Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1148 | ‘Trump Gaza:’ Idolatry or Strategy?

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

Today, we discuss the odd, AI-generated video President Trump posted to his social media that appeared to advertise "Trump Gaza," complete with a ... golden idol of Trump? People online were pretty mad about that, but at least the song was pretty good. To add fuel to the fire, Andrew and Tristan Tate have left Romania for the United States after the Trump administration pressured the Romanian authorities to relax the travel restrictions on the brothers. And David French came after us in a recent New York Times article for "turning against empathy" after "Toxic Empathy" became a national bestseller. Also, what is the proper response to a fussy baby on a plane, and why do older women always seem to be the ones upset about it? Share the Arrows 2025 is on October 11 in Dallas, Texas! Go to sharethearrows.com for tickets starting Friday, February 28. Buy Allie's new book, "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": https://a.co/d/4COtBxy --- Timecodes: (01:09) Share the Arrows Tickets on sale tomorrow! (02:17) AI “Trump Gaza” video (15:39) Is it safe for Christians to visit Israel? (26:17) Andrew Tate returns to the US (36:03) David French’s NYT hit piece against “Toxic Empathy”  (44:43) Babies on planes and at weddings --- Today's Sponsors: Seven Weeks - Experience the best coffee while supporting the pro-life movement with Seven Weeks Coffee; use code ALLIE at https://www.sevenweekscoffee.com to save up to 25% and help save lives. A’del — Try A'del's hand-crafted, artisan, small-batch cosmetics and use promo code ALLIE 25% off your first time purchase at AdelNaturalCosmetics.com Jase Medical — Go to Jase.com and enter code “ALLIE” at checkout for a discount on your order. --- Related Episodes: Ep 1147 | Human Egg Farms, Switched Babies & the Dark Web of Big Fertility | Guest: Katy Faust https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1147-human-egg-farms-switched-babies-the-dark-web/id1359249098?i=1000696364187 Ep 1124 | Is the Church to Blame for Andrew Tate? https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1124-is-the-church-to-blame-for-andrew-tate/id1359249098?i=1000684295317 ---   Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

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How should we react to it? Plus, we've got some debates that were sparked on acts about children. in weddings, children, in airplanes. Are people really safe to go to Israel? Oh, and by the way, we're responding to David French's mention of me and the New York Times. We are getting to all of this in less than an hour today on Relatable. It's brought to be by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com Code Alley. That's good ranchers.com code alley. Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far. Okay, we've got a lot to get into today. but first let me remind you. Share the Aeros tickets for the general public are available tomorrow.

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feeling courageous because of the fellowship and the worship and the teaching and all of it. This is really a one of a kind event and I'm just so thankful to the Lord for it. So join us as Share the Arrows 2025. Go to share the arrows.com. All right. Let's talk about this Trump Gaza video, baby, because everyone has been messaging me about it, like everyone. I've gotten so many messages asking me to please respond to this Trump Gaza AI generated video

that Trump posted, I think he posted on truth social, but he also posted on his Instagram. And it caused a lot of confusion asking people, or people asking, what the heck? Is this real? Is he going to delete this? Surely Trump did not post this. And if you think that Trump did not genuinely post this, I just wonder if you have been paying attention to Donald Trump over the past few years. Of course Donald Trump posted this. Here it is. It's Sot one. Okay. Brie was bopping over there.

I was really trying not to because I can't sign off. I can't sign off on this video. Okay. Let's just go through some images before we dissect President Trump's brain to see exactly what was the motivation for posting this. So if you're just listening, you're really missing out. You need to watch this on Spotify. Our video is on Spotify now or you need to watch it on YouTube. Okay. So there are just a few parts of this video. First of all, the lyrics, Donald's coming to set you free, bringing the light for all to see. no more tunnels, no more fear. Trump Gaza is finally here. Trump Gaza's shining bright, golden future, brand new light, feast and dance. The deed is done. Trump Gaza number one. Brea is still laughing. So we've got this picture of Donald Trump. This is full screen five. And the Donald Trump balloon as well. This is literally a big golden statue in the middle of like what looks like Miami. We've got a little

Palestinian child who is holding Donald Trump's golden head that is also a balloon. Okay. And then this is the part. This is what I thought was really weird. The Elon Musk inclusion in this. Okay. Full screen seven. We've got Elon Musk.

I guess presumably eating some hummus. Some hummus. But I think maybe in Palestine they would say hummus. I don't know. And then we've also got Elon in the next, like in the other picture of this, he's walking and there's literally dollar bills. I don't know. Some currency, some form of money that is raining from the heavens. Okay.

Then I'm really disturbed by this. I'm like, Trump, did you watch this whole thing? Here's the next full screen. Full screen eight, please. We might have to put a bar over Donald. Trump's nipples because he's got this shirtless picture of him and BB Netanyahu sipping cocktails on the beach slash pool. It's unclear because it's a beach by the pool. Okay. And it's it's I, I don't know what else to say about that. Okay. And then we have who are these are

Are these transsexuals? Okay? See, when I first watched this to the untrained eye, you might think that this was just, this is, you all can't, it's not picking up on the microphone. The whole room is dying at these images right now. These appear to be men with beards with the bodies of women, genuine women, okay? We're not talking about like the cross-sex hormone nonsense. We've got bearded ladies who are scantily clad, very buxom ladies, scantily clad on the beach of Trump, Gaza. Okay.

