Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1247 | Three Men & a Baby: Polyamory Is Infiltrating Foster Care

Starting point is 00:00:00 The sexual revolution is reaching new lows as polycules around the world are now adopting babies and children. Also, our friend Vody Bakum has gone to be with the Lord. And so we will pay tribute to him, but we will also do our best to bring clarity to the chaos of the culture that is raging around us in a variety of ways on today's episode of Relatable. If you love this show, please leave us a five-star review wherever you. listen or watch, also subscribe. If you're not subscribed on Spotify or Apple or Google Play or on YouTube, make sure that you are. It really helps the show out a lot and make sure that we can continue to bring you content that gives you the clarity and courage that you're looking for. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com.

Starting point is 00:00:50 Use Code Alley at checkout. That's Good Ranchers.com, Code Alley. Hey, guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. here to remind you that God's eternal plan of redemption is still going off without a hitch. It's always going off without a hitch. And he's not surprised by anything going on in the world or anything going on in your life. Nothing throws him off. Nothing takes him aback. He's not looking down, wondering, how did you get yourself into this mess?

Starting point is 00:01:27 But he is sovereign. He is in control. He is the ultimate ruler over the heavens and the earth. And while we live in this broken world with evil and with things that cause fear and anxiety, we can trust that Jesus wins and we can trust that he is coming back to claim total victory. And we are to push back against darkness from a place of victory, not just for a victory, because we know that Jesus' victory is sure. It's something that we can look forward to and that we can,

Starting point is 00:02:05 anchor our hope in, even when it seems like the world is falling down around us. Certainly when we scroll through our phone and we see the news, it feels that way, but maybe it feels that way in your own life too. Maybe your life has taken unexpected turns over the past couple of weeks, over the past couple of years, and you're wondering where God is in all of that. But Romans 828 tells us that God works all things. That's all things together for the good of those who love him, who are called according to his purpose. Now, that doesn't mean that God is reveling in the evil or the wickedness or the violence that occurs, that he wants those things to happen.

Starting point is 00:02:45 That's certainly not true. It will always be somewhat of a mystery to understand that God is omnipotent. So he's all powerful. He's omniscient. He's omnipresent. He can do absolutely anything he wants. And yet he still allows really bad things to happen. bad things that are beyond our comprehension, that can be really tough to understand whether we're looking at what's going on in the world or looking at what's going on in our own lives.

Starting point is 00:03:13 And yet we know that both things are true, that we live in a fallen world and that God is totally in control. And the good news is, as we read in Psalm 37, that God is not doing nothing about the injustice and the evil that goes on. His wrath is kindling. and he has a day and an hour that he has preordained since the beginning of time, since before the beginning of time for his return. And one day he will avenge his people. One day, wicked will be no more. One day there will be no more sin. There will be no more sadness. There will be no more sickness. There will be no more abortion. There will be no more chaos. There will be no more confusion. And those of us who are believers in Christ Jesus for our salvation will be.

Starting point is 00:03:59 with him forever and ever in perfect peace. It will feel like, you know, after you've been on a really long trip and maybe you had a lot of travel delays and you had to deal with a really annoying gate agent who didn't want to give you any mercy, maybe you missed your flight and you've just been carrying this burden of stress and adrenaline for so long you don't even realize how much tension you have in your shoulders as soon as you get home and you're able to drop your bags and sit down and just that relief and that peace floods over you, that's how it will feel multiplied by infinity when we get to the other side of glory. No more burden of sin or sadness. So I just want to encourage you with that. I want to start out the week with that because we're

Starting point is 00:04:47 going to talk about some things today that could easily cultivate fear inside you or anger or sadness. And that's not why we talk about these things. Sometimes those are justified responses to what's going on in the news. But we can have peace and joy while still understanding what's going on in the world. We have to be able to do both. Our peace can't come from closing our eyes to what's going on. And the reason for that is I saw an influencer say, oh, we just need to ignore politics altogether because it just causes fear and anxiety.

Starting point is 00:05:23 While I understand that sentiment, what do we always say? Politics matter because policy matters. because people matter. Politics affects policy, policy affects people, and people matter. They matter to God because they're made in his image and therefore as Christians, they have to matter to us. And so politics is not the only or the primary way to love your neighbor, but it's a way to love your neighbor. Because how our policy changes and how our culture shifts has a real tangible effect on people, especially the most vulnerable, especially the powerless, including, and I would say especially children, both in and outside of the womb. So a lot of the stories that we're going to be talking about today

Starting point is 00:06:04 have to do with that. They have to do with evil. But what can we do as Christians who are here on this earth, who are seeking the welfare of the city that God has providentially placed us in? What can we do to push back against darkness for the glory of God and for the good of other people? So that's what today's episode is going to be about. But I just want to read you first, kind of in the spirit of that. I want to read you this incredible testimony that I saw Denny Burke post on X. Denny Burke, we've cited him many times before. He is a seminary professor. He's awesome.

Starting point is 00:06:38 But he quoted Wayne Grudem, who recently wrote about this Christian school that he started in Chicago in the 80s. If you don't know who Wayne Grudem is, he's an incredible theologian. He's written lots of things, but the thing that I cite most from Wayne Grudom, we've also had him on the show before, is systematic theology. I really encourage you to invest in a systematic theology book. It's a little bit pricey, but it's very well priced for what you're getting. The theological information and the clarity of what you are getting in systematic theology from Wayne Grudham is just incredible.

