Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1082 | Pastors Invoke Toxic Empathy to Endorse Harris

Starting point is 00:00:00 Nashville pastor Ray Ortland endorses Kamala Harris. Is there ever a reason for a Christian to vote for Harris? But other pastors are giving their congregations what they need, biblical clarity on this election. And so we are going to be talking about the good, the bad, and the ugly in the evangelical world when it comes to this election and politics on today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. go to good ranchers.com, use code alley at checkout. That's good ranchers.com code alley. Hey guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far. Tomorrow is the day. It is the day that toxic empathy is out. Of course, you can go ahead and pre-order right now. That makes sure that your copy gets there as soon as possible.

Starting point is 00:01:03 Toxic empathy, how progressives exploit Christian compassion. We've got that Rosario. Butterfield endorsement right there. The endorsements really are amazing. Al Muller, Katie Fowse, Lisa Childers, Hillary Morgan Ferrer, just awesome people. I'm very grateful, honored, humbled by those endorsements. It helps me out a lot if you can pre-order now or you can go ahead and purchase tomorrow. Amazon has the majority of the copies of really any book that sold, including this book. And so it helps us out a lot. It helps the availability of the book. If you, you purchase from Amazon, you purchase as soon as you can. And then, of course, after the book is out and after you've read it, if you loved and appreciated it, if you could leave me a five-star review

Starting point is 00:01:48 on Amazon, that would be super helpful. We'll be talking a little bit more about toxic empathy today as we get into the pastor response to the election and how they are shepherding their congregations in this season. Also, if you love this podcast, if you appreciate it, if you could please leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts on Spotify. I would be so grateful for that. All right, we've got a lot to get into, so let's go ahead and get into it. I've been meaning to talk about this story, this post that I saw a couple weeks ago for a while, but you guys know how it is.

Starting point is 00:02:24 There's always so much competing for our attention, but I also know you guys really appreciate it when we talk about pastors and pastors who are taking a stand one way or another publicly, particularly when it's. comes to politics. We really reside in that intersection. So it's always of interest to me when we've got an evangelical pastor who is making a political statement. This time we've got Ray Ortland. He is an author and pastor of a church outside of Nashville or in Nashville. And he recently posted an endorsement of Vice President Harris. And he also said that he would never vote for Donald Trump. And it seemed like he was supporting his position by saying that he

Starting point is 00:03:10 believes in Jesus. So he posted this. I originally thought it was on X and I couldn't find it. So I thought, okay, maybe it's Photoshopped, but it was on threads. I'm not on threads, but I saw this screenshot circulating. It has been confirmed that this was really him. He really posted this. So we'll put the picture up. It says never Trump. This time Harris, always Jesus. And then, of course, David French responded to this post and said, this is the way. So a little bit more about Ray Ortland, because some people might be thinking, okay, I've never heard of this guy. Maybe he's just a far left progressive, one of these churches that's waving the pride flag, but that's not who Ray Ortland is. That's not what his church is. However, also, if you've been paying attention to the

Starting point is 00:04:02 things that he's been saying over the years, particularly since 2020, this doesn't come as that much of a surprise. So he's the president of Renewal Ministries and a council member of the Gospel Coalition. We've talked about what I believe to be a leftward drift of the Gospel Coalition a few times. Doesn't mean every author, every piece there should be dismissed outright by any means. but certainly the direction that it tends to lean, especially when it comes to political and cultural issues, is certainly to the left. He founded Emmanuel Church in Nashville. He now calls himself a pastor to pastors, Ray Ortland. And other staff members include Russell Moore. He's a minister in residence at the church, Gavin, Ortland. He is a theologian in residence. On

Starting point is 00:04:55 September 29th is when Ortland posted his fateful statement. Never Trump. This time, Harris always Biden. And I assume also that Ray Orleans probably voted for Joe Biden back in 2020. Forgive me if I'm wrong. But based on statements he made about BLM racism at the time, I would say that's probably a safe bet. He posted this. I don't really totally understand it right after George Floyd was, George Floyd died under the kneeling pressure of, of the police officer. He posted this along with the picture of George Floyd and Derek Joven. He said, Dear racist, why do you keep treating me well? Don't you understand yet that I identify with the man on the pavement, not the man in power. So if you're going to keep behaving in your racist ways, then come after me too.

Starting point is 00:06:00 I demand it. I too am the man you hate. But God loves. And his caption was, if we all take our stand together, well, they can't kill us all. We'll still be here when racism's power is exhausted and spent forever God with us. Now, I will remind you that there is no evidence whatsoever that there was any racial prejudice when it comes to the death of George Floyd. Now, you can say that maybe the tactic of Derek Chauvin wasn't really one that you agree with. You can talk about maybe the policies of police forces in America. That's fine. We can have that conversation, but there is no evidence whatsoever that there was racial animus involved in the death of George Floyd. And of course, much has come out since the death of George Floyd that has made this a much more controversial

Starting point is 00:06:59 situation. Now, it's always sad when an image bearer of God dies, but there are many factors at play in this situation and to immediately say that this was caused by systemic racism, systemic discrimination, well, that is not a discerning judgment because Christians are called not just to relate to someone, but to be rooted and grounded in love, which is inextricably intertwined with truth. As 1 Corinthians 136 says, love rejoices with the truth. And this is a really great example, actually, of toxic empathy. Because when we feel how someone feels, he says, I am the man, I identify with the man on the pavement. Well, when it comes to justice, when it comes to policy. When it comes to these big statements that can inform policy that has an effect on

