Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1255 | Jihad vs. Jesus: Islam’s Plan to Conquer Christian America | Raymond Ibrahim

Starting point is 00:00:00 The sword versus the scimitar, the war between Christians and Muslims, has been waging for thousands of years. It is still waging today in ways that you may not realize. Today we've got Raymond Ibrahim here with us. He is a scholar when it comes to the history of Islam in its battle against the West and specifically against Christianity, y'all. This is an absolutely fascinating conversation that you. you are going to learn so much from. So get ready for it. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Constitution Wealth. Christian investors are often shocked to learn that their portfolios include companies supporting causes that go against their faith. That's why I trust Constitution

Starting point is 00:00:44 wealth. They screen investments so your money isn't propping up agendas that conflict with scripture. Constitutionwealth.com for a free consultation. That's constitutionwealth.com slash alley. Raymond, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Could you tell everyone who you are and what you do? Yeah, sure. Thanks, Sally. Thanks for having me. Well, how far back do we go? You can go as far back as you want to. Maybe start reset and then we can back up. Yeah. Well, I'll actually start from the back, but real quick summary. Blitz. So my family is from Egypt. My mom and father, they're Coptic Christians who came here in the late 60s. I was born here. Early 70s, 73 in New Jersey, which at the time when we were born there, there weren't cops or even many Egyptians. But I guess now it's like a little Egyptian town. it's one of the oldest but anyway then we moved out to california when i was 12 um moved around

Starting point is 00:01:46 but um as far as this field how i got into all this obviously because of my family background um i was interested especially their christian background from an islamic nation egypt obviously that kind of created an interest for me uh right away from early on um concerning the nexus of christianity in islam yeah even as a child i was interested in that And so anyway, long story short, I went to Fresno State and got my history degree where Victor Davis Hanson, who everyone seems to know now. It's funny because at the time when I knew him, we're talking like 25 years ago, he was, you know, he was famous at Fresno State, but he was just the classicist, a historian who writes military history. And I took those kinds of courses with him. Anyway, I got my degree in history and I was focusing on Islam and Christianity again, including with languages I was studying like Greek and Arabic.

Starting point is 00:02:43 And so my very first, my thesis was actually about the very first military encounter between Islam and Christendom, the most decisive one, which was the Battle of Yarmuk in the year 636. Anyway, then 9-11 happened right around when I was finishing up my thesis. And that's what really piqued my interest originally because I was always just involved in history and philosophy and theology. And I always thought of it as on its own over there. And then what happens in the now, especially because I was still younger and, you know, drinking the Kool-Aid that the media was equal from us about Islam. And I just thought it was, you know, it's not what it used to be. And then 9-11 happened. And I started reading what Osama bin Laden was saying in Arabic.

Starting point is 00:03:26 and it wasn't what he was saying to Americans. It was very different. He was actually quoting, oftentimes verbatim, the stuff that I was writing in my thesis, which was written hundreds of years ago. And that's how he was thinking. So that immediately piqued my interest, the continuity, that actually what I was studying,

Starting point is 00:03:46 you know, the Islamic conquest of the 7th century, which are seen as some sort of, you know, esoteric, you know, academic pursuit, were actually very much alive for these guys. who were declared war on the United States, essentially. And what was that? What was bin Laden saying in Arabic that he wasn't saying in English? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:05 Okay. So fast forward now after, so I write my thesis and 9-11 happens. And then even talking with Victor of Davis-Hanson, he's like, you should really continue on. And I ended up going to Georgetown University, the Center of Contemporary Arab Studies, which now I understand the political significance of it. know, maybe I'll get into that, but I was a naive student at the time.

Starting point is 00:04:29 Anyway, and then I got a job at the Library of Congress in the Near East section, and where I was like a kid in a toy store, because it was all these books and all these languages, and I would peruse through them. And so this is how we get to bin Laden. Then I came across un- cataloged writings from the Arab world, because the Arab world sent, the whole world sends books to the Library of Congress, writings from Osama bin Laden. and up until then, so what I was reading earlier from the news was Osama bin Laden saying, hey, we did this to you because you did this to us.

Starting point is 00:05:02 This is about reciprocal treatment. You, and his grievance list was just endless, okay? Well, that was circulating on TikTok recently. And there were Americans college students saying, wow, maybe Osama bin Laden was right. And it was basically that, look, this is the reason we attacked you because of all of this awful stuff. that America has done. But you're saying that's not what he was saying in Arabic. No.

Starting point is 00:05:28 So that's what he was saying. That's what the BBC and CNN and even Fox News were disseminating, which was this grievance mantra, okay? And it went from everything, from because you support Israel, from because of colonialism, from because of not signing the Kyoto Protocol for the environment. It was just like an endless list, right? Which was absurd, but a lot of people were believing it.

Starting point is 00:05:47 Okay, it was for the Crusades and how you guys did X, Y, and Z. Then, so now I'm at the Library of Congress, and I come through all these Arabic books and I find actual treatises written by Osama bin Laden and Amin Zawarhi. And now they're talking to Arabs and Muslims in Arabic and it's a completely different story. Okay, now it's, they don't mention any grievances.

Starting point is 00:06:07 Now it's just what we as Muslims must hate these people because they're kaffer, they're infidels. They are our enemies no matter what. Even if they're nice to us, we have to hate them. And within all this, of course, it's punctuated by Islamic scriptures validating their arguments. right? This is what you read from sources written by Bin Laden in a library of Congress right after

Starting point is 00:06:29 9-11 happened. Yeah, this would be probably around 2004 I came across all this. Wow. And then, you know, so long story short, I was taking it back. And this is, so when I told you, you know, my eyes were opened that how like they were talking about the past, it was during that time, okay? When it happened when I was still writing my thesis, I was just amazed that, you know, just the general jihad mentality thing was still happening. And so anyway, long story short, with those writings, which brings us up to what you're talking about, the TikTok thing, is I translated the book.

Starting point is 00:07:04 I got a book deal. It was published by Doubleday in 2007. It's called the Al-Qaeda reader. And what I did is I juxtaposed what Al-Qaeda had been saying to Westerners directly, which was all just grievances. And, you know, if you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone. And then I put what they were saying to Muslims. And it was basically ISIS.

Starting point is 00:07:24 Okay, as you know with ISIS, they're unapologetic about their hatred for infidels. ISIS, to their credit, has gone on record to say, we hate you on principle, not because of what you've done. So at least they're being honest. So they're not using the propaganda. So why is it that al-Qaeda or bin Laden was using these propaganda stick tools that we often see from China, Russia, these other actors that don't like the United States, which is they're like festering and digging in to the divisions that we already have. They're appealing to progressives. Maybe sometimes they're appealing to someone else trying to garner sympathy.

Starting point is 00:08:00 So why does ISIS not take that approach, but al-Qaeda does? Well, that's actually a good question. So with al-Qaeda, you know, they was effective what they were doing because they were addressing the West, like I said, pulling on their heartstrings and making very- still working. Yeah, of course, making very, very good argument. So when the TikTok thing came out recently, this was great for me because I managed to write several articles by simply recycling what I had written from 15 years ago and showing how, because they were

Starting point is 00:08:26 actually citing the same stuff that I had debunked in the al-Qaeda reader, because they would take letters where he said, you know, oh, America did this to us. This is why we're fighting back. And then I had shown how in another letter to Muslims, he said, well, it actually doesn't matter. There are enemies per se, okay? Right. So they were actually kind of smart. And what they were doing is exploiting the sort of Western guilt, which is at an all-time high. as usual, it's something no other civilization has for whatever reason. Maybe we'll get into that. Whereas ISIS, and that's actually a good question, why doesn't ISIS do this?

Starting point is 00:09:01 And, you know, there's a lot of conspiratorial theories as to why. But one of them, you know, on the surface would be that they're just, they're just, you know, they're not going to play that game. They're proud. We're not going to humor you. We want you to know you're a filthy infidel and we hate your guts and we're not scared of you. Whereas Al-Qaeda and other Islamist kind of organizations.

Starting point is 00:09:21 it's a little dishonorable what they're doing because they're being two-faced and they get exposed as I had exposed them at the time. But still, you still have both elements. A lot of, I would say the vast majority of Islamist type organizations and individuals still play the guilt card with your average westerner because your average westerner is pretty ignorant about actually what had happened between Islam and the West historically. Quick pause to remind you guys, if you were not able to make sure the arrows, or even if you were, and you want to see the recording of it. It will be available to Blaze TV subscribers this Monday, October 20th.

