Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1156 | Steven Lawson Breaks Silence, Dylan Mulvaney’s Book Flops & Gym Clothes Rant

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Today, we're discussing Steve Lawson, former Trinity Bible Church teaching pastor, and his recent post asking forgiveness for a "sinful relationship" he had with a woman not his wife. We break down his post and what the biblical response to his public repentance ought to be, and we react to the PR surrounding the whole situation. We also take a peek at Dylan Mulvaney's new memoir, "Paper Doll: Notes from a Late Bloomer," and the media interviews he's done to promote it. Not that it's helped much; the book hasn't even broken the top 500 books on Amazon. And is it too much to ask women to simply put on a shirt while working out in a gym? Apparently so! Share the Arrows 2025 is on October 11 in Dallas, Texas! Go to sharethearrows.com for tickets now! Buy Allie's new book, "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": https://a.co/d/4COtBxy --- Timecodes: (03:30) Steve Lawson statement  (16:38) Biblical response to Steve Lawson (21:09) PR messaging  (26:50) Dylan Mulvaney’s new book (43:25) Dylan on The View  (55:45) Gym clothes --- Today's Sponsors: Masa Chips — Go to MasaChips.com and use promo code ALLIEB for a discount on your first time order of seed oil free tortilla chips! Jase Medical — Go to Jase.com and enter code “ALLIE” at checkout for a discount on your order. Lumen — If you want to take the next step in improving your health, go to https://www.lumen.me/RELATABLE to get 20% off your Lumen. --- Related Episodes: Ep 1072 | Another Pastor Bites the Dust https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1072-preacher-steve-lawson-ousted-for-secret-sin/id1359249098?i=1000670568811 Ep 1105 | Cru’s Woke Post-Election Email & Steven Lawson Scandal Update https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1105-crus-diversity-team-sent-a-ridiculous-post/id1359249098?i=1000677821176 Ep 772 | Why Dylan Mulvaney Made Me Cry https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-772-why-dylan-mulvaney-made-me-cry/id1359249098?i=1000604544595 ---   Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

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That's fellowship homelones.com slash alley, term supply, see site for details, fellowship home loans, mortgage lending by the book, nationwide mortgage bankers, DBA Fellowship Home Loans, equal housing lender, NMLS, NMLS, number 819-382. Preacher Stephen Lawson has broken his silence after it was revealed several months ago that he had engaged in an inappropriate relationship with a woman that was not his wife. We are going to take a look at his statement today and give my response to it. Also, Dylan Mulvaney is out with a new book and he was on The View Man on Man. We got some comments on that. And last but not least, I am putting my rant on gym clothes.

and a permanent spot on this podcast. We've got lots on this episode of Relatable, which is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com, code alley. That's good ranchers.com code Alley. Hey, guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.

All right, we've got so much to get into today. Just a couple things before we get started, though. Share the arrows, October 11th, 2025. It's actually not that far away. The fall seems forever away, but it's really not. It's just a few months. And so you need to go ahead and get your tickets. Go to share the arrows.com.

Bring your women's small group. Bring your women in your Sunday school class, your sisters, your friends, your mother-in-law, your sister-in-law. It's going to be an amazing time. I am so pumped, so excited for it. We will be releasing some of the speakers so soon. So make sure that you go to sharetheaeros.com. Get your tickets. It's in Dallas, Texas.

It is going to be absolutely incredible. I hope that it is the highlight for all of you of your year. All right. Another thing, if you love this podcast, please leave us a five-star review, whether you listen or watch on Spotify. We've got video on Spotify now, yay. Or if you listen on Apple Podcasts or if you want to subscribe on YouTube, that is super helpful for us.

And thank you so much to all of you who have been listening now for it. is March of 2025. It is now seven years. Seven years ago this month, we started relatable with Ali Beth Stucky. Oh my goodness. And it started as just one time a week. Then I got a call. Will you go to two times a week? Then I got a call. Will you go to three? And then a few months later, it was four times a week. And here we are giving you news, politics, theology, culture from a Christian conservative perspective with two-ish interviews a week, pop culture, and what's going on in D.C. and sometimes the world, as clearly as we possibly can. And some of you have literally been around now for seven years. And I'm just so grateful. And for all of you

who are new, too. And you really have become like friends and family. Every time I get to meet you in the wild, you let me know that you're praying for me, praying for the team, praying for the show. And that really does mean so much. I don't take that for granted. I always say I have the best and the smartest, most thoughtful audience in the world that's never been more evident to me than it shared the arrows last year. But it's just really true. Everyone should want an audience like the relatable audience. You guys are Salt of the Earth people. And I love you so much. And I'm just so thankful to God for all of you. All right. Let us talk about Steve Lawson.

statement that he finally put out yesterday after, I think, five months of silence. So let me go back a little bit and give you a refresher. Maybe you don't even know what I'm talking about. Most of you, however, probably do. Steve Lawson was the teaching preacher, not the shepherding pastor, not the main pastor, but the itinerate preacher at Trinity Bible Church in Dallas. This is a pretty new church and he focuses on through not just his preaching but also in his various ministries, his teaching at John McArthur's Masters Seminary Expository Preaching, an amazing expository preacher. I have read some of his books about the reformers. I have listened to many of his sermons. I have met him before just a very dynamic, charismatic person who seem to take the

word of God very seriously. Honestly, I've listened to a lot of preachers. I don't know many preachers who have the same expository passion and skill as Stephen Lawson. So when I heard several months ago through a public statement made by Trinity Bible Church, the church where he was preaching, that he had been caught, I'm using my own terms here, but in an inappropriate relationship with a younger woman, I was so shocked and devastated. This is one of the last people I ever would have guessed would have been found in some kind of impropriety. And we still don't know the details of that relationship.