Starting point is 00:07:58 people's lives, it really doesn't matter whom we identify with. What matters is what is true. And Christians who are supposed to love justice and mercy have to define justice as God defines justice. And one of the key qualities, qualifications of justice that we see throughout scripture from the law giving to Israel all the way through the New Testament is, impartiality. We don't show partiality to someone because they're rich, because they're poor, because they're influential, because they have no influence, white or black, because we perceive that they are on the side of the oppressed or we perceive that they're on the side of the oppressor that is not the truthful, proportionate, and impartial justice that God doles out and that he also

Starting point is 00:08:46 calls us to. That's the problem with toxic empathy is that when we feel how someone feels so strongly, we become blinded to both reality and morality and we no longer are able to make right judgments. We can't test objective reality and therefore we can't actually be judicious in the things that we say and the things that we decide. I have an entire chapter dedicated to social justice. It was one of the most difficult to write because I understand this is a tricky subject and there is some gray and some nuance in this conversation. And yet how many evangelicals approach the issue of race, approached the issue of justice in 2020 was just flat out on biblical wrong and I think damaging and maliciously divisive. I'm not saying necessarily that

Starting point is 00:09:43 every single person who said something like Ray Ortland was deliberately malicious. But there ended up being a lot of malintended actors, I would say, who kind of exploited Christian compassion for their own personal political gain. So the fifth lie that we dissect in toxic empathy is social justice is justice versus abortion is health care. These are all lies. Transwomen are women. Our women love is love. No human is illegal. And we take you through the gut-wrenching, heart-rending stories that would make you believe that these statements are true, but then we zoom out and we say, what is the moral and human cost on the other side of this calculation, on the other side of this problem? And then we ask the most important question, not, okay, who gets us to feel a certain

Starting point is 00:10:37 way, but what is actually true? What is factually true? What is logically true? And what is biblically true? And we do it with all the most controversial subjects and social justice is really the one that I see, tripping Christians up the most. And as I explained in the book, I completely understand that because I've been there before. So let's get into a little bit more about Ray Ortland and his politics and kind of the context of this. And of course, my response in just a second. Let me pause and tell you about our first sponsor for the day. It's Carly Jean Los Angeles. You all know how much I love CGLA. And I'm not just talking about the clothes because I do. I wear CJLA all of the time. It's so comfortable. It's so versatile.

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Starting point is 00:11:50 You get 20% off every time you use my code, Allie B at Carly Jean, Los Angeles.com. In April of 2021, Ray Ortland said this, and this got a lot of blowback. I rejoice at the decline of Bible Belt religion. It made bad people worse in the name of Jesus. Now may we actually believe in him so that our churches stand out with both the truth of gospel doctrine and the beauty of gospel culture.

Starting point is 00:12:21 to that end, I gladly devote my life. Now, here's the thing. I mean, I agree in some ways that Christianity can thrive on the margins. It can thrive in the darkness, just like a candle seems to shine brightly when it is dark. But the goal of the candle is to illuminate, right? And you want enough candles so that a room can be navigated clearly, a space can be navigated. So it's no longer dark and people are no longer fumbling around, tripping over themselves, but they can actually see rightly. And so the goal of Christianity is to infuse, one of the goals of Christianity is to infuse goodness and rightness and truth

Starting point is 00:13:07 and beauty in every space and sphere that we occupy. Would it not be better if more people believed in God's ways? Would it not be better if more people believed that God's ways? that God's truth is the best basis on which we should build our lives. And so the Bible Belt got its name because of the proliferation of churches, the availability of the Bible, just kind of like the background Christian culture. And yes, there are goods and bads to that. I could see in some ways what he means that it can create or allow for nominal Christians,

Starting point is 00:13:45 that you're just kind of someone who says they're a Christian because everyone is a Christian, and you never feel conviction to dig into your faith because it's convenient and comfortable, whereas it's not convenient and comfortable to be a Christian and say Los Angeles. And so for you to say you're a Christian, you have to really believe it. I understand that. But there are great benefits to having a generally Christian culture. There are great benefits to our school system. There's a great benefit to how we conduct our lives and the policies that we influence or that we

Starting point is 00:14:17 vote for because if we believe God's ways are better, there's no way that we can check that belief at the door before we vote, before we engage in culture. It just doesn't make sense to believe that God is the creator and the authority over all things, but we only believe that in this compartment over there. And then we don't try to infuse that reality into every space that we enter in every sphere that we occupy, including the public school system, including our job, including our worldview and how we vote. And if that's the case, like if we are champions of God's authority and his ways and his rightness,

Starting point is 00:14:57 then it should be seen as a good thing when the culture becomes more Christian. There are great benefits to a generally Christian culture and how our country orders its lives and orders its priorities and the laws that are passed that better protect children and that don't incentivize things like homelessness and drug use and public sexual degeneracy, the breakdown of the family. Having a background of a Christian ethos, which in many ways the Bible Belt does, is a great benefit to people no matter what your faith is.

Starting point is 00:15:39 And it's really only when you live in the Bible Belt that you can take that kind of thing for granted. And you can kind of say, oh, no, I'm celebrating Christianity going to the margins. You should never celebrate Christianity going to the margins. Sure, the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. God is going to protect his people, shepherd his flock well, and we will be able to preach the gospel no matter what. But you lose a lot when you lose the Christian worldview as the main, as the keystone of a society. You lose human rights. human rights is a distinctly Christian idea. Charity is a distinctly Christian idea, at least at its foundations.