Starting point is 00:10:02 All you have to do is subscribe to Blaze TV, BlazTV.com slash Alley. You can use promo code Alley. You'll get $20 off the subscription. And you won't only get to see Share the Arrow's Our Christian Women's Conference. You'll also be able to access all kinds of Blaze TV subscriber exclusive content. So check that out, blazesttv.com slash Alley. Before we get back into that fascinating conversation, let me tell you about every life. Every Life is America's pro-life diaper company.

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Starting point is 00:11:34 Okay, Islam. Well, let's start with the word. Islam. It comes, and here, as I explained to you, you're going to see a lot of things that you had heard and how they were wrong. So one of the things that maybe you've heard is Islam means peace, right? And, you know, again, as usual, all the great lies have some truth. to them. So the word, in Arabic words are always cognates of certain roots. And the word for peace

Starting point is 00:12:02 and the word for submission, which is what Islam is, are actually the same root. And so Islam means that Salam is peace. Islam means submit and have peace. Okay. All right. So that's the religion. That's its very name. An Muslim. We say Muslim and they don't like that because in Arabic a Muslim means someone who's oppressed. But a Muslim, to pronounce it, I didn't know that they didn't like that name. Well, no, no. Their name is Muslim, but Americans pronounce it Muslim. And that's an Arabic word too.

Starting point is 00:12:33 Oh, it's just different. It means you're an oppressed person. So it's an interesting pun that Americans are calling them oppressed, which, okay. Yeah. Anyway, so a Muslim or a Muslim is someone who has submitted, which begs the question, what are they submitting to? And this is where what's known as Islamic law or Sharia comes into play. And Islam, I think the best way to understand it, and the problem that Christians have is they tend to project their sort of religious character onto other people.

Starting point is 00:13:05 And they think because Christianity has a very spiritual element and it's not about the law, at least modern day Christianity. They think that's how Islam is. But Islam is actually, it has nothing to do with, you know, the condition of your heart with God. It's just laws. It's like, how do you live your daily? life. All right. And it's actually so codified that most people don't know this. There's actually everything in the world that you can do in Islam. There's five categories. It's either obligatory. So like the five pillars, right? The prayers and the fasting, the Zegov. It's recommended.

Starting point is 00:13:40 You should do it, but you won't be punished. It's neutral. Okay, it doesn't matter. It's disliked. You don't have to not do it. But if you do, we'd rather you don't. And then it's forbidden. Everything in life. I mean, so that's, I mean, when you think about that, that's not how most people think of religion, right? So it's that codified. And then for our purposes, and I always say this because a lot of people, you know, when they get when they talk negatively or criticize Islam, they just talk about everything. Whereas for me, I think what's interesting and useful is to just ascertain the things about

Starting point is 00:14:13 Islam that are negative towards me as a non-Muslim. Okay. And they're actually quite limited, but they're also far-reaching. And they are basically, I've narrowed the down to three doctors. One, and I can tell you the name in Arabic, but it basically it preaches love and loyalty for fellow Muslims and hatred for non-Muslims, which is why Al-Qaeda and ISIS would say, irrespective of what the infidel does, we have to hate them. Every type of Muslim. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:40 Sunni Shia. So even those, because I've noticed, as Islam has come to the West and more of our neighbors are Muslim and they've got their social media presence and we're, when you see the snippets of their sermons or whatever, you know, they call it in their services, it doesn't sound that different than what a lot of pastors in Christian churches will say. They'll say, show the other gender double honor, be friendly neighbors, serve others. And it's like, I think to a lot of people, it's like, well, that must be a different kind of Islam than the Islam that we're seeing in Afghanistan. But what you're saying is every single Muslim everywhere abides by the principles you're talking about.

Starting point is 00:15:23 I wouldn't go so far to say that because I would say I know how every Muslim believes. What I'm saying is this is what Islam teaches. Yeah. And if you want to be a representative and a true follower of Islam, that's what you will do. But I mean, if you want to be a homosexual Muslim and say, you can do that, but obviously you're going against the religion. So what I mean is what here's what's going on. The so-called moderate Muslims, they exist. And some of them, you know, whether it's a pretense, some of them may be sincere.

Starting point is 00:15:50 But what we need to understand is they're not representative of Islam. Okay. So what we do is the dichotomy that's sort of pushed on us is that you have a moderate Muslim who's apparently following true Islam. And then you have the radicals who are like twisting it and turning it into something violent. That's what we in the West think. Exactly. That's what we think.

Starting point is 00:16:11 The truth is you do have the two groups. But what the truth is is that the so-called radical is actually following normative mainstream Islam, which by our standards, is radical, but not by their standards. And the so-called moderate Muslim, if he's truly moderate, and he may be, he or she, he's just not following it. It's like saying, I'm a Christian,

Starting point is 00:16:32 but then I do all sorts of things that are just completely not part of Christianity. Okay, so you can do that, but you're not representing true Christianity. So that's, I think, the dichotomy exists. You do have that and that, but the falsehood is thinking that the guys who act moderate represent real Islam

Starting point is 00:16:48 and the other guys represent false Islam. It's actually the other way around. So true Islam teaches that there is a love and loyalty towards other Muslims and a hatred for all infidels. Yeah. So the radicals will be up front. The ISIS types will be proud about it and we'll talk about it. The other ones will, so when you talk about, you know, you've listened to one of their sermons and it sounds not unlike a Christian pastor. Okay.

Starting point is 00:17:14 Well, a lot of that is because they know about those doctrines, but they also know there's a lot of infidels around them. and work can get out. So they try not to talk about that too much. Whereas if it's in the Islamic world, where they're comfortable and they don't know, what about info, then they talk about it. And it becomes very,

Starting point is 00:17:31 so it is obviously for show. I'll give you a very, an anecdote when I worked at the Library of Congress, which kind of, you know, speaks to what we're talking about. There were a lot of Muslims that worked there. And,

Starting point is 00:17:45 you know, I was actually friendly with a lot of them. And one of them, you know, I could tell he was a radical, you know, like deep down inside. He had the, like, he was a celophie, which, you know, he had like a beard and it was red and they'd shave the muslo. Which I understand what that means. It means he's, I'm following Muhammad to a tea.

Starting point is 00:18:03 And, but then he would act moderate and talk about, no, no, we can be friends with the non-Muslim. So I would debate him, just me and him, like sitting at a cafeteria and be like, well, what about the verse that says you have to hate the Muslims? And what about the verse about jihad and this and that? And then we started talking about, and this is important for everyone, for Westerners to understand, there's this whole thing about abrogation in the Quran. Okay, because the Quran was revealed piecemeal to Muhammad and over years, you will find contradictions. And so what the moderates will do is they'll take the good stuff, right? And most of the violent stuff comes later in Muhammad's career.

Starting point is 00:18:41 And the reason for that is in the beginning of his career, he was weak, outnumbered. So it was actually beneficial for him to pre-examble. You have your religion, I have my religion, which is one of the verses in the Quran, and there's no compulsion in religion. These are the verses that moderates always quote, and they are in the Quran. But then when he became stronger, he went on the warpath, and then the jihad, the jihading began, okay, and the conquest. And that's when he started receiving the militants, the ones that I'm talking about, okay? You got to hate them. You can't befriend them.

Starting point is 00:19:13 You have to wage jihad on them. Quran 929, it's known as one of the sword verses. And it basically says, fight the people of the book, which means the Jews and the Christians, until they pay tribute and feel themselves humbled. And with that right there was an open-ended declaration of nonstop war against Jews and Christians. Okay. And that's like, they're the lucky ones because the other sword verse talks about the pagans. And they're just to be killed right away.

Starting point is 00:19:39 They can't even pay tribute theoretically. okay so um so these are the violent verses that come later now um the abrogation was the muslim scholars later on were how do we make sense of the peaceful and the violent well which do we follow and the abrogation idea is whatever came later in Muhammad's lifetime supplants the earlier okay and and that's the final word so the earlier one mattered during the 10 years on Muhammad was weak for example but they don't pertain to us anymore us as Muslims and the other view which is very similar says no they both work and it depends on the particular Muslim today where he finds himself so if you find yourself you're in a strong position you should go by the militant violent one if you find yourself weak like

Starting point is 00:20:24 Muhammad was then you should preach peace intolerance okay and they're known as the older peaceful ones are the mecca verses and the more violent one are the Medina verses because that's where they were revealed later he went to Medina became stronger so I told this Muslim guy about that and that's first he kind of acted dumb like oh i don't know about that because he kept saying no no i believe in in peace but i already know i can tell he's a radical and then finally he got really frustrated and he says well what do you want for me i live in mecca and what he meant is i am following this peaceful mecca because like mohammed when he was weak and outnumbered in mecca i'm in was Washington, D.C., weak and outnumbered by all you infidels. So, of course, I'm going to preach

Starting point is 00:21:07 the peace. So, okay, so that's, you know, to me that was very telling and eye-opening and I think elements of that. Wow, that makes so much sense, actually, to how it has infiltrated Western civilization, because when Muslims are outnumbered, they sound and act a lot like their Christian neighbors. And then your Christian neighbors in the name of love and helping, you know, the people around us are thinking, well, I mean, We're all basically the same. We all worship the same God, but that's not quite right. Nope, it's not at all.

