Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1104 | DEBATE: Should ‘Trans’ Congressmen Use Women’s Bathrooms? | Guest: Brad Polumbo

Episode Date: November 20, 2024

Today, Laken Riley's murderer was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole after being found guilty of all charges against him. Justice was served for Laken Riley and her family, though that will never replace what was stolen from them. We also discuss the latest drama at the Capitol involving Representative Nancy Mace's resolution preventing men who identify as women from using female bathrooms inside the Capitol building. This was in response to Representative-elect "Sarah" McBride, who identifies as a "transgender woman" winning the Delaware seat. We sit down with host of the Brad vs Everyone podcast, Brad Polumbo about that and things get a little spicy. And to tie it all together, we discuss the "Transgender Day of Remembrance," and some of the nonsense that certain churches started declaring in order to celebrate. Buy Allie's new book, "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": https://a.co/d/4COtBxy ---   Timecodes: (01:05) Jose Ibarra Found Guilty and Sentenced (13:32) Rep. Nancy Mace Bathroom Resolution (25:07) Speaker Mike Johnson’s Response (28:33) Public response to Rep. Mace (32:22) Brad Polumbo Debate  (57:04) Transgender Day of Remembrance ---   Today's Sponsors: We Heart Nutrition — Get 20% off women's vitamins with We Heart Nutrition, where 10% of every purchase supports pregnancy care centers; use code ALLIE at https://www.WeHeartNutrition.com. Range Leather — highest quality leather, age-old techniques and all backed up with a “forever guarantee." Go to rangeleather.com and use coupon code "ALLIE" to receive 15% off your first order. Good Ranchers — Go to GoodRanchers.com and use code ALLIE at checkout to claim your free Thanksgiving ham while supplies last. Patriot Mobile — go to PatriotMobile.com/ALLIE or call 972-PATRIOT and use promo code 'ALLIE' for a free month of service! Birch Gold — Protect your future with gold. Text ALLIE to 989898 for a free, zero-obligation info kit on diversifying and protecting your savings with gold. Plus, now through Black Friday receive a FREE 1-ounce silver eagle for every $5,000 purchased. ---   Relevant Episodes: Ep 1103 | Laken Riley’s Murder Trial: Chilling Details & Why It Matters | Guest: Dr. Albert Mohler https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1103-laken-rileys-murder-trial-chilling-details/id1359249098?i=1000677527288 Ep 558 | Based Debate: Libertarian vs. Social Conservative | Guest: Brad Polumbo https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-558-based-debate-libertarian-vs-social-conservative/id1359249098?i=1000549993834 ---   Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

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If you go to fellowshiphomeloans.com, you'll get $500 of credit at closing. That's fellowship homelones.com slash alley, term supply, see site for details, fellowship home loans, mortgage lending by the book, nationwide mortgage bankers, DBA Fellowship Home Loans, equal housing lender, NMLS, number 819382. Nancy Mace is fighting for women's rights to privacy and safety in Congress by trying to pass a resolution that would protect women's bathrooms and locker rooms at the Capitol in light of a recently elected man who identifies as a woman in Congress. We will be debating the subject today with someone who is on the other side of the issue. Also, Lake and Riley's murder has been found guilty on all 10 counties. and has been sentenced. We've got the details on that coming up. This episode is brought to you by our

friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use code alia at checkout. That's good ranchers.com. Code Allie. Hey guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a great day so far. Before we get into the conversation about bathrooms in Congress, I do want to give you an update on the Lake and Riley trial. We talked about all the details yesterday. And so if you need a recap on that, Make sure you watch or listen to yesterday's episode. But today, Jose Ibarra, her murderer, the illegal immigrant and Trindyaragua gang member, has been found guilty of murdering 22-year-old nursing student Lakin Riley in Athens, Georgia. He was found guilty of all charges, and he was subsequently sentenced to life without the possibility of parole in Athens. And here is SOT 14.

Count one, malice murder, I sentence you to life without the possibility of parole. Count two will be vacated as a matter of operation of law. Count three, vacated by operation of law. Count four, vacated by operation of law. count five life in prison consecutive to count one okay so this is very good news we are happy to hear this now obviously as I said yesterday I would have liked him to get the death penalty unfortunately the very progressive DA Deborah Gonzalez that originally charged Ibarra did not seek the death penalty she was

voted out this last election because of the anger and frustration of many Athens and Oconi County residents, even the more progressive ones. So this is really the best that we can get. I've seen some people ask me, why can't he be deported and serve out his life sentence in Venezuela? And that's because there's just no guarantee that he would actually get justice in those countries. of course that's just not how the whole legal system works. It's not how it's set up. But also, even if it did work that way, we wouldn't necessarily want that because he would probably find his way back into the United States.

This is really the only way that we can guarantee that he is not going to inflict violence on someone else. Now, this isn't really justice. Yes, the community is protected from further harm. from this person, but it's not really just because God is the only one who created and therefore can define justice. And Genesis 96 says that the death penalty is the only just and proportionate punishment for capital murder. And so this is less than justice. And actually, this is like a pretty good deal for him going from what I'm sure was poverty and violence in Venezuela to coming to the

United States living in New York getting a free taxpayer-funded flight to Georgia and then prowling around Athens, the college town to seek a young woman to rape, finding this young woman who fought back for 18 minutes of her life, according to her Garmin Watch, before she was brutally murdered. And so now he's going into prison, which is kind of an upgrade. It's kind of an upgrade from the past that he's had, especially in an American prison. And so this is not really justice. But I do pray for Lakin Riley's family. I pray that they would have peace.

I pray that they would find comfort in Christ. And although we would never have wanted this ourselves, we would never want someone like Lakin to be like the sacrificial lamb that is then used to change policy. We wish that our representatives would have just put in good policy that would have secured the border and would have deported him and punished him for his crimes a long time ago. I do hope that God and His mercy uses this to enact the change that we need, that will prevent more Lake and Rilis.

