Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1056 | “Open Womb” Theology: When Can Christians Stop Having Kids? | Q&A

Starting point is 00:00:01 What do I think about open womb philosophies or open womb theology? Should women vote? Also, if your husband wants you to do something like, say, stay at home, but you don't want to, what does it look like to submit to your husband? Also, what is my take on deliverance ministries? I am answering all of these questions and many, many, many more on today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to you by our friends of Good Ranchers. at good rangers.com. Use code alley at checkout. That's goodangers.com, code alley.

Starting point is 00:00:43 Hey guys, welcome to relatable. All right. Answering some of your most pressing questions today. The first question, actually the first two questions, they really go hand in hand. Should women vote? Second question, should women submit to their husband's choice of a vote? So apparently this is kind of a controversial position for people on the right. But yes, I do think that women should be able to vote. I know I'm such a radical feminist for believing that. Now, I would be happy to narrow voting to, say, property owners. I think that that would probably be a good qualification for voting. Heck, I would be happy just having voter ID to be able to prove your citizenship.

Starting point is 00:01:31 You should be a taxpayer. That seems like it should be important. I know that you're not supposed to be allowed to have civic tests in order to vote, but it would be great if everyone had to pass a basic civics exam before they voted. Unfortunately, we don't have any of those things. And Democrats have been pushing the allowance of illegal immigrants to vote for a very long time. these people who cast themselves as the sentinels of democracy and who say that they're fighting against voter suppression, well, nothing is less democratic and more suppressive of the vote than allowing people who are not citizens of this country have representation through their vote.

Starting point is 00:02:27 That is wicked. It causes disorder. It causes chaos. It means that you're not really a country because there are no privileges to being a citizenship. It means citizenship is really obsolete. If citizenship is obsolete, then you have no privileges, no really special rights as a citizenship, as a citizen, which really means that we have no sovereignty. We're not even a legitimate country. And of course, that is true. If we have no borders, we have no sovereignty. We have no protection. We have no parameters. We're basically

Starting point is 00:02:58 illegitimate and invalid, which again just causes chaos. Remember, God created borders. He created governments. He created the idea of nations and even the idea of languages. All of these things create order in our lives that are necessary for human flourishing. So anyway, I do think that there should be qualifications for voting more qualifications than we have now. And maybe it would have been good if we had stuck with the one vote per family model that it used to be. But that's just not the world we live in today. I don't even think it is helpful for anyone to be out there saying, let's revoke the 19th amendment.

Starting point is 00:03:43 It's not going to happen. All you are doing is ensuring that the women who can vote, who do vote, will not vote for the policies that you would like them to. And that has a very real effect on vulnerable people who bear the brunt of our policy decisions, namely children and babies in the womb. So be a little bit more strategic those of you who are championing the idea of getting rid of the 19th Amendment. Advice for the next generation of church leaders slash young people in ministry. Really simple, don't compromise on the truth just because you think being nice or softening the word of God is going to somehow make the gospel more attractive.

Starting point is 00:04:25 It won't. It won't. Okay. I know Ginzi is super cool. I know the people, the generation coming up, maybe they're intimidating to you because you don't understand all their lingo. They're so much more technologically savvy than us. They are so apathetic about things and cover everything and five levels of irony. And so maybe you're intimidated by that coolness and you feel like, okay,

Starting point is 00:04:48 they are never going to be appealed to by just preaching God's word, just preaching the plain gospel. I've got a caveat. I've got a compromise. I've got to soften it. I've got a nuance. That's the only way. No. I mean, the word. of God stands and the Word of God will not return void. What you win people with, you will win people to. If you win people with compromise, their faith will be compromised. If you win people with soft watered down theology, they will have soft water down theology. The Word of God is good enough. You do God to apologize for it. You don't have to let God off the hook. You don't have to do PR for God, make him seem better than he is. You speak the truth in love. So yes, gentleness.

