Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1315 | James Talarico Is More Demonic Than You Think

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Starting point is 00:01:20 It's brought to you by our friends at Go to GoToRanchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use Code Allie. Check out. That's good ranchers.com. Code Allie. Hey, guys. Happy Monday.

Starting point is 00:01:38 Welcome to Relatable. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. So James Tolariko won his primary, but the good news is that God's eternal plan of redemption is still going off without a hitch, that nothing surprises him. Even Jasmine Crockett losing her election, nothing takes him back, nothing throws him off. He always knows exactly what's going to go on. He is sovereign over everything. R.C. Sproll used to say there are no maverick molecules in all creation. Everything is. is in accordance to God's perfect will. And even all of the craziness and the wickedness and the evil that goes on in the world, while God doesn't cause any of that, he is still completely in control. And he's not doing nothing about that evil. Psalm 37 reminds us that he's coming back, that his anger is kindling, that his wrath is growing, and he will avenge his people. He's not doing nothing about the wickedness and the sin, the injustice that goes on in the world.

Starting point is 00:02:35 He is going to take care of it once and for all. He is the God of true justice. He is the source of truth. And when Jesus comes back, he won't arrive again as a meek and mild baby, but he will come as a warrior to make all things right, to make all things new. So whatever angst you feel about things that are disjointed or disordered or wrong in the world, just trust that God feels much angrier and more incensed about injustice and oppression. and he is going to do something about it. And in the meantime, he has preordained that you and I believers, that through our obedience, which might seem silly to the world, which might seem even mundane or meaningless to us,

Starting point is 00:03:23 that his will is actually accomplished through our words and through our actions. God doesn't need us. He doesn't need our prayer. He doesn't need our evangelism. He doesn't need our acts of courage to glorify himself or to accomplish his purpose. but in his grace and in his providence, he has chosen these things to be a means by which he does his work. And so just know this beautiful comfort that nothing in the life of a believer is wasted. There is nothing truly mundane. There is nothing truly boring or meaningless.

Starting point is 00:03:55 Every single thing we do echoes in eternity. And it won't be until the other side of glory that we see the fullness of the tapestry of our testimonies and how God has woven them together. So just remember, doing the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God, which we say every week on this show. It's not just about you doing the right thing. It is also about advancing God's kingdom, which is done through the mostly unseen and unsung acts of faithfulness of believers. And so we get to be a part of this grand narrative that is because of God always going

Starting point is 00:04:30 off without a hitch. No matter what happens in an election, no matter what the political climate here is, no matter what's going on with World War III, God is completely in charge. That's what we take comfort in and we take hope that Jesus will claim ultimate victory once and for all. Part of what we have to do as Christians is be a beacon of clarity and courage in this world that is constantly rewarding cowardice and is rife with confusion and chaos. And when a person rises up who represents that confusion and chaos but disguises it as light and truth and goodness, It is the responsibility of Christians, especially Christians with a platform with a microphone

Starting point is 00:05:11 like mine or for pastors out there with a pulpit like yours to ensure that we are pushing back against the confusion because remember Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Satan looks good. He sounds good. Remember that the fruit in the Garden of Eden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it looked good. It looked like it would taste good. And remember when Satan is trying to tempt Jesus in the wilderness, what does he?

Starting point is 00:05:36 he use? He uses scripture. So Satan knows the Bible. He makes his lies sound scriptural, sound holy, sound good, and sound palatable to the world. And slowly but surely chips away at our conscience, chips away at our wisdom, and leads us down a literally damning path. And I think the person who is most prominent that represents that best, that evil disguised as goodness is James Talarico, James Talleyico is a Texas state representative that is now the Democratic candidate for Senate in Texas. So on March 3rd, Tala Rico defeated Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett in the Texas Democratic primary for U.S. Senate. So he defeated her 52.4 percent to 46.2 percent, according to CNN. He is really the fastest growing stars, fastest rising stars, I would say, fastest growing, really celebrity.

Starting point is 00:06:36 but he's on the left side. He's got more than 2 million followers on Instagram and 1.6 million on TikTok. And if you look at his opponents on the Republican side, John Cornyn, Ken Paxton, they're in a runoff right now. And so we don't actually know who will be facing him in November on the Republican side. Their social media footprint is much, much smaller than his. That is not necessarily an indicator of who is going to win the election, but obviously that means that Cornyn and Paxton have some work to do, especially when it comes to the younger demographics. There is an analysis of social media engagement among Democratic officials, and Tala Rico trailed only Kamala Harris and Barack Obama.

Starting point is 00:07:19 Okay, so when it comes to social media influence, Tala Rico is number three. This guy reminds me a lot of Beto work. Remember, Beto ran for a lot of things. He ran primarily, or the race that I remember the most. most was against Ted Cruz. And he was literally that, like, how do you do fellow kids meme, if you know what I'm talking about, especially since his prop was actually a skateboard. We'll play you a video of that. Remember that? That was his way to relate to the kids and to relate to the voters. And Talariko kind of has the same air. He's trying to relate to the young people.

Starting point is 00:07:56 But his prop, his way of relating to the youths is following only fans accounts on Instagram. I'm not kidding. That was reported by the New York Post several months ago, despite this kind of like choir boy preacher, Christian schick that he has going on. It was reported in November 2025 that he was following at least 10 accounts on Instagram belonging to only fans models, escorts, things like that, just very like weird and creepy. That would have been an absolute disqualifying scandal, I think, that if you had someone who called himself a Christian preacher on the Republican right and was following those accounts, you would hear cries of hypocrisy and rightly so, but this was just a blip on the radar for this guy.

