Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1287 | Why Your Aunt Hates ICE: A Spiritual Analysis of Liberal Women

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Starting point is 00:02:19 Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. Yes, God's eternal plan of redemption is still as ever going off without a hitch. Nothing surprises him. Nothing takes him aback. Nothing throws him off. He is never looking down and wondering what is going on. He is completely sovereign.

Starting point is 00:02:36 and over it and his victory is sure I have been thinking over and over again about Psalm 37 for so many reasons. I have had to be reminded that the evil doer doesn't win, that the person who is a rejection of God and a rejection of everything that he calls good and right and true, even when it seems like that person is succeeding, that side is thriving. The truth is that Jesus wins in the end. And one day there will be no more unfair. there will be no more injustice, the evil doer will not have the final word, but God does. And I've heard from so many of you that that reality that I can't take credit for any of the truths or the phrases that I just shared, because it's all from the Word of God has just encouraged you so much. And I just want you to know that it

Starting point is 00:03:26 encourages me too. I don't just say it because you guys like the reminder. It's because it ministers to my heart just as it ministers to yours. And I have to remember who wins or all of this gets really, really sad and depressing. That is where our joy has to come from, where our hope comes from, where steadiness derives from, is that he is in complete control and he is better and more merciful and more faithful and more victorious than we can even understand. So let's just start out our week with that. That God's eternal plan of redemption is always going off without a hitch. And our responsibility is only to do the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed my dad's episode over the weekend. So if you missed it,

Starting point is 00:04:14 twice a month, my dad is going to be putting out his own episodes on Saturdays. And this is by popular demand. You guys love my dad. And obviously, I'm a little bit biased, but I think he's great as well. And I'm just so thankful that he is able to put out these episodes in a way that is so articulate and not only is understandable for all of us, but is very peaceful. He has a way of talking about very complicated and stressful issues in a way that makes us feel like everything is going to be okay. And that's like the best quality that you can have in a dad. So I'm very thankful for his wisdom. And I'm honored that I get to share that wisdom with you all on relatable. And then on the other Saturdays, on the alternating Saturdays, we will be putting out a repeat

Starting point is 00:04:59 episode. Maybe it's a popular episode or an episode that we feel like just it's, it needs to be played again because it's especially relevant. We have almost, I feel like we're almost at 2,000 episodes. I don't know how many. Are we at 1,200? 12. Okay, not almost 2,000. Maybe I could say almost 1,500. We have a lot of episodes. And so we want to make sure that, especially if you're new, that you are getting access to some of the older episodes that we have. One more thing I want to say before we get into the heart of today's episode. I forgot to kind of say anything about this after it ended. But in the month of December and into the month of January, we posted every day several

Starting point is 00:05:40 pregnancy centers across the country that you guys had the opportunity to donate to. So at the beginning of December, maybe it was at the end of November. I just posted on my Instagram, hey, if you run a pregnancy center, make an Amazon wish list or baby registry. and we will post the link to my Instagram. And just like you guys always do, whenever I post anything, whether it's a survey or a quiz or tickets to share the arrows, you guys always blow me away.

Starting point is 00:06:08 I have probably the most, and not trying to brag, it is very enviable to every other podcaster out there, but I probably have the most engaged audience in the world. I mean, I have the best audience. I mean, y'all are the smartest and the kindest and the most generous, but y'all are just so engaged. we like we punch above our weight and engagement so much and so I had hundreds of pregnancy centers reach out to me and say hey we made this Amazon registry we posted it on our stories and then

Starting point is 00:06:38 again y'all just completely knocked it out of the park with your generosity every single one of those centers had boxes and boxes of baby items sent to them for the past month and we had these amazing pictures to show you of the manifestation of y'all's generosity And I've told this story before, but just to show you, again, God's eternal plan of redemption, it's not only going off with that hitch, but it also doesn't always make headlines. So be on the lookout for what he's doing. But one of these pregnancy centers a couple years ago that we did this for, the Amazon driver was delivering all of these boxes of donated items that you guys donated to this pregnancy center

Starting point is 00:07:14 and asked the volunteers and the people who worked there, what is going on? Why are you getting all of these boxes? And they were able to share with that Amazon driver what they do. the gospel with him and he prayed right there for Jesus to be his savior. So I don't even know if we will hear all of the stories and all of the different pieces of people's testimony that were affected by you clicking purchase on Amazon. And that's the amazing thing about God is that we won't see the fullness of the tapestry of people's testimonies until we get to the other side of glory. But God uses the unseen and unsung obedience of Christians every single second

Starting point is 00:07:54 of every single day to accomplish his well and advance his kingdom. And we get to be a part of that. Praise God. So just thank you. Thank you for how much you guys engage and just how generous all of you are. Okay. Today we are going to do a little bit of psychoanalysing and just dig a little bit deeper into not only the spiritual state of our country, but the spiritual state of women in this country, particularly progressive women, those who have taken on social justice causes as their religion. Why is that? What is going on not just psychologically, but really more importantly spiritually. Maybe I should have said spiritual analysis because I think that's a more accurate depiction of what we are going to do today. And those of you who have read my book,

Starting point is 00:08:46 toxic empathy, which we'll talk about a little bit, you are going to recognize the formats of what we are doing when I tell you the story of Renee Good. And you as a conservative probably won't recognize the things I'm saying, but stick with me. You'll understand why I'm telling the story this way, why I'm trying to get you to see this particular perspective. So before we get into that, I'll just tell you a little bit of a summary of what went on. If you missed my dad's episode over the weekend, an anti-ice activist identified as Renee Nicole Good was shot and killed by an ICE agent after she allegedly, purposely, well, it's not really allegedly whether she drove her car into him on Wednesday,

Starting point is 00:09:32 but some people are saying purposely drove her car into him on Wednesday, January 7th, leading to protest nationwide as lawmakers and officials argue over who should be held responsible for this fatal shooting. So let me tell you the perspective of this story that your progressive friends, your progressive mother-in-law, your progressive uncle, the progressive people in your church are hearing to help you understand why they think the way they do and why they've had the reaction that they are having. Before we do that, let me pause. Let me go ahead and tell you about our first sponsor for the day.

