Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1333 | Tucker Carlson & the Pope Embrace Islam. What's Going On?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Trump depicted himself as Jesus healing Uncle Sam on truth social. What exactly did he mean by this? Also, is there an alliance between the Catholic Church and Islam? What is going on with this seeming surge in Catholicism and also the attacks on evangelicals? We are going to analyze all of this and more on today's episode of Relatable. Before we get started, I do have a special announcement. We've got a very special guest in studio on Friday, and that is David French. He has agreed to have a friendly discussion and debate on things like Trump and Christian nationalism, his own cultural, moral and political evolution. It is going to be fiery. It is going to be productive. It is going to be so good to make sure you tune into that. Today's episode is brought to you by Kexie cookies. Y'all, these are the best cookies ever. They taste amazing. Great gift for yourself, for your mom, for Mother's Day, for the loved one in your life. If you go to kexy.com and use code alley, you'll get 15% off. That's a great gift for yourself. That's a great gift for your self. For your mom, for Mother's day. For the loved one in your life. If you go to Kexie. That's a lot. You'll get 15% off. That's It's kexie.com code alley. Hey, y'all, welcome to relatable. Happy Wednesday.

Starting point is 00:01:14 Hope everyone has had a wonderful week so far. If you have not listened to Monday's episode about therapy culture and three of the most popular practices within therapy culture that I think have the ability to deceive and manipulate Christian women, I really encourage you to go back and watch and listen to that. I know there's some controversial things said in there and some of you have left your respectful disagreement and I really appreciate that but maybe it will just plant a seed for you to kind of think through like what is true what is not what is from the new age and what is actually biblical because the things we put in our minds and the things we do with our body really matters

Starting point is 00:01:51 all right y'all we have so much to get to today I'm going to try to not just like talk really fast because I want to get through all of these subjects but I am going to try to move as quickly is possible because everything that I'm talking about is so important. It's so important and things just kept happening day after day, hour after hour over the past few days that I had to add to this document to make sure that we get to all of it. Let's get to Trump's truth social post first. Okay. Trump posted an image to truth social a couple days ago. It was widely reported as him quote portraying himself as Jesus Christ. We've got that picture right there. Okay. Now Trump later responded saying that he didn't intend it to be a picture of Jesus, how one?

Starting point is 00:02:35 Mr. President, did you post that picture of yourself depicted as Jesus Christ? Well, it wasn't a picture. It was me. I did post it, and I thought it was me as a doctor and had to do with Red Cross as a Red Cross worker there, which we support. And only the fake news could come up with that one. So I had, I just heard about it. And I said, how do they come up with that. It's supposed to be me as a doctor, making people better. And I do make people better. I make people a lot better. As an example, the 11,000, I understand your husband's going through a treatment. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. He's going to some very serious cancer treatment. So this goes a long way. Yes, sir. It sure does. All right. So that's his explanation.

Starting point is 00:03:23 Before I even saw that explanation, my original response was, first of all, it was just exasperation. It was the Ben Affleck meme standing outside of some building with, you know, his cigarette to his side with his eyes close. Like, why we're so tired? And that is exactly how I felt as well as sad when I saw this because there is a level of blasphemy and just self-idulatory here that I think is really dangerous for anyone. It speaks to a level of pride. I said, this is what happens when Paula White, who is a prosperity preacher that we've talked about many times, is your personal past. I mean, just over Easter, she was comparing him to the Messiah and literally said to him, no one has paid the price like you've paid the price. We did an episode on that.

Starting point is 00:04:08 I've talked about the danger of that kind of theology, especially when it comes to imbueing that belief in a person. I mean, there are not many people that can overcome that kind of pride. And so my initial belief was that he knew that this was a Messiah-like piece of AI art and that he didn't have a problem with it and he posted it because he is prideful and he's been told by a lot of people in his life that he's basically the Messiah of Western civilization. That is a deep problem. That doesn't absolve him of responsibility because he chose those people in his life, but it does kind of give an explanation for where his theological influence is coming from.

Starting point is 00:04:47 After I saw this clip, I posted this, which I did not expect to be controversial. Okay, I got ratio to the moon. I don't think I've ever gotten. ratio this hard. So I reposted that video of Trump on Fox News and I said, I do believe that he didn't think of this as a depiction of Jesus when posting. Still, there has to be more care and discernment here. I had all kinds of people, all kinds of big names on the left and right being like, you sold your soul. Come on, Allie. I can't believe, you know, you said this and you are paid to say this. None of those accusations are true. Okay. You might even think it's sadder that I said that for free. But I did say it for free. It came from my mind. I have never been given talking

Starting point is 00:05:32 points. I have never repeated talking points that have been given to me. I've never been paid for any kind of political stance or opinion on any kind of political issue or politician. Zero. Not on any of those group tax or any of those email chains or any of those coordination efforts that go on in the political media sphere. I am a part of none of that. Literally, these are my original words from my brain. and I just have to say like I do believe them. I still believe that it is very possible. Let me say that. I think it is very plausible that Trump being who he is.

Starting point is 00:06:08 And you don't have to like this. I don't have to like this. I don't like this. That he saw that image. Someone sent it to him. It was originally posted by a guy named Nick Adams. But then it was like weirdly manipulated and the people in the sky. Like I can't even say this was straight face.