Starting point is 00:08:36 This was kind of just a feature of his multifaceted personality, I guess. He also appeared on Joe Rogan in July of last year and we'll play some of those clips. We responded to them at the time, so you can go back and kind of listen to that breakdown. But Rogan told him in that interview that he should run for president. Joe Rogan told James Talarico this radical. left is that he should run for resident. Politico noted that Talarico took a, quote, big tent approach to his campaign by appealing to voters from both parties and independents. And an example of that is his reply to Greg Abbott just the other day after the Austin shooting last weekend, where he said

Starting point is 00:09:21 dangerous people should not be allowed into the country. Okay, dangerous people should not be allowed to get guns. Texans understand this. He says to Greg. Abbott, you apparently don't. Greg Abbott was responding to James Talleyko saying that this was some gun show loophole, which of course is not true. But that's actually the most moderate I've heard James Talarico. And that is his strategy there. Democrats always moderate when they're running in these red states, but he is a radical. Just listen to what he actually believes about immigration policy. Southern border should be like our front porch. There should be a giant welcome mat out front.

Starting point is 00:10:01 One key to his rising prominence has been promoting a big tent version, not just of the Democrat Party, but also of Christianity. And it's big tent in some sense, in that people of all different faiths and all different backgrounds and all different moralities can be counted as Christian, according to James Tala Rico, except for those of us who call ourselves evangelicals. and actually believe the Bible to be authoritative. He is a progressive seminary student. He's a former middle school teacher. He publicly supports abortion, homosexuality, and transgenderism, as we will get into. He often appeals to his progressive Christian morals, even though that's an oxymoron, and beliefs to defend his arguments and his policy positions, even as he criticizes conservative Christians for being Christian nationalist for bringing our convictions into the Public Square in similar ways, but with opposite views. And this is a tactic that has made him go viral

Starting point is 00:11:01 several times in the past year and has made him very appealing to a lot of people, even moderate. So we'll go through some of those views and we'll go into his background. What led James Talarico to the place that he is now? And what was the theological upbringing and the influence on his life that made him land on some of the wildest and most unhinged positions that you can think of. Let me pause and tell you about our first sponsor for the day. That is seven weeks coffee. So thankful for seven weeks coffee, not only because they provide really great tasting, high quality, sustainably sourced and ethically grown and better than organic coffee beans, but also because they allow their coffee to serve a higher purpose. Seven weeks gestation,

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Starting point is 00:12:26 That's seven weeks coffee.com. In 2021, Talariko put God into radical transgender ideology and his support for laws that would allow kids to be mutilated on the Texas house floor. Here's not one. The first two lines of the Bible, the first two lines in Genesis, used two different Hebrew words to describe God. One is the masculine Hebrew noun for divinity. The second is the feminine Hebrew noun for spirit.

Starting point is 00:13:08 God is both masculine and feminine and everything in between. God is non-binary. So it's actually true that God is not male or female like we are. He doesn't have a body like we. do. And yet, this statement is inaccurate because God consistently refers to himself as father, as king, as Lord, in masculine terms. Also, if you go down further into Genesis 1, Genesis 1 27, it's very clear that regardless of what you think about the masculine features or the feminine features of God the father, what is clear is that he made us male and female.

Starting point is 00:13:56 There are not multiple words they're used for male and female. In fact, we read that God made man in his image, male and female. He created them. So he didn't say male, female, and non-binary, that he made multiple forms of chromosomal combinations that you can have besides XX and X, Y. He created us male and female. So we see Talariko, this theme over and over again, that he really uses God as a mascot, as a means to advance his political ends. He does not submit to God as the ruler and the authority over the universe. If he actually believed what Genesis 1-1 says that in the beginning God created the heavens in the earth,

Starting point is 00:14:38 then he would see if he's creator, then he's also the ruler over all of it. Then he's the definer of all things. He's the arbiter of truth, the determinant of morality. And he and he alone has the right and responsibility to be the decider of all things, the definer of all things. He and he alone gets to say what's right and what's wrong, what's true and what's false, what a woman is, what she's not, when life begins, why it matters, to define the parameters of holy sexuality and to decide what marriage is. But of course, he doesn't submit to God as the creator and the ruler of all things. He sees God as a political pun. Also, James Talariko decided to turn a sermon at a local Church, St. Andrews Presbyterian Church around Austin, around Round Rock, into some kind of

Starting point is 00:15:28 political stump speech about transgenderism and abortion, sought too. This summer, more than half our population became second-class citizens. Every one of our neighbors with a uterus became the property of the state. And nothing, nothing is more un-Christian. Christian than that. I want to acknowledge that our trans community needs abortion care too. Defending trans Texans is something we have to do every day at the state capitol. And you better believe I'll be giving sermons on that too. So when I use the word woman, it should not be understood as an exhaustive term, but rather as a lens through which to understand, examine, and interrogate

Starting point is 00:16:15 patriarchy. So right there, he gives us three positions that a Democrat of even 10 years ago would not have dared to represent publicly. One, that is normal and even moral to switch sexes, that it's possible to actually switch sexes, and that it is important that people who do switch sexes, especially people who identify a so-called trans men, are able to have a taxpayer-funded right to kill their baby inside the womb. And then the other position that this nexus is so important that it needs to be represented publicly at a church. And also this cumbersome language of people with uteruses really reduces what a woman is

Starting point is 00:17:02 into her just biological capacity, into her reproductive organs, which is the exact opposite of what progressives say that they're doing. So who is James Tolariko? How did this person, with all of these kooky beliefs, rise to such prominence? He was first elected as a Texas House representative in 2018 after he defeated Republicans, Cynthia Flores. And he rose to prominence a couple of years ago when he went viral for his videos of speeches on the Texas House floor opposing the legislation to display the Ten Commandments in Texas Classrooms, Stop 4. forcing our religion onto Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, and atheist students is not love. Forcing teachers to put up a poster in their classrooms against their wills is not love. Love does no harm to a neighbor. Okay, I bet he would argue, though, that Christian teachers could be forced to call a child by the wrong preferred pronouns, or could be forced to teach things about the acceptance of LGBTQ ideology,

Starting point is 00:18:14 even though it opposes their worldview. And he says this is forcing religion upon people who don't believe in Christianity, but of course that's not true. Displaying the Ten Commandments is about American history. You actually cannot understand Western civilization. You can't understand America without understanding Christianity, without knowing the Bible, without understanding the Ten Commandments. So even just from a literary or historical educational perspective, displaying the Ten Commandments, I think is really foundational in understanding the country that we live in.