Starting point is 00:05:32 kindness, all of those things. You can have compassion for someone and meet them where they are. But the goal is to not have them stay where they are. This generation is like every generation that has ever lived. They are simple and their greatest need is not to feel good about themselves. It's not to feel accepted. It's not to feel awesome and have built up self-esteem. Their dire need as sinners is to be saved by Christ. That's my greatest need. That's your greatest need. That's the 10-year-olds greatest need. The 20-year-olds greatest need. The 99-year-olds greatest need. Male, female, no matter what, that is our greatest need. And there might be some different strategies, some different approaches that you take to make sure that you really are,

Starting point is 00:06:16 meeting them where they are. I'm not saying that, like, you know, you need to not be strategic or not try to invite them into your life in a way that will appeal to them. But I'm saying, even as you invite them in. Even as you are reaching out to them, do not compromise on the word of God. Which current animal skeleton do you think would make the scariest dinosaur? That's a great question.

Starting point is 00:06:45 An owl. An owl has a really scary skeleton. We'll put the pictures up. Hippo, super scary. No, I think I'm going to go with baboon. Frightening. Baboon, really scary. Any really animal dinosaur.

Starting point is 00:07:00 or animal dinosaur, animal skeleton, could be, you could see it being a dinosaur. All you have to do is picture it with scales instead of fur and wings maybe and huge fangs, huge teeth, huge canines. And then you're like, oh, this is a, this is a dinosaur. And you're like, oh, nope, it's actually a cow. That's how crazy paleontology is. how to approach or discuss with a fellow believer on their viewpoint against biblical core value? So I think what you're asking is that this person says they're Christian, but they don't support the core tenets of Christianity, one of them being maybe the definition of marriage and gender. I'm guessing that's probably what you are alluding to.

Starting point is 00:07:50 There are a few ways to go about this. One, I would read tactics by Greg Kokel. He has a lot of really practical tips for how to. over time, convince someone to come to your side, or just play a role in that person's mind and heart changing. You might not be the person who helps bring that person over the finish line through the grace of God. You might just be one person along the way on their journey. And we have to be fine with that. In humility, we don't have to win every argument in every debate. We just have to do our job to be obedient and plant seeds. So there are multiple ways to do that.

Starting point is 00:08:25 You can when you engage in conversation. If she says something that's blatantly unbiblical, you can just ask, well, what do you think about this Bible verse? How do you think about this? Or if you want to say, hey, like, I really want to study the book of Genesis or I really want to study the book of Romans. Would you be willing to do this Bible study with me? Either find a good Bible study or go over it. Then, hey, first chapter of Romans, Romans 127, where Paul writing to the Romans is talking about the unnatural desires of homosexuality. You can ask her, okay, like, what do you think about this? How do we wrestle with this? Make sure you have a good ESB study Bible. If you have, if she has questions that she don't have the answer to, I think one, it's not exhaustive, but it's a good place to start. One place to go is got questions.org. They've answered a lot of theological questions. If you just, like, kind of need the basics of an answer to an apologetics question. That's where I would start because, look, it might be that she's a genuine believer, but she just not is not in the place of her sanctification yet where God has given

Starting point is 00:09:34 her the wisdom on certain issues. I think all of us have had that point in our faith, and we have to remember that while I was genuinely a Christian, like, I thought that Joel Lohsteen and Stephen Ferdick were awesome. I didn't know. I really didn't know the false premises and principles of the prosperity gospel until I was later in college. And I got myself in ESV study Bible. I started listening to more reformed teachers. And I realized, oh, what I've been hearing from those kinds of preachers, that's just not the gospel. And it's not biblical at all. It doesn't mean necessarily that I wasn't saved. I was just confused. And so sanctification is a process. We work out our faith and fear and trembling. Maybe she's a genuine believer. She's just not there yet.

Starting point is 00:10:18 And God will use you. Or maybe she's not. Maybe she's not a genuine. a believer. Maybe she's a Christian in name only and she thinks that she is nicer than God, in which case she serves the God of self, not the God of Scripture. That's a much bigger conversation. So make sure that you're sharing the gospel with her. All right, I'm so excited to tell you guys about Sherwood Kids. So if you're anything like me, finding entertainment for your kids that's like not a screen or a show that they're going to become addicted to is like, it's high on my priority list. And that's why I love Sherwood Kids. This is different than the other kinds of entertainment platforms. It's a low stimulation platform that helps kids develop a love

Starting point is 00:11:01 for reading without becoming addicted to screen. So most kids entertainment is like, you know, it's designed to keep your kids glued to the screen mindlessly entertained and embracing even, you know, left-wing agendas. And you don't want that. You want wholesome content. And that's what Sherwood Kids has. They have thousands of wholesome audiobooks, e-books, read along videos. It's filled with the kind of stories that you actually want your kids to enjoy because it's promoting the values that we have. So go to surewoodkids.com slash alley. You'll get 50% off a lifetime membership when you do, which is amazing. Surewoodkids.com slash alley. Let's see. Age appropriate resources to help elementary kids understand all the election news.

