Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1047 | 'Pain Free Birth:' False Promises & Bad Theology

Starting point is 00:00:00 Pain-free birth, is it possible? You've probably heard of this supernatural birth, pain-free birth movement. Maybe you've read books and you've bought courses that guarantee if you have the right amount of faith, if you practice the right things, if you say the right things, then you will be guaranteed a pain-free and comfortable birth. Today, we are talking about the theological roots and the theological concerns. I have with this idea as well as discussing the physiological possibility of a pain-free birth on today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to good ranchers.com. Use code Alley at checkout. That's goodmanchers.com code Alley. Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Today we are talking about a pretty controversial topic and that is

Starting point is 00:01:04 pain-free birth. This is a subject that a lot of you have been asking me to cover for a while. Is it possible to have a birth that is really pain-free? And what are the philosophical, ideological, even theological roots of this idea? If you're like me, I have given birth, and I love the idea of having a pain-free birth because my births have not been pain-free. None of them have. And I have had really difficult births in a lot of ways and very difficult. recoveries. And so this idea of being able to give birth in a way that is without the trauma, without the physical and mental pain sounds really good. And I've followed some accounts and I've read some books and I've heard the ideas over the past few years that tell me if you do

Starting point is 00:02:01 or say or practice XYZ, you will be able to give birth without pain. And I've even had some friends who say that their births were so smooth, so quick, so pain-free, even without an epidural. And so I know that it is possible for people to have more comfortable births, but I really wanted to look into this idea. And again, the roots of this idea, this idea that you can have a supernaturally powered pain-free birth. Where does that come from? What do I think about it. And do I actually think that this idea and some of the assumptions within it, some of the theological principles within it, are actually harmful? So let's get into it. Some of you may have no idea what I'm talking about. And if you're not a mom or if you're way past giving birth,

Starting point is 00:02:53 I still think that this is a really important topic for us to dive into because of all that's within it, everything that's interwoven. I think that the ideas within it really affect women in a variety of ways. So let me give you a summary of pain-free birth. This really comes from someone named Jackie Mize. She wrote a book called Supernatural Childbirth. It was originally published in 1993, published again in 2018. I read this book when I was pregnant with my second. I was hoping for a V-back that's a vaginal birth after a cesarean. And so I was doing everything I possibly could to prepare for it. I was reading all kinds of things to prepare me for having a natural birth. People recommended things like hypno birthing to me, something that I really could never get into

Starting point is 00:03:47 for a variety of reasons and concerns that I had. But I really wanted to do everything that I could to prepare my body, to prepare my mind to give birth naturally. I was also hoping not only to have a V-back, but also to do so without an epidural. Many of you know. my birth stories. I had an unplanned C-section the first time that was pretty, I don't want to use this word in a hyperbolic way, but pretty traumatic for me. It was a really bad experience, a really painful, difficult, unnecessary C-section. I'm so thankful that I was healthy, that my baby was healthy and all that. But if those of you, for those of you who have heard my story, you know, that I'm not exaggerating when I say that it was unnecessary and wrong. And then with my second

Starting point is 00:04:34 one. I wasn't able to have a V-back. I did go into labor naturally, thankfully, but I got an infection and all of that. So that was actually probably a necessary C-section. And then I did what is pretty rare, just statistically. I actually had a V-back after two C-sections, and I gave birth in a hospital, and I had a really great team of people. I did end up having an epidural when I got to seven centimeters, but I wanted to last as long as possible without the medication. And It's not because I believe I was trying to have like a pain-free birth. I just wanted to keep it as natural as possible and increase my chances of a V-back after two C-sections as much as I possibly could. And so I've had birth both ways.

Starting point is 00:05:20 I have gone down like the holistic route as much as I could. I wasn't comfortable for myself with a home birth, having a V-back after two C-sections. but I am very open to holistic methods of pain management. I support my friends who have given birth and birth centers and who have given birth at home. They have had beautiful experiences. I think that that can work for a lot of women. And then I also think it can be great for women like me who the third time around, I really felt like I needed a hospital and medical team.

Starting point is 00:05:59 It just helped us feel more at peace and more comprehensive. And that was generally a great experience for me too. So I am certainly not someone who is against holistic approaches. I am not against all forms of trying to mitigate and manage pain that are not just medicinal, that are not just epidurals. But this is a little bit different. the supernatural childbirth Jackie Mize movement. I realized when I was reading that book a few years ago that, okay, this is very different than my understanding of who God is, what the redemption arc is, and what he promises us through the gospel.

Starting point is 00:06:48 And that is because this concept of a pain-free birth can actually be traced back to a theological movement. And I would call it a heretical theological movement. And that is the word of faith movement. That is a mix of charismatic mysticism. And this name it and claim it, prosperity gospel, that is very highly influenced, if not forged by people like Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland. And I would say even people like Joel Osteen are a part of this as well. This is basically the idea that the gospel has guaranteed Christians a certain amount of earthly success and physical healing and physical comfort. And what we have to do is name that and claim it. So through the blood of Christ, through Jesus, we are claiming our healing.

