Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1280 | The 'Matthew 18' Myth & 'Relatable' Wrapped

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Starting point is 00:00:46 That's fellowship homelones.com slash alley, term supply, see site for details, fellowship home loans, mortgage lending by the book, nationwide mortgage bankers, DBA Fellowship Home Loans, equal housing lender, NMLS, number 819382. What does Matthew 18 really say about biblical reconciliation and public rebuke? Is that passage being misused? We will take a look at it today. We will also be looking at a recap, the highlights of everything that has happened in 2025. It has been a huge year, and we will talk specifically about what God is up to, what we as Christians need to be looking for.

Starting point is 00:01:25 You're going to enjoy this episode brought to you by Friends of Good Ranchers. Go to Go to Go to Go to Ranchers.com. Use code alley at checkout. That's good ranchers.com code alley. Hey guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far. Well, it is almost Christmas. And you know what I forgot to tell you at the beginning of the episode on Monday? Because I had my dad there as a co-host, so it kind of threw me off. The God's eternal plan of redemption is going off without a hitch. Breaking news, news flash, stop the presses. That truth is the truest truth that's out there. And it is the truth that does not make

Starting point is 00:02:08 headlines, but it is the truth that is reverberating underneath the other truth. And underneath the lies and underneath the chaos and underneath the noise, that is what is always truly going on. So if you're searching for something beyond what the media tells you, if you are exhausted by what goes viral on social media and trying to keep up with everything that's going on, if you are always looking for the real truth underneath what is being told to you, that is it. Open up your Bible and you will see it. That underneath everything that the world is telling you important, that that is the most important. That God's eternal plan of redemption is humming along perfectly in rhythm, keeping perfect time with exactly what his will is at every

Starting point is 00:03:03 given moment. That nothing is ever throwing him off. Nothing is. Nothing. has ever taken him aback. Nothing has ever surprised God. Nothing has ever made him think, how am I going to figure this out, or fix this, or clean up this mess. 2025 brought a lot of surprises. I would not want to repeat it. There were some really high points. We'll get into that today and some really low points, really, really low points for all of our lives for our country. I cannot predict what 2026 will bring. We talked about future election cycles on Monday and how we should think about all of that. Obviously, that is very important to start thinking about planning for the future. But the truth is, we don't know what the next second holds.

Starting point is 00:03:55 We certainly don't know what the next year holds. But what we can hold fast to, what we can ground our feet in is that Jesus Christ wins, that he is king, that he rules over all of it, that every single day of our lives were planned for us before any of them came to be. That's what Psalm 139 tells us. God's eternal plan of redemption is always going off without a hitch. And I'm thankful for that. Nothing happens accidentally or arbitrarily. you are placed right now on this tiny speck of eternity on this small plot of the universe by a God

Starting point is 00:04:35 who does nothing accidentally, nothing flippantly. And Christmas is like really the embodiment of that. The word made flesh who dwelt among us, Emmanuel, God with us, who shows that God's eternal plan of redemption, yes, it is always going off without a hitch, but it doesn't always always show up exactly how we think it's going to. Certainly when the Jewish people were looking for Messiah, they were expecting a soldier, a warrior, a king, someone who looked strong like royalty, but isn't that just like God? To defy the odds, actually not only that, but to stack the odds against himself just so he can tear them down, to turn on its head the wisdom of the wise, and to flip the worldly economy and the worldly thinking about what's important and what's powerful

Starting point is 00:05:31 and what salvation should look like on its head just so he can show us over and over again, it's me. It's my strength. It's my glory. It's my salvation. It's not you. Like everything about Christianity is so distinct and so different and so backwards from how the world defines strength. how the world defines fulfillment and satisfaction and success and how to be saved and how to be like God,

Starting point is 00:06:04 every other religion, and the world itself, atheism will give you a structure for how to be a good person and how to earn it and how to make sure that you've made yourself good enough for the higher power, whatever it may be, so that they'll accept you, so that they'll like you, so that you can get up to the level that you want to get to, whether it's ascending to some different, you know, internal plain via transcendental meditation or whether it's a list of rules that you have to follow. Christianity is distinct. Not only in that, the gospel says that you can't save yourself, that you're actually dead in your sin. That's what Ephesians 2 says. A dead person can't save themselves, they can't fix themselves up, they can't clean themselves of the stench of the decay of

Starting point is 00:06:52 their flesh. And we had to be made alive by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. We had to be given a free gift of salvation that we could not earn so we can't boast in it. That's all Ephesians 2, 1 through 10. Not only is Christianity and distinct in that it says you are completely helpless to save yourself or even helped yourself. So God had to come down and save you. But he didn't come down and save you like a warrior or like a prince or a king or anything that we might have expected. No, you are so helpless that God came down to save you in the form of first an embryo, then an unborn child, and then a baby, and not a baby in a castle, not a baby born to what we think of as a royal family,

Starting point is 00:07:37 but a baby born in a stable among manure and hay to lowly Jewish parents. How incredible is God? and through that gift of Jesus Christ in an unexpected place, in an unexpected way, we get the free gift of salvation. Like the simpleness, the simplicity, and the meagerness, if you will, of Jesus's birth. Like we look at that and that is a symbol of our salvation or the Godman who came to save us, that should show us how much even more helpless we are spiritually. How incredible it is. How much do we learn about God that God is so powerful that he doesn't need to save us

Starting point is 00:08:30 in the way the world describes salvation or strength or power or bravery. Now one day Jesus is coming back in a very different way. His first advent, he came as a baby, which I think there's so much to learn from that about the heart of God, how he does things, but also just his care for children inside the womb that Jesus came as a newborn, was heralded by the unborn kicks of John the Baptist, against the protestations of his disciples, said, let the little children come to me for such as these belong the kingdom of heaven, against the backdrop of a society of a culture who denigrated children on the level of animals and barbarians sold them into sex.