Starting point is 00:06:23 The people in the sky turned. into like weird demon-like creatures. Okay. And like I think it is possible that someone sent this to Trump. It was like, Trump, like, you are the doctor saving America. And he saw it and was like, this is great. And he posted it. And that he actually didn't think of it as a messianic symbol. Now, you might think, well, that's a problem. That's stupid. How can you be so ignorant? All that's fine. Like, you can say all of that. I think it was probably laziness, lack of due diligence. I just don't know that he knows and is familiar with Messiah, iconography and imagery. I don't know that he's super familiar with that. Now, do I think that

Starting point is 00:07:09 he thought he was being represented like as a Red Cross member? No. I mean, that was just like a little bit too far. The Red Cross that's just so random and specific. I do believe possibly that he didn't see himself as Jesus in that image. Sorry. Like, again, I'm not saying that's a good thing. It just is. And by the way, this is not the first time Trump has shared something like this. He shared something like this. I think it was before the election. Wasn't it? It was like, okay, not exactly like him as Jesus, but he was like writing something on a desk and he had Jesus over his shoulder. I mean, this is like Boomer A-I Facebook stop that has been circulated. since like 2016, and it's not the first time Trump has reposted it. It's been wrong every time,

Starting point is 00:08:00 in my opinion. I do think it's strange how some people who have had nothing to say about this blasphemy and idolatry for years suddenly have so much to say about it and are accusing me of being some maga sycophant, which is not true. And I'll get to that in just a second. Let me pause. I'll tell you about our first sponsor first. It is WeHeart Nutrition. I love WeHeart Nutrition. I take their supplements every single day. I switched to WeHeart at the beginning of 2024. I was taking supplements that I thought were great for me, but I was always getting sick. I felt really bad. It felt like I couldn't recover postpartum. I was always getting some kind of cold. And so I switched to WeHeart nutrition. It made all the difference in my immune system, most of all. And also in all

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Starting point is 00:09:31 Some people, some, not all, but some people angry at me in these replies for quote unquote defending Trump, even though I didn't defend Trump and I didn't defend her excuse blasphemy, have only in the last few months left the Trump can do no wrong club, okay? The unconditional sycophancy club. That is a club that I have never been a part of. I have been extremely consistent in my critique of Trump for 10 years. He is better than the Democrat alternative, but he says and does things that I don't like. I wish he would have more self-control, more discernment.

Starting point is 00:10:05 I pray for him to turn to Christ and the wisdom that comes from that to infuse his speech and his actions. I am also very thankful for how the Lord has used him to push policies that are good and right and true that have protected the most vulnerable citizens in this country. I am so thankful for an administration for the most part that can define good and evil the way God defines good and evil. We had an administration that supported and subsidized the butchering of the bodies of gender deceived children. And instead we have an administration who goes along with the science of biology, the morality. The morality when it comes to protecting children, he invites people to the White House, children to the White House who are standing up against this ideology in their schools. under the Biden administration, those kids would have been condemned. All of that stuff really matters to me.

Starting point is 00:10:55 What he's done on immigration really matters to me. And while I have never supported Trump in a primary, I got a lot of hate for that when I supported DeSantis and expressed frustration that other people didn't see that DeSantis was super strong on policy without a lot of the issues that we are dealing with right now with Trump's lack of self-control. So I never supported Trump in a primary. But I am so grateful still that he won. and Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton did not.

Starting point is 00:11:22 I have people being like, oh, you voted for this. I'm like, heck yeah, I did. I did. And if it were Trump versus Kamala Harris today, I do it again. For me, however, on the other side, Trump is not strong enough on life and marriage. I think his selection of Paula White, as I've said many times, is a dangerous error. I've articulated these things over and over again over the years. And that's a big reason why I've never been considered MAGA.

Starting point is 00:11:47 I've never been accepted by the MAGA crowd because, like, I'm not unconditionally maga, even though I voted for him three times and have encouraged a lot of Christian women to do so. It is, it's just interesting that some of those who have only recently renounced their unconditional support of Trump have never actually joined me and opposing Trump on substantive issues like taxpayer-funded IVF. Maybe that'll change now. Maybe they'll see the light. they'll link arms with me and pushing back against the Trump administration on some of those anti-Christian policies. We'll see.

Starting point is 00:12:24 It seems like they're dictated just by a lot of outrage online and not by substantive policy agreements. Again, not everyone, but some. I do think that Trump is Trump and almost 80. And thus that it is possible that he quickly posted a meme. Someone said to him without seeing its clear. to us, Jesus imagery. That doesn't make it right, but his excuse is plausible to me. And I'm not going to apologize for saying that. That's not an excuse. That's not to say, you should love him and be

Starting point is 00:12:57 okay with that. I never said that. People, you know, accuse me of like being paid to post that. It's just not true. I saw like David Harris and Graham Allen both like posted the exact same thing, which apparently David got his inspiration from Graham Allen and then posted what he said about, you know, Trump being a believer, that they believe Trump, that discernment isn't automatic, something like that. And people accuse me of since I said I believe Trump and I said the word discernment that we all got our script from the same place. First of all, I don't think Graham and David got a script that they were said, but I certainly didn't. And like I said, I've never, ever been paid for any, any stance or any position or any tweet that I've ever put out,

Starting point is 00:13:48 not a part of any of those networks. And we shared like two words in a tweet and didn't say the same sentiment at all. So I think people are just looking for something. People just want something to grab onto. And people want something to be outraged about. But as I said, I've been extremely consistent on all of this. Okay, we're going to get into Pope Leo and Trump's battle in just a second so much that I'm interested in coming together for a podcast material. I first want to remind you about Share the Arrows, though. Share the Arrows is happening in just a few months on October 10th. Believe it or not, it's going to be here before we know it. And we have announced our speakers so excited about that. It's Shane and Shane, Rosaria Butterfield,

Starting point is 00:14:37 Kostihan, Alisa Childers, Natasha Crane, Grace Anna Castleberry, Audrey Broke, and. We have one more speaker. That is TBA. Y'all, I'm so excited. This lineup is so good. We are going to be talking about all the hot topics from a biblical perspective. This is no fluff. It is gospel centered.

Starting point is 00:14:55 It is worship filled. I'm so excited about Shane and Shane leading worship. Bring all of your women friends, your small group, the females and your family. Go to share the arrows.com. Get your tickets to share the aeros.com. All right. Let's get into Trump versus Pope. Leo. So Trump took shots at Pope Leo. And this did not come out of nowhere, by the way. Pope Leo has been signaling criticism towards Trump and what he is doing in Iran by saying things like God, you know, he doesn't, I'm paraphrasing, doesn't bless conflict. Peace can't come out of military force. We've responded to those statements by Pope Leo. You can go back and watch those episodes to get my response to it. But since Pope Leo is speaking into the political foreign policy,

