Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1290 | Why Is Israel Dividing the Right? Here's the Real Reason | Dr. Frank Turek

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Starting point is 00:01:15 You can not only read the Word of God, but listen to the Word of God when you are going about your day. If you go to Dwellbibble.com slash Allie, you get 25% off to 50% off depending on your subscription. That's Dwellbibble.com slash alley. Frank, how are you doing? I'm doing, I'm just tired because I've been doing a lot of traveling, but I want to tell everybody who's here. Did everybody see Ali Beth on Jubilee? Wasn't she amazing? That's very sweet.

Starting point is 00:01:50 No, I mean, it's true. Well, I called Frank the night before. I called Frank the night before and I was like, I need some advice on how to handle this and it was very helpful. She, well, she knew what to say anyway. Charlie gave her advice to before that. He did. So you represented Christ very well. Well, thank you very much.

Starting point is 00:02:09 What is it like to be here this weekend without Charlie? As you know, it's more bitter than sweet, but I'm still amazed at how TPSA does this. Yeah. You know, three months after their leader's been murdered. And then, of course, the memorial service was amazing. These people don't miss a beat no matter what happens. It's incredible. Because Charlie was so good at picking talent, which is why it's ludicrous that Candice Owen

Starting point is 00:02:38 has suggested that the tbUSA has betrayed him ludicrous and you've been very eloquent on this by the way okay so how do we push back against it's just been such a discussion such a debate especially on the right like what our role is if we feel like someone is making a false accusation or is pushing a theory that is just not founded in reality what is our role as christians to speak up against that I think the same thing the Apostle Paul did. The Apostle Paul spoke up against false teachers and heresies. And it's interesting to me, Ali, that both Jesus and New Testament writers refer to Satan as a murderer, a liar, slanderer, and accuser. We had a murder, and then what did we have that followed it?

Starting point is 00:03:26 Lies, accusations, and slander. This is spiritual warfare. Right. And right now, I don't know her motives. but Candice Owens is on the wrong side of this because she's slandering people, she's accusing people, she's lying. She said, oh, if Erica asked me to stop, I'll stop.

Starting point is 00:03:44 She'd stop. She's still doing it. So I think what we need to do is, as we're doing, and I don't know if you saw Ben Shapiro here the other night, but he was very clear to call out that this is wrong, and he's not even a Christian. He's just saying, we have to deal in truth here.

Starting point is 00:04:01 And when we're accusing people of murder, You better have some really good evidence if you're going to do that, and she doesn't. Yeah. So I guess that's your answer to those who say, well, she's the only one asking questions. This is how investigations go. We have to pursue every lead, make sure every stone is turned over. What do you say to people who say that? I will say you can ask questions, but not the complex question.

Starting point is 00:04:26 The complex question is something like you ask a man, when did you stop beating your wife? There's an assumption behind the question. Oh, he's a wife beater. right? This appears to be what Candace is often doing. Why did Mikey turn away immediately and get on his phone? Oh, he must be up to something bad. No, he was doing exactly what Charlie told him to do. And you have had some very eloquent podcasts on this. You've talked about the right way to deal with this. And I think people ought to look into that. And I also want to mention, for people that don't know, I have a friend, Jay Warner Wallace, a cold case homicide detective. I had them on my podcast twice to talk about this.

Starting point is 00:05:06 He points out that the prosecution is not going to reveal the evidence that they have or even what they're doing. Because if they do, they're going to jeopardize the case. Why are they going to jeopardize the case? If they say, for example, they're looking into a second shooter, they don't know if somebody comes forward and says, oh, I saw the second shooter, whether that guy really saw the second shooter or he is just trying to make a name for himself, right? Or if they say, we have witness X. they don't want to tell you they have witness X

Starting point is 00:05:34 because what is the media going to do and the defense going to do? They're going to go after witness X. In fact, I think this happened in the O.J. Simpson trial, if I'm not mistaken, there was a woman who saw O.J. leaving the scene and the prosecution made it known that she was a witness. She wound up selling her story to a media outlet and then she was invalid as a witness because she had been bought off, they say.

Starting point is 00:06:01 So the prosecution is not going to tell you what they're doing. I know they're checking into conspiracy theories. Why? Because I was the subject of one of them. The guy in the white hat, the stupid white hat theory you heard about. I was signaling the shooter. They called me on that. The FBI said, well, you signaling the shooter?

Starting point is 00:06:16 I said, yeah, I was telling him to steal second base. Like, are you crazy? Yeah. It makes no sense. You don't need to signal anyone. The guy knows who Charlie Kirk is. He's the guy under the tent with the microphone. It's ridiculous.