Starting point is 00:09:14 trafficking, laid them on hills called exposure hills where they were left there to die by the elements or torn apart by wild animals. That was the backdrop against this Jesus, this God man, this king came as a baby. That's amazing. We see that and then we just also see who God is and what he cares about and how he does things. But then also we remember that he will come back as a king, as that that mighty warrior with a sword coming out of his mouth and a tattoo on his thigh and riding in on a horse like it's hard to imagine it's hard to picture but one day that internal desire that we have for all things to be made right for the bad guy to lose finally and for the little guy the weak and the actually truly oppressed to be lifted up for the person who takes advantage of

Starting point is 00:10:11 people, for those who do evil, who mock God, for them to be destroyed, like that real desire that we have will be satisfied. It will be satisfied. So often I think we look at the state of the world and we think, well, why isn't God doing something? But he promises to do something and he will do something ultimately about all the evil that goes on in the world and he will rule forever and ever. And we're reminded of that at Christmas, all of this that comes from the first Advent. We have a different, of course, celebration at Easter when he sacrificed himself on the cross on our behalf and then defeated death, rose again three days later. But this Christmas, and really every day and every holiday, we are reminded that God's victory is sure, even when things feel very chaotic. You guys know if you've been listening for any amount of time.

Starting point is 00:11:11 I love Psalm 37. I read it this morning because I needed to be reminded of it. I'll just be honest. Like this episode is just as much for me as it is for y'all. Me saying everything that I just said at the beginning of every Monday episode, almost every Monday episode. And certainly many episodes for a very long time. I've been doing this podcast since 2018.

Starting point is 00:11:36 Probably been saying that phrase. that we came up with, which is on a mug over there, but I don't have the mug right in front of me since, gosh, probably five years. It's just as much for me. Sorry, I have a cold right now, but because I just feel kind of like down and not anything personal, just the state of the world, you know, and sometimes it really doesn't get to me right now. It is state of American politics, culture, it just feels not great. It feels not great. It doesn't feel real. Yeah, it's tough. But I just remember Psalm 37, fret not yourself because of evil doers. Be not envious of wrongdoers. That right there is an entire word that we could just rest on. For they will soon fade like the grass and

Starting point is 00:12:27 wither like the green herb. So what are we to do? Trust in the Lord and do good, dwell in the land, to befriend faithfulness. Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart. Now if you're delighting yourself in the Lord, the desires of your heart will align with his desires and your desire will be his will. Your desire will be his glory and he is faithful to give you those things. Now, we used to do, we just haven't done it in a while because I feel like we kind of went through most, if not all of the most misused verses that used to be a series that we would do.

Starting point is 00:13:02 And one of the verses that we did is Psalm 374, delight yourself and Lord, he will give you the desires of your heart. I heard that a lot growing up that if you really want to be married and you really want to have kids, then God will do that for you. But that's not the correct interpretation of that verse, of course, because there's going to be a lot of disappointments in this life, a lot of things that we want that we don't get. That's life. We don't, we live in a post-fall world. We live, you know, east of Eden. And one day we will have all of the desires that we truly want in Christ because we will be with him forever and ever if we are indeed Christians. In heaven, when he comes back, whichever one comes first, goodwill win. It will triumph and there will be

Starting point is 00:13:55 no more sin or sadness or sickness or sorrow. And that is our hope. Not that God is always going to give us everything that we want. All right, I want to get into another passage that I think is very often misused. And this is Matthew 18. I've seen a lot. I see this a lot just in general, but especially over the past few days. Matthew 18 as a model for reconciliation between people, I think it is very often not even read at all. And we read things into that passage that it is not. So this is a passage about what believers should do when one has sinned against another. And so let's just read the passage and see what it actually says because people apply this to public rebuke in general or public debate or disagreement in general. And I think that's a misapplication.

Starting point is 00:14:46 And I think it's important to talk about that. So anyway, just wanted to start off the show with some encouragement. A Merry Christmas because that is what Christmas is all about. Preach that to yourself. Preach that to your kids. tell that to the people in your life because that is what matters and that is where our hope and our joy really comes from regardless of our circumstances. But before I get into the most misused passage of Matthew 18, I want to pause and tell you about our first sponsor for the day.

Starting point is 00:15:14 This is a new sponsor and I'm super excited about it. They just shipped me the product and so I'm going to taste it and use it and tell you what I think. This is called the Wholesome Company and they have a new product called Repreve. So this is a drink mix that is formulated to help you release stress. And actually Chief Relaterbrough was just drinking it himself. He said that he really likes it, that it tastes good. It is filled with research backed ingredients such as L-thianine, GABA, G-A-G-A-Tart cherry extract and magnesium. I'm familiar with all of those ingredients. And so I know for sure that they can help you relax and help your body and mind find relief if you feel especially uptight and anxious, especially around Christmas time,

Starting point is 00:16:00 the new year. Maybe you're like me and you see the new year as a time to refresh and restart and you find yourself wanting to clean all of your rooms and clean out your closet and clean out the pantry and refrigerator. And that could stress you out. They're all good things. That could stress you out. You want to be calm. And this can just help you by giving you the nutrients that your body uses and your body needs to just relax. So try. it out. It's wholesome is better.com. Holesome is better.com. Use code alley for 20% off your order. Get out of fight or flight mode. Just be able to focus on what you need to focus on in a peaceful way. Holesome is better.com code alley. Okay, let's talk about Matthew 18 because I see a lot that you shouldn't, you know, someone shouldn't say this about someone or someone shouldn't have any kind of public disagreement because of Matthew 18. And I just want to say according to the Bible, not according to Allie's opinion, what Matthew 18 actually says because this is a guide from our Lord Jesus, not from Allie's way of doing things.

Starting point is 00:17:11 And so let's take a look at what it is. This is so often used as kind of a way to say that all conflict between anyone should be handled in private. And I do believe that there is prudence in handling some matters in private. But this particular passage, there could be various reasons for handling something in private. I think that's totally fine. But this particular passage does not mean that all correction or all rebuttal or all debate or all rebuke must be done in private. So this is a passage, Matthew 18, 15 through 20, and Jesus is telling people how to live. If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.