Starting point is 00:07:49 We are claiming our pain-free birth. We are claiming our financial prosperity. And typically there's some kind of exchange that these people say that we have to make in order to receive that abundance and those blessings. And that is that we either have to prove to God that we have faith by naming it and claiming it, laying on hands, you know, laying hands on people, naming and claiming their supernatural healing or, Very often it is sowing a seed of faithfulness. You will hear that a lot. Typically, what these pastors, preachers mean by that is donate to their ministry. That is sowing the seed of faithfulness when you give to these mega church televangelists.

Starting point is 00:08:36 You are showing God that you trust him. And he is going to reward that with comfort and especially with financial prosperity. I posted a clip just a couple weeks ago of Benny Hinn. saying this very recently, I think it was July 2nd of this year in which in one of his telecast, he said the only way to protect yourself from the turbulence of these times. And financial demise is to sow a seed of generosity. And of course, at the bottom of his screen, he's got a link to his ministry. He's got the phone number where you can give.

Starting point is 00:09:14 And so, I mean, that is just the height of spiritual manipulation. that is very similar to what Jesus called out the Pharisees for doing. There are very few things more wicked than not, exploiting poor, vulnerable, sick, and disabled people, promising that God will give them healing and prosperity, protect them from harm if they give them money. And in this supernatural childbirth movement, it's not necessarily financial prosperity that they are guarantee so it's a little different but they are saying if you do these things if you say these things then you will have a pain-free birth because why you deserve it you are entitled to it

Starting point is 00:10:01 it is something that god has guaranteed his people through his word and through his death and resurrection and actually jacky mys she wrote in supernatural childbirth that her belief in this concept actually originated at Kenneth Copeland's church. Kenneth Copeland, this should not at all be controversial or scandalous to say is a false teacher. He is a false teacher. He preaches this heretical, name it and claim it, word of faith, prosperity, gospel message, that the gospel means that you will have earthly success and happiness. Of course, that is not at all what Jesus said. He said, you must take up your cross and follow me. You must lay your life down.

Starting point is 00:10:48 In this world, you will have trouble. But take heart. What? You'll have earthly prosperity. Don't worry about it. But take heart. I have overcome the world. So the victory, the success that we are assured of, that we are promised is through

Starting point is 00:11:04 Christ's overcoming. It's not because we are guaranteed awesomeness in this life. All right, quick pause. Tell you about our first sponsor. And that is Carly Jean Los Angeles. I've been talking to you about CJLA for a while. And what have I said is my favorite item or kind of item from CJLA is their jeans. Y'all, these jeans have seen me through three pregnancies, through three postpartum. So many stages of my life. So many different sizes. They're so comfortable. They're so stretchy. And yet they never lose their shape. Like I don't have to worry about wearing them for several hours. and then they get weirdly baggy around my knees. That doesn't happen. They just get more comfortable the more you wear them. They are so much bang for your buck. I don't like to wear jeans from anywhere else.

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Starting point is 00:12:18 Ali's Free Genes. Carlyjean, Los Angeles.com, code Alley's Free Jeans. So here is a question that I've seen a lot in this pain-free birth world. And in so many words, Jackie Mize has asked this question, too, but this is just kind of the theme, the motto of what I see in this pain-free birth world, and that is, why would a good father design my body to experience pain and trauma in labor? And look, we will get to the problems with that question and the implications in that question in just a minute. But I think most of you know the gospel and who know the story of Genesis 1 through 3 can understand that that is a really big fundamental misunderstanding of the fall in human nature and redoubt. So I want to back up a little bit and talk a little bit more about this word of faith movement, where it comes from the problem with it. And like I said, this is much bigger than so-called pain-free

Starting point is 00:13:28 birth. These are theological errors that really hurt people, can ruin people's lives, and, of course, shipwreck people's faith because you're putting your faith in yourself, you're putting your faith in earthly things, and all of those things will pass away. And, if we're putting our faith in assurance in those, then Christ won't be enough for us. And if Christ is not enough for us, do we really know him and understand who he is? So that's why this is such a big deal. So the Word of Faith movement grew out of the Pentecostal movement in the late 20th century. Its founder was someone named E.W. Kenyon. He studied the metaphysical new thought teachings. Like this is very similar to the new age mind science. That's where name it and

Starting point is 00:14:16 claim it originated. It was combined with Pentecostalism resulting in this very weird mix of Orthodox Christianity and mysticism. So they will hold two traditional Christian doctrines, which I think makes it so attractive to a lot of people and it confuses a lot of people and it causes a lot of genuine Christians to say, well, no, that's just enough. iteration of Christianity. That's just another denomination of Christianity. It's fine. They just believe some cuckoo things, but it's okay. But really, it is that wedding of worldly mysticism with some tenets of traditional Christianity that make it so toxic, that make it really another gospel that, of course, we are warned against in the New Testament. So, as I said,

