Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1217 | Chip & Joanna Gaines Go All In on Gay Marriage

Starting point is 00:00:00 Chip and Joanna Gaines are the executive producers of a new reality TV show that is prominently featuring a gay couple and their surrogacy-born sons. When they received backlash from many Christian conservative fans, Chip Gaines decided that he would double down. We will go into all of this today as well as the background that makes this really significant on today's episode of Relatable. It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use code Alley at checkout. That's good ranchers.com code Alley. Hey guys, welcome to Relatable.

Starting point is 00:00:47 Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. It is great to be back in the studio with you all. You guys are loving the episode that I put out with Lila last Friday. We are already planning hopefully a part two on Lila's show. I appreciated all of your positive feedback. I was a little. nervous to put out that episode just because not everyone handles the tinseness of disagreement well

Starting point is 00:01:15 as an audience member. For example, my mom texted me after and was like, are you and Lila still friends? And I was like, yes, we are still friends. And Lila's, you know, she's really good at disagreeing and then coming together in a respectful way. And I would like to think that I am as well. And so I really enjoyed that. There's so much that I wish that we could have gotten to. And in hindsight, I kind of just wish that we would have extended it, but we were on a really tight schedule that day. And so it was hard to do. But there's so much that I wish, you know, I would have asked that I would have said. And maybe Lila feels the same. That's always true in discussions and debates. And so if you're thinking like, why didn't you say this? Why didn't she go there? Trust me. Like there, if you've ever done some kind of like discussion or debate or even like personal argument with someone, there's always something afterward that you wish that you had said or said. said differently, but nevertheless, I do appreciate y'all's feedback, especially those of you who are kind and appreciated the respectful tone of the discussion. So we'll be back with more on that soon. Also, because it's Monday, I just want to give a little bit of encouragement before we get

Starting point is 00:02:26 into what I think is a very sad and disturbing story today. And that is the only thing that you are responsible to do today is the will of God. I love that quote from Elizabeth Elliott. It always gives me so much comfort. And when you don't know what that is, all you can ever do, all you have the capacity to do is the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God. That part is not from Elizabeth Elliott. That's just kind of an add-on from one of her quotes that we've said many times over the years. It is a comfort to me. I like to start out my week with that mentality. And I hope it's a comfort to you as well. All right, let's talk about Chip and Joanna Gaines. So many of y'all have been asking me to comment on this story.

Starting point is 00:03:07 over the weekend. I've only said a little bit on X. I haven't given my full take and full analysis on Instagram. I wanted to gather all of the relevant information, collect myself, and give the best and most biblical response that I can. Chip and Joanna, if you didn't know, are the stars of that HGTV show, Fixer Upper. They're the owners of Magnolia. This is a lifestyle brand. They sell a lot of their products in Target, and they also have a magazine, they've got a TV network, and Magnolia is now partnering with HBO for a new show that aired on July 10th called Back to the Frontier, and this show prominently features a gay couple. It is a reality show. There are three different families that are trying to rough it in a frontier-type set. And,

Starting point is 00:04:06 like they're living in the 1800s, and one of the families is two men and two boys that they purchased via surrogate. And we will get into more details about that family in a second. But understandably, there has been a lot of concern expressed and a lot of backlash because Chip and Joanna Gaines have been prominent and outspoken Christians since they rose to fame several years ago. Fixer Upper started in 2013 and very quickly they made their faith public. They did interviews where they talked about the importance of their faith. It was very obvious that they loved each other. I think that's something that a lot of Christians really liked that even on networks like HGTV or TLC, you would see a lot of just strife and disrespect within marriages and kind of making the dad look, you know, stupid or not respected, not loved. I mean, think of something

Starting point is 00:05:12 like John and Kate plus eight. Terrible, awful discord in that relationship. And you saw this very cute, very attractive Christian couple that simply like to flip houses primarily in Waco, Texas, who just kind of like fit the bill for the kind of people that we would be friends with, that like Southern evangelicals would be friends with and would want to hang out with. And that is why they gained such a huge following. At the very beginning, it was like almost exclusively these Southern conservative Christians who were like, yes, that represents me, represents my family. And they also just seem like really cool, awesome people that.

Starting point is 00:05:57 share our values. How cool. And so these people now, they feel betrayed, not only because their show that they are executive producers of is highlighting a family that is engaged in what God calls sin, but also because Chip Gaines has decided to double down on this after people raised a very respectful ruckus. They raised their very legitimate concerns. ask totally valid questions. He is responding to that backlash, that criticism, that pushback with abject condescension. And that is really sad to see. So we're going to back up a little bit, talk about the details of this, talk about the backlash, and talk about who these people are that Chip and Joanna Gaines, who claim to be very strong Christians, have intentionally decided

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Starting point is 00:09:43 This is the only Christian women's conference like this one. Go to sharethe arrows.com. That's share the arrows.com. Okay, let's get in a little bit more into a little bit more about the details of this show. So Chip Gaines posted on next. Y'all are going to love this show, social experiment, plus family time well spent and then posted the picture of Back to the Frontier. It's an eight-episode reality TV series and social experiment produced by Magnolia Network, streaming on HBO Max. The show follows three modern American families, the lopers from Alabama, the halls, the Hannah Riggs from Texas, who live as 1880s homesteaders for eight weeks on 10,000 acres in Canada.