Starting point is 00:17:55 If he listens to you, you have gained a brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile or or a tax collector, so an outsider, and then we could keep going. But that's really the passage. So it's really not through 20. It's really through 17. That's the passage that is most relevant that I want to focus on today. So I just want to make some observations. And this is how I really like to read the Bible. This is how I started out reading the Bible for my own on my own when I was in high

Starting point is 00:18:37 school. People ask me a lot. How should I read the Bible? How should I start? I love answering that question. I say get an ESV study Bible. That's my favorite form of Bible. You don't have to get an ESV study Bible. There are some other translations that are good. If you're unfamiliar with translations, so ESV, English standard version, there's NASB, there's NIV, there's KJV, and some are better than others depending upon how exact the translation is. So the reason I like ESV, because it is a word for word translation from the original Greek in Hebrew. And so it is just more exact. NIV is a thought for thought translation from the original Greek in Hebrew, which means it's less exact, but it's easier to read. I think that different versions can be okay for different people in different stages of life.

Starting point is 00:19:31 I think NIV is great for a lot of people, including great for kids. I'm not saying that it's only good for kids. But for me, it's a little less exact and all the study Bibles are a little different. The commentary in any study Bible is not inerrant. It's not infallible. They are the thoughts of people, but they are doing the very best they can with biblical scholarship and history and cultural context to bring meaning to the text. So you can understand why is Jesus saying this? What is going on here? To whom is he speaking? Things like that. So that's just a little aside. If you're new to the Bible, encourage you to get an ESV study Bible. You can get it on Amazon. I've been able to to partner with multiple ministries this year. And because of their generosity, we have given away,

Starting point is 00:20:18 I think, close to 5,000 Bibles just this fall. And just the eagerness with which this audience, a lot of you, new audience members, have snatched up those free Bibles because I really tried to encourage only people who can't afford a Bible or who don't have a Bible to get them has just been incredible and that alone has been extremely encouraging to me. Start in the book of John. That's where I say to start. You don't have to understand everything, but just read it and read a little bit every day. If you really want to slow down and try to understand it, this is what I do. I will start with a verse and then I will just do some observations of the words used, for example, and say, okay, what does this mean? Can I put this in synonymous terms? Can I say this in a

Starting point is 00:21:05 different way that helps me better understand. Can I think of an analogy that helps me understand what this is? Again, that's not an infallible interpretation of the Bible. That's just helping my particular brain understand. So that's kind of what I'm going to do here. It's just do some basic observation of what this passage actually does say versus what it doesn't say. Okay, so number one observation that I see in here between two or more fellow believers. So quote, your brother, if your brother sins against you, Jesus said. So this is between believers. This is not between any person.

Starting point is 00:21:41 It's not about any two people or any three people. When a non-Christian has sinned against you, private confrontation may still be the best way to go, but that is not what this passage is talking about. This passage is talking about believers within the church. Okay, so that's first observation. Number two, second observation is this is about interpersonal sin. I get this from the quote against you. So if your brother sins against you. So this is not about

Starting point is 00:22:10 someone just hurting your feelings, but an actual sin. And we define sin as missing the mark that God has put in front of us in his word. So the standards that he has set for right and wrong in his word. And this is not about sin in general. This is not about someone sinning and you having the biblical obligation then to go to them privately. Again, that may be prudent, but that is not what this passage is about. This is sin against you specifically. This is not about someone preaching false doctrine. This is about a fellow believer sinning against you. They slided you. They treated you unfairly. They were unkind to you according to the Bible standards of good conduct. That is what this says, and in that case, you go to this person directly. Third observation that I see,

Starting point is 00:23:03 it should be private at first. So just between you by yourselves, no witnesses should be present. So preserving the reputations and privacy. This can curtail any gossip or slander or innuendo or exaggeration. You're not bringing anyone else into it. You go to them in private first. This is all such a good reminder for all of us. I think all of us at some point have like wiggled on these on these steps that Jesus is saying to take. Fourth observation, after that, if that doesn't work, if you go to this person privately without talking to anyone else or bringing anyone else along, number four,

Starting point is 00:23:39 you take two to three witnesses. Two to three, this is specific. It harkens back to the Old Testament when in the court of law. This is not talking about a court of law. But in the court of law, it was required to have two or three eyewitnesses to convict. That is where we get so much inspiration of our due process here in the United States.

Starting point is 00:23:57 today that the accused also has rights, not just the accuser. So in this case, in this interpersonal dispute between believers, you take two to three witnesses. That also having two to three witnesses, it helps with fairness and orderliness. One person could just be convinced by the aggrieved party and be biased, but more than two or three people, like four or five people that can just be chaotic in a mess. Okay. Number five, fifth observation, you have to bring evidence. So there must be proof of this charge that you have against this person that they send. It indicates that we're not talking about just hurt feelings, but a sin that can be objectively proven. Number six, six observation. If that doesn't work, you take it to the church.

Starting point is 00:24:44 You bring more believers into the conflict to use their reasonableness and authority to try to persuade that person into repentance. That's what the hope is. The hope is repentance. The hope isn't just let bygones be bygones. The hope is repentance and the hope is restoration. That is where true peace comes from. True peace, we see in this passage, doesn't come through compromise. It does not come through pretending that sin is not sin or a lie is not a lie. But a dispute between two believers can only be resolved when the sinner in that party repents of their sin and submits to the reasonableness of fellow believers. And then the seventh observation, the last observation I see in this passage is that if this person refuses all of these things, private

Starting point is 00:25:31 confrontation, confrontation with witnesses, confrontation with the church, then you have to cast that person out. This is church discipline. So that person can no longer be, at least for the time being, a part of that local body of Christ, that church. And so the argument actually could be made that this passage is not even just talking about two believers in general, but two members of the same church. body since this process would be hard to do and enforce between two people from two

Starting point is 00:26:00 different churches. And so that is what this is about. It's not about just any two people disagreeing about something. Or it is not prohibiting public rebuke or publicly correcting a lie or a public confrontation because sometimes those things are necessary. Sometimes those things are necessary among Christians actually. And they are very, often necessary outside of the church. So first, we can look at Galatians 2 as evidence for this. Galatians 2 11 through 14. So this is Paul publicly opposing Peter. But when Seifis, that's Peter, came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles. But when they came,

Starting point is 00:26:54 he drew back and separated himself during the circumcision party. He goes on and talks about his fear and hypocrisy. So not only did he confront him to his face and maybe other people were around there, but also like he is talking about that now. He is using that public rebuke as a lesson for these believers, be like, hey, don't be like Peter in this regard. And I think that Paul loved Peter as a brother in Christ, but public rebuke can actually be instructive for everyone else. Because in this case, it wasn't Peter sinning against Paul interpersonally. It was a sin in general that had to be called out for the building up of the body of Christ. And of course, had to be done in love because Christians are always called to do things in love.

