Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 126 | Biblical Marriage

Episode Date: June 17, 2019

What does the Bible really say about homosexuality and marriage, and what does it mean? 

Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. As you guys know, this starts the last week of my recording episodes for Relatable until you get the pre-recorded episodes that I worked on in May for the next eight or so weeks. And I'm really excited for you to listen to those episodes. They're evergreen, but extremely relevant topics that we are going to have to contend with, not just with our faith since we're talking about, things like women in the church and predestination, Calvinism, things like that. But we're also talking about things that you are going to be hearing about in 2020 or the election of 2020. So we're talking about Medicare for all and a lot of the issues that you're

going to hear about in the debate. So they're very important and I hope very informative episodes, just giving you what I know in what I've researched. So this is going to be my last week probably, probably of recording, recording episodes about things that are going on right now. now, like I said on Friday, I could pop in anytime over the next few weeks and be like, okay, guys, I just had to record a new episode because I have to talk about this thing that just happened. But the hope is that you will get all the pre-recorded episodes. And of course, I would love for you guys to share them as you see fit and for you to continue to email me and message me to hear about your thoughts. So today we're going to talk about a topic that is extremely

contentious, which is what the Bible says about marriage, how the Bible defines proper marriage relationships and defines proper sexual relationships, particularly in reference to homosexuality. So this is a topic that I don't want to talk about. I don't want to talk about it. I really don't because it's so taboo. It's something that I can get in trouble for talking about. It's something that even within the Christian community is a difficult thing to talk about and something that most people simply avoid. I just hope that you will understand. I just hope that you will I hope that you'll understand that my heart behind this episode is not one at all of hate for my fellow man. Just the opposite. This is about a love for my fellow man and a love for the word of God.

All people, all people, no matter their gender identity or sexual orientation are made in the image of God. They are image bears. They are valuable in the eyes of God. And apart from Christ, everyone, apart from Christ, everyone is just as dead in their sin as anyone else. We are all equally in need of a Savior. We are all equally in need of reconciliation to God. We are called to love all people, to be hospitable, to be generous, to see people with compassion and empathy. So know that that is the perspective that I am coming from.

I also want to say that if you are in the LGBTQ community and that you, if you have been truly mistreated, If you have been spat upon, if you have been talked down to, if you have been truly hated because of your sexual orientation in the name of Christ, I want you to know that that's not the heart of Christianity, that that is not a reflection of Jesus. If someone has spoken to you, as if you are less valuable than they are, know that that is not Christianity. I am sorry that that happened to you. I am. I have no doubt that there are people out there who call themselves Christians who mistreat people because they erroneously. think that they are better than them. And I'm telling you that is not the heart of Jesus and that's certainly not where I'm coming from today. Now, though you will likely disagree with this episode, if you are in this particular community or if you're on the other side of the political or cultural

or theological aisle, I just want you to know that that is not, that is not what is happening here. I am not looking to talk down to anyone. But what I also want you to realize is that sexuality does not define us. It is not our identity. That means that I can disagree with someone and I can still love them as a person. That means I hope that you who may disagree with me, that you can understand that I don't hate you, that I love you and I love God's word. No matter how much current culture says that in order to love someone, I have to agree with everything they do. I wholeheartedly reject that definition of love. I reject that definition of love. I love. I love. I love. I love. I love. of you and I know that you are made in the image of God.

And I love God and I want to obey and know his will. And that is what this episode is about. And so what I would ask is that if you are someone who disagrees with this, who is going to disagree with this, I guess you don't know my position yet, but you've probably already picked up on it. If you are someone who disagrees with this, what I would ask is that, well, first of all,

I'm not offended by you being offended. I'm not angry at you being angry. I'm totally fine with that. I understand that. But before, before you automatically and immediately call me a hateful bigot, what I would ask is that you contend with what I have to say in a thoughtful way. And if you are a Christian who would like to refute what I say, I expect you to do so with the word of God and with scripture, not just from your own opinions. And if you are non-Christian who would like to refute this, well, that's perfectly fine. I don't really, I don't really expect us to

agree on this because we don't expect or we don't agree on the authority of scripture. So if you are not a Christian and you don't agree with me on this, that's perfectly fine. But if you are, then I expect us to have a theological conversation about this, a conversation that is based on scripture and not just a conversation that is based on either of our opinions because I really don't care about my opinion on this. I don't really care about anyone's opinion on this. I care about what the word of God says. And I know this is kind of like a long introduction, but it all matters. For Christians, I totally understand if you're out there and you're like, this is just a really hard subject for me. Like, I totally understand why this is hard. This is a hard subject for me. And for a lot of us,

because we love so many people who are in this community. For a good reason, we don't want to hurt them. Like, we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. We don't want to make anyone feel ostracized. We don't want to be seen as bigots ourselves, which I actually think is usually the bigger reason why we don't want to talk about this. I know so many wonderful people in this community who are some of the kindest people I know. And so I understand this is a hard topic because you are talking about people that you love.