Starting point is 00:06:29 But it does go to show that, because a lot of the guy, of people have said, why is it the FBI doing this? Why aren't they asking this person? I don't think that we are privy to all of the things that the authorities are doing, not saying that we should blindly trust any government institution or any institution at all, but what you're saying is you did get called, even though it was a conspiracy theory. They did call you. Yes. And by the way, the FBI is not the lead. The Utah police are. Now, I would be more skeptical if this, if the Biden DOJ was in charge and we were in, say, California and we had a liberal DA, I would be even more skeptical, but we're in red Utah. There's a Republican there, and of course, Dan Bongino,

Starting point is 00:07:06 who's now left, but the Cash Patel, they're all friends of Charlie. So I don't think they're going to fudge anything. And all this is going to come out at trial anyway. So we have to wait for the trial. Not that we can't ask questions, but the questions are not going to be answered by the prosecution now because they'll taint the jury, they'll jeopardize their case, they have to be very methodical and hold their cards close to the vest. And anybody that's done a prosecution, particularly a murder trial, will tell you this is the way they do it. Okay, if you were watching this, I'm recording these ads remotely from my mom's office. And in here, if you could see, she's got all of these pictures, VHS tapes, all of these CDs, different memories of growing up

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Starting point is 00:08:23 That's an amazing deal. Legacybox.com slash alley. Are you surprised at how divided we have become, over Israel? It is a little odd, but let me just say that Jew hatred is not a conservative value. So why would we want to be conserving Jew hatred to begin with?

Starting point is 00:08:46 If you hate Jews, I don't consider yourself a conservative. I shouldn't, I wouldn't consider yourself a conservative because you're not conserving what is good, right, and true. So I don't know why. Other than this is more spiritual warfare, we're getting people in saying, oh, I voted for Trump, but I hate Jews or I hate Israel. So what do you say to the people who say,

Starting point is 00:09:05 well, I don't hate Jews. I don't hate Israel. I just think that we're taking too much money from A-PAC, and I just want to criticize Israel. It's not Jew hatred. That's fine. You can criticize Israel, but I always ask people who say that, have you read the Hamas Charter? And they always say no. Except I had one guy today had proved me wrong, said yes. Tell us what it is. The Hamas Charter basically says that the only way forward is to kill Jews. Jihad is the only way. And they say in there that all these conferences to have a two-state solution are a waste of time because they don't want a two-state solution. They want a one-state solution.

Starting point is 00:09:42 From the river to the sea means all the Jews are dead, we get the land. Right. And the two-state solution really was set up by Winston Churchill way back after World War I. It's the country of Jordan. But Jordan does not want the Palestinians because many of them are jihadists. Egypt doesn't want them either. They're jihadists. So if their own people don't want them, I have a question, why would Israel want them?

Starting point is 00:10:07 Right. Also, this is, not many people really think about this very often, but people will always say, well, we can't trust, we can't bless Israel because they're apostate. You hear this all the time, right? Well, bless doesn't mean you agree with people on everything. Bless means you tell them where they're wrong. As the proverb says, watch the kisses of an enemy. but the wounds of a friend are good.

Starting point is 00:10:33 We don't rubber stamp everything Israel does. And newsflash, the entire Old Testament Israel was apostate. Every king was a bad king. There was only a couple on the southern kingdom that were good. They're all apostate. God will deal with them. We're supposed to look out for the Jews and Israel, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with them on everything.

Starting point is 00:10:57 And of course, we want all people to be saved through Christ. Of course. And so we shared the gospel. Yes. With everyone. Okay, this is the dividing issue, though, on the right and even among some Christians. So going forward, what does it look like? Do we find consensus on the issue?

Starting point is 00:11:12 Are we trying to change people's minds? Do we kind of push it to the side as non-fundamental? What do you think it looks? You mean Israel? Yes. I think we just speak the truth and live the results to God. We're not going to bow down and say that Israel isn't a friend of the U.S. It generally is a friend of the U.S.