Starting point is 00:27:34 But love doesn't always mean silence and complacence and fear and just trying to appease that person and be nice to that person. So there's a distinction there. And then we've got 1st Corinthians 511. But now I am writing to you not to associate. okay so we're not supposed to associate and like have this private confrontation with these kind of people but now i'm writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother okay so someone who calls themselves a christian if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed is an idolater or reviler so saying malicious and very often untrue things about someone a drunkard or a swindler

Starting point is 00:28:13 not even to eat with such a one so we're not talking about nonbelievers like this but people who call themselves Christians who commit idolatry, reviling, or drunkards, swindlers, you're not supposed to associate with those people. Okay. Second Timothy 3-1 through 7, but understand this, that in the last days, there will come times of difficulty for people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God. having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power.

Starting point is 00:28:52 Avoid such people. So some people we are just supposed to avoid. For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning, and never able to arrive at a knowledge of truth. And then we have Ephesians 5, 6 through 8. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things, the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedient,

Starting point is 00:29:18 therefore do not become partners with them for at one time you are darkness but now you are light in the lord walk as children of light for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true and try to discern what is pleasing to the lord so we are not always obligated to associate with people and we are not bound by the same instruction in matthew 18 with unbelievers or with people who are just generally committing sins as we are to a fellow believer within the body of Christ who has sinned against us. And so that is why I think that, you know, when I see people correcting false teaching or saying this person said this and that was wrong, I don't think it's wrong. As long as you never go into insults and you're never

Starting point is 00:30:05 reviling them. You're not lying about them, but you're focusing on the substance of what they're saying or maybe you disagree with their methods. Like I think that is good and totally fine. I don't think that we are obligated to necessarily go to that person first. Again, you might want to. That might be like a good route to take, but that's not what Matthew 18 means. So anyway, I just thought that that was an important thing for me to remember and for us all to remember. I think sometimes that is like used as a tool to silence people talking about things that are wrong. Is Matthew 18, Matthew 18, but that's not exactly what Jesus meant by that. All right. Let's shift gears just a little bit. Let me tell you about our next sponsor first.

Starting point is 00:30:43 and that is good ranchers. So thankful for good ranchers. You guys know we've been relying on them for all American meat and the Stucky home for about five years now. We always have a freezer full of better than organic chicken, craft beef, all different cuts of steak. I mean, I think that we're probably making like a sheet of chicken breast every day because it's such a good source of protein. You can put it in anything. You can make anything out of it. Our kids will eat it. They love the seed oil free chicken nuggets too. And you, if you're a seafood person, if you like shrimp and scallops and salmon and cod and halibut. They've got all of that, all from American farms and ranches. That can be so hard to find when you go to the grocery store. You don't know where that meat is

Starting point is 00:31:22 from. Even if it says made in the U.S., it might just be packaged in the U.S., which is crazy. So give the gift of all-American meat either to yourself, your family, a family member. Subscribe to Good Ranchers. You'll get a free hat-on of meat for life. That's so amazing. That meat will show up Andriyes to your front door every month. Use my code Allie. You'll get an extra $40 off. Good Ranchers. com code alley okay i thought that we would go down a little trip um or take a little trip down memory lane and just kind of go through some of the top stories from 2025 because i mean the past few months have felt like a whole year have they not like i think about the tragic day on

Starting point is 00:32:09 september 10th and i will never forget that day we'll talk about it a little bit more in a second. And I think probably to all of us, it's those three months. I mean, they felt like, they felt like 10 years, honestly. And I imagine even more so, so much more so to the people in Charlie's life. But it's just been a lot. It has been so much over the past few months, not only that, but so many other things as well. But we forget that Donald Trump just became president this year. Like that is so hard to believe. It's so hard to believe. So let's go back to January for a second. Let's put up Donald J. Trump getting sworn in. So the whole family and I, we were in D.C. for the inauguration. We went to an inaugural ball, but we did not go to

Starting point is 00:32:58 the inauguration. We got to watch it. And it was an incredible time to be there. It was so, so cold. Like, it was so cold. I don't even know how you stand it. If you live in a cold. place like that. But it was very cool to be in D.C. And it was, do you remember, I don't know if we have this clip. I just thought of it, so I didn't even ask my team to get it. But do you remember Carrie Underwood singing? Was it great as thy faithfulness? I think it was Acapella. And because she was supposed to have a background track and it didn't play. Okay, we'll, we'll find it and we'll play it now. You know the words help me out here.

Starting point is 00:33:50 For purple mountain mat. All right. So that was beautiful. Our girl Carrie Underwood, just amazing. And you'll remember, okay, I also didn't tell my team I was going to do this. So I'm sorry about this. And this is going to make it a little confusing. But it just makes sense to do this.

Starting point is 00:34:33 So this was one of the biggest events of, I mean, maybe, no, not the biggest event of the year. I would say one of the biggest events of the year. I would say Charlie Kirk's assassination was the biggest event of the year. But obviously a very big event. I mean, we could have a whole time like going back and thinking about like Trump's victory and how unexpected that was. But this was also, we were tracking like what were our most popular episodes from this year? And that one totally unexpectedly where we talked about Trump not putting his hand on the Bible when he gave. the oath or when he was sworn in was our by far the most popular episode both on listening

Starting point is 00:35:15 and on YouTube here it is. I don't think that there's any significance there because again it's not necessarily a rule and the fact that they provided their own family Bible means that they did care about that, that it was important to them, even if it was just symbolic. I mean, they thought about that. They brought the Bible. if they didn't care at all, they wouldn't have provided a family Bible. So anyway, that was a fun episode to do because you could see in the background.