Starting point is 00:10:36 They don't have electricity or any water, and they're raising in livestock. And so just trying to see if they can survive, you know, going through the hardships that they have without the modern conveniences. The gay couple that is featured in this show, their names are Jason and Joe, and they have twin 10-year-old sons. And as I said, they were born via surrogacy. That is a subject that we have talked about many, many times on this show. And when we get more into the story that they have publicly shared, I will share, if you're new here, my concerns. Not only about practicing surrogacy, but also promoting it by normalizing the story. by normalizing this kind of family setup.

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Starting point is 00:11:47 Alexa. Good morning. I'm Jason Hanna. My name is Joe Riggs. We have our twin boys, Ethan Lucas, that are 10 years old. All right. So that is Jason and Joe. Now, in an interview with an LGBTQ outlet called Queer T, Jason, one of the guys

Starting point is 00:12:12 explained that they decided to apply for this show because they wanted to normalize same-sex relationships. Here's not too. I first saw the flyer on social media. There was a gay couple on the flyer. And so they initially kind of sparked my interests. And I was very much intrigued and learning more about the show and kind of what that experience was going to be. I was super honored that when they were choosing three modern day families, that they did choose the same size couple as a modern day family because we are. And we are your neighbors and your coworkers.

Starting point is 00:12:47 And so it was this great, amazing opportunity to know. normalize same-sex couples and same-sex families. I was on board with the whole concept of continues to normalize same-sex families. I think through our Instagram through our $2 dad's account, that's one of the reasons we put ourselves out there because of our adoption issues. Yeah, they say adoption there, but actually later we learned that it wasn't adoption. If the reporting is actually correct that it was surrogacy, which is a big difference as we'll get into. But just a couple things there, I also want to highlight. So number one, there, there may be mission is to normalize forced motherlessness, which is the forcing of a child to live without

Starting point is 00:13:30 their mother. And that is what is going on here, of course. And so they wanted to glorify that. They wanted to expand their platform so that more people could see this kind of relationship and more people could think, okay, maybe a mom is unnecessary. Maybe a husband can become a wife and maybe a dad can become a mom. I mean, it is functional transgenderism, even if people aren't actually identifying as the opposite sex. They are certainly identifying as the opposite gender role. And it's the same math thinking husbands and wives and moms and dads are interchangeable is

Starting point is 00:14:08 the same math as thinking men and women are interchangeable. So they are hoping to normalize that. And number two, I want to highlight that they saw a flyer with a gay couple on it. So that means from the get-go, they were trying, Magnolia Network, along with HBO, they were trying to attract a gay couple. It's not one of those things where, okay, they weren't looking for that. They just stumbled upon this, you know, exceptionally charismatic couple. And they just said, okay, we have to go with them. Not that I would think that's a justification for, you know, Christian executive producers to do.

Starting point is 00:14:44 But that's not how it happened. And from the get-go, that's what they were looking for. And if you don't think that Chip and Joanna had a say in that, or at least knowledge of that and confirmed that, then you're crazy. Or maybe you just don't understand the level of influence that they have as the executive producers of this show. Now, we know that HBO is as progressive as it gets. And so I wouldn't be surprised if HBO is saying, okay, we have to meet this diversity

Starting point is 00:15:15 criteria. This is what we're going to do. But I promise you as well that Chip and Joanna at any point in these negotiations could have said no. I'm sorry, we're just not going to do that. We're not going to be able to fulfill those quotas. Maybe they could have said we're fine with a racial diversity, but this is what our faith says. And we're just not willing to compromise on that. Understand HBO, if you don't want to work with us, but we cannot put our name on something that is celebrating and normalizing what our faith, what the God that we believe in, believe in calls sin. That was an option. Okay.

Starting point is 00:15:50 We don't have to know every single detail of the behind-the-scenes negotiations to be able to deduce that. So from the beginning, this was being advertised. And this now is a guess. But I wouldn't be surprised if these people said in their application process, said in their interview process, this is our mission. We want to normalize this. We think this is good. This is a different kind of family where we don't have a mom for our children and we want more people to see this as good and right and true. I guarantee you that Chip and Joanna at some point were told that that was the mission.

