Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1234 | Antichrist, Transhumanism & the Strange Faith of Peter Thiel

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Starting point is 00:00:46 That's fellowship homelones.com slash alley, term supply, see site for details, fellowship home loans, mortgage lending by the book, nationwide mortgage bankers, DBA Fellowship Home Loans, equal housing lender, NMLS, number 819-382. The Antichrist is the current topic of discussion in Silicon Valley. Should we be worried? Also, yours truly came up at an interview between the New York Times and Jen Hatmaker for an interesting reason that we'll discuss. Also, we have an announcement to give you all of this and more on today's episode of Relatable. Hey, guys, welcome to Relatable.

Starting point is 00:01:31 Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. All right, we've got a lot to get through today, quite a range of things. and we've also got an announcement to make in just a little bit. But first, I want to talk about an article that I saw over the weekend in the New York Times about Jen Hatmaker. Now, if you don't know who Jen Hatmaker is, then maybe you weren't a Christian woman in 2014 that was in the evangelical world. Gin Hatmaker was a very popular speaker and author around this time and a little bit before that. She's very dynamic, very charismatic, very friendly, very kind of artistic, free-spirited.

Starting point is 00:02:16 And so she brought something a little bit different to the evangelical Southern Baptist space that a lot of women really enjoyed. However, she has since deconstructed. And in 2015, I believe it was she made this big announcement about. about being gay affirming, LGBTQ affirming. And you'll remember because we've covered it that our dear Rosaria Butterfield, who is absolutely amazing, she wrote this incredible rebuttal

Starting point is 00:02:47 to what Jen Hatmaker had announced on Facebook in the Gospel Coalition, just saying that what Jen Hatmaker said affirming LGBTQ would have pushed the former Rosaria, who was in a, long-time lesbian relationship as a queer feminist professor at Syracuse University further into her sin. That was Rosaria's argument that Gin Hatmaker out of what she calls love and acceptance

Starting point is 00:03:21 and a personal evolution of her views is actually pulling people away from repentance, away from Christ and deeper into their sin, which of course is separating them from God. And therefore, no matter how loving and accepting and empathetic something sounds, if it is affirming sin, then it is ultimately hateful. Because we talk about this a lot. We talk about this in my first book, You're Not Enough, but we really drive home this point in toxic empathy. How empathy becomes toxic is when it goes from,

Starting point is 00:03:59 simply trying to feel how someone feels to allowing those feelings to push you in three directions toward validating sin, affirming lies or affirming lies and validating sin. You could say either direction or supporting destructive policies. So affirming sin, validating lies, or supporting destructive policies. That is how you know empathy has become toxic. Empathy. by itself can be neutral. It can lead you in a good direction toward acting out in love and kindness or as it is such a powerful feeling, it can lead you toward the direction of affirming sin. And that is the direction that it ledgen hatmaker. And now she's got a memoir out. I'm giving it some free press here. I'm talking about her divorce, the disintegration of her marriage and what

Starting point is 00:04:56 her life looks like now, what her faith looks like now. She is very, very progressive. She openly affirms, for example, transgenderism in children. She is like as far left as it comes when it comes to those very important foundational theological and civilizational issues. And unfortunately, she's brought a lot of women who have always loved her into that camp of denying what the Bible calls good and right and true. And there is this interview between a New York Times journalist and Jen Hatmaker that was just published. And for some reason, I was brought up. I personally find this like a random insertion of my name. But I also think for whatever reason, I've been in the New York times a lot lately. I think that they are starting to view me as some kind of representative of

Starting point is 00:05:54 conservative evangelicalism, which, okay, I'll take it. But this interviewer seemingly out of nowhere said to Jen Hatmaker, it's interesting for me to hear you say that in the context. So she's talking about, Jen Hatmaker was talking about, you know, the old way of her faith evangelicalism, not serving her. She's come to this new place after she deconstructed all of that. And then the journalist says it's interesting for me to hear you say that in the context of criticism that has been leveled at you from the evangelical influencer Ali Beth Stucky. Her argument is that you have a salad bar approach to faith. You pick and choose what you like and discard what you don't. And also you let your positions be defined by feelings rather than scripture. I mean,

Starting point is 00:06:36 go in, David. Come on. Is there something that that line of criticism is missing about you and Christianity? And then Jen says, I don't listen to that. I don't care about that. And that doesn't bother me. Fair enough, Jen. And then David says, why do you think it's wrong? She says, my faith is still what anchors me, what leads me, what compels me, what sustains me. I had always deeply succeeded in the two institutions that came a credible church in marriage. Having lost one and disconnected myself from the other, so lost marriage, disconnected from church, I've discovered a faith that exists beautifully outside of that. And of course, I would ask, with as much genuine love as possible, faith in what? Faith in what? Faith in whom? Faith in yourself? Faith in some vague spirituality? If it's faith in Jesus Christ, yes and amen. But can you affirm that Jesus is who he says he is? Can you affirm what he says in Matthew 19, that in the beginning God made us male and female what God has brought together, let no man separate? Can you affirm Jesus, whom you, you? You know, who you,

Starting point is 00:07:46 say you follow? Can you affirm what he says about marriage, about gender, about sexuality, about sin, about repentance? But really, all of those are secondary to the question, can you affirm what Jesus says about himself? In John 146, that he is the way, the truth, the life, that no one comes to the father except through him. Because what I so often see is that when people start denying Genesis 1 27 first chapter of the first book of the Bible that God made us male and female they are on their way to then denying John 146 that Jesus is the way the truth the life that no one can come to the father except through him and it's because you're not just denying these little small pieces of the Bible that are tertiary that ultimately don't matter