Starting point is 00:35:43 You can see the Washington monument behind me. And you'll remember that was a whole thing. That was a whole thing where he didn't put his hand on the Bible. Do I prefer politicians to put their hand on the Bible? Yes, of course. I prefer politicians to put their hand on the Bible. We could also do an entire recap of Trump's first year of presidency, the highs and lows. I think there have been highs and there have been lows. The thing that has

Starting point is 00:36:07 made headlines the most has surely been his immigration policies. And I am just, I'm staunch when it comes to immigration. And if you need to know how to think about immigration or if you want the conservative perspective and what I believe to be the biblical perspective on strong borders and even deportations and just the real risk that is involved with mass migration and illegal immigration, than read toxic empathy. My book, Toxic Empathy came out last year. And I really, I just do. I encourage you to get it.

Starting point is 00:36:40 I'm not even trying to sell the book. If I had more books to just send you, I would. But you should get the book. Get it for yourself. Get it for someone in your life. And even if you just read the immigration chapter, it would be absolutely worth your while. Because there's a lot of manipulation,

Starting point is 00:36:56 empathy extortion when it comes to the immigration issue. And Trump is right on immigration. And he should be even strong. on it. So that happened in, at the beginning of, at the beginning of the year. So and then the second thing that happened. And then we got the first American Pope. I mean, my timeline in my head is like completely off. That happened over, over the summer when Pope Francis's replacement became Pope Leo and we had a lot of people kind of freak out a little bit on us because we had Michael Knowles on the show and I didn't have a debate with Michael Knowles on the show and people were like,

Starting point is 00:37:45 wow, what does Allie even think about Catholicism anymore? Because I've just been so reticent about that. I've been so private. No one knows. Is she a Protestant? No, it's so hard to find out. Maybe you can go back and look at my episodes celebrating Martin Luther to find out. But yeah, that's caused some controversy because I have Catholics on and I'm not always there to debate Catholics. I have friends that are Catholic that I appreciate so much. And I've also done a lot of debates about Catholicism versus Protestantism. But the point in covering that is that it's a really important moment.

Starting point is 00:38:18 It's a really important historical moment, not just in the Catholic Church, but really in the West in general. and it does seem to me like unfortunately Pope Leo has some progressive views on some things that I would call unbiblical views on some things that I don't love that I don't appreciate. I mean, of course, Catholic versus Protestant, but I'm talking about things like immigration and Islam and things like that. And, you know, what else is new? Protesting the Pope. It's kind of what we do. It's in the name. but that was a very significant moment.

Starting point is 00:38:55 And then coming over to the Protestant side, we lost some of the most important figures in Protestantism. We lost John McArthur. John McArthur, one of my favorite Bible teachers. I don't know if we have the clip right now, but there's a clip that will play when we have it of Charlie and I talking on his show about, he asked me who the best Bible teacher is, And he was like, I think I know what you're going to say.

Starting point is 00:39:25 And then I said John McArthur, of course. And then we talked about why that is. But we put together this montage after Charlie died of the conversation that I had and then showing John McArthur and Charlie sharing the gospel here that is. Who is the greatest Bible teacher alive today? I was going to see John McArthur. Yes. He's the man. What made him so?

Starting point is 00:39:46 And it's important, right? Because we should articulate like, why is he a legend? Yeah. And how do we get more of this next generation of being that mold? Unafraid. That's the thing I think of. Unafraid. I don't know if you know this, but everyone dies.

Starting point is 00:40:00 It's important to remind yourself with that. That you face God, the judge, and he's in a list everything you did wrong in your life. For those of you that have not given your life to Christ, I could tell you it is the most freeing, liberating thing that a human being can possibly do. The most important thing that you can do. There's no middle ground. You either embrace Jesus as Savior or Lord. or you don't. One promises heaven, the other promises hell. No middle ground. So John McArthur,

Starting point is 00:40:29 an amazing expositor. He passed away in July at the age of 86. We had had him on the show a couple times. His books, the gospel according to Jesus, gospel according to Matthew, et cetera. So good. He was the pastor of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California since 1969. That is such a long faithful ministry, so incredible. And then we also lost our friend Vody Baccombe, whom we've had on the show several times. That was completely unexpected. It was known that John MacArthur, being 86, was going to die. Vody Baccombe while he had had some health and heart issues. That was unexpected because he was just 56. And he passed away just a couple of weeks after Charlie, September 25th, he leaves behind a wife, and I believe eight children, grandchildren as well. He had just

Starting point is 00:41:20 just moved over to the states from Africa. And I'll play you this clip about his death. You are going to hear a rumor one day that Vody Walken is no more. Don't you believe it? Don't you believe it? Don't you believe it? Because though I die, I will rise with Christ.

Starting point is 00:41:43 It will not be the end of me. Because Christ is raised. And I too will be. be raised with Christ. That is why he is called the firstborn from the dead. Folks, you don't talk about a firstborn unless there's others who are born after him. Don't you pity me. You pity the one who wants to hold on to Jesus without holding on to the resurrection. You pity the one who has absolutely no hope because they have no resurrected Christ. And then we also lost, we lost Phil Robertson, And Phil Robertson, so we're kind of going out of order here, but he died on Sunday, May 25th.

Starting point is 00:42:27 Love Phil Robertson. He was on the show several times. I was on their show several times. He's so funny. He was so funny. I was like very pregnant the first time I met him. And he did not say anything, which was like very strange most people, especially like older men comment when women are pregnant.

Starting point is 00:42:47 But he told me a story later saying that he made that mistake. one time where he went up to a family member and said, like, I didn't know you were expecting and she wasn't expecting. So he never made that mistake again, but he was so serious about the Bible, and I appreciated that so much. And here he is describing sharing the gospel with Trump, saw 11. I said, there's a cross after that, Trump. I said, there's a cross. Jesus died on the cross. I said, for the sins of the world, I said, you do have sins, don't you? What did he say? And he said, a lot of them.

