Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1310 | Shannon Bream’s Hidden Suffering—And What God Is Teaching Her Through It

Episode Date: February 27, 2026

Today, Allie sits down with Shannon Bream, host of "Fox News Sunday" and Fox News Supreme Court correspondent, to discuss her new book, “Nothing Is Impossible with God," which explores biblical stories of overcoming challenges with faith. Bream shares her personal struggle with chronic eye pain and her journey to finding a specialist while clinging onto the Lord in the midst of suffering. She also shares the importance of maintaining objectivity in journalism and the significance of empathy in her work. Bream emphasizes key Supreme Court cases that will be making headlines soon, including redistricting, free speech issues, and transgender sports participation. Tune in for this engaging discussion! Share the Arrows 2026 is on October 10 in Dallas, Texas! Tickets are on sale now at: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://sharethearrows.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Buy Allie's book "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.toxicempathy.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Timecodes: (00:00) Intro (04:30) Inspiration from Biblical Stories (14:45) God Uses Misfits (21:20) Chronic Eye Pain (27:00) Finding a Diagnosis and Therapy (38:25) Pain Comes with Purpose (47:40) The State of Journalism (51:40) Reporting on SCOTUS — Today's Sponsors: Good Ranchers | If you go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠GoodRanchers.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ and subscribe to any of their boxes of 100% American meat, you’ll save up to $500 a year! Plus, if you use code ALLIE, you’ll get an additional $25 off your first order. Alliance Defending Freedom | Go to ⁠JoinADF.com/Allie⁠ or text ALLIE to 83848 to encourage Gabby today. PreBorn | 100% of your donation will go toward saving babies. Will you help us? Just dial #250 and say the keyword BABY. Or donate securely at ⁠⁠⁠⁠PreBorn.com/ALLIE⁠⁠⁠⁠. Geviti | Go to ⁠⁠⁠GoGeviti.com/Allie⁠⁠⁠ and use code ALLIE for 20% off. Taking care of yourself isn't selfish. It's stewardship. Patriot Mobile | Go to ⁠⁠PatriotMobile.com/ALLIE⁠⁠ or call 972-PATRIOT and use promo code ALLIE for a free month of service! — Related Episodes: Ep 314 | The Monumental Importance of the Supreme Court | Guest: Sen. Ted Cruz ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-314-the-monumental-importance-of-the-supreme/id1359249098?i=1000494960221⁠ Ep 306 | Amy Coney Barrett & Trump's Battle for the Presidency ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-306-amy-coney-barrett-trumps-battle-for-the-presidency/id1359249098?i=1000492842228⁠ Ep 587 | Biden’s SCOTUS Pick: Soft on Child Abuse & Clueless on Biology | Guest: Steve Deace ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-587-bidens-scotus-pick-soft-on-child-abuse-clueless/id1359249098?i=1000555020884⁠ — Buy Allie's book "You're Not Enough (and That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.alliebethstuckey.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Relatable merchandise: Use promo code ALLIE10 for a discount: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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That's fellowship homelones.com slash alley, term supply, see site for details, fellowship home loans, mortgage lending by the book, nationwide mortgage bankers, DBA Fellowship Home Loans, equal housing lender, NMLS, number 819382. Okay, y'all, you are going to love this one. Shannon Bream is a longtime Fox News journalist, and she is here today sharing her incredible testimony of struggling with longtime chronic pain in what God showed her during that really difficult season. She wrote a new book, and it is called Nothing is Impossible with God. And we talk about her own story of going through this trial, but also these profiles encourage in scripture that really aren't about these people's

readiness or their strength, but about the power of God. We also talk about what's coming down the pipeline with the Supreme Court, some of the decisions that we need to look out for. That is her area of expertise. This is a wide-ranging and super encouraging conversation that you guys are going to love. If you love this podcast, please leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts on Spotify, wherever you listen. Make sure you are subscribed on YouTube as well. Like this video, share it with your friends that you think are going to love it. And if you haven't gotten your for Share the Arrows, our Christian Women's Conference, our no fluff gospel-centered worship-filled Christian women's conference,

October 11th in Dallas, Texas. Make sure you get your tickets today. That's ShareThearrows.com. All right, y'all, without further ado, here is our friend Shannon Brim. Shannon, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. I'm sure everyone knows who you are, but in case they don't, can you tell us who you are and what you do?

Yeah, my name is Shannon Bream. I currently work as the host of Fox News Sunday and cover the Supreme Court and Legal Beat for Fox News. and I like to write books. And I have a wonderful husband and a lab named Biscuit who kind of runs our life. We're based in D.C. Yes. And spent a lot of time in Nashville too.

Okay, you've written lots of books. Tell me about your newest one. It's called Nothing's Impossible with God. And this is a book I've had floating around in my brain. You know when you finish a book. There are always some things you think, oh, I could have included that, but maybe that's a different project. And that's really how I felt about this book.

It's based off, my jumping off point was Gideon, because I love his story. about how he's so hesitant when God comes to him, to call him into this big task. And he's sort of like, I'm the least in my family. My family's the least in the clan. Our clan is the least of all of Israel. And God addresses him as a mighty warrior right from the beginning. And to follow his story, you see how he grows in faith and how God kind of strips him down of everything that would have allowed him to get credit for what he's going to do going into this battle. And he trusts the Lord. He grows in that, but he has to overcome so many things. And over the years, I've collected these

stories just feeling like there's this threat of overcoming in everyone in this book. And I wanted to put them in one project. So that's what this is. Yeah. And all of the stories that you include in this book, whether it's Jonah or Moses or David or Daniel, they all kind of have that same pattern, that same story. And we see God work in like stacking the odds against himself and then knocking them all down just to kind of show people, hey, it's not about you. This is actually about my strength. Yeah. And what's a reassuring thing for all of us and for in 2026 to think it's not really about me. I think that as you and I've talked about when you can divorce yourself from that, like I'm not responsible for the world. I'm not running the world. It's hard if you're a little bit of a micro-manager

control freak like I am. But in each of these cases, many of these men fought with God. You know, trying to reason with them. And it's so easy to look back at them like, how dare they? But then I'm like, I do that too. I want to reason with God or get my way or argue with him about why something is a good idea or not. And we see that through all these stories where God really does put them into situations on paper as humans they could never get over that hump, get over that challenge, that battle or whatever it is. And he just shows up.

