Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1100 | Secret Senate Votes, Sophia Bush & Our Pro-Life Future | Guest: Lila Rose

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

Today, we sit down with Lila Rose, founder and president of Live Action, to discuss what the future of the pro-life movement looks like now that Trump has been elected. The pro-life side still has a lot of work to do, and we need all hands on deck to save all the babies we can. We discuss some of the state ballot measures on abortion that both passed and failed during the election and what pro-lifers can do in light of these victories and defeats alike. Also, actress Sophia Bush decided to spread disinformation about abortion, which we happily refute. We also go over the Senate's vote for John Thune, the new majority leader, and what this means for Trump's incoming administration. Buy Allie's new book, "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": https://a.co/d/4COtBxy ---   Timecodes: (00:57) Senate majority leader vote (10:57) Lila’s endorsement of Trump (14:05) Amendment 4 & Trump on abortion (22:20) Are we compromising by voting Republican?  (29:55) Miscarriage lies from the left (31:30) Losses on the state level (38:24) Sophia Bush spreads disinformation (49:15) Abortion under TX law (53:51) Future of the Pro-Life movement ---   Today's Sponsors: Carly Jean Los Angeles — Go to https://www.carlyjeanlosangeles.com and use code ALLIEB to get 20% off your next CJLA order (one-time use only) and start filling your closet with timeless staple pieces. A’del — Try A'del's hand-crafted, artisan, small-batch cosmetics and use promo code ALLIE 25% off your first time purchase at AdelNaturalCosmetics.com Seven Weeks - Experience the best coffee while supporting the pro-life movement with Seven Weeks Coffee; use code ALLIE at https://www.sevenweekscoffee.com to save up to 25% and help save lives. Good Ranchers — Go to GoodRanchers.com and use code ALLIE at checkout to claim your free Thanksgiving ham while supplies last. --- Links: Fighting for Life: Becoming a Force for Change in a Wounded World by Lila Rose https://a.co/d/aSGnz09 The Lila Rose Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-lila-rose-podcast/id1460036160 ---   Relevant Episodes: Ep 594 | The Pro-Choice Movement Takes Its Dying Breath | Guest: Lila Rose https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-594-the-pro-choice-movement-takes-its-dying-breath/id1359249098?i=1000556339615 Ep 376 | How the Equality Act Opposes Science & Faith | Guest: Lila Rose https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-376-how-the-equality-act-opposes-science-faith/id1359249098?i=1000510667413 Ep 1089 | Kamala Harris Wants Trump Dead | Guest: Glenn Beck  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1089-kamala-harris-wants-trump-dead-guest-glenn-beck/id1359249098?i=1000674348685 Ep 1094 | Save Our Girls. Vote Kamala Out https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1094-save-our-girls-vote-kamala-out/id1359249098?i=1000675675691 ---   Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

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That's fellowship homelones.com slash alley, term supply, see site for details, fellowship home loans, mortgage lending by the book, nationwide mortgage bankers, DBA Fellowship Home Loans, Equal Housing Lender, NMLS, number 819382. The results are in from the secret vote that was conducted this morning in the Senate for the Senate leader. We will talk about that. President Trump is in D.C. talking with Joe Biden about their transition. Also, we've got Lila Rose here to discuss the future of the pro-life movement. Now that Trump is in office.

And we will also talk about my exchange with Sophia Bush, the actress on Instagram. Yikes. We've got all of that and more on today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use Code Alley at checkout. That's Good Ranchers.com, code Alley. Hey, guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far. I'm so excited about my conversation with Lila. But first, I just want to give you an update on what's happening in Washington, D.C., both with Donald Trump, meeting with Joe Biden and in this Senate process. So as you know, Republicans got a Republican trifecta.

They've got the White House. They've got Congress and they've got the House and they've got the Senate, which hopefully means that they can get a lot of stuff done. And one of the most important things Donald Trump can get done is get his appointments, his nominees through. But that really depends on the effectiveness and the cooperation of the Senate leader. Senate Republicans met this morning to elect their. new leader to replace Senator Mitch McConnell. He stepped down from party leadership after an 18-year

run, making him the longest serving leader in Senate history. GOP Senator John Thune of South Dakota won the vote. He beat Texas Senator John Cornyn on the second round of voting. And he also beat out Rick Scott. Rick Scott was seen as kind of the underdog. He was a little bit of the outside pick. He is a Republican senator from Florida. He was also seen as the MAGA pick. These are, this is the person who in the MAGA world and in the MAGA media world was highly favored because he is seen as most in alignment with Trump's agenda and most enthusiastic about pushing Donald Trump's agenda through the Senate.

And so a lot of people are disappointed about this, that John. one. We'll talk a little bit more about who he is and what his record is, some good things why people are concerned. But let me talk a little bit about this secret ballot process that people were upset about. A lot of people wanted this to be a public vote. So you should know whom your senator actually voted for. I mean, you voted for this senator to represent you. And so a lot of people are saying, well, it shouldn't be a secret ballot vote. Like, what it was this morning, but this should be transparent. I should know whom he supported. I should be able to call him and pressure him to vote for the person to be the leader that I want to be

the leader. But if it's a secret vote, they don't have a whole lot of accountability or incentive to be able to vote for the person that their constituents want. Tucker Carlson sounded the alarm about this just the other day. He said, what the age is going on in the U.S. Senate. Hours after Donald Trump wins the most conclusive mandate in 40 years, Mitch McConnell engineers a coup. He calls it a coup. This is his perspective against his agenda by calling early leadership elections in the Senate. Two of the three candidates hate Trump and what he ran on. He's talking about Thune and Cornyn. One of them, John Corny, is an angry liberal whose politics are indistinguishable from Liz Cheney's. Of course, Liz Cheney is the Republican Congresswoman that

campaigned with Kamala Harris, who has always hated Donald Trump. The election is Wednesday. It's by secret ballot and it will determine whether or not the new administration succeeds. Rick Scott of Florida is the only candidate who agrees with Donald Trump, call your senator, and demand a public endorsement of Rick Scott. Don't let McConnell get away with it again. Now, McConnell was very instrumental in pushing Donald Trump's nominees through the Senate. But he has also seen obviously as an establishment type who is not really a part of the MAGA world. A Thune will be the majority leader for the next two years come January. He has held his Senate seat since 2005. He does have, and this is a great thing, of course, an A-plus score in the Susan B. Anthony pro-life scorecard.

