Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1205 | ‘I Was a Murderer’: From Abortion to Gospel Redemption | April Chapman

Episode Date: June 17, 2025

Today, we sit down with Christian content creator April Chapman to discuss her journey from the prosperity gospel to a biblically grounded faith, her path to healing after abortions, and how she navigates racial and political divides as a believer. April shares about her upbringing in New York City, her exposure to the prosperity gospel at a megachurch, and the transformative moment she encountered the true gospel. She opens up about the pain of her past abortions and how she confronted her sin and found healing through God’s grace. We also explore her rejection of "racial reconciliation" narratives that elevate ethnic distinctions over gospel unity. How can Christians celebrate our God-given differences without falling into division or ethnic idolatry? April's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@UnshakableWithApril Share the Arrows 2025 is on October 11 in Dallas, Texas! Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠sharethearrows.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for tickets now! Sponsored by ⁠⁠⁠⁠Carly Jean Los Angeles⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Good Ranchers⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠EveryLife⁠⁠⁠⁠. Buy Allie's new book, "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://a.co/d/4COtBxy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ --- Timecodes: (01:00) April's response to black church controversy (03:40) Racial reconciliation (12:08) Upbringing (22:00) Prosperity gospel avoiding the gospel & April's abortions (37:20) Evolution to conservatism (44:14) Ingrained racial assumptions --- Today's Sponsors: Carly Jean Los Angeles — Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.carlyjeanlosangeles.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use code ALLIEB to get 20% off your first CJLA order, site wide (one-time use only) and start filling your closet with timeless staple pieces. And see Allie's CJLA favorites at ⁠⁠⁠⁠carlyjeanlosangeles.com/pages/allieb⁠⁠⁠ Good Ranchers — Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠GoodRanchers.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and subscribe to any of their boxes (but preferably the Allie Beth Stuckey Box) to get free Waygu burgers, hot dogs, bacon, or chicken wings in every box for life. Plus, you’ll get $40 off when you use code ALLIE at checkout. Freedom Project Academy — Take back your child’s education at Freedom Project Academy. Right now, save 15% on all courses when you enroll at freedomforschool.com and use code ALLIE15. Patriot Mobile — go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠PatriotMobile.com/ALLIE⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or call 972-PATRIOT and use promo code 'ALLIE' for a free month of service! --- Related Episodes: Ep 1154 | Ex-New Ager Reveals Cults’ Secret Invasion of the Church | Guest: Melissa Dougherty https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1154-ex-new-ager-reveals-cults-secret-invasion-of/id1359249098?i=1000698790509 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://alliebethstuckey.com/book⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

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That's fellowship homelones.com slash alley, term supply, see site for details, fellowship home loans, mortgage lending by the book, nationwide mortgage bankers, DBA Fellowship Home Loans, equal housing lender, NMLS, number 819-382. A few weeks ago, I received a ton of blowback for asking one of my guests this question. Why does it seem like the prosperity gospel is especially prominent in black majority churches? Oh, my goodness, I fielded all kinds of accusations. But there was one commentator who stuck up for me. And she gave me her perspective.

And that is April Chapman. She had an incredible video on this subject. And I wanted to have her on to talk not only about that topic, but really to share her incredible testimony of how God saved her. She has an incredible pro-life story about going through her own abortions and then God saving her and changing her heart, changing her perspective on life and on children. You're going to be so edified by her wisdom and just her vulnerability. and sharing what God has done in her life.

This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use code Alley at checkout for $40 off. That's Good Ranchers.com, code Alley. April, thanks so much for taking the time to join me. Absolutely. I'm a fan for sure. Thank you.

Well, thank you. Okay, for those who may not know, can you tell us who you are and what you do? Yeah, so I am April Chapman. I am actually host of Unshakeable with April, just went through a rebrand. and I'm a wife and a mom and a Christian content creator. I talk about politics and faith and all of the crazy things that are going on in the culture from a biblical perspective.

Yes. So that's me. That's you. And I first found your channel. Maybe I had seen it before, but I definitely saw it when that whole kerfuffle happened when I had Melissa Dordy on and we were talking about. the New Age and the prosperity gospel and how the prosperity gospel seems to be prevalent in majority black churches. And I really honestly didn't think that comment would cause controversy. But then Eric Mason and Anthony Bradley and others, you know, they made a point to say, well,

these white ladies are talking about this and they shouldn't be talking about it. But then you made a response video. And I just want to say thank you for that because you did, You shared the arrows, and I know that you weren't trying to do that. You were just giving your genuine thoughts, but I appreciated that. And I was like, and I started watching all your other videos. And I was like, you've got so much insight. So thank you. You are welcome.