And I just found myself this morning as I was driving in because this story has just haunted me as someone who used to live in Athens, who was family in Athens, who knows that community. I just felt over and over again the thought of, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, Lakin, that our country failed you, that the people who are tasked to protect us failed you. I'm so sorry that you fought for 17 minutes while no one came to your aid. I'm so sorry that you had to fight. for the last remnants of your dignity before you were brutally murdered.

I'm so sorry that you have had to become a symbol for the dangers of illegal immigration instead of becoming a nurse. Like, I'm so sorry to your parents. I'm so sorry to your friends. I'm so sorry to this community. And even though we don't hold personal responsibility, there is this just kind of collective burden that we all carry to our, to, care for our fellow citizens. Countries are like families. And we should feel indignant when a fellow

citizen unnecessarily loses her life because of a preventable crime committed by an illegal alien. And we've got more on this in just a second. Let me pause and tell you about our first sponsor for the day. It's WeHeart Nutrition. I love WeHeart Nutrition. I take their supplements every day. It's helped keep me healthy, especially in cold and flu season. I started taking them at the beginning of this year. I really have seen a big difference, not only in my health, but just in the appearance of my hair and my skin. I take their magnesium, their omega-3s, their multivitamins, their iron supplement has been a game changer. All of the ingredients and their vitamins come into those bioavailable form.

And so your body really does absorb them. And it's made such a difference in my health. and they've got supplements for women of all ages, whether you're young, whether you're postmenopausal. They really do have a vitamin regimen that is just right for you. So take their 20 second quiz online and you can find the supplements that will work best for your body. Go to weheartnutrition.com code Alley for 20% off your order. Weheartnutrition.com code Alley. Donald Trump said this on truth social. He said justice for Lake and Riley, the illegal who killed our beloved Lake and Riley was just found guilty on all counts for his horrific crimes. Although the pain and heartbreak will last forever, hopefully this can help bring some peace and closure to her wonderful family who fought for justice and to ensure that other families won't have to go through what they have. We love you, Lakin, and our hearts will always be with you. It is time to secure our border and remove these criminals and thugs from our country. So,

nothing like this can happen again. Yes and amen. That is righteous policy. That is compassionate policy. That is mercy. That is the responsibility of our government to care for our own people for the sake of our sovereignty, for the sake of our citizens. That's what has to be done. And I am just so thankful that not only Donald Trump, but his newly appointed borders are, who will be the borders are, Tom Homan and Steve. and Miller and so many others that he's already named in his administration are border hawks. They really care about border security and border patrol. The morale is up like never before.

And that is a good thing. We especially want violent criminals who are here illegally to not only be deported, but also to be severely disincentivized to ever try to cross the border again. And I just think about how sad this is that Lakin Riley was not visited by the president. Like you'll remember, do you remember Jacob Blake, the man who was shot in the back by a police officer several years ago? He ended up, I believe, being paralyzed from the waist down because of this. But why was he shot in the back? Because he violated a restraining order.

And his girlfriend called the cops on him because he had sexually assaulted her in front of his children just days prior to this and yet he was there and he reached into his car for a knife and when he reached into his car for a knife the police shot him not only for their own safety which they have the right to do but for the safety of the vulnerable people that he was potentially about to attack and Kamala Harris went and visited him in the hospital and lionized him. It was the same thing with George Floyd, the Democrats honoring him, almost venerating him as a saint. And that's not to say that someone should be happy about the circumstances surrounding his death. He was also an image bearer of God. But when we look at the people

whom progressives admire and hoist up as heroes and memorialize and take the time to publicly sympathize with versus the ones that they ignore. It tells you a lot about their ideology. Now, all people, of course, Lake and Riley or George Floyd are all made in the image of God. But here, like we've got a very innocent, young. young woman who was violently murdered and most people on the left cannot muster any compassion. We certainly don't see corporate America and global movements being mobilized on her behalf. We don't see streets being renamed in her honor.

I certainly don't see conservative or rather social justice evangelicals telling us that riots are the voice of the unheard. on her behalf or posting black squares for her. And so this kind of lopsided compassion and outrage, I think, is very ugly and actually misdirected outrage in some cases is just very dangerous. And so pay attention to who is paying attention to this Lake and Riley trial and just remember her and her name and her story and this testimony when you are confronted with the onslaught of gaslighting and propaganda in the coming months when the deportations start. Remember Lake and Riley, remember Molly Tibbitts, remember Kate Steinle and so many others. Pray for him too. Pray that he would

come to know the Lord that he would be saved because no one is too far off. All right, before we get into the transgender madness that's happening in Congress. Let me pause and tell you about our second sponsor. That's Range Leather. I love this family-owned company. Kyle and Bailey are amazing. They make all of their products in the U.S. They started this company from their kitchen table. And they put so much effort into every leather product that they make because it's supposed to last a lifetime, whether it's a custom hat or belts or earrings or purses. I love my bag from Range Leather. I use it all the time. It really is beautiful. So high quality will last forever. These make for great gifts. So we're coming up on Christmas. If you want to get a high quality unique gift, that last check out

range leather. Go to rangeleather.com slash alley. You'll save 15% when you use my link. That's rangelether.com slash alley. Okay. Nancy Mace is rightfully raising a respectful ruckus about the bathroom situation at the Capitol because there is now a congressperson who goes by the name of Sarah McBride, who is trans identifying. So this is a man who dresses up as a woman who presumably will be entering female spaces. And Nancy Mace is saying, no thank you. She is a Republican representative from South Carolina. I have disagreed. with her on a variety of subjects. She is certainly more liberal than I am. And I've talked about some of the comments that she has made publicly that I just really did not like or align with.

But I do appreciate that she is leading the charge on this. She is unveiling a resolution that would ban so-called transgender women or men who identify as women from using bathrooms inside the Capitol. This, of course, drew immediate criticism from the Democratic representative, Sarah is what he goes by McBride, and he is the first openly trans-identifying member of Congress. So this is a resolution. This is not a bill. A resolution is a part of every new session of Congress where the House of Representatives pass a resolution package that sets its own rules for that term. Mace presented this House resolution, which she hopes will be included in that rules package at the beginning of the next term in January. They're not binding law, but they express the collective

sentiment of the House on a particular issue. Resolutions will typically be considered by the committee before they are sent on to the House. This simple resolution would only be considered by the House, would not need Senate or presidential approval. And basically, What it says is that there should be a prohibition on house members and employee from using restrooms, changing rooms, or locker rooms other than those corresponding to the biological sex of such individuals in the capital or in-house office buildings. And she has taken a lot of heat for this, but she has stood firm. Here's her explanation, SOT3.