Starting point is 00:11:51 I love like World Magazine. They have the world and everything in it. That's not a kid's podcast, but they do have a World Magazine, a podcast resource just for kids to explain world news to kids from a biblical worldview. I love that. And so I would probably start there. It's just a great media group and a great resource where you can go. How can we be praying for you as you prepare for Share the Arrow's event? That's so sweet.

Starting point is 00:12:20 I truly do. I've got the kindest and most compassionate audience. Every sponsor tells me that. Every guest tells me that. You guys really do share the arrows. You share the arrows with me. You share the arrows with my guests. You share the arrows with the people that I talk about on the show.

Starting point is 00:12:34 And I'm just so thankful for that. And you guys are always praying for me. Every time I meet you, you say, I've been praying for you. My family and I, my Sunday school class. One of you, I met you not too long ago at an event. And you said that there's a group of you in your neighborhood and you come together every week. Or every, actually, I think it's every day, which is pretty amazing. and pray for the country and you told me that at those meetings, y'all pray for me.

Starting point is 00:13:00 And that means so much to me. You have no idea. And I covet your prayers and I appreciate your prayers. Specifically, when it comes to share the arrows, I just pray that everyone that God would want to be there would be there, however many people that is, but that we would maximize our reach and being able to tell people about the show. So, or not the show, the event, rather, so that everyone who needs to know about it, it, we'll know about it. Also, just pray that God is glorified. Pray for all of the speakers that

Starting point is 00:13:31 they would be of calm and sound mind. I pray for Francesca Battistelli, who is leading worship there, and that all of our words, that they'd be true, that they would be seasoned, that they would be, that they would meet fertile soil and the minds and the hearts of the people attending there. Most of the women there will be Christians, but I'm sure. there will be women there who maybe aren't, then who don't know what to think about all these crazy political issues, theological issues. And so I just hope that we can equip and encourage those women as well as the people who already agree with us, that people, everyone would leave there with so much hope and encouragement and equipment. And also just safety. I mean,

Starting point is 00:14:17 I think we've seen over the past several weeks, if not several years, just how crazy things have gotten. So pray for our protection. our physical protection there too. My husband, someone says my husband wants me to be a stay-at-home mom, but I do not want to. Is this a submit to your husband's situation? Yes. Yeah. I think that I think it is.

Starting point is 00:14:40 Now, I don't know your specific circumstances. I don't know your husband. I don't know his reasoning. And I'm not saying that it's forever. And I don't know all of the different factors in your life. So let me just say that. but just from this, just from this. Your husband wants you to stay at home.

Starting point is 00:15:01 You don't want to stay at home. Yes, it's a submit to your husband issue, I would say. How do you think high school girls should respond to boys pretending to be girls at the same events? I mean, that's really tough. I hate that our girls are having to bear that responsibility. Girls are naturally, I think, amenable and relational and compassion. it. And so I don't think it really comes naturally for them to be like, I'm going to stand up and fight against this thing because they want to be seen. They want to be cool and accepted

Starting point is 00:15:34 and all of those things too. And today, you're told especially if you're a young white girl that you've already got like the bigotry baked in and that you have to work hard to not be transphobic and racist and all these things. It's such a burden to put on children. And yet, that's the position that they're in. And of course, if they're Christians, as young as they are. They have to stand up for what is good right and true. They simply do. They have to push back against what is dangerous. They don't have to accept this and they don't have to feel comfortable with it. They don't even, I'm sorry, but they don't have to be nice to a boy that is trying to be a girl. They don't. I'm not saying they should be unkind, like malicious and bullying, but they don't have to be