Thune is generally seen as a traditional conservative Republican, but he's kind of more in alignment with establishment positions on fiscal policy, foreign policy. He did not vote to convict Trump during either of his impeachment trials, but has been critical of his more America-first policies, according to the Heritage Action Foundation. Thune has a 62% lifetime conservative voting score, which is not all that great. Of course, the candidate with the highest score was Rick Scott. And so that's why some people are frustrated about this. those in Trump's orbit like Peter Navarro, former White House aide, have questioned whether

Trump's cabinet nominees would get confirmed if John Soon is a leader, of course, which he is, he was wondering this a few days ago, or if John Cornyn would be able to get them through. He said there's 4,000 appointments that have to be fulfilled. A thousand of those are Senate confirmed. And four years of Mitch McConnell, who was the puppeteer for Thune and Cornyn, we didn't get half of those. And so I mentioned that the judge appointments were pushed through by McConnell and that was very instrumental. But Peter Navarro was saying, actually, we didn't get as many appointments through as we should have. And he says that Mitch McConnell was more of an

impediment than an instrument in helping Donald Trump. Also note that House Republicans are holding their elections for House leaders today. But House Speaker Mike Johnson is expected to be reelected. John Thune said this. He said, I'm extremely honored to have earned the support of my colleagues to lead the Senate in the 119th Congress. I am beyond proud of the work that we have done to secure our majority. And the White House, this Republican team is united behind President Trump's agenda.

And our work starts today. Jesse Kelly pointed out something very true that if we don't like the leadership that we are getting, all of this starts in the primary process. If you live in a Republican state, advocate for the primary candidate that you want because you can get pretty much any Republican over the finish line. And so really try and work to get the candidate in that you want in the primary season. Now, Trump is in D.C. to meet with Joe Biden in the Oval Office, we've got a video of President Trump exiting his airplane landing in D.C. Now Biden did not have to invite Trump to the White House. Trump didn't have to come, but he did.

And I think that this is good. But remember that Joe Biden has called Donald Trump a fascist. And he said that we have to do whatever possible to stand against these MAGA extremists. And so basically, likening him to Hitler and his movement to Nazis, he recently called Trump supporters garbage. And so it is strange to see this kind of peaceful exchange. There's a picture of them shaking hands. And he said that he hopes for a smooth transition. But either you lied when you said that he was a fascist or you're lying now when you say that you want to hope for a smooth transition.

If you are lying when you and Harris said that he's a fascist, that his supporters are like Hitler and Nazis, then maybe cool it. Like if you don't really believe that, all you're doing is really. ratcheting up the hatred, the temperature, the violence that causes the assassination attempts both on Donald Trump and his supporters. And that is a really evil thing to do. So I hope you see Democrats that those who are calling Trump, Hitler, don't really believe that. So you shouldn't believe it either because it is not true. So that's what's happening in Washington, D.C. Now with Lila Rose, we are going to talk about the future of the pro-life movie. What does it look like now that we have Trump in office, but we've lost, unfortunately,

in several states? What is the strategy going forward? And yes, I will debunk some of the things that Sophia Bush said to me on Instagram. Before we get into the conversation with Lila, I want to tell you about our first sponsor for the day. That is Carly Jean Los Angeles. You guys know how much I absolutely love all my clothes from CJLA, the shirt that I was wearing yesterday that everyone was asking me about on Instagram.

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I love all of their stuff. It's very simple, clean. You can mix and match. You can wear it in any stage of life, any season of the year. The best part is this is a company run. by a Christian family. They love the Lord. They seek to glorify God and everything they do. And they make and provide beautiful clothing for women. I love it so much. If you go to Carlyjean, Los Angeles.com, this is a new code and use code Allie B-30. You get 30% off their

entire site. So that is a higher discount than usual. Take advantage of it now. Carlyjean, Los Angeles.com, code Allie B-30. Lila, thanks so much. for joining us again. We've got so much to cover. First, I want to talk about your endorsement of Donald Trump. This was a few days before the election. You and I have talked about, you've talked a lot about previously some of your criticisms of his statements when it comes to abortion and even his prescriptions when it comes to abortion policy. So can you just give us a behind the scenes look of how you kind of worked that out. How did you decide to endorse Trump?

Of course. So as you guys, or as you know from your own show and following it on your show, Allie, there have been some big changes in the Republican national platform over the last few months since the R&C. And then in the posture, really, of the Trump campaign. And that's really where my criticisms resounded. The fact that President Trump, unfortunately, his efforts and his pressure on the platform, basically gutted the platform of pro-life protection. So it used to have prohibitions of abortion

and mentioned abortion over 20 times. Now it mentions abortion once or twice. It put in things like birth control and IVF, took out natural marriage, the support by Republicans of a marriage between one man, one woman. So all of these things were really concerning. And then the posture of the campaign changed. And President Trump started saying things like he supports reproductive rights. He supports and J.D. Vance supports the Supreme Court giving people access they claim to abortion pills. That's not exactly what the Supreme Court decision even said, but regardless, the statement in media was we support access to abortion pills. And then this government-funded IVF policy, which was a new public policy that they announced during the campaign in just the few weeks before

election day. So I was very critical of these moves as it is my responsibility as a pro-life advocate. And there were really thousands of other pro-life advocates, including many leaders, and people in media who were also very critical. And I think that criticism was absolutely essential, including the threat of what those positions would do to the vote on election day. Because you can't alienate your base and expect your base to be extremely galvanized

and excited to come out and vote for you. And some of Trump's strongest base has been pro-life Americans. So that was where my criticism was. And I was part of a pressure campaign to say, you have to change course on. this and this is not the way to go. This is not just. This is not going to help unborn Americans on the future of this country. And there was a little bit of change in the campaign. I think there were some small wins that we had from that pressure campaign. But now we have a lot more of a pressure campaign to

do. A like on Amendment 4 in Florida, that was something that was troubling to so many of us when Trump said, you know, he really didn't know how he was going to vote on Amendment for. Of course, that would have guaranteed abortion through all nine months in the state of Florida, which has had and still has, thankfully, this heartbeat law. And so that was disturbing to a lot of us pro-lifers. And you spoke out against this. You took so much heat from some conservatives, from a lot of MAGA people criticizing you, basically being like, look, he's got the, he's the best that we've got.

