Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1063 | Everyone Is Racist | Guest: Matt Walsh

Episode Date: September 9, 2024

Today, we’re joined by Daily Wire’s Matt Walsh to discuss his new film, “Am I Racist?” In the film, Matt shares his journey of becoming a “certified DEI expert” and exposes the money-driven industry behind the social justice movement. Matt shares what surprised him most about making the film and going undercover. We talk about the spiritual component of this issue and explain why so many race-baiters lean toward self-flagellation. We look at a recent story of race-baiting, and Matt explains a little bit of how he got access to people like Robin DiAngelo for this film. Then, Matt gets a chance to respond about his viral take on raw milk. Get tickets to see, "Am I Racist?": https://www.amiracist.com/ Get your tickets for Share the Arrows: https://www.sharethearrows.com/ Pre-order Allie's new book: https://a.co/d/4COtBxy --- Timecodes: (00:43) What is racism? (05:12) Can we pay our way out of racism? (09:08) The Moana problem (16:45) What surprised Matt about the documentary (18:46) The spiritual component & dividing Americans (30:17) People who pushed back on Matt’s premise (36:45) Chick-fil-a race story (43:23) How did Matt get access to these people? (45:25) Matt’s raw milk take --- Today's Sponsors: Good Ranchers — use my code ALLIE to claim the Presidential Promo worth over $1,200 AND also claim $25 off your first box plus free express shipping and bring 100% American meat to your family meals until 2028. Jase Medical — Go to Jase.com and enter code “ALLIE” at checkout for a discount on your order. We Heart Nutrition — Get 20% off women's vitamins with We Heart Nutrition, where 10% of every purchase supports Pregnancy Care centers; use code ALLIE at https://www.WeHeartNutrition.com. Seven Weeks - Experience the best coffee while supporting the pro-life movement with Seven Weeks Coffee; use code ALLIE at https://www.sevenweekscoffee.com to save up to 25% and help save lives. --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 1014 | Anti-White Racism in the Church, at Work & in Law | Guest: Jeremy Carl https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1014-anti-white-racism-in-the-church-at-work-in/id1359249098?i=1000657966250 Ep 671 | Fake Racism, Fake Oppression, Fake Science, Fake Love https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-671-fake-racism-fake-oppression-fake-science-fake-love/id1359249098?i=1000578077868 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Matt Walsh is the host of DailyWire's Matt Walsh show. He is an author. He is a documentary maker. And you might not know this, but he is also a DEI anti-racist expert. And he is going to tell us today how we can escape the oppression of whiteness and systemic racism in this country through what he learned in his new documentary, Am I racist? This episode is brought to you by our friends and good ranchers. Go to good ranchers.com. use code alia check out that's good ranches.com code alley.

Matt, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. So you went on quite a journey, hair journey, anti-racist journey. There were a lot of journeys happening at once in this documentary. And as a white woman myself, I learned a lot about race and racism that I didn't know. So I was wondering if you could help us, or maybe primarily white audience, I think, understand a little bit. I guess the first basic question is like, what is racism and how do we diagnose ourselves with it? Well, I mean, the first thing you have to understand is that there's no solid definition for racism. Because if there's a solid definition for it, then that means it's possible to not be it.

Because you could look at the definition and say, well, that's not me, I'm not that. But the most important thing that you learned that I learned on my journey of self-discovery is that as a white man myself, I'm racist no matter what. There's no way to escape it. And so I guess the definition of racism is whatever you happen as a white person, whatever you happen to be thinking or feeling at this very moment in time, that is what racism is.

And if you think or feel something totally different in the next moment, then that is also racism. Because keep something in mind. And Robin DiAngelo, the great Robin DiAngelo, said this to me in the film that there's no way to be not racist. Racism is on a spectrum. You know, we love the spectrums, folks. And so you can be less racist, you could be more racist in any given moment. But you can never be not racist. and the first step in being not racist is to realize that you can never be not racist.

