Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1281 | Satanic or Sanctified? Skillet Gets Real About Christmas Controversy | John Cooper

Episode Date: December 19, 2025

Allie welcomes Skillet front man John Cooper for a heartfelt Christmas episode. They unpack the backlash to Skillet’s heavy metal “O Come, O Come Emmanuel” and dispel any misconceptions that it is demonic. John shares about his own faith journey from strict legalism to rock gospel and highlights the power of music in evangelism. Amid controversy, John shares how a TV commercial featuring a song by him led two adult industry workers to find Christ and how the death of Charlie Kirk influenced the recording session for Skillet's latest single. Tune in for raw faith, redemption stories, and why true worship defies genre lines. Check out Skillet's music video for "O Come, O Come Emmanuel" here: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiErbpZHfbk⁠ Buy Allie's book "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.toxicempathy.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ --- Timecodes: (00:00) Intro (03:20) New Christmas Song (11:30) Perception of Rock Music (17:20) Dangers of Deconstruction (26:40) Forming the Band Skillet (34:30) Sharing the Gospel on Tour (45:15) False Prosperity Gospel (49:00) Importance of Worship (55:30) State of the Music Industry (59:45) Christ's Second Advent --- Today's Sponsors: A'del — Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠adelnaturalcosmetics.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and enter the promo code ALLIE for 25% off your first time purchase.   PreBorn — Would you consider a gift to save babies in a big way? Your gift will be used to save countless babies for years to come. To donate, dial #250 and say the keyword BABY or donate securely at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠preborn.com/allie⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Every Life — Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠everylife.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and use promo code ALLIE10 to get 10% off your first order today!  Fellowship Home Loans — Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fellowshiphomeloans.com/allie⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and start with a free consultation. You’ll even get a $500 credit at closing. Terms apply. See site for details. Carly Jean — Go to ⁠carlyjeanlosangeles.com⁠ and use code ALLIEB for 20% off your order.  Olive — Olive is a food scanning app that exposes what labels don’t, like seed oils, dyes, additives, even hidden toxins. Download Olive now and instantly see what’s hiding in your groceries! --- Episodes you might like:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Ep 1268 | Islamification Update, Christian Music Dominates & Why Women Aren’t Well ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/relatable-with-allie-beth-stuckey/id1359249098?i=1000737142458⁠ Ep 1223 | The Forrest Frank Formula: Why Christian Music is Trending | Dr. Raymond Lynch ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1223-the-forrest-frank-formula-why-christian-music/id1359249098?i=1000719536332⁠ Ep 1121 | Jinger Duggar Vuolo on Escaping People Pleasing & Setting Biblical Boundaries ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1121-jinger-duggar-vuolo-on-escaping-people-pleasing/id1359249098?i=1000683836661⁠ Ep 920 | Russell Moore, David French & the Fake Threat of Christian Nationalism | Guest: John Cooper https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-920-russell-moore-david-french-the-fake-threat/id1359249098?i=1000638231068 Ep 316 | Resisting Woke-ism in the Church | Guest: John Cooper ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-316-resisting-woke-ism-in-the-church-guest-john-cooper/id1359249098?i=1000495518787⁠ --- Buy Allie's book "You're Not Enough (and That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.alliebethstuckey.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Relatable merchandise: Use promo code ALLIE10 for a discount: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

If you are looking to refinance or maybe you are looking to get into the home that you need or your family wants right now, then you need to call my friends at Fellowship Home Loans. Mike and Brian are the real deal. They are going to bring you excellent service and help you get in the financial position that you need to maybe get some extra margin in your finances if you need to refinance or to make sure that you get the mortgage that you need for the home that you are looking to purchase. They do their business by the book, not just by the book, but by the book, but by biblical principles. Those are the kind of people that you want to trust with such a big decision like this. If you go to fellowshiphomeloans.com, you'll get $500 of credit at closing. That's fellowship homelones.com slash alley, term supply, see site for details, fellowship home loans,

mortgage lending by the book, nationwide mortgage bankers, DBA Fellowship Home Loans, equal housing lender, NMLS, number 819382. is rock Christmas music demonic. That might sound like a funny question, but this was really a controversy that went on when Skillet released their Christmas song, O'Cum, O'Cum, Emmanuel. We've got John Cooper of Skillet here today

to talk about some of the blowback that they got, but also his heart and the very touching story behind it. His testimony, too, woven into the story of why they wrote this song and Yiskelet does what they do is just incredible. You guys are going to absolutely love this conversation. It is brought to you by our friends at Olive. Olive is a food-skinned app that exposes what labels don't. Things like seed oils, dyes, additives, hidden toxins.

This is how we make America healthy again by seeing what is really in our food. So download the Olive app today. Download the Olive app today. John Cooper. Welcome to the podcast. Good to be back. How are you? I'm doing well.

How are you doing? Good. I like all the Christmas decorations. It looks homey in here. Thank you so much. I feel like I need some hot cocoa. Yeah. Well, we got you water. Is that okay? Your water's fine. Room temperature water? Room temperature water is just as good. Do you like cocoa with marshmallows or without? You know, I probably without, I'm actually not that much of a marshmallow gal. All right. I know. It's a big revelations today, unrelated. I'm telling you what. And people are going to be like, I'm not listening anymore. She hates marshmallows. Exactly.

What about you? I go full marshmallow and whipped cream if they have it. Yeah. Like a kid. Like with the sprinkles, too. Yeah. Take it all. You live in a cold place.

Yeah, actually, you know what? We moved to Nashville about a year ago. You don't live in a cold place anymore. Yeah, today it's cold, but no. So... You're the only one moving to Nashville, I hear. I hear no one else is moving there. It's the hidden gem.

That's right. But it is a great place. Good people are moving there. Yeah, so I'm from Memphis. and then my wife is from Wisconsin. And I married into Wisconsin. That was part of the deal. And I took it because she was a good woman.

But after 25 years, I am so glad to be gone. It's freezing up there. It's constantly snowy. You're bringing in snowy mud all the time. Or salt, because it was just salt everywhere. And it's just, I'm so glad to be back in Tennessee. Yeah, into the south. And Memphis, y'all didn't go back to Memphis, though.

No, no, close enough. Memphis has changed. Memphis is a tough place. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I got held up at gunpoint in Memphis before we moved. So that was 2001. Oh, long time ago.

