask, like, are you mad at Harrison Bucker or are you mad that you're not married yet? Because those are two different things. Maybe you really are mad at Harrison Buckker, but maybe you're mad at your circumstance. And if that's the case, then it's not right to take that out on Harrison Bucker or anyone

who says that marriage is important or marriage is something that we should pursue. Sarah Haynes also went on to say, So what I can say to Buckker as a Christian is if you're using this to oppress people or hold them down, you're not walking with Jesus. Okay? Again, he gave a speech. Are you okay? He gave a speech.

Who is he oppressing? Who is he holding down? If you are using the religion, if you're more obsessed with the religious rituals and practices, than you are with the word of Jesus, you're not walking with Jesus. That is so presumptuous because he goes to a traditional Latin mass. That means that he's more obsessed with the religious rituals than actually walking with Jesus. You don't know that at all. You don't know that.

Just because someone goes through a ritual doesn't mean that it is only something that's on the outside and isn't symbolic of what's on the inside. That is a really hefty assumption about someone's spiritual state. And if you're using it for the judgment of others and as a weapon to beat people down, you're also not walking with Jesus. Like I just want to, I just, I just, I don't. This is just such typical liberal Christianity. Inch deep theology, no real understanding of the Bible at all. And I say this obviously as someone who is Protestant.

I would say just by Haynes's language, things like walking with Jesus. Like I don't really hear that from my Catholic friends. It almost does seem like she is a Protestant kind of just attacking Catholicism or what she thinks Catholicism is. Again, I don't have any problem if she had a substantive disagreement with Catholic theology. but to assume that because someone goes through rituals that are different than yours, that they don't have any spiritual depth, I would say that that is wrong. And of course, I think that she's wrong that just because he has conservative values and traditionally Catholic values that he's attacking and oppressing people,

get over yourself, calm down, I'm happy to have you on the show, and we can parse out what biblical theology actually looks like. Okay. Now let's get into some of the things that I do disagree with Harrison Bucker on in the speech. And it's a message also to women who maybe you agreed with the spirit of his speech, but it did kind of sting some of the things that he was saying. And I just want to remind you again of something that we've talked about a lot. And that is like how God uses Christian women and Christians in all stages of life, no matter your relationship status, no matter. how many kids you have. I do think it's important for me to remind you of what the Bible says about those things and how that's more important than what any man says. Any person says. Okay, so as we've discussed, Harrison Buckker said a lot of really good things that needed to be said about politicians who are a Catholic in name only yet promote abortion like Joe Biden, like Nancy Pelosi. And I was happy that he highlighted.

that a lot of pro-abortion politicians are Catholic. When Catholic doctrine is so clear about the evils of abortion and highlighted that hypocrisy there and said it's not enough to just be nice. He said the church of nice, which I loved that, that that is not the same thing as Christianity. That's not the same thing as the Catholic Church. And he spoke about the importance, again, of motherhood, marriage, of family, and all of that. I really appreciated so much of what he said and agreed with the spirit of what he said. But some things in there, I just didn't sit quite right with me because I don't see their foundation in scripture.

Here's thought three. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage, and the children you will bring into this world. I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabel, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. And you know what?

I agree with the vast majority of that. And I love what he said. That's not telling people that you have to be a mom. But he said that his wife, that her life started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. And I just want to give encouragement to those of you who are not wives and maybe you are a wife and you're not a mother yet, is that that is not when your life starts. You are not in a holding pattern.

You are not in a waiting room. You are not in some kind of earthly purgatory. where you are a less than Christian or an almost woman, that is not the stage of life that you're in right now. If you are single, if you are dating, if you are married without children, you want those things. You hope that God blesses with you, blesses you with those things, but there's no guarantee of those blessings. And you are struggling with thinking that if you don't get married or you don't have kids, that you will be less than, that you're somehow inadequate, that you're not usable or productive for God's kingdom. Let me tell you, that is a lie from the pit of hell. Satan would love to tell

you that your true sanctification, that your true purpose, that your real obedience to Jesus starts in some far off day when something else happens, when your relationship status happens, when you get pregnant or have five children, that then you'll be a real woman, then you'll be a real Christian, then God will really be able to use you, then you'll really be able to obey and glorify God. That kind of mentality keeps you spiritually complacent. Look, you have to run the race that is marked out for you. Not what is marked out for someone else, what is marked out for you. You run the race that is marked out for you right now.