I really looked at it as just from one believer to another affirming what was true. And it really, I saw part of your interview. And then I saw another YouTuber respond. And I was like, yep, this is pretty much right. And then when I saw the backlash, I was like, oh, okay, I know what this is. So I am very much committed to seeing unity amongst the brethren, regardless of these ethnic distinctions. And I find that when we're elevating that, I'm like, okay, so this is the division that the Apostle Paul is talking about. This is what he's talking about, these silly controversies and where do these divisions and fights come from among you?

And I'm like, this is just a work of the flesh. Yeah. Okay. Can you tell me your thoughts on the difference between the unity among the brethren, regardless of our ethnic distinctions? I love how you worded that. And that term that we've heard so much over the past, I don't know, seven or so years, racial reconciliation.

Well, the thing is, the gospel is what reconciles us to God, vertically this way. And then the beauty of that gospel message is that we're now reconciled to each other. So the pagans are going to do what pagans do. They are going to create constructs and categories that divide people. But when you're in Christ, I don't understand language that says we need racial reconciliation. If the gospel, if we're honest, what the gospel does is it takes this group of people who are just filthy, wretched sinners, and then provide. us a way to be reconciled to God and then we're reconciled to each other. So then when you bring in this another construct to say, well, we need racial reconciliation. And I'm like, but we're believers.

The gospel's already accomplished that. I get really confused. And I don't, I'm like, this is something else. And so when you talk about the term racial reconciliation, I have to reject it on its premise because if I look through scripture and I read Galatians and I see what the Apostle Paul is trying to help the church of Galatia understand, there's no Jew nor Greek, slave, nor free, we're one in Christ Jesus. That's enough for me. What more do I need to hear? You know? Yeah. Some people say, okay, but we shouldn't be colorblind. Other people say, no, we should be colorblind because of the verse that you just said. Others say, well, no, God made us intentionally with the skin colors that we have. And there are different ethnicities with different backgrounds and cultures. And so what do you think? How should Christians

celebrate our differences without making them primary distinctions? Right. Obviously, you know, I'm melanated and I don't ever walk around trying to deny who I am. Like this, who I am and how God made me is an expression of his glory in the world. And someone else with a, less melanin count, that's his reflection of his glory expressed in them. So I don't, I don't think anyone needs to be colorblind. And then we, in the midst of that color conversation, there are cultural distinctions, things that make us different. White people are different than blacks. And blacks are different than Indians. And Indians are different than, you know, Hispanics. I think we can celebrate our differences. But when you're talking amongst the

brethren, we don't need to ignore our ethnic differences, but we also don't need to elevate them to a level of what I would call ethnic idolatry or narcissism, ethnic narcissism where you view the world through this lens of, I don't even like, I like biblical terms. I'm not even going to say race. Ethnicity, right? Why are you looking at the world in that way? That is something that the page. The do, the unbeliever, because they don't have an identity that's hidden in Christ, they don't have their sins atoned for, they would speak that way. But for the believer, I'm like, well, we can acknowledge those, but we don't need to elevate them to an unhealthy level to where we're now levying charges of sin against others who look different than us just on the basis of because you look

this way, then you must believe or think this way. And I just remember seeing this a lot in 2020 from the pulpit. There was one message of guilt that was given to white congregants. And one message that was given to black congregants. And that message was one of alleviating any responsibility for anything at all that they themselves have done. And then for the white congregants, it wasn't only responsibility for what you have done. But also you should feel some level of shame and guilt for what. some people, not even related to you, but that kind of maybe looked like you 200 years ago did,

you should feel responsible for that. But this group over here should feel responsible for nothing. And this group over here should listen and learn, sit down and shut up. And this group over here, there's basically nothing you can say that's wrong. There's no tone, no level of anger or bitterness or resentment that is unjustified. And I just thought, okay, I don't see a biblical basis for that, especially when we're talking about justice, which is inherently supposed to be blind. Right.

Listen, and I'll say this. I talk about this a lot on my channel. I am tired of my white brethren constantly being made to feel that they have to live under this perpetual condemnation. Right. You were not alive during, you know, the years of the Confederacy or when the KKK was doing whatever they were doing. We're in 2025 now. I think it's time for individuals to be judged or assessed on the basis of what they do as individuals. And it should always be that way.

The people of God should function differently. So when you start hearing Christians espouse ideologies by saying, you can't speak and you can't say you just need to sit out and listen. I'm like, that is so ungodly. where do we find that in scripture this is a sin issue it is a matter of the heart and so i talk about it a lot on my channel i'm i am grateful to god for what he was able to do in my life by showing me my own sin being raised i'm from new york city very urban context if i'm honest i didn't spend a whole lot of time around white people growing up and that wasn't bad it was a reflection of my upbringing. I grew up in the South Bronx. You read the black or Hispanic or some other

of Caribbean descent had a few white teachers. But other than that, I didn't spend a lot of time around white people. And so based on media and what was going on out there in the world, you have these stereotypes that are pushed on you or indoctrinated onto you that you believe and internalize about people who look different from you. And when the Lord save me, that was one of the very first things that he dealt with concerning my heart. Why are you making these assumptions about this person you know nothing about? Are you judging them on the merit of what they've done to you? Or are you pushing these assumptions?

