Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1088 | 'Demonic Death Cult': Viral Pastor Speaks Truth About Democrats | Guest: Jonny Ardavanis

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

Today, we sit down with Jonny Ardavanis, lead pastor at Stonebridge Bible Church, to talk about his recent sermon where he called the Democratic Party a "demonic death cult" and how Christians need to vote for the party that aligns more with biblical principles and God's will for mankind. And is single-issue voting actually a good thing? We also discuss how Christians ought to respond to anxiety about the future and touch on why God allows suffering in our lives. Jonny powerfully shares the gospel with us and shares what he believes is God's plan for good in our lives. Buy Allie's new book, "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": https://a.co/d/4COtBxy ---   Timecodes: (01:38) Jonny Ardavanis intro (12:52) Voting for Trump (16:37) Single issue voting (23:05) Stemming the tide of evil (30:57) Anxiety about the future (42:40) God’s sovereignty in suffering (51:27) Praying against anxiety (55:19) What is the Gospel? ---   Today's Sponsors: A’del — Try A'del's hand-crafted, artisan, small-batch cosmetics and use promo code ALLIE 25% off your first time purchase at AdelNaturalCosmetics.com Carly Jean Los Angeles — Go to https://www.carlyjeanlosangeles.com and use code ALLIEB to get 20% off your next CJLA order (one-time use only) and start filling your closet with timeless staple pieces. Good Ranchers — get a bonus $25 off with code ALLIE! Go to GoodRanchers.com/ALLIE to get the Allie Box. Covenant Eyes — You can join a safe, confidential community of women where your story and struggle matter. Get the free resource by visiting the QR code on screen: http://ariseforwomen.com/. --- Links: "Consider the Lilies: Finding Perfect Peace in the Character of God" by Jonny Ardavanis https://a.co/d/ips56Ul ---   Relevant Episodes: Ep 1082 | Pastors Invoke Toxic Empathy to Endorse Harris https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1082-pastors-invoke-toxic-empathy-to-endorse-harris/id1359249098?i=1000673068401 Ep 1086 | To Your Christian Friends Who Won’t Vote | Guest: Dr. Albert Mohler https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1086-to-your-christian-friends-who-wont-vote-guest/id1359249098?i=1000673890766 ---   Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Pastor Johnny Ardavanais went viral last week for his comments in a sermon about the Democrat Party. Here it is. Sot 1. I'm not a political commentator. I'm a preacher of the Bible, but certain things politically are more theological than they used to be. The Democratic Party is a demonic death cult under the power and influence of Satan. To vote for the Democrats is to vote for a platform that is building their platform upon everything God hate. the mutilation of bodies, the annihilation of babies in the womb and the sexualization of your children,

that is their calling card. That is what they want to do. They don't hide that. They have abortion facilities outside of the Democratic Convention. This is who they are. It's the most radical party in our country's history. So I don't see how you could be a Christian and vote for a party who promotes everything that God hates. Pastor Johnny is here with us today to to help us think through this election. Why do we need to vote as Christians and who should we vote for? Also, we are going to discuss his incredible book, Consider the Lilies, Finding Perfect Peace in the Character of God.

You're going to be so edified by this conversation. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Go to Ranchers.com, code alley, and check out. That's goodranchors.com, code alley. Johnny, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Ali, thanks so much for having me on. I'm grateful to be here. Yeah, so people have already seen your clip.

We played it last week and at the beginning of this episode. But could you just tell everyone for context who you are and what you do? Yeah, my name is Johnny Artivannis. I have a wife, Katie, two girls, Lily Jean, Scotty Joan, one more baby girl on the way. I'm the lead pastor of Stonebridge Bible Church in Franklin, Tennessee. been there for about a year and a half, really grateful for the people that God has entrusted me to help shepherd along with the team of elders I serve with, do some resources online, and really grateful to ultimately just be a Christian and thankful to serve. Yeah. Tell me how you

become a pastor. You know, I thought being a pastor was the last thing on earth I'd ever, ever be. You know, my dad was a pastor, so growing up, I wanted to be anything but that. But ultimately, working at a student ministry camp in central California ministering with students. I studied accounting and finance because I thought I wanted to be maybe one day I would serve on the side and things like that, but I ended up, long story short, I got involved in juvenile hall ministry, started preaching in juvenile hall because that was the only way they would let me in. Yeah. Because there was a student there I wanted to go see and they would only let you in as a chaplain. And kind of from there, I got connected with this camp called Hume Lake, and I was there for five years. And over time, after being in this

evangelistic setting for so many years, I had a hunger and a burden to be in a discipleship context. And it was at that point, it got connected, reconnected with John MacArthur, and went to work as the dean of student life at the Masters University. And then he allowed me to go back up to Hume Lake in the summers and said, hey, I want you to still have that connection with the evangelistic entity. So went to Masters. And after a few years, at Masters and still my involvement in Hume Lake, I was like, man, I have a burden for evangelism and discipleship. And I think just in God's Providence, the only place in the world where you can focus on both of those things in a God-given fashion is the local church. And so I think the Lord

just kind of, that's the burden he's put on my heart specifically. And I had started preaching at this church in Tennessee while I was working at Masters just as kind of a guest. And over time, they had started really kind of around COVID and. That's an interesting time to become a pastor. I know. Well, that's when they started and they had no pastor really on staff. It was just a gathering of people. And I was, they had a guy that was teaching kind of, you know, predominantly.

But then I became their first full-time pastor about a year and a half ago. And it's been really cool to see how the Lord has blessed our church and kind of a growing team, which has been really sweet. And we've loved the area. and they've been really kind to us. This is an interesting time to navigate as a pastor. And maybe all eras are interesting times to navigate. But certainly, as you have argued, our politics are becoming more theological.