There's also another part where Donald Trump is like at a nightclub and he's like flirting with this scantily clad lady and dancing. Okay. So it's all very strange. I could not begin to tell you what exactly is going on here, but I can give you. some context. So you'll remember a couple weeks ago, Trump did a press conference with Benjamin Netanyahu, where he proposed that the U.S. could just take over the Gaza Strip. So that was February 4th. He's proposed relocating Palestinian residents to neighboring countries with the goal of providing them with safe, stable living conditions, suggesting that the U.S. rebuild war-torn Gaza,

the 141 square mile Palestinian enclave bordered by Egypt, Israel, and the Mediterranean Sea. It's home to about 1.8 million Palestinians. White House Press Secretary, Caroline, leave it, added a day later that Palestinian displacement would be temporary and that no U.S. troops or tax dollars would be involved in Gaza. So it's unclear how exactly that would work. Most of the response that I've seen from conservatives is like,

yeah, I don't really want to do that. I don't really want America to be involved in that. I don't know if that's going to create a long-term solution. But Donald Trump, like, you have to remember that he is a developer, that he is thinking, how can I make this better? How can I make this more prosperous? How can I make this more comfortable for people? He kind of sees this, I think, as a project.

But also, it is probably some kind of geopolitical strategy that we don't, completely understand. It almost seems like the Solomon baby parable, like who really cares about this land? Because, you know, there's been the negotiations about a two state solution and what that would look like over many years. And Trump has promised to bring peace to this region. I think that that's what he's trying to communicate here. Honestly, I'm not even trying to make excuses for the man. I don't feel obligated to do that. I don't think that he, watched this whole thing and like thought about the symbolism, everything that's being depicted through these AI cartoons. I just don't think that he was thinking that hard about it. Although

I understand the concerns, particularly about the golden statue there, I mean, if you look at the biblical references to golden statues as idols, the first thing that comes to mine is Nebuchadnezzar, Shadrach, Meshach, Bedniko. I also think I just read this passage yesterday or the day before yesterday where the silly Israelites who represent all of us in our stupid sinful rebellion when Moses was away a little too long to get the law from God, they were like, you know what we should do? We should probably worship a golden calf.

And so they gave up their gold jewelry to Aaron. You know, Aaron, like Moses's brother, who is supposed to be, like, standing in his stead while Moses is gone getting the law, he's like, yeah, give me your jewelry, sure. And I'll turn it into golden statues for you to be able to worship. And so golden statues and golden statues as representations of power or a God or a leader are not depicted positively throughout scripture. Psalm 139, 15 through 18, the idols of the nations are silver in gold. The work of human hands. They have mouths but do not speak. They have eyes but do not see. They have ears but do not hear, nor is there any breath in their mouths. Those who make them

become like them. So do all who trust in them. Now you might say this video ain't that deep. And I agree with you, but is it a good look? Is it something that we should applaud? I don't think any part of this project is something that I support or should necessarily applaud. And I thought the video really was just weird. More than theologically troubling, which you could definitely make a case that it is. All idolatry is wrong and troubling. I just thought that it was weird. But it's also just kind of Trump. Like he probably just thought that it was funny. He probably got a kick out of it. And he decided to post it. And again, just remember he likes to build things.

He likes things to be gold and he likes things to be lavish. And he also likes to position himself as a strong person who is going to be able to, like, rescue, save and rebuild those who are struggling. Israel is an ally. He probably sees this as a message somehow of defense of them. Or maybe it's just all a big joke. I don't think any of us know for sure what Donald Trump is thinking. Bree, did you have any additional thoughts on that? I know that you love this song.

And it's now the soundtrack of her life. Yep, yep. No, I just kind of want to know, like, for the bearded ladies, I want to know if they input that prompt or if the AI just gave it to them and they were like, okay, that works. Also, three images of Elon. Why? Yeah. Why so many of him eating?

Yeah. I don't know. Just odd. choices, I guess. And I just want to know if they did that deliberately or not. Yeah. No, I think the input is a great question. Like, we need some bearded women. You know, other people are pointing out. And this is someone who, I forget his name. I saw it this morning. He's a conservative. He worked in Trump White House last time, but he's a Christian who tries to evangelize to Muslims. And he was just saying, like, this is, this is tough. Like, this is tough. This is not, obviously, these are not the values of the people who

would be living there, even if we want them to convert to Christianity. Like, this is not a helpful message in that regard either. Yeah. And I was telling you before we started that a lot of these images look like the UAE, United Arab Emirates and Dubai. And that is not the place that is representative of the Middle East. And in fact, Dubai, fun fact, is like 90% non-Arabs. It's like all immigrants there. So that's not even the Middle East. So I feel like, yeah, someone who's actually Middle Eastern and watching this is probably like, yeah, the values are an issue. Also, it doesn't even look culturally what this place could look like if, you know, there were actually freedom there. So I know maybe we're taking it too seriously.