Starting point is 00:43:22 I said, me too. So I told him, I said, I have a lot too. I said, they put him in a tomb. I said, Trump, whatever happens, I said, we're the same age. We're identical age. I said, we don't have that long. We're in our 70s. I said, Trump, we're going to die.

Starting point is 00:43:40 And you're going to go six feet under and so am I. Right? He said, no doubt about it. I said, he was. was resurrected from the dead. I said, you can live beyond the grave. I said, it's the greatest thing that ever happened for the human race. He was so great. James Dobson also passed away. He passed away August 21st, 2025 at the age of 89. And I mean, this is like just a generation of faithful evangelical

Starting point is 00:44:16 Protestant pastors and leaders that we lost and their legacy lives on and God ordained all of their days knew exactly when they were going to pass but it's still sad for all of us but especially their families and it's okay for us to be sad even though they've moved on to a much better place

Starting point is 00:44:35 and they're in heaven with their Savior it's okay for us to be sad even Jesus wept when Lazarus died and not only did Jesus know he was moving on to a better place but Jesus knew he was about to raise him from the dead moments later. And he still wept with compassion and sadness and probably just the reality of the sadness of the existence of death because of sin. So lost so many people. And then of course we lost our friend Charlie Kirk.

Starting point is 00:44:59 And we'll get into that in just a second. But let me pause and tell you about our next sponsor. It's Shopify. Thankful for Shopify. They make selling your items really easy. And if you are a business owner and you're selling your art. or you're selling merchandise or you're selling any products. You want that part to be really easy.

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Starting point is 00:46:09 Okay. I'm going to try not to like get down into the nitty gritty about this, about Charlie Kirk passing because I've talked so much about it so many times. But I mean, like I said earlier, I will just never forget that day. And if you want to go back and watch my tribute to Charlie or watch some of the episodes that we did about revival or his memorial, that I really encourage you to. I just think that there's a lot of encouragement in those first episodes and in those first moments when it was so dark and so sad and so scary and so bleak. But at the same time, like we all felt

Starting point is 00:46:56 this rumbling of hope and of revival. And I still feel that. And I still know that it's happening. Not only, yes, God's eternal plan of redemption. But you know, God has been really kind to show me twice in the past few days that he is up to something. He's always up to something, but this turning to him, this renewed interest in him that we all saw at Charlie's Memorial that we all saw on college campuses, like it's still, it is happening. It seems like the love of many has grown cold really fast. Like we so quickly went from this unified moment at the memorial to conspiracies, to accusations, to slander, to gossip, to division, to, I think, unjustified suspension and anger and bitterness, in rivalry and deceit and so much. And it just felt like,

Starting point is 00:47:58 hang on, like, what is the future going to hold? And I don't know. Like, I can't, I can't tell you. I'm not like a, I don't know what the political future is going to hold. I don't know the future of the right. I don't know the future of activist organizations. I don't know the future of other like influencers and their campaigns. I don't know what that future holds. But as I was very demoralized and discouraged over the past few days, God gave me two conversations.

Starting point is 00:48:25 Like he just orchestrated these incredible conversations that encouraged me. And the first one, I talked to someone who used to work on this show. and when he worked on this show a few years ago, he was an atheist and he didn't believe in God and we just, I won't get into the details of the conversation, but he recently shared that he's been reading his Bible and going to church and that his faith has just been restored to him in Christ. And I just thought about like how God works and how God uses each of us

Starting point is 00:48:58 in small ways to accomplish his purpose, to seek and save the loss. He's going to stop at nothing to go seek that lost sheep. And he's going to use so many in his flock to do that. And you're going to be so encouraged by Friday's episode with John Cooper of Skillet and his testimony of how God used his life in that way and how God used his ministry in that way, that when it seems like God is up to one thing, he's doing 10 million things. And like when we get to the other side of eternity, we are going to see this incredible, complex interwoven tapestry of all of these little unseen and unsung moments in the lives of believers

Starting point is 00:49:36 that culminated in someone's salvation and angels rejoicing because of that. And I saw that happening so much in the wake of Charlie's death. And then it just seemed like everything got dark and confusing. But then the light peeks through in these conversations when I talk to someone and I'm like, God got you. And he used all of these things, things that I didn't see, things that I didn't know, but maybe God allowed me to play a small part in that to bring you to himself. Praise God. Praise God. And then I had another conversation this morning with someone whose family member had

Starting point is 00:50:12 walked away from the church, was completely callous towards Christianity, was not interested in it at all. And then over the past few months, I don't know if it's directly because of what happened to Charlie or what he's seen on social media. But almost randomly, it seems, has done a total about face. Once to read the Bible, has bought all of these apologies. genetics books, went to a solid church in the area over the weekend. And the person who I was talking to, this family member was like, I am shocked. I would have never thought this was going to happen.

Starting point is 00:50:44 And it just was a sweet reminder that God is doing what he's always done. He is bringing beauty out of ashes. Like he is a God of redemption. And what Satan means for evil, God means for good. And I don't just mean Charlie's assassination, but some of the ugliness that has happened after, God is even working through and despite all of that to bring glory to himself because that's what he does. He will stop at nothing to bring glory to himself. So I want to recalibrate and refocus my eyes on, okay, I want to be a part of that story, the stories underneath the story, the stories of people turning back to faith. So whatever I can do to point people towards scripture, to give you a Bible, to point people towards a solid church, to point you towards a solid pastor in your area,

Starting point is 00:51:30 to encourage you to pray and to plug into a body of believers that will hold you accountable, to get to know the living God who made you and loves you. Whatever small part I can play and making heaven crowded, as Charlie used to say, like, I want to do that. And I've gotten this question so many times, and I always rebuff this question because I don't like this question. I understand why it's being asked, but I don't like it by journalists. they'll say, do you see yourself as like stepping into a place like Charlie did? And I'm not the only person that's been asked. A ton of people in the conservative move that have been asked that.

Starting point is 00:52:04 And I'm like, I have such a small piece of this pie over here that focuses on Christianity, that focuses on Christian women. And yes, politics is a part of that. Politics matter because policy matters, because people matter. But I'm focusing on that. Like I want to give those women by the grace of God as courage, as much clarity as I possibly can. Like the activism, the coalition building, the like campus touring, all of that is so important. And that is for someone out there that God has ordained for that. And truly, Charlie was an anomaly. He did the role of like 40 different people. And it'll probably take like 40 of us to even try to make up for some of the things that he was doing. But I like, I don't know what the future is there. I have to bring my eyes down to the micro.