And so pastors now have this responsibility to speak up about these issues that are considered culture war issues, but are really creation issues for the Christian. You kind of went viral a couple weeks ago for the comments that you made in your sermon about the Democrat Party. What has that been like? You know, I think you mentioned it. It's a theological issue and not a political one. I grew up, I would say, with godly men in my life, I'm the product of many godly men that still speak into my life. I would say it's kind of been perceived as something you stay out of, you know.

But these are not political ideas. And I think, you know, I was listening to your book on the way here. You talk about even 25 years ago, you have Clinton signing the Defense of Marriage Act. You have rare and when necessary abortions. And so even those types of realities 25 years ago, I mean, when you're looking at political parties, you're talking about economic plans and things like that. It's not the aggressive and relentless shoving in your face of things that Jesus came to die for. And obviously, when I'm talking to my church, I would say that differently than if I was talking to and have talked to 15-year-old girls that have had three abortions, the tone of that would be different. And so I think, and I can, we can talk about that more, but ultimately I was burdened and people in my church were looking for legitimate answers, you know, and so I want to be able to navigate that with them from a biblical worldview. And Peter says that God has given us his word and given us everything we need pertaining to a life of godliness. And so there's really, it wasn't really difficult. And I said that in the clip, like, hey, this isn't hard for me to say because I was so surprised that people wanted to hear me say anything on it. And obviously, the virality of the clip was shocking to me because I had no idea just calling a spade a spade from a scripture was like so bold.

You know, people said, well, thank you for your boldness. I had no idea I'm being bold where the scripture is clear. And so obviously when you're you're preaching against, you know, the context of our cultural moment, most of the compromise is obviously within the church because we're either ambiguous about these things or silent about these things. And so, yeah, I just mentioned what the Bible says just briefly. It was like a five-minute clip in a sermon I was preaching in John chapter seven or John six. And that's typically what I do. I'm going verse by verse through the Gospel of John. I'm 10 months in and I'm through Chapter 7. So it'll take me three years. But there's different moments within the Gospel of John

that I try to punctuate what's happening in the culture. But yeah, if you were, just to get to your question, what's it been like? I would say it's been surprising and saddening and burdening because now there's a weight of responsibility and a desire to provide clarity where there's confusion and to live with conviction where there's cowardice. And I don't really see any need to equivocate

where the Bible is crystal clear. You responded to a post that we've talked about to by Ray Ortland, who said, never Trump, this time here is always Jesus. I don't know how common of a stance this is among Christians, but Ray Ortland, from what I understand, is not fully progressive. He probably aligns with us on a variety of theological issues. And yet, this is a position that I see at least some evangelicals. hold. Yeah. Voting for Kamala Harris because Trump is just so uniquely bad. How do we think about that? Well, I think you have to look at things from, you have to gather some perspective. My friend Harry always says that the only gift you can't give yourself is perspective,

meaning you have to kind of zoom out from the way that you're initially perceiving things, and you have to look at things through the eyes and lenses of scripture. So he's saying that to your point because he doesn't like Trump. And to be honest, I think that there's probably certain things you could hone in about his life, and you've touched on this, I believe, just to go like, yeah, I'm not saying he's my best friend, nor do I want him to be my pastor. I might not, I'm not flying banners off my truck necessarily. You don't have to be that type of an individual, but you have to look at the policies in a way that supersedes the personalities. And you also have to understand that the president is ultimately the leading figure of a coalition of 5,000 people that they'll

elect into governmental positions. And so I don't know how you arrive at that position, honestly, when you're thinking with the mind of Christ. You know, you mentioned, hey, I don't know if Ray is totally progressive. And I left his name out of it. I'm glad I did to a degree. But I don't know how you arrive there when you just look at the full-term abortions, the onslaught of sexuality, the absolute dismantling of the nuclear family, marriage. You have to, if it's me, you really have to choose to push past your conscience to be able to say, hey, I'm voting for Kamala Harris when she is totally opposed to, you put it in regards to the creation narrative.

And that's really what comes down to. She is opposed to the biblical worldview. like no one else in our country's history. And I don't even, obviously, I'm not even sure if it's just her. It's she's representing, she's the figurehead of really people that are probably even more so against the God of the Bible. And we live in a country that's reaping the worldview we've sown because the church has compromised even on that creation element. You know, there's, I think, three to five Christian colleges in America. Yeah. That's still adhere to a biblical account of creation. So sometimes we look at the news and we go, man, what happened? I'll tell you exactly what

happened. It's not just, the culture is always going to be the culture. The world is always going to be the world, but the church is compromised on the ABCs of what it means to be a Christian or to follow the Lord. And now we've kind of dislodged the fulcrum upon which every Christian's worldview should rest. And that's just what does the Bible say? And if you don't believe the first sentence of the Bible, I don't know where else you're going to start believing. So a lot of of those things are tough. So to answer your question about Ray, I don't know how we got there. But I think it is, and I said it, a foolish thing to say and mal-stewardship to say, hey, go vote for a person that is hell-bent on slaughtering babies. It's unthinkable to me, I guess, to be honest. Yeah. All right. First sponsor of the day. It's Adele Natural Cosmetics. I love this company, a family-owned company.