Starting point is 00:16:28 And still at that point, apparently, they still didn't say anything. They didn't say, you know what, that's just not a mission that we can get behind. apparently it was a mission that they decided that they were ready to celebrate as well. So a little bit more about this couple. They are no stranger to headlines and I guess seeking some kind of platform and notoriety. They made headlines in 2014 when they fought to get their names on the birth certificates of their twin boys, Ethan and Lucas, that were born via surrogacy. They face legal challenges and being recognized as parents in the state of Texas. So each man is the biological father of one twin, but due to Texas's ban on gay marriage at the time,

Starting point is 00:17:16 a judge, this is pre-Obergefeld, it's crazy how quickly things have moved. A judge denied their request to be listed on the twins' birth certificates or to co-adopt each other's biological child. Instead, only the surrogate mother, who actually had no biological connection to the twins, was listed on the birth certificates. This left the couple with no legal rights to each other's child. They were able to petition a judge in 2015 after a burgomphal. And so they were able to, you know, put their names on the birth certificate, I assume, after that. Okay, if you don't know anything about surrogacy, we will link some of my past episodes about it. It is very important for you to know what is going on in this world thousands of times a year. So all surrogacy involves some of

Starting point is 00:18:07 these steps, but especially with two men, since no one in that relationship can make or carry a baby, you need women to be able to do that. And so if you've got two men who want children that are biologically related to one of them, or if they want multiple kids, biologically related to both of them, what they have to do is one pick an egg seller. You've probably heard the term egg donor that is actually a misnomer. That woman is getting paid a lot of money for her DNA, for her eggs. So they might pick her out of a catalog. In rare cases, they might know the egg donor, but very often they can actually go to these clinics that provide a catalog that you can pick all different kinds of characteristics that the egg donor has that you want passed down to your

Starting point is 00:18:53 child. And then you pick a separate woman. And that woman is called the surrogate. And that is the womb that you are renting. Again, you are paying that woman tens of thousands of dollars. This is not an altruistic act that this woman is doing. She is getting paid. And I don't know the specific details of their setup, but this is how it goes. She's getting paid for her body and for her time and for her literal labor. And so the egg from the egg cellar is inseminated with the sperm of one of the guys. And they create as many eggs as they can.

Starting point is 00:19:31 And from there, they go through the IVF process, which typically involves grading, or sorry, embryos, not eggs. It typically involves grading the embryos to see which is healthiest. They can even decide on gender. They can discard the embryos that don't have the characteristics that they want. And then they transfer the embryos of the gender, of the strength that they want into the womb of the. of the surrogate who is pumped with all kinds of artificial hormones. So her body will try to accept this foreign object and will actually accept and grow the pregnancy. And so you're paying two separate women.

Starting point is 00:20:18 You're discarding all kinds of embryos. Also two men can do what God created them not to be able to do. And that is have biological children without. a mother that is raising them. As I said, this is forced motherlessness. This is a social experiment in which we are laying the well-being of children on the altar of adult desire. And there is nothing more disordered than that.

Starting point is 00:20:49 Demanding children who cannot consent to this motherlessness to sacrifice their innate needs, their biological longing for their mother. in service to the desires, the disorder desires of adults that is wrong. I'm not saying these people don't love their kids. I'm not saying they don't take care of their kids. They could be good dads. The problem is they're not a mom. And every child has a right to a mother and a father.

Starting point is 00:21:19 And so, I mean, even aside from the homosexuality, which God clearly calls sin, and we can get into that in a second, we are also normalizing and glorifying a process that commodifies the bodies of women, that commercializes the reproductive process, and that, again, exploits the vulnerability of children. And Christians are called to care for the fatherless. And in this case, we're talking about a motherless child, which to me seems like it would go in the same biblical category as fatherlessness that is a category of vulnerability that Christians are called to care about. Man, this is such an enormous fail on the part of Chip and Joanna Gaines and it makes me really sad. And we'll get into more of it in just a second.

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Starting point is 00:23:49 I think that's significant because they know the standards that HBO has. and I'm sure HBO pays really good money, but they know that this would be part and parcel of what they do. And I just really don't see, I don't see the justification that they could have made in their minds for this. I mean, there are some things that I'm like, okay, I don't see it that way. I don't think that's the best witness, but maybe that's working for them. maybe that mode is working for them. It is hard for me to understand how they could have excused this in their mind. So as I said, Chip Gaines is doubling down on this after he's received pushback.

Starting point is 00:24:41 So he posted this. He said, talk, ask questions, listen, maybe even learn too much to ask of modern American Christian culture. judge first understand later slash never it is a sad sunday when non-believers have never been confronted with hate or vitriol until they are introduced to a modern american christian i mean what left-wing secular slop i mean seriously that is just the propagandist of the secular slop that i have ever heard oh my goodness okay so here's what he's responding to what he is saying is judgment and vitriol and hate that is represented apparently by modern American Christians.