But yeah, I think that's a good point. Yeah, I don't know that I want to export materialism. Of course, I want freedom for them. I want them to be free from Islamic oppression. And I do want them to have economic prosperity and freedom of speech and all of that. I think that's beautiful. I don't know that I want them to have like a golden Trump tower with, you know, euros or whatever. Follow them, whatever the currency is falling from the sky.

Yeah. Yeah, a little strange. Okay. Let me pause tell you about our first sponsor for the day. And that is seven weeks coffee. I love seven weeks coffee. It tastes so good. It's really high quality.

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Both of them are controversial, but we're talking about Gaza. Both of them have to do with Muslims. Both of them have to do with danger to women. Yes, there's so many commonalities here. So it just feels natural. So I saw some chatter yesterday on X about Christians. being persecuted in Israel. And Christians are persecuted everywhere. And I care very much about Christian persecution. We talked about that on the show this week. What's happening in the Congo, Christians are the

most persecuted group around the world. And persecution doesn't look the same in the United States, but just ask Jack Phillips or Lori Smith. I mean, Christian persecution happens here in the United States as well. And so I saw some people saying Christians are persecuted in Israel. And Israel, and which prompted me to say, well, Israel is the only place that I would feel safe as a woman and as a Christian traveling in the Middle East. I really didn't think that this tweet would get that much attention, but it has thousands and thousands of replies, which I can't even see all of them. I don't know how that works. I can't even see most of the replies. But thousands of replies, extremely angry, people saying this is not true.

You could go to Jordan, you could go to UAE, you could go to Dubai, you could go to Lebanon. There are certainly places where a lot of Christians exist, and you could go there. Other people saying, well, actually, Christians are spat upon. If you go to Israel, it's not safe to go to Israel. The Palestinian Christian population in Israel is not safe. That's completely untrue. And then people saying, you're just a shill for the Jews and you're just getting paid by Israel, which is so funny.

because it's not true. I don't think, I, I don't have any connection whatsoever to Israel. There is zero, there are zero Jewish people signing any checks for Ali Beth Stucky. Okay. I made a statement that happens to be true. And Bree has been to Israel and all over the Middle East as a Christian woman. So I wanted to bring her in just to hear what she thinks about my post. Was it fair? Was it accurate, was it unfair, you can be honest. Tell me. The only thing that I maybe would have added was can safely travel alone. I would have added alone. Most countries, I totally agree. I wouldn't even say you can safely travel without maybe like a local companion who like can, you know, make sure. Both countries in the Middle East. Yes, yeah, who can make sure that you're

not getting into trouble or walking into the wrong area. but I have traveled to Jordan. I've traveled to Lebanon. I've traveled to the UAE to all of the safe countries in the Middle East. And I know Christians who live there who are very open about the fact that those countries have a veil of freedom. They are meant to look to Westerners like they're free. They're more free than they are. And underneath that is all of these things that you can get in trouble for, all of these.

I mean, they obviously have a certain view of women that we don't hear. And so those things still exist there. And I think that makes them kind of an inherently not pleasant place to be as a woman, as a Christian woman. So I would say I would have never gone to any of those countries by myself. I did feel safe going to a lot of them with someone and knowing that there were local Christians there who, you know, were kind of working with us. Yeah. But if I were going on vacation, no, I wouldn't go by myself. Would you go? Would you feel safe going to Israel by yourself as a woman? Yeah. Yeah. And the reason why is because, well, there's a couple reasons why, but one of the main ones is every time I've been to Israel, I have been astounded by how much diversity there is. And I know that sometimes used as a bad word, but there, it really felt like a freedom. There are so many different kinds of people there who are just kind of coexisting. There are Arab Muslims who are professors and politicians there. And you should ask, are there Jewish diplomats that live in Palestine under Muslim rule?

Yep. Spoiler alert now. There aren't any juice there. So there's just so much more diversity where you feel like you're not like the only foreigner there. So already it's kind of like a little bit less stressful of a situation. But yeah. No, they just don't, they think about people differently. think about Americans differently there. They think about Christians differently there. And I will say there is a little bit, I wouldn't say hostility, but they're trying to preserve a Jewish state. And so if you're trying to move there as a Christian, you'll probably get some pushback.