Starting point is 00:16:13 nice. They don't have to be accommodating. They don't have to be sweet to this person. They can ignore this person. They should go to their trusted adults and say, I'm uncomfortable with it. I'm uncomfortable with this and by the way like where are their dads maybe their dads should be showing up at the school and saying no no nope we're not doing this or you're pulling your daughter out um that's that's that's where my mind goes there as a christian what do you think of the emerging patriarchal quiverful doctrine you know it's really interesting the turn that that kind of like subset as a Christians have taken a lot of these people, the patriarchy bros are people who have asked to be on my podcast, who have retweeted me and praised me in the past, who have, you know, given me

Starting point is 00:17:07 virtual high fives. And then suddenly it was, oh, actually, no, a woman shouldn't be having a podcast. She shouldn't be talking about these things. This is a battle that is being thought. And women just aren't equipped for battle. Yeah, I agree that women are not equipped for physical battle. don't believe that women should be in armed combat positions. Please do not equate a podcast to combat.

Starting point is 00:17:30 Like, I know that that makes a lot of these podcasting patriarchy bros feel better to equate, like, a physical battle with what they do, which is podcasting. But it's not the same. Okay. It's like, it's, it's not the same. I'm talking. And that is actually something that women traditionally have been really good at is communicating. I think men can be really great at communicating too, but that's kind of like our like women's thing. Like we talk a lot. And what do we say? It's like 10,000 words a day. I definitely say more than that compared to men who I think say like 5,000 or less.

Starting point is 00:18:10 Look, this is not, this is not a real battlefield. Okay. Like I don't want to go out and fight or I do want to podcast though because I've always liked to talk and I'm still talking. And that's what we're all. doing in this podcast space we're talking. And I do think it's okay for women to do that. I know. I'm so radical. Now, do I think, do I agree that the husband is the head of his wife and the head of his family and that a wife is called to submit to her husband as to the Lord? Yes, that's Ephesians 5. Of course I do. And I've also said many times that women should not be pastors biblically. It's just not our role. We are called to do many things, but we are not called to be pastors. and preachers in a church. But there are many, I think, who want to expand that prohibition to every area of public life.

Starting point is 00:19:03 And I just cannot get on board with that. I don't see it biblically. And it just seems like so many of these men are very angry at a lot of things. And I guess I won't psychoanalyze much more than that. What is my stance on DACA, deferred action for childhood arrivals? I don't like it. I think it's a whole horrible system that we have put in place. Like, we're talking about 17-year-old boys. We're not just talking about like three-year-old toddlers, talking about like 17-year-old boys, considered minors, and they get to come here and not get deported because of DACA. First of all, I think how it was decided was how it was implemented, was completely unconstitutional. And I do not believe that any illegal alien should be allowed to be in the United States. I do. I do. I do. I think. don't. Okay, let me tell you about America's Christian Credit Union. So unfortunately, we've seen conservatives, Christians being debanked because of their views. They can no longer work with their

Starting point is 00:20:07 financial institutions. You don't want to have to worry about that. And so switch to America's Christian Credit Union for over 65 years. America's Christian Credit Union has been serving God-fearing Americans with integrity and faith. Switch to America's Christian Credit Union for great rates, cutting-edge mobile banking, and access to over 5,000 shared branches, and 30,000. thousand ATMs nationwide. They make switching really easy. It was founded by pastors for the benefit of its members. For a limited time, you can earn $400 when you open a new checking account with qualifying activities. Plus, my listeners get an additional $100 bonus with the promo code, Allie at checkout. Go to America's Christian CEO.com slash Alley. America's Christian Credit Union is federally insured by the NCUA. Next question, how would you handle your adult children? moving back home. I would be happy about it. I mean, I might not be happy about whatever circumstances made them feel like they had to move back home because there could be some very bad circumstances that would lead them to having instability in their life and would lead them to sharing a roof

Starting point is 00:21:19 with us again. But, you know, I just don't believe. I don't believe in kicking your kids out when they turn 18 or even when they turn 25. Now, there's a difference in failure to launch. a kid who is just immature, they're just wanted a free ride, they don't want to work hard, they don't want to be self-sufficient, okay, that's a problem. But a child or, you know, an adult child, especially a daughter that is working, saving money, just wants the protection, the comfort, the convenience of being home until they are ready to move out or until they find a spouse to get married to and live with. Like, I'm totally fine with that. I think America is so hyper individualistic in some ways that we think that the measure of success is being isolated.