Starting point is 00:21:40 And Muslims understand that, and they're exploiting it because it's beneficial to them. It works just perfectly. And see, and that's one of the reasons Muslims can get away with this, mostly in the West, because Westerners come from a Christian heritage, whether they are or aren't. And even if they're not Christians, you know, Christian ideas have so suffused their worldview. You know, all that stuff that, you know, originally. when liberalism was still not crazy and it was good, you know, being nice to people and helping them. That comes from a Christian framework. And it didn't just develop out of nowhere. And,

Starting point is 00:22:12 you know, giving the guy, you know, giving someone the benefit of the doubt and being helpful. So that's why, you know, it's like you're mixing two bad groups. One is very susceptible to being exploited. Yeah. And the other is going to exploit as much as it can. Okay. And so that's sort of what's happening. Next sponsor is Mossa Chips. Y'all, we love Mossa. of chips so much. These are the best chips, not only because they're incredible ingredients. They don't have like citric acid or canola oil or anything fake in them at all. It's just sea salt, organic corn, and 100% grass-fed beef tallow. They're so good. And they also really work. And I know you're like, what are you talking about? Especially those in like the Midwest,

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Starting point is 00:23:44 So the love and the hate, that's actually, it's in Arabic, it's known as Al-Wala or the barat. It's actually one doctrine. The second doctrine is, and the way I explain it is, and so by the way, before we leave the love and the hate, the best and easiest way, I think, to understand it is it's tribalism. It's deified tribalism. It's now, you know, it's not, it's, you know, we are Muslims, we hate you.

Starting point is 00:24:05 You know, so it's almost, it's kind of like racism, okay, but it's not about race. It's about religion. It's religious supremacism. Okay? So we don't deal with you. You know, Muslims are brothers to each other, even if one is Arab and one is, you know, Turkish or a black. And theoretically, that's how it should be. And, you know, the infidel, we have to hate him.

Starting point is 00:24:24 Now that obviously leads to the next more important, more familiar doctrine, jihad. So jihad is warfare to conquer the non-Muslim world. And the reason that love and hate is so powerful because you need. an ideology like that to fuel jihad because now if I always hate you because you're the tribal outsider I'm it's going to make sense for me to want to fight you and subvert you and kill you and enslave you and whatever because you are the enemy and God tells me to hate you and jihad means literally jihad okay so jihad well you know when you translate a word on the older scholars sometimes what they would do is they would take a word and translate it into what it really not literally what it means

Starting point is 00:25:08 but the connotation that everyone an Arab here would understand. So they used to translate jihad as holy war, which is perfectly legitimate because that's kind of what it means. But the word itself means to struggle. And I always find it funny because a lot of the Muslim apologists point this out. And they say, oh, you crazy Islamophobes. Jihad doesn't mean holy war. It means struggle.

Starting point is 00:25:29 In fact, it does. But that actually makes it worse. And it really underscores how dangerous jihad is. Because, yes, jihad does mean to struggle on behalf of Islam so you can overpower and overcome the infidel world. Okay. And its historical manifestation has been through arms, through violence, because no one, including and especially Europeans, pre-modern Europeans, was going to be suckered into

Starting point is 00:25:54 being conquered the way they are now. So the only way to do jihad was through force and violence, okay? But in the common era, there's other forms of jihads that the Islamic scholars have actually articulated. And they're known as, for example, jihad. of the tongue and jihad of the pen. That means lying and propaganda, okay, on behalf of Islam. There's jihad of the money, which means I'm a rich billionaire Saudi. I don't commit to jihad, but I send millions to support it. There's the baby jihad, okay, which is, you know, and a lot of the

Starting point is 00:26:25 women see this as their burden, which is I'm going to have as many children as I'm going to have. We're going to flood the world with Mohammeds, which they're already doing in a lot of Western European capitals, the number one newborn baby, baby boy. Baby boy. My name is Muhammad. So actually, when people argue, oh, jihad just means struggle. Yeah, it does. And in fact, there's various manifestations of how this is happening, even though historically it was through holy war.

Starting point is 00:26:50 Wow. Okay, so what is this third doctor? So the third one is more of a historical one, but it's, so when I was telling me about Quran 929, fight the people, the book, the Christians and the Jews, until they pay tribute and embrace living as a second-class citizen. So now, okay, you started off with the hate, you fought, you constantly, you conquered. Now you got to keep these people living as just, you know, at best, second class, maybe third class citizens. And the people suffering from this today would be, you know,

Starting point is 00:27:18 non-Muslim minorities, Christians, Yazidis, Druze, as we saw recently, who live under Islamic rule because they're continuously being mistreated. And we're talking about millions of people around the world. So it wouldn't, you know, here in this setting or in the West, it's not too applicable because Westerners are still not under the yoke or the boot of the Muslim still. So it doesn't really apply. But it's so it just shows you, you know, it starts off with the hatred and the loyalty to fellow Muslims and tribalism. And then that manifests itself through violence and war or just jihad in general, which is different manifestations, including peaceful ways.

Starting point is 00:27:58 And then the end result is if you're still alive, you are a low life second class citizen. Muslims believe that they are from the line of Ishmael. Is that correct? Yeah. Yes. And Muhammad was who? Like, why did he start this religion? How did he gain all his power?

Starting point is 00:28:18 Well, it's interesting when you look at Muhammad's life, according to Muslim sources, of course. He starts off, okay, he's, you know, according to Islam tradition, he's born to 570. And he's at age of 40, so around 16. 10, Gabriel visits him, right, and starts pontificating to him, or actually, Koran means to recite. So they start reciting the Ayat or the verses that keep coming piecemeal over his until he dies. Okay, so from 610 to 632. And the first 10 years when he's living in Mecca, nobody followed him. It was just, and he was poor. And he was married to a rich widow older than him, who was essentially taking care of him. And he, you know, and he, he was married to a rich widow older than him.

Starting point is 00:29:01 And he did his father and parents. He was raised by his uncle. And he was just kind of like, you know, as a laughing stock. And a lot of the, the Kurdish, the tribes that were in Mecca, would laugh at him and mock him. And this, of course, is when we got the peaceful verses, as I was saying, right? You know, you have your religion. I have mine. Don't persecute me.

Starting point is 00:29:19 I won't persecute because it was weak and he was outnumbered. And then when he finally went to Medina, he actually became powerful. And he got a lot of tribes to join and work with him. And so I would argue that's that has from day one been the, you know, the blueprint of Islam. Islam was rewarding to men especially. So now if you join the winning team and you join Muhammad's caravan, we're going to, okay, we're going to kill, we're going to rape, we're going to enslave, we're going to plunder. And best of all, I mean, you know, tribal societies did this always anyway. But best of all, now we're going to go to heaven for it if we get killed and we're martyrs.

Starting point is 00:29:59 And we get more of that in paradise. Okay, so that's why I often say Muhammad basically his genius was he deified tribalism. And now it wasn't just, you know, me against the other, but it's me against the other. And then I even get, and the more I kill them, the more I'm going to be rewarded in the here and hereafter. And then, you know, and the men, of course, I say men, to get his men to get Arab men to follow him. You got all, you know, the sex slavery as being codified as in the Quran. I mean, think about it. God is actually telling you as a man, you can go and rape women.

Starting point is 00:30:34 Yeah, that's their God. And children, correct? Well, of course. Because Mohammed took a child bride. Aisha. Aisha, she was six, right? But didn't consummate until nine. So gracious.