You would probably get pushed back also moving to those Muslim countries. You will. In fact, it's almost impossible in a lot of those places. But yeah, you get a little bit of pushback to do that in Israel, but to visit. There's tension. probably. Yeah, yeah, a little bit. But to visit, they love Americans visiting there. It makes a lot of money for them because there's a lot of tourism. But also the people there are just really nice to Americans and they're very nice to Christians. And so I just don't know where that

narrative is coming from that they are like, they'll spit on you if you go there. Some groups of people are a little bit more extreme. Let's talk about that for a second. Because I remember this video going around maybe about a year ago and my replies are filled with this one instance. And that tells me, though, that if this is the only instance you can find and you're saying it over and over again, that this is probably not pervasive. But it is a real video of what looked like Hasidic Jewish people in Israel spitting upon a priest or spitting near Christians who I suppose were tourists. And people are saying, look, this is what happens if you are a Christian and you go to Israel. But you told me something about this in this situation that I thought was interesting? Yeah. I have a family member who

lives in Tel Aviv and this has been an ongoing thing that we have talked about. This is a group of people who are pretty universally, I will say, disliked in Israel. I think the majority of people in Israel are pretty secular Jews for the most part. And they treat them the same way. The Hasidic Jews treat them the same way. So it's not just that if you're a Christian, you're there. It's this group of people just doesn't really like anyone who's not them. And there's a lot of, you know, there's vitriol because they use religious exemption to get out of military service, which everyone in Israel serves. Male and female.

Yeah. Yeah. So most people don't really like those people there to begin with. And so I don't think it's fair to use that group of people, that very specific group of people and say, look, this is how you're treated in Israel. Well, that's a specific group of people within Israel that, yeah, might treat you like that if you run into them, I guess, and say something. But is that not the case in America in some places do? Go to Portland. Yeah. And that's not representative of how you're treated in America in general. So it's just kind of silly. If you're openly Christian in some places in Portland or San Francisco or

even Austin or Seattle, I mean, you could face harassment. But we still wouldn't say America is unsafe. you cannot be a Christian. Don't go to America if you're a Christian. And yet there are places where it is pretty unsafe to be openly Christian in the United States. So it's just kind of an uneven application of the rules, I would say. And then, of course, people saying, well, I got the left and the right all riled up about this. People say, well, white women feeling safe shouldn't determine our foreign policy. Just because you as a woman feel safe doesn't mean that we should be sending all of our weaponry and all of our treasure to Israel.

Okay, here's an IQ test for you. Can you address the substance of what someone says without projecting an imaginary argument onto it and then refuting that imaginary argument? That's called a straw man where you have just created this figment of your imaginative. imagination that you have just created this fake argument and you are trying to destroy that. Like if you have trouble finding your brain, I will link arms with you. We will go down the yellow brick road together. And I will personally ask the wizard to give you back your brain. And then maybe we can have a conversation about this.

I never said that we should be putting Israel first. That's not what I believe about foreign policy. I am all the way America first. I think it is a very worthy debate to ask where should we be sending our foreign aid? Should we be sending foreign aid? I never made any comment about what our foreign policy should be with Israel, or maybe we should deprioritize American interests and send taxpayer dollars over there. I never made that argument.

I'm just saying, like, when I look at this situation from the perspective of a Christian, but really as an American as someone who comments on the news and everything, gosh, would I want more Israelis or more Palestinians or more Saudi Arabia's? Like would I, which ideology would I rather have win or spread? And it's really not that complicated. But again, if your position is we shouldn't have a dog in the fight at all because you don't agree with either side or you don't think America should be involved. I think that is a position worth defending and worth debating. What I am confronting is the silly moral relativism of, well, both sides are equally bad. And Israel is just as mean to Christians and to outsiders, as Palestine is, as the Muslim world is, that's just not true.

It's just not true. You're a weirdo for thinking that. And it's not reality. And that's the only point that I wanted to make. And now I want to talk about Andrew. and also controversial subject. Because Andrew Tate apparently is being released from Romanian custody and possibly coming to the United States. And this is after Trump has basically pressured Romania to release them. And so let's talk about this a little bit. And we'll also get Bree's take on this before we get into our next ad. Andrew Tate and his brother Tristan have left Romania and a row.

reportedly heading to the United States after prosecutors lifted travel restrictions that were in place due to their 22 arrest for rape, human trafficking, money laundering, and organized crime charges. Many are suggesting the restrictions were lifted due to pressure from the Trump administration. According to their lawyer, the brothers left Romania Thursday morning and are flying to Florida. Now, earlier this month, the Financial Times reported that Trump's administration had pressed Romanian authorities to lift travel restrictions on tape. first in a phone call, then when Trump's special envoy, Rick Cornell, met Romania's foreign minister at the Munich Security Conference in Germany. I just don't understand this. I don't understand using any political capital whatsoever on the Tate Brothers.

I know that they're pro-Trump. I know they say things that we agree with. We've done entire episodes detailing all of their confessions, the confessions to the crimes that they are being accused of. And so we don't have to go through all of these things now. but they have admitted to being pimps. They have admitted to rape. They have admitted to abuse. They have admitted to having sex with statutory rape of minors. We have played those videos.

We have looked at those transcripts. Okay. Why waste any political capital on the Tate brothers? I thought we were deporting sex criminals. I thought we were deporting the rapist. What did Donald Trump say a few years ago? Oh, they're not sitting their best. Okay, Romania is not sending their best.

I don't want the Tate Brothers here, okay? And I don't want us applying pressure to countries to try to release the Tate Brothers who have admitted on tape to a lot of what they are being charged with. Okay, I've got more on that. But first, let me pause. Tell you about our next sponsor. That's Adele Natural Cosmetics. I love Adele Natural Cosmetics.