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Personally, he's pro-LGBQ. He's made that very clear. And so I have heard, and this is not the position that I take and I've articulated my. own position several times and I've already voted for Trump. But I understand where some of my sincere godly friends are coming from when they say, look, if I vote for him, this is just rewarding that compromise. And if the Republican Party realizes that they can take God and marriage out of their platform, they can present someone who is functionally socially liberal, and we keep voting for them, then they have no incentive to ever change. They have no incentive to listen to

as evangelicals. What would your response be to something like that? You know, I would say, first of all, I would, I think from a political perspective, you would be far more informed than I would be. I'm a common sense Christian that looks at the news, reads articles, listens to the briefing, you know? I would say, first of all, Trump has already displayed as malleability. He's moved stances. He already elected two Supreme Court justices or put. them in positions to be able to overturn Roe v. Wade. We think he is compromised on the abortion. So I would say, well, yes, he is compromised. But then I would say, hey, if you ever watch a Democratic commercial, I watch them while I watched the NFL on Sunday, what they're touting about Trump is his

strict radical position on abortion. He's going to take away your reproductive freedom, your rights. He's going to, you know, he's not going to be, you're not going to be able to have an abortion. So we think he's compromised, which he is. But they're. saying his position is so radical that that's the reason they have to keep him out of office. So then I would say, yeah, he's not a pastor and I referenced that to my church, just saying, hey, this man is a sinner. They're both broken people, but to vote for someone, I referenced it, is the Latin word of vote him, which means to make a choice. You have two options. And I am totally okay with saying I am punching a ticket against Kamala Harris.

by voting for Trump because I'm going to do everything I can do to get Kamala or keep Kamala out of office even the language of to make a decision decedre in Latin means to cut off I want to cut off off the option of Kamala Harris I'm not even sure if I can say her name I am saying her wrong by voting for Trump she doesn't know either she changed it like five times she does I know I know someone to correct that's the one of the largest points of feedback as I say her name wrong oh I didn't I didn't notice that at all. I thought you said it right. So it's fine by me. The, um, so I would, I think as in regards to compromise, you know, I, I wouldn't encourage someone to violate their conscience, but I as a pastor want to inform their conscience through the lens of scripture saying,

hey, we're choosing between two ungodly people, um, but I've seen Trump's responsiveness to different Christians. Um, and we may not know what Trump will do. when he's in office. Yeah. I know exactly what Kamala Harris is going to do. Yeah. She's going to murder the babies. And just real quick on the abortion thing, because people, this was a huge thing in the last

couple weeks. People say, so are you a single issue voter? Well, first of all, no, I'm not a single issue voter necessarily. I'm an Imago Day voter, which means and includes morality, sexuality, authority of scripture, truth, destiny, origin. All of those things are wrapped up into what we see and the product of that is abortion.

But if I had to make a stance on a single issue, I'm totally fine saying the murder of babies is the one. So even amongst Christians saying, oh, you're just a single issue voter. I'm just like, well, I think that's a pretty important issue because it's revelatory of a worldview.

Yeah. And there's nothing else like it. I hear a lot of people saying, well, I'm holistically pro-life or I'm pro-life womb to tomb, which I think really dilutes what the anti-abortion position is. It's like suddenly our immigration policy is just as important as whether a baby has a right to not be murdered, which of course is not the same thing. And by the way, because I hear that a lot too, single issue. And I'm like, well, abortion is the single issue for Democrats.

It's there. They are single-issue voters. There's actually when I see people like Steph Curry or other people who say that they are going to vote for Kamala Harris and the reason they give every single person, whether it's Taylor Swift or Ben Stiller or whoever it is, every single person has said reproductive rights, women's health care, which are euphemisms for abortion. So if it's their number one issue, the pagans, why can't it be our number one issue in the other direction? Yeah. And we just, I think as Christians, we do have a. responsibility to uphold the righteousness in the land and to prevent you know Jesus says you're the salt of the earth not you can be or should be you are and one of the main things that salt does is prevent

corruption and one of the chief hallmarks of the corruption in our culture is that even many within the church have been lulled and doled into the acceptability of abortion just as yeah it yeah we're not for it. And I think the more that I kind of think and pray through it, God loves babies. And so obviously I want my tone as a pastor to reflect a staunch conviction. And that's where even when I said, and I think necessarily to circle back to say, if I'm talking with a 15 year old that's debating, having one, I'm saying, listen, God loves your baby. He says in Ezekiel, that baby belongs to me. It says in Psalm 1174, that God forms and fashions us in the womb. Psalm 139 is. well. So it is a sad and tragic indictment on our world and in our culture. 200,000 babies aborted

every single day. Yeah, it is. Why not Jesus 2024? Why not we're the party of the lamb and that's it and Jesus is coming back. So who cares? You know, Jesus has ultimate authority. That's what he says. Matthew 28, all authority in heaven on earth has been given to me, but he delegates his authority to individuals. And we can talk about this. us more as the conversation progresses, I am totally believe that God is sovereign, which means that he rules and he reigns. He is the supreme authority in the universe, Psalm 93, our God reigns, Psalm 97, verse 1, our God reigns, Psalm 99, God reigns. But I think sometimes on a quest to elevate God's sovereignty, we can limit our responsibility and the privilege that we have, you know.

That would be like Esther saying, okay, Hasu Eris is going to murder the Jews in 127 provinces let's just entrust herself to the sovereignty of Yahweh. That's not the way the book goes. There's not even the mention of God in the book of Esther, but you have Mordecai pleading with Esther to say, hey, go talk to him. And there's a level of responsibility. She says, if I perish, I perish,

and we all know the line and we like the story. But there is a passivity that I think Christians think is godly, but there's nothing godly about being passive, especially when morality is in play. I think, too, there's a misunderstanding of precedent. Sometimes we get this idea that this is what Christians have done for thousands of years. But if you look at Zwingli, if you look at Calvin,

if you look at Jonathan Edwards, his ministry to get the Native Americans' blankets. I'm picking three big reformed figures saying that there was always this push to be able to care for other people and to address moral issues. And that's the responsibility of the church. So I would disagree with the Jesus 2024 thing. And I think in my clip I mentioned, hey, listen, yeah, he is already king.