It would be so much easier. It would be so much easier if the Bible were silent on this. Like if we didn't have anything to say on this, if the Bible weren't clear on this and we could interpret the Bible to mean something other than what it says, then I would have found that a long time ago. trust me, if there were a more popular stance that I could take and still align with the Bible, I would take it. But the fact of the matter is, is we're going to see today and talk about today,

there's just not. So my hope is to offer clarity on what the word of God says and why it matters. It is not to a lot of people say, well, this is just a divisive topic. Well, the Bible talks about it. And if it's a divisive topic and the Bible talks about it, that means that it's worth us talking about too. But my goal is not to cause division. It's not to cause confusion. It's to go into the Word of God and to be thoughtful about what he actually says and realize that I'm a finite human being that God is infinite. And therefore, he is worth listening to. And he is worth submitting to even on something as taboo and as unpopular to talk about is this.

This is something that all Christians should desire is to know God's. will and to understand what that will is. I have talked about this before. I've talked about it in an episode called United Methodist Church. I answered a question on the podcast about Lauren Daigle's comments on homosexuality. I interviewed a man named Christopher Yuan who wrote a book called Holy Sexuality in which he talks about this from his own perspective. I sat down with Dave Rubin, who also happens to be gay, and I talked to him about this. And he was kind enough. to give me a platform to talk about what the Bible says about marriage and all of that is public. You can go listen to that or watch those things. So that is what we are going to do

today. We're going to speak to the subject from a biblical perspective. And I think it might be, maybe not, it might be a biblical perspective that you haven't heard before. Not that I'm trying to add nuance to the conversation or anything, because that's not my job as someone who is reading the Bible. It is to just look at this from a deep gospel-centered perspective. from a holistic perspective based on the Word of God. I have given a lot of thought to this issue. I've studied this issue. I have researched this as much as I possibly can because we hear about this in the news all

the time. We hear about it on social media and in culture. And if there's one thing that Christians are called a bigot for, it is believing the word of God when it comes to his definition of marriage. And so it's important for us to have an answer to these things. It's important for us to be able to point to the Word of God and say, well, here's what it says and I'm simply submitting to his will in this that he makes very clear, I think, in the Bible. I'm not really interested in people's opinions on this. I'm not interested

in my opinion on this. I am not interested in New Age interpretations of God's word. I am interested in what God's word actually says and what according to the text, according to the context, it actually means. Not what it means for me, but what it actually means. That means, as we covered in our reading the Bible episode that I encourage you to listen to if you haven't, that we don't throw out verses that we don't like, but we move more deeply into them, making sense of them in relation to the whole of scripture. Remember, if there is something about God's word that we don't like, the problem is us, not God's word.

If there is something about God's word that we do not like, the problem is always, in unconditionally us and not God in His Word. That is the proper posture to take before Scripture. scripture. So there are a couple reasons that we're talking about this right now. One, it is Pride Month. And because of that, many of you have asked me to address this particular subject. Two, there's an article circulating claiming that the Bible doesn't really have anything to say about homosexuality, that the word homosexuality was added much later and that really these verses are talking about pedophilia, prostitution, or rape. It's not talking about a loving, committed relationship between two people of the same

sex. That's actually not a new argument at all that has been propagated many, many times from those who consider themselves probably more theologically liberal. There are a few ways that those who call themselves, they would call themselves LGBTQ affirming Christians. There are a few ways that they defend the rightness of homosexuality with the Bible. So they say that, okay, the few verses that talk about this in the Old Testament and the New Testament are talking about promiscuity. They're talking about idol worship, they're talking about rape, et cetera. They're not talking about this committed relationship, this monogamous relationship between two people of the same sex. So they look at the context and they say, okay, that's clearly what scripture means. And it would be silly. They would