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no fake fragrances or chemicals or anything like that. I also love their makeup. When I'm not in studio, I'm wearing their moisturizing foundation and their blush and their highlighter. It's all so good. Plus, this is a pro-life Christian company, family owned, and they make all of their stuff by hand. so support them go to adele natural cosmetics.com use my code alley for 25% off your first time purchase that's adele natural cosmetics.com code alley okay a spokesperson for romania's foreign ministry told cnnon on thursday that there was no pressure in no solicitations in the discussion so maybe it's not true people are surmising that but maybe it's not true romania said no there's been no pressure whatsoever from the Trump administration. Okay, he said, she said, uh, this spokesperson claims that

Grinnell merely stated that he was interested in the fate of the brothers. Still, what a thing to bring up. And a statement Thursday, Romanian prosecutors stressed that only the travel restrictions had been lifted while all other obligations remain in effect, including their requirement to appear before judicial authorities whenever summoned. So they've been on house arrest for a long time. They have been arrested, charged with rape, human trafficking, money laundering, organized crime charges. Andrew and Tristan have a deadline from their prosecutor to return from the U.S. to Romania by March 25th. According to judicial sources, Florida Attorney General James Uthmeyer just launched a preliminary investigation into the Tate Brothers after their arrival.

in Florida. So he said, early this morning, I directed my office to work with our state law enforcement partners to conduct a preliminary inquiry into these individuals. Florida has zero tolerance for human trafficking and violence against women. If any of those alleged crimes trigger Florida jurisdiction, we will hold them accountable. Yeah, that's what I like to hear. None of this weird, conservative pandering to the Tate brothers who are not conservative in any sense. Oh, they said something mean about.

feminism grow a brain cell. Governor Ron DeSantis said this morning that Florida does not welcome Andrew and Tristan Tate after they are flying back from Romania. Here he is saying that. The reality is, no, Florida is not a place where you're welcome with that, with those, that type of conduct in the air. And I don't know how it came to this. We were not involved. We were not notified. I found out through the media that this was something that was happening. Love him. Oh, Ron DeSantis, he's just a great guy, great leader. This is, yes, this is the line that you draw.

This is the position that we should have. Trump's lawyer, one of Trump's lawyers, Lena Haba, currently serving as the counselor to the president of the United States. She appeared on Biddy Johnson's show last month, along with Andrew Tate, saying that she was a big fan, that she sympathizes with Tate. I think we played that clip at the time. others or I think are rightly saying he's an enemy of the movement of conservative values. Samuel Say, my friend, who always has good commentary, said Andrew Tate is still a pimp.

He's made some people on the right sell themselves for him. Good call. It's not just that he's getting women to sell themselves for sex. He is also getting so-called conservatives to sell their values for what? I don't even know. Is it even money? Is it even just to be contrarian? I don't know what motivates people.

Maybe they just really like them. Like I think you can simultaneously say, okay, some of the things that he said are true. And I agree with that. And you could even say you understand why he scratched some itching ears who are angry about the feminization of society in general and the emasculation of men. Sure. You can say all that and say, but he's not the answer. And he would, if you scale Andrew Tate's behavior, we're living in barbarism. and we shouldn't want that.

Even aside from the biblical morality of it. I mean, again, you just go back to yesterday's conversation with Katie Faust. You cannot get away from the fact that God's ways are better, that one man, one woman, in the context of marriage, raising children, that that should be the ideal. And anyone like Andrew Tate, who is a serial pimp, who is a Muslim, who believes in all of the, uh, radically anti-women aspects of Islam should not be held up as any kind of hero in any way. And zero political capital should be spent on him if it is indeed being spent by him. All right. Do you have anything to add there, Bree, with Andrew Tate?

I think you said at all. You think I covered it? There's so much to say about Andrew Tate. So much to say. And we've covered it a lot on our show. I just, I really hope that Donald Trump is not using any leverage to try to help them out. I mean, I don't want them to, you know, have to bear false accusations either, even if I don't like them. I want there to be truth and justice, but like, let that justice play out.

Yes. It does bother me a little bit that one of his lawyers is a fan. That's like strong language for someone. She said that publicly. But I don't know, I think there are a lot of people who believe the right thing about this. And so I'm not like super concerned. But I don't know. We'll see.

Also, this is a little bit unrelated. But did you see him tweet that because Ariana Grande is now so skinny, he's no longer interested in sleeping with her? Oh. So, because she was offering, of course. Her strategy works. Okay. Yeah. We're all going on.

OZMPIC. Yeah, that's what everyone has to do. Okay. OZMPIC, the anti-Andrew Tate drug. Yeah. All right. Just a little fun fact. Wow.

That is really weird. That is a weird, weird thing to say. Okay. We've got a discussion topic. Should we talk about David French? Should we talk about children on airplanes? It's so difficult. It's so difficult to know.