Starting point is 00:25:29 Megan Basham, this apparently is hateful, according to Chip Gaines. This is incredibly disappointing, she says to the report that they are highlighting this gay couple. Not particularly surprising. When the Gaines has chose to stay silent through Target's promotion of transgender merchandise to children, they, of course, have a massive target retail line. It was pretty clear that they had little interest in being. a public witness anymore. Highlighting their faith early in their business building helped get them where they are, but they don't need to do it anymore. It is indeed very sad. You know, Megan Basham,

Starting point is 00:26:02 she talked about how she was like such a raving fan of them and used to write articles about them for World Magazine. She felt like so many people did it at the time that, yes, this is an awesome Christian family loving, fun loving couple that is building this amazing. an empire in Waco that we want to support because they're being a light in the world. And so I think she's genuinely expressing this disappointment, that this is sad, that this feels like betrayal. You know, we saw this a lot in 2020 with some of the so-called Christian celebrities that decided suddenly they hated white evangelicals, that white evangelicals who voted for Trump were the problem when it was white evangelicals who boosted a lot of their careers for so long. Like I'm thinking of,

Starting point is 00:26:52 well, maybe I won't say the names because I don't have the direct quotes from what they're saying, but there were quite a few Christian artists and Christian authors who back in 2020 decided that they were going to lambast all of the white Christian conservatives out there. Well, those were the very people that helped them gain a platform because they supported their message. And it just feels like that's what's happening. I mean, literally, if you take conservative Christians out of the world, Chip and Joanna don't exist. Magnolia Network does not exist. There's just not enough. There's not quite enough. I'm not saying they don't have a diverse ideological audience. They do now, but there's not enough of those people that support Magnolia for them to have grown the empire that they do. And by the way, if you don't know,

Starting point is 00:27:39 it really is an empire. Like Magnolia is huge. People will pilgrimage to Waco. Just, to see Magnolia. I've personally never been there, but I know people who have traveled from out of state to go because it's really cool and it's really beautiful. And obviously, Joanna especially is just so talented and has this amazing sense of style that can appeal to so many different kinds of people and the impact that they've had on Waco. And by the way, after these last two episodes, criticizing Chip and Joanna gains his decision and criticizing Baylor's decision, I think I'm probably going to be, like, banned from Waco. I'm not going to ever be able to go there. But it's interesting. Actually, that was a conversation I had with my team before last Wednesday's

Starting point is 00:28:25 episode about Baylor University. I asked, like, the politics of Waco has Waco shifted because, not only of Baylor, but also because of Tipp and Joanna Gaines. And they're a liberalizing effect on the spaces they occupy. And I do believe they have a liberalizing effect on the spaces they occupy, which we'll get into in just a few minutes. So the LGBTQ lobby came for Chip and Joanna Gaines because they didn't feature gay couples on fixer-upper back in 2016. And so people called them homophobic, like it was this whole scandal. And Megan Basham quote tweeted a Chip Gaines post from December of 2016, where Chip says in times of trouble, you'll find the Gaines family at church. Megan said, this is what you said in 2016.

Starting point is 00:29:14 What happened to this man? Franklin Graham, and I was really appreciative that Franklin Graham spoke up about this because I don't really see him, you know, often speaking up specifically about what's going on, like in the culture war on a day-to-day basis. He more posed about like kind of bigger picture things, but I really appreciated that he said something. He said, I hope this isn't true, but I read today that Chip and Joanna Gaines are, featuring a gay couple in their new series. If it is true, it is very disappointing. While we are to love people, we should love them enough to tell them the truth of God's word. His word is absolute truth.

Starting point is 00:29:47 God loves us, and his design for marriage is between one man and one woman. He's absolutely right. That is the crux of the matter, that God is love. And if we are to love other people, we tell them the truth. Katie Faust says, you are promoting a household where two men custom ordered to motherless boys. That is true. Maybe you thought you were being kind or inclusive to the adults, but you're actually complicit in, quote, causing the little ones to stumble. Matt Walsh, Chip and Joanna Gaines produced a new reality show that prominently features a gay male couple with two children. Chips response to the Christians who rightly criticized decision is to, of course, condemn them as hateful bigots. And that is just true. That's exactly what he did. Joel Berry had a back and forth

Starting point is 00:30:36 with Chip Gaines. Joel Berry is of the Babylon B, very solid Christian. We've had him on the show. Joel said, you'll see no hate from me. I'm just sad. So this is in response to what Chip said about, oh, so much hate, so much judgment, so much vitriol. The world isn't seeing hate until they, you know, see what Megan Basham says and Katie Fowse says, the tweets that I just read you, which of course are not actually hateful. They're not judgmental. They are doing what Christians are called to do, and that is agreeing with God. That is calling what God says is good, good, and calling what God says is bad bad, which apparently Chip and Joanna don't believe in doing, at least right here in this context just to give them, you know, try to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Starting point is 00:31:15 So Joel, in response to that, says, you'll see no hate from me. I'm just sad. I can't let my kids watch your show now since I'm trying to protect their eyes and hearts from the lies of the world. Wise you are now participating in. Also, filter out some of the online vitriol and consider taking to heart some of the substantive concerns and heartbreak from the Christians who make up your fan base. We should love the sinner. That doesn't mean we celebrate and promote this in and participate in the multi-billion. dollar industry dedicated to destroying the family. Chip Gaines, very flippantly says, and he could, by the way,

Starting point is 00:31:42 not respond at all. I think that would be fine. But he says, don't be sad, Joel. Plenty of other stuff out there. I'm sure everyone will be fine. But I sincerely appreciate the advice about taking some of the thoughtful, encouraging constructive criticism to heart. Okay. And Megan Basham, I don't have it in front of me, but I just remember she responded, like, we're not sad because we have one less show to watch. we're sad because you are promoting something that God says eats the body and soul, consumes it, destroys it. And that is sad. And people have a reason to be disappointed about that.