Starting point is 00:07:12 It will be invaluable to you. It will break things down and you will treasure this, I think, for the rest of your life. So go get you systematic theology by Wayne Grudam. But he wrote this and it was a testimony about, Charlie Kirk and is just amazing. He said, sometimes the results of our ministry appear many years later. In 1982, when our oldest son, Elliot, was in third grade, Margaret began to think that we needed a Christian school in the north suburban Chicago area. There were none near us. As we talked, I agreed with her. We began to talk with other parents, and soon we formed a committee to address

Starting point is 00:07:47 the possibility of founding a Christian school. After many presentations at many churches and in many homes Christian Heritage Academy opened in 1984 in Northbrook, Illinois with 59 students in grades kindergarten through sixth. The school now has moved to nearby Northfield, Illinois, and has over 400 students in grades K through 12. I was the first president of the board from 1982 to 1984. I think many of you who received this prayer memo, so this is a prayer memo that he sends out, worked with us to get Christian Heritage Academy started. I'm going to try not to cry as I read this last paragraph. Try not to. Ooh. Okay. I can do it. I don't know. Can I do it? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:08:34 Okay. He says, fast forward to about 2005. Oh my goodness. He says there was an 11 year old boy in fifth grade. And one day after hearing a challenge from a teacher, he raised his hand to commit his life to Christ. This commitment set the direction of his whole life. The young boy's name was Charlie Kirk. Okay. I just stop crying now and just encourage you with this, that you never know. You never know what seeds your small step of obedience is planting. You just never know. This was an idea that Wayne Grudham's wife had. Maybe she was just asleep one night. She woke up and she said, hey, this would be a really good idea.

Starting point is 00:09:28 Maybe it was something that had been cultivated over time by multiple people in her life. But God planted the seeds of this idea more than 10 years before Charlie Kirk was born. And yet God knew. God knew before he placed that idea in her heart before the, they were able to raise their first dollar, God knew every single student in every single life that would be disciples and affected through this school. But he also knew that it would affect Charlie Kirk's life. He also knew that this was the means by which Charlie would hear the gospel and believe the gospel. And God knew. God knew how this would set him up and how many lives

Starting point is 00:10:14 would then be changed through God by Charlie's evangelism. And so you just don't know what God is doing. You might not even get to see in this lifetime how many people you have affected just by doing the next right thing in faith. And so I just want to encourage you that the seemingly small, unseen, unsung acts of obedience that you are doing every single day in your home, at your work, at your school with your neighbors in your community, God is doing something with them. And it won't be until we get to the other side of glory that we see the fullness of the tapestry that God has put

Starting point is 00:10:58 together that makes up all of the interwoven testimonies of his church for the past 2,000 years. Like how good is God? He is in the business of redemption of making beauty out of ashes and Satan can try his darndest. God has given him some authority as the prince of the power of the air as we read in Ephesians too. But God loves to give Satan a little authority, stack the odds against himself and then do what seems like the impossible to bring himself glory. And God will stop at nothing to bring all of his flock to himself. So don't be discouraged. Don't lose heart. don't be dismayed. Remember, we serve a Jesus who has overcome the world.

Starting point is 00:11:50 And he has very graciously ordained that you and me are vessels by which he is going to accomplish his perfect well. So let's live trusting in God's sovereignty. Let's live boldly knowing that we are immortal until God calls us home. That we are bulletproof until God calls us home and go full steam ahead. and complete and total surrender to Christ. All right, we got to get into some more stuff in just a second, but I just want to say a couple things. One, we are less than two weeks away from Share the Arrow's,

Starting point is 00:12:25 which I'm wearing my Share the Arrow's, Carly Jean, Los Angeles sweatshirt right now. You can see it. This year's Share the Arrows is brought to you by Carly Jean, Los Angeles, but they've also got all of our merch. We are going to have more merch than we did last year because we underestimated how many of you would want the item. but all of the stuff is so cute. I posted some pictures on my Instagram today. You can see the rest of it. You'll be able to get it there. This is only available for event attendees. So come to share the

Starting point is 00:12:54 arrows. There's a lot going on in the world, y'all. It can feel scary. It can feel overwhelming. And you might feel alone. Whether you are a curious skeptic or whether you are a seasoned believer, whether you are 18 years old or 85 years old, this is for you. Whether you are single, whether you're married, whether you're a mom or a grandmother, it doesn't matter. This is for Christian women and seeking women in all stages of life. And I'll go ahead and warn you, if you're looking for self-help, if you're looking for theological fluff, if you're looking for motivational speeches, share the errors is not for you. You're going to be wildly disappointed.

Starting point is 00:13:32 But if you want theological depth, if you want to be challenged, if you want to create lifelong friendships with fellow believers, like if you want to walk out there with zero fear of man, If you want courage, if you want to feel grounded and emboldened and like you just want to sell out for Christ, no matter the cost, then you should come to share the arrows. You will walk out of there knowing that you're not alone and knowing that the cause of truth in the name of the gospel is totally worth it. So I really want you to join us. I'm so excited. It's going to be amazing. If you go to share the arrows.com, you'll see more information.

Starting point is 00:14:13 about the speakers. If you're watching anywhere right now, you can see the speakers that we have coming. It's going to be so good, y'all. Go to share the arrows.com. You can use my code. If you press unlock on Ticketmaster, type in Alley 20, no spaces,

Starting point is 00:14:26 and that will give you 20% off any of the tickets. So go to ShareThearrows.com. Use that code, Alley 20. So excited to see you guys there. Before we get back into the show, let me tell you about our first sponsor. And that is EveryLyrois. We love Every Life.

Starting point is 00:14:44 They're also going to be at Share the Arrow's. It's where we get all of our diapers and wipes. Let me tell you, I would not be using Every Life if they didn't work. Like if their products weren't really effective, I couldn't give them a personal endorsement. But they're the diapers we use. They're the wipes we use. Really love them. They really work so well.