Starting point is 00:15:04 Kenneth Copeland. He is one of the most well-known Word of Faith, modern preachers. And in case you doubt, I can give you an example of him claiming this word of faith heretical teaching. Here's Psalm 1. The earth does not belong to God. It doesn't belong to Jesus. He gave it to men. And what we do here, God, if you'll study the scripture closely, you begin to realize that God is pretty well bound up to whatever we ask him to do. He can't just come button in here and stop that storm. Somebody on earth is going to have to start speaking to this stuff. All right.

Starting point is 00:15:51 So it's really exchanging the God of Scripture for the God of Self as we have discussed many times. Now, typically, when we're talking about that, we are talking about that in context of progressive Christianity. But I actually wrote about this in my first book, that progressive, of Christianity and the prosperity gospel are two sides of the same coin. And that coin is something that I call meology, where it doesn't put God in the center, Theos in the center of your thoughts of your belief system, but it puts me in the center. It puts ourselves on the throne.

Starting point is 00:16:25 Psalm 24-1 directly refutes what Pastor Kenneth Copeland said there, the earth is the lords and the fullness thereof the world in those who dwell therein so right there in in psalm 24 one we see a refutation of what kenneth coplin just said and then we also see in colosians one the preeminence of christ so here's god's authority he is the image of the invisible god the firstborn of all creation for by him all things were created in heaven and on earth visible and invisible whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities all things were created through him and for him and he is before all things and in him all things hold together and he is the head of the body of the church he is the beginning the first born from the dead that in everything he might be preeminent for in him

Starting point is 00:17:23 all the fullness of god was pleased to dwell and through him to reconcile to himself all things whether on earth or in heaven making peace by the blood of the cross. And so Jesus is preeminent. He is the head of all things. And we also read that God does as he pleases. Psalm 115.3. Our God is in the heavens. He does all that he pleases.

Starting point is 00:17:56 Then we've got Job 42 too. as we have discussed many times on this show, Job 42 says, I know that you can do all things and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted. Now, we also read in James 5 that the prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. That is James 516.

Starting point is 00:18:26 And so yes, our prayer means something. and it does something, but it is a little bit of a mysterious conundrum, because God is outside of linear time. He's out waiting to know what we are going to pray before doing something. He is suspended in the eternal now, and yet he commands us to pray, and he commands us to evangelize, even though he is all powerful, he is all knowing, he is preeminent, he is completely sovereign. And so what we can deduce from that is that God has actually preordained the means by which he chooses sovereignly to accomplish his will. He has chosen the means of prayer as a way for him to respond and to accomplish his will. He has preordained evangelism to be a

Starting point is 00:19:18 means by which the gospel reaches people. But that does not mean that he is depending upon us for him to act. It doesn't mean that we are given supreme authority or an authority that transcends him. Basically, what Kenneth Copeland has just described is a genie in a bottle that is powerless unless we activate him by using certain incantations to get him to do our will. That is heretical. That is not Christian. That is not biblical. That is evil. That is, say, That cannot be so different than the temptation that Satan used against Eve, that you will be like God. Did God really say? No, he just doesn't want you to know the difference between good and evil because then you will be powerful and knowledgeable and wise like God.

Starting point is 00:20:18 He's just jealous of you. This is basically the word of faith movement. You can be like God. And it is so similar to progressivism in so many ways because just as progressivism says that certain people can declare something and change their identity through their word, through naming it and claiming it. So does the word of faith move in that they can declare something and it is. But it is only God who can create through declaration, let there be light. And there was light. All right. Second sponsor, another favorite of mine. And that is Cozy Earth. These are the sheets.

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Starting point is 00:21:59 slash relatable code relatable. The roots of the word of faith movement and the name and inclaimant message have more in common, as we've already noted, with new age metaphysics and with biblical Christianity, instead of us creating our reality with our thoughts as new age proponents advise, the name and inclaimant teachers tell us that we can use the power of faith to create our own reality or to get what we want. This is called like the faith force or the force of faith. So faith is redefined from like our childlike trust in our good father, that he is going to care for us exactly how he wants us, exactly how he wants to. And he is going to take us exactly where he wants to go into this kind of potion, this kind of spell that says when we say a certain thing and when we declare a certain kind of faith in.