Well, well, you know, that's how white people are. Right? Like that's, that was a heart issue. The Lord healed that and dealt with my heart in such a way that now when I see it in others, I'm like, yeah, you have to lay that down at the foot of the cross. That's, that's just, it's sin. Yeah. It is sin. Quick pause to remind you about share the arrows 2025 brought to you by our friends at Go to Ranchers, y'all. It is going to be amazing. And after the summer, it's going to be here. So if you have not made your plans to come to share the arrows in Dallas,

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I want to hear more about your story. You said that you grew up in New York City. What was your upbringing like? So my parents were married for 10 years before I was even thought of. And then I came along is that change of life baby. My mother's in her 30s. My dad's almost 50. And their marriage lasted until I was four. And so they divorced and it was just myself. I have, you know, two brothers and a sister, older siblings, but all I knew was the matriarchy. I knew grandma, great grandma, mom, sisters, aunties. I had no semblance of an intact home, even though I knew my dad and he was, you know, close by, but we didn't have a very close relationship. And then, you know, you go through life. I'm raised as a Christian in a Christian home doing all of the religious things that you know how to do.

You know, you say your grace. I was in church every day of the week, I felt like. But I had a very strong aversion to the things of the Lord because I spent so much time in church. I was just like, oh my gosh, I'm so sick of these Jesus people. They get all my nerves. I hate. the hypocrisy of it all. And then I go to college. I go to college. And then I get exposed to the prosperity gospel as a freshman at Spelman College. And I thought, this must be what Christianity is all about.

God wants me to be wealthy and rich. And he wants me to live my best life now. Where'd you hear this? Was it at the church? It was. I, the college campus ministry of New Birth, Missionary Baptist. Church, which was pastored by Bishop Eddie Long at the time, had a very robust college campus ministry. Obviously, he was a false teacher. He's no longer alive. But that ministry did a very,

very good job of college outreach. They were sending buses to all of the college campuses, Georgia Tech, Georgia State, Spelman, Morehouse, Morris Brown, Clark, Atlanta. And they were pick up the college students. And I only went because a boy invited me. Okay, I wasn't interested or thinking about God. But in that service, Bishop Long had said something. That weekend, I had just had an abortion that weekend before.

And so I went and to ameliorate or, you know, to provide some sort of palliative care on the guilt that I was experiencing. You know, in the black church context, they opened up the doors of the church. I went down, did a little cry. Looking back, It wasn't a genuine brokenness over my sin.

I just wanted to feel better. And the message of the prosperity and the money, I'd never seen a ministry of that magnitude. I mean, this was a huge megachurch full of black folks with money. I mean, most of us were poor, but you could see the affluence of it all. And that was appealing. And so I go down.

Some people might not know that Eddie Long is a very, like, infamous prosperity teacher who just very blatantly preached, if you sow the seed of faith, if you pray this, they God will reward you with the Bentley, with the mansion, with all of this stuff. And you had never heard that. No. And so it sounds like because you went down after you had had an abortion, there was something in you, either that day or even before that felt that what you did was wrong and that there was some kind of brokenness. So a lot of people might not know that prosperity sermons, there is a mixture of truth in it. So it's a possibility that you heard something that was true that started to kind of prick your heart, but it was also mixed in with this,

well, do this and God will reward you. Right. It was more performative. It was a mixed bag. It was the performance of, I need to do something so that God will accept me. And then it was, oh, this is the key to success in life. And I had never heard the prosperity message before, that all of my problems would, you know, just disappear. And God would be pleased with me if I pursued these things. And so I spent years pursuing that, experienced a lot of more brokenness, a lot of more bad relationships. And this is what's so bothersome and burdensome about that prosperity message, is that it never gets, it never preaches to the heart of the matter that it's your indwelling sin. That's the problem. It makes you look to something else out there as the solution to make things better.

And so after years of doing that, I finally meet the guy who is my now husband and he finds out that I go to new birth. And he's like, yeah, this, that's going to be a no for me. And this was the first person, it wasn't the first person that challenged my thought. about prosperity doctrine, but it was the first person that kind of came to me and just flat out said, that man is a false teacher. And if you think I'm going there, you've got another thing coming. But that intrigued me because I was like, well, what's wrong with him? And he was like, you don't see. And I was like, see what? What's the problem? And so he spent some time just kind of showing me that what he was preaching wasn't in the Bible. And that put me on this

path of questioning a lot of things, a lot of things about what the Bible actually taught concerning giving and our posture to give and prosperity. And through the course of all of that, I would say I did not hear the gospel for the very first time until about 2014, 2015. I was on Facebook and there was an individual who basically was saying, nope, that's not true. you're dead in your sin and your trespasses. God has to make you alive. To you. They were saying that to you.

