Ep 1280 | The 'Matthew 18' Myth & 'Relatable' Wrapped
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00:46That's fellowship homelones.com slash alley, term supply, see site for details, fellowship home loans,mortgage lending by the book, nationwide mortgage bankers, DBA Fellowship Home Loans,equal housing lender, NMLS, number 819382.What does Matthew 18 really say about biblical reconciliation and public rebuke?Is that passage being misused?We will take a look at it today.We will also be looking at a recap, the highlights of everything that has happened in 2025.It has been a huge year, and we will talk specifically about what God is up to, what we as Christians need to be looking for.
01:25You're going to enjoy this episode brought to you by Friends of Good Ranchers.Go to Go to Go to Go to Ranchers.com.Use code alley at checkout. That's good ranchers.com code alley.Hey guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far.Well, it is almost Christmas. And you know what I forgot to tell you at the beginning of the episode on Monday?Because I had my dad there as a co-host, so it kind of threw me off.The God's eternal plan of redemption is going off without a hitch. Breaking news, news flash, stop the presses.That truth is the truest truth that's out there. And it is the truth that does not make
02:08headlines, but it is the truth that is reverberating underneath the other truth.And underneath the lies and underneath the chaos and underneath the noise, that is what isalways truly going on. So if you're searching for something beyond what the media tells you,if you are exhausted by what goes viral on social media and trying to keep up with everythingthat's going on, if you are always looking for the real truth underneath what is being toldto you, that is it. Open up your Bible and you will see it. That underneath everything that theworld is telling you important, that that is the most important. That God's eternal plan of redemptionis humming along perfectly in rhythm, keeping perfect time with exactly what his will is at every
03:03given moment. That nothing is ever throwing him off. Nothing is. Nothing.has ever taken him aback. Nothing has ever surprised God. Nothing has ever made him think,how am I going to figure this out, or fix this, or clean up this mess.2025 brought a lot of surprises. I would not want to repeat it. There were some really high points.We'll get into that today and some really low points, really, really low points for all of ourlives for our country. I cannot predict what 2026 will bring. We talked about future election cycleson Monday and how we should think about all of that. Obviously, that is very important to startthinking about planning for the future. But the truth is, we don't know what the next second holds.
03:55We certainly don't know what the next year holds. But what we can hold fast to, what we canground our feet in is that Jesus Christ wins, that he is king, that he rules over all of it,that every single day of our lives were planned for us before any of them came to be.That's what Psalm 139 tells us.God's eternal plan of redemption is always going off without a hitch.And I'm thankful for that.Nothing happens accidentally or arbitrarily.you are placed right now on this tiny speck of eternity on this small plot of the universe by a God
04:35who does nothing accidentally, nothing flippantly. And Christmas is like really the embodiment of that.The word made flesh who dwelt among us, Emmanuel, God with us, who shows that God'seternal plan of redemption, yes, it is always going off without a hitch, but it doesn't alwaysalways show up exactly how we think it's going to. Certainly when the Jewish people were looking forMessiah, they were expecting a soldier, a warrior, a king, someone who looked strong like royalty,but isn't that just like God? To defy the odds, actually not only that, but to stack the oddsagainst himself just so he can tear them down, to turn on its head the wisdom of the wise,and to flip the worldly economy and the worldly thinking about what's important and what's powerful
05:31and what salvation should look like on its head just so he can show us over and over again,it's me.It's my strength.It's my glory.It's my salvation.It's not you.Like everything about Christianity is so distinct and so different and so backwards from how the world defines strength.how the world defines fulfillment and satisfaction and success and how to be saved and how to be like God,
06:04every other religion, and the world itself, atheism will give you a structure for how to be a goodperson and how to earn it and how to make sure that you've made yourself good enough for the higherpower, whatever it may be, so that they'll accept you, so that they'll like you, so that you canget up to the level that you want to get to, whether it's ascending to some different, you know,internal plain via transcendental meditation or whether it's a list of rules that you have to follow.Christianity is distinct. Not only in that, the gospel says that you can't save yourself,that you're actually dead in your sin. That's what Ephesians 2 says. A dead person can't save themselves,they can't fix themselves up, they can't clean themselves of the stench of the decay of
06:52their flesh. And we had to be made alive by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. We had to be givena free gift of salvation that we could not earn so we can't boast in it. That's all Ephesians 2, 1 through 10.Not only is Christianity and distinct in that it says you are completely helpless to saveyourself or even helped yourself. So God had to come down and save you. But he didn't come downand save you like a warrior or like a prince or a king or anything that we might have expected.No, you are so helpless that God came down to save you in the form of first an embryo,then an unborn child, and then a baby, and not a baby in a castle,not a baby born to what we think of as a royal family,
07:37but a baby born in a stable among manure and hay to lowly Jewish parents.How incredible is God?and through that gift of Jesus Christ in an unexpected place, in an unexpected way, we get the free gift of salvation.Like the simpleness, the simplicity, and the meagerness, if you will, of Jesus's birth.Like we look at that and that is a symbol of our salvation or the Godman who came to save us,that should show us how much even more helpless we are spiritually.How incredible it is.How much do we learn about God that God is so powerful that he doesn't need to save us
08:30in the way the world describes salvation or strength or power or bravery.Now one day Jesus is coming back in a very different way.His first advent, he came as a baby, which I think there's so much to learn from thatabout the heart of God, how he does things, but also just his care for children inside thewomb that Jesus came as a newborn, was heralded by the unborn kicks of John the Baptist,against the protestations of his disciples, said, let the little children come to me for such asthese belong the kingdom of heaven, against the backdrop of a society of a culture who denigratedchildren on the level of animals and barbarians sold them into sex.