Right. If that makes sense. Well, I remember you presented her with like, I don't know, maybe you could call it the hallway quandary or the hallway problem. As you were speaking to the great Robin DiAngelo and you said, okay, if a black person says that smiling at them is racist one day, but the next day says that you didn't smile enough, both of those. be considered equally racist. And we really have no defense to that, right? Am I understanding that right? Like, that we simply have to take on those accusations and say, yes, it doesn't matter what my intent was. That was racist, that I didn't smile at you, but also that I did smile at you. Is that right? Exactly. And intent is very important. You have to understand that intent,

intent doesn't matter at all. It doesn't matter at all what you meant when you did something. Because you might see, a lot of people you go into this journey and you're confused. You think, you think that whenever you do or say something, like the main thing that matters is what you meant and intended when you did and said it. But a big part of the journey is to realize that that it's not the case. It does not matter what you meant, what you intended, your own motivations don't matter. it is entirely up to the person who is perceiving as the person on the outside, if it's a non-white person, they get to decide however they felt about it is what you intended, whether you intended

it or not. So it's a little bit confusing, but that's the thing. And that's why something seemingly as simple as your facial expressions when you're around a person of color, that it's fraught. You just, you never know. And it could be racist to smile at at a person of color. When I first heard that, I thought to myself, great. I'm safe because I smile like two times a year and I'll just, I'll save those. I won't use those on a person of color. But then I come to find out that not smiling is also racist. And, and it, but how do you know which one? Well, you don't. It's the person of color who is perceiving it, who's witnessing it. Right. They, they are the ones who decide, and they'll let you know whether it was racist or not. And when they let you know, all you can say is

okay. Thank you for telling me. I'm also gathering that it is simultaneously racism is inescapable for people of less melanin like you and me. It's totally inescapable. We are born into it. It is basically an innate part of our system and therefore character. But at the same time, you can maybe pay your way out of it because you can pay, you know, $30,000 or $50,000 to one of these people to basically kind of like be your Sherpa out of the racial construct and like out of racism. So I guess I'm confused. Like is it possible for me to take certain steps to do the work and pay the money to not be racist? Or am I just always going to be racist and why should I pay Robin DiAngelo in the first place? I'm trying to square that.

Well, and you're, see, that's something you're trying to square. You're doing something called rational thought, okay? You're trying to apply rational thought. You're trying to understand, which, and these are both rational thought and understanding are hallmarks of white supremacy. And so what I'm picking up from you is your own white supremacy speaking. So I'm getting a lot of racism, even from what you're saying right now, because you're demanding, you're hearing something, you're saying, well, I want to understand that.

Your demand, the demand that you're making for something to make sense is, that's white supremacy. You're saying, as a white person, this thing has to make sense to me. And so frankly, how dare you? But to answer the question, you can't pay your way out of racism, but you should still pay. So pay and consult these people, pay them what they ask. obviously don't question whatever they ask pay it it's it's what they need um do do the work do all the work that they say yeah and when you're at the end of that process you'll discover that you're you're still not not racist um you're probably not even less racist but you're but you're paying and you're

doing the work and there's some there's some value in that you just have to take that on faith is all i can say yeah so not only am i getting nothing in exchange i'm actually kind of still getting punished for doing the work that I'm being asked to do and paying the money that is being demanded. Okay. Absolutely. Absolutely. Let me take a quick pause from that conversation to tell you about a first sponsor. And that is WeHeart Nutrition.

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their postnatal vitamin. Of course, their iron, their magnesium. I think it's made a really big difference in my health. If you go to Weheartnutrition.com, you can take a 20 second quiz. They'll customize a vitamin regimen for you. Go to weheartnutrition.com. Use code Allie for 20% off your order. Weheartnutrition.com code Allie. There's another quandary here, and I'm trying not to, like, you know, you mentioned rational thought being bad, and I'm trying not to critically think too hard about this. I think that seems to be an important aspect of this is just kind of suspend all thinking. But you do pose a question in this documentary that I still haven't been able to figure out, and that is the Moana problem. I'm, you know, I'm a mom of daughters two. And as you, as you pose to this. anti-racist expert, is it cultural appropriation or appreciation when we allow our daughters to watch something like Lilo and Stitch or Moana? So here's SOT One for everyone. My daughter's four years old. I am an anti-racist educator, quote unquote. She's still watching Disney movies and she is choosing

a white princess over princesses of color. Have you talked to her about that? All of the time. My three-year-old daughter is very, her favorite princess is Moana. What it. It's a good sign. Yeah. But then I also thought, you know, there's a little bit of cultural appropriation here. She wants to be Moana for Halloween. Mm-hmm.