Starting point is 00:15:05 But also, I love their values. I love that they are putting their money where their heart is, that they are supporting pregnancy sinners. You can buy their buy for a cause bundle on their website and that sends resources like diapers and wipes baby items to these pregnancy centers that are serving moms and their babies. And plus if you use my code Allie 10, you get 10% off your first order. So it's just a win all around. Support America's only pro-life diaper company. Get great diapers and wipes and get a discount with my code Alley 10. That's everylife.com code Allie 10. All right. So we are going to have more information, I'm sure, about this as the days and weeks go on. But I just want to acknowledge this absolute tragedy that occurred yesterday. A Michigan Mormon community was targeted in Grand Blanc, Michigan. It's a town that's 60 miles northwest of Detroit. The suspect is identified as a 40-year-old man from Burton, Michigan. He was later shot dead.

Starting point is 00:16:15 by the police and the buildings car park. Right now, we've learned that there are four dead and that there are at least eight injured. But what I'm reading from the BBC is that some people remain unaccounted for. I mean, I am sure that there were children that were victims. We don't know for sure why exactly this person targeted the Mormons in this community. If he had some kind of personal tie, I think there's some speculation about that. It does seem that this is a pattern, not specifically for Mormons,

Starting point is 00:16:55 although I'm sure that Mormons are targeted in a variety of ways. But certainly non-Islamic religions, whether it's a Christian church, whether it's a Mormon community, whether it is a synagogue over the past few years, we have seen. this kind of extremist, what seems like progressive or pro-Palestinian violence against these kinds of institutions. And so, I mean, not only pray for this community who has just been indelibly affected by this and pray for the families, give them peace, pray for the people who are in the hospital who are injured, but just we've got to pray for some. I mean, obviously, hopefully we are seeing an awakening and revival.

Starting point is 00:17:44 that is going to seep into the hearts of all kinds of people. But we are seeing a certain segment of American society become more and more radicalized and more and more violent against who they perceive as their enemies of their radical movement. And obviously, like we saw the completely disparate reactions to Charlie Kirk's assassination from, you know, by an avowed progressive. and the death of George Floyd, we had vigils versus violence. And I think the difference is only going to become more and more stark. And we have to stay committed to peace. We have to show that dichotomy of light versus darkness. But that does not mean that the government does not have a role to step in in a very aggressive way to do whatever they can to preempt this kind of violence.

Starting point is 00:18:41 And so praying for that. train that our leaders would have courage to do the right thing and to do what they have to do to carry out their God-ordained responsibility as we read in Romans 13 to restrain evil. Not only did this murderer shoot up this, shoot up this Mormon community, but also used accelerant on the building, most likely gasoline, to start ablaze. and then, you know, the entire building caught ablaze. And I don't think we know yet the damage, the extent of the damage. So please pray for them.

Starting point is 00:19:21 Pray for this community. Pray for an end to this kind of violence. All right. We'll probably be talking more about that in the next couple weeks. But I wanted to talk about something that we actually haven't addressed in a while. We've talked about it over the span of relatable many, many times over the years. But we kind of, we've taken a break a little bit from talking about things like surrogacy and IVF, not intentionally. There's just been a lot of other things to talk about,

Starting point is 00:19:52 but I have a lot of new people here. And so just buckle up for a conversation that maybe you haven't heard before. I am having Katie Fowse speak at Share the Arrow's and she's the best on this. She is the best on pro-child politics and how we center the child and how we structure society and how we pass laws. And she is a champion of the reality that kids are best suited. The ideal situation for every child is to live with their married biological mom and dad. And before you post your caveats and your kind of exceptions to that, that is the ideal. That is in general true. That is in principle true. That is in principle true. Every data set we have and we'll get into some specific numbers shows that kids are best, best suited to live with their married biological mom and dad.

Starting point is 00:20:53 Yes, there are some exceptions to that, but the exceptions just prove the rule. So when we venture outside of that, whether it's two men or two women raising a child, whether it's one woman or one man raising a child, you fall outside of the ideal. Now, sometimes that's inevitable. There's a death of a parent or maybe the mother was abandoned. Of course, sometimes those are tragic scenarios. But when we are talking about the sexual revolution that has occurred over the past 20 years and especially the past 10 years since Obergefell, we are talking about intentionally creating motherless and fatherless children, intentionally taking children out of the ideal

Starting point is 00:21:36 and putting them in the most charitable terms, a less than ideal situation, knowing that the data shows us that this is not best for their well-being. This is not best for their upbringing. And as Christians, we are called to champion the cause of the fatherless. And for whatever reason, there are a lot of Christians, especially those who fancy themselves social justice Christians, who don't include these children who are being purposely raised, without a father or purposely raised without a mother in that category of vulnerability,

Starting point is 00:22:12 of fatherlessness that we see throughout scripture. And I'm sure that we can deduce that motherlessness would be included in that category of vulnerability. But that is such a historical aberration that it wouldn't have made sense for at the time the Bible to have language for that. Because it's been virtually impossible and so very rare for a mother to abandon her children. But now through IVF and surrogacy and the loosey-goosey regulations of adoption, motherlessness is not only allowed in society today, but it's celebrated. We treat children who are born in these surrogacy situations worse than we treat puppies or kittens. We understand that puppies and kittens need to stay with their mom for at least six weeks.