Starting point is 00:18:47 But also, they're just good rules for life. And it's really hard, I think, from a moral perspective, to argue against them. Talariko is a lifelong professing Christian, and he often cites his grandfather as a major influence. His grandfather was a Baptist preacher who taught him Jesus' greatest command, he says, is to love God. and love your neighbor. South five. My granddad was a Baptist preacher in South Texas. And when I was little, he told me that Christianity is a simple religion.

Starting point is 00:19:16 Not an easy religion, he would always clarify, but a simple religion because Jesus gave us two commandments, love God and love neighbor. And there was no exception to that second commandment. Love thy neighbor regardless of race or gender or sexual orientation or immigration status or religious affiliation. and it's why I have fought so hard for the separation of church and state in the state capital in Texas. Obviously, it is true that the greatest commandments are to love God and love your neighbor. How do we obey God?

Starting point is 00:19:48 We obey God by keeping His commandments. And we love others by defining love how God defines love. First John 4-8, God is love. So love isn't affirming sin. Love isn't telling someone they could be born in the wrong body. Love isn't refusing to show people the truth in the Ten Commandments or refusing to preach the gospel to people, love is walking and speaking in agreement with God because we can't out love God. We can't out compassion him.

Starting point is 00:20:13 So the most loving thing we can do with our lives, with our words, is agree with God. Now, Talariko is still a member of his childhood congregation. It's a very progressive church in Austin, St. Andrew Presbyterian Church. And it shouldn't be surprising at all that in the About Us page of this church, it says, we are Christ-centered yet. it's never good when you see a church saying we are Christ-centered, but we respect and learn from all religions of love. Well, again, that's just not a Christian position. If God is love and we believe in the triune God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit that no other religion believes in,

Starting point is 00:20:51 then he is actually the only source of love. There aren't other religions of love in addition to Christianity. So it doesn't come as a surprise that he is essentially, Tala Rico is essentially a universalist who claims to be a Christian and uses some Christian tenets but actually doesn't believe in the exclusivity of Christ. We'll get into that in just a second. Let me pause, tell you about our next sponsor. That is Alliance Defending Freedom. So we've got some amazing news from our friends at ADF. They've just announced that the state of Vermont has agreed to change its policy that discriminated against Christian foster families. Families like the Gants and other families, we've had Jessica Bates,

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Starting point is 00:22:12 foster and adopt without consenting to allowing their child to attempt to change their gender. I mean, this is just so obvious and we need lawyers like the ones at ADF fighting for those rights. Go to join ADF.com slash Ali. Learn more about this incredible victory and how you can support ADF. Join ADF.com slash Alley. He also did an interview with Ezra Klein of the New York Times where he essentially says all religions are true. Sot 6.

Starting point is 00:22:45 I believe Christianity points to the truth. I also think other religions of love point to the same truth. I think of different religious traditions as different languages. So you and I could sit here and debate what to call this cup and you could call it a cup in English. We'd call it something else in Spanish and French. But we are all talking about the same reality. I believe Jesus Christ reveals that reality to us, but I also think that other traditions reveal that reality in their own ways with their own symbol structures. And I've learned more about my tradition by learning more about Buddhism and Hinduism and Islam and Judaism.

Starting point is 00:23:19 And so I see these beautiful fake traditions as circling the same truth about the universe, about the cosmos. Well, there's certainly nothing beautiful about Islam. That is for sure. We can see the fruit of Islam throughout the world, which stands for everything that Tala, Rico claims to stand against the oppression of women and children, violence. Certainly there is gross wealth disparities that are actually pushed forward by tyrannical policy in places where Islamic regimes are in charge. And then, I mean, the obvious truth is that you can be someone who believes those things, but you can't be a Christian and believe that all religions kind of point to the same truth. Because in John 14, 6,

Starting point is 00:24:04 The Jesus that James Talarico claims to follow says, I am the way, the truth, the life. No one comes to the father except through me, except through me. He is affiliated with the fully affirming Presbyterian Church of the United States of America. So this is PCUSA. There's PCUSA, which is liberal, and we'll get into that in a second. And then there's PCA that is a collection of churches within Presbyterianism that. are more theologically conservative or theologically faithful. His church is also part of what's called the reproductive freedom congregations. This is a Texas movement to remove abortion's

Starting point is 00:24:48 stigma. The church also celebrates transgenderism. We played you that clip earlier where he's at his church saying trans communities need abortion care, neighbors with uteruses. Tala Rico has a year of classwork left before he receives his MDiv from Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary, obviously a very progressive institution. He's studying to be a pastor, but he says, of course, his studies are on hold because he believes that this is where God has called him right now. He said this in a New Yorker article from February. We'll get more into the history of Presbyterianism in a second and how this kind of shaped his ascendance and shaped his theology. First, I want to dive in a little bit to that New Yorker article.

