Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1344 | Mexican Cartels’ New Target: Evangelical Christians. Here’s What’s Happening | Ryan Brown

Episode Date: May 8, 2026

Allie is joined by Ryan Brown, the CEO of Open Doors. His organization has a World Watch List that tracks Christian persecution around the globe. Some countries, like Mexico, may shock American Christians, while Syria has gotten gratuitously worse since Assad was deposed. However, Ryan shares the stories of Christians who have overcome unimaginable torments through faith alone and tells viewers how they can support their brothers and sisters in need. Support Christians in Africa: https://www.opendoorsus.org/en-US/getinvolved/arise-africa/ Share the Arrows 2026 is on October 10 in Dallas, Texas! Tickets are on sale now at: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://sharethearrows.com⁠⁠⁠ Share the Arrows is sponsored by: A'del Natural Cosmetics: AdelNaturalCosmetics.com Range Leather: RangeLeather.com/ALLIE We Heart Nutrition: WeHeartNutrition.com Buy Allie's book "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.toxicempathy.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ – Time Codes 0:00 Introduction 3:53 Tracking Christian Persecutions 20:09 Syria 25:53 Yemen 29:30 Africa 33:09 North Korea 38:51 Mexico 46:34 The Middle East & Islamic World 57:42 How to Get Involved – Today's Sponsors: Alliance Defending Freedom | For a limited time, every dollar you give to ADF will be doubled — but only while matching funds remain available. Go to JOINADF.com/ALLIE or text ALLIE to 83848 to have your gift for life matched. Shopify | Sign up for your $1-per-month trial today at shopify.com/allie. Voice of the Martyrs | Visit ⁠VOM.org/ALLIE⁠ to get your free copy of "Hearts of Fire 2" today! Seven Weeks Coffee | Experience the best coffee while supporting the pro-life movement with Seven Weeks Coffee; use code ALLIE at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.sevenweekscoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get up to 25% off your first order, plus your free gift! Pre-Born | To donate, dial #250 and say the keyword “BABY.” Or visit Preborn.com/ALLIE. Episodes You May Like: Who’s Funding the Christian Genocide in Nigeria? | Judd Saul | Ep 1270 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWMloyWeFio&t=600s How to Become the Resistance: Obey | Ep 338 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-LkCaxo240 --- ► Buy Allie's book "You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love": https://alliebethstuckey.com/book ► Subscribe to the podcast: iTunes: https://apple.co/2UVssnP Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2FwkXxj ► Connect with Allie on Social Media: https://twitter.com/conservmillen https://www.instagram.com/alliebstuckey/ https://facebook.com/allieBlazeTV/ ► Relatable merchandise – use promo code ALLIE10 for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

A lot of people think of Mexico as a popular vacation spot. They don't think about it as a hub of persecution of Christianity. And yet evangelical Christians are being persecuted on a daily basis in Mexico. Yet the church there is growing. That is the same story in violent countries like Yemen, like Syria, in North Korea, all throughout Africa. Despite intense persecution, the Church of Jesus is growing. Today, we've got the CEO of Open Doors. is Ryan Brown here, Open Doors as an organization that resources the persecuted church all around the world. And he's going to tell us what is really going on in Mexico, in these other countries. How can we be involved in helping these Christians? This episode is brought to you by Dwell Bible. Dwell Bible is an app that I use to listen to the Bible, to read the Bible. You can do their devotionals. They have one called Worthy Work that's just for moms. That will be a huge encouragement to you. Go to dwellbibble.com.com. Sallie, you'll get 50% off your subscription dwellbibble.com slash alley.

Ryan, thanks so much for joining us. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do? Yeah, my name is Ryan Brown, and I have the privilege of overseeing the team with Open Doors U.S. And for those not familiar with Open Doors, we are a ministry that has its roots dating back 70 years, a gentleman by the name of Brother Andrew, who some of the viewers may be familiar with because it was a book written a number of years ago called God Smuggler, which over 10 million copies of that book in print. But Brother Andrew was a young man from the Netherlands, and he and his friends at Bible College were just perplexed

why they couldn't get people to show up to their meetings. And meanwhile, in Poland, there was going to be a communist youth rally in which there were going to be tens of thousands of young people there. So he traveled there to find out why, what was the attraction? And during his time there, he went off, itinerary a little bit and met members of the church there. And his heart was broken to discover that they did not have access to the Word of God. These were entire congregations of believers where maybe only one person would have access to the scriptures or just part of scriptures. And so

he felt compelled that he needed to respond. And so he began smuggling Bibles into communist countries behind what was referred to as the Iron Curtain at that point. And I gave birth to a ministry that we're now working in about 80 countries around the globe where Christians are most persecuted and discriminated against because of their faith in Jesus. And does he note why people weren't going to his meetings, but the young people were showing up at these communist rallies? Like, what did he learn? Yeah, I don't know that he actually came to a conclusion on that. He did come to a conclusion, though, that the church there in Poland, you know, this, what we commonly refer to as the persecuted.

church that they had something to offer because you know Jesus talks about a pearl of great price about you know people willing to to sacrifice for their faith and what he was experiencing that there was not a lot of sacrifice associated with with that but yet he saw men and women around the globe who are willing at great cost to follow Jesus Christ and so you know there are elements there that you know that which cost us little sometimes means little and so He was inviting people into kinship, into relationship with persecuted believers as a way to even, you know, energize and to spark revival in the European context that he was working in. And what does open doors do today? Yeah.

