Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1276 | TPUSA Fact-Checks Candace Owens. Are Things About to Get Ugly?

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Starting point is 00:00:46 That's fellowship homelones.com slash alley, term supply, see site for details, fellowship home loans, mortgage lending by the book, nationwide mortgage bankers, DBA Fellowship Home Loans, equal housing lender, NMLS, number 819382. Turning Point and Candace Owens are now going head to head in a fact-finding mission in the effort to bring the truth to light about Charlie Kirk's assassination. We've got the details on that back and forth today. Also, we are talking to Alliance defending Freedom and a woman named Amy who directs a pregnancy center in New Jersey that has been targeted by the Democrats in that state for simply

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Starting point is 00:02:03 Code Alley 15. Hey guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Monday. I know this audio sounds terrible. I tried to get my at-home mic to work and I just didn't have the proper apparatus set up. So I apologize. Please bear with me. It will be much better on Wednesday and Friday of this week.

Starting point is 00:02:31 Thank you guys so much for watching and listening. If you love this show, please subscribe. to us on YouTube. We just crossed 700K, which is super exciting. Thank you all so much to those of you who have subscribed for so long or new subscribers. Make sure you subscribe on Spotify and on Apple as well. Leave us a five-star review. It really helps us out. It allows us to continue giving you this show for free. On Monday, I like to remind my audience that God's eternal plan of redemption is always going off without a hitch. Nothing takes him aback. Nothing surprises him. Nothing throws him off. off, but he is always working all things, all things together for the good of those who love him,

Starting point is 00:03:11 who are called according to his purpose. And speaking of that, if you haven't listened to Friday's episode with Lindsay, she escaped a cult called The Way in Minnesota. She found life and freedom in Christ. Her testimony while disturbing at parts is so incredibly redemptive and encouraging. I know how much you guys love testimonies. I love testimonies. It's one of my favorite parts of my job that I get to hear people's stories of how God just captured their hearts in very dark circumstances. It's such a good reminder to me that God's work isn't always making headlines. It's not always going viral when it seems like he's just doing one thing. He's actually doing a million things. And he is seeking and saving the lost at whatever cost. So go listen to or

Starting point is 00:03:58 watch on YouTube. Lindsay's story. It's just amazing. All right. We've got a few things to get to today. it's going to be a little bit different. The episode is going to be broken up by a quick interview with Aaron Hawley from Alliance to Penny Freedom and Amy Huber, who is the director of a pregnancy center in New Jersey that has been targeted by their Democrat Attorney General. But first, I wanted to give you an update on what is going on with Candace Owens and Turning Point USA. You will remember a couple weeks ago, I did an episode where I detailed from my Christian perspective what I think is wrong with Candice Owens' methods of trying to find out who really killed Charlie Kirk. Her podcast series has been more of a drip campaign with pieces of information and hunches alleging

Starting point is 00:04:52 that certain people are implicated in a plot to kill Charlie. And while I completely am on board with figuring out the truth and bringing justice to light. And while I agree with questioning anything that the media runs with or that the government says, I think that there is a righteous way to do that. And I think that there is a wrong way to do that. How I would describe what's going on now is this. So on last Wednesday's episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, producer Blake Knapp, addressed Candace Owens's podcast series where she surmises based on bits of information. hunches who killed Charlie. And I would say that's totally an objective description. Every episode

Starting point is 00:05:38 she eludes to secret sources to having more information than she's letting on to finally finding a missing piece of the puzzle that's going to bring this all together. But we're not typically told in this podcast series how the information or her conclusions logically and factually fit together. Her audience relies on her intuition, her knowledge, pieces of information that kind of have to be glued together by the conclusion that Candace has put forth, that Charlie was betrayed by turning point and that Israel was somehow involved in his assassination. And within this narrative, she's implicated, as I said, some people, she said that Charlie's chief of staff, whose name is Mikey McCoy, has had a quote, Pepin his step because he was,

Starting point is 00:06:25 was, according to her, told that he was going to be some kind of heir to turning point. She has accused Josh Hammer and Seth Dillon of being a part of some kind of nefarious pressure campaign to get Charlie to unconditionally support Israel, which Candace claims, as I said, was a big part of Charlie's death. She doesn't believe that the suspect in this case actually killed Charlie. we try to avoid using the names of suspects in cases like this because they are typically looking for notoriety. Candace believes that she is trying to get to the bottom of it. And of course, I believe that she loves Charlie.

Starting point is 00:07:04 I believe that they had a sincere friendship when things first started. I think it was seven or eight years ago. And I believe that her mourning is totally genuine. but she does seem to believe that virtually everyone close to Charlie stabbed him in the back and that it is her cause to take up finding out how this happened and who actually was involved and she seems to believe also that Charlie had surrounded himself with very bad people and I guess that he was just too naive to see that for himself and that that led to his murder. Now, in the midst of this, she has released text messages between her and Charlie, some of them very negative about Ben Shapiro.

Starting point is 00:07:55 The other day, she published a text between her and Charlie again from seven or so years ago where he was asking her advice and what to wear on a date with this girl that she says he was in love with that apparently was not Erica. And so I did that episode a couple weeks ago just explaining my problem with the direction and this. method. It's not that I have an issue with asking questions at all. I have an issue, however, with evidenceless accusations. There is no evidence that Mikey McCoy was happy about Charlie's death, and I think that's a very dark and deeply offensive accusation to make without proof. And I also believe I'm a Christian. This is a Christian podcast, and we're always bringing the biblical perspective on this. I believe it's downright simple. I think that the biblical term for that is called reviling or slander and revilers, those who maliciously lie about someone, it's a really

Starting point is 00:08:53 big deal. The Lord lists it in a list of other sins in 1st Corinthians 6. And I also want to remember for myself, Proverbs 1821, that death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits. Oh my goodness, Lord, please help me as a professional talker. Remember that every single day. Our tongue is so powerful. What we say has a real impact. I also just see no evidence that Israel or any of its supporters were involved in Charlie's tragic assassination. I am always open to evidence, but nothing so far. Nothing so far, not the Egyptian plains, not the fact that his friends pushed back on Charlie's shifting views has been proof of this accusation. I don't see evidence that those closest to Charlie at turning point betrayed him. Those people knew him.