Starting point is 00:25:30 So the New Yorker published a profile of Talarico on February 23rd, titled James Talarico puts his faith in Texas voters. This is an excerpt where Talarico was in a room with former Dallas mayor, Mike Rawlings, and First Presbyterian Church of Dallas Senior Pastor, Amos De Sosa. DeSauza asked Tala Rico, what kind of welcome are you getting from evangelicals. The reason he's asking this is because 90% of white evangelicals voted for President Trump in 2024 and Tallahico said, you know, we think that we can make headway with Christians. Evangelicals and he shrugged. He's distinguishing here between Christians who he believes are Christians

Starting point is 00:26:17 and evangelicals. What he's doing is insinuating that evangelicals are a lost cause because evangelicals won't vote for him. Talariko said in an interview last year, there are a lot of people who feel that the Democratic Party in recent years has been hostile to people of faith. Talking about faith, he added, this creates an opportunity for a connection. I don't think it automatically wins you over, but it starts a conversation. So we can see here what his goals are. His goals are to appeal to Christians. Most Christians, no matter your denomination, do vote Republican. Now, it gets more and more Republican, the deeper you get into Christianity with white evangelicals being the stronghold for conservatism. They also lead the way in church attendance, lead the way and reading their Bible every day, lead the way and making donations.

Starting point is 00:27:13 And it really does, like as a white evangelical, the reason for this, the reason that we have the most conservative, I would say biblical position on issues like marriage, sex, sexuality. even things like immigration, it really does go back to our love for the Bible. And our belief in the importance of solid theology, the further you get away from that, the more liberal you're going to become. So if we look at Pew Research, for example, evangelical Christians have higher church attendance rates around 60% than other Christian groups, with the exception of Mormons, Mormons, 76%. but the reason we don't include Mormons, when we're talking about denominations of Christianity

Starting point is 00:27:57 is because it's not a denomination of Christianity. It's something else. 63% of evangelicals read the Bible outside of religious services at least weekly, while 30% of Protestants. So those are mainline Protestants. 29% of Orthodox Christians and 25% of Catholics do. And then you look at the fruit of that. Evangelicals, white evangelicals are far more likely than any. other Christian group to believe that abortion should be illegal. So, for example, 73% of white evangelicals believe that abortion should be illegal in all or most cases.

Starting point is 00:28:34 Versus white non-evangelical Protestants, so the James Talleyco, 33% believe that. Black Protestant, 26%, Catholic only 40%, and then the religiously unaffiliated, the people who love James Tala Rico most, only 13% of them. them believe that abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. So these are the people that aren't going to get on board with Talarico that he basically is saying is a lost cause. We evangelicals because we are so staunch in our biblical beliefs and we are so staunch in our views on abortion and gender and immigration and things like that. So I'm not really worried about our crowd. I am worried about those in the white non-evangelical Protestant world who must

Starting point is 00:29:22 might be conservative if it weren't for this deadly dose of toxic empathy that they are imbibing every day, this propaganda that makes them think that loving your neighbor means opening the border or loving your neighbor means affirming someone's so-called gender identity or that it's loving to women to legalize aborting their children because they might have a hard life Otherwise, those are the people for you and for me that we have to work really hard at channeling their compassion in the right direction. And most importantly, helping them see factual truth, political truth, and biblical truth. Those are the people that we're really going to be fighting over when it comes to James Talarico. That will be true in the next presidential election

Starting point is 00:30:09 too. They believe that there is a portion of evangelicals, a portion of Protestants, a portion of Catholics, that are up for grabs. They know a portion of Catholics are up for grabs because it's about 60, 40, 60 percent of Catholics tend to vote Democrat. But this evangelical stronghold, they are going to do everything they can to break down using religious sounding language to make it seem like the only Christian perspective is the progressive one. He had a lot to say about his beliefs about abortion and things like that on Joe Rogan's podcast. We'll play some of that in a second. let me pause and tell you about a very fitting sponsor. That is every life. So in everything we do, whether it's with our vote or our words or actions, but also how we spend our money, we need to be

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Starting point is 00:32:08 I say all this in terms of in context of abortion because before God comes over Mary and and we have the incarnation, God asks for Mary's consent, which is remarkable. I mean, go back and read this in Luke. I mean, the angel comes down and asks Mary if this is something she wants to do, and she says, if it is God's will, let it be done, let it be, let it happen. So to me, that is an affirmation in one of our most central stories that creation has to be done with consent. First of all, his rendering of that story is completely untrue. Gabriel doesn't actually ask for Mary's permission there. Yes, she accepts God's will and she should be honored for that. What an incredible blessing to be chosen as Jesus's earthly mother and to have your womb grow the Christ child. That is amazing. But she's simply a sense to what God has already decided. already chosen. She's not actually consenting to that. It's not like a choice that she is making here.

Starting point is 00:33:24 She simply is accepting the present reality, what God commands in that moment. And even if it were true, that this went the way James Tolariko said that it did, that Mary said, yeah, sure, you can do that, go ahead and conceive Jesus. That isn't a justification for killing a baby after he or she has been conceive to say that this passage about Jesus becoming flesh, becoming man is a justification for poisoning or dismembering babies inside the womb is so absurdly evil. I would love to debate James Tolariko on that passage and on his excuse or justification for abortion. He also makes this very troubling comment about Jesus' crucifixion. He said Jesus was crucified for, quote, confronting the powerful. Here he is. The second is crucifixion, right? That's Good Friday,

Starting point is 00:34:19 where Jesus, because he confronts the powerful, is executed on a cross, a humiliating death, along with other criminals. So this is a very common refrain that you see from a lot of these so-called progressive Christians that Jesus died because he was a revolutionary, because he fought against Roman power and he fought against empire because he was progressive and he fought for women and all of these things. Of course, that's not true. We actually did an episode about specifically who killed Jesus, who was responsible for that. Why did that happen just a couple of weeks ago? And we will link that. But here ultimately is the answer, which is so different than what James Hallorico said. So why Christ actually died? Number one, God willed it. Acts 2.23, this Jesus delivered up