So it's increasingly become a rougher place. Yeah. And I remember getting held up at gunpoint and I was like, I could leave here, you know. Yeah. And then you left for the snow. You're like, this snow's better than this. Yeah. Yeah.

Six in one hand, you know. Yeah. Well, now you're back into the south. Okay. Speaking of Christmas and Hot Coco, you had a Christmas song come out, and I was pumped about it. I thought it was so cool. For those who haven't heard it yet, let's just play a clip of it. It's not 16. Okay, I loved it. The response was universally positive, right, John? Yeah, yeah. For the most part, it was actually. It really was.

But I'm glad you liked it. Thank you. No, I did. But there was a small fraction of people who wanted to sow some controversy. Yeah. Yeah. Controversy. see because it feels so empty. Yeah. That's M&M. Anyway, yeah, it's really funny because so the song came out and well, first of all, it's funny because about a year and a half ago,

so our fan started saying, when are you going to do a Christmas song? Yeah. I remember saying on an interview one time somebody had asked me, are you ever going to do a Christmas song? And I was like, you've heard me sing, right? You don't want me singing a Christmas song. It wouldn't sound good. And all of a sudden, here we are doing

this Christmas song. and our fans loved it. And I remember getting a text from a friend, he's actually a public figure, I won't say who. And he was like, he sent me a screenshot and it was him defending skillet. And I thought, is this a joke? I don't really know what he's talking about.

And I hit back and said, what do you mean? And he sent me this thing about it saying that the song was demonic, but I promise you, no lie. Like an ex post, someone saying, it's demonic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, X. That's right. Yeah.

But I honestly thought it was a joke. So I was like, oh, that's really funny. And he's like, they're serious. And I was like, no, they're not. So I ended up texting because he said, yeah, I saw Lisa Childers defending it and defending you. And I thought, that can't be true. So I texted Elisa. I'm like, is this really true?

And she's like, yeah, short version, people are dumb. Yeah. So that's kind of how the whole thing started. It's a good summary. It's a good summary. That's a good summary for the 2020s. Yes, just in general. I know we were out to, I was out there on X defending you too.

I was like love seeing the gospel proclaim throughout all genres. But yeah, there was, you know, and Twitter is not representative of everyone, not even close. But you have like this loud group of people who believe that, you know, all music needs to only sound one way. And who I don't really know the demonic argument, I guess just because it's loud. and like, I don't know. I don't know what it is. So how did you respond to all that? Yeah, you know, I think for me, I had quite a bit of insight into it. So information that you probably don't know. And so I'm assuming your listeners don't know. So I grew up in a very strict household, Southern Baptist, but my particular church was very, very rule-based. And so, for instance,

I know you've had on your show, you guys have talked about, you know, the Bill Gothard stuff before. Yeah, I've heard some of your... Ginger Duggervolo. Yeah, that's right. I've listened to some of those episodes. So I didn't grow up near as extreme as that, you know what I mean? But, you know, I was taken to Bill Gothard's seminars, you know, rock and roll. During that time, some of the younger people listening to the show might not really know.

Rock and roll was really was seen as maybe the worst thing the devil ever did on the planet ever. And the way that Bill Gothard and the people that follow this viewed Christian rock and roll was even worse. And so I grew up in that kind of family. When I first heard rock music, I was at my friend's house and I'm going to show how old I am. But I was like six years old. And my friend was like, we just got MTV. And I was like, what's MTV? What is that?

He's like music television. And I'm like music tell. I didn't even know what that even means. My mom was a piano teacher. and a voice teacher. My mom sang opera and things like that. So, and he turns on music television, and there's this video from Michael Jackson, Beat It. And I thought this is the awesthest thing I have ever heard. Really? Just immediately, you were like, this is amazing. Oh, yeah. It was just like, I've never heard anything like it. And I came home and I was singing Beat It. And I mean, my mom gave me a

holy butt-whipin, a holy roller-but-wopin. Really? For singing the devil's music. That was like the start of, I mean, I was like six years old of like, this music is from the devil, it will take you to hell, it will make you want to live a life of glorifying the devil and all the things the devil loves. And so I didn't listen to rock music and I was complaining about it. And fast forward, sixth grade.

Sixth grade is usually when people start listening to music on their own, you know, and you start wanting to dress a certain way or hang out with friends and you all listen to the same music. And all my friends were listening to metal. So, you know, this is the 80s. So it's Metallica and Bon Jovi and basically all this awesome music from the 80s. And I was complaining. I was like, there's no way my parents would ever let me bring Metallica home.

And my best friend was like, you know, there's Christian rock music. And I was like, no, I did not know that. And so they gave me a petra tape. And so I brought Petra home saying, mom, guess what? There's Christian rock music. And my parents were so mad. My mom was like, that's even more demonic than Metallica. Okay.

So you kind of understand the perspective that some of the people today have. It was similar to what your mom had back in the day. Yeah, that's why I was so, that's why I wasn't bothered about it. I was like, oh, I know these people. You know, like, I love these. people. I grew up with these people. They really believed Christian music was even worse because it was wolves and sheep's clothing. They're acting like they're drawing people to Jesus, but they're playing beats that come from, you know, African pagan tribes and witches. And they see the drum beats as being

something that would happen during a, you know, around a fire where they're calling on all sorts of gods and goddesses and the gods of chaos because it sounds chaotic to them. The guitars are loud. God is not a god of disorder. He's a god of order. And so there's like all these trails that they would take. I mean, I read all this stuff growing up. And so even as a young person. God is a God of order, not of disorder. That's why I must not like jazz. That must be it. That is why you don't like jazz, actually. I'm like, I always think of that Angela line from the office where she's like, she doesn't like jazz. And she's like, just play the right notes. That's how I feel about Jazz. So there you go. Now I have a theological basis for it. Yeah. I sometimes make a joke in the

studio. If we're recording a song and I play the wrong note and I'm like, oh, sorry, I thought we were doing jazz. Yeah. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Jazz can be a little much, you know. Okay. So I didn't realize that they really felt like the beat themselves was not from Christian culture or something. Yes. Got it. Well, in fact, they would say it's from pagan witchcraft. they would say this is what you, this is what, you know, if you African tribes did back in, and they would call on, you know, gods, you know, it's sort of like what we might think of about like bail worship. What would bail worship be like when they're calling on gods and entering into all the things we know they entered into during those, that thing? Yeah. And so even as a young

person, I mean, I wasn't that theologically astute or anything, but I was raised in a great Christian home. My mom was a Jesus fanatic. So nothing bad I would ever say about my mom. She taught me about Jesus. But even then I knew like some of these things are not consistent. They're not making sense. You know, and they say, well, you can't understand the lyrics anyway. And, you know, my mom would be teaching.