Starting point is 00:09:45 and loved him a lot better than we did than anyone did. Erica, his wife, loved and knew him better than anyone. So I just have a hard time believing that they are not the actual ones doing everything that they can to pursue truth and justice for Charlie without jeopardizing, of course, a fair trial for the suspect. That's a very important part of all of this. So I just want my audience, whether you agree with that or not, whether you're a fan of Candace or not, I want you to keep those things in mind that innuendo is not investigation because a true investigation asks questions based on hard evidence and then releases the proven faxes. They come. It is not publishing every theory and fragmented piece of information as a podcast series. Those two things are not the same. Now, many of us have been

Starting point is 00:10:37 wondering, okay, is turning point going to respond to some of these claims that are being made, not just by Candace, but by others. There are a lot of conspiracies that have been floating around about Turning Point, sadly about Erica. And we've been wondering, are they going to address these directly? And it was kind of starting to feel like, just to be honest, okay, like a whole lot of us are putting it on the line, trying to push back against some of these things,

Starting point is 00:11:02 correcting the record, knowing that there will be blowback. But Turning Point, although they are kind of fact-checking things implicitly, subliminally, they are not saying this person sent this and this is why this is wrong. However, that has changed. And Blake Nath, who is a producer on Charlie's show, he delivered a monologue last Wednesday, kind of explaining their reasoning for why they hadn't said anything explicitly thus far and why that is changing. Here is sub 12.

Starting point is 00:11:34 For months, we have received hundreds, thousands, I suspect, emails and calls asking us to respond. people have wanted us to invite Candace on the show. But for a long time, our approach was to say nothing. We did that for several reasons. First, we thought that her prevarications were so absurd that nobody would believe them. We shouldn't have to answer questions about secret tunnels or Egyptian Air Force planes. That sort of thing is just, it's beneath contempt to respond to. The second reason we've said so little, though, is because there's a good rule of thumb, which Charlie followed.

Starting point is 00:12:09 do not feed the trolls. Focus on the mission. Reviving America, uplifting young people, making heaven crowded. Don't give air to people who want to tear you down and so discord.

Starting point is 00:12:21 Lastly, we didn't respond because Charlie always viewed Candace as a friend and we were holding out hope that she would return that friendship and stop what she was doing. So Candace seems to feel that she is being a good friend to Charlie

Starting point is 00:12:40 by trying to figure out who done it. The other perspective on that is that in the midst of that supposed effort, she is destroying, some would say, like the fruit of his labor, that he tried so hard to bring together a Republican coalition to vote Republican, to vote for the better, more freedom-minded candidate, even if we disagreed on a variety of things, and he did that through turning point. And he did that by turning out the vote, by chasing ballots, by trying to figure out, okay, what do we agree on?

Starting point is 00:13:17 What materials for this edifice of America do we agree on so we can actually build something? And that is just juxtaposed with how progressives do things, which is, well, let's just, it doesn't matter what materials we're using as long as we are tearing the thing down. Much more difficult to build than to destroy because you have to agree on materials. And right now in the wake of Charlie's death, we are seeing that, oh, like, we don't have, there are a lot of different factions, a lot of different fragments that we don't agree on what the foundation should look like. And Charlie was kind of holding a lot of that together, and he was holding that together through Turning Point. And he worked so hard. He sprinted his race until he was 32 years old, and God called him home. And I think Turning Point probably few.

Starting point is 00:14:08 I don't know that, wow, everything that Charlie built and tried to do is being undermined and is being questioned by this person who is potentially implicating turning point itself in Charlie's murder. And so I understand why they feel now and need to defend themselves. Blake said later that Erica kind of signed off on his statement, signed off on their efforts to fact check. And so now they are scheduling a time to actually fact check. live and they invited Candace to be a part of that. I'll get into that back and forth just a little bit because I just want to make sure that you know who said what. But let me pause and tell you about our first sponsor. It's seven weeks coffee. So thankful for seven weeks. They're America's

Starting point is 00:14:52 pro-life coffee company. I drink my cup of seven weeks coffee this morning. Actually, I just remembered. I just brewed some an hour ago and I forgot to drink it. So I'm going to go have to grab my next cup of seven weeks coffee. I love that it tastes good. I love that it's so high quality. It's clean. It's pesticide free. I love that it's better than organic, but I love its name most of all. It's called seven weeks coffee because it's seven weeks that baby is just the size of a coffee bean. Yet he or she is made in God's image and is fully worth protecting. So when you buy from seven weeks coffee, you are serving a higher purpose because they are donating 10% of every sale to pregnancy centers across the country. They've raised over $1 million for these life-saving pregnancy centers. So

Starting point is 00:15:37 be a part of that by allowing your coffee to serve an eternal purpose. When you subscribe to seven weeks coffee, you save 15%. But when you use my code, Allie, you get 10% off a checkout. So that's a total of 25% savings. Go to 7weeks Coffee.com. Use code Alley at checkout, but 7weeks coffee.com code Alley. So he listed in his monologue some of the theories that Candice Owens has put forth details of train points, Utah Valley University were unusual that some of something that Candace claimed. That's something that I personally refuted because I have experience and like campus stops in the past.

Starting point is 00:16:20 She suggested that the assassination was quote an inside job. This is what Blake Nath claimed. He also addressed the assertion that Charlie's security team intentionally denied him first aid after he was shot. He also listed the assertion that foreign aircrafts, specifically Egyptian planes, have followed Erica Kirk all around the country. Mikey McCoy knew Charlie Kirk was going to be murdered, but covered it up. That is Blake saying something that he says, Candace said and was happy about Charlie Kirk's death.

Starting point is 00:16:55 Here's what he had to say specifically on that one, someone. She has suggested that Michael McCoy, Charlie's chief of staff, knew Charlie would be murdered, was happy that he died, and stayed silent because he was told he would be the next Charlie. She has suggested Michael is not his real name. It is. I have seen his birth certificate myself. She has called it suspicious that Mikey's wife, who works at Turning Point, helped plan the campus tour event where Charlie was murdered, which she didn't, by the way, she doesn't work on campus events.