Starting point is 00:15:42 realm. He is going to catch the ire. He's going to get a response from political leaders. Trump said this on truth social. He said, Pope Leo is weak on crime, which is just like a funny, a funny line. I mean, he's a pope. He's not a politician. I'm not going to read all of this because it's very long. Terrible for foreign policy. He talks about fear of the Trump administration, but doesn't mention the fear that the Catholic Church and all of their Christian organizations had during COVID when they're arresting priests, ministers, everybody else for holding church services. I don't. I don't know. I don't want a Pope who thinks it's okay for Iran to have a nuclear weapon. I don't want a Pope who thinks it's terrible that America attacked Venezuela, a country that

Starting point is 00:16:19 was sending massive amounts of drugs into the United States and even worse, emptying their prisons. He said, use common sense, stop catering to the radical left. It's hurting him very badly. And more importantly, it's hurting the Catholic Church. Now, I agree with Trump on all of this. I do believe that Pope Leo is just a liberal, that he has the very Obama sense of foreign policy and good and evil. that's why he reserves so far to me, Catholics, so you can correct me if I'm wrong, all of his

Starting point is 00:16:46 ire and his criticism towards Western nations for what they're doing and seems to kind of like tickle the third world countries and second world countries that are systematically killing and torturing Christians. And so it's a very liberal left wing Obama kind of way to view foreign policy and war and the world that we are consistently seeing from Pope Leo. doesn't surprise me. He's a Chicago guy. He probably loves Barack Obama. But the Pope responded. Sot too. I have no fear on the end of the Trump administration, nor are speaking out loudly about the message of the gospel. And that's what I believe. I am called to know what the church is called to do. We're not politicians. We're not looking at a big foreign policy as he calls it with the same perspective that he might understand it.

Starting point is 00:17:37 but I do believe that the mention of the gospel, the lesson of the peacemakers is the message of the war needs to hear. Okay, so evangelicals out there need to pay attention because we got to slow down and we got to define our terms because the most important thing that I think Pope Leo said there, some of that is true. I understand from a Catholic perspective, if you respect and honor the office at the papacy, I understand what he is saying there. However, so important to see that distinction that we'll get into.

Starting point is 00:18:07 a little bit more later probably, when he says the message of the gospel, blessed are the peacemakers. When Catholics and evangelicals or Catholics and Protestants say the word gospel, they're not actually talking about the same thing. And you can ask, you can ask a fellow Catholic in your life, what is the gospel? Like, if you ask an evangelical that we will give you exactly the formula for what the gospel is, but it's not typically the same thing as what a Catholic will say. And so you heard him say, the gospel blessed or the peacemakers, well, that's not the gospel. That is something that Jesus said that is very important, but that is not the gospel. And actually, I'm not sure if I have heard Pope Leo articulate the gospel since he has become Pope.

Starting point is 00:18:48 Again, you can correct me if I'm wrong. I've heard him say a lot of different things. And of course, some Catholic doctrine, but I'm not sure. Has he actually preached the gospel and urged people to be saved as Jesus is the only way to heaven? Then he gets into on X, the communion between Muslims and Christians in Algeria. And he's made comments like this several times, which I think is interesting. He says communion between Christians and Muslims takes shape under the mantle of our Lady of Africa. Here in Algeria, the maternal love of Lala Miriam gathers everyone as children within our rich diversity in our shared aspiration for dignity, love, justice, and peace.

Starting point is 00:19:33 in a world where division and war, so pain and death living in unity and peace is a compelling sign. All right. Here he is. We have at least just a voiceover, a video of Pope visiting the mosque of Algiers, Algeria. He's got his feet, his shoes off as a sign of respect there. Algeria has a long history of violence between Muslims and Catholics with Muslims attacking Catholics. And even right now, there is violence against Christians in Muslim-dominated Algeria. Now you could argue that that's exactly why he's going there to try to promote peace, although I don't believe that Nigeria is a stop in his tour of Africa, where Christians, both Protestants and then Catholics are also being slaughtered by Muslims.

Starting point is 00:20:31 This is a pattern that we see throughout the Middle East, throughout Africa, that I just haven't heard him talk much about when he is decrying violence. And this language of our communion between Christianity and Muslims, it just reminds me of 2 Corinthians 614, where we read, God through Paul says, do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers for what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness or what fellowship has light with darkness. I agree, of course, that peace is better, that we want to live peacefully among people of all different faiths, but this kind of language of our rich diversity as if it is a benefit for Christians and Muslims to live among each other rather than everyone becoming Christian. Christian. That is just, it's, it's not a Christ like our biblical message there. We don't just

Starting point is 00:21:28 want communion with Muslims. Like we are trying to evangelize and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, which is exactly why we can't just have that, okay, live and let live mentality. All right, we've got more to say on this in just a second. Let me pause, tell you about our next sponsor. It's Adele Natural Cosmetics. This is a little. clean, non-toxic makeup and skincare that I have been using for years now. I love Arlene and her family. They're the real deal several years ago. Arlene went through a health crisis and she had to pay close attention to everything she was putting in her body to try to be healthy. And she wasn't just

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Starting point is 00:22:51 go to adele natural cosmetics.com code alley for 25% off your first purchase that's adele natural cosmetics.com code alley also before we get back to it just a reminder to subscribe to blaze tv when you are a blaze subscriber you get access to all kinds of documentaries hard-hitting investigations commentary reporting that you don't get on youtube or on any of our other platforms because this is the kind of stuff that could get us censored and so we want to talk directly and as truthfully to you is as boldly as possible. And this is how we do it. So when you join our subscriber community, you get access to all of that good stuff. Go to blazTV.com slash alley, save $20 with promo code Alley, blazTV.com slash Alley. Okay, there seems to be a weird alliance shaping up

Starting point is 00:23:44 between some who identify as Catholic and Muslims. Like I've seen this by popular accounts on X saying like, these are the people who are like, like, really ally that Muslims love Jesus, we're both for like the traditional way of life, and then you've got the evangelicals and the Jews over there on the other side of things. I mean, it's insane. Now, my Catholic friends who are solid, you know, they're devout Catholics, and they're also saying, they're not saying this. Like, they don't believe this.