But we have the freedom also to be able to try to sway things in a way that we would continue to have those liberties. And I said in the clip that the establishment of the church, Jesus is building his church, the gates of how it will not prevail. We're not on defense. We're on offense. The continuation of the church is not going to be deterred by a political party. With that being said, there's a massive difference in the church in North and South Korea. And Christians in America, we give $400 billion away to charity every year because we experience those religious freedoms.

So I trust that Jesus is going to continue to build this church. But I'm also thankful and try to and want to recognize that part of the reason why God has used the church in America is because of the freedoms we have. And so I don't want to lose those because the Lord has used them. Yeah. And we see that the government is instituted by God to reward good and punish evil. When I look at Kamala Harris, I see that throughout her career, she has punished good and rewarded evil. I mean, the Harris Biden administration has put pro-lifers, peaceful pro-life protesters in federal prison, a 74-year-old for three years because of her peaceful demonstration in front of an abortion clinic, even while rewarding Planned Parenthood. And I look at Donald Trump, and I think, well, Donald Trump's probably going to pardon those people.

And so that's rewarding good and hopefully punishing evil by defunding Planned Planned Parenthood. So even just looking at the basic function of the government, Donald Trump seems to be more. of the candidate of order than Kamala Harris. And I love how you put it in your, you just in that clip, you said, we have a responsibility to help stem the tide of evil. Can you talk about that a little bit more? Yeah, and I think part of it is just going along with what I said

regarding salt being a preservative, a preventer of corruption. It's also a purifier because it is disseminated into the pollutants. And so when I say stem the tide of evil, we are called as Christians to shine bright in a world of darkness. That's even what salvation is. That's First Peter that God has called us out of darkness and do us marvelous light so that we can declare that light to the lost world around us.

With that being said, even going along with what you said mentioning Romans 13, that's the function of the government is to punish evildoers and protect those who do good. That's the very basic function of government. And when government does the antithesis of that, we need to address that because that's part of our responsibilities as citizens so um i yeah just in regards to stemming the tide of evil even for non-believers um we have a responsibility not just to share

christ but for the morality and the authority of scripture to reign in our world and in our culture that doesn't mean we're you know extreme christian nationalists and you address even the the euphemisms people use. No, we want to usher in a world that closely resembles the worldview of scripture. And I think that's why for the last 250 years, God has blessed our country to be the greatest civilization in human history because we adhered in a way close to that. Yeah, because we love our neighbor.

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I've seen this perspective a lot. This is from a writer at the Gospel Coalition. And he posted, it's okay if you're a Christian and you vote for Trump. it's okay if you're a Christian and you don't vote for Trump. It's okay if you're a Christian and you vote for Harris. It's okay if you're a Christian and you don't vote for Harris. It's okay if you vote for neither. And this is kind of where I see a lot of pastors leave it.

And they feel like this is giving clarity to their congregation that basically we're above politics. We transcend politics. And therefore, whatever you choose is fine. I see this is confusion. I see their congregants looking to podcasts and TikTok and Instagram to tell them, okay, but what am I supposed to think, which I'm just not sure is a healthy place for them to be? Perpetual obscurity is never clarity.

So that's even why. And you know, I mentioned that there were pitfalls on either side for sure. But I did say one on the left is the Grand Canyon, meaning like, yeah, if you want to be perceived as balanced, and more and more, honestly, Ali, I just hate the word balanced because it feels like you're trying to show that you kind of get, you know, I understand that there are pitfalls here. So you never really make an argument. Part of what a pastor does, you know, I remember my dad telling me when I was 12, Johnny, what's the goal of preaching?

One word. Persuasion. You're making an argument. You're proving something from the text. And obviously, when the text of scripture intersects with the political and moral world, I'm not trying to make suggestions. I'm trying to make an argument. And I think typically in the past, it has been acceptable to be able to say, hey, I want you to think through this with discernment. You're called Matthew 10 to be shrew to serpents, innocent as doves, First Chronicles 12, the sons of Issaqar,

were people that understood the times. And so there was hopefully an informed worldview where you could assume that people were making educated decisions. But yeah, and I've seen recently other pastors that have said, know this party's bad but this party you know the republicans are just as bad um not at all not at all so in response to the the gospel coalition writer i don't know them individually or personally i would just say that's no if you're a christian and if you're at my church i would plead and persuade you i would not just say i want to do that i would say no no it's a sin to vote for sin and obviously

then the rebuttal be like, what about Trump or whatever? I would just say, well, no, that's a less aggressive stance on what the left or radical secularism wants to do in dismantling the nuclear family, demolishing the authority of scripture. And so, yeah, I wouldn't subscribe to that mentality. You mentioned it that it's confusing, but it's not just confusing. I think it's cowardice because you can't really. the scripture and come to the conclusion. I mean, I would have a hard time. I think even you mentioned Ray, I think Ray or Linda and I are going to be in glory together. I don't know his heart, you know,

but I have a hard time with what he said. And it was for me confusing why no one else was saying anything about it. So I think, no, I would not subscribe to that. You need to be. You need be clear for God's people. That's part of what a pastor does. And I wanted to at least try to do that as best I can. Yeah. Clarity is a gift. I think some people confuse moral of relativism and impartiality. They think they're being impartial, which of course God calls us to do, but really they're just being confusing or as you said cowardly. And I think it's different too because I've heard different older men that I really respect say I've never endorsed a political candidate. And I would say what I did wasn't even, I wasn't making an endorsement.