That was a big sticking point for a lot of people who were fans, followers of Stephen Lawson, or who attended his Bible study, or who attended his church, is that we didn't really know. It was really like a lot of sleuthing of people to try to figure out what went on. And we did find out this was a younger woman who he knew through Master's Seminary, whose parents had been a part of John McArthur's Grace Community Church for a long time. We don't know the full extent of the relationship. We don't know the nature of the relationship. It sounds to me, if I am to read between the lines, that it was not a sexual relationship, not a full-on affair, but that it was more of an emotional bond way too familiar, communicating way too much. That's what it seems to me.

Although even the congregants in Trinity Bible Church have really kind of, for the most part, been left in the dark, there are congregants at Trinity Bible who feel. that the elders there handled this in a satisfactory way. They still attend there. They're thankful for the strength, the resolve, what they see as the transparency of their elders. And I know many people who have left Trinity Bible Church because they did not like how it was handled.

And maybe they were attending just for Stephen Lawson and his expository preaching. And then when he left, they didn't want to stay anymore. But it's been really disappointing. And I think a lot of people have been very frustrated by the silence that Stephen Lawson has prolonged. I understand not wanting to stoke gossip or stoke speculation by giving little breadcrumbs. And as we will read in his statement, he says he hasn't said anything because he wanted to make sure that his repentance was real. However, I understand how basically being ghosted by your spiritual mentor. A lot of people felt like he was a spiritual mentor for them was really hurtful, much more hurtful than if he had come out right away and at least given some clarity, some transparency,

and then said, hey, I'm going to be taking a step back from all public communication. And here's what I'm going to be focusing on. pray not only for me that Christ would help me walk in repentance and sanctification, but please pray for my family, please pray for my wife, and really kind of shifted the focus to the people that he hurt, the people that he harmed. But just the lack of communication there, I think was extremely devastating for a lot of people, understandably so. He resigned from all of his duties at the time. At won Passion Ministries, they put out their own statement and also another thing about the statements that we noted, and it turned out to be correct at the time,

one thing that you noticed in these statements was that they did not say that at that point he had repented. It was actually that Stephen Lawson had been found out in his sin, and that at that point, it was not clear that he had actually acknowledged and turned. away from his sin. There was some very strange wishy-washy language in those statements that made people wonder, hang on, is this over yet? Some people got mad at me for reading in between the lines, but that ended up being confirmed later. And so he released this silence, or he released this statement, rather, breaking his silence on March 12th. He said this. He said, it is with a shattered heart that I write this letter. I have sinned grievously against the Lord,

against my wife, against my family, and against countless numbers of you by having a sinful relationship with a woman, not my wife. Again, we don't know what kind of sinful relationship, but a sinful relationship. I am deeply broken that I have betrayed and deceived my wife, devastated my children, brought shame to the name of Christ, reproach upon his church, and harm to many ministries. You may wonder why I have been silent. and largely invisible since the news of my sin became known. He said he needed time to search his own soul and determine that my repentance is real. He says he alone is responsible for my sin, reading in between the lines for his sin,

reading in between the lines there, I think he's trying to say, don't blame this woman. This is something I'm taking responsibility for. I have confessed my sin to the Lord, to my wife, to my family, have repented of it. So he's very clear about that. he said he's very sad over his sin. He says that his sin carries enormous consequences. He says many have looked at him for spiritual guidance and he has failed these people. He says, I beg for your forgiveness. And some people out there might say, well, it's not fair that all of these people are demanding these statements or demanding transparency for him. It's not his fault that they

look to him as a spiritual mentor. Well, he purposely placed himself in that position of being a mentor to thousands and thousands, not just people he knew personally, but people that he reached directly online, digitally. And that didn't happen by happenstance. He put himself in that leadership, mentorship, teaching position. He talks about what he's doing every week. He says he's dealt with sin issues that have been painfully exposed in my heart. I've submitted myself in weekly accountability to two pastors and the elders of a local congregation who have shepherded my soul. I am also under the oversight of an accountability team who monitor my progress and give me wise counsel and the decisions I have to make. I'll talk about this a little bit more in a minute.

That paragraph is strange to me. It's just strange. This is just my personal, subjective opinion. I don't need to hear those details. And to me, that almost comes across as defensive. Now, I'm willing to say maybe that's unfair. I just think that it's, I think that is, a little strange personally, just from a PR perspective. He says, I'm growing in grace, reading and absorbing the word of God, putting it into practice, praying and meeting with other believers. I'm involved in the life of the church, attending and participating in prayer meetings, Sunday school, the worship service, and taking communion weekly. I am being fad the word in the midweek Bible study. Please pray for my spiritual growth into Christ-likeness as I follow him moment by moment during this

recovery season. I feel the same way about this paragraph. And maybe to me, I'm wondering, Who are you answering? Who are you speaking to when you are listing all of these weekly religious activities that I hope and pray and believe correspond to real heart change and real humility? I'm not doubting the sincerity there, but are these answers to questions that people have? I mean, I've talked to a lot of people who attended his church and who look to him for guidance. And none of them have been like, well, I just, I wonder if he's taking communion every week. like I'm just concerned. Is he meeting with one or two pastors? What's going on there? Really, like,

the bigger concern is what happened? How long were they being duped? Was he being sincere when he was preaching? How is his wife? How are their children? Now, you might say he doesn't have their responsibility to answer those questions. That's true, maybe. That's to some extent. To some extent. to some extent. I would say some of those questions don't have to be answered. And he's trying to avoid speculation. And look, I have a lot of grace because these statements can just be so hard. They can be really, really difficult to say the right thing. But listing all of the repentance-centered activities that are happening every week again, to me, just comes across as defensive. And I'm not sure that that's what people need to hear in this moment. He says, I'm grateful for the unmarried.

grace of God in the gospel to extend his full forgiveness to me. I ask for your forgiveness as well. He says, please pray for me. The Lord's mercy and grace is I seek to make right the deeply wrong sins. I've committed against my wife and family and that in his time and way he will bring about redemption and restoration in our marriage for his glory. We of course don't know exactly what that means. If there has actually been like any physical separation there, I just feel so deeply for his wife. Like that is who I'm thinking of here. And I also, I'm not sure if it would be appropriate, but there is another party here.