So, again, coming alongside the persecuted church, and I think the thing that is maybe a little non-intuitive about that is that I think that many of us, when we think of the idea of persecution, the immediate response is, well, the goal should be to end persecution, to stop persecution. The goal should be to, you know, pull people out of persecution that are experiencing that. But that's not necessarily how the Bible frames persecution. You know, the Bible tells us that persecution will come. And when we come alongside our brothers and sisters that are experiencing persecution, they're not necessarily asking that we take their persecution away. They're not asking that they be removed.

What they are asking is that we not forget them in their persecution. that we stand with them, that they not stand alone. They ask that we pray for them. They ask that we continue to resource them and support them so that they can stay rooted as a church in these areas that are so opposed to the message of the gospel, that they can continue to be a light in those areas that are most opposed to the message of the gospel. And so what kind of resources is open doors providing? Yeah, so it can look different because persecution looks different in different contexts.

So in some places, you know, we tend to generally categorize persecution in two different ways. One is this idea of a smash of persecution. Those are the things that I think a lot of us more intuitively gravitate towards when we think of persecution. These are things like people that are murdered or martyred for their faith. Like what's happening in Nigeria. Exactly. This is, you know, church buildings being attacked or bombed or destroyed. But there's also a very real dynamic that we refer to more as a squeeze of.

persecution. And this is a reality when people are denied access to education for their children. They are denied access to employment. It's a reality where life is made untenable for Christians in particular areas because of their faith. And what happens if Christians leave those areas, the church is decimated. So it can have the same impact, you know, whether it's you know, through fear or intimidation seeking to break the back of the church or whether it's through these pressures that make life difficult, both of those things can cause the church to come under threat in different areas. And so the way that Open Door seeks to respond is that the way that the church is asking for support in those particular areas. In, you know, areas where there is the smash of persecution, a lot of that can look like traditional, honestly, relief type aid where, you know, Christians are needing access to food, shelters, many are. living is internally displaced people, like you mentioned in Nigeria. Another big piece is trauma counseling. They're Christians who have experienced atrocities that I think you and I would have a

difficult time even trying to fathom or wrap our mind around. And, you know, men, women, and children have been through these things. And so we're able to provide counseling that, you know, rooted in the gospel, but yet also allows people to go deep and, you know, processing through these things they've experienced. in other areas where it's more the squeeze of persecution, where Christians have been denied access to employment, we're able to offer livelihood programs where Christians can find new vocations

and means to provide for their families. In places where children have been denied access to school, often able to provide educational opportunities or advocate on behalf of those children so that they can get the education that they're entitled to. Okay, quick pause to tell you about Share the Arrows, y'all the share the arrows mother's day sale is happening just for a couple more days if you go to share the arrows dot com and you go to buy tickets it'll take you to ticket master at the top you'll see a

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well over a million dollars to save these babies to help moms make the most life-affirming choice, mold-free, pesticide-free, totally clean, great-tasting. We love seven-weeks coffee in our home. My mom's hooked on seven weeks coffee. It's just a win all around. You can allow your coffee to serve a higher purpose. When you go to seven weeks coffee.com and use code alley, you'll save 10% on your first order. Seven weeks coffee.com code alley. Do you have a story of someone recently so people can kind of like wrap their mind around? Maybe let's do one story of three. the squeeze of persecution, which you're right. I don't think most people are even thinking about that, especially outside of the United States. And then the smash of persecution that Open Doors

has had the opportunity to reach and help, maybe get educational opportunity. So we'll start with someone who maybe was in a country where they're not getting murdered, but they're getting persecuted through exclusion or discrimination. Yeah, I think one of those fairly close to home here, even in Mexico. You know, I live in Arizona, and, you know, Mexico obviously very, very close. And, you know, church youth groups, you know, constantly sending trips to Mexico and those types of things. But yet that the realities of persecution aren't necessarily ones that are routinely talked

about. But there are very, very real dynamics. And so, especially in some of the southern areas, there's a gentleman, pastor, Umberto, that down in these southern areas that he came to faith as an adult. And this is a community. I think when people here Mexico, it can be somewhat confusing because we think of it as a predominantly Christian country, a Catholic country.

Yet in many of these areas, the flavor of Catholicism isn't Catholicism as yours, I might know it. There's a lot of kind of witchcraft, correct? Exactly. A lot of, you know, syncretism as far as taking, you know, ancient, in many cases, Mayan beliefs and honestly just kind of sprinkling some Catholicism on top of it. And so when he came to faith as an adult, his community, they didn't want that. They rejected that. He was, you know, the immediate reaction was they cut off his electricity and they cut off water to his house. You know, he continued in his. faith and a few other families came to faith as well. His children were told that they couldn't, you know, attend the local school. He was eventually thrown into prison on two different occasions as he continued to share his faith. But what, you know, it is so amazing to see is that, you know,

this pastor, you know, he, as coming to faith as an adult, you know, he was, he had lived some rough years. And he said his initial response when he received persecution was, you know, if you're coming swinging at me, I'm going to come back swinging at you. And, you know, he could have pulled it off. He was a tough, tough guy. But as he began to dive into some of the training and we have curriculum that we walk people through as far as, you know, persecution preparedness and began recognizing the teaching of Jesus that you'll love your enemies. Pray for those who persecuted you. He began to realize that his natural response that he needed to keep that in check with his new biblical worldview. And so he began to respond in love, trying to reach out to his neighbors.