So how do we navigate that? Do I go and buy the Pacific Islander native attire for my white three-year-old? I wouldn't. I wouldn't. But I guess what we might call the Moana problem here is what, uh, On one hand, it's called to appropriation. On the other hand, there's gravitating towards white characters. Right.

So it's almost like no matter which way you go, you end up back in racism. We think every space belongs to us because we live in a white supremacist society. There's just so much to unpack there. And the wisdom, obviously her wisdom is from her lived experience, I guess. It's interesting how she also becomes as a redhead, like a representative of the more melanated community. And I guess, yeah, I just want to do the right thing. So should I is the last racist thing to do to only allow my daughters to like Cinderella because she has blonde hair and blue eyes? What's your thought on that?

Well, listen, there's no way out of it. And I think our first, the first step in doing the work is to realize that there's no way out of it and to just accept that. You're racist either way. And I've struggled with this ever since. I had that conversation with that. That was Kate Slater, the anti-racist educator. And I've, because, you know, you come away from that and it's like there's not really an answer. She didn't really give an answer.

So kind of where I've settled on this is. I still let my daughter watch Moana, but I sit in the room while she's watching it, and I glare at her disapprovingly the whole time. And so I let her, so I let her watch it, but I make sure she feels bad while she's watching it. And that's the only way that I've found to thread this needle. You know, we're all trying our best to decenter our whiteness.

And that's, I'm trying my best here. I guess you could do the opposite, too. You could either allow your child to watch Milana and say, like, hey, don't like this too much. And if they ever like start singing along or getting enthusiastic, you could say, no, absolutely not, calm down. Or you could do like, okay, we're only going to allow them to watch Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty and glare at them then, you know? Like, oh, also don't get too excited about this because these are white princesses. I think the point is like you just always make your kids kind of like feel bad. I think that's probably the goal, the anti-racist goal.

Right. Well, your kids are white. So that's the goal in general, is you want to make sure that white people feel bad all the time. I mean, you could have, yeah, I suppose you could put on Cinderella or a little mermaid of one of those. And then afterwards ask or require that your child write a brief report outlining all the ways that this princess benefited from white privilege. and, you know, colonial structures of oppression and that sort of thing. And so, you know, that's an approach you could take. I think maybe that's another way to navigate this.

Yeah. I think at the end of the day, what the really important thing is is that we should never feel good about ourselves, right? Our children should never feel good about themselves. We should always just be feeling bad, bad, bad, all the time with nothing good in exchange and just knowing that we are going to, like, receive the ire and resentment of the people that we are trying to, you know, make it up to. And that's really beautiful. It is a beautiful thing. I find it really encouraging. The idea that I should just feel awful all

the time, I find to be, I find to be quite, it's quite an optimistic view of things, quite hopeful. And by the way, this is something that I was directly told in the film, in fact. I mean, this is basically a direct quote from one of the anti-racist experts that I talked to, a woman named Sarah Tocola, who previously was famous for a viral video a few years ago where she kicked some, tried to kick some white kids out of a study hall that she had declared was only a study hall on campus only for people of color. And she was maintaining racial segregation on campus. And of course, then she becomes a DEI expert from that experience. But one thing she said that I thought was really powerful is that it's important for white people to feel

bad because of what their ancestors did. That's a direct quote. It's important for white people to feel bad. And the first time I heard someone say that directly. Yeah. And I said, well, okay, I can do that. Y'all, I love seven weeks coffee. We love the taste of seven weeks coffee in my home, but I just love what they stand for. At seven weeks, the baby inside the womb is the size of a little coffee bean. that's why they named their company seven weeks coffee. They care about really high quality, great tasting coffee, but they also want to use the resources that they have to help save the lives of babies. And that's why they donate 10% of every sale to pregnancy resource centers. They've raised over half a million dollars for pregnancy resource centers across the

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people, but even knowing that you're, you know, walking into a situation where you're going to be hearing a lot of nonsense, was there anything that truly just took you aback and you realized, wow, these people really believe this? Okay. So we're switching out of sarcasm mode now. Yeah. Well, you kind of transitioned us nicely with the answer to that question. So now we're in serious mode. All right. Well, so I ruined the transition. I totally botched it. No, it's good. I'll say what surprised me about it. I mean, I guess what I was most surprised by, I wasn't really surprised by the grifter types

and the things that they said was kind of what I expected them to say, although still quite disturbing to sit in the room and hear it. It was the other, the people who are not, the people that are getting sucked into this scam, into this cult, I was a little surprised by the fact that many of them to me, seemed more genuine than I thought they'd be.