Sarah McBride doesn't get a say on this. This is a biological man trying to force himself into women's spaces, and I'm not going to tolerate. You have the radical left that are trying to erase women and erase women's rights. I'm the first woman to graduate from the Citadel, the military college of South Carolina. If some guy in a skirt came by and said, no, that's my achievement. I'm going to be there and standing in the way and saying, hell, no. I'm not going to allow men to erase women or women's rights, and I'm going to be standing up here. I will file this again next congressional session.

Sarah McGride doesn't get a say. This is about women. This is about girls. This is about our rights and being protected in our private spaces. She's absolutely right. These are women's spaces and we should have a say. We shouldn't have to bend to the rules of men who wear a skirt who say that they have a right to infiltrate our spaces. I mean, these are private sex segregated spaces for a reason.

And in just a few minutes, I'm going to have a debate with someone named Brad Palumbo, who is on the other side of this issue. I've had him on before. and he has been gracious with his time to debate this. I encourage you to stick around for the whole 22-minute debate because it got increasingly heated toward the end of it. But I actually do think that you will find it very productive as you are having hopefully less heated conversations about this, about this subject. So Mace was asked before this answer that you just heard if she was going after a marginalized

person with her resolution. It's so insane how a man, a white man that we are told is like at the top of the intersectional totem pole all of a sudden, or the bottom of the intersectional totem pole, I should say, is the least amount of oppression points. He is the most privileged, according to progressive ideology, how he suddenly becomes marginalized when he puts on a skirt, wears lipstick, grows out his hair, and goes into women's spaces. She also mentioned there that she was the first woman to graduate from the Citadel. I have seen some conservative say, so, oh, she infiltrated man's spaces, and now she's mad when a guy is infiltrating a woman's space.

And look, I think those are different issues. I think that's a fine debate to have. I think it's important to have sex segregated spaces. both for men and for women for a variety of reasons, but the reasons are different. When it comes to bathrooms and locker rooms that are meant for women, it is for our protection, it is for our privacy, it is for our safety. You can make your arguments about women going to the citadel or taking part in traditionally male activities. I think that's a fine debate to have. I don't think this makes her a hypocrite. I think that is a different discussion. So this is what McBride has said to this

whole controversy. He said, everyday Americans go to work with people who have life journeys different than their own and engage with them respectfully. I hope members of Congress can muster that same kindness. See, this is a perfect example of toxic empathy using words like kindness or niceness or respect or dignity. That makes it seem like if you don't believe in men going into women's bathrooms, that you are unkind, that you are not showing respect and not showing dignity. But remember, when your empathy causes you to deny reality and or morality, that empathy has become toxic, you could feel for McBride and say, wow, if he really does feel like he's trapped in the wrong body, which I don't think is true for the majority of men

who identify his women, I think it's more of a fetish. But I don't know this person. So maybe he really has had a lifelong struggle of feeling like he is born in the wrong body. Maybe he is one of those very, very rare young men who struggled with true gender dysphoria and he feels liberated and free and his authentic self that still, of course, would not justify this at all. It is still immoral and violative of women's rights. But maybe that really is his story. You can have empathy for that pain and say, I have never felt that way. That would be really tough. That would be so difficult. Maybe he's had bad experiences in his past. And that has caused him to reject his masculinity or who he is as a male.

And you can have compassion for that. But if your empathy leads you to lie, to affirm his delusions, to validate lies, to encourage sin, then your empathy has become toxic. That's why Christians are not called primarily to empathy. We are called to the truth in love. God is love, 1 John 4-8. He gets to define it. 1 Corinthians 136 says love never rejoices in wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.

And so that kind of love, that truth in love dichotomy is much deeper and more difficult, requires much more sacrifices, often more unpopular than this kind of superficial toxic empathy that the world wants to tell you is loving, but it is the righteous way. And I do believe in this case, Nancy Mace is doing the truth in love option. which may seem harsh to the world, but it is harsh on behalf of the victims in this case, which is not McBride. The victims in this case are the women being forced to share a private space with a man. So Mace had her response to McBride, who also said, by the way, I forgot this part.

He said this is a blatant attempt from far-right-wing extremists. First of all, Nancy Mace is like center-right. She's not far-right by any definition. Far right-wing extremists to distract from the fact that they have no real solutions to what Americans are facing. Well, clearly we do because Trump just won the popular vote and the electoral vote and Republicans won the Senate and Republicans won the House. It was actually Democrats who were unable to present any real options to the American people. And it was this issue. The men and women's spaces that caused Democrats to lose, I think, in a lot of cases.

This was just the bridge too far. This is why Republicans hammered on this in the campaign, why Kamala Harris never once talked about so-called trans rights. While Mace had a response to this, stop for. Is this effort in response to Congresswoman with bribes coming to Congress? Yes, and absolutely, and then some. I'm not going to stand for a man. You know, if someone with a penis is in the women's locker room, that's not okay.

And I'm a victim of abuse, myself. I'm a rape survivor. I have PTSD from the abuse I've suffered at the hands of. hands of a man. And I know how vulnerable women and girls are in private spaces. So I'm absolutely a hundred percent going to stand in the way of any man who wants to be in a women's restroom in our locker rooms, in our changing rooms. I will be there fighting you every step of the way. You know, I appreciate that. And I just think that we need to share the arrows with her right now because she's going to catch a lot of heat. She's even going to catch some heat from Republicans.