Starting point is 00:11:29 And think about this. Israel has a landmass that is about 700, let me put it another way. The Muslim countries around Israel, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt have a land mass 700 times the size of Israel. And Israel is supposed to give up land? Right. Hello? Why? I don't understand. It has nothing to do with fairness. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:56 So Hamas wants all Jews dead. and how can you side with them? You can't. Doesn't mean everything Israel does is correct. We have to give them wounds of a friend when they do wrong, but to say, you know, who are the good guys and bad guys in this? I mean, can you imagine, Ali, if a cartel in Mexico, and Charlie and I were talking about this the day before he was murdered, if a cartel in Mexico had in their charter somewhere that they wanted to kill all Americans, they came across the border, they proportionally killed 30,000 Americans, they took a another 30,000 and drag them across the border, would any American have any mystery about who the good guys and bad guys were? What would we do? We would take out that cartel, we would rescue the

Starting point is 00:12:40 hostages, and then we'd have a parade how good we were to kill the evil bad guys. And yet, somehow when it comes to Israel, we lose our minds. I think it's demonic. Yeah, wow. It's so interesting and very disturbing the division that it's caused, and very surprising to me, but you've given a lot clarity to it. Can you just leave us with a message of hope? What's the most hopeful thing you can think of before Christmas? That we're saved by grace, not by works, that Jesus came into the world to take our punishment upon himself, and by trusting in him, we're not only forgiven, we're given his righteousness, and Christianity is the answer to the problem of evil. If we had never sin, there'd be no reason for Jesus to come to earth, but because of our sin, he came to earth,

Starting point is 00:13:25 and by trusting in him, we are forgiven. That's the real message of Christmas. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much, Frank. I appreciate it. Thank you. Watch Relatable with the great Allie, Beth Stucky, ladies and gentlemen.

Starting point is 00:13:38 Thank you. Okay, I tried out a new slow cooker over the weekend, and I loved it. It's amazing, but this is not about the slow cooker. This is about the meat that I put in the slow cooker, which is also amazing. I used my good rancher's chicken strips to make barbecue chicken, rice bowls. really good. I love relying on Good Ranchers because I know at least one part of my meal is accounted for. It's always going to be healthy. It's always going to support American farms and ranches, and it's always going to be high protein. I get all of my meat from Good Ranchers. That's better

Starting point is 00:14:13 than organic chicken, strips, breasts, even seed oil-free chicken nuggets, which my kids love. I love their beef, their different cuts of steak. They've got all kinds of seafood, and it's all from an American farmer ranch. It's also a Christian American family-owned company. This is so much better than going to the grocery store and trying to figure out if the meat that you're getting is good and you don't even know where it's from. So go to good ranchers.com slash alley. You'll get $25 off your first order. That's good ranchers.com slash alley. Lucas, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Hey, thanks for having me on here. It's great to be with you.

Starting point is 00:14:52 Okay, I'm going to put you on the spot. Let's do it. You just told me off camera that you and your wife are about to celebrate 25 years of marriage. Does he look like he could be married for 25 years? I know. I didn't think so either. Okay, what is your, what's your top advice that you give couples? Geez, you know what? I think that you really have to have a foundation in just what I would say, the gospel.

Starting point is 00:15:17 If you don't understand that you by yourself are completely depraved and you have no righteousness of your own, when you get that and you talk about that, it allows you have conversations to say, this is how I'm feeling. It might not be the truth, but it's how I'm feeling. Can you help me sort through this rather than just making an accusation? and these sort of things. So we've really focused on communication, obviously putting the Lord first. We've had some great mentors along the way, too, that made a big difference in our lives. Yeah, I think mentorship is a big one. Yeah. And it's something that I think is lost among a lot of

Starting point is 00:15:47 young Christians today. Young Christians are too scared to ask. Older Christians are maybe too scared to ask and say, hey, I want to give you advice. So there does seem to be a gap going on in the church. I think that, you know, with mentors, I always tell people that there's something that you have to seek out. you, if you want mentor, you don't wait for the mentor to come to you and say, hey, I'd like to mentor you. You have to be willing to. And most people, you know, like in our space, if somebody comes to us and they're genuine and they're normal, you know, and that's, and they say, hey, I'm working on this. I'd love to buy you a cup of coffee and maybe pick your brain for a little bit. Like, you're honored by that. Like, if you can make time for that, like, you would totally say yes to it.