I mean, there is a young woman who yes, sent. I mean, she's an adult woman. She had agency. And she, as far as we know, willingly entered into the sinful relationship, whatever that entailed. So I'm not saying that she was a victim as far as I know she wasn't a victim here. But gosh, we should also be praying for her. I'm not sure if it's appropriate for him to say that.

in a statement, he didn't say that. That's what I'm, that's what I'm kind of debating. Should he have said something like that or not? But whether or not he should have said that, the truth is we should be praying for her. And gosh, please pray for his family. So I've kind of got more of a response to this, the biblical response, and then my PR opinion in just a second. But let me pause. Let me tell you about our first sponsor for the day. And that is Mossa Chips. Y'all, I really love my seed oil. free masa tortilla chips. Here's what I love most about them. I would buy them. Even if I weren't trying to avoid seed oils and I didn't know they didn't have seed oils, I love masa chips just objectively because of the taste, but also because of the sturdiness. You know, I was born and raised in Texas. I was raised on

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property. So it's just a win all around. Go to Masa chips.com. Use my promo code Allie B for a discount on your order. That's M-A-S-A-chips.com code Allie B. Okay, I have no reason not to believe the genuineness, the honesty of Stephen Lawson as just a fellow believer, but also as someone who I want the best for him. I want the best for his family. I want the best for Trinity Bible Church. I want the best for everyone who has ever read him, listened to him, been mentored by him. I want the best for the global church, for Christianity in general. Like, I hope. and pray that this is true repentance, that all of this, I don't really care about, I mean, I do care to an extent, but I'm not as interested in all of the weekly activities that he's engaging in as much as I am just seeing the true heartbreak contriteness that should come with real repentance. And I hope and pray that that is really there. And when I was reading this and I was thinking through my thoughts, the first first that came to mind was 1 Corinthians 137.

Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Really, it's not my responsibility or anyone's responsibility to try to, because I don't have a personal, you know, friendship with Stephen Lawson. Like, I don't have to go into all of the different nooks and crannies of this and try to pick it apart and doubt whether or not he is honest. I'm going to take it at face value and hope and believe the best. You know, most commands, many of the commands that we are given in the New Testament to take care of the least of these, my brothers, for example, to ensure that we are caring for the household of God and to look after the saints in the work of ministry are actually commands to take care of our fellow believers. It is very clear throughout the New Testament

that that's really our first obligation. That is where our loyalty lies. First to the church. First to fellow Christians. And so yes, of course, we are called to love and to care for others and to care for the poor. But the love that we are called to in 1 Corinthians 13, we should feel, I think, most deeply for our brothers and sisters in Christ. And so that's one guidance I'm giving to myself and that I would give to you as well. There's also Ephesians 432. I love Ephesians 4. I love the whole book of Ephesians, as you guys know. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted. There's so much callousness today, tenderhearted for giving one another as God and Christ forgave you. So not just forgiving one another as it feels good. Gosh, forgiving one another

as God in Christ forgave you. Think about how much we were forgiven when Christ died on the cross for our sins. All of the ugliest stuff in our heart and mind and lives was completely just obliterated. Our slate was wiped clean because of the perfect sacrifice of Christ. That is the kind of forgiveness we are supposed to extend to other people. So no matter how deeply Stephen Lawson hurt you. We are actually called to a very powerful countercultural forgiveness through the strength of Christ. Luke 157, just so I tell you there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 righteous persons who need no repentance. And so if we are to take this at face value and believe and hope that this repentance is real

and only he and only God and hopefully those in his life really truly know that. That's just the nature of it, no matter who it is, no matter who we're talking about, that heaven is rejoicing over that. And God is celebrating and God is so gracious and so good. And he is quick to bring us back and to work out all things for our good and for his glory. And so let us continue to pray for that. pray for his family, pray for his wife, pray for his marriage, which is an earthly reflection of the marriage between Christ and the church that has so much significance. Here's my PR opinion. Take it for what it's worth. And my PR opinion does not discount his honesty and sincerity. I am just talking about what is effective messaging. What is going to appropriately impact as

many people as possible. There's no perfect statement. There are always going to be people that pick apart what you say and then are going to completely discount part of what you said or to they're going to say that you said something that you didn't say or they're going to say that you said the opposite of what you actually said. As someone who talks a lot in the public, that happens. You get people who are like, you never talk about this or you said this and it's just literally completely untrue. And so no statement, no person is ever going to be perfect or a perfect communicator. What I would advise someone in this position, very simple, very straightforward language, very transparent language.

That's a little bit tricky because you want to give transparency that shows honesty without inviting more speculation and more gossip and potentially targeting this young woman. I do appreciate he made no excuses. He did not say, I was a really hard time in my life, or I didn't know how to handle this. I do wish he would have said, which maybe you could argue he did in so many words. I was a total hypocrite. And I was preaching about purity and I was preaching about Christ-likeness when I was not acting like that myself. And I don't blame the people that question my ministry and question my integrity, but I want you to know that that everything that ever came out of my mouth that was directly from the Word of God is true and that I am not trustworthy, but Jesus Christ

is trustworthy, that he's the same yesterday, today, and forever. Look, I fell into this sin and here's what happened. I personally would like to see a little bit more clarity and just forthrightness and what actually happened, the timeline of what happened? Because you got a lot of people torturing themselves thinking, okay, was it during this sermon? What about the time that I followed this Bible study? And he said this. Or the time he counseled me in this way, was this really going on? Then I think something really clear about what happened.