Starting point is 00:08:39 you are denying the authority of God's word. You are denying the authority and the trustworthiness of Jesus himself when it comes to a very basic tenet of Christianity. And if you're going to deny that, something that can not only be read in the first chapter, but observed biologically, observed in the world, then of course you'll eventually deny the spiritually discernible truth, which is that Jesus is the only way to heaven. This sort of faith is very appealing to the world because it doesn't ask you to make any sacrifices. You don't have to deny yourself. You never have to deny your feelings. All of the things that the Bible calls sins. You can just call personality traits or innate desires that you don't have to push to the side. And it is a kind of so-called Christianity that

Starting point is 00:09:25 simply affirms everything that the world affirms. Instead of the Christianity that calls us to be enemies of the world so that we are friends with God, it pits itself as friends with the world and puts itself in enmity with God, and that is a very, very dangerous place to be. When we start judging our love and our goodness by how the world reacts to us and all of us have done that one time or another, rather than by the standard of God's word, we just make more and more compromises. At first, in the name of evangelism and the name of appealing to those who are seeking, and then it is just simply because we have grown to be calloused to the convictions of the Holy Spirit. And so genuinely, I don't say this with any animus.

Starting point is 00:10:16 I don't say this with any sarcasm or condescension. Like I want to pray for Jen Hatmaker. I want to pray for Rachel Hollis. I want to pray for Glenn and Doyle. I kind of put all of those women in a similar bucket. They are all kind of repackaging self-help in a spiritual way. that I think confuses a lot of women. And whenever I think of those women who are all about the self, loving yourself, finding yourself, I always think about this passage in Second Timothy

Starting point is 00:10:46 three. But understand this, that in the last days, there will come times of difficulty for people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness. But denying its power, avoid such people. Listen to this, for among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins, and led astray by various passions, always learning, and never able to arrive at a knowledge of truth. That is what I think of. When I think of these women who are leading so many vulnerable and gullible women astray, their message of self-empowerment and self-liberation is so appealing, especially to those who have been hurt by people in the church or who claim the name of Christ. But ultimately, it is always learning and never arriving at a full knowledge of

Starting point is 00:11:58 truth because it's never leading to the only freedom and satisfaction you can find, which is in Christ. All right. Speaking of the last days, Silicon Valley is looking toward Armageddon and they are talking about the Antichrist. That is not a story you hear every day. But first, let me tell you about specifically something for the related bros out there. Okay? I got to talk to the related bros. I got to talk to the husbands and the sons and the boyfriend and the dads, I got to talk to all of you. See, your wife or your daughter or your mom or your sister or your girlfriend wants to come to share the arrows.

Starting point is 00:12:40 But she's not sure how she's going to get there. And she's a little worried about it. Maybe she's worried about it, you know, money-wise, which is understandable. She's worried about it logistics. And if she is a young mom, like me, she's got young kids, husbands out there, she's worried about who is going to take care of things while she's gone. And listen, related bros, I need you to make sure that if your wife wants to come to share the arrows, that everything is in place for her to be able to come.

Starting point is 00:13:12 Because she will go and then leave feeling so refreshed and so confident and so renewed in hope and encouragement. She will make lifelong friends. and it will just fill her heart and sharpen her mind so much. So if you've been thinking about it or if your wife has been talking about it, but she's worried, instead of just saying, oh, yeah, that's, you know, a lot to worry about, then my encouragement to you is to do whatever you can to make her feel comfortable and confident that she can go.

Starting point is 00:13:47 She can bring her sister, she can bring her friend, she can go by herself, that you are going to hold things down, that everything is going to be great when she comes back. I think that holds a lot of women back from doing things that would be really good because of all of the other things that we have to manage and all the people that we're thinking about. And that's a good thing. And maybe this is not her year to be able to go. But if it's possible, really, to bro, try everything you can to make it happen. And if she wants more information, if you want more information, just go to share the arrows. We're going to have an incredible turnout this year.

Starting point is 00:14:23 We're going to have incredible teachers. We've got Elisa Childers. We've got Ginger Duggervolo. We've got Taylor Dukes, Katie Fowse, Abby Halberstadt. If she likes motherhood, if she likes health, if she aspires to these things, if she just likes apologetics, theology, and worship and encouragement and Christian fellowship, she's got to come to share the errors. It's going to be absolutely amazing.

Starting point is 00:14:46 None of that self-help slop that we just told you about. No self-empowerment. No, we are learning how to arm ourselves with God's word, be filled with the Holy Spirit, and to be obedient in every realm of life that God has placed us in. And this year is Share the Arrows is brought to you by our friends at Carly Jean, Los Angeles. So make sure that you go to Share theeros.com. Get your tickets today. Again, you can use Taylor 15, unlock 15% off, and that discount should help you out.