Starting point is 00:16:24 And I think that when you're in proximity to people, you're not trying to force it. You're not just interrupting people at dinner to see if they're going to mentor you. But, you know, you're willing to build real relationship with them and take the time. Like, it's an honor to do that. And so I always encourage young people to look for that. I always try to have people I'm mentoring as well as people that are speaking into my life. And the cool thing about my job right now is I get to hang out with some of the biggest pastors around the nation that have, you know, just these wisdom-filled guys with all sorts of, you know,

Starting point is 00:16:48 experience and ministry that can, you know, as much as we're working with them in TPSA faith, they're also pouring into me. And it's a nice perk. Yeah. What's the hardest part of being a pastor? The hardest part of being a pastor, I think that the, you know, Sunday comes every week. You know, it's always, it's always, you know, another, you know, seven days away. And so I think that, keeping your heart at a place to where you feel that you are in tune with the Lord, that you can

Starting point is 00:17:17 give regular good, you know, just content and, you know, sermons to your congregation. And then at times you're just getting pulled in a million directions. And so it's that much more important that you're keeping yourself, like you're making time for your own spirituality because it's easy for like you're reading of the word to be to write a sermon rather than just like, Lord, I need, you and I need some time together right now. And I think that that's one of the bigger challenges when you do this stuff for a living. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 00:17:45 Let's talk about the challenge that pastors seem to have sometimes in speaking into a cultural moment. They might be scared of dividing their congregation or they're like, am I just being controversial for the sake of being controversial, and they might have a hard time figuring out what is political that I don't need to talk about and what is actually biblical? How should a pastor be navigating that? Yeah, I think that in my work as a senior director at TPSA Faith, and I had the honor of working under Charlie Kirk for the past 18 months, and it was an incredible experience. Every day with Charlie felt historic and even more so now. we talked a lot about the three types of pastors. There's true pastors and there's traitorous pastors,

Starting point is 00:18:30 and then there's this middle category of trembling pastors. I think a lot of pastors are in that space where they're ideologically maybe aligned with biblical truth. They want to do the right thing. But there's all the other reasons. I'm afraid of losing my congregation. I'm afraid of financial laws. I don't know if I feel as versed on these topics to be able to talk.

Starting point is 00:18:51 And let's face it, like Marxism, CRT, DEI, like Islam, like these are robust topics that take a lot of time. Like, you and I've done a lot of work to like read these things and know these things. And the average pastor hasn't done that. They're not learning that stuff at Bible colleges, many of which are woke. And so they're set up for, they're set up for failure really from the beginning. And I think that, you know, I remember one of the things that Charlie said to me is that courage is easy. All you have to do is say yes. You know, you don't have to have a degree on the wall. You don't have to have a bunch of money. You don't have to have good looks. You just have to be willing to say like, here I am,

Starting point is 00:19:19 Lord, send me. And I think we need more pastors to do that. They're kind of like Gideon heightened in the wine press, hoping the battle's going to go on without them, and they don't need to get in the fight. And I think what we're trying to do at TPSA Faith is be that voice coming alongside of them and saying, rise up, you mighty value and warrior. It's time to get in the fight here. We have been using every life diapers and wipes for a couple of years now since my youngest was a newborn. And I would not be here talking about every life if their diapers didn't really work.

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Starting point is 00:20:52 You know, one subject that you've talked about a lot that I find is really hard for pastors who've got it on abortion. They've got it on marriage and gender. They're strong on those issues. It's the racial, social justice stuff. Like, totally fumbled the ball during 2020, which I know it was difficult. I want to have grace for that.

Starting point is 00:21:10 But sounded so much like BLM or the world when it came to race and justice, even though they have it right on everything else. Why is that? You know, I have said a lot of times that I don't have shame for a pastor that at the start after George Floyd in the middle of COVID, everything else is going on, if they put a black square on Instagram for, you know, six months. And assuming that after some point in time, they realized like, oh, wait a minute, I got bamboozled. Like, this is actually supporting a Marxist anti-family anti-God organization.

Starting point is 00:21:43 And they went back and repent. But I'm not seeing one of these guys go back and repent of that. Not publicly. Not publicly, right? And so, you know, that's concerning to me. And again, I think there's an education issue. A lot of people, they don't know the history of liberation theology. They don't know that it's a hybrid between Marxism.

Starting point is 00:21:57 and in Christianity, they don't know about James Cohn, they don't know about this idea of kind of crucifying the white Jesus type of language that you see. And so when you don't have a history and you want to be likable, I mean, being a pastor oftentimes, there's the temptation to feel like a politician. Your job is to gather people is what you think your job is. It's not really your job. Your job is actually to proclaim the full counsel of the Word of God, but you think your job is to gather people because that's what feels like success.