It was in the course of a very heated debate and exchange over some other false doctrines that I had affirmed that I was like, that's not true. And he was just busting them all up. And I was just like, no, no, no. And what that disagreement did was drive me to the scriptures. And I was brought to my knees in Ephesians 2, where I read, where yes, Paul is explaining to these Ephesian individuals who they are in Christ now, but I'm reading it like, wait a minute, I'm dead in my sin.

Christ made us alive. And I'm reading all of these beautiful gospel-centric messages. And it was at that moment that I recognized that I was sinful and needed my sin atone for in the person and work of Jesus. And I can't pinpoint. It was just a season of me searching through the scriptures about what was true. And then I start questioning everything. I started questioning everything.

Were you married at this point? Yes, I was. So you had moved away from Eddie Long's church because your husband was like, no. Well, to get the guy, like I couldn't date, I couldn't date my husband and be a new birth. So he told you. He said, we're not doing this. He's like, I'm not going. going there. So we were, I had left there and we were on a journey of some other bad churches

that just weren't as bad. But the Lord was using my husband who we now realized that he was an infant in the faith and may not have been able to articulate with, you know, theological clarity, all the things that was wrong. But he knew enough to know that's unbiblical. And if it's not in the scriptures, I can't do it. And then the Lord used that and social media as crazy social media is. The Lord used it in my salvific journey. So I'm grateful for it. Fourth of July is coming.

And it is my favorite holiday. I love Fourth of July. It doesn't mean that I love America more than I love Jesus and his birth. It just means that I love summer. And I am grateful for this great country that God has given us to steward well. And one of my favorite things to do on the 4th of July is to grill out. And what better way to celebrate the United States than to eat meat that is all from America? And that's what you're getting with good ranchers. It's all from American farms and ranches. They've got their better than organic chicken. They've got their craft beef. Did you know that 85% of the grass fed beef that you are getting in the grocery store is actually imported from overseas? Even the package that says made in the U.S. That just means that it was plastic wrapped in the U.S. But when you get your meat from Good Ranchers, you are guaranteed that all of your meat,

all of your seafood is from an American farm or ranch. Right now, if you go to Good Ranchers.com, code Alley, use code Alley, you'll get an extra $40 off. That's good ranchers.com slash alley code Alley. And if you subscribe, you get to pick free meat for life. Go to Ranchers.com slash Alley, Code Alley. So that was 2014, 2015, and that was a season of kind of just understanding, okay, what the gospel is. So I'm guessing when you were going to New Birth, you didn't hear that you were sinful and that you needed a Savior.

So, like, what was being taught? What were, what are the altar calls at this church if it's not like, hey, you're a sinner and Jesus died for you? I don't recall in the years that I was there ever hearing a plain gospel message preached. It was a lot of you were called to win. The motto at New Birth at the time back then was taking authority. So to take authority over your life and your circumstances, we are supposed to be these kingdom people and we're supposed to be conquering and dominating in every spear of life and influence. But it was apart from the work of the spirit.

Like somehow you were doing all these things in your flesh. There was a lot of scripture being ripped out of context, a lot of over-spiritualizing, a lot of estrogen-rich sermons, which appeal to women. Yeah, what do you mean by estrogen-rich sermons? Meaning it was just like, you know, you've been down for so. long and you know you've been dating that guy you know he don't love you i mean it was just it was a lot of preaching to our pain as opposed to saying as as jesus would put it you know the reason why you you love the darkness rather than the light because your deeds are evil it was more of

celebrating and like I said pointing to other things external outside of yourself that were the problem and then providing this connection between season, harvest, favor, breakthrough, and increase. So the seed and then the devil or the enemy, all of these other things that are out there that are against you, you're not going to have to experience those things. anymore. And it was still very performative because you never felt like you were giving enough. Yeah. And then if you gave and God still didn't show up for you, now you're looking at, well, maybe I need to give more money. Did I do my first fruit? Maybe I'm not serving enough. Very performative, very works base. I really thought that we were saved by grace plus works.

And we're, I was a Protestant, right? I didn't understand. I was like, well, what do you mean? Well, we just have to do enough for God to accept us. I did not understand that it was the finished work of what Christ has done. And that if you're doing good works, it's because those good works were prepared beforehand that you should walk in them. I never understood that.

I was just told, just do your best. And hopefully when you get up there, God's going to be like, okay, I'll let you in. Yeah. And that Ephesians 2 passage is just so important. I love Ephesians 2. I think it's my favorite depiction of the gospel too. And how God through Paul goes through so many pains in just those three verses of 8 through 10 to say, this is not your own doing.