And when that happens in our lives too, he gets the glory because we can't say, I did that. Yeah. You know, how you describe these stories in your book is not necessarily the Sunday school version of the stories that we were taught growing up. And that's fine. There are certain elements of a story that you tell your children. so that they understand. But when you get down to the nitty gritty of like the story of Jonah and you really try to understand his fear and what God did in allowing him to be swallowed by the whale,

you can really extract a lot more meaning out of those narratives. So tell me about that. Like why did you decide to really get down into the mud of these stories? Well, like you, I grew up in a Christian home. So I knew these stories and being in K through 12 Christian school and then Liberty university. I mean, you're hearing these stories and it's a blessing to me to feel like I have scripture tucked down in my heart and it comes back when I really need it. But every time I study these stories and as an adult you have a different perspective too, I feel like, gosh, there's another layer or I'm learning something else, which I think is so beautiful about scripture that you never completely comprehend everything. It's always going to be a learning process.

And with my last book, when I dug into David and Bathsheba's story, it was one of those things where I was like, this is not the version that I learned as a little kid. And again, as you said, there's only so much you're going to tell a kid about David and Bathsheba. But I remember thinking, like, she was the bad guy in that story. And then really studying scripture and saying, like, David was the bad guy in this story. We don't know how she responded to his overtures and what happened between them. But we know he did some terrible things. He was still a man after God's heart and God redeemed him in every way possible. He had enormous control. He had enormous control. nutrition over what he did. That's obviously part of that puzzle. But every time I study these stories,

I'm like, there's really more to it. And the Jonah story is a perfect example because I always just thought, as a kid, he's afraid to go to Nineveh. I write in the book about the Assyrians were terrible. They were brutal. And I can understand why you wouldn't want to go there. The things they did to their enemies and the people they oppressed were awful. But it wasn't just that. It was this discovery that Jonah was worried they would get the same grace that he got. And he thought that he was worthy of. So when God says, go to this place, he gets on a boat and goes the opposite way as far as he could in those days because there's some part of him that didn't feel like these people deserved the chance to repent and get God's grace. And you even see that when it happens that he's upset about that.

So there's more to Jonah. Yeah. You know, when you hear kind of critics of the Bible talk about, say stories like Jonah's story. One, of course, they're incredulous. How is this possible that a big fish would swallow a person? But it's also a way that I hear people highlight God's cruelty. Like, how would God throw a person that he claims to love into the sea and into the belly of a whale just to teach him a lesson? But what you're saying is that, no, this is actually an incredible story of God's grace and his intense desire to give mercy to a people who didn't actually deserve mercy, which is interesting, I've actually never thought about that story exactly like that. And there's mercy to Jonah. And I think about we've all kind of been thrown into the belly of a whale

at some point. I share that in the book and talk about God puts us in these time out sometimes when we're running from him to say, I'm going to give you a chance to think about this. And Jonah, as we see this song, this prayer that comes out from him when he's in the belly of the whale, he realizes that he's wrong. And he needs to make this right. So God has mercy on him, not destroying him, but giving him a chance to think this over, redeeming, going to the Ninevites, and we see that there was a complete response to God and to the message from Jonah that these people are like, okay, yes, I give my, you know, credence to God. Everybody had to fast, even the animals. They weren't even allowed to eat. I mean, everybody was in this repentance mode towards God. So we never

know what God's going to do when he asks us to go out of our comfort zone, maybe to speak to someone we don't think deserves God's mercy, which is such an arrogant thing for us. It's like, gosh, I'm a sinner who needs it every day? Who am I to judge that somebody else does not deserve the unconditional love and mercy of God and redemption for those who will come to him? And none of us deserve it. And that's why it's called mercy, because it's God out of his kindness giving us something that we don't actually deserve. First sponsor for the day is Jevity. I absolutely love Jevity. The insights it's given me into my health and all. All of the biomarkers that I was able to see from getting blood work that took like five minutes

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analogy a little bit more. You said all of us have kind of been in the belly of a whale and you've seen that season in your own life. What does that look like? Yeah, I think that sometimes things come into our life and it feels like a punishment. But I think there's a difference with discipline and love and that God will, like I said, put us in sort of a timeout to say, hey, you need to rethink this. Because I think it's easy for all of us to get off track, to be about building our kingdoms, to going down the path and the plans that we have. And I think sometimes God gives us a wake-up call. I mean, I share in the book about a terrible breakup that I had with this guy, not that I dated anyone before the lovely and talented children dream,

who I've been married to for 30 years now. Wow. But you know, I did have a couple of relationships before that and there was a guy that just was not right for me and it wasn't a relationship where he was going to be a godly leader or any of those things but it was very infatuated with him yeah and it took some really difficult unpleasant things happening in that relationship to kind of give me that time out like listen I gave you all these red flags I don't know why you haven't listened to me I know why you haven't listened to me but I'm going to let you sit in this kind of painful experience here and realize you need to make a better decision here and have a line that you know life that's more aligned with God's plan. Yeah. It is so comforting to us that God continued to use

people that in so many ways ran away from him. Like Jonah was like, I'm going the opposite direction. And instead of God saying, okay, fine, fine, I'll just use someone else. He's like, no, I chose you. We're going to figure this out together. Same thing with Moses as you said, some of these people that we regard as heroes of the faith and they are in so many ways. Like they tried to rationalize themselves out of this situation of leadership. Like, I have a stutter. I don't want to do this. Basically, what are you thinking? Speaking to the God of the universe in that way? And how many times have we done that? Like, are you sure that you know best God and I'm going to rebel against you? And God is so good that he doesn't just leave us to our own devices.

Yeah, he doesn't leave us there because, you know, the idea of discipline drawing us to where we need to be. And he's a loving God. And I think sometimes when you're in a tough place, it doesn't feel that way, and we think that that's not, God isn't loving us and God isn't protecting us. But gosh, I'm struck all the time when I stop and think, and I'm many times in prayer that he's protected me from so many things. I will never know about this side of heaven, whether it's people or circumstances or relationships or jobs that I thought were right for me, or whatever it is. You know, we all think that we have the perfect plan, but when something happens that feels painful to us or unplanned or unpleasant, it's really God's protection in so many

times in so many places. Yes, I think specifically about the story of Joseph, and you talk about Joseph in your book, but a long time ago, I think in high school, I read a book that included an analysis of that passage of the story of Joseph, being the youngest brother, jealous brothers, throw him into the pit, he gets sold into slavery, and this author made this incredible point that the caravan that was going to Egypt was already on its way before, Joseph got thrown into the pit. And how in that story we see this maxim to be true, that man's rejection is so often God's protection. So the thing that feels hard, whatever the belly of the whale is, the thing that feels like rejection and just darkness and despair is God's way of

disciplining you and loving you. And it's really hard to see that in the moment sometimes. But that's, I mean, that's why he gives us all of these stories in his word to remind us of that. Exactly. And that's what I hope these stories will be that we'll all see ourselves in these stories and see that God's goodness was at play. Something else that struck me from Joseph's story that, again, I've read a million times. But studying at this time thinking about that verse in Genesis 50 that everybody knows where his brothers finally come back, he's in a position because of all the terrible things that he suffered to save them. They're the genesis of the Hebrew people of Israel. And he says, what you meant for evil, God meant for good. Now, it's not that the verse doesn't say what you meant for evil, God turned into good,