It seems like they're true believers. I kind of figured that, you know, if you do something like you're one of the white women at the table at a race to dinner session or early in the film, we go to a workshop, almost like an AA style support group for white people who are struggling with their white privilege sitting around in a circle. And, you know, I guess going into this, I would have thought that if you're one of the white people that goes to something like that, that it must be like 95% virtue signaling,

that you're doing it so that you can then tell your friends, oh, hey, I went, you know, the race to dinner, I went to one of those. And from being in the room, I think it's more like 10% virtue signaling, and 90% they believe it. And they really think that this is, that they need to do this somehow

to atone for their white sins. And I guess I was surprised by that. And also, So, you know, it makes the whole thing more, I guess, more sad than I thought. Yeah. You talk about self-flagellation in it. And, of course, from like a humorous perspective, trying to define what that is. But do you think that is that 90% that they are trying to punish themselves?

Or do you think they're truly hopeful that somehow they're going to be able to break out of this supposedly white supremacist system and, you know, I don't know, do good for the marginalized communities? I think it's a little bit of both, but I do think that there's a kind of a spiritual component to this. And I've thought a lot about it. And I don't, I can't, you can't go, you can only go so far psychoanalyzing these people. But I do think that, I do think that they, you know, they walk around with guilt. And everybody has guilt. All people have guilt because we're fallen, you know, we're a fallen race. And we commit sins. And you do things you're not supposed to do. And so you feel guilt about it. But of course, if you are a member of a, let's say, traditional religion, then you have some kind of framework for understanding your feelings of guilt. And you have something to do with it. There's something that you could take it somewhere and do something with it. And there's hope at the end of it.

Hope at some point of being released of it, free of it at some point, whether in this life or the next. But if you don't have that religion, if you're a secular person, then I think you, you know, you still have the guilt, though, but you have no way of understanding it. You have no framework for understanding it. So I think that these kind of anti-racist grifters come along and they say, okay, well, you're feeling this way. And I'll tell you why you're feeling it. It's because you're white. And here's all the things you can do with this burden of guilt that you carry to be relieved of it. And of course, after they do it, they're given the bad news that, okay, well, good job for doing that.

But you're still just as racist as you were before. So they stay stuck in this kind of guilt spiral that they can never be free of. And that's why I say, for them, it's like, it's authentic. I mean, I saw in all of these, in both environments that I mentioned, you know, these people were breaking down in tears. they were crying. There might be an element of performance to that, but I don't think it's all performance. They really are like desperate to be free of this guilt that they've been told that they have. And yet there's no hope in the message ultimately.

So it's pretty sad. It really is like a desire for a religious experience, I think. And it's the ritualisticness, if I may, of religion. Of course, without any of like the beauty and the grace. of religion because you're told to repent, but that you can't really repent. Of course, like, repent means turn away from your sin, but you're being told that no matter where you turn, you should repent, but it's going to be like a 360 degree turn. Like, you're going to be turning right back to your sin. You're never going to be free from it. You know, like Christianity says

that Jesus' burden is light and his yoke is easy, but this is like, no, let me place this really heavy burden on you that you yourself aren't even guilty. before, but like they use this vague terminology like your ancestors. And they're not even talking specifically about our ancestors because they have no way of knowing if like your ancestors or my ancestors really did own slaves. They're just talking about people who generally looked like us who lived somewhere in proximity to us 200 years ago. We have to not only like bear the guilt of other people living today that kind of look like us, but we have to bear the guilt of people who lived centuries ago who kind of looked like us, even if they had no relation to us.