Starting point is 00:22:24 And so what happens is you want to please people, and especially if you're in a community with a lot of diversity, you're afraid of saying certain things, especially if you're a white guy that looks like me. I can't say certain things from the stage or talk about certain issues. But when you actually learn about these things, you realize this is not, we're not talking about racism. We're talking actually about Marxism and that there's been a mass deception that has happened and it's worked its way into a lot of congregations, white, black, and all in between. And when you start actually being able to kind of dissect this and pull it apart, I think that the enemy gets exposed. and you're able to deal with that. But it's that when you don't know it and you're not able to kind of walk,

Starting point is 00:22:59 you know, or navigate kind of that language, it's easy just to be like, can I say black, you know, can I say these? And you just kind of stumble through this and it gets really weird real fast. Yeah, it really does. Charlie loved talking about woke pastors. Every time he would interview me on his show,

Starting point is 00:23:17 he would be like, why won't these pastors say anything? And I'm sure you all had so many conversations. I talked him down from putting billboards over churches a couple times. He's like, we should get a billboard and put it in. I'm like, maybe not on that highway right there. Yeah, but I like the passion behind it. He was, he, and he had a hard time because he was willing to go out there. Obviously, we've seen that the full expression that Charlie was willing to put himself in harm's way. The start of this year, we did like a four-hour dinner to kick the year off, and it was just me, him and Mikey, and we sat at a restaurant outside in Phoenix,

Starting point is 00:23:47 and it was one of my most memorable moments with him. It was one of those days where he just, he had all the time in the world to work through every issue. And, you know, one of the things he said to me is he said, Lucas, he goes this year, he's like, I want our theme word for faith to be grit. And he's like, if we're not close enough to people when we're sharing the gospel with them, where we're going out there for people to punch us, we're probably not close enough. And, you know, and obviously, you know, he lived out and then some. And we really took that to heart. We've been doing a lot more content, you know, out there on the street, man on the street. We've been walking up and down the strip in Vegas, talking to people about faith. We're going out to, you know, places where people are

Starting point is 00:24:22 and asking the tough questions and really to have them to have those dialogues and the ask me anything, prove me wrong, style events. And we're going to be doing a lot more of those in this new year. Look, the worst they can do is they can kill us. And that's not so bad after all when you're in Christ. And so we're going to keep this going. And we don't want Charlie's, you know, life or his death to be in vain. Yeah, he talked a lot about making heaven crowded. And I think you just really saw an acceleration of that desire in the last few months of his life. You worked with him closely, so you know. But even just me watching him, he talked more and more about theology and the gospel and evangelism. It was just so evident that it was a passion, the passion of his heart. Well, first off, Charlie was a huge fan of yours.

Starting point is 00:25:01 He liked having you at virtually every event that we did. And he was always just a, he loved, I think the passion, the grit, the tenacity that you have, willing to kind of go after it in these things. And, you know, he was a champion. He just thought you were champion and he was a champion of yours. You know, Charlie, I think that over the last, I met him in 2020. There was certainly an evolution where faith became more and more important in his life. And, you know, certainly over the last few years, it was evident.

Starting point is 00:25:27 It was the foundational layer to everything that he did. And this idea of making heaven crowded, recognizing that, you know, it's what it's all about. My last communication with him was about two days before he died. and he was coming back from Japan, and I had been giving him some intel on some of the churches and theology that was happening in Japan and for a talk that he was doing over there. And he shot me a message back, and he said, Lucas will never believe it. I was able to share the gospel with this tremendous group and massive group of Japanese leaders, I think is the way he worded it. And the last thing I said to him was I was so proud of him. And, you know, it was obviously I wish I could talk to him right now. I wish he was still here with us, but we ended on such a great note. And the last thing that we talked about was really made. making heaven crowded by sharing the gospel with people overseas. And so we want to keep that going here in the U.S.

Starting point is 00:26:15 We're launching a new tour. Erica's already announced it called Make Heaven Crowded. We're going about 30 cities across the country, hopefully to a city near all of you that are out here. We're kicking off the first one at Greg Lurie's Church in California on January 21st. And we've got high probability that Erica's going to be there with us, myself, big worship band, Pastor Greg Lorry, a lot of other speakers going to be showing up to these.

Starting point is 00:26:37 They're one night only and then we go on, but we're doing one at Greg Lurys. Then we're jumping down to Awaken Church there in San Diego as well. So, and more to come as these announcements follow. Amazing. Well, that answers my last question, which was just, what is the vision for Turning Point Faith? Why did Charlie start it? But that's it to make heaven crowded.

Starting point is 00:26:57 Yeah, and I'll say this, that, you know, look, the opportunity to work with Charlie the last 18 months. And Charlie always gave me a pretty long leash in my role. I mean, I had a lot of autonomy. And he would just tell me, like, hey, go for it and go big. And we're continuing to do this. We have more resolved than ever. Our team at TPSA Faith is so united. We got some of the best staff in the world.