as if he had to then take what the humans had done and fix it. It sounds like to me from that verse, it was always part of God's plan, like, you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good, meaning he allowed these things and knew these things were going to happen. He's not trying to clean up on Isle 11 with my brother's selling me into slavery. He always knew there would need to be a plan to save us when the famine, came and we didn't have anywhere else to go. And so it's hard for us, yeah, when we're walking through things to think, how can anything good come from this? But I always like to think that God is too good to put us or allow us to walk through pain that doesn't have purpose. There's

some purpose. Yeah, totally. Is there anything else that surprised you about these passages, these stories that you had heard your entire life? But this time, while you were studying them, something maybe jumped out at you that you just hadn't seen before. You know, You know what? This is funny, and this is just my own fault, but the story of Daniel, which again has so much richness in it, and he was really somebody who stood against the culture at the time that was trying to shift him and bend him in so many ways. He and his friends had been taken, and they were in Babylon, which didn't, like the Assyrians try to crush their people with violence and all of these things, they would take them to Babylon and say, look at this beautiful city,

look at this wonderful food and all the pleasures of this world. Come be one of us. I mean, they tried to take their Hebrewness out of them, taking where their food and their language and their literature and everything else, Daniel and his friends, whatever had happened, they were so solidly rooted in the God of Israel and of their faith that they weren't moved. But when I think about Daniel in the lion's den, I always say when I was a kid and you have the little flannel graph in Sunday school, that may be too young even for you, too old for you. You're too young to the flannel graphs, but we'd have these little boards with the stuff on him. Daniel, to me in my mind, when he went into the lion's den was 20, 30 years old. He was a

young guy. A warrior. Right. But his story is he was like probably in his 80s when that happened with him being thrown into the lion's den. And there's been this big gap where Daniel's respected, but there are different kings. There are different leadership now. And something happens. And finally somebody remembers, oh, this guy who could interpret things. Let's bring him back. Daniel's now into his 80s. That's when he ends up getting thrown into the lion's den because there's this jealousy over him. And the people think, we're going to trap him by his faith. We're going to get the king to do this decree that anybody who prays elsewhere or does anything else is going to be in trouble, knowing and hoping that they would entrap Daniel. Daniel's like, nope, still going to do my prayers

and be faithful to God and do my thing. So he was very seasoned in his life and had been faithful in his walk that entire time and was an old man being thrown into that den and still was strong enough to say, my God's got this. Yeah. It just seems that that's who, God chooses on purpose to be able to show that the reason why you were able to accomplish this is because of me. I mean, David was a little boy with a slingshot. Noah was old. Jonah was rebellious. And then, of course, David later had an issue with all kinds of murderous rage and lust and all kinds of things. Moses had a stutter. Joseph was thrown into slavery as a child. I mean, over and over again, we see this just group of miscarriage.

fits that God uses. And it reminds me of that passage. And I think it's First Corinthians one. And I don't have the exact quotation in my mind. But it's this whole passage that I've always loved that's like God uses the fools to shame the wisdom of the wise. He uses what the world considers weak to shame and the strength of the strong. And that's just a through line that we see even in Jesus that he didn't come as like the pagan gods at the time were thought of, you know, intersecting with time and space. He came as an embryo as a baby as a newborn. as the son of a carpenter. And it all just goes to show the glory of God and the power of God that really has so little to do with us. Which again, I think is freeing because it takes the

pressure off of us of having to control or run the universe or control a person or a situation. We know that God's got it. And when you talk about Jesus coming as this little embryo, I'm always blown away by thinking about the God of the universe coming down here to deal with the crazy human race and just the fragilities and the pains of a human life. And, you know, if you've been in the faith for a long time, sometimes I think we can lose sight of that and almost get hardened or deadened to that. Like, man, he came down here knowing exactly what he was going to have to do the whole time in those 33 years, which to him is the blink of an eye, but he knew what the ending would be here on earth. He always had that awareness of what he was walking into.

he's the final chapter in the book because he's the ultimate overcomer. Totally. We've already answered this question in so many ways. I mean, you just mentioned that it's freeing to realize it's not about us. But why else is this such an important realization for people that nothing is impossible with God? Because it may feel like whatever you're walking through. And I say, you know, tough things that you think you have to walk through can be, you know,

these guys were walking through battles and famines and threats on their lives. That may not be what you're facing. you may be facing a financial downturn or a tough diagnosis or a broken relationship or losing a loved one. I mean, that's just the life that we live. All those things are going to come into our life. So you need to know that nothing's impossible. It may not go the way that you want it to go. I've had prayers that we all have are not answered in the way I would have chosen.

But it is freeing to realize that whatever work God is doing, it is for the greater good. And he may not remove the storm or the challenge or the barrier, but he will be with you. in that. That's a promise that is unbroken. Through everything I've walked through in my life, I wouldn't have chosen a lot of it, but he was always faithful to be there. There are also good things that you may feel like are impossible in your life. Maybe you are wanting to start a family. Maybe you want to start a ministry or a Bible study or a new business, whatever it is. Challenges can be something we view as negative. They can be positive things, but we're always going to need his help. And just to know that he's there, regardless of whether the issue or the problem is taken away, he's still in the midst of it. And there is purpose.

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You can see the stone right there. It said, live like Kirk, John 1125. They wouldn't allow her to put that on there. join adf.com slash alley you can support them in their fight for gabby and her first amendment rights go to join adf.com slash alley you've written about your own struggle with chronic pain can you tell us more about that yeah I mean several years ago I woke up one night with excruciating pain in one eye and scary it was bizarre I'm stumbling around the bathroom looking for eye drops I try like a compress a washcloth on it and I thought like your eye not like your eye not like

Yeah, no, it was an eye. It was the surface of my eye. Wow. And I thought, what have I done while I'm sleeping? This is so strange. And kind of thought of it as a one-off. And that went on for a while. A few weeks later, a few months into it, I'm now getting this pain in both eyes. I've gone to my eye doctor to say, what's going on? I was the little kid with the Coke bottle glasses like second, third grade. I've never had great eyes, but never painful until this point. And my doctor said, well, you're getting up there in your years. You're going to start having dry eyes. It's very common with women. And we worked on it for a little while, and he's like, I can't help you. I don't know what's happening here. Let's get you to a specialist. I'm several months into this. It's now happening only at night. It's very mysterious.