It is a gift. Right. No one can boast. You didn't do this on your own. This is by grace through faith. Right. And all those good deeds that you just talked about in verse 10, like God pre-planned those beforehand. So you can't even take credit for the good deeds that you do. And that's what I was

used to, I was used to doing that. Being very performative, checking the boxes, making sure that I was following the rules. Whereas sanctification, it's not, you're, you're not necessarily following the rules, but it's coming from a place of a heart change. It's our heart that is the problem. And I didn't understand that before. And now looking back, post-salvation, I can see, oh, these good works I'm doing. It's because it's God working in me, both to will and to do his good pleasure. And the people around me get to just experience that, but it's a work of the spirit that's actually doing that. You mentioned that you had had an abortion years prior from when you actually were saved and understood the gospel. Can you talk about the redemption?

from that. Did you have to kind of like reckon with that at some point when you realized, oh, wow, that was sin and I need to deal with this? Right. I didn't really deal with that one or the subsequent one in my very early 20s until after the Lord had saved me. Post-abortive women do a very good job of suppressing the truth in their unrighteousness, just trying to block it out and filling the emptiness and the guilt and the shame with other things. And I had several years of doing that, bad relationships, you know, just not trying to find some sort of way to silence the pain that I was experiencing. What I did was, it caused me to double down with a feminist mindset.

So I was very, I was very much a feminist, very liberal. in my thinking, I was pro-choice, even though I knew that that view was incompatible with the scriptures. I had reconciled in my mind that it was somehow okay. And so over the course of some years, once I got saved, the Lord brought those things back to my remembrance and allowed me to go through a series of, or a season, I would say, of healing. but you first have to acknowledge that what you did was sinful. You have to say the words. I was a murderer. You know, this was displeasing to God.

That was life. Those were babies. So the first thing I had to force myself to do was to humanize those image bearers in the womb. And then, you know, you have to express this truth. Some people choose not to do this, but I had a very candid conversation with my now husband. and my children. The best way to teach them about the sinfulness of humankind is to show them that their mama was a sinner, right?

A lot of people can't do that, but God enabled me and strengthened me and equipped me to do that. It's all a part of the story and the journey. But definitely humanizing those image bearers, talking about what I did in very real terms, but then accepting the free grace of God that he bestows upon all those who repent and believe. And then trusting, trusting in what the scriptures actually say. No one is beyond the point of being redeemable. The scriptures have been such a healing bomb for me in that.

And then God was able to bless the fruit of my womb. I didn't think that I would ever be somebody's mama. I did not. I was just like, because that second, that second abortion was so traumatic physically that I just thought that it could not happen for me. Are you able to talk about what happened? Yeah. There was, there is an abortionist in Atlanta by the name of, I don't even have a problem saying his name, Tyrone Maloy, who is harmed and maimed and injured. so many women.

He performs these procedures. I'll sanitize it with no anesthesia. These are not chemical abortions. These are surgical ones without anesthesia. I was given like a muscle relaxer that I don't think kicked in. Very traumatic. Very traumatic. And then within 24 hours, I was in the ER trying to preserve what was left of my

reproductive organs because it was in any. incomplete procedure. I hemorrhaged tremendously. So at that point, I'm thinking, well, you know, getting married and having kids is not, that's not in my future. And so I lived a rebellious life as this single woman, never really committing to anyone because I was just like, well, for what? I'll just chase the career. So I had a very, you know, very prosperous career in the insurance and financial industry. Then I met my husband. And then I conceive. And I'm like, okay, mind you, I'm not a believer at this point. But I knew enough that I said, okay, I'm 26 now. I said, I can't go to a clinic. And we were not married at the time. So obviously we're living this sinful life or whatever.

both thought that you're believers. He's kind of an infant believer with that discernment, but this is when in the season where you're still going to the prosperity church. So you're living a life that you think is Christian, but really is just about you. I was a Christian in name only. Very, very still, very much deceived. But in that deception, there were these moments of clarity

where the moment I found out I was pregnant, I knew what not to do. So for the first time in my life, there was there was conviction of don't do that. And I sat on that floor and I was like, okay, we've got three tests. They're all positive. I guess I'm going to be somebody's mama. And I tell my husband at, well, we were engaged at the time. And he was like, okay, this is what we're going to do.

And then the enemy came in and started putting all kinds of. kinds of things in my life all at one time. I lose my insurance agency. He has a death in the family. There are all of these life issues that were telling me, you need to go and just get rid of this baby. It's too much. It's just too much.

And then I have a health crisis in the middle of that pregnancy that lands me in the hospital. And when I get into the hospital, my fee, well, we had broken up at this point. He looks at me and he's like, no. He was like, I have to be a dad. And we have to figure this out. He's like, we have to figure this out.