All I'll say is this about David French, okay? or we're talking about cry babies in both instances. But let's start with crybaby David French, who wrote this article in the New York Times that says David French, or okay, so this is the title by David French. Behold the strange spectacle of Christians against empathy. And then he goes on to cite my book and to cite Joe Rigney's book and basically saying this is all terrible. and this is just showing this post-Christian evangelical movement that cares more about Donald Trump that has no compassion for people, that doesn't love people, that doesn't love the poor, help the poor. And this is after, by the way, Russell Moore, I was going to say Russell Brandt, but Russell Moore called me a 20th century German soldier,

a.k. a Nazi, because I rightly said that the passage where Jesus says, whatever you do to the least of these my brothers you do unto me, is actually about persecuted Christians, not the world's poor. That is absolutely true. I am not the person who came up with that idea. There are years and years of very sound theological scholarship on that particular verse, interpreting it in just that way. But Russell Moore basically, and he's friends with David French, basically made the same argument that, oh, these Christians who are pro-Trump have no love. And of course, David French, just like a lot of the people, most of the people who are very angry about the title of my book, misrepresenting it. It's either lazy or it's purposeful misrepresentation. Either way, it's wrong. So he says at the same time, hard right Christians,

hard right. Again, I would love for David French to come on and like what exactly, what policy wise, issue wise, do you disagree with me on? Do you disagree with me on the definition of gender? Do you disagree with me on immigration? Let's hear it. I want to hear like what is your, what's your plan? What's your proposal for immigration? Where do we agree and disagree? Do you disagree with me on marriage? Do you disagree with me on justice? Like what makes me hard right versus just a standard conservative? But when you're right in the pages of the New York Times and as he is inched further and further left, everyone to his right becomes hard right for holding ideas that I would say he probably even held on to 10 years ago. So hard right Christians began to turn against the very idea of empathy. Last year, popular right wing, podcaster, Ali Beth Stucky, published a bestselling book. It was bestselling, thank you, called Toxic Empathy, How Progressives Exploite Christian Compassion, and then a right-wing theologian, Joe Rigney, published a book called Sin of Empathy. He says these attacks are rooted in the idea that progressives emotionally manipulate evangelicals

into supporting causes they would otherwise reject. For example, if people respond to the foreign age shutdown and the stopwork orders by talking about how children might suffer and die, then they're exhibiting toxic empathy. So close, but so far, David French, that is not exactly what toxic empathy is. And you can just read the book. It's a quick read and you can learn what toxic empathy is. It is not simply bringing up the negative consequences of an action. It is failing to bring up the victims on the other side of the moral equation.

So it could be toxic empathy if you said, hey, if you end this program, if you stop paying, this particular program that feeds these children over there, then these children will die. If you are saying that to ignore the people on the other side of the moral equation, if, for example, that program was also funding, I don't know, abortion in the same place or gender transition surgeries in the same place or forced sterilization in the same place. And you are only focusing on one particular victim in order to make your case that could be a form of toxic empathy that is used as emotional manipulation to get you to support a certain cause by ignoring everyone else on the other side of the emotional or the moral equation.

It's really not that complicated when we do abortion. Toxic empathy looks like only focusing on the plight of the woman, ignoring the baby that abortion murders. When it comes to gender, it is focusing on the plight of the person who feels like they were born in the wrong body and ignoring the women and the girls whose spaces and rights are violated and the children whose bodies are mutilated. When it comes to marriage, it is focusing on the desires of the adults who want to be in a union and ignoring the pain that is caused to purposely motherless and fatherless children. When it comes to immigration, it is only focusing on the plight of the person who is fleeing violence from Honduras and wants to leave here, but ignoring Lake and Riley and Casey. Steynly, when it comes to justice, toxic empathy looks like only focusing on the criminal who

really wants to be released from prison, or maybe you feel should be released from prison, but ignoring all of the unnecessary victims that have endured violence because of people being released from prison too early. So that is toxic empathy. It ignores both reality and morality. And Christians are called to more than empathy. We are called to the truth in love. empathy is untethered by the truth. It simply feels how someone feels. So if you feel so deeply how someone feels that you affirm their lies, you validate or support their sin or you advocate for destructive policies, your empathy has turned toxic. And that's why Christians are to be tethered by the truth. Love is tethered by the truth. First Corinthians 13, 6, love never rejoices in

wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. So love defined by the God who is love, 1 John 4-8, is always inextricably intertwined with the truth. That's why Christians are called to true love, this truth and love dichotomy, which is better than empathy, certainly better than toxic empathy. And look, I know I call David Francho cry baby. Maybe that was too mean. I know I'm going to have someone probably say something about how that wasn't nice. But look, he's basically saying that I'm a cruel monster because I'm against all forms of empathy that is not what I argue in my book. I argue for something much realer and deeper and more sacrificial than this superficial performative. And yes, sometimes dangerous empathy that is hoisted upon us by the empathy mongers.

And he's not stupid. I know he knows that, which means this is actually malicious. It's a malicious attempt just like Russell Moore's was to paint me as evil. And thankfully, most people aren't going to buy that. So I'm actually being really nice by calling him nothing more than a crybaby. I also think he's being a liar, which is wrong. We can just disagree, David French. You don't have to go here.