That's like the exact opposite of the grace and the redemption and the repentance of Christianity and all of the legalism and like the most terrible aspects of false religion. Yeah, I think you're right. And the other thing about Christianity is that there's a basic understanding that, you know, It's not that some people are sinners, it's that all people are. And so the Christian message, the gospel message, and it's clear in the gospel, it applies to every, to all people equally. Whereas this kind of, I guess what we might call the kind of DEI version of original sin, it only applies to certain groups. And that's one of the problems with this idea, as you know, like the idea that white people carry guilt for slavery, things their ancestors did.

One of the many problems with that concept is that slavery, in fact, is a universal human sin. It was an institution across the entire world. Every group of people, every race participated in it for literally thousands of years. And I've always said that, I don't want to side drag us too much, but on that topic, I've always said that it's really unfortunate that we talk about slavery in this ridiculous, narrow way where the only kind of slavery we're allowed to acknowledge is the kind that was perpetrated by white Westerners on black people. It's unfortunate for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons is that if we could get out of that, we could actually have, I think, an interesting, worthwhile. conversation about the fact that everybody in the world did participate in slavery, or at least was, you know, condoned it. Why is it that for thousands of years, it like never even occurred

to anyone on earth, apparently, that slavery itself may be fundamentally immoral? That's this massive blind spot that was shared by almost everyone for thousands of years. And we could talk about that. That'd be an interesting thing to really talk about. But we can't because we're not allowed to acknowledge all that other stuff. We have to just keep it. We have to keep up this narrative that white people are the villains of history. And that precludes us from really learning any actual lessons from history. Next sponsor for the day is Good Ranchers.

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and probably on the side of the enslaver. Like no matter what your skin color is, we all have a shared history of conquer versus conquered, like everyone does. And if we all just kind of realize that and what you said about the general fallenness of man, we could get outside of this resentment-based conversation about who is more guilty for what, where we put all guilt for everything on white people and no guilt for anything on black or brown people. Because like you said, like from that perspective and in that context, you can't have any conversation based on truth, based on reality or based on morality. Because if someone is seeing the world through that lens, then everything becomes racism.

Everything becomes a microaggression. And I just fail to see how we can even have a society based on that kind of premise. Yeah, I think you said resentment. And resentment is the key. And that's what these, the anti-racist leaders of America, this is what they want to foster, is resentment, suspicion. I almost hate to use the word division. because it's so overused, it's almost cliche,

but in fact, that is actually what they're interested in is dividing Americans. And what you find is that I think, and we do this in the film, we go and talk to, we talk to the anti-racist people, we talk to the kind of crazy liberal white women who fall into this stuff. We also talk to just normal people,

and we go to a biker bar in the South, and they've got Confederate flags hanging on the walls and that sort of thing. And the kind of place where if you listen to corporate media, you would expect, if you listen to them, to encounter just like vicious racism. And that's not what we found. In fact, what we found was people that said, hey, I'm not, you know, I'm not worried that much about race.

I mean, I noticed if someone is black, but it doesn't, you know, I could still be friends with a black person. We all bleed the same as what they said. And then we went immediately down to New Orleans, the poor parts of New Orleans and the black community in New Orleans. And we're almost exactly verbatim the same. thing. We all believe the same, was the same line. So very similar from these two groups that according to the media would despise each other. So I think that what that tells us is that at least

in modern America, the default position for most people when it comes to race would be kind of, it wouldn't be a big deal to them. That would be their default position for most people who grow up in modern America where you're around a lot of people of other races and ethnicities. It's just kind of like naturally, that's how it is. And if you kind of leave people alone to their own devices on this topic, it's not a big deal. They don't make a big deal out of it. Yeah. I saw even some...

Go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to say, they don't want that. They're afraid of that default position. So they come in early, especially, you know, you want to get in when they're young, when they're kids and tell them, no, no, no, no. Like, you need to notice other races. It really means something. you know, if you're a black person and there's, you go to school with your white classmates,

you need to be suspicious of them and all that kind of stuff. They want to create that resentment and suspicion where otherwise wouldn't be. Yeah. And I mean, there's money to be made in those fissures, obviously, because they can say that there's this huge problem and only them, the ambassadors of anti-racism can fix it for tens of thousands of dollars. I did appreciate the couple people, both white and black, that pushed back on you. of course, that guy that you sat down next to, and he said he immigrated here in, like, the 70s,

and he just completely rebuffed any of your, you know, satirical attempts to try to make him say, no, it was an America racist country. And then also, like, the young white guy who basically told you to, like, shut up and was, like, just, like, stop talking about racism. That was really encouraging, especially coming from a young person. And like you said, I feel like that's the attitude of most Americans. Like, can we please stop talking about this? most of us really just care about personality and behavior.