Starting point is 00:16:20 So when you lose Christianity, you lose all of that. And I just don't think that people do a good enough job of connecting so much of what protects the most vulnerable in the United States to our Christian culture and to our Christian foundations. And so I would just say he's wrong about that, but it makes a lot of sense that he would join ranks with this organization called the After Party. And you've heard about the After Party from Megan Basham. She wrote the book Shepherds for Sale.

Starting point is 00:16:52 And she talks about the history of the After Party. It's an initiative of redeeming Babel. It's a nonprofit that says that they aim to address the underlying theological problems, driving chaos and confusion in our current world. and it basically has an approach that says, you know what, I'm neither Republican or Democrat, but we are outside of that dichotomy and we're going to be confusing to both sides, so they say a lot of times. And we're going to basically transcend party politics and talk about how Christians should vote.

Starting point is 00:17:31 But I don't think it's a coincidence that virtually every person that seems to represent the after party hates Donald Trump. and may tickle left, but definitely punches right. And I think David French and Russell Moore are great examples of that. In May of 2022, the Rockefeller Philanthropy advisors, very left-wing organization announced that the after party would be one of the 32 beneficiaries of their new pluralist project, which was investing $10 million to, quote unquote, address divisive forces. and this is what Megan Basham said. By the way, Shepherds for Sale was a New York Times best seller.

Starting point is 00:18:13 Go Girl. She said Ray Ortland participating in an event with the After Party, a political Bible study program exclusively funded by hard left secular foundations that also promote abortion and transgender treatments on kids. She's not saying the After Party does, but where they're getting their funding from the foundations that support them do, support those things, those issues. She says this is a curriculum that implies why conservative Christians lack sympathy and sensitivity for others. And one of its creators, David French, admitted in an interview

Starting point is 00:18:48 that the after party's purpose is to take on MAGA. She said this is an incredibly political project designed to influence election outcomes, which is why the secular left is funding it. And she posted a screenshot of a picture of something the after party says. It says, wondering how you can shepherd your flock this election year. Pastor Ray Ortland has some thoughts. And so he kind of falls in line with much of what the after party said. And again, that makes sense. He was very supportive. You look at his Instagram of Black Lives Matter. And maybe he feels differently about Black Lives Matter now. I think a lot of evangelical leaders do. I think that they have realize just the ugly underbelly of Black Lives Matter ideology and activism.

Starting point is 00:19:44 I think that they realized that critical race theory wasn't just this boogeyman, but that it actually is intertwined and even a lot of professing Christians' ideas about justice and race, but I really wish more of them would be public about that and would say, you know, I got this wrong and I caused a lot of unfair guilt. among people with a lower melanin count and a lot of unjustified resentment and grievance among people with a higher melanin count. And that was a betrayal of the biblical definitions of justice and gospel unity. I'm not sure that we should be holding our breath on that, but I do wish that there would be some pastors who supported BLN then who would stand up and say, you know, I got that

Starting point is 00:20:38 wrong. And thankfully, there are pastors who are bold. We're going to get to those in just a second and who are extremely courageous and standing up for what is right. And I think guiding their flocks in a way that is extremely discerning. And I think very compassionate too. But I've got one more thing to say about this, this Ray Ortland post. And of course, it's my actual response to what he said in just a second. But let me go ahead and pause and tell you about our next sponsor. It's WeHeart Nutrition. I love WeHeart Nutrition. I take their products every day. This is another Christian family-owned company. They seek to glorify God and all that they do. They're very generous with the resources they're given. They support pro-life pregnancy centers with every purchase.

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Starting point is 00:23:02 since she was in politics in California, I wish that were hyperbole. I wish that weren't an accurate description of her, but it is. All you have to do is look at her history in her political career, and you can see that she is a power-hungry, bloodthirsty woman who will stop at nothing to protect two things, and that is abortion funded by the taxpayer through all nine months. and institutionalized sexual degeneracy and gender confusion. That's who funds her. That is what she probably personally, ideologically really believes in. That's what her political history shows us.

Starting point is 00:23:47 If we go all the way back to when she was in her 20s, of course she had an affair with a married man who had three children, Willie Brown, to get into power. And look, I know Trump's got his personal stuff too. I'm just trying to say that, look, she has her personal sexual past as well, that people seem to just brush over. I hear a lot that, oh yeah, Trump's policies are fine, but his character is terrible. And I hear Christians say this, and the left's policies might not be great, but at least their personal integrity and character is better. That's simply not true. You've got two people

Starting point is 00:24:27 whose past are riddled with all kinds of sexual scandals, all kinds of blatant, well-documented immorality. You've got Kamala Harris, who right now is married to a man who has just been accused, and we've got corroborating witnesses who are substantiating these claims, has just been accused of abusing his ex-girlfriend. Of course, he got his children's nanny pregnant while he was married to his wife. We don't know exactly what happened to that baby. Apparently there was some kind of mysterious miscarriage that went on there. So we already have that in the White House with Vice President Harris

Starting point is 00:25:11 and then her husband, who would be, I guess, the first gentleman if she won. And she has her own past that is riddled with absolute corruption and immorality. when she was district attorney of San Francisco, when she was Attorney General of California, she went after people's constitutional rights if they either got in the way of funding. So for example, there is a story that was published a few years ago by the Huffington Post about this poor mother that was punished, that was prosecuted because of Kamala Harris's truancy policies, anti-truancy policies in the state of California. Her poor daughter was stuck in the hospital because she had sickle cell anemia and so she missed many days of school. But this mother,