09:14trafficking, laid them on hills called exposure hills where they were left there to die by the elementsor torn apart by wild animals. That was the backdrop against this Jesus, this God man, this kingcame as a baby. That's amazing. We see that and then we just also see who God is and what he caresabout and how he does things. But then also we remember that he will come back as a king, as thatthat mighty warrior with a sword coming out of his mouth and a tattoo on his thigh and riding inon a horse like it's hard to imagine it's hard to picture but one day that internal desire that wehave for all things to be made right for the bad guy to lose finally and for the little guythe weak and the actually truly oppressed to be lifted up for the person who takes advantage of
10:11people, for those who do evil, who mock God, for them to be destroyed, like that real desirethat we have will be satisfied. It will be satisfied. So often I think we look at the state of theworld and we think, well, why isn't God doing something? But he promises to do something and he willdo something ultimately about all the evil that goes on in the world and he will rule forever and ever.And we're reminded of that at Christmas, all of this that comes from the first Advent.We have a different, of course, celebration at Easter when he sacrificed himself on the cross on our behalf and then defeated death, rose again three days later.But this Christmas, and really every day and every holiday, we are reminded that God's victory is sure, even when things feel very chaotic.You guys know if you've been listening for any amount of time.
11:11I love Psalm 37.I read it this morning because I needed to be reminded of it.I'll just be honest.Like this episode is just as much for me as it is for y'all.Me saying everything that I just said at the beginning of every Monday episode,almost every Monday episode.And certainly many episodes for a very long time.I've been doing this podcast since 2018.
11:36Probably been saying that phrase.that we came up with, which is on a mug over there, but I don't have the mug right in front of mesince, gosh, probably five years. It's just as much for me. Sorry, I have a cold right now,but because I just feel kind of like down and not anything personal, just the state of the world,you know, and sometimes it really doesn't get to me right now. It is state of American politics,culture, it just feels not great. It feels not great. It doesn't feel real. Yeah, it's tough.But I just remember Psalm 37, fret not yourself because of evil doers. Be not envious of wrongdoers.That right there is an entire word that we could just rest on. For they will soon fade like the grass and
12:27wither like the green herb. So what are we to do? Trust in the Lord and do good, dwell in the land,to befriend faithfulness.Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart.Now if you're delighting yourself in the Lord, the desires of your heart will align with hisdesires and your desire will be his will.Your desire will be his glory and he is faithful to give you those things.Now, we used to do, we just haven't done it in a while because I feel like we kind of wentthrough most, if not all of the most misused verses that used to be a series that we would do.
13:02And one of the verses that we did is Psalm 374, delight yourself and Lord, he will give you the desiresof your heart. I heard that a lot growing up that if you really want to be married and you reallywant to have kids, then God will do that for you. But that's not the correct interpretation ofthat verse, of course, because there's going to be a lot of disappointments in this life, a lot ofthings that we want that we don't get. That's life. We don't, we live in a post-fall world. We live,you know, east of Eden. And one day we will have all of the desires that we truly want in Christbecause we will be with him forever and ever if we are indeed Christians. In heaven,when he comes back, whichever one comes first, goodwill win. It will triumph and there will be
13:55no more sin or sadness or sickness or sorrow. And that is our hope. Not that God is always going togive us everything that we want. All right, I want to get into another passage that I think isvery often misused. And this is Matthew 18. I've seen a lot. I see this a lot just in general,but especially over the past few days. Matthew 18 as a model for reconciliation between people,I think it is very often not even read at all. And we read things into that passage that it is not.So this is a passage about what believers should do when one has sinned against another.And so let's just read the passage and see what it actually says because people apply this to public rebuke in general or public debate or disagreement in general.And I think that's a misapplication.
14:46And I think it's important to talk about that.So anyway, just wanted to start off the show with some encouragement.A Merry Christmas because that is what Christmas is all about.Preach that to yourself.Preach that to your kids.tell that to the people in your life because that is what matters and that is where our hopeand our joy really comes from regardless of our circumstances. But before I get into the mostmisused passage of Matthew 18, I want to pause and tell you about our first sponsor for the day.
15:14This is a new sponsor and I'm super excited about it. They just shipped me the product and soI'm going to taste it and use it and tell you what I think. This is called the Wholesome Company andthey have a new product called Repreve. So this is a drink mix that is formulated to help yourelease stress. And actually Chief Relaterbrough was just drinking it himself. He said that he reallylikes it, that it tastes good. It is filled with research backed ingredients such as L-thianine,GABA, G-A-G-A-Tart cherry extract and magnesium. I'm familiar with all of those ingredients.And so I know for sure that they can help you relax and help your body andmind find relief if you feel especially uptight and anxious, especially around Christmas time,
16:00the new year. Maybe you're like me and you see the new year as a time to refresh and restartand you find yourself wanting to clean all of your rooms and clean out your closet and clean outthe pantry and refrigerator. And that could stress you out. They're all good things.That could stress you out. You want to be calm. And this can just help you by giving you thenutrients that your body uses and your body needs to just relax. So try.it out. It's wholesome is better.com. Holesome is better.com. Use code alley for 20% off your order. Get out of fight or flight mode. Just be able to focus on what you need to focus on in a peaceful way. Holesome is better.com code alley.Okay, let's talk about Matthew 18 because I see a lot that you shouldn't, you know, someone shouldn't say this about someone or someone shouldn't have any kind of public disagreement because of Matthew 18.And I just want to say according to the Bible, not according to Allie's opinion, what Matthew 18 actually says because this is a guide from our Lord Jesus, not from Allie's way of doing things.