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Starting point is 00:11:13 Go to weheartnutrition.com. Use code alley for 20% off. That's weheartnutrition.com code alley for 20% off. Renee Good woke up on Wednesday, January 7th. Indignant. The immigrant community in Minneapolis had been demonized for weeks. She had watched it. And now ICE was involved.

Starting point is 00:11:41 Ice. She had heard stories about them kidnapping children, separating families, arresting people just because of their skin color or the sound of their last name. She watched a video after video on. TikTok of crying mothers and their babies. And now the same thing was happening to vulnerable people who lived right next to her. And so she had to do something about it. Her online activist friends and Facebook groups on Instagram all agreed that America

Starting point is 00:12:08 today is just like 1930s Germany. They all concurred that what's happening to immigrants and refugees now is no different than what happened to the Jews in the Holocaust. And now is the moment they felt to prove that they're. that they would have been on the right side. History repeats itself, but the failures of the cowards of the past would not be repeated and them.

Starting point is 00:12:32 They promised each other that. They promised themselves that. They would be the ones to stand up for the week, to be a voice for the voiceless, and resist this fascistic takeover spearheaded by Donald Trump and his ilk. The drumbeat of tyranny beats louder and louder, but the cries of justice won't be drowned out,

Starting point is 00:12:49 not by this petty racist dictator. If evil is to be stopped, good men and women must do something. Renee knew this. She had been involved in protests before. As a queer woman, she felt fidelity to everyone who fell outside of the norms of the cis hetero-white patriarchy, and she felt obligated to lend her influence to the cause of equality. She was a mother, a wife, a fierce defender of progress for the sake of her children and her country. And as she watched Trump take office and doubled down on his totalitarian Christian nationalist plan to oppress immigrants and women and LGBTQ people, her rage grew.

Starting point is 00:13:33 And it grew and it grew. And her resolve to do something, anything to stop his takeover, it just overcame her. And so on Wednesday, January 7th, Renee and her partner drove to Minneapolis. and the plan was to peacefully use their vehicles and their voices to make it more difficult for ICE to kidnap these migrants. That's what the heroes would have done in Nazi Germany. That's what she had to do now. And at the end of the day, Renee had done her part. She had peacefully protested. She had stood up for the most vulnerable and she was ready to drive home. But before she could go, two ICE officers got out of their car and they started barking orders.

Starting point is 00:14:18 She was confused. She didn't know what to do. One of them was filming her. She told the officer she wasn't mad at him. Her wife was standing outside the car telling him to go away. She just wanted to leave. She wasn't sure what to do. And so she panicked. She turned her wheel. She wanted to get away. She stepped on the gas. She saw him pull out of what is that? Surely he's not gone. shots to the head. The car, still in drive, careened into a telephone pole. Photos of the inside of her car, a Honda pilot, show a glove compartment full of stuffed animals. No doubt, the prized possessions of her son who's just in kindergarten. He came home from school that day to learn that he'll never see, never hear, never hug his mother again. This is law enforcement in this country. This is where we are with immigration enforcement. This is Trump's America. How could any Christian, any person, be okay with this?

Starting point is 00:15:24 This is the perspective that your liberal mother-in-law, your liberal uncle and aunt and friend are all reading right now. This is the only angle they've read or heard or considered. If you believed everything that I just said to be absolutely true, you would be outraged as well. You'd be incensed. Now you might be thinking as you hear my monologue, well, this isn't all true. That's not inaccurate and you're correct.

Starting point is 00:15:56 But that's not the point by those who are telling the story in this way. It's not really about facts. It is about a larger narrative. And what could ever serve the larger narrative of proving that Trump is bad, that deportations are wrong, and that ICE is like the Gestapo. Two ice? Get the . . out of Minneapolis. Donald Trump's modern-day gascopo is scooping folks up off the streets.

Starting point is 00:16:26 These headlines are designed to trigger your empathy. And to trigger it in only one direction and one direction only in René's. This hyper-empathetic response has the power to paralyze your thinking so that you're only drawing one conclusion. You feel so deeply you put yourself in her shoes that you can. only assume one reality, that she is the victim, that she is a martyr and that ICE and Trump are the enemy. And then you even draw bigger conclusions that all deportations and all enforcement of border law and immigration law are wrong or some sort of injustice and are causing chaos.

Starting point is 00:17:10 Now let me tell you a different perspective, a perspective that we're not hearing, but done. in the same style. Jonathan Ross woke up on Wednesday, January 7th. Exhausted. It'd be hard enough to go after the bad guys and there are a lot of bad guys. But it's a lot harder when you're fighting against the local

Starting point is 00:17:31 and the state governments who condemn you and demonize you and the hordes of protesters that sometimes get violent. He knew that from experience. In June, he was dragged by a car at full speed while trying to detain an illegal immigrant from Guatemala. Some of his wounds still weren't healed.

Starting point is 00:17:49 A husband and a father, he knew his job was dangerous, but he didn't want to die. He wanted to go home to them. But he kept showing up doing what he had to do to keep his community safe. If these protesters only knew some of the people he was trying to get out of here, it wasn't just about illegal immigrants from Somalia who had made the news because so many of them have been robbing the taxpayer blind for years by setting up these fake government-run daycares. These people that he was detaining that he was trying to get were from all over, and they were all living in Minnesota thanks to the sanctuary state policies

Starting point is 00:18:28 that walls and other politicians have put in place. One guy was named Tuvong. He was from Laos. He was convicted of sodomizing a little girl and buying a child prostitute. He was one of the guys he was trying to arrest and get out of here. This guy had been avoiding deportation since 2006. Another child rapist from Laos, Chong Vu, had been avoiding deportation since 2004. Three more child rapists.