Yeah. Trump's the man. Yeah. I was saying Kamala Harris is evil. And so you have to try to keep her out of office, which is different than me saying, putting my arm around Trump's shoulder and saying, vote, vote, vote, you know, fist bumping him and taking photos, which I think he's a funny guy, but compromising those different things.

So that would be different in my mind than making an endorsement of this individual. I've seen his character. I know how he leads his family. He loves the Lord, which I'm not doing. Right. There's a lot of anxiety about the future. Obviously, there always has been because we see Jesus' refrain. Do not worry.

Do not be anxious. But today, I think all of us are worried, no matter who wins, what kind of country will have for our kids and for our grandkids. Will they have the same protections and freedoms? that we have and a lot of people are dealing with fear and you've written a book about anxiety called Consider the Lilies. Tell me before we talk about what's in it, what inspired you to write it. Yeah, no, I was really thankful for the opportunity to write. The inspiration behind writing was when I was working at that student camp, you know, there are a thousand new high school students that would

come every week. They would leave on Saturday and then on Sunday another thousand would get bust in and And within like three weeks of working there, I became accustomed to terms like panic attack, anxiety attack, self-harm, depression. When was this? What years? 2016, 17 through 22 really was my involvement there. And I still go up there to preach in the summers. And so that was just a unique world for me to navigate and was talking with 15-year-olds that were anxious. that could have been over AP US history or it could have been, I've had three abortions,

well, God ever forgive me. Massive spectrum. And then I found that the counselors and pastors that came alongside those students, if they weren't struggling with anxiety themselves, were at least wondering how to minister to those that were assigned to their care. And I started doing an optional seminar in the afternoons

entitled, what does the Bible say about my anxiety? Was Jesus say about my anxiety? And it was during free time activities, like paddleboarding and, you know, volleyball and flirting or whatever it may have been. But the students were coming really the large percentage of them because they were so crippled by it. You know, at night, at camp, we have to distribute the meds for students. And just over the last few years that I was there, that amount of medications that was being dispensed just for the students that were anxious grew exponentially.

Then I went from, you know, you could say, okay, those are students. not all of them came from solid home. Some of them just were coming to Christian camp for the week because that was their opportunity to get away. Then I went from there to a Christian university where students attended Bible classes, Bible chapels, and went to Bible churches. And the issue was still prevalent.

And I just began to really think through, like, how does God respond to the anxious? And I wanted to encourage them. And then obviously now I'm a lead pastor of a church and the composition of struggles. There's a level of variance there. But whether someone is 16 or 73, there is that looming element of anxiety. And you see so many responses to our anxiety in the scripture that it's not a new issue.

Obviously Solomon says that there's nothing new under the sun. So this has plagued the people of God for years and years and years. And there are other good resources that I have read, but not one with the predominant thesis that I wanted to pursue. And we can talk more about that. But that was at least the heart behind it. Yeah. Tell me about that thesis. Yeah, so in regards to just mainly what the book is about, I just begin to trace.

How does God respond to the anxious in his word? And I think it's probably worth mentioning that sometimes people feel condemned just for feeling anxious, but you have all these different figures in God's word like David, who is a warrior and the man after God's own heart. At one point, he's going to pray in the Psalms. Every single nine I make my bed swim with tears. You have Moses, who is the leader of two million people, the giver of the law. and he says, I don't want to go to Pharaoh.

I don't talk good. He says stutter, right? And I send someone else. And then you have Elijah, who's the prophet of faithfulness. He's going to stand shoulder to shoulder with Jesus Christ and Moses on the Mount of Transfiguration. And at one point after he defeats 850 false prophets, slaughters them, he's going to crawl into a cave and ask God to take his life. Then you have Job, who is the most blameless man on earth. At one point he's saying every single night, my life is tuned to the sound of mourning.

And I mentioned those figures just to show you that those are four of the godliest characters in the Old Testament. And they deeply struggled with anxiety and despair. But the way that God responds to them is not by telling them, let me tell you why this is happening. But by telling and responding them, let me tell you who I am. And when God responds to Job, he doesn't say, okay, Job, let me tell you about the the conversation that I had with Satan, and here's why the Sabians and Chaldeans and wind and fire attacked everything you had. He says, Job gird your loins. I'm going to give you an understanding

of my character. And for four chapters, God goes on and reveals his character. And at the end of the book, Job says, my ears have always heard, but now my eye see. And when God responds to Elijah, it's the same thing. Gives him a nap and a snack and then he proclaims his character. When David says, why are you downcast on my soul? God proclaims his character. And when Moses says, I can't talk well, send someone else, God responds to Moses and says, who made man's mouth and proclaims his character. And I mentioned those Old Testament examples. And sometimes people would say, well, how does Jesus respond in the new? And I would just say, well, based on the reality that God never changes, neither does it the prescription he provides as the great physician. And so when Jesus is on the

Mount, the sermon, giving the sermon on the Mount, you have people that are anxious. You know, and I think sometimes, Ali, we think, oh, their struggles were so different than our own. know our struggles today, our anxieties today. But we have to remember that the Jewish people that Jesus was addressing were under the ruthless regime of Rome. They used to crucify men, women, and children for 40 miles leading to a city that said, basically, don't mess with Rome. It was literally the Roman tetrarch Herod who chopped off the head of John the Baptist.