17:11And so let's take a look at what it is.This is so often used as kind of a way to say that all conflict between anyone should be handled in private.And I do believe that there is prudence in handling some matters in private.But this particular passage, there could be various reasons for handling something in private.I think that's totally fine.But this particular passage does not mean that all correction or all rebuttal or all debate or all rebuke must be done in private.So this is a passage, Matthew 18, 15 through 20, and Jesus is telling people how to live.If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
17:55If he listens to you, you have gained a brother.But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church.And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile oror a tax collector, so an outsider, and then we could keep going. But that's really the passage.So it's really not through 20. It's really through 17. That's the passage that is most relevantthat I want to focus on today. So I just want to make some observations. And this is how I reallylike to read the Bible. This is how I started out reading the Bible for my own on my own when I was in high
18:37school. People ask me a lot. How should I read the Bible? How should I start? I love answering thatquestion. I say get an ESV study Bible. That's my favorite form of Bible. You don't have to get an ESV studyBible. There are some other translations that are good. If you're unfamiliar with translations,so ESV, English standard version, there's NASB, there's NIV, there's KJV, and some are better thanothers depending upon how exact the translation is. So the reason I like ESV, because it is a word for wordtranslation from the original Greek in Hebrew. And so it is just more exact. NIV is a thought forthought translation from the original Greek in Hebrew, which means it's less exact, but it's easier to read.I think that different versions can be okay for different people in different stages of life.
19:31I think NIV is great for a lot of people, including great for kids. I'm not saying that it's only good forkids. But for me, it's a little less exact and all the study Bibles are a little different. Thecommentary in any study Bible is not inerrant. It's not infallible. They are the thoughts of people,but they are doing the very best they can with biblical scholarship and history and culturalcontext to bring meaning to the text. So you can understand why is Jesus saying this? What is going onhere? To whom is he speaking? Things like that. So that's just a little aside. If you're new tothe Bible, encourage you to get an ESV study Bible. You can get it on Amazon. I've been able toto partner with multiple ministries this year. And because of their generosity, we have given away,
20:18I think, close to 5,000 Bibles just this fall. And just the eagerness with which this audience,a lot of you, new audience members, have snatched up those free Bibles because I really tried toencourage only people who can't afford a Bible or who don't have a Bible to get them has justbeen incredible and that alone has been extremely encouraging to me. Start in the book of John.That's where I say to start. You don't have to understand everything, but just read it and read alittle bit every day. If you really want to slow down and try to understand it, this is what I do.I will start with a verse and then I will just do some observations of the words used, for example,and say, okay, what does this mean? Can I put this in synonymous terms? Can I say this in a
21:05different way that helps me better understand. Can I think of an analogy that helps me understandwhat this is? Again, that's not an infallible interpretation of the Bible. That's just helping myparticular brain understand. So that's kind of what I'm going to do here. It's just do some basicobservation of what this passage actually does say versus what it doesn't say. Okay, so number oneobservation that I see in here between two or more fellow believers. So quote, your brother,if your brother sins against you, Jesus said.So this is between believers.This is not between any person.
21:41It's not about any two people or any three people.When a non-Christian has sinned against you,private confrontation may still be the best way to go,but that is not what this passage is talking about.This passage is talking about believers within the church.Okay, so that's first observation.Number two, second observation is this is about interpersonalsin. I get this from the quote against you. So if your brother sins against you. So this is not about
22:10someone just hurting your feelings, but an actual sin. And we define sin as missing the mark that Godhas put in front of us in his word. So the standards that he has set for right and wrong in hisword. And this is not about sin in general. This is not about someone sinning and you having thebiblical obligation then to go to them privately. Again, that may be prudent, but that is not what thispassage is about. This is sin against you specifically. This is not about someone preaching falsedoctrine. This is about a fellow believer sinning against you. They slided you. They treated youunfairly. They were unkind to you according to the Bible standards of good conduct. That is what thissays, and in that case, you go to this person directly. Third observation that I see,
23:03it should be private at first. So just between you by yourselves, no witnesses should be present.So preserving the reputations and privacy. This can curtail any gossip or slander or innuendo orexaggeration. You're not bringing anyone else into it. You go to them in private first. This is allsuch a good reminder for all of us. I think all of us at some point have like wiggled on theseon these steps that Jesus is saying to take.Fourth observation, after that, if that doesn't work,if you go to this person privately without talking to anyone elseor bringing anyone else along, number four,
23:39you take two to three witnesses.Two to three, this is specific.It harkens back to the Old Testament when in the court of law.This is not talking about a court of law.But in the court of law,it was required to have two or three eyewitnesses to convict.That is where we get so much inspirationof our due process here in the United States.
23:57today that the accused also has rights, not just the accuser. So in this case, in this interpersonaldispute between believers, you take two to three witnesses. That also having two to three witnesses,it helps with fairness and orderliness. One person could just be convinced by the aggrieved partyand be biased, but more than two or three people, like four or five people that can just bechaotic in a mess. Okay. Number five, fifth observation, you haveto bring evidence. So there must be proof of this charge that you have against this person that theysend. It indicates that we're not talking about just hurt feelings, but a sin that can beobjectively proven. Number six, six observation. If that doesn't work, you take it to the church.
24:44You bring more believers into the conflict to use their reasonableness and authority to try topersuade that person into repentance. That's what the hope is. The hope is repentance. The hope isn'tjust let bygones be bygones. The hope is repentance and the hope is restoration. That is wheretrue peace comes from. True peace, we see in this passage, doesn't come through compromise.It does not come through pretending that sin is not sin or a lie is not a lie. But a dispute betweentwo believers can only be resolved when the sinner in that party repents of their sin andsubmits to the reasonableness of fellow believers. And then the seventh observation, the lastobservation I see in this passage is that if this person refuses all of these things, private
25:31confrontation, confrontation with witnesses, confrontation with the church, then you have tocast that person out.This is church discipline.So that person can no longer be, at least for the time being, a part of that local bodyof Christ, that church.And so the argument actually could be made that this passage is not even just talking abouttwo believers in general, but two members of the same church.body since this process would be hard to do and enforce between two people from two
26:00different churches. And so that is what this is about. It's not about just any two peopledisagreeing about something. Or it is not prohibiting public rebuke or publicly correctinga lie or a public confrontation because sometimes those things are necessary. Sometimesthose things are necessary among Christians actually. And they are very,often necessary outside of the church. So first, we can look at Galatians 2 as evidence for this.Galatians 2 11 through 14. So this is Paul publicly opposing Peter. But when Seifis,that's Peter, came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face because he stood condemned.For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles. But when they came,
26:54he drew back and separated himself during the circumcision party. He goes on and talks about hisfear and hypocrisy. So not only did he confront him to his face and maybe other people were around there,but also like he is talking about that now. He is using that public rebuke as a lesson for thesebelievers, be like, hey, don't be like Peter in this regard. And I think that Paul loved Peter as abrother in Christ, but public rebuke can actually be instructive for everyone else. Because in this case,it wasn't Peter sinning against Paul interpersonally.It was a sin in general that had to be called out for the building up of the body of Christ.And of course, had to be done in love because Christians are always called to do things in love.