Starting point is 00:26:06 of course, tried to get an exception when it came to the attendance rules at the school. But because Kamala Harris found out that the state was losing like over a billion dollars because parents weren't sending their kids to school faithfully enough, she cracked. down hard on what she saw as truancy, including on this poor mother who was just trying to take care of her child. And she is still, this mother is still dealing with the effects of being prosecuted because she couldn't send her child to school while she was in the hospital dealing with the effect of sickle cell anemia. And so we'll put the description. We'll put the link in the description. That's who Kamala Harris is. That's who she always has been. Of course,

Starting point is 00:26:51 she tried to force pregnancy centers in the state of California through the Fact Act to advertise prominently for abortion. The Fact Act was overturned because it was overturned by the Supreme Court because it's such a clear violation of the First Amendment. She tried to compel the speech of pro-life pregnancy centers, many of them led by Christians, of course, to advertise for abortion and abortion clinics. Thank the Lord for the Supreme Court. Thank the Lord for the First Amendment, which Kamala Harris clearly doesn't care about. She is the only attorney general that I know of. You can correct me if I'm wrong to prosecute a journalist. A journalist, David Delighton, pro-lifer, who went undercover investigating Planned Parenthood, seems to have uncovered an alleged pay-for-play scheme

Starting point is 00:27:40 where they were selling baby potty parts for profit at Planned Parenthood. Did Kamala Harris investigate Planned Parenthood just to see if there was any illegal activity? No, she investigated David DeLy Leiden, authorities rated his home on her order, and he is still nine years later dealing with the repercussions of that. He is still dealing with the lawfare. That's who she is. Of course, under the Harris Biden administration, we have multiple pro-lifers who have been placed in prison because of the obscure law that is very rarely actually executed. It's very rarely implemented. The consequences of violating these laws are very rarely implemented, and that is the face Act. And so under the Harris Biden, DOJ, there have been multiple pro-lifers, including

Starting point is 00:28:26 74-year-old Joan Bell, imprisoned because they blocked an entrance to an abortion clinic. Now, you know, you live in a Romans one upside down culture, a good is evil, evil is good culture when abortion clinics have the full support of our government, are not investigated for wrongdoing are actually supported fully by the people in power, but those who are trying to stop the vicious slaughter of babies are put in prison. That is the country that we currently live in. I'm not painting you some future possible dystopian picture. I am painting you the picture of what it is like right now for Christian pro-lifers who take a stand under the Harris Biden administration and under Harris's power in California. I just don't see.

Starting point is 00:29:18 how voting for Harris just this time is what a Christian has to do to save democracy. Like in what world is Kamala Harris a champion of democracy? Because the only thing I see is her trampling upon people's First Amendment rights because they don't support abortion. Again, that is who she is. Of course, she signed off on the Equality Act, which thankfully has not passed Congress. But if it does pass Congress, she will be very quick to sign it. the Equality Act tramples on your freedom as a Christian individual, certainly a Christian business owner, certainly a Christian doctor or nurse, a Christian employee, a Christian church, even a synagogue or even a mosque that has natural marriage definitions between a man and a woman, the definition of gender as male and female.

Starting point is 00:30:13 The Equality Act violates your rights, your rights to exercise in accordance with your beliefs about gender and marriage to speak in a way that actually exemplifies what we believe about male and female. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that Kamala Harris cares about the Constitution at all. And again, she voted against the Born Alive Inven Survivor Protection Act in 2019. that just guaranteed babies who survived abortion a right to life. She voted against that as the furthest left senator in the Senate. You're telling me that Christians have an obligation to vote for that woman? Because what? Because of January 6th?

Starting point is 00:31:00 No, you're going to have to make a better case. You're going to have to make a more solid case than that. I think there is a better case, even though I don't agree with this and I would never encourage someone to do this, there's a much better case for not voting or voting third party or voting for a writing candidate than voting for Kamala Harris. Now, again, I don't think that case is compelling enough. You're still giving half your vote to Kamala Harris.

Starting point is 00:31:22 But I would say this, even if you are just voting against Kamala Harris, it is worth it. For all of the reasons I listed in more, she's anti-fracking, which would be absolutely devastating to our economy. She has been in the White House for the peasant. three and a half years. She has overseen the economic policies that have exacerbated inflation so much, made it so hard for us to live. She is ideologically far left when it comes to immigration policy. She has said many times over the years, as we have played on this podcast, that crossing the border in itself is not a crime. That means she doesn't believe in the deportation of illegal

Starting point is 00:32:05 aliens. And that is why Lake and Riley, as one example, was murdered under her border czar watch. She was also ahead of the border in charge of the border of California in 2015 when Kate Steinle was murdered by an illegal alien because she has always supported sanctuary city policies. She has allowed this open borders chaos that has resulted in, for example, about the raping of children in Nantucket. All of that is avoidable. And all she had to do was enforce the law. All she had to do was ensure that the law was enforced. Instead, under her direction, we have seen the Biden administration remove any efforts, any mitigation tactics, buoys, barbed wire that Texas has put in place. And right now, under the Harris Biden administration,

Starting point is 00:33:02 the DOJ is suing states that are throwing non-citizens off of their voter rolls. One example is Virginia. The Commonwealth of Virginia is actually sounding an alarm about this, that they are currently getting sued by our Department of Justice under the direction of the Harris Biden administration for not allowing non-citizens to vote. In Harris's state of California, it is now illegal to require a voter, or not just a voter ID, but any photo ID to vote.