None of us is guaranteed tomorrow. None of us, if you're not married, is guaranteed marriage. None of us, if you don't have children, is guaranteed children. We are not guaranteed all of these things. It's good to desire them. But God does not promise that he is going to give us all of the desires that we have in this life. Yes, Psalm 374 says, delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of.

of your heart. But if you're delighting yourself in the Lord, then the desire of your heart will simply be to honor him and to glorify him no matter what stage of life that you're in. So I don't want you to think of this time period in your life as only preparation for marriage and kids. I'm not saying it's bad to prepare in some way for those things. But we just don't know. We're just not guaranteed them. Your highest calling as a woman is to glorify God. And yes, being a wife, being a mom is such a high calling. Of course, I think it's a higher, I think it is a higher calling than pursuing some VP title at a marketing firm.

I do, I do. I think it is more sanctifying because it causes you to be sacrificial. It causes you to be selfless. but look, God is asking all of us in every stage of life that we're in, and every second that we are alive to take up our cross and follow him. He is going to sanctify us, no matter if we are married, no matter if we have children. So do not think that you are less than.

Do not think that you are not usable by God. Do not think that you don't really need to glorify him, obey him, be strong and be courageous and be confident in his work on your behalf. half if you are not married. So I just want to remind you of that, that it's really tempting to think that. It's really tempting to spend all of your time worrying about your relationship status, whether or not you'll get married and have kids one day and to think that that's when you'll finally be happy, that when you'll finally be joyful.

Look, that is also covetousness, which we are commanded against. you are coveting other people who are married or have kids, you're also coveting your hypothetical future self. And that's the worst place for your mind to be is in the future. Because it inevitably hangs your hopes or hangs your fears on something that may or may not ever happen. At least when we're thinking about the past, we're thinking about something that's fixed, some thinking about things in terms of a concrete reality that actually once existed. And if we're thinking about the present, then we're doing our best that we can to honor God in this present moment.

But thinking about the future and dwelling on the future, worrying about the future is really the worst thing that we can do because it takes us out of our present moment and the responsibilities that are before us and puts us in this hypothetical space that just causes anxiety. And how many times does Jesus tell us, do not be worried, do not be anxious? do not fear. And so I just wanted to remind you of that, that your race starts right now, that you need to be going full throttle right now, doing the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God. That can look really mundane most days and in most

moments. But trust that God is using you to advance his kingdom and to bring other people to himself by you just being faithful in the little things. There will be big things one day for you to be faithful in too. So I just wanted to remind you of that. That your life starts right now. Your sanctification is going on right now. It doesn't start when you become a wife or a mom as beautiful and wonderful as that is. All right.

Let's play soft four. She's a primary educator to our children. she's the one who ensures I never let football or my business become a distraction from that of a husband and father. She is the person that knows me best at my core, and it is through our marriage that Lord willing, we will both attain salvation. She sounds like an amazing woman, and they sound like an amazing couple, and I love that for them. Of course, I don't see any biblical foundation for the belief that we attain salvation through marriage. I know Catholics believe that marriage is a sacrament, but we do not believe. I don't believe that the Bible teaches that there is salvation that is attained through those things,

salvation that is attained through marriage. And now, obviously, I know some of you are going to say priests are not married. The Pope is not married. So how could they believe that? But I believe from my understanding that the Catholic belief is that priests are married to the church. and I'm guessing that's the same thing for the Pope as well. And so I guess there is a sort of marriage sacrament there, even though it's different than a man and a woman who come together in marriage.

And so, yes, that would be different than what I see the Bible teaching. And again, I think it is actually possible. As much as we need to elevate marriage and child bearing in a world that seems to hate those things, it actually is possible to lift it to a plane that is too high, higher than what the Bible teaches. St. Paul says it is better to, it is better to be married than to burn with passion. But if you are able to remain single for dedicating all of your time and your energy and your focus to the ministry and the same way that Jesus did, of course, then that is even better. That is actually seen as a gift. And then there's sub five. I say this all the time that iron sharpens iron.