Starting point is 00:30:48 And is that why we see, it seems, an acceptance of pedophilia? I mean, I read a very interesting article that kind of brought this to mind a few years ago. And it was actually about Jeffrey Epstein, but it was like the reason that we in the West rightly have a revulsion against Jeffrey Epstein is because of our Christian underpinnings. And because Christianity and going all the way back to Genesis said that marriage was about being able to have children, that right there to find marriages between not a man and anyone, but a man and a woman who is able to bear children. So just inherently in Judaism and Christianity, you see that you got to be an adult. But we don't see that in Islam. No. No, it's, you know, it's catering to every man's desires, whatever they may be.

Starting point is 00:31:38 Okay, four women, sex slaves, young. And there's Quranic version. I mean, you know, pedophilia of boys is a very real thing. It's very interesting because especially as someone who studies history, really, it was very, very common amongst Muslims, especially the Turks. It was known as a Turkish disease in the medieval era. And, you know, Christian Europeans would almost like, like try to kill their kids before having them being kidnapped.

Starting point is 00:32:03 Okay. And anyway, and even in the Quran, you have like these beautiful servant boys in heaven, which is kind of ambiguous. And some people say it's meant to be sexually enticing. Next sponsor for the day is Jace Medical. This is a way to stay prepared for your family. You don't want to get in a situation where you can't access the medication that you need. Could be a supply chain issue.

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Starting point is 00:33:05 So why do Muslims want to come to America if they can live basically in what she described as Medina, where they have power and they have the ability to exact their rule however they want to in the Middle East. But they come here and it's not like they, you know, disseminate. They don't spread out. They concentrate in Dearborn, Michigan, in Houston, Texas, in Minnesota and in London in other parts of the world as well. Is there a strategy there?

Starting point is 00:33:41 Is there a specific purpose why they're infiltrating the West the way they are? Well, I mean, first and foremost, I would say, it's just opportunism. I'm coming because, you know, you're right. In my country, I can live according to pure Islam. I don't have to disassemble. But their countries are poor,

Starting point is 00:33:58 and they live, you know, oftentimes in a horrific way. So primarily they're coming here because, and you believe it or not, you know, because historically it was forbidden for Muslims to willingly live amongst infidels due to the hate and tribalism, that they eventually had to all these scholars came up with fatwas or decrees allowing it. But as long as you maintain your Islam in your heart and the pre the sort of like pretext they all follow is if I'm here to help convert them. All right. Because that's one of the reasons a Muslim can go and live amongst non-Muslims.

Starting point is 00:34:31 He's engaged in what's called Dawa. He's calling them to Islam. So a lot of them, that's the pretext, but they're not here to assimilate at all. I just told you they hate the infidel. They're here to benefit, okay? Whether that means from actually having opportunities to get a job or more likely than not from just getting freebies, as you've seen a lot of these countries where they just go as migrants and they put them in hotels and, you know, stuff that the actual citizens who built the nations can't get.

Starting point is 00:35:02 So in other words, they're doing it because it's opportunistic for them. And, and the, but the tribalism and the hatred is still there. And so it regularly manifests itself in what we see, whether it's in America or whether more likely and more vividly and graphically in Western Europe, because the numbers are greater. So, yeah, they're not here to assimilate. They don't, they actually despise Western culture. Okay. They just, but they want the good stuff that the West produces.

Starting point is 00:35:30 Yeah. Muslim migrants are responsible for a disproportionate number. of sex crimes, especially in European countries. And we see the tolerance for that. It seems to be lowering, which that part is good. Obviously, the crimes are not. Why do you think that there is disproportionate representation of Muslims when it comes to those kinds of crimes?

Starting point is 00:35:57 Well, okay. So if you go to the Islamic world, you're going to see the same kind of crimes being get exacted against non-Muslims, Christian minorities, Hindus, you know, whatever, Yazidis, Drews, all sorts of Shias, who are the minority, you're going to see the same sorts of things because they're actually, again, they go back to the heart of Islam. Islam, you have it in the Quran where their God actually tells them you can not only can you have you four wives, okay, polygamy, but you can have, it's called what your right hand possesses, which means any woman you conquer who's an infidel, okay? The non-Muslim, you know, the non-Muslim,

Starting point is 00:36:34 exists to be plundered, enslaved, okay, killed. When back in the media, in the pre-modern era, even if they wanted, let's say a European wanted to send a delegation to talk to some Caliph or something, the Caliph had to go out of his way to, you know, make sure and send a special license to that person so he can travel through the Muslim land without being killed. Wow.

Starting point is 00:36:57 Because the default situation is once he sets foot, he gets killed. Okay, I mean, this is why, by the way, then this is why the new world was found. All these sailors from Europe were going west because they couldn't go east because that was the Islamic world. And once you go there, you're dead. Okay, once they get a hold of you. That's what prompted people sailing westward to try to get around, you know, the Islamic

Starting point is 00:37:21 east. So I lost my train of thought. That's okay. Just the reason I'm interested in the theological reason, which you've already touched on, why it seems like those kinds of crimes, crimes against women and little girls, seem to be especially prevalent in Islam. Okay, so yeah, that's what I was sort of getting at, which is that the default position between Muslim and non-Muslims, you're my enemy. And if you're a woman, okay, you know, and now, okay, so one of the themes that very few people understand is that, you know,

Starting point is 00:37:55 we know what happened in England and the so-called grooming gangs, but it's also happening all throughout Europe, right, in Sweden. You say so called. Well, because, I mean, that word, I don't, it's kind of very subjective. What's going on, is it just straight up rape, which we can call it that, or is grooming a euphemism? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:38:14 I mean, I guess that's a real debate, which I'm not too privy to, but I've heard both sides, and so that's why I put it in quotes. They were gangs who were raping children. We know that much, it seems. Right. But some people argue know that these, you know, they were actually seduced and groomed,

Starting point is 00:38:29 and they thought they were their boyfriend or whatever. And I'm not making that argument. That's why I'm saying for the longest time, the word I would always hear, including from the right wing, is grooming. But yeah, it is rape, obviously. Now, the thing about that, not just in England, but all throughout northern Europe. And one of the funniest things, and again, here's the importance of understanding continuity when comes to Islam and how unwavering it is.

Starting point is 00:38:54 I've written a lot about this phenomenon. And oftentimes the woman who's, raped or whatever happened to her, the Muslim will say some really degrading stuff like, okay, you white women exist for this. You white women are just good for this. You white women like it, okay? That sort of thing. Now, what's funny is because I study history, when you go way, way back on literally almost

Starting point is 00:39:18 in Muhammad's time, that kind of thinking existed. Okay, so it starts with Muhammad, who during his one of his campaigns against the Eastern Roman Empire, which would be, I guess white, a Greek. he tried to cajole one of his men who didn't want to commit and go fight. He's like, but don't you want the blonde women, right? And now after that, after Muhammad, then you get all these scholars who are writing in the 8th and 9th century. We're talking well over a thousand years who say the same things, who say literally white women, European women.

Starting point is 00:39:51 They usually would talk about Byzantine women because that's who's closest to them, but also Frankish women. And the same exact mentality. They like it. They're good for it. They're all slots and whores. Okay. So, and they also coveted and wanted them. So one of the, you know, things that few people understand is all the Viking slave raids on

Starting point is 00:40:11 England and France and wherever in northern European, a lot of those people were actually sold to the Abbasid caliphates because there was a premium for white slaves. So I tell you all this to show you that, you know, you fast forward and you go to these countries now and you see the same exact behavior because you're asking. me, well, why is it Muslims who are disproportionate? And you see the same exact behavior. And you find that, well, this is actually, they're just echoing their own heritage, which goes back over a millennium straight to their profit. So it's not surprising. Same thing with the crime, just crimes in general, theft. Yeah. You know, again, if you're the, okay, so remember Jizya

Starting point is 00:40:48 is you pay tribute. If you're an infidel and now you're under a Muslim rule, Jizsia, you have to pay us tribute so we don't kill you. So Muslim clerics, I remember one, he's very famous. in England and he says welfare, British welfare, because he was getting a lot of welfare, because he had like four wives and ten kids. And he says, well, this is Jizia. They owe it to us. Okay. So it's that mentality, you know, I'm here in the West not to contribute, not to assimilate. I'm here to take. Okay. And, you know, it's just amazing that we have a, then, you know, the other side is actually, which we don't talk enough about is the West. Because to me, you know, what's happening today is kind of unprecedented, but a lot of it is self-induced.