And as the community was continuing to try to amp up, you know, ramp up what they were going to do to try to drive him back to his ancestral faith. You know, there was a meeting of the community one night. He was on the outside looking in and, you know, a gentleman raised his hand and said, you know, that Pastor Roberto and, you know, these several others that have come to faith, he said that they're not going to come back. They're not going to abandon their newfound faith, but you know what? They're good neighbors. So let's just leave them alone. Let's just let them be. And so the community decided to do that. And what happened is over a period of time is more and more people began to see, you know, how they were living their lives in this community. More and more of these people that had been persecutors began coming to faith in Christ. More and more until the point where it became. the majority of the community was Christian. Now this community, I was down there for, you know, one of the ways that this church has funded a lot of the work that they are doing is through a bakery. And they're not just working in their own community, but they are actually, they've planted churches in 11 surrounding communities that are also antagonistic towards

the Christian faith. And so we were able to partner with them and they've actually launched a commercial grade bakery now that they're utilizing to fund these, this work that they're doing. But, you know, it's amazing to see as, you know, men and women respond that, you know, even with that that squeeze of persecution, that they can continue to be a light in the dark. Yeah. Now, you know, you asked about the smash of persecution and what that looks like. Yeah. If I could just, if I could say one thing for, you know, my audience here, obviously, here in America, we are so incredibly blessed by a constitution and constitutional rights. But we are always, you know, needing attorneys to fight on behalf of Christians like, you know, Jack Phillips and

Colorado, so many other Christians, First Liberty, Alliance Defending Freedom. They're all people who are trying to defend these freedoms. And even though it's not quite the same as somewhere like Mexico or other of these squeeze countries, I do like want to encourage my audience, yes, of course, to think about the persecuted Christians abroad, but also to realize, like, we have a concept on the show called sharing the arrows, that when you see a fellow Christian who is being condemned, lambasted, excluded for their faith, rather than us saying, okay, you know, I'm so glad that's not me, and now I know not to speak out, now I know not to do that. You stand up and you say, you know what, I also believe that. I believe the same thing. So whatever arrows you're launching

toward me. You, or whatever arrows you're launching toward her, you can launch toward me too. And we encourage prayer, support, helping that person's business. And it sounds a lot like on a much smaller and different scale and an Americanized way. Some of what you're doing. You're not necessarily going down there and, as you said, trying to end all persecution. You are sharing the arrows. You're going down there and you're saying, you're not alone. And let us give you what you need to persist, what you need to stand up. You're not necessarily always a remove. them from the situation. And it sounds like through that, God has given the space that is needed for others to see the light of Christ and to become Christian. That is a really unique and

different perspective that I feel like we don't hear about a lot. But I just wanted to give some, like, you know, more American context for my listeners, that we do a very small form of that. And it sounds like what y'all are doing on a bigger and more tangible scale. Absolutely. Well, I think in that American context, it's, I think in many cases, as we've engaged in the conversation of persecution, it's whether that be, you know, at a macro scale like in Nigeria or even, you know, in a smaller case like we might experience here, there can often be a fear associated with that. Yeah. And this idea that, okay, we need to avoid that. But, you know, what I've heard from so many of our brothers and sisters around the globe is that Christ is present in their persecution.

You know, they are not alone. Christ is with them. And, you know, his Holy Spirit strengthens them in the midst of those things. And so, you know, I was humbled by a gentleman I met from Sudan a little over a year ago. And, you know, this was Sudan, for those not familiar, a country that's just been ripped apart by civil war. This is a country, you know, where Christians can very much experience that the smash of persecution as well. You know, they not only are navigating, you know, the incredible humanitarian crisis that's going on because of multiple years of civil war, but there is also an antagonism

towards specifically for those of a Muslim background faith that have come to faith in Christ, where, you know, people will be, you know, ostracized by their communities, by their families. And that was the story this gentleman that I had the opportunity to meet, he had come to faith as an adult as well and was immediately cut off by his family, was, you know, ostracized by his community as he began to share his newfound faith with his community. He was thrown into prison. And as he was describing that prison experience to me, he said that, you know, at times they kept him in a cell that was so small, he didn't even have enough room to lay down at night, you know, to sleep. He said other times they kept him in a cell that was completely devoid of any of.

light, not just natural sunlight, but as well any type of light bulb or artificial light, was complete in utter darkness as they just sought to break his back. And, you know, I had been studying the, you know, sermon on the mount. And, you know, Jesus says, blessed are the persecuted. And, you know, my definition of blessed isn't necessarily, that didn't really align, you know, the experiences that he was describing as being blessed. And so I asked him about that. And he said that, you know, I would not have, he said, I wouldn't have chosen these experiences, but he said, I am thankful for them. He said, I'm thankful because, you know, when I was in the darkness of that cell, the light of Christ was burning for me brighter in ways than I had ever experienced

before. When I was in that, that cramped, confined, I knew that Christ was there with me. He said, in terms of my faith, he said, I went into prison as a kitten, but I came out as a lion. And, you know, again, the presence of Christ is not devolved. So whether it's, you know, it's, you know, the pressure that we feel from a coworker or things like that that, you know, might ridicule our faith or whether it's a, you know, a Christian in Nigeria that, you know, is rightfully fearful for their life. Christ isn't absent. Yeah. He is present. Next sponsor is a very fitting sponsor.