Starting point is 00:15:13 Before we get into the rest of our episode, I do want to tell you about our first sponsor. And it's seven weeks coffee. y'all, I love seven weeks coffee. We love seven weeks coffee in our home. They really make great tasting, high quality, totally clean, mold-free, pesticide-free coffee. And the best part is, is they support pregnancy centers across the country, not just in Word, but they put their money where their heart is. They donate 10% of every sale to pregnancy centers. And y'all, because you have bought seven weeks and allowed your coffee to serve a higher purpose, they have donated over one million dollars one million dollars to pregnancy centers y'all that has resulted in saving countless lives

Starting point is 00:15:56 praise god so if you want to be a part of that if you want to put your money where your heart is start buying seven weeks coffee subscribe to their heartbeat club you'll get that box of coffee to your front door every month you'll save money when you do plus when you use my code alley at checkout you'll save an extra 10% go to seven weeks coffee.com code alley that seven weeks coffee dot com code alley Okay, Bree. Should I tell them, are you? I can tell them. Okay. So I am going to be leaving the relatable team. And so we thought we needed to tell you guys. Yeah. Okay. Tell them why. Is it because we're angry at each other? Yeah. Big feud. No, it's really, it's really, it's really, a sad thing for me. So I came, some of you know, I came from the ministry world and doing overseas missions. And I have just really felt God calling me back into that world. And so, um, so that's what I'm going to be doing and kind of leaving the podcast world for at least a little while going back

Starting point is 00:17:07 into missions. And I'm super excited about it, but, but really sad to be leaving, um, Ali and relatable. And you all have been so, so sweet to me. And I'm just so thankful. for that best audience in the world so grateful for the three years that i have been here and um and all the opportunity and getting to know some of you i'll still be at share the arrows so i'll see some of you there i'm sure um but yeah that's that's what i can you say what you'll be doing generally at the um i won't say the organization the new ministry well so i'm going to be working pretty directly with missionaries who are overseas working in really like closed difficult countries to work in. So I actually can't say that much. But I'm going to be helping mostly on the

Starting point is 00:17:56 communication side of things. So I'll be based in the U.S. still, but probably going on a lot of trips overseas to make sure that missionaries there are well cared for and equipped to share the gospel with people there. So you were in ministry before you came to relatable. A lot of people don't know. And we'll talk more about this before, like on her last day, which is in just a couple weeks. By the way, so we'll talk more about all of this. But Bree came to relatable a few years ago. My other, so I needed a producer. And we had a lot of applications.

Starting point is 00:18:33 And I was like, I just don't think any of this feels right. And then one day I was going through my like general email. And I happened to see an email that she had sent several months earlier asking, hey, like are you all hiring? And I looked at her resume. And I was like, I kind of want to talk. to this girl. And so we talked and we clicked and it was great. And she came in with very little like podcasting, any kind of like media experience. And she ran with it. And it's been a little over

Starting point is 00:19:01 three years because I think that was July of 2022. And oh my gosh, like so much has happened. The show has grown so much since then. So yeah, it's been, it's been crazy. It's gone by fast, but also it feels like it's been like forever at the same time. It's crazy that that's only like part of Relatable's life. But obviously, Bree, has been a big part of it. Okay, so you went ministry, and then you came, you did this for three years, and then you went to ministry. What do you feel like you have learned as a producer that will, now you'll be able to take into the ministry world? Oh my gosh. You're putting me on the spot here. Sorry. No, I think when I, so I was on staff with crew before. I'm not going back to crew to different ministry, but there I felt like I really

Starting point is 00:19:49 wasn't as equipped to talk about a lot of the cultural issues. I obviously had opinions and beliefs, but that was something that isn't necessarily relevant when you're like sharing the gospel with someone in the Middle East, for example, but it is relevant when you're talking to the people that you're working with, your like co-laborers who are also working for the ministry. And that was a really weak point for me. And one of the reasons why I think ultimately the ministry world broke down for me. There were a lot of like liberal Christians in the organization and I just didn't really have the voice to to speak up about anything. And so I think that's one aspect that I feel much more equipped to do thanks to you, really. And now if anyone tries to confront you about pit bulls,

Starting point is 00:20:36 like your mind has changed and you know. No. I've never been pro pit bull for the record, but now I'm pretty radical. Yeah. Like can I say? Yeah. So that's one aspect. I think just being so clear about my convictions in a way that that maybe I wasn't before. So that's good. And then, you know, there's lots of technical stuff too that is super useful just in working in general. Yeah. Okay. Well, that will not be the last time you hear from Bree. She'll be here for the next couple of weeks as we transition out of Bree era, the Brie era of Relatable. But she will come back on the show and we will have a formal farewell and wish her well. But I just wanted you guys to know now.

Starting point is 00:21:22 I didn't want it to seem like it was sudden or anything controversial. I am super grateful for Bree, but I am very excited for her as she listens to the conviction that God has put on her heart. And she goes into this new realm and is an asset to this new ministry. And, yeah, new seasons of life, new seasons for her, new seasons for the show. And so pray for the show too that we find the right person because it's not an easy role to fill. It's a big role to fill. Obviously someone who is in alignment with my values who has a lot of experience because at this point in the show, it's not, it can't be a role for someone who is just like, I'm a quick learner.

Starting point is 00:22:07 It's got to be a role for someone who has experience at this point in podcasting. So I do just want to put that out there. If you are someone who has the experience and the values, the skills that you think could align with a senior producing role for a show like this or if you know someone, then please apply. Right now I'm going to send you to email relatable messages at gmail.com. There will probably be like an actual like job posting and all of that. Relatable messages at gmail.com we can put it.