Starting point is 00:27:15 And we are looking to unite the church around primary doctrine and eradicate wokeism from the American church. Amen. Well, I am right there with you, linking arms with y'all, have y'all's back and praying for y'all. Appreciate that. Thank you, Lucas. Really, thank you. You guys know I love Adele Natural Cosmetics. I've been using them for years.

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Starting point is 00:28:15 You'll get 25% off your first time purchase. That's Adel Natural Cosmetics.com code Alley. Blake, thanks so much for seeing the time to join us. Oh, thank you for having me. Thank you so much. Okay. For those who don't know, can you tell us who you are and what you do? I am a producer on the Charlie Kirk Show. I was very much in the background of Charlie's show. You know, producer Blake, get me some info.

Starting point is 00:28:43 If you listened to hear that, before that, I worked on Tucker, Carlson Show at Fox. So I've hovered in the background of a lot of historic individuals on the American right, I would say. But now you've been thrust into the spotlight. Something like that. What does that been like? Certainly very unwillingly, I would say. Right, right. What has that been like? It's been very different. I've been at a lot of turning point events. And I think I'd been recognized once. It was at a Detroit event a year ago. Someone wanted a photo of me for some reason. Now it happens more frequently. It does take some getting used to. You really, you do see how it gets exhausting for a lot of people, but Charlie was a good example on that front. Never let him get it down. Never let it get him down.

Starting point is 00:29:24 Always very happy to take a photo to smile for people. And we have to imitate that. Okay. So you're obviously a very fact-driven person that's kind of, I mean, I would hope so. But I mean, that's basically been your role. And so I imagine just with a lot of the controversy that's surrounded Charlie and his death, and a lot of the conspiracy theories, obviously, you plan to debunk a lot of the things that Candace was saying. What has that been like for you, even just personally, to feel like people are running with fiction?

Starting point is 00:29:55 It's frustrating. It's challenging. It leads to real pain. I think that's why I certainly wanted us to respond to that. It was so painful to see people I knew, personally, who I knew had done nothing wrong, both done nothing wrong and never sought the spotlight in any way, that they were good employees, good helpers, good friends to Charlie, and entirely because of that, for them to be singled out for incredibly nasty attacks. And there was a comparison that we made when we were making that initial response that so much of what was said and done,

Starting point is 00:30:34 it was so similar to what the worst people in Antifa do, where they take this real, delight in tormenting people. And I just have to say, for a lot of them, there clearly was not an interest in seeking the truth, as they would say. There clearly was, for some people, an element that they enjoyed hurting people, and they liked to find an excuse to do that. Yeah. And that's something that's so common on the left.

Starting point is 00:31:00 There's a line, I can't remember who said it, but there are a few things more intoxicating than to be told that you can do cruelty to someone, and it's morally righteous. to do so. And the left loves to do that, that they'll find their cause that is their justification to victimize and bully and persecute and hurt people. And it's unfortunate to see that come out of this tragedy. And so many good things have come out as well, the revival that we've all seen, the people who's seen all the people come out whose lives were transformed by Charlie, that's the good thing. And that greatly outweighs the bad, but the bad is still there. Yeah, the timing of kind of your announcement that, hey, we're going to start fact-checking some of these theories.

Starting point is 00:31:44 Some people obviously would have preferred y'all not say anything. And then you've got other people that are like, what took y'all so long? So what was the thinking behind when you made the announcement, okay, we're going to go point by point? I don't want to speak too much to that because it was a private discussion we had inside. And I don't want to say exactly what motivated everything. I just want to acknowledge there were arguments both ways, and that's one reason it happened the way it did, that there was certainly an impulse initially to say, and I said this in the statement, that so much of this is so strange that it really should just be ignored, and some thought,

Starting point is 00:32:25 if you give it no oxygen, it will eventually go away. But at that point, it had been more than two months, and it was not going away. It was only growing in intensity and it was taking on. And I think it was an important factor, I think, for why we did choose to do something that I'll acknowledge is it felt, I think it was damaging a lot of people who were close to Charlie who were being victimized in this way. And it was dispiriting for people to think that they were being left out there and that they were feeling abandoned. And I really thought we had to send the message, these people are not being abandoned. We are not throwing them to the wolves. these people are innocent and we should say that.