Starting point is 00:35:11 according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God. Definite plan and foreknowledge of God. Also, number two, he died because of the fulfillment of prophecy. 1 Corinthians 153 through 4, for I delivered to you as a first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures. So in accordance with the scriptures, this is something that something that was foreordained. Number three, to save sinners and reconcile us to God, Romans 5, 8, through 10. But God shows his love for us and that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since therefore, we have now been justified by his blood. Much more shall we be saved by him

Starting point is 00:35:53 from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his son, much more. Now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life? So, amazing. Also, Talariko's description of the resurrection in this interview as, quote, something where something beautiful and new rises from the ashes. It downplays the physical reality of Jesus rising from the dead. He uses the resurrection as an allegory. And this is really the prevailing view of people who call themselves progressive Christians. They tend to reject the historicity of the miracles of Jesus, including him defeating death, days after. after he was crucified.

Starting point is 00:36:36 Like everything else about Jesus, Talariko and others like him, see Jesus as a moral example. They see him as an activist. They see him as a revolutionary for progressive causes, like a cheerleader on the sidelines of their political fight.

Starting point is 00:36:51 They see him as a mascot. There was a man by James Cohn, and if you've been listening to Relatable, since 2018, you know who James Cohn is. We talked a lot about him from 2018 to 2020. He was a 20th century theological. and he popularized something called liberation theology and specifically for him black liberation

Starting point is 00:37:10 theology. But liberation theology is a school of theological thought to which Talarico holds that asserts that the Bible, the gospel, the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, the advancement of God's kingdom, the future hope that we have of a new earth and a new heaven is all actually about liberating the so called oppressed. So fighting white supremacy on behalf of black people, fighting immigration enforcement on behalf of immigrants, fighting capitalism on behalf of the port, et cetera. Cohn wrote this, quote, this is what Christ's resurrection means. The oppressed are freed for struggle, for battle in the pursuit of humanity.

Starting point is 00:37:48 So like James Salarico, James Cohn believed that every religion that speaks to the same truth, the truth of liberation, was a legitimate religion. So for him, the exclusivity of Christ and spiritual salvation from sin was really unimportant. And by the way, I just want to say that Martin Luther King shared these same beliefs about the gospel, about Jesus. He denied the resurrection. And this all reminds me, actually, of a quote that just came to mind from C.S. Lewis in the screw tape letters. Something that he writes in the voice of screw tape, which is a demon, trying to advise his nephew on how to pull his patient, a human being away from heaven, is that we want to, demons want to tempt us to use Christianity

Starting point is 00:38:39 as a means to our political ends. And so here's a quote from the screw tape letters. We do want and want very much to make men treat Christianity as a means, preferably, of course, as a means to their own advancement, but failing that as a means to anything, even to social justice for the enemy, who is God, will not be used as a convenience. Of course, that's what Talariko does. That's what James Cohn did. Really just seeing God, seeing Jesus as a means to an end, a mascot in their version of politics and Christianity.

Starting point is 00:39:16 And really, the mascot of their form of Christian nationalism. Because that's what Talariko represents, is a form of progressive Christian nationalism. He believes that his interpretation of the Bible should inform the law of the land. But if I were to say, well, Psalm 16 tells me very clearly that God knitted together all people in their mother's womb, that tells me a lot about the dignity and the sanctity of unborn life. I don't think that it would be good to legalize killing those babies inside the womb just because we can't see or hear them or just because they're young or dependent.

Starting point is 00:39:52 He would say that's fascism. That's Christian nationalism. Remember, it is only the conservative Christian that. is told that we can't bring the fullness of our worldview into the public sphere and into the voting booth. Tala Rico, of course, believes that that's perfectly fine. I believe that that is how we actually should inform our policy. Talarico butchers the gospel. First Corinthians 118 says, for the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God. This is why I

Starting point is 00:40:28 I say that Talariko is a left-wing atheist version of a good Christian because the things that he says totally makes sense to the world. It's not foolishness to the atheist. Everything that Talariko says sounds really good to the person who rejects God. If everything we are saying as Christians makes sense to the non-believer sounds good and persuasive at all times to the non-believer, that's not an indication that we're doing things well. That's an indication that we're going the wrong direction. If you read 1 Corinthians 1, we see that God flips everything on its head, that he chooses what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, what is weak, according to worldly standards, to shame the strong. This is a stumbling block to the Jews we read.

Starting point is 00:41:14 It is folly to the Greeks we read and 1 Corinthians 1. But it is the power of Christ to those who believe. It is wisdom to those who believe. We sound like a stench of death to those who are not believing, but the fragrance of God to those who are. But Talarico truly believes that his form of Christianity needs to be enforced through the law. And he basically tells Ezra Klein this in his New York Times interview here in Saudi. These politicians want a Christian nation unless it means providing health care to the sick or funding food assistance for the hungry or raising the minimum wage for the poor. And so it seems like they want to base our laws on the Bible until they read the words of Jesus. Welcome the stranger. Liberate the oppressed. Put away your sword. Sill all

Starting point is 00:42:06 your possessions and give the money to the poor. I mean, I'm not exactly sure a Christian nation is really what these people want. Okay. So again, the hypocrisy there is just so obvious. He wants a Christian nation, apparently, and he believes that all of those things, in the Bible should dictate our laws. But if I have a different interpretation of the Bible, I cannot use that interpretation to inform my belief about public policy, because if I do, it's fascism or Christian nationalism or theocracy. He just wants his version of theocracy.