Starting point is 00:22:42 it in the description. Send your resume. Send your cover letter and all of that good stuff. I care about the grammar and your emails, by the way, just FYI. But that is, that's all I'm going to say about that. And we'll talk more about Bree's farewell and future episodes. Oh, one thing I just wanted to say, because I know I'm going to get a comment about this before we get into like the meat of today's episode. I know someone's going to tell me that I look like I'm wearing a prison jumpsuit because it's an orange jumpsuit. I just want to defend myself. It really, it kind of does look like that. A little chicer though, right? I just want to say it's not orange in person. It's coral in person. But the lights and the coloring of the studio kind of make everything a little bit

Starting point is 00:23:27 warmer. Orange is still in my color season. But it's not an orange jumpsuit. It is a coral jumpsuit. I just wanted to defend myself there. All right. Speaking of that, Peter, Okay, so the reason we're talking about him, I'm just kidding, that had nothing to do with Peter Thiel. The reason that we're talking about Peter Thiel is because I saw something on X that Peter Thiel, this tech entrepreneur, co-founder of PayPal and Palantir, is that how you say it? And Palantir, which is a company that creates software and analyze data for governments and things like that, that he is leading this seminar series about the Antichrist. on September 15th. And this caused me to look into Peter Thiel and who he actually is, what he actually believes. A lot of this stuff, some of you probably already know, but there's probably some stuff that you don't want to know, or that you don't know, or maybe don't want to know.

Starting point is 00:24:25 But he is a very interesting person, and I wanted to know why would someone in Silicon Valley care about the Antichrist? What does he think about the Antichrist? And is someone who is so rich and so powerful, so influential on all of the technology that we have in our hands and is influencing culture is what he thinks about the Antichrist going to be something that actually impacts us. So first, before we talk about what his series actually is, why he's focusing on the Antichrist, what he actually believes about it, what it could mean for us. I would just want to back up and tell you who Peter Thiel is because you might know or you may not know. So as I said, he is the co-founder of PayPal and Palantir. He is a multi-billionaire. He also

Starting point is 00:25:14 identifies as a Christian, but he is married to a man, has two children via IVF and surrogacy, which obviously is something that we've talked about many times. He recently did an interview with Ross Dalfit, the podcast that I was on for the New York Times called Interesting Times, where he said, as we'll get into later, that he doesn't actually know if the human race should survive. And then he started talking about transhumanism. So needless to say, Peter Thiel is a very heterodox person. He has a lot of interesting beliefs that seem to inform what he thinks the Antichrist is. So let's back up a little bit.

Starting point is 00:25:55 He was born in Germany, raised in the United States. In 1998, he co-founded this big company. He also invested in startups like Facebook and other companies that made him millions and millions of dollars. He is a donor to Republican campaigns like J.D. Vance's Senate run, like President Trump and Vance's presidential run. He has a venture firm, Teal Capital. led a $3.8 million seed funding round in September 2022 for an app called 28. It was initially called 28 by EV. It's a FEM tech app that offers cycle-based information. So this app was created by a conservative influencer, Brittany Martinez, who also founded EV Magazine. He's not behind

Starting point is 00:26:53 EV Magazine, but he is behind this app. And as I said, he is a self-proclaimed Christian who was raised by evangelical parents, but he's got some really interesting things to say about Christianity, as you can imagine, as someone who is gay, who has used surrogacy to procure his children, and who believes all kinds of things that you and I as evangelical Christians do not believe. the statements that he has made about Christianity, I think, are pretty interesting and speak to the heterodox view of what Christ, who Christ actually is and what Christianity is. Let me go ahead and pause and tell you about our next sponsor before we get into the rest of that. And that is Good Ranchers. Y'all love Good Ranchers so much. We eat it almost every night in our home.

Starting point is 00:27:46 We love the ground beef. I actually have my own custom box. If you go to Good Ranchers.com slash Ali, you'll see the, all of the picks that I have. So it is not pre-marinated, non-pre-marinated chicken breasts. It's the ground beef. It's different filets. We love it. I tried to make the fillets the other day. And Chief Related Bro was like, these flas are so good and this is not how you make them. So I stick to the chicken and the ground beef. And Chief Related Bro sticks to grilling the meat, grilling the steaks. He's really good at that. We had filets the other night that he made. They were so good and all he did is put salt and pepper on them. I love knowing that all of the meat is from an American farmer ranch. I don't have to worry about the quality. I don't have to worry about where

Starting point is 00:28:35 it's coming from. The regulations from the country it's imported from. Plus, it's a Christian America loving company, family-owned company. It's a win all around. Go to good ranchers.com slash Ali. Go ahead and subscribe. You'll get that box of meat to your front door every month. Plus when you use my code Allie, you will get $40 off your order. That's good ranchers.com slash alley code alley. In a profile in the New Yorker, Tiel stated, I believe Christianity to be true. I don't feel a compelling need to convince other people of that. So that right there, I'm like, okay, well, that's interesting.

Starting point is 00:29:12 If you have the conviction that Christianity is true, but you don't feel the conviction, a compelling need to tell other people about it. Of course, my question would be, what part of Christianity do you, believe because Jesus, one of the last commandments that he gave us in Matthew 28, 19 through 20, he says, go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. Acts 1.8, Jesus says, but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth.

Starting point is 00:29:50 and to Vanity Fair, or according to Vanity Fair, in a 2020 speech he gave, he said, I believe in the resurrection of Christ. The only good role model for us is Christ. Okay, again, that is interesting to have that conviction, which is not an easy belief. Christianity is not an easy belief system to hold, but then to say that he does not feel compelled to convince other people of that, which is part and parcel with Christianity and our call as Christians is very interesting. He often speaks about Christianity in tech.