Starting point is 00:52:54 What's going on with the people in my life? Like what's going on with the people right in front of me? And that's what I want to encourage you to. I'm not going to say, you've got to get off social media. Don't listen to a podcast. Don't watch the news. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying sometimes we have to recalibrate and refocus and put our eyes right here.

Starting point is 00:53:14 Who is in front of you that needs the gospel? What story is God writing in your kids' lives? At home, in your neighborhood, in your marriage. don't neglect those things for the things that are going on out in the world. Those things are important, but they're not more important than what's going on in your home and your life and your friends and your church. In fact, I think sometimes the big things can be a distraction from the little things because the little things is where a lot of our like our repentance needs to happen and healing

Starting point is 00:53:44 needs to happen and sanctification needs to happen. And those things are hard and they hurt. And so I just want us to be careful. I just want us to maybe just refocus a little bit going into the new year. And honestly, a lot of what I've seen about like Charlie's new book and Sabbath has really convicted me about that. And the need to weekly and consistently have the self-control. Self-control is a very important trait to me.

Starting point is 00:54:10 Like it's important to God, but it's just like one that I really always like aspire to have. And I have not had a self-control to have a weekly 24-hour Sabbath. And that is something I say to my shame. And it's probably the cause of sometimes me realizing, oh, wait, all of this stuff is happening. But this person right here needs to hear the gospel. And so I was just thinking about that. And I want to make sure that we focus on that. And I think that is a way of carrying on his legacy. God is sometimes calling us to big public things to have a platform and a microphone. I think that's really important that we steward that well if we're called to that. he might also be calling us to big things that are unseen and unsung.

Starting point is 00:54:56 Charlie's Memorial really was a special moment. And I just want to highlight one one moment that I thought was really, really good there. I loved Marco Rubio's speech. I love J.D. Vance's speech. But this was probably my favorite, Sot 15. Now, I want you to know that Charlie right now is in heaven, not because he was a great husband and father, not because he saved millions of kids out of darkness on college campuses,

Starting point is 00:55:26 not because he changed minds and chased votes to save the country, not because he sacrificed himself for his savior. Charlie Kirk is in heaven because his savior sacrificed himself for Charlie Kirk. Okay, I'm holding back tears. Holding back tears right now because that moment was really amazing. And the whole memorial was really amazing. I will literally never forget. And I will hold on to this moment for the rest of my life. I just remember the worship team like playing and they played this spontaneous worship set where no one was singing. And it was just and it was totally spontaneous in the moment. They didn't like they didn't mean for this to happen. But they were

Starting point is 00:56:17 just playing music and I remember looking all around and everyone was raising their Charlie Kirk signs completely un-orchestrated. Here I am, send me, which is a passage out of Isaiah and one that Charlie talked about a lot. And it was so incredibly spirit-filled and powerful. And I remind myself of all of that in the midst of the craziness. So God is up to something. We get to be part of it. You get to be a part of it. If you want to know about Jesus and who he really is, not a hippie, not a cheerleader, not a mascot, also not a genie, but the God of the universe who died to save you, if you want to know what Christmas and Easter are really about, then now's the time. Go to church this Sunday. Go to a church that preaches the Bible

Starting point is 00:57:08 completely unapologetically. Go to a church that's baptizing people. Go to a church that's a live because of the Holy Spirit because of the Word of God. Read your Bible, pray. Now is the time. We don't know what 2026 holds, but we know the God who holds it. And that is where our hope and security come from. All right, we've got a few more things to talk about in just a second. Let me pause. Tell you about our next sponsor. That's crowd health. Now might be the time. It's a new year. Maybe you're thinking about new health plan, new health insurance. Might be time to opt out of health insurance altogether. It can be such a huge hassle. and it can feel you don't have health insurance even when you do.

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Starting point is 00:58:44 join crowdhealth.com code alley. And then of course we would be remiss not to talk about some like big moments for the relatable crew for related girls and relata bros this year. I kind of forgot what you were called related bros. I'm so sorry about that for a second. And I really like this is a important update that I landed on related girls. I was like wait, why are we saying related gals? And then it was going to be related bells, which does make sense because it's relatable. related bells, but I don't know. I could just never get on board with it. I don't know. It's, I don't, I don't know. There's something about it that I just couldn't get on board with it. And they're like, why not relate a girl? And you can tell me what you think. You can vote below if

Starting point is 00:59:35 you like Relate a girl and Relate a Bro. I just kind of think that sounds best, but it's kind of been a big year for us. Share the arrows are, we'll put up some pictures of that. This is our second annual Christian Women's Conference and you heard me talk about it a lot throughout the year. Oh, there's a picture. I didn't even know we had it. Yeah. We'll just stay. Can we just stay on the picture of the of everyone for just a second, the first picture that

Starting point is 01:00:02 was up? Like that is just all Christ. That is all the grace of God right there. We did share the arrows last year. And that was our first ever Christian conference. We expected 1,500 women. 4,000 Christian women show up from all across the country. It was amazing. It was at a church called Prestonwood Baptist Church, very thankful to them for allowing us to be their first venue. That was

Starting point is 01:00:26 so great. But then, you know, we were like, okay, let's shoot for 5,000. And I was embarrassed to say that out loud for the second year because people know it's really hard to get people places in person. There are people who have much bigger platforms than me, who, you know, they do their own events and like it's a really good event if you get 2,000 people there. And so, you know, and we're also not having men and women. We're only having women. And so I knew that it could be a little tough. I didn't want to say 5,000, but then, you know, I didn't know how Charlie's assassination would affect everything if people would be too scared to come. But the opposite happened because everyone was like, oh, I want to be with like-minded people right now. We can keep playing,

Starting point is 01:01:12 we can keep showing the pictures. I want to be. with like-minded people right now. And I want to be under sound teaching. And that's what we got. That's Elisa Childers. We had Ginger Duggervolo. Just incredible worship. The chief of Laderbrough really like heads that up.