Starting point is 00:17:28 Okay. He also addresses her claim that Turning Point funds were unaccounted for, and basically I think that if this were true, then that would be a criticism of Charlie's leadership and his response. responsibility. But here's what Bliknapp has to say about that. She has made claims of financial impropriety and fraud at Turning Point adding up into the millions of dollars, which again is not true. Charlie made sure the organization was audited by a third party every year. He personally reviewed and he signed off on every expense report and literally every single bill paid by the organization down to a single United States dollar. We have never missed a 990.

Starting point is 00:18:10 line? Okay. So Blake Knaf said that Turning Point staffers were receiving more hate from Candace's followers than Antifa. And I do know that there are people that are calling Turning Point. I don't know if it's every day. I don't know how often it is. It wouldn't surprise me if it were ever, if it was every day, people calling and saying, I'm no longer donating to Turning Point because I think TPSA is involved in his murder somehow or they're not being transparent enough. And so they are really being impacted by these theories. So he also said that on Monday, December 15th, that they are going to do a live stream

Starting point is 00:18:53 going claim by claim and debunking them, which I think is the best thing to do. And hopefully, like, Candice would support this too. Like, because she's a huge audience. She's incredibly influential and impactful. If she's going to make these claims, it is only fair for turning point to respond.

Starting point is 00:19:11 Not me, not all of these people who cared about Charlie outside the turning point, but turning point themselves. And so they are going to do this. And Blake Neff says, Candace is welcome to join. Not as like an interviewee or as a debater or even as a guest, but just welcome to join into the live stream. And I guess ask whatever questions or bring whatever counterpoints she wants. Here's a thought three.

Starting point is 00:19:36 Candice has mentioned several times that the ball is in our court. So here's what is going to happen. In the near future, there will be a live stream here in Phoenix, where we address in a clear and comprehensive way the claims and accusations, the false accusations, that have been made against Charlie's family, friends, and the people here at Turning Point. We plan to walk through everything carefully and thoroughly. If Candace is available, we would sincerely welcome her participation in that live stream at our studio here in Phoenix. at this point, we believe the ball is back in her court. Okay, so I think that's direct. That's great. He made the parameters, which they are allowed to do. Some people think that it's wrong, how they did this. Like, maybe they should have reached out to her scene when she was available.

Starting point is 00:20:28 I don't think so. Like, I think that they did this the right way. This is what they're going to do. This is the time that they're going to do it. And she's welcome to join if she can or not. So this is what Blake Neff posted after he posted this monologue on acts. He said the live stream we announced on the show Wednesday has been set at 4 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Local time. That's Phoenix time on Monday, December 15th. A collection of Charlie's friends will respond to statements made by Candice to set the record straight once and for all prior to the opening of America Fest. We'll be live streaming from Charlie's Phoenix studio. Our offer from yesterday holds if Candice wishes to join us in person in Phoenix, she is welcome to do so.

Starting point is 00:21:06 she can let us know by the end of the day. And I think that's fair. Like I think a totally fair parameter is that something is done in person because when something is done remotely, and I'm not even saying this is always nefarious or always malicious, this is just true. This is the way things can be. If you are doing an interview in your own studio with your own earpiece, with your own producers, your producers can feed you things. Your producers can tell you, hey, here's the answer to bring up this statistic. Again, I'm not saying that it's always nefarious and bad and wrong, but if you are trying to have, like, the most beneficial and productive conversation possible, I do think something face-to-face where you're all privy to the same information that's right in front of you, I do think

Starting point is 00:21:58 that that is, like, the most conducive to actually a good, formidable discussion. Now, Candace responded to this. said kind of weird how you didn't email or call me to ask about times or availability and chosen stead to tweet this confirmation out at midnight. Why am I learning about this on X? December 15th does not work in person and 2 PMPT is also the literal time I do my podcast live every day, which you knew, but we will happily cancel the daily podcast and we'll join you guys virtually instead for the live stream on the 15th if that works on your end. Let's lock it in. So she's saying she can't do it in person, but she could possibly do it. virtually. She said, we'll also add that I'm happy to jump on Charlie's show any day before

Starting point is 00:22:42 them virtually as well. I was serious when I said we could do it today even. Virtually, I can make it happen pretty much any day because it's easier to move things around with the kids and find someone to sub for my morning homeschooling. I saw some people highlight that sub for my morning homeschooling. I don't know. I think her oldest is four. And so I think that it's totally fine to say no, like I can't come in person and that's not like a reason I can come, but, or like, you know, there are a variety of reasons I can't come. But this has been something that has dominated her content and seemingly her life for the past few months. And it does seem like this would be such a huge opportunity. If she feels like she has the facts that are uncovering who really murdered,

Starting point is 00:23:30 like one of her best friends, it seems like this is like an incredible opportunity to be able to present her case. Like if what she wants is truth and justice and transparency, the opportunity to be face to face with some of the people that are at least involved in the betrayal of Charlie Kirk, as she alleges, I mean, that is huge. It just seems like if this is something that has been so central to your energy and your focus for the past few months, then you would drop absolutely anything to be there and just to say, look, here is my evidence, here are my points. And I am going to hold you guys accountable right now. Like that would be really, really important. On Friday, Nuff explains the invitation was for an in-person appearance, not virtual for the

Starting point is 00:24:19 sake of authenticity and detail. I always try to do as many like in-person interviews when it's something that's really important, especially a debate. I haven't always done that. You could find virtual interviews and debates that I've done, but it's so much better in person. Like, when you can really interact with someone and you all kind of have the same things in front of you, you're all hearing the same things. Here's what Candice said. She responded to the original offer of, like, yeah, let's do this. Let's have you join SOP 5. So when you extend an invitation of live streaming and you don't explicitly say it must be in person, why would I assume that you're going to rescind the offer if I say that I can appear via live stream.