Starting point is 00:22:57 But when you have two men that buy the eggs from one woman, that rent the womb from another woman, and then force this child away from their biological mom and away from the only body and home they've ever known immediately after birth, place them on their strange hairy chest. You've got two men who are exploiting these women and who are commodifying this child and treating this child worse than we treat animals in the United States. Okay. That is just one small part in one small, terrible. consequence to the LGBTQ revolution that has just taken over the past 10 years.

Starting point is 00:23:39 But when you change the definition of marriage, of parenting just a little bit, that opens the door to every other kind of relationship. So now it's not just two men or two women who are having these children through whatever means possible, but now we have three men or two men and one women or any kind of combination of thruple or polycule that's out there being validated and allowed to raise children. Because we have decided to lay a child's needs and well-being on the altar of adult sexual wants. We are no better than the Aztecs. We are no better than any other pagan society that has ever lived.

Starting point is 00:24:25 We are still sacrificing children. Whether it's through abortion, whether it's gender ideology, butchering the bodies of children or whether it's through this, purposely laying them down on the altar of adults' sexual whims. That's what's going on right now, especially in Quebec. I saw this video going around that explains that this polycule of three dudes just adopted a little baby girl, and my heart is just broken. Here's that one. For the last seven years, Jonathan Bedard, Eric LeBlanc and Justin Maure have been waiting to become parents to get. something that officially happened yesterday.

Starting point is 00:25:04 She's perfect, of course. Like any, she's curious, she's energetic, she loves to play, she loves to jump, she loves to dance. They adopted their three-year-old through Quebec's youth protection services, but first had to be approved as foster parents, something that required a lot of work and openness, they say, to their relationship. We had a lot of things to go through in order to be able to have that accreditation. And it's through that process that they learned that we are a little different because we're three, but we're not different from any other family. You actually are, though, because you're three dudes, which tells me you have no moral limits.

Starting point is 00:25:45 Like if you're willing to not only defy nature and you are willing to defy even liberal definitions of marriage, and you live in some kind of inherently, stable polycule situation, then you do not have the correct components to raise a child. I think that, okay, even if we take religion out of it, let's just look at this scientifically. Two men or two women who want to be in a relationship have to acknowledge that they do not have the parts that are needed to create a child. And therefore, because biology, not big, has set limitations on your reproductive abilities, then there should be limits and restrictions and regulations around your ability to obtain and raise a child. Because you see all of the hoops that have to be jumped through and all of the moral limitations that have to be placed to the

Starting point is 00:26:55 side in order for an inherently unstable relationship like this to procure a child. I'm very sad for this little girl and I will say without apology. And this is like this is a big statement and it's hard to say because I think foster care is so terrible in so many ways and that it's not even close to an ideal for a child. but this little girl would be better off in foster care until she is 18 years old than living with three men who are living in a polycule situation. What 100% because there is no end to the confusion and instability and chaos that a situation like this can cause. I've got more to say on that in just a second. Let me pause, tell you about our next sponsor for the day.

Starting point is 00:27:52 It's good ranchers and thankful, so thankful for Good Ranchers. We have been using Good Ranchers for years. This is a subscription box that you can get sent to your front door every month of all American meat. And you've got beef, you've got different cuts of steak, you've got better than organic chicken, you've got all seafood. They've got seed oil-free chicken nuggets, which are really good. They've got bacon. They've got all kinds of stuff. And when you purchase from Good Ranchers, you are supporting American farms and ranches. but not only that you are also supporting a Christian family Corley and Ben, they've sat on this couch, I've talked to them, they'll be at Share the Arrows, they're the real deal. They are truly trying to live on mission, glorify God and everything they do. They care about the American family. They care about American industry. They are, I think, living out that Jeremiah 29 command to seek the welfare of the place that we have been placed in by God. And this also just makes your life a lot easier and more efficient.

Starting point is 00:28:53 That's certainly been true for us. Go to good ranchers.com. Use promo code alley. You'll get $40 off plus free meat for life. They'll do an add-on of your subscription when you use my code alley. Goadranchers.com code alley. Okay, so this is totally legal in Quebec, but this is also legal elsewhere. In Glamour magazine, I found this article from 2017, a New York judge granted child custody

Starting point is 00:29:24 to a polyamorous family. A Suffol County Supreme Court judge ruled in 2017 that three adults could share custody of a 10-year-old saying the child viewed all three as parents and the three parents offer a loving environment. See, this is where love is love gets us. Love is not love. That's just circular. That's like saying trans women are women.

Starting point is 00:29:46 But what's a woman? What is love? Like that's important. It's not just a feeling. It's not just a desire. it's something deeper than that. It is seeking the best interest and the well-being, the highest well-being of the person that you are trying to love.

Starting point is 00:30:03 And we don't define that by just what they want or just what we want as Christians. We understand that we define good and we define benefit and we define well-being. We define love how God defines all of those things because 1 John 4-8 tells us that God is love. So he gets to define it. And one thing we read about love in 1 Corinthians 13, verse 6 says that we should never rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoice in the truth. So we cannot affirm sin. We cannot validate lies.

Starting point is 00:30:34 We cannot support destructive policies and say that we are loving someone just because we are affirming their way of life or we're not being judgmental or we're validating how they feel. That's not love. And by the way, Christians are called to judge with righteous judgment. We are not called to be hypocrites. And so we shouldn't be condemning someone for something that we are also actively guilty of. But we are supposed to be calling a spade a spade. We are called to tell the truth. We are called to push back against darkness and to expose the unfruitful works of darkness as we read in the book of Ephesians.