Starting point is 00:30:24 In 2023, Peter Thiel gave a speech about miracles and forgiveness and Jesus at a birthday party for his business partner. And a woman by the name of Michelle Stevens was inspired by his speech and started something called the Act 17 Collective, the group host events to help tech and entertainment leaders explore Christian faith. It stands for acknowledging Christ in technology. and society and also refers to Acts 17 in the Bible. So Teal is a prominent supporter of Act 17. He speaks at a lot of their events, which again, I just find so fascinating as someone whose own personal life, as we'll get into in a minute, is so opposed to what Christianity teaches about morality and marriage and sexuality and all of that. And who doesn't believe that, you know,

Starting point is 00:31:19 he needs to have a compelling desire to share the gospel would also be a part of an organization that wants to infiltrate the technological world, Silicon Valley, with biblical truth, with the truth of the gospel. According to The Daily Mail, speaking of his personal life, Tiel has generally been pretty private about it. He is married. We say quote unquote married. We use those scare quotes because God defines marriage and he defines it positively one way

Starting point is 00:31:48 and one way only, and that is between one man and one woman for life. So he is in a union with Matt Dan Zeesen, and they had a ceremony in October 2017. They have two young daughters born via surrogate and just a reminder adoption redeems a broken situation, but surrogacy creates a broken situation taking a child away not only from their biological mother, but also from the only woman they've ever known, which is the woman who just dated them, and to rob a child of their mother is cruel. Children have a right to a mother and a father. And the fact that it is legal and that it is celebrated to take a child from their mom, when we know the physiological importance of skin to skin and that bonding.

Starting point is 00:32:46 and knowing who your parents are, if at all possible. Just because you have the money and the power to do it, it is so cruel. A reminder that puppies and kittens are required to stay with their mothers for at least six weeks after birth, yet with babies that are procured via surrogacy, we rip them away from both their mother and the woman who carried them moments after birth. And again, it is different from adoption. Not always the effect is different than adopt. but the intent is different than adoption because adoption redeems an already broken situation. Surrogacy creates that broken situation. At the 2016 Republican National Convention, Teal said,

Starting point is 00:33:30 I am proud to be gay. I am proud to be a Republican, but most of all, I am proud to be an American. And there's also messy details of this personal life that we won't get into because it's not relevant for those of us who are Christian, who believe that God's word is good, that his commands are good, that God wants people to flourish, that he loves us. And so he created marriage for our good and for the good of children. We already know that this is someone who is unfortunately in many ways wayward, that he has not fully believed in the gospel and allowed it to manifest in his life because Christ is not leading his life. I can be thankful for some of the contributions he's made to really good campaigns and the different things that he said that

Starting point is 00:34:21 happened to be true and also realized that, okay, this is someone who desperately needs the truth of the gospel to permeate his heart and his life. And we really see this manifest itself, not just in his personal choices, but also in his beliefs about something called transhumanism. So he did this interesting times interview with Ross Dowell. Ross Dauphett is, I would say, pretty conservative, not as conservative as me, but he's a more traditional and conservative Catholic. And he interviewed Peter Thiel. And I just want to say, like, Ross Douthit is doing a great job. I have found his interviews to be really, really interesting. And I love the way that he pushes back on people, including how he pushed back on me in our interview.

Starting point is 00:35:09 So Teal characterizes transhumanism in this interview as the pursuit of radical transformation, your human natural body gets transformed into an immortal body. Wait, that sounds so familiar. That sounds like the biblical concept of the bodily resurrection that all believers will take part in one day that we get to throw off our natural body and we put on this immortal body, which will live forever. And it sounds to me, though, that Peter Thiel thinks that this is possible outside of the power of Christ and is actually possible through things like cryonics. So freezing your body or your head for future revival in uploading consciousness to a computer, I guess to like re-download one day into someone's body. So at its core, transhumanism is kind of an

Starting point is 00:35:58 intellectual or cultural movement that advocates for using technology and science to enhance the human condition like living longer, combating aging, incorporating robotics. What do we always say about technology? When technology takes us from what is natural? to what is possible. Christians have the responsibility to ask, but is this moral? Is this ethical? And most of all, is this biblical? And when it comes to messing with either the creation of life through things like IVF, sperm,

Starting point is 00:36:29 and egg selling, surrogacy, and the curtailing of death, then we have a lot of questions to ask. It's not always a no. Technology is not always a no. Sometimes the answer is yes. This is moral, ethical, and this is biblical. But a lot of times when you try to play God, both in the creation of life and trying to completely defeat the power of the curse that was set upon us through Adam and Eve in the garden, then, okay, we've got to talk about some things, right? So here's what he said.

Starting point is 00:37:08 To Ross do that about not just transhumanism, but this set it up. Should the human race even survive? Here's not one. You would prefer the human race to endure, right? You're hesitating. Yes? I don't know. I would, I would.

Starting point is 00:37:31 This is a long hesitation. There's so many. questions implosion Should the human race survive? Yes. But I also would I also would like us to radically solve these problems.

Starting point is 00:37:50 And so, you know, it's always, I don't know, you know, yeah, transhumanism is this, you know, the ideal was this radical transformation where your human natural body gets transformed into an immortal body. Brea, I'm thinking about so many perspectives right now. I've been the interviewee. I've been the interviewer.

Starting point is 00:38:17 And while I haven't technically been the producer, I can imagine what the producer is thinking. And I can also imagine, I don't think Peter Thiel has a publicist, but like what his publicist is doing. So as the interviewer, I'm like, this is an amazing moment. I cannot. I'm like, clip, clip, clip, clip. I'm so like, no, I loved the hesitation if I were an interviewer because, wow, I can't believe I got this on tape. This is a huge newsworthy moment,

Starting point is 00:38:46 which is, I'm guessing what you would be thinking as a producer. Same. Like, oh my gosh, you're like sending me slack messages. That's what I do, when I don't have time to say anything. And things like that don't typically happen. But wow. And then as the producer, that's what you're thinking. And then as Peter Thiel's publicist, you're like, yes, yes. The answer is yes. Just yes. Yep. Just yes. That's it. You want the human race to survive. Yes. And then when he says, but no, no, no, no, Peter, no, no, no. Ended it. Yes. Pause, period. Yeah, that was quite the moment. So he doesn't really know if the human race should persist. That is very troubling for me. That's very troubling. And then that he says, yes, but let's solve these