And again, I think there should have been more of a focus on Christ and who he is, his stability, his trustworthiness, his unchanging nature. and also a focus more, more on calls for prayer for his wife and for his family. My personal opinion, I also would like to see something in this statement that says, I know that I am disqualified from ministry here on out, and you're not going to see me behind the pulpit again. And you're not going to see me leading one passion ministries for the rest of my life. I am going to lead a private and quiet life with my wife, my kids, and my grandchildren.

Some of you might disagree with that, but I do think that this is a disqualifying act from public ministry. It doesn't mean that he's not a Christian. It doesn't mean that God's not going to use his gifts to edify the church in some way. but the public platform is part of what led to this compromise, and I would have just liked to see that. And also an assurance, again, to people who are looking to him for public guidance to say, I'm going to go quiet again, and you're not going to hear from me. Maybe ever again, because public ministry is just no longer in the cards in this last chapter of my life.

Maybe not in the cards. however you would word that in a biblical way. And we didn't see that. So I think it's interesting. Again, these statements, just like the statements of the churches or that the church and the ministries released at the time that it happened, they are very carefully curated. For people that say, well, you're thinking too hard about this statement, you're looking too much at what was said, what was not said.

These statements are labored over for days and days and days, maybe more. months before they are released, all kinds of people are consulted, lawyers, publicists, fellow Christians, all of that. And that's not a bad thing. They should be. But what is said and what is not said is extremely intentional. Again, just to reiterate, that is not me discrediting his repentance or saying that he's not telling the truth or that he's not sincere. I hope and believe that he is and we should continue to pray for that. And pray for those also who were heartbroken by this and who have had a crisis of faith because of this failure, pray that Jesus would draw them close, would draw them near, would restore to them the joy of their salvation.

And they would remember Hebrews 138 that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today today and forever, no matter who fails you, who betrays you, Jesus never ever will. And just praise God for that. All right. We got to move on. And you know what? we don't even we don't even have to go into an ad and sometimes that helps us shift gears a little bit and we just don't we just don't have anything to shift gears i wish i could play some elevator

music right now to shift into talking about dylan mlvainy but okay let's just take a breath okay dylan mlvainy he's got a new book out y'all and there's there's there's no softer way to transition uh for not uh whatever you say what Is that what do you say? What? No, no, no pun intended is what I meant to say. What? Yeah, segue to transition.

But, okay, yeah, I'm trying to collect myself here. He's got a new book out. And it's called Paper Doll Notes from a Late Bloomer. I hope that this episode is included in his PR team's recap email that he receives this Friday, that relatable with Alibeth Stuckey highlighted his, highlighted his new book. Okay. Earlier this week,

trans-identifying influencer Dylan Milvaney with a 1.5 million followers on Instagram. I'm guessing this is supposed to be 9.2 million and not 92 million followers on TikTok, released a new book, the memoir about his so-called transition, how he responded to the ensuing media firestorms. storm that followed his Bud Light sponsorship. If you're new here, we do use the pronouns that correspond with someone's sex. It's not because we're being intentionally mean. We're not trying to be controversial. This is something that I debated with myself maybe seven years ago and then

I came to this epiphany that I can't outlove God and I'm not nicer than God. And if God says something is true, then the most loving thing I can do in any situation is agree with him. Those of you who have been listening for a long time have heard me say that ad nauseum. But God says in the first chapter of the first book of the Bible that we are made in his image, male and female. That's Genesis 1-27. That's repeated by Jesus in Matthew 19, 4 through 5. It is positively affirmed throughout scripture.

Whether you're looking at the definition of parents, the definition of marriage, you see the reality of the gender binary there. And just that first verse that we mentioned, it emphasizes how important that is that that is us being made in God's image. So when I call Dylan Mulvaney, he or him, that is not me being purposely disrespectful or bigoted or unloving, although, of course, the world will interpret it like that. And that's fine. That's the result of toxic empathy. And you can read about that in the trans chapter of my book. But that is me loving God. That is me agreeing with God. And that is me refusing to compromise the truth in the name of a worldly superficial toxic definition, wrong definition of love. First Corinthians 136, we quoted the seventh

first in that chapter earlier. The verse right before that says love never rejoices in wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Never rejoices in wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. So the love to which Christians are called is inextricably intertwined with the truth. And only God gets to define love because 1 John 4-8, he is love. So again, the most loving thing we can do in all situations is agree with him. And Dylan is made in God's image. He was made a male at the point of conception in God's image. God did that purposely. It wasn't an accident. Dylan doesn't have some secret female deep inside him. He doesn't have this identity that is mismatched with who he actually is and I don't even believe that he has true gender dysphoria. I think that he was probably

considered more feminine growing up in musical theater. He was probably labeled as gay early on. I don't know what other trauma he endured in his life and his upbringing, if any at all. I mean, it's usually something when a grown man who was almost 30 years old declares that he's not only a woman, but a girl. But the truth is, is that he is a person with a person. With a soul and I care about that. And I don't want to deny him the goodness of the truth that God has for him by affirming his delusions that will ultimately destroy him, body and soul. Okay. And a lot of people, I guess we probably won't have time to get into it and I promise I'll get into the rest of this Dylan Mulvaney stuff. But, you know, there was a whole thing on Axe Tommy Lauren saying it was rude for

the congressman and congressman self to call a Sarah McBride, Congressman Sarah McBride, who was a trans identifying male, he, him, sir. And, you know, Tommy is also pro-choice. And she said this kind of stuff before. I personally believe she just doesn't have a moral foundation for what she believes. But look, if you are still at that point, if you was a conservative or still at that point, I understand if you're new. If you're like part of the maha, you're new over here and you're just trying to learn this stuff. like grace, patience, all of that. But if you have been over here for a long time and you are still stuck in this idea that you should call a man, she, for the sake of politeness, you are so far behind,

you do not get it. And like praise to all of the center, center, right people who over the past five or so years have graduated to reality, realizing that it's either a man and a woman or it's not. Like you can't say men can't play in women's sports, but also call a man, she. It doesn't make sense. It's either one or the other. Either two plus two is four or two plus two is five. If two plus two is four, there's no, there's no good in saying that two plus two equals five. And there's a big cost in saying two plus two equals five because your complicity and the whole pronoun politeness game, you saying, oh, yeah, that man is actually a woman because he looks like a woman or he wants to be a woman.