And even if she's not getting criticism from all Republicans, there will absolutely be Republicans and conservatives who are silent about this, even members of Congress, who should have been the first ones. I mean, it should have been men to stand up and say, no, dude, like, you're not going to the women's restroom. That's not what we're doing. It's a woman doing that. And at the very least, other male members of Congress should be standing up and saying, yeah, like, I gotcha. I gotcha. I'm right there with you. Let me pause and tell you about our second sponsor for the day before we get into that.

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makes your life so much easier. I say that from personal experience. Go to good ranchers.com. Use code Alley to get that free Thanksgiving. Go to ranchers.com. Code Alley. Okay. So Mike Johnson, he is the Speaker of the House.

He is a Republican from Louisiana. When he was first asked about this whole debate, here's what he said, stop five. Is this a freshman elect Sarah McBride? or a woman? Look, I'm not going to get into this. We welcome all new members with open arms who are duly elected representatives of the people. I believe it's a command that we treat all persons with dignity and respect, and we will.

And I'm not going to engage in silly debates about this. There's a concern about the uses of restroom facilities and locker rooms and all that. This is an issue that Congress has never had to address before, and we're going to do that in deliberate fashion with member consensus on it, and we will accommodate the needs of every single person. That's all I'm going to say about that. Boo. Weak, weak. Thankfully, he clarified a little bit, and he said something that is very true and necessary at this point in history to say.

Here's SOT six. For anybody who doesn't know my well-established record on this issue, let me be unequivocally clear. A man is a man and a woman is a woman. and a man cannot become a woman. That said, I also believe, that's what Scripture teaches, what I just said, but I also believe that we treat everybody with dignity. And so we can do and believe all those things at the same time. And I wanted to make that clear for everybody because there's lots of questions. But that's where I stand.

I've stood there my whole life, and those are facts. Okay, so that's better. A man is a man, a woman is a woman. It's not only what scripture teaches. It is also what science teaches us. true from the moment of conception. We have these biological distinctions that also have implications societally for a reason. And it is largely for the protection of the more vulnerable sect, and that is, of course, women and especially girls. So I'm glad that he clarified

that. Now, I do, you know, I sympathize because I think he is in a tough position. And so he's trying to be as diplomatic and political as possible. He is a politician. And so he's saying probably what has to he said, we're going to treat everyone with dignity and respect. But of course, I want to know what exactly that means. He said that we are going to meet the needs of everyone. But of course, trans activists believe that you have a need to go into the bathroom that, of course, that corresponds with your so-called gender identity. But that doesn't outweigh the need of women and girls to have their sex separate spaces. Nancy Mace is calling herself a turf, which stands for a exclusionary radical feminist. And I don't refer to myself as a turf because I'm not a radical

feminist, just the T.E. But she does identify as a feminist, I would say. She said, this is so strange to me. 25 years ago, I was celebrated as the first woman to graduate from a formerly all-male military college. Today, I'm being attacked as a bigot for fighting for women's writes, the radical left has lost its mind. Now, unfortunately, she is also, and gosh, this is just tragic and really scary. She is receiving a lot of threats from people. I don't even think, like we have this video. I don't even think that I'm going to play it because it's just so disturbing. And I think this person just wants more attention. So I'm just going to say what this person in the video says. And we can at least.

to like put up her her post on X. She reposts a video that someone posted on Instagram. This is a man who identifies as a woman who tagged Nancy Mace in his story and said this. He said, look, I am going to grab your ratty looking effing hair, drag your face to the floor, repeatedly bash your head in until blood is everywhere and kill you. Okay. So these are the kinds of threats that she is getting from men who identify as women who say that they have a right to come into our spaces. Now, she's not saying, I'm not saying that that is Sarah McBride or whatever this person's name is or what his intentions are. This is not to say that everyone who identifies is the opposite sex is also a violent predator. But even if it's one, even if it's one in a hundred,

even if it's one in a thousand that's enough, then it's not just that. We're talking about truth. We're talking about reality. Megan Kelly, of course, had a great take on this. This had 84,000 likes on X, so it seemed to resonate with a lot of people. Probably has more than that now. She said, why should Nancy Miser, any other female member of Congress slash staff, have to share their bathroom with a man pretending to be a woman? It's not about the feelings of the man masquerading as a fake woman. It's about not forcing actual women to have to worry that a man is in their bathroom where they are vulnerable and which is supposed to be a safe private female only space members should stand up for women's rights and not be cowed by empty claims of quote unquote bullying women are the

ones being bullied into submission and she is absolutely right about that now speaker johnson has come out with an even stronger and clear statement that i really appreciate this just in he literally just published this So this is from the Speaker of the House, official letterhead, Speaker Johnson's statement on women's only spaces in the U.S. Capitol. Speaker Johnson issued the following statement regarding the use of single-sex facilities throughout the U.S. Capitol complex. All single-sex facilities in the Capitol and House office buildings, such as restrooms, changing rooms, and locker rooms are reserved for individuals of that biological sex.

It is important to note that each member office has its own private restroom and unisex restrooms are available throughout the Capitol. Women deserve women's only spaces. So that's the kind of clarity that we're looking for. Thank you, Speaker Johnson. All right. I've got a debate with Brad Palumbo, who is, again, on the other side of this issue. Brad identifies as a libertarian, and so he's not necessarily a leftist, but he identifies as gay himself. And so he is liberal, socially. We've debated some of these issues before today. We're specifically talking about this issue of men in women's restrooms. And just to reiterate, I really encourage you to stay all the way to the end of this debate just to get its full, full effect. The whole room in here was a little

stressed out. We're a little stressed out about this. But I did my best to advocate for our position. So I hope it's helpful to you. Without further ado, here is Brad Palumbo. Brad, thanks so much for coming on on such short notice. Okay, first, I just want you to make your case. It seems like from what I can see on X that you believe that what you would call trans women should have access to women's bathroom, specifically as we're talking about this story in Congress. Yeah, we're talking about this push in Congress from Nancy Mace and other Republicans to specifically prohibit Congress members and workers in Congress who identify as trans women. So they're born biologically male, but they present themselves as women from using women's restrooms in particular, but also