It's only at night, but it is a 10 out of 10 when it happens. I'm setting alarms so that I can try to get up every two or three hours to get drops in my eyes. Try to stay ahead of it. Because once it happens. Did it drops helped? No. I mean, it might give a little bit of, it didn't believe the pain, but it relieves some dryness. And I knew if I could stay ahead of it, that seemed to work.

But I got to the point where I couldn't sleep. I would often have double vision and migraines. I'm kind of stumbling through the day. I go to the specialist who's highly recommended. He gives me an initial treatment, gives me some things to try. I only get worse. I'm now to where this is crazy as this sounds. I'm carrying eyedrops with me everywhere at the gym from like machine to machine, even in the shower.

Like water touching my eyes hurt. And there was just this mystery about it. And so I'm well into it. I go back to the specialist and say to him like, I'm really struggling. I can't sleep. That, I think, exacerbates anything you're going through. It makes your mental health. It's more of a struggle.

You're physically in pain. And I just told him, like, I'm kind of barely holding on right now. And I don't, I need some answers. And he said to me, you know, you're very emotional. And I always describe it as feeling like I needed somebody to throw me a life preserver and he threw me an anchor. And I just went under. And I felt like, yeah, I am emotional because I don't know how to get through one day, one night at a time. that's all I can do.

And I left there and said, that's it. I'm done with medicine. No one's helping me and I can't do this. And I was just trying to survive literally 12 hours at a time, daytime, nighttime, nighttime, daytime, nighttime. And only my husband knew, Sheldon, what was going on. And it was just so incredibly painful physically and emotionally because I felt so despondent. Am I crazy? Am I too emotional?

I know this is real pain. What do I do? So I did what you should not do, which is go online and start searching your symptoms. and diagnosing yourself and finding out like you're dying. But you probably felt desperate at that point. You tried to go the expert route. I did. And I felt like I'm going to find something somewhere online.

And I did find these message boards and these chat groups that were talking about these symptoms and being turned away from emergency rooms and feeling so despondent. And people on this chat room were talking about wanting to end their lives. That didn't sound crazy to me at all. At the time it sounded, okay, I'm pushing into the second year of this of having no answers and being in pain all the time and feeling like barely existing. Like I have written about this before and saying, when you live like that, nothing, you look forward to nothing.

There's no trip you want to go on. There's no meal you want to eat. Nothing is funny. Everything just feels like you're trying to exist. And that's where I was. It's hard for me to even understand how you were doing your job, which takes a lot of eyesight. You've got to read the teleprompter.

I imagine that was a struggle too. It was. It was. And I was hesitant to let me. my team or anybody at work know because I felt so weak and I didn't have a description. I didn't even tell my parents. Right. Because I'm thinking what do I, I don't even have a diagnosis to tell you or the language to tell you what this is other than I'm in a really bad place. So Sheldon knew. And after reading that message board and these people talking about ending it, I thought, man, it would be so nice to just go to

sleep. The Lord knows how much I'm struggling. Just wake up in heaven. Like just be done with this. I can't fathom another 40 years of my life living like this. There were times. I couldn't fathom 40 seconds. I mean, I just was in such excruciating pain all the time. And I sat down and remember it was a Sunday night. I sat on the bed just pouring out my heart with Sheldon and crying. And he knew and saying, like, I'm really, this is as dark as it's gotten. And him saying, we will figure this out.

We'll clean out our bank accounts to our last time. We will find you the doctor. We're not going to give up on this. And I'd been so adverse to going back to medicine because it hadn't worked for me, traditional medicine. And I was always so struck during this by Paul's words in Corinthians where he talks about that thorn in his flesh. And of course I read that a million times, but now I was living it and saying, you know,

he'd ask the Lord three times, take this from me. And Lord's like, nope, my strength is made perfect in your weakness. And Paul goes on to say, therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on me. So I never turned my back on God, like, why are you letting this happen? And I know for some people, that's a very natural part of their journey and that's where they go. For me, I was just clinging even tighter to him and saying, okay, your answer may be no. You're not going to get healed of this.

But please, please, Lord, give me somebody to help me with this. Send me to the right doctor. So I decided the next day I was just going to get up and start calling and start finding. And I'd seen an article on one particular doctor in D.C. Who was just lauded across the board. I was afraid to go back to some fancy specialist. but it talked about him being very good with corneas. And I thought, this is where my problem is.

And let me call. And I called and they were like, we're not really taking new patients. And I said, you know, do you have any cancellations? Can you put me on a list? I'll do anything. And they said, let me put you on hold. The woman came back and said, I just had a cancellation for tomorrow. Can you come?

Wow. And I was like, thank you, Lord. And I said, I prayed, get me through one more night. Just this night until I can get to this doctor tomorrow. I was like, I will be there. I was filling in for my colleague the next day for Brett Bear for his 6 p.m. Eastern show. And I left her in the middle of the day to go to this appointment. And I got there and the physician's assistant was fantastic.

They do the whole workup, you know, before the doctor comes in. And I could hear him slip the file into that slot outside. I heard the doctor pick it up. And when he came in, he said, oh, I know what you have. Before I had ever, he hadn't looked at my eyeballs, had done none of that. And it was this weird, hopeful feeling that I really had not had in almost two years. at that point. And he said, but let me check you out. I'm 95% sure. Got to the end of it. He said, this is what you have. And I'm certain of it. I'm surprised it wasn't more fully diagnosed and

treated before. What was it? It's called map dot fingerprint dystrophy, which is a mouthful. Yeah. But I have a genetic condition that my cornea is, most people, your cornea cells root back into your eyeball. And mine don't do that, so they tear off very easily. So I was tearing my cornea every time this was happening. So if you've ever scratched your eye or done something like that. And the doctor said to me, it's like a soccer field and somebody's out there playing with their cleats and you're just ripping this grass over and over. And nobody ever repairs the field. It never gets better. You're just, you're digging deeper and deeper every time you have these tears. And he's like, I don't know how you've gotten through the past year or so year and a half

with this level of pain. And I'm just so hopeful. I'm thinking, oh my goodness, I have not slept more than two or three hours in over a year. I'm in pain all the time. And this guy finally has answer. And I still for years would say to him, you're my answer to prayer, which kind of weirded him out. He wasn't a believer, but I'm like, it's okay. You need to know, you're my answer to prayer. And so even through that, God allows it to be a witness. But towards the end of that appointment, he said to me, before you go, here's the next appointment, here's the follow-up we're going to do, here's what we're going to try. There are a lot of different therapies we can try, but he said, just so you know, there's no cure for this. And that just sent me into a tailspin. I felt

God, how could you give me this bit of hope? It feels so cruel. I don't even remember leaving the office. I just wanted to get to my car as fast as I could because it was in complete panic mode at that point thinking like, oh no, he's told me what I have, but he's telling me there's no cure for this. And I just sobbed and sobbed and sobbed in the car. I knew I need to get back to work. I knew Sheldon was waiting for me to call him. And I really was crying like, Lord, how can this be? How can this be the answer? And I heard him say, not in an audible voice, but I heard. him in my spirit if you've felt that say to me not i'm going to heal you but i will be with you and he says that so many times in scripture and every time i see it in someone's story i'm like thank you lord for that promise you've promised again and again not that you're going to take away our pain or our trouble but that you'll be with us and that was enough for me to continue to go back to that doctor to try the therapies ultimately having a surgery which isn't a cure but it's pretty close for me and so I learned a lot through that. I would not choose it. I would not wish it on my worst enemy, but so much bittersweet there because it really deepened my faith in so many ways.