And so just stop critiquing him. But you obviously did not listen to those attempts to try to silence. you, were you able to during this time, as you were speaking up about his comments about Amendment 4, were you able to talk to anyone on Trump's team? Were you able to communicate them to actually get your message to Donald Trump? Yeah. So it's great you bring up Amendment 4 because I think that really is the win on the pro-life side with us expressing our concern about these positions. And he said, you know, Amendment 4 and the heartbeat law, which is the law in Florida didn't have enough weeks, meaning President Trump was indicating that there needs to be more abortion

legal beyond the heartbeat being able to be detected of the baby to take the life of that child. And Amendment 4, this was kind of his criticism of it, would allow the heartbeat law to be repealed. And he doesn't like the heartbeat law. So that was where we were really concerned. Is he going to come out against Governor DeSantis? You know, a Republican governor who's very popular, very strong fighting against Amendment 4, is now the GOP nominee going to come out for Amendment 4? I mean, it would have been horrible, and that's what he was indicating.

So, yes, you're like you said, he changed course. He said, no, he's going to vote against Amendment 4. And then the Pro Life side prevailed in Florida and defeated Amendment 4, thanks to the leadership of Ron DeSantis. And I think President Trump saying that he was against, I think that did help the win in Florida. I did have the opportunity to be in touch with the campaign. I did have the opportunity to sit down with President Trump and talk with him about our

disagreements on abortion. And he was very generous with his time. We were able to talk for a couple hours. think that there was, you know, I think there's an openness to hearing other perspectives on the campaign, which is really rare. I certainly wasn't sitting down with Kamala Harris' campaign. They're hardcore pro-abortion, as we all know. And I think that, you know, he understood that this was a red line that for pro-life, he shouldn't cross. And that's why I believe he did come out in support the pro-life side when it came to Amendment 4. You know, Ali, we have a ton of work to

do. That's the reality. The pro-life movement has a ton of work to do, changing hearts and minds working the state fight and working the federal fight to protect life. And I'm very hopeful that Trump's administration, despite some of their abortion supporting stances that he's had, that they will be friendly to pro-life appointments that will make a big difference in the administration. So that's really where our focus is at live action along with our primary focus, which is changing hearts and minds. And you know, you're right. I did take a lot of heat from, you know, very passionate Trump supporters. But I think there's something called loyal opposition or friendly opposition where it's our job to speak up for what's right. And it wasn't to say President

Trump's bad or that, you know, you should go vote for Kamala Harris. That was never, of course, part of the messaging, never part of the, you know, the cry for what we should do. It was more that we need to urge the Republican Party to not give up on life and marriage. And sometimes that is threatening the vote to say, if you're going to make all of these compromises, you're going to kill your base. Don't do it. And I do think that can be effective. And I do think we had some wins during the campaign. Yeah, you know, that's something that I've been thinking about and talking about some since Trump won the election was what is the role of conservative Christians, pro-lifers like you and me, now that we have won. Because we've got this new coalition of Republicans.

The change in the platform kind of reflects that. I agree with you that I don't like any of those changes to the platform. We have brought in people to the benefit of the Republican Party. like Joe Rogan, like RFK Jr, like Tulsi Gabbard, and it's good in the sense that it helps us win elections. It brings more people over to our side. But of course, we don't want the Republican Party to go the way of the Conservative Party in Canada or the UK,

which is really not conservative in any sense, very pro-choice. We want to be anchors. We want to use the power of persuasion to bring those people in the MAGA camp, the center, center-left people, that are now a part of the Republican Party over to our side. As you are meeting with Donald Trump and, you know, I don't know what you can say about that meeting. It's fine if there are things that are confidential, of course.

But did you feel any hesitance or resistance as you were explaining, okay, this is what an abortion is? This is why it's so important to be fully pro-life. What was kind of the sense that you had as you were talking with him? I mean, to be very candid, the sense that I had was that there weren't a lot of folks that are in his most inner circle that are willing to speak very candidly and say, abortion is always wrong. Abortion takes the life of an innocent child. It's always wrong. It should never be permitted under law and we should fully reject it as a society, that this is an innocent life.

Whether they're conceived in violence, whether they're only six weeks old and their little heart is just beating, it doesn't matter. This is a human being and they deserve to not be killed. And so that was my position and I was, you know, showing videos to the president. I was talking with him about the pro-life position and why we believe what we believe and why this is not just a religious matter or a conservative matter, but that this is a human rights issue. And, you know, there were some moments there where I think there was a sense that this was not a message that he hears a lot. And there was even surprise about the IVF mandate that this would be something that pro-lifers would have a concern about or those that were worried about the protection of life would even be concerned about the IVF mandate. So I do think it's really important that we keep channels of communication open with those in government with, of course, President Trump and his campaign, now his administration, and that we don't take it for granted that, oh, everybody knows why we're pro-life and why we believe what we believe, but that we take the time to educate and explain it to people again and again and again.

Because keep in mind the background of someone like President Trump and the background of many Americans today. They grew up in a country and they operate in circles that are very in support of abortion. It's baked in. People think, of course, pro-choice. It's women's empowerment. People don't realize what abortion is and realize that it is possible to ban abortion. It is possible to have a pro-life society. And that is a better society.

I think that's a new vision that we have to communicate and take time to patiently walk people through to help win them over. And so you mentioned, you know, Tulsi Gabbard and RFK and some of of these other folks that have, you know, Elon Musk is another one that President Trump has surrounded himself with, especially during the campaign. And I think, you know, I'm really hopeful. I'm really hopeful that all of them can become passionately pro-life because I think they're people of good reason and they're people who want to do the right thing. That's my impression. They've got good hearts. They're obviously very talented. My hope is that they can come to see abortion for what

it is, Ali. This is the killing of a baby. It's never acceptable. And a humane, loving, just society, a civilization that has a future protects its children. So I'm really hopeful that we're going to see more conversions to life in the future. Mm-hmm. Me too. Me too. Quick pause to tell you about our next sponsor for the day. That is Adele Natural Cosmetics. This is another Christian family run company. This is a cosmetic skincare company where all of their products not only contain the most natural ingredients, but also everything is made in the USA. They make the, small batches by hand in the U.S. That's why all of their stuff is so high quality,