other sex segregated facilities. And I guess I just see the whole thing as a solution in a search of a problem. Basically, they've been using the facilities of their gender identity for years and years now at the Capitol. Nancy Mace has almost certainly been alongside Democratic staffers who are trans women in the washroom many times. And there's been no incidents, even when you zoom out and look across the country. Instances of physical assault or voyeurism or harassment in bathrooms are incredibly statistically rare. And these gender identity ordinances that they've passed in many blue areas that allow people to use their gender identity, their preferred bathroom, those don't correspond with any increase empirically in those crimes, in those offenses, according to a whole

host of studies. So I view the whole thing as kind of a culture war outrage that's solving a problem that isn't really there, but would have some actually pretty messed up consequences, like forcing trans men who are biologically female, but many of whom have huge muscles, full beards, and appear as men to use the women's bathroom and to use the women's locker room. And I think that would make women uncomfortable, if not unsafe. Okay, by this logic then, do you believe that those who identify as women should be able to enter any female bathroom in any space? Or are you seeing this as a kind of isolated issue when it comes to Congress? Well, I don't think it's an isolated issue when it comes to Congress.

I think it's something that clearly we have to hash out. And I think private businesses and organizations should be able to have their own rules. So I'm not saying that, like, at the blaze, they have to have gender-inclusive toilet. It's like, no, I'm a libertarian. It's your building. You should be able to have whatever policies you want. But generally speaking, I think with bathrooms, there is no need for this strict sex segregation of banning trans women from women's restroom and forcing trans men who appear male in many cases and pass as men into women's restrooms for bathrooms. I think locker rooms or nude spas or other areas like that where there's exposed nudity and other things, I think is much more nuanced and complicated.

and I think worthy of a different conversation. But banning people from bathrooms, to me, again, it's just pointless, and it's going to cause far more problems than it solves. So do you think that there should ever be a restriction against men going into a female bathroom? Well, I think people are more comfortable with these gender or sex segregated bathrooms, and I'm not here railing against that. And why do you think that is? Why do you think people are generally more comfortable with sex segregated bathrooms? Well, I think partially because of sex-based violence and violence against women, partially because of just the long history of gender separation. But I will just point out, though, that if you travel, if you go to Spain, if you go to Germany, if you go to all sorts of places, almost all of Scandinavia, you'll find public unisex bathrooms with stalls that men and women use.

And it's not leading to some epidemic in sex-based crime or gender violence. In fact, in many cases, it's much lower there than here. So I understand that people are more comfortable. That's why I'm not saying rip up the whole system. I'm just saying allow trans people to use the bathroom they want to use in most cases. But you acknowledge that one of the reasons that people are more comfortable in sex segregated spaces and not just people. We're talking specifically about women because no one's really afraid. No man is really afraid of the five foot four guy or actually female with a beard because he's been on testosterone for a few years coming into his.

bathroom. It is, of course, women who are justifiably nervous about the six-foot-two guy who happens to be wearing a skirt and lipstick coming into her bathroom, not only with her, but also with her 10-year-old daughter, also while she may be breastfeeding, also while she may be pumping, while she may be changing. She may be doing things that, of course, require privacy. That's why we have bathrooms. That's why we have stalls. She might be changing a diaper. There are a variety of very private and exposing things that women do in bathrooms. And there is a reason why we have long had sex segregated spaces. And actually, you acknowledged this because of the long history of gender-based violence, of sex-based violence that has existed. And these men who identify as women,

they're still men. Like, there is a reason for our own sports, for our own locker rooms, for our own bathrooms. It's not because it makes men more comfortable. It's because it makes women more comfortable. And your argument is basically, it's not just that we should allow so-called trans people into these bathrooms. The other side of that is that you are saying that women should be forced to share these very private spaces with men. I really don't care what Spain does or what Germany does. We don't live here. We don't live there.

We live here. And you are asking American women to sacrifice their own comfort, their own safety, and their own privacy and their own private. and their own privacy to share a bathroom with men because it makes some men more comfortable. And I just can't get on board with that. Well, no, I understand you're not going to get on board with that. But that's not what I'm asking because I'm actually coming at it from the same goal as you, which is the comfort and safety of women. I think we have very different ideas about how to get there.

I think what would make those girls' daughters uncomfortable is a burly, muscular man-appearing person with a full beard coming in and washing their hands next to them in the bathroom. I don't think washing their hands next to Sarah McBride, the transgender congressperson, is going to be nearly as uncomfortable as that. And I'm not here to discount anyone's fears about safety, but I am going to point out statistical realities. And the realities of gender-based violence and sexual-based violence don't happen in bathrooms except in most vanishingly statistically rare cases.

It's almost exclusively vast majority of the time in other venues, in other situations, not from strangers harassing them in back. bathrooms. Well, I think we can agree that we are against violence, but that doesn't mean it's true. We can, yes, that's exactly true. That's very relevant when it comes to transgenderism. There are men who feel that they are women, but they're not. And so we can't affirm an assent to their delusions by allowing them into women's bathrooms. It's not just a denial of women's privacy and safety. It's a denial of reality. And of course, we don't- You keep saying safety. Do you have any evidence of that? Yes. Well, let's look at these vanishingly small statistics. I think most of us,

would agree that we don't want violence in any context, whether it's in the bathroom or whether it's somewhere else and some other space. But I do think it's important to look at the faces and the people behind some of these instances that you are saying are rare. For example, when we're looking at Loudoun County schools in May 2021, a boy wearing a skirt assaulted two teen girls in the bathroom at two different schools and he was transferred multiple times for inflicting violence on these young women. These parents and these young female students, just young teenagers, had to give their testimonial of this violence

of being beaten by this young man in front of the school board. According to the New York Post in October 2002, a teen girl in Oklahoma was severely beaten by a transgender peer in the bathroom. Her mother, Teresa Gooden, reported the crime. According to Toronto's son, in 2018, Shane Jacob Green, who identifies as trans and goes by Stephanie was convicted of sexual assault after he dragged the 15-year-old female McDonald's employee into a bathroom stall and attacked her while she was cleaning the washroom. According to Metro

magazine in 2019 in Scotland, Katie, he goes by that. Dillotowski sexually assaulted a 10-year-old girl in a bathroom stall at a supermarket in 2014. So this goes way back. But actually, this story is still developing to this day. This person who identifies as Hannah Tubbs admitted to sexually assaulting a 10-year-old girl in the bathroom of a Denny's restaurant. At age 26, it was agreed that he would serve time at a juvenile facility since he was a minor when he assaulted this girl. According to the Independent in March 2022, Ian Bullock, who claims to identify as female, attacked a woman in the bathroom of Birmingham New Street Station.