Starting point is 00:23:01 God, then he will do what we want him to do. And then they preach that illness, sin, failure, poverty. These are all the results of a lack of faith. They're remedied by confession, claiming God's promises for oneself into existence, and then often again, by financial donations to their ministry. So this is really, the theological foundation, the philosophical root of this supernatural childbirth movement. As I said, Jackie Meis acknowledged in her book, Supernatural Childbirth, that she was inspired by Brother Kenneth Copeland at one of his gatherings. Jackie Mize said this, that in this service where she says that Brother Copeland prophesied, she writes,

Starting point is 00:23:59 The Lord says there are ladies in here right now. So this is what she said that he prophesied. There are ladies in here right now who are expecting a baby and others who want to have babies. If you'll use my word and stand on my word, you'll have those babies supernaturally without pain. The doctors and nurses and medical personnel will be astounded and amazed at the way you come through this delivery. It will be something they haven't seen before. And after they see with their medical eyes, what you have done, that yes, it is true. They have witnessed it. then you can tell them that God did it. It will be a testimony to them. So that inspired Jackie Mize

Starting point is 00:24:33 to write this supernatural childbirth. And here's part of the description. She had been told, Jackie Mize had been told she could never have children. However, by unlocking powerful truths and dynamic faith principles, she and her husband, Terry, found in the Bible, that they found in the Bible, they now have four miracle children. And so she promises that if you, use her truths, you can unlock this miracle for yourself. So if you can't have children, you can unlock this miracle. Like if you've been told that you're infertile, then you can unlock this miracle by doing these things. If you want to avoid pain and birth, you can unlock that miracle by doing these things. She writes that natural childbirth is good, but God has a better way of doing it than the thing

Starting point is 00:25:21 that we're used to. She says, when I refer to supernatural childbirth, I'm talking about being able to conceive and to have babies with a pregnancy free from nausea, morning sickness, pain, moodiness, depression, and without fear of any kind, then going through the entire labor without pain and through the delivery without stitches and anesthetic. The book teaches these things. How to put faith principles into action for your very own supernatural childbirth, how you can be a living example of God's promises in action, how and when to use your faith for pregnancy and delivery. She offers confessions and prayers for supernatural conception, pregnancy, childbirth, in all circumstances surrounding each stage. Here are some excerpts from the book so we can

Starting point is 00:26:08 understand really what she believes. Let me tell you, those afterbirth pains are under the same curse as any other pain. Now, if you've given birth, you know what those afterbirth pains are, whether you had a C-section or not, like there's the cramping of your uterus because your uterus is contracting to get back to its normal small size and then there's either a scar or other kinds of physical recovery that is trying to heal. And she is saying that after that you are not actually supposed to have any pain. And this is how you accomplish that. She says, after you have your baby, keep talking to your body. You can use the name of Jesus and make your body do what it needs to do. You command the bleeding to stop, command the uterus to contract like it's supposed to, without pain.

Starting point is 00:27:03 She says, many of the doctors and nurses I have talked to say the worst enemy of a pregnant woman and laborers fear. Say it out loud. I rebuke you fear in the name of Jesus. God has not given me a spirit of fear, but of power and love and a sound mind. I have God's perfect love and not perfect love casts out fear. Now, do you see how she is interweaving the things that are true, things that are biblical with things that are not. How she is saying that God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of self-control. That is true. The Bible does say that. I have God's perfect love and perfect love casts out fear. That is true. We are called not to be fearful. We are called not to be anxious. We are called not to be worried. We are called to cast all our anxieties on the Lord and he will care for us. That is true. And we can't have peace of mind, the peace that actually surpasses understanding. That means peace that doesn't even make sense in our current circumstances because it is from the Holy Spirit. That part is true. But what the

Starting point is 00:28:05 word of faith movement, what she is attaching that to is then a guarantee of no physical pain or even physical ailments. The bleeding that occurs after birth is necessary. You have like a dinner plate sides wound on your uterus where your placenta has come out. And it's actually good. It's necessary to bleed because of that. But she is saying that is not only a part of the fall, but a part of the fall that you can escape through your activating faith and through naming it and claiming it. She uses, again, that 1st Timothy 1.7, the not giving us a spirit of fear. I can do all thing through Christ who strengthens me. Philippians 413. Philippians 419. My God will supply every need of yours, according to his riches and glory.

Starting point is 00:28:51 And then she uses third John two, Isaiah 53, 4 through 5, Isaiah 54, 17. All of these things, she says, that is God guaranteeing us a pain-free experience, not just in birth, but in various areas of life. That is guaranteeing us ease. That is guaranteeing us comfort. That is guaranteeing us healing. But of course, in the context of all of these things, that's not what it's talking about. one of the most misused verses, and I can link when we have done a whole episode on Philippians

Starting point is 00:29:21 413 and how it is one of the most misused verses. When you look at the context of Philippians 413, he is not talking about just physical pain. Like he is not talking about the fact that he doesn't have enough money. He is saying, I can endure persecution. I can endure poverty. I can endure imprisonment. I can endure not having enough. Like I can endure lacking, not because I know that God is going to come through and provide me with riches and provide me with abundance or even free me from prison, but because I have Christ and because to live is Christ and to die is gain. That's the promise that he has. That's what he's clinging to. He's clinging to Jesus, us, not a Jeannie.