Starting point is 00:41:31 Yeah. You know, this isn't, you know, this, back in the day when Muslims would invade Europe, they fought tooth and nail to keep them out. And that's where I want to go. Okay. Let's go back. Let's go back because you're talking about all of this and you're like, well, it makes a lot more sense now when we look at history and we see Christians doing everything they could

Starting point is 00:41:51 to defeat the Muslim world. Right. And I've heard people point to that part of Christian history as an name. example of bad Christianity as evil, oppressive Christianity when they plunder the Muslim world. Right. But when you're talking about what Muhammad said, what the scholars were saying, about, you know, raping and pillaging their women and probably girls, it kind of makes more sense why they were so aggressive. So tell us what really happens, going all the way back. Sure, sure. Yeah, well, okay, now you've come to my forte. I'm excited. Yeah, well, great. So you're,

Starting point is 00:42:23 First of all, you're absolutely right. And what's presented is that the bad Christians were the guys who resisted this. Okay. And they won't even tell you they resisted. They'll just say there was no problems. It's the Christians who started. And it was the Christians who were attacking and hurting Muslims. That's the narrative.

Starting point is 00:42:41 About what time? Oh, well, they usually will reference the Crusades. I'll give you a very perfect quote. So I don't know if you ever heard of John Esposito. So, okay, he was a professor at Georgetown University. And he was a big deal back in the 2010s, and he wrote a lot of books. He's like the editor of the Oxford history of Islam. He's a big deal.

Starting point is 00:43:00 I remember a lot of, you know, the intelligence department go to him for information. So he has this line in one of his books, which I've literally memorized because I've quoted it so many times because it's just so absurd. He says that five centuries of peaceful coexistence between Muslims and Christians elapsed before an imperial papal power play. He's talking about the Crusades launched a series of holy world. wars causing enduring mistrust and resentment from Muslims to the West, okay? That's impressive. Yeah. So what he's trying to say is before the First Crusade in the year 1095, that's when it was called.

Starting point is 00:43:36 And Islam, you know, so Muslim Muhammad dies in 632. So we're talking well over four centuries, right? He's saying all that was just, you know, peace and love between Muslims and Christians. Well, in the real world, what happened is this. people, and here we go again, you know, with the intentional ignorance, people forget when we talk about Christianity and Christendom, when Muhammad was alive or during the seventh century, the vast majority of it was in what's today called the Islamic world. Okay, it was in Egypt, it was in Syria, it was in Turkey, Asia Minor. It was all throughout North Africa. Okay, so actually Europe, when we think of Christendom, was the smaller kind of little brother of the big Christian world, which is why Constantine, really the first Christian emperor moved it from Rome to New World. Constantinople in the east. Or put it this way, there's five major seas or centers of Christianity, and only one was in the West, Rome, which is what Christians know. The other four, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, and later Constantinople, which were just as equal, are now part of the Islamic

Starting point is 00:44:40 world. Okay, so to give you the brief lesson from the year Muhammad dies, 632, to 732, Muslims literally have conquered almost three quarters of the ancient Christian world through sheer savage violence from their own sources. Because they actually, in their own sources, they boast about because that proves the power of Allah, okay? And this was all before the Crusades. Oh, yeah. And it's kind of obvious when you think about it.

Starting point is 00:45:08 You don't even have to be a scholar of history to think, well, of course, that used to be Christian and now it's Muslim. How did that happen? But, you know, there are a lot of things like that in the world that we haven't really thought about. Right, right. And the reason I said 732 is because that's the famous Battle of Tours. So 632, Muhammad dies, 732. They are in the middle of France. They've already conquered Spain. They've conquered all of North Africa from Egypt to Morocco. They've conquered the Middle East,

Starting point is 00:45:31 greater Syria, which encompasses Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, all that nation, all those regions. And then thereafter, it's a continuous bombardment on the Mediterranean. And then later the Turks come, and they become their Muslim and they become the new standard bearers of Islam. And the jihad is rekindled and now Asia Minor is conquered. And this is so now, okay, so now all of, you know, all that's conquered. And then right before the First Crusade is when the Turks, who are extremely savage and violent, come and conquer Asia Minor and also the Holy Land. And they now, okay, so according to the sources, they've in, I mean the Armenians, we talk about the Armenian genocide. Actually, the Turks were genociding them over a millennium before the Armenian genocide.

Starting point is 00:46:16 If you look at the sources in the 11th century, when they started pouring into Armenia and then later Anatolia, Asia Minor, according to contemporary sources, they literally were killing tens of thousands of Christians and burning and destroying tens of thousands of churches. In one city, Ani, an Armenian city, which was the capital of the time, was known as a thousand and one city of a thousand one churches. They were all burned to the ground, okay? So this is now, and this is what prompted the emperor, the Byzantine emperor, Alexius, to call for aid from the West. And at the same time, Western pilgrims, who had always been going to Jerusalem, to the Holy Land, were being attacked and killed and mauled. One of the worst, the pilgrims, especially, one of the worst instances, which was well recorded, occurred in 1064. It was a large German pilgrimage.

Starting point is 00:47:05 And, you know, I went his sources, talk about not only did they kill everyone, but they took, there was a, they described her as a beautiful, or a nun who was they told her don't go but she really wanted to go the Pilgrim Ridge and they took her and it says these shameless men gang raped her until she died okay and then it says at the end and they did this sort of thing common all the time that is what led to the first crusade okay so think of what I just told you in one year even before that in the year 1009 okay so what we're talking about the Seljcich Turks and what's happening this is from like 1030s all the way to 1095 but in 1009 now you have a fatimid a Shia Khalif from Egypt, who actually in that year alone destroyed, according to a Muslim source, 30,000 churches and synagogues in Egypt and greater Syria, including the Holy Sepulchre, which is, or the Church of the Resurrection of Christ in Jerusalem, was raised to the ground. Okay. So that's what, that, those are the five centuries of peaceful coexistence that the professors are telling everyone occurred until.

Starting point is 00:48:08 Peaceful scare quotes for everyone out there. until those evil Christians decided to go and do this crazy crusade, which... Totally randomly. Yeah, it came out of nowhere, you know. And even if you look at the sources, when you look at Pope Urban when he's preaching the first crusade, that's exactly what he's talking about. He's telling you the horrific atrocities are committing against Christians, the desecration of churches. You know, they would take youths and, like, disembowl them and tie their intestines and whip them.

Starting point is 00:48:34 I mean, really, like, mind-boggling stuff. Disgusting stuff. That's what the evil crusaders were responsive. to. You don't get that, right? You don't get the context. It's all in a vacuum. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just in case people didn't have the sarcasm detectors. Next sponsor is pre-born. You want to make sure that you are supporting pregnancy centers across the country, saving lives by donating to pre-born. We're in a moment, unfortunately, where lies spread quickly. Truth feels really costly, but for Linda, the cost of silence would have meant the end of her

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Starting point is 00:49:50 When you described the motivation for the Crusades, you talked about agape love, which I thought was so interesting. It would be like very radicalizing to a lot of people out there to hear something like that. You're saying that the Christians who forged the Crusades were not motivated by hate exclusively. of course hatred for what was being done, but by Agape love for their own people, for their women and children. Can you expound upon that? Yeah, sure. So Agape is the Greek, you know, biblical New Testament word for love, which we translate as love. And one of the reasons that I, you know, intentionally picked that word is because I think the English word love is just,

Starting point is 00:50:31 it has too many sentimental connotations. And I think that's what too many modern day Christians think biblical love is, kind of like an emotional. Yeah. And, but Agape, love is, you know, it's like wishing the, wishing, willing the good for the other. Okay. It's like being altruistic and, you know, it's not sentimental, but it's good and it's real, it's practical. So when to early pre-modern Christians, including medieval ones, when they would read about Jesus talking about loving your fellow man, that's what I meant. So if my fellow man, fellow Christians are being killed and mauled and enslaved and raped and their churches are being bombed. I'm not bombed, burned, okay? Bombed is later now.

Starting point is 00:51:12 where's my love? So my love was to be altruistic and sacrifice my own welfare. Okay, a lot of these first crusaders and all the crusaders, again, to just show you how everything is, it's topsy-turvy now, how they teach it. There's this theory they used to go by saying they're all second sons, which means they were, because a primogeniture, the first son gets everything. So the second sons have nothing. So they all decided to be adventurers and go conquer the Holy Land so they can have castles.