Starting point is 00:32:18 And the flippancy and the callousness and the condescension in the responses is a really bad indicator. Brittany says, I was at Baylor at the same time as Chip. I sat under Siebert's teaching that is their pastor, I think, at Antioch Church. in Waco, this is so surprising and disappointed. They're still at the church. I would expect Sebert to address it. Chip said, did we meet? There's so much going on, stuff that really matters.

Starting point is 00:32:41 Don't be too disappointed over this, Brittany. He puts in scare quotes. TV shows will come and go, you know. I know that he's trying to trivialize this. It probably makes him feel a little bit better. And I'm sure that Chip and Joanna have people in their lives who are making them feel really good

Starting point is 00:32:57 and making them feel like, don't listen to those backwards hillbillies, you know, the kind of people. that occupy places like Waco and the rest of Texas. Don't listen to those extremists, those radical people. That's not Jesus. That's not love. Jesus never talked about this.

Starting point is 00:33:14 We're just supposed to love people. That's all you're doing. Never apologize for being radically empathetic and inclusive and loving. That is exactly, like you've shown God to me. I know they have people in their life who are telling them that, who are making them feel completely callistic conviction. That is such a dangerous place to be. It's such a dangerous place to be.

Starting point is 00:33:33 of us have been in a place where the affirmation of the world is so appealing and it is so attractive and because we want to feel good about our sin and we want to justify our rebellion we take on the opinions of those who will affirm our sin and who will even make our sins sound righteous and make our sins sound godly and loving oh my goodness that is so seductive it is so tempting for anyone. And yet, that path not only leads us in a hellacious direction, it leads others to hell. John Root said on X, why are you promoting homosexuality as a Christian? Why compromise on the Bible's clear teachings on this? Why support homosexuals buying kids? Disappointed would be an understatement. Chip Gaines then quotes the verse from John Root's bio, which is 1st Peter 315,

Starting point is 00:34:28 but in your heart to revere Christ as Lord. It goes on to say, do this with gentleness and respect. And John Root said, it's my favorite verse. You're trying to use it against me. Chip Gain said, I didn't try to use it against you. I did use it against you. It's pretty weird to have a life verse that has specific messaging and instruction that you don't even come close to applying. How did he not come close to applying it?

Starting point is 00:34:49 I didn't see him being disrespectful. I didn't see him lacking gentleness. He asked some very important questions that any Christian should, want to wrestle with. And again, he could have just not responded to any of these things, but he chose to respond very specifically, very directly, and very condescendingly. All right. We've got more on this and who they are in kind of their background, because I know a lot of you are thinking this shouldn't be a surprise. They've compromised for a long time. This is who they are. and I would say like yes and no to that.

Starting point is 00:35:27 We have seen some signs. I've talked about it on this show. But I also think that there is a reason for people to kind of be shocked by this and to have their disappointment be like fresh or be renewed at least. But let me pause and tell you about our next sponsor. It's WeHeart Nutrition. Love WeHeart Nutrition so much. I use their products every single day. I use their postnatals, their omega-3s.

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Starting point is 00:37:07 And that's what I've been saying for the past few years when they were, you know, pushing so hard at this radical pride stuff. And they've backed off so much in the past couple of years, which I'm so grateful for. I think largely because you decided that you were going to take your money elsewhere, at least for the month of June, while they were pushing the most radical and extremist stuff. And I think they've realized, okay, that's not where the country is. That's not where our customers are. And then, of course, when Trump won the election, that was an even further indicator of, okay, yeah, maybe we pushed a little bit too hard. But let us just

Starting point is 00:37:40 like walk down memory lane for a second and look at what Target was promoting in the summer of 2023 and then how it is relevant to Chip and Joanna Gaines. So back in 2020, Target was selling pride swimsuits that were tuck friendly. Now, these seem to be targeted towards adolescents, but maybe you could say they're for adults. It doesn't matter. So tuck friendly, if we want to get a little bit graphic, that's for men who want to identify or appear as women.