Starting point is 00:31:13 And so it is very important for us to be able to look at something like this and say no. In fact, that has been the history, the legacy. the heritage of Christians since the very beginning. It's not about being divisive or even primarily political. It's just about being biblical. First chapter of the first book of the Bible. Genesis 1-27 tells us that God made us male and female in his image. He created us. He created gender, marriage, family, the value of human life, all in one verse in the very first chapter of the first book of the Bible. For Christians, this should not be hard. Okay, so let me keep going on this story and clamor. Don and Michael Marano, a married couple, formed a polyamorous relationship with

Starting point is 00:31:50 their neighbor. Okay. And their neighbor carried their son via surrogacy. And all three co-parented until Dawn and Michael's divorce sparked a custody battle. What? They got a divorce? I'm shocked. I, I, that, that, that, that just throws me for a loop.

Starting point is 00:32:09 I definitely thought that this was an, in sickness or in health, holy covenant kind of situation here. I can't believe that this is inherently unstated. at the time one of these people, Michael, plan to appeal the ruling saying that Don is not entitled to custody because she isn't biologically related to the child. Oh, see the problems that surrogacy causes. Has caused since the beginning, by the way, some people who push back against my surrogacy stance, because I think it's always wrong in every situation, because you're always asking the child to do something difficult on behalf of the whims of adults, which is leave the only

Starting point is 00:32:50 body, the only home that he or she has ever known. And if you got a question about adoption, I'll answer that in a second. But it creates these complications. And going back to the beginning, going back to Genesis again, like we see the complications of surrogacy when we look at Hagar. People say, oh, well, surrogacy is in the Bible. Yeah. It was bad. Like, it didn't end well. God still took care of Hagar, took care of Ishmael. But it creates. problems. It created complications. Anytime you venture outside of God's ordained definitions for marriage and family, one man, one woman, for a life, first marriage, then kids, things get complicated. Can God redeem? Can God save? Can God rescue? Can God work in and around our sinfulness? Yes, of course,

Starting point is 00:33:41 because he's good and he's perfect and we're not. But we should do everything that we can to intentionally stay within God's bounds because we know that he's good. God created marriage in the family for a lot of reasons to reflect the marriage between Christ and the church, but also on a practical level to protect women and children, because women and children are physically weaker. And so we need men to protect us. And so marriage is amazing because a man who is called in Ephesians 5 to love his wife, to lay his life down for his wife, is a protector for the woman who is also serving as a protector for the child. Like this saves the child from the predation of the medical industrial complex or from a government prowess or from any kind of predator, from any kind of exploiter, like a strong family unit is the biggest defense against all sorts of societal decay. And this is exactly why Satan comes after it.

Starting point is 00:34:45 And has from the very beginning, like what did he do? what was part of the curse? There's been enmity between the husband and wife because of Adam's sin of passivity and because of Eve's sin of disobedience and not trusting God. And we still see that manifesting itself today. Because Satan knew, by the way, that redemption would come through a child. And so he has it out for children because they are vulnerable. So he has it out for marriage. All of this is satanic. And Christians have always has been called to speak out against the satanic. California, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Washington, Vermont allow courts to recognize more than two parents under specific conditions. And there are

Starting point is 00:35:30 other states that have court rulings that support tripartite. So like this kind of polygual situation, custody, or parental rights for a third parent. And there's really no end to this. because if three people can all claim to be a valid parent to a person, then why can't 50? And so is that, is that inherently less valid? And why? If we have 50 men who say, oh, yeah, I want to adopt this baby girl. Is anyone allowed to raise an eyebrow? Is anyone allowed to say, ooh, something doesn't feel right about this.

Starting point is 00:36:09 I'm going to raise a red flag here. Are we allowed to say that without being called bigots? Or maybe we should just stop caring. Maybe we should start caring about the well-being and the rights of children more than we care about the sexual whims or even just the desires, any kind of desires of adults. That's a well-ordered society, right? And at least when it comes to adoption, there are some restrictions. Like, even though unfortunately these three men were allowed to adopt this child, they did have to do some things. They supposedly had to prove that, you know, they had to.

Starting point is 00:36:44 some semblance of a stable life. However, when it comes to surrogacy, no such regulations exist. You don't have to go through a background check in order to obtain a child through surrogacy. All you have to do is have money. You find the egg donor in a catalog. You find the surrogate in a catalog. And as long as you can pay the tens of thousands of dollars, as long as the women will sign the dotted line,

Starting point is 00:37:14 you can have as many children as you can afford. No one's going to follow up with you. No one's going to come to your home to make sure that child is okay. Surrogacy and the reproductive fertility world in the United States is the wild, wild west. It is worth billions of dollars. There are virtually no regulations on it. And this is a crime against children. We've got, and this is true whether we're talking about LGBTQ, it's also true.

Starting point is 00:37:43 when we're talking just about like the ethics behind IV, IVF and surrogacy in general, like we've got a million babies, a million embryos who are on ice. Either they've been abandoned, they've been forgotten about, they've been left to be destroyed or thought out. Like, it is such an egregious sin. What we do to unborn life in the United States, it is incredible that God has given us so much mercy and has shown us so much patience,

Starting point is 00:38:15 but I want Christians to rise up and to speak out against this stuff, speak up on behalf of children, speak up on behalf of children's rights. Children should have an acknowledged legal right to a mother and father, ideally their mother and father. But everything should be done

Starting point is 00:38:34 when children are in foster care, when they are seeking adoption, no matter the situation, everything should be done to ensure that child has a baby, mother and a father. Because men and women are different. They're not interchangeable. Husbands and wives are different. Moms and dads are different. God knew what he was doing when he made our biology. I was talking to Elisa Childers the other day and she said something that I hadn't heard before that I thought was a cool