Starting point is 00:42:37 By the way, Jesus did not say, welcome the foreigner and liberate the oppressed. Those are not things that Jesus said. If you're referring to the passage in Exodus that says you should welcome the sojourner, we have to read that in context where we also read that there is one law for the foreigner and for the Israelite. There weren't these loopholes in which migrants could take part in all of the privileges and the rights and the protection of Israel without obeying the law. They had to be circumcised. They had to follow all laws regarding sexuality and marriage and cleansing and ceremonies and all of that. And so I just think that if we are going to look at the old or the

Starting point is 00:43:16 New Testament to inform what we believe about policy, which I do think that we should when we are exegeding and interpreting scripture within context and accurately in light of the rest of scripture, in light of history, and in light most importantly of the gospel, which is not something that he does. And he's actually making the case here that commands for generosity for the Christian in scripture should mean that we support forced wealth redistribution, that we should support the government forcing money out of the hands of some people and giving to others. But that's not what the Bible is talking about when it commands us to care for the poor. We are to be generous and charitable. That means not under compulsion, but in accordance to our free will. Second Corinthians

Starting point is 00:44:04 9-7 tells us this. Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion for God loves a cheerful giver. We know that taxes are compulsory. Taxes are something that you have to give or else you will go to jail. So taxes don't count as following Christ's command to be generous and kind to others. Yet, Talarico says that it's actually the right that has co-opted Christianity. Sot 9. They convinced a lot of our fellow Christians that the most important issues were abortion and gay marriage. Two issues that aren't mentioned in the Bible, two issues that Jesus never talked about. Jesus in Matthew 25 tells us, exactly how you and I and every one of our fellow believers, how we're going to be judged and how

Starting point is 00:44:54 we're going to be saved. By feeding the hungry, by healing the sick, by welcoming the stranger, nothing about going to church, nothing about voting Republican. It was all about how you treat other people. Okay. Jesus does talk about marriage and sexuality. Matthew 19, 4 through 5, he makes it very obvious what the definition of marriages. He goes all the way back to creation. also of course abortion has talked about it's actually included in the big ten commandments thou shall not murder thou shall not murder and of course we know that christ doubles down on all of the ten commandments by saying it's not just about what you do it's not just about following the letter of the law it's about following the spirit of the law down to the heart which by the way you can't ever do perfectly and

Starting point is 00:45:40 that is why christ came to pay for your debt and to pay for your sin on the cross and to defeat death three days later. But yes, of course, the Bible speaks very clearly about condemning murder and condemning any sexuality outside of one man and one woman in the context of marriage. And so he's just lying to you there. So Talariko is attempting to get the mushy middle. He knows he's got all of the Democrats, but he is also attempting to get your friends. He's attempting to get those in your mom group who don't really pay attention to politics until it starts. going viral on her Instagram feed. He is appealing to the women that believe in every form of left-wing propaganda who might be instinctively or because of their husbands or because of their

Starting point is 00:46:29 parents conservative, but they believe the stories that are presented to them by the New York Times, by the influencers or the celebrities they follow. They're going to like his disposition. They're going to like how gently he speaks. He is going to say things that sound familiar to them. they sound familiar and sound Christian, they're going to be compelling. They're going to be persuasive. Our responsibility is to continue to push back in truth and gentleness and persuasiveness using the Word of God. So when you see your friend sharing a James Talarico post, when you see them

Starting point is 00:47:06 misusing scripture to justify the support of abortion, I want you to be fully equipped to be able to push back against them. nicely, kindly, of course, with respect, but completely unapologetically. And if you don't know what to say, just ask a question. Give a counterverse. Give a counterpoint. Send this podcast and say, well, will you listen to this and tell me what you think about it? And then we can discuss it later, especially if you have that kind of friendship with them. I really encourage you, like especially if you're in the state of Texas, I really encourage you to read toxic empathy. And you can get it from your library. I don't care if you buy it. You can borrow it.

Starting point is 00:47:44 from a friend, but I just really want you to be equipped with the facts, with the biblical truth, to be able to push back against that. I didn't know who James Talariko was when I first started writing toxic empathy, but really my entire book is a response to that kind of completely erroneous form of Christianity, which pushes bad and destructive and deadly policies, but also is a kind of theology that truly dams the soul. It dams the soul because it doesn't present you a true gospel, but a false one. So you shouldn't vote for him, but certainly you shouldn't follow his teaching either. All right, a little bit of a history lesson, which I think gives us context in just a second. Let me pause, tell you about our next sponsor, and that is preborn. So thankful for preborn

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Starting point is 00:49:19 Okay, so the liberation theology and the liberal theology that he espouses, it comes from a lot of places, but we can actually look to the history of the Presbyterian Church to see where all of this comes from. So Tala Rico is actually the fruit of a century-long downgrade and mainline Presbyterianism. Presbyterianism is a denomination that traces its roots to the Protestant Reformation, and so you can look to incredible Scottish reformers like John Knox. You can even look to the reformer John Calvin. But around the turn of the century, so we're talking the 20th century, and the Presbyterian Church in the United States of America, so that was the denomination,

Starting point is 00:50:03 some began to push for doctrinal updates to match modern science and culture. So, for example, in 1923, the New York Presbytery ordained two Union Seminary grads who denied Christ's virgin birth, sparking outrage from other presbyteries. Liberals responded with something called the Auburn Affirmation, which claimed to protect PCUSA unity and liberty and labeling doctrines like virgin birth, atonement, resurrection as non-binding theory. So like secondary or tertiary issues that didn't infringe upon the faithfulness of the gospel. Over 1,200 ministers signed that by 1924. And so this liberalism that we're seeing from people like James Tolarico is not new. And the 1970s debates in the Presbyterian Church in the United States. So that's PCUS.