Okay, we can just disagree. I'm happy to have you on. We can have a very robust discussion. I bet there's a lot we agree on, actually. But, you know, you're not going to get pushed back in the pages of the New York Times and all the people who read the New York Times will take what you say and they will think someone like me is uniquely dangerous. The only reason you Russell Moore and David French think that I'm uniquely dangerous need to paint me as some kind of far right person is because

you know the women in your churches are listening to me and that scares you. Too bad. All right. We've got one more conversation and discussion to have. Let me tell you about our last sponsor for the day. And that is Jace Medical. So Jace Medical offers emergency medical supply kits, either their Jace case, which is an emergency supply of antibiotics that you might need for the most common infections, can't get to the pharmacy or for whatever reason, you just can't get that prescription. You want those antibiotics on hand. Also, you can get their Jace Daily case that is a year-long supply of the prescriptions that you and your family rely on. And there's all kinds of things that go on with the supply chain, natural disasters that could cause some kind of

delay in the prescriptions that you actually need to live. So go ahead, get that emergency stash. It's a really great way to take care of your family. Their Jace Go case is being given away right now. They're doing a giveaway on their website. This is a travel Jace case. So go to jace.com and enter their giveaway or go ahead and make your purchase and use my code Alley for a discount. That's jays.com code Alley. Okay, I've been wanting to talk about this because this tweet also that I posted, this post on X. I will never get used to that language. Also got more of attention and responses than I anticipated. So I thought it'd be a good discussion topic on this show. So this is, this is what I said.

And please don't hear what I'm not saying. Okay. This is really hard I know on the internet to like understand that someone is saying something in general or in principle and not trying to apply it to every single person. So, but this is what I said. I said, for as long as I live, I promise to never be the old woman on the airplane who glares at your kids for making noise. I will always be the one to smile at them, tell mom and dad they're doing a good job and see if I can help. Our kids travel really well, but every negative interaction we have with them while flying has been with an older lady. Yesterday, our 18-month-old fussed during takeoff and the woman in front of us made a huge, embarrassing show of plugging her ears and rolling her eyes. That is true. She literally,

guys, I can give you a visual. She was going like this. I'm not kidding. And we were like, I was kind of diagonal. Like husband was holding her. And he gets so irritated by people like that. I wanted to be like, are you going to be okay? Are you going to be okay? And her husband was like, it's fine. It's fine.

Whatever. And she just kept on turning around. And like our baby is an angel baby. And she has traveled so much, like so many flights. But takeoff is hard. And plus it was during nap time. and so we really wanted her to sleep, but she was a little fussy and takeoff. She was great. The rest of the flight takeoff and landing was a little tough. That's just like, that's, that's normal. So she made this

huge embarrassing show. She was talking to her husband about it. And then I probably told you all this story. This was a few months ago where I was, it was just my husband and I and our youngest. I think it was just the three of us traveling this time. And he was kind of shushing her down the aisle trying to get her to fall asleep. That would make everyone happy. Parents happy the most. And this woman who literally had a dog that yapped on the flight in her lap, looked at my husband, wasn't even, she wasn't even sitting next to us. She was like a few rows ahead of us and said, get it away from me. Get it away from me. And my husband was like, you didn't just call my husband it or my, you didn't just call my baby it, did you? And she actually got in trouble with the flight

And they were like, you need to come down. They paid for their seats. You paid for your seats. The baby is fine. You need to chill out. So I think that these people who act more childish than children, we need to examine what is really going on in this generation. Because we blame Gen Z. We blame millennials for this push towards progressivism.

But I just wonder if feminism really did a number on a lot of the baby boomer and silent generation women. Now, I will say 100% honestly that this is not true at all of my kids' grandparents. Like my kids, they won the lottery when it comes to grandparents who are wonderful with children who love my kids so much, who would be super sweet to kids on an airplane. And of course, I've met lots of older women who are really sweet. One time when my middle was two, she sat in my two-year-old sat in the middle and then this older lady was sitting next to her, my husband on the other side of her. And the older lady was so sweet to her, like showed her pictures of her dog.

And so I'm not making a generalization of everyone. I'm just saying every negative interaction I have had has been an older woman. And from the replies that I got, it seems like this is really common. And I want to know what's going on. Are you far removed from when your children were little and you just don't remember? Or are you, you don't have children and grandchildren yourself? Is it an entitled kind of attitude? And look, I'm not talking about kids that are like running around being reckless, parents aren't disciplining them, parents aren't paying attention doing anything.

I understand why that can be frustrating. But these people who feel entitled to a child-free existence, it's insane to me. You are entitled to a childless life. Like if that's how you want to create your life in your home, your private life, you were entitled to that. I think that's not a good idea. I think if you have the option to have children, you should have children. They make your life very rich and very full and very joyful, hard in some ways, but totally worth it. But you are not entitled to a child-free world.