Starting point is 00:22:09 And I just don't believe that. I don't believe that. I want my kids to know that they can come back home anytime they want to and that that is not a failure. That's not something to be embarrassed about. And so it depends on the reasoning, yes, but it's not coddling to say, yeah, this is your home. We are your parents forever.

Starting point is 00:22:29 you're a child forever. This is a place that you can come and feel safe and save money and all that good stuff. What is my take on an open womb? I get this question a lot and that is basically not using birth control. Just being intimate with your husband and seeing what happens. And a lot of people live that way. Obviously, that is largely like Catholic doctrine that does not believe in any form of birth control. Now, some people who believe in open womb, I don't know if you would call it open womb theology or the idea of an open womb would say they would not even do natural family planning. So natural family planning is basically where you avoid sex during ovulation because you can't get pregnant every single day of the month. You can only get pregnant a few days of the month. And so people

Starting point is 00:23:24 who do natural family planning, maybe they don't believe in birth control, they don't like birth control. that includes like the barrier method, hormonal birth control, all of that stuff. They don't believe in it or they just don't want to do it. They might do natural family planning. Now, some people who are open womb, they don't believe in that either. They truly are just like, look, we're going to be intimate whenever we're going to be intimate. And if the Lord wants to give us kids, we will. And that is from, you know, the wedding night all the way until menopause when she is not able to, you know,

Starting point is 00:23:58 conceive anymore. And I don't have anything against that. Of course, I don't have anything against that. Now, I'm a reformed Protestant. There are reformed Protestants who are against every form of birth control. I am not against every form of birth control. I don't think that we have to have an unlimited number of children. Now, I can't say that I have an exact formula for you to follow, and I'm not sure anyone does, an exact formula for you to follow that says, this is when you know, that you are done. This is the limit on the number of children you can have. I don't have, I don't have something precise to follow when it comes to that, but I do think that we have to examine our motivations. Why are we either putting off having children or not having any more

Starting point is 00:24:45 children? Is it because of a lack of trust? Is it because of fear and anxiety? Is it because of selfishness? Is it because of something superficial or vain? Or is it something else? Is it something deeper than that. And so I think we all do have to be really honest and be prayerful and trust God with those things. But I am not morally or theologically against every single form of birth control. I am against hormonal birth control, any kind of hormonal birth control, whether it's the pill, whether it's IUD, because it can make the womb inhospitable to life. and that means a fertilized egg. So you can fertilize an egg. That's the point of conception in which that little entity has his or her own DNA. And that can still happen when you are on hormonal

Starting point is 00:25:41 birth control, but that birth control makes the womb inhospitable. So that little fertilized egg might not be able to implant, which means that it is possible for these birth control methods to be an abortifacient. And that is why ethically they're different than something like the barrier method. So that's my thought on that. I could probably give you like more detailed theology surrounding that and Protestant versus Catholic and even, you know, some forms of Protestant versus other forms of Protestant and the disagreements that we have on things like birth control and open womb. But that's, those are my basic thoughts. Another question, are we too dependent on technology? Yeah, I certainly think in a lot of ways. I think that we see this manifest itself most prominently in parenting that the new form of a pacifier is like the tablet or the iPad or games on a phone. I am not anti-technology. Obviously, I'm not some Luddite. Like I have a podcast that you have to access using technology. I have my phone. I have my iPad. I really like technology. And we are not 100% screen free.

Starting point is 00:26:56 in our home. But I also see what too much screen time does to myself, my own brain. I feel like my brain atrophies that I'm not as creative. I'm not as sharp when I'm on my phone too much. I'm a lot more anxious. And I think the same thing can happen to kids, probably even more so because their brains early on are still forming. They're still learning so much. And that's really the time that you want them to exercise their brains. It's kind of like for us, when you're thinking about, when you're thinking about your muscles and when you're thinking about when you can become the strongest and the most fit. It's probably in those teenage years and the decade of your 20s, not that you can't get fit in your 30s and beyond, but that's really when the body is kind of at its best, it's most pliable,