And this was very easy to find. These stories are not hard to come by. They're easily searchable. And while you might say that this is rare, every single instance of one of these men identifying as a woman to enter into these very vulnerable, helpless spaces for women to assault them, they matter. And they're one too many. So if we can do anything to deter men who identify as women or men at all from entering into these very vulnerable spaces for women, I say that we should do that. Yeah, Ali, so let me be clear. Of course I believe they matter. Of course I believe those people should all be criminally prosecuted and put behind bars. And I feel terrible for the women harmed in all those situations. So let's not make that mistake that I don't care about that. But in the same way that it would be wrong for me to read you a list of Christian priests who've molested children and cast aspersions about all priests or say that priests shouldn't be allowed around children, the plural of anecdote is not evidence. And more broadly, to your deterrence. current's point, it's just not true that people who will assault women or girls in violation

of too many laws to count would have been deterred by different school rules about what bathrooms they could go into. You almost sound like a Democrat saying that gun-free zones will stop mass shootings. I'm pretty sure that if you're willing to break rape or murder or assault clause, you don't care about bathroom policies. The boy who identified as a girl. The boy who identified as a girl and wore a skirt, according to Loudoun County policies was allowed into women's restrooms. And of course, these girls were bullied and shamed into not

saying anything because young people today are told in order to be tolerant and inclusive, you have to acknowledge that this man wearing a skirt is really a girl and accept him into your spaces. And so absolutely, the policy had something to do with that. If there are consequences... There's already policies against assault. They already broke policies. Why wouldn't they've just broken the bathroom policy alley. Because they were allowed in there. They were allowed in there in the first place. But if they had been deterred, if they had been given consequences in the first place for even

entering into that space, they wouldn't have been there, Brad. And I think that you understand that. But again, you have already acknowledged that one of the reasons for sex segregated spaces is for the comfort and the protection and safety of women in light of the history of sex based violence. You have acknowledged that that is one reason why we have sex segregated spaces. You simply think that men who identify as women are the exception to that. And one other thing I want to say, because I don't believe in your analogy. Now, I'm not Catholic, and so you can't really get me with the whole Catholic priest thing. But I don't think that's a good analogy because it's not only

that we are saying that men who identify as women may violate these girls. I understand that not every man who identifies as a woman is going to inflict violence. upon a girl or a woman. It's not only that, though. It is in violation of reality. It is in violation of the truth. I think that there is a cost to saying that two plus two equals five. Now, you could say it doesn't really hurt you. It doesn't really harm you to say that two plus two equals five. Just say it. But I believe in violation of the rules of nature and the laws of reality, I think that there is a cost to that. Not only a human cost when it comes to the safety, and the protection of women and girls, but also to our ability to convene together as a society.

If we can't even agree that male and female exist, and there are societal implications to that, especially when it comes to intimate spaces like bathrooms and locker rooms, we really don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to anything else. Quick pause from that debate to tell you guys about Patriot Mobile. Americans are tired and frustrated by a stalling economy, inflation, endless wars, relentless assault on our values. Obviously, we are hoping that Trump puts an end or puts a pause on a lot of those things. But we have to do our part two. And part of that is supporting companies that align with our values rather than sending our dollars to companies that hate us and are actively working against us. Patriot Mobile is a Christian conservative wireless provider. They are on the front lines fighting for things like the First and Second Amendments, the Sanctity of Life are military and first responder heroes. So, you You can take a stand for conservative causes and put America first without compromising your service by switching to PatriotMobil. They have a 100% U.S.-based customer service team that will find the best plan for your needs.

You can keep your number, keep your phone, or you can upgrade. Go to PatriotMobile.com slash Alley. Get a free month when you use offer code Alley. PatriotMobile.com slash Alley. I do agree that male and female exist. And I think part of the problem here is that the very radical progressive view on trends issues is, is totally detached from reality. I'm not here denying that a trans woman is a biological male.

That is true. I'm saying that letting them live their life in many ways socially as a woman is not a threat to their safe, to the safety of others. Even if they come into my bathroom. Even if they use the bathroom next to me and my daughters, you're saying. Ali, you've probably used a bathroom alongside a trans person many times and not notice. You're acting like they go incognito. Okay. Like, I can see.

No, I probably haven't. I would have noticed. It's very, very noticeable. Yeah, you can always notice. Sometimes it's very noticeable. Sometimes it's not noticeable at all. It is most of the time. Next to Buck Angel or somebody with a beard and muscles in the women's room.

But that's the policy you're advocating for here. I am, I am advocating for women and men to be in sex separate spaces. Yes. And of course, I am against someone like Buck Angel, trying to change her gender and present as something that she is not. And so that's not really a gotcha to me. I do believe in sex separate spaces because I believe in the reality of sex. And you simultaneously say you believe that.

But at the same time, you think they should be able to, quote unquote, live their life, even if it infringes upon the rights to privacy of women. And that is the problem. If they do anything that infringes on your right to privacy, they should, like anyone else, like a man or a woman or a trans person or a non-transperson to be arrested of a crime. You don't believe that a woman has a right to her own space. Then you say that that infringes upon our privacy, but you're saying that I don't have the right to privacy in the bathroom, privacy against a man, which is why we have sex segregated

bathrooms in the first place. You're saying that women really don't have that right if a man who thinks he's a woman wants to come in our bathroom. I think if that man harasses you or bothers you or peeps in the stuff, all or does anything else, they should be arrested and criminalized. But no, I don't think you're victimized by washing your hands next to Sarah McBride. Okay. I don't.