Okay? If you are going to take public transportation, then you are going to have children. And really, children, other human beings have more of a right to be there than your dog, than your canine 100%. Okay? And so this world that prioritizes pets and plants and professions and profound. professions over children. It's very disordered. And I think it shows up sometimes in the attitude of older people. What debris do you think I'm being too harsh here? I mean, I don't have the same

experiences because I don't currently have children. But no, I think that that's true. I think that that's true in a couple different spheres also. I see that like in my parents' neighborhood in HOAs and things like that. So yeah. I mean, like I said, I don't have a ton of experience with this, but I think that you're probably right. Yeah. Yeah.

It also, sorry, it also I think is true that older people are more likely to be like annoyed by things like that because they're the ones that do not come like on airplanes with headphones and things like that. The rest of us understand there are going to be other people on the plane and probably kids. So we prepare ourselves for that. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. So that might contribute. I just want to remind you, too, that there is no person on that plane that wants the child to stop crying more than the mom in death. No person is more stressed out and more on edge with their nerves frayed than the parents of the child who is crying. I promise, I promise you that. And no one likes to hear a baby crying.

It's not like we think, oh, well, you should just love this. This should be music to your ears. It is music to no one's ears. But just like give a break. And I still, every comment that I've ever gotten that has been sweet and kind and considerate, I've sometimes had to travel by myself with kids. Like, it's meant a lot to me. I remember those moments.

Like I remember the moments when people offered to give me a hand or told me that my baby was cute or told me that I'm doing a good job or recognized that it was like tough to travel with kids. I so remember those moments. you can not only make someone's day by just going out of your way and being kind, but you can leave an impression on them. And some people were saying, oh, you know, the internet lasts forever. You might not be that woman. No, I will be by the grace of God.

Because I already am that person. It doesn't take, it's not that I'm special. It doesn't take a lot of effort and energy to see anyone who is struggling, whether it's an older person, whether it's a mom, whether it's a kid, especially when I'm traveling by myself and just be the person that is going to bring peace and order and sweetness to a situation. I mean, that's what Christians are called to do. And so it's really not that, it's really not that difficult. But also to show you that I'm not a complete, like, I'm not a crazy person. And I do, I also want to get Bree's take on this and then we'll finish this out. But this just reminded me of this debate.

Bree, did you see this debate on X about the New York Post article? I think it was a tick, talk video of this woman who was getting married, who's at the altar, and this baby was screaming. And the headline was like, oh, bride is getting so angry at a baby crying. And all these comments were criticizing this woman. And the video was just her like kind of like looking around. She didn't look that angry to me. Yeah. But I'm on the bride's side there because I love children.

but it is not their place everywhere at all times. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be there at all at the wedding, but if they're crying, they need to be taken out because all the video and all the footage and all the memories are now going to be clouded. I still remember when I got married that like in the middle of our vows, someone on the property took their like really loud golf cart. It's probably like a gator.

And like drove it. Oh, no. Like behind. No one probably remembers that. I still remember it. Yep. Okay. What's your take?

Oh, no. I know that there are some prominent people who were saying, well, kids should go to weddings. Kids have a place at weddings. Sure. But if I was that bride, I would have been more angry than she was. Because, yes, you spend so much money on a videographer, a photographer. Well, photography doesn't matter. but videography.

Yeah. People are filming it. This is a memory that's supposed to last forever. And yeah, that's really annoying to have something interrupt it. So I am completely on her side. I don't think you even have to debate whether or not kids should be banned from weddings because that's not really what this is about. You're right.

The parents should have taken the kid out because this is one of the most important moments of that woman's life. And it's not about that kid for his parents. So I think it was really inconsiderate on their part. I'm totally on her side. I would have been even more dramatic about it probably. Yes. And I would have probably been the person in the audience to like go back there and be like, hey, do you want me to take them out?

Like I will take them out and I will be sweet and we will play it together. But like we're going to do this. It's not the kid's fault. I mean, he was probably three. It's the parents. You just have to have the discernment to know that like, can't. Kids just aren't for every single place at all times. And yeah, and I agree with that too.

I don't think that it's fair to just be like kids belong at weddings all the time. If you want your wedding to not have kids at it, then fine. You're paying money for it. It's a party you're throwing. I think you can make the rules. Yes. I think that's okay. I think that's okay too.

And I've seen some people like, don't make me come without my kids. Well, you don't have to go. Like, that's totally fine. If you're like, I don't want to leave my kids with a babysitter. I want my kids to come with me to a wedding. Okay. Yeah. Like, that's fine.

And I also think it's fine if a bride is like, no, I want all the kids there. I love it. I don't care. I want all the children there. I think that's amazing too. But I don't think you're a bride zilla for having a preference on that. I agree. But you are bad if you're mean to moms and dads on airplanes who are just trying to keep it together

and keep their kids still. So I'll just end on that. All right. We got through it. We got through most of this stuff in under an hour. I know. So impressive. All right.

On Monday, we've got Alex Clark here. Amazing conversation. She is revealing things. You do not know about her and her romantic life. But so, so much more is spanned in that conversation. To look forward to that. And again, tomorrow morning, share the arrows. com.

Okay. See you Monday.