say to apply this to gay relationships today where two people are exclusive, where they're faithful, where they're following God in every other way. Another thing they typically say is, well, okay, whatever, even if we were to take these verses literally, they're just a few verses. God talks a lot more about other things. He talks a lot more about helping the poor. He talks a lot more about loving people. We're making way too big of a deal about this. And conservative evangelicals, they would say, are using out-of-context passages to justify their bigotry, to express hates toward people that they don't understand. And then some other people say, well, Jesus didn't talk about it. And so it must not be that big of a deal. So let me say that these are all understandable. These are all understandable approaches

to the issue of homosexuality in the Bible if, if your question when you are reading the Bible is, what can I get away with? So I totally understand this mindset. If your posture, if your question when you are reading the Bible is, what can I get away with? If you are looking for ways to justify what you want,

you will find it. If you are looking for ways to affirm what you already believe, you will find them. If you are looking for ways to validate what you feel, then you will find that. It would be very easy to throw out passages or to look for a way to interpret passages so that we can still be agreed with if our question when we are reading scripture is, what can I get away with? But that should not, not in any subject, I don't care what it is, be our question when reading scripture. We're all guilty of doing this, but this is

not the correct stance to have. The correct posture before the Word of God and in all of life, before God should be that of Jesus in the Garden of Gassimony. Not my will, but your will. So God, help me to know your will. Give me your wisdom. Help me love what you love. Help me see what you see. Not what can I get away with here. But God, make me more like you. That means make me to know your will. So there are a few verses about homosexuality in the Bible. Genesis obviously talks about Sodom and Gomorrah, which included the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah, which included homosexuality, Leviticus, 2013 talks about this. Romans 126 through 27 talks about exchanging natural relations for unnatural ones. 1 Corinthians 6.9 talks about homosexuality, as does 1 Timothy 110. So this is in

the Old Testament and the New Testament. Now, there is actually no evidence. There's no evidence that the original Hebrew and Greek, that they're talking about anything other than homosexuality. relationships. The context doesn't indicate that. Now, yes, in this time, there probably weren't a whole lot of monogamous gay relationships as there are now. That is true, but that does not negate what the Bible has to say about this. So I would encourage you, as a Christian, though, to not go back and forth on that point. Like if you were discussing this with someone or you're debating this with someone, I would say don't go back and forth on that point, what the verses actually mean, what the historical context is what the original language says and whether or not it reflects homosexual relationships

today, I would not encourage you to do that. I would say that that is getting down in the weeds and it's still not looking at the entire picture of what the Bible says about marriage and it's going back to that one question that asks, what can I get away with rather than am I doing God's will and do I understand God's heart? The reality is even if we threw out all of those even if we found a way to say no, that's not really what these verses mean. They're not talking about a committed LGBT relationships. We are still left with this. We're still left with how God specifically designed and defines marriage. So we're still left with that, which the Bible, again, is clear about. So this is not just about what God says is not right, but also what God says is right. And we see in

scripture that God's specific design for marriage is not just of physical significance, but also of spiritual significance. You've probably heard before that the Bible starts with a wedding, and it also ends with a wedding. It starts with the marriage of Adam and even Genesis, and it ends with the marriage of Christ and his bride, the church in Revelation. This is not a mistake. This is deliberate, and it points to the fact that marriage, that earthly marriage reflects a spiritual reality. It is incredibly significant. Earthly marriage reflects a spiritual reality. We see this truth in God's word about marriage, and we're going to dig a little bit more into this, that God's definition of marriage is rooted in creation. It is reiterated in the New Testament,

and it's reflected in Christ's relationship with the church. So God's definition of marriage is rooted in creation. It's reiterated in the New Testament, and it's reflected in Christ's relationship with the church. Y'all know that I love alliteration, so I really tried hard to come up with this. So first, let's look at how it is rooted in creation. So Genesis 218 through 25 says this. Then the Lord God said, it is not good that man should be alone. I will make him a helper fit for him. Now out of the ground, the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all livestock into the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field.