Starting point is 00:30:09 He is clinging to blessings that we have in Christ because of the gospel and because the spiritual assurance that we have, not these tangible things that he thinks that he is entitled to because he is a Christian. All right. This next sponsor is for business owners. You need to make sure that your processes are as efficient as possible. And you can really only have that when you have one source of truth. That means that you need to switch to next.

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Starting point is 00:31:27 act of faith on your part. Death and life, she notes, in Proverbs 1821, are in the power of the tongue and those who love it will eat its fruits. For with the heart, one believes in is justified, and with a mouth one confesses and is saved Romans 1010. The book specifically instructs readers to use the following verses to negate the curses of the law found in Deuteronomy 28. She says this, Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written, curse that is everyone hanged on a tree so that in Christ Jesus, the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles so that we might receive the promised spirit through faith. And if you are Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to the promise. again, here she is using these half-truths to push something, that is not true. It is true that

Starting point is 00:32:15 Jesus hanged on a cross, that he took our punishment upon himself. He who knew no sin became sin so that we might become the righteousness of God. He gave us his righteousness, made our slate clean so we could finally be acceptable to a holy, sinless, perfect God. All of that is true. That does not mean that we do not live in a fallen world and that we don't feel the effects of the fall. What I'm confused about is what these Word of Faith people think that we get to escape because we've escaped the curse and what we don't. Because I don't think any of these people can deny that even those who have the utmost faith, like Kenneth Copeland, that they die one day. They die one day. That is part of the curse. That is part of the curse. That is part of the

Starting point is 00:33:07 curse of Genesis 3 is death or that we all age that our body over time, that it decays and it starts to sag and we get sick more. Even the people that they claim have the utmost faith. That happens to them. So why is it that the curse that apparently Jesus freed us from, the curse of fallenness that we read the beginning of Genesis, it allows us to escape from a pain-free birth, but it doesn't allow us to escape from physical death. I don't understand that. And this just creates a huge burden. It creates a burden that is heavy and a yoke that is difficult, the very things that Jesus said that he came to free us from. He said, my burden is light, my yoke is easy. Well, this reversing that because it is putting it all on you that if you fall in a hard time,

Starting point is 00:34:11 if you don't get that promotion, if you don't have earthly success, if you don't become rich, if you don't have a pain free birth, then it's because you didn't do the right thing. It's because you didn't have enough faith. You didn't pray hard enough. You didn't declare it hard enough. It is your fault. It is your faithlessness. And there just seems to be no room for the,

Starting point is 00:34:35 grace and the power of God and the fact that we are in this tense moment of having these blessings of grace and the blessings of the gospel and the peace that comes with Christianity and being able to access God's presence confidently through Jesus Christ while still having to deal with the effects of sin while still having to deal with sickness and sorrow and disappointment and failure and travesty and cancer and all of these things. We are never guaranteed that Jesus is going to spare us of those. We are never guaranteed that that comes with the gospel, that prosperity and a pain-free birth is part of being a Christian.

Starting point is 00:35:23 That is not what we read in Scripture. And again, this is a different gospel. This is a heretical gospel. This gospel is not about Jesus. It's about what you can. can get out of it. She uses Exodus 1, the Egyptian midwives spare Hebrew baby boys. And she talks about the difference between the Hebrew midwives or the Hebrew women that they

Starting point is 00:35:44 were able to give birth easily and then that the Egyptian women were not. And she says that this is an example of God's people get quick and easy births. See? Okay, well, that doesn't really work. if you look at some of the other people, if you look at some of the other people in Scripture, who were God's people, who died in childbirth? Rachel died in childbirth. She was a part of God's people. Was it because of her lack of faith? We don't need that in Scripture. We don't see that God's people were able to be spared from pain or from hardship. In fact, God used pain and hardship

Starting point is 00:36:26 and trials and waiting, going through the wilderness, for example, in order to sanctify them, to increase their reliance on him. She also uses 1 Timothy 2.15, we will be saved through childbearing if they continue in faith and love and holiness in self-control. And she says that this means that we could have a pain-free birth that we can actually declare pain-free birth because of that. She says that that's what that scripture means. And yet, that's not what that passage means. The MacArthur New Testament commentary says this. Paul teaches here that although a woman precipitated the fall and the women and the women bear

Starting point is 00:37:14 that responsibility, they may be preserved from that stigma through childbearing. Paul's point is that while a woman may have led the race to sin, women have. have the privilege of leading the race out of sin to godliness. I think that's a really hard saying, a very difficult verse to understand and interpret, but it is not in context talking about having a pain-free birth. So that's my biggest issue. Those are my biggest issues with this supernatural childbirth pain-free birth movement is actually its theological roots, the name it and claim it foundation of it. And again, just this weight, that women are made to carry, that if something goes wrong in your birth, if your body does not