And that is Voice of the Martyrs. Voice of the Martyrs also exist to help the persecuted church. And they have a resource that you can get right now if you go to VIII. VOM.org slash alley. They've got all kinds of books like hearts on fire, all kinds of resources for you to be able to connect with the stories of Christians around the world who are being persecuted, who are risking everything for their faith. If you want to know more about Voice of the Martyrs, how to get involved, it's very similar,

very similar origin story. They were missionaries and the Nazi world and the communist world where the Bible and Christianity were banned, they pushed through that, and now they have this incredible organization that continues to equip the church. Go to v.com.org slash alley. That's mom.org slash alley. Tell us about Syria, because I noticed on your, you have a world walked list, open doors does, and these are countries where persecution is very heavy, and Syria has gone up in its slots. So why is that? Yeah, it was one of the largest single year jumps that we had seen, and certainly in recent history with that report,

it had been number 18 last year and jumped up to number six. And to unpack that, some may be familiar was there would, the Assad regime had been in power for roughly 50 years or so. And, you know, it was not easy for Christians in those areas. There were certain parts of the country where, you know, Christians, you know, were relatively left alone or things along those lines. there was, you know, certainly for those who had been converted, you know, from a Muslim background, there were hostilities and there were difficulties.

But what happened as the Assad regime was taken out of power in HTS, which is a group that has ties to al-Qaeda and a history there, you know, as they step forward, they have, you know, been very, very vocal in proclaiming their intention for, religious freedom and liberties and for people to worship according to conscience. But in the midst of this regime change, you know, the rule of law was virtually not existent in some places. And yeah, it was very, very difficult. And the extremists have definitely seen that as an opportunity to step into the void there. And so while, you know, some of these historical things have continued to be present, what was the dramatic changer for Syria this last year were the incidences of violence and how that persecution. If we go back a year ago

on the world watch list, no Christians had lost their life that we had record of in Syria that year. This year, there were 27 that were killed because of their faith. Twenty-two of those were killed in a specific church bombing that was just an absolute horrific event. When you take a look at the number of churches that had been destroyed or vandalized or damage, you know, in our previous reporting period, we had recorded four that we could substantiate and verify through our on-the-ground presence. You know, this last year, there were over a hundred of those. And so while all of these realities that, you know, made life difficult and where Christians

were experiencing persecution, you know, continue to be present. We amped on top of that, threw on top of that, unfortunately, an increase in violence. There is the actual risk that comes with violence, you know, itself, but that violence has a psychological impact as well on the church where, or people that had, you know, lived relatively and safely, and suddenly where that relative safety is no longer there. It's taken away. That has a huge impact. As a result, we've seen that church in Syria over the recent years, it has gone from, you know, hundreds of thousands of left to, you know, this last year, we, you know, estimate there's about 300,000 Christians left remaining in Syria. So it has become a

remnant, a small church that remains that has been profoundly impacted by these changes in the regime. And I don't know if you can answer this, because I know that the work that is being done by those who work for open doors can be very dangerous. And so you have to. to have, you know, some privacy in that. But is there anything you can tell us just about how you get into these countries? I imagine it is very difficult. There's a lot of peril that you have to overcome. Or is it just communication with the Christians already in Syria? What does that look like? Yeah. So it's a great question because we are not a traditional missionary sending organization. You know, if people go to our website, they're not going to sign up for the two-week

trip to, you know, go, go visit these places. You know, we have a rich history and a rich legacy of relationships. We talk about presence ministry on the ground. And so, you know, brother Andrew, you know, our founder lived that out that, you know, he sought to be present with folks. And so we come alongside the church that is there with Christians that are there seeking to support them. These are men and women that love their countries, despite the intense persecution that they experience. But these are men and women that are committed and believe that there is a future and that there can be a hope in some of these places that are so opposed to their faith. So when we come alongside, it is, you know, coming alongside those deep

relationships that have been forged over years, those aren't easy to create. Those take time. You know, many time those with nefarious intent will, you know, position themselves as like a new convert to faith to find out who is who and where people are meeting and those types of things. So there are many of these places where we have to exercise extreme caution and extreme care. But it is all birthed out of that fabric and that foundation of relationship and trust that gets built over time. And it's a similar story in Yemen. I think that they're number three on the list. Tell us what's going on there. I know that you're kind of launching a campaign to shine a light on what Christians are enduring in these two countries.

Yeah. So it's really throughout sub-Saharan Africa, the campaign that we're focused on. But Yemen in particular is a country that, you know, unfortunately has been in those top spots in the world watch list for many years. This is a country where there has been, you know, civil war and great instability. You know, you can only have so many years of that before it starts to create humanitarian crisis. And Yemen is in the throes of that right now that there are, you know, it's a dire humanitarian crisis. What's going on in Yemen. The Christians in those contexts, there's an additional vulnerability.

You know, obviously they experience the same hardships that all experience because of the you know, the violence of civil war because of the lack of food, the lack of water, lack of health care. They experience all of those types of things. But in this, you know, area where Christianity, in this case, I'm talking specifically, you know, evangelical Christianity is not, in essence, kind of an authorized religion. It's not a religion that's allowed for people to worship according to their conscience in those areas. you know, these individuals are typically

last in line when it comes to receiving aid, when it comes to receiving support, you know, the powers that be that are, that are, you know, struggling for power, you know, they don't gain favor with the populace by, you know, coming to the aid of Christians. And so, you know, Christians have an incredible vulnerability that all of those in Yemen are experiencing,