27:34But love doesn't always mean silence and complacence and fear and just trying to appease that person and be nice to that person.So there's a distinction there.And then we've got 1st Corinthians 511.But now I am writing to you not to associate.okay so we're not supposed to associate and like have this private confrontation with these kind of peoplebut now i'm writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother okay so someone whocalls themselves a christian if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed is an idolater or revilerso saying malicious and very often untrue things about someone a drunkard or a swindler
28:13not even to eat with such a one so we're not talking about nonbelievers like this but people whocall themselves Christians who commit idolatry, reviling, or drunkards, swindlers, you're notsupposed to associate with those people. Okay. Second Timothy 3-1 through 7, but understand this,that in the last days, there will come times of difficulty for people will be lovers of self,lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful,unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power.
28:52Avoid such people.So some people we are just supposed to avoid.For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women,burdened with sins and led astray by various passions,always learning, and never able to arrive at a knowledge of truth.And then we have Ephesians 5, 6 through 8.Let no one deceive you with empty words,for because of these things, the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedient,
29:18therefore do not become partners with them for at one time you are darkness but now you are light in thelord walk as children of light for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and trueand try to discern what is pleasing to the lord so we are not always obligated to associatewith people and we are not bound by the same instruction in matthew 18 with unbelieversor with people who are just generally committing sins as we are toa fellow believer within the body of Christ who has sinned against us. And so that is why I thinkthat, you know, when I see people correcting false teaching or saying this person said this and thatwas wrong, I don't think it's wrong. As long as you never go into insults and you're never
30:05reviling them. You're not lying about them, but you're focusing on the substance of what they're sayingor maybe you disagree with their methods. Like I think that is good and totally fine. I don't thinkthat we are obligated to necessarily go to that person first. Again, you might want to.That might be like a good route to take, but that's not what Matthew 18 means.So anyway, I just thought that that was an important thing for me to remember and for us allto remember. I think sometimes that is like used as a tool to silence people talking aboutthings that are wrong. Is Matthew 18, Matthew 18, but that's not exactly what Jesus meant bythat. All right. Let's shift gears just a little bit. Let me tell you about our next sponsor first.
30:43and that is good ranchers. So thankful for good ranchers. You guys know we've been relying on them forall American meat and the Stucky home for about five years now. We always have a freezer full ofbetter than organic chicken, craft beef, all different cuts of steak. I mean, I think that we'reprobably making like a sheet of chicken breast every day because it's such a good source of protein.You can put it in anything. You can make anything out of it. Our kids will eat it. They love the seed oil freechicken nuggets too. And you, if you're a seafood person, if you like shrimp and scallops andsalmon and cod and halibut. They've got all of that, all from American farms and ranches.That can be so hard to find when you go to the grocery store. You don't know where that meat is
31:22from. Even if it says made in the U.S., it might just be packaged in the U.S., which is crazy.So give the gift of all-American meat either to yourself, your family, a family member.Subscribe to Good Ranchers. You'll get a free hat-on of meat for life. That's so amazing.That meat will show up Andriyes to your front door every month. Use my code Allie.You'll get an extra $40 off. Good Ranchers.com code alley okay i thought that we would go down a little trip um or take a little trip downmemory lane and just kind of go through some of the top stories from 2025 because i mean thepast few months have felt like a whole year have they not like i think about the tragic day on
32:09september 10th and i will never forget that day we'll talk about it a little bit more in asecond. And I think probably to all of us, it's those three months. I mean, they felt like,they felt like 10 years, honestly. And I imagine even more so, so much more so to the people inCharlie's life. But it's just been a lot. It has been so much over the past few months,not only that, but so many other things as well. But we forget that Donald Trump justbecame president this year. Like that is so hard to believe. It's so hard to believe. Solet's go back to January for a second. Let's put up Donald J. Trump getting sworn in. So the wholefamily and I, we were in D.C. for the inauguration. We went to an inaugural ball, but we did not go to
32:58the inauguration. We got to watch it. And it was an incredible time to be there. It was so, so cold.Like, it was so cold. I don't even know how you stand it. If you live in a cold.place like that. But it was very cool to be in D.C. And it was, do you remember, I don't know if we havethis clip. I just thought of it, so I didn't even ask my team to get it. But do you rememberCarrie Underwood singing? Was it great as thy faithfulness? I think it was Acapella.And because she was supposed to have a background track and it didn't play. Okay, we'll,we'll find it and we'll play it now.You know the words help me out here.
33:50For purple mountain mat.All right.So that was beautiful.Our girl Carrie Underwood, just amazing.And you'll remember, okay, I also didn't tell my team I was going to do this.So I'm sorry about this.And this is going to make it a little confusing.But it just makes sense to do this.
34:33So this was one of the biggest events of, I mean, maybe, no, not the biggest event of the year.I would say one of the biggest events of the year.I would say Charlie Kirk's assassination was the biggest event of the year.But obviously a very big event.I mean, we could have a whole time like going back and thinking about like Trump's victory and how unexpected that was.But this was also, we were tracking like what were our most popular episodes from this year?And that one totally unexpectedly where we talked about Trump not putting his hand on the Bible when he gave.the oath or when he was sworn in was our by far the most popular episode both on listening
35:15and on YouTube here it is.I don't think that there's any significance there because again it's not necessarily a ruleand the fact that they provided their own family Bible means that they did care about that,that it was important to them, even if it was just symbolic.I mean, they thought about that.They brought the Bible.if they didn't care at all, they wouldn't have provided a family Bible.So anyway, that was a fun episode to do because you could see in the background.