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I use their essential line every day. Sometimes I also use their Blue Lagoon line, like their body oil, super moisturizing. Go to adele natural cosmetics.com. Use promo code Alley for 25% off your first time purchase. Try them out. Adelnaturalcosmetics.com code Alley. So one question that you and I talked about on your show was,

are we rewarding the Republican Party and their new platform and the compromises that we see them making with our vote? And if we continue to do that, are we helping this negative reformation of the Republican side? But at the same time, we look over to the left and we see the bloodthirst and the horror of the current Democratic Party and certainly specifically someone like Kamala Harris, who's, calling card has been abortion for decades. So how did you decide to not only vote for Donald Trump, but advocate for voting for Donald Trump as you were wrestling with that question that we discussed in the past? Yeah, I would be honest, Ellie, it was really tough to, it was one thing to come out and say, I'm voting for Donald Trump. It's another thing to say, you know, everybody, you have to vote for Donald Trump. And what I said was, this is why I'm voting for Donald Trump. And it's because

it's a vote against ultimately Kamala Harris is completely destructive. I would say even maniacal pro-abortion agenda. You know, Kamala Harris talked on the campaign trail about how she would force even doctors and nurses and hospitals to participate in abortions, that she had no concessions, she said specifically, for conscience exceptions for people that didn't support abortion in health care. And what that really means is if you're a nurse and you refuse to be part of killing a baby or you're a doctor and you tell your patient, I don't do that. I need to refer you elsewhere, you could lose your license. It would destroy our medical system as we know it. And so these are the sorts of things that Kamala Harris, and I know you know this, we're campaigning, was campaigning on.

It was insane, right? And so for me to come out and say, I'm going to vote against Kamala Harris by voting for Donald Trump. Yeah, there's a risk there, Ali. Let's be real about it. There's a risk that the fact that pro-lifers did come out for Donald Trump on election day, that there will be bigger challenges in the future that we will face because it's going to get more, abortion is going to get more baked in in the Republican Party. And we're going to lose candidates, lose future leaders. And so we've got to double down now as a movement to, first of all, push the administration to be as pro-life as possible, right? And then also to get involved in primaries, get involved in, of course, state elections, state, you know,

legislative efforts to push the pro-life message and work to shore up the Republican Party platform the next go-around. We've got a few years here to really double down on building our movement up. One of the things that I did, you know, live action, a lot of people may not know this, but live action is an educational nonprofit that actually doesn't largely do politics. So my critique of President Trump was in my personal capacity. My critique of Kamala Harris was in my personal capacity through my independent podcast. So that was my project. But I, you know, and we focused on changing hearts and minds because our, my heart is cultural change. You know, political change is essential, but we need cultural change. So that's live actions primary focus. But watching the last

couple years play out in the post Dobbs world, Roe v. Wade's overruled, then all of a sudden you have literally billions of dollars being poured into elections and ballot initiatives and just media in general by the pro-abortion side to tell women you're going to die, you need abortion. This is like, you know, D-Day for you as a woman, you know, your rights as a woman. And so, you know, when I saw that happen, obviously, you know, we're on the phone. We're talking with other political pro-life groups to say, you know, how can we help, you know, keep up the fight. But we've been just completely blasted by the pro-abortion side. And the pro-life side alley is outspent sometimes up to one to $30, $1, $1,000 up against $30 in a state ballot initiative contest or in the elections.

It's Republican versus Democrat dollars, 30 to 1, 32 to 1, 32 Democrat dollars being spent on abortion, one Republican dollar being spent on life. I mean, these are crazy outspending, a crazy amount of outspending that the abortion side, the pro-abortion side is doing. Anyways, all this to say, what's the pro-life response? How do we respond to this? We got to double down on changing culture. That's what live action spends virtually all of our focus on.

But then we do have to do politics. We've got to get involved in elections and these ballot contests. And that's a huge project. And there are good people in that space, Alley, but there aren't enough. And so one of the things that we did at live action and our contribution is to start live action victory. We spent almost a million dollars in Florida and in Missouri to fight these pro-abortion amendments. And, you know, that's, that's a tiny amount of money, though. I mean, it sounds maybe

like a lot to some, but compared to the almost billion dollars that was spent in the election cycle on abortion, it's a drop in the bucket. And so what is my, you know, what's the plan moving forward? We have to build up a ground game of pro-lifers that are not just mobilized and organized, but we need to build the war chest so we can compete with the pro-abortion side in media and we need to be the media. And that's live action's number one focus is, you know, we're a little unique as a public organization. We're basically a media organization. Everything we do with is social media, earned media. Obviously, we do some paid media now with our ads and everything, but it is a media organization. It's a project to get every influencer we can, every news,

media personality we can, behind the scenes or in front of the scenes, supported and educated and passionate about life so they can multiply the educational effort. And that's what live action does. I think we're doing it well. Are we doing it enough? No, you know, we should be a multi-hundreds of millions of dollars organization that is working with thousands of influencers and legislators that is doing 10x what we're doing now. But we're working hard towards that and we're a thousand percent committed. We're in this to win this. Yeah. And yes, there are setbacks with the Republican party's posture right now. But my hope is, with God's mercy, that we can have pro-life leadership in this administration, despite the setbacks, and that we can, through the cultural shifting,

that's already, I believe, happening, we can maximize that. We can exponentially grow that, again, with God's grace, to change hearts and minds. And there is good signals that some of that is happening, but we need everybody in this fight. We need all hands on deck because this is, this is the fight of our life. Yeah. You know, this message that Kamala Harris ran on, which is you've pointed out, as many of you've pointed out, it was exclusively about abortion. I mean, every single speech, her high points at her debate were her defending abortion. It's when she became most articulate, the most charismatic, the most dynamic. It's when she really didn't kind of defer to her word salad explanations of things. This is clearly like what animates her, which of course

is very demonic, dark, and disturbing. But again, that was her main focus. And she thought that that would win her the election. And what they tried to do and the abortion side, I think this is kind of like a novel tactic. Maybe you've seen this for a long time of trying to conflate abortion with miscarriage, trying to say that, well, because you have to have a DNC many times after your miscarriage and DNC is often a part of the abortion process,

these are the same things and miscarriage care is actually being prohibited by these pro-life laws because of the Dobbs decision. That was decided because of the justices that Donald Trump nominated while he was president the first time. And obviously that manipulation tactic and this focus on abortion did not work for Kamala Harris on a national scale. But it does seem to have worked in some states. You mentioned the state of Florida Amendment 4. did not pass. You guys worked really hard to make sure that the voters were informed. Governor DeSantis and First Lady Casey DeSantis, as you've also noted publicly, worked so hard to educate the public about that. But when we look at places like Arizona, when we look at places like Missouri, you also mentioned

Missouri. Unfortunately, in Arizona, Proposition 139 passed. They just needed a simple majority, but 61.7% voted to sanction abortion through all nine months as a human right in that state. Amendment 3 in Missouri passed, sadly, with 52.6 percent. They went from having no abortion clinics to now being an abortion sanctuary state, basically. And so when you look at these losses, which are devastating, do you think it's a product mostly of disinformation? Or, as some people, unfortunately, believe that it's because the true pro-life all-the-way message isn't a winning message. And some people might say, well, we just need to compromise on abortion, look at these losses on the state level.