Wow. Made me much more empathetic and just grateful to be on the other side of that. Next sponsor is Patriot Mobile. So we're celebrating America's 250th birthday this year. A great way to support the country that we love is to not only vote every two years or every four years, but to vote with our dollar to make sure that we are supporting. American companies with American customer service, making American products that support our values. Patriot Mobile is one of those companies. They've been doing things differently for 12 years. They've been putting the customer first. They make sure that their service is top notch,

but they're not donating your dollars to these progressive causes to plan parenthood and Democrat politicians like so many of these big cell phone carriers are. So switch to Patriot Mobile. You'll make no compromise on your values and no compromise on the service. you'll just be supporting people that support the things that we do go to patriot mobile.com slash alley you'll get a free month of service when you use my code alley patriot mobile.com slash alley okay i know this is besides the important spiritual point that you're making but i'm just curious maybe there's someone out there who is struggling in the same way and they're like okay what was the surgery what was the therapy how did you get better so you can try a lot of things if you have this and i always love when i get an email or something from

somebody who has this because I'm like, man, I needed help. I'm happy to be your resource because I went down this path and there is actually an ointment that I put on still every night with my eyes. And it's a little bit weird. It's almost like putting Vaseline in your eyes, which kind of grosses people out. But it creates enough of a coating that it protects the cornea to get you through the night. Run a humidifier. I take fish oil, like anything that can help with moisture. At one point, I had my tear ducts plugged. They put these little tiny plugs in there that keeps more moisture. so you're not losing moisture through that opening. Interesting.

Kind of gross and weird, but anything that can moisturize is good. Now, the surgery I ultimately had, my doctor said it doesn't work for everybody. It's a super painful recovery, but you'll know when you get there. I think I remember when you had to take some time off for that. And it was several years into my working with him.

He's like, you'll know when it's your last option. So we got there. And essentially, they burn your corneas off with acid. I'm sure doctors, listening, there's a much better technology for this. But the hope is that your cornea regrows stronger and re-rots itself and repairs itself in some way, which is pretty much what happened for me. Now, I also got to get my vision corrected in that process. So the fact that I could see that cactus behind you, I could see you. I mean, that's a miracle for me having been in glasses since I was

seven, eight years old. But the recovery is really tough because you have destroyed your corneas. And for most people, you know, you come back in a couple weeks and you're much better. I could not see for a long time. I could see you. I mean, I had no clarity. I couldn't read a teleprompter. It was really difficult. And I tried to kind of fake my way through that. And I kind of laugh when I think about, this was during President Trump's first term, he was in Hawaii. And because it was daytime there, but I was doing the nighttime show at that time. It was live in our 11 p.m. hour. And normally, you know, what you do with these live events is you see the president, you watch them, and you just, describe to the audience what's happening. He's laying a wreath. He's doing this. He's whatever. Couldn't

see anything. And I mean, that prompter was up on the desk. And I was like, well, I can see a few words there, but I can't see what the president's doing. Luckily, my amazing friend and colleague Martha McCallum was in Hawaii. And I just had to keep tossing to her. Martha, what are you seeing now? What is the president doing now? Yeah. So there was a lot of faking it through that time until my vision came back. And it took a while. But several months into it, I began to be able to see details again and see things and improve. And I'm just, I think anytime you walk through difficult things, it, I hope it does. It, in my case, made me so much more grateful for just little things. And God's faithfulness through that. Yeah. And it really does give you so much understanding

for what other people go through. I haven't had something chronic like that, but just in the past, going through, you know, birth and healing from that, C-sections, different things. I'm like, man, this is really painful. There are people who have. have this level of pain or more every single day without relief. I think about that woman who was bleeding for 11 years before she just touched the hymn of Jesus's robe and was healed. And I think about your story and like what faith it took for you to go back to the medical system and try to find an answer, what faith it took for that woman after 11 years of probably trying everything, every holistic solution, every herb under the sun. She was an outcast and she had enough faith

in that moment to reach for Jesus and just ask for help. And, you know, I just think about how God uses pain for a purpose. You write about that, that your pain doesn't have to be without purpose. And it's part of that purpose is like the building up of our faith, even if it's really hard to understand in the midst of that. Yeah, and I love her story so much. I'm so glad you brought that up because she really had spent everything she had. She tried everything.

And think about she would have been considered unclean with that. bleeding. So she shouldn't have even left her house and certainly not have approached this esteemed rabbi if that's how you viewed Jesus, even if you didn't yet see him as the son of God, certainly not to be out in that crowd and certainly not to reach out and touch him. And I love that Jesus, I mean, obviously he knows. He feels, you know, scripture tells us the power go out from him. And he's got people pressing it on every side and he stops. Who touched me? He knows who touched him. And how many people were touching him at that point? But he says to her daughter, Which makes me, I feel like I want to cry when I think about that because it's like he knew how much pain she had and how much bravery it took for her to show up there.

And he doesn't condemn her and say, how dare you, you unclean woman touch me? He says, daughter, first thing he says to her. And then he says, your faith has made you whole. I mean, he credits her with reaching out and having that faith. And I just think that's such a beautiful thing. If people think of God as vengeful and angry and listen, he has that. He's a holy God. There's that part of him.

But how did Christ describe himself, gentle and lowly? I mean, he was there to redeem, not to condemn. Yes, turn from your sin. Yes, the woman in adultery that he caught there. He redeemed her. Turn from your sin. But he wasn't just about that message. That was why he came and to save us.