That is the basis for allowing men in sports. Okay, and men in women's bathrooms. Of course, you can't say to someone, oh yeah, you're a woman. I don't want you to punch me. I don't want you to be mad at me. But no, you can't go into this woman's bathroom. Well, why not? If they are a she, then they are a woman. And if they're a woman, why can't they go into the woman's bathroom? But if they can't go into the women's bathroom because they're not a woman, then they're not a she. We should acknowledge reality. Denying reality has a really big cost. And it's more important. It's more important than politeness. Okay. Dylan Mulvaney. You'll remember who he is because back in 2023, Bud Light partnered with him to

celebrate his year of girlhood social media campaign by sending him packs of Bud Light featuring his face, which Mulvaney then shared to his popular social media accounts. There was a really big response from conservatives opposed to transgender ideology calling for a boycott of the beer brand. and Forbes reported at the time the Bud Light lost $1.4 billion in sales in the year following the controversy, which is great because of course you are the blue-collar conservative southern beer brand. And then all of a sudden, overnight, it became super gay to drink Bud Light. And of course, they've leveraged different figures, different comedians to try to get back in the good graces of conservatives. I think they even ran a Super Bowl ad that was like conservative coded, which has probably been kind of successful. I say hold your ground.

If you are going to as a brand celebrate a grown, a grown man acting like a girl, then I've got a big problem with that. I've got a huge problem with that. Okay, so here's the cover of Dylan Milvaney's book. And we have to stop for an ad in just a second. But I feel like I've given enough preamble. I have to give you something about this book that we brought up a couple minutes ago. Okay. Paper doll. Notes from a late bloomer. Okay. Very disturbing. And then you see the inside of it. This is like pink gingham. Again, it's more than just feminine. It is juvenile.

You know, it's creepy. I just heard someone say in the room. It is creepy. It's creepy. day one of being a girl and I'm coming out for the third time in my life today the first time I was 14 and I came out as a gay boy next was age 24 as non-binary and now here I am at 25 finally ready to tell the world I am a trans woman um okay conversation with my mom when I was four this is what he says happened four-year-old me mom mom yes four-year-old me I think God made a mistake mom what do you mean four year old me i think he put a girl in a boy's body that didn't happen dylan it didn't happen that didn't happen like i have i have kids now and i have watched three-year-olds turn to four-year-olds turn to five-year-olds and i and my kids are very brilliant and very

verbal and i know the emotional intelligence of people this age this is not how a four-year-old talks And by the way, like four-year-olds, they are smart for their age. They can be smart for their age. But overall, really dumb, really dumb. Can't see things long. They don't understand complex ideas. They don't understand consequences. And so for a four-year-old to be able to articulate, God put someone in the wrong body, this is a left-wing fantasy that they have constructed. There is this whole part of left-wing ideology. As again, they look. at everything through the lens of oppressor versus oppressed, they see kids oppressed by the nuclear family, oppressed by parental authority and need to be liberated. And so this dualistic idea that Nancy Piercy talks about so brilliantly and love thy body, everyone read that, that you can be a different person on the inside than what you are in the outside. And you know that deep down and you've just got to unlock that one day through your sexual identity, gender identity. It is a fantasy that he is actually playing out. And again, I will just reiterate, it is creepy. It is

weird for a grown man to say that he is a girl, okay? Like a little girl. He has dressed up like a six-year-old girl before. Let me show you this picture of Dylan Mulvaney from a couple years ago last year dressing up as Eloise. Remember, Eloise is a six-year-old fictional character who lives at the plaza in New York City, okay? And if you know enough about trans ideology, if you've been following this show, listening to the experts that we talk about, you know that this is a pattern of grown men suddenly saying that they identify as the opposite sex and then starting to dress up as adolescent girls, as teenage girls, even sometimes younger than that, with the bows, with the skirts, with the high socks.

It is very, very strange, okay? It is very perverse. And once you understand that the trans movement is not a bunch of people who have genuine struggle with gender confusion, with gender dysphoria, that so much of it, I don't know this for a fact about Dylan, but so much of it is actually led by pornography, by the worst kind of pornography, then you start to realize, okay, this pronoun politeness stuff, it's completely bunk. I'm not going to affirm that dark. demonic underbelly of the trans movement.

And your sympathy changes. It's not that you don't have sympathy for them, but you have sympathy for them as people who are lost, who are possessed in some way, not as people who genuinely are stuck in the wrong body. And that's a really important distinction to make. Okay, we've got more about this in just a second. Let me pause.