What do you think? Yeah, it's a really good question. It's the thing that we've been talking about nonstop behind the scenes before and after the election is how can we make, you know, they talk about pro-life viability, not the viability of the baby, but is pro-life viable politically? And there's a few information points that are really important to point out. So first of all, in South Dakota, the pro-life side prevailed. So we won that ballot initiative in South Dakota.

What happened in South Dakota? This is obviously a very red state, but the pro-abortion side actually didn't put any money into the fight. There's different reasons for that, but they just didn't even bother. And the pro-life side won. Then let's look at Missouri, right? In Missouri, over $30 million, Allie, were spent by pro-abortion groups. George Soros personally donated over $4 million to defeat Amendment 3 in Missouri. And this was the whole, sorry, to get Amendment 3 passed in Missouri.

So there was a ton of pro-abortion money put in. How much money was put in on the pro-life side? Less than $2 million. Now, that should just break everyone's heart because Missouri, we lost in Missouri by less than two percentage points. So we're talking, you know, tens of thousands of votes that were, you know, potentially could have been swayed if we had had a little bit more of a fight in the state, if we had had had a little bit more resources. And I'll just share. You know, I was on the phone.

And again, live actions focus historically has not been state ballot initiatives. It's education. It's young people. It's all this stuff. But, you know, I was on the phone in the weeks and the months leading up to these initiatives calling philanthropists, asking them to get involved. and because of a lot of factors, but in part the losses after Dobbs, the early losses in state ballot initiatives, there was a lot of fear, a lot of hesitance, and there's not as many deep pockets, quite frankly, on the life side as there are in the pro-abortion side. Does this mean we're always

going to lose? Does this mean there's no hope? Of course not, because this is a groundswell that we can build. And with all the billionaires that we're up against, we can get millions of Americans who are activated and strong, and that did happen in Florida, that did happen in South Dakota, and that also, by the way, Ali happened in Nebraska. So there were three pro-life wins

this election cycle, despite being outspent and despite being up against institutional pro-abortion media. So all this to say, what does this mean for these losses? Does this mean that, oh, it's so baked in,

people are never going to change? It means we haven't reached enough people with the truth. That's what these losses mean. And I know this for a fact because if you're a voter in the state of Arizona and you were thinking about how you were going to vote on abortion, you know, in that ballot initiative, you were getting hammered by ads that told you that if you voted against abortion, you were voting against women. Yeah. And that you were going to be the reason for women dying in Arizona or the reason for women dying in Colorado. And you take your average person, Ali, you take even your average Christian, your average evangelical or Catholic, who's not super involved in Perlief movement stuff, who's not maybe super involved politically, but they care about trying to be a good person and helping other people.

And they are told this law is too extreme. Women will die if you pass it. It is unreasonable. And they're not hearing a counterpoint. Maybe they heard one time on Facebook, they saw some Perleaf posts, but they've never really heard a counterpoint. I understand why they might vote for abortion in that case. I understand why they might get out and think that that was the right thing to do. And so that's what we're dealing with.

And it should both sober us, but it also should give us a lot of hope that this is really a fight for who can get the message out more and better. That is the fight that we are in. And so live actions focus is that 1,000 percent? That's what we're doubling down on. And other pro-life groups, they're all doing different parts of the movement. I want to just say one other thing. I've heard some people criticize like, what are these pro-lifers doing? They're not working together or, you know, they're just sitting on their laurels. You know, Roe v. Wade was overturned and now they don't care anymore. That's not true. If you're in the pro-life movement, sure, you're going to have a lot of criticism of strategic choices. Like, oh, I think this is smarter than that or I don't like this approach versus that approach. But the people that I know in this movement and I know all the national leaders, I know thousands of activists. I've talked with thousands. of activists, they are working really hard and they care a lot. And they're doing the very best that they can with the opportunities and options that they have. And they're going to try to get smarter and

better and work harder. But my message to anyone who's critical right now, if there's someone critical, is first of all, pray for an end to abortion. And then second of all, get in the fight. We need you. None of us are perfect. None of us are going to be perfect leaders or perfect activists or perfect Christians. Yeah. But we need to try. We need to try. That's what God. God wants from us. And that's what our country needs from us at this time. Next sponsor is Seven Weeks Coffee. Gosh, I just have the best family-run Christian pro-life companies that support this show relatable. And I love partnering with them. Seven Weeks Coffee has its name because at seven weeks gestation, that baby inside the womb is the size of a coffee

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You know, I've been a little surprised. You talk about being up against Goliath when it comes to spending, but it's also just when it comes to influence. the number of social media followers of those of us who are over here versus the people who are famous not because of their commentary or their activist work, but because they're on, you know, the silver screen. And so they've got millions of followers or someone like Taylor Swift who said she's voting for Kamala Harris for quote unquote reproductive rights. Like we're also, you know, David to continue on the metaphor in that sense too, because I know live.

action has a huge social media footprint. But when we're up against someone like an actress that I went back and forth with last night, Sophia Bush, who has, I don't know, four to six million followers who are all telling people. And you mentioned like just the average Christian who just wants to help people. They hear this message from someone like Sophia Bush. She told me, you've got blood on your hands. You have blood on your hands because you are advocating for the pro-life position and she's spreading this disinformation that these Texas women died because of the pro-life laws in Texas. Nevia Crane and there was one other one other woman that she referred to that said died because of these pro-life laws jossily. But of course that's just not true.