Starting point is 00:33:04 Right. And I think it was important for people to hear that, especially people who are just observing from the outside. Yeah. Obviously, you know, there was a meeting of the minds between Erica and Candice and we don't have to talk about, you know, what went into that conversation because we don't really know,

Starting point is 00:33:20 but I certainly was praying for peace. I think we all were because we want to focus on the right things. Moving forward is the hope just to kind of ignore and fight the fight that, you know, like Charlie charted out? Or what is the thinking? What we do, that will ultimately be Erica's call, and that dictated a lot of this, that she has the absolute authority over turning point

Starting point is 00:33:42 and to decide, and as Charlie's widow, to decide how to respond to anything about it. And so that's in her hands. I think you're correct. What we want is we want the focus to be on Charlie's life's work. And Charlie's life's work was not responding to weird theories about him. Charlie's life's work was spiritual revival, American revival, young people revival, successful families, having children. All of those things that he talked about, that's what he wants to focus on.

Starting point is 00:34:12 And that's the mission we who remain have to be committed to. Yeah. What is it like? The moment that you walked into Amfest for the first time, you see these giant pictures of Charlie's face. I imagine it was emotional, but what was going through your mind? It is. It is. Not even Charlie's face, what really stood out to me was that in the hotel we're staying at across the way, they even decorated the wall there. And it's that photo that everyone's seen of Charlie holding his fist up like that.

Starting point is 00:34:42 And it does hit you. What always hits me again is just seeing that and it does come to mind. I'm not going to see him in this life again. Yeah. And I have so many of those memories of him in the arena, him in private, him preparing for the show, him traveling. And I'll have those memories, but they will fade. But what will always be there is Charlie as he was, that warrior for the faith, that warrior for America. There's a line I always think of.

Starting point is 00:35:18 It's from a World War I poem where it says, they shall not grow old. And that's Charlie. He shall not grow old. We're going to wither. We're going to age. We're going to fade away. Charlie does not fade away. He is always as bright as he was that day at Utah Valley. Our sponsor for today is Shopify. We use Shopify to set up our merchandise site so you guys can buy our hats and our shirts and all of that good stuff really easily. I don't want to waste time writing product descriptions and setting that all up, making sure it's right and work technologically, that's just not my thing. And if you're a business owner, you're trying to sell merchandise or art or whatever, you don't want to spend your time doing that. So just rely on Shopify.

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Starting point is 00:36:43 This event just feels significant for the right. And I guess for the country, it just feels like we are entering into a new era, whatever that is, a new political era. Obviously, there's been a lot of disagreements on, stage in America Fest, which I think is good. It's certainly entertaining, but it just shows that we're not afraid of disagreement and debate. But do you feel that way that for some reason it just feels like this is the initiation of a new season for conservatism? And what do you think that looks like for us to come together and build a coalition? I think you're right. I said the other day,

Starting point is 00:37:24 Charlie chose the date of this very well, which is almost happenstance. It's obviously around this time because we have so many students. You can't have it in the middle of the school year. You have the summer and you have the Christmas break, and those are the two big opportunities to have something. But it works out well, because it's the end of the year, so it's either right after the election. You need to whip people up and remind them, yeah, guys, the battle continues, or it's the start of an election year. And this is when you, first of all, that's when you want to have those debates.

Starting point is 00:37:53 You don't want the debate to be happening in October with the election two weeks out. It's much better to have it the month after that election, when this is when you can hash out the big stuff. For the movement at large, you're correct. I think we're all aware. We've had two Donald Trump elections, so we're moving into a post, there will be a post-Trump

Starting point is 00:38:12 era of conservatism. And there's going, and also that a lot of the debates that really defined that era, like how do we feel about immigration, for example, those have actually reached towards a resolution. There's a lot of more agreement on that than there was 10 years ago. So there are new issues

Starting point is 00:38:28 people disagree on. And those are going to be hashed out and they're not as, it's not as decided which way they're going to go. You know, a thing that happened, we had our subscribers, our members room where we've been interviewing people and we asked them, who do you agree with among the speakers? And for example, we compared Ben and we compared Tucker. And a lot of hands went up for both. I'll just say that. It was a pretty equal number.

Starting point is 00:38:55 That is a debate that will be hashed out. And we have to put an emphasis as Charlie would. if it's evenly matched, neither side is going to destroy the other, neither side is going to purge the other, there must be an approach towards synthesis. And that will be challenging. Charlie recognized it was very challenging.