Starting point is 00:18:54 Two from Laos, one from Mexico, nine convicted murders, one more convicted of manslaughter, multiple DUIs, all here illegally. Children had been violated. People had been murdered. And no justice had been achieved for these victims. These were the people he was trying to. arrest and send home, but the media, the politicians, and protesters were making that job very difficult. The protesters who used their cars were some of the most dangerous. They set themselves

Starting point is 00:19:24 up in a way that makes it hard, if not impossible, for ICE to go where they need to go to get these criminals. Some protesters realize it. Some may not, but these vehicles weigh thousands of pounds and even slow-moving cars can cause life-altering injuries and death. So, when when he found the car leading the protest that day, he and another agent pulled up behind her and got out. At first, they were just going to take a video of her car to get her information. Another woman who seemed to know the driver was taunting them,

Starting point is 00:19:58 and the situation seemed to be escalating very quickly, and it was hard to tell how aggressive these women were. And so Jonathan and the other agent ordered the driver to get out of the car, but she refused. She didn't listen. Jonathan was still in front of her SUV, when the woman outside the car yelled drive drive i said go get yourself some lunch big boy go ahead of the car get out of the car get out of the car oh the woman yelling drive drive

Starting point is 00:20:29 after this happened said it's my fault sot six so the driver had slammed on the gas and it aimed straight at him hit him where was she going what was she going to do her face looked resolved he couldn't risk his life or the lives of anyone else around them. So he took out his gun and shot her through the windshield. That's the perspective that your liberal friends are not seeing. That's what your family is not seen. Now, that's not to say that we should dictate our opinions and perspectives on this by how we feel for each person involved. In fact, that is the exact opposite approach. What I'm trying to point out is that there is a different side to this story. And really the question that we should ask ourselves is not whether we feel worse for Jonathan or worse for

Starting point is 00:21:39 Renee. It's not dictated by how deep our empathy runs for one side or the other. The question is, what is the truth? What are the facts? What really happened? And what is true not only factually and logically, but what is true in general about this issue? biblically. So we'll get into that in just a second. Let me pause. Tell you about our second sponsor for the day. And that is Cozy Earth. Y'all, we love our Cozy Earth products in our house. Love our Cozy Earth sheets. They're so luxurious. Temperature regulating. I love my Cozy Earth pajamas. I wore them just last night. They're so comfortable, so breathable. We love our towels from Cozy Earth. It really is so top-notch luxury, but also affordable, especially with my code. They make

Starting point is 00:22:28 great gifts, wedding gifts, birthday gifts, and they just make your life a little bit more high quality by making you more comfortable. Their loungeware is also amazing. If you go to cozyearth.com and you use my code relatable, you'll get 20% off. That's cozy earth.com code relatable. I know you went over some of this with my dad, but I just want to go through the facts quickly in case you missed that. So DHS posted a video on X taken from a citizen, in a nearby home that showed ice agents and multiple vehicles on the street where Good was parked and a maroon Honda pilot in the middle of the street. Throughout the three and a half minute video, we obviously won't play the whole thing. You can hear whistles were being blown and a car horn

Starting point is 00:23:17 honking repeatedly. And this is not what the video I'm about to play is not to say, see, she deserved to be shot. That's not the case that we're making with this. It's just to show the part that she was playing in this protest and the context of this, that she was actually, some people are saying that she was just on her way home and that she had nothing to do with the demonstrations going on that day. That's just not true. She was a leading part of this. Stop for it. So that is just part of what is going on here.

Starting point is 00:23:55 They're trying to make it as difficult as possible for ICE to make the arrest that they need to make to do their job. She had been a part of these demonstrations in the past. Of course, Jonathan Ross claims that he. was acting in self-defense in that moment. Other politicians, of course, have said, no, that's not the case. Homeland Security posted, the media continues to fail the American people and they're reporting on the events in Minneapolis.

Starting point is 00:24:22 New evidence shows that the anti-ice agitator was stalking and impeding a law enforcement operation over the course of the morning. The evidence repeats for its or speaks for itself. The legacy media has lost the trust of the American people. So obviously we don't know everything that was happening before this, but there was a reason why these law enforcement officers targeted this particular vehicle, decided to get out, to take a video of this vehicle, and to tell this woman to get out of the car. They obviously thought she was some kind of danger in that she had been aggressive or she played a large part in impeding justice.

Starting point is 00:24:59 According to the New York Post, Renee Good was part of a group of activists who worked to document and resist the federal immigration crackdowns. in Minnesota. Renee Good moved to Minneapolis last year where she connected with these local anti-ice activists through her six-year-old son's progressive charter school. It's just so sad. Good in her family lived in a mostly working class, activist-oriented neighborhood in South Minneapolis. It's kind of known for this. She, according to her social media activity, was involved with something called Ice Watch. It's a network of activists focusing on interfering and disrupting ice rates in the sanctuary city of Minneapolis. She was trained against these ice agents, what to do, what not to do. It's a very thorough

Starting point is 00:25:50 training. You can see the Instagram page right here of Minnesota Ice Watch. Also, her partner is a confirmed follower of this Instagram page. And so she was obviously an agitator, an activist. She had been involved in these protests in the past. Her social media posts show this. And again, I am giving you context. I am not trying to, this doesn't have anything to do with the justification of that shooting. The justification of that shooting according to Jonathan and according to that side is that he was being hit by his vehicle and he did what he had to do to stop that threat.

Starting point is 00:26:34 not only the threat to his life, but the threat to the life of people, of the people around him, as you saw from the videos that we played. And if you are listening to this and not just watching this, you need to go watch this so you can actually see what I showed you. The reason that we're talking about this information is because you are hearing a narrative that she was just an innocent mom. She was just someone who was either on her way to work or that she was very people. peacefully and calmly exercising her First Amendment rights. And I am trying to show you that there was a level of escalation and agitation and aggression going on here that led up to this.