Nevia's story, for example, she just needed antibiotics. She had an infection. Her baby was actually fine. She was six months pregnant. So the baby. was what is considered viable 24 weeks, even though babies have survived before that. It had nothing to do with needing, needing, quote, unquote, an abortion or miscarrying or anything like that. She just didn't get the medical care that she needed. And then the other young woman also didn't need an abortion. And Texas law actually would have allowed her to have an early delivery because the end of

her life was so obviously imminent. And so they take these stories. Sophia Bush did this. They take these stories. They stoke fear. And they tell women that if you are pro-life, then you are for killing women. It's the same kind of manipulation tactic that parents here, when they're like, if you don't allow your child to go on these puberty blockers, then they are going to kill themselves.

This is the worst kind of moral extortion, what I call toxic. empathy, emotional manipulation. You are ignoring the true victims in every case. In this case, the child inside the womb who would be violently poisoned and torn apart. But most people can't, they don't want to get that kind of pushback. You know, that's hard. Like you and I are, we're used to it. You've been doing this for years and years. You've heard the worst and most vile things about you. You've gotten all kinds of threats. to your safety for standing up for life. I even got messages from a Christian who follows Sophia Bush being like, you know, I'm a Christian and I'm pro-life, but I don't feel the need to publicly state my position like you do.

You just want more power. And I'm like, well, no, you're probably just cowardly. And I think that's an issue with a lot of people. They don't want to speak up for this. They don't want someone like Sophia Bush coming after them. they don't want to be called names and be accused of not caring for women. And so just encourage those people who may be on our side or thinking about being on our side, but they're just not sure that they can take the heat.

Yeah, it's such a good point, Allie, and you do such a great job. So thank you so much. You're one of the best leaders that we have in the entire movement who are speaking out on life. And in general, your voice is so needed. It's so powerful. Listen, there is not a single law, a single pro-life. life law, including in the state of Texas, that in any way prohibits miscarriage care. If the baby is passed away, if the baby, the miscarriage has begun, even Texas law explicitly

states that removing that baby and the procedure to remove the dead baby may be similar to the procedure to remove a living baby and kill that baby via elective abortion. When you're removing a dead baby, though, that is not an illegal abortion. That is a DNC procedure being used in some cases to remove a dead baby. Texas law explicitly states this. In fact, there's not a single pro-life law in the country that prohibits emergency medical care to a mother that might involve an early delivery if it's an emergency or that prohibits miscarriage care or that prohibits care for an ectopic pregnancy. Show me the pro-life law and I will show you where it states specifically, just in case there's confusion, that an action, a medical action in those cases, is not an elective abortion and is in no way illegal in those states or anywhere in this country. That is the fact. So what Sophia Bush is doing, whether she is well-intentioned or not, I don't know her intentions, but what she is doing is she's taking stories that have been put out intentionally by the group ProPublica. So you mentioned these stories, Neviocryne, there's a whole host of other stories that are being promoted by groups like ProPublica who do these investigative reports. And they write really long pieces, you know, thousands of words pieces,

telling these stories of these women that are just tragic, right? When they talk about how in some of these cases the woman, maybe she's miscarrying, and she's turned away at the emergency room, they checked her vitals, they said she was fine, and then they sent her home, and then the problem got worse, and she went back, and then they sent her home again because they didn't understand how bad the problem was, and then she ends up dying. You know, maybe she came back to the hospital, the third time, and then she dies. These are multiple cases like this.

And then they say, well, the reason that she died is because she was somehow denied, an abortion. When first of all, ProPublica even admits they didn't interview a single person that actually cared for these women. In all of their reports, they don't have a single quote from a single medical professional who actually cared for these women who claim, oh, I didn't care for her because of abortion law. Exactly. No, the reality of what's happening here is the complications involved in misdiagnosing and unfortunately just poor medical care in some of these parts of, say, rural Texas, where it has nothing to do with not giving the woman an abortion. And abortion wouldn't have solved the problem anyways. It's about they didn't understand that

she was getting sepsis or they didn't understand that she was facing life-threatening bleeding and they weren't able to care for her in the way that she needed and she deserved. Here's the truth, Allie. I guarantee you, and I know, but they don't make headline news through pro-publica. There are cases of women in pro-abortion states like my state of California. who were given subpar care when it came to their pregnancies or their miscarriages. In fact, one of my friends recently had a miscarriage in California, and it was a partial miscarriage, incomplete miscarriage. She goes to the doctor.

The doctor sends her home. She says, well, should I get a DNC to complete the miscarriage? The baby's dead. The doctor says, well, wait and see, wait and see. She had an excruciating few weeks that included bleeding, that included a lot of fear and worry because she didn't get that DNC. And eventually she did get the DNC procedure. But if California was a pro-life state,

ProPublica could have called it. My friend had been like, she was denied care. Yeah, exactly. She had excruciating, bleeding for weeks. It has nothing again to do with pro-life law. Yeah. It has to do with medical providers that need to do better or just tragic cases.

Yes. Because tragedy does still strike. And, you know, even some of these cases, Ali, and you've been very outspoken about this one, some of these cases involved like Amanda Thurman, this bait and switch where the reporter, the pro-abortion reporter, starts the story of this poor woman,

she died because of pro-life laws. So they say, in this case, Amanda Thurman, it was Georgia's pro-life law that killed Amanda Thurman. You actually read the report. That's a complete fabrication. It's a lie. No pro-life law killed her. What actually killed Amanda Thurman in this particular case

is she was pregnant with twins, drove to a pro-abortion state, took an abortion pill. Without being seen by the doctor. They prescribed it to her. over the phone, not even knowing how far along she was. And she was pregnant with twins. And so obviously that's going to be very dangerous. Right. Because Planned Parenthood and abortion providers, they don't care about women. They want to fast track just giving out abortion pills and sending

them via the male. That's part of their whole agenda. So she ends up getting a life-threatening infection because of an incomplete abortion from the abortion pill. She ends up getting sepsis. She goes to the hospital. They're trying to stabilize her. They're trying to treat her. and they aren't able to save her life. And then ProPublica blames that on pro-life laws. I mean, it is wild what the media is doing. It's so, it's kind of like this out. You know, sometimes, I don't know if you've ever had this in your life,