Starting point is 00:24:17 So I'm not saying that this is what everyone or even most people within the Catholic Church beliefs. I'm not even saying that this is what the Pope means by what he says. saying, although I don't like the direction he's going that way. But there definitely are some who see this kind of alliance, who start soft peddling Islam and to make us believe that Jews are the source of the problem. And evangelicals who tend to defend the Jewish people or defend Israel, they're the source of all of our problems politically, morally. It's very strange. Tucker Carlson has been one of these people that he has just been very sarcastic when it comes to fears around

Starting point is 00:24:55 Sharia law, for example. He has talked about how Sharia law that dominates different Middle Eastern countries has actually made better societies in some cases than societies that we have here, not completely and totally, but some. And he seems to have kind of changed his tone over the years when it comes to Islam and when it comes to the threat of Islam and when it comes to the threat of the implementation of Sharia law here in the United States. Now, he's not Catholic, but he certainly is someone who has criticized evangelicals as we'll get to. I was kind of shocked. I was kind of shocked. Maybe I shouldn't have been, but kind of shocked when he went like full mask off. The Tucker Carlson Network posted this in light of this whole conversation between Islam and the Pope. The post on X

Starting point is 00:25:46 says, the people in charge, who's that? I don't know. The people in charge don't want you to know this, but Muslims love Jesus. Islam reveres him as a major prophet and messenger of the Lord, believes he performed miracles, and states that he will return to earth to defeat the Antichrist. That's why Donald Trump's painting depicting himself as the son of God offended the president of Iran. It was an attack on his religion, as well as Christianity. And yet here they are reposting it. And so today's morning note newsletter covers that topic, basically. Okay, Muslims love Jesus. My response to this was that, yeah, Muslims love Jesus so much, and they prove that

Starting point is 00:26:36 by routinely slaughtering his followers throughout Africa and the Middle East. That's how much Muslims love Jesus. I've heard this a lot. Specifically from a lot of Trad Calf people that, oh, well, the Jews hate Jesus. the Talmud says that he is burning an excrement or whatever. And Islam regards Jesus as a prophet. And so we have more in common with Islam than we do with Judaism. Well, that's just not true. We share half of our Bible with the Jewish people. Our Savior is Jewish. And Islam, again, routinely slaughters Christians everywhere, almost everywhere, where they become a majority. And I don't really care if Islam believes. that Jesus is a prophet. He is not just a prophet. I don't, I don't care if they believe that he was just a messenger from God. He wasn't just a messenger from God. Jesus is God. Judaism denies that. Islam denies that. Okay. So they're both wrong. It's both, both, both stances are blasphemous.

Starting point is 00:27:42 Both standards are out, or both definitions, rather, are outside of the truth. Okay. So, So, like, I don't know why I'm supposed to believe that Islam has some close alliance with Christianity. Have we seen that throughout history? Do we see that in most Muslim majority countries today? This alliance, this tolerance of Christianity by Muslims in charge, absolutely not. The biggest source of Christian persecution in the world is from Islam, not from Judaism, not even from atheism, although that absolutely happens in places like China in North Korea, but by and large, it's from Muslims, radical Muslims.

Starting point is 00:28:28 You can see what's happening in Nigeria. And again, a lot of these people will pretend that that's not happening, that Christians aren't really being targeted. That is every group that's being targeted. That's not true. It's not true. It's mostly Christians who are being kidnapped and tortured in Nigeria by these Muslims. And as if that makes it better that not only Christians are being targeted,

Starting point is 00:28:48 but also other people are being targeted too by these radical Muslims in charge in Nigeria. Like tell me why the vast majority of designated terrorist groups throughout the world are Islamic. Do we think that's just a coincidence? No, it's because there is something inherent within Islamic ideology that calls for jihad and domination that lends itself to violence and terrorism. So I'm sorry, Tucker Carlson Network. It's not going to work on me. It wouldn't work on any real Christian, by the way, okay, because we read the Bible.

Starting point is 00:29:23 That doesn't mean that we should say, oh, Judaism is fine, and we should unconditionally support Israel. That's not the natural conclusion to that. I don't believe that. However, it also doesn't mean that we engage in this stupid war of like, I'm aligning myself with Muslims against Jews. I mean, that's just literally insane and irrational. I support Israel to an extent for pragmatic reasons. I'm not a dispensationalist, not because I believe that we have to expand the territory of Israel for Jesus to come back. I don't believe that biblically.

Starting point is 00:29:59 I'm an evangelical. I'm not a dispensationalist, so I don't believe all of the things that people like Tucker Carlson say people like me believe. But they're the closest thing to a democracy that we have in the Middle East. they're one of, if not the most tolerant countries of Christians in the Middle East. And the Palestinian people are treated like trash by their own Muslim government because they're barbarians. And so to me, it's like kind of obvious if you have to pick a side, which maybe you don't have to, but if you have to pick a side, like which side pragmatically we should be on. Theology aside.

Starting point is 00:30:39 All right. Speaking of evangelicals and what we believe, there's an attack against evangelicals within all of this. Evangelicals are being cast as part of the big problem of the liberalizing of the West, the liberalizing of the United States. Catholicism, we are told by some, not all Catholics, certainly, but by some is the answer that that is the only way that we are going to get back to the place where we need to be as a country. And evangelicals have allowed the evil Jews to take power. And that is why we are in this whole. mass. And there's a lot of conflation of evangelicals with Zionists that unconditionally support Israel. And it's just a very strange thing. So I want to talk about that trend and then talk about what's actually happening within Catholicism because a lot of people say that everyone's becoming Catholic and that it's a great thing that everyone's becoming Catholic when it's not really true. That's not true. So first we need to define our terms what an evangelical, what an evangelical is and we'll get to that in just a second. Let me pause and tell you about our next sponsor for the

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Starting point is 00:33:15 So that's what we mean when we say Sol of Scripture, that the Bible alone is the ultimate authority. It doesn't mean that we don't have creeds, that we don't have teachings or extra books or theological teachers that we learn from, but that ultimately we go back to the Bible to decide what is true. And evangelical believes that salvation comes by faith alone in Jesus Christ, not by works, not by religious systems. And an evangelical, by definition, submits fully to scripture above culture, above tradition, above human authority. This is according to John McArthur's ministry,

Starting point is 00:33:50 grace to you. Now, evangelical has come to mean all different kinds of things. I would also add to that definition that we are literally evangelical with our faith, that we tell people the gospel, we want people to become Christians, and you would think that that is every form of Christianity and every denomination, but evangelicals are the most evangelical. That's why we have the message of the gospel, the Roman road down pat. That's why we emphasize so much scripture memory. It's why the evangelical upbringing is just so rooted in scripture and church attendance and understanding apologetics and how to share the gospel, how to persuade someone, all of that comes down to wanting to make disciples of all nations, as Jesus told us to do. Now, some people think of evangelical as big

Starting point is 00:34:38 mega churches. Some people think of evangelical as dispensationalist, which have done episodes on dispensationalism. You can go back and listen to or watch those, the belief that history has been broken down into different dispensations, that Israel is still God's chosen people. God has a plan for Israel has to do with the in times and all of that. A lot of people think that that's what evangelicalism is. They think it's prosperity gospel. They think that it's just Paula White. But it's not true. Like you can be a Presbyterian evangelical.