And, you know, the relative that killed all the babies in Luke and Matthew. So it was an oppressive regime. and Jesus says to them, you know, don't be anxious, you know, about what you're going to eat, what you're going to drink, what you're going to wear for clothing. And he doesn't stop there. And I think sometimes that's an important reminder that he doesn't just provide a prohibition. He provides the pathway forward. And then he gets them to think.

And he says, hey, look at those lilies over there. And obviously the name of my book is considered the lilies because that's the way Jesus beckons his anxious followers to think. because psychologists think that anxiety is the product of thinking too much. Jesus says anxiety is the fruit of thinking too little about the character of God. And so he just says, hey, I want you to consider the lilies over there. They neither toil nor spin, yet not Solomon. And all of his glory was provided for like one of them. Look at the birds over there.

Do the birds elect captains of food acquisition? Do they have chief supply chain officers? No, two of them are sold for a single cent. It says in Matthew 11. But God takes care of them. And Jesus argues from the lesser than to the greater than and says, hey, if I care for the larks and I care for the lilies, how much more am I going to provide for those who are made in my image and who have been blood bought by my son? And so he gets us to look to the character of God. And I think sometimes we pray, God, take away my anxiety, but our life has a very shallow rooting in the depth of God's character.

And when God is responding to all these individuals in his word, he wants them to know something. he wants him to know something deeper about who he is. And obviously the size of our faith is always in proportion to the size of our God in our mind. And so that's the focal point of the book is on the attributes of God that buoy, the anxious, provide us with comfort, provide us with encouragement. And I think, Ali, sometimes we look at the attributes of God, which would be his love, his wisdom, his sovereignty, which means he's in control, the fact that he's omniscient, which means he's all knowing the fact that he hears our prayer sometimes we look at those attributes like pieces of the

pie that is god so we think he's 50% love 10% sovereign but god is all of his attributes all of the time in full measure so let's pretend you're going through something difficult i remember when my friend's mom died in college i watched the guy come up and slap him on the back and say hey god's sovereign brother you can trust him which would be true but god's sovereignty can never be divorced from his love nor his wisdom. And so all of these attributes have to be looked at comprehensively because God's not just the king of the universe. He's also a loving father. But if we view him only as a loving father and divorce that from the reality that he is the king who is established to stone in the heavens, then his love as a father is just sentimentality and it lacks the power that we need

to know Ecclesiases 9. My entire life is in the palm of his hands. And so I think we have a deficient view of God because we have a deficient at times commitment to his word. And, you know, there's so many different, obviously just a big piece of my heart, but the prohibition even in Philippians 4-6, be anxious for nothing. But by prayer and supplication with Thanksgiving, let your request be made known to God. And then it says, the peace of God will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. But he doesn't stop there. Paul then goes, therefore, brother, whatever is pure, noble, excellent, lovely, dwell on these things. And there's, and there's, and there's There's no more noble subject, no more lovely subject than the character of the God we call

Father. And so that's why the subtitle is finding perfect peace in the character of God. But peace isn't so much something we find. It's something we receive when our minds are rooted in scripture and in God's character. Okay. I've got my own box now with good ranchers. And this is like the box for busy moms. This is the stuff. The stuff that's in my box is the stuff that is really easy to either eat just plain or to dress up and put in cassidias, make a hamburger out of it, make pasta with this meat. This is the stuff that is very basic and fundamental for really good meals that your kids will actually eat. So here's what's in my Good Rancher's box. You've got 16, 4.5 ounce plainsh.

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slash alley to check out my box and when you use my code alley you save $25 on your order. That's good ranchers.com slash alley code alley. I am a mom, also a girl, a girl parent like you are. And obviously one of my chief sources of worry is thinking about their future, their safety, their protection. I try not to be a paranoid person. And I've heard many times, which of course I know it's true that God loves my kids more than my husband and I even do. But I also know that really bad. terrible, awful things happen to people that I would never allow to happen to my kids if I had the power to stop it. If I had the power to stop them from getting cancer or getting kidnapped or hurting themselves, I would. But God sometimes doesn't. And so how do we as parents acknowledge that God could let something really bad happen to our kids that we wouldn't and still have peace and still believe that he loves them more than we do? Yeah, it's a deep question. You know, and the longest

chapter in the book by far is on the sovereignty of God and our suffering. How do we reconcile those realities? You know, I'm a father to two girls. I would never want anything to happen to them. And I'm a child of God, and yet God allows me to suffer. There's a long answer. And then there's, I'll give you hopefully a short one. Romans 828, everybody is familiar with if you've grown up in the church, that God is working all things out for good and for his glory to those who love him and are called according to his purpose. Many people stop there and they put a period there rather than a comma. And they understand that God working everything out for our good is our material comfort,

our safety, our physical well-being. But the reason that God allows us to suffer is because suffering in the scripture in James and in 1 Peter are the very instruments that God uses to wean us from this world and to remind us that we're pilgrims. We're on our way to a better country. And so we have to remember even in our suffering, 829 of Romans says, those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed into the image of his son. So what's God's good plan for your life? I think a lot of people miss this.

God's plan for your good is your conformity to Jesus. and the only way you're going to be conformed into the image of Jesus is if you are refined in the furnace of affliction. But if that objective, you becoming like Jesus, isn't good, you're never going to be able to have joy in any sort of trial in your life. And obviously, you mentioned your kids, which is different maybe than a trial because I don't want anything to happen to them. You know, even this book was written providentially while I thought our daughter was going to die. You know, we're just kind of pacing the hospital. They told us she had a terminal disease. And obviously my suffering and our experience pales in comparison

with even some of the people that may read the book. And so I'm always careful. But the credibility of me being able to articulate the truth of God's word and suffering isn't because I suffered on your level, but because God's word is applicable to all ranges of human suffering. But why does God allow us to suffer? Why does he allow us to go through difficulty? The one answer is we don't always know.