but you add the faith component on top of that And it's a difficult, difficult situation for the Christians in Yemen. And so, you know, multiple years where this has been compounding. And, you know, the Christians in Yemen, it is a remnant that continues to persist there. We have a gentleman in so many of these places, you're absolutely right that, you know, because of security, there are times where, you know, I'm telling a story where I can't even identify the name of the country, let alone the individual, you know, for fear of exposing them to greater risk. But we do have a gentleman in Yemen that specifically stood up this last year and said,

no, I want the world to see my face. I want the world to know my name. I'm a gentleman by the name of Aweiss. And he has spoken and recorded videos that we've been able to share with the rest of the world. But what we see happening right now in Yemen, what we see happening in Nigeria, what we see happening in, you know, Sudan. These things are happening throughout sub-Saharan Africa. And what we've seen over multiple years is that, again,

that there can be a squeeze and a smash of persecution in so many of these places, but that the smash has just grown exponentially. The levels of violence that are being experienced continues to mount. And why is that? Do we know? The, you know, as far as, I mean, ultimately, you know, when you go to the Bible, it is sin that, you know, I think there is also a dynamic at play here that, you know, the enemy doesn't oppose that, which is no threat. You know, we could end Christian persecution tomorrow if we just said, let's lay down. this great commission thing to go into all the world and make disciples, we're not going to do that. We're opting out.

If the church were to take that posture, you know, Christian persecution would end. But the fact that the church is not doing that, the fact that church is advancing, there are many miscellologists and many around the world that say that, you know, in coming years, there will be, you know, the greatest number of Christians in the world will be in Africa. The church is advancing in Africa. The church is growing. Is it mostly, I'm just curious, is it mostly evangelical Christianity,

Catholicism, Orthodox? Yeah, so there are all of those threads come into play, but there's great growth in the evangelical church. There are also growth, though, in some of these other areas as well. It can be very, very localized as far as where some of that growth is

and there are areas where the Orthodox Church is continuing to be a, strong and viable presence there. But many would say that the center of Christianity in coming years will be Africa rather than North America where it had historic, you know, over recent years has been or, you know, Europe prior to that, that, you know, that the face and the heart of, you know, the global church is increasingly in Africa. And I don't think that's coincidental as far as why, you know, Africa is seeing so much persecution. Much of that persecution in this area is taken the form of Islamic extremism.

And so, you know, again, these aren't necessarily moderate Muslims. These are the extremists that are seeking to wipe out Christianity, that the growth of Christianity that's seen as a threat, seeking to see those extremist ideologies become a caliphate-type state, where, you know, that becomes the way of life for all on the land. Okay, y'all, I have a challenge for you with this next sponsor. The next sponsor is pre-born. They are a network of clinics across the country that offer free resources to pregnant moms in need.

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use code Alley, you'll get $20 off your subscription, blazTV.com slash Allie. What is the most dangerous country to be a Christian? Yeah, so the, The country that we have placed on the top of our world watch list, and this, you know, we've been publishing this data for about 30 years now. You know, and the country that has been on the top, the majority of those years, has been North Korea. And, you know, this is a country for, you know, those not familiar with the realities there, that, you know, you and your entire family, if you're even found to be in possession of a Bible, you and your entire family are likely going to be thrown into a concentration camp or a work camp

for the rest of your days, never to be heard of, never to be seen again. You know, to be identified as a Christian, to be found as a Christian, is the equivalent of a death sentence in this area. You know, the North Korean government would see, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the state as the highest form of authority that where all allegiance lies. And so for Christians who have a higher authority than the state, Christians are immediately seen as enemies of the state. They're assumed to be enemies of the state or in some cases assumed to be allies of the West that might have different political intentions or things of that nature. So, you know,

Christians in these areas face dire, dire circumstances. is, you know, so North Korea would be the place that we had placed on the top of the list where it is most difficult and most dangerous for a Christian to be. And I read also that executions there for your faith have reportedly increased over the past several years. So even though it has been dangerous for a very long time, it seems like the smash is getting greater there too. Yeah, there, you know, in many cases, you know, these send shockwaves, you know, these very public, executions, very public awareness. And in many cases, if they feel like, okay, it's been a little too long, we need to remind people that we're in charge. We need to remind people what the consequences are. We can see these upticks in these very public types of executions.

Yeah. I read a book several years ago called Nothing to Envy, and it was just a journalist's account of what it's like in North Korea and what it's like for children there. I mean, it's just beyond, I think anything that I can truly comprehend. That book was very disturbing, but I do encourage people to read it and just realize that they're image bearers of God who are enduring this every single day. And in North Korea, who truly have no connection to the outside world at all. And yet the fact that the Holy Spirit is able to intervene and intercede, and that it truly is for the Lord, like an open door, that he can go through whatever door he wants to, That shows the power of God because it's hard to even imagine how it's even possible for someone to know and believe in the gospel.

And for us just to realize that those people who know that they will get executed, they will get thrown into a prison camp, they will be separated from their family. The love of Jesus and the desire for the gospel is so strong there that those people are willing to risk everything for it. And that's not just something that happened 500 years ago or in Nero's time. That's something that's happening right now. Absolutely. And you talk about the heart of these men and women, you know, a couple of things that I think just illustrate that so well is, you know, one of the ways that we support Christians. And we, you know, there are about 400,000 Christians in North Korea. Wow. Incredible. And it is growing. But one of the ways that we support is we are able to broadcast via radio ministries across, you know, messages across the border. And I was. So from South Korea? Yeah, or in China as well, depending upon, you know, the locations.