Starting point is 00:35:08 You could be a Lutheran evangelical. You could be a Methodist evangelical. You could be a Baptist evangelical. And within evangelicalism, there are like different forms of theology. I just listed some denominations. But there's also like reformed theology. John McArthur was a reformed Baptist. I consider myself a reformed Baptist.

Starting point is 00:35:27 We've also done episodes on reformed. on reformed theology. But broadly, that is what an evangelical is. We believe in the Bible is the ultimate authority. We believe in evangelism. We believe that Jesus is the only way, the only truth, the only life that no one comes to the Father except through Him. This is why, as we'll get to, evangelicals are so conservative. We're the most conservative on every single issue because of our emphasis on these things, on a literal interpretation of Scripture and going back to Scripture as our authority on everything that is necessary for life and godliness. Evangelicalism is a part of Protestantism. There's Protestant, there's Roman Catholic, there is Eastern Orthodox.

Starting point is 00:36:11 Protestant has different denominations that all we all believe that the other one is Christian. We agree on the fundamentals, but we have secondary and tertiary disagreements. Okay, so Tucker Carlson, he was raised Episcopalian. I think he claims to be Protestant, but he is one of the people who has called Protestantism corrupt, stop four. Protestant Christianity in the United States, leadership, totally corrupt. And not just corrupt on an obvious level like, oh, the preacher's having an affair or they're taking money from whomever. They're shaking down the congregation for, you know, 20% tithes. No, corrupt on the level that matters most, which is spiritually corrupt.

Starting point is 00:36:56 they're not preaching Christianity, not just because of their fealty to Israel, which is bizarre and kind of hard to understand, but on an even deeper level than that, there are many Protestant American church leaders who are preaching a religion that bears no resemblance to Christianity. Okay, well, I've obviously called out the prosperity gospel and lots of people who are within so-called Protestantism, who would call themselves. Protestants or evangelicals who are a lot of people in the charismatic realm who I heavily disagree with who preach a different gospel. I'm not saying all charismatic, but some people within that realm. But to say that all leadership within Protestantism is corrupt, there are so many

Starting point is 00:37:46 pastors within Protestantism that are so solid, that are so good. I would say the vast majority are preaching the true gospel or a large portion. I guess they're just. just a lot of postate churches out there, churches that aren't preaching the true gospel, but to say that all of the leadership there, when we don't even have one concentrated leadership, that is like one characteristic of Protestantism. That's just not true, but this is a line of attack. And then again, conflating Protestants and Protestant leadership with this unconditional support of Israel, again, that does not characterize most of Protestantism. I was raised evangelical. I really do not remember any emphasis on Israel or Zionism or even hearing the word Zionism.

Starting point is 00:38:28 growing up at all. Tucker also had a guest on his show, Nathan Appel, who said that most Christians aren't actually practicing Christianity and actually were just Talmudic Jews, set seven. I would say most Christians, especially dispensationalists or Zionist Christians, are Talmudic Jews wrapped in Christianity. So in Joshua 21, he says, I've given you peace in the land. No one's warring with you. God has given us everything all has come to pass. which means that covenant is fulfilled. Jehovah had given Israel the land. They settled in it.

Starting point is 00:39:06 Okay. There's a lot that we don't have time to get to and that when it comes to the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant and what he believes there, which I think is really bizarre. Believe we can debate that and talk about that later. But him saying that most Christians are Talmudic Jews.

Starting point is 00:39:22 That is a signal against evangelicals. What does that even mean? Anytime I hear a non-Jew reference the Talmud, that's like a little, like my antenna goes up, because never in my entire life, and I've known Jewish people, almost my whole life, had never, have I heard the Talmud referenced. I've never heard Ben Shapiro be like, well, the Talmud says this. I only hear people talk about it when they're criticizing Jewish people or criticizing evangelicals, who I've also never heard referenced the Talmud, which is like a collection of

Starting point is 00:39:53 a millennia of rabbinic teachings that. is not considered, I believe, like an inerrant source of wisdom, the way that we regard scripture to be a source of wisdom. So this weird conflation, evangelicals, Protestant Christians with Jewish people and with so-called Christian Zionists. Christian Zionism is demonized a lot by these people. Zionism is generally described or defined as believing that Israel has a right to their land. There could be various implications of that. But it's seen by Tucker Carlson and others as evil. You've got Calvin Robinson on Acts saying Daily Wire finds a troubling pattern in Catholicism. Catholics cannot be manipulated in the same way as

Starting point is 00:40:40 evangelicals. Catholics are not Zionists. It is in Israel's interest to have Christians believe they must be committed Zionists to receive God's blessing. He posts this article by the Daily Wire that references the Catholic Church not, does not demand that the faithful be committed Zionist to receive God's blessing. Now, as far as I can see in this article, this person is not criticizing this. Actually, Ryan Grudusky is a Catholic himself. And so it doesn't seem like he is criticizing the Catholic Church. I think he's just stating a fact. And so this is a huge reach by Calvin Robinson to say that the Daily Wire is saying that this is a problem. It actually seems like they are trying to get the Catholic, like, representation of their beliefs