And beyond that, like, we're being made to make an idol of people's skin color. And that's just not people's natural position or perspective. Yeah, exactly. I mean, we opened the movie talking about in the 90s, growing up in the 90s, which was not a racial utopia. There's never going to be a racial utopia. We know that. And in the 90s, you know, there was the OJ. verdict. There was there were race riots. We know that. So it wasn't perfect. But I know I'm not the

only one who grew up in the 90s and can think back to that. And I grew up, I went to school and it was a diverse community. And it just we didn't, I don't remember sitting around at school, going to public school 13 years, K through 12. I don't remember like sitting around talking about racism constantly. I'm sure the subject came up, but it wasn't it wasn't anywhere near the kind of big deal that it is now, which is interesting because you would think, like as time goes on, and we get further and further away from slavery, Jim Crow,

you would think that things should just kind of be naturally getting better, and it seems like they were for a while, but now we're going backwards, which is why you also have, not to bring it back to slavery, but, you know, you start tearing down the, Confederate monuments and Civil War monuments.

It's just, it's fascinating that people today are, you know, the wounds of the Civil War for people today who were born in like 2002, those wounds apparently are more fresh and more raw for them than it was for people who lived in like 1880. Yeah. You know, we are less able now to talk about the Civil War in a rational, objective, emotionless way than they were literally 150 years ago. Yeah. I mean, back when people who fought in the war were still living.

Yeah. It's crazy. But this is all, it's all deliberate, of course. Well, that's the kind of the conundrum that a lot of like these race baiters find themselves in. Like, on the one hand, they'll say all disparities between white and black people are due to Jim Crow and like perpetual discrimination and racism. But they can't explain why those gaps were smaller when we were.

we're actually closer to slavery and Jim Crow and all of those things. As we get further away from that, shouldn't those gaps be smaller if it's really due to systemic and like historical oppression? But of course, you're not allowed to look at other factors without being condemned as a racist, which again, just means we can't have any honest conversations about anything because we have to start with the premise that white, bad, brown good. And yeah, that's a hard place to be stuck in. Yeah, we can't talk about, of course, family, the state of the family, the state of the black family, 80% fatherless rate, especially in urban communities.

Yeah, we can't talk about those kinds of things. And I do think that when we talk about the fact that we're kind of, we seem to be going backwards, and I'm not the only person to notice that it seems like right around the time Obama was elected. is when this backslide really started in earnest. And I think that, again, was quite deliberate. And one of the reasons is that, you know, we were told about systemic racism that the system itself is rigged against non-white people, so-called people of color, quote unquote. Well, if that's the case, then it would seem that the number one way to prove that the system is no longer rigged against black people is to have a,

a black man who makes it all the way to the top of the system and is now running it and didn't just, you know, he didn't sneak in there. He was elected. So this would be the number one evidence that systemic racism is no longer an issue in America as Barack Obama was elected, which of course it is, you know, but the left looked at that and they said, well, we can't lose that. We can't this idea of systemic racism is such a powerful potent tool. We can't lose it. And so now that ironically, now that we have a black president, we have to redouble our efforts to convince people that America is systemically racist.

And that's when, you know, it wasn't long after that when we had BLM. It wasn't long after that when every police shooting of a black man, even if it was clearly justified, is now, you know, an example of racism. Then it wasn't long after that that we had. this rash that's still ongoing rash of the most absurd hate crime hoax is imaginable. So I think it's all part of that general effort. Last sponsor for the day is Jace Medical. We are in an election season and it feels like we just never know what to expect.