And, you know, the North Korean Christians, one of the things that they had asked in those broadcasts was to get information on Christians elsewhere in the globe that were experiencing persecution because they wanted to be able to pray for their brothers and sisters. You know, they're on top of the world watch list, but yet they wanted to be praying for others around the globe that were experiencing persecution. There's also, you know, we are able to operate a series of safe houses, not in North Korea, but across the border where, you know, in China, where, you know, individuals are able to come, be nursed back to, you know, physical health. Because as you mentioned, I mean, the reality is for all, for most North Koreans, you know, that there are humanitarian, you know, lack of food and those types of things. And so we're able to, you know, nurse people back to physical health. emotional health, and spiritual health. It has, again, just humbles me to see that there are, you know, men and women that have, in essence, escaped from North Korea, have come to these safe houses, been nursed back to health,

and their goal and their intent in what they have done is to go back to North Korea so they can continue to minister. Rather than, you know, like I think many of us would say, well, gosh, I'm free. I'm out of there. Thank God. they've instead, you know, taking a posture of how can I be equipped so that I can go back and continue to share the gospel with, you know, my friends and neighbors. Are there any countries that you find surprises people here in America when you say, yeah, this country makes it hard to be a Christian? I think all of us, even if we don't know the extent of persecution in North Korea or Yemen or Nigeria, it doesn't surprise us.

Yeah. Because we know communism, secularism, reigns in North Korea, then we know. Islam, rained, sub-Saharan, Africa, in the Middle East. But are there any nations that you wish people new to pray for? Yeah. Because it's just not as, it's not as well known that Christians are persecuted there. Yeah, I think one of those, I mean, honestly, it's Mexico, even, we mentioned a few moments ago. I mean, how many people vacationing in Mexico or go there? But there are realities of persecution there. I mean, there's a couple of drivers of persecution there. One, you know, again, like I mentioned Pastor Umberto and, you know, some of those

traditional faiths, ancestral type faiths, and where, you know, those who come to faith in Christ can be seen as an opposition, and so there can be hostility there. But one of the very, also present realities there are with the cartels and organized crime, because, you know, just simply stated that the Christian church is bad for business, you know, whether it be young men that are not getting drafted into the ranks of the cartel or, you know, folks that are, you know, being pulled away from the vices of, you know, drug use or alcohol that so many of them make their living on, you know, many can see that of these cartel leaders see the Christian church as a threat. And so they will look to, at times, you know, strike with violence.

I met a pastor. This was in northern Mexico, so not far from the border. And he was pastoring congregations where, you know, the cartels had basically come to town and said we're setting up shop. Pastor and men and women of the church, you can step in line. You can grow what we tell you to grow. You can help get things from point A to point B as in when we tell you to do them or you can suffer the consequence. And there was a portion of the church there that said, okay, we acquiesce, we fall in line. We don't think that we can stand against this.

But there was another portion of the church that said, no, we won't go along with it. And to make an example of these folks that the cartels came in one night and with guns ablazing and forced people out with the clothes on their back, they corralled them in a school building. and held them captive there, wouldn't allow them to escape, wanted people to see that, you know, they were being held there. They're, you know, men, women, and child, there was one bucket in the middle of the room to, you know, utilizes the bathroom for a period of 10 days, no water provided. They had to drink water from puddles. And, you know, the cartels are saying, this is what awaits those that stand against us.

you know the the pastor those are the realities that they're having to pastor their congregations through as far as what does that what does that look like and so yeah that's you know I think that that is one that's not

yeah talked about yeah that what is the circle of silence yeah so that is there's an area of about seven eight states that geographically actually form a form a circle. And, you know, Christianity there, well, you know, most of us think of, you know,

Mexico as a Christian or a Catholic nation. This is an area where, you know, those, you know, faith traditions, Christianity and Catholicism, are not heavily represented. You know, represent a very small minority of the population. And so, you know, there is not a strong presence of the church there to, you know, vocalize and to, you know, make that the message of the gospel known. So that's one area of silence. But then again, these forces that come into play that would seek to silence the church that is there, the remnant that is continuing to, you know, to be active and looking to proclaim the gospel, there are, you know, forces. that would seek to silence that, whether it be the cartels or whether it be the traditional, you know, religions in the area.

They want no presence of Christianity there. They want it to be silenced. Next sponsor is Alliance Defending Freedom, fighting on the front lines for our First Amendment rights, the rights of women and girls everywhere. When there is a Christian who is being persecuted for their faith unjustly, unconstitutionally, you can bet Alliance Defending Freedom and their fleet of top-notch attorneys are going to be. be there, defending them, which in turn defends our rights and defends the rights of our children, our children's children, they're going all the way to the Supreme Court, protecting our religious liberty and our freedom of speech. We're celebrating America's 250th year. We love our Constitution. We love our freedoms. This conversation should remind us of that. ADF is making sure that those

freedoms are secure. If you go to join ADF.com slash alley, they just want you to sign up to pray. Will you sign up to pray for our country? To pray for the security of the rights that we have been given in our Constitution. Praise God for them. Join adaf.com slash alley. And I've seen reports of South America and the religious makeup changing. It has been for a very long time predominantly Catholic, kind of similar to Mexico, some syncretism there, some mix in with some voodoo and some witchcraft practices, but there seems to be a movement towards evangelicalism in South America.