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It's a travel case of emergency medical supply. And when you use my code Alley, you can get a discount on your order for any of these cases. Jase.com, Code Alley. All right. So he's going around now promoting this book. He did this whole Days of Girl thing, Days of Girlhood thing on Twitter or not on Twitter, on TikTok and on Instagram. Let me tell you something also about Dylan Mulvaney. That is just freaky. And I've said this before. So we have been talking about him. And I've talked about him in very like compassionate like a terms too. Like please. to him to see that God did not make a mistake, that he never make mistakes, and that he made

your body exactly what it was supposed to be. He's gone through this like facial feminization surgery, all of this stuff, estrogen, which is not good for the male body to have too much estrogen. It's not good for the female body to have too much testosterone. So many issues that come from that. And we discovered one day, this was, I don't know, a couple years ago, Bree. I don't know, a year and a half ago. Yeah, I think it was 2023 or beginning of 2023 maybe. Okay. And like, Bree, I don't

even think you had been on the show at that point yet. Nope. And definitely the other girl who worked on the team at the time to do social media had never been on the show, had never publicly said her name. I might have said the name Bree before, but

it wouldn't have known last name. And again, this social media girl, like y'all probably don't, even y'all don't know the name of the person who does my social media. I don't talk about her. It was the same way then too. And we all found one day when we were trying to look at Dylan Mulvaney's Instagram that we had all been blocked. Our show page, my page, Bree's page, our social media girls page, again, they were not public facing. You can't find out on the Blaze TV website. There is no public information that said Breeze first and last name, our social media girls

first and last name and associated with relatable. And yet somehow he found a way to block all of us. That to me tells me something. That to me tells me, I think this is just my suspicion, that he had contacts or his people have contacts at Meta, at Instagram, that they were able to figure out everyone who had access to our show page. Yep. And that they, because you can't, again, you can't find that publicly.

and he wouldn't have been able to find that. Nope. But they found everyone who has access to our show page and basically blocked us for him. Yeah. Because there were other people on our team who were not logged into our show page who are not blocked by Dylan. So that has to be what happened. Yeah. Crazy.

Which is crazy. And so anytime that he talks about, you know, being oppressed or whatever, he's got power. He's got, he's got sway. He's got influence. You can ask any person how difficult it is, especially as a conservative. to even talk to someone at these social media companies. I almost said countries, but, and like get an answer, get help. Like, it is very tough. So, yeah, he doesn't, he doesn't like us, which is just so shocking. Anyway, so he went on the view to talk about his new book, which is crazy.

Like, he's got such a big platform. His book right now is number like 800 something in the top 100 books and it just came out, which I have a much smaller platform than Dylan Mulvaney. And praise God, at one point, my book was in the top 100 books on Amazon. Praise God for that. And I'm not even saying that to like brag. I'm just saying, like this is true of a lot of new authors with any kind of platform or like new books. They hit the top 100.

But his has only gone down. And he went on the view and has done all of this national stuff. And it has 19 reviews and 2.5 stars. I just find that very surprising. I really do because he's got a lot of people that love him. Anyway, so he went on the view and he started talking about, you know, girls' sports and things like that. And they started talking about trans-identifying athletes.

And Whoopi Goldberg brings up California Governor Gavin Newsom's recent comments acknowledging that it is unfair for trans-identifying men to compete in women's sports. Yeah, we haven't even talking about. about Gavin Newsom's podcast with Charlie Kirk. Oh, my goodness. Charlie did great. But I have so many thoughts on that. Anyway, then she asks Dylan what he thinks about this comment. And so here's that exchange thought too. The last time I played a sport, I was six years old and I was on a soccer team, but I assigned myself as the nurse. So I sat with the band-aids. And so in the words of Wicked, I am not that girl. Part of the problem that the trans community is facing and it's the

same problem that women face is if you don't know anything about our bodies, you don't know how it works. So when you come in and you say, oh, you know, these men are, these are men, you know, competing against women. You're assuming that the women are weak and just can't do anything yourself right here. Have you seen female athletes? They know what they're doing. What? Okay. first of all, if there is anyone who knows nothing about the female body, it is Dylan Milvaney. First, he was a gay man. And then he said he's someone who is the opposite sex. He knows nothing negative about the female body.

Remember that one time when he said he walks around with tampons in case, like, there is someone around him that asks for a tampon. Again, never happened. Weird fantasy. He knows nothing about the female body. I guess Whoopi Goldberg doesn't either. Because to say that, oh, the reason why we have sex segregated athletics is because we don't believe women are strong. I've had people to say that to me.

Oh, this is your inner misogynist that you don't believe that men can compete against women. Have you talked to a female athlete? Do you remember when the Olympic U.S. women's soccer team, they played a Dallas-based under 15s boys team? Do you remember that from a few years ago? Do you know who won? The 15-year-old boys. Okay? The 14 and 15-year-old boys beat the Olympic women's soccer team in a scrimmage a few years ago.

Let's think about that. Okay, here's my favorite study to quote from. This is a Duke University study from 2017. Okay? Duke University is not conservative. If you know sport, you know this beyond a reasonable doubt. There is an average 10 to 12 percent performance. gap between elite males and elite females. The gap is smaller between elite females and non-elite males,

but it's still insurmountable, and that's ultimately what matters. Did I say that correctly? First, performance gap between elite males and elite females, I might have said females twice. I don't remember. But just in the single year 2017, this is amazing. Just in the single year, 2017, Olympic World and U.S. champion, Tori Bowie's 100 meters lifetime best. of 10.78 was beat 15,000 times by men and boys. Okay? So her very best. This is the most elite runner, probably in the world.

She was beaten 15,000 times, not just from men, but also from non-elite boys. We are talking about high school boys. There are high school boys that can beat the fastest female runner in the world. The same is true of Olympic world. and U.S. champion Allison Felix's 400 meters lifetime of 49.26. Just in the single year, just in one year, okay? 2017, men and boys around the world outperformed her more than 15,000 times. They note that this is a result not based on mere identity,

not based on better resources, not better training, not superior discipline. It is because these boys have an androgyized body. something that happens during puberty. The results make clear that sex determines win share. Female athletes are not competitive for the win against males. The lowest end of the male range of testosterone is three times higher than the highest end of the female range. And you know what? That is not changed post-puberty. That's not changed by pumping a guy with estrogen. the damage has been done. His heart is bigger. He has more aerobic and anaerobic capacity in his lungs. His bones are bigger. His muscle mass is bigger. His entire body was made in a different way. Every

single cell of his body, except for some of his sperm cells are X, Y. Okay. That changes everything, particularly after puberty. These biological differences, Duke University says, explain the male and female secondary sex characteristics which developed during puberty have lifelong effects, including the most important for success in sport, different strength, speed, and endurance. There is no other physical, cultural, or socioeconomic trade as important as testes. Okay? You got balls.