But he pours out so much mercy and grace and kindness and love. Women were part of his ministry, which was revolutionary back then, that they were part of his inner circle. I mean, he was really progressive in that sense of the word, and that he was pushing the boundaries of what the religious leaders and the norms of the day were to say, I'm here for everyone. I'm here for everyone ever created in my image, past, president, or future. And just love how much he pours out on her. Yeah. He certainly probably was considered progressive. And he's like, well, I'm actually the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. I don't fit your labels. And so I'm foundational. Everything that Jesus does. has always been true and has always been the most righteous and has always been good. So like his recognition of women, his recognition of children, it did so buck up against the

culture at the time, even much of the Jewish culture at the time. And yet, like, he has always been the source of what is actually good, right, and true. And I just love, I love that about him. I love him being the source of those things. You know, I'm going to put us both on the spot as we're talking about the purpose of pain because I actually got a message this morning from someone who I think is probably not a believer but is exploring. And she asked me what kind of God would need suffering to glorify himself or need pain to glorify himself? And that's a good question. I just want to tell that person if they're listening. It's a very good question. It's a really interesting question that we as Christians need to grapple with. I don't know that you or I have the perfect

apologetics answer for that. But I wonder if you could just explore more the idea of what you talk about, that pain comes with a purpose and there is something good in it, not just for God, but also for us. And I love that person reached out to you and that that question came in because we should question. And God can handle our questions. When I get angry at him or I question him, I think that that's, you know, why not take it to him? And I think that's the number one question I probably get, I don't know about you, where people would say, why does God allow pain? Why do children suffer? Why do these things happen? And it's not easy. I don't have a pat answer for. other than we're not living in the world he planned for us. I mean, Eden was going to be perfection.

We were in perfect fellowship with the Lord. There was no sin. There was no barrier between us. But now we're in a fallen world where there is sin, there is suffering. There's also free will, meaning God's going to allow people to do things that are evil. He's also going to allow us to choose him. That's, you know, part of free will. Suffering, I think, if we're thinking about it for ourselves. I know for me, matured me, made me more empathetic, made me more willing to look out for other people. And gosh, you write so well about this issue of empathy and toxic empathy and what empathy is and isn't. And it's such a clear message that you have on that. And I think we are called to be empathetic. But did I need to be more empathic? I did. Did I need to be less

judgy? Yeah. I mean, in some ways, part of my growing up in church, church in particular was very legalistic. And so I got a lot of judginess in there that I got to scale back. So I think suffering matures us and makes us more Christ-like. If that's what our ultimate goal is to be more Christ-like, I did not come out of the womb, Christ-like. I came out selfish and I came out self-centered. So while I wouldn't choose suffering, I do see the purpose of it for maturing me. Yeah. I think it's important to remember, too, that God doesn't need anything. Like he doesn't need actually suffering. He doesn't need us to give him glory, but he loves us.

And so there must be something in the things that he allows or causes that is actually good for us in the long run, even if we can't see it. And I think like as a parent, there are things, disciplines that are good for my children that in the moment seem like suffering, eating vegetables, eating their chicken, things like that. Yes, they would perceive in the moment. it to be loving if I gave them ice cream and cupcakes for dinner. They would. But if I fed them that every night, they would actually look back and say, well, why didn't my mom ever give me healthy food? Now I'm riddled with all of these health problems. And it might not be a perfect analogy, but there are things that seem unpleasant at the time for our kids. And actually, I can't explain to them fully. They don't understand counting macros and protein and all the things that are going on in their

body. And it would not help if I explained it to them in the moment. It wouldn't help if I explained all of that because, you know, it's my four-year-old and she doesn't have the capacity. It would make her angrier and more confused, actually. Sometimes I just have to say, no, this is what you're going to do. Trust that I love you. And I think if that is the gap of understanding between two finite people who are just, you know, a couple decades apart, that how much of a gap of understanding is between an infinite God and us, that even if God explained to you in the moment, this is why I'm allowing your eyes to be painful, you wouldn't have wanted to hear it, probably. And you might not have been able to understand it. So I think sometimes God just reminds us of the title of your book. Have faith in me. Nothing is impossible with me. Just have faith in me. And hopefully on the other side of glory, like we're going to see this grand tapestry of why things happen the way they did. Do you have like a list of questions? I do. Like for when we get there on the other side. But then I think they probably won't matter at all. We won't think about them at all. I think my questions that I have now will like everything will be resolved in a way that I'm not going to say, okay, Lord, here are my 360. seven questions I've been keeping for when I get here. Yeah. You know, I don't know.

I do, though, hope that there are things that we can see that we don't get the full picture of in scripture. I think about, like, Joseph's story, when his brothers finally, when he finally reveals himself to the brothers and they have to go back to their dad and be like, oh, Joseph's alive. There's so much of the conversation we don't have there. Like, what did they decide they were going to tell the dad? Yeah.

Like, surprise. He must have gotten kidnapped when we were supposed to be, you know, he was coming to visit us. I mean, I just, those kinds of things, too, are a little bit more lighthearted, but I think there are a lot of things that we won't have answered this side of heaven. But I got a lot of questions. And I wonder if we'll be so joyful and worshipful at then, that those questions won't matter anymore. Yeah. Or if there will just kind of like be a knowing and a satisfaction. I don't know. I'm reminded of that lyric in the song when we've been there 10,000 years. We'll have no less days to sing God's praise. And so I guess we have time for the questions and the

sitting in the worship and all of that. All right, another American company that you need to support. This is like a two for here because when you buy your meat from good ranchers, you're supporting this Christian family-owned American company, but then you're supporting all of these other business owners, the American farms and ranches that really keep our country going. Unfortunately, when you go in the grocery store and you see the meat that's on the shelf, it might even say made in the USA. Did you know that the regulations only require? that you have to have packaged the meat in the USA to put that sticker on there. But with Good Ranchers, you are guaranteeing that your steaks, all of your cuts of meat, your beef, your chicken,

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decades, but specifically how you tie this truth, faith in God's omnipotence, hope that he's coming back and he's going to make all things right, joy that's found in the strength of the Lord, when you talk about some really, really hard things. Yeah, I don't know how people without faith do it without a belief in all of those things because you do see horrible things. I've been in the middle of natural disasters and hurricanes and crimes against children. I mean, it can chip away at your soul if you don't believe that there is going to be ultimate redemption that good triumphs over evil and God has promised to make all things new and that all

of that will be redeemed. So for me, I've always been in the word, journaling. studying, praying. It became, though, during COVID for me, a complete non-negotiable in the morning. Because some mornings, you get busy, you oversleep, things are crazy, you've got little ones. I mean, you know, for me, mornings are when I do my devotions and do my reading. But during COVID was the one time I couldn't separate myself from a story because you do have to compartmentalize yourself at times. But we were all the story during COVID. Like every one of us in the beginning had so many unknowns. We were frightened. We were worried about

people we loved. We just couldn't figure things out. It was hard. with lack of information. We have a lot of 2020 hindsight now, but we didn't then. And I remember getting up every day and having to do the news and think how many more people died today. We've got this counter from Johns Hopkins, if you remember, they had these counters on how many people were dying and how many cases. And it was such a doom death spiral. It was, there was real trauma for a lot of, for millions of people, billions of people around the world. And it was the one time I couldn't just go report on a story and then put it away and go home and see Shell and be fine. And I just, woke up so heavy-hearted every day like how much worse is this going to get today what bad news do I have to tell people today and so

that first thing in the morning having to be my time with the Lord and getting anchored in that I don't know what today is going to bring personally professionally that is such a source of strength for me in doing the work that I do and so having the eternal perspective like this thing today feels terrible and it is truly awful but there will be hope and joy and wiping away of every tear at some point I don't don't know how people do the job I do without that kind of assurance. Yeah. Now, you're a straight newswoman. Has there ever been a time on any story that you have struggled not to insert your opinion or to editorialize it a little bit? Every day. Really? Every day? Well, because I think we all have such strong opinions of our own. And I always say when I come out of a show or an interview and I have people, and I really don't look at much social media anymore, it's become such a dumpster fire of the soul. But when I come out or I get emails from people and like, they are so mad on both sides of any issue. Like, you know, I'll get, you took your talking points straight from President Trump.