Starting point is 00:27:48 it's most flexible. It can change the quickest during those years. Well, the same is true for the brain, a child's brain is so malleable and is forming so quickly when they're young, that's really the time that you want it to be pushed to its limits of creativity and thinking and problem solving because it really lays a good foundation. And I think that screens can take away from that because they're just so easy. That to say, I'm not against limited screen time at all. That would make me a huge hypocrite because we do have limited screen time in our house. But it cannot be the pacifier. It cannot be the parent. It cannot be a form of sedation for the child because we are too stressed out. We are too stretched thin. We lack too much self-control to be able to help them to regulate their emotions. We need to let our children be bored. We need to let them have an imagination. And I found, and we don't do this perfectly as parents, but I found when you allow your child to kind of like push past that I'm bored, I'm bored stage, they will figure out something. something to do. But it takes, I mean, it takes Holy Spirit derived patience and the parent too to say,

Starting point is 00:29:01 okay, yeah, I'm annoyed right now. I'm trying to do something. I'm busy, whatever. And they keep on, like, pasturing me for a snack to do this, to do X, Y, Z. But like, the usually the best and right thing to do as a parent is also the hardest thing to do. So you have to push past that a little bit and just allow your kids to be bored. I know for me, like that is when I got to exercise the most creativity growing up, which really helped me a lot. Do I ever deal with doubts and fears about heaven being real or what happens after death? There are definitely moments where I'm like, I just think. I'm like, wow, is there anything beyond this? Of course. There are moments like that when you're like, wow, this seems so surreal. It's so hard to imagine. I really believe in this

Starting point is 00:29:47 whole narrative of redemption that is in the Bible. Of course, there are moments that I have doubt in moments that I wonder, wait, is this all real? But then I think I usually work backwards and I kind of think, well, what else makes sense? I know when we all know that good and evil exists, where does that come from? And if good and evil exist, don't I want to believe that something is going to be done about it? We all have this nagging suspicion that something's not right and needs to be made right? What can that be except for morality and eternity written on the human heart, as scripture says? And when I think about the existence of the universe, I actually find it much, much, much harder to believe and have much greater doubts, of course,

Starting point is 00:30:39 about all of this coming from nothing, just being the result of a spontaneous combustion, some big bang and that we all have evolved from bacteria. How can something come from nothing? How can something come from nothing. So I kind of think about that, like just in general, that it really just makes the most rational sense to believe in an intelligent designer. And if there's an intelligent designer, which one is it? Who is it? And then I look at the different religions. I look at the different belief systems. And I look at the fruit of those belief systems. I look at the arguments for those belief systems. And I truly believe that Christianity is not only the best and most fruitful faith, but the only one that is true and the only one that is

Starting point is 00:31:27 reasonable, by the way. And so, yeah, that's how I kind of work it out that I also just think about that Christianity has been the greatest forced for good in all of humanity. And I just don't think that something can be that without also being true. All right. I love Patriot Mobile. so tired and frustrated by everything going on in our country. And we want to do everything that we can to support businesses that support our values. And that is Patriot Mobile. They are the only Christian conservative wireless provider. When you switch, you get the same nationwide coverage as the big providers, but you don't have to worry about funding the left. Their 100% US-based customer service team makes switching really easy. They can find the best and most affordable plan for you.

Starting point is 00:32:21 just go to patriotmobile.com slash alley. When you use my code alley, you get a free month. Patriotmobile.com slash alley code alley. What if surrogacy became illegal? What would happen to all the babies frozen in time? Yeah, I think that's a good question. There are a million frozen embryos, more than a million frozen embryos on ice right now. And that means that they're abandoned or maybe their parents are paying for them to be frozen indefinitely.

Starting point is 00:32:52 or they have been donated to science or they're up for adoption right now. There are no plans to transfer an implant a lot of these embryos. There is something called a snowflake adoption where you can adopt one of these embryos. You can transfer it into your uterus and hope that it implants and that it grows into a full-grown baby and you give birth. And of course, this baby is not biologically yours in that case, but it's been given life, which I think is an option. I think that that can be an ethical thing to do. However, however, it is surrogacy. That is a form of surrogacy.