Starting point is 00:33:35 That is purposeful. Kamala Harris hates you. I mean, I don't know how else to interpret her actions and her policy history except to say that she hates this country. She doesn't care at all about our sovereignty. She doesn't care at all about our borders. She doesn't care at all about your rights as a citizen. She cannot define woman.

Starting point is 00:33:58 She has voted for every measure to. to expand abortion through all nine months and even afterward, she is a liar. She is corrupt to the core. And I just hear so, I hear so many pastors, many of them well-meaning. And these are like pastors that would say that they're conservative, say, you know, both sides are imperfect. Yeah, this side over here on the left, they've got really bad policies. but you know Trump personally is just stop just stop okay they're not the same it is not your obligation

Starting point is 00:34:39 as a pastor to say both sides are bad okay your responsibility as a pastor is to properly exeathe the word of God to you know shepherd your flock well all of those things you know that but it's also to tell the truth is to tell the truth and I'm not saying that a pastor has to explicitly endorse a candidate. I'm not saying that you have to shape your sermons based on the news cycle. I'm not saying that. I don't expect a pastor to talk about politics as much as a political commentator does or as much as I do, but I do expect you to preach the word of God in what scripture says on the issues that are on the ballot. Because for us, these are theological issues abortion gender marriage even justice even to an extent immigration these are

Starting point is 00:35:31 biblical issues immigration in the sense that god is a god of order he gave us nations he gave us governments he gave us laws he gave us cultures we have languages all of these things for order for goodness in the same way that we have marriage we have the definition of gender we have human rights that flow from the idea that we are made in the image of god all of these things are for human flourishing they are gifts of common grace that Christians have to steward. We have to represent them. We have to champion them. We have to be ambassadors of these things because we love our neighbor.

Starting point is 00:36:06 So no, I am not going to vote for the candidate that believes in unmitigated abortion through all nine months. And yes, Republicans are not where I want them to be on that. But I also don't have to like shut my brain down and convince myself that both sides are the same on abortion just because Republicans aren't as pro-life as I want them to be. The two sides are not the same. One side is worse. And no, it's not just Democrats have bad policies, but Donald Trump is really bad as a person. They both have really bad past. But you know what? Donald Trump has children and grandchildren that love him and admire him very much. If I want to look at, okay, whose life looks more orderly and looks more like what God intended when it looks, when you look at their family set up, when you, when you look at their family set up, you look at the legacy that they're leaving, it's not really a complicated answer. It's pretty obvious. Her life, her politics are characterized by disorder, by chaos. Chaos and lawlessness according to scripture is bad. So I think that we should be voting for the candidate who set of policies best mitigates evil, best protects the vulnerable, best creates or best creates

Starting point is 00:37:24 order in peace and it's not even close. It's the Republican Party. Pastors, it is not godly to say both sides are bad and leave it at that. You can say that. It's true that neither side is salvific. That is absolutely true. But every election is a choice between the lesser of two evils. It always has been. And Republicans and their candidates have almost always been too pro-choice. okay and everyone has a past that is sorted to some degree trump and kamala maybe more than others but let's speak very clearly about the policies that are very clearly theological and i'm just asking you to help your congregants clearly navigate those because if not they're going to go somewhere okay i know that pastors think well i'm just going to preach the bible and hope that my and avoid

Starting point is 00:38:22 the political topics and hope that my audience can deduce that. They're not. They're listening to podcasts. They're going on TikTok. They're going on Instagram. But if you want to help shape your congregation's worldview, which I think that you should, then you need to be really clear on abortion, on gender, on marriage, on justice, on these issues that the Bible is really, really clear on. And thankfully, there are some pastors that are being really clear about that. And I'm so grateful for that. So I'm going to highlight them because I love highlighting courage in just one second. But let me pause and tell you about our next sponsor. And speaking of courage, y'all, I absolutely love this organization. It's first liberty. And right now, the future of the Supreme Court is on the ballot.

Starting point is 00:39:07 We have heard progressive activists. We've heard progressive politicians say that they want to pack the Supreme Court. That means expanding the Supreme Court, filling it with left-wing activists because they don't like the check and balance of the Supreme Court. They believe every branch of government and every bureaucrat and ultimately every person in the populace has to agree with them. These are the people that claim to be the guardians of democracy. Even President Biden has gotten into the act by making reforming the court one of his final priorities before he leaves office. But it obviously does not need to be reformed. At First Liberty, they call this assault on the court what it really is, a Supreme Court coup.

Starting point is 00:39:48 And that's why they're sounding the alarm about this. First Liberty protects their client's First Amendment rights, and they are so good at it. They protected those who didn't want to get the vaccine because of religious reasons. They protect your First Amendment rights, and they are championing the constitutional rights of the people who need it most. So go to Supreme Coup.com slash Stucky to say. see how you can help stop the radical lefts, take over the Supreme Court. That's supreme coup.com slash stuckie.

Starting point is 00:40:24 Supreme coup.com slash stuckie. Also, one more thing on that because I forgot I put this tweet out that made a lot of people mad. A lot of so-called progressive Christians mad because I said, you know, the least of these, people say that they're voting Democrat to protect the least of these. and that of course is a reference to Matthew when Jesus says, you know, whoever serves the least of these, whatever you do to the least of these, you do unto me. And that is very, it's a very misinterpreted passage. And it's taken to mean by many people the poor in general, that the least of these is the world's poor.