She was a vocal teacher. So they should be teaching opera. Yeah. And I'm like, I can't understand. You're not even singing English. It's like Italian or whatever. It's like, I can't understand what you're saying. either. So it was just like all these

inconsistent things. So they really do believe that it is inherently evil and then particularly doing it with a Christmas song. You're desecrating something that is holy and making it into I even heard some people say that we were

deconstructing Christian music. Things like that. And so, anyway, all that to say is a long story, but it's kind of interesting coming from that world. It is interesting. I kind of know where they're coming from. And for the most part, I know that they're, they care for me and they care for people.

They think they're saving people from Satan. And so all I can do is kind of like laugh at off, really, you know. Yeah. Quick pause. Tell you about our first sponsor for the day. It's Adele Natural Cosmetics. Y'all, I love Adele so much. This is like the best cosmetic company, skincare company.

I use their products on a daily basis. I love their essential cleanser. It works so well for my skin. makes my skin moisturized, bright, but also clean without any harsh foaming soaps or chemicals or fake fragrances, endocrine disruptors, anything like that. It is all 100% natural, completely holistic, and it really works. When I'm not in the studio, I am wearing my Adele makeup and I just love it so much. Go to Adele Natural Cosmetics.com. Support this pro-life, awesome, family-owned Christian company. they are totally unapologetic about all of their values.

Love them so much. Go to Adele Natural Cosmetics.com code Alley for 25% off your first purchase. Okay, but I kind of want to hear a little bit more about your story and how you got into doing what you do. I mean, I know some of it, but a lot of people might not. And then also so curious just about your parents' reaction when you started skillet and all of that. So, okay, so you were in sixth grade. all of your friends were listening to this stuff that you weren't allowed to listen to. There's Christian rock music, not allowed to listen to that.

But eventually you did start listening to non-oper music. So what did that look like? And you all know what's really funny is my son listens to nothing but opera. That is so funny. That's real life stuff. That is real life rebellion of a child against his parents. We've taught him the way you should go and he just listens to opera all the time. That's so great.

Yeah, I don't really know what the deal is. with that one. But anyway, I got so excited about that story. I forgot what you asked me. Oh, how did I get into it? Yeah. Yeah. I think what was interesting for me,

so again, it's not, by any means, I was like Mr. Theology or anything like that. But I did recognize the inconsistency, even as a young person, because we were told, I mean, the church I went to was a Bible-believing church. Yeah. So we were always taught about this, that it's about grace.

It's not about rules. And we were always taught things like the Pharisees, they added all these rules in order to earn God's favor and how that wasn't right. And I would always be like, yeah, but I think you're doing that with music. You know, like, aren't you doing, they say, the church that was fixated, I mean, obsessed, about the way you dress.

So like black was bad. Black was the devil's color. So my mom didn't want me wearing black. And it was like, they were fixated on these really weird rules. Arbitrary rules. And even as a young person, I was like, I just don't see this in the Bible. And on one hand, you're telling me that we don't want to be like the Pharisees. It's all about grace.

But the other thing is, every day, they're fixated on this stuff. And it just, it gave me a really, really bad taste. And again, that is why I can relate to. people when they actually do go through deconstruction. And they have these stories of church hurt and church abuse. I'm like, I actually, I'm against deconstruction, but I know what you mean. I honestly do know what you're saying. And I do think that we could do a better job in the evangelical world of showing the joy we have in Christ. Like instead of just seeming angry all the time, we're not angry. We're really joyful. We love God. So let's fight what we need to find.

and let's calm down about some of the other things. So even as a young person, I really did not understand this weird music thing. I didn't understand the idea that the devil had created a style of music because I remember saying to my mom once, but you taught me that the devil doesn't create anything. He distorts things. So how can it be that he created an evil drumbeat?

Even as a seventh grader, I was like, this doesn't, this isn't adding up, you know? but all that to say, I did want to go away from some of that legalism, and I did go away from that, but I never wanted to go away from Christianity. I never wanted to go away from the Bible or Jesus. I was into that. And so my story is actually kind of funny. I guess I'm saying is, A, I can relate to some of the deconstruction people. I understand what they're going through.

And if anybody is listening that's like that, I just want to encourage them, I feel you, I hear you. don't deconstruct from the Bible. Don't leave Jesus over this stuff. Just get rid of some of the things that people probably goodheartedly added on to the faith that they really shouldn't have. Get rid of that stuff, but don't deconstruct from Christ, you know. That is why I was drawn funny enough to the charismatic church. The charismatic church didn't have that stuff. They were like, we don't care what you look like.

It's all about, are you living in faith, brother? You know what I mean? Are you living the Word of God? Are you listening to God? I was drawn to that because they love the music. They loved Christian music. They're like, if God put a vision in your heart, you got to go after it. And so they were really cheerful about that.

So I do think in some instances there was some good things that happened from that. For me, though, my story, if I could make it even longer, Allie, is basically that. I'm raptured. Not that kind of rapture. But I'm just really focused. Allie's raptured and I'm not. I don't know what that means. Bad sign.

Bad sign. What does that mean for me? I saw the film. Yeah. Well, it means I got my eschatology wrong. But I apparently got the other things right. I don't know what it says about you, John. I don't know.

But I'm very, no, I love hearing your story. It's so interesting. It's kind of funny, you know. So to make it even longer. But this is kind of the sad part of my story. you know, my mom got cancer when I was 12. She fought cancer for three years on and off. For eight or nine months because it's a really long, I don't quite remember.

But, you know, those processes of taking the chemo and going through the surgeries is a really long time. And you don't know if people are going to make it. Of course, cancer treatments come a long way. Thank God in the last 30 years. Yeah. But anyway, it came back again. And she got really sick. She died when I was 15.

So during that time, we were, you know, fighting a lot about music and things like that. And just everything, haircuts, the way I dress. You know, I remember just being... Teenage stuff. Teenage stuff. I remember one time getting grounded because I didn't shave my mustache. It wasn't a mustache. I had a few random hairs.

Yeah. And I kept forgetting to do it, you know. And my parents were like, you're ruining your crue. Christian witness, you look like a drug dealer and people are going to think that you serve Satan. It was always heavy like that, you know. And so when my mom died, I was 15, I was just like, I think a lot of these things aren't real. Jesus is real. The Bible is real.