Starting point is 00:39:39 problems via transhumanism. I'm worried. Okay, let me take a pause and tell you about our next sponsor before we get into the rest of this and the Antichrist stuff. And that is Adele Natural Cosmetics, y'all. I love Adele Natural Cosmetics. I use them every single day. I use their oil-based cleanser. Love it so much. I use their moisturizer on a daily basis. I love that all of their products are completely natural. Totally holistic. There's no fake fragrances, no synthetic chemicals. It's all just from nature. And it works really well on my skin. It helps me glow and feel moisturized. It protects that skin barrier, which unfortunately is like violated and torn off by a lot of really harsh chemical-laden products these days. All of their makeup is supernatural, not

Starting point is 00:40:29 supernatural, but very natural, but also maybe supernatural because this is an unapologetically Christian and pro-life family-owned company. It's a win all around, especially when so many cosmetics companies today support abortion and things like that. Adele Natural Cosmetics is different in more ways than one. Go to adelenaturalcosmetics.com. Use code Allie for 25% off your first time purchase. That's adele natural cosmetics.com code Alley. Okay. So let's talk about transhumanism, like what he really believes about that, trying to curtail death altogether, okay? Not just alleviate suffering, not just heal sickness, which I do think is an extension of the Christian purpose, by the way, but to try to eliminate death altogether by curtailing this natural process of human expiration that we have inherited because of our sin. in Adam. Here's that too. The trans people in a sexual context or I don't know, a transvestite

Starting point is 00:41:38 is someone who changes their clothes and cross-dresses and a transsexual is someone where you change your penis into a vagina and we can then debate how well those surgeries work. But we want more transformation than that. It's the critique is not that it's weird and unnatural. It's, man, it's so pathetically little. And okay, we want more than cross-dressing or, changing your sex organs. We want you to be able to change your heart and change your mind and change your whole your whole body. No, we don't. We do not want that. It's too far. Science. I mean, this is, I mean, Silicon Valley, I feel like in so many ways is the Tower of Babel. It is. In so many different ways, in so many different ways, it is human beings trying to build their way to God and

Starting point is 00:42:31 trying to be God. And we know that God didn't like that because he scattered them and he confused all of their languages. And actually, I think that there is a portion of like the H-1B debate in Silicon Valley that is relevant to that story. But also here, it is a form of self-idolatry. And it is not trusting in and hoping in the glory that we are promised in Christ, but we are trying to attain that here. It's very much like the mentality that I see from progressives who confuse like what the kingdom of heaven actually is. They believe that it is ending all of their version of oppression or their idea of inequality here on earth. I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to alleviate the suffering from true oppression because we should. But their belief is that there is not a future heaven that we are going

Starting point is 00:43:27 toward, but that we can actually politically create some kind of utopia here on earth where no person ever has more than another person and everyone is liberated in all systems and institutions and, you know, all order and hierarchy is eliminated. That is the progressive idea of bringing the kingdom of heaven here on earth through social justice and political means. And this is almost like a progressive technological version of that that we can bring the kingdom of heaven here on earth through technology, which brings us into what he actually thinks. If that is, if that is a correct assessment, which is that's just my opinion of what he believes, then that informs what he means when he says the Antichrist, when he is conducting

Starting point is 00:44:19 these seminars on what the Antichrist is. According to the New York. times because he describes this in this interview with Ross Dautha and I read the whole transcript. I mean, he is brilliant. He is a very, very smart person. So clearly he's thought a lot about this, but I do find it from a Christian perspective to be very confusing considering what we know biblically about the actual Antichrist. So Teal describes the Antichrist as a potential systemic threat rather than a literal individual suggesting it could manifest as a one world totalitarian and state that promises peace and safety, but suppresses freedom. So he actually cites the Bible in supporting this idea.

Starting point is 00:45:03 He connects it to First Thessalonians 5.3. He argues that the Antichrist appeal lies in exploiting fears of catastrophic technologies to justify centralized control. The way the antichrist would take over the world is you talk about Armageddon nonstop. You talk about existential risk nonstop. And this is what you need to. regulate. So you could see if that is the case, how that would have manifested itself many times

Starting point is 00:45:30 over the years. No, it's, you know, nuclear weapons are going to be like Armageddon. You need to make sure that I have all of the power. Know this over here is going to be the Armageddon. Climate change is going to be the Armageddon. You need to make sure that I have all the power to stop that. But he is arguing that the Antichrist will be someone who actually pushes for technological stagnation. I think he believes that a lot of people wrongly believe that the Antichrist will be someone who uses AI and uses technology to gain all of this power, this Antichrist power to set himself against governments, to set himself against God himself. He's arguing that it will actually be the opposite. Now, what is not completely clear to me is whether or not Peter Thiel believes in an actual man of lawless. that the Bible describes, which we'll get into it in a second, or if he believes the Antichrist

Starting point is 00:46:29 is kind of a metaphor for technological stagnation. And maybe he describes that clearly somewhere. It is not completely clear to me. So in his interview, he expresses concern that modern technology, particularly artificial intelligence and global data systems, could provide the infrastructure for what the Bible calls the Antichrist, but again, not how we would think of it, but someone who sets himself against those things. Now, it is worth noting that as we're trying to describe his beliefs, that his company, Palantir, Palantir, right? There's so many different ways that it looks like you can pronounce that.