Starting point is 00:41:15 and people justify that to vote Democrat. Well, first of all, even if that is what least of these was referring to, voting Democrat doesn't help the poor. Unconditional welfare doesn't help the poor. Show me how Democrats have helped the poor, not how they've intended to help the poor, but how they have consequentially helped the poor. Show me that. A lot of people vote Democrat based on the stated intentions of the Democrat Party, which is to

Starting point is 00:41:44 care for the poor and the marginalized, but show me the outcomes. You don't get to judge a policy by its stated intentions. You judge a policy by its outcomes, and the outcomes of progressive policy are chaos. Their craziness. But that's actually not what the passage means. The passage is actually talking specifically about persecuted and suffering Christians. I said this on acts and people got really mad. People are like, oh my gosh, the worst interpretation ever. And I think that It is really interesting how almost everyone who said that has pronouns in their profile. So you think that I'm interpreting Matthew 25 incorrectly, but you couldn't even interpret Genesis 127 correctly.

Starting point is 00:42:32 Like that's in the first chapter, y'all. First chapter of the first book of the Bible. And you think that stating your pronouns as if gender is something to be declared rather than something that is just biologically observed, you think that you have the authority to criticize my interpretation of the passage. But I happen to be right about this, that it's, and it's not me. Of course, I didn't come up with this interpretation on my own. This is a very mainstream interpretation that least of these is primarily speaking, at least, of persecuted and suffering and suffering Christians. And so it would be much more accurate to say,

Starting point is 00:43:11 that Jack Phillips is a part of the least of these, that Lori Smith is a part of the least of these. These are Christians who decided not to violate their sincerely held beliefs about the definition of gender and marriage when it came to the products that they would create. And progressive activists in Jack Phillips's case, an attorney, waged lawfare against them. And for Jack Phillips, it has been over a decade with Alliance Defending Freedom, support, him and defending him all the way up to the Supreme Court. But every time they would win, another activist would try to sue him. But thankfully, the Colorado court vote, or they, they decided in his favor. And so that battle is done. But he has sacrificed a lot standing up for his faith. I mean, the guy wouldn't even make Halloween cakes. These are sincerely held beliefs.

Starting point is 00:44:04 But because the left genuinely, in general, does not care about the First Amendment, does not care about any freedom other than abortion and sexual immorality. They tried to ruin his life. Jack Phillips is much more the least of these than the world's poor is because that's not who Jesus is referring to. And I said that and I actually had never read before I tweeted that about Jack Phillips. I never read Denny Burke's article on this and I'll link it in the description, but Denny Burke made that exact argument several years ago, not only just about the least of these

Starting point is 00:44:41 interpretation, which I'll get into, but that Jack Phillips is actually a better example of that. And so he was way ahead of me on that. But here's how he argues it in his article. He says, Matthew 2540 is not talking generically about our obligation to care for the poor and needy. We know this because the terms least of these in my brothers appear elsewhere in Matthew's gospel. And in each case, the term specifically referred to Jesus' disciples who have been sent out into the world to preach the gospel. For example, do you remember what Jesus said when his mother and brothers came to visit him? Who is my mother and who are my brothers? And stretching out his hand towards his disciples, he said, behold, my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will

Starting point is 00:45:20 of my father who is in heaven, he is my brother and sister and mother. There's a lot that we could unpack there, but we'll keep going. In this text, brothers is not a generic description of people created in the image of God. Jesus reserves the term. brothers for those who are his disciples, those who believe and obey his word. And what are these brothers doing? They're preaching Jesus's message. In Matthew 107, Jesus sends his disciples out to preach the gospel of the kingdom of heaven. They are supposed to preach from house to house. They are supposed to give a greeting of peace to anyone who receives them. People who, when people receive Jesus' messengers, it's a sign that they're receiving Jesus' message. He who receives,

Starting point is 00:46:04 you receives me Jesus says and he who receives me receives him who sent me and whoever in the name of a disciple gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water to drink so truly I say to you he shall not lose his reward this is the same phrase as the least of these and so when Jesus is talking in Matthew 25 when he says the least of these my brothers he is actually talking about Christians his followers who are suffering. Now Christians are to care for the poor. The Bible does give us direction on that. But here's where the left really gets it wrong.

Starting point is 00:46:47 And this is another example of toxic empathy. Though we are supposed to care for the poor, that's Galatians 210, we are not supposed to outsource our compassion to the government. So voting Democrat in the name of helping the poor is not altruistic. You will literally go to jail if you don't pay taxes. That's not a cheerful giver. We are called to give not under compulsion, but through a generous and happy heart that's 2 Corinthians 9-7. That doesn't mean we don't pay taxes. That doesn't mean that you can't vote for someone who vows to channel our taxes towards something that you believe in. There is a role of the

Starting point is 00:47:28 government, but that doesn't get to count as your charity. That doesn't get to count as your charity. That doesn't get to count as your compassion. That doesn't count as you serving the poor. The early church is not a picture of communism because communism is forced. It is forcing you to give up your stuff or else you die. The early church gave each other what they needed out of generosity and a compelling of the Holy Spirit. And these are the same people, by the way, who say, oh, we need to vote Democrat to care for the least of these who say, you can't use a Bible verse to justify your vote because that's Christian nationalism. Which one is it? The truth is that Christian nationalism is a manipulation tactic to get you and you only conservative Christian to compartmentalize your faith before you vote.