I think a lot of this stuff needs to go. And I just was like, I can listen to whatever I want to listen to. But the truth is, I still didn't listen to secular metal. I listened to only Christian music. And Christian music was there for me. Really changed me. Helped me grounded in my faith in incredible ways. Petra and even things like Amy Grant, which I was more into metal.

But if you were into Christian music, you had to know who Amy Grant was. And Michael W. Smith and things like that. Striper. And all these great metal bands really helped me because they really sang, most of them saying scripture most of the time. And I just remember thinking if I could play music, like this music has helped me so much. And of course, people got to remember this is before the internet. This is before text messaging. There's those cell phones. You're in your room alone at night. You know what I mean? Speaking of, did you see the film? Do you remember the film I can only imagine?

Yeah. I remember it. Yeah, like in that film, I remember getting choked up at the beginning because the character that plays Bart, who the film was about when he's a kid, he goes to camp and he meets who becomes his wife. And she gives him a cassette tape of Amy Grant and it's called Never Alone. And I was like, I remember what that. I remember those nights.

I mean, we had absolutely nothing. And you felt like no one knew what you're going. How can anybody know what you're going through? Your mom just died and none of your friends have had a death in the family. And you feel so absolutely alone. and you don't know how to talk about it and you don't want to talk about it

but you do want to talk about it and if your friends ask you about it you're like I don't know if I'm up for this but if they don't ask you about it you're like how come my friends aren't asking me about it? It's just a brutal time and Christian music was really really helpful for me

and I thought if I could ever write a song for some other kid that's going through depression suicidal thoughts a death, getting bullied at school. I don't know what they're going through. I would love to do that.

And so when I was 18, I remember I got very serious in my relationship with the Lord when I was 18. And I really believed it with all my heart. I believe God was calling me to play music. The last thing I'll say about it, it was hard because on my mom's deathbed, my mom had gotten very into, like, Word of Faith before she died. Oh, really? So we were Southern Baptist, but she kind of was looking for that miracle, you know. She kind of went Kenneth Copeland-ish, went to some of those things.

And so for the last three weeks that my mom was alive, I didn't get to say bye to her because she didn't want us to lose faith. She was going to be healed. She was in the hospital, didn't want us to lose faith seeing her like that. And if we came to say bye, that would be an admission of not having to have. having faith, you know what I mean? And so, and again, I'm not saying that to, I'm never disparaging about my mom. She's the reason I'm walking with the Lord, you know? So that's not disparaging. It's just a, that's a sad piece of this story, you know. But I knew in my heart I was supposed to be

playing music, but I had been told by people that love me dearly that on my mom's deathbed, you know, she's pumped full of all sorts of, you know, morphine or whatever it is that they give to you when you're in that sort of agony at the end. She was having visions and dreams and whatever. And part of those visions were that one of her sons, me, I was going to lead people to hell through Christian music. I was going to play Christian music and the devil was going to use me to lead people to hell and things like that. So that was also kind of over me. You know, it was hanging over me. but I just knew God had called me to it. And I just was like, you know, this is, I'm 18. This is one of those things. Are you going to do what God's called you to do? Or are you going to, I don't know.

I don't know if I'm stretching to say this, but it kind of felt like a let the dead bury their own dead kind of thing. Not that she was dead, but almost like, I can't live with that over my life. I know God's called me to this. and I don't believe it was real. I just think there were really godly people that were wrong about something.

Yeah. That's kind of heavy today, isn't it? No, but it's actually, it's really interesting to hear how you kind of, how you started because it's not an expected route to get there. It's actually the opposite route. It is. Of what a lot of people would say,

because I don't know, maybe a lot of people would say, oh, yeah, I grew up around this stuff. This is what my parents loved. They were always playing Michael Jackson or Aerosmith or whatever it was. And that's not at all. You had to overcome probably a lot of internal turmoil to say, this is what I'm going to do. And not only did you, it's not that you became Michael W. Smith.

You became skillet. And that is, you know, very different than what your parents may have said that they wanted at the time. Next sponsor is Every Life. Every Life is amazing. They've got diapers and wipes. It's what we use in our home. But also, if you've got a busy toddler and you need training, you need to pull up. You can also get that from every life. Same amazing clean materials. It really works. It moves with

your toddler. We've been using every life products for years at this point. And not only do I love that they're pro-life, Christian, aligned with my values, but they're also really effective, just really good products. They also have the feminine care line made from great materials that really works too. They've got all kinds of stuff. And I just love that they put their money where their heart is. They are supporting their pregnant and adopting employees. They are also supporting pregnancy centers across the country. So ditch the pro-choice feminine care and diaper companies and choose EveryLife. Go to EveryLife.com. Use code Alley 10. You'll get 10% off your order. That's EveryLife.com code Alley 10. Talk about starting out a little bit more. Like how did you meet Corey? How did you form everything?

because some people who are just seeing this one music video who think, oh, this is demonic, whatever, they may not have known that Skillet has been around the block and sharing the gospel through your music for a very long time. Right, right. I think that was part of what was funny is I was like, I think this is the most pushback we've gotten for our sound in like 25 years.

I was thinking, like, I thought everybody knew who we were by now. That group of people would know to stay away from us. Yeah, if they didn't like it. Right. But it is an interesting story. I think a piece of why the story is interesting is that a lot of people in my situation would just leave traditional Christianity. And so I think even this isn't what you're asking me,

but even going back to a few years ago when I began to be very outspoken against things like progressive Christianity, deconstruction, and some people start calling me a fundamentalist, and I started laughing about it, you know. I think that they would have expected, because the music I played, because of my tattoos or the way I look, they'd be like, we would have thought you would have understood. And I'm like, I do understand, but the word of God stands forever. Yeah. The word of God does not change. He changes not. And if you, if you walk away from that, you are in dire straits. You are going down a very, very dangerous path. And I love you too much to let you do that. So I think there's an interesting aspect of this of, of, we never would

call it deconstruction, but letting some of those things go to pursue Christ. What does the Bible say about these things, you know? And so how we got started in college, I met a pastor of a reformed charismatic church, if you can put those things together. Some people listening might be laughing right now. Very reformed, very post-mill dominionist, but also sort of charismatic. And he was also a Christian concert promoter. So he had, in the 70s and 80s, promoted Petra and DeGarmo and Key and all these early Christian bands.

and I basically met him. And when I went to college in Memphis, he said, hey, basically, he said, you know what I like about you? I said, what? And he goes, I can tell you have a passion for Jesus. And I said, I do have a passion for Jesus. He said, I feel like you're someone that in your heart you want to never, ever compromise the gospel. I said, that's exactly who I am. And he said, the problem is, is that you don't know how to live for Jesus.