Starting point is 00:41:26 on their platform. Also, the Daily Wire basically only employs Catholics right now. Like, most of their hosts are Catholics and don't all agree with Ben Shapiro when it comes to Israel. And so, again, just like a huge reach, just a pot shot at evangelicals there. And then we've got this that happened over the weekend, such a kerfuffle, this person named Sean on Acts, but this this tweet went viral. He said, thanks, Protestants, and he put up four different images. One is the White House that's bathed in like a rainbow flag light, I guess, when Obama or maybe Biden was president, the Hollywood sign. I guess evangelicals founded Hollywood. The third screenshot is like the rise of abortions. The fourth screenshot is only fans. And so the belief is that evangelicals founded all

Starting point is 00:42:19 of these things or have supported all of these things over the years. Of course, that is not true. Evangelicals are still today like the bulwark against the insanity of the left. Every statistic shows this and the idea that it's Catholics that are holding the line when it comes to these issues and evangelicals have brought in liberalism is just a lie. It's just not true. I have a lot of very conservative Catholic friends that I am thankful for when it comes to their belief on life on Ivy on the body, on marriage, and all of those things. But most Catholics do not believe that way. Most evangelicals do.

Starting point is 00:42:57 So let's get into the data, Catholics versus Protestants. And let's try to understand why is it that the most conservative group in America, not just when it comes to Israel, whatever you believe about Israel, but when it comes to immigration, when it comes to abortion, when it comes to gender, when it comes to marriage, when it comes to IVF, when it comes to all of these things, the most conservative, the most biblical group, why are we in the crosshairs? When it comes to people's criticism, when it comes to those who like wish to destroy, why did they have their sights set on us when we presumably agree on all of these really big issues?

Starting point is 00:43:38 Kind of strange. We'll get to that in just a second. Let me tell you about our next sponsor that is Alliance Defending Freedom. So thankful for ADF and everything they're doing fighting on the first. front lines for our First Amendment rights are religious freedom, not just here in America, but abroad. They are making sure also that women and girls have the right to sex exclusive spaces, to locker rooms, to bathrooms, and that we can be protected in that way. They've gone all the way to the Supreme Court defending Title IX, defending our religious liberty, and I'm so

Starting point is 00:44:13 grateful for them, and to ensure that they can continue to do that, that they can continue to protect moms like the one that we had at Share the arrows, Jessica Bates, that she can exercise her Christianity freely and adopt and foster kids. They need our support. If you go to join adf.com slash alley, make your donation today. Whatever you can give is great. It helps. And right now your donation will be doubled. Only while matching funds last. So go to join adf.com slash alley to give and have your gift doubled. Join adf.com slash alley. According to the national Catholic reporter, white evangelicals are the only religious group to overwhelmingly oppose abortion. There's a 2002 survey of more than 11,000 Americans found that 73% of white evangelicals believe that abortion should be illegal. 86% of white evangelicals said that allowing fetuses to have rights is in line with their religious views. This article also says that white evangelicals, are the only religious group that have the majority that believe that life begins at conception.

Starting point is 00:45:30 There's also a Pew Research survey from 2016. So that was 2022. Then 2016 that showed that 76% of white evangelicals see abortion is morally wrong compared to only 51% of Catholics. The Catholic Church still upholds its original teaching. But I think we should ask the question, like if the catechism and if the magisterium of the Catholic Church is supposed to lend. itself to unity? Why are the so-called schismatics, as many Catholics say, the evangelicals so much more united on what is actually biblically true? Why are we more aligned with what the Catholic

Starting point is 00:46:04 Church teaches if our belief system has led to liberalism and has led to all of this dissension and disagreement? Why are we so united on the issue of life and Catholics are not? I think it's a good question. When it comes to IVF and birth control, I am very thankful for official Catholic teaching on this. However, according to Pew, 84% of Catholics believe that the church should allow the use of birth control. 84%. That's a lot. 83% believe it should permit IVF. Wow. And again, Catholic church teaching is clear on this, but again, the mechanisms might not be there to make sure that those who identify as Catholic are actually catechized. And it should be asked, Is Sola scripture actually a better mechanism to make sure that everyone actually knows what God teaches about the body and about human life?

Starting point is 00:46:57 60% of Catholics believe that priests should give blessings to same-sex couples. 50% believe that the church should formally recognize homosexual marriages. And in a 2023-24 survey, Catholics pulled 70% support for a same-sex marriage compared to only 36% of evangelicals. Still too high, but a huge difference there. And then when you have the acceptance of transgenderism, we've got 36% of Catholics believing that the acceptance of transgenderism is positive. They're only 35% believing that it is negative. This is compared to 64% of evangelicals that view transgender acceptance as negative.

Starting point is 00:47:38 Only 18% supporting it. I'm like, who are those 18%? That's crazy. And this is because I think that the Pope typically has been just kind of wishy-washy on these things in some regards. I'm not saying John Paul II. Okay. But in 20203, the previous Pope, Pope Francis said of homosexuality, it's not a crime, but it is a sin. And I think that's a, okay, that's a good thing. However, in 2018, he said to a gay man, God made you like this. And he loves you. Well, God didn't make you sin. But of course, he does love you. And he also famously said in 2013,

Starting point is 00:48:12 who am I to judge when asked about a gay priest? He also hosted. He also hosted. it in 2003, transgender women's lunch. It was the latest gesture the AP says of inclusion from a pope who is made reaching out to the LGBTQ community, hallmark of his papacy. There's nothing wrong with that as long as the motivation is evangelism and a call to repentance. 60% of Catholics polled say that they want the church to be more inclusive, even if that means changing some teachings. And again, I think this kind of goes to, to not the, I think this kind of goes to the issue of how things are taught in the Catholic Church, how things are brought down to the actual lay people. Maybe it's not a problem in all

Starting point is 00:49:03 cases with official Catholic teaching, although I would probably argue that it is. But again, like I would reserve some of your criticism for the dangers of Soloscriptura and the dangers of denominations because, again, evangelicals are so much more. united. So clearly having the Bible is our ultimate authority without a magisterium has led to more understanding of what the Bible says about the body and more agreement about these things. Now what we're going to end on is this question of is Catholicism actually surging. Is Catholicism actually surging? Because we are being made to believe that it is. We're first being made to believe the lie that evangelicals are the source of all of our problems. I'm not saying that Catholics are the