Starting point is 00:47:07 It develops those kinds of technologies, large-scale software systems used by government agencies and other entities to assist in their operations. And so, Ross, the interviewer here is like, well, aren't you just kind of trying to make it seem like anyone who opposes what you're trying to do is part of the Antichrist? Here's not three. You are, you're, you're, you're an, you're an investor in AI. You're, you know, you're deeply invested in Palantir, in military technology, in technologies of surveillance and technologies of warfare and so on, right?

Starting point is 00:47:43 And it just seems to me that when you tell me a story about the Antichrist coming to power and using the. of technological change to sort of impose order on the world, I feel like that Antichrist would be maybe be using the tools that you were, that you were building, right? There are all, look, there are all these different scenarios. I obviously don't think that that's what I'm doing. Okay. So I thought that that was a fair question by Ross. And obviously, Peter Thiel doesn't see it that way, but I think that that's, you know, that's fair to ask. Teal says that the Antichrist would gain power by exploiting the constant fear of apocalyptic scenarios that could be brought to fruition by things like AI.

Starting point is 00:48:29 He says the way the Antichrist would take over the world is you talk about Armageda nonstop, you talk about existential risk nonstop, and this is what you need to regulate. So, I mean, it is interesting and maybe questionable that someone who makes a lot of money through technology would say that stopping technological innovation. is actually going to, you know, usher in the Antichrist or be a part of the Antichrist plan to take over the world. Again, whether he thinks that literally, theologically, or whether he just thinks that's a metaphor for like environmentalism taking over because he really doesn't like Greta Thunberg is kind of unclear. So what are these seminars about? Like, what is he telling these bigwigs and Silicon Valley who are creating the technology that is impacting?

Starting point is 00:49:20 so much of our lives. So he's got this four-part lecture series called the Antichrist that explores the biblical figure of the Antichrist through the lens of science, theology, history, politics, and literature. I like would actually love to attend these. I think it would be really interesting. So here's all we really know about it. You are, this is the event page. You are warmly invited to a series of four lectures. Peter is a technology entrepreneur, an investor, how his Christian faith, he's going to talk about informs his understanding of the world. His remarks will be anchored in science and technology, will comment on theology, history, etc. Religious thinkers upon whom Peter will draw include Renee Gerard, Francis Bacon, Jonathan Swift, Carl Schmidt, and John Henry Newman. These lectures are

Starting point is 00:50:08 off the record. Carl Schmidt was a Nazi and provided legal support for the regime. Teal references his friend enemy political theory, the concept of the political 1927, which defines politics is fundamentally based on the distinction between friends and enemies and argued that this binary is the essence of political life. I'm not saying, this is just noted here in my notes, I'm not trying to say that Peter Thiel is a Nazi or that he's sympathetic to Nazis. I haven't seen anything in my research that supports that. But it is an interesting thing to include in the event page. Jonathan Swift, the satirical writer. And then Renee Gerard was someone who really apparently influenced Peter Teal. He talked a lot about memetic desire, which we've actually talked about on this show before,

Starting point is 00:51:00 that our desires are actually shaped by what other people want. And that's interesting. We don't have time to get into that whole philosophical theory right now. And also he apparently taught that Jesus was like the end of the need for memetic desire. If I am understanding that correctly, which again, interesting philosophy, but don't have time to explore that all today, but we will link the past episode that we've done talking about memetic desire. So these are some of the people that apparently have influenced him, what he thinks about the Antichrist, what he thinks about theology. This is off the record, so I'm not sure if much will come out of this. I just think it's interesting that Silicon Valley, which a lot of people

Starting point is 00:51:43 believe is like a co-capital of godlessness with maybe Hollywood and DC sharing that title, that they are talking even about, like even conceptually about something like the Antichrist, which is not just a Christian belief, but almost a niche Christian belief. Not that only some Christians believe it, but it's not something that we typically talk about when we are talking about like what Christianity is because it's kind of scary, you know, like it's a big thing. So what does the Bible actually say about the Antichrist? Is it just a metaphor? Is it even possible what Peter Thiel is talking about? Well, let's just go see what the Word of God actually has to say about this Antichrist who is also described as a man of lawlessness. We'll get to that in just a second. Let me pause,

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Starting point is 00:53:42 That is a resource I recommend. end and it's a little bit of an investment, but you can keep it on hand forever and always reference it. What does the Bible have to say about this? What are the different theories about the end times? Like there's so much in it that is really, really helpful. And you can see all different kinds of Christian perspectives on theological issues. So I just really encourage you to buy systematic theology if you don't already have it. So this is Wayne Grudom's definition of the Antichrist based on what we see in scripture, the man of lawlessness who will appear prior to the second coming of Christ. So Christ already came once as a baby and then died as a man and he will come back again,

Starting point is 00:54:21 this time not as a baby, but as a warrior and will cause great suffering and persecution, this man of lawlessness only to be destroyed by Jesus. The term is also used to describe other figures who embody such an opposition to Christ and are precursors of the final Antichrist. So John Piper has an interesting resource on this on desiring God.com. That is his ministry where he talks about the kingdom of God being in the future but already here. So in the present, but not yet, already and not yet.