He said, you're a hypocrite. You just don't know it. and I said, tell me more. And he was right. I knew in my heart I was not actually living for Jesus, but I didn't know what that meant. So he took me under his wing and he became, you know, we went through, do you remember the book,

experiencing God? I think that was Black of Bee. I think, I don't know. Experiencing God was one of those early great devotional series. I think he was a Baptist guy, actually, if I remember correctly. But we started going through that together. and my mind was just blown because I began to understand systematic theology and scripture.

He introduced me to people like Luther and Calvin and people like that. And then I realized that really I was passionate for Jesus, but I really was not living as a disciple. And so it was through that discipleship that he said, hey, you know, you can take these principles into your music. And you can begin to use that for God. Don't waste your life doing it. And that's how we started. My wife's dad, so Corey's from Wisconsin, I'm from Memphis. And Corey's dad was a pastor of a church up there that was sort of a sister church to the one I ended up at in college.

And so one of my pastors kept saying, hey, I know this other girl that plays music like you do. It's funny, she's going to come down and visit us. I want to introduce you guys. He never thought we would end up married. He just thought, oh, I bet you guys would be friends because you both play music, Christian music. And so she came down and I thought she was really cool. And I said to him later, I said, hey, what do you think about, I don't know, me and Corey? And he's like, oh, she would never, she would never like you.

He's like, she's deep and she's educated, she's smart, she's intellectual. And you're like, thanks. Yeah, he's like, you're, you know. He was right. Yeah, I was like, I think that she might feel the same way. So it was a classic opposite to track because she is educated and really. She's a brilliant person, much deeper than I am, much more educated. By that time of my life, I'd only read probably three or four books ever.

You know, I couldn't read. I had a massive ADHD. So I couldn't read and pay attention. And I was way more hyper than I am now, which is hard to believe for people that only know me now. But that's how we started. And that was in 96 and started playing around town. made a record that came out in 96. Never thought it would last this long,

but that's the skillet story. And what year did you all get married? 97. Okay. So next year is 30 years for skillet, 29 for me and Corey. Oh my gosh. That's amazing.

That's awesome. Next sponsor is pre-born. This Christmas, as we celebrate the gift of life, you have an opportunity to share that same gift with a mother and her baby. Imagine a young woman facing an unprofessional. planned pregnancy, feeling alone, unsure of what to do. She's searching for hope, and that is where pre-born ministries come in. So you've got a young woman, and she needs help. She needs answers. If she goes to Planned Parenthood, they're going to tell her, look, there's no way you're going to

finish school if you're pregnant. Just pay us this money. We'll abort your baby. They won't say baby. They'll say they'll just remove the pregnancy, remove the pregnancy tissue, the clump of cells. And she'll be made to feel like it's no big deal. And she can just move on with her life. No one is then going to help her with the pain that she feels, the regret, and the trauma that she's going through. And of course, nothing can bring back that irreversible decision to kill a baby. Instead, when she walks into preborn, she's met with love, she's met with acceptance, she's met with a sonogram with truth about what's going on inside her womb. And then she's given all the tools she needs to make that life affirming baby protecting decision. So partner with

preborn and saving these lives and serving these moms, go to preborn.com slash alley. Donate today. That's preborn.com slash alley. I was reading some of the comments. I was just looking for the tweet that I retweeted and I couldn't find it. It was someone in the midst of all this controversy, you've got people saying, this is demonic, and then you've got people defending you. And I love seeing the personal stories. I saw one guy said that he went to one of your, I guess maybe you opened for Papa Roach, Would that have been correct, maybe? Long time ago? We've done a lot with Popper Roach, but if I remember the tweet correctly, that was back then, yeah.

Okay, so a while ago and that you came out and shared the gospel to all of these people, because Popper Roach, they're not Christian. And so a lot of the people there, maybe I'd never heard the gospel. They weren't expecting to hear the gospel. But was that the kind of thing that you did a lot, especially early on? Yeah, and so let me say this. So when we toured with Popper Roach, to my knowledge, nobody in the band was saved. Yeah.

since then, the singer, Jacoby, is born again, and he talks about his faith. Yeah. And I would have been one along many people who would have had these gospel conversations, you know. You know, that is Billy Graham always said the average person here's seven times. Here's the gospel. Seven times before they, the average Christian before they give their life to Christ. So we all do our little parts. But my point is, is, um,

I only want to say that so people know. Jacobi is his name. A good friend of mine. The band is good friends of ours. Whether they're Christians or not, they were good friends of ours, but Jacobi did get born again. And also, by the way,

sorry, you can tell my ADD kicks in. Sometimes there is a lot of rock stars, I call them rock stars, getting truly born again over the last year. It is something that, you know, in my 22 years in the secular metal industry, I've seen two or three people get saved up until a year ago, and I've got seven, eight, nine friends in the last 12 months who have gotten born again and have begun actually talking about their faith. Are there people that have shared that publicly?

Like, are you able to talk about who they are? The Clint from Seven Dust is someone, I mean, Seven Dust is a very iconic metal band, very outspoken about his faith and several others as well. So it's been pretty awesome. Yeah, that's amazing. I don't want to be like, there's revival. I'm not saying it's revival, but it's a move of God happening. There's no question about that. And it's becoming a little bit more.

People are open to hearing those stories in the rock and roll world, which is really exciting. But yes, Skillet always tried to make it a point to share our faith openly. I sometimes tell people Skillett is the most overtly vocal crossover act of all time. I don't say it bragging on myself. I brag on Jesus all the time. I brag on the power of the spirit to do incredible things that all we have to do is just be faithful and we take no credit for the working of the Holy Spirit as he's doing whatever it is that he's doing. The Father's will, it's absolutely amazing. And we just be faithful in our little task. But we made it a point, if we're going to cross over, we are going to never be ashamed of the gospel. And that's what we try to do. Now, doesn't mean every time we go and play a show that we're talking about the Roman road and we're laying out that you're a sinner. That's not what it's like. But some people don't quite understand.