Because you were thinking when you had that health crisis that you might still have an abortion? Well, no, at that point, no, I just thought I was going to lose the baby. I thought I was going to lose him because I was, they had me on a morphine drip. And I was like, all the odds are against this kid. But in that moment, something broke. my husband, my fiance, I don't know what he was at the time. It's okay. The guy.

Your current husband. Yes, my current husband, my one-flesh partner, we just, God heals the relationship. And my aunt said something to me. Oh, and then my dad died two weeks after I got out the hospital. Gosh. And then my aunt at the funeral says to me, what's the plan? What are you guys going to do? because, you know, we don't do children out of wedlock in this family.

And I'm like, oh, does she just say that out loud? She said that out loud. And then Robert at the time was like, we're going to work it out. And I'm like, we're going to work it out. And he's like, we're going to work it out. And the Lord worked it out. All of a sudden, all of the big life things that were happening that we thought were the end of the world were so small.

and he starts nesting and then I start nesting and then we end up getting married that December and my son was born in February. Oh my goodness. And then the kids just kept coming. Yeah. How many do you have? We have four altogether. Yeah.

Everyone is almost two years apart. Yeah. So I was pregnant for like six years straight of which I'm sure you already know what that's like. But it was the idea that the Lord blessed the fruit of my woman. when I thought it could not happen. I just thought it just wasn't going to happen. And God was so faithful and merciful and merciful and kind in that. Because I didn't, in my mind, I'm like, I don't deserve this.

How can I be someone's mama? And then he took this feminist, liberal, crazy girl from New York and then turns me in, nothing makes a woman more conservative. then having children, getting married, having children, and becoming a small business owner. Yeah. Those three things did it for me. And I just, not only am I having a spiritual awakening, I have this political awakening too. Because I was like, this is crazy.

I can't be a liberal. These policies are horrible because I'm thinking as a mom now, I'm thinking I've got to protect this baby, and we've got to educate this baby, and I'm concerned about what he's eating. all of a sudden GMOs and organic foods and cloth diapering. But I become completely crunchy overnight. Your audience knows. When I say crunchy, they know what I mean. They know, yeah.

Yeah, I became crunchy. Yeah. So I, Jesus loving, crunchy conservative. That was me. Another quick pause to tell you about one of my favorite sponsors. And that is Carly Jean, Los Angeles. I have been talking about CGLLA for years because I love their clothes so much. They've seen me through so many seasons of life.

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family are the real deal. They love the Lord and it's an awesome company. Go to Carly Jean Los Angeles.com. Use code Allie B for 20% off your next order. That's Carly Jean Los Angeles.com. Code Allie B. I would love to talk a little bit more about your political evolution and when you started to become pro-life and you said that you were. and Obama supporter. And so I don't know where your husband was and all of this, but talk about that a little bit more, how your eyes started to open and you started to consider,

okay, can I be a conservative? Right. Well, my husband's incredibly conservative, but like most black Americans in this country, we may have been raised conservatively, but it never matched our politics. Long story for why it is, can't get into it right now,

but it's just how it kind of is. And so as a new wife and mom, we start seeing these cultural things happening in the world. And my husband is like, oh, heck to the no. Absolutely not. We're not doing that. We don't believe that. And I'm like, we don't.

We don't. And it just, it happened to him before it happened to me. But feminism has always been on my husband's radar as the one thing that was just, destroying this country. And I never even considered myself a feminist, but I was very feminist-minded. And during after Obama's second term, we started seeing economically how liberalism wasn't working for us because we're small business owners now. Two things happened. While we were small business owners, we started to realize that the people who were pouring into us the most,

and helping us economically did not look like us. These people were cheering for us, giving us the cheat code to our industry and how to win. Just like colleagues, people that you knew. Yes, in the industry. So we spent 11 years in the furniture industry. And so that is a generational business. You've got two and three and four generation furniture store owners with multiple locations. And we would go to these professional industry events.

And these people were so nice. We're newbies in the business. And it's not a lot of minorities in that space. Well, it's not a lot of black minorities. There are other minorities that are doing well. But we weren't well represented. And when we're getting there, we're finding out that everything that they kept telling us about how racist America was just was not true.

We were not experiencing it. In fact, we were experiencing the opposite. The ones that were trying to help us weather the 2012, 2013 real estate crisis were the ones who did not look like us and wanted us to win. And so our lived experience wasn't matching all of the hands up, don't shoot, and all of those colloquialisms that we started to see happen. And then as I'm bearing more children, And I am seeing culturally all of these conversations about race.