Starting point is 00:54:53 And that is also true of the Antichrist. The Antichrist is a future man, a man of lawlessness that is not here yet. And yet the spirit of the Antichrist and multiple Antichrist have already come and are still arriving. So here's what the Bible has to say in 1 John. 1 John 2 18. Children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, so now many Antichrist have come. Therefore, we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 22, who is the liar? But he who denies that Jesus is the Christ, this is the Antichrist. He who denies the father and the son. Okay. So the Antichrist and people who deny the father and the son have already existed for a long time. 1 John 4.3, in every spirit that

Starting point is 00:55:41 does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard was coming, and now is in the world already. Second John 1-7, for many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and is the Antichrist. So in 2013, John Piper said this. So both Paul and John picture a final time just before the second coming when a person of great demonic power will rise up in rebellion against the true Christ and his people. In the meantime, the satanic characteristics of that figure are always manifesting themselves in the world with greater or lesser dominance. The antichrist is coming and he is here all ready. So this is that future man of

Starting point is 00:56:28 lawlessness. Second Thessalonians two three through four. Let no one deceive you in any way, for that day will not come unless the rebellion comes. comes first. So that's the falling away of people who profess to be believers. And the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called God or object of worship so that he takes a seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Okay? So a lot of people are going to follow him. A lot of people are going to believe him. So the debate is, and that Peter Thiel is waiting into, is what is the means by which? What is the means by which this person will be able to convince so many people that he is powerful and needs to have all this

Starting point is 00:57:09 authority. Second Thessalonians 2, 6 through 10 says that, and then the lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. So that means that this has not happened yet because we know that any people who people thought were the Antichrist, like Hitler, for example, that the Lord Jesus has not come back and killed him with the breath of his mouth and has brought him to nothing. There is a lot of other commentary on who this man of lawlessness will be. Obviously, he will be lawless. He will be chaotic. He won't follow the law. And yet, he will use whatever powers of persuasion he has. And of course, the spirit of apostasy will be upon a lot of people to say, you need to trust me. And that I am,

Starting point is 00:57:59 you know, leading this kind of one world order. And it will work until, Jesus defeats him once and for all. Now, obviously, there's a debate post-mill, pre-mill just a reminder. I am pre-mill post-trip. If you want more about that, again, you can read Wayne Grudham's explanation on all of the different perspectives on eschatology, and we've done episodes on it in the past, most recently on my Israel episode, but we all agree that there will be this kind of man of lawlessness. So is it possible that this person uses the threat and the fear of AI powered Armageddon to gain his power? I would say that is possible. Is it also possible that he uses fear, other kinds of existential fear to gain power? Yes, it is possible. But is he some

Starting point is 00:58:51 kind of metaphor for technological stagnation or like climate change or whatever it is. No, it is an actual man. He will actually convince lots of people to follow him. I believe. that Christians who are Christians alive at that time will live through the tribulation and that we could see the man of lawless as it really depends upon what your eschatology is there. And so I do think it's interesting that Peter Thiel is talking about something like this. I would recommend that he and every single person get right with God, that we make sure that we are friends with God, that we are enemies of the world, friends of God. That doesn't mean we don't love the world and preach to the world because, of course,

Starting point is 00:59:34 we should, but that we are right with God, that we are walking with him in holiness and impurity by the power of the Holy Spirit. Because if the Holy Spirit is in our life, he will not let us live perpetually in sin. We will hate our sin. And we will loathe the desires of our flesh. And we will deny the things that feel good to us, but God calls unholy. And so that day is actually coming, where we will stand before God. And the only right answer will be Christ covering us by his blood. And while we do not earn salvation by being good or following rules, following Christ is evidence of our salvation and the justification that he has given us by grace through faith.

Starting point is 01:00:17 So that would be my encouragement to everyone attending these lectures, which I'm sure will actually be very interesting. All right. I've got one more sponsor before we head out. And that is Every Life. Y'all love Every Life so much. I have so many pro-life sponsors and I just love them. Every Life is the pro-life diaper company.

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Starting point is 01:01:17 All right. Well, we're already over an hour, Bree. Should I do my hard pill to swallow? You can always save it. Keep people on their toes. I could keep people on their toes or I could just give them a, oh. A little hard pill to talk about today. Okay, I just want to play this video and then I'll give you my reaction to it. Okay, this is the border collie video. Okay, so it's not really clear what's

Starting point is 01:02:06 happening here if this is this woman's dog or if this is a random stray dog. But it's leading me to say this that there are very few places in public where dogs should be allowed. Then a grocery store is not one of them. Now, I know your rat terrier is perfectly behaved and actually helps you pick out your cauliflower. I know that your border collie or your golden retriever is the exception to the role. But the fact of the matter is, no matter how cute or clean or well-behaved your dog is, it is still a dog in most public spaces are for humans. And humans have allergies. Humans have fears. Humans should be free to, should have a right to be able to navigate most public spaces just around other humans. And we shouldn't.

Starting point is 01:02:55 be living in a zoo. I actually think it is a sign of the decivization of society that we have opened up so much of our public world to dogs and other animals that eat feces. Like, we are a human society and we should create spaces that keep humans as safe and as healthy as humanly possible. The vast majority of dogs don't need to go on planes. I'm not saying, I don't like dogs. I really love dogs, but there's a time and a place for them, and your dog will be totally fine at home. And if your dog is not okay at home while you're going to the grocery store, you need to train your dog, you need to hire someone to watch your dog, but forcing other people to pretend that your dog is a human or be around your dog, especially your pit bull,

Starting point is 01:03:46 when they don't want to be is unkind. It's not conscientious. And I don't think that we should be bending all of these rules and putting decorum out the window just in favor of canines who are not made in the image of God. They're precious and cute, but they are not image bearers of God and image bears of God and our needs and our well-being and our safety and security and our comfort comes first. All right, that's my hard pill to swallow for today. And on that note, we'll be back here on Wednesday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1234 | Antichrist, Transhumanism & the Strange Faith of Peter Thiel

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