Starting point is 00:33:40 And if that were the one loophole to abandon surrogacy, like if that were the one exception, that, okay, no surrogacy unless you are talking about a husband. husband and a wife adopting an embryo, transferring that embryo into her uterus, that would be the one form of surrogacy, that if that's the exception, I'd be okay with that. But let's move in the direction of not allowing, say, two men to buy a baby by buying eggs and renting a uterus. Like, let's move in the direction of protecting these kids and ensuring every child has a right to a mother and father. Why are Christian so sensitive when it comes to Trump? Look, Trump is a somewhat divisive figure because of how he talks, because of some of the things that he says, but more than that, because of how he's portrayed. Some of that is his own doing. A lot of it is not. A lot of it is

Starting point is 00:34:37 just the media, fear-mongering, lying. People have cast him as some, you know, Hitler-esque white supremacist. And of course, if someone believes that, that, that's. that's going to turn them off. But I really see a lot of sensitivity on both sides. I see some sensitivity in defense of him. Some people never, ever, ever willing to criticize him, never willing to say that he's done anything wrong, never willing to just be realistic about our election processes. Like they would get mad at me if I said, oh yeah, Kamala has a chance of beating Donald Trump.

Starting point is 00:35:14 They would say that I'm some like anti-Trumper for saying that. That is delusional. That is cult-like. And those people do exist. They absolutely do exist. And then on the other side, you have people who are so sensitive that they won't even say, oh, yeah, it's wrong that someone shot at him. And we shouldn't lie about him.

Starting point is 00:35:33 We shouldn't slander him. And we shouldn't, you know, we shouldn't mistreat him and malign him the way that we have. Those people are so sensitive that they think that anyone who would vote for Donald Trump is basically not a Christian. And so in that sense, he is a polarizing, a polarizing figure. I don't think that he should get in the way of our relationships or our unity as the church. I think in some ways we have allowed that. And really, I think he's just kind of exposed, though, some deeper disagreements that we have in the church.

Starting point is 00:36:11 Because it's not Donald Trump's fault that we really disagree in the church on social and racial justice. but it was under his presidency that that was really highlighted, that one side really believes in a secular, non-biblical Marxist definition of justice. And then, you know, there are obviously some people who are not even part of the conversation because they don't know. But then you've got other people saying, hang on, that's not the biblical definition of justice. Like I would say that's one of the biggest points of division still today. That's not Trump's fault.

Starting point is 00:36:46 but his presidency did just kind of highlight those fissures. Let's see. When your friends has agreed with you on a moral issue like IVF, how do you get around that? So speaking of 2020, I did have some disagreements with a couple of friends. And there were some things that they posted after that that I was like, what? What? But like I knew that these friends maybe were more moderate than me, but the things that they were posting politically and theologically I was very disturbed by. And so I would just gently push back. And actually the conversations that were kind of spicy at the time, they were like a little heated. Now I did feel like I had to be the one and you should feel like this too to be ultra gentle. And to be the one who was above reproach and my kindness and even my tone. and without, you know, shying away from the truth and asking their right questions. And if the other

Starting point is 00:37:46 side was going to be sassy, I was going to let them be sassy. If they were going to be accusatory, it was going to let them be accusatory. And then I would feel out, okay, I got to leave this alone. I got to leave this alone. Now, IVF is super, super, super sensitive because the person who is going through IVF, they've already struggled through maybe years of infertility. And there is nothing like wanting to have a baby and not being able to get pregnant. This person didn't want to go through IVF and they have convinced themselves and have allowed themselves to be convinced that they can take matters into their own hands and they're going to do whatever it takes, whatever it costs, to have a biological baby. And they do believe that the ends justify the means. And honestly,

Starting point is 00:38:29 a lot of them will say, I don't really want to think about the morality and ethics of this right now. I'll think about it later once I have my baby, which is never, ever, ever how a Christian should think about something. Most people who go through IVF are not thinking, oh, I'm going to have leftover embryos. Oh, this is going to be really hard on my body. Oh, these babies might not survive this very dangerous transfer process. Oh, there's going to be genetic testing and a eugenics process in this probably, or at least that's going to be pushed on me.