Starting point is 00:38:00 do exactly what you want it to do, if there's a complication, it's because of your lack of faith. And even though I have not bought into the principles of the prosperity gospel in a long time, I've talked about before when I was like in high school, I listened to Joel Osteen didn't see anything wrong with it. Think of the Lord for God's patience and faithfulness and sanctification for all of us. I will say, after, during my second pregnancy, I think I did buy into that a little bit that if, that I really am ultimately in control, that I can think the right thoughts that will guarantee my outcome. Now, of course, what we think is important. Like we're told in Philippians four that we should only dwell on things that are lovely and pure and excellent and praiseworthy.

Starting point is 00:38:49 and of course what we say is important out of the heart, the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. And yes, I do believe that you can be hung by the tongue and that if you are constantly speaking negativity and complaining and you're constantly talking about how tired you are, how awful things are, how stressed you are, that that can, of course, like you're listening to yourself, it can affect your mind. And then it can affect your attitude. It can affect how you treat other people, it can demotivate you into laziness and complacency and all of that can have an effect on your circumstance. I think that that is just logically true and physically true, but when we're talking about the supernatural power of being able to activate God to do what we

Starting point is 00:39:39 want to do based on what we say, that's where the damage is done. And I think I put way too much pressure on myself in my second pregnancy to try to make things happen that I wanted to happen. And it just didn't work that way. And I really tried, I wanted to try to do like hypno birthing. I tried to justify it to myself, too, that, you know, it's fine if I'm just dwelling on scripture. And maybe some of you have done that and maybe you felt like it was spiritually okay. I think that there are some concerns that come along with that, though, again, the name it and claim it. But if you're just trying to dwell on scripture and allow the word of God to give you peace and just pray for his peace, I think that's perfectly fine. If that puts you in a good peaceful

Starting point is 00:40:24 mental state, I think that's okay. But it largely does come down to the motivations when it comes to that. And again, understanding the promises of God. The promise of God is his faithfulness, is his presence. That's what we get through Christ. It is not necessarily a skirting of difficult outcomes or trials or anything like that. Actually, I think that if we look at scripture and we look at the character of God, it is much more likely for God to allow and to use pain, to draw us closer to himself and to strengthen our faith, not our reliance on ourselves, but our reliance on God. That is much more like God. Like I think of, for example, I think of 2 Corinthians 129.

Starting point is 00:41:18 But he said to me, my grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in what? In weakness. Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses. So the power of Christ may rest upon me. It's not my strength. It's not the strength of my faith that allows God's power to rest upon me. It's actually my insufficiency. It's my weakness that allows God's power to work.

Starting point is 00:41:54 Last sponsor for the day is Jace Medical. Unfortunately, we are hearing reports of new cases of bird flu. I really don't want to think about that, but it is an election season. We don't know what's going to happen. There's going to be some kind of October surprise. You would rather be safe than sorry when it comes to the prescriptions that you and your family need, whether that's common antibiotics for the most common infections or whether that is the daily prescription that you or a family member relies on. You just want to make sure that you have an

Starting point is 00:42:24 emergency stash of this stuff on hand. So that's why you got to go to jacemadical.com, get yourself a jace case. They've got common antibiotics in it. Should you need it, you can add on things like ivermectin or an epipen. You can also get a jace daily case. That's a year-long supply of the prescriptions that you and your family rely on. Just go to jacemadical.com. Use code aliot. Check out for a discount. They'll take you through their telemetly. medicine process, get you what you need. Jacemedical.com code alley. But there's another question. Is it physiologically possible? Like, is it actually physically possible to have a pain-free birth? Well, as I said, like, I have friends, I have friends who say that their birth without an

Starting point is 00:43:07 epidural, without any medication, like at a birth center at home, was not painful. So I do think it's possible. I don't think those women are lying and the women that I know that have been able to have like a truly comfortable birth. I mean, it's really hard for me to understand that. But they didn't use this like word of faith stuff. They just didn't have a very painful birth or at least they don't remember the pain. I definitely know women who have given birth without a lot of physical trauma. Like their recovery, their postpartum was really easy. They didn't bleed a lot. There wasn't tearing and things like that. Like that is that is absolutely possible. I don't want to say that women absolutely have to have this awful traumatic experience when they give

Starting point is 00:43:53 birth or that they should be riddled with anxiety or fear. But I will also say that it is not necessary or normal to have a pain-free birth. Like I know women who have given birth at home several times and they're like awesome birthers. They do it with so much grit and so much perseverance and they will say that sucked. That was really, really hard. I know only a few, maybe a couple people who can say that they actually enjoyed their medicine-free birth. The Lamas method has been the most common method for teaching natural childbirth coping techniques. There are several others at this point, too. There are many out there. But what we know, as Lamas was originally developed as the psychoprophylactic.