Starting point is 00:51:40 Okay. But the most recent research is showing that's the exact opposite. Actually, a lot of these guys gave away their don't, you know, donated their castles and their lands and lost them. Okay. Even someone like King Richard, you know, the whole thing with John and John, you know, taking over England and because he was crusading. So it was a very dangerous thing, not just for your life, but you lost everything. So, but that was muscular love. That was true agape. And that's really what motivated them. And of course, it's amazing now they are so demonized. The Crusaders. The Crusaders, yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:14 And they are just the horrible ones. And, you know, I told you what happened to that German pilgrimage. In 2000, I think, or 1999, because that marked the 1,000-year conquest of Jerusalem by the Crusaders, large German pilgrimage, 1999, recently walked to Jerusalem wearing shirts with the Arabic word. I apologize. Oh, my God. for the crusades. Yes, of course. Wow. Okay, my big question is, in multiple friends, like, what happened? Because on the one hand, they still dominate the Middle East. So obviously,

Starting point is 00:52:53 we didn't get those Christian lands, those Christian cities back. But at the same time, for a very long time, it seemed like Muslims were isolated to the Muslim world. It's only in relatively recent history that they have started infiltrating Europe and the West. And so what happens to allow them to continue to dominate that part of the world, but what also happened to keep them there for so long? Right. Well, and to answer that, we're actually have to go past the Crusades. We can't really jump to now. And that's also very, you know, didactic how we're going to understand it. So after the Crusades, which really around 1,300, they're more or less done. So now does Islam win? No, like I told you, now you have the Turks.

Starting point is 00:53:37 Now it's the rise of the Ottomans. Okay, so these, this is one of the most ruthless Turkish dynasty, okay, which is like they are known, they are the jihadists par excellence, okay? They're the ones who conquer Constantinople in 1453. They invade and conquer the Balkans, okay, Eastern Europe. I mean, how many people, they're still Muslim countries in Europe because they were conquered and forcibly Islamized, okay? And they, you know, in the 16th century, in northern,

Starting point is 00:54:05 Africa was just swarming with pirates, Muslim pirates, Barbary. And they just in that century alone, according to the estimates of very objective historians, at least 1.2 million Europeans were enslaved. You don't hear about that, right? They would go as far as Iceland and as far as Denmark and England. England, you know, it's funny because what's happening today with England, you know, the St. George flag. And it's, and everyone's, so St. George flag is England's oldest flag. And what is it? It's a red cross on white. And the irony is a lot of English people are sort of rallying to it as a, as a sign of, you know, it's a sign of patriotism. And they're being accused, oh, you're, you're Islamophobic, et cetera, et cetera.

Starting point is 00:54:53 And I think there is some truth to that, obviously, not that they're Islamophobic, but they're rallying to it as a sign of, you know, you guys are invaders. and you're doing what you're doing. Yeah. The greater irony that no one knows is that flag was born in the context of war between Muslims and Christians, the St. George flag. So the red and white, the first group to adopt that is the Templars, the Knights of the Temple. And red symbolized blood, martyrdom for Christ, Red Cross. White symbolized purity because they were chased, knights devoted to God, okay?

Starting point is 00:55:25 And anyway, it carried on in the Crusader era, and it got conflated with some. St. George. So St. George was a soldier saint who was martyred around the third, fourth century for not renouncing Christ by pagan Rome. And anyway, so he became sort of a martial saint, especially for the English, and they adopted that flag, okay? And anyway, long story short, with Edward First, another crusader, then it becomes the flag of England. So I'm just telling you all this to show you how, you know, on the one hand, it seems like a sort of an innocuous thing, a flag. But on the other hand, And in and of itself, this flag and the issue it concerns today,

Starting point is 00:56:03 which is migration in Islam, migration in England of Muslims, that's its origin. I mean, it's the classic, you know, the He doesn't know his history will repeat it. Yeah. Okay, you don't even know what that flag meant, and you started bringing in the historic enemy, and lo and behold, they're doing to you what used to happen

Starting point is 00:56:22 back in the day when you had to go and fight it. Okay. But so finishing that narrative, Iceland, you got the slave slavery going on. These Barbary pirates, people don't realize that even the United States, distant United States, its very first war as a nation is with Muslims, thinking on the same exact logic. Okay? The Barbary pirates.

Starting point is 00:56:44 Yeah. The Barbary pirates were basically, and this is, I think this, they started attacking, right after the Revolutionary War, they started attacking American sailor vessels in the Atlantic, enslaving them, treating them horrifically, just like, just like, just, like I was saying with all the other European slaves. And finally, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams met with one of the Barbary ambassadors, Abdul something. And Thomas Jefferson and Adams are like, you know, we did nothing to you.

Starting point is 00:57:12 We want to be friends. Maybe we can engage in trade and business. And the Muslim ambassador, just like ISIS, he said, our prophet says you're the enemy, you're the infidel. Our Quran says we must kill and enslave you wherever we find you, et cetera, et cetera, Okay. America's very first war, again, with this same ancient foe. All right. So, all right. So how come, you know, they were confined and now they're not, what's going on? So finally, you got the colonial era. All right. Now the colonial era, historically, people give a different dates, but let's say 1800, Napoleon goes essentially and conquers Egypt very easily. So what happened in the colonial era, to the people who were colonizing these Europeans, to them, this was a continuation of the crusade. It was this ancient long war with Islam. Okay, Islam had swallowed up so much of formerly Christian lands,

Starting point is 00:58:06 slowly got kicked out. Spain, it took 800 years to get it kicked out in Eastern Europe, similar hundreds of years to get the Turks kicked out. And now the Europeans are finally the strong ones, and now they're going back into the Islamic lands themselves, the Middle East, India, which is in Islamic and even further east. And actually, so here's the funny thing. on the one hand now

Starting point is 00:58:28 so I'll give you a perfect example of how history's distorted think of the history I just told you about this long attack from Islam right that's been going on century after century when my book Sword and Cimitar came out my agent told me there's a you know we felt like this is going to be an issue

Starting point is 00:58:45 because some professor wrote a book that was very similar it was called Crusade and Jihad the thousand year war between like I don't know the global north and the south crusade and jihad and my book is Sort and Simitar 14 centuries of war between Islam and the West. Anyway, I ended up reviewing the book.

Starting point is 00:59:00 I know it's a tome. It's like a thousand pages, right? And it turns out that in this thousand pages, which is dealing with the whole conflict purportedly, 50 pages deal with the first thousand years, from the time of Muhammad to the colonial era, okay, which is that is where all the savage wild wars and jihads were going on.

Starting point is 00:59:20 50 concise pages. And you don't even know any of the stuff that I'm talking. It sounds like nothing happened. Islam spread, you know, through trade across the Middle East. And then he gets to the colonial era. Oh, and now we got like 600, 700 pages of every conceivable sin and crime the European man did to Muslims and others, okay? And a lot of it, of course, is exaggerated.

Starting point is 00:59:47 They didn't even, you know, commit these crimes. But it's, again, you see there's no context. So today, when people talk about the conflict between the Islamic world and, the West, what they'll do is they won't tell you anything that preceded the Crusades, like I told you, they'll start with the Crusades. And the Crusaders were just these evil guys who went and wanted to kill Muslims. And then they'll go to the colonial era, which again, these crazy Europeans went there for no reason.

Starting point is 01:00:10 Again, one of the main reasons for the colonial powers invade North Africa was to neutralize Barbary, the slave trade system. In fact, it was they who actually abolished slavery to Europeans. I think the English, especially spearheaded it. So these are, so because, though, we. have this big lacuna in history and all we know is that negative stuff that the West did with no everything's in a vacuum that's why Islam is a problem today because now generations of Westerners have been taught how your ancestors are the evil ones the crusaders and the colonizers and

Starting point is 01:00:43 the colonizers the Muslims have always been the good tolerant one watch any historic movie okay that deals with the Crusades I mean you know what I'm talking about every crusader is just some bumbling idiots screaming, Deus Wolt, and like, and he's a hypocrite. And the more he holds a cross, the more evil he really is. And the Muslims, this wise, you know, paragon of virtue and patience. Just like Native Americans. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:09 The noble savage myth, right? Generations of all that and academia and has just convinced so many Westerners that it's my job to become a doormat. If I want to be a good Christian, I need to make up for the sins of my forefathers, which is why, as I was telling you, those German, that German pilgrimage saying, I'm sorry in Arabic. Okay, that's the mentality. Yeah. And that mentality, one of the things that it's doing is, well, one of the things we're going to do is bring Muslims to live with us and show them how great we are and how we're going to host them and give them all the rights they can ever imagine.

Starting point is 01:01:44 And yet, meanwhile, Muslims are still, you know, to their credit, they haven't changed. It's the West that's changed. That's become stupider, to be put it bluntly. And Christians. Because you talk about that muscular Christianity. Well, yeah, and that's, so that really is the big shift, I think. In many ways, I think, I think Christianity has been subverted intentionally. You know, as with all things, I was telling you earlier how, you know, good lies always have a half-truth to them.