Okay, but what if it is? What if it's a man who's not wearing a skirt? What if it's a man who looks fully like a man and he comes into the women's bathroom? Should that be okay? That's the problem. It really shouldn't. That's the problem with self-ID, the progressive policy on trans issues. I think there should be a rigorous process you need to obtain a gender recognition certificate

for transitioning gender. And it's relevant to this conversation. I want to know what should the process be to be women, female enough to be able to enter women's spaces like the bathroom? In Britain, before they instituted self-ID, which is the kind of nonsense you're describing, and I agree is absurd, where anyone can just declare the gender they feel like, they used to have to go through a process of several years of therapy and a confirmed medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, including living as their opposite sex, for years before they could obtain a gender recognition certificate that would allow them to say, use a public women's restroom. That is a process that's going to stop somebody from just putting on a wig one day and walking into the bathroom.

That wouldn't be allowed, but it's not going to end up in the perverse result where people who, for all intents and purposes, appear as the opposite sex, appear as male, are forced to use the women's room or women's people who appear as female are forced to use the male locker room, making many little boys uncomfortable potentially. I mean, it's just you're not concerned at all with the practical implications of the things you're suggesting. And I understand for you. It's about first principles. But you haven't.

I don't think you are. Okay. I'm very concerned with the practical implications of a lot. We don't have, we don't have that process that you're talking about. We do have, we do, listen, we do have self-identification right now. And so you're talking about a hypothetical one day if we have these processes to verify that man is really a woman and is not to threat a threat to women, which of course I completely disagree with because, again, you have arbitrary standards for becoming the opposite gender. And of course, that's a slippery slope. Not even the

slippery slope fallacy. It just is because all of those standards outside of biology are going to be arbitrary. Of course, that can be exploited and abused. But regardless, we don't have that. We do have a man who grew out his hair and wears lipstick and says that he's a woman entering into women's spaces. And so what you're talking about as absurd is actually happening. Are you talking about Sarah McBride? Yes, and you think that's okay. She hasn't gone through. All of these people that you're talking about that I listed haven't gone through that

process that you're saying needs to happen in order to legitimize someone's transgenderism. No, she hasn't gone through any kind of legal process in order to verify that she's really, quote, unquote, trans. This is actually a man who is dressing up like a woman, entering into women's spaces. And again, you do not believe that women have. have the right to be protected against that. The other question that I have... I don't think the public bathroom is an issue. Now, can I ask you a quick question, Ali? In the past five years, for example, in the Capitol in Congress, where they've had policies where all the trans women staffers who work for Democrats are allowed to use women's public

bathrooms, can you name one incident or assault that was perpetrated in the Capitol by a trans person over the last five years? I have no idea. Maybe Nancy Mace would know. But I think if she'd have one, she would have talked about it. Even if it hasn't already happened in Congress or in the Capitol building, doesn't mean that she does not have the right, that Mace does not have the right to stand up for herself. One other clarifying question that I have here is you said that you think that there should be nuance and maybe different kinds of regulations when it comes to locker rooms.

Tell me why, though, because you don't seem to think that this is a big issue in bathrooms where women are at least half naked. So tell me why locker rooms, if you believe that these so-called trans women should just be able to live their lives, why are locker rooms different? Because I completely understand that many women wouldn't want to be exposed to male genitalia in a locker room. Why is that, Brad? Why? Why do you think? Because it would make them uncomfortable.

Right. So if it makes him uncomfortable for men to be in bathrooms, why isn't that enough? Well, many women, it doesn't make them uncomfortable for trans women to be in women's bathroom. Hundreds of female Democratic members of Congress are comfortable with them. It doesn't make them uncomfortable for a man to change in front of them in a locker room either. But you're saying we should defer to the women who are uncomfortable with men changing in front of them in the locker room, right? And so why doesn't that apply to bathrooms too? Why is it different?

Well, because there's not routine nudity and exposure to other people in bathrooms with stalls. It's a different situation that calls for different roles. So you get to tell women what should make them uncomfortable and what? shouldn't. No, and you sound like a woke feminist. Are you going to dye your hair pink? My opinion's not invalid because I'm a male. I, the person who believes in the reality of gender in that women should have their own sex exclusive spaces speaking to the guy who doesn't actually believe women have the right to that. I don't think I'm the one who sounds. Yes, that's identity politics, Al. Brad, Brad, Brad, you cited it as an argument. Do you hear yourself? You said that they're listening to. Listen to. I know.

me, listen to me. You said that the reason why we should not allow men who identify as women into the locker room is because women might be uncomfortable with a man changing in front of them. That was your reason, not mine. And so I'm saying women also are uncomfortable with men peeing next to them in a stall. And you're saying that's not a good enough reason to keep those men out of women's bathrooms. I'm asking you to tell me the difference. You don't know the difference, which is why you are.

One involves being exposed to nudity, and one doesn't. That's a meaningful difference. And so I think you shouldn't be allowed to use a female locker room or changing room if you haven't had bottom surgery and you still have a penis. I think that's a reasonable restriction to have. But if women are uncomfortable in both cases, you're saying one discomfort is legitimate, one discomfort is not legitimate. And if you truly believe that so-called trans women should just be able to live their lives and enter the spaces that they want to, If your reason for allowing these men into bathrooms is because there's not enough statistical data that proves that sexual assaults happen in those bathrooms, then that should also apply to locker rooms.