Starting point is 01:01:30 And he helps plan that. And that was just such an amazing, encouraging day. I had a stomach bug for two days the day before. That was spiritual warfare. But God, through the power of. His Holy Spirit and Zofran really helped me out there. Jessica Bates, our Share the Arrow's Award winner, she was amazing. If we have a clip of us all worshiping together, we'll play that.

Starting point is 01:02:35 And then we had probably the biggest, craziest moment. And I attribute, you know, Charlie's wisdom to a lot of this. And that was Jubilee. And we'll put up the thumbnail of Jubilee. And Jubilee was one conservative Christian versus 20 liberal Christians. And this clip, I had no idea that this clip would catch so much that people would be so interested in this clip. But here's the clip that went totally gangbusters viral on Instagram in particular.

Starting point is 01:03:08 I hear on TikTok too, although your girl, grandma is not on TikTok. I'm on millennial TikTok, which is called Instagram. But here is our exchange. Jesus doesn't say that anger is the only thing that leads to murder. As we saw in the case of David, it was lust that led to the murder of Bethsheba's husband. So murder can still be murder, even if the intent does not start with anger. And that is what I believe we see with abortion. What about Matthew 2624 when Jesus says that it would be better if Judas had never been born? Why do Christian conservatives believe that each conception deserves to be birthed when Jesus says otherwise?

Starting point is 01:03:44 Well, Jesus doesn't say that Judas should have been murdered or that he should have been aborted. it said that he should have never been born, which we can deduce probably means never been conceived. And he is speaking figuratively there, that it would have been better for him to not be born than endure the judgment that he's going to endure because of what he did. That is not condoning, killing the innocent people that Jesus defends. You know, I was so thankful to be able to have that opportunity. I really encourage you, if you have not watched the entirety of that two-hour debate, then go do that. Go watch. that two-hour debate, me, 20 liberals, four claims. It was really fun. The Holy Spirit really did

Starting point is 01:04:25 meet me there. So thankful. And that was the last, like, long exchange that I had with Charlie. It was about Jubilee in August. I had been on his show that day. We were talking about toxic empathy. Actually, you know, we were talking about Taylor Swift and his viral comments that she needed to submit to her husband. And he was getting so much flack for that. So he had me on to talk about it. to talk about how that's true and to talk about toxic empathy and things like that. And then I texted him and Andrew Colvette later and I said, I'm going to be on Jubilee. And he was so excited for me. And I've shown some of those really encouraging texts that he sent, but probably 20 texts in a row from Charlie about that just being like, this is what you have to do.

Starting point is 01:05:07 This is where you need to go. This is how you navigate this. Send me your four prompts. We can get a call together to like work through this stuff. He's like, I love this. He said, I'm praying for. this moment for you. Try not to get choked up again. But yeah, he was so generous with his time, with so many people, not, I mean, just like hundreds of us, honestly. I don't even know how he had the

Starting point is 01:05:31 time. Hundreds of people. He just like would encourage in that way. And we never had that call. But I did carry that advice with me, definitely through Jubilee. And God has used that. Again, not me, but God has used that Jubilee debate and like the opportunity to share the gospel there in some really incredible ways that people have messaged me about and commented about. And again, God just uses us in whatever we do to bring himself glory. And I'm just so thankful for that. All right, those are some big moments. And who knows?

Starting point is 01:06:10 Again, what 2026 holds. We've got America Fest this weekend. and that will be very, very interesting in light of all of the recent events. But pray for that, pray for safety, pray for me to glorify God to bring the truth of the gospel and to glorify God as much as I can while I'm there. And just one more thing to say. I'll leave you with our last sponsor for the day. And that is Patriot Mobile.

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Starting point is 01:07:00 They support all the same values and causes that we do. So vote with your dollar. Switch to them Patriotmobile.com slash Alley code Alley. Okay. last thing I just want to say is keep slugging. If you know, you know, keep slugging. And things might seem hard or they might seem slow or maybe they seem too fast-paced. But don't grow weary and doing good and stay on track and stay in the lane and the calling to which God has called you. And he will bring your path to completion. And also, if you have any feedback for us, if you have any guest

Starting point is 01:07:48 ideas, if you have topic ideas, if you have things that you want us to cover, Theologically, newswise, topics, people that you want me to talk to, feel free to leave a comment, send a message. We try to take that into consideration. However, I would encourage you, if you're like, I wonder if she's ever talked about this or talked to this person, then just type it into YouTube or wherever you listen or watch and just say, you know, Allie Stucky, John McArthur, whatever, and then those episodes will come up. So it is likely that I've already talked to the person that you think I should talk to. But tell me who you think I should have on, why you think so, and any other feedback that you have for our team. I just want to say I'm so thankful for you.

Starting point is 01:08:32 This would not be here without you. I love you guys. You share the arrows with me. You pray for me. and I have the best audience in the world. We punch so far above our weight in every way and showing up at conferences and like being engaged and supporting our sponsors and sending encouragement to people who need encouragement and prayer. Like we are a not a small audience, but we are even more engaged than we are like high in quantity. Like we are, this is just the most high quality smartest, best.

Starting point is 01:09:08 and kindest audience out there. And, you know, I'm just, it's, it's just really special. It's just special because there's a lot of people that have a lot of people that follow them. But I think that I have the best people in the world in this audience. And what an incredible blessing and privilege it is for me. And I just pray that I steward that faithfully and well. So thank you for helping me do that. And Merry Christmas. Make sure that you tune in on Friday to John Cooper. The episode with it is so, so good, y'all. It is so good. You are going. going to love it. And we don't have episodes until the new year, until the week of the fifth, until the week of January 5th. We might have one bonus episode come out because we do have an

Starting point is 01:09:50 extra one that we filmed. That's really good that I want y'all to listen to before or after Christmas. But regularly scheduled episodes, Monday, Wednesday, Friday will be back the week of January 5th. So I'll see you guys then.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1280 | The 'Matthew 18' Myth & 'Relatable' Wrapped

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