Starting point is 00:38:12 And so they've got to tuck their anatomy away to try to look more female. So this is what Target was selling in their stores prominently just to. years ago. They were also selling compression tops, which are really tight sports bras for women who are trying to identify as the opposite sex. Again, it's kind of difficult to know is this targeted towards adolescence or not because it's all kind of like rainbow and, you know, like the trans flag is baby colors. And so I think actually the obscuring of those lines is purposeful when it comes to this kind of activist. But they're actually serious health problems that come with compressing your breasts, especially as an adolescent.

Starting point is 00:39:00 And Target was selling this. Target was selling trans flags. They partnered with a brand called Abprellin, UK. And we talked about this at the time selling, you know, trans flags on fanny packs and T-shirts. And this person also had blatantly satia. Satan worshipping products, not that they were selling at Target, but that they were selling elsewhere. And Target, of course, knew that and still partnered with them. All kinds of bathing

Starting point is 00:39:33 suits and underwear and pro trans t-shirts. And they got huge backlash for this. And at the time, I did an episode asking why Chip and Joanna Gaines hadn't spoken about it. They have such a prominent partnership with Target. And I said, and I still believe, that public figures do not have the responsibility to comment on everything. I don't think Chip and Joanna Gaines are responsible for what Target puts out. I don't think they were a part of that collaboration. I don't think they advised on it. I don't even think they said, yeah, Target, you go.

Starting point is 00:40:07 I don't know. Maybe I'm giving too much of the benefit of the doubt there. But the reason I think that they had the responsibility to say something about it is because they had not been silent about other cultural issues that they had cared about. In 2020, Joanna Gaines posted the Black Square saying that she was committed to listening and learning. They did uncomfortable conversations with a black man, which was a series by Emmanuel Occo. That series pushed the lies of systemic racism of critical race theory of white fragility and white privilege over and over again. He also has pushed the lie of being a reasonable pro-abortion or pro-choice person as a

Starting point is 00:40:50 Christian. So just again, progressive, slop and nonsense that is, you know, covered with Christian-sounding language. And so they participated in that. There were several articles that reported, including at the Today Show website today.com, where in 2021, Chip and Joanna said, you know, the thing that really keeps them up at night, Joanna said specifically, what eats my lunch is people thinking that, you know, we don't like LGBTQ people. or that we're racist that is so far from who we are. And of course, no Christian wants to be seen as that. I'm not saying that they should want to be seen as hateful. I understand why that bothers them. But what I am saying is that they really care what the world thinks about them in this way, at least,

Starting point is 00:41:37 at least according to their own words. They seem to care about that. They've spoken up about issues that they see as justice issues, as they see as affecting negatively the like a marginalized population. And yet they were not willing to speak up publicly for the pushing of an ideology that is literally butchering the bodies of gender confused children and permanently sterilizing them, sexualizing children who say that they're confused about their gender. I mean, they were partnering with the prominent entity doing that, and they didn't speak up about that. But they did speak up about the nebulous concept of racism possibly causing George Floyd's death. And I just think that's an interesting choice.

Starting point is 00:42:25 Like if you're going to speak into the culture war, it seems like speaking into the gender nonsense that, again, is mutilating children's bodies and damaging their minds and souls. Like it seems like that would be a good one to speak up about, especially when that battle was raging. But they chose not to. There are also people around them that are very pro-LGBQ that they've worked with in the past. And this is all public, by the way, Clint Harp that they've worked with for a long time. Very outspoken. Kamala Harris, Biden supporter. and then you also have this person that they used to work with.

Starting point is 00:43:10 His name is Billy Jack Brunner. And he actually, I have no idea who this person is. I don't think I've ever interacted with him. Did not know who he was, but he apparently blocked me on Instagram. And we don't have to get into like his entire story. I just think that this particular post is very telling. And I had someone verified that this is actually a comment by Joanna Gaines, that this is real. So he posted, you know, he was married to a woman, has several children with her, and now he has come out as gay and is in love with a man. And he has a caption on Instagram from 2021 explaining this. He said, I'm learning, I was a gay little boy who grew up hating myself. I'm a gay man who is learning to love myself. I am so good. I'm raising babies who are so good. My best friend on the planet who is so good. I'm in love with a man who is so good. My life is so good. And Joanna,

Starting point is 00:44:04 Gaines commented, yes, you are so good. We love you. So I just think that that's probably a good indicator of where their heart is and where their mind is when it comes to the LGBTQ issue. They are going to, when it comes to their public statements, at least recently in the past few years, they are going to lean left. They simply are. At least that's what it seems. They are going to lean secular. There are a few other connections that they have, people that they are friends with who are very outspoken about being pro transgenderism. For example, one half of the Johnny Swim duo that they are really good friends with.