35:43You can see the Washington monument behind me.And you'll remember that was a whole thing.That was a whole thing where he didn't put his hand on the Bible.Do I prefer politicians to put their hand on the Bible?Yes, of course.I prefer politicians to put their hand on the Bible.We could also do an entire recap of Trump's first year of presidency,the highs and lows. I think there have been highs and there have been lows. The thing that has
36:07made headlines the most has surely been his immigration policies. And I am just, I'm staunch when itcomes to immigration. And if you need to know how to think about immigration or if you want theconservative perspective and what I believe to be the biblical perspective on strong borders and evendeportations and just the real risk that is involved with mass migration and illegal immigration,than read toxic empathy.My book, Toxic Empathy came out last year.And I really, I just do.I encourage you to get it.
36:40I'm not even trying to sell the book.If I had more books to just send you, I would.But you should get the book.Get it for yourself.Get it for someone in your life.And even if you just read the immigration chapter,it would be absolutely worth your while.Because there's a lot of manipulation,
36:56empathy extortion when it comes to the immigration issue.And Trump is right on immigration.And he should be even strong.on it. So that happened in, at the beginning of, at the beginning of the year. So and then the secondthing that happened. And then we got the first American Pope. I mean, my timeline in my headis like completely off. That happened over, over the summer when Pope Francis's replacement becamePope Leo and we had a lot of people kind of freak out a little bit on us because we had MichaelKnowles on the show and I didn't have a debate with Michael Knowles on the show and people were like,
37:45wow, what does Allie even think about Catholicism anymore? Because I've just been so reticentabout that. I've been so private. No one knows. Is she a Protestant? No, it's so hard to find out.Maybe you can go back and look at my episodes celebrating Martin Luther to find out.But yeah, that's caused some controversy because I have Catholics on and I'm not always there todebate Catholics.I have friends that are Catholic that I appreciate so much.And I've also done a lot of debates about Catholicism versus Protestantism.But the point in covering that is that it's a really important moment.
38:18It's a really important historical moment, not just in the Catholic Church, but really in the West in general.and it does seem to me like unfortunately Pope Leo has some progressive views on some things that I would call unbiblical views on some things that I don't love that I don't appreciate.I mean, of course, Catholic versus Protestant, but I'm talking about things like immigration and Islam and things like that.And, you know, what else is new?Protesting the Pope.It's kind of what we do.It's in the name.but that was a very significant moment.
38:55And then coming over to the Protestant side,we lost some of the most important figures in Protestantism.We lost John McArthur.John McArthur, one of my favorite Bible teachers.I don't know if we have the clip right now,but there's a clip that will play when we have it of Charlie and Italking on his show about, he asked me who the best Bible teacher is,And he was like, I think I know what you're going to say.
39:25And then I said John McArthur, of course.And then we talked about why that is.But we put together this montage after Charlie died of the conversation that I had and then showing John McArthur and Charlie sharing the gospel here that is.Who is the greatest Bible teacher alive today?I was going to see John McArthur.Yes.He's the man.What made him so?
39:46And it's important, right?Because we should articulate like, why is he a legend?Yeah.And how do we get more of this next generation of being that mold?Unafraid.That's the thing I think of.Unafraid.I don't know if you know this, but everyone dies.
40:00It's important to remind yourself with that.That you face God, the judge, and he's in a list everything you did wrong in your life.For those of you that have not given your life to Christ, I could tell you it is the mostfreeing, liberating thing that a human being can possibly do.The most important thing that you can do.There's no middle ground.You either embrace Jesus as Savior or Lord.or you don't. One promises heaven, the other promises hell. No middle ground. So John McArthur,
40:29an amazing expositor. He passed away in July at the age of 86. We had had him on the show a coupletimes. His books, the gospel according to Jesus, gospel according to Matthew, et cetera. So good.He was the pastor of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California since 1969. That is such a longfaithful ministry, so incredible. And then we also lost our friend Vody Baccombe, whom we've had on the showseveral times. That was completely unexpected. It was known that John MacArthur, being 86, was goingto die. Vody Baccombe while he had had some health and heart issues. That was unexpected because hewas just 56. And he passed away just a couple of weeks after Charlie, September 25th,he leaves behind a wife, and I believe eight children, grandchildren as well. He had just
41:20just moved over to the states from Africa.And I'll play you this clip about his death.You are going to hear a rumor one daythat Vody Walken is no more.Don't you believe it?Don't you believe it?Don't you believe it?Because though I die, I will rise with Christ.
41:43It will not be the end of me.Because Christ is raised.And I too will be.be raised with Christ. That is why he is called the firstborn from the dead. Folks, you don't talkabout a firstborn unless there's others who are born after him. Don't you pity me. You pity the one whowants to hold on to Jesus without holding on to the resurrection. You pity the one who has absolutelyno hope because they have no resurrected Christ. And then we also lost, we lost Phil Robertson,And Phil Robertson, so we're kind of going out of order here, but he died on Sunday, May 25th.
42:27Love Phil Robertson.He was on the show several times.I was on their show several times.He's so funny.He was so funny.I was like very pregnant the first time I met him.And he did not say anything, which was like very strange most people, especially like oldermen comment when women are pregnant.
42:47But he told me a story later saying that he made that mistake.one time where he went up to a family member and said, like, I didn't know you were expectingand she wasn't expecting. So he never made that mistake again, but he was so serious about theBible, and I appreciated that so much. And here he is describing sharing the gospel with Trump,saw 11. I said, there's a cross after that, Trump. I said, there's a cross. Jesus died on thecross. I said, for the sins of the world, I said, you do have sins, don't you?What did he say?And he said, a lot of them.