Starting point is 00:49:46 source of all of our problems. I'm saying people who don't know their Bibles and don't abide by their Bibles will certainly lead us usually in a bad direction politically. That is for sure. But first we're being told that everyone, or yeah, that evangelicals are the problem. Then we're being told that everyone is becoming Catholic. So why we're being told this? I'm not exactly sure. I understand from a progressive perspective, why people would want us to stop being evangelical because that means for a lot of people stopping being conservative. But it's a little strange coming from people like Tucker Carlson and others who claim to still be on the right. I just think it's a little weird. But let's look at the numbers. Like, is Catholicism really surging and is Protestantism

Starting point is 00:50:28 dwindling? Is evangelicalism losing its influence? People leaving low church to go to high church. We'll get into the numbers in just a second. Let me tell you about our last sponsor for the day. And that is Good Ranchers. At Good Ranchers, their mission is to bridge the gap between American families and local American farms. They do that by delivering 100% American meat from local farms and ranches straight to your door. And we have been relying on good ranchers for a really long time. Very thankful for them. We love their better than organic chicken that we cook almost every night in our home because our kids love it. We love their steak. We love their ground beef. And it just makes our life so much easier when all of this shows up

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Starting point is 00:51:35 and to celebrate America turning 250. If you go to Good Ranchers.com and use code al. You'll get $25 off your first order, and you'll get free meat with every order too when you subscribe. Go to good ranchers.com code alley. So I saw this article from the Washington Post, and I thought this was so interesting. And I know that my Catholic followers probably won't like this explanation. I'm going to give some caveats.

Starting point is 00:52:04 I just thought it was a fascinating analysis, this opinion. It's in the Washington Post, and this article is titled, Why Catholic converts are surging with an unexpected demographic. Julia Yost writes, The Age of Instagram and TikTok favors Catholic. an earlier era of the internet, that of the blogosphere, was congenial to Protestantism with its biblical and exegetical basis. The result was the young, restless, and reformed movement, mostly male Protestants reading one another's blogs and finding their way from

Starting point is 00:52:32 secret sensitive evangelicalism to high proof Calvinism. Today's internet, by contrast, is image forward and post-literate. This helps to explain why today's online Christians tend to be young, restless, and Roman. She attributes this to the visual aspect of Catholicism. She said white steeples, Puritan clothing, snake handling, not much for an influencer to work with. Also, I don't know any churches that do the snake handling. I know that some charismatic churches do not common within Protestantism. Catholicism has icons and incense, rosaries, chapel, veils, and ashes, priestly black, cardinal red, and papal white, Catholic drip content. downstream of Conclave, the 2024 film, enjoys intense engagement.

Starting point is 00:53:17 An old stereotype has it that Protestantism is for people who read books. In Catholicism is for people who want spectacle. Say hello to Gen Z. I guess we've got, yeah, some videos of Catholic drip contents. Okay. Hadn't heard of this. And it's always like a comparison to evangelicalism. You know, acting like evangelicalism is just like superficial.

Starting point is 00:53:40 I do think, okay, let me say a couple things about this because I know that there are going to be some friends out there who were like, are you saying that there is no substance to Catholicism? And I'm not saying that. I mean, I do think clearly some of these influencers put too much emphasis on the vibe when vibes aren't what saves you. And like vibe isn't a faith. It's not a worldview. But I don't think that's what all Catholic converts are doing. And certainly that's not what I think all Catholic believers believe. I think that there is an appeal to something that is aesthetic and there's nothing wrong with aesthetics. There is something actually true and good and beautiful about beauty. And so I don't think all of that is wrong. And I do believe some people are persuaded by Catholic theology, by church history. And so there are a lot of brilliant Catholic theologians and Catholic apologists, some of whom I call friends and a lot of brilliant Catholic people. So I don't want it to seem like I just think this is superficial. But she is onto something here. She is this writer of the Washington Post is on to something. something than in a world that favors imagery and a world that is fast paced, Catholicism has a better

Starting point is 00:54:47 aesthetic and a better vibe and is more likely to get views and to get attention and to go viral and to draw someone in who is used to that kind of imagery than Protestantism, which is based on argument. It is based on word. It is based on persuasion. It is so true about the young restless reformed movement. I am a product of that. It was a around 2008 to 2010 that I started getting into reformed theology. Didn't even know what Calvinism was, but someone gave me an ESV study Bible and my mind was just blown. And, you know, it really has shaped my theology ever since. But back then, people were reading everything and people were interested in these intellectual theological books and the blogs and the arguments and the conferences and the

Starting point is 00:55:33 speeches and the sermons and podcasts were starting and people were starting to listen to sermons on their iPods, and there was just so much there. We wanted to consume words and to read words. And that's not to say there is no Catholic scholarship, but there is more iconography and more of a visual element in Catholicism. And it is simply true that people read less now. We're not really reading blogs as much. We're skimming tweets. The most part, we're reading less books. People have a shorter attention span. And that does. give Catholicism an advantage. And I think back to the first Reformation. Okay, I know my Catholic friends are not going to like what I'm about to say. But I think back to the Reformation and Martin Luther.

Starting point is 00:56:20 And the reason at the time, the Catholic Church was allowed to be so corrupt and why they were allowed to preach things. Like if you give the church, if you give the Catholic Church money, you can spring your loved one's soul out of purgatory. You can pay indulgences. That was one of the 95 problems that Martin Luther had with what the Catholic Church was doing at the time. The reason that so many Catholics had a wrong view of salvation and a wrong view of Jesus, a wrong view of grace, and this belief that you had to earn your way to heaven is because they were preliterate. Okay, so that was a preliterate society where most people could not read. They didn't have a Bible of their own, and Mass was in Latin. They didn't have any real understanding of what they believed,

Starting point is 00:57:04 aside from what their priests told them. And when you have darkness, When you are pre-enlightenment and pre-literate, you are almost completely dependent upon what someone teaches you. Yes, the Holy Spirit can enlighten you, but gosh, that authority structure that really thrived because so many people were ignorant was part of the problem. And so the fact that the Reformation happened at about the same time, around the same time, as the printing press and literacy rates started skyrocketing around this time and Martin Luther was able to translate the Bible into the common language. I mean, that is God's providence. That is God's sovereignty. That was his grace for the church to say, no, this is the gospel. The fact that all of that