Starting point is 00:48:16 Everyone has a worldview. A worldview by definition is all encompassing. The progressive so-called Christian, the progressive atheist, the Muslim, any kind of person is bringing the entirety of their belief system into the voting booth and that's okay may the best idea win but christians you are obligated to do that as well and some pastors really understand that and i saw two pastors over the past couple weeks give sermons that i saw circulating on instagram that were just so strong and so clear on this subject uh first i saw johnny artivannis i think that's how you pronounce his name sorry if i got that wrong from Stonebridge Bible Church. This is in Franklin, Tennessee, and he gave an awesome sermon, and I wish I could play the whole thing, but I'm just going to, I'm just going to play part of it.

Starting point is 00:49:12 And he just, he appears to be so humble and so kind, but tells it exactly like it is. Here's that one. I'm not a political commentator. I'm a preacher of the Bible, but certain things politically are more theological than they used to be. The Democratic Party, is a demonic death cult under the power and influence of Satan. To vote for the Democrats is to vote for a platform that is building their platform upon everything God hates. The mutilation of bodies, the annihilation of babies in the womb, and the sexualization of your children.

Starting point is 00:49:48 That is their calling card. That is what they want to do. They don't hide that. They have abortion facilities outside of the Democratic Convention. This is who they are. It's the most radical party in our country's history. So I don't see how you could be a Christian and vote for a party who promotes everything that God hates. I love it, Pastor Johnny.

Starting point is 00:50:09 I thought that that was so good. He said this, and I thought that this was a very great point, a good way to say it. He said, you have a responsibility as a Christian to vote for the option that best stems the tide of evil. Both candidates are broken people, but one of them presents a far best. better option of the preservation of life and the upholding of the family than the other. A failure to vote is a failure to obey the calling we have to uphold righteousness in our land. That is awesome. We are going to have Pastor Johnny on as soon as we can. I will just give a shout out to his book because I don't know when he's going to be able to come on, but I do

Starting point is 00:50:49 know that his book came out this week. And it's called Consider the Lilies. And it's about having peace in Christ. And so go out and get that book. We can put the description in this episode. But I hope to have him on soon because I love, I love courage. And I love showcasing courage. I love sharing courage because courage is contagious. Courage begets courage. And he might not feel that he's being courageous. He might just feel that he is being faithful. And he is. And I'm thankful for that. that is a blessing to his congregation. Clarity is a blessing to the flock, is a blessing to the congregation. And I do know at least his family are in their relatable audience because I've gotten a lot of messages from all of you.

Starting point is 00:51:38 I don't know if Pastor Johnny listens to Relatable, but I do know his family does and I'm very grateful for that. And then we've got this awesome sermon from Josh Howardton. He is the pastor of Lake Point Church, which is outside of Dallas. And I watched this whole sermon, and it was so good. It was so well organized. I mean, the guy is so incredibly incisive and articulate. And he says this, it says this before I play the first clip. He said, it is not biblical for pastors to not talk about politics.

Starting point is 00:52:11 If the church won't disciple people, the world will. Hmm, so good. Okay, here's a clip of his term. Here's that too. A vote is not a valentine. In the book of 1st Samuel, the Lord said to Samuel, do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. People look at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart. Mature Christians do not vote on superficial things. They don't vote on vibes. They don't vote on looks. We shouldn't vote on, he's got the same skin color is me or she'd be the first woman president or I've always wanted an orange leader some people right now they're looking at the candidates and they're going oh I don't like their personality hey listen hey guys

Starting point is 00:52:52 personalities come and go policies last a long time that is absolutely right and that last point I thought was one of the best points that he made in the sermon and you might say well it's not just personality with Trump like its character it's all of these things but again like I would say the person of Trump will fade away. But policies last a really long time. And we're talking about very consequential policies. We're not talking about just some slight disagreements on tax policy. We're talking about whether or not you think pro-lifers should go to jail for trying to rescue babies that are being slaughtered. Like we're talking about that kind of thing. We're talking about if you believe in the existence of the Supreme Court as a check and balance on power. Do you believe

Starting point is 00:53:37 in the First Amendment? Like that's what we're talking about. out here. He makes a similar point to Pastor Johnny. He says, we are obligated to vote for the best available path forward. And we should ask this question, whose policies are most likely to slow societal decay? And he doesn't say this, but I will. It's Republicans. It's Republicans. I thought that he was also extremely clear on illegal immigration. Now, he makes his caveats, not really caveats, just explains that there are many immigrants in his church that he loves. This is not an anti-immigrant argument. This is a pro-order, pro-lawfulness, pro-peace, pro-sovereignty, pro-citizenship argument.

Starting point is 00:54:34 Here's not three. Of the illegal immigrants in the United States right now, 425,000 of them are known to have criminal records. 16,000 of them entered our nation as convicted rapists. 13,000 of them entered our nation as convicted murderers. I just have to ask this question, where was the borders are? Where was the borders are? So you need to ask yourself the question.

Starting point is 00:55:04 You do. You need to ask yourself the question, which candidate will best protect our national security? Very good, very good. He also speaks on abortion. And he's not blind to the problems with Republicans. He says Republicans now think abortion should be safe, legal, and rare, which I think is unfortunate. And he says, and Democrats think it should be celebrated. Kamala Harris will not name a single restriction for abortion.