Do you mind if I preach just a little bit, Allie? Please. Come on, girl, it's time. Let's go. There you go. You can sing too. Yeah, that's kind of singing. Two things I think that some people don't understand what it's like.

Number one, I think they don't understand that. exactly what it's like to be in a situation where no one, in other words, they don't know what it's like to be at a rock and roll metal festival. You don't actually have to come out with a full gospel presentation to be light and salt. You really don't, in fact, it might, in some cases, it sometimes could seem inappropriate, but the point is, is that sometimes it's more powerful. you being just a radical Jesus freak in your life goes an incredibly long way. And I think that the second thing that people don't realize is sometimes the power of the Holy Spirit, because God is always at work.

It might be something that I'm sure you've had these conversations with somebody. Somebody said, Ali, do you remember when you said that one thing, that's what changed me? and you're like, that doesn't make any sense because that thing I said wasn't even that good or D. I don't remember. I don't even remember that. You know what I mean? And you might be like, actually,

I said some really good things to you one time and you never responded. But then this little thing is what did it. And I think that we cheapen the efficacy of the power of the spirit to do things. And so what I'm trying to say is sometimes what I have seen it's things I'm like, oh, I didn't even know. I didn't even know it was a big deal. Can I give you an example?

Yeah. Years ago in 2010, when we first had our first radio hit, I remember packing for tour. I was packing and the TV was on like Letterman or somebody was on. I don't know. It was just packing. And a commercial for the NFL came on. And I was like, oh, I recognize this song. And I was like, oh my gosh, it's my song, right?

So it was my own, but I literally, I didn't. didn't know it. Yeah. And I was like, oh my gosh, it's my song hero. That's cool. Yeah, it was really cool. About three years later, we received an email. And it was from a couple who both worked in the adult film industry. Wow. They made pornographies. And they were watching the NFL one night and they heard this song hero. And they were like, we really like this song. And they were like, we really like this song. I wonder who it is. And this is in 2010. So you had to go on to chat boards. You know, it wasn't like it is now. You know, you can find out everything as easily. So they went on chat boards with the beloved and somebody that is a band Skillet. They went and they sort of

listening to the song. They liked the song. They bought the album. Like the record. And one day they're like, I wonder what this song Hero is about. So they Googled an interview with me. I was just at a mainstream event. I wasn't quote unquote sharing the gospel. They just Aspiana's secular radio interview. So who is your hero? Actually, my hero is Jesus Christ. He laid his life down for me when I didn't deserve it. I hated him, but he died for me anyhow, and he gave me a brand new heart.

And the wife said, maybe I need to go to church. I don't know about this Jesus. Maybe he could be my hero. She starts going to church and she gets born again. Her husband thinks she's a wackadoo, but it's like my wife is not working on the industry anymore, and she's become a holy roller. He ends up getting saved. Obviously, they quit the industry they were working in.

They get baptized. They're in church for three years, and God starts leading them in their hearts to start in ministry to people in the pornography industry, all because of a TV commercial. Wow. and an interview which I did not share the gospel, but I was honest to say, Jesus is my hero. He died for me when I hated him and he gave me a brand new life, a brand new heart, a brand new start. All as if I never send at all. Yeah.

That one little seed. So, yeah, we do preach the gospel. We do talk about the Lord. We do stand up for things. Sometimes I'll preach hardcore. Sometimes I don't say much at all. sometimes all I'll do if we're playing at a metal festival, which we play lots of metal festivals, all that I'll do is I'll just quote a scripture. And that's it. The light shines in the darkness

and the darkness is not overcome it. And it just depends on if we think the power of Holy Spirit is powerful enough to, in that moment, to awaken somebody. Yeah. The word of God doesn't return void. It's going to accomplish exactly what God sends it out for. Yes, that's right. That's amazing. I love hearing stories like that, the ripple effect that seems so amazing to us. And like when you think about it, that you are aware of that, but how many more examples of that are you not aware of that you won't know of until you get to the other side of glory?

And maybe something that you are indirectly a part of. And that is true in the life of every believer. Like what a gift it is when we do hear someone's testimony. Like we might get a message or like a like I might hear. a guest that you had on in 2023. I happened to listen to it. It reminded me of this and all this stuff. And God is so good to show us that. But when it seems like he's doing one of those things, he's doing 10 million of those things. Oh, that's right. All at the same time. All at the same time. Like if people listening don't know my mom, they'll never meet my mom. And she every day is teaching me scripture. She's teaching, she's making me quote scripture. She makes me pray before we go to school. Everybody, has a job to do and you're not going to be aware of the seeds you're throwing out. So everybody listening, you need to go and throw those seeds out, be that gospel mom, be that gospel dad at work. Things like this, it's just as easy as somebody that's working that refuses to pad their numbers.

Why aren't you padding your numbers? Other people are. Why aren't you doing so-and-so you could be making more money if you were willing to X, Y, or Z? And the truth is, everybody's kind of doing it. I don't do that because, XYZ. That kind of life speaks so much about the power of the gospel. Yep. Do it. And there's so many excuses in every industry, but certainly when there's any level of fame

or any level of money on the table, the temptation is always really strong for people. We'll just compromise a little bit. Sure, you're a Christian, but this is how we do things. this is how you negotiate. This is how you get the deal. This is how, no, this is just how it's done. And I think we also have to be comfortable as Christians that, okay, we do the right thing. We follow Christ.

That does not guarantee that it's going to work out well in a material or earthly way for us. It's not, you know, necessarily a movie where the good guy wins in the short term. Right. You know, and we just have to be comfortable to count the cost and say, I'm going to do a what God has called me to anyway. And he's going to use this for eternal glory, but it might feel like we're losing. Right. That is a great point. I wouldn't even mind mentioning this because one of the first times I was on with you years ago in 2020, I think. I can't remember. Yeah, probably about your book. About my book. That's right. I was so thrilled to be on your show.