Starting point is 00:25:04 Okay? They never said that. When they made the offer and they were pretending that they were being sincere, they never made in person a point of their demands. They never also said that I had to respond within 24 hours. That's a hostage situation. Okay. Okay.

Starting point is 00:25:22 So that's how she feels about that. That's fine. And she said, now she did say at one point, like any day, any time I, I will do this. She was really excited, it seemed like, when she got the initial invitation. But then she said, you know, no, I can't do this in person. Here's not six. 24 hours to respond.

Starting point is 00:25:46 How about, hmm, let me see if I can make that work, even if I could have made it work, which I couldn't have because my husband instantly said, no, you cannot do this Monday. And he runs the household. And he has an important thing going on that day, which involves people. that are coming in from overseas. But even if I could have made that work, I would not have within 24 hours have confirmed to them

Starting point is 00:26:07 if they had even sent me an email because I have kids. I would have had organized things. It would have just taken longer than 24 hours and they knew that. So as of right now, this may change as the day goes on. Blake and F has not responded

Starting point is 00:26:19 to Candace Owens' new terms. Even though she said the ball is in his court, I have no idea. I don't have any insider information about what's going to happen next. I think it's good that they are going to go through the claims of backcheck them. I'm sad that they feel like they have to do this, that this is kind of being waged in the

Starting point is 00:26:39 court of public opinion. I am sure that they would have loved everyone to kind of keep quiet for a little bit just so that the justice system can do what the justice system is supposed to do. And as the trial goes on, ask questions about the veracity of the claims being made, the arguments by the prosecution and the defense, I don't think it's wrong again to say, well, this doesn't add up or this seems weird or this seems strange or is this true and then to dig for truth. I don't think innuendo-driven implication of people that you don't have any evidence for their involvement is okay. I really just don't. There are some Bible verses that come to mind on this

Starting point is 00:27:15 Proverbs 2620. For lack of wood, the fire goes out and where there is no whisper quarreling ceases. Gossip fuels conflict innuendo drives viewership, refusing to spread that in trying as best we can to stick to what is biblically and logically and factually true actually extinguishes unnecessary division. Sometimes division is worth it if it happens in the pursuit of what is good, right, and true. But, you know, Charlie always said there are some people that build and there are some people that simply destroy. Look at the fruit of someone's life. Look at the fruit of someone's ministry. Can you look at something and say, wow, they've built something? Or do you look at the fruit of their ministry and say, well, there's only division. There's only chaos. There's only

Starting point is 00:28:04 confusion. There's only gossip there. And when I look at the fruit of that, when I look and ask, has that person built something? The answer is no. I think that's really important for all of us. That's, you know, something when I look at something like not just turning point, but when I look at shared arrows or when I look at like the other ministries that people have started, like apologetics ministries, like what Frank Turrick does, I'm just so thankful for the Holy Spirit and how he allows us to build if we would simply follow his precepts. Proverbs 1817, the one who states his case first seems right until the other comes and examines him. Public accusations require discernment, not instant judgment, not hunches, not vibes. Ephesians 429, let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up as fits the occasion that it may give grace to those who hear. Proverbs 2019, whoever goes about slandering and reveals secrets, therefore do not associate with a simple babbler. So God warns against partnering with those who amplify unverified claims.

Starting point is 00:29:16 And we've probably all been guilty of that at one time or another. I've been guilty of that. And we just need to acknowledge that sin and we need to repent of that sin. James 119, know this, my beloved brothers. Let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to become angry. Good lessons for all of us. All right. Now we are going to have an interview with Aaron Hawley and Amy Huber, the state of pregnancy centers,

Starting point is 00:29:42 the fight that pregnancy sinners are having to wage in blue states, just to be able to stay open. Darkness hates the light and they will do whatever it takes even legal means to try to destroy that light. But before we get into that, let me tell you about our next sponsor for the day. That's Adele Natural Cosmetics. You guys know I love Adele. I use them every single day, especially their essential cleanser. It works so well for my skin. It takes all of my makeup off even when I'm wearing like heavy studio makeup. It removes all of it and it leaves my skin feeling so clean and so moisturized, especially in these cold months. I can get really dry skin, but not with Adele. All of their products are completely holistic, all natural ingredients,

Starting point is 00:30:24 no fake fragrances or anything like that. But it smells really good because the essential oils that they put in their products are amazing. Arlene and her family are the real deal. Christians just trying to glorify God and everything they do. Go to Adele, natural cosmetics.com. Use code Allie. You'll get 25 person off your first time purchase. That's Adele Natural Cosmetics.com code Abby. Amy and Aaron, thank you all so much for joining me. Amy, I'm going to start with you. Tell us about your pregnancy center and then when you got notified of this subpoena by the AG. Sure, Ali, thank you so much for having me. We have served women in their families for 40 years. We have five locations in New Jersey and women who are scared and vulnerable and think that abortion is their only option can come to us and receive professional services and compassionate care all free of charge.

Starting point is 00:31:21 We have served over 36,000 women and their families in the last 40 years. So I guess our story with this legal battle started a little over two years ago when a representative from the Attorney General's office of our state came to my office and handed me a subpoena. It commanded us to release up to 10 years of documentation on our donor communications, our advertising, our statements about abortion pill reversal, and even our donor's identities and their contact information. It was very daunting and very overwhelming. Yeah, I can imagine. My goodness. Okay, so first choice women's resource centers, before we get into this legal battle, can you tell us a little bit more about the specific services you offer? Certainly. We provide free pregnancy tests, medical confirmation of pregnancy via ultrasound, options counseling, and a whole host of material services to support a woman through her pregnancy and after the birth of her baby. And have you ever been in conflict with state or local authorities who tried to hinder your mission at all? No, never. This was the first time. So it felt very out of the

Starting point is 00:32:36 blue, I'm sure. It did feel out of the blue, and yet the attack on pregnancy centers in New Jersey had been ramping up the year prior because the Division of Consumer Affairs issued a consumer alert warning the public about, quote-unquote, deceptive crisis pregnancy centers. So we saw that and we were responding to that. So when the subpoena came, it definitely felt more personal, but not a huge shock. Right. Okay. Erin,

Starting point is 00:33:09 tell us, first, let's just get down to brass tax. What is a subpoena? Sure. So a subpoena is actually Latin for the phrase under penalty.