Starting point is 00:27:17 Now maybe from your perspective, you still think that this was unjustified, willing to hear that argument. But from the angle of the video we saw, it is clear that this ICE officer was hit with a moving vehicle before any shots were fired. Now, if you have some additional information or perspective to add to that, that's fine, but this should not be as fundamentally heated as it is. The reason that it is is because of this fabricated narrative of both who this woman was, what her involvement was, and the events leading up to her being killed. Now, the biblical perspective here, one of the biblical perspectives on one of the angles of this

Starting point is 00:28:05 is that Renee Good was an image bearer of God, is that she had just as much value as anyone else, just as an illegal immigrant has just as much value as anyone else. She was a human being who will live forever in eternity. This is a tragedy. I truly feel so much for her children. She apparently had three kids. She has kind of a storied past, which I'm not really sure is relevant. And by the way, I think some of the things that I've heard about her past and some of the things that she's guilty of are probably just rumors.

Starting point is 00:28:34 I haven't seen a lot of the things validated or verified about her history of abuse and things. I just don't know if that's true. And again, I'm not really sure it adds to the context. I obviously, we really, really disagreed politically. I think that what she was standing for was wrong. I think that what she was doing was wrong and dangerous. If you try to impede law enforcement and the carrying out. of justice, which is what ICE was doing that day, then that is a dangerous game to play. You are

Starting point is 00:29:03 risking your life. All of that said, this is a tragedy. Her life did matter. I really am sad for her children. I'm sad that she has a kindergarten aged little boy who will never see his mother again, and I'm praying for him. And I'm praying that Jesus would meet him and comfort him and that somehow God would be glorified in this and that the gospel would go out and that there would be comfort and peace in all of this. It is a very sad situation and we need to pray for her family. At the same time, I am not going to demonize ICE. I am not going to blame Trump. I am not going to say, well, this is the problem with our immigration enforcement or this is the problem with immigration policy. I'm not going to say, well, maybe we should just let up on deporting some of the

Starting point is 00:29:48 worst people in the world who have no right to be here. I'm just not, I'm not going to do that. And that is because of the perspective that I have on immigration and justice that we will get to in just a little bit. But first, I want to look into the profile of someone like this and look more deeply into kind of what inspires someone to take on these social justice causes to leave behind their children and to risk their family safety and to risk their own safety and their own life on behalf of illegal aliens who have been convicted of things like child, rape, and murder. So let's look a little bit more into who she is. This is someone who describes herself or who did describe herself as a Christian, as a mother. She said,

Starting point is 00:30:44 her partner said that she was a Christian who knew that all religions teach the same essential truth, that we are here to love each other, to care for each other, and to keep each other safe and whole. She used to go on mission trips. And so she truly believed that this was something that what she was doing was a calling that she had in her life. Good family actually insisted that she wasn't really an activist, despite members of her own social justice community saying otherwise, her ex-husband told the Associated Press that the day the shooting occurred, Good was driving home after dropping off her son to school when she encountered ICE agents. That is a narrative that we are hearing and that seems to be not true. That it doesn't seem to be that she just ran into these people and that she didn't really know what she was doing. Some people said that she's not a part of these kind of activist groups. However, if you look at her social media, she's got pride flags. She's got pronouns. She has pictures on her Venmo of Black Lives, Black Lives Matter, protests and being involved on

Starting point is 00:31:52 some level there. And this profile of this woman who has taken on these social justice causes and in particular these communities that she feels are marginalized is very typical of many liberal white women. In fact, this kind of like liberal white woman archetypal. if you want to call it that, or this profile of this liberal white woman has kind of taken on a life of its own, where you have this idea that all white women are these kind of like blue-haired liberal activists that are very aggressive. And there's something to that

Starting point is 00:32:32 and there's also something mythical about that. But there is something going on with the white woman in America. The white woman in America who calls herself a Christian and has put herself on the front lines of these social justice battles. Why is she doing what she is doing? Who is activating her to do these things? What is motivating her? I think it's worth us as women, as Christian women in this audience to like try to get a better sense of that. So let's look at some statistics of that in just a second. Let me pause. Let me tell you about our next sponsor for the day. And that is Hillsdale College. When you think of America's founding, you might picture the Declaration of Independence or maybe the Revolutionary War or great figures like

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Starting point is 00:34:25 So are American women in a spiritual crisis? That's the bigger question that I want to get into today. Renee Good kind of reinforces a stereotype. Stereotype is actually the better word that I was looking for earlier instead of archetype. She's kind of the stereotype of this liberal. white woman. Is this characterization of older white women as unstable social justice activists accurate? I would argue yes and no. So if we look at like the political demographics of the of the white

Starting point is 00:35:04 woman in America, 36% of white women identify as conservative. 33 is moderate. So I just want to point out there that this stereotype that we hear, like I'm tired of like white women. in general being thrown under the bus. I even see conservatives all the time. Whenever there's like a white woman protester, they always have to point out her race. Like why are we on the right okay with demonizing people because of their skin color when it comes to, when it comes to white people or white liberal women, it just doesn't make sense. Most white women don't actually identify as liberal 33% as moderate. 28% as liberal. That is still a large percentage, but that is,

Starting point is 00:35:46 a lower percentage of progressives in our demographic than any other demographic of women in America. So white women are actually the most conservative female demographic in America. However, this 28% of liberal white women are extremely intense. 46% of white women voted for Harris in 2024. 53 voted for Trump. Okay, so we still have a slight majority over there. But you have this almost half of white women who are very intensely progressive. I think it has to do with this idea of misplaced mothering. And this is not just for white women. This is just for women in general. The idea that instead of pouring your heart and your energy and your natural nurturing and protective nature into children, whether they're your own biological children or adopted