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One of those absurd stories that I know that you've commented on is a man in Maryland who is going through the chick-fil-a drive-thru and his name was Marquise and I guess he didn't speak clearly at least to the person at chick-fellee who was taking his order and the person thought he said monkeys and so which is unfortunate that's an unfortunate mishearing and so he put monkeys on the receipt of course this man whose name is Markis Marquise said that, oh, this is, this was obviously racist. This person was obviously being bigoted towards me because of my skin color. It's amazing to me how people still believe that there is this kind of brazen outright racism out there that would happen at a place like Chick-fil-A

in Maryland when we see, like the repercussions that someone has to deal with, even for just doing something that is perceived wrongly as racist, like that someone really believes that someone would call him a monkey purposely at the Chick-fil-A drive-thru, but this ended up becoming like this viral story that made it on like, you know, in B.C. And we're supposed to believe that, yeah, this is just evidence of more systemic racism. Right. We're supposed to believe that somebody, that some kid working at a drive-thru at Chick-fil-A would just decide randomly to destroy his own life, not just get fired, but destroy his life probably permanently for the sake of calling a black guy a monkey. And by the way, this was a Chick-fil-A in Maryland, as you pointed out.

I grew up in Maryland. It is a racially diverse place. So we could be pretty certain that this kid working the drive-thru, he had served many black customers. And did he call them all monkeys? Or did he just like randomly decide, well, this time I'm going to do it. No, it's a, it's a Of course, it's ridiculous. And actually, you know, I feel bad for the kid, of course. And also, like, you put himself, put yourself in his shoes for a second, because you can kind of imagine, we can't read his mind. You kind of imagine what's going on in his mind because, you know, he asks the guy's name.

He doesn't understand, he thinks he hears monkeys. But in his mind, he can't ask that. Like, he can't clarify. He can't say, oh, did you say, did you say monkeys? He can't say that. And so he's probably thinking in his mind, like, what's a name that's close to monkeys that I could just put here. And he couldn't think of anything. Because Marquise doesn't jump into your mind. And so he puts it down. And, you know, of course

people say a lot of weird things. People probably come through the drive-through and say a lot of weird things that their name is. Maybe they're joking. Maybe they're, like, messing around with their friends. I think he probably just wrote down what he heard, just thinking, you know what? Whatever. Yeah. I mean, people give, I get fake names at the drive-thru all the time because I don't have people spit in my food. So, you know, I mean, who does? Who knows? People get fake names all the time. But of course, we don't, there's no benefit of the doubt anymore for, for anybody. There's no grace. There's no like, okay, hold on a second. I mean, you know, let's let's just assume, before we've even even investigated this, let's just assume that probably this kid is not

some vicious racist racist who infiltrated Chick-fil-A. That would be the irrational, I think. Yeah. A nice way of approaching it. You know, I also felt that when I was watching your documentary, was reminded of that story of the little girls. They were at Disneyland or Disney World and like, or they were at some festival, some fair. And a Muppet passed by these two young girls. And because they were black little girls, the mother assumed that this big Muppet passed by them

because of the color of their skin. And like lawyers got involved, which is, that's a lot. And of course she talked to you. She talked to the news about this. This was a really big deal. And I just thought about that employee who probably gets paid nothing and, of course, didn't do this on purpose. And I hope that her life wasn't ruined.

But, I mean, that's a lot to put on a person with absolutely no evidence. And yet that's like the only kind of accusation that we can lodge towards someone without any proof and not only not be punished for it, but actually be rewarded for it. Yeah. Well, and part of it is when you have. have the framework of systemic racism, when you have the idea that, which is what these anti-racist grifters teach, that all white people are inherently racist to begin with, then when things happen to you, when you have kind of unfortunate, annoying, unpleasant things that happen in your life, you automatically interpret it through that lens. Whereas those of us who

don't have that, we don't have that framework because we don't listen to these people, you know, unfortunate, unpleasant things happen to us. And we, we, we understand it as just, okay, well, things like that happen in life. And this goes, I mean, Michelle Obama, we can remember when she was in the White House, complais a few incidences like this, but I remember one, I think, where she said that she had some horror story, I believe, if I remember correctly, where she was in line for ice cream or something and a woman cut in front of her in line. And she, of course, said, well, that must be racism

because I'm a black woman. Meanwhile, all the rest of us, we've all had the experience of having someone cut in line. And yes, it's annoying. We don't like it. It can even be infuriating if you're already having a bad day and someone cuts in line. But there's no reason to see that in a racial context

unless that's just how your mind works you see everything in a racial context. Yeah, she said something, you know, in that vein at the DNC in her speech. She said, you know, Donald Trump can't stand to see too powerful, well-educated black people become successful. And I'm like, oh, it definitely couldn't be because you're his political opponents. It's definitely because of that. It's all, that's always, it seems like, among those progressive activists, the default. All right.