Hindsight's not going to be. 2020. It's not, you know, sometimes people say this all makes sense in 10 years. No, it might not make sense till 10 billion years when we've been with Jesus. But on a human level and an immediate level, we know that the testing of our faith produces perseverance and that perseverance character and the character imitation of Jesus Christ. And so much could be said there. I would want to do it with a true words are not always easy to swallow. And so there would be a level of tenderness if I was sitting down with someone and I was walking them through something that they've gone through. I'd always want to make sure that they understood the full spectrum of the character of God,

that he's not capriciously pulling strings. And that's, I think, that's when we divorce God's love from his sovereignty. We just get this idea that God's in heaven saying, let's give him a dose of difficulty. Yeah. And that's not the reality at all. He weeps with those who weepy. It says in Isaiah and in the Psalms that he holds our tears in a bottle. And if you ever have a problem with the sovereignty of God and our suffering, just know that in the sovereignty of God, he caused the greatest evil to accomplish the greatest good. And that is in the death of Jesus Christ, who was not murdered against his will. He went to the cross willingly for the joy that was set before him. And so whenever we think that God's just exercising his sovereignty flippantly, we just have to know

that it was, in Galatians, it says he was killed before the foundation of the world. Because this was always God's plan. And so he sympathizes. And he, he sympathizes. And he, you mentioned this in your book, that he sympathizes with our weaknesses, but he also knows what it's like to feel pain. And so he, you know, he understands. And that's why it's a broad answer, but I would never want to not include that he's in his sovereignty, his son suffered. Yeah. I've heard some people try to square God's sovereignty with his goodness and love for us by saying that God never wants bad things for us. He never wants us to be sick.

He never wants us to go through bad things. I'm not sure exactly how they would explain it, that I guess Satan being the Prince of the Power of the Air has that power and God has allowed that. But in non-reformed circles, I hear this a lot, that basically God never wants bad things for people that's never the father's heart for his children. How would you respond to something like that?

I would say that's not true, biblically speaking, because it says in 1st Peter that we suffer according to the will of God. It says in Acts 1422 through many tribulations, we will enter the kingdom of God. Jesus tells us followers, the world is going to hate you because it hated me. So I would, and I would want to walk carefully through an individual that is saying that, but suffering is a part of the will of God for our life, especially as Christians. because if there was no suffering, there would be perpetual comfort here on earth, which would give us the illusion that this is our home. So the Westminster Confession of Faith talks about this in detail.

God's never the author of evil, but he does allow evil, but not just allow evil. He's orchestrating a perfect plan that uses evil to accomplish his good. and you mentioned Corey Tim Boom in your book, but Corey Temboom references a poem called the, I think it's the Grand Weaver, that we only see the top of the tapestry that God is weaving, whereas God sees the under. And he uses the knots and he uses the wrinkles

and he uses the dark threads to accomplish his perfect plan. So God's plan isn't just for our good in this life. It includes our suffering, and you can't get any clearer than that, than Peter's saying that we suffer according to the will of God. We're sojourners, we're exiles, we're pilgrims. And one day, he's going to wipe away every tear. But until that day, we were foreigners.

Last sponsor for the day is Covenant I. So one way that we can push back against the darkness and push back against evil is ensuring that we ourselves are walking in repentance and purity. Unfortunately, we live in a culture where pornography is ubiquitous. It is extremely accessible, even if you're not looking for it. It's on your timeline on X. It might be on your Discover page on Instagram. If you want to protect yourself, protect your kids from the predation of porn, then you need to check out Covenant Eyes. Covenant Eyes has been supplying tools and resources to people, to individuals and families who are trying to block all of their devices from. pornography. They have tools that allow for transparency, even accountability with a trusted accountability partner. If you are fighting against your own addiction to pornography, go to covenant eyes.com slash alley. You can try covenant eyes with my code alley for free for 30 days. That's covenant eyes.com slash alley code alley. How do we pray against anxiety? What does that look like?

you know i mentioned it briefly but we i would say you don't want to just pray against anxiety because obedience is not just the absence of anxiety it's the presence of peace and joy in your life because joy is not an optional extra in the christian life it's an imperative rejoice always and again i say rejoice but i would say you have to learn how to pray um scripturally what that means is I mentioned it, not just saying, God, take away my anxiety, but God help me to trust that you're in control. Help me to know that you love me. Help me, Lord, to know that you know every nook and cranny of my heart. Even one of the chapters in my book is on, I mentioned the omniscience of God. So you're praying that, Lord, would you please take the truth of your word and plant it deeply

into the soil of my heart? When David's anxious, you know, David is on the run from his father-in-law Saul for 10 years. He's living in caves. He's not always living in palaces. And he's saying, oh Lord, you search me and you know me, you know when I sit and when I rise. And he's presumably writing this when he's living in fear, running for his life. And so I just pray back the scripture to God. It's not novel concepts. It's biblical ones to say, okay, oh Lord, if you do search me and know me, help me to believe that. Help me to know that when I sit or when I rise, you're with me. You perceive my thoughts from afar. Whether I go up to the heavens, you're there. If I descend to the depths, you're there. If I rise in the wings of the dawn, you're there. Help me to believe that everywhere I go,

Lord, you're with me today. And you get to pray different scriptures in the sense of, Lord, I believe, but help my unbelief. I know that Psalm 103.19 says the Lord has established his throne in the heavens and his sovereignty rules overall. But Lord, in my own life, I believe in my sovereignty. Would you help me to know that you're in control? John 15 says to abide in my love. Lord, sometimes I theologically affirm your love, but I have not tasting and seeing that reality, Psalm 34 in my own life today. And so we pray that. And then we pray that in conjunction and in concert with the people of God because faith is a community project. I think sometimes, you know, you may pray with your husband, but praying is, you know, if you're just going to stop in the middle of a conversation with

your friend and say, can we just pray real quick and ask that God would give us a peace that surpasses all understanding because we know that he's wise and good. Just help him, ask him to through his spirit, give us the conviction. That's true. We need to pray that also together. So more could be said there. And then we have to also trust that when we pray, he hears our prayers. It's not a blind jump into the darkness. It's an intimate relationship. And intimacy with God is a prerequisite to receiving the peace that comes from God. And do people maybe feel the presence of God's peace in their life because they're strangers to intimate, deep, committed prayer?