Starting point is 00:55:32 So he says we should ask which candidate will best. limit the taking of unborn lives. Just because both sides have not good stances on abortion doesn't mean that both sides have the same stance on abortion. And let's not pretend there's no moral daylight between the two stances. And so he did a really good job. We're also going to have Pastor Josh on the podcast because again, I like to platform courage and I like to reward courage, not that my podcast is a reward, but I know that when these pastors come on, that you guys are going to share the arrows with them. Because you know they're also getting a lot of hate for this, right? Like you know the evil and the cruelty that is in their messages, the messages that

Starting point is 00:56:19 are being sent to their families, even sometimes they may get protesters. And so they need your prayer. These pastors need your prayer, not just these pastors, because these are just a few pastors, a couple pastors of the many, many, many that are being clear and courageous. They need your prayers. They need your support. They need your encouragement. They need us to share the arrows as the body of Christ to say, yes, pastor, we want that clarity and courage.

Starting point is 00:56:42 Thank you so much because pastors are people. And I'm not saying that all pastors are people pleasers. Of course, they're supposed to be pleasing God, but all of us benefit from being edified and encouraged. So when your pastor says something that is clear and bold, make sure. that they know that you notice it, that you appreciate it. All right, we've just got one more quick thing to talk about, but let me tell you about our last sponsor for the day.

Starting point is 00:57:07 It's America's Christian Credit Union. This is a financial institution that was founded by pastors for the benefit of its members, a financial institution that actually agrees with us that aligns with our values. It's a very precarious situation when more institutions that used to be neutral are now political and not on the same side that we are. And so you worry about the company that is like handling your earthly treasure being against everything you believe in and possibly punishing you or no longer doing business with you because of the values you hold dear. You don't want to have to worry about that. So switch to America's Christian Credit Union.

Starting point is 00:57:47 They have 5,000 shared branches, 30,000 ATMs nationwide. Right now you can earn $400 when you open a new checking account with qualifying activities. plus my listeners get an additional $100 bonus with the code Allie a checkout. Go to America's ChristianCCU.com slash alley. America's Christian Credit Union is federally insured by the NCUA. All right. I saw this crazy study from Barna. I love Barna and Dr. George Barna.

Starting point is 00:58:19 He's been on the show before, but he has a team at the Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University. And they just released his study on October 10th showing that as many as a hundred and four million people of faith, including 32 million self-identified Christians who regularly attend church. So we're not even just talking about the nominal Christians who maybe like they grew up in the church, but they're not affiliated anymore. We're talking about Christians who regularly go to church are unlikely to vote in the upcoming 2024 presidential election mainly due to lack of interest. Here are some takeaways by the president of Arizona Christian University. One, Christians could be the deciding factor in a bunch of federal and state races and are choosing not to be.

Starting point is 00:59:06 Two, they are longing for their local church to instruct them on how to think biblically about policy and politics. Researchers found that voter enthusiasm in 2024 is significantly lower than what it was in 2020. The research asked people who indicated they were not likely to vote to explain the reasons for that choice. The most common reason offered by 68% was a lack of interest in politics and elections. Over 57% of the respondents in the study said they dislike all the major candidates, while 55% felt none of the candidates reflect their most important views. Researchers believe that if the findings hold true up to Election Day, former President Donald Trump's re-election is less likely.

Starting point is 00:59:53 And Democratic presidential nominee and Vice President Kamala Harris is, campaign is more likely to come away victorious, which I'm sorry, but Satan is happy about that. Okay. Conloni Harris' policies are evil. They will enable and exacerbate evil at a far greater rate than Donald Trump's will. Satan loves unmitigated abortion. He loves rewarding the most evil actors in the world, the terroristic regimes that the Harris Biden administration has helped.

Starting point is 01:00:27 fund and empower during its tenure. He loves the chaos and the trafficking that goes on because of open border policies. He loves the lawlessness that is allowed by the progressive prosecutors and judges and the policies that are pushed by the Democrat Party. He loves the open drug use, the incentivized homelessness and mass poverty. He loves the lack of safety and security because he is an author of chaos and anarchy and moral degeneracy. And he loves child sacrifice and gender confusion. All of these things he has been using since the beginning to come after the Amago Day.

Starting point is 01:01:16 And so, of course, he loves the candidates whose policies will best represent. that. Don't sit out, Christian. Don't sit out. Your lack of interest is not a good justification for a lack of stewardship, of the citizenship that God has providentially given you. What do we always say? Take this to the bank. Politics matter because policy matters because people matter. Politics affects policy. Policy affects people. People matter to God, so they should matter to us. One way to love your neighbor. It's not the only way. It might not even be the primary way, but one important way to love your neighbor is to vote, is to advocate for policies that will best encourage their flourishing, their safety, and their protection that will best align with

Starting point is 01:02:13 God's created order will best align with Genesis 1.27. At the very least, vote against Kamala Harris. If you got to hold your nose to vote Donald Trump, do it. The future of the country that God has providentially placed you in depends on that. All right. Go out and get my book, Toxic Empathy. It's out tomorrow. We'll be talking a lot about it this week. I'm super excited about it. If you feel like, wow, I don't really know what's going on politics and culture right now. I don't have the arguments. I don't feel confident to defend my position. I start tripping over my words and I'm not able to come up with the facts and the arguments that I want to when I'm in conversations with friends. You need this book. It's specifically for the Christian woman, but it's really for anyone.

Starting point is 01:02:59 Toxic Empathy. You can go to Toxic Empathy.com, but we will link the Amazon link. You can get it easily there. Really encourage you to get this before the election. All right. We'll be back here tomorrow.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1082 | Pastors Invoke Toxic Empathy to Endorse Harris

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