Starting point is 00:33:18 And when you look at the subpoena that Amy received, you can see why it twice threatens that if she fails to hand over these 10 years, you know, up to 10 years worth of documentation, including her donor names,

Starting point is 00:33:30 their phone numbers, addresses, and past employment. If she doesn't just give all of that to the attorney general, the subpoena threatens that she and her organization could be subject to contempt as well as a possible loss of license to do business. So it is a legal document that on its face threatens recipients in New Jersey with really dramatic consequences if they don't comply. Wow. What are the consequences? So the statute lists several of them. One is being held in contempt of court. One of them is losing their business license.

Starting point is 00:34:05 If you can, your advertisements can be shut down. And the statute also sort of opens it up any other penalty that the court considers necessary until the party, quote, obeys the subpoena. So a really strong regime encouraging people to comply with subpoenas. Wow. Okay. Are there other pregnancy centers in New Jersey who have received the subpoena as well? We know of at least one other one.

Starting point is 00:34:32 but it has had ramifications even beyond these two centers. One of the amicus briefs submitted in the case detailed that a third center had actually lost their medical director because of the subpoenas. They were worried that their other business might be impacted by their association with the pregnancy care center. So the medical director resigned upon hearing about the subpoenas. And quite frankly, that seems to have been the whole point. The Attorney General of Missouri, or excuse me, of New Jersey as an Amykes. said, has, you know, issued consumer alerts against pregnancy centers. He has warned women to

Starting point is 00:35:09 beware of pregnancy centers. And so this idea of sort of scaring them into silence seems to be part of the point here. So what is the response to people who say, well, you know, it's not like he is stopping them from functioning. He's just trying to look out for the consumer, look out for potential clients by making them be as transparent as possible and just tell the truth about what they offer. That's all that's going on here. What would be the response to that, Erin? So I think two responses. One is Justice Thomas brought out an oral argument. There has never been a complaint identified by the Attorney General against First Choice. There simply is no allegation that anyone has been misled by First Choice. And then second, the Attorney General says, you know,

Starting point is 00:35:57 donors might have been confused. They might have thought that they were donating to Planned Parenthood rather than to a center that helps women and children. And that's just doesn't pass the straight face test when you look at the donation page. It has pictures of smiling babies and families. Realistically, no one would think that was a donation page for Planned Parenthood. It's clearly an organization that supports both women and children. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:36:26 And that doesn't even make any sense. considering the names aren't even close. I guess if you could say someone was completely illiterate, could not see, then I guess anything is possible, but that seems far-fetched to me. Amy, what effect has this had thus far on your center as far as your personnel and your ability to serve the women in crisis in your area?

Starting point is 00:36:48 I would say another penalty of the subpoena that Aaron didn't mention is just the fact that the sheer overwhelming task of complying with the subpoena when you're a small nonprofit is completely overwhelming. I can't even quantify the hours or the staff it would take or anything else. It would be just so difficult. And really, that's the harm right there, right? Because it would take away from our mission of serving women.

Starting point is 00:37:19 So how has it affected us? There are certainly volunteers who have not volunteered. because of our legal battle. They have come and express interest, but I have actually told us, you know what? Maybe when this comes down, then I can join you and I'll volunteer.

Starting point is 00:37:39 It's hard to imagine how many women haven't come to us because when you Google first choice, they just see a legal battle. So when you're scared and vulnerable, I'm not sure if I were them that I would go to an organization like that. And then, of course, the chill that can perhaps exist for potential donors as well in terms of wanting to donate to an organization with our mission and yet wondering how that could be affected by a legal battle as well. So this is what's meant by the chilling effect or part of what's meant. Of course, it has a chilling effect in a lot of ways.

Starting point is 00:38:20 You have other pregnancy centers who I'm sure are scared to advertise. or try to get people into their door because they're afraid this is going to happen to them. But as you just said, it also chills other people. It scares other people off from helping, from donating because they look and they see the word subpoena and they think, well, they must have done something wrong. And in all of that, it just makes me think that the process is the punishment, even if after all of this compliance, nothing nefarious comes out, which of course it won't. that's not really the point.

Starting point is 00:38:54 The point isn't really to prove the child are guilty. The point is to make it as hard as possible for you to do the nonprofit work that you're trying to do, which is save babies' lives and serve women, right? That's correct. Quick pause from that conversation to tell you about a very fitting sponsor for this segment, and that is WeHeart Nutrition. I love WeHeart Nutrition. I take their supplements every day.

Starting point is 00:39:22 I take their multivitamin. I take their magnesium. I take their omega-3s. I take their immunity supplement, which is new. Whenever I'm feeling like a little bit down, it really helps me kick it. Their probiotic has been an amazing addition to my vitamin regimen. Let's see, did I miss anything? Oh, I take their iron supplement. I literally take everything. The only thing that I wasn't taking from WeHeart Nutrition was the probiotic, but that's just because they hadn't come out with it yet. Now that they've done that, I am 100% filled with We Heart Nutrition Supplements, and I'm so grateful for it. It helps me stay healthy.