Starting point is 00:44:51 Amanda Sudano has recorded a song promoting transgenderism. That doesn't, that alone, that connection does not mean that Chip and Joanna gains are pro transgenderism. But again, I think there's a lot of. are all pretty good indicators of where they stand on this. So maybe you love that. Maybe you love where they stand on all of that and maybe you are right there with them. And maybe that's what you want to promote and what you think needs to be glorified and celebrated and normalized. And you are totally free. Like there is a market for you. You will get the kind of content that you're looking

Starting point is 00:45:26 for. And if you are someone who is in the content creating space, there is a lot of money there. You will get the accolades, you will get the mainstream support. And you might even tell yourself if you're Christian, the more mainstream you are, the more opportunity you have to share the gospel with people. And you might even see that God is giving you these partnerships with all of these entities and giving you money and giving you fame because he is approving of what you do. And he is approving of the choices you make. And that is a very, very dangerous place to be. You can. do that. You have the freedom to do that. That is not the space that Christians occupy, however. That is not the thinking that people who love Jesus have. You can think that way. You can completely

Starting point is 00:46:16 disagree with me. And you can, as Chip Gaines does, define judgment and define hate exactly like the world does. And you can believe, like so many do, that you are nicer than God, that you have found a way to out compassion God, to out empathy God, to out inclusion God, and to out love God. You can believe that. Just know that in believing that you've exchanged the God of Scripture for the God of self because you think that you are better and wiser than God is. That what God calls sin, the things he says is sin. That's just too mean. And God didn't really know what he was talking about when he said that. And so let's just ignore. of those parts. Let's use our own strategy to try to maybe evangelize to people and love people.

Starting point is 00:47:05 And let's see how that works. You can do that. I don't think it's going to lead you in the right direction. So I'll end on what the Bible has to say about all of this in just a second. Let me pause and tell you about our last sponsor for the day. And that is crowd health. One of the most important things you can do, especially today, is to take ownership of your health. That is, maybe one of the most important decisions that you can make for your family. And I'm not just talking about what you consume. I'm also talking about the coverage that you get for health emergencies and the health care you need.

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Starting point is 00:48:49 Crowdhealth is not insurance. Opt out of insurance. Take your power back. And this is how you win for your family. Go to join crowdhealth.com code alley. Sadly, it seems, it appears this way, based on his public statements. And I would have maybe been willing to give more of the BOD had it not been for his doubling down and his condescension.

Starting point is 00:49:16 But it seems that Chip Gaines has bought into the lie that condemning sin is mean. And that agreeing with God is judgmental and hateful. And that to me reveals that he is not. defining judgment and hate the way that God defines these things, but he is judging them. He is defining them how the world defines these things. And here was my response to Chip Gaines on X. Chip, you can't outlove God. God is love, which means two things. One, he gets to define it. Two, everything he says and does, he says and does in love. And 1st Corinthians, 136, this God who is love, who defines love, tells us what love looks like. And he says that love,

Starting point is 00:50:10 among other things, never rejoices in wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. By choosing this, you are rejoicing in wrongdoing and rejecting the truth, by choosing to glorify that which God calls sin, a disordered desire that hurts the body and soul of those who are ruled by it. Romans 1.26 through 32. Thus you are neither loving God nor loving people by this decision. If God is loved, then in love he created marriage as exclusively between one man and one woman. This is the only kind of marriage God calls good. Jesus affirms this in Matthew 19, 4 through 5. Every kind of sexuality outside of this union he calls sin. Sin hurts people and it angers the God you say you serve. The least loving thing possible is to normalize it. Remember, the most loving thing we can do in every

Starting point is 00:51:10 situation is agree with God. Disagreeing with God is no small deal. Encouraging others to disagree with God is an even bigger deal. I seem to remember something about a millstone, something to keep in mind. And of course, I am referencing Matthew 18, 6 through 7, where Jesus says, but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, and many scholars believe that he's actually not talking specifically about children, but he's talking about his followers, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. Wow, that sounds terrible. We're not supposed to be seeking accolades and affirmation from the world.

Starting point is 00:52:06 In fact, James 4.4 says, you adulterous people, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore, whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. And wow, I just want you to know that as I'm reading these scriptures, I'm not just thinking, wow, all those bad people out there. No, the Word of God convicts me. and may it always convict me and may it shoot me all the way to the heart so that I read these verses too and am reminded that friendship with the world is enmity with God. But I think the more money you have, the more difficult it is to remember this. I think that's why we read that it is actually easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Think about that than it is for a rich man

Starting point is 00:52:56 to enter the kingdom of heaven. But remember, the verse after the third, says, but with God, all things are possible. So it's not impossible, but you can see how it's difficult, right? Mark 836 says, for what does it profit a man to gain the whole world? To gain all the money, all the success, all the fame, all the inroads into the mainstream, all the affirmation from celebrities, and forfeit his soul. 1 Timothy 6.10, for the love of money, this could be true for a richer or poor person, by the way, for the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils it is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many panks this is an important verse john 1518 okay this is again for all of us for all of us to remember if the world hates you know that it has hated me before it hated you that's what jesus says that's what we can