Starting point is 00:50:54 Increased about biblical authority, the ordination of women, the church's relationship to modern culture. And the conservatives opposed ordination of women. They believed in biblical in And then in 1973, conservatives left the Presbyterian Church of the United States, which would later merge with PCUSA, that other liberal denomination, that is the denomination of Tali Rico. And then the PCUSA has become more and more progressive over time, highlighted in the views that you've seen from Talarico. They affirm the full inclusion of LGBTQ plus people. they have since the 2010s.

Starting point is 00:51:37 Also emphasizes advocacy for the quote-unquote marginalized groups, so-called racial justice, immigration reform, opposition to war, economic equity. These are all euphemisms for communism, basically. The PCUSA is now the largest Presbyterian denomination in the U.S., so it's much bigger than the PCA, which includes churches that are faithful to scripture. But it's in decline. The denomination had about 2.7 million members in 19. but only about $1 million in 2024. So that's a huge decline. And in contrast, the PCA, which is the

Starting point is 00:52:13 second largest U.S. Presbyterian denomination, has seen robust growth, outpacing population increases up 1.84% in 2004. And so what's really interesting is that if you look at all of the main line Protestant denominations that espoused the kind of progressive beliefs that James Tala Rico has, they are all in decline. People are realizing that if you're just going to hear from church all of the same things that you're hearing from social media and your favorite liberal activist, there is no real reason to go to church. You can get community from your friends. You can go to brunch instead of taking communion. You can basically just scroll through TikTok and you can hear what's equivalent to a liberal sermon every day without ever having to leave your

Starting point is 00:52:59 house. And so if you're not getting the truth of the gospel, if you're not getting a faithful exegesis of God's word, if you're not getting true accountability and confession of sin that is supposed to occur in the body of Christ and there's no point in going to church. That's why these mainline denominations are declining. What's interesting is that the popularity and culture of so-called liberal Christianity is increasing. And that is because, again, James Talarico's form of Christianity is the atheist favorite form of Christianity. It is Satan's favorite form of Christianity. Remember, Ephesians too tells us that Satan is the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience among whom we all once walked in

Starting point is 00:53:44 the passions of our flesh. And so that is what is going on. Of course, the culture, the sons of disobedience, the prince of the power of the air, want the popularization of this kind of Christianity because it's not Christianity, because it's not a belief in Christ. It's not a belief in the gospel, and it's sending people to hell. And so again, we as Christians, we've got the responsibility to push back against this with everything we can, both because the policies and in destruction for people's bodies, it ends in economic destruction, it ends in unrest, it ends in chaos, it ends in borderlessness, which is a form of chaos. It is anti-Christ, anti-Bible, anti-order, anti-loving our neighbor in every single way.

Starting point is 00:54:28 It just sounds palatable and that's not enough. It just feels good and that's not enough. But again, also because it is a false gospel that if people believe it will lead them to hell and we have to love our neighbor more than allowing them to believe James Tolerico. Okay. So this is a spiritual battle that we're in far more than it is a political battle. The political battle is up here what we see. The spiritual battle is what we don't see.

Starting point is 00:54:52 But we as Christians who have been given this. insight and this vision by the Holy Spirit to see the spiritual battle that's waging, as Ephesians 6 tells us, we have a responsibility to speak up against this, even if that means you lose friends, even if that means people unfollow you, even if that makes you unpopular, even if you get pushed back, even if that divides. Truth divides. Truth divides. And this is not just about politics. This is about what is true. What is eternally true, not just politically true. All right. We're going to shift gears just a little bit. We've got a new segment for you. And I know that we're going to still try to finish under an hour, maybe right over an hour. But the reason that we're going to shift gears into this lighthearted segment for today is because we have an incredible short little video for you. So I had a vision a couple weeks ago after Hillary Clinton wrote the hip piece on yours truly in the Atlantic. And she said that some of my work has to do with politics.

Starting point is 00:55:55 and theology, I guess. But she said the rest of it is just lifestyle pitter-patter. I still, to this day, have no idea what she's talking about. Because if you follow me, you know that I don't really talk about any of that. I mean, I talk about motherhood. Sometimes we do talk about bread and food and things like that. I guess that's what lifestyle pitter-patter is. And I said, I want to see Hillary Clinton and me cooking and baking together for a lifestyle pitter-patter.

Starting point is 00:56:25 segment. So that's what we're about to do. But before we get into it, before we play you that just amazing video of your girl, Hillard Clinton and me doing lifestyle pitter-patter things together, I got to tell you about our last sponsor. That's my Patriot Supply. This is America's number one preparedness company with over 3 million satisfied customers. Right now when you go to preparewithally.com, their best selling four-week emergency food supply comes with an additional week of food for free. This is the best long-term storable food that you can find. And You're getting at least 2,000 calories a day, real meals made with real ingredients, no artificial flavors or colors, and the shelf life is measured in decades.

Starting point is 00:57:05 You don't want to be in a situation where you need an emergency food supply and you don't have it. So so much better to be safe than sorry. This is a great way to prepare for an emergency, for your family, to protect your family, to provide for your family. Go to prepare withally.com to get your free week of emergency food today. Preparewithally.com. Welcome to our new branded segment, lifestyle pitter-patter. Maybe one day I can actually have Hillary Clinton on the Secretary of State to, I don't know, do a cooking segment or something like that.