but you meet someone and they just lie about everything, but they're so convinced of their lie. They're so convinced and persuaded by their own deception. And they're basically self-deceived. It's hard to call out the lie with a person. like that because they're so convinced. I think that's what we're dealing with. Some people who are so convinced that abortion is medically necessary when it isn't. And there's thousands of medical professionals who say it isn't, that they will take even the most, they will grasp at the most

crazy straws. Like, they will take Amanda Thurman's story and say, it wasn't abortion that killed her. It was a pro-life law when it is clear as day that it was a abortion that actually took for twins and her life. So, you know, we've got a lot of work to do. But, you know, I hope Sophia Bush will come around one of these days, and I'm sure you challenging her lovingly, but boldly, is going to help her doubt her own, I hope so, I pray so. Baked in narrative. Absolutely. I mean, you mentioned stories that I've also heard, too, a women tragically from California, the message I received and from other blue states saying, yeah, I had a miscarriage and I actually did not get the care that I needed. I was bounced around hospital to hospital in this fully pro-abortion state. And then I've had

lots and lots of women who tragically lost their babies by miscarriage who live in places like Texas or Arkansas or Tennessee or Florida who got the care that they needed. So obviously we have either it's a competency crisis or they're just very rare instances that are being highlighted or and I hate to think this way. I hope that there is no doctor or medical staffer or hospital who is maliciously allowing these kinds of tragedies to happen in order to make a political point to try to get these laws overturned. And I just want to say, if there's anyone listening who is here because you saw my profile on Sophia Bush's profile and you decided to tune in, this is a great one for you to tune into.

But I just want to give you the facts because I think a lot of people, as you said, have not actually read the text of the laws at all. Here is the text of the law in Texas, just a short snippet of it. Abortion, this is how it's defined in the Texas law, means the act of using a law. or prescribing an instrument, a drug, a medicine, or any other substance device or means with the intent to cause the death of an unborn child of a woman known to be pregnant. The term does not include birth control devices or oral contraceptives. An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to, A, save the life or preserve the health of the unborn child, B, remove a dead

unborn child whose death was caused by spontaneous abortion or remove an ectopic pregnancy. That seems to be the conflation, this spontaneous abortion versus induced abortion, which is really medical coding. But what matters legally is how the law actually defines these things. And that is clear its day. Elsewhere in the law, it specifies if there is an early delivery that's necessary to save the life of the mother or even to preserve the health of the mother. or even to preserve the health of the life of the mother, that is actually allowed in the Texas state law. But remember, if you have to lie or obscure the truth to defend your point,

you are on the wrong side. And that's all that seems to be happening on the pro-abortion side, including by people like Sophia Bush. One thing I'm seeing at such a good point, Allie, the Texas law is very clearly states miscarriage care is not abortion and not prohibited, obviously. But listen, I look at some of these cases that are being put out there, including by Sophia Bush and others, these really tragic cases of these women who didn't get good care, they end up

passing away or having really life-threatening, facing a life-threatening emergency. And one of the things that I see as a common thread with virtually all of these cases is a lack of a good primary care physician, a lack of a good OBGYN who is actually guiding that woman throughout her pregnancy and there to check in with her. These are women that are showing up at emergency rooms, they're showing up at urgent care centers. They're not showing up with their primary care or their OBGYN to help them understand how they're doing or what's going on and help guide the medical care that they need. And many of them didn't have good OBGYN prenatal care. So I do think that one positive response that we can have from all of these heartbreaking stories is that we need better health care for women in this country and for pregnant moms.

moms. And, you know, you need prenatal care is a good thing. You need good prenatal care, especially if it's a high risk pregnancy or if there's risk of miscarriage or, you know, repeat miscarriages in that woman's past. So that's a positive thing that we can be promoting as pro-lifers. There's a lot of pregnancy resource centers that provide medical care. We can be promoting their efforts, and this is free medical care, prenatal care given to pregnant moms. These are some things that we can speak to as the solution to the women's health risks and needs when it comes to pregnancy. So I'm hopeful that we, you know, the end game here is complete protection for babies and the best care possible for mothers.

And the prolific movement is already working for that. And that gives us the vision of what we're fighting for and how that can help solve problems for both mom and baby. Last sponsor for the day. Yes, another Christian family run pro-life, pro-God, pro-America Company. and that is good ranchers. We love good ranchers in our house. We ate some steak last night from good ranchers.

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Alley. Can you help me navigate practically what it looks like for the pro-life movement to gain background, especially in some of these states like Arizona in Missouri that unfortunately passed these measures to guarantee abortion? Obviously, you and I, we would like abortion to be gone forever from the moment of conception onward. And that's what we want. We believe all of those babies have a legal right to life to be recognized in the law as full persons. But in order to, let's say Missouri, no longer make Missouri an abortion sanctuary through all nine months, is it a solution or a practical strategy to the next time an amendment can come up for a vote say make an amendment that says, okay, there is no right to abortion after 12 weeks or after 20 weeks.

Like what is your take on that incremental approach? Is it strategic and effective or is that a kind of compromise that pro-lifers should not engage in? What do you think? I mean, I think that the route of compromise actually doesn't prove better than the route. of being completely for, you know, complete legal protections. And what I mean by that is when you look at the polling as an example of how the 15-week abortion ban compares in public opinion and their support for it to the heartbeat abortion ban, so the baby is protected around seven weeks when the heartbeat is detected versus 15 weeks.

And you see virtually no difference. And so that's one point that's really important is this idea that, well, Americans are okay with abortion, you know, in the first trimester, but not the second trimester. That's not necessarily true. It really depends on how the voter or how the person who's being pulled understands the question that they're being asked. And that's because there's so little education, meaningful education on abortion. A lot of people will hear, oh, the baby's heart is beating. Of course, I want to protect that baby. And that's where you've gotten more Americans, both Democrat and Republican, supporting heartbeat laws in polls than opposing them. Because,

they hear, oh, the baby's heart is beating. That's obviously a human, even in this poll question, I'm going to support a lot to protect that baby's life. But if they get asked by the pollster, instead of, would you protect a baby when the heart is beating, you get asked by the pollster, would you protect a baby? Or would you protect an embryo at five weeks? And would you prohibit abortion? Then they might think, oh, it's not really a baby yet. Just five weeks is so early. So maybe I'm going to support that kind of abortion. So what I'm trying to get to here is there is a huge education gap that exists in this country on life. And if you operate under an assumption that the education gap can't be solved, then I can understand why people would want these