And you had asked me about the prosperity gospel all the way back then. And at the time, I didn't fully know what the prosperity gospel was. But I did have people that were involved. and I knew lots of people involved in Word of Faith. I've not been in any Word of Faith churches, but I do know a lot of people like that. But this is where I would say now, I would delineate on the prosperity gospel, where I think they get it wrong,

which is what you're saying. What God is guaranteeing you is that if you obey his commandments, you will be blessed. He's not guaranteeing you that blessing looks like riches. So as you just said, well, I could be doing these things in my business and we could make more money and everybody's really doing it. And so you're saying, I'm not going to, I'm going to do it God's way. And but just as I'm doing God's way doesn't mean that now I'm going to be even richer than all those people. It doesn't work that way. But what it means is that by keeping God's

God's, God's laws, his covenant law keeping always leads to covenant blessing, right? Or I believe it does anyway. And that is not prosperity gospel. This is something different. You are going to be blessed, but we give it to the sovereignty of God to say, hey, you choose what that blessing is going to look like. It might be blessing that I can go to bed at night in peace and that my kids can be raised in a home where they go, my dad and mom never compromised. They didn't care about money. They cared about pleasing God, want to be a God pleaser, not a man pleaser. Tell me every parent, Tell me, listening right now, tell me, would you rather trade all the money in the world for that kind of testimony for your kids to see, oh, my parents would not lie and cheat?

Because the gospel is too sweet to them. Yes, you would give up that extra money in a heartbeat. And the extra money probably isn't even that much anyway. Like sometimes you look back on it, you know, sometimes it's really dark, but you think like Judas, he's like, for 30 pieces? Like, just 30. I don't know, not even 60. He probably didn't even live long enough to spend it. No, he clearly didn't. He was on the ground like an idiot. But we all do that. You know, we all end up

selling ourselves short for something so stupid. And at the end of the day, you're like, it wasn't even worth it compared to the greatness of the riches and glory of knowing Christ. It was so dumb. So I would just encourage people, man, never compromise those things, what the world has to offer, even if it's a ginormous amount, it's worth nothing in the end. You count it all poo. Yep. That's what Paul says. So true. Another quick pause to tell you about Carly Jean Los Angeles. You'll know how much I love CGLA. I've been wearing CJLA clothes for a long time. And I love that they're a capsule clothing company so you can buy six really nice pieces, mix and match them throughout the year, throughout different seasons of your life. And this is the way to simplify your closet and

really feel beautiful. It's high quality stuff. It's classic stuff that you can still wear in five years. That's why I love them so much. Plus Carly and her family, they're strong Christians. They love the Lord. They love this country. And I'm so thankful for their partnership over the years. And I love, love CGLA clothes, especially their jeans. So check them out. Go to Carly Jean Los Angeles.com. Use code Allie B for 20% off. That's Carly Jean Los Angeles.com. Code Allie B. Do you think that any of this conversation has to do with why we talked about deconstructing? There's a lot of people in the music industry, Christian music industry, who, you know, sinners like everyone else. But it seems like, you know, we look up to these people as disciples in some way.

They feel to us is like, okay, they've got their theology intact. They love the Lord so much. Wow, they're so passionate in how they sing. And when we hear them say, well, I don't believe that anymore. Or actually, while I was singing that, I was doing this opposite, sinful thing over there. it almost feels like a pastor betrayed, you know? Yeah, it does. And I know Satan has it out for them, probably for that reason.

But like, what's your take as an insider on why that happens? Is it like the material wealth? Is it compromised? What's going on? Wow. I agree with you. It does feel like a pastor. Even if you don't know them, right?

So there are people this is happening to. I'm like, I never even knew that person. but I'm just, I can't believe this. Yeah. I can't believe this. I don't want to go down a path that you're not asking, but I do think that we should at least consider why music is so powerful. And we won't go down that.

This is an entirely philosophical and theological conversation, and some of it is opinion and philosophy. But from the beginning, of the history of the history of civilization, you see people groups using music for religious purposes. Yeah. It's actually only been the last few hundred years that we have this separation between music as art and religion. That's not a thing that happened in history. It was always to do with worship, either to pagan gods or to Yahweh or what have you for celebrations. Right? That's why we have psalms. You know, these were songs. And, you know, these were songs.

things that people sang. They sang to memorize theology and things like that, right, and to tell their stories, which is really beautiful if you think about it. We have a story in the Old Testament that is probably most all Christian musicians favorite, you know, favorite story, but it's powerful. It's King Saul, tormented by demons. Demons that God sent, by the way. I'll let you figure that one out, according to the Bible. Tormented by demons, and he says, to his writing guys. I'm tormented by demons. I need to get a skillful musician to come and play so these

demons leave me. And they call he said, well, I've actually heard of a, there's a young boy, teenager probably, young teenager named David and he's a really good musician and he's handsome. He's a man's man, but he's also

a really good musician and a young David comes in. I get emotional to tell the story. It's amazing. David is is such an incredible character. And he's such a he's a type of Christ as well. So there's a lot of meaningful things there. David comes in and plays and demons flee. And I don't even know, I'm not going to even go down the philosophy of what this means. What we know for sure is that music has an eternal aspect to it. Eternity past, music, angels, singing, creatures, we don't know. Eternity future. You know, people say,

well, you can't take it with you. We're taking music with us. Not, not. literally, but it's always going to be here. There's something so very powerful about music that is leading worship. And even if you deny Christ, you're leading worship. You're just leading false worship. And so music is powerful. We do not understand the power. And do you remember the movie School of Rock? Yeah, the funny movie. Jack Black. He's like, one great rock show can change the world. My brother always makes fun of me because I say, that's actually true. But, it just depends on if you believe, and I'm not getting into weird spiritual warfare here. I'm not into that stuff, but I do believe that that happened in the Bible. And so I do believe there is an

angelic slash demonic element that takes place with music. So therefore, when we see these people that proclaim these songs about Christ that God did use, that was real, part of what happens when we see them leave the faith is we start going, was none of this real to be. begin with because God used that song to bring me to the faith or to make my faith more secure or what have you. It's really hard. It does feel like a pastor. I don't know exactly why it's happening. Some of it's practical, Ali. Some of it is a lot of musicians are on the road all the time so they don't go to church. And that's something that we have always been a part of a church. And we actually kind of made it to where in a certain way, we saw it as we were being sent out.

not as missionaries, but sort of like that. You know, we're sent out. We're still of you. We still talk. We're still involved. You still speak into my life as a shepherd, even though I'm not around a whole lot. But when we're home, we're in, and we are in church, and we are serving in church. Or we are there.

We're at our small group meetings or whatever it is that we're doing. A lot of Christian musicians aren't a part of a church. And I always tell them, like, you're not going to last long. I always encourage you got to get in a church. Or if they are in a church, they're in a church in a way that sometimes church leaders would never come to them and say, I don't know, imagine you have Michael W. Smith in your church. You go to Michael New Smith and you challenge him something on his life. You know, people might be intimidated to do that or they might be like, but he's Michael Smith. He's probably, he's probably super Christian, you know, how could I do that?