Starting point is 00:39:01 And yet that is the scenario that a lot of these couples find themselves in. not every single one, but a lot of these couples. And once that train starts going, it's really hard to stop, not to mention the fact that very often, very often, the whole process starts with pornography and masturbation for the man. So, I mean, there is a reason why it is very ethically tricky to take procreation outside of the active sex. Remember, technology can take us from what's natural to what's possible. And when it does, we have to ask, but is this moral? Is this ethical? Most importantly, is this biblical? Just because the technology makes it possible to do something does not mean that it is right to do that thing. And IVF is not the same as cancer treatment

Starting point is 00:39:51 or any other medication. That's what a lot of people like to say, that if you reject IVF, you have to reject every other form of medical intervention in science, well, no, because the forms of medical intervention and science are not creating new life. And it's amazing to me the disconnect, the dissonance in people who are pro-life who understand that the fertilized egg and embryos are living human beings, are people made in the image of God when they're talking about abortion, but they don't see them the same way when you're talking about IVF. And the only difference is because it's you and it's something you want. But we should never ever sacrifice the well-being, the safety of children for our wants. People also get very angry when you bring up adoption

Starting point is 00:40:37 when it comes to infertility. Don't get angry about that. Okay, there are lots and lots of babies who and children who need adoption. And you're right that you would make an excellent mom and dad. And so pursue that route instead that is really redemptive. And you don't have to worry about potentially destroying human life and the process. So anyway, to answer your question, if you can push that hard with a friend, I would try. But, you know, you have to feel it out. And you have to try to maintain the relationship as much as it depends on you anyway. Okay, guys, you need your Jace case from Jace Medical. You need those common antibiotics stowed away just in case you need them. If for some reason the supply chain goes whack and you need those antibiotics for a common infection,

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Starting point is 00:42:00 go to jace.com slash alley used code alley at checkout you'll get a discount on your order jes.com slash alley code alley. What's my take on deliverance ministries? Not a not a positive take. Not a positive take. I'll tell you that the deliverance ministries that say that I'm going to deliver you from all of your troubles. I'm going to deliver you from all of your sickness and your ailments.

Starting point is 00:42:32 I would say most of those are fake and hokey. I'm not saying that God cannot heal people. Of course he can heal people. He can heal people miraculously. He can heal people in a moment. And I think he does do that when he chooses to do that. But the people who claim to have deliverance ministries, very often they're going to poor countries or they're praying upon poor people here. And they're saying, sow your seed by donating to me in my ministry or step out in faith by writing me a check. And when you do, the Lord will reward you through healing. They want fame. They want the power.

Starting point is 00:43:05 They want the platform. They want the profit of deliverance, but not the obedience to God. And yeah, I think most of it, I can't say all because I guess I don't know what all that could entail these deliverance ministries, but I think they're exploitation. And if those people do not repent, I really do. I mean, this phrase might not have that much theological grounding, but you understand the spirit behind it. Like, there's a special place in hell who, for people who spiritually manipulate the sick and the tired and the poor into giving their resources in exchange for healing that is not

Starting point is 00:43:49 real, a special, special place in hell. last question what is the difference between a democratic republic and a democracy while a democracy is just everyone everyone goes and votes and everyone's vote counts once and whoever is in the majority like that's the decision that's made that's the person that is elected but we've got an electoral college we have electors that we are choosing to vote on our behalf for the president for example, we have representatives, we have senators. It's not just a pure democracy. We have people who are representing us, both in our capitals, in our states and also the nation's capital. And it is simply far more stable. It prevents something called the tyranny of the majority. When the 51% dominate the 49% that ends up being this kind of mob rule.

Starting point is 00:44:52 unstable form of government, a representative democracy, what we are supposed to be, a representative republic is far more stable and actually ensures that the less populous areas still have representation, at least nationally. So that's what it's supposed to look like. And so that's why it actually is troubling when you hear people on the left say, oh, let's protect our democracy. We're a democracy because they want that. They want the mob rule. They want the tyranny of the majority. They want the 51% to dominate the 49%. And so, yes, be careful about that.

Starting point is 00:45:33 We can say, yes, we have a democratic process. We can say in general that democracy is good as a general idea, just that we get to vote and we have a say. But it is important to distinguish between a representative democracy and a republic versus a pure democracy. All right. Thanks so much for all of your thoughtful questions. We'll be back here soon.

Starting point is 00:45:52 Thank you.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1056 | “Open Womb” Theology: When Can Christians Stop Having Kids? | Q&A

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