Starting point is 00:39:59 It helps me feel good. It helps my hair, skin, and nails. All of the most bioavailable ingredients are used to my body is actually absorbing the things that I need. Plus, this is an unapologetically pro-life, pro-Jesus family-owned company. They put so much heart and soul into every product that they make. And they also donate to pregnancy centers with every single sale. They have donated so much money to these pregnancy centers because they that is where their heart is and they put their money where their heart is and you can do that too. Order we heart nutrition at wehernutrition. com. Use code Allie. You'll get 20% off your order. That's weheartnutrition.com code Alley. So Aaron, tell us where things stand right now. What does this fight looked like and what's happening

Starting point is 00:40:51 at the moment? Sure. So as Amy said, she was served with a support. Pena almost two years ago. And to sort of give your listeners just a small glimpse of what Amy has stood through, there has been a legal battle taking place not only in the federal courts, but also in the state courts. So Alliance Defending Freedom filed suit on her behalf in federal court said that they're not entitled to this information, especially the donor names. Meanwhile, the Attorney General filed suit and state court. So altogether, there have been over 50 briefs in I think five different courts filed in this litigation. And again, you know, first choice is focused on helping women and children, not fighting legal battles. So a huge burden on the

Starting point is 00:41:37 nonprofit. And currently, we were extremely thankful. The Supreme Court actually granted sort of this case, heard oral argument in the case last Tuesday, which it does in only a very small fraction of cases that people ask for the court to review. And the court seemed quite sympathetic to First Choice's arguments. A number of the justices from Justice Kagan to the Chief Justice Justice really indicated that just out of common sense, donors are going to be hesitant to donate to an organization that has been targeted by the state's highest law enforcement officer. Justice Thomas pointed out that no complaint has been filed or identified. by the Attorney General's office.

Starting point is 00:42:23 And so Justice Gorsuch was really keen on those legal penalties that you mentioned. And so the court seemed quite concerned about both the sort of power disparity between the Attorney General's office and a small nonprofit, issuing a subpoena, demanding

Starting point is 00:42:38 things that the Constitution protects. So we are hopeful. The case has been fully argued. We'll hopefully come out in several months. It could be as late as June, but we are hoping and praying for a result that will protect both Amy as well as other pregnancy centers around the country. Yes, absolutely. And I meant to ask this earlier, but with only these two pregnancy centers

Starting point is 00:43:01 targeted in New Jersey, why first choice? I have no idea. You're listening to Amy. She does such a good job. I don't know if it's perhaps because she's one of the more prominent organizations helping women in New Jersey. You've heard about the 36,000 women that they have helped. So perhaps it's just because they're doing such good work. When you look across the country, like to get sort of an X on your back or a target on your back, you wouldn't think that helping women when no one else is there would do that. But it certainly has in some blue states. Yeah. Amy, tell me what the Lord has taught you and the other staff. and volunteers at the pregnancy center through this difficulty?

Starting point is 00:43:51 There's so much that he's taught me. It's just I have story after story of how personally he's come. I think one of the things that he's taught me is that he wastes nothing, that everything in your life is purposeful and everything in your life when given to him can prepare you for what he has for you. So he wastes nothing. He's also shown us that what the enemy intent is, for evil. God uses for good for the saving of many lives. I've seen that in many different ways

Starting point is 00:44:23 for our staff, the unity, and the cohesive nature of our staff and our board, the courage that everyone has had and how we have united through this is really a gift. So those are a couple things. It's been a sweet time with him over the last two years. I can certainly say that. God is so good. How long have you been serving in this position? 35 years. 35. 35 of the 40 years. Oh, my goodness. What an incredible blessing. I'm so thankful for you. I have the privilege of speaking to a lot of pregnancy centers at their gals and banquets all across the country. And I am just, I never cease to be in awe of what the Lord does through the directors at these pregnancy centers. There's a lot of other things that you could have chosen to do. That would have been a lot

Starting point is 00:45:24 easier. That would have paid a lot of money, different, different things. But you have gone where the Lord has called you. And I'm just very grateful. And he, I'm sure, used the 33 years before this subpoena was issued to prepare you for this moment. And I know it's a lot to ask that over the course of three and a half decades, I ask you to pull out one story of one client who has been served and whose baby has been saved at first choice. But if you have one top of mind, I would I would love to hear it. Oh, I'd be glad to. One that comes to mind is Mila. And she's just special because I think she's the first woman. for whom we were instrumental in providing the abortion pill reversal.

Starting point is 00:46:12 So she had taken the first abortion pill and then went home and looked at her children and realized what she had done and regretted it. And her friend went online and found the National Abortion Pills Reversal Hotline. And they contacted us since she was in our area. And she took the progesterone, which is just a natural hormone that occurs in a woman's body. and reverse the effects of the first pill. And her daughter, Scarlett, is eight years old today. I think she's in third grade. And you just realize that anything like this, this legal battle,

Starting point is 00:46:51 while we wouldn't have chosen it, God has chosen us. And the women and the babies that we serve are worth this fight because they need pregnancy centers across the nation. So it's all worth it when you look at her sweet face and look at her mom. Absolutely. Well, Amy and then Aaron, how can we support you just as a center, but also in this specific battle, because as Aaron articulated, like, this is not just about you guys. Like, this represents all pro-lifers in a sense, but certainly all pregnancy centers. So first, tell us, Amy, how we can support first choice.

Starting point is 00:47:30 Prayer, that's the best way. There are people praying all throughout the nation. I had a pregnancy center director from Alaska call me on Friday and say, we are praying for you. So you do realize that this fight has become personal for a lot of pregnancy centers because they know it could be them. So prayer without a doubt. Find your local pregnancy center and volunteer. Look up pregnancy center in your area and volunteer, see what their needs are. We're grassroots, small nonprofits, and we just appreciate people. And then if people are led to give, our website is first choice give.com. So that's always an option as well.

Starting point is 00:48:14 And support your local pregnancy center too. Thank you so much. And Erin, how can we support y'all specifically as this battle continues to wage? I think I would just, yeah, hardly support all of the things that Amy said. pray for a broad outcome that will really make clear that hostile state officials cannot harass pregnancy care centers or anyone else just because they disagree with their point of view and what they're standing for. So prayer is just for a broad decision that, again, the justice has seemed really sympathetic to that viewpoint, so we are hopeful. But just the ability to protect women

Starting point is 00:48:54 and children should be so foundational to our country, to what we are as a country. And so prayers for that. Yeah. Well, thank you all so much. And thanks for taking up this mantle. Always easier not to do so. But the Lord, I guess, kind of put this in y'all's lap. And I don't know all the reasons why for it, but I know that he does work all things together for the good of those who love him, who are called according to his purpose. And I love hearing the stories of how he is continuing to save lives through y'all's obedience. So thank you all so much. Thank you, Erin. Thank you, ADF. And we will absolutely be praying for first choice. So thank you, Amy. Thank you. Okay. So that tells us so much of what we need to do. We need to be praying for this particular pregnancy center. Every pregnancy center, especially in blue states. And you should donate to