Starting point is 00:44:45 method of painless childbirth by Soviet scientists following World War II. So facing enormous obstacles and rebuilding the USSR following two world wars, reconstruction, famine, population decline. Soviet scientists were tasked with a way to combat these problems and promote a pro-natalist agenda. So their solution was a new non-pharmacological method called the psychoprophylactic method of painless childbirth. They wanted to achieve. the complete elimination of labor pain for all women. They said this is the kind of task that only the socialist establishment is able to resolve. The argument that they made is that the birthing process is controlled by the cerebral cortex,

Starting point is 00:45:30 which plays a role in the perception of pain. Even though it originated in Soviet Russia became famous worldwide, thanks to French obstetrician Fernand Lamas. By 1960, this psychoprophylaxis gained a foothold in the U.S. where it was christened as the Lamas method, an unsurprising effort to distance it from its Soviet roots. And a lot of, like, a lot of our moms did Lamas. I know that this is true for like my mom and my mother-in-law. There was a natural movement in the 70s and 80s where women were giving birth more without epidurals without using lamas. Like my mom, when she gave birth to my oldest brother, he was like 10 pounds. Oh my goodness. And he was like 10 days overdue. She did that without an

Starting point is 00:46:21 epidural. And by the time my other brother came around, and this is the same for my mother-in-law. By the time they had their second, it was like that kind of wave of very natural childbirth methods had kind of like crashed a little bit. And people were more okay with using epidurals than My mom used an epidural for me too. But in those days of like natural childbirth being the thing, Lamas classes were really popular. The truth is there's little scientific evidence regarding the effectiveness of Lamas classes and techniques on the pain experience in childbirth. But there are some positive outcomes with Lamas.

Starting point is 00:47:01 I'm not saying that it's all wrong. I think some breathing techniques and teaching the dad how to be a part of it and just preparing women for childbirth. I think that can be really helpful with anxiety and fear. I'm not saying everything within Lamas is wrong, but we really see traces of this idea that you have the power to make sure that your birth is pain free. And this goes all the way back to this psychoprophylactic movement and socialist Russia that was really more of a propagandistic tool to get women to have more babies when they were scared of having babies. And then hypnobirth is also kind of a part of this. In 1989, hypnotherapist Marie Mungan developed a program called hypno birthing, which

Starting point is 00:47:50 pauses that fear and anxiety can heighten the experience of pain. I think that's probably true. And that technique, such as meditation, guided imagery, deep breathing, and hypnosis can plunge you into a state of deep relaxation before and during labor, helping you become less fearful of it. And I know people, there are probably going to be people reaching out to me and telling me that you did this and this worked for you. Hypnosis does work. It does work. Here's my issue with hypnosis is that it's basically like being drunk. And it allows something else to take over your mind so that you are no longer in the driver's seat.

Starting point is 00:48:29 But something else is these incantations, this rhythm, this music, this power, this power, this. spell and you are no longer in control. And so you no longer have self-control, which we are told is a fruit of the spirit. We are also told in Ephesians, do not be, do not get drunk with wine, but be filled with the spirit because whatever fills you controls you. So if your mind is controlled by hypnosis, I do think that makes you vulnerable to be controlled and be filled by forces that are dark and to at least have thought processes that are not glorifying to the Lord. So I think as much as we can, we need to be in the right mind. And so that is one of the issues that I have with hypnosis. It also just seems very close to like using a psychic.

Starting point is 00:49:31 It feels very close to using magic and magic spells. And we see how much God hates. that. Now again, if you are simply meditating on scripture, to try to get it to seep into your heart, to try to fill your mind with what is pure and lovely, I wouldn't even call that hypnosis. I would say that's just meditating on the Word of God. That absolutely can give us peace. That's really what I was doing because I found this like Christian hypno birthing several years ago when I was pregnant with my second. And I had the same concerns about hypnosis, but I was just reading those scriptures and trying to memorize those scriptures and thinking about those scriptures. First Peter 5.8 says be sober-minded, sober-minded, be watchful. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion,

Starting point is 00:50:16 seeking someone to devour. And I do think allowing our mind to be taken over by something like that outside of us, like hypnosis actually makes us very vulnerable to Satan's attacks. And while not all supernatural birth pain-free birth methods are about hypnosis, it's all the same kind of word of faith, name it, and claim it mentality. So here are some criticisms that I've read about this supernatural childbirth movement that I think are even more articulate and more specific than what I am able to say. people who have been talking about this for a long time. I found this blog post. It's called Sovereign Childbirth, a response to the teaching of supernatural childbirth. And she read the book by Jackie Meis, and she says, why can we not declare a pain-free childbirth because of the finished work on the cross? We cannot claim this because Scripture does not promise us a pain-free childbirth.