Starting point is 01:02:11 And of course, Christianity is about love and forgiveness and tolerance, okay? But it seems to be that people or elements that do not like Christianity have convinced Christians that that is, Christianity. You want to be a good Christian. You're a dormant. Okay. And you don't judge. You always turn your cheek. You never fight back. You never fight back. You never say anything is wrong. Exactly. That's become a good Christian. Well, that is not what a good Christian was in the medieval era or even in the pre-modern era. Okay. They fought against evil. They believed in what was right and trying to enforce what was right. Okay. So that's why they would never do what the modern day watered down Christian is doing. And I also think a lot of Christians are making a virtue out of a vice because

Starting point is 01:02:56 it's easier to be that kind of a Christian. It's easier to be non-confrontational and to just let everything happen and never open your mouth. Yeah. And so the truth is, a lot of the Christians who do this is just they're really cowards. And they don't want to stand up for what's right. And then they pat themselves in the back saying, oh, I'm being a good Christian because Jesus told me to be a dormant. Yeah. And that would have been so unintelligible to anything. any Christian denomination, Catholic Orthodox or Protestant historically. Yeah. So.

Starting point is 01:03:25 I do think Christians have forgotten our responsibility to restrain evil and to push back against evil for the sake of the vulnerable. I mean, you talk about those who forged the Crusades caring for the vulnerable women, children, people who couldn't defend themselves. I mean, it's the same thing with a lot of issues today. We push back against those pushing evil because of the people over here who are being affected by those evil policies or actions. or whatever. I think the hard thing is that Christians want to know, like, on an everyday basis,

Starting point is 01:03:55 is what does that muscular Christianity look like? Because at the end of the day, I've got way more Muslims in my neighborhood. I've got a mosque really close to my house that wasn't there 10 years ago. And that's just reality. And I'm just a mom. And so I think a lot of people don't know what to do. So they flee to, like, the country hoping that, like, you know, it doesn't follow them there. and they just don't know. They see it's a problem, but they don't know what to do. So what is your take on that? Well, my take on that is the real problem, and believe it or not,

Starting point is 01:04:27 I don't think the problem right now is even Islam, because Islam is inherently weak in the modern era. Islam's only a problem when you let it be a problem. Okay, so if you look at Europe, for example, it's a huge problem in various countries, right? The UK and France and Spain, Italy, most of Western Europe. meanwhile in Hungary and Poland that there's not a problem and why is that are they going to war no they just said no thanks okay so that is so that my point is it's an easily fixed problem which goes

Starting point is 01:04:56 back to what you were saying you know because they were confined to their own realm you know they're not going to hurt you if they're there right so I think the it's important to keep in mind and that's why people get upset one time there you know a lot of English people are saying Muslims are invading England sorry they're not they're being well-comed There's a big difference. Okay, invasion is when you're resisting and fighting. Yeah, that's true. Okay, but when they're being brought in and treated like kings, that's not an invasion. So my point is, if you want to, before you can address a problem, you have to locate the source. And it's actually a mistake to think the source is the Muslims. Okay, the source is the people enabling and

Starting point is 01:05:35 allowing this to happen. I often give the analogy of, you know, if I go to a zoo and there's a, you know, enclosure of zebras. And then I put a line. And then the line, lo and behold, kills the zebras. Who's really at fault? Me or the lion? I think it's me. The lion's doing what the lion's going to do.

Starting point is 01:05:54 The Muslim's going to do what the Muslim's going to do. But it's the person who's insisting on bringing them in and putting them in and forcing you to suppress your culture and your heritage and everything about your life so you can accommodate them. That's the problem. So I think, you know, Islam is an inherent issue that can be, it's very finite and can be dealt with, especially if you don't live in the Islamic world. If you're a Christian or a non-Muslim living under Islam, that's a different story. But in America, for example, or even Europe, you are creating your own problem by inviting it in.

Starting point is 01:06:28 Okay. So it's actually an easily fixed problem. But it goes back to what you're saying, this whole, you know, and, you know, what's happening in the West where it's not just that. they're bringing them in is they also don't even have the sort of moral fiber to respond anymore because it's been stripped away because to be a Christian, like I said, the chief virtue is you're a doormat. You don't do anything. You don't argue. You don't speak up. Okay, this would have been so bizarre for other Christians. That would have been seen as evil, actually, because you're, you're an accomplice. Okay. I mean, is that how Jesus behaved? We forget, Jesus made a whip of cords and

Starting point is 01:07:05 engaged in violence and hurled tables. Okay. So again, I'm not as a saying Jesus is violent, but there's a time for everything. Right. There's a time for resistance. There's a time for forgiveness. There's a time for, and it seems that everything has been stripped and it's just you're a dormant. I saw, I often mentioned this, the Super Bowl, like maybe two years ago.

Starting point is 01:07:27 And, you know, to have a commercial in the Super Bowl is like a big thing. Everyone's watching it. And this commercial just pops up and it's just scenes, okay, of people sitting, getting their feet washed, right? And then at the very end, it says, Jesus didn't preach hate. He washed feet. He gets us. Yeah, yeah, one of those, right?

Starting point is 01:07:47 And then, but there was something interesting. It wasn't just random people watching random people's feet. Everyone on their hands and knees was like a white woman or white man who looks traditional, conservative, maybe Christian. And everyone getting their foot washed was a trans thing person, a Muslim man, a Muslim woman in a hijab, an illegal migrant apparently because it's like at the border. All right. So that is the message they want Christians to embrace.

Starting point is 01:08:13 If you want to be a Christian, then your whole job is to just enable anything I want. Yeah, serve me. Okay. And it's just sad because I think a lot of Christians believe that's the case. Last sponsor for the day is Constitution Wealth. Do you know whether you are unknowingly funding companies that oppose your biblical values with every investment you make? Do you know if you're hard-to-earned dollars for supporting businesses that actively work against the Christian principles that you hold dear. Your investments should work as hard as you do and align with what you believe in.

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Starting point is 01:09:24 and fees. All investing involves risk, including the risk of loss. This is a paid endorsement. My opinions are my own. The whole blueprint, you know, of Islam is kind of like, it's catered to, it's like, you know, think of a little boy wants to be a pirate and you, you know, you can go have fun, go on an adventure. kill, raid, do whatever you want. That's Islam, okay?

Starting point is 01:09:50 And that's when you look at these guys, ISIS, and that's how they live. That's what they see themselves as. You know, we're these heroes, and we're on an adventure, we're going to have fun, and then we're going to go to heaven when we die. So, yeah, in a way, it is kind of not very mature,

Starting point is 01:10:03 but you can also see why it's appealing to certain demographics. Like Andrew Tate. Yeah, yeah. I think, I don't know a whole lot about it. I mean, I know what his thing is, but, you know, we can talk a little. little bit about how the appeal of Islam and this sort of, you know, masculine Islam. And I think what's really going on is, again, it's not, it's not really Islam's fault in this case. It's just

Starting point is 01:10:30 that we or people in the West have been put in such a position where we have no more role models for ourselves, okay, because the Christians are not role models unless you, you understand who they were. So as I talk about the real Christians in one of my book, Defenders of the West, and it talks about how those kings would actually stand up and fight against Islam, et cetera, et cetera. But if you're a modern day Christian or just a Western person, what is our role model supposed to be as a man, for example?

Starting point is 01:10:55 There's just nothing there. And so when I see Westerners kind of gravitating towards, let's say, Islamic masculinity, it's because we literally have nothing here. So it kind of makes sense, all right? I'll think I'll gravitate towards the Islamic thing before I'll want to go sit and hang out with a man in drag.

Starting point is 01:11:15 you know what I mean? If that's the best that the West can come up with, that's our alternative. So I think it's not that Islam is inherently attractive. No pre-modern Christian would have found any of that, you know, but that's because they had their own masculine form of faith and masculine heritage. But now that the West has been so stripped of all that, when they see Muslims living that way, it's kind of like, wow, I can, that's pretty cool, right? It's powerful.

Starting point is 01:11:42 Yeah, because, but that's because we have absolutely, as a man, you're completely emasculated here. Okay, so there's no, there's, it's, it's, in other words, once again, it's what the West is doing, okay, is what's making Islam look appealing. Just like it's what the West is doing that's making Islam a problem and a threat in Europe because they're bringing them in. And again, the West is emasculating men and it's just, you know, the sexual perversion and this like weird gender issues that are going on. It's really an appealing and despicable. So it makes sense for a Western man to look anywhere else and find inspiration there because there's literally nothing here. And I wish it was just there's nothing.