43:22I said, me too.So I told him, I said, I have a lot too.I said, they put him in a tomb.I said, Trump, whatever happens, I said, we're the same age.We're identical age.I said, we don't have that long.We're in our 70s.I said, Trump, we're going to die.
43:40And you're going to go six feet under and so am I.Right?He said, no doubt about it.I said, he was.was resurrected from the dead. I said, you can live beyond the grave. I said, it's the greatestthing that ever happened for the human race. He was so great. James Dobson also passed away. He passedaway August 21st, 2025 at the age of 89. And I mean, this is like just a generation offaithful evangelical
44:16Protestant pastors and leaders that we lostand their legacy lives onand God ordained all of their daysknew exactly when they were going to passbut it's still sad for all of usbut especially their familiesand it's okay for us to be sadeven though they've moved on to a much better place
44:35and they're in heaven with their Saviorit's okay for us to be sad even Jesus wept when Lazarus diedand not only did Jesus know he was moving onto a better placebut Jesus knew he was about to raise him from the dead moments later.And he still wept with compassion and sadness and probably just the reality of the sadness of the existence of death because of sin.So lost so many people.And then of course we lost our friend Charlie Kirk.
44:59And we'll get into that in just a second.But let me pause and tell you about our next sponsor.It's Shopify.Thankful for Shopify.They make selling your items really easy.And if you are a business owner and you're selling your art.or you're selling merchandise or you're selling any products.You want that part to be really easy.
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46:09Okay.I'm going to try not to like get down into the nitty gritty about this,about Charlie Kirk passing because I've talked so much about it so many times.But I mean, like I said earlier, I will just never forget that day.And if you want to go back and watch my tribute to Charlie or watch some of the episodesthat we did about revival or his memorial, that I really encourage you to.I just think that there's a lot of encouragement in those first episodes and in those first momentswhen it was so dark and so sad and so scary and so bleak. But at the same time, like we all felt
46:56this rumbling of hope and of revival. And I still feel that. And I still know that it's happening.Not only, yes, God's eternal plan of redemption. But you know, God has been reallykind to show me twice in the past few days that he is up to something. He's always up tosomething, but this turning to him, this renewed interest in him that we all saw at Charlie'sMemorial that we all saw on college campuses, like it's still, it is happening. It seems like thelove of many has grown cold really fast. Like we so quickly went from this unified moment at thememorial to conspiracies, to accusations, to slander, to gossip, to division, to, I think,unjustified suspension and anger and bitterness, in rivalry and deceit and so much. And it just felt like,
47:58hang on, like, what is the future going to hold? And I don't know. Like, I can't, I can't tell you.I'm not like a, I don't know what the political future is going to hold.I don't know the future of the right.I don't know the future of activist organizations.I don't know the future of other like influencers and their campaigns.I don't know what that future holds.But as I was very demoralized and discouraged over the past few days, God gave me twoconversations.
48:25Like he just orchestrated these incredible conversations that encouraged me.And the first one, I talked to someone who used to work on this show.and when he worked on this show a few years ago,he was an atheist and he didn't believe in God and we just,I won't get into the details of the conversation,but he recently shared that he's been reading his Bible and going to churchand that his faith has just been restored to him in Christ.And I just thought about like how God works and how God uses each of us
48:58in small ways to accomplish his purpose, to seek and save the loss.He's going to stop at nothing to go seek that lost sheep.And he's going to use so many in his flock to do that.And you're going to be so encouraged by Friday's episode with John Cooper of Skillet andhis testimony of how God used his life in that way and how God used his ministry in that way,that when it seems like God is up to one thing, he's doing 10 million things.And like when we get to the other side of eternity, we are going to see this incredible,complex interwoven tapestry of all of these little unseen and unsung moments in the lives of believers
49:36that culminated in someone's salvation and angels rejoicing because of that. And I saw that happeningso much in the wake of Charlie's death. And then it just seemed like everything got dark andconfusing. But then the light peeks through in these conversations when I talk to someone and I'm like,God got you. And he used all of these things, things that I didn't see, things that I didn't know,but maybe God allowed me to play a small part in that to bring you to himself.Praise God.Praise God.And then I had another conversation this morning with someone whose family member had
50:12walked away from the church, was completely callous towards Christianity, was notinterested in it at all.And then over the past few months, I don't know if it's directly because of whathappened to Charlie or what he's seen on social media.But almost randomly, it seems, has done a total about face.Once to read the Bible, has bought all of these apologies.genetics books, went to a solid church in the area over the weekend. And the person who I was talkingto, this family member was like, I am shocked. I would have never thought this was going to happen.
50:44And it just was a sweet reminder that God is doing what he's always done. He is bringing beauty outof ashes. Like he is a God of redemption. And what Satan means for evil, God means for good. And I don'tjust mean Charlie's assassination, but some of the ugliness that has happened after, God is evenworking through and despite all of that to bring glory to himself because that's what he does.He will stop at nothing to bring glory to himself. So I want to recalibrate and refocus my eyes on,okay, I want to be a part of that story, the stories underneath the story, the stories of peopleturning back to faith. So whatever I can do to point people towards scripture, to give you a Bible,to point people towards a solid church, to point you towards a solid pastor in your area,
51:30to encourage you to pray and to plug into a body of believers that will hold you accountable,to get to know the living God who made you and loves you.Whatever small part I can play and making heaven crowded, as Charlie used to say,like, I want to do that.And I've gotten this question so many times, and I always rebuff this question because I don't like this question.I understand why it's being asked, but I don't like it by journalists.they'll say, do you see yourself as like stepping into a place like Charlie did? And I'm not the onlyperson that's been asked. A ton of people in the conservative move that have been asked that.