Can you talk a little bit more about that? Yeah, I think similar to Africa, there are these places where the church is continuing to grow. You know, the Christian church in many places in South America and South America, that is the case. I mean, historically, people have sent missions, long-term missionaries there for years and Bible colleges and, you know, different types of trainings and things that have, you know, continued to lay foundations for the work that is happening. But I think what all of these mission works desire to see is when that growth is locally owned, when that growth is being, you know, held by believers that are there. and are looking to grow and expand the church. And despite the opposition that many of them face, we see that.

We do see a church that is present, a church that is not just seeking to revel in anonymity or just looking to hide in the shadows, but a church is saying that, no, we're to be a city on a hill. We are image bearers of Christ. We have a light that our darkened communities desperately need. And, you know, there's a lot of debate that I see about how Christians are treated in Israel specifically. Is Israel on the list of nations where Christians are persecuted?

It is not. Israel doesn't make that top 50. I will say that, you know, and this is illustrative of this idea that persecution. never exists in a vacuum, that, you know, there will be, you know, societal factors, there will be geopolitical factors. There will be all of these different things that, you know, get intertwined into that reality. And, you know, there is a church, you know, the Big C Church, you know, in these areas that has felt neglected. It has not necessarily been the type of persecution that we've seen in other places, but there's a church under threat, certainly, in these areas that as the

hostilities, as the instabilities, without being political, there's churches and areas of Gaza that are saying, you know, put your politics aside, you know, we're Christian brothers and sisters, you know, don't, don't leave us neglected. Don't, yeah, don't ignore us. And don't just say, while I'm on the side of this political issue, so I'm going to ignore the plight of Christians in Gaza or in any place, because it really does go beyond that. And our affiliation with them transcends our politics. Absolutely. Absolutely. I have no doubt that even in the times of the early church in the Book of Acts, as they were mobilizing resources from one place to another to support those Christians that were experiencing hunger, I'm sure that there are all sorts of geopolitical things at play.

there too that the church recognize that no those things need to take a second tier of priority not that those things go away or that we completely ignore them because you know we do want to be voices of justice in those areas as well but we we can't allow those as an excuse to ignore yeah that the greater issues totally i've heard reports that muslims in the middle east in africa that there are a number of them i can't say it's a huge number how much it is but turning to Christ. And obviously we know that the penalties, especially for those who leave Islam and become Christian, are very, very high. But is that something that you're seeing that Muslims are becoming Christian in these places? We are. And ironically, it's in some of the areas as well where

we hear about much of the extremists, you know, that, and it's, you know, for those who are more moderate Muslims, you know, as they have been confronted with these ideologies of the extremists, they haven't known what to do with that. That they have, they don't believe it. They don't believe what, you know, the extremists are saying. And so for many of them, that's set them on a path of discovery. And we are hearing and, you know, experiencing many stories. in which folks that have in essence been disillusioned by the extremist ideologies that they're, you know,

hearing around them and are coming to faith in Christ because of that. You know, there was a gentleman that I met a couple years ago now. And, you know, he was, you know, the son of an imam and, you know, a Muslim ruler. and, you know, he was, you know, being trained to, you know, take on mantles of leadership there and was sent to Germany, in essence, is kind of an Islamic missionary to better understand and, you know, to, you know, the enemy. And as he arrived there and began to engage with some of the Christians, he realized that, you know, that the stories I've been told, of who these people are, they're not true.

And he began to question everything. And he spiraled downwards into all sorts of drug abuse, alcohol abuse. And, you know, he said he had hit bottom. And one night he was just praying, he said, you know, God, if you're even real,

you know, show yourself to me. And that night, over a period of a couple of nights, he had a dream. And, you know, this was a dream in which he was, you know, walking down the streets and there was a shopkeeper that, you know, said, hey, come into my shop, come into my shop. And he came into the shop. And the tables were just filled with, you know, gold and jewels and those types of thing. And the shopkeeper

said, take these. These are for you. Take them. And so, you know, he filled up his bags. And the dream, you know, he's walking down the street, you know, so thankful that, you know, he's, I'm rich, I'm rich, I'm rich. and then his roommate woke him up. And he was so disappointed to be back into his everyday life that the next night he had a dream. And he was standing in a throne room. And there was a gentleman that he recognized was the shopkeeper. And in this context, he realized that that person was Jesus. And Jesus said, you know, I'm giving you the riches of the kingdom of heaven.

You know, come to me. And, you know, for those of a Muslim faith, that they don't have the same type of assurance of salvation that we as Christians do. They're the only way to guarantee your salvation is to die in jihad. And so beyond that, it's really this preponderance of your works, you know, as far as, you know, have you earned a right for, you know, eternal glory. And, you know, so he, you know, again, he was living a life of brokenness and debauchery at the time. And as Jesus said, come to me.

He said, I can't. You know, I'm sinful. And he said, you know, Jesus said to him, I forgive you. And he said, he looked down upon himself and he said he can't find the words, but he said, it's like his sin was a physical manifestation on his body that just started to peel away. And, you know, he had his fresh, clean skin underneath it. And so the next day he woke up and said, okay, well, I need to be. to start talking to some of these Christians that I've been, you know, trying to learn from in order

to, you know, know how I can attack them. I need to learn from them. And so he became, you know, a believer. To this day, you know, he was not able to return home because of his faith. It became found. And because of the prominent position that his family had, you know, he came under fire. And, you know, that there have been fatwas that have been issued that basically a calling for his death and execution not just for him but for his wife as well as his newborn son and so um you know the the church is growing in these areas and we are seeing that last sponsor for the day is Shopify okay if you've got a side hustle or maybe it's your main gig and you are selling products maybe you're an artist, you're a business, you're selling merchandise like we do,

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So you can actually get back to doing what you want to do, why you got into the business that you do, whether it's creating, whatever it is, Shopify makes that easier and it makes it easier for you to make money doing what you do. Go to Shopify.com slash alley. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial at Shopify.com slash alley. That's shopify.com slash alley. I've heard a lot of stories about Muslims specifically seeing God and dreams or seeing Jesus in dreams, which is just interesting.