Oh, go ahead. Yeah, if Kamala Harris was white, then, Donald Trump would, he just drop out of the race and say, okay, you can be president. You know, he would, he would just get, if she was white, he would, we know famously, like, when he's going against white opponents, he doesn't, he's very gentle, he's very nice. And, and, and he barely even campaigns, you know, so. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely just because of skin color for sure.

Okay, I want to ask the question that I know everyone is wondering, and I know that you've been asked before, but as I'm watching this, as everyone is watching this, we're thinking, how in the world, did you get access to these places? Like, how did you become the waiter at this, like, race to dinner thing? Like, how did you bring cameras in there and get to, like, play this role in these places? And these people don't even realize who you are or what you're doing. Well, I can't give away all the secrets of the trade. unless I knew I wanted to give up making these kind of movies entirely and I wanted to retire from this particular business, which I don't.

But I will say that there's no hidden cameras. I know I've seen that question online. Well, it's not hidden cameras. Everybody knows they're on camera. And they all signed releases to be filmed. So I can say that much. Why would they not be more skeptical? Why didn't they ask more questions?

why didn't they scrutinize a little bit more? To that, I really don't know. All I can say is that the answer that I have given is that part of it is that there's a certain arrogance that comes with being in this world. And you're very insulated from people who disagree with you from alternative perspectives. Somebody like Robin DiAngelo, for example, I don't know or I don't know what happens in her personal life. But I can imagine that she is not very often finding her. yourself in rooms with people who don't agree with her already on everything. Yeah.

And so it's kind of like this false sense of security that comes with that. And so I think that many of them just couldn't imagine that they just could imagine it going this way. They couldn't imagine that I was going to do anything but agree with them and try to paint them in as positive a light as possible. Yeah. Wow. Okay, we have to end on this.

Speaking of white people, um, Milk, raw milk. You went viral. I mean, you're going viral for a lot of different things. It seems like on a weekly basis. But this time it was because of your raw milk take. And people got really upset with you. Were you surprised? Because you said at raw milk, unpasteurized milk is disgusting. People should not be consuming it. Were you surprised at the backlash you received because of that? Yeah, surprised. I'm used as well. I don't care that much. I've I've said one thing in my life on the subject of milk and that was it. I've spoken out, I've spoken out one time in my entire life. I've been in the media for like 10 years. I've said a lot of stuff. I've got like thousands of hours of me saying stuff. And that was the one time I said anything about milk. And, you know, people seem to care a lot. It's also interesting. thing that a lot of the backlash that I saw was like people saying, well, how, if people want to drink raw milk, they should be allowed to? How could you tell people they can't drink? I never said you can't drink. I never said it should be banned. I don't think it should be banned. Go ahead and drink all the raw milk you want. Okay. I mean, if you want to drink, if you want to drink cow feces, knock yourself out. I'm not, I'm not going to stop you. No, I'm not going to come over to your house probably and have a bowl of cereal anytime

soon. But if you want to drink it, go ahead and do it. I just happen to think it's pretty gross. and we can disagree on it. I do think it's interesting that for some people, the kind of milk they like is apparently like a center, it's a central aspect of their political identity is milk. And I will say that that part I didn't realize. I didn't realize that it was that important to people, the subject of milk.

Yeah, I didn't either. It's kind of like when you bring up like pit bulls or something like that, which I have been on the receiving end, of a lot of pit bull hate. You know, pro pit bull haters get very upset about this. It, I, you know, I also did not realize that things like that are part of someone's central identity and that they feel very threatened if you have a different opinion than them.

But I thought that that was humorous. Just wanted to give you yet another platform to defend your raw milk views. Matt, thank you so much. People can go to, well, they can go to a lot of places. They can go to Project 2025.com. Right? Find out the truth about that. But they can also go to the, let's see, what's the website for AmI Racist? Is it just Amiracist.com? Amiracist.com? Okay. Amiracist.com? And they can check that out. I make up an artist and I were cracking up when we were watching this. And it's so good. Matt Walsh at his best. Thank you so much, Matt. I really appreciate it. Thank you.