Starting point is 00:36:38 children or children that you're caring for or serving or mentoring, you pour your mothering instincts, born in you and never really go away into pets or plants or politics or your profession. And this kind of disordered channeling of the nurturing, beautifying, cultivating, mothering instinct creates a kind of inner discord and disorder that lends itself to bitterness and can lend itself to instability and lends itself to outsized passion when it comes to social justice projects and social justice causes because the illegal alien becomes your child or the gangbanger becomes your child or this man who thinks that he's caught in the wrong body and just wants to go into the girl's locker room becomes your child. These causes become your

Starting point is 00:37:35 children. The perceived victims in these causes become your children. And this is all triggered by what I call toxic empathy. If you have the perspective that I told you in the beginning, If you read the headlines that I showed you in the beginning, if you watch the videos that I showed you in the beginning, women who are already natural nurturers, natural mothers in some way or another, and naturally empathetic are going to be radicalized. They're going to be radicalized.

Starting point is 00:38:04 And that is why some of the cruelest people that you talk to are the most empathetic social justice activists. In addition to reading toxic empathy, everyone should read the book against empathy. This is by a secular Yale psychologist named Paul Bloom, who talks about this phenomenon that the more highly empathetic someone is, the more indifferent they can be to other people's suffering. The more highly empathetic someone is actually the meaner they can be

Starting point is 00:38:34 to those that they don't perceive as the victim. If you perceive this one person is the oppressed in all of your empathy, you're putting all of your feelings in how they feel, everyone that you see as oppressing that victim becomes your enemy and you become absolutely ruthless to them. I saw this one post by some progressive on X and I'm just calling it out of memory so we don't have a picture of it. But she was saying, I just want people to be more empathetic and to have more a common sense. And people went back in her history and she had these awful posts about Charlie Kirk and these awful posts about Erica Kirk just laughing at them. One of the posts was

Starting point is 00:39:14 two months after Charlie died said it's been two months since Charlie Kirk has said anything bigoted. This is someone who sees herself as highly empathetic, but because all of her empathy is channeled in one direction. And this is kind of the nature of empathy. Because she feels like she is like a mother and protector of all of these supposedly marginalized groups, everyone that she sees is the oppressor becomes the enemy and she is cruel towards them and she will fight them tooth and nail. This is what happens to a lot of women. And I thought it was interesting, this biologist, Brett Weinstein, who we've had on our show. We had him on our show several years ago during COVID, I believe.

Starting point is 00:39:53 He was on Joe Rogan talking about, he doesn't call it misplaced smothering. I think that's like that should be the title we've been talking about it on our show for a long time. But a couple months ago on the Joe Rogan episode, he said this, seven. What people do is they take the energy, you know, the seriousness of purpose that would ordinarily be directed into managing a marriage and the role of being a parent, and they put it into something. And Heather has pointed out that this is especially powerful with young women who seem to take on causes, you know, and they defend them like a mother defending her child. That's a very powerful force.

Starting point is 00:40:39 Yes. Now, he would say that that has to do with evolution and, you know, evolving in the wrong direction. And I, of course, would say it is disorder and it is denying your God-given mothering instinct and perverting it and using it in the wrong direction. Again, I'm not saying that everyone has to be a biological mom. God may have called you not to be married, but I think that your mothering instincts, your nurturing instincts, your nurturing instincts, whatever they are, still need to be channeled in some way towards children, whether it's mentorship or serving in your church or helping those who need help or teaching or educating, whatever it is. Those mothering instincts can't be primarily channeled towards your political cause or

Starting point is 00:41:27 your profession or your pet or your plant or else there is this inner dissatisfaction and discord that again, I think manifests itself in resentment. Now, I do think it's relevant to talk about the percentage of antidepressants. They're called antidepressants. It's a misnomer. If you listen to my show, you know that. SSRIs are extremely common among this demographic. 22% of white women specifically reported using antidepressant medication according to national health and nutrition examination survey. This is 2015 and 2018. So I think it's a lot more now. In fact, I've seen like it's upwards of 30%. There's another graph that I saw. And this is higher. This is like the, most prevalent demographic or this demographic most prevalently uses SSRIs. And I just do wonder if it has to do

Starting point is 00:42:20 not only with this misplaced mothering that I see go on, especially in this group of women, but also just the content that targets this group of women, especially the liberal white woman, like Brene Brown, like Rachel Hollis, like Glennon Doyle, like all of these people that tell you to put yourself first and to love yourself and to cut out anything that doesn't serve you or fit your vision of what a beautiful, pleasurable life should be, this God of self always leads to misery. And it causes all kinds of disorder, causes all kinds of discord. And I would also say depression. Like the search for fulfillment is going in all of the wrong places. The foundation for individual rights and expression.

Starting point is 00:43:08 did a survey that surveyed undergraduate students, age 18 to 22, showed a clear gender difference in political leanings. 55% of these females identified as liberal, 15% of conservative, males were 40% liberal, and 25% of conservative. Certainly you're going to see that in colleges. There was another study in December 2025 that revealed that women were less likely the men to approve of Trump's job performance on immigration. they're more likely to believe than men that ICE officers should not be able to hide their identities. In 2018, an Axios report said that women are among those leading the charge in efforts to reunite immigrant children with their families in response to the zero tolerance immigration policy and family separation. And it is all because these women are led by their empathy and led by their instinct. to mother. And I just want to read you, I just want to read you a few passages from my book,

Starting point is 00:44:14 Toxic Empathy, that just remind us of the other side of this issue and why empathy is not a good guide. Empathy blinds you to both reality and morality. Empathy makes you focus on only one person on the side of the moral equation. It makes you forget about the rights and the needs and the privacy and the fairness for the person on the other side of the moral equation. Okay. So I really encourage you to read. If you read no other chapter, I really encourage you to read the immigration chapter from toxic empathy.