Did he call you right before the show and tell you what to say? Or you're so mean to President Trump and disrespectful of him. Why do you hate President Trump? And I'm like, these two people just watch the same show. Yeah. So I feel like I'm doing my job if people, people do a lot of projection. They're frustrated. I get that.

People are so frustrated on either side of these conversations. But I also have to check myself that I don't overcorrect because sometimes you're thinking like, okay, I know how I feel very personally about this issue. So I'm going to really sanitize every single potential comment here. Well, I don't want to do that to the detriment of getting facts out to people and just letting them decide for themselves. But there's some topic because it's harder than others to really say, okay, I know how I feel very strongly about this. And if people get to know me enough, they're probably going to be able to figure out some of that.

But my job for the viewer who tunes in on Sunday morning is to let them hear from both sides, all sides of a story. And I trust them to be discerning enough to make their own decisions. Do you feel that the career path or the industry that you're in of true journalism, Sands bias has changed a lot over the past, I don't know, a couple decades? I think what's tricky is that people who were viewed as straight news reporters or hosts or anchors have become advocates, which I think is fine. There's some really persuasive. intelligent, entertaining advocates out there. But just be honest about what you are. I think if you label yourself like, I am an advocate for this particular issue or this cause, or I'm a commentator,

or I'm an opinion host, great. There are so many good products for that out there, left, right, and center that I think are thoughtful. I think it's when you have opinions and you weave them into everything that you do and you come in with preconceived notions but still continue to call yourself a straight news reporter or journalist. That's where you're doing a disservice to people at home and why they're so distrusting of the media, because they can sense it. They're not stupid. And people feel like, well, that didn't sound like a straight news report.

Clearly, you were bashing this person or this idea or this policy. So you have a position. And that's fine. If you do, just own it. Okay, tell me how you navigate this. I wasn't planning to ask this. And this might not be an issue at Fox. It probably would be another issue at maybe some other networks.

But nowadays, I think it is really hard to be unbiased and precise, even in our language, there are so many euphemisms used to describe things like reproductive health care or women's health care or the whole pronoun issue. Obviously you as a Christian, you want to tell the truth, even if your job is to be unbiased. So how do you navigate this like war of words that we're in? Yeah, that's such a good point. I think it's so tricky because there are even news organizations who will put out sort of a bulletin or guidance. Like we're now using this word. And this is what we'll do in our coverage. I've never run into that at Fox ever. I've never had anybody say to me,

this is how we're going to refer to this. So as much as people may think from the outside, like, oh, Fox has their buzzwords and tells you what to do, I love that it's the one place I've worked where I've never been given guidance on, this is how we're going to refer to this. It's, we trust you. You're an adult. You're a journalist. And you're going to use the language that you think is factually appropriate in these cases. So I've never gotten dinged internally or had anybody say to me, we're going to do it this way. We do have conversations that words do sort of morph, over time. And if they're changing in a way that is simply more descriptive, that's fine. If we're trying to neutralize or take a position through the wording, I'm not going to do that. You know,

I'm going to just call facts for facts for what they are. Right. Okay, you told me that you love to quote, nerd out about the Supreme Court. So tell me why you love reporting on SCOTUS. I, you know, I was a lawyer. I went to law school and practiced for a few years. And so I have so much love for the court. And the thing about it, too, is there are no cameras there. It's very old school in a lot of ways. It's really unlike the rest of Washington is that you don't have these guys running to the cameras to make statements all the time. They're very cloistered and they want to be viewed as very apolitical. And I think they all respect the institution and take that very, very seriously. Access to them is difficult. It takes a lot of time to build relationships over there.

And I just, I love a good opinion, you know? And then it's terrifying. I can be remember before I got into the business, 2000 happened in that election. And I remember seeing reporters out there on the steps of the Supreme Court trying to read through this thing and get through it. And I just had like these panic attacks from law school where the professor's yelling at you and you're trying to figure things out. And I'm like, why would anybody do that? Like it seems so hard and crazy. And now I do that. And I, man, I pray so much for guidance to get things right and just to be accurate and slow. And we're not always perfect. And we have to own that if we're not. But I just have such a reverence for what they do.

And they all really have very distinct personalities all nine of them. And to spend a little time with them away from that, you see their sense of humor and you see where they're coming from. And I think they're all very intelligent people. Next sponsor is preborn. You'll know how passionate I am for preborn children and for the amazing work that pregnancy centers do in serving these women, meeting them where they are, loving them, telling them the truth about the life inside their womb, then giving them what they need. need to make that life affirming choice, one of the most important steps that these pregnancy centers take is offering a free ultrasound. Because then the woman, she sees that Planned Parenthood and all of these abortion activists have been lying to her. This is not just a club of

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Justice Alito, but Justice Thomas is a more senior member of the court. Now, this is just my educated guess. I don't think Justice Thomas ever steps down. I hope not. I think that he will pass away on the, not literally on the bench, but I think he loves the court, is so devoted his life to it. Yeah. And it's so many people who really tried to stop him from getting there. I think he takes joy in that job. I think he takes joy in showing up every day, like, yep, still here. Right. So I feel like I wouldn't expect, I'd be surprised to get a retirement from him. People have to think, and justices, like I said, want to be viewed as apolitical. They don't want to make political decisions, but they're under so much pressure when a midterms coming, when the Senate could flip.

And that affects the ability of the president to get somebody confirmed. Yeah. You know, they're human. They have to, those things have to calculate in there. I would think and have no indication at all, but I would say if someone retires, it would be Justice Alito before it would be Justice Thomas. But they've hired clerks. They're moving forward. They've given no indication they're going anywhere.