So it's an important question. Consider the Lily's finding perfect peace in the character of God. John MacArthur says this book is exceptional in every way, which is a really good endorsement. He's a nice guy. He is. That's amazing. So they can get this wherever books are sold, correct?

Correct. And I can't think of a more timely read. I mean, also very evergreen in that every generation feels like we are dealing with worse challenges than we've ever seen. And yet, going back to the scriptures, going back to church history, seeing the plight of his people throughout history and that God's dictate was still, don't worry, don't be anxious. That alone gives us a lot of peace for today. Something that I ask some guests to do, the every now and then with the last few minutes that we have left, is just to share the gospel. So could you tell us, what is the gospel? Yeah, I'd love to.

The gospel is first and foremost starting with the reality that God is the creator of the universe. Francis Schaefer used to say that if I had 60 minutes to share the gospel, I'd spend the first 55 minutes explaining to an individual that they were made in the image of God. because if I start with sin, rather than the fact that we are created by God and for God, it's like starting a book in the middle without an understanding of the beginning. Good point. So we're made in the image of God.

The Bible records in Genesis 3 that there is a real historical fall of man where the cosmos is fractured and sin and death entered the world and now mankind is alienated from God and there needs to be an atoning, a covering, a payment for our sin. It says in Psalm 51-5,

that in sinned in my mother conceive me, which means, in contrast to what some people may think, you're not born good and then tainted by your environment. You are born sinful. Ephesians 2 says that we are born dead in our sin. We're enemies of God. We're children of wrath in the sense that you're born sinful and nothing you do could ever earn your way to God. That's one of the things the religious leaders during Jesus' day thought that by works, by their religious devotion, they were going to bridge the gap between them and a holy God. Going back just real quick to the element of God as creator, he's also holy, which means that he doesn't tolerate sin. He's not the bigger and better version of you. He's not quantitatively

different, meaning that he's just bigger. He's qualitatively different, which means he's totally other. And God's holiness means that there is total separation from us and sin. In the Old Testament, one of the things that God provided for his people was a sacrificial system where, the payment for sin would be satisfied, temporarily covered, because God is holy, he's also just. Sometimes people say you have to understand the bad news before you can understand the good news. I don't know why people say that because I don't think anybody wants a God that is indifferent towards sin, right? You don't want to, you wouldn't want to judge that said no biggie to injustice or sin. And so because God is holy, he punishes sin.

And in the Old Testament, we see kind of a foreshadowing of, what Jesus would do. The justice would be poured out on a substitute. And then the sinner could have reconciliation, a right relationship with God. All of these things in the Old Testament for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. I just imagine.

And because the Bible's a story and not just a theological check boxes, they were saying it's not finished. More sacrifices, more sacrifices, more sacrifices. But when Jesus comes under the scene, a real historical man 2,000 years ago that walked the earth. John the Baptist says, behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Because he was born of a virgin, he not only died because people say he came to die for our sin,

but he didn't drop down on a Friday, go back up on a Sunday. He not only had to die for us, he had to live for us. He had to be tempted in every way we were tempted yet without sin. And he lived a life of total sinless, blameless perfection because he satisfied God's law in all the ways that we need. never could. Then he was slaughtered on a cross. That is a historical reality. And God poured out, Isaiah 53 says, 700 years before Jesus died, poured out the full measure of his wrath towards sin. You know, God hates sin. Sin must be punished. Jesus said, I will bear it. And on the cross,

it says he was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities. And the chastisement for our peace fell upon him. But he didn't stay dead. And this is the apex. of history and the apex of the Christian doctrine is that three days later Jesus rose from the grave. That is a historical and verifiable reality that Jesus rose triumphant from the grave. And what that signifies, Ali, is so important. It means that it's the receipt given to us by God that, first of all, Jesus was God. He's not a prophet. He's not just a good man.

He's not just a moral teacher. He is God. And it says in Romans 1,4, that he was declared to be the son of God with power by the resurrection. So he's proven to be God, but not only that, it's the receipt given to us from God that on the cross, all of the punishment towards sin was satisfied in the person and work of Jesus Christ, which means that if you give your life to Him and you believe in Jesus, and that's the key, how do I receive this? How do I receive the forgiveness of sins? Well, you can't do anything. You just believe that Jesus paid it all. And that's one of the great hymns of the Christian faith.

Jesus paid it all. And our response to that is All to Him I all. Obviously, much more could be said But in short, God is a holy God and he sent his holy son to pay the penalty for our sin because you never could. He saved us from the wrath of God in eternal hell. And he rose from the grave and now what he gives us is his Holy Spirit and the peace of God. And obviously my book is about finding peace and anxious times. But no one can experience the peace of God unless they're at peace with God through faith in Jesus Christ. Amen. Thank you so much. My pleasure. Thank you for having me on.