Starting point is 00:39:01 way to think about, which of course we knew. So everyone has their own full digestive system, right? You've got your full circulatory system. We have our neurological system. We have our neurological system. like it is complete inside our body as a rule, but you only have half of a reproductive system. Everyone only has half of a reproductive system. It cannot, it doesn't produce anything on its own. It needs the other half. And so God created men and women in this obviously, biologically complimentary and necessary way to advance the human species. And so those of you who believe in science, don't you think at the very least that science tells us, us a little something about how society should be set up, how marriages and families should be

Starting point is 00:39:49 structured. Of course, I believe that is not only science, but it's also scripture. It's also God himself, who is so intelligent and so creative and so good in creating the family structure for us. I think this is like the biggest issue of our day that Christians just need a lot more courage to speak up about. I love that you speak out against sex trafficking. I love that you speak out against other kinds of exploitation. Are you willing to speak out against the reproductive industry? Are you willing to speak out against the corruption and adoption and foster care agencies? Are you willing to speak out against the redefinition of marriage that has led to millions of fatherless and motherless children? Now, before I get into this data,

Starting point is 00:40:34 which we'll get into in just a second, I do just want to answer the question that I often get, okay, well, we're talking about surrogacy especially, because I'm not trying to conflate surrogacy and adoption. They're not the same things. But particularly when we are talking about two men obtaining the egg, obtaining the womb, and taking this child away from the mother and the woman who carried them, how is that any different than adoption? That's what people ask, because adoption requires you to take this baby away from the mother as soon as he or she is born. So if we're talking about the effects of that, then aren't they morally equal? Well, no.

Starting point is 00:41:16 And this is a phrase that we came up with a long time ago that I think helps us understand the difference. Adoption, as a rule, redeems an already broken situation. Surrogacy, sperm donation, egg donation creates a broken situation. So when a woman gets pregnant, she doesn't mean to get pregnant. She doesn't want to be in the situation where, you know, she has a pregnancy of a baby that she can't take care of. She is looking for a redemptive option. And so she bravely gives this child up for adoption that is redeeming a broken situation. But when you are intentionally creating children for the purpose of taking them away from their biological parent or raising them fatherless or motherless, you are creating.

Starting point is 00:42:03 that broken situation. So that's the moral difference. It's a really big moral difference and it really, really matters. All right. Let's get into what the data actually says about how kids fare in different kinds of homes. But let me pause, tell you about our next sponsor, that's Jace Medical. Jace Medical, make sure that you are prepared for your next medical emergency. Hopefully this never happens to you, but you might be in a situation where you really quickly need an antibiotic because you or your child and some kind of infection that you need to take care of. But you don't have antibiotics on hand. And who knows, you never know what's going to happen with the supply chain,

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Starting point is 00:43:21 They'll take you through it, get you the medication that you need. Go to jace.com code Alley. So here's a summary of the data that we found. children and stable, married, biological, two parent homes consistently show the best outcomes across multiple domains, including cognitive development, educational attainment, behavioral health, emotional stability, and economic security. They have lower rates of delinquency, substance abuse, and mental health issues, higher high school graduation and college attendance rates. That really should just be it right there. Like we should say, okay, no matter what your personal beliefs are, no matter what your personal desires are, like the data is the data. is the data. And it shows that, again, even if you don't agree with the religious undertones of

Starting point is 00:44:10 this, that biologically, clearly we are set up in an ideal situation to be with our married mom and dad. It gives us a sense of belonging and purpose and identity that is really important for maturation and proper development. Now, are there kids who will be raised in a different kind of home who will be fine? Are there kids who are raised by an awesome married biological mom and dad who don't don't turn out fine. Yes, it's not judging it just by the outcomes, but also by just the morality behind it. But we're talking statistically. Like we're talking by numbers. We're not talking all. We are talking more likely. So we have to be able to understand things in those terms. A 2014 study in the Journal of Marriage and Family found that children raised by married biological

Starting point is 00:45:00 parents had a 50% lower likelihood of experiencing poverty, compared to single parent households and 30% lower than cohabitating households. A meta analysis of 100 studies showed children in intact two parent families had better academic performance and fewer behavioral problems, 60% lower risk of delinquency. This is from a 2001 study in the Journal of Marriage and Family. The National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, this is from 1997, found children of married biological parents were 20% more likely to graduate high school and 25% more likely to attend college than peers from single mother homes. What we also know that a very dangerous situation for a child

Starting point is 00:45:44 to be in statistically is to live with a male that is not related to him or her. That's not to say all stepdads are bad by any means. I know a lot of you out there are awesome stepdads and have awesome stepdad's. But again, statistically, a live-in boyfriend or a male partner who is not biologically related to the child is the most dangerous statistically person in that child's life. And that really matters. If we look at single mother homes, which I think is also important because we see this rise in fatherlessness, I mean, especially in among the black American community, I think it's something like 70% plus of babies are born out of wedlock, which if we're looking at like delinquency and instability and high school graduation rates, I mean, I think there's a reason why, for example,

Starting point is 00:46:38 Asian Americans, they have the lowest divorce rates and they have the highest rates of graduation and stability and, you know, financial resources and all of that. Those two things are really linked. The U.S. Census Bureau in 2020 reports that 65% of single mother households live below the poverty line, the fragile family study showed that children of single mothers had a 40% higher risk of dropping out of high school compared to peers from married biological parents. Again, we've got data about live-in boyfriends, a 2011 study found that children in cohabitating households with a non-biological male partner. Okay, so this is a man and a woman or two men.

Starting point is 00:47:16 Had a 10 to 20% higher risk of physical or sexual abuse compared to children in married biological two-parent homes. The National Survey of Family Growth showed that cohabitating unions with children were two to three times more likely to dissolve within five years. So think about the polycules that we were just talking about.