And I was just like, is this really happening in real life? Because we're not experiencing. I mean, I live in what I call the bastion of melanated Marxism, which is Atlanta. I mean, it's like the crux of colored communism. But I saw around me from the time I got to Atlanta up until the Obama years, all I saw was black prosperity. I saw black people winning, making money, hand over a fist, and there were no white people stopping them. So I was like, what is this stuff Obama is talking about? Like, if I had a son, he'd be like Trayvon.

I'd be like, no, he wouldn't. It didn't match. It didn't match. And that's when I realized, I was like, they are running a sciop on us to make us be more divided when that's not happening. Like I my two boys were born first So when people were saying you know You know as a black mom you have to have the talk with your sons And I'm like why would I need to have that talk with them

Their father teaches them how to respect authority Say yes ma'am no ma'am yes sir no sir They're well-adjusted children I don't believe I'm going to have to have a conversation They weren't driving age But I was like what what is all of these people they're talking about And now that my sons are actually driving age, I still, how we raise them in terms of how you present yourself to the world, how you show up, being respectful, being of good character, following the law. Those are the things that take you far in life.

They have no concept of this victim mentality that was indoctrinated into me because, you. Me and my husband just never, we didn't raise them to view themselves that way. They view themselves as image bearers created in the image of God. And they know that if a man doesn't work, he does not eat. And if you don't provide value to the marketplace based on some gift, skill, talent, or ability, you will probably be poor. But that America is a ladder. And you can start at the bottom rung and work your way up based on your own effort.

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assumptions about white people or maybe about people of all different kinds of ethnicities or they're just like that because they're white or because of their skin color. And I know you talked about in the furniture industry, some of those assumptions were dispelled, but can you unpack that a little bit more? What did that evolution look like for you? What I learned from that, the furniture industry is very gate. It's a gate kept community, meaning to get in, you either have to know someone. Everything is on the hush-hush.

and when I found out that gaining entry into these markets and being able to compete had everything to do with being able to negotiate well, being trustworthy, it had nothing to do with ethnicity. I realized, first of all, I was doing business with a lot of Asians. They care about green. It's all about the green. And I also did a lot of business with East Indians, people from Syria. I mean, High Point Furniture Market is like the furniture capital of the world, and people from every country and nation descend upon High Point to do commerce. No one is thinking about what color you are.

They care about. Do you have the money to buy the product that I have? And if so, can we negotiate the best price? That's all that mattered. And so in my real life experience, I realized that, okay, I have this business and I'm serving the individuals in my community. But on the back end of the business, the ones that are feeding the products and the services that I offer my own community, they didn't look like me. And all they cared about was, what is your community? want to buy? How do they want to style their space? What sells to them? And at the end of the day,

I was able to compete in a marketplace where I was the minority, but I did it in America, in a country where my ancestors at one point weren't allowed to do that. But once we understood the market, the world of capitalism, and free markets as Booker T. Washington taught, people only cared about do you have a product and a service and a way to get paid and is it better than the competitor down the street? And they would do business with me. So that's kind of what dispelled the myths that you had maybe even unknowingly harbored about people who.

I did. Because I just wasn't experiencing it. I mean, I had two second and third generation, you know, as some might even say, you know, oh, those were the rednecks in the south. Sit down across from me, breaking bread and telling me, this is what I did, when I started my business. These are the things that I did that helped me be successful. Here's my number.

You call me if you get stuck and don't, you know, or need any assistance or I'll come down to where you are. These men didn't owe us anything. They didn't look like us, you know, but they had a lot of money and all they cared about was we were equals in the same industry and there's enough out here for everyone. Now, if you want to get into a conversation as to whether they would want my son to date their daughter, okay, we can have a conversation about that. They may not have been accepting of that, but who cares? We don't, and we don't know. And that's, you know, a lot of people have the

assumption. It's like you assume that, oh, because they're white, they would think this, this, and this, but that's the problem with assumptions. Those were the assumptions. Yeah. And I think a lot of us come to these cultural conversations with these deeply held presuppositions, and we'll never know, first of all, why do you even care about when someone else thinks about you, then they don't even know you, right? You love them.

You treat them with dignity and respect. And until they show you otherwise, you don't need to be overly preoccupied and concerned about what they think about you. Why, we're here to please God and God alone, right? We are here to make much of Christ and to be reflections of His glory in the earth by doing good to others. To have these assumptions about other people who don't look like you is very sinful because you're judging based off appearance, right? You're not allowing using any sort of righteous judgments. And so I find that I think Christians, Christians would do well to go to the Lord and repent of the hatred in their heart. Because that's really what this is.

It's hatred in the heart on the basis of ethnicity. And I see it in black people and in white people. There's this crazy Christian nationalism conversation. that I did not see brewing where it's an overcorrection, just like on the woke side, it's an overcorrection of what was, it's their response to the wokeness, but it's so far to the opposite side that it's equally sinful. A certain subset of people who might call themselves Christian nationalist.