Starting point is 00:57:47 I feel like we would have a lot to talk about. But today, unfortunately, she's not here. And so we're going to talk about another form of lifestyle pitter-patter, and that is dating. I'm very concerned about not only Gen Z, but also millennial Christian women and men who seem to be. unable to find their match. Part of that is because of a mismatch in values between Gen Z men and women on dating and kids. The interesting thing, this is according to Vox, is that Gen Z men want kids and Gen Z women have some questions. Fox journalist Anna North found that young men across the political spectrum really want to be dads more than you'd expect. A 2023 Pupil showed that

Starting point is 00:58:33 57% of men aged 18 to 34 said they want children someday compared to only 45% of women, which is a pretty big gap that surprised researchers. This journalist noted that male Trump voters actually rated having children as number one among life priorities, while none of the women, no matter how they voted ranked at that high, women, what is going on? Gin C men often see fatherhood as a capstone or just a really important part of a full life. this article says, on the other hand, many young women express hesitancy because it's never been more costly for women to have a child. I just don't think that's true. Never been more costly, not even in the Great Depression? It wasn't more costly then? Of course. I think it's just because

Starting point is 00:59:18 women have more career opportunities than they have before. And so if you're calculating it that way, that you're missing out on an amount of income because of a marketing career that you could have, then you could say, okay, well, I'm losing out on a million dollars or something, and that was more than someone was losing out in the Great Depression. But it certainly doesn't cost more to have a child. If you are just having a child and focusing on having a child, then it used to. And it certainly doesn't cost more for our bodies or for our health. So women worry that their partners are not going to pull their weight, since even with progress, child care is not 50-50. The truth is that child care, women is not going to be 50-50 because you are the mother.

Starting point is 01:00:00 and your child wants you. Your child needs you more, especially in those early years than the dad is needed. Now, I think a lot of us, millennials, have been extremely blessed with present dads and involved dads. Certainly that is different than generations past

Starting point is 01:00:16 when there were like a baby boomer men who had never changed a diaper, who had never woken up in the middle of the night. And that dynamic, I think, for most millennial women, has shifted. And so you certainly want to find a man, women, who want to step up, who want to step in, who want to be involved, who honor you and want you to rest and want to pitch in as much as they can, who want to use their strength to protect you

Starting point is 01:00:40 and to provide for you and to be there with your child, who loves being a father who you know will be compassionate when you're going through birth and postpartum and all of those things for sure. But don't go into marriage thinking it's going to be this exact 50-50 thing because there are going to be periods of time in your marriage where it's 100% you. And your husband, for whatever reason, he's studying for the L-Sat or he's going through a really hard time at work, he's not going to be as involved as you want him to be. There are going to be times because you're postpartum, you're going through something that your husband is basically doing 100% of everything and you're not able to do other things.

Starting point is 01:01:13 So don't look for someone who is going to do 50-50. Look for someone who's willing to do 100 or 0100 in either direction and who loves you and cherishes you and wants to lead you and to protect you in that way. And no one is perfect and no marriage is perfect. And you learn so many things along the way. But this idea that marriage is some kind of contract where you agree to a perfect 50, 50 percent, that's just not life. And if you see marriage, not as something just like a goal to attain, but something that God has called us to as Christian, something that yes, requires sacrifice, but because of that sanctifies us and makes us better. It also is a lot of fun and also provides you with a lot of love and camaraderie,

Starting point is 01:01:56 then that's better than seeing it as what it seems like a lot of Gen Z women see it as is some kind of transaction. And also just seeing kids in the same way is like something that exists to fulfill you rather than just people made in the image of God that yes, will make you better, but are also just people that you can channel your love into. it's really hard to explain if you don't have kids just how much joy and love your children bring you and they just make you a better person not that people without kids aren't good people but it just does it just makes you more responsible it makes you wiser it makes you smarter it makes you a better manager it makes you more compassionate it makes you more self-controlled

Starting point is 01:02:37 it makes you more patience because you realize that so much of parenting actually requires self-discipline on your part now here's just like one thing that I would say I know we've got disparate values when it comes to men and women. And men can get lots of advice, but not for me. And that's why I target a lot of my advice towards women. But for the Christian women out there, especially who are like, I can't find a man and I can't find a guy that I want to marry, this is what I ask all of my single friends. Like, where are you working out? Where are you going on the weekends? Where are you going on the evenings? What church are you going to? Like, how involved are you in your church? And yes, like, God can do anything through anyone and any place,

Starting point is 01:03:19 but you're probably not going to find your husband at Pierbar. Like, he's probably not at Pilates. He might not be at hot yoga. Like, you might just need to go where the Christian men are. You might need to change churches. If you're not attracted to a guy in skinny jeans and you're going to a church where there's only hipsters, unless it is the only solaceous, unless it is the only solace, church in the area because that's most important, you might want to consider changing churches. Not to say there's anything inherently wrong with skinny jeans objectively necessarily. I'm just saying put yourself in a position where you are around Christian men that you find attractive. And I've encouraged a lot of women to try to find some sort of like Christian

Starting point is 01:04:07 CrossFit gem. That's where I met my husband. It worked out very well. We had that shared hobby and shared values right away. And so that was a great foundation for us. But that is my piece of advice to you. Women, first of all, change how you think about marriage, change how you think about children. Nothing in your career is going to give you fulfillment like those things. And then also, like, go where the Christian men are.

Starting point is 01:04:33 Can I tell a story really fast of my friend who went to a golf store the other day to see if there would be a guy there who would come up and talk to her and ask her on a date? It literally worked. She went to a golf store, walked around, and a guy came up to her, started talking to her, and they went on a couple dates. So I'm just saying, maybe stroll the aisles of Home Depot or Gulf Galaxy or somewhere where you know the men are or academy. I don't know where guys go, honestly.

Starting point is 01:05:02 Go somewhere where the men are and just, I don't know, see what happened. So that's my lifestyle pitter-patter for today. We will be back here on Wednesday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1315 | James Talarico Is More Demonic Than You Think

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