Yeah. It's so tough because I want Thomas to stay in there forever. But I'm like, you cannot die, though, when a Democrat is in office. Right. And they have to think about those things. Right. Right. Right. Alibeth has forbidden you, Justice Thomas. You can't go anywhere. That's the end of it. That's the end of it. But they do as much as they don't want to. There's got to be some political calculation in their brain. I mean, think about all the pressure that Justice Ginsburg was under and how the left was furious at her for trying to hold on. And, um, and, it would be really impossible probably to get somebody like her or Justice Scalia confirmed now. I mean, because they had such strong opinion. She had been an advocate for abortion and for other things and for, you know, things that would be viewed as left-leaning things as an advocate that she'd done that. I don't know that you could get confirmed. Right. Having strong advocacy and really important issues on either side now. And you think about them, they were confirmed like 95 to nothing, 98 to nothing.

Now it's all about counting partisan votes and seeing how you can maneuver. And sometimes that means that, you know, the GOP doesn't all stick together. They vote for Democrat nominees or they don't vote for Republican nominees sometimes. So it's very much a numbers game. And so I just have to think, in my heart of heart, the justices are aware of all of that. Yeah. Kavanaugh, Amy Coney Barrett, and Roberts in Gorsuch have all at different times disappointed conservatives or surprised conservatives. Do you think there's anything that conservatives misunderstand about these justices or,

Or if you could just say, okay, but this is how they think or this is kind of like why they aren't necessarily reliable like Thomas or Alito are because this is their process. I do think people get upset because it's the big case where one or two of those votes go in a different way and they're not with Thomas or Alito that people get really frustrated. But like 95, 98 percent of the time those justices vote together and they do stick together as a conservative bloc. on many things. There's some weird splits here and there sometimes. But I think that Justice Barrett, Justice Gorsuch has a little bit of a libertarian streak to him, I think, and I think that that's going to take him in a different direction sometimes. He's got some pretty specialized topics that he does his own thing on, too, like Native American rights and issues because he served out in the 10th Circuit, Colorado, that's where he's from. He has a special understanding of that.

Justice Barrett, I think, very much like all of them, wants to be seen independent as an independent. And I can see this from her on the bench when she asked questions. She's very meticulous and very pointed with both sides. She was a professor for a long time too. And so I think they all just approach things in their own way. The conservatives will say they're about the text and the statute as it's read. And I think this tariff's decision when you saw the six three against the president, you know, the ones that he appointed who went with the majority and the chief justice are saying tariffs were not in the language of this statute. That word is not in It doesn't give the president that exact power, whereas the dissenters are going to argue,

but the spirit of the law does give the president that power. That's what they were arguing. But generally, the conservatives will say they're about sticking to the text of the statute and the history that matches it. And Justice Gorsuch in his tariff's concurrence that he had, I feel like I'm getting way too wonky now. But, you know, he actually called out both sides and said, hey, you guys have said that you would interpret things this way.

So why did you vote against it this time? Yeah. But he called out the liberal wing of the court, too, saying, you guys, you guys have. came to the same conclusion as we did, but for different reasons, you guys would have voted differently if this was President Biden. Yeah. So I like when the justices kind of call each other out. It actually gives me some clarity. Okay, last go to this question. Kataji Brown Jackson obviously gets a lot of attention because she was nominated and confirmed under Biden. I saw some chart, this was several months ago now, that showed that she speaks the most words of all of the justices.

Justice Thomas seems to be a man of few words, at least when, you know, they're, they're speaking out loud, not written words. Do you think that she actually is just similar to the other progressive justices and that she's just getting more attention because she's younger, she talks a lot? Or do you think that she is unique as far as the history of justices go? She does speak quite a bit. And for a newer justice, I picked up from some of the other justices more senior that they took notice of the fact that she was speaking so much during arguments. But she's been a judge on the bench for a long time. So that may just be her style. But she does speak quite a bit in court. And during COVID, they came with this new way of doing things because they

weren't actually meeting for part of that time. And so they were literally on phones. And so they came up with this order where the senior most person goes first and they work through. And so she's the last person now. And so any unanswered question that she's got, like she's the cleanup batter for whatever's happening. And so she's been taking notes the whole time waiting through eight justices for her turn. So maybe it's just that she's kind of built that up. But some people, like you say with Justice Thomas, he's very reserved from the bench. I think he knows having read all the briefs and study the case before it ever comes to oral arguments. He's sort of one that's like, I'm pretty settled in where I think this case is going. And she just may be a more active questioner.

But I do think, you know, she said some things that have gotten headlines. Yeah. And the fact that she outside of the court does some interesting things too. She was, you know, did this Broadway play thing. and just things that are different that the other justices aren't doing. So I think she's the newer. You're going to get more attention when you're new. Yeah. Biggest decision that's going to come out

in the next few months. Well, it depends on your viewpoint. I mean, we're waiting on a big redistricting decision out of Louisiana that will talk about whether you can use race and shaping congressional districts and how you can use it.

And it could have a big impact on the Voting Rights Act. If it's decided early enough, it could impact the midterms this time. So that's a big political decision. on kind of the culture front, there's this big case we're waiting for out of Colorado where you've got therapists there who want to work with people who want to address the feeling of sexual urges and different things that they may come in saying, I don't want to have this

urge, I want to be counseled away for this or get help from that. Colorado passed a law that basically you can't do what's called conversion therapy or, you know, counsel people away from that. And the therapist is suing saying this is a free speech issue. the state will say it's a medical licensing issue. We don't want to license you to do something that they believe harming people. And the therapist is saying if people are coming to me and they want this kind of counseling, they're seeking it, you're stomping on my speech if I'm not allowed to give them that counseling. So that's a big one there.

There are a couple with executive power. Can the president fire certain people kick someone off the Fed board? You know, so there are a few. And there's also one that's not gotten a lot of attention, but it's out of New Jersey with a group of pro-life clinics. that we're facing a subpoena there for their donors list. And they're fighting that saying like, no. Again, another issue of our ability to people's right to associate or have speech through their contributions.

So that's one that kind of under the radar, but I'm watching that one closely. And I'm sorry. I'm adding so many. But you also have the two state cases that are dealing with whether people born biologically male can participate in female sports. West Virginia is kind of the lead on that one. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. There's a lot coming down. I know. There is more than I think. Yes. Okay. We'll have a lot to talk about on Relatable. You'll have a lot to report on. Thank you so much. And your book, Nothing is Impossible with God is available wherever books are sold. Anywhere you like to get them? It's already out right now. It is out of March 10th. It is out. Okay. It's not. Okay. It's not. But you can buy it now. You should pre-order now. And it's available on Amazon and all of that good stuff. And they'll get it on March 10th. Shannon, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Even lovelier in person. I really appreciate you. Well, I'm a big fan of yours. And so thanks for

having me. Thank you.