You're going to win. The number of men and boys beating the world's best women in the 100 and 400 meters is far from the exception. it is the rule. Okay? Come on. Like this is not rocket science. I mean, science and statistics are basically just catching up to what we already know. And I want to end this segment with this story that I came across on X this morning, just a reminder to you of why any time you feel, gosh, this is just, it's too harsh, it's too mean, it's too controversial. We shouldn't be talking about this. We shouldn't hurt people's feelings. We should put people's feelings first. I want to remind you that not only are you trying to outnice God, which is self-idolatry,

which is a serious sin, but you are also complicit in a movement that is ruining people's lives. And that is the difference between toxic empathy and love. Toxic empathy simply affirms someone's feelings because you don't want to make them feel bad. It denies reality and morality. It refuses to look at the people on the other side of the moral. equation. Remember, Christians are called to the truth in love. That is the difficult and sometimes tense dichotomy that Christians are called to. And the love that we are called to is not always seen as nice or easy or acceptable by the world. And that's okay because friendship with God is enmity with

the world. And we should be enemies of this. This is Wesley Yang. I like following him on Acts. He talks a lot about detransition and just the evil of this movement. And so he went to a conference recently where he told this young person's story. Maybe we can get Forrest Smith on the show. But he said this. The story is just so heartbreaking. Let yourself feel it deeply. At Detransition Awareness Day, Forrest Smith describes running away to Portland after dropping out of college and availing himself of a network of homeless youth services that allowed him to reinvent himself as a transgender woman and participate in street political militancy. During COVID, he was rushed through for an emergency orchiactomy that is the removal of testicles,

despite closure of the hospital for elective procedures with the aid of a referral specialist, whose job was to manipulate billing codes for gender procedures, received a letter from a psychiatrist testifying that testicle removal was urgent and life-saving. All of these people should be in prison. Eight days later the surgery was done. When he then, after he got his testicles removed, when he began to question his transition, no therapist would speak to him and insurance that paid to remove his testicles while he was homeless and drug addicted would not cover removal of his breast implants. That is tragic.

This young man will never be the same. name. Yes, God can redeem him. He can use his testimony for good, but gosh, how many detransitioners have we talked to, especially women who will never have their voice back? They will never have their reproductive abilities back. They will never be able to breastfeed because they made this horror decision when they were young that there, of course, is some responsibility on them for, but they were affirmed by these adults who were too scared to tell them the truth or maybe who really believed that simply affirming people's delusions was the most loving thing. It's not loving. Whether someone regrets it or not later, it's still not loving. This is ruining people's lives.

And if Christians are not the one to stand up for it, as Christians have stood up against evil for the past 2,000 years and we pass the buck to people who don't even know Christ, who don't even believe that we are made in God's image, the movement against this kind of wickedness will fail. It has to be led by Christians who are uncompromising in the truth, not despite our love for neighbor, but because of our love for neighbor. And if you want more about this movement about what is happening to people's bodies, children's bodies, re-toxic empathy. It's a short read, but it is really important for Christians to understand what is going on here. And so that is, that is why. I'm not going to, I'm just not persuaded by your pronoun, politeness. I'm not

persuaded by your moral extortion and your emotional manipulation because lives and bodies are on the line. And I, I care about that. All right. Let me pause, tell you about our last sponsor for the day. We've got a more lighthearted segment to end today's episode. And that is Lumen. So Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath on the app. So you have an app that's connected to it. It lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs and gives you tailored guidance to improve your nutrition, your workouts, your sleep, even stress management. It's really amazing. You just wake up in the morning, you breathe into this device, and then you look at the app, and the app tells you what you need to eat, what you need to do.

Are you really burning fat? It's so important if you're trying to get your metabolism in check, and your metabolism is really what needs to be focused on to make sure that you've got the metabolic health necessary to lose weight and to get healthy. This affects all of your organs, So Lumen is a really easy tool to help you do that. If you go to Lumen.me.me slash relatable, that's L-U-M-E-N-D-me-S-Rlatable, you'll get 20% off your device. That is Lumen.combe slash relatable. All right, this is a very wide-ranging episode, y'all. If you stick around for long enough, you'll get basically everything.

So we're going to talk about Jim Close because I posted about this on the fly. on my Instagram story and I just got such a response from so many of you and so many people asking me to talk about this on the show. Some of you are going to love this and be yelling amen and some of you are going to be like, this is mean, this is wrong, you shouldn't talk about this. This is all my personal opinion. And now some of it is biblical, as we'll get into, but I mean, some of it is just my take. So you can take it or leave it. This is Ali Beth's in the wild. Okay, so I joined a gem for the first time in like 12 years. I have done other forms of workouts, every form of workout. I've done CrossFit and cycling and Orange Theory and bar and

Pilates and long distance running and all that kind of stuff. And I really like everything, really, in a different way. But I decided to join just a regular old gem because I like weightlifting and I had no idea really what to expect. It's been a pretty good experience except for the fact that the girls wear no clothes. Okay? They wear no clothes. And I am not. Obviously, I believe in modesty first as a heart posture, but it should also manifest

itself in what we wear. However, I would not call myself a legalist when it comes to this. The Bible doesn't say how long our skirts have to be or if we can wear tank tops or not wear tank tops. I'm not one of those people. Modesty is one of those things that it's kind of you know it when you see it. Different things look different on different people. It's obvious when someone is wearing something for the purpose of provoking lust. Some things are just objectively immodest. Other things might be based on opinion. So anyway, I'm not what you would call a stickler on every single part of clothing.

You don't have to be a stickler that you would have to be blind to not see what I am talking about in gems. Okay? We're not just talking about crop tops. We're not just talking about leggings. The things that women are wearing these days are insane. I am talking about bras. Okay?