52:04And I'm like, I have such a small piece of this pie over here that focuses on Christianity,that focuses on Christian women. And yes, politics is a part of that. Politics matter because policymatters, because people matter. But I'm focusing on that. Like I want to give those women by the grace of God ascourage, as much clarity as I possibly can. Like the activism, the coalition building, the like campustouring, all of that is so important. And that is for someone out there that God has ordained for that.And truly, Charlie was an anomaly. He did the role of like 40 different people. And it'll probablytake like 40 of us to even try to make up for some of the things that he was doing. But I like,I don't know what the future is there. I have to bring my eyes down to the micro.
52:54What's going on with the people in my life?Like what's going on with the people right in front of me?And that's what I want to encourage you to.I'm not going to say, you've got to get off social media.Don't listen to a podcast.Don't watch the news.I'm not saying that.I'm just saying sometimes we have to recalibrate and refocus and put our eyes right here.
53:14Who is in front of you that needs the gospel?What story is God writing in your kids' lives?At home, in your neighborhood, in your marriage.don't neglect those things for the things that are going on out in the world.Those things are important, but they're not more important than what's going on in your homeand your life and your friends and your church.In fact, I think sometimes the big things can be a distraction from the little thingsbecause the little things is where a lot of our like our repentance needs to happen and healing
53:44needs to happen and sanctification needs to happen.And those things are hard and they hurt.And so I just want us to be careful.I just want us to maybe just refocus a little bit going into the new year.And honestly, a lot of what I've seen about like Charlie's new book and Sabbath has reallyconvicted me about that.And the need to weekly and consistently have the self-control.Self-control is a very important trait to me.
54:10Like it's important to God, but it's just like one that I really always like aspire to have.And I have not had a self-control to have a weekly 24-hour Sabbath.And that is something I say to my shame. And it's probably the cause of sometimes me realizing,oh, wait, all of this stuff is happening. But this person right here needs to hear the gospel.And so I was just thinking about that. And I want to make sure that we focus on that. And I think thatis a way of carrying on his legacy. God is sometimes calling us to big public things to have a platformand a microphone. I think that's really important that we steward that well if we're called to that.he might also be calling us to big things that are unseen and unsung.
54:56Charlie's Memorial really was a special moment.And I just want to highlight one one moment that I thought was really, really good there.I loved Marco Rubio's speech.I love J.D. Vance's speech.But this was probably my favorite, Sot 15.Now, I want you to know that Charlie right now is in heaven,not because he was a great husband and father,not because he saved millions of kids out of darkness on college campuses,
55:26not because he changed minds and chased votes to save the country,not because he sacrificed himself for his savior.Charlie Kirk is in heaven because his savior sacrificed himself for Charlie Kirk.Okay, I'm holding back tears. Holding back tears right now because that moment was really amazing.And the whole memorial was really amazing. I will literally never forget. And I will hold on to thismoment for the rest of my life. I just remember the worship team like playing and they playedthis spontaneous worship set where no one was singing. And it was just and it was totally spontaneousin the moment. They didn't like they didn't mean for this to happen. But they were
56:17just playing music and I remember looking all around and everyone was raising their Charlie Kirksigns completely un-orchestrated. Here I am, send me, which is a passage out of Isaiah and onethat Charlie talked about a lot. And it was so incredibly spirit-filled and powerful. And I remindmyself of all of that in the midst of the craziness. So God is up to something. We get to bepart of it. You get to be a part of it. If you want to know about Jesus and who he really is,not a hippie, not a cheerleader, not a mascot, also not a genie, but the God of the universewho died to save you, if you want to know what Christmas and Easter are really about,then now's the time. Go to church this Sunday. Go to a church that preaches the Bible
57:08completely unapologetically. Go to a church that's baptizing people. Go to a church that's alive because of the Holy Spirit because of the Word of God. Read your Bible, pray. Now is the time.We don't know what 2026 holds, but we know the God who holds it. And that is where our hope andsecurity come from. All right, we've got a few more things to talk about in just a second.Let me pause. Tell you about our next sponsor. That's crowd health. Now might be the time.It's a new year. Maybe you're thinking about new health plan, new health insurance.Might be time to opt out of health insurance altogether. It can be such a huge hassle.and it can feel you don't have health insurance even when you do.
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58:44join crowdhealth.com code alley. And then of course we would be remiss not to talk about some like bigmoments for the relatable crew for related girls and relata bros this year. I kind of forgot whatyou were called related bros. I'm so sorry about that for a second. And I really like this is aimportant update that I landed on related girls. I was like wait, why are we saying related gals?And then it was going to be related bells, which does make sense because it's relatable.related bells, but I don't know. I could just never get on board with it. I don't know.It's, I don't, I don't know. There's something about it that I just couldn't get on board with it.And they're like, why not relate a girl? And you can tell me what you think. You can vote below if
59:35you like Relate a girl and Relate a Bro. I just kind of think that sounds best, but it's kind ofbeen a big year for us. Share the arrows are, we'll put up some pictures of that. This is our secondannual Christian Women's Conference and you heard me talk about it a lot throughout the year.Oh, there's a picture.I didn't even know we had it.Yeah.We'll just stay.Can we just stay on the picture of the of everyone for just a second, the first picture that
01:00:02was up?Like that is just all Christ.That is all the grace of God right there.We did share the arrows last year.And that was our first ever Christian conference.We expected 1,500 women.4,000 Christian women show up from all across the country. It was amazing. It was at a church calledPrestonwood Baptist Church, very thankful to them for allowing us to be their first venue. That was
01:00:26so great. But then, you know, we were like, okay, let's shoot for 5,000. And I was embarrassed tosay that out loud for the second year because people know it's really hard to get people placesin person. There are people who have much bigger platforms than me, who, you know, they do their ownevents and like it's a really good event if you get 2,000 people there. And so, you know,and we're also not having men and women. We're only having women. And so I knew that it could be alittle tough. I didn't want to say 5,000, but then, you know, I didn't know how Charlie'sassassination would affect everything if people would be too scared to come. But the opposite happenedbecause everyone was like, oh, I want to be with like-minded people right now. We can keep playing,
01:01:12we can keep showing the pictures. I want to be.with like-minded people right now.And I want to be under sound teaching.And that's what we got.That's Elisa Childers.We had Ginger Duggervolo.Just incredible worship.The chief of Laderbrough really like heads that up.