Starting point is 00:53:57 we can expect to be called names we can expect to be misunderstood we can expect to be labeled a bigot or hateful or judgmental because we say that god's way is better remember the most controversial verse in the bible i think is genesis one one in the beginning god created the heavens in the earth because if he is the creator over all of it then he is the authority over all of it if he is the authority over all of it then he and he alone it's to say what is and what isn't, what's right and what's wrong, what's good and what's bad, what a marriage is and what it's not. If we believe that God is the creator, if we believe that he is the authority, if we believe that he is who he says he is, if he really is the alpha

Starting point is 00:54:47 and the omega, if he really is love as 1 John 4-8 says, then the only thing that we can do as people who say that we love him and serve him is obey and agree with him. Yes, even at great cost, even when Chip Gaines calls you hateful. That's part of what it takes. And you know what? It's a pretty low cost here in the United States in 2025. Not a low cost for everyone. I just want to acknowledge there's a lot of Christians out there who have sacrificed a lot employment, money, fame relationships for standing strong in your faith, even on these. controversial issues. But let's be real. If Chip and Joanna Gaines decided that they were going to say go the way of Phil Robertson and Duck Dynasty and say, you know what, I'm not going to affirm

Starting point is 00:55:36 homosexuality. I'm not going to stop talking about these things. You can, you know, stick it where the sun don't shine. They would be fine. They'd be fine. They'd be giving up very, very little, actually. And they would be actually probably gaining their respect of a lot of people and giving their courage to a of people by standing strong and giving up money and affirmation and acceptance even when it's really hard. So like, let's be honest about that. We're talking about the first chapter of the first book of the Bible, okay? Not even getting 30 verses into scripture before God tells us what marriage is. And what is it rooted in creation? Reiterated throughout scripture, honor your father and mother, repeated by Jesus himself, Matthew 19, 19, 4 through 5, representative of Christ in the church, Ephesians,

Starting point is 00:56:25 five and therefore reflective of the gospel. That is why when people start denying Genesis 127, in the importance of Genesis 1.27, they eventually deny John 14, 6, that Jesus is the only way, truth in the life, and that no one comes to the Father except through him, because marriage is a physical, earthly representation of a spiritual, eternal reality that is seen in the gospel itself. The Bible starts with the marriage and ends with a marriage. It's not just a couple verses in Leviticus. And by the way, even if it were all of the Bible is God's word, whatever, God says Jesus is saying also because they're three and one. So again, I just don't see any justification for this. I don't. Like I really thought about because I saw people defending them,

Starting point is 00:57:14 people I respect defending them, who know them. And I'm like, okay, I'm really trying to see that. I really am. And if you think I'm, wrong if you think that there is some glaring thing that I'm just not seeing here that like someone handcuffed them and was like you will be gay on this show or else like I don't know we're gonna do something really bad like okay if they were held hostage then maybe but other I mean still I don't see it so tell me if I'm being blinded to something if you think I'm being overly critical then tell me but seems like voluntarily promoting, celebrating what God says will kill the body and soul. And wow, I just can't imagine loving God and loving people and doing that for money.

Starting point is 00:58:03 Seems inexcusable. All right, let me pause. Tell you about our next sponsor, it's Range Leather. Y'all, I love all of my products from Range Leather. I've got a bag. We've got wallets. We've got hats. We've got earrings, belts.

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Starting point is 00:58:59 Okay, one final thing I just wanted to say, and maybe we'll have time to talk about it a little bit more on Wednesday, but I just wanted to ask you to please pray for John McArthur and pray for his wife and pray for his church family, pray for his children, grandchildren, and I believe great grandchildren as well. Via the Christian Post, John McArthur, the 86-year-old long-time California pastor and broadcaster, has been admitted to the hospital. with pneumonia. The announcement was made during Sunday worship with the church leader telling the congregation, he may be in the presence of the Lord soon. So he apparently is not expected to recover. He has had health issues for the past few years. But man, he has, I'm going to try not to tear up. He has run

Starting point is 00:59:45 this race. My goodness. He has been so faithful. So faithful to his church that he has been pastoring since I believe, 1969, faithful to his wife and faithful to the ministry that the Lord has called him to and just completely unapologetic and unwavering and standing upon what the word of God says about every single issue and talk about someone who does not care about friendship with the world. He doesn't care about friendship with the world. You know, Paul says in Philippians one, that to live is Christ and to die his gain, when he dies, it will be his gain. It will feel like our loss, it will feel very tangibly like his family's loss, but he will be exactly where he wants to go. Now, the Lord can also heal him physically. And we could have 10 more years

Starting point is 01:00:33 with them. And I pray that and I would love that. But I pray more that God would be glorified, that he would have peace in his body, in his mind, and his soul, that his family would have the peace that passes all understanding that his legacy would continue to glorify God forever and ever. So just keep them in mind, keep their church in mind and the ministries in mind as they possibly go through a really difficult transition. All right, that's all we've got time for today. We will be back here on Wednesday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1217 | Chip & Joanna Gaines Go All In on Gay Marriage

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