incremental measures to be the focus. Because it basically is a thermometer to read, okay, this is where things are at today. And today, these amount of Americans want some abortion, so we've got to be incremental in our measure here. The problem with that as our political, strategy is inevitably political strategy influences how people see things culturally, and you know you know this, and vice versa. And it assumes that people can't change on this issue and that they're baked in. They're never going to change. The reality is people do change on this issue all the time. They change their minds on abortion all the time, depending on the inputs they're getting, the education they're getting. And then number two, if our movement makes

incrementalism be our primary focus, then we're sending the message that, yes, we're re-entrenching the message that, yes, some babies before 15 weeks or before seven weeks, those babies' lives don't really matter. They're not babies yet. We're kind of an agreement with you that at seven weeks, then it becomes a life that should be protected or at 15 weeks or maybe at 21 weeks byability, and we're okay. We're begrudgingly okay with the other abortions. It's okay. That is an educational message, whether we mean it or not, whether we intend it or not. And that educational message is re-entrenching this idea that a younger baby is less valuable and less worthy of rights than an older baby. And that is a mistake, I believe, for a movement to make. So I'm not saying here that it would

be wrong for a pro-life governor to sign a ban on abortion at 15 weeks if that's the law that came to his desk. I would prefer that and no protections in the state, right? We applaud that there is a heartbeat law in Florida versus a 15-week abortion ban because more lives are saved. but that cannot be the end game of our movement. And part of our messaging has to be the end game as well as our political strategy, which is complete legal protection for pre-born babies. And the more that we say that unapologetically and then educate about why that is, because a baby at five weeks is just as much of a baby at 15 weeks.

And a unique individual human life comes into existence at the moment of fertilization at spermag fusion. That single cell embryo is a human life. that will rapidly grow and develop, that just needs time and nourishment to get there, to make it to birth and to make it, you know, to one day we hope full adulthood and maturity. That is a human life. So our focus as a movement needs to be that.

And yeah, this is a hotly debated thing. But listen, I think that the answer to our losses in Arizona and our losses in Colorado and our losses in some of these other states is the pro-life movement needs to professionalize more than it already is. We're a very small professional movement. Some people say, oh, these pro-life professionals, what are they doing?

We're outnumbered and out-maned one to 100 or more when it comes to even comparing us to Planned Parenthood. We need to professionalize our movement more. We need more full-time people in the movement. We need more money in the movement. We need to be more sophisticated with their fundraising and raise more money to combat the pro-Bortion lies in the state ballot contests. We need to grow our media influence, grow our, you know, the power of what we're doing educationally behind the scenes. We need to obviously continue to grow and invest in our public. pregnancy resource movement and that movement, thankfully, there's a lot of strength there that is doing,

that's more well funded than any other part of the pro-life movement. That's a good thing. But we've got to professionalize even more. And we've got to grow the movement more than we've ever had it in the past because, of course, lives are at stake. So that is the, that is the marching orders moving forward. And I think, you know, your work, Allie, other people in media who are, you know, continuing to beat the drum on this and say, this is, this matters, this matters, this matters, that will help get more people into the fight. And just one last thing I'll say that I think is important. When it comes to pro-life politically, the difference between the pro-life issue politically and virtually every other issue is this. There is not personal satisfaction or advantage that a person involved in the pro-life

movement will get politically if they win a political achievement, if they get, you know, an abortion ban or legal protections for pre-born babies, that's a law to help future lives that they might never know they will probably never see. When it's any other political issue, the economy, freedom of speech, foreign affairs, education, the voter has some very personal skin in the game. They're thinking about their daughter, their son, their wallet, their tax write off. When the pro-life movement, we need people to care about people they're never going to meet, and they're going to get nothing politically out of this. In fact, they might take the hits. And so we have to work twice as hard is what I'm saying. We have to work twice as hard as people working in other issues. And that's okay. We're going to do it. But I think that context is also really important. Last question. Federal legislation and amendment. We've got a Republican trifecta right now. Do you think it's likely? And is that a top priority of the pro-life movement or do we need to focus more on changing hearts and minds? and trying the next go round to fix some of these awful decisions in some of these states that sanction abortion as a right.

Yeah, it has to be both and. I think it's a both and. And we do need, I do think we already have a constitutional amendment that protects the preborn life. Yeah, should. So we don't need a human life amendment in that the 14th Amendment specifically states that every person has equal protection under the law. and then it specifically states that no state, no state, so no California, no Colorado, no state has the right to deprive any person of life without due process under the law. And there's, of course, no due process for the baby who's being killed at a legalized abortion clinic where literally the cops will come to the clinic to protect the abortionist to kill the child and make money off of killing the child. That's the state of law in places like Colorado and California, right?

The state is using its power to franchise profitable, lethal killing, lethal destruction of human lives. That is not the state's right to do that. So in one sense, Ali, Dobbs v. Jackson, the case that overruled Roe v. Wade, there was a profound mistake in Dobs v. Jackson and the way that it was decided. because it intimated that now the states get to somehow regulate abortion and intimating that California, they can decide to legalize abortion. That's a direct violation of the 14th Amendment. And that's why this is a federal fight as much as it is a state's fight, because if there's a case where a law, a person in a state is being deprived their constitutional rights because of the state, then the federal government should, should get involved. And that's why we are urging federal legislation to protect pre-burned life to

undo the damage of states like California. Lila, thank you so much. And thank you so much for the work of live action. You have been out front taking the hits for a very long time. And I'm just encouraged by your courage always. Everyone should check out the Lila Rose podcast and all of the series that Live Action has been doing. The powerful exchange between former abortionists and those who survived abortions, just amazing. And follow live action. Get involved with live action if you haven't already. Is there anything else, Lila?

Thank you so much, Ali. I mean, don't give up on your friends and family. Minds and hearts do change. And sometimes you just have to plant the seed. So keep sharing pro-life content, you know, lovingly bringing this up in conversation. Live action is your resource for that. Ali mentioned face-to-face. That's a new campaign on our YouTube.

Check it out. And it's, you know, hearing the stories of other people who have had abortions or who have committed abortions, that's sometimes the most powerful. way to show yes, even they can change. And so there's hope for anyone. Anyone can change on this and keep praying too for an into abortion. Amen. Thank you so much, Lila. Thanks, Sally.