Starting point is 00:44:47 It was my favorite to write. And it was also, it was very difficult to write because the statistics are all so incredibly heartbreaking what illegal immigration does to the safety and the security of our country and how children. have been, have been affected by this. Let me just read you these stats. In fiscal year, 2003, Border Patrol recorded 1,254 illegal immigrants convicted of assault, battery, or domestic violence, 2,493 convicted for driving under the influence,

Starting point is 00:45:21 2005 for illegal drug possession and trafficking. That's just those arrested, trying to convict it. In fiscal year 2021, Border Patrol made nearly 1.7 million apprehensions of illegal immigrants. there was this story that I told of a Border Patrol agent finding an infants would look like a newborn and a toddler just stranded in the desert by these drug traffickers and these human traffickers. Human trafficking and drug trafficking is enabled and exacerbated by open borders. If you care about those children, if you care about the truly vulnerable, then you will want to shut down our borders and you will want to enforce deportation the very thing that ICE was trying to do in Minneapolis that day. I just want to give you also the logical perspective on this as well as the biblical perspective before I move into the next thing. So this is what I write in this book. Every nation has a right to sovereignty. Sovereignty is legitimacy. A nation's legitimacy is necessary to enact and enforce laws which represent the rights of a country's citizenry. If a country has no borders, it has no

Starting point is 00:46:25 sovereignty. If it has no sovereignty, it has no legitimacy. If a country has no legitimacy, it has no authority to create laws. If it has no laws, chaos ensues, rights are laws. And sores. in citizenship means nothing. A country without any meaningful citizenship isn't a country at all. Every sovereign nation must have the right to enforce immigration policy that protects its citizens and their rights. It's not only our right to do so, it is also our responsibility. Remember Romans 13 that the government was instituted by God to reward those who do good and to punish those who do evil. Those who think that it is immoral or it is unjust to deport people who are here illegally have no problem locking their own doors, having their own walls, deadbolting their own fences.

Starting point is 00:47:16 And the truth is nations are like families. The government is supposed to put the interest in the well-being, the safety of our people first. Just because you lock your door and you don't let any stranger come into your home doesn't mean that you hate your neighbors. It doesn't make you bigoted. It means that you love your children. If you allowed people that you don't know that you haven't vetted into your home to sleep in your kid's bed and to eat your kids' food, you wouldn't be a good neighbor. You would be a bad parent. Likewise, our government would be bad if they were not sending ice into these cities to deport illegal aliens who are not only here illegally, that would be enough to deport someone, by the way, every government has that right and responsibility to maintain that

Starting point is 00:47:59 sovereignty that we just talked about, but also to deport the worst people in the world. We're talking about people who raped a child. And you want to impede that justice? That is the God-given and righteous responsibility of any government. And Christians should be for that because we serve a God of peace, not a God of disorder. We understand that disorder and chaos, are curses for a nation and that God is a God of order who places in a garden, not a jungle. From the very beginning, we see that orderliness is a gift and a blessing for image-bearers of God. And for nations, that's why he created laws. That's why he created borders.

Starting point is 00:48:42 That's why he created nations. That's why he created governments. And that's why the Tower of Babel and what befell those people when they were trying to be like God and build a tower up to God of chaos. and not being able to understand each other and speaking in all different languages, that was a curse. What happened after the Tower of Babel, having all different people speak in all different languages and not being able to understand each other was a curse. It was a curse then and it's a curse. Now, it's disorder, it's chaos, tough immigration policy is good. It would have been good for Lake and Riley. It would have been good for Kate Steinley. It would have been good for those kids who were trafficked by coyotes through

Starting point is 00:49:23 the desert. It would have been good for all of those children who were raped or assaulted or kidnapped or harmed the people who were killed, the people who have died because an illegal alien was driving under the influence. If we had tough immigration policy, those people would be alive. Because remember, the difference between a crime committed by an illegal alien and a crime committed by a citizen is that the crime committed by an illegal alien was completely preventable. So Christian, you have to understand that as image bears of God, as followers of Jesus Christ, who follow a God of order, that we are to be agents of order. That doesn't mean that we are apologists for all law enforcement.

Starting point is 00:50:08 That doesn't mean that we say, hey, treat people with as little dignity as possible. That doesn't even mean that we are trying to defend every action that, you know, that ICE does. it just means that we don't use a tragic situation like this to try to de-legitimize the very good, righteous, and yes, compassionate efforts to enforce our immigration law. We should be supporting ICE. We should not be using this opportunity to demonize them. And I also just want to remind you that those who claim to be the most empathetic and to care the most about social justice issues, that they are very disproportionate in their outrage,

Starting point is 00:50:48 that they allow the media to dictate their outrage. And you'll never see them talk about things that don't actually fit the social justice narrative. They'll talk about the tragedy of deportations when Trump does them, but not when Obama did them. He did more than any other president. Not when Biden did them. ICE existed and functioned under Democratic presidents too.

Starting point is 00:51:10 And you didn't see these kinds of protests, these kinds of outrage or this kind of outrage from your favorite social justice pastor on. Instagram. It's only when it's in vogue and when it's mainstream and when they deem it is safe to do so. So we'll talk about this more in just a second, but let me pause and tell you about our next sponsor, and that is Good Ranchers. So thankful for Good Ranchers. I love having a freezer full of Good Ranchers meat all the time. I never have to wonder what am I going to have for dinner. I have a choice between all American seafood, whether that's shrimp or cod or salmon or beef or

Starting point is 00:51:48 steak, all different cuts of steak, waggo, chopped beef, they're ground beef. It comes in patties or not patties better than organic chicken, pre-marited, not pre-marinated. I have such a wide variety of all-American meat. I love that I'm supporting an American company. And also all American farmers and ranches. I just don't get that guarantee when I am in the grocery store. So you should buy from good ranchers this year. We should celebrate America's 250th birthday. It's amazing. We should recommit this year to supporting American industries, especially the meat industry that is so unfairly demonized.