Starting point is 01:12:25 There's just the exact opposite. There's just disgusting stuff. Yeah. I've heard stories from Christians who have spent time in the Middle East, Christians who know the Muslim world well. And they talk about conversions of Muslims to Christianity. Some say that this is happening at a greater rate than it was before. do you think that that is something that is happening? Is that a reason for us to be hopeful? No, that's definitely a thing that's happening. And a lot of Muslims complain about it,

Starting point is 01:12:54 you know, like the serious radical Muslims. I've seen them. I watch a lot of Arabic programming. And, you know, I've seen where sheikhs and Muslims get up and complain and say millions of Muslims are leaving the faith for Christianity because of usually Arabic-speaking, you know, apologists and polemists who talk about Islam and Christianity. I watch their shows too, very interesting, because they expose Muhammad. The problem is a lot of Muslims don't know the truth of their own religion.

Starting point is 01:13:19 Yeah. You know, they really don't. A lot of them do think it's moderate. A lot of them do think Muhammad was a great guy, okay? Because they just, it's there, it's hidden from them. A lot of the clerics and the sheikhs are smart. They only introduce it sort of when the time is right.

Starting point is 01:13:33 But of course, a lot of them do know what it is. But the conversion and an apostasy out of Islam, that's definitely a real thing. And they all have very interesting, similar stories, which makes it kind of a very interesting thing is the phenomena that every Muslim that converts to Christianity seems to talk about. And this is the Jesus and dreams talking to them. And this is not localized. It's everywhere. So you're Africans, African Muslims who convert, Arabs, Iranians, you know, all throughout, it's kind of Indonesians. So there's

Starting point is 01:14:07 certainly something happening to that effect. And a lot of Muslims, like I said, that's why why a lot of these countries are very restrictive towards Christian in Iran. You know, if you're preaching Christianity, you're immediately seen as an agent of Israel or America or both. Okay, because so they really restrict it and they arrest them and they bust home churches because there is. And it's interesting because to Muslims, it's the opposite of what's happening to us. They don't, they're sick of Islam because of what it really is and they live the unadulterated form. And then when they're introduced to real Christianity, okay, it's of course appealing. And that's something that they start kind of wanting to gravitate towards.

Starting point is 01:14:50 Yeah. I can imagine maybe at some point that they start to detect the pattern that Islam is also, it seems, anti-civilization. Most majority Muslim countries aren't good countries to live in. They're impoverished. They're restrictive. And so, I mean, it seems that at some point they would kind of see the correlation. Wait, why do I want to leave the country that is dominating?

Starting point is 01:15:12 by the beliefs I had. Any of us Christians would love to live in a country that is dominated by the beliefs that we have. And they have that. In spades, they can go to so many places and have what we can't have, and yet their countries are terrible. And their countries are terrible

Starting point is 01:15:25 because historically, the economy of the Islamic world was based on plunder. The Ottomans, for example, their entire economy was based on conquering and enslaving and selling slaves and appropriating their possessions and taking their land.

Starting point is 01:15:40 They weren't exactly science, Despite what you may hear, okay. That is what we hear. I know. They invented math and science. No, well, I mean, there's elements of... Contributions, for sure. There's contributions.

Starting point is 01:15:51 And oftentimes it's not Muslims. It's Christians and Jews who were living under Islam, okay, and who maybe had converted a week earlier, so they don't get killed. So they were continuing the sort of thing that they had always been doing. But to just to give you, and again, to just show you how topsy-turvy, everything is taught. So I was talking about the colonial era, which is always so, which is always seen as the white man's sin, right? What he did.

Starting point is 01:16:16 Believe it or not, that was the best time for the people living in the Middle East, in India, and in Africa. They admit it. Yeah. This was the best time. They were at a high level of civilization and economy and health and nutrition was much, much better. Okay.

Starting point is 01:16:34 And yet this is, but oh, the evil white man. And if you compare and contrast that with, areas where Muslims went and colonized. So for example, in Spain, because that was a microcosm of jihad and crusade, because Muslims conquered it in the 8th century, and they didn't get kicked out to like the 16th or 17th. And so the middle, the Christians were mostly in the north and the Muslims were in the south during these wars. The middle zone is like still, it's still infertile and completely devastated from nonstop warfare and constant raids that the Muslims were obligated as part of,

Starting point is 01:17:11 it's a jihad doctrine to go raiding every two years and kill as many Christians. So, on the one hand, okay, Islam has contributed nothing but death and destruction and conquest and slavery. And it's presented as this wonderful, tolerant religion. And Christian Europe and the West has, it's not perfect, obviously,

Starting point is 01:17:29 but it's actually brought science and health and nutrition and literacy, and it is presented as the great evil one. And it's hard for me to start to, actually believe that this topsy-turvy sort of thing is just is not by design and it's organic. I mean, this is definitely by design and it's pretty diabolical. It is very diabolical to our peril. You have a new book coming out in November.

Starting point is 01:17:53 Tell us what the title is and where people can pre-order it. Sure. The title is The Two Swords of Christ, which actually speaks very much to what we're talking about. And the subtitle is Five Centuries of War between Islam and the Warrior Monks of Christendom, the knights of the temple and the hospital. And this is a perfect example, this book. So it's about the templars and the hospitlers, who, again, if you listen to like conspiratorial history,

Starting point is 01:18:19 they're not what they seem. But what these guys were, so let's talk about the hospitlers, for example. These were the guy, what these men were during the Holy Wars, they were committed to helping pilgrims who were being killed and attacked by Muslims and giving them medical aid, food, cleaning them, bathing them, giving them their beds, okay? It was a hospice. And it was the origin of the hospital.

Starting point is 01:18:44 But before long, they realized that, you know, you know, why don't we, why wait until Christian pilgrims are attacked and almost killed? Why don't we nip it in the butt and protect them? So they took up arms. So these men who were, you would think, the most passive and they just care about health and helping you out became warriors. Because that was, again, there was nothing wrong with that because we're defending against evil aggressors, right? So, and the Templars is the same thing. They were, you know, again,

Starting point is 01:19:13 these were holy monks, there were monks, okay, committed to God, but they saw no problem and no contradiction in taking up the sword. And the reason I call the two swords of Christ is it goes back to the famous verse, I think in Luke, where Jesus says, you know, whoever, if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. And the disciples say, Lord, here's two swords. And he says, that's enough. Okay. Now, today, Here's again, perfect example of modern Christian nonsense. They've allegorized this verse into nothingness. It means nothing.

Starting point is 01:19:45 What does it mean? It's not a sword, they'll tell you. But to pre-modern and definitely medieval Christians, what it meant is there's two main evils that we can and should fight. One is spiritual forces, and that's a spiritual sword. And one is human evil forces, and that's a secular sword. Okay? And that is enough, right?

Starting point is 01:20:04 Because those are the two main enemies that you should fight. resist. And you know, people forget again that Jesus, a lot of it is implied. So, for example, what does Jesus do when people, when he performs a miracle on someone? The first thing he tells him is what, go repent, right? And when it came to the centurion, Roman centurion, he didn't tell him, go repent and quit the army because you're responsible for the killing of probably thousands of people as a centurion commander. He didn't say that at all. So why? Same thing when soldiers went to John the Baptist, said, what must we do to be saved? He didn't tell them quit the army. He said, be content with your wages. Okay, so for, again, what I'm trying to say is that for a lot

Starting point is 01:20:46 of pre-modern Christians, the issue of, you know, violence for a just cause was not open to the debate. There was nothing contradictory about that and being a Christian. So anyway, that's what the book is about the Two Swords of Christ. And it's also a little bit of a pun because I ended up writing about two guys, the Templars and the Hospitlers, who because they really took, it to heart that it was important to fight and defend their fellow men, they became the Two Swords of Christ. Yeah. Wow. This is so fascinating. I could talk to you for hours more, but I really encourage people to not only pre-order the Two Swords of Christ, but go out and get his other books, too. This has sparked so much interesting conversation and given us so much knowledge in our home,

Starting point is 01:21:28 my husband and I have been just learning so much from you. So thank you for dedicating so many years to this and for talking to us today. Thanks very much, Ellie. I'm very happy to hear all that.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1255 | Jihad vs. Jesus: Islam’s Plan to Conquer Christian America | Raymond Ibrahim

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