Starting point is 00:49:52 and volunteer at your local pregnancy center. And actually, I will be posting some a way, for you to do that for local pregnancy centers across the country, almost 100 of them on my Instagram starting today. Before we get into this last segment of the show, I want to tell you about Samaritan's purse. Y'all, you know the amazing work Samaritans purse does around the world for the world's poor, for those in crisis, for the little children who haven't been able to access the kind of resources, the comfort and the love and the gospel that our kids. so wonderfully get to here in America. They do Operation Christmas Child every year. That's where you fill a shoe box with different toys, toothbrushes, hairbrushes, all different kinds of things that can bless a child

Starting point is 00:50:42 in need around the world. These millions of boxes are delivered to children throughout the year, and it's not over. Even though National Collection Week is over, you can still make your Operation Christmas Child box, donate it to Samaritan's purse, and they will do the rest. They will make sure that it it gets into the hands of a child that needs to hear the hope of Christ and feel the joy of Christmas. Go to samaritanspurse.org slash build online to learn more. That's samaritans purse.org slash build online. Okay, our last segment today is less serious, but I saw it and I was like, I've got to talk about it. I've got to talk about how ridiculous that is, this is.

Starting point is 00:51:27 And as we think about everything that's going on in the world, like the true oppression, the true injustice, the true sadness that occurs on a daily basis. And then we look at what liberals in America get angry about, get riled up about. It just makes you think, right? Like, it just makes you think that maybe we have a little too much. Maybe we're a little too comfortable. Things are a little too luxurious here that we can have a complete national freak out about the color of the year as decided by pantone. Okay, for the first time ever, according to the Washington Post, Pantone's color of the year is a shade of dot, dot, dot, white.

Starting point is 00:52:14 Okay? The particular color is called Cloud Dancer. On Friday, December 5th, Pantone announced its 2026 color of the year. So this is the company that releases every other color of the year. It's supposed to be a prediction of the color that is going to be like in style or used a lot or is indicative of this present moment. some kind of stylistic way. So the 2026 color of the year, Pantone says, is soft, muted off white called Cloud Dancer.

Starting point is 00:52:41 For the first time ever, Pantone has chosen a shade of white and plenty of people online are calling to pick tone deaf and racist Pantone's president, Sky Kelly, who is black, by the way, said, quote, we knew that people would have emotions

Starting point is 00:52:54 about this color. Here's SOT 8. To address some of the online comments, let me state clearly that white is indeed a color. We knew that people would have emotions about this year's color. When I first learned color, I thought, oh, this is going to be pretty controversial. But the power of this program, the power of Pantone's color of the year, is that it sparks a conversation, a conversation about color that everyone can participate in. At Pantone, we don't dictate that conversation.

Starting point is 00:53:35 Okay, so people were not okay with this. We have this person who had a highly engaged with post on exit. I know it's just a color and it's not that deep, et cetera, et cetera. But pantone picking white as a color of the year during a time where white supremacy on the rise is so blank. All right. Then we have people comparing this to Sydney Sweeney's American Eagle Great Jeans ad. Like it was a double entendre. She was wearing. great genes from American Eagle, but also she was saying she had great genes, G-E-N-E-S, because she's pretty. She's pretty. But people took that as a sign of white supremacy.

Starting point is 00:54:18 You're not allowed to say if you have blonde hair and blue eyes that you have good genes, that you got them genetically. She clearly does have good genes. Like, she's beautiful. But if you're a white person, you can't say that. And you can't celebrate or even like the color white apparently because this sends an offensive message. That sounds interesting. interesting message. Sydney Sweeney has good genes vibes.

Starting point is 00:54:44 Is there like an explanation? Oh, capturing the cultural zeitgeist. To highlight how what is taking place in our macro culture at the moment in time is expressed through the language of color. To choose a color of the year, they sift through current cultural, political, and style references. Okay, Pantone. You're on our list. Okay.

Starting point is 00:55:07 So the Sydney Sweeney vibes, they say. Here's a feng shui practitioner. So designers and people in fashion, they are really looking to see this pantone color matching system. They named the colors like what the color of the air is going to be. Here's Satin. Hey, pantone. You're fired. You really chose white.

Starting point is 00:55:35 You chose white in these times? Mm-hmm. Okay. If you were just listening to that, She's burning her color swatches. And these color swatches that you get from Pantone are apparently like hundreds of dollars, okay? Here's someone else say it's giving conservative, SOT 11. Pantone's color of the year is a recession indicator.

Starting point is 00:56:03 Now, white symbolizes peace, but it also symbolizes a color that traditionally only wealthy people could wear. Also symbolizes purity, which in the United States tends to have nefarious undertones. It's giving conservative. Now, when there are recessions, people tend to go back. to traditional values or the way things were, despite the fact that liberal administrations tend to lead to booms in the economy. Oh my gosh. Well, a color were your walls, by the way. Your walls were white. All right. So people are upset about this. It's literally just a color. Okay? It's an inanimate color.