Starting point is 00:47:37 Then married unions, they also have higher rates of anxiety and depression than peers and married two parent homes. That's from a Manning and Lamb study from 2003. So we have very sparse specific data on polyamorous situations, but I think we can deduce based on all of that data that the best situation is a married mom and dad. Now, there are less than ideal situations because we live in a fallen world. However, we should be doing as a society everything we can to ensure that every

Starting point is 00:48:10 child has a mom and dad. And again, ideally a married mom and dad. Now, a lot of people say, well, what are Christians doing or Christians not stepping up? Look, evangelicals. Christians take up the lion's share of adoptions. Should there be more? There should always be more. Should the church be doing more to empty out the foster cares? Yes, there's always more. But I don't think this is primarily because the church hasn't adopted again.

Starting point is 00:48:40 Like look at any study, it is primarily specifically evangelical Christians who are going into these foster cares and adopting these kids. It's also because I think in a lot of situations, gay couples are actually prioritized. And we saw with Jessica Bates in the state of Oregon, she's a Christian mom, and she wanted to adopt these kids out of foster care. And the state told her no, because she would not sign a form that said, sure, I'll transition my kids if they want to transition their gender. Sure, I'll affirm their sexuality if they say that, you know, they're whatever they want to be. The state of Oregon tried to require her to sign that. She wouldn't sign it so they wouldn't let her adopt.

Starting point is 00:49:22 And thankfully, Alliance Defending Freedom won her case because it's religious discrimination. But how often is that happening in sneakier ways across the United States? I would say probably a lot. So I don't think that this is all on the hands of the church. I think it's also because we live in a very messed up world. And so in addition to trying to adopt these kids, Christians have to be changing policy. Christians have to be changing culture. All right. I want to talk about my friend Vody Baccombe, too, in today's episode. He was an incredible minister, preacher, husband, father of nine

Starting point is 00:50:02 kids, and he went home to be with the Lord last week at the age of 56 after a medical emergency. And I just want to honor him. I want to pay tribute to him. He has been on this show several times, and we've been in speaking events together. I think the last time I saw him in person was last June. We spoke at a church in Texas together. And gosh, he was like, he was going full steam ahead then. And I'm sure that just hadn't stopped. I know him and his family had just moved back to the states

Starting point is 00:50:35 and had a lot of exciting things ahead with founders ministries. He was working down there in Florida. And this is just a tragedy. I mean, it just seems like it's one. after the other. We've got James Dobson. We've got John McArthur. We've got Phil Robertson. We've got Charlie Kirk. We've got Vody Bakum. All of these incredible evangelical theological titans that helped so much infuse clarity into our confused culture. And the Lord is taking them home and adding them to his roster. And it's a huge gain for them. I mean, what an incredible time to be spending eternity together. But

Starting point is 00:51:13 It's a huge loss for us, and I don't think that we have to minimize that. So I'm going to go through some of my favorite things about Vodibokum, some things that I think that we need to remember him by in just a second. Let me go ahead and tell you about our next sponsor. I know they're kind of close together, but I've got lots of awesome sponsors today that I have to tell you about. The next one is crowd health. I don't have to tell you how crazy health insurance is. It can feel like such a hassle.

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Starting point is 00:53:09 Voddy sermons were awesome. And he just had so many good responses to the lies of this world, whether it was in his book fault lines. I mean, he's written lots of books, but that was his latest book that he wrote or just in the talks that he gave. And this is his response to atheism, sought to. We do not have a God who calls upon us for blind faith. We have a God who speaks. We have a God who has revealed himself. So those are the two things that I want to do, right?

Starting point is 00:53:39 Number one, just, you know, get off your moral high horse because you've got presuppositions just like me. And number two, look at what your presuppositions have wrought. And then number three, let me talk to you about mine. Yeah, it's so true. Everyone has presuppositions. Everyone has a lens through which they see the world. Everyone is bringing their worldview to the table when we talk about politics and culture.

Starting point is 00:54:03 And so if the atheist can bring their worldview to the table, we're talking about politics and culture, why can't the Christian without being in? called a fascist or a Nazi. No one is neutral. Everyone believes that their view of morality is right. Let's let the best idea win. And atheism has really bad ideas. Atheism is what has wrought so much suffering, especially in the 20th century through socialism and communism. So he's totally right about that. His big thing, I think one of the things he was known best for was advocating for Christian education, particularly homeschool, but really just not public secular education. One of his most famous quotes was, if you send your kids to Caesar, don't be surprised when

Starting point is 00:54:45 they come back Romans. That one brilliant line struck accord with millions of Christian parents across the country who decided right then and there to sacrifice whatever they had to sacrifice, financially, time, energy, effort to make sure that their child had a Christian education, either at home or in school. And gosh, you're so right. I mean, we're hitting on a lot of the most controversial things I talk about today. It's actually not abortion or gender among my audience. It's IVF, which you can go back, by the way.

Starting point is 00:55:18 We didn't really get into that and listen to my past episodes on IVF. We'll link a couple of them, but also public education because I'm a staunch advocate of Christian education, not because we absolutely know that it guarantees the outcome of your child's salvation or your child's life, but because of stewardship, because of obedience, because we only have so many hours to disciple our kids, and why would we outsource hours of discipleship to people who don't have the same worldview as us? Or who aren't even legally allowed to talk about the Christian worldview, even if they do share it. I was talking to a friend a few years ago who was like, yeah, I think we're going to send our child

Starting point is 00:55:56 the public school. They live in this nice, affluent area where the public school is probably better than others. And she was like, yeah, it's not woke. We live in this conservative area. And I know the teachers. And I've heard this a lot, whether you live in Alabama or Georgia, this was very a prevalent thing to think and say, especially a few years ago. But my thing is, even if that is true, which it's probably not. It's more pervasive than you think this progressive ideology. But even if that is true, even if you know all of your kids' teachers, even if you live in a conservative area, it's not just about what they're learning. It's also about what they're not learning. That even if it sands all woke stuff, they're not going to be learning about the word of God.