Starting point is 00:57:54 happened around the same time when literacy started taking off is just a miracle that can only be explains by God who wanted his will to be revealed to people on their own through the power of the Holy Spirit through His Word and for them to understand the true gospel, which is that by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone can you be saved. Thank God for the Reformation. Thank God for literacy. But it scares me that we are moving voluntarily into New Dark Ages. We are moving voluntarily into a post-literate society in which people are susceptible, not only to what I believe are some of the false teachings of Catholicism, but the false teachings of all kinds of conspiracy theories, the false teachings of Gnosticism, the false teachings

Starting point is 00:58:35 of all kinds of different false ideologies of idolatrous ideologies in some cases, because we don't read. We don't read our Bibles. We don't read theology. We don't have an attention span or an appetite for those things. And that worries me. That does worry me. Now, thankfully, right now, according to the numbers, by and large, Catholicism is not actually surging, and Protestantism is not actually declining as much as people say. So let me give you my spiel on this based on what the facts say. And I think it's important for us to know this because it's easy for us to just watch social media and think that that trend is growing when it's actually not. So Crisis Magazine is a, it's a Catholic magazine. Okay. So this is from a Catholic perspective.

Starting point is 00:59:28 They note that according to Pew, for every one person joining the Roman Catholic Church, eight people are leaving. This is worsened since 2014 when for every one person that joins six people left. And this has been cited by Catholic sources. Crisis Magazine says no other religion has nearly as bad of a join leave ratio. For every 100 people that become Protestant, 180 leave. That's bad, but it's not Catholic bad. Conversely, for every 100 people who leave their religious nuns in O-N-E-S, a full 590 become a part of the irreligious cohort. Where are the former Catholics going. Of all the former Catholics, 56% become religious nuns and 32% become Protestant. I think we all know, he says from personal experience, that these numbers

Starting point is 01:00:19 ring true. What Catholic doesn't have family members who become Protestant or have stopped practicing any religion, it's just part of being an American Catholic these days. You also have Catholic apologist Trent Horn, whom we've had on several times. He published an insightful video several months ago about this, or I think it was last year, about this trend. He says Protestantism is winning. Of the major religious groups in America, Protestantism is seeing the least decline. And the truth is this is a global reality. There has been a major religious shift toward Protestantism in South America over the past three decades.

Starting point is 01:00:56 A continent that was almost entirely Catholic is now 20% Protestant. More than a third of South American Protestants were raised Catholic before making the switch. The reasons for conversion that they cited were seeking a personal connection with God. God. They wanted a church that helps members now, want a greater emphasis on morality, among others. And there are a lot of Catholics who have analyzed this unarguable shift, noting that the embrace of Marxism and liberation theology by a lot of the Roman Catholic Church in the 19th and the 20th century led to a weakened church, not just in South America, but globally. And I actually think we're seeing some of that Marxism reflected in the current Pope.

Starting point is 01:01:34 And that's just a really good lesson for all of us, whether you're Protestant or Catholic. that the more like the world do you become, the least you are going to attract new members, because why go through all of that trouble just to, you know, learn from church, which you can learn from brunch with your friends on Sunday. It's also because evangelicals are evangelical. And according to Pew in every South American country, self-identifying Protestants are far more likely to share their faith in Catholics. For example, in Peru, 38% of Protestants say they share their faith at least once a week

Starting point is 01:02:05 compared to just 7% of Catholics. And I believe that if Catholics wanted to change this, then they would face this reality. Like, I know that it's very popular on social media right now just to pretend like everyone's becoming Catholic, but the data shows that that is just not true. We read from someone named Ryan Burge. He is the research director at Faith Counts. He says in the 1970s, 8% of Catholics became Protestants, while only 3% of Protestants became Catholics. In the 2020s, 12% of Catholics became Protestants.

Starting point is 01:02:37 while, again, only 3% of Protestants became Catholic. So it's just not likely at all for Catholics to become Protestant or for Protestants to become Catholic. It is kind of likely for Catholics to become Protestant, at least more likely. And we're hearing the opposite story. So what is the motivation for this? What's the motivation to try to compel people away from evangelicalism into Catholicism? You know, I don't know. I don't know. Again, I understand it from a progressive perspective

Starting point is 01:03:13 because, and I know that this is offensive to my Catholic conservative friends, but the more Catholic America becomes, the more liberal she becomes, not the more conservative. Every single statistic shows this. The less evangelical become, the more we become, the more liberal we become. That's just true. And so, I mean, I understand why you would want the country to become more liberal if you're a progressive, I don't understand from some of these self-professing conservative Christians why you would want that. Why this unfair and untrue caricature of evangelicals and this pressuring of evangelicals to believe that what we have isn't real just because it's not high church. I don't know. It's strange. But I would just encourage you. This is what I just encourage you.

Starting point is 01:03:55 You don't have to listen to me. You don't have to listen to anyone. Catholic, Protestant. I just want you to be in the Word of God. I want you to read your Bible. If you've never read your Bible, an ESV study Bible. It's like, I don't know, maybe 15 bucks on Amazon. Start in the book of John, look at the notes, and go forward from there. I don't care if you listen to me as a source of truth, but I want you to go to the Word of God. And if you are an evangelical, that will solidify you in your faith. And you won't be moved just by the superficial imagery that you see on social media or the social contagion that may be happening, but you will be rooted in the word of God. And Catholics, of course, it can't hurt for you.

Starting point is 01:04:33 also to join us at reading the Word of God. I can't hurt anyone. It can only help, right? It can only bring us closer to the God who made us and the Christ who saved us. So that's my encouragement. Just beware. Be very wary of the messaging that we are seeing right now and understand evangelical Christians. You are in the crosshairs. For whatever strange reason, we are in the crosshairs. And it's just time for you to hold strong in what is good and right and true. All right, I know. That was a long episode. And I had more that I could say that's all. we have time for. We will be back with David French, y'all. David French on Friday, he is joining Relatable. It's going to be fun. See you guys then.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1333 | Tucker Carlson & the Pope Embrace Islam. What's Going On?

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