Starting point is 00:51:19 It does not promise that we can have what we say we want. These are abuses and misinterpretations of God's Holy Word. It attempts to deny God's sovereignty. while elevating our own. There is also this comment on book review that reviewed this book, and I thought that this was really interesting. She said, I thought I had heard the, I hadn't heard the Lord clearly. I read that book more than once while hoping to get pregnant and being pregnant with their second child.

Starting point is 00:51:47 This reviewer says, I had 33 hours of labor in a C-section, despite the loud declarations and speaking in tongues going on in my labor room from my friends. and I felt afterward that I hadn't heard from the Lord clearly. Thankfully, the Lord opened our eyes and brought us back into a place where we hear the Lord through his written word, exactly, and get to speak to him with clear English words. Here's another review of this book, and I don't think that all critics of every book should be given like full authority and credibility, but these are people's personal stories that I think are important. This person said, I was so excited about this book, loved every bit of it, and immediately put it into practice. daily prayer all day and night, waking hours, prayer and confession of God's word over my baby, full faith.

Starting point is 00:52:32 Believed what this book says is true, that we are redeemed from the curse and under our covenant through Jesus, we have health and healing and healthy pregnancies and supernatural childbirth. I lived every word of this book and believed with all of my heart. Then my baby died in my womb. Despite praying, believing, I learned the hard way that this is all just a bunch of crap. Here's another reviewer. The author shares an idea that the reason she suffered her first miscarriage was because of her

Starting point is 00:53:03 lack of faith and trust in the Lord. She shares that she did all of these physically exhausting things in her second pregnancy and didn't miscarry because she decided that she was going to have this baby. Those are extremely harmful thoughts to share and made me feel disgusted as I read them. This is what I mean by this Word of Faith movement, put a heavy burden on you and gives you a very difficult yoke because look we already deal with mom guilt all of us do and if you've had a miscarriage you were already wrestling with this idea that maybe it was your fault like maybe you lifted something too heavy maybe you didn't get enough sleep maybe you had too much stress maybe it was a glass

Starting point is 00:53:40 of wine that you drank one time before you found out that you were pregnant at five weeks you're already wrestling with that you're already asking god why and this mentality makes you believe that yes it was your fault and it actually wasn't any of those things. It was something far worse. You didn't have faith in God and you call yourself a Christian. How much anxiety. This is far from peace. This is anxiety. This is making it all about you. That is not the victory that we have in Christ. Actually, the good news of the gospel is so much better than what the word of faith, prosperity preachers say. The word of God, the gospel tells us that no matter what happens in this life, no matter the loss, no matter the pain, no matter the difficulty, no matter poverty that you have a God who loves you so much that he sent his son to die for you and one day

Starting point is 00:54:29 you get to spend forever with him and there will be no more sorrow, no more sadness, no more fear, no more pain. We are actually told that like all of these trials, all these difficulties, all of this chaos the world is going through, what are they compared to in scripture? The pangs of childbirth and the pangs of childbirth that we are feeling are actually reflective of the pangs of childbirth of creation as we are eagerly awaiting the arrival of our Savior who is going to take care of the curse of sin forever and ever. So that is where we live. That's actually where the peace comes from.

Starting point is 00:55:08 Now, are there practical ways to prepare for birth? Yes, absolutely. I hired a doula when I was in my third pregnancy that made such a difference for me. I took childbirth classes. I prepared myself. We practiced different labor positions. We did everything we could to mitigate the pain before I ended up having that epidural. And so I think there are so many ways that we can prepare for birth. I think it's okay to want to mitigate that pain, to mitigate tearing, to try to avoid a C-section. Yes, all of that. Those are gifts of common grace that God gives us. I think medicine can be a

Starting point is 00:55:44 gift of common grace. I even think an epidural can be a gift of common grace. I think C-sections can be a gift of common grace, when all of these things are necessary used in the right context. But please do not think that if you don't have a natural childbirth without bleeding, without tearing, without any trauma, that it is because of your lack of faith. That is because you didn't name it and claim it enough. You didn't declare it enough. I have good news for you. You aren't that powerful. You don't have that power. You don't. You're not Jesus. You're not God. God is not a genie. He is powerful and he can use your pain, use your loss, use your trials to draw you closer to himself. That is the truth. I hope for you that you have a comfortable birth. I do. I hope that for you.

Starting point is 00:56:29 But if not, God is still good. He loves you and the gospel is true. And apply these truths to every single area of your life that we serve a sovereign and good God whose promise for us is peace in him, faithfulness himself and that one day we will escape all of the effects of sin forevermore. That is the good news. All right. That's all we got time for. We will be back here soon.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1047 | 'Pain Free Birth:' False Promises & Bad Theology

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