Starting point is 00:39:11 But it's work that must be done. Sorry, we have a crazy, crazy fan. We're going to have to call security. We need the DHS people to deport that man. You know what? I've been thinking the same thing. Jack Basobic, causing trouble. Causing trouble. I don't remember that name signing the Declaration of Independence.

Starting point is 00:39:33 Good point. Okay. Anyway, are you surprised, are you surprised that that is the issue that's divided us? A little, and there's both good and bad aspects to it. It's a little surprising and weird because, let's be frank, a big issue among it, it's how you feel about a different country that is not America and what you want our policy to be. It is kind of strange. It's a little weird.

Starting point is 00:40:01 Now, what I think is the positive of, about that is, that does also mean it's not super duper foundational the way... Well, that's what I think, too, but it seems like a lot of people disagree with that. I would agree that it's not foundational, and that's almost, I think, the disagreement. And that's not to downplay that it's very important to many people. It is a very important issue to people, and I understand that and accept it, but it is not, I mean, it's not on the level of how you feel about the First Amendment of the Constitution, how you feel about what, what what it means to be an American.

Starting point is 00:40:34 And that gives me optimism that, certainly, for example, that you can reach a synthesis. If you're debating something like the First Amendment or the Constitution, I don't think you really can have just, oh, here's a handy synthesis where we'll agree, you know, we'll find a compromise on this. You're naturally much more uncompromising about that. Whereas I do think on this issue we'll be able to battle towards something that there will be extremists who are not satisfied with anything but total victory, but I think there will be a much

Starting point is 00:41:05 larger number of people who can be satisfied with a center position that is emerged, that emerges after some debate. That's what I'm hopeful for. I'm hopeful for that too. Okay, speaking of hope, I want you to give us some hope. You're a history buff, correct? I've been called that. A lot of times, it feels like, okay, this is the worst that it's ever been. It's the most divided that we've ever been as a country or as a party, and we could never get out of this. Is there Anything that we can look at, any era that we can look at history that can say, okay, we got out of that. There's a great one. The funny thing is, I think it was a book called Fears of a Setting Sun, but I might be getting that wrong.

Starting point is 00:41:42 An amazing thing is, if you read what the founders were writing late in their lives, early 1800s, a lot of them believed we screwed it up. America is a failure. Everything stinks. The revolution was for nothing. You have Jefferson writing this. You have Madison writing this. the founders were blackpilled.

Starting point is 00:42:00 They were blackpilled during what we now know was the beginning of a very glorious century for America. And they had reasons to think this. They could look at, for example, the slavery divide and think there's no way this is ever going to be resolved. And in fact, it was resolved very traumatically. And it just built, and it caused so much bad blood, so much conflict. We have political violence in America.

Starting point is 00:42:22 In the 1850s, you had Americans butchering each other in Kansas even before the Civil War. And yet, America went on to have an incredibly triumphant late 19th century, an incredibly triumphant 20th century. It can look very bad in the short term, incredibly bad. And yet, we can misread things, we can miss things, we can overcome things. And I think that's a big lesson you can take away from American history. Okay, last thing. What is the individual's responsibility if we want to enter into a new golden era of truth and triumph?

Starting point is 00:42:58 The individual's responsibility live like Charlie. I think they've got that sign here. We are all Charlie Kirk. That is aspirational. You must make yourself into a Charlie Kirk or Charlotte Kirk. An Erica Kirk. He's like, a Charlie or an Erica. He's like, courage is a choice.

Starting point is 00:43:11 It's a choice. It's a choice. It's a choice. Charlie really believed in that. That this was something you could cultivate every day. And his discipline was tremendous. His personal agency was tremendous. He was a person who you really admired more and more.

Starting point is 00:43:28 the more you interacted with him, the more you saw how he functioned. And he really is an example of the sort of hero anyone can be. Like, if you read about Albert Einstein, okay, I could never be Albert Einstein. I'm just not as smart as him. I could never be Michael Jordan. I am not as tall or as good at basketball as him. Even if I practiced 10,000 hours, I would not be remotely as good. But Charlie, so much of what made him good was the sort of thing anyone can do.

Starting point is 00:43:56 You can cultivate discipline. You can cultivate virtue. You can cultivate agency. You can't cultivate being six foot five. But most of what made Charlie amazing was the ability that is perfectly accessible to an ordinary person. And if you look at the way he lived his life, and he literally just wrote a book about a big thing about how he lived his life, if you read that and follow it, I think you will be able to bring about that America that he wanted us to have. Amen. Well, thank you so much, Blake.

Starting point is 00:44:28 Thank you very much, Halley.

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