It's not something that we talk a lot about in the evangelical world, especially in my Reformed Baptist tradition. But the truth is that God is going to do what he wants to do and the means that he chooses to draw his sheep to himself. And God can do anything. I do think it's interesting how he seems to manifest himself in certain ways, in certain cultures at certain times and in others. But God's going to do what he has to do to make sure that his sheep here, voice. And that's something that I take away from what you're saying is that, gosh, God is so faithful and relentless that there is nothing that can impede his will. There's nothing that can stop him from gathering his flock. And then also just the common theme that I'm seeing that

Christianity is seen as a boil on the back of tyrants. We are seen as the obstacle to corruption and we are very inconvenient to bad powers and always have been from nero to today yes Jesus himself um and that even you know inspired that's the pattern it's like christians speak truth they kill us the church grows speak truth kill church grows and you would think that you know eventually we would be extinguished but the gates of hell can't prevail against it we see that every day we do and it's you know perhaps it's a beautiful irony that you know the things that this world would most seek to do to destroy the church it would most seek you know to destroy a faith in Christ you know Christ not only is he present in those things but even those things bend their

knee to Christ and his purposes you know gosh you know death itself was sins crowning achievement, you know, but yet God utilized the death of his son to create atonement for all of us. So not even the crowning achievement of sin, you know, even that has to bow its knee before the Lordship of Christ. And none of that is true without the resurrection. Amen. The resurrection is where we find hope in the midst of persecution and martyrdom because if Jesus conquered death and he gives us the authority to do so, then we know that we get to be with him forever, and one day every knee will bow,

and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Tell me just the immediate action step that someone can take. They're listening to this, and they're like, okay, I want to get involved. What can they do? How can they get involved in open doors? Yeah. One of the first things I would point people to right now is we have launched, and this is not just open doors that has launched this.

This is in response to the pastors on the ground that we have the privilege of working with in Africa. One of the things that they vocalized to us a few years ago is that, you know, the persecution that we are experiencing, we feel like the world doesn't know. We feel like the world is unaware. You know, I spent some time this last year with a pastor who is from Nigeria, who spent the last 15 years of his life trying to tell the broader world about, the realities of what is going on just to be, you know, routinely dismissed and, you know, people doubting the word that he says. And so, you know, what our brothers and sisters have said is that they feel alone, that they feel like, you know, that it's one thing for politicians

to ignore and to turn away. It's another thing for their brothers and sisters in Christ to be unaware or to turn their eye. And so we have, in partnership with pastors throughout the continent of Africa have launched an arise Africa initiative in which we've collected a little over 500,000 signatures right now. Our goal is by November to collect a million signatures. And there's really kind of two, you know, goals from this initiative. One of those is that we will take this petition to the UN, to the European Union, to the African Union, as well as, you know, within our own state department, you know, relationships there to let people know that this is important, that there are, you know, men and women around the globe that are aware of what's going on in Africa and what we

don't want to be silent. We want to share the arrows with our brothers and sisters. You know, that is one goal of that petition to say that, you know, I stand in solidarity and, you know, to raise that awareness to elected officials and calling them to be able to be a lot of aware of this, you know, that more broadly defined freedom of religious belief as it relates to policy of state, as it relates to international aid and those types of things. But beyond that, and I would say even more important, what this petition seeks to do is it allows the church in Africa to know, but we're not forgotten. It allows the church in Africa to know that there are, you know, our hope is to, you know, a million brothers and sisters that are saying,

we're aware and we're standing with you, we're going to lift you up in prayer. We're going to stand with you in that. Again, the thing that our brothers and sisters most ask for, not to end their persecution, not to pull them out from persecution, but to pray, to pray and be present with them in that. So that would be a very practical step that anybody can take is just to go online and to sign that petition and say, yeah, I'll let my voice and in my name be counted. Yeah. Well, we'll put the link in the description of this episode so people can easily find it.

And of course, joining in prayer. And, you know, it's easy to be focused on what's right in front of us. And God cares about those things too. Absolutely. He cares about what happens here in the United States too. But, you know, Jesus says, whatever you do for the least of these, my brothers, fellow Christians, you do unto me. God really cares. And when we're instructed not to forget those in prison, yes, it's important to remember everyone in prison.

specifically that passage is talking about Christians, Christians around the world who are being persecuted. So this is really important to God that we don't forget about these vulnerable people and our prayers and our resourcing. So thank you so much for what you do. And thank you for joining us today. Oh, yeah, absolutely. No, it's a privilege to do so. And I've seen time and time again that, you know, so many times we can create this dichotomy of there and here. But Christ has one church.

We're all part of one church around the globe. And there is something beautiful that happens when we all come to the table together collectively. Our brothers and sisters, I think one of the greatest ways to spark revival at a church here in the United States is to actually engage with the persecuted around the globe. There are stories of faith and conviction and courage that just inspire us to take our own faith seriously, to be willing to act on that and to see, you know is my faith the pearl of great price is it something that i am really truly willing to pursue above all else amen well thank you so much thank you