Bras. That might as well just be like your regular brasier, not even a sports bra. These people are wearing, these women are wearing. these women are wearing publicly with the leggings that are not typical leggings, but actually scrunch in the butt crack. So it looks like you have a wedgy. Now, I remember when having a wedgey used to be a form of bullying. Okay?

Like, you know, the old 80 sitcoms where the nerd would get a wedgey and he would get hung on the locker or something. Now people are paying to be wets. this stuff is not functional. It can't really be sanitary. You're sweating all over the equipment. You've got your like translucent leggings stuck all the way up your butt. And let me also just say it's not cute for the most part. Now I know I'm speaking as a woman. I say for the most part because obviously there are people who are professional athletes and they're athletic and they look. And they look very strong in this stuff. That's really kind of beside the point when we're talking about

decency and appropriateness and public situations. But I just want to say, and I say this as someone who would also be talking about myself. I am not saying this from the position of thinking I have perfect physique by any means. I just want to be the wake up call for you because TikTok has deluded you. Most people don't look good in these outfits. Okay? They don't. Like there is no one that I've seen that would not look better in a shirt. Okay? And I think that TikTok has really diluted us into thinking that these like light colored wedgified leggings and these skimpy sports bras make us look more athletic.

It's not true. It makes you look less athletic. And here's the other thing. I know from experience how easy it is to put on a shirt. It's so easy. to just put a shirt or a tank top over your sports bra. It takes no effort at all that it is so obvious that you are making the choice that you are making with your clothing because you are thirsty.

Okay? That's got to be it. That's the only thing. And I know that we hear, oh, you know, these women, they're not dressing for the male gays. They're not dressing for men. They're dressing for other women. They're dressing for each other. Well, let me just say on behalf of the home girls, we don't like it.

Girl, you can get dressed. If you're dressing for us, you can put a shirt on. Just put a shirt on. That's all I'm asking. And it's really also a matter of fairness. Because if men have to wear a shirt, I've never seen a man at this gym without a shirt on, ever. If men have to wear shirts, then women should have to wear shirts too. It doesn't seem like that difficult of a rule to enforce.

Just say no midrifts. Everyone has to wear a shirt. You can't come in and just underwear. I don't think gyms should have to measure, you know, how longer your shorts. I'm not saying that, although that'd be kind of cool if they did. I wouldn't be against that. It's, you know, private gym. You can do what you want to do.

But just have a basic rule. You can't wear underwear out in the main area. You need to wear a tank top. And I've gotten these responses saying, well, you know, it gets hot in there. No, it doesn't. It doesn't get that hot. It doesn't get that hot. And you're working out.

You're supposed to sweat. And, oh, you know, it's more functional. No, no, it is not. No, it is not because you are thinking about falling out of your clothes when you're doing your bent over row. Okay? It's not more comfortable. It's actually like, I would think very uncomfortable. And there is no form of working out that I've ever done that I've thought, you know what? Like this would be way better if I could take my shirt off right now. I've never thought that. Like tank top, t-shirt, t-shirt sometimes can be restrictive. Tank top, you're good to go. Another part about this is that you will see this and I think it's influencer culture on Instagram that has really caused this and we can debate all different kinds of things if women should be wearing leggings at all and all that kind of stuff open to open to that conversation but influencer culture has made women think that they need to dress like this when they work out and um you'll see dialogue discussion among these influencers like while this man was creepily looking at me like she'll

have her phone set up and she's you know wearing this outfit and she sees a guy in the background who doesn't realize he's being recorded checking her out and then she'll have this whole meltdown afterwards she's like I get with me girl look men are certainly responsible for their actions men are responsible for their thoughts Jesus said if your eye is causing you to to lust, pluck it out. Okay, that's how serious he was about lust, and he puts the responsibility on the luster. However, you are also responsible for how you dress, and there are a lot of men out there who do not follow the advice of Christ, okay? And so you can't really be surprised when they're checking you out. Now, I'm not saying that that justifies any kind of disrespect or any kind of

harassment or anything like that, so don't hear me victim blame in or whatever. But let's not remove all agency from women. You can work out without looking like a hoe. You can. And I am respecting your body more than you're respecting your body when I say that, because you are worth more than self-objectification, okay? And you should respect yourself enough not to be thirsty when you're working out. Just get dressed. That's all I'm asking. Just get dressed. Don't wear underwear in public. And I wish that this wasn't controversial to say, but apparently it is. And I'm sure that I will get a wide range of YouTube comments on there. But I just wanted to share my thoughts in a permanent place. And so many of you ask, does Bree have any thoughts? Do you have any thoughts on this topic?

No, I agree. You can work out without looking like a hoe. Yep. However, like I sometimes go to like an infrared sauna gym. And they have individual rooms. And so I sometimes I see people in there working out by themselves in like sports bras. And I don't have an issue with that. Yeah. I do think that's different. I mean, you're by yourself.

You're trying to be as private as possible. Yes. Yeah. Don't take all your clothes off, please. No. Yeah, I've never seen anyone without any clothes, which is good. But no, I agree. It's, it's an issue.

It's distracting. It's got to be super distracting for dudes. too. I mean, I just, don't you want to just focus? And then we don't have time to get into all of this. We skipped this story, but there was this like gym owner and the UK who wanted to start her own gem that was just for women. And she is being absolutely lambasted by these trans activists because she was like, yeah, you got to actually be a woman. Like your biology has to be a woman. There's all different like reasons for this. And she is absolutely getting so much pushback. I hope she stands strong. Like, I think that that is a good.

but still even if we're male female split up i don't want to see i don't want to see all that and for anyone who says mind your business i would love to mind my business don't shimmy by the squat rack if you want us to all mind our business okay we know you want to be seen i don't want to see that all right let's end the week on that note and we will be back here on monday