01:01:30And he helps plan that.And that was just such an amazing, encouraging day.I had a stomach bug for two days the day before.That was spiritual warfare.But God, through the power of.His Holy Spirit and Zofran really helped me out there.Jessica Bates, our Share the Arrow's Award winner, she was amazing.If we have a clip of us all worshiping together, we'll play that.
01:02:35And then we had probably the biggest, craziest moment.And I attribute, you know, Charlie's wisdom to a lot of this.And that was Jubilee.And we'll put up the thumbnail of Jubilee.And Jubilee was one conservative Christian versus20 liberal Christians.And this clip, I had no idea that this clip would catch so much that people would be so interested in this clip.But here's the clip that went totally gangbusters viral on Instagram in particular.
01:03:08I hear on TikTok too, although your girl, grandma is not on TikTok.I'm on millennial TikTok, which is called Instagram.But here is our exchange.Jesus doesn't say that anger is the only thing that leads to murder. As we saw in the case of David,it was lust that led to the murder of Bethsheba's husband. So murder can still be murder,even if the intent does not start with anger. And that is what I believe we see with abortion.What about Matthew 2624 when Jesus says that it would be better if Judas had never been born?Why do Christian conservatives believe that each conception deserves to be birthed when Jesus says otherwise?
01:03:44Well, Jesus doesn't say that Judas should have been murdered or that he should have been aborted.it said that he should have never been born, which we can deduce probably means never beenconceived. And he is speaking figuratively there, that it would have been better for him to not beborn than endure the judgment that he's going to endure because of what he did. That is notcondoning, killing the innocent people that Jesus defends.You know, I was so thankful to be able to have that opportunity. I really encourage you,if you have not watched the entirety of that two-hour debate, then go do that. Go watch.that two-hour debate, me, 20 liberals, four claims. It was really fun. The Holy Spirit really did
01:04:25meet me there. So thankful. And that was the last, like, long exchange that I had with Charlie.It was about Jubilee in August. I had been on his show that day. We were talking about toxic empathy.Actually, you know, we were talking about Taylor Swift and his viral comments that she needed to submit toher husband. And he was getting so much flack for that. So he had me on to talk about it.to talk about how that's true and to talk about toxic empathy and things like that.And then I texted him and Andrew Colvette later and I said, I'm going to be on Jubilee.And he was so excited for me.And I've shown some of those really encouraging texts that he sent, but probably 20 texts in a row from Charlie about that just being like, this is what you have to do.
01:05:07This is where you need to go.This is how you navigate this.Send me your four prompts.We can get a call together to like work through this stuff.He's like, I love this.He said, I'm praying for.this moment for you. Try not to get choked up again. But yeah, he was so generous with his time,with so many people, not, I mean, just like hundreds of us, honestly. I don't even know how he had the
01:05:31time. Hundreds of people. He just like would encourage in that way. And we never had that call.But I did carry that advice with me, definitely through Jubilee. And God has used that.Again, not me, but God has used that Jubilee debate and like the opportunity to share thegospel there in some really incredible ways that people have messaged me about and commented about.And again, God just uses us in whatever we do to bring himself glory.And I'm just so thankful for that.All right, those are some big moments.And who knows?
01:06:10Again, what 2026 holds.We've got America Fest this weekend.and that will be very, very interesting in light of all of the recent events.But pray for that, pray for safety, pray for me to glorify God to bring the truth of the gospeland to glorify God as much as I can while I'm there.And just one more thing to say.I'll leave you with our last sponsor for the day.And that is Patriot Mobile.
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01:07:00They support all the same values and causes that we do.So vote with your dollar.Switch to them Patriotmobile.com slash Alley code Alley.Okay.last thing I just want to say is keep slugging. If you know, you know, keep slugging. And things might seemhard or they might seem slow or maybe they seem too fast-paced. But don't grow weary and doing goodand stay on track and stay in the lane and the calling to which God has called you. And he willbring your path to completion. And also, if you have any feedback for us, if you have any guest
01:07:48ideas, if you have topic ideas, if you have things that you want us to cover, Theologically,newswise, topics, people that you want me to talk to, feel free to leave a comment, send a message.We try to take that into consideration. However, I would encourage you, if you're like,I wonder if she's ever talked about this or talked to this person, then just type it into YouTube orwherever you listen or watch and just say, you know, Allie Stucky, John McArthur, whatever,and then those episodes will come up. So it is likely that I've already talked to the personthat you think I should talk to. But tell me who you think I should have on, why you think so,and any other feedback that you have for our team. I just want to say I'm so thankful for you.
01:08:32This would not be here without you. I love you guys. You share the arrows with me. You pray for me.and I have the best audience in the world.We punch so far above our weight in every way and showing up at conferences andlike being engaged and supporting our sponsors and sending encouragement to people who needencouragement and prayer.Like we are a not a small audience, but we are even more engaged than we are like high inquantity.Like we are, this is just the most high quality smartest, best.
01:09:08and kindest audience out there. And, you know, I'm just, it's, it's just really special. It's justspecial because there's a lot of people that have a lot of people that follow them. But I think thatI have the best people in the world in this audience. And what an incredible blessing and privilegeit is for me. And I just pray that I steward that faithfully and well. So thank you for helpingme do that. And Merry Christmas. Make sure that you tune in on Friday to John Cooper. The episodewith it is so, so good, y'all. It is so good. You are going.going to love it. And we don't have episodes until the new year, until the week of the fifth,until the week of January 5th. We might have one bonus episode come out because we do have an
01:09:50extra one that we filmed. That's really good that I want y'all to listen to before or afterChristmas. But regularly scheduled episodes, Monday, Wednesday, Friday will be back the weekof January 5th. So I'll see you guys then.
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