Starting point is 00:56:38 They're not going to be memorizing scripture. They're not going to be learning the Nicene creed. They're not going to be singing worship songs. They're not going to be learning that two plus two equals four because God ordained it to be so. And so if you're, if you're, child is not getting that kind of foundation, then they're missing out. And that's not to say that they won't become incredible Christians because primarily the parent is the discipller. But I think that Christian parents should do everything they possibly can to give their child a Christian education. Like in addition to my parents taking me to church and just being solid Christians themselves, greatest gift they gave me was giving me 13 years of a Christian education. You guys are asking me all

Starting point is 00:57:25 the time. How do you know scripture? How did you memorize scripture? How do you think like this? How did you learn to research Christian school for 13 years? That's what it was. Not only did it give me such a theological foundation, but writing, research, articulating argumentation. I didn't learn that in college. College was a breeze because kindergarten through 12th grade, I had a really good training, a really good theological training, not perfect by any means. No school is perfect. But gosh, I am still, I think, reaping the fruit of like a Christ-centered education for 13 years of my life. You just can't place a price tag on it. And I think more parents are financially capable of doing it than you think. Doesn't mean it won't take sacrifice. So thank you, Vody Buckham, for just being willing to not only live

Starting point is 00:58:14 that, but to speak that and to teach that, that changed the trajectory of millions of people's lives. So thank you, Vody Bakum, for your courage on that. Like I said, Vody has been on relatable several times. We've talked a lot about social justice, especially around the time of 2020. Here's what he had to say about social justice in 2023, top five. I think what we have to do is we've got to just stop, right? We've got to just stop, right? we've got to say enough we've got to call people to account and we've got to stop letting people make us feel guilty about things that we haven't done about things that we've had no part in about things that nobody we know had any part in enough already so good um he was such a strong

Starting point is 00:59:08 voice against social and racial justice and all of the critical race theory nonsense i mean he was also just like willing to call people out very specifically by name. And I just always appreciated that about him a lot. All right. We'll finish out by saying one more thing about about voting. Actually, we'll let him speak for himself. But I've got one last sponsor. And that's Constitution wealth. Second Corinthians 614 says, don't be yoked with unbelievers for what do righteousness and wickedness have in common or what fellowship can light have with darkness. That's especially true when it comes to our money. We want to make sure that we are supporting causes and supporting businesses that actually align with our values that won't use our dollars to actively work against us and our children.

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Starting point is 01:00:25 You should trust these guys. And if you just want to learn more about them, then you should just schedule a free consultation. Go to constitutionwealth.com slash alley. Get your free consultation today. See if they're right for you. Constitutionwealth.com slash alley. Constitution wealth is a registered investment advisor. You should review Constitution wealth's disclosures at Constitutionwalth.com to ensure their services

Starting point is 01:00:50 and fees. All investing involves risk, including the risk of loss. This is a paid endorsement. My opinions are my own. So Vody was married to his wife, Bridgett, since 1989. Like I said, they have nine children, nine children together. Seven of them are still in their home. and she is still committed to home educating them.

Starting point is 01:01:18 And so Founders Ministries has set up a go fund me for their family to just be able to live in dignity. I mean, Vody was the provider for the family. And with him gone, this is going to be really hard on Bridget, really hard on their kids. He's got adult kids, but then he's got kids that are still pretty young. And this is just really hard. It's going to be really hard for them. So if you can donate, if you can support in any way, whether it's small, whether

Starting point is 01:01:42 it's large. I know that's going to help her. We are called to help widows and orphans. We don't want to abandon them. And we have such amazing technology today that through the body of Christ, it's actually gives and go. I think I said go fund me. It's gives and go. Through the body of Christ, we can do this for people not only in our communities, in our congregations, but also around the world. So if you can give, please do. And I just want to play this clip of Vodie talking about his death, SOTS. You are going to hear. a rumor one day that Vody Walkim is no more. Don't you believe it? Don't you believe it? Don't you believe it? Because though I die, I will rise with Christ. It will not be the end of me

Starting point is 01:02:29 because Christ is raised and I too will be raised with Christ. That is why he is called the firstborn from the dead. Folks, you don't talk about a firstborn unless there's other. who are born after him. Don't you pity me. You pity the one who wants to hold on to Jesus without holding on to the resurrection. You pity the one who has absolutely no hope because they have no resurrected Christ. Oh, so good. He was so good. And I just hope, just like Charlie, that his message spreads further than it ever had before, that people read more of his books, listen to more of his sermons and that the gospel would be spread even further in his death. That's one thing that God does. And I'm so sad for his family. I'm sad for founders. I'm sad for Tom Askell's

Starting point is 01:03:23 church. I'm sad for all of us who benefited so much from him. So sad for his kids. But I just know that God brings beauty out of ashes and that he's going to continue to do that through the life and legacy of Odey Bakum. And yet again, we look at a saint who has died. And we say, I want to live like that. We should all hope that when we die, that the gospel will be spread further because of the things we said and did on Earth. So that's a good lesson for all of us. All right. We'll be back here on Wednesday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1247 | Three Men & a Baby: Polyamory Is Infiltrating Foster Care

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