There's a whole conversation to be had about what Christian nationalism actually means, what it actually is and who belongs to it. So I don't hear you saying that everyone who might be a nationalist and a Christian is part of that. I thought. I was a Christian nationalist because I was like Christian. I love my country. Christian nationalist. I had no problem with the term on its face until I saw the crazies.

I was like, oh, what most people mean. Right. Well, most we ignorantly, even still, a conversation can be had about being a Christian and having a national identity that you are proud of. I would describe myself as that person. You know, once they start getting into the weeds about, you know, the ethnic things. Preserving a white ethno state and all of that. Yeah, there's that whole other conversation to be had there. But certainly all of us have to repent of any presuppositions that are based on hate or bitterness or resentment because Ephesians 4 tells us to be rid of all of those things.

and that is an obligation for the Christian. You've mentioned, you mentioned in the video in the rebuttal about, you know, all the Eric Mason stuff, that it was very difficult for you to find a solid church in Atlanta. So what did that process look like for you and your husband as y'all left the prosperity movement? It was a journey. And it was, well, one, when you're a new Christian,

you don't even know what to look for. So I, we had a very hard time finding. a solid, a biblically solid church where our family felt that we belonged. So instantly, I took to YouTube because now that I'm this new creation, I know some of the heresies to stay away from, well, that eliminates most of the churches. Most of the churches are going to fall into that category of either crazy, charismatic, unbiblical expressions, or how hyper prosperity or their NAR, the new apostolic reformation. I mean, there's so many different brands of bad doctrine.

We went through three churches before we found a home. We knew what we weren't looking for, but we didn't know what we were looking for. In Atlanta, Atlanta is a theological desert, meaning there are only a select few congregations, and they're all scattered out around the city, which makes it hard, depending. on where you live to find a solid church that preaches from the Bible or if you I can't tell you how many calls I made what what type of sermons I mean I knew at this point I was like okay I'm looking for exposition I need the pastor to preach line by line if not all the time most of the time that was hard to find most of the churches were like what yeah but we don't

even know what that is and then some churches were like, why do you care about that? Like our youth, our youth program is popping. I was like, okay, but my kids need to learn the scriptures. I don't care about, you know, the youth program. So with that controversy, I was able to speak about that, not just from the Atlanta context, but I grew up in church. I know the struggle that is happening within the quote-unquote black church context and it is a desert and a starvation of sound doctrine because the social gospel and the prosperity gospel has basically caused the church, if we were to group it and label it as a church, it's widespread apostasy. I don't apologize for that statement. Now granted, there's widespread

apostasy across a myriad of ethnic expressions, but in the black church context, it's really bad. And so when you said what you said, I was like, oh yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, we have the doctrine. So many pastors are unwilling to just stand on the authority of scripture and preach what accords with down doctrine

because many of them don't know it. It's performative, it is emotionalism, it is, how can I fill these butts in the seats? And whatever I have to do to compromise the message to get those people in those seats, I will do that. We're seeing a lot of that. Patriot Mobile is America's only Christian conservative wireless provider. This is a great way to vote with your dollar.

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service with promo code Allie. That's patriot mobile.com slash alley code alley. What's your encouragement for people who they're either hearing you and maybe they're thinking for the first time. Oh gosh, I didn't realize I believe in the prosperity gospel or they're in the same struggle. They know and they're trying to find the right church and it's hard to do. What encouragement or advice would you give them? The first thing is to get solid on what is the gospel, right? When you have a solid understanding of the gospel, it is very easy to identify a church that is inconsistent with that. And the gospel is this is that we are all sinners.

Adam sinned and we are fallen sons and daughters of Adam. And because of that sin, we must be reconciled to a righteous and holy God who can't look upon sin. And so because sin is the problem, there has to be a righteous substitute. sin must be atoned for because the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus. So the only one who qualified to atone for the sins of his people is the sinless Savior,

and his name is Jesus. And our salvation doesn't come by doing good works or, you know, helping little old ladies across the street or making sure that, you know, you're not sleeping with your boyfriend, but you're doing something else. No, salvation comes by believing that the finished work of what Christ accomplished on that cross for his people can be applied to you by faith. Believing in what Christ has done, that is the message of the gospel.

So if you are caught up in a message of prosperity that says God wants you healthy and rich and to live your best life now, the bad news is this is, this is, is as good as it's going to get for those who die apart from Christ. You, eternal life, living in eternity with your creator can only come through faith in Jesus. Yes. Amen. That is the starting point for all of it. Thank you so much, April. And people can find your YouTube channel just by typing in your name, April Chapman, right? Yes, April Chapman or Unshakeable with April. I'm on all platforms under that moniker. Awesome. Well, everyone, subscribe to her channel, support her. April, thank you so much.

Thank you. Love you.