Starting point is 00:52:24 Go to Good Ranchers.com and use code Alley at checkout. You'll get $25 off your first order on top of the $500 you'll save just for subscribing. Good Ranchers.com code Alley. Okay. So my audience knows of this person, but you might not know of this person if you haven't listened for very long. I want to remind you of the last person, the last person who was shot by a cop in Minneapolis. Wasn't George Floyd. He wasn't shot.

Starting point is 00:52:59 He was leaned on and we don't have to re-litigate that story. But you remember what happened after George Floyd, all of the outrage throughout the country, the businesses that were burned down, the innocent people that were murdered by rioters. I mean, that's the definition of injustice, punishing something. for someone for something that they did not do, punishing and innocent party. That's what happened after George Floyd and you had even professing Christian saying riots are the voice of the unheard. We have to understand this perspective. No, I didn't understand that perspective. And I will never justify those riots. And I will never say riots are the voice of the unheard. And I will never

Starting point is 00:53:42 perpetuate this false narrative that the police are unfairly targeting black people or queer people we just don't see that hold up and I'm not going to perpetuate this narrative that America has been systemically racist and unjust. I'm never going to push that. Even if it's more empathetic, even if it's the polite thing to do, I'm not just going to post the black square and repeat the BLM talking points because it's what everyone in and outside the church is doing. I am going to ask, but what is actually just? And has something like this happened before and what was the response then? because that is how we know if we are being truly impartial. There was a woman in 2017 by the name of Justine Damon.

Starting point is 00:54:25 She was an Australian-American yoga teacher. She called the police in 2017 because she heard some strange noises in the alley behind her house. She thought someone was maybe being hurt. So she called 911 and an officer showed up outside. of her home, his name was Muhammad Noor, and he was an immigrant from Somalia. And when Officer Noor showed up, she looked outside her window and she went outside to approach the squad car and to tell Officer Muhammad Noor what she had heard. And there was another officer there. His name was Matthew Herody. And he said that

Starting point is 00:55:09 Damon was talking to the officers, that she was engaged in a conversation, trying to tell them what was going on, and that Muhammad Nour, for reasons we still don't understand, who was seated in the passenger seat of the police car, shot through the driver's open window at Justine Damon, shot her in the chest, and she died immediately. He was sentenced to only 12 years in prison, 12 years in prison, and was convicted of third-degree murder and manslaughter, the Somali-American officer who shot this white woman Justine Damon. Now, you might not have ever heard that story because there were no riots, there were no protest, nothing burned down. There was no

Starting point is 00:56:00 shouts and insistence upon saying her name or rest in power. Your favorite social justice activist, your racially conscious pastor didn't post anything about her. And in fact, in 2021, the Minnesota Supreme Court overturned Norr's murder conviction due to insufficient evidence, sending the case back to the district court where he would be sentenced instead for the manslaughter conviction, went on trial in 2019, Nor testified that the loud noise made him fear for his inheritance lives, leading him to fire through the window. So he was spooked. He wasn't approached with a vehicle. This woman wasn't armed. She came out side in her pajamas.

Starting point is 00:56:50 An attorney, Caitlin Rose Fisher, who worked on Nora's appeal, said that he really believed that he was saving his partner's life that night. And then instead, he caused the loss of a life. Sitting in the passenger seat, shot through the window, shot her in the chest. He only served three years in prison. And then Muhammad Nor was released. Now, I want you to ask yourself, if this had been an ICE agent who killed a liberal woman, Or if this had been a white police officer who killed a black man, would you know his name?

Starting point is 00:57:25 Minneapolis would have burned. All of your favorite Christian podcasters would have had a monologue on it. BLM would have raised a lot of money. But you don't know her name. And the only reason you don't know her name, the only reason there weren't protesters, the only reason there weren't demonstrations for hers, because she's white. And because the police officer was Somalian, it doesn't fit the narrative. So I'm sorry, like, if I don't believe your sincerity when you're posting about this.

Starting point is 00:57:58 Like, if you don't have anything to say about the slaughter of babies inside the womb every day, like, if you don't have anything to say about Lake and Riley or Kate Steinley or the children who have been affected by preventable illegal immigration. Like if you don't have anything to say about things like that, then I just question how much you really care about justice. I think that you're trendy. I do think that. Like I think that you care when it's trendy to care.

Starting point is 00:58:31 And I think most of the time you're not paying attention. Your life is kind of like la-di-da. And then when enough people bring it to your attention, you pretend like you've known all along what's going on. and that you're just raising awareness because this is just close to your heart. Okay, let's see a post about Justine Damon. Raise awareness for her. Or is your outrage really just dictated by the amount of melanin that someone has?

Starting point is 00:58:57 If that's the case, then you don't care about justice the way that God defines justice. God's justice is impartial. And all of us are imperfect. He is the only perfect lawgiver. So, like, we certainly should be praying all of us for his, grace and his guidance. We also can see this just disparate reaction. Like when you look at GoFundMe, there's a GoFundMe for Arena Zarutzka. Remember her. She was the Ukrainian refugee who was in Charlotte and she was riding on public transit after her shift ended and she was

Starting point is 00:59:35 murdered. She was randomly stabbed in the neck by this guy who had a really long rap sheet. But You didn't see riots and burning down for her, even though it was a black man who killed a white woman. It didn't fit that narrative. But then you have this woman who tried to, I believe, run over this ice agent with her vehicle. $1.5 million has been raised for her. That's pretty stunning. You also have people at the Golden Globes like Ariana Grande. and Mark Ruffalo.

Starting point is 01:00:14 They're wearing their little pins. You've got Ariana Grande wearing a pen that says stop ice. And this person on X points out the irony here that the Golden Globes had a border. Like it had a hedge. And it's got dogs and it's got guards. It's got armed security officers.