Starting point is 00:56:38 And the subliminal message is far more offensive than any supposed message that Pantone is communicating. The subliminal message that Pantone is communicating. The subliminal message message and all of these people is that it's not okay to be white, that being white or having white skin, because they're associating this with white skin, even though Pantone wasn't talking about skin color at all, that you need to be ashamed of that. That white, having white skin symbolizes something bad, that we need to reject the color of our skin. No, thank you. Like, no, thank you. Absolutely not. In this age of self-confidence and self-love, it's only white people who have to hate themselves or associate their skin color with the collective sins of people who lived

Starting point is 00:57:20 elsewhere at a different time? No. This is the same message as we heard in 2020. A message preached to white people of collective guilt and a message preached to black and brown people that denied even individual responsibility. So white people bear some guilt and responsibility that someone who kind of looked like them, who lived in the same general vicinity 200 years ago, that that was all of our fault. But a person, an individual with black or brown skin, who actually themselves goes into a gas station and loots it or breaks a TV at a furniture store in the name of racial justice, that person actually isn't even personally responsible for what they do because oh, riots are just the voice of the unheard. That was the message we heard in 2020. And I think most people,

Starting point is 00:58:16 it took a while and it took some courage and some gumption, ended up rejecting that because it's ridiculous, because it's stupid. It doesn't make any sense. It's completely unbiblical. That is not just. Justice is impartial. Justice is individual justice is direct. You don't carry the sins of someone who kind of look like you. You don't even carry the sins of your mom and dad. People say, oh, your ancestors this, your ancestors, that, I'm sorry? Like, have we taken DNA tasks? Just because someone kind of looked like you 200 years ago does not mean that they are your ancestors. Most likely your ancestors did not even own slaves, but even if they did own slaves, you don't bear responsibility or guilt for that. That's just how justice works. That's how biblical justice works. And that is supposed

Starting point is 00:58:59 to be how legal justice works. That is not how social justice works, however. Social justice is always trying to finagle different facts. factors that could contribute to someone's outcome so that everyone has equal outcomes. That was the, that was the drum that I beat over and over again in 2020, not just me, but lots of people, but that's something I focused on in 2020 because that idea was just ravaging the church. And I think the church has a lot more clarity when it comes to LGBTQ issues, but it's so scared to say true things when it comes to justice and race. Factually true things and biblically true things.

Starting point is 00:59:38 That is one where they're just like, oh, we'll just let BLM have that territory and we'll just kind of agree with it because we're scared. It's stupid and it's dangerous. And this idea that whiteness inherently is bad or something to be embarrassed of is so wrong. It's so wrong. The same God who providentially made my melanin count made someone else's melanin count a lot higher than mine. And we are both equally made in his image. shouldn't be radical. But of course, it is.

Starting point is 01:00:10 All right. So they had to respond to this, the Pantone Color Institute. They had to say something about why they chose this. But let me pause. Let me tell you about our last sponsor for the day.

Starting point is 01:00:21 And that is range leather. I'm so thankful for range leather. They make amazing gifts. If you are looking to give a gift for their related bro or their related girl in your life, then you need to go to rangeleather.com. When you use my link, range leather.com slash alley. You get 15% off all of their products. They've got wallets. They've got

Starting point is 01:00:42 belts. They've got custom hats. They've got jewelry. They've got bags. I love my range leather bags. I use them all the time. They're so sturdy, so classy looking. This stuff lasts lifetime. It is all handmade in Wyoming. This is another relatable, loving Christian America loving company that you want to support Kyle Bailey are awesome. So go to range leather.com.com. slash alley. You'll get that 15% off. That's ranged leather.com slash alley. Okay, so Latrice, Leahtrice, sorry if I mispronounce your name, Iceman. She's the executive director of Pantone Color Institute said the choice was about symbolizing a blank canvas. Vice President Lori Presbyn said skin tones did not factor into this at all. With peach fuzz and then with mocha moose,

Starting point is 01:01:30 people were weighing in and asking if this was about skin tones. And I think we were going, wow, really? Because for us, it's all about at such a basic level, what are people looking for that color looking for that color can hope to answer? So 2025's color of the year, I guess, was Panta, was a mocha moose? Was that right? And then 2024 was peach fuzz. And they say, no, they are not trying to say anything about race. They're not trying to talk about skin code at all. Like, it's not that. It's not that deep. I promise you, if you had done dark brown, if they had done a dark brown this year, no white person would have been like, really? Really? What kind of DEI statement are you trying to make? I would have said, yes, I love it. I agree with that because dark brown is in my color

Starting point is 01:02:21 season and I love wearing dark brown. Thank you so much, pantom. Actually, I probably would have never heard about it. I've never thought about what the color of the year is because no one is forcing you to use this color. I kind of agree with people who say that, okay, white is overdone in design and in fashion. For the past 10 years, it's been all about shiplap and all about having an all white house. And I do think that that trend is going away. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to be up in arms about this. It's just silly. There are some Bible verses to think about here. I thought about James and impartiality. This was, again, a passage that we talked about so much in 2020 because so many professing Christians who pushed social justice and these disparate

Starting point is 01:03:05 messages to black congregants and white congregants about the color of their skin and the responsibility that that bears or doesn't bear. James 3. 16 through 17, for where jealousy and selfish ambition exists, there will be disorder in every vile practice. But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial, and sincere. Romans 1.21 through 22, for although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their foolish hearts were darkened, claiming to be wise, they became fools. This is foolishness. When society suppresses the truth about God, even a simple color choice like pantone, serene white becomes proof of white supremacy in the minds

Starting point is 01:03:55 of critics, revealing how futile darkened their reasoning becomes. Um, even in mundane things, they can bring it to the level of the absurd because their mind has been given over to depravity. Proverbs 18, too, a fool takes no pleasure and understanding, but only in expressing his opinion. Oh man, that is a word for the day. You shouldn't have to say that it is totally fine and beautiful and just as in the realm of the amongal. go day to have white skin as it is to have any other color skin. It's not a symbol of anything nefarious or malicious. How dare anyone imply that to tell a child that they were born in their wrong body or that their skin color symbolizes something that is inherently evil, whether you're

Starting point is 01:04:52 brown or black or white or anywhere along that spectrum is so incredibly wrong. The fact that Christians play around with this stuff and that they will either flirt with it or outright show this kind of anti-white hatred is just really gross. It is a sign of an idol in their own heart that they just need to ask the Lord to rid them off. That's the truth of it. This is such a silly controversy, but the fact that it's a controversy speaks to something like really wrong. I think in the American heart, in the Western heart, and in some Christian. part. Like, if you have a negative reaction when you see a color that God created in his earth, then like it's time for some self-reflection, some prayer, some accountability and repentance.

Starting point is 01:05:42 All right. We will be back on Wednesday with a theology episode that you are going to love. See you guys back here then.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1276 | TPUSA Fact-Checks Candace Owens. Are Things About to Get Ugly?

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