But for Adam, there was not found to help or fit for him. So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man. And while he slept, he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man, he made into a woman and brought her to the man. Then the man said, this at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman because she was taken out of man. Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife and they shall become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

So in Genesis, we see God's original intent for marriage, not just that he created a man and a woman to be together, but he also gave them different roles right away. So immediately, there is a distinct. not just in sex, but also, wait for it, controversial in gender roles. So Adam was given the responsibility to name the animals and to steward the earth, but he needed a helper. He needed someone to come alongside him. Adam was not sufficient by himself. He was incomplete. He had all the company of vegetation, of beasts of the field, and yet he still needed something. He needed someone. He needed someone not just to be like him, not just to be his companion, but to compensate. But to

compliment him. So woman was made different for man in both biology and in role so the two could compliment one another in the way that God intended. Adam didn't just need a friend. He didn't just need someone to be there and to spend time with him. He needed a wife. He needed a woman. So right away, we see not just a physical distinction, but a role distinction between the two that shows God's intention for marriage. The wife is to come alongside and to be a helper to her husband, and it is for this reason God's word says that a man leaves his original family and he starts a new family with his wife becoming one with her. So the creation of man and woman and the marriage between them is the most stunning part. It's the most stunning part of the creation account. Like this is where it reaches its height

that we see, wow, God really loves those who are made in his image. And it would be silly for us to look at this account and to say, well, that was just an accident. That's totally arbitrary, especially, especially since it is reiterated so clearly in the New Testament. So Ephesians 522 through 25 says, Wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is head of the church, his body, it is himself, its Savior.

Now as church, as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. So here we see again that marriage is defined as between a wife and a husband and that it wasn't just because of a cultural context. It wasn't just some flippant thing that they said a husband and a wife. It wasn't just because they said, okay, well, all we know at this point is heterosexual relationships.

But this passage actually tells us why it's between a wife and a husband, because these roles are reflective of a spiritual reality between Christ and the church. So a wife is to submit to her husband as she submits to the Lord. in the same way that the church submits to Christ. And the husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the church. Christ loves the church so much that he gave himself up for her. He gave his life up for her, meaning a husband is called to love his wife so much that he is willing to give his entire life for her.

That is radical, unconditional, sacrificial love that husbands are called to. And it is meant to be reflective of the same kind of radical, sacrificial, selfless love that Christ showed the church by dying for her and sanctifying her. And this passage that we read in Ephesians, it actually roots itself in creation. Ephesians 528 through 33 says this in the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself, for no one ever hated his own flesh but nourishes it and cherishes it. Just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. Therefore, a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife,

and the two shall become one flesh. This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ in the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. So the creation account that we read in Genesis, that therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh, even in Genesis, that was a reflection of the gospel. That was a reflection of Christ in the church

that is then reiterated in the New Testament by saying wives are supposed to submit to their husbands as to the Lord and husbands are supposed to love their wives as Christ loved the church. So this passage is the perfect encapsulation of what we establish for why God's definition of marriage matters, why it is so specific, why it is so significant, because God's definition of marriage rooted in creation. It is reiterated in the New Testament and is reflected in Christ's relationship with the church. God made wives and husbands physically complimentary, but much more importantly, he made them spiritually complimentary to be an earthly metaphor for the one miraculous and eternal marriage between Christ and his church. The submission of the wife and the sacrifice of the husband

reflects a far greater reality than what we see here on earth. So far be it from us to mess with that, far be it from us to say, no, we're going to redefine this as we see fit. Yes, if you see marriage, if you see marriage as only a physical bond, then it would be easy to redefine it however we want to. But that's not possible for the Christian. We don't get to do that. God's already defined marriage. He tells us why he did so in his explanation of, Christ in the church. That was not arbitrary. That was not cultural. That was not a relative. This was meant to reflect something that is eternal. These terms that we see in scripture from creation to revelation between a bride and a bridegroom are not gender neutral. They're not

gender fluid. They are intentional because men and women are not only physically different, but also their physical differences represent a spiritual reality. So according to God, God, marriage is so much more. It is so much more than what the world says it is. The world sees marriage is something that two people do just because they want to when they're in love, when they feel like it. And if one day they don't want to anymore and they're not in love, well, they don't really need to be married. But God says, no, that's not what marriage is. God says marriages I've defined it is both a physical and a spiritual bond of unity that should not be broken. And this speaks to a lot more than gay marriage. This also speaks to adultery.

This speaks to all of the ways that people try to redefine marriage outside of what God says it is. And I know that this is contentious. So let me say what I'm about to say and then I'll explain it because I don't want it to come across as harsh. But the reason why God says in the Bible that he hates divorce is not because he hates people who get divorces. That's not true. He doesn't. He hates divorce because he loves marriage. Now, in Matthew 19, Jesus gives reason.