But it's a double standard. It's cognitive dissonance that you really can not reconcile and that you haven't been able to reconcile. But you're citing female discomfort. I'm saying women are uncomfortable, rightfully so in both spaces. Women have a right to our privacy. We have a right. We have a right. women's spaces. We have a right to sex segregated spaces and that's the end of the story. And I'm very thankful Nancy Mace is pushing this. But I do appreciate you taking the time to come on. I appreciate you having these spirited debates as well, Ali. Thanks for having me. Thanks. Have a good day. All right, guys. Deep breaths. You made it through the debate. I told you a little stressful towards the end. Okay, we're going to read our last ad and then we'll have kind of maybe more lighthearted things towards

the end. It'll make us laugh and cry at the same time. Okay, first let me tell you about Birch Gold. The strategy remains the same even though Trump won the presidency. That strategy is that we have to diversify our savings. That's why it's important to buy gold from Birch Gold. So many things are out of our control, even out of Trump's control. It's important to have a safe haven for your savings. Birch Gold will help you convert an IRA or 401k into a an IRA and physical gold. The best news, it doesn't cost you a penny out of pocket. Just text Allie to 989898. Get your free info kit so you can learn more about Birch Gold and the services they offer. Right now through Black Friday, you'll receive a free one ounce silver eagle for every

$5,000 purchased. Text Allie to 989989. Claim your eligibility for free silver today. That's Allie to 9898-989. Okay, so all of this is happening during, or I guess after, what day is it? after transgender awareness week, November 20th, today is transgender day of remembrance, whatever that means. And so in light of this, there are so-called Christians or churches, as they call themselves across the country, conducting rituals to memorialize this day. Here's the United Methodist Church of Portland, calling on their transesters, sought one. We call to the transesters whose gender was celebrated, who are honored by your communities,

and given sacred roles as priestesses, shamans, and leaders. We call also to the transesters who are shunned and silenced, who know how to survive harsher times than these. we call on the transusters who fought for liberation and justice to bring us closer to the time when all can live their truth without fear. Okay. So it's just full-on paganism because it's not only this idea that a man can become a woman, which is a superstitious religious belief.

Don't let anyone tell you that's like a secular neutral idea that is a religious belief, that is this idea of dualism, that our body and our spirit are these dual entities and our body is ruled by our spirit's supreme transcendent knowledge and that who we really are is what we feel on the inside and our body, physical reality is really just arbitrary, is really just malleable. That is not the Christian perspective. The Christian perspective is that the body is part of what is being made in God's image. The body matters. The body is valuable to God.

It's so valuable that if you murder someone, according to Genesis 9,6, the only just punishment for that murder is execution is the death penalty. That's how much the body matters. even though the soul goes on forever, God had all kinds of laws and rules and regulation surrounding what his people did with his body. And of course, in the New Testament, we see these moral truths reemphasized by Jesus, sexual morality, the holiness of our physical lives is something that is prioritized in Christian doctrine.

And of course, we read that as Christians, our bodies, are dwelling places for the Holy Spirit. The body matters so much that we serve an incarnate Savior who came to earth and dwelt in the flesh, who became a man and died a bodily death on the cross and rose bodily. We believe in a future resurrection of the bodies as Christians. And so we believe in the importance of physical reality. we believe in the significance of biological reality. We believe in these biological binary distinctions of male and female. And yet in whatever you just watched, which is just straight

up paganism, again, they deny all of those beliefs. They deny scientific and biological reality. And they also deny the theological reality that we read in the very first chapter of the first book of the Bible in Genesis 1-27 that God made us male and female that is part of what it means to be made in God's image. There he creates not only gender, he also creates marriage. He creates the family. They are told through their biology to be fruitful and multiply. And so we are given not only a function, but a purpose. We are given a telos. And Christianity believes in this teleological view of the world, that how we are made tells us what we are to do, which tells us at least impart who we are. And so actually it's Christianity who has a much higher view of the body,

a higher view of science and biological reality than this paganism. And this is really Satanism. Like if you look at one of the symbols of Satan, Baphomet, he is part-fut. He is part-fet. female in body and part male. And so this idea of transgenderism really does have its roots in Satanism, in demonic ideas. This idea that to transcend the gender binary is somehow more divine and more powerful calling upon ancestors. That's necromancy. And that is absolutely forbidden in scripture. Israel was forbidden from doing that. Christians are also forbidden from doing that. You are trying to communicate with the dead, which is really just communication with demons. And so United Methodist Church, this is part of what the Methodist Church was split over,

people like this and those who still defend the reality of the gender binary. It's just full on Satanism. It destroys the body. It destroys the soul. It destroys the family. It destroys the innocence of children because children are always the unconsenting subjects of progressive social experiments. That's why so much of this ideology and the ideologues attached to it prey upon children. And I just want to remind you to go back, listen to my episodes with Genevieve Gluck, that the roots of transgenderism is really not about gender and how people feel about their identity. It's really about sex.

It's really about sexual desire. It's not really about gender dysphoria for most of these men. For most of these men, it started with an addiction to porn, with a humiliation fetish. And they actually enjoy other people being forced to play along with their humiliation fetish. And it's a dark thing and it's a dark world. But I actually do think it's important for you to understand that because you will have a right perspective of what we're dealing with and you will have even more sympathy for someone like Nancy Mace and you will drop any pretense and any feelings of cringe that you might have that

those of us who are conservatives, conservative Christians are too harsh about this. We are dealing in many cases with very, very bad actors who do want to infiltrate women's spaces to get to vulnerable women. I'm not saying this McBride person is that, but I'm saying this is a large part of this movement and we need to take it very seriously. Read my book, toxic empathy, where we have an entire chapter dedicated to the lie that trans women are women. And in these chaotic, crazy, deceitful times, the boldest thing that we can do is not lie and not assent to delusions. That is the Christian's responsibility. Be a refuge of clarity and courage. And by the way, telling the truth about this can change minds and hearts. I get sometimes you're not changing

anyone's mind by calling a man, he, if he identifies a woman, that's simply not true. We have sat down with people on this couch whose minds were changed either by me telling the truth about gender ideology or about someone in their family refusing to call them by the opposite sex pronouns. I can't tell you how many testimonies of detransitioners that I hear. hear who tell me that it was someone refusing to lie to them that ultimately changed their mind and heart or God used to change their mind and heart because of course he gets the credit. So speak the truth in love, speak it relentlessly. Remember, you are not nicer than God.

And God created the male and female. And if he's bold enough to say it in the first chapter or the first book of the Bible, the most loving thing that we can do is agree with him. All right. That's all we got time for today. Go, Nancy Mace. You're doing a good job. We'll be back here tomorrow.