It's a great reminder that those closest to us should be making us better. if you are dating someone who doesn't even share your faith, how do you expect that person to help you become a saint? Make no mistake, you are entering into mission territory in a post-God world, but you are made for this, and with God by your side and a constant striving for virtue within your vocation, you too can be a saint. So obviously I'm going to take issue with this idea of striving to become a saint

that is not what Protestants believe. If you look at scripture and the use of the word saints, it is referring to all Christians. All Christians are saints. We are set apart. We are holy, not by any effort or work that we have put into attaining sainthood, but because of Jesus's finished work on the cross and the salvation that we have by grace through faith. First Corinthians 1-2, for example, to the Church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, which is essentially what a saint is. They come from the, same Greek root as the word that is commonly translated saints. And so you see the same kind of greeting

at the beginning of Philippians, at the beginning of Ephesians, for example, that he is greeting the saints in Ephesus or the saints in Philippi and then First Corinthians, those who are set apart and called to be holy. That is saint. And so we see that Christians are now saints and members of the household of God. That's what the book of Ephesians tells us. And so it's not that we, as Protestants, believe that there isn't a working out of your faith with fear and trembling. Of course, that is biblical or that we shouldn't be through grace-driven effort striving towards living a life that is in accordance with scripture. Of course we do. But we don't believe that there is any special status that is achieved because of that. But we are loving because God first loved us.

and we are attempting to, we are working toward a life that is a life that is in alignment with Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit and that is empowered by God simply because we want to glorify him, not because we are attaining any kind of special status. but a lot of people really liked Harrison Bucker's speech, I think for a really good reason, because gosh, he said some really, really courageous things. Actually, if you see, if you look at the sales of the different NFL jerseys, Bucker's jersey is the most popular right now jersey that's sold in the NFL. You've got Patrick Mahomes, who is the Chiefs quarterback, a really good player,

who is typically at the top. and Harrison Bucker is beating him right now. And that's just because people are really hungry to hear truth. Now, like I said, a lot of people are mad. The Kansas City X account, they literally doxed him and tweeted the neighborhood where he lives. He had to, they had to apologize for that. And actually, I saw that the attorney general, Andrew Bailey, he said, my office is demanding accountability after Kansas City docks Harrison Bucker last night.

for daring to express his religious beliefs, I will enforce the Missouri Human Rights Act to ensure Missourians are not targeted for their free exercise of religion. Stay tuned. Dang. Like that was from the city's public account literally tweeted where he lives. That is so unbelievable. You were so unhinged and it's so obvious. It's so obvious who the people are on the side of wickedness. It's just insane. I just think that the chasm between good and evil is more stark every day. And I will say that even though that is a scary development, I'm not sure that anyone, any football player would have given this speech five years ago.

I just don't know. I don't know. Maybe he would have and we would have never heard about it. But five years ago, would someone have been brave enough to go to a college commencement, talk about IVF, surrogacy, reproductive technology, the importance of being a mom. I'm not sure. I think the pendulum has swung so far into the side of left-wing extremism that we are seeing some brave people on the other side say, whoa, whoa, whoa, I got to anchor it over here. And I think he's one of those people. I think that's what he did in this speech.

So I appreciate that. All right, we're just going to play a clip to end this. This is from American Idol. Yeah, Cece Weinen's, she's saying the goodness of God with one of the other contestants or one of the contestants on American Idol who had made the top 12. So we'll play a clip of that in just a second. All right, here is SOT 6. Oh, so good. You should go watch that on Instagram. It's so good, so incredible.

And they flash to Katie Perry's face at one point. and you could see that she was tearing up, and there were a lot of comments about that. Like, come on, Katie Perry, you know, you know, because I'm pretty sure she was raised Christian and has walked away since then. But it's like when the gospel speaks to your heart, and I just thought that that was so beautiful and so much talent. And I just love to hear, listen to, see people who, like, God has just poured so much talent into them, and they're using it for His glory.

and I love that so much. So I just wanted to end on that happy, positive note. All right, we will be back here tomorrow.