Or, and I really hate to say this, but we're all adults. there. Or maybe some of them are bringing so much money into the church. Pastor doesn't want to make them mad. They want that tithe check to keep coming in. I hate saying that, but I've seen too much and I can never go back again. It's like, oh, God, you know, that scripture and this ecclesiastes it says with knowledge comes suffering. That's kind of, this is one of those moments, but it's true. They need that money coming in. I don't know. And the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. all kinds of evil.

So there's lots of things there. Also, the entertainment industry is just, it just tends to be liberal, as everybody knows, and they tend to get out on the road, and you tend to get no accountability, and all that kind of goes together. Also, with a lot of musicians, let's just be honest, a lot of musicians are feelings-based. We are very emotional creatures. We're very like, yeah, but I just feel this. I feel this. We feel too much. And I think that's probably what makes us good at our craft, probably. We play with emotion. You know, if you go and see, I went to see Tommy Prophet's, what's it called?

His worship, his Christmas thing last week. I can't remember what you call it. Something of a king. Birth of a king. And you've got all these amazing, I mean, these singers are unreal. They're not like me. These people can sing, but you can tell these are emotional people. They wouldn't be able to sing the way they sing. It's just so powerful. And then if you get out, you're not in church, you have no accountability. You probably didn't understand doctrine that well to begin with. You started off probably with a good heart to tell people about Jesus,

but that begins to be a recipe for compromise, you know? All really good point. Yeah, that's my thing. Last sponsor for the day is Fellowship Home Loans. Okay, if you are looking to buy a house or if you're looking to refinance, you want to work with people that you really trust, that align with your values. And that's what you're going to get from Fellowship Home Loans. Mike and Brian, who run Fellowship Home Loans, they're the real deal.

They do mortgage lending by not just the book, but the book. They are trying to live out Christian values and everything they do. That includes working with you to get it. the home that you need right now for your family. There's all kinds of things going on with predictions about the rates dropping and all of that, but you don't want to waste time. If you see the house that your family needs and there's a way for you to financially do it, work with fellowship home loans to make that happen. Go to fellowship homeowners.com slash alley. If you use that link, you'll get $500 credit at closing. Fellowship Home Loans, Mortgage Lending by the Book,

nationwide mortgage bankers, DBA Fellowship Home Loans, Equal Housing Lender, and MLSS number 819-382. Okay, where can people go to download O'Cum-O-Cum-Mmanuel and your Christmas stuff, all skillet stuff? Yeah, okay, and I need to tell you this story because you're going to love it, and it's about the song. All right, go to Spotify or Apple Music, skill it, oh-come, O'Cum, Emmanuel. Go to YouTube, the video is really powerful if people haven't seen it.

I found it quite powerful. My favorite response, you should go check it out. I know you got nothing else to do, Allie. So go check this out. You know those, you've seen things on YouTube when people do reaction videos. It's the first time they watch it. There was one, I think that her handle was called former worship pastor or former worship leader. I've never seen her channel before.

I don't know her personally, never knew anything about her. I got this, I think that she's like a deconstructed worship leader and is no longer, she'd probably no longer say she's a Christian, but she's still spiritual and she talks about things. Somebody has sent me her reaction video. It's my favorite one I saw because she's watching the video and through the video she's getting more and more emotional. And by the end, she starts crying. And she says, she's like, if anything could bring me back to the faith, I used to have, it would be something like this. You can see it happening. The video is really powerful. because it speaks to something that all of us recognize, and I'm tying this into why people had a problem with the music.

So I'm tying all of this in together. They have a problem with our version because it gets so heavy. And I'm screaming, really. It's like, ah, it's really loud. It's really heavy. It feels really angry and it's angsty. The reason we did that is because Ocomaicomicon Emmanuel is an Advent song. It is a song singing about the longing for the Savior, the Messiah, that is going to take away the sins of the world.

We are living in not good times. And so, of course, this is singing about the first Advent, but there's also this, you know, already not yet aspect that happened in theology. But we're also longing, come quickly, Lord Jesus for the second Advent. the world isn't right. You meet these kids with cancer and you meet parents who are struggling like my kids had 22 surgeries. I just met someone like this

about four weeks ago on the road. We did one of those wonderful make a wish things when like the kids their wishes to see skill and they bring them out and we meet them and they're like, yeah, I've had 23 surgeries. I'm like, but you're like nine. Like how?

And you meet these parents and the world is, not as we want it to be. And we are longing for that day when every tear is wiped away. So that is why this song gets really heavy like it does because this is a dichotomy we're singing about. The reason I'm telling you this is because most of the song is piano and keyboards, which is recorded on computers.

The second half is guitars, which in drums, which have to be recorded in a studio. Day one of recording guitars in the studio, the heavy part, the part where we're crying out that the world isn't as it should be, I get a phone call that Charlie Kirk has just been shot while we're recording the very thing we are singing about. And I told Corr, I'm like, you're not like you're not going to believe this. this like this is exactly what we're talking about this is things are not right and it's one of those things

that I don't think I'll ever be able to watch the video or hear the song without remembering it was it was just powerful to me you know that's what the song's about and

people can see on YouTube if you want to follow us on socials It's skillet music. Check it out. And maybe even for some of the people that wouldn't like this kind of music, maybe now that you know the story, you'll understand it when you hear it. Wow.

I did not know that part. I haven't really said it in hardly any interviews because it just hadn't come up. Most of them have been mainstream interviews. People might not really get it anyway. Yeah. But for those of us who get it and have struggled with that, like how can, then you have the other. can God let this happen? Where do we go from here? What does this mean? All that stuff all hits you

at once. And we're just crying out like Jesus, just come quickly. How much more can we take, you know? Absolutely. Amen. Well, thank you so much. And thank the Lord for how faithful he is and just how he's used you and uses us all in these unseen and unsung moments of obedience that all believers are called to that he empowers us to do in different ways. Sometimes it's with a microphone, sometimes it's not. But God truly is working all things together for the good of those who love him using all of our different skills and passions. And I just love seeing this in you. And you and Corey are amazing. Corey was it, share the arrows with her friends. And she's just awesome and so sweet. And y'all are just the best. So thank you so much for taking the time to come on.

Likewise. Thanks for having me.