Starting point is 01:00:40 Like if I tried to go in there and cause chaos, like I might have, I mean, someone would have been shot for doing that, possibly. They at least would have been tackled. What do you think Ariana Grande's house looks like? Do you think her gates are open? Do you think that she has a lock on her door? Do you think that she has bodyguards? No, it's just that these people believe that they deserve security and that normal Americans who can't afford to live in gated mansion. communities deserve to bear the brunt of it and that innocent moms and dads in Minnesota

Starting point is 01:01:19 deserve to be stolen from by Somalian migrants. That's what they believe. They don't live like us. They don't have to bear the risk as we do. They can just score the points of being superficially or seemingly virtuous. That is what a virtue signal is. Okay, there are a couple stories that you might not have heard about that I also want to point out that just goes to show that we only care, so many people only care about these stories when it's trendy. But let me tell you about our last sponsor.

Starting point is 01:01:54 That's Patriot Mobile. Patriot Mobile is America's Christian Conservative wireless provider. They are also an activist organization. They're funded by selling top-tier cell phone service. but what they are actually doing with those hardener dollars is not just giving you like really great service and allowing you to vote with your dollar they are supporting the causes that we care about they're supporting the pro-life causes they are supporting our veterans our first responders they are trying to advance the values of faith family and freedom so it's just a win when you switch over

Starting point is 01:02:25 to patriot mobile they are backed by 100% US based customer support you can get unlimited data plans mobile hotspots international roaming and more you are helping to grow the Christian conservative movement when you switch to Patriot mobile. Go to Patriotmobile.com slash Allie. That's Patriotmobile.com slash Alley. I just want to shine light on this because this happens, I don't know, maybe 100 times more. I don't know the exact number, but 100 times more than what we saw with Renee Good. I'm not saying you can't care about that and be sad that a life was lost. But again, like if we're going to talk about the issues that are affecting innocent Americans every single day, it's things like this.

Starting point is 01:03:10 this poor woman by the name of Caitlin Stup was taking a bus to work in Houston just the other day, 25 years old when two rival gang members shot at each other. They saw each other. They tried to kill each other. And instead, they shot Caitlin. And she was murdered by their gunfire. Both suspects possessed their firearms illegally because, by the way, like repealing the Second Amendment or getting. rid of gun rights is not going to stop criminals from getting guns. One suspect was out on reduced

Starting point is 01:03:46 bond for robbery with a deadly weapon, while the other was out on probation for attempting to commit aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon. This is where empathy politics get us. This is where social justice gets us because these two guys, Patrick and Braden, who killed this woman, one of them is smiling in his mugshot. They should have been in prison probably for the rest of their lives, long rap sheets, history of violence, but because of DEI initiatives and racial quotas and activist judges and activist DAs who think there are too many people of one race behind bars, well, they're going to reduce the sentences. They're going to make sure that the punishment is light because they want to be able to say that they're not putting black people

Starting point is 01:04:35 in prison. They want to act like they are committed. to the way or the purpose of equity. And so these people get out and they kill innocent women like this. I saw another horrible story, a man named Harold Harper in Florida. He was gardening in his nice neighborhood. And then a random guy, of course, again with a long rap sheet, he comes behind him, total stranger with a pistol. This is just the other day. shoots him in the back of the head and murders him. And this kind of stuff has been happening since Kane. I'm not saying that all of it is preventable by policy, but a lot of it is. Like that is the lawlessness, the chaos, the injustice that is hurting innocent Americans every day because our leaders do not have the political will to do what

Starting point is 01:05:27 it takes to punish wrongdoing. You guys know, I've said, and this is an unpopular position on the left and the right, but I absolutely stand by it that if we evenly and equally doled out the death penalty just for murder, let's just start with murder. Quickly, after due process, two to three days after someone has been proven guilty, every single time in every single jurisdiction, the murder rate would drop. I saw this amazing quote by Thomas Soul the other day and was like, say what you will, about the death penalty, but it has the lowest recidivism rate. of any form of punishment. And that's absolutely true. We don't take justice seriously in this country.

Starting point is 01:06:11 Social justice, which is not real justice, like it gets all the attention. It makes you feel warm and cozy on the inside like you're a good person, but people like this are still dying every day because of these social justice, progressive, toxicly empathetic politicians. And because of all of the people and all of the so-called Christians who think that they are being good by actually, deterring justice when it comes to immigration and crime. Like I am so tired of sacrificing the best people in our country to the worst people in our country, all because we don't have the will to do what is right. Again, what is the responsibility of the government as instituted by God to punish the wrongdoer and to reward those who are doing good as agents of order? We should be advocates of that.

Starting point is 01:07:01 We should be advocates of partial justice. And like these are, matter to me not only as a Christian but also as a mom because I want my kids to grow up in America where we can say, yeah, you can go outside. You can roam the neighborhood. It used to be, well, just don't go to that part of town or don't go out at night. Now it's just stay inside. Because you never know what's lurking around the corner. I'm not saying we should live in paranoia. We actually just shouldn't because our days are numbered by God. But you understand the growing concern, lawlessness creates chaos and it creates a mistrust and we can't live in that kind of society. So I just, I hope and pray that we have leaders who are willing to do what is right

Starting point is 01:07:45 for the sake of the most vulnerable. All right, that's all we got time for today. We're going to have a different kind of episode on Wednesday. We are going to be talking to Bryce Crawford. We don't usually do interviews on Wednesday, but that's going to be our theological episode. It's to be so good. If you don't know who he is, he's an evangelist and he's awesome. And we're going to be talking about some other things. And then on Friday, we will be interviewing Harmeet Dillon. She is the head of the Civil Rights Division for the United States. What she is doing there right now is very different than civil rights leaders of the past. And so we're going to be talking about some of these issues and what she is spearheaded in that department. Super good conversation.

Starting point is 01:08:22 All right. That's all you got time for today. We will be back here on Wednesday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1287 | Why Your Aunt Hates ICE: A Spiritual Analysis of Liberal Women

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