There are reasons that divorce is necessary, according to the Bible. And Jesus says there are reasons sometimes that divorce is necessary, but God doesn't like it. It breaks his heart because he intended marriage so specifically, so purposely, to be a reflection of a spiritual and gospel-centered reality. Marriage is sacred. Marriage is a picture of God's plan of redemption. And it is not arbitrarily designed so that you, and I can change it as culture compels us or as feelings demand. Now, how are we to approach this subject or how are we to think about this or how are we to approach those or treat those who are

a part of the LGBT community? We are, it's simple, it's pretty simple. We are to be hospitable. We are to be kind. We are to be generous. We are to be loving. We are to be self-sacrificial. For those who are not Christians, we remember that it is not their sexual. that we are primarily concerned with. It is their spirituality. Every person apart from Christ we address in the beginning is dead in their sin. Every single person. No one is more dead than someone else. Every single person apart from Christ is dead in their sin, period. So that means no matter what your sin is before Christ, what you are repenting from when you come to Christ, when God takes you from dead to alive in Christ, what you're repenting from first is unbelief,

not sexuality, unbelief. So when Christ raises someone from death to life, he changes them. He sanctifies them. He may not remove every struggle forever, but he calls them to a new life in which self-denial becomes the rule rather than the exception. That is true for every single one of us. Therefore, the conversations that we have with them should not be centered on their relationships with men or with women, but their relationship with Christ. Now, for those who identify as Christians, if we have a relationship with them, of course we are called to speak truth. We're called to share the gospel. We're called to talk about what the Bible says. I don't think that that means that you Instagram, DM, every single person who falls into this category and you tell them why they're wrong. I don't think that's the most effective thing to do. But for those in your life, yes, you have an obligation to speak truth. First Corinthians 5 says a really difficult reality that those within the local church is, that's the context, but it really kind of speaks to in general that you're not supposed to associate with anyone who calls themselves as a Christian and engages in the kind of immorality that it lists, which is really tough.

Like, that's a really tough verse to swallow, I think. But that means we still, we speak with kindness and with gentleness. We speak truth. And if we truly are going to obey the command to love our neighbor as ourself, that means that we have to speak truth. So if we believe that God is good and we believe that the Bible is His Word, then loving someone means showing them the goodness of God, which is revealed in Scripture.

If we believe that Jesus is better than this world, that means that we speak truth. If we believe that God's way is better than our way, that means we speak truth. That is our responsibility as Christians. And look, I understand that this is not popular. I understand that this is contentious. Maybe some of you didn't want to hear this today, but maybe some of you were looking for a way to approach this in all things. No matter what the cultural subject is, no matter how unpopular it is, our authority is the

word of God. when we look at something in scripture and we're uncomfortable with it, our question should be, what is wrong with me? What's wrong with my heart? Why do I want to push back against this? Why don't I want to submit to this particular passage or this particular command? And we have to ask God to humble us. And we have to ask God to allow us the wisdom to be able to submit to his word. This is never going to be popular. This is never going to be a popular stance. There will not be another time in America where this is a mainstream opinion to have. Believing in the Word of God, standing firm on the Word of God is going to get more and more difficult to do. And so it's important for us to not just submit in our

own personal lives to Scripture, but to also know what the Word of God says so that when someone asks, we have a reason for the faith that we have. And we're able to say, look, I love you, and you are mating God's image and you are valuable. And I want you to come to know Christ. this is what the word of God says about marriage. So do not believe all of the back and forth that you're hearing that is trying to pick out all of the ways that we can redefine marriage to mean something that it's not according to the Bible. Because again, that's simply the wrong posture before scripture. We're not supposed to be asking ourselves what we can get away with. But do we want what God wants? Do we love what God loves? Have we counted the cost? Have we counted the cost that Jesus asks us to count before? we follow him, are we ready to pay the price that he asks us to pay? Are we ready to truly take up our crosses, deny ourselves, and follow him? Are we willing to do that? If that is our posture before scripture, it really doesn't matter what we feel. It really doesn't matter our opinions. What matters is that Christ has shown us a better way, that God has shown us a better and more eternal way.

And all I'm saying is far be it from me, far be it from me to rewrite something that he is so intentionally and specifically authored in his word. I just don't think that I have the authority to mess with that and I don't think that you do either. So that's where I'm going to end that today. I hope that was helpful for you in kind of wrapping your mind around what the Bible says about this. It's become a very like choppy issue where people just say, well, oh, these are the only verses that are relevant. No, that's not true. We have to look at the entirety of scripture and realize It's much more profound than that. Okay, I hope that you guys have a good day,

and I will see you back here on Wednesday.